[12:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73060 in launchpad-support-tracker "Usability, Colors: Answered and Solved are both green." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73060
[01:21] <SteveA> LarstiQ: still around?
[01:21] <SteveA> hi mpt 
[01:21] <SteveA> mpt: I've mailed stub with a list of what we need to do to get beta.lp.net running against production.
[01:22] <SteveA> did you merge from mainline recently?  if not, please don't.  I'm going to merge up to the last revision rolled out,
[01:22] <SteveA> so that we can start running beta without an additional mainline rollout
[01:23] <SteveA> I've asked lifeless to turn off the auto-merge to ui-one-zero from mainline
[01:24] <SteveA> we'll turn it back on later, with an edge-style merge, to ensure we don't get database-related code
[01:41] <LarstiQ> SteveA: yes
[01:53] <SteveA> I'm having a housewarming on the evening of saturday 2 dec, in amsterdam.  Consider youself invited.
[02:00] <radix> can I come?
[02:01] <LarstiQ> SteveA: cool! what's the address? And do you know what the best way to reach it by public transport is yet? :)
[02:02] <SteveA> radix: sure.
[02:04] <radix> Thanks for inviting me, but I don't think I'll be able to make it.
[02:08] <SteveA> morning stub
[02:13] <SteveA> radix: I'm disappointed.
[02:17] <SteveA> I'd reserved a place for you and *everything*
[02:18] <somerville32> Can I come?
[02:20] <somerville32> ...
[02:25] <SteveA> somerville32: have we met?  you need to have met me before being invited to my parties
[02:25] <somerville32> Ok. <g>
[02:25] <somerville32> My names Cody. :)
[02:26] <somerville32> _o/
[02:27] <SteveA> commander cody?
[02:27] <somerville32> Commander Cody, Doctor Cody, Loner Cody... it all fits. : )
[02:28] <SteveA> cool.  you live anywhere near amsterdam?
[02:28] <somerville32> Not at all :)
[02:28] <somerville32> I live in Canada.
[02:36] <SteveA> that's near!
[02:36] <SteveA> it's in the same hemisphere.  can't get much nearer than that.
[02:50] <stub> Morning
[02:51] <somerville32> Hi Stuby :] 
[02:51] <stub> SteveA: Still jetlagged, eh?
[03:02] <lifeless> did we just change some part of the url mapping yesterday ?
[03:02] <lifeless> 404 error count just tripled overnight
[03:04] <SteveA> stub: just a tad
[03:08] <SteveA> I went back east to the netherlands.  My bodyclock just kept going west
[03:08] <SteveA> I think it's in tibet now
[03:08] <SteveA> we'll be happily reunited sometime next week
[03:12] <SteveA> stub: thanks for the email about beta.lp.net.  I asked lifeless to turn off the automated merges.  I'll do them manually for a couple of weeks before we turn on something automated.
[03:12] <SteveA> the rest looks fine.  elmo said we could have a new box for it, but maybe it would be as easy to use gandwana
[03:12] <lifeless> SteveA: is that in email ?
[03:12] <SteveA> is what in email?
[03:12] <lifeless> I asked lifeless to turn off the automated merges
[03:13] <SteveA> yes
[03:13] <SteveA> I emailed you
[03:18] <lifeless> thanks
[03:19] <lifeless> SteveA: done
[03:19] <SteveA> thanks
[03:35] <poolie> hello hackers
[03:35] <poolie> it would be nice if old releases faded from the product page
[03:36] <lifeless> file a spec or bug ?
[05:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[05:32] <LarstiQ> good night mpt :)
[05:32] <ajmitch> evening mpt 
[05:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73079 in launchpad "Launchpad: Membership status change on team  messages should list who performed the change" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73079
[06:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73080 in malone "Can't search for public/private/security/non-security bug reports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73080
[06:50] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73083 in malone "E-mail notification does not include any setting of milestones" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73083
[08:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73093 in launchpad "Oldest of many series should not be on product page" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73093
[08:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73094 in launchpad "Product page should order series by importance, releases in order" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73094
[09:53] <SteveA> morning
[09:57] <carlos> morning
[10:17] <glatzor> morning carlos.
[10:18] <carlos> glatzor: hi
[10:18] <glatzor> carlos: I feel sorry to only contact you in the case of problems :)
[10:18] <glatzor> But the the German GNOM upstream translators complained about Rosetta recently
[10:19] <carlos> about?
[10:19] <glatzor> They changed all ellipses to the unicode character.
[10:19] <glatzor> But you can still find the old three points in edgy. So there seem to be some import errors.
[10:20] <glatzor> could this also be related to the po upload issue?
[10:20] <carlos> glatzor: well, it depends on when did they change it
[10:20] <carlos> if it's post release, it's "correct"
[10:21] <glatzor> post release of edgy?
[10:21] <glatzor> no. it was done some months ago.
[10:21] <carlos> hmm
[10:22] <carlos> could I get a reference to a template with the issue?
[10:24] <glatzor> in epiphany-browser there should be "Lesezeichen hinzufgen " but it is "Lesezeichen hinzufgen..."
