[01:00] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[03:52] <jamesh> stub: I haven't received any bug mail since the rollout
[03:54] <kiko-zzz> stub, same here.
[03:55] <jamesh> stub: also, it should be safe to switch bugz.launchpad.net back to bugs.launchpad.net -- the TTL on the record was just 1 hour
[05:07] <mpt> kiko-zzz, check out https://launchpad.net/products/shan
[05:19] <jamesh> mpt: is that better or worse than using the spec tracker to submit uuencoded patches?
[05:21] <jamesh> mpt: the text is a copy of https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/1922/comments/2
[05:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  
[05:24] <poningru> is it possible to create a team under another team?
[05:25] <poningru> like I want to create a press team under the marketing team
[05:26] <mpt> jamesh, I know, I was pointing it out to kiko because in bug 1922 he thought it was sivang, but I'm pretty sure it's not
[05:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1922
[05:30] <poningru> so anyone?
[05:31] <jamesh> poningru: yes.  A team can be a member of another team
[05:31] <poningru> ok cool thanks
[05:32] <jamesh> so if team A is a member of team B, then all of team A's members are effectively members of team B
[05:32] <jamesh> (for purposes of security, notification, etc)
[05:32] <poningru> so there is no way to do tree style team management?
[05:32] <jamesh> I thought I just said that it is possible.
[05:33] <poningru> but thats not exactly the same though...
[05:33] <poningru> meh this is good enough
[05:33] <jamesh> poningru: can you describe what you want exactly?
[05:34] <jamesh> you might be thinking about the membership in the wrong direction
[05:35] <poningru> yeah probably... I didnt really think this through
[05:35] <poningru> just was wondering why there is no ... "create team under this team" link...
[05:35] <jamesh> if the press team is meant to be composed of the marketing team plus some other people, then just make the marketing team a member of the press team
[05:35] <poningru> but your way makes sense
[05:36] <poningru> no the former
[05:36] <jamesh> so all press team members should be marketing team members?
[05:36] <jamesh> in that case, make the press team a member of marketing team
[05:36] <poningru> yes
[05:37] <poningru> yeah thats what I am gonna do
[05:37] <poningru> thanks
[05:37] <poningru> :)
[05:50] <SteveA> good morning
[05:59] <jml> morning
[06:00] <SteveA> stub: got sometime to chat about beta.lp.net ?
[06:00] <SteveA> hi jml 
[06:00] <SteveA> jml: how long are you around for today?
[06:00] <jml> SteveA: another four or five hours probably.
[06:01] <SteveA> ok, how about we have a call in 3.5 hrs?
[06:01] <jml> SteveA: sounds good
[06:01] <lifeless> SteveA: I'd like to have a voice call about the TBR proposal
[06:02] <SteveA> lifeless: sure.  nowish or later?
[06:02] <SteveA> jml: deal.
[06:02] <lifeless> SteveA: Nowish would be better
[06:03] <SteveA> lifeless: I can do 10 mins time
[06:03] <lifeless> ok
[06:03] <SteveA> at 15 mins past hr
[06:03] <lifeless> ok, skype
[06:03] <lifeless> ?
[06:04] <SteveA> ok
[06:15] <stub> SteveA: ok
[06:16] <lifeless> SteveA: your skype is offline apparently
[06:17] <stub> SteveA: ok
[06:19] <mpt> hi SteveA 
[06:34] <ajmitch> has a bug been filed about the lack of bug mail (at least for ubuntu)
[06:36] <mpt> no
[06:36] <mpt> (Or if it has, it's not in the malone product)
[06:42] <crimsun> right, I see James has mentioned it in passing at least: 21:52 < jamesh> stub: I haven't received any bug mail since the rollout
[06:42] <stub> Its currently blocked on someone with root on the relevant boxes having a look at the logs.
[06:54] <mpt> Ah, but it's a pleasure to be able to modifier+click on the location bar links now, and for them not to jump around on every page load
[06:54] <mpt> Well done SteveA 
[06:54] <stub> I've just sent in an rt request so it won't get dropped (by our end at least)
[07:04] <spiv> mpt: ooh, finally
[07:05] <mpt> wha!
[07:06] <mpt> jamesh, you landed FormLayout on mainline?
[07:07] <mpt> Mainline's page layout isn't wide enough to handle it :-)
[07:07] <mpt> (that was supposed to be ":-(" )
[07:08] <jamesh> mpt: just make your browser window a bit wider
[07:09] <jamesh> mpt: in the long run, we should revise the labels we're using for the form widgets
[07:10] <jamesh> it looks fine with a 2560 pixel wide browser window
[07:10] <mpt> heh
[07:10] <mpt> Sorry, I mistakenly assumed you were going to land it on ui-one-zero only
[07:10] <jamesh> actually, it looks a bit weird if I stretch it that wide :)
[07:11] <jamesh> maximising a 2560 pixel wide window makes it smaller with metacity ...
[07:17] <SteveA> can we make the form layout choices a config option?
[07:17] <SteveA> or some kind of in-code option
[07:17] <SteveA> so we can turn it on only on the 1.0 branch?
[07:18] <jamesh> mpt: are there particular forms/page sizes that cause problems?
[07:19] <jamesh> things looked okay when I was testing it
[07:21] <jamesh> mpt: currently launchpad.css has "label { white-space: nowrap; }" which exacerbates the problem on smaller screens
[07:28] <SteveA> mpt: I shall fix bug 72831
[07:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72831 in launchpad "Left-hand menu is inconsistent with the latest roll-out" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72831
[07:28] <SteveA> weird... police cars here sound like a fairground ride
[07:28] <mpt> jamesh, I was looking at the bug edit page in particular
[07:29] <mpt> SteveA, are you sure they're not ice cream trucks?
[07:29] <mpt> jamesh, the "separated by whitespace" could go in a hint underneath
[07:39] <jamesh> mpt: yeah.  That does look a lot better
[07:40] <mpt> SteveA, do you have time to explain a little about TALES?
[07:40] <mpt> I've read the relevant part of the specification and it doesn't help
[07:41] <mpt> I want to set a class on an element if some other attribute has been defined in an ancestor element
[07:41] <mpt> <tal:layout define="columns1 default">
[07:41] <mpt>    ...
[07:42] <mpt>       <div tal:attributes="something if columns1 is set, and something else if it's not">
[07:43] <jamesh> mpt: with python 2.4, the closes you can do is tal:attributes="class python:columns1 and value_if_true or value_if_false"
[07:44] <jamesh> python 2.5 lets you write it as "value_if_true if condition else value_if_false", but that is not an option for LP at the moment
[07:44] <mpt> ah, nifty
[07:46] <mpt> jamesh, that works when the variable is set, but it gives "NameError: name 'columns1' is not defined' if it isn't
[07:46] <jamesh> yep.
[07:47] <jamesh> are you using macros or something?
[07:47] <jamesh> where the tal:attributes may be evaluated with or without columns1 set?
[07:48] <mpt> main-template.pt contains conditional stuff based on whether columns1 is set
[07:48] <mpt> tal:condition="columns1|nothing"
[07:48] <mpt> Then other templates have <tal:layout define="columns1 default"> as their first line
[07:49] <jamesh> mpt: okay.  Just do something like this then:
[07:49] <mpt> But in this case, I don't want a section that's there or not there, I just want it to have a different class=
[07:49] <jamesh> <div tal:define="columns1_or_none columns1|nothing" tal:attributes="class ...">
[07:49] <jamesh> using columns_1_or_none
[07:51] <mpt> ooh, magic
[07:51] <mpt> thank you jamesh
[08:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72933 in rosetta "d4x translation template missing" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72933
[08:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72939 in malone "Missing newline in bug details box if bug is flagged as security" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72939
[08:22] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72831 in launchpad "Left-hand menu is inconsistent with the latest roll-out" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72831
[08:22] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72838 in launchpad "testbrowser sets HTTP_REFERER to the string 'localhost'" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72838
[08:22] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72848 in soyuz "Description field format features are probably destroyed when we parse the control file" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72848
[08:22] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72849 in launchpad "redirection should redirect to an absolute URL even when called with a relative one" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72849
[08:23] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72866 in launchpad-support-tracker "My Requests report OOPses" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72866
[08:23] <mpt> heh
[09:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72977 in launchpad-bazaar "Instructions for hosting branches should be on product Code page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72977
[09:14] <Keybuk> stub: so I have bug mail from yesterday
[09:14] <Keybuk> and from this morning
[09:14] <Keybuk> but appear to be missing any from overnight
[09:15] <stub> Keybuk: It should all be in a queue somewhere.
