[12:41] <_MMA_> Hello guys. What would stop this from getting in Multiverse? http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/fst
[12:50] <theCore> anyone knows who is in charge of the mailing lists?
[01:05] <theCore> would it possible the update the version of XChat in Edgy?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> no
[01:05] <VoX> that was easy :)
[01:06] <theCore> is there a way to fix 57951?
[01:06] <theCore> bug 57951
[01:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57951 in xchat "xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
[01:06] <theCore> I think that bug is starting to annoy people...
[01:07] <VoX> just tell them to use irssi
[01:07] <theCore> VoX, pfft ...
[01:07] <Hobbsee> theCore: to bugfix, yes.  for a new version, no
[01:09] <theCore> Hobbsee, so I would need to find the bug and add a patch in the package?
[01:11] <Hobbsee> theCore: or find the part in cvs that fixes it, and add that as a patch, yes
[01:11] <lifepositive> hi
[01:12] <Laser_away> theCore: has the bug been isolated?
[01:12] <theCore> LaserJock, nope
[01:12] <LaserJock> I've never had it happen
[01:14] <lifepositive> LaserJock: hello
[01:16] <LaserJock> lifepositive: hi
[01:17] <lifepositive> :)
[01:26] <joejaxx> LaserJock:
[01:26] <joejaxx>    - Copy of the new debian/changelog entries
[01:26] <joejaxx> what does that part mean of the merge sync request
[01:33] <theCore> bizarre, the vanilla version of Xchat, doesn't crash
[01:34] <Hobbsee> so it's in one of hte ubuntu patches?
[01:34] <LaserJock> joejaxx: means you need to carry the changelogs Debian has added since the last Ubuntu version
[01:34] <joejaxx> LaserJock: ok thanks :)
[01:35] <joejaxx> in this case it means the hold file
[01:35] <theCore> Hobbsee, I don't know
[01:35] <theCore> Hobbsee, I need to do more testing
[01:38] <LaserJock> doh
[01:40] <joejaxx> LaserJock: yeah this package is no in ubuntu haha
[01:41] <LaserJock> joejaxx: what?
[01:41] <joejaxx> not*
[01:42] <joejaxx> LaserJock: they packages i am requesting a merge/sync for is not in ubuntu
[01:42] <joejaxx> so i have to include the whole changelog i guess
[01:43] <LaserJock> joejaxx: does it need to be merged?
[01:43] <joejaxx> yeah from debian
[01:44] <LaserJock> or rather ubuntuized
[01:44] <joejaxx> yeah
[01:44] <joejaxx> yes*
[01:44] <LaserJock> why?
[01:44] <ajmitch> so the package is in debian, but not in ubuntu, and you want to make further changes before having it uploaded?
[01:45] <joejaxx> no
[01:45] <joejaxx> just to have it sync'd to ubuntu
[01:45] <LaserJock> that's what I asked
[01:46] <LaserJock> merged = changes need to be made
[01:46] <LaserJock> synced = no changes necessary take straight from Debian
[01:46] <theCore> ok, the bug happens with the -ubuntu version
[01:47] <LaserJock> theCore: how do you cause the bug?
[01:47] <joejaxx> LaserJock: sorry about that
[01:47] <theCore> LaserJock, just close Xchat
[01:47] <LaserJock> theCore: how?
[01:47] <theCore> with the close [x]   button
[01:47] <LaserJock> joejaxx: np dude, just trying to be clear
[01:48] <theCore> LaserJock,  but I don't think it really matters how you close it
[01:48] <LaserJock> theCore: hmm, I use xchat on 2 machine regularly and I haven't had that happen
[01:48] <theCore> LaserJock, which version?
[01:48] <joejaxx> LaserJock: should this be just a regular bug?
[01:48] <LaserJock> theCore: edgy
[01:48] <theCore> bizarre
[01:48] <LaserJock> I thought it was odd when I heard of it
[01:48] <theCore> the bug is real, that is certain
[01:49] <LaserJock> yeah, but it doesn't seem to happen to everybody
[01:49] <LaserJock> so there must be something funky going on
[01:49] <LaserJock> joejaxx: I think just treat it as a normal sync, but say that it isn't in Ubuntu yet
[01:50] <joejaxx> LaserJock: no but i mean
[01:50] <theCore> hmm... what is that mg_safe_quit() function...
[01:50] <joejaxx> is it just a regular bug you file?
[01:50] <LaserJock> yep
[01:51] <joejaxx> ok
[01:51] <LaserJock> hmm, I found a packaging subforum
[01:52] <LaserJock> how fun
[01:52] <LaserJock> good side: they found a mistake in the packaging guide
[01:52] <LaserJock> bad side: somebody wants a GUI for checkinstall cause it's too hard
[01:53] <zul> ill say it again forums are evil
[01:53] <Hobbsee> zul: why in particular?
[01:53] <LaserJock> well, they found a mistake in the packging guide, that's good
[01:53] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh dear....
[01:53] <LaserJock> gotta take the good with the bad
[01:53] <zul> Hobbsee: because they want to use checkinstall
[01:54] <LaserJock> well, they didn't know any better
[01:54] <Hobbsee> if checkinstall is too hard, then they certainly shouldnt be compiling
[01:56] <LaserJock> hmm, maemo has an interesting little packaging guide
[01:56] <joejaxx> LaserJock: just paste the changelog in the bug?
[01:57] <LaserJock> sure, why not :-)
[01:57] <joejaxx> ok :)
[01:58] <theCore> no bug with the vanilla version
[01:58] <theCore> I am testing the ubuntu version now
[01:59] <LaserJock> joejaxx: generally you can't give too much info in a bug report
[02:01] <joejaxx> LaserJock: ah ok :)
[02:02] <joejaxx> haha lets see if it comes up in #-bugs
[02:02] <joejaxx> Bug #73071
[02:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73071 in Ubuntu "Sync Request: fst 1.9-1 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73071
[02:04] <LaserJock> joejaxx: umm, did you check that it builds in Ubuntu?
[02:05] <LaserJock> joejaxx: and did you check what it depends on?
[02:17] <joejaxx> LaserJock: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/fst
[02:17] <ajmitch> that partially answers 1 question
[02:18] <joejaxx> yes i know
[02:18] <joejaxx> i was about to get to the other part
[02:19] <joejaxx> it fails on compiling
[02:19] <joejaxx> cp -a `find . | grep 'vstsdk[^/] *\$'`/source/common ./vst
[02:19] <joejaxx> cp: cannot stat `/source/common': No such file or directory
[02:19] <ajmitch> then it probably wasn't a good idea to file a sync request just yet
[02:20] <joejaxx> ajmitch: i did not know you needed to do all this before
[02:20] <joejaxx> crimsu n told me to file a bug about the package
[02:20] <ajmitch> it's generally expected that you test stuff that you request
[02:21] <LaserJock> joejaxx: it's assumed that if you actually request a sync that it's syncable ;-)
[02:21] <joejaxx> do people normally have to build packages to request a package for ubuntu?
[02:21] <LaserJock> basically yes
[02:21] <joejaxx> LaserJock: so how do i delete that bug then
[02:21] <LaserJock> any time anything is done it should be built
[02:21] <LaserJock> you can't delete bugs
[02:22] <joejaxx> i mean the status
[02:22] <joejaxx> should i set it to rejected?
[02:22] <LaserJock> well, do you intend on making it work?
[02:22] <joejaxx> yeah
[02:22] <LaserJock> you could simply change it to a merge bug
[02:23] <joejaxx> ok
[02:23] <LaserJock> and explain that you are currently working on merging it
[02:23] <LaserJock> is this going into Multiverse?
[02:23] <joejaxx> yes
[02:23] <ajmitch> does it need to go into multiverse?
