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[n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-243-246-253.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Nov 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Nov 18:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 28 Nov 16:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu === mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyserver [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stalefries [n=alan@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === stalefries [n=alan@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["I've] === mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A66622.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@clj46-234.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@pD9E261BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:01] @schedule eST [08:01] Schedule for EST: 23 Nov 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Nov 13:00: Xubuntu | 28 Nov 11:00: LoCo Team | 29 Nov 07:00: Edubuntu === lloydinho [n=andreas@rosinante.egmont-kol.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:33] @schedule sydney [08:33] Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 24 Nov 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 26 Nov 05:00: Xubuntu | 29 Nov 03:00: LoCo Team | 29 Nov 23:00: Edubuntu === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === unix_infidel [n=blue@unaffiliated/unixinfidel/x-8383745] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting 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#ubuntu-meeting === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-27-104.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === imbrandon [n=imbrando@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ericz [n=eric@ip70-174-127-4.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Adri2000_ [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keyseir [n=Keyseir@166-82-208-32.quickclick.ctc.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keyseir_ [n=Keyseir@166-82-208-32.quickclick.ctc.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A66622.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === givr1 [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-22-169.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === vincent [n=vincent@abo-86-198-68.ang.modulonet.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D91CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lotusleaf flaps arms and makes turkey noises === BenC gobbles lotus === tonyyarusso hops a bus to campus, where maybe there are sane people [05:27] BenC: feathers and all? :P === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tkamppeter [i=till@nat/mandriva/x-3de9fa4acce124a5] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:44] mmm, continental time === heno [n=henrik@host-81-191-165-41.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 25 Nov 18:00 UTC: Xubuntu | 28 Nov 16:00 UTC: LoCo Team | 29 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu [05:53] ubugtu seems a little premature [05:53] @schedule chicago [05:53] Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Nov 12:00: Xubuntu | 28 Nov 10:00: LoCo Team | 29 Nov 06:00: Edubuntu [05:54] pre-emptive strike! [05:54] hehe [05:54] actually ubugtu always change the topic 10 minutes before the start of the next meeting [05:54] (and does it again, afair, 2 or 3 hours after the meeting has started) [05:54] s/afair/iirc/ === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti waves hello [05:55] hey pitti [05:55] I've created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20061123 === kylem waves [05:55] mdz will not be here due to thanksgiving, so I'll chair [05:56] anyone desperate to go first? otherwise I'll just run through in the order of the above wiki page === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-78-140.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:56] cjwatson: does the first one get a pony? === niemeyer [n=niemeyer@200.138.43.78] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Express [n=chris__3@88.122.35.137] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:59] hi all === BenC pings in === mvo says hello [06:00] cjwatson: Can I go first so I can get to the turkey? === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:00] BenC: you're second in the list anyway :) [06:00] BenC: you are second anyway [06:00] ok, I can wait :) [06:00] in soviet russia, turkey goes first === vincent [n=vincent@abo-86-198-68.ang.modulonet.