[09:16] <Keybuk> ok, so it's not a fifo?
[09:16] <stub> Keybuk: we had about 24 hours worth backed up
[09:17] <stub> I don't know if our end is a fifo, and the relays between Launchpad and you are probably not fifos.
[09:30] <carlos> morning!
[09:34] <SteveA> jml: be with you shortly
[09:52] <seb128> hi
[09:52] <seb128> what is the way to open a backport task now?
[09:53] <seb128> there used to be an option to the left column of the bug page for that
[09:53] <seb128> seems it has been dropped
[09:55] <BjornT> seb128: which bug are you looking at? i can see the link for opening a backport task.
[09:55] <seb128> I can see it too now
[09:55] <seb128> in fact I was browsing https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-vfs2/+bug/71586
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71586 in gnome-vfs "Spontaneous SJ Death" [Unknown,Unknown]  
[09:55] <seb128> I added an upstream task
[09:55] <seb128> that moved me to the upstream product context
[09:56] <seb128> which don't have the option
[09:56] <seb128> it's pretty confusing
[09:56] <seb128> s/it/that
[09:57] <BjornT> ah, right. yes, we probably should display the backport link no matter what context you're in.
[09:57] <seb128> I would say you should not silently change the context when somebody add an upstream task
[09:57] <seb128> should I open a bug about that?
[09:59] <BjornT> yeah, that'd be good. i agree that we shouldn't change the context when adding new tasks.
[09:59] <seb128> thanks
[10:03] <seb128> BjornT: https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/72981
[10:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72981 in malone "adding a task should not change the context" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[10:09] <BjornT> thanks seb128 
[10:10] <seb128> np
[10:11] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72981 in malone "adding a task should not change the context" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72981
[12:13] <Keybuk> who do I need to speak to about that, and where do they live? :p
[12:17] <spiv> Keybuk: bzr annotate blames kiko
[12:19] <Keybuk> MiB is fucking stupid
[12:19] <malcc> Take it up with the IEEE
[12:19] <Keybuk> MB is well understood, and only irritates hard drive manufacturers
[12:21] <malcc> It doesn't irritate them - they *love* how the general use and the official one are different, allowing them to claim larger drives without getting into trouble
[12:21] <SteveA> Men in black...
[12:22] <SteveA> Keybuk: I already lost point on bzr, as documented in some bug somewhere
[12:23] <Keybuk> "lost point" ?
[12:26] <SteveA> lost that point
[12:26] <SteveA> bzr uses MiB etc.
[12:26] <SteveA> which I found odd
[12:26] <SteveA> seeing as gnome appeared not to at the time
[12:27] <SteveA> and gnome is my benchmark of open source usability thinking etc.
[12:27] <jamesh> "bzr info"'s display of repository size
[12:28] <SteveA> jamesh: did you get any further with seeing if there's a way to get a brazilian visa fast?
[12:29] <jamesh> SteveA: no.  kiko didn't have any ideas other than including a letter asking them to handle it quickly.
[12:30] <SteveA> I'm not confident about that.
[12:30] <SteveA> So, we should delay that meeting for a time we can be sure you can get a visa.
[12:30] <jamesh> SteveA: last time I got a visa it took about the quoted length of time, which is why I am not confident it would make a difference
[12:30] <jamesh> most likely the Canbera consulate is one or two people working part time
[12:31] <jamesh> (for visa matters and the like)
[12:31] <SteveA> niemeyer: so, we need to look at dates next year for your meeting with jamesh.
[12:31] <SteveA> I don't think we should consider a different location.
[12:32] <niemeyer> SteveA: Right
[12:33] <niemeyer> jamesh: Since you need the visa anyway, it might be interesting to try getting it ASAP
[12:33] <niemeyer> If for some miracle they handle it quickly, we can do it soonish
[12:33] <jamesh> niemeyer: I need an itinerary before I can apply for the visa
[12:34] <niemeyer> jamesh: You can get an itinerary before confirming you're going to travel
[12:36] <jamesh> iirc, Brazil generally makes the entrance requirements roughly equivalent to what the other country requires for Brazilian citizens
[12:41] <jamesh> niemeyer: I'd prefer if we could organise a time when I know I'll be able to get a visa
[12:44] <niemeyer> jamesh: Of course
[12:45] <niemeyer> jamesh: Februrary 5th-9th?
[12:46] <mhb> hi everyone
[12:46] <jamesh> that'd be fine.  The week before would also be fine.
[12:48] <mhb> I'd like to know if there has been some progress on bug 68014
[12:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[12:49] <mhb> Carlos posted on the ML that it's going to take days, but it's been a month now
[12:49] <SteveA> mhb: have you seen a problem with reverting translations recently?
[12:50] <mhb> SteveA: IIRC this is why the upload is disabled in Rosetta
[12:50] <mhb> completely
[12:50] <mhb> isn't it?
[12:50] <carlos> mhb: we are in the process, the fact that we had the UDS and another conference in the middle didn't help to finish it, but we are already showing who approved translations, so the only missing part is to enable again the upload form (and it's blocked on me finishing a better merge algorithm that will detect conflicts)
[12:51] <mhb> carlos: I'm glad to hear that
[12:51] <SteveA> mhb: you can also request from a rosetta admin to do an upload
[12:51] <SteveA> hi matthewrevell 
[12:51] <matthewrevell> SteveA: Hi!
[12:51] <mpt> Hello Mr Revell!
[12:51] <mhb> carlos: upload is the best way to correct mistakes in complex translations (because there is no search) so that's why I'd like it ASAP
[12:51] <matthewrevell> mpt: Howdy :)
[12:52] <carlos> mhb: agreed, It's my top priority now that I'm back at the office.
[12:52] <mpt> and welcome to Canonical's Matthew Brigade
[12:52] <mhb> carlos: so it's going to be possible before December?
[12:52] <carlos> mhb: well, I hope it will be possible next week, it's not too complex what's missing, it was just that I hadn't time to do it
[12:53] <matthewrevell> mpt: Yeah, I've heard that I'm about to become one of an increasing number of Matthews at the company.
[12:53] <SteveA> matthewrevell: we should arrange to meet up sometime
[12:53] <carlos> mhb: that planning includes our usual QA checks before rolling out it on production
[12:54] <mhb> carlos: I'd be really happy if you managed to enable it next week
[12:54] <carlos> mhb: anyway, as SteveA pointed, you can request us to do an upload for you if you have anything ready
[12:55] <mhb> carlos: I can do most of it by hand
[12:56] <carlos> ok
[12:57] <kiko-zzz> heeeeeellllo
[12:57] <mhb> carlos: I'm counting on you. 
[12:57] <kiko-zzz> hello
[12:57] <SteveA> sleeptalker!
[12:57] <kiko-zzz> I had my drugs
[12:57] <kiko-zzz> I rode my bike
[12:57] <kiko-zzz> I am ready for the world-famous
[12:58] <kiko-zzz> LAUNCHPAD MEETING
[12:58] <carlos> mhb: ok, thanks
[12:59] <carlos> kiko: just wait 1 minute ;-)
[01:00] <SteveA> Launchpad Meeting time
[01:00] <kiko> so it is
[01:00] <kiko> welcome flacoste 
[01:00] <SteveA> welcome to the launchpad development meeting
[01:00] <kiko> first off: are you pumped?