[02:23] <joejaxx> yes
[02:24] <ajmitch> why?
[02:24] <LaserJock> it's from contrib
[02:24] <joejaxx> vst
[02:24] <joejaxx> oh
[02:24] <LaserJock> so I was guessing
[02:24] <joejaxx> maybe not then
[02:24] <joejaxx> but i whould thing so
[02:24] <joejaxx> think*
[02:24] <LaserJock> if it depends on a package in Multiverse then it needs to go into Multiverse
[02:25] <ajmitch> is vst in multiverse?
[02:25] <ajmitch> given that the open debian bug is that it can't be built without the vstsdk package
[02:26] <joejaxx> bah
[02:26] <joejaxx> launchpad and its own bugs
[02:26] <joejaxx> :\
[02:29] <joejaxx> ajmitch: vst is not in multiverse
[02:30] <joejaxx> when i went to edit
[02:30] <joejaxx> it took me to the submit a bug page
[02:30] <joejaxx> which is why there is now a second one :\
[02:37] <theCore> LaserJock, how do you launch Xchat?
[02:38] <LaserJock> from the Applications menu
[02:53] <LaserJock> hmm, Main's still got a lot of merging to do
[02:55] <PriceChild> Hobbsee!!! :D
[02:57] <LaserJock> where??
[02:57] <PriceChild> :)
[02:57] <PriceChild> Hey LaserJock
[02:58] <PriceChild> whoa its long as well! :)
[02:58] <PriceChild> its been refined :)
[02:58] <Hobbsee> you cant hide from the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !
[02:58] <PriceChild> Hobbsee's  Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ! see's eeeeeeverything
[02:59] <Hobbsee> exactly
[02:59] <PriceChild> :)
[02:59] <zul_> you can wittle it down though
[02:59] <PriceChild> hehe
[02:59] <PriceChild> Right I need sleep....
[02:59] <PriceChild> i wish i could have more than 6 hours too... :(
[02:59] <PriceChild> Night Hobbsee LaserJock
[03:00] <PriceChild> night zul_ :)
[03:00] <Hobbsee> night PriceChild
[03:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: we haven't seen it, it could be huge!
[03:12] <ajmitch> I doubt that
[03:13] <LaserJock> maybe you're right
[03:13] <LaserJock> maybe she is just a little girl with a little stick
[03:13] <ajmitch> she's mostly harmless
[03:13] <LaserJock> no pushing me around ;-)
[03:23] <Burgundavia> ok, the debian maintainer for libdvdread3 needs some education
[03:23] <Burgundavia> "lets remove installcss.sh cause we have debian-unofficial"
[03:23] <Burgundavia> fracking joyu
[03:25] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: yeah, well
[03:25] <Burgundavia> luckily, this is only feisty, afaik
[03:26] <Burgundavia> so we have time to revert it
[03:39] <joejaxx> ajmitch: know anything about diversions?
[03:51] <lifeless> joejaxx: what do you need to know ?
[03:53] <joejaxx> well
[03:54] <joejaxx> in order for me to submit my packages to universe i have to create a settings package
[03:54] <joejaxx> that holds configuration files
[03:54] <joejaxx> for example
[03:54] <joejaxx> i have a fluxbox key config file
[03:55] <joejaxx> i need to override the default one that ships with fluxbox
[03:55] <minghua> anyone who have an edgy system can check for me if /usr/share/X11/fonts/ dir exists?
[03:56] <joejaxx> the only way for me to do that without rebuilding fluxbox and not submitting my packages to universe is to do diversion i was told
[03:56] <lifeless> minghua: I think thats from dapper. I filed a bug about something related to that
[03:56] <joejaxx> minghua: yeah that does not exist
[03:57] <ajmitch> joejaxx: or you could patch the universe fluxbox package
[03:57] <lifeless> joejaxx: so when your package is installed, it will alter the behaviour of fluxbox for all users... if thats intended, thats fine.
[03:57] <joejaxx> ajmitch: that whould be a bad idea
[03:57] <lifeless> joejaxx: what is your package - why is it better to do this as a separate thing to fluxbox ?
[03:57] <minghua> lifeless: do you remember the bug number?  i want to subscribe to that.  A bunch of universe font packages installs stuff there
[03:57] <minghua> joejaxx: thanks
[03:57] <joejaxx> i whould have to patch wdm also to have the fluxbuntu logo by default
[03:57] <joejaxx> i doubt people just randomly installing it whould like that :\
[03:58] <lifeless> minghua: meh, I dunno :). Look at my filed bugs list ni launchpad
[03:58] <ajmitch> joejaxx: I didn't say that you patch your changes into it
[03:58] <ajmitch> I mean patching configuration options into it
[03:58] <minghua> lifeless: will do, thanks
[03:58] <joejaxx> lifeless: fluxbuntu-*
[03:58] <lifeless> joejaxx: ok.
[03:58] <lifeless> joejaxx: so you need to call dpkg-divert during your preinst script, debian policy documents this IIRC.
[03:58] <lifeless> let me see
[03:59] <joejaxx> yeah
[03:59] <joejaxx> like this
[03:59] <joejaxx> dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /usr/bin/gcc.real /usr/bin/gcc
[03:59] <joejaxx> ^ example
[03:59] <lifeless> minghua: theres only one 'lifeless'
[04:00] <lifeless> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-diversions.html
[04:00] <lifeless> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-binary.html
[04:01] <lifeless> you should discuss with the fluxbox maintainer as part of doing this. They may have an alternative solution
[04:02] <joejaxx> well the thing is
[04:02] <lifeless> joejaxx: and you should use dh_divert
[04:02] <joejaxx> it is not just the fluxbox package
[04:03] <minghua> lifeless: I know only one is you :-)  Just two other people who also use "lifeless" in their email address
[04:04] <lifeless> minghua: oh, well its not in my email address's at all IIRC :)
[04:06] <LaserJock> joejaxx: then you get to do more talking/diverting :-)
[04:06] <joejaxx> it seems like a nasty hack
[04:06] <minghua> dpkg-divert IS a hack
[04:07] <joejaxx> Lol
[04:07] <minghua> sometimes not so nasty, perhaps, but always necessary evil IMHO
[04:07] <minghua> like epochs
[04:17] <lifepositive> do you know how I can add to xchat a script that will display text if for example I type !info
[04:18] <Hobbsee> lifepositive: try #ubuntu for support
[04:18] <lifepositive> i cant
[04:18] <lifepositive> it seems im unable to talk there
[04:18] <lifepositive> !help
[04:18] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[04:34] <joejaxx> hmm no man page for dh_divert
[04:35] <lifepositive> does anyone have  script for xchat that types a long sentence of text with just a command eg. /type text or !info ?
[04:36] <Hobbsee> lifepositive: try google
[04:36] <Hobbsee> lifepositive: and usually aliases will do that
[04:37] <lifepositive> aliases?
[04:37] <Hobbsee> in xchat
[04:39] <lifepositive> hmm
[04:40] <ajmitch> joejaxx: dpkg-divert
[05:04] <LaserJock> anybody got sid using ftp.debian.org for apt mirror?
[05:05] <ajmitch> no, I use http.us.d.o
[05:06] <LaserJock> us?
[05:06] <jsgotangco> LaserJock!
[05:06] <LaserJock> jsgotangco!
[05:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's what I said
[05:06] <ajmitch> us == country code
[05:07] <ajmitch> nz mirror tends towards breakage & being outdated
[05:07] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
[05:07] <jsgotangco> hello!
[05:11] <LaserJock> wow, 2 merges done
[05:11] <LaserJock> I'm going full speed ahead now ;-)
[05:15] <ajmitch> hello mnepton
[05:17] <mnepton> oy
[05:17] <ajmitch> now that was cruel
[05:17] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you can't just go around defenestrating people
[05:17] <mnepton> yes, deliciously so.