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:02] hi everybody === Seeker` [n=cjo20@ip-62-105-182-26.dsl.twang.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:03] should we get started guys? [06:03] I'm just going through the list to figure out whom to ping === ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-172-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:03] I assume Kees is off due to Thanksgiving as well [06:04] doko is on holiday [06:04] ogra is in Poland somewhere [06:04] Kees is there [06:04] seb128 has an appointment === pitti pinged keescook === mvo is currently only one-eyed - the doctor made me wear a eye-patch [06:05] mvo: yarr! [06:05] ok, we'll see if Adam and Kees turn up later [06:06] general idea of this meeting is to go through specs and figure out which ones are on track for approval by next Thursday === mvo wants to be a pirate! [06:06] or, more importantly, which ones aren't and may need to be rescued [06:06] @all: since Kees officially reports to elmo now, mdz said that Kees is not officially required for distro team meeting [06:06] pitti: aha, thanks [06:06] BenC: could you start? I have a phone call, brb [06:06] cjwatson: given that it's 0400 in Adam's TZ, I suspect he might just have crashed. [06:06] * driver-device-manager: Drafting: will have this finished and approved by Nov 30th. Actually started on writing this already. [06:06] * retire-optimized-kernels: Retroactive spec, need to draft it. [06:06] * linux-kernel-crash-dump: Retargetted to feisty. Few small bits still to implement. [06:06] * libata-for-all-ata-disks: Retargetted to feisty. Have switched a few drivers to pata in 2.6.19. Ran into some issues with initramfs-tools not including them in the initrd, but fixed as of yesterday. Still some issues to figure out with regard to generic/ide-generic and ata_generic/pata_legacy migration. [06:07] (back) [06:07] BenC: we really really should talk about d-d-m given #u-k today. let's schedule that for when you're less turkey-centric [06:07] BenC: do you really need to invest much effort for retire-optimized-kernels if it's done already anyway? [06:07] Keybuk: definitely [06:07] can we make kylem our bitch to write the kernel patches? [06:07] pitti: It's just a spec to record what we did [06:07] ah [06:07] I only mention it because it's assigned to me :) [06:08] (Adam's moving to elmo's team as well, AFAIK, so ...) [06:08] BenC: ok, you seem to have an easy time :) === Laser_away [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:08] cjwatson: I'm willing to take on some other stuff if need be [06:08] which of course makes you a prime target for rescuing other people's stuff ... [06:09] I can delegate [06:09] feisty-ubiquity: Approved. I should do some of this, but some would make good bite-size tasks for new developers. Should I be the assignee anyway? === BenC shoves kylem into the middle of the channel [06:09] increase-hwdb-participation: Approved. None of this is actually going to happeen in the installer, so I'd appreciate somebody else volunteering as the assigneee here. [06:09] heh [06:09] . o O { can I be on elmo's team too? :p } [06:09] intel-mac-support: Did not get discussion at UDS or allhands. I know roughly what needs to be done, so I intend to draft it anyway and we can at least make the situation a lot better than it is now. [06:09] setup-console-under-usplash: Approved; working my way through the merge pile before uploading; unfortunately we have to merge xkeyboard-config first. [06:09] simplify-oem-installation: Still in requirements gathering. There are some fairly obvious things we can do listed at the bottom of the brain-dump, but I don't know how far we can take this without better commercial input. [06:09] ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: No more work done since just before UDS, but it's still just as approved as it was before. [06:09] ubiquity-automation: Approved. We went for a fairly conservative set of options which should be a quick win. [06:09] ubiquity-driver-updates: Drafting. We loosely agreed the business side at allhands, so I just need to put the pieces together and get it approved now. [06:09] ubiquity-more-user-config: Discussion. We still need to talk to Launchpad developers about account creation; I didn't