[10:26] <carlos> ok
[10:26] <carlos> let me check
[10:29] <mpt> hi SteveA 
[10:30] <SteveA> morning mpt and carlos 
[10:32] <carlos> SteveA: morning
[10:33] <mpt> SteveA, were you able to fix the brilliant server?
[10:34] <glatzor> carlos: it seems that gtk+ missed all changes. 
[10:34] <SteveA> mpt: I have access to it now.
[10:34] <SteveA> mpt: I need to do various update and conflict resolution things, then I can get latest code on there
[10:34] <SteveA> mpt: what branch are you working on?
[10:35] <carlos> glatzor: the .po file has that change
[10:35] <carlos> glatzor: next language pack generation should include it
[10:36] <glatzor> carlos: could there be some other issues, too? the ... issue was a visible one.
[10:37] <carlos> I didn't fix it
[10:37] <SteveA> stub: hypothetically, if the "edge" pqm rules that reject database changes allow a database change to slip through, would the breakage be confined to the edge server?  I want to check that a database update script won't be accidentally applied to production.  I'm expecting not, as these aren't ever run automatically on production.
[10:37] <carlos> I mean that Rosetta already had the change you told me
[10:37] <carlos> I guess we got it late
[10:37] <stub> SteveA: The breakage would be confined to the edge server.
[10:37] <carlos> so any other missing change should also be deployed
[10:39] <carlos> glatzor: wait.. it makes no sense
[10:39] <glatzor> carlos: but some apps of the gnome 2.16.2 release include the changes
[10:40] <carlos> glatzor: last change in that file should be already in final Edgy....
[10:40] <carlos> glatzor: Rosetta has the right data, so seems to be an issue with language packs
[10:40] <carlos> glatzor: I will investigate it
[10:40] <glatzor> carlos: e.g. evolution doesn't seem to have this issue
[10:40] <glatzor> thanks carlos.
[10:41] <carlos> glatzor: thanks for warn me about it
[10:43] <glatzor> carlos: i have to leave for work. so long!
[10:43] <carlos> glatzor: cheers!
[10:56] <mpt> SteveA, 2006-08-ui
[10:57] <SteveA> mpt: ok, I'm putting that on brilliant now
[10:57] <mpt> What should I merge into it? Your ui branch?
[10:57] <SteveA> mpt: did you get my comments about not merging from RF devel head?
[10:57] <mpt> yes
[10:57] <mpt> That's why I'm asking
[10:57] <mpt> or maybe I didn't read them thoroughly
[10:57] <SteveA> ok.  I'm keeping my ui branch merged with the correct revision of rocketfuel
[10:58] <SteveA> so, you can merge from my ui branch safely
[10:58] <SteveA> there have been no conflicts lately, although there are some tests that need fixing to be more specific on mainline
[10:58] <SteveA> I'll be doing that today, as that's a precondition for getting beta automated
[10:58] <mpt> ok
[11:07] <SteveA> mpt: your latest code, and code up to the correct revision in RF, is on brilliant now
[11:07] <mpt> great, thanks
[11:08] <mpt> Did you look at the other problem at all?
[11:08] <SteveA> I have many problems.
[11:08] <mpt> The one where Usman couldn't access the site
[11:08] <SteveA> well...
[11:08] <SteveA> that one would be caused by brilliant's move to a new office
[11:08] <SteveA> and unplugging the server in the process, I think
[11:09] <SteveA> we'll have to see about that when they move teh server to their new offices next week
[11:09] <mpt> ok
[11:09] <SteveA> so, the move is scheduled for monday
[11:09] <mpt> And a final question for this evening
[11:09] <SteveA> when elmo is back at work
[11:09] <mpt> Did you intend the Launchpad build number to appear in Launchpad's footer on production?
[11:09] <SteveA> yes, I did
[11:09] <mpt> well, either way, it's not working :-)
[11:10] <SteveA> please be more specific
[11:10] <mpt> It says "build unknown"
[11:10] <SteveA> that would be something for stub to look into
[11:10] <SteveA> please file a bug
[11:11] <stub> It is already fixed in HEAD
[11:11] <mpt> okie dokie
[11:11] <SteveA> stub: what had gone wrong?
[11:11] <stub> The code that generated the version .py file was only being executed from 'make run', and we use 'make start' on production to run as a daemon.
[11:12] <SteveA> I see
[11:14] <stub> I suspect that the current display will give us ambiguous results. It reports just the revision number. That revision number is incremented on every cherry pick. So it it fairly meaningless without checking the actual branch, and if you are checking the actual branch then you can get the information from that source instead - doesn't need to be displayed on every web page.
[11:15] <SteveA> kiko wanted this number for some QA function, so we should ask kiko what it's used for.
[11:17] <stub> If it is just for kiko, it might be best to render it as an HTML comment instead of visible on every page.
[11:19] <stub> Appending the branch nickname or date (both of which bzr version-info gives us) would be more correct if we have a real use case.
