[12:13] <mpt> Who works on kickstart?
[12:14] <pygi> jdong: so everything working fine? :)
[12:14] <jdong> pygi: well , with one test project yes
[12:14] <jdong> I'm still testing
[12:14] <pygi> jdong: bleh, who needs testing ^_^
[12:14] <jdong> but I'll let it thru backports since you seem so confident :)
[12:15] <neuralis> mpt: kamion, i imagine
[12:16] <pygi> jdong: ^_^
[12:16] <mpt> ta neuralis 
[12:26] <HrdwrBoB> probably because the system administrator has disabled access to the system temporarily :)
[12:26] <HrdwrBoB> /etc/nologin?
[12:26] <Mithrandir> lamont_: /etc/nologin?
[12:27] <HrdwrBoB> snap
[12:27] <lamont_> no such file
[12:27] <lamont_> HrdwreBoB: I most certainly did not (intentionally) disable access
[12:27] <lamont_> then again, I was silly enough to upgrade to edgy
[12:29] <twb> Good day.  I build modified live cds, and I'm migrating from Knoppix to Ubuntu as a base.  Where is the code on the etch livecd that sets up dhcp ethernet?  Somehow I'm losing it when I modify the image.
[12:29] <lamont_> ah... it's all fallout from ldap going completely belly up
[12:34] <twb> Hmm, never mind.
[12:34] <twb> Ethernet is working again in my modified CD; perhaps I was just being impatient before.
[12:42] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: pppoeconf? I also filed a bug for that, #72370
[12:44] <lamont> Mithrandir: ldap in nsswitch.conf seems to be bustificated in edgy.
[12:47] <lamont> how very bizare...
[12:47] <lamont> getent works, but finger doesn't....
[12:47] <Burgwork> lamont: yes, and that is a bad thing
[12:48] <Burgwork> means I need to keep a feisty client to test, so this sort of thing doesn't happen again
[12:51] <lamont> Burgwork: and more to the point, logging in doesn't...
[12:52] <Burgwork> how something like snuck through, I have no idea
[12:53] <lamont> Burgwork: I care about that for fiesty.... But for the moment, I just want to fix it so that I can upgrade the rest of the house to edgy...
[12:53] <Burgwork> you run an ldap server just for your house
[12:53] <Burgwork> ?
[12:54] <LaserJock> Burgwork: maybe he has a large house :-)
[12:55] <_ion> Since when is it wrong to use a ldap server for a small number of computers? :-)
[12:56] <lifeless> infinity: around ?
[12:58] <stewski> does the server contain a fridge ou?
[12:58] <lamont> Burgwork: sure.  why wouldn't I?
[12:58] <lamont> beats creating logins everywhere
[12:58] <Burgwork> sure, if it is easy enough to setup
[12:58] <lamont> Burgwork: trivial
[12:58] <lamont> once you know how...
[12:59] <dsas> and probably fun when learning how...for some definitions of fun.
[12:59] <lamont> dsas: it wasn't too bad...
[12:59] <keescook> lamont: got a few minutes to write up some docs?  I pulled my hair out this morning just getting a viable test server running to do security update tests.  :P
[12:59] <lamont> keescook: well, step one is getting edgy to work
[12:59] <keescook> lamont: heh.
[12:59] <stewski> anyone seen how samba is getting on with Active Directory import?
[01:00] <stewski> I was of the impression they were after in place import and replacement of domain controller functionality?
[01:01] <ajmitch> lamont: yeah, libnss-ldap needs put into edgy-updates
[01:01] <ajmitch> lamont: assuming it's the timeout issue for boot that you've struck
[01:02] <lamont> ajmitch: I had timeouts... but the other part was that the login process can't find any users...
[01:02] <lamont> iz this fixed already somewhere?
[01:05] <ajmitch> er, I haven't come across that one, nor has it been reported
[01:06] <ajmitch> gdm has some issues if you don't restart it
[01:06] <ajmitch> but console logins have been fine in my experience
[01:06] <Burgwork> gdm is pretty flaky
[01:07] <lamont> pam_access.so might be the culprit in part
[01:07] <ajmitch> sid's one has fixes for timeouts
[01:08] <lamont> I can't help but think that maybe it's trying to use SASL where I don't support it...
[01:09] <ajmitch> you said that getent worked though?
[01:10] <lamont> Restarting Name Service Cache Daemon: nscd/usr/sbin/nscd: option `--invalidate' requires an argument
[01:10] <lamont> ajmitch: yep
[01:11] <ajmitch> edgy living up to its name
[01:13] <lamont> nscd was changed to require a table (passwd, group, hosts), instead of letting --invalidate do all of them.  or so it would seem
[01:19] <lamont> so...  libnss-ldap 238-1.1ubuntu1 works (dapper), and 251-5.2 and -7 don't
[01:20] <ajmitch> -7 doesn't? that's a worry
[01:20] <lamont> ajmitch: in my configuration
[01:20] <lamont> now to figure out what's so different
[01:21] <lamont> sigh.  high touch differences
[01:28] <_ion> Wow. Feisty was smart enough to inform that "The Wireless mouse device attached to this computer is low in power (14%). This device will soon stop functioning if not charged."
[01:31] <Burgwork> _ion: that is gnome-power-manager in action
[01:34] <_ion> I'm not sure whether HAL reported the mouse charge level in Edgy. 
[01:36] <lamont> Burgwork: I'll try 253 just for giggles
[01:40] <MacSlow> Gman, hi Glynn
[01:40] <Gman> hey MacSlow 
[01:41] <lamont> Burgwork: fixed in 253
[01:41] <MacSlow> Gman, I might run into you (via email) regarding some hints I got from Paul Byrne when I met  him at the ubuntu developer summit
[01:42] <lamont> 253     Luke Howard <lukeh@padl.com>
[01:42] <lamont>         * fix crasher if an empty buffer is passed to
[01:42] <lamont>           initgroups (glibc NSS only)
[01:42] <Burgwork> lamont: excellent
[01:42] <lamont> Burgwork: I bet that's it...
[01:42] <Gman> MacSlow, ok cool, i know paul well
[01:42] <ajmitch> afternoon Gman 
[01:42] <MacSlow> re jdub 
[01:42] <lamont> morning jdub
[01:42] <ajmitch> lamont: thanks, hopefully the same behaviour can be seen in debian so it can be forced through there
[01:42] <MacSlow> Gman, good to know
[01:43] <Gman> hi ajmitch 
[01:44] <keescook> mdz told me last week there may be a TB meeting on tuesday, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere.  anyone else heard anything?
[01:59] <Mez> minghua, ping regarding your gpg key
[02:01] <minghua> Mez: pong.  what's wrong with my key?
[02:01] <Mez> I dont know - but I'm getting a "BAD signature"
[02:02] <minghua> uh-oh.
[02:02] <minghua> which file did you get the bad sig?
[02:03] <Mez> your brasero upload - the email
[02:03] <ajmitch> Mez: that's not unusual
[02:03] <ajmitch> if launchpad has accepted it, the signature was fine
[02:03] <Mez> ah, kk
[02:04] <minghua> yeah, most likely some line break stuff
[02:08] <lifeless> infinity: so, icheck is not able to be automatically used - it needs to much hooking-in.
[04:23] <KnowledgEngi> hello
[04:23] <KnowledgEngi> in this channel there is somebody that work in the ubuntu comunity???
[04:24] <KnowledgEngi> somebody that is a ubuntu developer
[04:24] <KnowledgEngi> becouse using synaptic is not possible to install a Low-Latency kernel
[04:25] <KnowledgEngi> and midi softwares like rosegarden need a Low-Latency kernel
[04:29] <sladen> KnowledgEngi: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+filebug
[04:30] <sladen> KnowledgEngi: could you include information about what would need to be done---eg. the URL of patches, configuration options or GIT trees to apply
[04:30] <sladen> KnowledgEngi: I believe that low latency patches are already in.