manage this at allhands ... [06:09] ubiquity-oem: Not really started. Doesn't need significant discussion, but Maria indicated at allhands that this wasn't a priority for the Canonical OEM team, so I'll only complete it if I have time. [06:09] ubiquity-release-notes: Approved. Should be easy. [06:09] ubiquity-slideshow: Approved. Installer side should be straightforward, but it also needs artwork. Who should be the assignee? [06:09] note in case it's lost: looking for volunteers to implement increase-hwdb-participation [06:09] I suspect I'll need to ask mdz later about the who-should-be-assignee questions [06:10] ubiquity-more-user-config is really the one in most trouble, so I'll try to get that rescued somewhat tomorroow [06:10] -o [06:10] I still want ubiquity-sudoku [06:10] Keybuk++ [06:11] Keybuk: that should be easy enough to do.. [06:11] Keybuk: Apps -> Games -> Sudoku :) [06:11] seriously tempted to ignore the oem stuff as I doubt I'm going to get clear enough requirements [06:11] cjwatson: will that replace the current oem-config package? or will both be supported? [06:12] (I'm asking because oem-config seems to have quite a number of hiccups) [06:12] pitti: the plans in simplify-oem-installation were to improve oem-config; one of my suggestions in there was to build it from ubiquity, since internally they're similar [06:12] ah, that's great [06:12] I suspect regardless of spec approval I'll at least try to fix bugs *shrug* [06:13] cjwatson: is increase-hwdb-participation as simple as it looks? [06:13] I would be interessted in increase-hwdb-participation but I supsect that I will not have time because of my specs [06:13] Mithrandir: as specced, I think so [06:13] anyway, we can talk about it later [06:14] is dholbach around anywhere, or on holiday? [06:14] cjwatson: if so, I can probably do it. It _looks_ like an hour or so of work, mostly in casper. [06:14] he was around earlier today. [06:14] Mithrandir: needs to be outside casper I think, due to the after-first-reboot requirement [06:14] anyway, later :) [06:14] fabbione: next [06:14] Done [06:14] * clean up a couple of specs. [06:14] * merges. [06:14] * extra bug fixing in mdadm to have bootable feisty. [06:14] * SRU for lvm2 (dapper and edgy). [06:14] * debugging pata_via init race. [06:14] * update some other packages (ocfs2-tools, openais, redhat-cluster-suite). [06:14] (later => #ubuntu-devel) [06:14] * wrote metacode for MAU support in the kernel. [06:14] * recovering from jetlag (on going). [06:14] To do [06:14] fabbione: EXPN MAU? [06:14] * start working specs implementations. [06:14] * get last specs approved. [06:14] * change meeting report layout to match specs status. === mvo thinks the improved-hwdb spec should include the goal to make hwdb-client transltable [06:15] cjwatson: it's a math unit optimized to do some mul for sll [06:15] s/sll/ssl [06:15] mvo: talk with ogra about that when he's around [06:15] cjwatson: dholbach is on the road, he send his meeting notes to mdz AFAIK [06:16] cjwatson: i am deliberatly avoiding SSL accelerator because it's like a dedicated FPU that does only 3 things [06:16] cjwatson: and *casually* they are very often used in SSL operations [06:16] fabbione: is that for sparc64-niagara-ssl-accelerator? [06:17] cjwatson: yes === cjwatson tries to mentally transform fabbione's report into per-spec [06:17] cjwatson: yes sorry.. if forgot the spec format for this meeting [06:17] * update some other packages (ocfs2-tools, openais, redhat-cluster-suite). -> feisty-ha-clusters [06:17] so you have ubuntu-feisty-ha-clusters (low), integrity-check (low) to get approved as well as s-n-s-a [06:18] i have more but they are pending approval orhave been excluded from discussion at uds [06:18] but they're pending-approval so presumably those are not too badly off [06:18] exactly [06:18] ok, thanks [06:18] heno: next [06:19] * access-gdm - Should be simple enough with upstream doing work on it. Our default GDM theme is not a11y-capable yet though -- need to look into that. [06:19] * braille-support - Pending Review. cjwatson and Keybuk should have another look at it. [06:19] * color-filters - Spec still needs completing. Libs vare available for testing from upstream but no config GUI has been made AFAIK. [06:19] * common-at-conf -- spec needs to be tightened and recent upstream work needs taking into account. [06:19] * multilingual-speech - Should be split up into a