[11:20] <SteveA> python test.py -f canonical.launchpad.ftests.test_system_documentation
[11:20] <SteveA> when I do that, I get an error:
[11:20] <SteveA> canonical.testing.layers.LayerInvariantError: Component architecture should not be available
[11:20] <SteveA> how do I fix this?
[11:23] <stub> Its an open bug
[11:23] <SteveA> and...
[11:23] <SteveA> a bug in zope or in launchpad?
[11:24] <stub> there isn't a fix yet. A bug in our test layers, or maybe Zope3's test runner (the bit I added)
[11:24] <SteveA> any workaround?
[11:24] <stub> You can work around it by being more explicit in selecting what tests to run in most cases I think
[11:25] <SteveA> I'm being very explicit
[11:25] <stub> You are selecting over a dozen tests using almost every layer we have
[11:25] <stub> --test=canonical_url.txt would be explicit
[11:26] <stub> Also, --layer= would workaround the bug
[11:26] <stub> Just run once for each Layer being used.
[11:27] <stub> (which assumes you know what they are...)
[11:27] <SteveA> can't I just say "screw this invariant" ?
[11:28] <stub> You can try removing it and seeing what happens. I suspect your tests will still fail though, just more mysteriously
[11:28] <stub> I don't know if I have tried that particular invariant though
[11:29] <SteveA> where does fixing this appear in your list of things to do?
[11:29] <SteveA> do any of our infrastructure team have knowledge to fix this?
[11:33] <stub> Its my highest priority bug. I want to finish pillar name urls first, and land the two branches of mine in the review queue first if that doesn't cause great hardship.
[11:34] <SteveA> sounds good
[11:34] <stub> Anyone can look into wtf is going on - the layer stuff is well documented. I'm most familiar with the code though since I wrote most of our end and the Z3 end.
[11:34] <stub> So the bug is almost certainly my fault ;)
[11:34] <SteveA> I'm pretty clueless about the details of layers.  I *think* I know what they are for.
[11:34] <Keybuk> I so read that as "lawyers"
[11:34] <stub> There is some nice documentation and doctests
[11:36] <stub> lib/zope/testing/testrunner-layers-api.txtlib/zope/testing/testrunner-layers-api.txt
[11:36] <stub> Plenty of other doctests in there too, but I don't think it is particularly good documentation in the most part
[11:36] <stub> (which is why I wrote that file)
[11:36] <cprov> morning
[11:37] <SteveA> hi cprov !
[11:37] <cprov> hi SteveA !
[11:40] <cprov> stub: hi, can you check another RT for me ?  https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=24173, this one is related to a Zope Mail system error, non-critical, though
[11:40] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73116 in soyuz "Source package pages don't describe what the package is for" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73116
[11:48] <stub> SteveA: We did decide on /+code and not /code didn't we?
[11:49] <SteveA> for what exactly?
[11:49] <SteveA> for the root, really code.lp.net, but at /+code as an implementation detail
[11:49] <SteveA> I don't think we want products called "code" though
[11:50] <SteveA> that would be like having a breakfast cereal called "food"
[11:50] <stub> I've already added code to the name blacklist. Just I managed to use both /code and /+code on this branch (which the tests are now telling me about) and I was wondering which was correct.
[11:51] <SteveA> go for +code
[11:51] <SteveA> people should never see it in practice though
[11:51] <stub> It is visible if you are using xmlrpc
[12:20] <salgado> mpt, around?
[12:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73123 in malone "The generic "Report a bug in a package" page should go away" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73123
[12:21] <kiko> that's a dupe. 
[12:21] <kiko> BjornT, was that you?
[12:21] <SteveA> see, I want an irc bot
[12:21] <SteveA> where you can say "ircbot: that's a dupe"
[12:21] <SteveA> and it'll do the right thing
[12:21] <salgado> without you even telling it what's the bug it's a dupe of?
[12:22] <BjornT> kiko: yeah. i couldn't find a bug for it, so i reported a new one. was there already one reported?
[12:22] <mpt> salgado, I really should be asleep, but ... sure :-)
[12:22] <mpt> What's up?
[12:22] <salgado> mpt, I left two easy questions for you on PillarGotchis; have you seem them?
[12:23] <salgado> (I think I even emailed you about them)
[12:23] <kiko> BjornT, hmmm. IIRC bradb had filed one!
[12:23] <mpt> Ah, I'm not subscribed to that spec
[12:24] <mpt> salgado, so the answer to the second question probably would be "mugshot" for people, and "icon" for everything else
[12:24] <mpt> (including teams)
[12:25] <kiko> mpt, mugshot?!
[12:25] <mpt> salgado, and the answer to the first question is bug 2422
[12:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2422 in launchpad "A (non-team) person can still set an emblem" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2422
[12:25] <mpt> and bug 6491
[12:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6491 in launchpad "No direct way of editing hackergotchi of a team" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6491
[12:27] <mpt> kiko, this is assuming that the term "hackergotchi" isn't well-known outside Gnome
[12:27] <mpt> I might be wrong about that
[12:30] <salgado> mpt, ah, cool. thanks for that. I'll upload the spec to say that we'll use mugshot in the UI and wait for somebody to complain before we consider changing it
[12:32] <mpt> ok
[12:32] <mpt> Time for me to stop reporting bugs and go to sleep
[12:35] <mpt> salgado, so data-migration-wise: person.hackergotchi -> person.mugshot, team.emblem -> team.icon, person.emblem -> /dev/null, team.hackergotchi -> /dev/null
[12:35] <mpt> Does that make sense?