[04:32] <crimsun> KnowledgEngi: it's addressed already in feisty
[04:32] <KnowledgEngi> but i do not know if low-latency is sufficent 
[04:32] <KnowledgEngi> is possible that rosegarden need particular kernel configuration
[04:32] <crimsun> KnowledgEngi: it's much too invasive for breezy, dapper, and edgy
[04:35] <KnowledgEngi> i have not other chanse
[04:35] <KnowledgEngi> rosegarden need a particular kernel
[04:35] <KnowledgEngi> and return me error about kernel
[04:35] <crimsun> since when has rosegarden required a specific kernel?
[04:37] <KnowledgEngi> The resolution of the timer of system is too much low Rosegarden has not found one source of the timer to high resolution for reproduction MIDI. This could mean that a Linux with one is being used kernel resolution of the timer too much low. It contacts your Linux distributor for having more information.
[04:38] <KnowledgEngi> the translation italian-english is not perfect
[04:38] <KnowledgEngi> becouse i used google translator
[04:40] <KnowledgEngi> if you try to install rosegarden4 using synaptic and run it
[04:40] <KnowledgEngi> you can see the error
[04:40] <KnowledgEngi> in english
[04:40] <KnowledgEngi> but my ubuntu is setted with italian language
[04:41] <KnowledgEngi> i asked in the channel #rosegarden but nobody give me an answare
[04:49] <KnowledgEngi> stupid midi
[04:49] <KnowledgEngi> ufff
[04:55] <KnowledgEngi> someone use rosegarden under ubuntu ???
[04:58] <crimsun> please redirect to #ubuntustudio or #ubuntu
[05:24] <fabbione> morning
[06:10] <fabbione> ajmitch: ping?
[06:39] <ajmitch> fabbione: pong
[06:39] <fabbione> ajmitch: mdadm is fixed now.
[06:39] <ajmitch> ok, thanks
[06:39] <fabbione> ajmitch: if you can distupgrade you should be able to reboot just fine
[06:39] <fabbione> ajmitch: you want to make sure to upgrade also lvm-common
[06:39] <fabbione> and please let me know if it's still an issue
[06:39] <jdong> what is the command to get a list of locally installed packages?
[06:39] <ajmitch> upgraded them both earlier
[06:40] <jdong> sort of like what synaptic shows under its locally installed / obsolete list
[06:40] <fabbione> jdong: dpkg --get-selections *
[06:40] <fabbione> ah locally?
[06:40] <fabbione> no
[06:40] <jdong> fabbione: that wouldn't work :D
[06:40] <fabbione> that's the full list
[06:40] <jdong> right
[06:40] <fabbione> ajmitch: ok
[06:40] <fabbione> ajmitch: did mdadm upgrade smoothly?
[06:40] <ajmitch> I believe so
[06:47] <jdong> any other suggestions? :)
[06:56] <cjwatson> jdong: sudo apt-get install grep-dctrl moreutils; sudo dselect update; combine <(grep-dctrl -nsPackage -FStatus ' installed' /var/lib/dpkg/status) not <(grep-dctrl -nsPackage '' /var/lib/dpkg/available)
[06:57] <cjwatson> requires bash; dselect update is required to get /var/lib/dpkg/available up to date
[06:57] <jdong> cjwatson: thanks, now let me digest that :D
[06:57] <cjwatson> actually you can get rid of the dselect update if you use this instead:
[06:57] <cjwatson> combine <(grep-dctrl -nsPackage -FStatus ' installed' /var/lib/dpkg/status) not <(apt-cache dumpavail | grep-dctrl -nsPackage '')
[06:58] <jdong> ah, so look in dpkg/status for packages not in apt-cache dumpavail
[06:58] <jdong> makes sense
[06:59] <cjwatson> correct
[07:00] <jdong> `dpkg --get-selections | awk '$2 == "install" { print $1 }` would be identical to the first grep-dctrl call, right?
[07:00] <infinity> No.
[07:00] <infinity> selections don't mean something's installed.
[07:01] <cjwatson> selections => desired state not actual state
[07:01] <jdong> ok
[07:01] <jdong> good point
[07:01] <infinity> But "dpkg -l \* | grep ^i | awk '{print $2}'" works.
[07:01] <jdong> haven't considered that
[07:01] <jdong> infinity: I think I'll choose the pretty looking grep-dctrl call :D
[07:02] <cjwatson> that grep-dctrl is technically a layering violation since /var/lib/dpkg/status is an implementation detail of dpkg, but ...
[07:02] <jdong> meh, it works, I don't complain :)
[07:04] <cjwatson> dpkg-query -W -f '${Package} ${Status}\n' | grep ' installed$' | cut -d' ' -f1
[07:04] <cjwatson> ^-- bit neater I suppose
[07:04] <infinity> I like mine better. :)
[07:04] <jdong> ooh
[07:04] <infinity> Less typing.
[07:04] <jdong> lol
[07:05] <cjwatson> infinity: I wasn't certain if it would deal correctly with very long package names
[07:05] <cjwatson> looks like it probably does
[07:05] <infinity> cjwatson: It does, because when dpkg-query output is sent to stdout, it exapnds the columns.
[07:05] <cjwatson> ah yes
[07:05] <infinity> Err, sent to stdin of another process.
[07:05] <infinity> Whatever.
[07:05] <infinity> Piped.  Brain.  Explode.
[07:05] <infinity> I should have booked a week of VAC after the conferences.
[07:06] <cjwatson> We should put moreutils in main. It's neat.
[07:06] <keescook> infinity: any brain power available for the security LP uploads?  I've got people wondering why only edgy's update exists.  :)
[07:06] <infinity> Isn't sponge one of yours?
[07:06] <infinity> Or was that a joeyism?
[07:07] <cjwatson> infinity: the concept was originally mine, although I believe it was rewritten, possibly by Tolef
[07:07] <infinity> keescook: I'm working on it, drescher's dying from I/O contention, so I'm working on it rather slowly.
[07:07] <cjwatson> er, Tollef
[07:07] <jdong> wait a sec
[07:07] <jdong> would that work if a local package is a newer version of a repository package?
[07:07] <infinity> cjwatson: pee is cute.
[07:07] <keescook> infinity: okay, cool.  is there anything you need from me, or do you see all the files you need?
[07:07] <infinity> keescook: I should have everything I need.
[07:07] <cjwatson> vipe is rather neat too
[07:09] <cjwatson> though somebody without their brain screwed in made sponge able to output to stdout, which is just SILLY
[07:09] <zakame> somebody pinged me?
[07:09] <cjwatson> jdong: synaptic won't display that as obsolete/local either ...
[07:09] <minghua> yay for moreutils in main.  I use isutf8
[07:09] <keescook> infinity: okay, great.  I'm off to bed.
[07:10] <jdong> cjwatson: really? I never noticed that
[07:10] <cjwatson> jdong: (at least, dselect never has, and I assume synaptic uses roughly the same algorithm)
[07:10] <jdong> cjwatson: oh but synaptic does :)
[07:11] <cjwatson> well, that's much harder then. :)
[07:11] <jdong> cjwatson: yeah, I got that much :)
[07:11] <fabbione> cjwatson: when do you think you can merge lsb?
[07:12] <cjwatson> fabbione: I'll do it later today
[07:12] <cjwatson> didn't know it was urgent
[07:12] <fabbione> cjwatson: that'd be great thanks.
