[12:09] lifeless: sure, sounds fine. [12:09] And the personal web server wizard could even be accessible from the Applications menu. [12:10] It could also install nvu and/or phpbb and/or mediawiki. === unfo_ [n=QSECADM@CPE0004e2d9f884-CM0013718690da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AlexMBas [n=alexandr@beigetower/alexandre] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gasbag [n=gasbag@68-189-241-88.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:25] cjwatson: yesterday you said you'd made a seed change to ubuntu regarding ppd files, but I don't see any change from you in the ubuntu.feisty seed [12:30] Would it be hard for me to write a spec for the above personal web server wizard idea? Do you think people would like my spec? [12:31] unfo_: we've got something like that already, but I'm too sleepy to say something usable [12:31] unfo_: look for Ubuntu Instant Server Manager on ubuntu wiki === geser [n=michael@dialin107117.justdsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:33] cool, didn't know. But how could I edit the spec to encompass my idea of autodetecting that the user just dropped a file in ~/public_html? [12:33] Would the instant server manager have to watch that directory using FAM or Gamin? [12:33] And what if it's not installed? [12:34] Really we need a clippy (paperclip-like Assistant) in Ubuntu. === apokryphos- [n=apokryph@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dous_ [n=dous@124.107.250.123] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:41] unfo_: clippy must die [12:41] unfo_: I hope you are joking [12:43] lifeless: the problem with clippy in Word was that it popped up far too often. [12:43] unfo_: no, the problem was that it existed [12:44] lifeless: a better clippy would be an unobtrusive systray icon that only pops up when you do unusual things like saving files in ~/public_html when you have no webserver installed. === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host81-155-182-237.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === smh [n=smh@CPE-67-48-248-195.new.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaloz [i=kaloz@openwrt/developer/Kaloz] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === AlexMBas [n=alexandr@beigetower/alexandre] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mirak [n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-67-233.w86-198.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:09] isn't ubuntu supposed to have a ubuntu+2 developpement release soon ? [01:10] mirak: +2? === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@39-88-199-200.vcnet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:12] mirak: dapper is LTS, edgy is stable, fiesty is development [01:14] well I believe there should be a intermediate between stable and developpement [01:14] because I use linux for 5 years, and ubuntu since 2. [01:15] right, a "sid" [01:15] but the developpement version are too broken to have me want to even report bugs [01:15] sid is unstable as you'll get [01:15] mirak, as sladen pointed, there is lts (real stable), edgy, which is stable and feisty for pure development [01:15] edgy is not stable [01:15] I couldn't even boot LVM [01:15] edgy is stable [01:15] mirak, feel free to report bugs. [01:15] usb to serial module support is broken [01:15] mirak: that's a bug; http://launchpad.net/distro/ubuntu/+filebug [01:16] rodarvus: problem is that I am sure there is more bug reports from ubuntu+0 than ubuntu+1 [01:16] hrm [01:16] there is no ubuntu+0 or ubuntu+1. please use proper names :) [01:16] by not having a testing release I am sure ubuntu is cutting itself from a big bug reporters base [01:16] mirak: https://launchpad.net/distro/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+filebug for the usb module [01:16] sladen: it's done [01:17] actually someone else did :) [01:17] mirak: can you confirm that you've experienced it aswell, [01:17] sladen: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/39101 [01:17] Malone bug 39101 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Doesn't recognise USB Serial device" [Medium,Unconfirmed] [01:17] this one yes [01:17] mirak: otherwise there's no way to judge the severity or validity of a bug report [01:17] well it's detected and reconised but it's broken [01:18] mirak: regarding 'testing', Ubuntu is in 'testing' for 3months out of every six months. That is the time to jump in find bugs and get them fixed before release === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@39-88-199-200.vcnet.com.br] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bye"] === quail [n=quail@unaffiliated/quaillinux/x-000001] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:20] mmm [01:21] but that puts us often away of using some new apps that use new libs [01:21] it's still frozen for six month :p [01:23] sladen: well for me edgy was far from usable 2 month before === dsas [n=dean@cpc2-stok6-0-0-cust395.