[12:36] <mpt> (actually maybe they should all be called "icon" under the hood, so main-template.pt can use "context/icon")
[12:36] <salgado> I think we want to keep team.emblem
[12:36] <salgado> or at least we need a smaller version of the team's icon
[12:37] <mpt> It won't be used anywhere, that I can think of
[12:37] <salgado> it's not used on a person's page, when that person is a member of the team?
[12:37] <kiko> mugshot means nothing to non-native english speakers IMO
[12:37] <salgado> today it is
[12:37] <mpt> Today it is
[12:37] <salgado> but it won't be anymore?
[12:38] <kiko> why not snapshot? photo? image? 
[12:40] <mpt> salgado, oh, yes, it will be
[12:40] <mpt> https://launchpad.canonical.com/OneZeroPersonPage
[12:40] <mpt> in place of the orange orbs, I guess
[12:41] <mpt> or maybe that's supposed to be a scaled-down version of the full icon
[12:50] <SteveA> salgado / mpt: data point, dick from sxip found the term "hackergotchi" foreign
[12:50] <SteveA> I had to spell it out, as he hadn't heard of tamagotchis
[12:50] <Spads> it doesn't help that "tamagotchi" is already a combination word in japanese
[12:51] <Spads> it's the word "egg" and "friend" smooshed together
[12:51] <kiko> I hadn't heard of hackergotchis either
[12:53] <SteveA> Spads: which part exactly is "egg"
[12:53] <Spads> SteveA: tamago = egg, tomodachi = friend
[12:54] <SteveA> I see.  So hackerachi would be a more morphologically correct composite
[12:54] <Spads>  + 
[12:54] <Spads> SteveA: if you wanted to just keep the 'friend' part and ditch the egg-nature
[12:54] <kiko> or hackerdachi
[12:55] <Spads> yeah
[12:55] <Spads> probably best to leave the japanese/english hybrid neologisms to someone fluent in both languages, though
[12:57] <Spads> heh, this dictionary has an interesting secondary definition for tamago:    (n) (1) egg(s); spawn; roe; (n) (2) (an expert) in the making; (P); EP
[12:58] <Spads> must be a hatching metaphor
[01:03] <SteveA> that doesn't appear in my uft-8 challenged combination of screen, terminals and irssi
[01:04] <Keybuk> why isn't the blueprints milestone list for a product filtered to only that product's milestones?
[01:51] <SteveA> kiko: 
[03:03] <SteveA> carlos: ping
[03:51] <carlos> SteveA: pong
[03:51] <SteveA> hi carlos
[03:51] <SteveA> where's danilo?
[03:52] <carlos> hmm, I don't know. I didn't talk with him today
[03:52] <carlos> yesterday, he was still a bit jet lagged
[03:52] <carlos> not sure whether it's the cause he's not online
[03:56] <SteveA> he's having lunch, will be around in under 1 hr
[03:57] <SteveA> so, we should all talk (you, danilo, kiko, me) when danilo is back
[03:57] <carlos> ok
[03:57] <carlos> I just had lunch so I'm available at any time
[04:04] <SteveA> ok, great
[04:04] <salgado> so, our production/staging librarian answers https requests. can we get our test librarian to do the same?
[04:20] <carlos> SteveA: btw, what will we talk about?
[04:20] <carlos> Rosetta DB changes?
[04:29] <SteveA> carlos: work in progress, blockers, etc.
[04:29] <carlos> ok
[04:29] <SteveA> carlos: kiko and I are going out to get lunch.  back in a short while.
[04:29] <carlos> ok
[04:48] <danilos> kiko-fud, SteveA: ping
[05:00] <carlos> danilos: they left to have lunch
[05:01] <SteveA> I'm back now
[05:01] <carlos> SteveA: that was fast
[05:01] <SteveA> let's talk on #launchpad-meeting
[05:01] <danilos> carlos, SteveA: ok, so only kiko missing :)
[05:33] <kiko-fud> I am here
[05:33] <kiko-fud> what's this about missing?
[05:34] <danilos> kiko: I was just expressing some emotions ;)
[06:15] <flacoste> salgado: ping
[06:15] <salgado> flacoste, pong
[06:16] <flacoste> salgado: you have bug 53292 assigned, do you still plan to work on that?
[06:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53292 in launchpad-support-tracker "Create/follow support requests through a mailing list" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53292
[06:16] <salgado> flacoste, is it assigned to me?
