[12:37] <tsmithe> wow - nothing for an hour...
[12:37] <tsmithe> or three
[12:50] <poningru> rofl the opensuse email is hilarious
[01:00] <tsmithe> where can i find it?
[01:00] <Burgwork> see planet ubuntu
[01:00] <Burgwork> I just blogged about it
[01:00] <tsmithe> cool - havent checked lifrea for ages
[01:56] <theCore> How much time do you think will it take that post makes the front page of Digg and cie?
[01:56] <theCore> bets are open
[02:09] <lotusleaf> theCore: if it's the one I mentioned in #ubuntuforums and #ubuntu-offtopic re: ubuntu open week, hopefully very soon
[02:10] <lotusleaf> theCore: someone submitted it before I could, otherwise I would've submitted a link directly to the wiki page ;)
[02:15] <theCore> lotusleaf, that is certainly bad marketing
[02:16] <lotusleaf> theCore: what is
[02:16] <theCore> personally, I find it was a really bad move from sbdfl
[02:16] <theCore> er, sabdfl
[02:16] <theCore> lotusleaf, posting it on Digg
[02:17] <elkbuntu> theCore, why?
[02:17] <lotusleaf> theCore: I don't know who posted it to digg, but I don't see how that could be bad, it's a news site
[02:17] <lotusleaf> theCore: and marketing is directly related to news :)
[02:17] <lotusleaf> theCore: unless mimes are deployed
[02:18] <theCore> It will probably give to Ubuntu a pretty bad image
[02:19] <elkbuntu> theCore, and you had the desire to enhance the problem by digging WHY?
[02:19] <theCore> elkbuntu, no, I would never post that on Digg
[02:19] <lotusleaf> theCore: I don't see how informing people about something is giving it a bad image, could you please enlighten my understanding of your position, please?
[02:20] <elkbuntu> lotusleaf, do you have much grasp of inter-distro politics?
[02:20] <lotusleaf> elkbuntu: yes, and I try to avoid politics ;)
[02:20] <tonyyarusso> I think it just has a bad tone to direct it specifically at suse people like that.  I would have been more comfortable with the announcement with the implied understanding that they may be the sort of people he was talking to, without just saying it, much less putting it in the title
[02:21] <lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: I don't, how did Corel Linux benefit from the Microsoft/Corel partnership six years ago?
[02:21] <elkbuntu> lotusleaf, well, sabdfl basically announced that we are holding an open week to poach OpenSuSE developers
[02:22] <theCore> elkbuntu, that isn't how SuSE's developers took it
[02:22] <tonyyarusso> theCore: You've heard from some of them?  Please do share.
[02:22] <elkbuntu> theCore, how did they take it then?
[02:22] <theCore> elkbuntu, it was plain trolling for them
[02:22] <lotusleaf> theCore: are you a suse developer?
[02:22] <theCore> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03789.html
[02:22] <theCore> lotusleaf, no
[02:23] <theCore> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03788.html
[02:23] <theCore> ^^ Novell's position
[02:24] <lotusleaf> theCore: were the Novell/Microsoft talks prior to the public announcement secret or open?
[02:24] <lotusleaf> theCore: if secret, what does this say to an "open" community?
[02:24] <lotusleaf> what does this say to "open"suse?
[02:25] <lotusleaf> perhaps the developers should think of that, first
[02:25] <elkbuntu> theCore, it goes deeper than that. that was ONE person's response
[02:25] <theCore> lotusleaf, I don't really care about the Novell/Microsoft agreement. Although, I care very much about the community spirit that should be shared across distros
[02:25] <theCore> elkbuntu, they're all the same
[02:26] <theCore> elkbuntu, some even taught it was a spammer
[02:26] <lotusleaf> theCore: so if the Novell/Microsoft agreement was reached through secret talks, and you care about the community spirit, what do secret talks (IF they were secret) mean for an open community's spirit?
[02:26] <theCore> check the thread: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/threads16.html
[02:27] <lotusleaf> theCore: check the talks
[02:27] <lotusleaf> theCore: were they secret? do you know?
[02:27] <lotusleaf> theCore: before anyone starts on what Mr. Shuttleworth recently said, I'd focus on whether or not secret talks were held
[02:28] <elkbuntu> theCore, trust me on the fact that it's being seen as more than trolling.
[02:28] <theCore> elkbuntu, I hope so
[02:29] <elkbuntu> theCore, i think you misunderstand me. they're seeing past the trolling aspect to the poaching aspect
[02:29] <theCore> oh
[02:30] <lotusleaf> it made front page
[02:30] <lotusleaf> on digg ;)
[02:30] <theCore> crap...