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:34] mirak: sounds like the team could do with more help [01:36] edgy only has a four-month cycle so it's special [01:36] BenC, the current xorg-driver-fglrx package for amd64 is missing the X.Org driver (basically making the package useless :) ) [01:36] are you aware of the problem, or would you prefer me to file a new bug on LP? (there is none on the subject, yet) [01:36] rodarvus: interesting...I'll check it out [01:36] what file is missing? [01:37] fglrx_drv.so? [01:37] yup [01:37] /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:40] BenC, the differences are /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so, /usr/lib/xorg/modules/linux/libfglrxdrm.so and /usr/bin/fireglcontrolpanel (which are present on the old package only) === rmjb [n=richard@cuscon20834.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.49.221.40] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_away [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mnepton [n=mneptok@mneptok.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:03] rodarvus: Can you test a rebuilt package? [02:03] BenC, sure [02:04] this particular machine is currently building a package, but should be done in 10 minutes most [02:05] rodarvus: Uploading to people.ubuntu.com:~bcollins/ [02:06] rodarvus: It's 15461722 bytes, so keep an eye on it for when it's done [02:06] should be less than 2 minutes [02:07] BenC, nice, I'll report to you when I'm done with the testing [02:07] BenC, thanks! === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:08] rodarvus: no, thank you :) [02:08] if it works, I'll do a -2 upload shortly === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:16] jdong: I have to presume it is a local fluke on your system; I tested on dapper and edgy systems === _ion [i=johan@kiviniemi.name] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host81-155-182-237.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:20] BenC, I can't find the package on p.o.c/~bcollins/ === dsas_ [n=dean@cpc2-stok6-0-0-cust395.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:21] rodarvus: In his home dir, not http. [02:21] oh [02:21] infinity, thanks :) === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:38] BenC, fglrx_drv.so is on the wrong place (inside a fglrx_drv.so/ subdirectory), *and* libfglrxdrm.so is still missing [02:38] (essentially meaning X crashes on startup, if I move fglrx_drv.so to the right place) [02:39] ok [02:39] give me a minute to try again [02:39] sure === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.1.21.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:47] rodarvus: on it's way, 15470930 bytes === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:01] BenC, driver is working now, thanks! [03:01] rodarvus: thanks for testing! [03:01] uploading now [03:02] BenC, AIGLX is not working though (since the first 2.6.19, actually) [03:02] rodarvus: no idea why not [03:02] this is minor, and I suspect it might be related to version of Mesa [03:02] (hmm, or not) === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.231.160] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:03] what does glxinfo say? [03:03] do you plan to update the fglrx driver to 8.31.foo? [03:04] (this is on Xorg.0.log) (EE) AIGLX error: dlsym for __driCreatenewScreen_20050727 failed (/usr/lib/dri/fglrx_dri.so: undefined symbol: __driCreatenewScreen_20050727) [03:04] (EE) AIGLX: reverting to software rendering [03:05] BenC, glxinfo (actually fglrxinfo) just crashes [03:06] the right symbol name is __driCreateNewScreen_20050727, actually (I just pasted it manually from the other machine) [03:10] I'll be back in a minute === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:14] rodarvus: Do you have a link to a newer ati driver? [03:16] BenC, https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/64bit/ati-driver-installer-8.31.5-x86.x86_64.run and https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/linux/ati-driver-installer-8.31.5-x86.x86_64.run (supposing you create the tarball from this file) [03:17] thanks [03:18] BenC, thank YOU [03:22] BenC: woo! 2.6.19-6-generic #2 SMP *dance* [03:22] nice === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-132-184.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === joejaxx [i=jadaz87@ubuntu/member/joejaxx] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:31] rodarvus: Want to test 8.31.5 packages? [03:33] BenC, sure === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D91C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:47] brb === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:54] BenC, fglrx 8.31.5 is working fine (including 3D) [03:54] sweet [03:54] even AIGLX? [03:55] no [03:55] and btw, disregard that message. it is relevant (for AIGLX, of course) [03:55] but not for 3D [03:55] it is still present [03:55] (the error message) [03:55] ok, so what is working and what isn't? [03:56] 3D works, Composite doesn't (but this is expected) [03:56] I will *try* to fix Composite for feisty, but there is a good chance it won't happen [03:56] might need collaboration from ATI people [03:56] infinity: how can I tell if I have the right gl library ? [03:57] I'm wondering if its easy to write a little validator scripts [03:57] s/scripts/script/ [03:57] rodarvus: How is this compared to edgy...equal or better? [03:59] BenC, same as edgy, I would say [03:59] rodarvus: excellent, thanks for testing again === jack_wyt [n=jack@61.49.221.40] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@220.157.65.