Fiesty and a Fiesty+1 spec, with the former adding more language files to our repos (universe and multiverse) and the later would include UI and Just Works stuff. [06:19] * orca-laptop-support - Approved. good progress -- laptop layout now available for testing from upstream. [06:19] * atspi-testing-by-default -- I'd like feedback from the team on this. It is already implemented in test builds of Gnome; does that mean we get it automatically? Are there any major objections to this? ... it will slow systems down a bit. [06:19] heno: most of your specs still seem to be in New. Is that an accurate reflection? [06:20] mouse-tweaks, onboard-desktop-control, onboard-switching? [06:20] cjwatson: some will not be going forward due to general lack of community support, what should be done with those? [06:21] Yes, I posted several such specs before UDS but they don't have steam ATM [06:21] if they're just a bad idea, there's an Obsolete status or similar, and use the status whiteboard; if they won't happen *yet*, I think Deferred [06:21] the onboard stuff needs time from chris, etc [06:22] but at any rate note the status in the whiteboard [06:22] ok, I'm drafter, registrant, but was not planning to have them assigned to me [06:22] esp. the onboard ones [06:22] ok, will do [06:23] who were you planning them to be assigned to? [06:23] my main concerns about atspi-testing-by-default are (a) if it's *too* broken it could seriously impede development, (b) how do we arrange to turn it off again for people who install milestone releases of feisty and then upgrae? [06:23] upgrade [06:23] community members [06:24] cjwatson: I agree on both of those. I can research (b) a bit [06:24] if they're understood but just lack implementation time, please try to get them drafted so that people can pick them up even if there's nobody available right now [06:25] Chris Jones may still work on onboard stuff [06:25] cjwatson: right, ok [06:25] some might be suitable for next years GSoC [06:26] ok, thanks heno; we can discuss further later [06:26] iwj: next [06:26] we are planning a joint pool of specs/candidates across several FOSS projects [06:26] automated-testing-deployment: Approved, implementation Deferred from edgy. Work will continue. [06:26] udev-lvm: Pending Approval by mdz. [06:26] gnome-app-install-codecs: Drafting. Awaiting final details of the codec specifier string; apparently gstreamer folks are working on this. [06:26] winmodem-support: New. Spec is unclear and I think needs discussion, I suggest deferring to feisty+1. [06:26] package-dependency-field-breaks: Approved / Beta Available. Should be ready for full deployment now; I will rerun my search-for-candidates. [06:26] usb-adsl-modems: Approved / Unknown. Lacking an Assignee. It would be nice to assign this to someone who understands the subject. [06:27] consistent-login-screen: Review. There seems to be a shortage of reviewers today. It seemed odd to review my own spec, so I didn't. [06:27] dbus-restarts: Drafting. This needs discussion I think. Why was it declined for uds-mtv ? [06:27] edgy-fontconfig: New. There is no spec and the subject needs discussion. I suggest deferring (or rejecting). === xeros [i=xeros@fan194.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti_ [n=pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:28] iwj, edgy-fontconfig is a good spec. the real problem is that we basically got no one with deep fontconfig knowledge at UDS MTV [06:28] I think dbus-restarts was declined because it was controversial and properly belonged upstream (note: just the messenger) [06:29] rodarvus: err, we had Keith Packard - how much more knowledgeable do you want? :P [06:29] cjwatson: Um. [06:29] actually it was declined because nobody subscribed to it [06:29] Keybuk: That's fair enough. [06:29] mdz only wanted things to be on the schedule if there were multiple people to discuss it [06:29] cjwatson, keithp was there for one morning, and had specs during all the time he was there :) [06:29] cjwatson: dbus-restarts really needs to be done and every one of us knows that upstream are on crack. [06:29] where only the assignee/drafter was there, they may as well just draft it themselves and get it approved as a release goal directly [06:29] iwj: I agree [06:29] but you're right, of course [06:30] So it's not controversial here and we should just do it. But I can't draft it because I don't know dbus quite well