[01:18] <Keybuk> *yawns*
[01:19] <Keybuk> thankfully, it is Friday today
[01:19] <AlexExtreme> yup
[01:20] <AlexExtreme> is anyone free to add specs for upstart on launchpad?
[01:20] <Keybuk> yeah
[01:20] <Keybuk> that's why I've moved the specs to the upstart product, and got our own wiki
[01:20] <Keybuk> so brain storming doesn't get in the way of ubuntu releases
[01:20] <AlexExtreme> ok
[01:21] <AlexExtreme> i'll write a spec about profiles later if i get time
[02:13] <AlexExtreme> Keybuk: does this look ok to you? http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Profiles
[02:13] <AlexExtreme> if so i'll add it on launchpad
[02:28] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: you should probably indicate where the profiles are actually defined
[02:28] <Keybuk> and how they're chosen
[02:28] <Keybuk> also you need to register the LP entry for it :)
[02:28] <AlexExtreme> ok
[02:29] <AlexExtreme> i've got a pretty good idea about that
[02:33] <AlexExtreme> eww
[02:34] <AlexExtreme> "Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad"
[02:34] <AlexExtreme> hmm.
[02:34] <AlexExtreme> works now
[02:36] <Keybuk> cool
[02:36] <Keybuk> (note: we're not using the "release goal" feature)
[02:38] <AlexExtreme> oh
[02:38] <Keybuk> it's not really useful LP thing at the moment, milestones work better
[02:39] <AlexExtreme> ok
[02:40] <AlexExtreme> ok, i've added more stuff to the design section
[03:14] <Keybuk> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobsAsStates
[03:18] <AlexExtreme> looks good
[03:19] <AlexExtreme> btw, could you set a priority for the profiles spec? lp won't let me
[03:20] <Keybuk> I'd like someone to write the competing "Flags" spec as well
[03:20] <Keybuk> as there needs to be a decision about which route to follow
[03:21] <AlexExtreme> k
[03:30] <AlexExtreme> damn, the weather in this country sucks. there's nothing like a good old rain shower to make you feel even better when doing boring coursework.
[03:32] <wasabi_> Jobs as states doesn't appear to differ in anyway from how it works currently: implicite start/stop events for a job
[03:32] <wasabi_> also: good morning
[03:33] <AlexExtreme> morning wasabi_
[03:33] <AlexExtreme> wasabi_: jobs as states means that you can have a job without a exec/respawn/script
[03:33] <wasabi_> Keybuk: Are you going to be writing down our thai conversation? If not I might be able to get some time this afternoon to put it down.
[03:34] <wasabi_> AlexExtreme: Oh, missed that one little word "without"
[03:34] <AlexExtreme> :)
[03:34] <wasabi_> still need the basic state machine syntax put down in writing then
[03:35] <Keybuk> yeah, plan to do that in a bit
[03:53] <Keybuk> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobStates
[03:54] <Keybuk> ^ does that read about right?
[03:55] <Keybuk> (the unwritten intent being, obviously, that post-start is run in the "starting" state and pre-stop run in the "stop" state
[03:57] <AlexExtreme> it sounds ok to me
[03:58] <yankees26> that was odd (i couldn't reconnect)
[03:58] <AlexExtreme> just one comment on this: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobsAsStates - shouldn't it say "A job without either an exec, script or respawn" rather than "A job without either an exec or script" ? (yes, i'm being picky :P)
[03:59] <yankees26> was my question answered while i was gone?
[03:59] <AlexExtreme> yankees26: which question?
[03:59] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: respawn is syntatic sugar.  I tend to ignore it
[03:59] <AlexExtreme> ah ok
[03:59] <yankees26> the return N_("stop") over return "stop"
[04:00] <Keybuk> respawn ... just means respawn\nexec ...
[04:00] <yankees26> 'cause N_ would just return "stop"
[04:00] <AlexExtreme> yankees26: you lagged out so we probably didn't get it
[04:00] <yankees26> ah
[04:01] <yankees26> well in job.c in const char* functions, it returns N_("the string");
[04:02] <yankees26> and N_ is just a macro that returns "the string" so why not just do return "the string";
[04:02] <AlexExtreme> weno
[04:02] <AlexExtreme> *no
[04:02] <AlexExtreme> N_ performs localization
[04:02] <yankees26> really?