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:00] cjwatson: ping [04:00] BenC: Please tell me what you want and I'll reply when I'm around. [04:00] version 8.31.5 of this driver is supposed to fix handling of various video boards, but mine used to work just fine on edgy, so I can't tell you it *really* fixes something [04:00] cjwatson: Is disk space ok for an lrm upload? === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:09] <_ion> nvidia-glx | 1.0.9629+2.6.19.2-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/restricted Packages [04:09] <_ion> 9629 causes all OpenGL programs to segfault on NV2x hardware. [04:11] NV2x is legacy isn't it? [04:11] <_ion> Nope. [04:21] <_ion> Bug #72805 [04:21] Malone bug 72805 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.19 "nvidia-glx 1.0.9629 causes OpenGL programs to segfault on NV2x hardware" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/72805 === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:34] rodarvus: ping [04:35] rodarvus: when you get a chance take a look at bug 58721 [04:35] Malone bug 58721 in xserver-xorg-video-mga "Edgy upgrade breaks multiple Matrox cards" [Unknown,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/58721 [04:35] rodarvus: the problem is fixed in Debian Sid's version... dunno how you want to handle getting that to Edgy though [04:38] jdong, if I'm not completely mistaken, sid is using a new upstream version (reasonably different from what we have in edgy) [04:39] rodarvus: that is correct [04:39] I recompiled the sid version under edgy and gave it to some of those guys to test [04:39] and they've all reported back success... [04:39] so whatever they done upstream they fixed that [04:39] its a regression, but I'll likely only do it if I can cherry pick the patch in question into our package, and test it for a good while on edgy-proposed [04:39] sounds like a lot of work :-/ [04:40] jdong, I believe you, but a new upstream release (for edgy) is basically out of question, unfortunately :/ [04:40] what about shoving the new upstream version into edgy-backports as an interim workaround? [04:40] it'd require a trivial patch against debian/control to tweak a dependency [04:40] this could be an option, indeed [04:40] but otherwise works [04:41] first it'd need to be synced to feisty though [04:42] rodarvus: would you be willing to do it that way? === rotarychainsaw [n=bj@ool-18bbaf15.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:43] jdong, sure, that can be done. its not a *high* priority thing (I want to finish drafting of two specs and update of X.Org for 7.2 on feisty, before I do anything else) [04:44] jdong, but I appreciate if you add this information into the bug report (or create a new one), and subscribe me to it [04:44] rodarvus: I believe it's already on the bug report [04:45] rodarvus: at your leisure I need you to ACK a sync of sid's version to Feisty [04:45] and then we can move forward from there [04:46] jdong, X.Org 7.2 breaks ABI (again :) ), I was planning to hold syncs/merges until we have the xserver ready [04:46] ah, I see [04:46] but if its really urgent, as you say, we can hurry it, and rebuild later [04:47] rodarvus: I'd prefer to see this addressed... a lot of users are affected [04:47] but note that a sync from sid will *not* work, btw :) [04:47] rodarvus: huh? [04:47] it will need to be a manual new upstream release [04:47] ah, ok [04:47] pardon my unfamilarity with development policy :) [04:48] jdong, sid added new dependency tracking, after we froze X for edgy [04:48] we'll have to deal with that, before we are able to sync/merge drivers [04:49] rodarvus: new dependency tracking? === lastnode_ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:50] the only thing I noticed was that xserver-xorg-{core,dev} deps needed its epoch bumped down to 1 [04:52] exactly, and that means we can not sync from sid. === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:02] ok, I get what you're saying === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mnepton [n=mneptok@montreal.canonical.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@88-107-4-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ajmitch [n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode__ [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === paran [n=paran@cl-56.sto-01.se.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === predius_ [n=predius@200.121.251.151] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === predius [n=predius@200.121.172.254] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=IceChat7@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=IceChat7@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lionel [n=lionel@ip-61.net-82-216-103.