[06:17] <flacoste> (i just remove the assignment, but thought about asking you in case there is something i don't know)
[06:17] <flacoste> it was
[06:17] <flacoste> btw, the user who requested that feature finally won't be using Launchpad for support handling (hplip product), management decided otherwise
[06:17] <salgado> ah, now I remember
[06:17] <salgado> exactly
[06:18] <salgado> I'm not sure that is actually something we should be working on, since the requester doesn't plan to use it anymore
[06:18] <salgado> what do you think?
[06:19] <flacoste> i agree, though i wouldn't reject the bug per se since the idea is interesting
[06:19] <flacoste> i'll change the priority to Wishlist though
[06:22] <salgado> yeah, that's what I was going to suggest
[07:18] <carlos> this is weird....
[07:18] <carlos> danilos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/epiphany-browser/+pots/epiphany/de/+upload
[07:18] <carlos> danilos: are you able to reach that upload form?
[07:33] <salgado> kiko, what do you think of the question I left at https://launchpad.canonical.com/PillarGotchis ?
[07:34] <kiko> salgado, resizing an image to become an emblem is not very easy
[07:34] <kiko> it requires a lot of manual tweaking
[07:35] <salgado> really? why?
[07:35] <kiko> because 150px is very different to 20
[07:35] <kiko> look at our favicon for launchpad
[07:36] <kiko> or even better our favicon for async
[07:36] <kiko> and the async logo
[07:36] <kiko> the favicon is not the logo reduced
[07:36] <kiko> was that the question, btw? :-)
[07:37] <kiko> carlos, I am.
[07:37] <kiko> but I'm an admin
[07:37] <kiko> carlos, do you want me to check as a random luser?
[07:37] <carlos> kiko: yeah, seems like I should change sample data...
[07:37] <kiko> ah
[07:37] <carlos> kiko: I did a mistake with tests and only Launchpad admins are able to reach it
[07:38] <carlos> so neither danilo or I are able to do uploads
[07:38] <kiko> ha ha
[07:38] <carlos> because I'm and admin in sample data but not on production
[07:38] <carlos> grr
[07:38] <kiko> well I can upload if you like
[07:38] <kiko> just give me the file.
[07:38] <kiko> my +translations will get fubared though
[07:38] <carlos> fubared?
[07:38] <kiko> I would rather that form allowed admins to upload on other people's behalf.
[07:39] <kiko> well will include stuff in german
[07:39] <kiko> even though I can only say "it is a love story" in german
[07:39] <carlos> kiko: don't worry, I have a 'workaround' (only available to Rosetta admins)
[07:39] <carlos> so I can handle it
[07:39] <kiko> ah, ok.
[07:40] <kiko> carlos, what about the "import on other people's behalf" idea?
[07:40] <carlos> well, you can do it already
[07:41] <carlos> if the .po header has a last translator field with a different person name than the one uploading it
[07:41] <carlos> the one in .po header will get the credit
[07:42] <kiko> I see.
[07:42] <kiko> that's a bit controversial
[07:44] <carlos> why?
[07:44] <carlos> it's metadata, and translators should update that metadata
[07:44] <LarstiQ> akin to the debian/ubuntu maintainer situation I suppose
[07:45] <carlos> we do it when the files are exported
[07:45] <kiko> well
[07:45] <kiko> the file may have been translated by many people
[07:45] <carlos> LarstiQ: not really, the credit is only for the changes over what we have in our database
[07:45] <carlos> not for the whole content
[07:45] <kiko> you only know who the last person updating it
[07:46] <LarstiQ> carlos: supposedly, the same would be true for debian changelogs
[07:48] <LarstiQ> carlos: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+source/kommando/+changelog however is different from http://librarian.launchpad.net/3280119/kommando_0.4.1-2ubuntu1.diff.gz
[07:50] <cprov> LarstiQ: +changelog is busted :(
[07:50] <kiko> +changelog /is/ busted
[07:50] <kiko> yes
[07:50] <LarstiQ> cprov: what are it's prospects?
[07:51] <kiko> LarstiQ, fixing it is non-trivial
[07:51] <kiko> and there's a long stack of stuff that is on u
[07:51] <kiko> s
[07:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55795 in soyuz "+changelog includes misleading information related to package versions and authors" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55795
[07:52] <LarstiQ> kiko: is there anything I could do to facilitate it's solvedness?
[07:52] <cprov> LarstiQ: afaics, changes field in changesfiles is not correct, it's collapses changes versions
[07:52] <kiko> LarstiQ, hmmm
[07:53] <kiko> carlos, so I think it's worth considering setting translator to NULL and setting approver to the uploader
[07:53] <kiko> that still leaves the question of what to attribute to the person who uploads the file as suggestions.
[07:54] <kiko> but miscrediting suggestions that way is hardly a big deal.
[07:54] <LarstiQ> cprov: iirc, it gets the entries from .dsc files on upload
[07:56] <cprov> LarstiQ: no, it doesn't, the information presented in +changelog comes from the changesfile, which is the wrong approach, indeed.
[07:58] <LarstiQ> what is the next step?
[07:58] <cprov> LarstiQ: we should build the source based on orig + diff and then get the correspondent (last) changelog entry
[08:00] <LarstiQ> what does that do with in between changelog entries of versions that only got uploaded to debian?
