=== theCore_ [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === wasabi [n=wasabi@ubuntu/member/wasabi] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D91CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D910F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@e180080017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart === mbiebl [n=michael@e180080017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart === Md [i=md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #upstart === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #upstart [01:18] *yawns* === AlexExtreme yawns too [01:19] thankfully, it is Friday today [01:19] yup [01:20] is anyone free to add specs for upstart on launchpad? [01:20] yeah [01:20] that's why I've moved the specs to the upstart product, and got our own wiki [01:20] so brain storming doesn't get in the way of ubuntu releases [01:20] ok [01:21] i'll write a spec about profiles later if i get time [02:13] Keybuk: does this look ok to you? http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/Profiles [02:13] if so i'll add it on launchpad [02:28] AlexExtreme: you should probably indicate where the profiles are actually defined [02:28] and how they're chosen [02:28] also you need to register the LP entry for it :) [02:28] ok [02:29] i've got a pretty good idea about that [02:33] eww [02:34] "Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad" [02:34] hmm. [02:34] works now === yankees26 [n=yankees2@ool-182c6007.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #upstart [02:36] cool [02:36] (note: we're not using the "release goal" feature) [02:38] oh [02:38] it's not really useful LP thing at the moment, milestones work better [02:39] ok [02:40] ok, i've added more stuff to the design section === yankees26 [n=yankees2@ool-182c6007.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #upstart [03:14] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobsAsStates [03:18] looks good [03:19] btw, could you set a priority for the profiles spec? lp won't let me [03:20] I'd like someone to write the competing "Flags" spec as well [03:20] as there needs to be a decision about which route to follow [03:21] k [03:30] damn, the weather in this country sucks. there's nothing like a good old rain shower to make you feel even better when doing boring coursework. [03:32] Jobs as states doesn't appear to differ in anyway from how it works currently: implicite start/stop events for a job [03:32] also: good morning [03:33] morning wasabi_ [03:33] wasabi_: jobs as states means that you can have a job without a exec/respawn/script [03:33] Keybuk: Are you going to be writing down our thai conversation? If not I might be able to get some time this afternoon to put it down. [03:34] AlexExtreme: Oh, missed that one little word "without" [03:34] :) [03:34] still need the basic state machine syntax put down in writing then [03:35] yeah, plan to do that in a bit [03:53] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobStates [03:54] ^ does that read about right? [03:55] (the unwritten intent being, obviously, that post-start is run in the "starting" state and pre-stop run in the "stop" state [03:57] it sounds ok to me === yankees26 [n=yankees2@ool-182c6007.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #upstart [03:58] that was odd (i couldn't reconnect) [03:58] just one comment on this: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/JobsAsStates - shouldn't it say "A job without either an exec, script or respawn" rather than "A job without either an exec or script" ? (yes, i'm being picky :P) [03:59] was my question answered while i was gone? [03:59] yankees26: which question? [03:59] AlexExtreme: respawn is syntatic sugar. I tend to ignore it [03:59] ah ok [03:59] the return N_("stop") over return "stop" [04:00] respawn ... just means respawn\nexec ... [04:00] 'cause N_ would just return "stop" [04:00] yankees26: you lagged out so we probably didn't get it [04:00] ah [04:01] well in job.c in const char* functions, it returns N_("the string"); [04:02] and N_ is just a macro that returns "the string" so why not just do return "the string"; [04:02] weno [04:02] *no [04:02] N_ performs localization [04:02] really? [04:02] afaik, yes [04:03] 'cause i just see #define N_(_str) (_str) [04:03] N marks it for localisation [04:03] e.g. [04:03] foo () { [04:03] return N_("the string"); [04:03] } [04:03] char *a = foo(): [04:03] printf ("%s\n", _(a)); [04:03] it marks the string as likely to be translated [04:03] where the _(a) actually translates it [04:04] oh, is this a natural compiler thing? [04:04] it's a gettext thing [04:04] or is it 'cause libintl.h and locale.h are included? [04:04] ah ok [04:10] upstart can completely replace sysvinit right? (like sysvinit doesnt even need to be installed) [04:10] right [04:10] that's the point [04:10] well, you need some utilities from sysvinit if you wish to use the sysvinit compat stuff, but to run a fully upstartized system, you don't need it [04:11] ah [04:11] what would be missed from using fully upstartized system? (arent shutdown and reboot apps from the sysvinit compat) [04:12] no, upstart provides it's own [04:12] ah [04:13] pidof, killall5, sulogin, last, mesg [04:13] those are the binaries we still use from sysvinit atm [04:14] ah [04:14] well pidof i can mimic easily [04:14] ps -e | grep app | awk {'print $1'} [04:14] ( i think thats how) [04:15] (of course it isnt as safe) [04:15] cause of grep [04:15] it would be nice if util-linux were actually maintained, so we could ask the maintainer to accept them there... [04:16] is efty fully upstartized"? [04:16] no [04:16] feisty will be [04:17] ah [04:17] well hopefully i [04:17] 'll have nirvana done sometime in december and i can actually get to doing LFS with upstart [04:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DaemontoolsUpstartConfig [04:40] ^ and the award for the most pointless thing in the universe to do goes to ... [04:40] *giggle* [04:40] ahahaha [04:40] the last two commands in his "Validate" section kinda prove why you really don't need daemon tools if you have upstart [04:41] upstart supervising the supervisor [04:41] yeah [04:41] . o O { upstart-compat-daemontools } [04:41] me being a dumb idiot has no idea what daemontools does and chooses to ignore it :P [04:41] well, you'll need some compat bits for daemontools, yeah [04:42] the way stdout and stderr and proctitling and stuff are handled [04:42] and logging [04:42] how does it handled stdout/stderr ? [04:43] can't remember, i just remember it being funky [04:43] it's been ~4 years since i last went near daemontools [05:31] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/ComplexEventConfig [05:31] ^ wasabi_, et al [05:32] JobAsState link doesnt work [05:32] says the page doesnt exist [05:34] ah, should be JobsAsStates [05:35] ya [05:48] !alindeman:*! Hi all! Wikipedia, the free content encyclopedia project we've all come to depend on, is approaching 1.5 million English articles. If you wish to track the countdown, join #wikimedia-milestones Of course, please don't go creating useless articles to "help" :-) === mbiebl [n=michael@e180086162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #upstart === theCore [n=alex@modemcable128.255-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #upstart === ekix [i=eki@a88-112-30-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #upstart === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D910F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D973B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #upstart === j_ack_ is now known as j_ack