[01:00] <SteveA> who is here today?
[01:00] <mpt> me
[01:00] <carlos> me
[01:00] <kiko> me
[01:00] <cprov> me
[01:00] <danilos> me
[01:00] <jamesh> me
[01:00] <salgado> me
[01:01] <malcc> me
[01:01] <flacoste> me
[01:01] <BjornT> me
[01:01] <SteveA> we are *so* pimped.
[01:01] <malcc> Many a true word
[01:01] <spiv> me
[01:01] <SteveA> ddaa is on vac
[01:01] <SteveA> stub sends apologies.
[01:01] <mpt> Welcome raraavis 
[01:01] <matthewrevell> :)
[01:02] <mpt> When do you start, matthewrevell?
[01:02] <danilos> jordi: ping
[01:02] <matthewrevell> mpt: Next Thursday.
[01:02] <SteveA> let's hope this doesn't turn into a UN sanctioned war zone
[01:02] <mpt> cool
[01:02] <matthewrevell> 29th
[01:02] <kiko> raraavis, a toast to observers <wink>
[01:02] <raraavis> :D
[01:02] <SteveA> ok
[01:02] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[01:02] <SteveA> * Roll call * Agenda
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:02] <jordi> pong, hello
[01:02] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Time-based releases (Steve)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:03] <SteveA> 
[01:03] <SteveA> next meeting -- same time next thursday?
[01:03] <SteveA> any objections, speak now
[01:03] <SteveA> 5
[01:03] <SteveA> 4
[01:03] <SteveA> 3
[01:03] <SteveA> 2
[01:03] <SteveA> 1
[01:03] <SteveA> thanks
[01:03] <salgado> SteveA, matsubara is on vacation too
[01:03] <mpt> (usual grumble)
[01:03] <SteveA> someone with irc-fu please update the channel title
[01:03] <SteveA> thanks malcc 
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:04] <SteveA> who's hot and who's merely lukewarm?
[01:04] <mpt> cold
[01:04] <malcc> I'm positively chilly
[01:04] <salgado> I'm hot
[01:04] <mpt> but I will be up to date by tomorrow
[01:04] <jamesh> cold
[01:04] <flacoste> hot
[01:04] <SteveA> cold
[01:04] <cprov> cold (1 week behind)
[01:04] <jordi> I have sent many of my pending reports, some old ones are missing, but generally better now
[01:04] <danilos> cold myself
[01:04] <BjornT> hot
[01:04] <kiko> freezing
[01:04] <kiko> but getting warmer
[01:04] <kiko> I am waiting for niemeyer's new version of gtimelog packages.
[01:05] <carlos> cold (I think I owe the ones from the week before UDS)
[01:05] <danilos> kiko: does it do the timelogs without any intervention? :)
[01:05] <spiv> warm -- I just sent the days since allhands, but I have stuff missing from before then.
[01:05] <kiko> danilos, no, but it flashes what you are doing in the OSD!
[01:05] <SteveA> all done?
[01:05] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[01:06] <SteveA>  * spiv to finish the damn `__eq__` for database objects action item
[01:06] <SteveA>  * ddaa to propose updating of our wikis to the shiny new moin, somewhere his request won't be forgotten
[01:06] <spiv> sqlobject __eq__: kiko reviewed my branch, thanks!
[01:06] <spiv> I realised the proposed branch does not trap invalid cross-transaction comparisions, which was the original problem that brought this mess to our attention,
[01:06] <spiv> but at the moment I have only failing tests rather than a fix.  I haven't looked at this since before allhands, so I don't remember more details atm.
[01:06] <SteveA> I don't recall ddaa doing this.  this should remain on the agenda until next week when ddaa is here.
[01:06] <kiko> spiv, most welcome.
[01:06] <kiko> SteveA, that request should go to RT.
[01:06] <kiko> (ddaa's)
[01:07] <SteveA> kiko: do we want it?
[01:07] <spiv> kiko: well, upgrading moin isn't exactly trivial
[01:07] <spiv> kiko: it involves porting the authserver hackery to the new version.
[01:07] <kiko> spiv, catching cross-xn comparisons shouldn't be too difficult if we can inspect the object's conn.
[01:07] <SteveA> I don't find it important.  I think we should wait for openid stuff.
[01:07] <spiv> I hear that newer versions of moin are more modular in this respect, but it's still non-trivial work to assess and then do.
[01:08] <kiko> SteveA, well, I was commenting more on the process. I don't care much about moin myself but if developers think the new version will be more efficient, it should be considered
[01:08] <spiv> kiko: that's what I thought, and yet my obvious attempts are still failing tests.
[01:08] <SteveA> kiko: I agree, but I think we should *consider* it before getting an RT request put in for it.
[01:08] <kiko> spiv, if you want to walk me through the tests and code I might be able to help
[01:08] <SteveA> I want ddaa to be here to consider it with us, as he proposed it.
[01:08] <SteveA> so, deferred until next week.
[01:08] <kiko> SteveA, right -- if it's still up for grabs then it needs discussion before anything else. I have seen no launchpad email on this topic.
[01:08] <jamesh> spiv: if only we could use a third party auth module for moin :)
[01:09] <SteveA>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick
[01:09] <SteveA> did this happen?
[01:09] <flacoste> not to my knowledge
[01:09] <jamesh> I don't think we ended up discussing this at allhands
[01:09] <SteveA> I don't think so either.
[01:09] <SteveA> so, it stays until next week, and someone should add it to the review meeting agenda.
[01:09] <SteveA> jamesh: would you do that please?
[01:10] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[01:10] <jamesh> SteveA: okay
[01:10] <SteveA> matsubara isnt' here
[01:10] <SteveA> did he provide an oops report to anyone?
[01:10] <salgado> not that I know of
[01:10] <kiko> SteveA, I don't think allhands left him time for that. I can do an impromptu one
[01:10] <SteveA> I noticed more than usual exceptions
[01:10] <SteveA> so, I'm concerned
[01:10] <kiko> ok.
[01:10] <kiko> let's look at the oopses.
[01:10] <kiko> first one I've never seen before:
[01:11] <kiko>    8 AssertionError: badly formed entity: u'&amp'
[01:11] <kiko>        3 https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/66873/+index
[01:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66873 in Baltix "Flash 9 beta" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:11] <kiko> BjornT, does this look like something you've seen? If not, can you report a bug on it?
[01:11] <kiko> -------------------------------------
[01:11] <kiko> next up is 8 search_text oopses that flacoste fixed yesterday, but stub's questioning if it is worth cherrypicking
[01:11] <jamesh> kiko: that's probably from the new word break code.
[01:11] <kiko> I think it's worth it.
[01:12] <kiko> jamesh, hmmmm. can you look into it, if you think you're a better eye for it?
[01:12] <kiko> flacoste, it is a trivial patch
[01:12] <kiko> and we will be oopsing for the next forseeable weeks
[01:12] <flacoste> very so
[01:12] <kiko> so stub (grrr where is stub) please roll it out.
[01:12] <kiko> flacoste, I'll email to request this explicitly.
[01:12] <kiko> moving on
[01:13] <kiko> -------------------------------------
[01:13] <SteveA> kiko: we have a procedure for this.  I want to check we're following it, or not following it for a good reason.
[01:13] <kiko> we have an odd instantiation of selectresults in rosetta-index
[01:13] <SteveA> Is there a critical bug related to the oopses + cherrypick request?
[01:13] <flacoste> SteveA: there is
[01:13] <kiko> SteveA, yes.
[01:13] <SteveA> does the rollout involve a database patch?