enough. [06:30] iwj: gnome-app-install-codecs> do we have a timescale for gstreamer feedback? [06:30] Ryan Lortie says `actively being worked on'. [06:30] any volunteers for usb-adsl-modems? I have some experience with one of the models in question, but no time [06:30] iwj: dbus-restart doesn't seem painfully urgent; and it is yet to be seen whether it's a good idea for a package to restart a daemon in the user's session [06:30] Mail yesterday at 1700Z. No reply from the people who are `actively [working] ' on it ... [06:31] I've made a note to review consistent-login-screen [06:31] pitti: uh ? That's not the suggestion. But let's not have the bof now. [06:31] cjwatson: Thanks. [06:31] perhaps you two can discuss it in #ubuntu-devel later [06:31] right [06:31] Right. [06:32] also to talk to mdz about edgy-fontconfig [06:32] Anyway, I'll chase the codec thing. [06:32] It does seem to have momentum, we just need to make sure the communication is working. [06:32] winmodem-support is annoying but if we do usb-adsl-support at least we'll improve the most common modern class of dialup [06:32] er, dialup-a-like [06:32] *snort* [06:33] and there is not a lot of developer traction, unfortunately [06:33] Yes. [06:33] ok, thanks, I have copious notes now :) [06:33] It's a shame that towsonu2003 couldn't make it to uds to explain it to us. [06:33] I'll have another read through it and see if there's low-hanging fruit [06:33] Riddell: next [06:34] done: [06:34] * all of KDE main merged and updated, send patches upstream, packaging koffice 1.6.1, and security fun with [06:34] todo: [06:34] * merge rest of Kubuntu packages and others with my name on them [06:34] * on holiday next week [06:34] specs: [06:34] 1 being reviewed: [06:34] kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant [06:34] bunch needing approval: [06:34] (community) kubuntu-multimedia-simplification, kubuntu-samba-integration, kubuntu-feisty-laptop, kubuntu-feisty-networking [06:34] (artwork) kubuntu-feisty-artwork* [06:34] (mine) kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes, kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant [06:34] approved specs: [06:34] kubuntu-feisty-kde4-plan, would be a good task for an abitious MOTU [06:34] kubuntu-update-manager, most important one, still trying to contact upstream with questions about embedded konsole [06:34] kubuntu-feisty-language-selector, approved and qt 4 port already done by josef [06:34] kubuntu-feisty-ubiquity, sebas volunteered to help with qt 4 port [06:34] fabbione: iwj was good enough to review kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant, so hopefully that'll need approval soon too [06:35] Riddell: ok [06:35] I'll try to pick up approvals tomorrow/Monday once I'm done with my own specs [06:35] what's the * beside kubuntu-feisty-artwork? [06:36] cjwatson: it's about 5 specs for each of the artwork parts [06:36] the specs themselves are very short [06:36] oh I see, a wildcard [06:37] kubuntu-gdebi, kubuntu-hwdb-usability, kubuntu-feisty-hal-device-manager, kubuntu-onboard? [06:37] all deferred [06:38] ok, can you mark them as such? [06:38] sure [06:39] thanks [06:40] kylem: anything from you? I know you probably don't have much in the way of specs (yet) ... [06:40] moo. [06:40] done: [06:40] * ubuntu-dapper-updates.git up to date with patches from community [06:40] * ubuntu-edgy-updates.git up to date with backports/patches from dapper-updates [06:40] * both trees built on i386/generic [06:40] * pushed to kernel.org [06:40] todo: [06:40] * receive more marching orders [06:40] * figure out why git on rookery hates me [06:40] specs: [06:40] * none assigned [06:41] there's a kernel in dapper-proposed (IIRC) that I need to figure out what to do with [06:41] kylem: we need a kernel security update soon; I would like to talk to you about that [06:41] it's like ten weeks old, but we should probably talk through it at some point [06:41] ok. [06:42] right, I assume Ben will take care of most of your marching orders for now. Are you taking primary responsibility for stable release maintenance? [06:42] you'd have to ask Ben :) [06:43] alright, let's talk about this in #u-k tomorrow [06:44] sure. [06:44] ok, thanks [06:44] pitti: next [06:44] Done: [06:44] * vacation until yesterday [06:44] * caught up with email backlog, security review, and kernel security issues [06:44] Todo: [06:44] * find a spare month to catch up with my fat bugs inbox, which I didn't dare to open in the last two weeks [06:44] * start implementing cleanup-audio-jumble and zero-configuration-networking, since these are most urgent and block other specs [06:44] My feisty goals: [06:44] * zero-configuration-networking: approved, did not start any implementation yet; played around with the stuff locally, avahi-autoipd works nicely, current libnss-mdns does not work at all for me, needs more work; approx. 