[08:03] <cprov> LarstiQ: noting the debian version as they were ubuntu versions in the changesfile is, IMO, the mistake 
[08:04] <LarstiQ> cprov: right, it looks like those entries of kommando were done by Sarah Hobbs, whilst in actuality it was Sune Vuorela (who pointed me at it ftr)
[08:06] <cprov> LarstiQ: and the changes was signed by Stephan Hermann, wtf ?
[08:09] <cprov> LarstiQ: well, it's a mess, this feature cause a lot of trouble and misunderstandings with developers, despite the fact it generates broken links. 
[08:10] <cprov> LarstiQ: but the worst thing is that I don't know what is the right thing to do.
[08:12] <cprov> LarstiQ: the source release authoring belongs to Sarah, and we can't easily find the authors of the inner (debian) changes
[08:13] <LarstiQ> not something I'm familiar with
[08:13] <cprov> LarstiQ: a simplistic approach would be blaming Sarah by writing the confusing changesfile :(
[08:14] <LarstiQ> cprov: what does that thing add over debian/changelog?
[08:14] <cprov> LarstiQ: you can found the changesfile in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=kommando
[08:15] <LarstiQ> I mean, I'm familiar with generating a changes file during package build, but not with it ending up in the diff
[08:15] <cprov> LarstiQ: well, it doesn't add anything to the changelog, we simply assume the Changes: would contain the last changelog entry
[08:17] <LarstiQ> it's clear to me the ubuntu packaging/upload process is different enough from Debian that I'll need to study it before digging deeper
[08:17] <cprov> LarstiQ: uhm, I'm not sure if the changesfile should be part of the diff or not, probably not.
[08:18] <cprov> LarstiQ: yeah, it's generated outside the source tree, it should no be part of the diff.
[08:18] <LarstiQ> ok, at least my understanding was correct there then :0
[08:21] <cprov> LarstiQ: you are absolutely right in all the aspects, the +changelog is horrible and leads to mistakes.
[08:22] <cprov> LarstiQ: but, as I said, I'm not sure if the last entry of the debian/changelog would describe this package appropriately.
[08:23] <LarstiQ> why not include the entire debian/changelog?
[08:24] <cprov> LarstiQ: well, changelog info is incremental we don't want to end up with o lot of duplicated text in DB
[08:25] <cprov> LarstiQ: but a feasible solution would be to store the whole chunk between 0.3.0-1ubuntu1 & 0.4.1-2ubuntu1 in that case
[08:25] <LarstiQ> good point. How do you deal with diverging changelogs?
[08:27] <cprov> LarstiQ: what do you mean by "diverging" ? the ubuntu developer deal with them creating proper description associated with the version suffix (-ubuntu[IDX] )
[08:27] <cprov> s\developer\developers
[08:29] <LarstiQ> cprov: the changelog of a package in a given upload is not a strict superset of what is already there
[08:30] <LarstiQ> entries can be rolled back, or some be different
[08:30] <LarstiQ> or even the entry for a given version can change between uploads
[08:32] <cprov> LarstiQ: well, it would be a big mess, I'm not sure if the debian policy allows that.
[08:33] <cprov> LarstiQ: the versions must be unique
[08:33] <LarstiQ> it happens for sure
[08:34] <LarstiQ> perhaps not that often, since it _is_ frowned upon
[08:34] <cprov> LarstiQ: uhm, them we are more wrong than I though, because the we assume version integrity for sure
[08:34] <LarstiQ> but different lines of development for experimental and sid do happen more often
[08:36] <cprov> LarstiQ: awful, can you add a comment about this in the mentioned bug ? then we can ask for distro team help ...
[08:39] <cprov> LarstiQ: if it's true, maybe we should just stick the changelog file in librarian and let people deal with it ("eliminating problem" phase, you know ...)
[08:41] <cprov> LarstiQ: good, thank you very much for discussing it with us, looking forward to see your comments/evidences in the bug.
[08:55] <kiko> salgado, ping?
[08:56] <salgado> kiko, pong
[08:56] <kiko> salgado, so, I was reading through
[08:56] <kiko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DynamicMirrorDecisions
[08:56] <kiko> salgado, is RSS only offered for cd mirrors or for both types?
[08:57] <salgado> kiko, both, as of last roll out
[08:57] <kiko> salgado, we should probably update that spec. Can you give me the two sample URLs for Ubuntu so I can?
[08:57] <salgado> apt is not going to use the RSSs
[08:58] <salgado> kiko, bug 72110 and bug 72237
[08:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72110 in launchpad "Need to provide a way for anonymous users to get a list of archive mirrors on their country (or continent, if there's none in their country)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72110
[08:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72237 in launchpad "Store failure reports sent by apt about mirrors" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72237
[08:59] <kiko> salgado, can you read the first two paragraphs of DMD?
[08:59] <salgado> I talked with elmo at AllHands and we agreed that this is what is going to be implemented for the first iteration of DMD
[08:59] <salgado> they're not going to implement the full spec at once
[09:00] <cprov> kiko: do you have time for phone call ?