[01:13] <flacoste> bug 72866
[01:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72866 in launchpad-support-tracker "My Requests report OOPses" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72866
[01:14] <flacoste> SteveA: no database patch
[01:14] <SteveA> then I support a cherrypick asap
[01:14] <SteveA> I shall comment so in the bug
[01:14] <kiko> SteveA, thanks. I think emailing stub directly will do the job -- do you want to take the matter in your hands? :)
[01:14] <kiko> I was ready to do it.
[01:15] <carlos> kiko: what's the problem with Rosetta? do you have an OOPS?
[01:15] <kiko> so moving on once again
[01:15] <kiko> -------------------------------------
[01:15] <kiko>    6 ForbiddenAttribute: ('__call__', <sqlobject.main.SelectResults object at INSTANCE-ID>)
[01:15] <kiko>     0% from search bots, 100% referred from local sites
[01:15] <kiko>        4 https://translations.launchpad.net/projects/ddtp-packages/+rosetta-index
[01:15] <kiko>         OOPS-326A859, OOPS-326C867, OOPS-326C868, OOPS-326C869
[01:15] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326A859
[01:15] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326C867
[01:15] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326C868
[01:15] <Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/326C869
[01:15] <SteveA> kiko / flacoste: is that request on the LaunchpadProductionStatus page?
[01:15] <kiko> carlos, can you please check this issue, find an existing bug, report one if not, and get a fix cherry-pick-requested?
[01:15] <flacoste> SteveA: it is
[01:15] <kiko> SteveA, YES
[01:15] <SteveA> awesome
[01:16] <kiko> SteveA, maybe ask us out of bound on this, you are on a late train :-P
[01:16] <SteveA> I'll talk with stub + mail him
[01:16] <kiko> jamesh, BjornT: confirm above?
[01:16] <SteveA> kiko: I want to demonstrate the new procedure, which was discussed last meeting
[01:16] <kiko> carlos, confirm above?
[01:16] <kiko> SteveA, you can do that as a separate topic. this is the oops report. :)
[01:16] <SteveA> thank you flacoste 
[01:16] <carlos> kiko: sure
[01:16] <kiko> the remaining oopses are trivial ones (1 oops each)
[01:16] <carlos> +rosetta-index?
[01:17] <carlos> what's that?
[01:17] <kiko> carlos, I'm not sure what that is -- requires investigation
[01:17] <kiko> moving on.
[01:17] <kiko> -------------------------------------
[01:17] <carlos> ok
[01:17] <BjornT> kiko: i suggest jamesh to fix it, since he wrote the code
[01:17] <kiko> in terms of timeouts, +translations has dropped from our second-topmost oopser to an occasional oopser
[01:17] <kiko> thanks to stub for producing the DB work that led to this
[01:17] <jamesh> kiko: I think I know what is causing it, and how to reproduce.  I'll look at fixing it tomorrow.
[01:17] <SteveA> eturn len(list(self.context.products())) > 0
[01:18] <SteveA> aha
[01:18] <kiko> jamesh, thank you very much
[01:18] <SteveA> it looks like a method converted to a property
[01:18] <kiko> right
[01:18] <SteveA> or a property being incorrectly treated as a method.  with no pagetest!
[01:18] <kiko> +translate continues timing out. I will do work on this but not in the next 15 days.
[01:18] <jamesh> kiko: I think it affects URLs ending in &
[01:19] <spiv> Worse, that code has a comment saying:     # XXX: this code is broken -- see bug 47769
[01:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47769 in rosetta "The /rosetta/projects/ubuntu page is hopelessly busted" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47769
[01:19] <kiko> the other pages that do time out do so in a much smaller proportion
[01:19] <SteveA> also, I don't understand why we're doing a len(list(...)) there.  but I'll save that until later.
[01:19] <SteveA> kiko: yay for +translate fixes
[01:19] <kiko> SteveA, it's old code.
[01:19] <SteveA> or rather +translations fixes
[01:19] <kiko> just for some background
[01:19] <kiko> +translate now oopses 230 times a day
[01:19] <kiko> the second most frequent oopser, which is the distro page, oopsed 9 times yesterday.
[01:20] <kiko> so if we fix +translate (finally) we will have a much more manageable performance challenge
[01:20] <kiko> one thing that I am asking myself is whether it is worth putting work into optimizing +translate before implementing the rosetta DB refactorings stub and carlos and danilos the tall one discussed at the allhands
[01:20] <SteveA> any more oops report?
[01:21] <kiko> that should be discussed further
[01:21] <kiko> one sec
[01:21] <danilos> kiko: it depends on our timeframe for db optimizations, imo
[01:21] <kiko> SteveA, and others:
[01:22] <SteveA> danilos: perhaps schedule an irc meeting specifically on this issue
[01:22] <kiko> for some perspective, we served 535471 hits yesterday
[01:22] <kiko> of those, exactly 300 oopsed
[01:22] <danilos> SteveA: ok, makes sense, and we'd probably like to have you there as well
[01:22] <kiko> that means we have an oops ration of 0.05%
[01:22] <kiko> ratio, sorry
[01:22] <danilos> wow kiko, that's pretty good success rate!
[01:22] <mpt> 99.943% successful hits
[01:22] <kiko> which I think is pretty enviable.
[01:22] <mpt> but successful page loads would be more interesting
[01:23] <mpt> because non-oopsing icons aren't difficult
[01:23] <kiko> we served 366770 pages
[01:23] <kiko> which means 0.08% oops rate
[01:23] <kiko> again, fabulous, so congratulations to our great team
[01:24] <kiko> -------- end of impromptu oops report --------
[01:24] <SteveA> thank you kiko
[01:24] <danilos> (no high-fiving, pumping up, or hugging allowed in celebrations ;))
[01:24] <kiko> you can hug your.. err.. keyboard
[01:24] <SteveA> that's three nines, I think.  next, let's go for four nines :-)
[01:25] <SteveA> carlos: that'll be mpt with the bugs report
[01:25] <carlos> ;-)
[01:25] <SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
[01:25] <mpt> There are 14 known Critical bugs in Launchpad recorded as being without released fixes. They are:
[01:25] <mpt>  * Bug #1922 (Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
[01:25] <mpt> This bug has been around for months, and Launchpad has many less helpful instructions. Why is this one suddenly Critical?
[01:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1922
[01:25] <danilos> ok carlos, that was a good joke... and this is a bad joke... ok, a good joke... and a bad joke...
[01:26] <mpt>  * Bug #2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Fix Committed, kiko
[01:26] <mpt> kiko, should there be a new bug report on further reducing the number of timeouts?
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
[01:26] <carlos> ;-)
[01:26] <kiko> mpt, well, I'm not sure. what do you think?
[01:26] <mpt>  * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, In Progress, carlos
[01:26] <mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Need to support KDE like plural forms), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
[01:26] <mpt>  * Bug #68014 (Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values), Critical, In Progress, carlos
[01:26] <mpt> carlos, just before the meeting you were saying 44214 should be a few days away. Tell us about the others. :-)
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like plural forms" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
[01:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[01:26] <mpt> kiko, I think it's nasty, but not Critical
[01:26] <kiko> mpt, about the first bug, I think it's our most-duped bug
[01:27] <kiko> mpt, I'll reduce it to high. I just wish it got done.
[01:27] <mpt> Only four duplicates?
[01:27] <carlos> mpt: bug #44214 has a failing test that prevented me to send the answer to the review email, but should be finished today and I hope I will get the final OK to merge
[01:27] <mpt> interesting
[01:27] <danilos> mpt: bug 46982 is still blocked on me
[01:27] <jordi> blocked on what?
[01:27] <jordi> err
[01:27] <carlos> mpt: bug #68014 will be finished between today and tomorrow
[01:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[01:27] <kiko> BjornT, if I reduce bug 1922 to high, will you still do it? :-)
[01:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1922 in malone "Unhelpful "Invalid value" error when requesting fix for non-existent package/product" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1922
[01:28] <carlos> jordi: Firefox support adds some infrastructure required for KDE plural forms
[01:28] <jordi> oh I see
[01:28] <BjornT> kiko: sure :) it should be quite easy to fix
[01:28] <kiko> BjornT, thanks, I'd appreciate that. 