[02:31] <theCore> #2 position ...
[02:32] <elkbuntu> theCore, now you're seeing it
[02:33] <tonyyarusso> I don't think I've been around to understand what's going on...
[02:33] <tonyyarusso> Can someone summarize background/issues for me?
[02:33] <lotusleaf> tonyyarusso: read about the "talks" between Novell/Microsoft before the news went public
[02:33] <lotusleaf> were these secret talks or public?
[02:33] <theCore> tonyyarusso, http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113
[02:33] <theCore> lotusleaf, no idea
[02:34] <theCore> lotusleaf, I bet they were secret
[02:34] <lotusleaf> doesn't sound like something I'd want in an open community
[02:34] <theCore> I rarely seen public corporate deals
[02:35] <theCore> Canonical as a good load of private talk behind the scenes too
[02:36] <lotusleaf> theCore: have you read about the Corel/Microsoft partnership six years or so ago?
[02:36] <elkbuntu> theCore, that's a given. there's a limit to *how* open you can be
[02:36] <theCore> I'm glad to see that Digg folks react pretty well
[02:36] <lotusleaf> theCore: it should be interesting to compare the novell/microsoft recent history a few years from now to the corel/microsoft partnership, be sure to bookmark appropriate links for a cross comparison ;)
[02:36] <theCore> They like Ubuntu, and hates Microsoft
[02:36] <theCore> lotusleaf, maybe
[02:38] <theCore> elkbuntu, I know and I understand that it's normal for any organizations of have some privacy
[02:38] <elkbuntu> theCore, there's a good proportion of people reading that then dissolving into fits of manical laughter
[02:38] <lotusleaf> "Will Corel be the first to bring Linux to the .Net platform? Rene Schmidt: Well, if I have anything to do with it, I think I would like to, for sure. " http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/16/corel.linux.on.ms.idg/index.html
[02:38] <lotusleaf> "In terms of Wine itself, we still support it; we have been working with the community to come up with a 1.0 version of Wine"
[02:39] <lotusleaf> we saw where Corel Linux and Wine support went didn't we
[02:39] <lotusleaf> a lot of people were excited then, thought maybe Windows<->Linux would progress
[02:39] <lotusleaf> and look what's happening now
[02:40] <lotusleaf> bookmark corel/microsoft related news to compare to novell/microsoft news, I tell you
[02:41] <theCore> lotusleaf, hopefully, you are wrong...
[02:42] <theCore> losing Novell would bad for the business image of Linux
[02:42] <lotusleaf> theCore: hopefully convicted monopolies change
[02:43] <lotusleaf> theCore: really? I disagree
[02:43] <lotusleaf> theCore: where was Novell in the Linux game prior to SuSE?
[02:43] <theCore> lotusleaf, I don't see how it could help
[02:44] <theCore> lotusleaf, having big companies on our side is a good thing
[02:45] <lotusleaf> theCore: adhering to a correct philosophy is the right thing
[02:45] <theCore> lotusleaf, sure
[02:47] <lotusleaf> so, if a certain large corporation was interested in windows<->linux working together, why wasn't this done around six years ago with Corel Linux, which was a debian based distribution with an easy-to-use graphical installer?
[02:49] <theCore> ok, I am off
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> I'm still lost on the background of intro-distro politics and what's going on here
[02:50] <theCore> I think it would be better to wait. Right, it is just unproductive and useless
[02:50] <theCore> Right now/
[02:50] <lotusleaf> and, on the same subject, if a certain large corporation was interested in windows<->linux working together, then what happened here?: "Gentoo Linux founder quits Microsoft" http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39252292,00.htm
[02:50] <lotusleaf> theCore: we've already waited
[02:50] <lotusleaf> theCore: six years ago with the corel/microsoft partnership
[02:51] <lotusleaf> theCore: and now the people who care about open source are acting
[02:52] <theCore> lotusleaf, the "open source" term is dead, if what you say is true. Microsoft wash it with bleach until it's all white and then they will put their evil sauce on it.
[02:53] <lotusleaf> theCore: lol, yeah, and bsd is still reported as dying by some :P
[02:53] <lotusleaf> ?"
[02:53] <lotusleaf> "Robbins told ZDNet UK in an email on Monday that he decided to leave because he was not able to use all his technical skills in his role."
[02:53] <lotusleaf> ^^ from the last link I referenced here above
[02:54] <lotusleaf> wow, that's odd
[02:54] <lotusleaf> theCore: it'll take people who resist, like gandhi, to continue fights for freedom
[02:55] <theCore> lotusleaf, eh
[02:56] <lotusleaf> theCore: and before you make any additional comments to me, please answer the questions I posed to you earlier which remain unanswered, thanks. :)
[02:56] <theCore> lotusleaf, are you talking about Richard M. Stallman?