[09:00] <kiko> salgado, sure, I'm just intending to leave the spec accurate
[09:00] <kiko> cprov, yes, in a bit
[09:00] <cprov> kiko: sure
[09:01] <salgado> kiko, the rss URLs are at the bottom of the page, btw
[09:01] <kiko> salgado, is the second paragraph wrong or not?
[09:02] <salgado> I don't see anything wrong with the first two paragraphs
[09:04] <kiko> well it says
[09:04] <kiko> Currently Launchpad only offers mirror information as a web page.
[09:04] <kiko> which I don't think is true as of the last rollout
[09:04] <salgado> well, that's not the second paragraph that I have here
[09:05] <salgado> In order to keep an Ubuntu system up to date...
[09:05] <salgado> this is the second paragraph
[09:06] <kiko> salgado, of the Design section.
[09:06] <kiko> sorry, I didn't say that though I thought I did
[09:07] <salgado> I guess we could leave just the part that says that launchpad will have to present the data in a standard/parseable way
[09:08] <salgado> it already provides RSS, but it's very likely that we're not going to use it
[09:08] <salgado> maybe link to bug 72110 from there...
[09:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72110 in launchpad "Need to provide a way for anonymous users to get a list of archive mirrors on their country (or continent, if there's none in their country)" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72110
[09:09] <kiko> ok.
[09:12] <flacoste> kiko, salgado: any idea why I would get   File "/home/francis/Launchpad/trivial/lib/canonical/testing/layers.py", line 170, in setUp
[09:12] <flacoste>     LibrarianTestSetup().setUp()
[09:12] <flacoste>   File "/home/francis/Launchpad/trivial/lib/canonical/launchpad/daemons/tachandler.py", line 61, in setUp
[09:12] <flacoste>     raise TacException('Unable to start %s' % (self.tacfile,))
[09:12] <flacoste> canonical.launchpad.daemons.tachandler.TacException: Unable to start /home/francis/Launchpad/trivial/daemons/librarian.tac
[09:12] <flacoste> when running ./test.py ?
[09:12] <kiko> flacoste, is a librarian already running?
[09:12] <flacoste> ps ax|grep python doesn't show anything
[09:12] <flacoste> could it be a lock file left lying around?
[09:13] <flacoste> lingering socket?
[09:13] <salgado> maybe. have you checked /var/tmp/fatsam.test/ ?
[09:13] <kiko> right. that's the other potential issue.
[09:13] <carlos> flacoste: Edgy?
[09:14] <flacoste> carlos: no way!
[09:14] <flacoste> ls /var/tmp/fatsam.test gives:
[09:14] <flacoste> incoming  librarian.log  librarian.pid
[09:14] <flacoste> but there is no process with the PID in librarian.pid
[09:14] <salgado> remove the .pid?
[09:14] <flacoste> should I rm -fr that directory
[09:15] <salgado> I'd expect it to remove the .pid file if there was no process with that pid running, no?
[09:15] <flacoste> I rm -fr the thing and ran the test again with the same results
[09:15] <salgado> just the .pid should be enough
[09:15] <flacoste> the log gives:
[09:15] <flacoste> 2006/11/25 01:44 IST [-]  twisted.internet.error.CannotListenError: Couldn't listen on any:58000: (98, 'Address already in use').
[09:15] <salgado> do you have the .pid back there?
[09:15] <flacoste> lingering socket it seems
[09:15] <salgado> yeah
[09:17] <salgado> gotta go
[09:19] <flacoste> bummer, another application had opened a socket on that port :-(
[09:19] <flacoste> not even a listening socket for that matter
[09:19] <kiko> that's odd.
[09:20] <flacoste> well, 58000 is a number that can be used for that
[09:21] <flacoste> [francis@Huxley trivial] $ cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_local_port_range
[09:21] <flacoste> 32768   61000
[09:22] <flacoste> so 28000 would be a better default port
[09:24] <flacoste> btw, what fatsam means?
[09:24] <flacoste> as in /var/tmp/fatsam.test ?
[09:24] <kiko> now THAT is a good question
[09:31] <carlos> Sam aka 'the fat', the one that eats all our files!
[09:31] <carlos> ;-)
[09:33] <LarstiQ> flotsam/
[09:33] <kiko> that too
[09:33] <flacoste> carlos: is this for real?
[09:33] <carlos> flacoste: that's my guess
[09:33] <flacoste> wow
[09:34] <carlos> I guess spiv would be the one answering that
[09:34] <flacoste> The Librarian aka Fat Sam
[09:40] <somerville32> Heu
[09:41] <somerville32> Who should I talk to about changing the translation contact for a language?
[09:42] <kiko> somerville32, hmm. can you be more specific?
[09:42] <somerville32> Sure :)
[09:43] <somerville32> Andrew Hunter is the owner of Ubuntu English (Canada) Translation Team
[09:43] <somerville32> But Andrew Hunter is the translator for English (CA) instead of Ubuntu English (Canada) Translation Team
[09:43] <kiko> what's English (CA) versus English (Canada)? Is that california?