[04:02] <AlexExtreme> afaik, yes
[04:03] <yankees26> 'cause i just see #define N_(_str) (_str)
[04:03] <Keybuk> N marks it for localisation
[04:03] <Keybuk> e.g.
[04:03] <Keybuk> foo () {
[04:03] <Keybuk>    return N_("the string");
[04:03] <Keybuk> }
[04:03] <Keybuk> char *a = foo():
[04:03] <Keybuk> printf ("%s\n", _(a));
[04:03] <Keybuk> it marks the string as likely to be translated
[04:03] <Keybuk> where the _(a) actually translates it
[04:04] <yankees26> oh, is this a natural compiler thing?
[04:04] <Keybuk> it's a gettext thing
[04:04] <yankees26> or is it 'cause libintl.h and locale.h are included?
[04:04] <yankees26> ah ok
[04:10] <yankees26> upstart can completely replace sysvinit right? (like sysvinit doesnt even need to be installed)
[04:10] <Md> right
[04:10] <Md> that's the point
[04:10] <AlexExtreme> well, you need some utilities from sysvinit if you wish to use the sysvinit compat stuff, but to run a fully upstartized system, you don't need it
[04:11] <yankees26> ah
[04:11] <yankees26> what would be missed from using fully upstartized system? (arent shutdown and reboot apps from the sysvinit compat)
[04:12] <AlexExtreme> no, upstart provides it's own
[04:12] <yankees26> ah
[04:13] <Keybuk> pidof, killall5, sulogin, last, mesg
[04:13] <Keybuk> those are the binaries we still use from sysvinit atm
[04:14] <yankees26> ah
[04:14] <yankees26> well pidof i can mimic easily
[04:14] <yankees26> ps -e | grep app | awk {'print $1'}
[04:14] <yankees26> ( i think thats how)
[04:15] <yankees26> (of course it isnt as safe)
[04:15] <yankees26> cause of grep
[04:15] <Md> it would be nice if util-linux were actually maintained, so we could ask the maintainer to accept them there...
[04:16] <yankees26> is efty fully upstartized"?
[04:16] <AlexExtreme> no
[04:16] <AlexExtreme> feisty will be
[04:17] <yankees26> ah
[04:17] <yankees26> well hopefully i
[04:17] <yankees26> 'll have nirvana done sometime in december and i can actually get to doing LFS with upstart
[04:40] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaemontoolsUpstartConfig
[04:40] <Keybuk> ^ and the award for the most pointless thing in the universe to do goes to ...
[04:40] <thom> *giggle*
[04:40] <AlexExtreme> ahahaha
[04:40] <Keybuk> the last two commands in his "Validate" section kinda prove why you really don't need daemon tools if you have upstart
[04:41] <Keybuk> upstart supervising the supervisor
[04:41] <AlexExtreme> yeah
[04:41] <Keybuk> . o O { upstart-compat-daemontools }
[04:41] <yankees26> me being a dumb idiot has no idea what daemontools does and chooses to ignore it :P
[04:41] <thom> well, you'll need some compat bits for daemontools, yeah
[04:42] <thom> the way stdout and stderr and proctitling and stuff are handled
[04:42] <thom> and logging
[04:42] <Keybuk> how does it handled stdout/stderr ?
[04:43] <thom> can't remember, i just remember it being funky
[04:43] <thom> it's been ~4 years since i last went near daemontools
[05:31] <Keybuk> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/ComplexEventConfig
[05:31] <Keybuk> ^ wasabi_, et al
[05:32] <yankees26> JobAsState link doesnt work
[05:32] <yankees26> says the page doesnt exist
[05:34] <Keybuk> ah, should be JobsAsStates
[05:35] <yankees26> ya
[05:48] !alindeman:*! Hi all!  Wikipedia, the free content encyclopedia project we've all come to depend on, is approaching 1.5 million English articles.  If you wish to track the countdown, join #wikimedia-milestones  Of course, please don't go creating useless articles to "help" :-)