[01:28] <SteveA> maybe mpt is having network issues.
[01:28] <jordi> re: fixing translation reverting, woot!
[01:29] <danilos> and I sucked at finishing that up this week so far, though made some good progress yesterday
[01:29] <SteveA> so, when the current discussion is done, we'll move on, and come back to this if mpt is able to return
[01:29] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[01:29] <SteveA> I have notes from stu
[01:29] <danilos> carlos: have we at least confirmed the cause for 68014 to be the import by users?
[01:30] <SteveA> All remaining production systems running breezy where upgraded to dapper
[01:30] <SteveA> yesterday except arctowski. Whoever maintains stuff on that box should
[01:30] <SteveA> coordinate with the admins to get it upgraded too.
[01:30] <SteveA> New launchpad was rolled out at the same time, and all post rollout data
[01:30] <SteveA> migration has been completed.
[01:30] <kiko> danilos, very pertinent question, my own as well
[01:30] <SteveA> There where too glitches with the rollout:
[01:30] <SteveA> - I switched some cronjobs off I normally wouldn't during the rollout, but
[01:30] <SteveA> neglected to switch them back on. This caused bugmail to not be sent out
[01:30] <SteveA> until it was noticed and fixed the next day.
[01:30] <SteveA> - A redirect was not setup from features.launchpad.net to
[01:30] <SteveA> blueprints.launchpad.net, breaking old links.
[01:30] <carlos> danilos: at least, I think there are no reports about this happening again since we disabled the upload form
[01:30] <SteveA> Everything I'm aware of has been resolved. If something is still broken, I
[01:30] <SteveA> am not aware of it.
[01:30] <SteveA> The staging update procedure has been tweaked so there is now much less
[01:30] <SteveA> downtime (just a few minutes plus however long it takes to apply the
[01:30] <SteveA> outstanding database patches).
[01:30] <SteveA> beta.launchpad.net is operational. Code updates are currently being handled
[01:30] <SteveA> manually by SteveA (the automated code update was running, but disabled as
[01:30] <SteveA> SteveA wanted to be able to manually update to arbitrary branches rather
[01:30] <SteveA> than just the rocketfuel/lauchpad/ui-one-zero branch.
[01:30] <SteveA> edge.launchpad.net is ready to go at short notice, but we are deferring that as (IIRC) Steve wants people to start doing most work on the 1.0 UI branch.
[01:30] <SteveA> 
[01:30] <carlos> so I think it's a good sign that we are handling the right problem
[01:31] <SteveA>  that completes stu's production and staging report
[01:31] <kiko> very very nice
[01:31] <danilos> SteveA: so, should we start merging our stuff with 1.0 UI branch, if I got this correctly?
[01:31] <danilos> carlos: ok, lets hope that's fine
[01:31] <SteveA> danilos: I need to do some planning with stuart first.
[01:31] <mpt> So, I hit the wrong button
[01:31] <mpt> Sorry about that
[01:32] <SteveA> mpt: anything else on your bug report report?
[01:32] <mpt> Do we have time for more?
[01:32] <mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko, who discussed this a couple of minutes ago
[01:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
[01:32] <mpt>  * Bug #48948 (dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
[01:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48948 in soyuz "dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48948
[01:32] <mpt> malcc, any progress?
[01:32] <SteveA> mpt: maybe a couple more.
[01:32] <mpt>  * Bug #56618 (Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
[01:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 56618 in malone "Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56618
[01:32] <mpt>  * Bug #64017 (Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
[01:32] <mpt>  * Bug #66562 (BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
[01:32] <mpt> BjornT, I guess all of those have been rolled out?
[01:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64017 in launchpad "Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64017
[01:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 66562 in malone "BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66562
[01:33] <mpt> ok, one more important one
[01:33] <mpt>  * Bug #44238 (Bugs with Unknown status are not included in the bug listings), Critical, Confirmed, kiko
[01:33] <mpt> kiko, why is this Critical?
[01:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44238 in malone "Bugs with Unknown status are not included in the bug listings" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44238
[01:33] <kiko> because I abuse critical?
[01:33] <mpt> ah
[01:33] <danilos> haha
[01:33] <malcc> mpt: Nothing to report on that one; we've still worked around it for feisty and still have a way forward to fix it but haven't done it yet.
[01:33] <jamesh> 66562 is probably released
[01:33] <kiko> malcc, drop it to high with that justification please.
[01:33] <mpt> So *that's* why ancient RFEs suddenly become Critical
[01:34] <mpt> I don't mind it
[01:34] <BjornT> mpt: they should have been rolled out, yes, i'll check to make sure.
[01:34] <jamesh> same for 64017
[01:34] <mpt> as long as it's being done more or less evenly
[01:34] <kiko> mpt, I'm doing it based on people actually complaining
[01:34] <mpt> ok, that's all, thanks SteveA 
[01:34] <SteveA> ok
[01:34] <kiko> on the rationale that that's the tip of the iceberg
[01:34] <SteveA>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
[01:34] <kiko> but I'll drop that one since it's assigned to me
[01:34] <SteveA> no time for discussion here, just reporting please
[01:34] <BjornT> Malone 1.0:
[01:34] <BjornT> upstream-forwarding-workflow: final part has been merged to RF. it could still need a UI review, though.
[01:34] <danilos> Rosetta 1.0 (not really) weekly report:
[01:34] <danilos> - opening edgy for translation: DONE
[01:34] <danilos> - firefox import/export: done, resolving conflicts/cleaning up (I broke regular PO import, now fixing that: some changes due to discussions on UDS, such as alt-msgid usage), putting up for review
[01:34] <danilos> - oo import/export: tests, import implemented, export in progress
[01:34] <danilos> - translation review: in review queue (with the same UI for reviewers
[01:34] <danilos>   and translators, once that's merged, the review specific UI will be
[01:34] <BjornT> series-and-distrorelease-mgmt: the distribution part is implemented (pending code review and testing). the product part was totally broken, but it has been fixed, and is also pending review.
[01:34] <danilos>   implemented)
[01:35] <danilos> - essential docs: no progress this week
[01:35] <BjornT> guided-filebug-form: the UI has been modified as discussed, and it's now pending code review.
[01:35] <BjornT> removing-duplicate-comments: No news, still implemented.
[01:35] <danilos> - search: DB schema changes discussed at UDS
[01:35] <BjornT> malone-essential-docs: No news, still not started.
[01:35] <danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
[01:35] <danilos> - ui fixes: DONE
[01:35] <BjornT> simple-bug-keywords: No news, still implemented.
[01:35] <flacoste> Support^W Answer Tracker 1.0 Status Report
[01:35] <flacoste> ------------------------------------------
[01:35] <flacoste> SupportTrackerWorkflow: in production.
[01:35] <flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: in production. Missing the 'Needs Attention' report.
[01:35] <flacoste> SupportTrackerHelp: 75% completed. Missing Highlights, help on native language support and polish.
[01:35] <flacoste> LocalizedSupportRequests: 1/3 reviewed, 2/3 in review.
[01:35] <flacoste> SupportTrackerRenaming: pending
[01:35] <carlos> kiko: I thought that Critical are the ones that makes you lose data...
[01:35] <kiko> carlos, *shrug* 
[01:35] <salgado> Random Things 1.0
[01:35] <salgado> -------------------------------
[01:35] <salgado> - DirectPersonRegistration: ready to land.