[07:12] <fabbione> no it's not urgent but i am fighting an issue in an init script where something in lsb is returning 1 on ubuntu but 0 on debian
[07:12] <fabbione> and i can't exactly figure what it is
[07:13] <fabbione> so i was hoping that a merge would fix that
[07:13] <cjwatson> tell me what the init script is and I'll check it out when I do the merge
[07:13] <cjwatson> it could just as easily be our usplash changes or similar
[07:13] <fabbione> it's mdadm-raid but there is a workaround in place atm
[07:13] <fabbione> oh might be yeah
[07:14] <jdong> cjwatson: would it be a fair assumption that packages in main all end in ubuntu<number.number>
[07:14] <infinity> There was just an LSB upload in Debian that fixed some return codes.
[07:14] <cjwatson> jdong: no
[07:14] <infinity> I saw it fly by on my buildd a day or three ago.
[07:14] <cjwatson> jdong: "ubuntu" in a version number implies that we've locally modified it; no more, no less.
[07:14] <fabbione> i can't find what provides log_to_console
[07:14] <fabbione> that seems to be the culprit
[07:15] <fabbione> infinity: yes i did try lsb from debian but it doesn't really help
[07:15] <infinity>    * log_use_fancy_output() had unintended behavior under set -e.
[07:15] <infinity>      (Thanks to Steve Langesek for the heads-up.)
[07:15] <fabbione> infinity: but ya know.. mixing != not good
[07:15] <cjwatson> fabbione: I'll check it out later.
[07:15] <fabbione> infinity: already tested that
[07:15] <jdong> infinity: speaking of buildd's, can you make it that -backports builds against -updates?
[07:15] <cjwatson> fabbione: (I know where all the pieces live)
[07:15] <infinity> fabbione: mdadm has a bunch of its own logging functions, doesn't it?
[07:15] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok thanks, just bear in mind that our mdadm-raid will work (workaround in place) you will need the one from debian
[07:15] <fabbione> infinity: only small wrappers. they are ok tho
[07:15] <cjwatson> I'm capable of spotting workarounds
[07:16] <fabbione> cjwatson: i am 100% confident in your God alike skillz.. otherwise i wouldn't have asked ;)
[07:16] <infinity> jdong: Yeah, I can.  Can you mail that request to me?
[07:16] <infinity> jdong: I can't do it RIGHT NOW, so a reminder would be good. :)
[07:16] <jdong> infinity: will do :)
[07:18] <cjwatson> -              log_problem "no $*"
[07:18] <cjwatson> +              log_dev 0 $1 "no $*"
[07:18] <cjwatson> I assume that's the workaround
[07:18] <fabbione> yeps
[07:18] <fabbione> log_problem is a wrapper in mdadm-raid
[07:18] <fabbione> so is log_dev
[07:24] <cjwatson> fabbione: yeah, it's just a bug in our lsb-base-logging.sh; I'll go through it all and make sure it's consistent
[07:24] <cjwatson> but first, an hour or two more of sleep ...
[07:38] <bluefoxicy> pitti's repo doesn't seem to have libfreetype dbgsyms
[07:40] <infinity> bluefoxicy: One would assume that it hasn't been uploaded since we turned on that feature, then.
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> infinity: it's got one of the most CPU-active pieces of code in it, apparently.
[07:41] <bluefoxicy> somewhere around fifth on my list (only watching gaim, thunderbird, firefox,rhythmbox though)
[07:42] <bluefoxicy> 00000000 40442     2.2060  (no location information)   libfreetype.so.6.3.10    gaim                     (no symbols)
[07:42] <bluefoxicy> ^^^ I'd like to know what symbol that is :P
[07:43] <infinity> Rebuilding it should do. :)
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> I'll pass.  I can wait a few weeks.
[07:43] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  I made strlen() 4 times faster
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> apparently glibc contains an optimized one that deals in 4 byte words at a time instead of byte by byte
[07:44] <bluefoxicy> and tries to use some funky analysis to find the null bytes
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> for a 5 byte string it's 6 seconds for a naive algorithm vs 12 seconds for glibc's to do 10 iterations of 1,000,000,000 strlen() calls
[07:45] <bluefoxicy> err, not 6 seconds, 1.75 seconds.. hang on.
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> infinity:  http://rafb.net/paste/results/ojJGja70.html  Like that :>
[07:46] <bluefoxicy> why am I even talking about this.
[07:47] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/6JMwu456.html  my_strlen() is glibc, n_strlen() is naive, for anyone that actually cares about what I was babbling on about.  sleep.
[09:02] <Mithrandir> lamont: libnss-ldap?
[09:42] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[09:42] <sabdfl> hey hey fabio
[09:50] <Hobbsee> greetings sabdfl
[09:55] <sabdfl> hi Hobbsee
[09:59] <Mez> morning mark
[10:24] <sivang> morning all
[10:24] <pygi> hey sivang , you sleep too much ^_^
[10:25] <sivang> hi pygi , nice to see you too 
[10:25] <pygi> sivang: hehe ^_^
[10:43] <Kagou> hi
[11:31] <sjoerd> ogra: why does the ubuntu pulseaudio packaging disable jack and asyncns ? their not in main or so ?
[11:40] <cjwatson> sjoerd: jack is AFAIK deliberately not in main, and asyncns got synced after the initial pulseaudio packaging (so can be turned back on RSN)
[11:47] <sivang> Lathiat: around?
[11:47] <sjoerd> cjwatson: ok, so jack will stay the pulseaudio debian <> ubuntu diff then
[11:48] <Lathiat> sivang: ya
[11:50] <sivang> Lathiat: I've found something similar to something I Need to patch in n-d, http://avahi.org/ticket/71 , but I can't seem to find DBUS_VERSION_{MAJOR,MINOR} in the source distro anymore, do you know if this has been completely replaced by DBUS_{MAJOR,MINOR}_PROTOCOL_VERSION with the switch to 1.0.1 ?
[11:51] <cjwatson> sjoerd: that's my understanding, but only as an ftpmaster who wondered verbally what the same diff was for a couple of weeks back :)
[11:51] <sjoerd> heh, ok :)
[11:55] <Lathiat> sivang: thats done by avahi customly
[11:55] <Lathiat> line 413 of configure.ac
[11:55] <Lathiat>     DBUS_VERSION=`$PKG_CONFIG dbus-1 --modversion`
[11:55] <Lathiat>     DBUS_VERSION_MAJOR=`echo $DBUS_VERSION | awk -F. '{print $1}'`
[11:55] <Lathiat> etc
[11:56] <sivang> Lathiat: I see, I might have to include something like this then, if it's not already included by upstream, thanks
[11:57] <Lathiat> nps
[11:59] <sivang> Lathiat: yep, upstream uses the same hack
[12:08] <tepsipakki> shouldn't tg3 ethernet be supported OOTB on dapper? I can't install a Fujitsu Esprimo with it, edgy works
[12:08] <tepsipakki> ie. it isn't detected on boot
[12:08] <tepsipakki> (netboot)
[12:09] <tepsipakki> heh
[12:09] <tepsipakki> Fujitsu: you are safe ;)
[12:13] <Keybuk> tepsipakki: lspci -n
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: Can I convince you to let gcl into dapper-proposed? Pretty please?
[12:14] <tepsipakki> keybuk: doesn't work on the installation console, but I'll try with a live-cd
[12:14] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: I don't deal with SRU
[12:15] <chris77^> Hello. Where can I tell the Ubuntu installer to copy additional files and add new users to /etc/passwd as well as set some permissions?
[12:15] <cjwatson> chris77^: preseed/late_command; see the installation guide for details
[12:15] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: It's been approved by motu-sru...