[05:17] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: why cant i?
[05:17] <jsgotangco> defenestrate lol
[05:17] <lifeless> clearly she just did
[05:17] <lifeless> therefor you can
[05:17] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: 'cause it's not nice
[05:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: sure it is!
[05:18] <lifepositive> !gnome-xchat
[05:18] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about gnome-xchat - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[05:18] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I suppose you want to be able to point your DOOM stick wherever you want to
[05:19] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course.  but it's more fun defenestrating them first
[05:19] <LaserJock> kids these days, shesh
[05:20] <Hobbsee> *it
[05:20] <LaserJock> well, I'm in bed so I think I'm ok
[05:21] <LaserJock> this ain't one of those laser pointers either ;-)
[05:21] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:22] <Hobbsee> now put that away, you know that's bad to shine in people's eyes
[05:22] <LaserJock> yeah, :(
[05:22] <LaserJock> can't be blowin' out retinas
[05:23] <LaserJock> one of the lamps on my laser went out the other day
[05:23] <LaserJock> kinda sucked
[05:23] <LaserJock> but we got to take it apart a bit
[05:23] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:24] <LaserJock> each lamp gets 20kV so you gotta make sure it's all dicharged our you're toast :-)
[05:24] <ajmitch> sounds like fun
[05:25] <LaserJock> yeah, and somebody decided that right next to a 25kV capacitor is the best place to put the cooling water
[05:26] <mneptoid> ph33r. my Freenode connection hiccuped.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> why you be staring at me, mneptoid
[05:26] <Hobbsee> ?
[05:26] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:26] <ajmitch> another kurt? can we handle this madness?
[05:27] <Hobbsee> no
[05:27] <LaserJock> the DOOM stick even reaches to montreal :-)
[05:27] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: the DOOM stick reaches everywhere.
[05:27] <Hobbsee> proof of my doomstick!
[05:28] <joejaxx> lol
[05:28] <LaserJock> more like broomstick
[05:28] <mnepton> uhhh ... "doomstick" "video" and "irc" are not something in which i shall engage, tyvm
[05:28] <Hobbsee> nah... wasnt a broom
[05:29] <ajmitch> of course
[05:30] <StevenK> LaserJock: "Hobbsee has a long stick" ?
[05:30] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:30] <LaserJock> "Hobbsee DOOMs Kubuntu"
[05:30] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:30] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:30] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: not just kubuntu - i uploaded gnucash last night
[05:31] <LaserJock> oh man
[05:31] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:31] <mnepton> gtk2 gnucash?
[05:31] <LaserJock> now I'm never going to use it for my finances
[05:31] <ajmitch> mnepton: edgy has gtk2 gnucash
[05:31] <Hobbsee> probably
[05:31] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:31] <LaserJock> who knows what easter egg she put in there
[05:31] <mnepton> ajmitch: i know. ;)
[05:31] <ajmitch> after how many years in development...
[05:32] <LaserJock> if Hobbsee suddenly starts sporting some new laptops we'll know
[05:32] <ajmitch> mnepton: you have to deal with support for little apps like that in universe?
[05:32] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: postinst of apt-get install -y kubuntu-desktop
[05:32] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:32] <LaserJock> she cooked the books
[05:32] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: well, i do have 2 at the moment
[05:32] <LaserJock> SEE, PROOF!!
[05:33] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:33] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: but why would i stop at gnucash?
[05:33] <LaserJock> yikes!
[05:34] <ajmitch> problem is, none of us want to dirty ourselves with kde apps
[05:35] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, I'd mark it as a security bug
[05:35] <joejaxx> hey is there a way to get apt to download debs without checking to see if the packages are already installed on the system?
[05:35] <ajmitch> as it would be
[05:35] <joejaxx> i know you can do
[05:35] <joejaxx> sudo apt-get -d install blah
[05:35] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: yes, but if you took away my upload powers, you'd have to do more work
[05:35] <joejaxx> but it will check to see if blah is installed if it is then it does not download the debian files
[05:35] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: fine then, I give you all my money
[05:35] <Hobbsee> oh good
[05:35] <ajmitch> joejaxx: --reinstall
[05:36] <LaserJock> just fix Ubuntu
[05:36] <joejaxx> ajmitch: ah ok thanks
[05:36] <joejaxx> ajmitch: i am working on a install cd buildd script
[05:36] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: where fix is "sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop" - sure!
[05:36] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: hmm, not sure if that would fix everything
[05:37] <LaserJock> we already have enough breakage without that "other" DE ;-)
[05:37] <Hobbsee> it'd be worth a try though
[05:37] <joejaxx> ajmitch: and you have to get the debs you want and place them on the cd
[05:37] <Hobbsee> hah
[05:37] <joejaxx> ajmitch: well you probably already know that so i have no idea why i am telling you lol
[05:38] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: I tell you, if I could get KDE looking as nice as Gnome I'd probably use it more
[05:39] <LaserJock> lately I've just been using a fair amount of KDE apps in Gnome
[05:39] <joejaxx> well bbl
[05:40] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: then perhaps you need to define nice - i think the same about gnome apps, and if it wouldnt crash constantly on me
[05:40] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: perhaps, it's weird how people are drawn to one or the other
[05:41] <LaserJock> KDE still just looks kinda ... "childish" even though that's not really the word for it
[05:41] <LaserJock> I've used it off and on for the last 4 years and it's always seemed that way to me
[05:42] <LaserJock> so I just continue to bounce back and forth
[05:42] <LaserJock> a few days in Gnome and few days in KDE
[05:42] <LaserJock> not really happy with any, but kinda getting things done :-)
[05:43] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: you do have the kubuntu-default-settings installed?  the theme is looking pretty reasonable from that
[05:43] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:43] <Hobbsee> xfce's nice, too
[05:43] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: it's not so much the theme
[05:43] <LaserJock> the theme is looking real nice
[05:43] <Hobbsee> true
[05:43] <LaserJock> but like the widgets and menus
[05:44] <Hobbsee> the look and feel can be very odd though
[05:44] <LaserJock> I can't even really explain it
[05:44] <LaserJock> from what I've seen, KDE looks really nice if you get rid of all the panels and stuff
[05:46] <LaserJock> most of the cool screenshots I've seen are just like superkaramba and a OSX dockbar thingy
[05:47] <jsgotangco> superkaramba is pretty cool though
[05:48] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:49] <lifepositive> Hobbsee: hello
[05:50] <lifepositive> LaserJock: If I showed a movie to 100 people, perhaps 65 will say they loved it, and 25 may be confused and perplexed, and 10 maybe asleep and not care either way and 5 may hate it. Its all about personal preference
[05:50] <lifepositive> LaserJock: and my advice to you is.. if you not too keen on the "2 different movies", grab another movie!  and if you dont like them either, create your own :)
[05:50] <lifepositive> LaserJock: if you always complain about the only thing you have to work with, then you will never be happy
[05:50] <lifepositive> whats superkarmamba?
[05:50] <lifepositive> LaserJock: did that make sense?
[05:50] <LaserJock> lifepositive: yeah, except I've been in this game too long
[05:51] <LaserJock> I've tried darn near every WM and DE out there (joys of Gentoo)
[05:51] <LaserJock> and most are pretty good
[05:51] <lifepositive> LaserJock: if thats true, then you really should apply all you have learned to create something fresh thats suitable for you!  eg. Warren did it with mepis and the guy from Ubuntu etc
[05:51] <LaserJock> lifepositive: sure, except I'd be wasting my time writing my own WM
[05:52] <lifepositive> LaserJock: if you dont like all you got to work with, you need to create something new
[05:52] <lifepositive> LaserJock: i dont hear the guy who created ubuntu say that :)
[05:52] <LaserJock> or make what exists better
[05:52] <LaserJock> sure, but he's got a lota money to go do it
[05:52] <lifepositive> LaserJock: improve on what you got is a secrtet of the super wealthy
[05:52] <lifepositive> eg google etc..