[01:35] <salgado> - SearchingProjects: started
[01:35] <salgado> - PillarGotchis: not started
[01:35] <danilos> carlos: we've got a new definition: critical are those which you want cherry picked ;)
[01:36] <carlos> ;-)
[01:36] <mpt> danilos, no no no
[01:36] <cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =                                                            
[01:36] <cprov> 
[01:36] <cprov>  * PPA: ppa-build-support & ppa-poppy & ppa-publish (cprov, w-i-p)              
[01:36] <cprov>  * Archive Rework: pending review (malcc)                                       
[01:36] <cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtparchive: almost there, pending 3nd step review (cprov)           
[01:36] <cprov>  * Code quality:                                                                
[01:36] <mpt> We went through that last week :-)
[01:36] <cprov>    * NascentUpload first refactoring (kiko, under development)
[01:36] <SteveA> please focus on the current agenda item mpt, carlos
[01:36] <SteveA> danilos and kiko
[01:37] <SteveA> any more 1.0 reports?
[01:37] <SteveA> thanks
[01:37] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[01:37] <kiko> SteveA, let us argue in peace!
[01:37] <SteveA>  /join #launchpad-argument ;-)
[01:37] <kiko> the world needs more peace
[01:37] <kiko> I have no sysadmin requests pending
[01:37] <SteveA> 3
[01:37] <SteveA> 2
[01:37] <SteveA> 1
[01:37] <kiko> and kudos to the sysadmin team for dealing with the ones we had open
[01:37] <SteveA> thanks
[01:37] <kiko> SteveA, is stub on vacation?
[01:37] <kiko> there is a critical issue affecting soyuz in production
[01:37] <SteveA> and for handling the missing redirects from the last rollout quickly
[01:37] <kiko> that needs him looking into
[01:38] <SteveA> stub is unwell this evening
[01:38] <kiko> or lifeless I guess
[01:38] <SteveA> should be around tomorrow morning
[01:38] <SteveA>  * Time-based releases (Steve)
[01:38] <kiko> SteveA, I said /critical production issue/ btw
[01:38] <kiko> SteveA, what's the process for getting help
[01:38] <SteveA> I mailed the launchpad list with a draft spec on time-based releases for launchpad.
[01:39] <SteveA> I had voice calls with mpool and lifeless today about it, and I'll incorporate their comments.
[01:39] <SteveA> Please everyone read it and offer your comments and suggestions.
[01:39] <danilos> ok, this is interesting one, SteveA: will we manage to have clear plans with 10-week schedule?
[01:39] <SteveA> kiko: can it wait until after this meeting?
[01:39] <danilos> or you don't want this discussed right now, I guess; ok, I'll email my comments
[01:39] <SteveA> danilos: no time for discussion now.  thanks
[01:39] <SteveA> skipping  * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:39] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:40] <SteveA> please go ahead
[01:40] <danilos> DONE: UDS--Rosetta DB spec, Translation Licensing spec; AllHands, got jetlagged
[01:40] <danilos> TODO: ff for review, OOo export, search, bug fixing
[01:40] <danilos> BLOCKED: no
[01:40] <malcc> DONE: UDS, Allhands, resigned.
[01:40] <malcc> TODO: PPA, handover.
[01:40] <malcc> BLOCKED: No.
[01:40] <BjornT> DONE: UDS, AllHands, finished off malone-guided-filebug and malone-release-management. code reviews.
[01:40] <BjornT> TODO: test malone-release-management properly to ensure it's not broken. code reviews. malone documentation.
[01:40] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[01:40] <mpt> DONE: more 1.0 work
[01:40] <mpt> TODO: Finish 1.0
[01:40] <mpt> BLOCKED: not at the moment
[01:40] <salgado> 2006-11-23
[01:40] <salgado> DONE: UDS/AllHands, email catch-up, started the new 1.0 specs that were assigned to me before UDS.
[01:40] <salgado> TODO: Work on the 1.0 specs and other random things
[01:40] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[01:40] <flacoste> danilos: comments should be appended to the wiki page
[01:40] <jamesh> DONE: allhands, some work on url-utils and bug-import
[01:40] <jamesh> TODO: code review, text-to-html OOPS fix, bug-import work.
[01:40] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[01:40] <carlos> DONE: UDS/AllHands/Holidays
[01:40] <flacoste> DONE: AllHands, finish tt-search-localized-requests, got tt-add-localized-requests accepted
[01:40] <flacoste> TODO: Get *-localized-requests reviewed and land them, rename the support tracker, documentation
[01:40] <flacoste> BLOCKED: reviews of 3 branches
[01:40] <spiv> DONE: AllHands, mostly recovered from SFO flu, some smart server work (starting to build high-level operations!)
[01:40] <cprov> DONE: NoMoreAptFtparchive improvements, ppa-binary-support, ppa-publish         
[01:40] <spiv> TODO: reviews, smart server + supermirror integration
[01:40] <cprov> TODO: ppa-publish, help texts                                    
[01:40] <cprov> BLOCKED: no
[01:40] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[01:40] <SteveA> DONE: allhands meeting, travel, management
[01:40] <SteveA> TODO: arrange beta ui 1.0 server process
[01:40] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[01:40] <SteveA> 
[01:40] <carlos> TODO: bug 68014, TranslationReview, mail
[01:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
[01:41] <carlos> BLOCKED: No
[01:41] <kiko> DONE: flying back, catching up with email, perf reviews
[01:41] <SteveA> spiv: please prepare your sentences in advance, and paste them together into the channel
[01:41] <kiko> TODO: perf reviews, launchpad report, land various patches
[01:41] <kiko> BLOCKED: no
[01:41] <spiv> SteveA: ?
[01:41] <spiv> SteveA: I did.
[01:41] <SteveA> spiv: oh okay
[01:41] <SteveA> they came out very delayed from each other
[01:41] <spiv> Weird.  Not my fault, afaict :)
[01:42] <SteveA> ok, thanks for preparing them
[01:42] <mpt> It doesn't matter if your sentences are delayed, I am quite quick at sorting them now
[01:42] <mpt> (well, doesn't matter for wiki notes purposes)
[01:42] <SteveA> flacoste: you're blocked on code review
[01:42] <SteveA> flacoste: do you have reviewers assigned yet?
[01:42] <SteveA> flacoste: have you been blocked on this for long?
[01:43] <spiv> 2/3 of his are assigned.
[01:43] <jordi> aww
[01:43] <mpt> flacoste's blockedness last meeting was what inspired the "how can we quicken the review queue" MeetingAction
[01:43] <flacoste> SteveA: blocked may be too strong a word, but i have two branches that are in review for more than 2 weeks
[01:43] <jordi> DONE: imports email, TODO: more imports, prepare Jono's sessions for next week
[01:43] <jordi> BLOCKED: no
[01:43] <flacoste> and one is unassigned for more than 10 days
[01:44] <SteveA> flacoste: I think the all-hands meeting is a lot of the cause.
[01:44] <SteveA> jamesh: as a proxy for lifeless, can you help get flacoste's reviews better assigned?
[01:45] <jamesh> SteveA: okay.  I'll also look at clearing out my queue tomorrow (one of flacoste's branches is assigned to me)
[01:45] <SteveA> thanks jamesh 
[01:45] <SteveA> okay, that's the end of this week's meeting.
[01:46] <SteveA> thanks for being here, and being involved in the meeting!
[01:46] <kiko> good job SteveA 
[01:46] <kiko> thanks jamesh 
[01:46] <SteveA> so, kiko, there's an urgent soyuz issue?
[01:46] <kiko> SteveA, yeah. we're getting dropped connections to the database
[01:46] <kiko> and we don't know why
[01:46] <danilos> and mpt, thanks for keeping track of it week in and out!
[01:46] <kiko> cprov, is the issue still happening?
[01:46] <SteveA> right, after the upgrade to dapper
[01:47] <cprov> SteveA: yes, it's just happened again
[01:47] <kiko> SteveA, no, since monday
[01:47] <jamesh> kiko: I summarised that first OOPS in bug 72998
[01:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72998 in launchpad "fmt:text-to-html causes OOPSs for URLs ending in "&"" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72998
[01:47] <SteveA> kiko: was it happening before the upgrade to dapper?