[12:17] <StevenK> Evidently, that's what he thinks. :-P
[12:18] <Fujitsu> Apparently.
[12:18] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I think approving also requires checking the uploaded source versus the debdiff in the bug report.
[12:18] <Fujitsu> Probably, yes.
[12:18] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: does it matter which version I use (dapper, edgy..)
[12:18] <tepsipakki> ?
[12:19] <tepsipakki> where did /proc/pci go, btw?
[12:19] <StevenK>  /proc/pci is long dead.
[12:20] <tepsipakki> ok, well it would be nice to have lspci in busybox, then :)
[12:20] <Spads> try poking in /proc/bus/pci/
[12:21] <tepsipakki> too cryptic
[12:22] <tepsipakki> all it showed in human readable for was the uhci/ehci-stuff
[12:22] <tepsipakki> forM
[12:23] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: anna-install pciutils-udeb
[12:23] <tepsipakki> oh .)
[12:23] <tepsipakki> :)
[12:23] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Do /you/ do SRUs?
[12:24] <tepsipakki> I'll try that
[12:24] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: yes, but not *right* now :-)
[12:24] <StevenK> Aww.
[12:24] <cjwatson> fabbione: fixed your lsb-base bug
[12:25] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: If you could do it when you have the time, it would be great.
[12:25] <cjwatson> I will
[12:25] <Fujitsu> Thanks!
[12:26] <fabbione> cjwatson: thanks a lot
[12:29] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: ok, lspci -n showed this for the network card: "000.... 14e4:167b rev. 02"
[12:30] <gnomefreak> fabbione: thank you for the mdadm fix looks like it is fixed
[12:30] <gnomefreak> might have spoke too soon
[12:31] <gnomefreak> yep
[12:32] <Fujitsu> gnomefreak: What was the problem with your machine?
[12:32] <fabbione> they are just warnings. nothing fatal
[12:32] <gnomefreak> Fujitsu: nothing other than updating mdadm and lvm-common. others couldnt boot
[12:32] <Fujitsu> Yes, I've noticed my machine now boots :)
[12:33] <gnomefreak> now just a flash install issue
[12:33] <fabbione> there is some stuff i need to discuss with madduck 
[12:33] <fabbione> and wait for Keybuk to move some mdadm/lvm stuff into udev
[12:41] <gnomefreak> apt seems to also be crashing
[12:42] <user__> when using %post --nochroot (using kickstart) and untarring foo, the progressbar is not moving at all. Is this a known issue?
[12:43] <Hobbsee> user__: please check malone
[12:44] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: up-to-date feisty does your apt segfault?
[12:44] <Hobbsee> gnomefreak: hasnt so far, i just used it
[12:44] <cjwatson> user__: there's no progress bar for %post unless you implement it yourself
[12:45] <gnomefreak> ok let me try booting difffernet kernel (shouldnt help though)
[12:45] <cjwatson> at least, no progress bar updates
[12:45] <user__> cjwatson, that's odd, because it displays one.
[12:45] <user__> ah.
[12:45] <cjwatson> user__: yes, that's just the general finish-install progress bar
[12:45] <cjwatson> I don't regard this as a bug
[12:45] <user__> cjwatson, what file is it that would need modifcation?
[12:46] <cjwatson> user__: well, (a) your %post script to source the debconf confmodule and add suitable db_progress commands, (b) finish-install to allocate a different amount of space for the progress bar
[12:47] <cjwatson> user__: honestly, I'd just leave it alone - that progress bar is calculated based on the number of finish-install scripts that are available, and it's going to be pretty fiddly to change it
[12:47] <user__> ok, i'm extracting a huge tarrbal there, is there a way to redirect the output to the install setup easly from %post?
[12:48] <cjwatson> so one thing you could do is make the info messages change but not actually move the progress bar; that would be less fiddle
[12:48] <user__> if a user that uses the product doesn't see a progressbar moving while the huge tarrbal is extracing the user could suspect the instalation failed/froze
[12:48] <cjwatson> fiddly
[12:49] <cjwatson> however, in order to do that you're going to have to arrange for a shell command to be called after extracting each file (note that this will slow down the extraction a lot if there are many small files)
[12:51] <user__> I wonder if busybox is supporting this
[12:51] <user__> feel free to elborate
[12:51] <cjwatson> busybox? normal tar doesn't even support this easily - you'd have to get a list of all files and extract them each by hand
[12:52] <cjwatson> you also need a debconf template somewhere that you can subst into in order to pass to db_progress INFO
[12:53] <cjwatson> I suppose you could abuse one of base-installer's
[12:53] <cjwatson> given that, it would be '. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' at the top of your %post script, and 'db_progress SUBST base-installer/debootstrap/info/extracting SUBST0 "$filename"; db_progress INFO base-installer/debootstrap/info/extracting' before extracting each file
[12:54] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: ping
[12:54] <cjwatson> user__: I leave the tar integration up to you :-)
[12:55] <gnomefreak> whats the chances of mdadm messing with apt/aptitude?
[12:56] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: seems exceedingly unlikely
[12:57] <gnomefreak> it was a long shot
[12:57] <Fujitsu> tepsipakki: Note that Keybuk isn't actually in the channel at the moment.
[12:57] <tepsipakki> duh
[12:57] <mnepton> "tar integration" is a fantastic euphemism for UDS smoke breaks
[12:57] <tepsipakki> missed that
[01:02] <ogra> cjwatson, sjoerd, right i disabled jack on pittis request ... libasyncns will be enabled again if its ok for main (nobody seems to know exactly what its needed for) ...
[01:08] <tepsipakki> while Keybuk is away does anyone know how I can debug further this tg3 madness.. lspci lists the device as unknown, but the ID is 14e4:167b
[01:09] <cjwatson> that just means lspci's database is out of date, and is irrelevant
[01:10] <tepsipakki> www.pcidatabase.com doesn't know about 167b either
[01:10] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: your symptoms usually just mean that some kernel module needs to have the id added to its MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE
[01:12] <tepsipakki> yes, tg3 doesn't have that in 2.6.15../modules.pcimap, but in 2.6.17 it is
[01:13] <cjwatson> there you go then
[01:13] <cjwatson> unless 2.6.15 has the new_id stuff in /sys, the only thing you can do is rebuild that module
[01:15] <tepsipakki> and no hope for getting support added for dapper?
[01:28] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: it's not necessarily impossible; talk to BenC
[01:29] <tepsipakki> ok, I'll file a bug first
[01:47] <Enola_Gay> hi all
[01:47] <Enola_Gay> Is it possible to integrate in Feisty a grub repair function on cd/dvd?
[01:48] <Enola_Gay> Since it is very hard for beginners to chroot and repair grub.
[01:50] <realist> Enola_Gay: a GUI tool?
[01:50] <Hobbsee|Remote> realist: wouldnt really help, if X were broken.
[01:52] <Ng> unless it's on a live CD type install disc. also having grub and X broken is probably not a good sign ;)
[01:53] <realist> I presumed they were talking about a live CD
[01:53] <cjwatson> Enola_Gay: there's already such a function on the alternate install CD; boot in rescue mode
[01:53] <Hobbsee|Remote> yeah well.  that being said, installing ubuntu first, and mounting the windows partition by default, then reinstalling windows, will stop your ubuntu from booting, and drop you in a rescue shell until you figure how to get out of it.
[01:53] <Hobbsee|Remote> from edgy up
[01:54] <cjwatson> on the desktop CD, we assume that desktop facilities will be available; if not, somebody who speaks the desktop's language should write them :-)
[01:54] <Hobbsee|Remote> (that's after you reinstall grub, to fix the mbr that windows thrashed)
[02:05] <realist> Hobbsee: ctcp?