[05:53] <LaserJock> sure
[05:53] <lifepositive> LaserJock: many millionares started with $5 and a great idea
[05:53] <lifepositive> and plenty of detirmination :)
[05:53] <LaserJock> and I'd rather not spend my $5 and determination on WMs :-)
[05:53] <lifepositive> LaserJock: 85% of all millionares started with nothing
[05:54] <lifepositive> LaserJock: well then stop complaining and be graterful  for what you have ;)
[05:54] <LaserJock> sure
[05:54] <lifepositive> LaserJock: I am writing this from my boat :)
[05:54] <lifepositive> notebook :)
[05:55] <lifepositive> and plenty of sushine and great views :)
[05:55] <lifepositive> LaserJock: because I never complained, I worked with what I had and created new things
[05:55] <LaserJock> what I'm more worried about then just "what DE do I use?" is "what DE would I develop for or even contribute to"
[05:55] <lifepositive> :)
[05:56] <lifepositive> LaserJock: God has given you a great mind and a creative ability
[05:56] <lifepositive> work the muscles :)
[05:56] <crimsun> wrong approach. Write a backend, making the frontend UI-independent.
[05:56] <lifepositive> LaserJock: as Phil Nike once said "Just do it!" :)
[05:56] <lifepositive> brb
[05:56] <LaserJock> crimsun: I know but I feel like I miss out on integration doing that
[05:56] <crimsun> why? Just write the various frontend(s), then.
[05:57] <LaserJock> hehe
[05:57] <LaserJock> well, perhaps I'm not meant to be a software developer
[05:58] <ajmitch> yay, friday
[06:10] <lifeless> Laser_away: DE's are overrated. vim is all thou shalt need
[06:12] <jsgotangco> amen
[06:22] <LaserJock> lifeless: I thought it was emacs? ;/
[06:25] <ajmitch> well, I get as far as failing to create a domU :)
[06:30] <realist> LaserJock: no, all you need is ed ;p
[07:41] <ademan> i want to create a new updated package for the eclipse cdt (because the old one is incompatible with the current eclipse package) but i've never made a package before, is there any way i can look at what was done for the original cdt package? or is there any description of how to do it?
[07:42] <minghua> ! packaging
[07:42] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[07:42] <minghua> ademan: look at that guide, and look at the cdt source package
[07:43] <ademan> so sudo apt-get source eclipse-cdt  ?  and yeah i'm looking at the packaging guides
[07:43] <ademan> its just eclipse isn't a standard ./configure && make  program
[07:45] <LaserJock> ademan: once you get the source you can look at debian/rules to see how it's done
[07:45] <ademan> ah ok, thanks
[07:50] <ademan> where does the source package go to?
[07:51] <minghua> you don't need sudo for "apt-get source" BTW
[07:52] <minghua> it goes to the current directory
[07:55] <ademan> minghua: what would i do instead? (sorry, i'm rather ignorant of these things)
[07:55] <minghua> just do "apt-get source <package_name>", the source package will be downloaded to your currect dir
[07:56] <minghua> (assuming you have a deb-src line in your sources.list, of course)
[07:56] <ademan> OH sorry i misread
[07:56] <ademan> i thought you meant that apt-get source wasn't the right approach
[07:56] <ademan> yeah ok
[09:03] <imbrandon> moins all
[09:14] <Mez> how do i apply pathces easily from simple-patchsys to source
[09:25] <crimsun> ah crap
[09:25] <crimsun> that'll get me for reading the mailing list _after_ I read the bug list.
[09:25] <crimsun> siretart: sorry, I'll recheck 73098
[09:34] <siretart> bug 73098
[09:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73098 in ircii-pana "declares unnecessary dependency on libmysqlclient15off" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73098
[09:35] <siretart> crimsun: no problem
[09:41] <siretart> crimsun: btw, the merge is wrong in any case. it was uploaded with -4 to dapper, it should have been versioned as '-3ubuntu1'
[09:41] <siretart> crimsun: this means the next upload should merge '-4' from debian, and be called '-4ubuntu2'
[09:46] <crimsun> right
[10:08] <dholbach> good morning
[10:08] <siretart> dholbach!!
[10:08] <dholbach> hey siretart!
[10:08] <siretart> :)
[10:21] <ajmitch> hi siretart, dholbach
[10:24] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[10:29] <imbrandon> moins siretart ajmitch dholbach
[10:30] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: I'm currently going through science bugs, and I note you have a half-done sync request for zope-zms open (bug #62916). What's happening with that?
[10:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62916 in zope-zms "UVF Exception for zope-zms 2.9.2-a29-1" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62916
[10:30] <Fujitsu> Morning, imbrandon.
[10:30] <imbrandon> heya Fujitsu
[10:30] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I'll get back to it
[10:30] <dholbach> hiya imbrandon, Fujitsu
[10:30] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon
[10:31] <Fujitsu> Goodo, ajmitch.
[10:36] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[10:37] <imbrandon> hrm
[10:37] <ajmitch> hm?
[10:38] <imbrandon> fighting with vmware
[10:38] <ajmitch> on 2.6.19?
[10:38] <imbrandon> no
[10:38] <imbrandon> windows :(
[10:39] <imbrandon> actualy , windows host , 2.6.19 guest
[10:39] <ajmitch> ah
[10:39] <imbrandon> so sorta, but i doubt thats what you ment
[10:39] <ajmitch> I was meaning the patching of the modules to work on feisty as host, yeah :)
[10:40] <imbrandon> ajmitch: http://federation.imbrandon.com/gah.jpg
[10:40] <ajmitch> wow
[10:40] <ajmitch> that's so uninformative
[10:40] <imbrandon> lol yea
[10:40] <jsgotangco> oh my
[10:40] <ajmitch> so far all that tells me is that something stopped in initramfs
[10:40] <imbrandon> thats what it boots to atm
[10:40] <ajmitch> like looking for root filesytem
[10:41] <ajmitch> booting without quiet splash?
[10:41] <imbrandon> to be honest i'm trying to load vmware console here on my feisty box atm so i dont have to keep running down the hallway, i forget what the kernel parms are
[10:41] <imbrandon> i think its bare minimum if i rember right
[10:42] <imbrandon> e.g. no quiet and nosplash
[10:42] <ajmitch> you should still get some kernel output then
[10:42] <Lathiat> i foudn that happened to me when it couldnt find the root fs
[10:43] <imbrandon> zomg , i just got a ftbfs email from soyuz for something i havent uploaded since breezy
[10:43] <ajmitch> yes, and it should tell you that just before it drops to initramfs
[10:43] <Lathiat> i dont seem to recall it did
[10:43] <Lathiat> tho, it may have, it was a few weeks back
[10:43] <imbrandon> probably, i wasent watching console, just walked in the room to see that when i couldent ssh in
[10:43] <imbrandon> :)
[10:44] <ajmitch> Lathiat: it did a couple of days ago when I couldn't boot my box
[10:44] <imbrandon> if thats the case, whats the fix ?
[10:44] <ajmitch> get it working
[10:44] <imbrandon> heh
[10:44] <imbrandon> ok
[10:44] <ajmitch> there can be many reasons why it can't find /
[10:45] <imbrandon> probably something to do with the uuid's i would imagine, its a edgy knot3 to feisty upgrade
[10:45] <ajmitch> or you upgraded at a bad time with broken packages
[10:45] <imbrandon> thats possible too
[10:54] <\sh> moins
[10:54] <imbrandon> heya \sh
[10:54] <siretart> \sh!! :)
[10:55] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[10:55] <\sh> siretart: are you ok with a backport of fai 3.1 to dapper?