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC [n=bcollins@67.97.251.10] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rotarychainsaw_ [n=bj@ool-18bbaf15.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee_ [n=IceChat7@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:53] BenC, ping [06:53] viviersf: pong [06:53] viviersf: on the way to bed, just so you know :) [06:53] BenC, kay [06:54] BenC, was just wondering how would i go about getting the kernel guys to add 3G drivers to the restricted modules [06:54] viviersf: you file a bug report against linux-restricted-modules-2.6.19 with all the info you have and we'll check it out [06:55] BenC, k kewl thx === Burgundavia_ [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/x-73bd44db14e92d0d] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:18] c [07:21] Riddell: my branch seems to have unbound on me; I'll sort it out [07:22] BenC: lrm should be fine === mvo [n=egon@p54A67183.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dade` [n=dade@nectarine/admin/dade] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:39] Riddell: fixed now; sorry about that === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === giftnudel [n=mb@p54A943FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === predius_ [n=predius@200.121.172.254] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:50] cjwatson: are you awake early, or insanely late? === mbiebl [n=michael@e180067210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:51] mnepton: early; may go back to bed for a bit [07:53] cjwatson: Can I bug you to look at the wlassistant SRU, or should I wait until you get up again? [07:54] StevenK: probably when I get up again would be better. I got through about half the pending SRUs yesterday. [07:54] cjwatson: Shall I remind you, or just exercise patience? === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@pD9E2680C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:58] StevenK: it's on https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-sru/+subscribedbugs, which is open in my browser, so you probably only need to remind me if it isn't done in say 12 hours' time [07:58] cjwatson: Okay, sounds fine. [07:59] good morning [07:59] <_ion> Good evening. [08:00] good morning dholbach [08:00] hey mvo === Hobbsee [n=IceChat7@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180067210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@pD9E2680C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lastnode [n=lastnode@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@pD9E2680C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@pD9E2680C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:25] <_ion> I took a look at the xorg roadmap; apparently the input hotplug functionality is going to be included in 7.3 (released 2007-05). Will the functionality be patched to the feisty xorg? According to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=971, it's already implemented and merged into the 7.3 development repository. [08:25] Freedesktop bug 971 in Input/Core "Input device hotplug" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed] === dholbach_ [n=daniel@pD9E2680C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:42] cjwatson: how do you decide if a programme should be marked as recommends instead of depends in the seeds? === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === orion2012_ [n=orion@cpe-70-114-30-76.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === olemke [n=olemke@193.10.130.20] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === malcc [n=malcolm@host86-135-237-55.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/session] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=spacehob@host-84-9-50-78.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180067210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:22] Riddell: judgement call based on whether you believe it should still be called the "Kubuntu desktop" (or whatever) if people remove it [09:24] that makes sense [09:24] hey sivang [09:24] sivang: did you do the tray transparency patch for ekiga? [09:28] cjwatson: I've uploaded maxima (the second half of bug #43150's fix) to dapper-proposed, and it's awaiting approval. It's just a rebuild, so can you please let it through? [09:28] Malone bug 43150 in gcl "[SRU] maxima frontends fail to connect" [Undecided,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/43150 === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@88-107-4-166.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lloydinho_ [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cypher1 [i=cypher1@nat/hp/session] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cassidy [n=cassidy@host-213-189-171-21.brutele.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seeker` [n=cjo20@ip-62-105-182-26.dsl.twang.