2 days work [06:44] * cleanup-audio-jumble: pending approval; didn't have an assignee yet, I signed up for this one; did some initial tests, looks good; required code changes will take about a day, changing the system to use pulse consistently another day [06:44] * gnome-mount: approved, and used by default in feisty; still needed: security overhaul of hal backend, and de-gnome-ification of password dialog to make it appropriate for XFCE; approx. 3 days work [06:44] * mount-all-local-filesystems: approved, not started yet; shoulnd't take more than one or two days to get it working [06:44] * apport-improvements: not discussed at UDS; did some talks to kylem and BenC for getting the kernel side right, and talked to lifeless about python crash interception and general code structure cleanup; a lot of work to implement all improvements, but not scheduled for feisty, so low-prio [06:44] * crash-reporting: not discussed at UDS, got an ad-hoc session on allhands; client/apport side isn't too complicated, but writing the server side is a considerable amount of work; needs more discussion with stub and LP team [06:45] * bug-reporting-tool: pending approval, current assignee is sfllaw, but since most of this spec deals with apport changes, I'll probably end up doing the client side (I estimate 1-2 days); I have no idea how much work the Malone side is (cloakroom and linking submitted stuff to bug) [06:45] * malone-cve-tracking: only got a private ad-hoc session with keescook; not a high-pri [06:45] bug mailbox> I feel your pain [06:45] *shudder* [06:45] I've actually caught up on my bugs === pitti bets 500 bugs and grabs another ace from his sleeve [06:45] I spend most of today on it [06:45] pitti: hmm, how does zero-configuration-networking hook into network-roaming? [06:46] bug mailbox? you mean you don't use inbox? [06:46] Mithrandir: requires n-m to start avahi-autoipd for "create/join other network" [06:46] Mithrandir: the spec talks about the things that n-m needs to learn [06:46] pitti: mount-all-local-filesystems> what about the mad journal replay problem ? [06:46] Mithrandir: like invoking avahi-autoipd, etc. [06:46] kylem: I did until it crushed me [06:46] pitti: ok. Can we talk about this later or tomorrow? [06:46] Mithrandir: sure [06:46] this certainly requires some coordination [06:46] kylem, I suppose you subscribe to kernel bugs, right? [06:46] pitti: automatic-printer-conf? [06:46] rodarvus, indeed. [06:47] iwj: no clue, can we discuss this in #u-d? [06:47] Sure. [06:47] cjwatson: not scheduled for feisty, and I'm afraid I won't have time for that [06:47] cjwatson: however, when we get printerdrake this will mostly implement itself [06:48] pitti: apport-improvements is currently medium; we should probably talk about how much is possible [06:48] I'd really like to use the new kernel's 'pipes in core patterns' approach [06:49] but that requires a kernel fix [06:49] it would be nice to get that one at least drafted so that others can be found to help out [06:49] printerdrake is an approved spec, and pitti told me on the UDS that he wanted to download my tarball and start a first adaptation to Ubuntu around two weeks after the UDS. [06:49] right, I'm trying to do that ^ [06:49] cjwatson: I'll draft a subset of the improvements then [06:49] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/printerdrake [06:49] pitti: ok, thanks [06:50] mvo: next [06:50] Approved specs: [06:50] - auto-dist-upgrade-testing [06:50] - binary-driver-education [06:50] - common-customizations [06:50] - enabling-additional-components [06:50] - server-upgrade-tool [06:51] Pending approval: [06:51] - dist-upgrader-fixes [06:51] Drafting: [06:51] - dynamic-mirror-decisions: I need to add input from James that I got during AllHands [06:51] - apt-sha256: not sure it needs a full spec, its straightforward to implement [06:51] - apt-sync: work on integrating the SoC work on incremental updates into apt [06:51] - dist-upgrader-arch-any: make sure the upgrader can use binary-any components (e.g. backports). Its pretty clear how to implement it, not sure it needs a full spec [06:52] incremental updates> not pdiffs, right? does that require LP integration? === kwah [n=kwah@d100246.