[10:55] <\sh> or a normal dapper-update...because of the kernel.
[10:55] <siretart> \sh: since testing it is really invasive, I'd rather backport fai and fai-kernels to dapper rather than to -proposed und -updates
[10:56] <siretart> \sh: I really doubt you manage to get the quorum for -updates
[10:56] <siretart> but in general, I'm okay with that as well
[10:56] <\sh> siretart: the main fai packages are no pain...I'm frightend of the fai kernel ;)
[10:56] <siretart> \sh: with reason!
[10:57] <siretart> \sh: I really hope that h0lger manages to deploy initramfs-tools for fai kernels soon. this will reduce a lot of PITA
[10:57] <siretart> then we could use the standard distro kernels
[10:57] <\sh> siretart: I heard about it from Thomas during the linux expo in cologne.
[10:58] <siretart> AFAIK, this is a project for lenny, not an etch thing
[10:59] <\sh> hmmm..libvolume-id0: Conflicts: libcolumid0 but 093-0ubuntu18 is installed...pbuilder create for feisty...
[11:00] <imbrandon> hehe gnight ajmitch
[11:00] <siretart> ajmitch: sleep well!
[11:00] <\sh> siretart: so, what would you propose to backport even edgies fai kernel package to dapper? I saw yesterday, that it needs edgies kernel source package
[11:01] <minghua> hi \sh
[11:01] <\sh> good night ajmitch :)
[11:02] <siretart> \sh: I can't imagine that fai 3.1 needs 2.6.17. better try to use dapper's 2.6.15 kernel
[11:02] <siretart> \sh: this way, you perhaps don't even need to backport fai-kernels at all
[11:03] <\sh> siretart: yeah, but *-2.6.17-* is written in the default make-fai-nfsroot config file...
[11:03] <\sh> cd
[11:03] <siretart> \sh: then change that
[11:04] <minghua> we have FTBFS notification mails now?  sweet.
[11:04] <siretart> \sh: you can upload directly to dapper-backports. I've been told that such uploads get pocketed and need manual approval, though
[11:04] <\sh> siretart: in edgies package and then requesting a backport?
[11:05] <imbrandon> minghua: guess so, i got one this morning
[11:06] <siretart> \sh: prepare an -backports upload based on the package from edgy for dapper, to use the fai-kernels from dapper. test that it actually works. then file a bug with your testing report and subscribe me, I will then ask you to upload to -backports
[11:06] <siretart> \sh: I think this is the easiest way to convince team ubuntu-archive to approve your upload
[11:07] <\sh> siretart: oh...are we able to upload "changed source packages" to -backports? I thought the backports are still without any source changes
[12:19] <fernando> moin all
[12:21] <EDevil> hello
[01:34] <xerxas> Hi all
[01:52] <kiko> hey hey
[01:52] <kiko> how's it going!
[01:59] <dholbach> hey kiko
[02:00] <kiko> dholbach! good to see you around
[02:00] <kiko> dholbach, can we get a new tz-brazil synced in?
[02:01] <dholbach> kiko: it should be automatically synced
[02:01] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/bugs/71991
[02:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71991 in tz-brasil "tz-brasil doesn't remove the /etc/cron.d file when uninstalled" [Unknown,Fix released] 
[02:02] <dholbach> kiko: you want me to fix the bug? i'm not sure I understand "synced in"
[02:02] <dholbach> we have 0.8 in feisty, no?
[02:03] <kiko> dholbach, ah, I'm not on feisty yet
[02:04] <dholbach> so you want a backport of it?
[02:04] <kiko> dholbach, no, I guess it's fine. should I set those bugs to fix released then, since 0.8's in feisty? (when was it uploaded?)
[02:04] <dholbach> it was automatically synced from debian
[02:04] <dholbach> i can ask the backports team to do a backport to edgy
[02:06] <kiko> dholbach, hmmm. only if it's not too much work -- it will only affect me when we actually need to travel again, which is not in the next two months
[02:07] <dholbach> kiko: updated the bug
[02:08] <kiko> dholbach, you rock
[02:08] <dholbach> de rien
[02:08] <kiko> I'll update the two others
[02:21] <slytherin> dholbach: Why is edgy open for backports so early? IIRC in case of dapper it happened in last two months of edgy cycle.
[02:24] <dholbach> slytherin: i think it was because of infrastructure problems
[02:24] <sivang> moring
[02:24] <sivang> morning
[02:24] <fernando> moin sivang
[02:27] <sivang> hi fernando
[02:40] <xerxas> can I make a package without having my gpg key ?
[02:41] <xerxas> I currently cannot acces my private key and don't manage to generate one , I cannot generate enough entropy remotely
[02:42] <geser> you can build a package but you can't upload it anywhere
[02:42] <xerxas> cannot send it to revu ?
[02:42] <xerxas> with my ssh key ?
[02:43] <xerxas> geser,  anyway,  I haven't yet added dependencie, so I'm not to the point of uploading it
[02:43] <xerxas> how can I make a debuild without signing ?
[02:43] <geser> AFAIK you need a signed .changes file for revu
[02:44] <xerxas> ok
[02:44] <xerxas> ok , debuild -uc does it !
[02:45] <geser> it's also in the EXAMPLES section of the man page for debuild
[02:47] <xerxas> geser,  yes, but I'm using putty and I'm having hard times reading the manpage because of formatting and terminal
[02:47] <xerxas> sorry for asking dumb questions
[02:49] <xerxas> doing a sudo pbuilder build myfile.dsc I get this:
[02:49] <xerxas> chmod a+x /tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/build-tree/pigment-0.1.0/configure
[02:49] <xerxas> chmod: cannot access `/tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/build-tree/pigment-0.1.0/configure': No such file or directory
[02:50] <xerxas> I think my configure file should be in /tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/ and not /tmp/buildd/pigment-0.1.0/build-tree/pigment-0.1.0/
[02:50] <xerxas> howcome I get this ?
[02:59] <geser> hello lophyte
[02:59] <geser> I'm currently filing sync requests for cenon.app and gnustep-examples if it is ok with you
[03:00] <lophyte> sure :)
[03:00] <lophyte> I've been really busy lately and haven't had any time to sit down and look into the packages
[03:08] <zul> meh
[03:19] <giskard> imbrandon, ping
[03:19] <xopher> How could I speed up the pbuilder build-process?
[03:19] <xopher> Is there a safe way to skip steps?
[03:20] <imbrandon> giskard: pong
[03:21] <imbrandon> giskard: got a linky for the beryl stuff ?
[03:21] <giskard> imbrandon,  no :(
[03:21] <imbrandon> ( i assume thats what teh ping was for hehe  )
[03:21] <imbrandon> ok
[03:21] <imbrandon> wasup?
[03:21] <giskard> but i want talk about beryl :)
[03:21] <imbrandon> sure
[03:22] <giskard> fabo, pinged me about beryl right now, and i think it's time to upload something
[03:22] <giskard> i'm going to build debs right now
[03:23] <imbrandon> sounds good, i have time today to review them a bit too
[03:23] <fabo> :)
[03:23] <giskard> but my problem is: we will use beryl's svn for maintain debian/
[03:23] <giskard> or we should switch to bzr.lp.net?
[03:23] <imbrandon> no
[03:23] <imbrandon> neither right now
[03:24] <imbrandon> that is the main reason for making our own atm becouse what beryl has in svn is crackfull
[03:24] <giskard> ok, i want to package it as team, as atm my laptop runs Debian (for my dd work)
[03:24] <imbrandon> and for changes we can use whats in the repos once uploaded, after a week or so of stablizing we can import to bzr
[03:24] <giskard> and my ubuntu pc is too old for run beryl
[03:24] <imbrandon> but i wouldent do that right away
[03:25] <imbrandon> right, for the moment here is what i envisioned, let me know if its an issue ........