[02:06] <Hobbsee> realist: sorry, wrong button
[02:06] <Hobbsee> realist: meant to do a whois, and missed.
[02:07] <realist> oh, gui client?
[02:08] <Hobbsee> realist: yes.  Hobbsee|Remote is irssi
[02:21] <lamont> Mithrandir: libnss-ldap
[02:22] <lamont> 253 (not yet packaged for debian) fixes things for our glibc
[02:26] <realist> Hobbsee: no ssh/screen? :-(
[02:27] <Hobbsee> realist: that's what the remote one is.
[02:28] <Hobbsee> realist: i was dealing with some stuff with feisty here - didnt want to be d/c and reconnecting every time i restarted X and whatever...
[02:29] <realist> I'll take your word for it ;-)
[02:37] <BenC> milestone day for feisty...2.6.19 becomes default...fear my eminent bug surge
[02:37] <Hobbsee> yay!
[02:42] <rodarvus> BenC, all packages have already been accepted from NEW, built, etc?
[02:42] <BenC> rodarvus: kernel is, lrm just now uploaded. As soon as it builds, linux-meta will follow
[02:42] <Enola_Gay> realist: a GUI would be great but an grub entry on boot cd would be enough
[02:43] <Enola_Gay> cjwatson: How it works? I think most people download the desktop cd so it should be there too.
[02:43] <rodarvus> BenC, nice, I'll retry it on my fglrx machine in a few hours, then
[02:49] <cjwatson> Enola_Gay: it's not feasible to add that particular code to the desktop CD, for complicated reasons; it would have to be a GUI facility on the desktop, which isn't really my domain
[02:53] <Enola_Gay> cjwatson: Ok, but an easy to find function would be great.
[03:08] <zul> hey
[03:08] <Spads> hi zul 
[03:08] <Spads> any luck with my xen problem?
[03:09] <zul> nope still working on it
[03:09] <pirast> does anyone have an idea where doko is?
[03:09] <cjwatson> holiday
[03:10] <Ng> he's rollerscating around america ;)
[03:10] <pirast> ah nice :-) i am just wondering because there is a very annoying openoffice bug in edgy :-) but holidays are important, too :-)
[03:11] <pirast> do you know when he will be back?
[03:12] <Ng> monday I believe
[03:13] <pirast> Ng, thanks
[03:17] <cjwatson> he's aware of a number of openoffice.org bugs and I'm fairly sure there'll be an upload not long after he gets back
[03:17] <cjwatson> I discussed them with him at allhands
[03:20] <BenC> cjwatson: is it possible to get ports kicked so the ia64 build of linux-source shows up?
[03:23] <cjwatson> BenC: that would be a sysadmin problem; surprised it hasn't happened automatically
[03:24] <BenC> cjwatson: ok, thanks
 given that, it would be '. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' at the top of your %post script, and 'db_progress SUBST base-installer/debootstrap/info/extracting SUBST0 "$filename"; db_progress INFO base-installer/debootstrap/info/extracting' before extracting each file 
[03:29] <user__> cjwatson, it only displays: "extracing foo .... "
[03:29] <user__>  i put  db)progress INFO ; tar xv... foo.tar.gz ; 
[03:29] <user__> but still no go
[03:29] <cjwatson> your report is garbled; please show me the exact code snippet (as short as you can, to avoid flooding this channel), and exactly what message you see
[03:32] <user__> cjwatson, http://pastebin.ca/254110
[03:34] <cjwatson> user__: it doesn't look as if you understood what I said. You need those db_progress commands before extracting each file in turn, not before the entire tar command. Like I say, I leave figuring out how to extract each file in turn up to you, but it's certainly not by just running 'tar -xvf /cdrom/stage4.tar.gz -C /target'.
[03:34] <cjwatson> Running a single big tar command means that you have no opportunity to update the progress bar.
[03:35] <user__> can I just redirect the output of the stage4 to the install screen?
[03:35] <cjwatson> No.
[03:35] <cjwatson> Well, not sanely. I suppose you could try, but I don't really want to offer help with ghastly hacks. :)
[03:36] <cjwatson> the main install display runs on /dev/tty1
[03:36] <user__> What options are left, i'm in the last stage, we are about to deliver 500+ ubuntu desktop pc's. Now if I leaf it as it is, the user might think that the restoring process is frozen/not working anymore.
[03:37] <cjwatson> I've already offered a concrete suggestion; if you want good progress output, you need to use 'tar tf' to get the file list, and extract each in turn
[03:37] <cjwatson> I'm confused as to why you aren't shipping the machines preinstalled
[03:38] <cjwatson> the last three lines of your %post script are bogus
[03:39] <cjwatson> #
[03:39] <cjwatson> /bin/mknod -m 660 /target/dev/console c 5 1 ;
[03:39] <cjwatson> #
[03:39] <cjwatson> /bin/mknod -m 660 /target/dev/null c 1 3 ;
[03:39] <cjwatson> #
[03:39] <cjwatson> shutdown -r now 
[03:39] <cjwatson> the system already handles creating /dev/console and /dev/null on boot (assuming you haven't broken udev), and you shouldn't shutdown at the end of a %post script - the installer will do that itself
[03:43] <user__> cjwatson, because those are supposed to be recovery cd's.
[03:44] <cjwatson> ok
[03:44] <cjwatson> fair enough; you still shouldn't need to mknod stuff by hand though
[03:46] <cjwatson> user__: you could also create a udeb for all this and include a debconf template in it that says "Restoring system; please wait..."
[03:46] <cjwatson> and not bother fiddling with tar
[03:46] <cjwatson> creating a udeb will be slightly more work in that you'll have to regenerate the Packages and Release files, but you may be doing that anyway
[03:47] <cjwatson> any udeb with Priority: standard in its control file will be used by the installer by default
[03:47] <user__> i'm using kickstart and preseed so only ubuntu-minmal get's installed.
[03:47] <user__> hmm, i'll lookinto it.
[03:49] <cjwatson> you'll need to learn some basic debconf programming, but not a lot, and there are plenty of examples in the archive
[03:52] <user__> any example suggestions that would make life easier?
[03:56] <cjwatson> user__: tzsetup, maybe? note the finish-install/progress/tzsetup template there; the end of that template name is derived from finish-install.d/05tzsetup, by stripping off the directory name and the initial digits
[03:57] <cjwatson> you basically just need a debconf template, the debian/rules, debian/changelog, and debian/copyright build goop, and a debian/control that has Priority: standard and whatever else you want to call it
[03:58] <cjwatson> drop the XB-Installer-Menu-Item from debian/control and drop debian-installer/tzsetup-udeb/title (or whatever) from the templates file
[03:58] <cjwatson> and your finish-install.d script can just do the untar bit and whatever else you want
[04:32] <Spads> ajmitch: ping
[04:32] <zul> Spads: hes probably asleep 
[04:33] <Spads> yeah, 'sokay
[04:34] <cjwatson> mvo: any chance of another synaptic upload for edgy-proposed without the aclocal.m4 and configure changes?
[04:34] <cjwatson> I'd be happier without trying to work out the possible effects of those
[04:35] <mvo> cjwatson: certainly
[04:36] <Mithrandir> lamont: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libnss-ldap/+bug/51315 maybe?
[04:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51315 in libnss-ldap "udevd: nss_ldap: failed to bind to LDAP server" [Unknown,Fix released]  
[04:37] <cjwatson> mvo: thanks
[04:38] <lamont> Mithrandir: I think 70146 is more likely
[04:38] <lamont> otoh, the timeout issue was there too...