[02:56] <lotusleaf> ^^ see above
[02:56] <theCore> which question?
[02:57] <lotusleaf> theCore: if you were following the discussion, you should know, I'm not going to go back again.
[02:57] <theCore> about BSD?
[02:57] <lotusleaf> no, further back.
 theCore: I don't see how informing people about something is giving it a bad image, could you please enlighten my understanding of your position, please?
[02:58] <theCore> that one?
[02:58] <lotusleaf> theCore: there were a couple of others, but that may have been one of them.
[03:01] <lotusleaf> theCore: if you don't have the time, since you said "<theCore> ok, I am off" that's fine, please don't feel obligated to respond.
[03:02] <theCore> *sigh*
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> We're falling from the digg front page at least
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> 6th
[03:13] <lotusleaf> "Government lawyers want to know more about a deal in which Microsoft gave Corel, perhaps best known for its WordPerfect program, $135 million in exchange for 24 million shares of Corel stock last October.""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system."
[03:13] <lotusleaf> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A5576-2001Feb14&notFound=true
[03:17] <lotusleaf> I rest my case
[03:27] <theCore> lotusleaf, The leadership of Linux won't be gained by acting like pre-scholars. Microsoft's developers are smart. They have good engineers, good PR firm, and a ton of money. To win, our only weapon is cooperation. That's the meaning of free software, to improve and share back. We certainly won't get that by posting stories about the inter-distro wars. Novell's decision was certainly motivated by something we don't know;
[03:27] <theCore> I doubt they aren't aware of how the Corel/Microsoft turned out. So, that why we should abstain from messing up in their things. Instead, we should spend our time making Ubuntu rocks the world.
[03:27] <theCore> Hopefully, that should answer your questions
[03:28] <theCore> </end of the big rant>
[03:28] <lotusleaf> theCore: where did cooperation get OS/2?
[03:29] <lotusleaf> theCore: cooperation?: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
[03:29] <lotusleaf> theCore: the open source community knows how to cooperate
[03:29] <lotusleaf> theCore: I'd say it's past time for someone else to learn how
[03:30] <lotusleaf> theCore: again, I use the gandhi comparison, to resist
[03:30] <theCore> lotusleaf, what about zealot and all the other people that poisons communities?
[03:31] <lotusleaf> theCore: some called gandhi a zealot too
[03:31] <lotusleaf> theCore: sticks and stones
[03:31] <lotusleaf> theCore: most people don't know what a philosophy is, let alone to know what it's like to live with one
[03:34] <lotusleaf> theCore: if "Microsoft's developers are smart. They have good engineers, good PR firm, and a ton of money" why don't we see Corel Linux and Wine today being developed by Microsoft?
[03:34] <lotusleaf> again, from the washingtonpost.com article I quoted ""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system.""
[03:34] <lotusleaf> does that sound smart to you?
[03:36] <theCore> lotusleaf, I'm well aware that Microsoft do not play nice with other companies. I am also against the Novell/Microsoft deal, but that doesn't mean I would go troll on their mailing list.
[03:36] <lotusleaf> theCore: is an extended hand a troll?
[03:36] <theCore> lotusleaf, Microsoft is a cooperation. They are there to make money.
[03:37] <lotusleaf> theCore: so was Enron
[03:37] <tonyyarusso> lotusleaf: When it's phrased like it was, probably
[03:38] <theCore> lotusleaf, they certainly don't care about open source
[03:39] <theCore> lotusleaf, They only want their monopoly, to make more money.
[03:41] <lotusleaf> anyway, I'm getting sleepy
[03:41] <theCore> me too...
[03:42] <lotusleaf> I just hope everything works out, I used to use SUSE, for years actually, prior to Novell coming into the SUSE scene
[03:42] <theCore> ok, I am off for real now
[03:42] <lotusleaf> theCore: have a good one
[03:42] <theCore> good night lotusleaf
[03:42] <lotusleaf> ;)
[05:36] <lotusleaf> Madpilot: yo
[05:36] <Madpilot> hi lotusleaf
[05:36] <ulinskie> hello I got a question
[05:37] <ulinskie> can I sell tshirts that has the ubuntu logo in it
[05:37] <ulinskie> ?
[05:37] <ulinskie> considering that I won't change anything in the logo?
[05:39] <Madpilot> ulinskie, you'll need to contact Canonical, but yes, you can. See http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy/
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> I think they basically hand out an "OK" rubber stamp to anyone who asks that's doing something legit.