[03:26] <imbrandon> you had/have some packages ready ( or will soon ) , i'll review them and make any small changes etc , then upload them ( today ? ) then ....
[03:26] <imbrandon> after about a 2 or 3 days of that we can setup bzr in LP
[03:26] <imbrandon> to package as a team
[03:26] <imbrandon> but i dont want to right off as there will likely be major changes
[03:26] <giskard> ok!
[03:26] <imbrandon> i want to stablize the package for a day or two before we import to LP
[03:26] <imbrandon> sound cool ?
[03:27] <giskard> as you wish!
[03:27] <giskard> yeah!
[03:27] <imbrandon> kk
[03:27] <imbrandon> :)
[03:27] <giskard> my second point is: how to work with Debian people?
[03:27] <fabo> sound cool for me too ;)
[03:27] <bhale> work with on what?
[03:27] <giskard> bhale, on beryl..with shawn
[03:27] <bhale> on the packaging?
[03:27] <giskard> bhale, yes.
[03:28] <imbrandon> work with on what ? i have DD sponsors that will get it into the archive and upload for me if thats what you mean
[03:28] <bhale> we do mono packaging in svn
[03:28] <bhale> on alioth
[03:28] <giskard> bhale, cool
[03:28] <giskard> bhale, also for ubuntu?
[03:29] <bhale> no we dont put ubuntu changes there
[03:29] <imbrandon> yea we do kde-extras on ailoth too, but i would rather not go that route for beryl , but that i guess is upto someone else
[03:29] <fabo> atm shawn has his work on XSF svn
[03:29] <bhale> changes good for everyone goes there
[03:29] <giskard> fabo, yes, on a git repo on pkg-x afaik.
[03:30] <imbrandon> giskard: i dont have a problem getting this into debian from our bzr once its on LP, i wouldent worry about that right now
[03:43] <rmjbwork> hello, can someone okay a sync request? https://launchpad.net/bugs/71980
[03:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71980 in dmraid "dmraid: sync new debian version" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[04:03] <bhale> dudes, where is OngoingMerge?
[04:04] <bhale> what i really want is the page that shows pending merges by (ubuntu) maintainer
[04:10] <geser> is there an other page besides http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ?
[04:17] <imbrandon> geser: for universe? no not currectly
[04:17] <imbrandon> currently
[04:55] <giskard> imbrandon, should we create a ml for beryl-bugs or we can use the ubuntu@lists.beryl-project.org?
[04:58] <PriceChild> WHOA... have you guys seen mark's latest planet?
[04:58] <PriceChild> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/81
[04:58] <PriceChild> lol
[04:59] <bhale> haha
[05:00] <bhale> i dont know of any opensuse developers who dont work for novell
[05:00] <PriceChild> still... that's a blog and a half :P
[05:00] <bhale> probably all on the kde side
[05:00] <bhale> yeah, ok
[05:03] <imbrandon> giskard: we can use the LP bugmail settings for now , it will create a psudo ML when i import the bzr branch and create an LP team
[05:03] <imbrandon> then we can make one at rt@ later
[05:04] <bhale> geser: thanks i was looking in ~scott
[05:05] <bhale> geser: i am an oldtimer
[05:07] <giskard> imbrandon,  ok
[05:08] <imbrandon> giskard: :) ( all good ideas but thats one great thing about using LP for the "base" it takes care of alot of that stuff , so we can focus on getting the packages "right" )
[06:25] <_DvP_> Hi all, sorry for my bad english... I'm french
[06:26] <_DvP_> I have a question for a package
[06:27] <_DvP_> I made a package for recordmydesktop (and for the GUI in pyGTK) but there is an entry in Debian ITP : http://bugs.debian.org/381154
[06:28] <_DvP_> What can I do ?
[06:49] <MrNoFun> Hello... is this the right place to ask a dh_make question?
[06:51] <Sp4rKy> hellp
[06:51] <Sp4rKy> hello*
[06:51] <MrNoFun> Hi
[07:00] <imbrandon> _DvP_: you can email the person that filed the ITP and ask them their status
[07:03] <_DvP_> imbrandon, ok, I do it right now
[07:03] <_DvP_> thks
[07:08] <imbrandon> .
[07:44] <giskard> imbrandon, ping
[08:03] <dholbach> i'm currently changing and dropping heaps of MOTU wiki pages
[08:03] <dholbach> let me know if something breaks for you
[08:03] <dholbach> i'm rigorous with old content
[08:04] <LaserJock> dholbach!!
[08:07] <dholbach>  hey LaserJock
[08:07] <dholbach> motu/merging for example containted heaps of old stuff
[08:07] <dholbach> maybe it's a good idea to search the wiki for 'dapper', 'breezy', etc
[08:08] <LaserJock> yeah, merging is in pretty bad shape on the wiki
[08:08] <LaserJock> dholbach: did I show you a draft MOTU frontpage I did the other day?
[08:09] <dholbach> put it on the wiki
[08:09] <dholbach> or is it there already?
[08:09] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sandbox/MOTU
[08:10] <dholbach> looks good
[08:10] <imbrandon> heya LaserJock dholbach
[08:10] <LaserJock> dholbach: I grabbed the header idea from the LoCo pages Jono has been doing
[08:10] <dholbach> LaserJock: please replace it asap and ask for comments on the motu list - does that sound good?
[08:11] <imbrandon> LaserJock: i'm "borrowing" some of your motu school session for the OpenWeek talks ok?
[08:11] <LaserJock> imbrandon: geeze, and I wasn't even invitied ;-)
[08:11] <LaserJock> imbrandon: sure, if you need anything just let me know
[08:11] <LaserJock> dholbach: righto
[08:11] <imbrandon> LaserJock: actualy i was just about to invite you
[08:11] <imbrandon> was writing a PM :)
[08:12] <imbrandon> LaserJock: got a sec ?
[08:12] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:14] <ajmitch> morning
[08:14] <zul> hey ajmitch
[08:14] <dholbach> LaserJock: i'll rename MOTU/Documentation to MOTU/Wiki/Overview or something
[08:14] <dholbach> LaserJock:  and make MOTU/Documentation a list of documentation links
[08:15] <LaserJock> dholbach: righto
[08:22] <dholbach> :-)
[08:22] <dholbach> mdz doesn't like the name :)
[08:22] <LaserJock> of course he doesn't
[08:22] <LaserJock> he's a CTO
[08:22] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:23] <LaserJock> dholbach: can we get rid of Enthusiasts altogether, I think it's confusing
[08:23] <kiko> only crackheads like those names
[08:23] <dholbach> fine with me, please drop it
[08:23] <kiko> crackheads and.. err.. the president
[08:23] <zul> LaserJock: i saw that as euthenasia
[08:25] <LaserJock> zul: heh, not exactly.
[08:25] <LaserJock> zul: it could forward to REVU ;-)
[08:25] <zul> hehe
[08:26] <dholbach> can we tighten MOTU/Processes/SRU or include the information in StableReleaseUpdates please?
[08:26] <dholbach> somebody from the motu-sru team? ping?
[08:28] <LaserJock> dholbach: when and how will Council Grayskull be formed? or do you have an idea yet :-)
[08:29] <bhale> what is council grayskull
[08:29] <imbrandon> heya zul , ajmitch
[08:29] <ajmitch> hi
[08:29] <imbrandon> and bhale
[08:29] <dholbach> i need to write up the process discussions we had at UDS and wait for a final review of the spec
[08:29] <zul> hello imbrandon
[08:29] <bhale> besides something named after the coolest castle in 80s cartoon history
[08:29] <ajmitch> dholbach: I thought the spec was in pending approval mode?