[04:39] <lamont> apt-get -udy dist-upgrade
[04:39] <lamont> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[04:39] <lamont>   startup-tasks system-services ubuntu-base ubuntu-minimal upstart
[04:39] <lamont>   upstart-compat-sysv upstart-logd
[04:39] <lamont> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[04:39] <lamont>   sysvinit
[04:39] <lamont> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 7 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[04:39] <lamont> what's wrong with that picture?
[04:39] <lamont> maybe having dapper and edgy deb lines in /etc/apt/sources.list is a bad idea...
[04:40] <lamont> yep
[04:41] <user__> cjwatson, can the udeb be installed after %post ?
[04:41] <user__> %post --nochroot 
[04:42] <cjwatson> user__: that's not meaningful
[04:42] <cjwatson> udebs are all installed considerably earlier, but when they're installed doesn't have much bearing on when code in them is run
[04:43] <cjwatson> user__: Kickstart %post scripts are run from finish-install.d/01kickseed; anything later than 01 will be run after the %post script
[04:52] <HarryR> heardly any of my shell scripts are working anymore after the upgrade
[05:06] <trappist> HarryR: are they using #!/bin/sh or #!/bin/bash
[05:07] <HarryR> #!/usr/bin/env sh
[05:08] <Ng> sh on edgy is dash, not bash, so bashisms no longer work. change the sh to bash and you'll most likely be fine
[05:08] <Ng> sh means you want a POSIX shell
[05:08] <thom> (and this is entirely the wrong channel for support)
[05:12] <HarryR> but don't you consider that's a politically bad decision to make the move from the de facto Bash shell to the less common de jure approach (have strict POSIX and like it!)
[05:13] <Mithrandir> no, it's a good thing.
[05:13] <Mithrandir> it's like saying that enforcing proper C++ is bad because some code breaks.
[05:14] <Keybuk> bash isn't de facto anyway
[05:15] <thom> HarryR: note also that bash is only de facto on certain flavours of linux anyway
[05:15] <HarryR> In the majority that I've used it certainly is
[05:15] <sladen> when code is known to be of correct syntax, we can process it faster.  It's taken a few years, but the world has come around to this with CSS/XHTML.  POSIX shell is similar
[05:15] <Keybuk> indeed, a reasonable number of Linux distributions and every other flavour of UNIX in the world don't use bash as /bin/sh
[05:18] <thom> Keybuk: OSX does at this point (10.1 was zsh as /bin/sh iirc), but that's about it afaik
[05:18] <Keybuk> zsh -> sh is just wrong :p
[05:18] <Keybuk> zsh isn't even vaguely posix
[05:18] <HarryR> yes but on the other hand it makes developers productivity slower
[05:18] <Keybuk> HarryR: why does it?
[05:18] <HarryR> think of how productive people were when they developed for IE alone
[05:18] <Keybuk> developers develop to standards
[05:18] <thom> (good ones, anyway)
[05:18] <HarryR> all those features available, scrolling marques, brilliant effects which are only now being introduced into CSS 3
[05:19] <HarryR> it's almost as if the standards based approach is keeping the industry back from real innovation
[05:19] <Keybuk> note that bash is still installed in Ubuntu (it's still the default user shell), so nothing stops you using #!/bin/bash -- which is what you should have been doing before
[05:19] <sladen> HarryR: yes exactly.  unproductive for the developers and massively unproductive for people trying to view the result with either (a) a different version of MSIE, or (b) something that wasn't MSIE.  Like a linux-based browser for instance
[05:19] <mjg59> Could we not have this discussion here?
[05:20] <mjg59> There's -offtopic
[05:20] <HarryR> oh im only yanking your chain
[05:21] <Spads> oh, then you want ##chainyank.  That's down the hall
[05:58] <jdong> crimsun: Setting up flashplugin-nonfree (9.0.21.78~ubuntu1~6.10prevu1) ...
[05:58] <jdong> download or license refused
[05:58] <jdong> crimsun: the new flashplugin upload adamantly refuses to install
[05:58] <jdong> regardless of my DEBIAN_FRONTEND choice
[06:07] <jdong> crimsun: it seems to fill in /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree-unpackdir for already downloaded location, which in turn fails the download
[06:07] <thom>  /usr/lib? seems utterly broken
[06:08] <jdong> config: db_set flashplugin-nonfree/local /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree-unpackdir
[06:08] <jdong> hmm
[06:10] <jdong> It would seem like somehow the local path was already set
[06:13] <jdong> crimsun: hmm, unsetting that makes it work again
[06:13] <jdong> crimsun: I'm gonna assume it's a fluke on my system
[06:14] <dade`> BenC: have you seen the query?
[06:14] <BenC> yes
[06:19] <cjwatson> jdong: try 'dpkg-reconfigure debconf' rather than setting DEBIAN_FRONTEND in the environment
[06:19] <jdong> cjwatson: got it sorted out.. Somehow my debconf had already a preset nonexistant local flash directory
[06:20] <jdong> which was coincidentally the same location as one in the debian/config script
[06:20] <steveire> Hey. Is there some way I can know when my laptop makes a connection to the internet?
[06:20] <jdong> steveire: I'm gonna get smacked for this, but have you tried using ping?
[06:23] <cjwatson> steveire: scripts in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/ are run when a PPP link comes up
[06:23] <neuralis> steveire: try the #ubuntu channel for support in the future. that said, dhclient has callbacks (shell scripts) that you could use to run logic such as checking for an internet connection (e.g. by connecting to google).
[06:23] <steveire> jdong: Wouldn't I need to run ping every minute/few minutes for that to be a solution? I'd like a scenario like this: Turn on laptop while not in a wireless zone. Walk into wireless zone. networkmanager connects. Networkmanager executes script.sh (The whole point of the operation)
[06:24] <steveire> neuralis: Ah, right. Sorry
[06:24] <cjwatson> ... but if this isn't PPP then neuralis' suggestion is more appropriate.
[06:25] <steveire> cjwatson: I'll look into that. PPP means broadband, right?
[06:25] <cjwatson> er, ish
[06:25] <cjwatson> it's also used for dial-up
[06:26] <steveire> Cheers. Bye now.
[06:35] <thom> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/11/21.html
[06:35] <thom> interesting points
[06:44] <cjwatson> BenC: do you have those Provides in fs-{core,secondary}-modules queued up? e.g. fs-secondary-modules Provides: affs-modules, fat-modules, hfs-modules, hfsplus-modules, nfs-modules, ntfs-modules, ufs-modules, vfat-modules
[06:47] <Burgwork> thom: I would love to simplify it like that
[06:50] <cjwatson> infinity: can builddmaster/accepted be cleaned out a bit? drescher is short of disk and there's 112GB in there
[06:53] <slomo_> infinity: hi... please give-back tomboy and gmime2.2 everywhere where it failed, must build fine now... thanks :)
[07:04] <cjwatson> BenC: if you could hold off on any further linux-source-2.6.19 uploads for a little bit, that would be good - drescher is running low on disk and another kernel upload would run it dangerously close to full
[07:12] <ajmitch> Spads: pong?
[07:12] <Spads> ajmitch: hello
[07:12] <Spads> ajmitch: got a brief minute to chat about xen?
[07:13] <ajmitch> yeah
[07:33] <BenC> cjwatson: Ok
[08:36] <jdong> pygi: brasero doesn't use libburn for burning iso's, does it...
[08:38] <pygi> jdong: mhmh, it should AFAIK?
[08:38] <jdong> pygi: well, on my edgy backport, ps aux still shows cdrecord.mmap's doing the job ;-)
[08:39] <pygi> ergh, something is bad then :)
[08:39] <pygi> jdong: will investigate tommorow :P
[08:39] <jdong> pygi: at least your bugs still leave the program working :)
[08:39] <jdong> pygi: you've earned my greatest respect for that ;-)
[08:39] <pygi> jdong: ergh :P
[08:40] <jdong> pygi: now, why does my FC6 lamp install start gdm?