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:53] cjwatson: no, zsync/rsync based updates. it would require apt-ftparchive/soyuz integration, but its all pretty experimental currently, not sure it can be done in feisty timeframe [06:53] I have a test repository working on people [06:53] I'm not concerned about apt-sha256 or dist-upgrader-arch-any from the sound of things [06:53] given the size of the soyuz team, I'd imagine it'd be hard finding the resources [06:53] unless you want to hack on LP [06:53] well, except that apt-sha256 probably needs a soyuz change === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:53] yes, anything that needs LP integration needs to be done massively far in advance [06:54] cjwatson: right, but the apt-sha256 change should be small, it only writes the Release file itself, the rest is done via apt-ftparchive [06:54] mvo: dependency-removal? [06:54] mvo: ... assuming that soyuz keeps on using apt-ftparchive, which doesn't seem entirely definite [06:55] cjwatson: I'm not sure why it is in NEW. it was fully speced and approved. and its in edgy. its just not turned on by default (it just prints) [06:55] cjwatson: oh? it seems to me that if the soyuz team is very small and has trouble keeping up that rewriting apt-ftparchive might not be the best thing to do [06:56] mvo: feel free to draft whatever's still needed and move it out of new (possibly pointing it at a different wiki page or something) [06:56] cjwatson: thanks, I will [06:56] mvo: well, I agree, but they've always had performance concerns with apt-ftparchive and want to just dump the data out of the database [06:56] anyway, later [06:57] *nod* [06:57] mvo: dynamic-mirror-decisions does not seem to address automatic selection at all yet - is that planned? [06:57] cjwatson: yes, it was unclear to me what is really needed. but I talked to James during allhands and have a pretty good idea now [06:57] I need to add it to the spec though [06:57] ok, please do [06:57] thanks [06:58] rodarvus: next [06:58] - accelerated-x: under review. I asked Scott to hold the Approval of this spec until we received release notes from Christina. This is well underway, so please feel free to Review it now [06:58] - composite-by-default: drafting. Scope has changed since last BoF meeting on UDS MTV. Was "composite *not* really by default, but easily enabled", now became "composite by default". The three remaining focal points of the drafting are: [06:58] - Making a table, with an in depth comparison of Beryl and Compiz, plus features that need to be met by both of them, so the Technical Board can make the decision when the time comes (Feature Freeze, I suppose?). This comparison is underway, I expect to have it ready tomorrow [06:58] - Inheriting stuff from 'desktop-effects' package into a semi-novelty design, to accomodate the fact that we'll be the first distro using composite by default. This information will also be added to the spec [06:58] - Researching graceful fallback of Beryl/Compiz to Metacity (and how to store that into the config file). [06:58] - bullet-proof-x: needs to be drafted, but is blocked by 'composite-by-default', which is of higher priority [06:58] - simple-x-mode-selection: likewise [06:58] - maemo-on-ubuntu: we had almost a day of discussion at UDS MTV for this spec, but it needs legal feedback from Nokia, before I can actually draft it. (so problems are not of technical nature, and I'm not sure if it will happen for feisty) [06:58] - I also have two other edubuntu-related specs, which I plan to talk to ogra about, when he is here (but they are already approved) [06:58] Remarks: [06:58] - I expect composite-by-default to be ready for the first round of Review tomorrow. Hopefully the first two remaining items will be addressed. 