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === predius [n=predius@200.121.172.254] has joined #ubuntu-devel === admin123 [n=user@81.58.38.138] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:50] mvo: could you look over kubuntu-feisty-language-selector for approval? [09:51] Riddell: sure [09:59] cjwatson: hm, are you already finished with the open syncs? in that case you missed some of mine, banshee, banshee-official-plugins, ipod-sharp and libipoddevice :( [10:01] slomo: the archive team will get to the syncs as soon as possible; please don't nag people about it. Assuming the archive team is subscribed, they won't be lost. === apokryphos [n=apokryph@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:03] slomo: correct. [10:04] slomo: I know I didn't do all of them. [10:05] cjwatson: ok, sorry... === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/session] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:18] c === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:18] as if my body clock and general sense of what day it is wasn't screwed up enough, LWN has come out a day early! === orion2012 [n=orion@cpe-70-114-30-76.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:22] I think they announced that in the previous issue (due to Thanksgiving) === herzi [n=herzi@kiwi.mediascape.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:24] Keybuk: anything libburn related? :P === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:24] minghua, that is what they want you to think. It was purely to confuse Keybuk, no other purpose at all ;) === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:28] :-) [10:29] elkbuntu: hehe === Yagisan [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@61.9.197.223] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:58] Keybuk: ok for me to do the cdrdao merge (you touched it last)? [10:58] mvo: sure [10:59] thanks [11:01] mvo: we've got some merge? new version? [11:01] Keybuk: should we be fixing initscripts in feisty to use upstart syntax? If so, are there guidelines? [11:02] pygi: merge from the debian version, nothing exciting (1.2.1->1.2.2) [11:03] mvo: ah, oki. [11:03] Keybuk: do you perhaps know how cdrkit bits are starting to sync? [11:03] or rather, have they started to sync ? [11:05] crimsun: packages in main will be using upstart job definitions instead of initscripts, but there are no guidelines yet [11:05] pygi: cdrkit needs the cdrecord ubuntu patch applied [11:06] ok, thanks. [11:08] Keybuk: aha, oki ... [11:08] So, uh, is the idea to drop cdrecord and mkisofs in feisty? [11:09] Amaranth: in favor of cdrkit, for whatever it's worth it [11:09] mkisofs is needed by our CD build tools [11:09] cjwatson: mkisofs is still there ... [11:09] yes I know [11:10] is mkisofs even in feisty? :p [11:10] tho cdrkit won't receive many updates :P [11:10] but I mean that in order for it to be dropped from main in favour of genisofs or whatever from libburn, genisofs needs to be able to replace it [11:10] according to synaptic mkisofs has fallen out of feisty [11:10] Amaranth: right. it'll appear again when cdrkit is uploaded [11:10] cjwatson: I know, we are not talking about replacing with anything yet ^_^ [11:10] Keybuk: Had a chance to test the compiz patch? [11:10] ah [11:10] cdrkit is a GPL version of cdrecord [11:10] mjg59: I don't have a patch from you [11:10] Keybuk: Still? [11:11] pygi: won't receive many updates> good, as far as I'm concerned :) HFS+ support is the only thing I want; aside from that I'd rather that it weren't a moving target ... [11:11] mjg59: it could be in the spam bin, or your mail server could be refusing to talk to mine? [11:11] Keybuk: I sent it to your canonical address [11:11] cjwatson: I know ^_^ You'll get hfs+ in libisofs ;) [11:11] ah, so could be just in the spam bin then [11:11] cjwatson: it's not that they wouldn't like to update cdrkit with new features and things, they just can't :) [11:11] Message-ID: <20061117212419.GA5385@srcf.ucam.org> [11:11] pygi: why can't they? [11:11] cjwatson: no one is able to mess with that sort of code ^_^ [11:12] Keybuk: look above :) [11:12] pygi: you give no reasons for why [11:12] Keybuk: Debian people know that they cannot actually keep the fork... [11:12] why do they know? [11:12] well, because it makes them look bad :) === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:12] why does it? [11:13] they are taking bits from Joerg commits which are under gpl, and apply it to cdrkit/wodim source [11:13] right [11:13] entirely reasonable given that Joerg is a Class-A fuckwit [11:13] no new features or anything, no own work ... nobody can mess with level of such class, low-level scsi, things ... [11:13] Keybuk: true, but Joerg has some valid concerns [11:13] why can't they mess with it? [11:13] it's easy [11:13] Keybuk: linux kernel does have it's limitations when it comes to burning [11:14] Keybuk: it's easy? wow :P [11:14] fortunately the Linux kernel is also open source, so those can be fixed [11:14] I don't think this conversation is going anywhere useful [11:14] it doesn't seem