[05:41] <Madpilot> I think so, yeah. trademark@ubuntu.com
[05:47] <Burgundavia> lotusleaf: sorry, I missed your message with the pastebin
[05:47] <Burgundavia> next time
[05:48] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: hi, oh, do those expire?
[05:48] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: I sent you a memo
[05:48] <Burgundavia> no, I got it
[05:48] <Burgundavia> but the fridge has already gone live
[05:49] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: oh, apologies, I should've e-mailed you as you requested. I will e-mail you next time. =)
[05:49] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: thanks for following up. ;)
[05:49] <Burgundavia> no worries
[05:50] <ulinskie> thanks Madpilot
[05:52] <Burgundavia> hmm, greg k-h has a good post about companies
[05:52] <Burgundavia> http://www.kroah.com/log/2006/11/24/#community
[05:53] <Burgundavia> basically a commentary on Novells recent moves
[05:54] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: are you familiar with the Corel/Microsoft situation six years or so ago and Corel Linux and Wine in relation?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> not much
[05:54] <lotusleaf> ah
[05:54] <lotusleaf> it's delicious when compared to current events
[05:54] <Burgundavia> didn't Corel sponsor Wine developers?
[05:55] <lotusleaf> here's a few to check out on the subject:
[05:55] <lotusleaf> http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/16/corel.linux.on.ms.idg/index.html
[05:55] <lotusleaf> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A5576-2001Feb14&notFound=true
[05:56] <lotusleaf> http://www.forbes.com/2000/10/03/1003corel.html
[05:56] <lotusleaf> that's just a few, there are plenty more
[05:56] <lotusleaf> "Government lawyers want to know more about a deal in which Microsoft gave Corel, perhaps best known for its WordPerfect program, $135 million in exchange for 24 million shares of Corel stock last October.""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system."
[05:56] <lotusleaf> ^ from the washingtonpost link
[05:56] <Burgundavia> ah, interesting
[05:56] <lotusleaf> I say, set your bookmarks to the corel/microsoft related links, and compare them years from now to novell/microsoft
[05:57] <Burgundavia> makes for a facinating blog post
[05:57] <lotusleaf> if Microsoft wanted to bring Windows and Linux together, why didn't they do it when they partnered with Corel around six years ago? (if, indeed, it was a partnership, correct me if I'm wrong please) Does anyone remember Corel Linux? It, like Ubuntu, was a Debian based Linux distribution, with an easy to use graphical installer! And this was around six years ago! Anyone who wants to gain an enlightened perspective can
[05:57] <lotusleaf> google about Corel Linux and Microsoft and inform themselves. Here are a few important articles:
[05:57] <lotusleaf> yup
[05:57] <lotusleaf> I was going to do a long article on it but I got bored and quit
[05:58] <Burgundavia> oh the delicious irony
[05:58] <lotusleaf> indeed
[05:58] <lotusleaf> back then people were excited (and some, divided) thinking Corel/Microsoft would be a big Windows<->Linux togetherness love-in
[05:59] <lotusleaf> be sure to include: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
[05:59] <lotusleaf> for further enlightenment =) corel mentioned there too
[05:59] <Burgundavia> oh, even more delicious. Corel bought WordPerfect from Novell
[05:59] <lotusleaf> =)
[05:59] <Burgundavia> One thing is clear. Linux stands to become the latest in a string of abandoned revival strategies for Corel.
[05:59] <Burgundavia> s/Corel/Novell
[06:00] <lotusleaf> I love the mention of wine 1.0 around six years ago
[06:00] <poningru> yarr
[06:00] <lotusleaf> in the cnn link
[06:00] <lotusleaf> poningru: yo
[06:00] <lotusleaf> and, on the same subject, if a certain large corporation was interested in windows<->linux working together, then what happened here?: "Gentoo Linux founder quits Microsoft" http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39252292,00.htm
[06:01] <lotusleaf> IMO I don't see how anything good can come from the novell/microsoft partnership
[06:01] <lotusleaf> not looking at history
[06:05] <poningru> well no I do see something good coming from it
[06:06] <poningru> the CIO's that are too stupid to be anything but 'real corp', 'anti-GPL' may finally see some legitimacy in linux
[06:08] <lotusleaf> poningru: I think more people should be informed about the Corel/Microsoft past, believe me, Corel Linux was miles ahead of other Linux graphical installers for ease of use, there was even a Corel Linux for Dummies book
[06:09] <lotusleaf> sure, Corel Linux eventually turned into Xandros, but that's not the point
[06:09] <lotusleaf> And where did the Wine support from Corel go?