[08:29] <imbrandon> bhale: it will be a deligated CC type thing for just the MOTU's
[08:29] <ajmitch> bhale: motu leadership team, handles things like approving new motus
[08:29] <dholbach> it needs approval and a final review, yes
[08:30] <LaserJock> dholbach: ooops, I thought it was already approved
[08:30] <imbrandon> it basicly is i think, just formalities
[08:31] <bhale> can I see the spec?
[08:31] <imbrandon> bhale: sure, it should be on LP
[08:31] <Adri2000> what are the dependences for a documentation binary package?
[08:32] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
[08:32] <bhale> oh
[08:32] <bhale> that would make more sense than: No products matching grayskull were found.
[08:32] <bhale> thanks daniel
[08:32] <ajmitch> bhale: blame mako for the name
[08:32] <dholbach> can we drop HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch?
[08:32] <bhale> ajmitch: i like the name
[08:32] <imbrandon> dholbach: i would say so
[08:33] <imbrandon> dholbach: that should just be a pointer to the package guide if anything
[08:33] <bhale> do existing motus vote for members?
[08:33] <dholbach> that's not decided yet
[08:34] <dholbach> we're now at the point "what would a possible council do? and how would it do it?"
[08:34] <bhale> so far we have arbitraily thown out 3 names from a hat to make these kinds of decisions
[08:34] <bhale> which has been ok so far
[08:35] <dholbach> that page has been linked from a couple of places, even from DeveloperResources
[08:36] <dholbach> gngngngn
[08:36] <imbrandon> dholbach: just make it redirect then to the package guide :)
[08:36] <bhale> it says hoary all over it :)
[08:37] <imbrandon> heh
[08:37] <dholbach> LaserJock: your say on  HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch ?
[08:37] <dholbach> the changelog says something about incorporating something in the packaging guide
[08:37] <LaserJock> sorry, my wife was talking with me
[08:38] <dholbach> LaserJock: don't let me stop you from talking to her!
[08:38] <imbrandon> :)
[08:38] <LaserJock> I'd like to think that all packaging docs on the wiki are (or will be) obsoleted by the packaging guide
[08:38] <bhale> this page is very heavy in historical baggage
[08:38] <LaserJock> yes
[08:39] <LaserJock> I believe it was originally written by \sh
[08:39] <LaserJock> I hate breaking things
[08:40] <LaserJock> but it really isn't useful
[08:40] <dholbach> LaserJock: we have too much broken documentation
[08:40] <dholbach> far too much
[08:40] <dholbach> in a big wiki like ours it's good to be rigorous
[08:40] <LaserJock> people should be using the packaging guide and/or debian devel docs if they want to know how to package
[08:41] <LaserJock> wiki's get stale
[08:48] <imbrandon> turkey time ( again ) bbiab
[08:48] <LaserJock> geeze, I can't keep up with dholbach
[08:48] <dholbach> LaserJock: I stole your UbuntuPackagingGuide/Resources page and made it the new MOTU/Documentation :-)
[08:48] <LaserJock> he's a wiki machine
[08:48] <dholbach> naaaah :-)
[08:48] <LaserJock> dholbach: ah, fine
[08:48] <dholbach> i replaced the links also
[08:50] <ajmitch> so wet & windy here
[08:50] <ajmitch> it's meant to be nearly summer
[08:52] <Amaranth> was 64F (18C) yesterday here
[08:53] <LaserJock> Amaranth: did you see the filtering email on the -devel MLM?
[08:53] <Amaranth> eh?
[08:53] <Amaranth> oh, yeah
[08:54] <Amaranth> Work on WillowNG is somewhere between "on hold" and "what's willowng?"
[08:54] <Amaranth> Busy with school and beryl
[08:54] <LaserJock> Amaranth: I wrote a reply bringing up with some info on willowng
[08:54] <Amaranth> i saw
[08:54] <LaserJock> hopefully it's accurate
[08:55] <LaserJock> I hate emailing about other people's projects but the filtering thing is something I see fairly often
[08:56] <Amaranth> looks accurate
[08:57] <dholbach> \sh_away: what about the MOTU IM team? is it still in business?
[08:59] <LaserJock> dholbach: so did you go through the MOTU/Packages/* ?
[08:59] <dholbach> LaserJock: not yet
[09:01] <Adri2000> I'm packaging a program with a GUI, but it has no .desktop file, I can create one but there is no icon (in the tarball, on their homepage...) :/ so should I create the .desktop file even with no icon?
[09:04] <LaserJock> it'd be nice to send then a .desktop and ask them for an icon
[09:04] <LaserJock> s/then/them/
[09:04] <LaserJock> I think most software authors appreciate their apps showing up in the menus
[09:05] <Adri2000> ok, I'll upload the package to revu and send an email to upstream
[09:42] <dholbach> have a nice WE
[09:50] <TokenBad> did something happen to the rar package in dapper
[10:00] <Mez> TokenBad, what do you mean "happen" to the rar package? (I maintain rar)
[10:03] <TokenBad> well I used to use rar...and did a search for apt-cache search rar and all found was unrar-free
[10:03] <TokenBad> but I know rar used to be there
[10:04] <geser> !info rar dapper
[10:04] <ubotu> rar: Archiver for .rar files. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 3.30-2ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 236 kB, installed size 476 kB (Only available for i386)
[10:04] <geser> TokenBad: have you multiverse enabled?
[10:04] <TokenBad> yes
[10:06] <TokenBad> I just checked again to be safe
[10:07] <Mez> TokenBad, u i386 or some other arch?
[10:08] <TokenBad> i386....
[10:08] <TokenBad> Mez, I finally found it...but I had to uncheck multiverse...updated...then recheck and update again...that was weird...wonder why that would happen
[10:09] <Mez> dunno ;)
[10:09] <TokenBad> think it could have crashed in the update before?
[10:09] <Mez> but feisty has new rar and unrar
[10:09] <Mez> hmm i should backport those
[10:13] <TokenBad> well thanks for help....glad to have rar back....
[10:18] <MrNoFun> REVU question: what does the error message "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution" mean?
[10:19] <MrNoFun> I'm a member of ubuntu-universe-contributors, and I've uploaded a package before.
[10:19] <Burgwork> ANNOUNCE: -doc meeting in -meeting right now
[10:20] <Mez> MrNoFun, did you get that in an email ?
[10:20] <lifeless> you may have the wrong target in the changelog
[10:21] <Mez> MrNoFun, that sounds like you uploaded to ubuntu by accident
[10:25] <MrNoFun> I did get that in an e-mail, and I meant to upload to ubuntu. The target was feisty...
[10:26] <PriceChild> shouldn't you be uploading to "revu"?
[10:26] <MrNoFun> Yes, that's it. Sorry to bother you. :)
[10:27] <Mez> MrNoFun, no worried - it's a good msitake to learn, specially for when you get upload rights ;)
[10:28] <MrNoFun> Yup... I like learning things when I don't have the power to mess things up! Thanks for the help, Mez.
[10:28] <Mez> better to learn it now than like me when you did have upload rights ;)
[10:30] <giskard> imbrandon, ping
[10:41] <Adri2000> I know that files shouldn't be generated outside debian during the build... but if they are modified? they exist in the tarball but are not the same after the build, should I also remove them in the clean rule?
[10:41] <Adri2000> s/debian/debian\/ directory/
[10:42] <LaserJock> Adri2000: the clean rule *should* get you back to the beginning tarball
[10:43] <Adri2000> yes, but here it's not easily possible: they are not created, they are modified
[10:43] <Adri2000> but I can patch the makefile to create the new files in another directory... :/
[10:44] <Adri2000> (it's gtk-doc files)
[10:45] <ajmitch> this is why dpatch unpatches during clean
[10:46] <Adri2000> ajmitch: hm? it's not about patches
[10:47] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I don't understand what you're doing?