to have hampered burning on Linux to date though [11:14] Keybuk: you really think so? Can I assign you a task of implementing dvd recording in libburn? :) [11:14] mjg59: as always :P [11:14] use dvd+rw-tools? WFM [11:14] Keybuk: that's a fork of cdrecord ^_^ [11:15] I'm still entirely missing your point [11:15] ... and thus somebody clearly managed to hack on it [11:15] no point :P [11:15] burning must be possible under Linux, because there are tools to do it [11:15] also it can't be that hard, given other people have managed to maintain those tools [11:15] Keybuk: two people have managed to maintain these tools [11:15] honestly you're just coming across as a competitor [11:15] Joerg and Andy ... [11:15] which is fair enough, since you *are*, but still [11:16] are you saying that you weren't able to figure it out? [11:16] Keybuk: mkisofs code is such a mess that I even refuse to read that for example [11:16] cjwatson: I havent mentioned libburn in not even a word in this discussion. And it's not about libburn at all... [11:16] pygi: that's hardly relevant if you just look at the kernel interfaces. [11:17] 10:11 < pygi> Keybuk: you really think so? Can I assign you a task of implementing dvd recording in libburn? :) [11:17] cjwatson: well, 'cause he said it's easy :) [11:17] Keybuk: Any sign of that mail? If not, I'll just stick the patch on the web [11:17] mkisofs is not pretty, but it's comprehensible. If I had the time I would be entirely able to mess with it for HFS+ support - I just don't have the time [11:17] mjg59: yup, found it in the spam bin [11:17] and still, only two people in linux history have managed to maintain that kind of tools :) [11:17] Keybuk: Ah, good [11:18] the little hacking I've done on mkisofs wasn't that hard, really. [11:18] Keybuk: If you could give that a go and get back to me about whether it seems to work, that would be great [11:18] mjg59: will give it a go in a bit [11:18] mjg59: btw, does this work on nvidia-glx ? [11:18] pygi: I'd honestly prefer if you stopped bashing on the competitors and put the same effort into writing better code. :) [11:18] pygi: so you can't maintain those kinds of tools? [11:18] pygi: this doesn't bode well for libburn [11:18] Keybuk: Note that, right now, gnome-keybinding-properties disables the wm shortcuts editing if you're not running metacity [11:18] That's something that needs fixing in gnome-keybinding-properties [11:19] Keybuk: Yes, that's what I did the packaging on. Needs a 9000-series driver, though [11:19] Keybuk: you don't get my point ... [11:19] mjg59: we don't have that in edgy [11:19] pygi: clearly [11:19] cjwatson: I don't see cdrkit as competitors, but whatever [11:19] Keybuk: We're not targetting edgy [11:20] cjwatson: ok for me to merge brltty (you touched it last)? [11:20] pygi: the point I'm hearing from you is "I'm not intelligent enough to do this, so I don't think anyone else is either" [11:20] Keybuk: you hear it wrong :) [11:20] mjg59: ah, duh :p [11:20] pygi: then what is your point? [11:20] Keybuk: nothing, lets just forget it :) [11:20] that cdrecord/cdrkit is nonfree as in probably not redistributable? [11:20] pygi: perhaps you should just type it out from A-Z in an e-mail [11:20] siretart: cdrkit is entirely free [11:21] Keybuk: you wish [11:21] that's kinda the point [11:22] from what I hear from zomb/ganneff they still seem to have many problems with the additional restrictions that are on the cdrecord source [11:22] mvo: sure - I was just backporting a change from unstable [11:22] if Ganneff thinks cdrkit is non-free, he's entirely capable of removing it from main himself [11:23] siretart: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debburn/nonameyet/?rev=405&sc=1 [11:23] well, they are currently still negotiating [11:23] given that he's an ftpmaster [11:23] So, situation resolved [11:23] mjg59: interesting. thanks for that link === pygi is over and out [11:24] mjg59: Was your patch to add compiz keybindings to gnome-keybinding-properties? === Amaranth was just looking at that too [11:25] No [11:25] It was to make compiz use the metacity gconf keys [11:26] ah === StevenK wonders if he should add to or open a new sync request if a new Debian release is uploaded. [11:27] what about all the others compiz has? [11:27] StevenK: if the previous one has already been dealt with, please open a new one [11:27] for zoom, scale, etc [11:27] cjwatson: It hasn't, which is why I'm wondering. [11:27] StevenK: just ignore it; pre-UVF we don't care [11:27] we just sync whatever's current [11:28] Sure. [11:28] StevenK: what package? === StevenK will test it anyway, given it's half way through building anyway. [11:28] Keybuk: hat [11:28] I'm ignoring the keybinding-properties stuff for now [11:28] mjg59: hehe, that's actually the part i'm most interested in for beryl [11:28] Well, it's not difficult to implement at all [11:29] Just list the keys that you want to be modifiable [11:29] hat just makes me think of the leader of the Guild of Musicians from Soul Music by Pratchett. [11:29] yeah, the