[08:40] <pygi> well, Brasero always does a fallback
[08:40] <pygi> if it encounters any kind of problems
[08:40] <jdong> I see
[08:41] <pygi> jdong: tho it might be that some weird thing is happening at your place. I tried burning ISO file without any problems with no cdrecord
[08:42] <pygi> jdong: might also be some weird bug so I'll just investigate ^_^
[08:44] <jdong> pygi: would feisty libburn need to be backported to edgy?
[08:44] <jdong> pygi: I'm testing on edgy here, not feisty...
[08:44] <pygi> jdong: nah
[08:44] <pygi> jdong: they are same versions atm
[08:44] <jdong> mmkay, I'll stop pestering you with my libburn ignorance :)
[08:44] <pygi> jdong: nah, you aren't, don't worry
[08:45] <pygi> I'm grateful for any reports ... we need to have something usable in place of cdrtools
[08:45] <pygi> and the infamous cdrkit
[08:48] <Kaleo> raphink: bonjour
[08:49] <pygi> jdong: so you are free to bug me whenever and for whatever at least burning related
[08:49] <jdong> pygi: ok :)
[08:51] <highvoltage> pygi: you rock man
[08:51] <pygi> highvoltage: nah, you all rock ^_^
[08:51] <highvoltage> pygi: any progress with getting specifications for those writers?
[08:51] <pygi> highvoltage: nah :(
[08:52] <pygi> highvoltage: still working blindly :-/
[08:52] <pygi> and I have some problems with USB attached burning devices, and I have none to test on :-/
[08:52] <highvoltage> I'm sure there must be a way to get them.
[08:52] <pygi> (I mean, users are reporting problems)
[08:52] <pygi> highvoltage: I know, but oh well :-/
[08:52] <highvoltage> yep
[08:53] <pygi> I'm helpless ... I don't have the drives or specs of Joerg ...
[08:53] <pygi> but I have a wish, and that's all I need for now, everything else should be fine ... some day at least
[08:53] <pygi> highvoltage: cdrkit CANNOT evolve, nobody is willing to mess with code
[08:53] <highvoltage> well, as far as I understand it's big and ugly.
[08:53] <pygi> true, but let's not care about them :)
[08:54] <pygi> we should take care of libburn ;)
[08:54] <highvoltage> indeed.
[08:55] <pygi> so my task sometime soon is to try to get some sponsor for drives :P
[08:55] <pygi> I doubt anybody local would help FOSS project (Croatia is bad in that regard), so will poke some people outside that I know
[08:55] <pygi> for specs, we'll need a plan ^_^
[08:56] <highvoltage> drives are cheap here. i'd even be willing to buy at least one drive and ship it over there.
[08:56] <pygi> highvoltage: nah, don't worry.
[08:56] <Ng> pygi: are there specific things that need testing? I have a couple of USB burners I could use
[08:57] <pygi> Ng: there are actually, on different set of kernels...
[08:57] <pygi> Ng: 2.6.19rc5 for example, and series of 2.6.18
[08:58] <pygi> several oopses appear, and I have no idea what to suggest for testing since everything we tried didn't help
[08:58] <Ng> pygi: I'm just upgrading my desktop to feisty now
[08:59] <pygi> Ng: ok
[09:02] <pygi> highvoltage: I have time for everything, for spec even. Libburn happened over night .... but I want it to stay here for some time ^_^
[09:02] <pygi> highvoltage: lets just be patient ^_^
[09:03] <highvoltage> pygi: I'm willing to be patient
[09:03] <pygi> I know ^_^
[09:03] <highvoltage> pygi: I do think that there are big benefits for pygi though
[09:03] <highvoltage> I mean, libburn :)
[09:03] <pygi> perhaps, we'll see :)
[09:03] <highvoltage> and I think there are many who could benefit by funding the development
[09:03] <pygi> As I already said, I think there are far better devs then me ...
[09:04] <highvoltage> that's true for just about every developer :)
[09:04] <pygi> true, but it's interesting why everyone is talking so much about burning sucks this, and that, bla, bla ...
[09:04] <pygi> but nobody does anything
[09:04] <highvoltage> yep
[09:05] <pygi> for example, posted on forum call for opinions about should I include beagle dep in Brasero ...
[09:05] <pygi> they started flaming me beagle is bad, that I should include tracker (which isnt implemented upstream!!!), and that they'll fork all projects if I don't , bla, bla :P
[09:06] <highvoltage> well, that's what you get for posting to forums :p
[09:06] <pygi> yes, I understand that ^_^
[09:06] <pygi> but some kind of general opinion like that is everywhere ...
[09:06] <pygi> you suck, we'll fork you altought we don't know a thing about this :)))
[09:07] <pygi> cdrkit is one of biggest mistakes debian did
[09:07] <pygi> altought I agree that cdrecord era could not be continued...
[09:07] <pygi> Ng: I could use your services for testing later then if you are willing ^_^
[09:08] <highvoltage> I'm not sure Debian had much of a choice.
[09:08] <pygi> Yes, that's why I said that the cdrecord era couldn't be continued...
[09:08] <pygi> but they rushed in it without too much thinking...
[09:08] <Ng> pygi: certainly
[09:08] <pygi> but anyway, I'm just exactly no one to judge about that
[09:09] <pygi> Ng: thank you 
[09:09] <pygi> I'm neither debian, neither I'm a ubuntu dev, or whatever
[09:09] <pygi> so my opinion is worth 0 :)
[09:11] <pygi> highvoltage: so feel free to ignore me ;)
[09:11] <_ion> Re: brasero, i have a faint memory of someone talking about implementing tracker support to brasero. I could remember incorrectly, though.
[09:11] <_ion> That is, someone planning to implement it.
[09:11] <highvoltage> pygi: hey! I'm not ignoring you!
[09:12] <pygi> _ion: yes, and forking ^_^
[09:12] <pygi> highvoltage: I know, but I'm saying you are free to :)
[09:12] <highvoltage> pygi: neither do I think your opiniong is worth '0'
[09:12] <highvoltage> pygi: don't put too much value on what other people think
[09:12] <pygi> _ion: let them fork whatever they want. Actually, I'd like to see can they change one line of code in libburn without breaking things ^_^
[09:13] <pygi> highvoltage: don't worry for me :)
[09:13] <_ion> The discussion i saw was *definitely* not about forking. I wish i'd remember *where* that discussion was. Perhaps the tracker or gnome-something mailing list.
[09:13] <pygi> _ion: actually, me and Phillip talked about creating indexing abstraction layer. But it'll take some time even if we decide to implement it.
[09:13] <pygi> _ion: gimme some time for things, I'm busy
[09:14] <pygi> _ion: but I don't like the attitude that I *MUST* do something or *ELSE* ...
[09:15] <_ion> pygi: AFAIK the tracker and beagle guys are planning a standard dbus API, which both of them are going to implement in the future.
[09:15] <pygi> _ion: that's very nice.
[09:15] <_ion> Who has such attitude? Some random people at the forums?
[09:16] <pygi> _ion: ofcourse, lol ^_^
[09:17] <_ion> You're better off ignoring the opinions people have there. ;-)
[09:17] <pygi> ^_^
[09:17] <vdepizzol> there is any plan to distribuite gaim in next ubuntu with a different icon theme?