[01:47] <kiko> jamesh, many thanks, will confirm.
[01:47] <kiko> SteveA, yes, since monday.
[01:47] <jamesh> kiko: please don't confirm by adding such a URL to that bug :)
[01:47] <kiko> jamesh, heh
[01:47] <kiko> SteveA, the issue here is that this at times causes the publisher to stop running.
[01:47] <cprov> kiko: publisher connection died and cause the cron.daily to skip domination and a-f run for dapper-proposed suite
[01:47] <kiko> SteveA, when it aborts, it can leave the DB and pool in an inconsistent state
[01:48] <kiko> SteveA, we understand that the transactionality of this process needs to be fixed, but more urgently, when this does happen now, cprov needs to go in and do surgery
[01:48] <SteveA> jamesh: does that mean it's a lack of re.escaping?
[01:48] <kiko> and by surgery I mean open heart DB surgery
[01:48] <kiko> SteveA, this is very distressing and causes cprov's work to be dropped on the floor
[01:49] <kiko> SteveA, and it's been going on for 4  days now
[01:49] <SteveA> kiko: have cprov and stub spoken, using their voices, about it?
[01:49] <kiko> SteveA, they have not. cprov pinged the admins, but took a while to email the list, and stub has not replied.
[01:50] <cprov> SteveA: not yet
[01:50] <kiko> cprov, in the future, email the list /as soon as the issue occurs/
[01:50] <kiko> cprov, do not wait for a day or three
[01:50] <SteveA> ok.  if something is causing problems like this, arrange a voice call asap
[01:50] <kiko> cprov, in terms of process, I mean.
[01:50] <SteveA> a sense of urgency transfers much better by voice
[01:50] <cprov> kiko: I did, stub is aware. But I should be quicker next time
[01:50] <kiko> SteveA, specially at 2am
[01:50] <SteveA> stub has replied on the list
[01:50] <SteveA> he replied earlier today
[01:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #72998 in launchpad "fmt:text-to-html causes OOPSs for URLs ending in "&"" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72998
[01:51] <kiko> ah I didn't see that
[01:51] <SteveA> and explained something he would try to remedy the situation, and what he'll do to look into it further
[01:51] <cprov> SteveA: which clearly didn't work as expected
[01:53] <kiko> cprov, SteveA: this is the sort of thing that requires some coordinated looking at. can we book some time for a thailand-brazil call to go over this asap?
[01:53] <SteveA> mpt: from stub:
[01:53] <SteveA> DONE: travel, uds, allhands, travel, top level pillar name urls
[01:53] <SteveA> TODO: fix all the tests broken by pillar name url changes, recover from this
[01:53] <SteveA> virus
[01:53] <SteveA> BLOCKED: ears and a fuzzy throat.
[01:53] <SteveA> I'm up to date on activity reports.
[01:53] <SteveA> ---
[01:54] <cprov> kiko: anytime, I can also go to the office if you want
[01:54] <kiko> cprov, I'm not sure I can be of much help :-(
[02:00] <mpt> ok
[02:01] <SteveA> kiko, cprov: I just had a call with stub
[02:02] <SteveA> he'll pop onto irc in 4 or 5 hours.  however, there isn't anything he can actually do about the problems we're seeing, as they are outside his domain of influence.
[02:02] <SteveA> he managed to reproduce the problem once
[02:02] <SteveA> or at least a very similar situation, by running the publisher and using psql
[02:03] <SteveA> the problem was solved when the publisher quit.  so it seems to be a load related issue, to do with the publisher causing a lot of load
[02:03] <SteveA> so, load on the machine from publisher is stu's top guess as to the cause, secondary would be network problems
[02:03] <SteveA> next, I want to find out, what sysadmins are involved so far
[02:04] <cprov> SteveA: I can't really see how high load would cause the socket to be dropped
[02:05] <kiko> apologies, SteveA, was on the phone.
[02:05] <kiko> SteveA, cprov: strawman idea: run the publisher niced to 5?
[02:05] <cprov> SteveA: but I believe it is our best guess, since it what changed compared to the last week (apart of breezy-->dapper migration)
[02:06] <SteveA> maybe introduce delays into the publisher?
[02:06] <kiko> it has ENOUGH delays as it is :-)
[02:06] <kiko> jamesh, ping
[02:06] <SteveA> we could do with some sysadmin help to diagnose the situation on drescher
[02:06] <SteveA> cprov, kiko: what sysadmins are already involved?
[02:06] <cprov> SteveA: Znarl looked on it yesterday
[02:06] <kiko> SteveA, cprov knows, because I forgot
[02:06] <Znarl> stevea : I'm looking at drescher right now.
[02:06] <SteveA> hi Znarl 
[02:07] <SteveA> let's move this over to the sysadmin channel
[02:07] <cprov> publisher is running for 4 minutes
[02:11] <jordi> carlos: ping?
[02:23] <salgado> BjornT, have you seen my last reply to your review of my direct-person-creation branch?
[02:45] <carlos> jordi: pong
[02:56] <jordi> carlos: want to talk now? I have 5 mins before I leave
[03:02] <kiko> mpt, jamesh or SteveA around?
[03:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73006 in launchpad "Launchpad mirror content checker fail" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73006
[03:28] <kiko> salgado, "checker fail"?
[03:28] <salgado> kiko, already answered. the mirror's base url was wrong
[03:29] <kiko> salgado, you rock
[03:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73009 in launchpad-support-tracker "Insufficient contrast on class 'highlighted'" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73009
[03:49] <BjornT> salgado: yeah, i saw your reply, but forgot to answer. i'll reply now.
[04:01] <salgado> BjornT, great, thanks
[04:16] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73013 in launchpad-support-tracker "Unicode character names appear in succesful linked bug message" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73013
[04:45] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73020 in launchpad-support-tracker "Non-optional Message field marked as (Optional)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73020
[05:10] <mhb> hi launchpad devs and friends
[05:11] <mhb> does anyone know if it's possible for a LoCo administrator to change the importance of bugs in language-pack-* ?
[05:11] <soneca> helo!
[05:12] <jordi> mhb: probably not
[05:12] <soneca> I was registering in launchpad site at https://answers.launchpad.net/people/ricardo-conectiva/+claim, but i do not have anymore the email address that i put there. How i can fix the email?
[05:14] <mhb> jordi: hmm, it was possible in the past (see: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/language-pack-cs/+bug/48900 has "Medium" importance)
[05:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48900 in language-pack-cs "Poloka "vlastnosti softwaru" - GNOME Systm->Sprva" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[05:15] <jordi> mhb: probably because it's assigned to the team
[05:15] <carlos> mhb: as far as I know, some time ago, we restricted that field to the developers in charge of the package
[05:15] <jordi> ah
[05:16] <carlos> but that's not a recent change
[05:16] <mhb> carlos: probably not, but since the actual loco team coordinators are going to fix those bugs, they should be able to change that
[05:17] <mhb> carlos: it's probably a good thing in general, but the developers in charge of the package won't fix these bugs
[05:17] <carlos> mhb: Perhaps the translation teams should be on charge of those bugs... (I guess the loco team coordinators are members of those teams already)
[05:18] <carlos> not sure about the best setup for it
[05:18] <mhb> carlos: yes
[05:18] <carlos> BjornT_: could you help us with this? ^^^
[05:18] <mhb> carlos: I'm one of the admins in that team, that's why I am concerned
[05:19] <mhb> it's not actually that much of a problem, but it would be great if it worked
[05:20] <carlos> I think it's more a setup problem than other thing
[05:21] <carlos> by default the package is owned an Ubuntu team, and it's just a matter of taking this special case in consideration, although you still need to wait for a new language pack update done by an Ubuntu developer (usually Martin Pitt)
[05:24] <mhb> carlos: so when the language-pack-* gets updated we will be able to change the importance? Do I understand it correctly?