code is pretty simple [11:29] The sad thing is that the design is somewhat non-scalable [11:29] heh [11:30] don't add lots to it ;) [11:31] mjg59: I'm guessing you've run into the fun bug that happens when you suspend while running compiz? [11:33] No [11:33] What fun bug? [11:34] With the nvidia driver you resume to a black screen because the driver doesn't restore the gl context or some such thing [11:34] Amaranth: doesn't restore textures. Iz nvidia bug, buy a better graphics card. [11:34] actually i think only the intel driver does it right [11:35] nvidia binary driver in "shit" shocker [11:35] Mithrandir: it's a laptop :P [11:35] StevenK: I was confused by your comment about the Conflicts in that bug [11:35] Amaranth: *shrug*; not much we can do about binary-only drivers. [11:35] I'm afraid I don't care about whether there are suspend/resume issues with the nvidia binary driver. [11:35] mjg59: Basically you have to kill compiz/beryl and then load it again on resume [11:35] StevenK: you said that the Conflicts change could be dropped because the version in feisty still satisfied the conflicts; but doesn't that mean we need to keep the Conflicts versioning change to avoid breakage? [11:35] mjg59: pretty sure the ati driver has this problem too [11:36] No, nvidia have to fix their drivers [11:36] StevenK: (or else sync/merge the other package first) [11:36] I'm happy to work on the ATI ones [11:36] it did in edgy anyway [11:36] Though I don't actually have any hardware with useful ATI chipses... [11:37] Gah. And Launchpad is 503 at the moment. [11:37] I wonder what SLED does to work around the problem [11:37] Amaranth: probably kills and reloads compiz. [11:37] Mithrandir: Err, I would think XGL would have the same problem [11:38] yes, of course. [11:38] Amaranth: probably nothing; I'm not aware of resume being in their priorities [11:38] can't really kill it [11:38] Keybuk: oh, i suppose [11:38] workstation and all that === dholbach [n=daniel@pD9E2680C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:39] cjwatson: Oh right, because of the Conflicts in 2.05-{5,6} is (<< 2.04-1) which still basically does what the package in edgy did. === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:40] but: [11:40] libghc6-hat-dev | 2.04-0ubuntu4 | feisty/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc === Mithrandir wonders when launchpad will be back [11:40] StevenK: so your proposal means that it'll conflict when it previously didn't, surely? [11:40] oh, except that that package comes from the hat source package === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:41] StevenK: ok, never mind, I guess it'll work once synced [11:41] Yup. [11:41] cjwatson: I tested the upgrade path of the package from edgy, it worked. === cjwatson nods, sorry, missed one crucial piece of the puzzle [11:42] cjwatson: It's fine. [11:44] I suppose I ought not to try supermirror pushes while LP is down [11:44] Heh [11:44] mind you, pulls seem to work just fine === ivoks [n=ivoks@wall2.grad.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@63.233-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === noela [n=mutterle@213.60.79.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cybervegan [n=andy@84-43-92-246.ppp.onetel.net.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@200164208193.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:49] hello guys. i've got a question about mono in the light of the MS/Nov deal and the fact that java is now GPL... === zch [n=manuel@85-124-232-137.work.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:52] cybervegan: We've had a functional GPLed implementation of Java for some time [11:54] mjg59, yes, i understand that (tho i've had hassles with getting it working in the past) but i'm more interested in the stance on mono now [11:54] What stance? It's in main, we ship software that uses it [11:55] The presence or absence of Java doesn't change that [11:56] mono is in fact in our default install [11:56] mjg59, i'm a keen ubuntu user, currently running dapper on quite a few machines === Yagisan_ [n=Yagisan@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #ubuntu-devel === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:58] microsoft is making nasty noises about their "ip" - sort of implicating mono, not being specific enough as usual, so as to create FUD [11:59] we have no fear, we're entirely certain in our steps and move forward without any doubt :) [11:59] cybervegan: If we believe that we (or our users) are likely to be sued, we won't ship an item of software. [11:59] cybervegan: we'll deal with it if and when it becomes definite [11:59] cybervegan: but we aren't going to be scared off by FUD [11:59] interestingly, in this case, MS would likely have to sue Novell as the authors of Mono [12:00] their patent licence games can't apply, because they explicitly didn't grand the licence to Novell, just Novell's users [12:00] it's all very silly really [12:00] hmm. in the uk we are of course "immune" from the broken us patent system [12:00]