[09:17] <pygi> vdepizzol: what about apt-get-ing other icon themes? :)
[09:19] <vdepizzol> pygi: gaim only accepts acctually one theme, because its icons are freely in /usr/share/gaim :\
[09:19] <pygi> vdepizzol: artistic questions are well, at least debatable ... so default wherever we can, and make users know they have a choice ^_^
[09:19] <pygi> vdepizzol: feel free to write a python script which'll change that. Make sure to rename all old files from something.something to something.something.backup and recreate new files in there ^_^
[09:20] <pygi> vdepizzol: actually, should be quite trivial to enable changing theme in gaim.
[09:20] <Adri2000> mvo: you've just uploaded the merge of pppoeconf... but I had already done it, was waiting on malone bug #72370 :-/
[09:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72370 in pppoeconf "[Merge]  pppoeconf 1.12ubuntu1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72370
[09:20] <vdepizzol> pygi: right
[09:20] <pygi> vdepizzol: got it at least? :)
[09:21] <pygi> vdepizzol: and second task is to bug upstream about making theme switchable ;)
[09:21] <pygi> so we can see several benefits of work ^_^
[09:21] <fdoving> anyone able to check status of kopete in edgy-proposed for me?
[09:22] <vdepizzol> pygi: I really need to learn python :P...
[09:22] <pygi> vdepizzol: well, you are free to start ... there are so much great books
[09:22] <vdepizzol> pygi: Jackub Steiner created a icon theme for gaim following tango guidelines: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=40047
[09:22] <pygi> vdepizzol: nice, but as I said ... you cannot get the taste of everyone with one option ... 
[09:23] <vdepizzol> pygi: uhum
[09:23] <pygi> vdepizzol: some love, some don't like default theme, but either is fine
[09:23] <pygi> we provide you with everything you need to change theme ^_^
[09:24] <pygi> hey BenC 
[09:24] <BenC> pygi: hello
[09:24] <mvo> Adri2000: oh, I'm very sorry :(
[09:25] <mvo> Adri2000: I will fix it
[09:25] <pygi> BenC: I shall bug one day soon if you allow. I need to know about some of SCSI commands filters in kernel, even the new .19rc5 
[09:25] <Adri2000> mvo: fix it?
[09:26] <mvo> Adri2000: look at the diff and see how it differs
[09:26] <slomo_> BenC: hi... are there any known problems with the feisty kernel and DMA on via ide controllers that make hdparm just output "HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted"?
[09:27] <Adri2000> mvo: except the changelog, I don't think it differs much :)
[09:32] <mvo> Adri2000: oh, ok. I will double check. sorry for that again ./ 
[09:32] <Adri2000> mvo: diff just confirmed what I thought: only the changelog differs. anyway, I forgive you :p
[09:33] <Adri2000> ;-)
[09:35] <lifeless> mdz: so I have a crude email-gathering hwdb-client
[09:36] <lifeless> mdz: doing some polish to make it acceptable next.
[09:39] <imbrandon> moins all
[09:39] <ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
[09:41] <imbrandon> mdz: is there a way to get intouch with the forums council yet, or has it been formed, i've emailed a few times about the annoying google ad's on the forums but they seem to have not gotten through or have been ignored, i would really like to see those ad's go away
[09:44] <tormod> slomo, bug #72255
[09:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72255 in linux-source-2.6.19 "hard disk speed regression (DMA is off)" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72255
[09:46] <slomo_> tormod: thanks
[09:46] <mdz> lifeless: great, thanks
[09:46] <mdz> imbrandon: I'm not sure, ask the CC
[09:47] <imbrandon> k
[09:47] <mc44> any set plan for when the next tech board / CC are going to be?
[09:48] <ajmitch> mdz: how much longer will we have for spec review & approval?
[09:51] <mdz> ajmitch: next thursday (I've added it to the schedule)
[09:51] <ajmitch> alright, thanks
[09:57] <LaserJock> mdz: what's the proper procedure for getting a review?
[09:57] <LaserJock> random poking? ;-)
[09:58] <mdz> LaserJock: launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-reviewers
[09:59] <LaserJock> mdz: thanks
[09:59] <LaserJock> it would also have helped if I had remebered to mark it "Review" again :/
[10:05] <LaserJock> smurf: can I get a review on edubuntu-menus-completion ? I fixed your comments. thanks.
[10:16] <sivang> LaserJock: what sort of review is this?
[10:18] <LaserJock> sivang: spec
[10:18] <sivang> LaserJock: ah
[11:41] <unfo> hi all, feature-idea: feisty could come with apache2+php5 preconfigured, but apache2 would not start up until the user puts files in ~/public_html
[11:42] <unfo> then, as soon as you do, FAM triggers a message "Apache2 is starting, please wait".
[11:42] <unfo> good idea? bad idea?
[11:57] <unfo> or, it could pop up a paperclip icon in the systray.  When you click it, it could offer to install apache2 + php5 + current mysql for you.
[11:57] <HrdwrBoB> er
[11:57] <HrdwrBoB> what desktop user needs a apache2+php5
[11:59] <lifeless> HrdwrBoB: crackful ones clearly
[11:59] <unfo> HrdwrBoB: any desktop user who wants to host a phpbb, mediawiki, or such on their box.
[12:00] <unfo> Dynamic DNS is easy to set up nowadays.
[12:00] <_ion> Let's install GW-BASIC in dosbox by default! That would rule!
[12:00] <unfo> _ion: it would be cool.
[12:00] <HrdwrBoB> unfo: er
[12:00] <HrdwrBoB> and these users are not capable of doing it themselves?
[12:00] <unfo> _ion: or at least freedos.
[12:00] <unfo> HrdwrBoB: many are not capable.
[12:01] <_ion> hrdwrbob: Well, it's *php* they're using. ;-)
[12:01] <lifeless> unfo: I think the idea of noting the user tried to use public_html a nd doing something as a result is interesting
[12:01] <lifeless> unfo: preinstalling apache2 etc etc etc is likely not the right thing to do IMO
[12:03] <unfo> lifeless: maybe it could even offer to install php and/or mod_perl and/or rails depending on the filetype dropped.
[12:03] <HrdwrBoB> .. mod_perl!?
[12:04] <lifeless> unfo: thats getting somewhere. 
[12:04] <HrdwrBoB> if you are coding mod perl and you don't know how to install apache
[12:04] <HrdwrBoB> you should be shot
[12:04] <HrdwrBoB> though I don't disagree with the basic premise
[12:05] <unfo> HrdwrBoB: i plan to teach my younger brother perl sometime.
[12:05] <unfo> lifeless: hmm, and it could offer to install a dynamic dns auto-updater client.  If it did so, though, it would automatically set you up for daily dist-upgrades.
[12:05] <unfo> The auto-updater client would prompt you for a dyndns.org username and password.
[12:06] <bhale> Microsoft doesnt tell their developers that they "should be shot" if they cant admin IIS and MS SQL server
[12:06] <bhale> and it is probably against our CoC
[12:06] <HrdwrBoB> unfo: perl != mod
[12:06] <HrdwrBoB> mod_perl
[12:06] <HrdwrBoB> bhale: mod_perl is not perl
[12:06] <bhale> did I use the word perl?
[12:06] <HrdwrBoB> ok, remove the 'shooting' language
[12:06] <bhale> thanks.
[12:07] <unfo> Then it would tell you "Your new webpage is accessible at 'machinename' from your PC or 'someusername.dyndns.org' from the greater Internet."
[12:07] <HrdwrBoB> I have to support a very large terrible behemoth of a disaster of a website that's written in mod_perl, so it's a touchy subject :/
[12:08] <lifeless> unfo: I think what you want is something like - 'you have setup a personal home page but there is no server operating on this machine. Would you like to run our 'homepage server wizard'? '
[12:08] <lifeless> unfo: that wizard can then ask a bunch of questions as needed
[12:09] <unfo> HrdwrBoB: :-)