[05:25] <carlos> Well, I was not talking about change the packages, but the information we have in launchpad
[05:25] <carlos> and I need BjornT_ here, he's a Malone developer and knows the details that control that permission
[05:25] <salgado> BjornT_, around?
[05:26] <mhb> ok, I'll wait
[05:52] <kiko> what's up carlos, mhb?
[05:53] <carlos> kiko: mhb asks whether would be possible to give access to the importance field of language-pack-* packages to the ubuntu translation teams
[05:54] <carlos> kiko: they are the ones that will fix those bugs
[05:54] <carlos> so they should be able to decide the importance
[06:04] <BjornT_> carlos, mhb: hmm, it's a bit tricky. at the moment only the distribution bug contact may change the importance.
[06:05] <BjornT_> carlos, mhb: so only members of ubuntu-bugs may change it.
[06:06] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73027 in launchpad-support-tracker "Add 'Last owner reply' sort order" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73027
[06:06] <BjornT_> salgado: i'm around now
[06:07] <salgado> BjornT, do you have a minute to discuss the last issues with my direct-person-creation branch?
[06:07] <mhb> BjornT: it's not a good solution since almost very few translators are members of that team
[06:08] <BjornT> salgado: sure
[06:09] <salgado> BjornT, so, you suggested writing a base validator, but the problem is that it would have to fetch an email address from the database, and if one was found, pass it to their callsites, 
[06:09] <BjornT> mhb: yeah. having one team for a whole distribution is not optimal, there should be some more fine-grained permission control. unfortunately there's no plan for fixing it at the moment.
[06:11] <mhb> sigh
[06:11] <mhb> ok
[06:11] <BjornT> sorry
[06:12] <BjornT> mhb: but please file a bug about it
[06:12] <flacoste> kiko-afk: support tracker highlights for the Launchpad Report sent your way
[06:12] <mhb> BjornT: as a workaround - if I joined ubuntu-bugs would I be able to change the permissions?
[06:13] <BjornT> mhb: yes, that would work. you have to have someone in ubuntu-qa to approve your membership, though.
[06:14] <salgado> BjornT, I'd either have to turn the validator into something that returns an email address if it exists, None if it doesn't exists or fail if the email is not valid
[06:14] <salgado> would that be okay?
[06:16] <BjornT> salgado: why do you need to return the email address? it's the same that you pass to the validator, isn't it?
[06:16] <salgado> BjornT, no, I pass a string to the validtor, but I need the EmailAddress object because I use the owner in the error message
[06:17] <mhb> BjornT: hmm, I guess they won't allow it just for the sake of a workaround
[06:17] <salgado> BjornT, the code I'm talking about is at interfaces/validation.py:355
[06:18] <BjornT> mhb: they might allow it, it doesn't hurt to ask
[06:19] <BjornT> salgado: well, you could use IPersonSet.getByEmail instead to construct the error message
[06:21] <BjornT> salgado: although i guess you could have something like get_registered_email as well
[06:26] <salgado> BjornT, so, it'd be something like https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileG3WxwS.html ?
[06:28] <BjornT> salgado: yeah, something like that. it's such a small and simple function, so it's not worth trying to factor out code.
[06:31] <salgado> BjornT, right. the only concern I have is that all validate functions will either raise an exception or return False, but never both of them are used in the same function
[06:32] <salgado> that is, they use either one or another to indicate an error, but not one to indicate one type of error and another to indicate other type of error.
[06:35] <BjornT> i'm not sure that's something to care about. but if that's a concern, that maybe it's better to have something like get_registered_email() instead, which would either return an IEmailAddress or None, and raise an error if the email is malformed.
[06:41] <salgado> I don't like any of these options, to be honest, but if you're not worried about using a return value and raising an exception to indicate different errors, then I'll do it, since I dislike the other even more
[06:43] <salgado> BjornT, is that okay with you?
[06:51] <BjornT> salgado: yeah, i'm ok with it. returning True or raising an error isn't that good either, actually. it should be either True or False, or 'no exception'/exception.
[06:52] <salgado> agreed
[06:52] <salgado> but although we do return True or raise an exception in most of our validator functions, I don't think the callsites actually care about the return value
[06:52] <BjornT> another option would be to have a validate_email() which would only check whether valid_email(email) is True. then you would simply if IEmailAddressSet.getByEmail() is None/'not None'
[06:53] <salgado> we have that
[06:54] <salgado> but then I'd duplicate the raise LaunchpadValidationError("%s isn't a valid email address.") in both functions
[06:54] <salgado> I thought about that, but I have something that blocks my fingers when I think about code duplication, so I couldn't even suggest that here
[06:55] <BjornT> salgado: i was thinking that validate_email() should raise that error, and then you would call validate_email() from within the different validators.
[06:55] <salgado> ah, no
[06:55] <salgado> now I see what you mean
[06:55] <salgado> yeah, that's better. I'll do that
[06:56] <BjornT> cool, i like that better as well
[07:19] <salgado> BjornT, so, is it okay to land that branch with this change and the template renaming?
[07:24] <BjornT> salgado: sure, that's ok
[09:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73042 in malone "Rather too hard to convert old Bugzilla bug number to LP URL" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73042
[09:32] <SteveA> kiko-afk: ping
[09:42] <BenC> hey lp'ers
[09:42] <SteveA> hoi BenC, whats up?
[09:43] <BenC> I'm interested in the nifty beta lp stuff that I saw at AllHands :)
[09:43] <SteveA> we still don't have it running against production data
[09:44] <SteveA> I expect to announce it, and make it available to people next week, once we have that aspect of it smoothed out
[09:44] <BenC> I'm writing a new bit of software for one of the specs I have, and I'd love to make the bzr plunge with it using the new code
[09:45] <SteveA> you can use bzr independently of the new UI
[09:45] <BenC> I guess I can start with that and move to the lp project when you let it loose
[09:45] <SteveA> all the same features are present in launchpad in production now
[09:45] <SteveA> all the new ui gets you is the new ui
[09:46] <BenC> I didn't see a straight forward way of doing a sourceforge like project on lp
[09:47] <BenC> I guess it's the new UI that makes it more obvious and consistent...I'll get things on there now
[09:47] <SteveA> ddaa is back from vac next week, so definitely talk with him about it too.
[09:48] <SteveA> you can host your bzr branches on launchpad right now
[09:54] <LarstiQ> hmm?
[09:59] <BenC> what's a standard branch name for "HEAD" in bzr?
[10:01] <SteveA> in launchpad, we have an informal standard of "devel"
[10:01] <SteveA> other projects use "devo" which sounds very australian server dude to me
[10:01] <BenC> ok
[10:01] <SteveA> "mainline" is not a bad choice either imo
[10:02] <SteveA> BenC: have you read the weblog articles linked from the bzr-vcs site on using bzr with launchpad?
[10:02] <BenC> I started reading it
[10:03] <LarstiQ> BenC: trunk is also used
[10:04] <BenC> here's a stupid question, how do I create a new product?
[10:05] <BenC> nm, found it
[10:11] <BenC> 1 revision(s) pushed.
[10:11] <BenC> w00t
[11:10] <fdoving> where do i post feature requests to launchpad (support part)? 
[12:04] <SteveA> fdoving: a good place to start is to discuss it on the launchpad-users mailing list
[12:04] <fdoving> SteveA: ok. it's just about the colors for Answered/Solved in the recent change. both green is not user friendly imho.
[12:05] <SteveA> so, you can file a bug or discuss on launchpad-users
[12:05] <SteveA> up to you
[12:07] <fdoving> ok. thanks, i'll file a bug. :)
[12:07] <SteveA> https://bugs.launchpad.net/products/launchpad-support-tracker