'graceful fallback' is not quite there, unfortunately [06:58] - the two specs *will* be ready before Nov 30th. I'll finish them on Monday, even if composite-by-default is not there yet === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:59] rodarvus: Feature Freeze is the plan [06:59] *nods* [06:59] or distro sprint? === pitti wonders how Feisty's goal of 'good hardware support' and 'compiz by default' go together [06:59] pitti: fallback to metacity [06:59] heh [06:59] that way teams can coalesce around both projects, and we can evaluate how much support we're likely to get, as well as what shape they're both in [07:00] pitti, the challenge of having good hardware support, with composite window manager is the biggest challenge of accelerated-x and composite-by-default [07:01] how is simple-x-mode-selection blocked by composite-by-default? [07:01] and the reason why these two specs are hard to get approved and implemented right [07:01] rodarvus: (just bitching that feisty breaks both my computers ATM, but nevermind) [07:01] is there going to be a way of manually turning off compiz? [07:01] cjwatson, just time constraints [07:01] as mentioned above, I'll draft the two remaining specs monday, regardless if I have composite-by-default ready for review by the [07:02] then [07:02] rodarvus: ah, I misunderstood "likewise" [07:02] ok, thanks, let me know when I can look over bullet-proof-x [07:02] -EBADGRAMMAR [07:02] Keybuk: next [07:02] cjwatson, sure [07:03] Keybuk, please take a look at accelerated-x when you can. I hope it won't need another round of drafting, but you never know [07:03] Spec Status [07:03] udev specs: these are only a few hours work each, yet eliminate a major source of race conditions and problems that we have. My plan is to implement these as a set once the upstart changes have been done. [07:03] - udev-device-mapper: [approved] [07:03] - udev-mdadm: [implemented] with fabbione's merge of mdadm, and my upload of udev, this should be working [07:03] - udev-evms: [pending approval - mdz] [07:03] - udev-lvm: [pending approval - mdz] [07:03] + I don't believe there were major concerns with the above two specs, just drafting issues. [07:03] slick boot specs: one of Mark's goals for feisty. Fortunately there's not much "real work" here. [07:04] - slick-boot: [pending approval - sabdfl] this mostly ended up as a todo list spec [07:04] - setup-console-under-usplash: [really cjwatson's] almost done? [07:04] - usplash-fsck-progress: [drafting] not yet started on this one, it's one of those things that's probably more effort to draft than it is to implement. [07:04] - boot-messages: [drafting] coupled with above really, needs some discussion and decisions how to implement - will land quite late in the cycle; if it misses, the edgy stuff is "good enough" [07:04] - no-usplash-timeout: [review - cjwatson] trivial spec just to make things more seamless [07:04] - usplash-until-desktop: [blocked and declined] it turns out that this isn't possible; most X drivers need to start in a text mode, otherwise they can't set the mode back when you Ctrl-Alt-F1 back later. [07:04] Keybuk: slick-boot depends on usplash-until-desktop, which can't happen, doesn't it? [07:04] replacement-initscripts: [drafting] Spec has a draft brain storm, this one will be in flux until it's actually implemented. Basically like streamlined-boot before; the spec will document what happened, not what's planned. [07:04] automake-transition: [deferred from edgy - implemented!] Debian have almost finished this transition, marked it implemented as it's only half a dozen unmaintained packages that haven't been transitioned now. Automake 1.10 FTW! [07:04] techboard-2006: [pending approval - sabdfl] Can mdz poke him? :p [07:04] new-pci-ids: [new] someone (mdz!) stuffed this in my queue. the summary is bogus, it's practically impossi [07:04] impossible to do today. we could do this properly with some heavy kernel hackery that would give us lots and lots of wins. [07:04] Keybuk: new-pci-ids is supposed to use the new_id thing in /sys [07:04] cjwatson: I could rename it to "slickish-boot", but I can't be arsed :p the other gains are worthwhile [07:04] cjwatson: which doesn't work [07:04] uh? [07:05] #ubuntu-devel [07:05] indeed, or read the #ubuntu-kernel log from today === Seeker` [n=a@195-112-32-183.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:05] this dovetails nicely with BenC's device-driver-manager thing [07:05] we both want to do the same evil thing to the kernel [07:05] Keybuk: usplash-until-desktop> too hard to save the mode in the initramfs? [07:05] setup-console-under-usplash should land tomorrowish at which point testing would be very nice [07:06] I'll go and read up on the kernel stuff later [07:06] Mithrandir: it's an X driver thing apparently, mjg59 knows more [07:07]