[10:50] <Adri2000> I'm packaging a program which has gtk-doc, and before uploading to revu I ran revu-report to see if files where created/modified outside the debian/directory, and all the generated doc files (html, .sgml, ...) during the build appear in debuild_test, but I can't delete them in the clean rule because they already exist in the upstream tarball
[10:50] <Adri2000> they are different from those in the upstream tarball, they are modified, not newly created
[10:55] <LaserJock> Adri2000: so the clean rule modifies them?
[10:56] <geser> as far as I understood him there are updated (regenerated) during the build
[10:56] <Adri2000> LaserJock: the build create them
[10:56] <Adri2000> geser: yep
[10:56] <LaserJock> I'm not sure there's really a problem then
[10:56] <LaserJock> if it isn't messing up the source package
[10:57] <Adri2000> revu-report says that files are generated (in fact, regenerated) outside debian
[10:57] <Adri2000> W: Building this package modifies or generates files not in debian/. See debuild_test and consider adding clean rules to debian/rules.
[10:58] <LaserJock> now I'm confused
[10:58] <ademan>  i'm trying to package a recent version of the eclipse-cdt, what do you think the best way for me to attack this is?  Re-use the old package's files (updated of course) and rebuild using the same tools?  Start from scratch? Or what?  (its a java package so i don't beleive ./configure && make are at all relevant here)
[10:58] <ademan> oh, and please excuse my ignorance, i've never done this before, but i'm currently reading the relevant docs.  I just don't feel i'm totally grasping it
[10:58] <LaserJock> ademan: update the existing package
[10:59] <LaserJock> Adri2000: as long as it isn't messing up the source package I don't really see how it's a problem
[10:59] <ademan> LaserJock: so then i'd need to know how the original package was built?
[11:00] <LaserJock> ademan: sure
[11:00] <LaserJock> ademan: is it in the Ubuntu repos?
[11:00] <geser> !info eclipse-cdt
[11:00] <ubotu> eclipse-cdt: C/C++ Development Tools for Eclipse. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.1-3 (edgy), package size 17049 kB, installed size 21896 kB
[11:00] <geser> yes it is
[11:00] <Adri2000> LaserJock: it won't be accepted on revu, reviewers don't like to see created/modified files during the build
[11:01] <ademan> yep, it sucks because i'm a c++ programmer (but i'm fresh from windows so i'm used to having an IDE) and the stupid eclipse-cdt doesn't work with the current eclipse version
[11:01] <LaserJock> Adri2000: that doesn't seem right, of course there are created/modified files during build, that's what "building" is
[11:02] <Adri2000> LaserJock: after the clean rule done *
[11:02] <lifeless> ademan: apt-get source eclipse-cdt
[11:02] <Adri2000> after the clean, it should be exactly the same as the upstream tarball (except the debian/ directory)
[11:03] <ademan> lifeless: yep, done that already
[11:03] <lifeless> ademan: that will get you a number of files. but the key thing is a diff and an upstream tarball
[11:03] <lifeless> grab the upstream tarball for the new eclipse-cdt and apply the diff
[11:03] <ademan> ok, so i need to write a new diff?
[11:03] <ademan> what do you mean apply the diff?
[11:03] <Fujitsu> ademan: You need to change into the directory apt-get just created, and run `uupdate /path/to/new/tarball'
[11:04] <lifeless> gunzip -c ...diff.gz | patch -p1
[11:04] <lifeless> ademan: you probably want to read one of the packaging tutorials about now
[11:04] <Fujitsu> uupdate will attempt to apply the diff to the new tarball.
[11:04] <lifeless> Adri2000: thats not true. after clean, it should be ready to build, and have whatever diff is needed to package it correctly.
[11:05] <lifeless> Adri2000: altering just debian/ is interesting but irrelevant
[11:06] <Adri2000> lifeless: well, why revu-report shows a warning about that then?
[11:06] <Adri2000> and debuild_test would be useless?
[11:07] <lifeless> Adri2000: dunno, its on crack ?
[11:07] <Adri2000> "on crack"?
[11:08] <Adri2000> lifeless: sorry, it's a language problem, I don't understand
[11:09] <Adri2000> revu-report is in the package revu-tools used by the revu reviewers
[11:09] <lifeless> thats colloqiual sorry. I mean, its a warning that someone has put in which I dont agree with
[11:09] <Adri2000> ok
[11:10] <Adri2000> I will upload to revu, and will ask upstream to remove these files, shipping these files is like shipping binaries... :/
[11:13] <Sp4rKy> Adri2000: not really, because they're created during make process if they don't exists, right ?
[11:14] <Sp4rKy> Adri2000: if it is, just remove them from tarball source, write this in changelog, and ask upstream to remove them from tarball
[11:16] <Adri2000> Sp4rKy: (as I just said in the fr channel ;)) I will first email upstream and if I get no response I will modify the tarball
[11:17] <Sp4rKy> like you want :)
[11:18] <ademan> lifeless: yeah i'm reading whats in system->help->system documentation
[11:19] <ademan> but apt-get seemed to suggest that it already applied a patch
[11:20] <lifeless> ademan: it did, to the old version of the code. you need to apply it to the new one, which Fujitsu told you how to do easily :)
[11:21] <ademan> lifeless: really? that easy? wow
[11:24] <ademan> lifeless: it wants a version, what format should it be in? 3.1.1 ?
[11:25] <lifeless> its a debian version number. Look at the previous version's changelog to see what that might look like
[11:25] <lifeless> as you are climbing a curve here, your REVU'er will need to check it, I'dguess 3.1.1-0ubuntu1 is right for now
[11:27] <ademan> old version here: 3.0.1-3
[11:27] <gnomefreak> what do i use as a package place holder in bash? $package?
[11:28] <gnomefreak> new packages are normally 0ubuntu1
[11:28] <ademan> alright, thanks
[11:31] <ademan> so now that i've done uupdate do i build the package with pbuilder?
[11:32] <ademan> and i guess more importantly how do i submit this to be reviewed?
[11:33] <ademan> (well assuming that's the next step)
[11:33] <geser> !revu
[11:33] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[11:33] <Fujitsu> REVU is only for new packages.
[11:34] <Adri2000> hey Fujitsu :)
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Hi Adri2000.
[11:35] <geser> who reviews updated packages from unexpierenced people?
[11:35] <zorglu_> q. i would like to create a small repository for my own softwares, where should i look ?
[11:35] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: falcon ;)
[11:35] <ademan> zorglu_: yeah falcon
[11:35] <zorglu_> gnomefreak: seens that on seveas repository but the link to the software is broken
[11:36] <gnomefreak> zorglu_: oh
[11:36] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: still waiting for the new release of homebank, I will re-email upstream to know what is going on
[11:36] <gnomefreak> sorry havent looked at seveas repo in a long time
[11:36] <gnomefreak> hes not on atm :(
[11:36] <Adri2000> for any motu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3540 :)
[11:37] <zorglu_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeveasPackages at the bottom there is http://kaarsemaker.net/software which is a page in weird language without software :)
[11:37] <zorglu_> any other suggestion ?
[11:37] <gnomefreak> its in dutch most likely
[11:38] <zorglu_> oh i found the proper link http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/
[11:47] <ademan> so yeah, i'm sorry to keep pestering you guys, but what not? i've got a dir eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1-1  and eclipse-cdt-3.1.1-0ubuntu1-1.orig  what should i do now?
[11:49] <ademan> what now*
[11:50] <Sp4rKy> freeflying: ping