[09:44] <kiko> who would the right owner be?
[09:44] <somerville32> English (Canada)
[09:44] <somerville32> CA is short for Canada
[09:44] <somerville32> Sorry
[09:44] <carlos> somerville32: then, I'm lost...
[09:44] <kiko> indeed.
[09:44] <somerville32> English (Canada)  	Andrew Hunter   	Change   	2006-07-19
[09:44] <kiko> either I or you have had too much mescaline today.
[09:44] <somerville32> Andrew Hunter is the English (Canada) Translator.
[09:45] <kiko> so far so good.
[09:45] <carlos> unless you want to be the coordinator/owner of that team or you are and he was just faster than you creating it...
[09:45] <somerville32> And I'd like to change that to the  Ubuntu English (Canada) Translation Team
[09:45] <somerville32> No no
[09:45] <somerville32> He created that team
[09:45] <carlos> aah
[09:45] <somerville32> So I assume it is just an oversight
[09:45] <carlos> sorry, I missed the 'Ubuntu' word
[09:45] <carlos> ;-)
[09:46] <kiko> carlos, do you know what needs to be done?
[09:46] <carlos> I think so, yes
[09:46] <carlos> kiko: atm, Andrew is a single translator for en_CA
[09:46] <carlos> kiko: somerville32 is asking us to change that to allow more than one member
[09:47] <kiko> oh
[09:47] <kiko> gotcha
[09:47] <kiko> carlos, wanna do it?
[09:47] <carlos> kiko: yes, Mark asked us to create teams only when there is more than one person interested on that language
[09:47] <carlos> that's why we didn't do it in the first place
[09:48] <carlos> somerville32: there is no ubuntu-l10n-en-ca team
[09:48] <somerville32> canadian-english
[09:48] <carlos> somerville32: to be able to do what you request, you need to talk with Andrew and create that team first
[09:48] <kiko> or standardize the name
[09:49] <carlos> oh, wrong name, yes, please, rename it to ubuntu-l10n-en-ca
[09:49] <somerville32> I can't, haha. Andrew is the owner of that team.
[09:49] <carlos> ok
[09:50] <carlos> I'm doing the change now
[09:50] <carlos> but
[09:50] <carlos> either Andrew or kiko (is a launchpad admin) should do the rename
[09:50] <kiko> I can do it
[09:50] <carlos> kiko: thanks
[09:51] <carlos> somerville32: the team is now set
[09:51] <kiko> somerville32, how much will you pay me to fix it?
[09:51] <somerville32> haha
[09:51] <kiko> hmm, I guess you won't fall for that one
[09:52] <somerville32> :] 
[09:52] <kiko> done, then
[09:52] <carlos> anyone knows what's English (US Fargo)  ?
[09:53] <kiko> lol
[09:54] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-en-us-fargo
[09:56] <somerville32> :] 
[09:56] <somerville32> So, is anyone working on that karma graph thingie I inspired? haha
[09:56] <kiko> remind me all about it
[09:57] <somerville32> Someone filed a bug report.
[09:57] <somerville32> Let me go get it
[09:59] <flacoste> about the US Fargo translation team: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-au/2006-August/000515.html
[10:03] <somerville32> Bug #71020
[10:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71020 in launchpad "Tell people where they are on the karma scale" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71020
[10:16] <somerville32> What language(s) is Launchpad coded in?
[10:16] <lifeless> python
[10:17] <somerville32> Oh really?
[10:17] <somerville32> Cool.
[10:17] <somerville32> Can anyone help with lp development or do you need to be "special"? haha :] 
[10:18] <kiko> well..
[10:18] <kiko> anyone that is willing to sign an NDA can help.
[10:19] <lifeless> the source for lp is not released - its a proprietary code base, delivered as a service. Community folk that are genuinely interested in helping have been granted access under an NDA 
[10:19] <somerville32> Would there be an expectations to do regular work?
[10:19] <somerville32> *any
[10:20] <kiko> well, there are some expectations that you put enough effort to do at least some valuable work
[10:20] <carlos> somerville32: well, at least something, just having access to the code without contributing anything... is useless for both parts (Canonical and you)
[10:21] <somerville32> Would I be expected to attend developer meetings?
[10:21] <lifeless> no
[10:21] <kiko> but if you did good work you might be invited!
[10:22] <somerville32> lol
[10:22] <lifeless> its an NDA, not an employment contract :). 
[10:22] <somerville32> hehe
[10:25] <somerville32> I don't think I'm really qualified. I mean, I have lots of experience with programming but I only taught myself Python earlier this month... I'd be scarred I'd screw something up or that I'd be a disappointment.
[10:26] <somerville32> I just wouldn't want to waste anybody's time signing an NDA and then finding out that I wouldn't be much help anyhow.
[10:30] <somerville32> :] 
[10:43] <Mez> lp down ?
[11:05] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73186 in malone "Duplicate bugs retain milestone" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73186
[12:15] <spiv> carlos, flacoste: actually, Steve is responsible for the name "fatsam", although I'm responsible for not entirely excising the old name when we started calling it the librarian...