[06:11] <lotusleaf> a lot of people joke about M$ and for years have compared it to The Borg from ST:TNG, yet they continue to buy xboxes and other products from them, even if they dislike the company. They forget lesson one regarding "The Borg" in ST:TNG, and that is that you have to resist.
but...but... resistance is futile</joke>
[06:16] <lotusleaf> :')
[06:24] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, do we want to work on the UWN?
[06:26] <Burgundavia> yep, but right now I am cooking dinner and writing a completely hilarious blog post
[06:26] <elkbuntu> lol
[06:27] <tonyyarusso> I should really do a worthwhile blog post...it's been a while
[06:28] <elkbuntu> when you've finished doing those ever so important things, pipe some of your 'this would be good for the UWN' mail my way for me to work on writing out
[06:28] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: if it's re: the corel/microsoft thing, please make it a beauty ;)
[06:28] <Burgundavia> i am trying
[06:28] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: want additional links?
[06:29] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: it'll take me a little while, but I can google more up
[06:29] <Burgundavia> sure
[06:29] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: I'm on it. =)
[06:32] <lotusleaf> the ghost of linux past: "By early 2000, Corel also will have its graphics software available for Linux, including CorelDraw, PhotoPaint, and Ventura, he said." http://news.com.com/2100-1040-224462.html
[06:32] <lotusleaf> i'll pastebin the rest when I'm done collecting ;)
[06:34] <poningru> indeed
[06:35] <poningru> hmm didnt know corel was such a big linux comp back in the day
[06:35] <tonyyarusso> I'm still off-balance from someone sending me files created with Paint
[06:37] <lotusleaf> comedy gold: "Are all Corel applications going to be available for Linux?Yes, absolutely. We are also considering acquisition of other applications of Windows to port over to Linux, to make our portfolio even more complete." http://linuxgazette.net/issue50/advani.html
[06:39] <poningru> wow
[06:40] <tonyyarusso> Me too
[06:40] <poningru> I love the email a 'Shark Muddleworth' sent to the -devel list
[06:40] <tonyyarusso> It seems out of character
[06:40] <poningru> tonyyarusso: indeed
[06:43] <Burgundavia> no, it is completely within character for Mark
[06:44] <Burgundavia> he decided he wanted OpenSUSE developers and so he went for them, 2 feet in
[06:46] <tonyyarusso> Well, the deciciveness maybe, but not the rudeness.
[06:46] <lotusleaf> haha: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10799&cid=398300
[06:47] <lotusleaf> "1) Corel announces intent to work with Linux. 2) Microsoft invests in Corel. 3) Corel backs off on Linux. 4) Microsoft pulls support because of DOJ pressure. 5) Corel re-affirms Linux commitment. I feel like a pattern is emerging."
[06:47] <poningru> Burgundavia: hehe someone just linked to your blog post on osnews
[06:47] <poningru> not the main article but a comment
[06:47] <Burgundavia> ah
[06:48] <poningru> http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=16562&comment_id=185218
[06:49] <lotusleaf> as I mentioned earlier, corel linux for dummies: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764506676/ref=cap_pdp_dp_0/102-6158738-3031347
[06:49] <poningru> nice
[06:49] <Burgundavia> yep, saw it
[06:49] <Burgundavia> the number of interconnecting lines between Corel and Novell is stunning
[06:50] <Burgundavia> "Corel Corporation has entered into what it calls a strategic alliance with Microsoft which will lead to the Canadian companys in"volvement in Microsofts .NET initiative
[06:51] <Burgundavia> "The
[06:51] <Burgundavia> deal we did with Microsoft was to give us
[06:51] <Burgundavia> access to the .NET functionality that they are
[06:51] <Burgundavia> developing"
[06:51] <Burgundavia> s/.net/patents/
[06:51] <lotusleaf> ok here comes a pastebin of links for you, these are just a few I found, there's plenty more (though I expect a lot of them to mysteriously vanish in the future like some links I've found in the past casting any negative light)
[06:51] <lotusleaf> !pastebin
[06:51] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[06:52] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/33847/
[06:52] <lotusleaf> enjoy ;)
 the number of interconnecting lines between Corel and Novell is stunning
[06:52] <lotusleaf> ^^ indeed
[06:53] <Burgundavia> even the dates match up
[06:54] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: received pastebin page okay?
[06:54] <Burgundavia> yep, got it
[06:54] <Burgundavia> thanks
[06:54] <lotusleaf> awesome, yw
[06:55] <elkbuntu> are you doing it in http://bash.org/?610847 format?
[06:56] <Burgundavia> close
[06:56] <Burgundavia> there is just so much to talk about
[06:56] <Burgundavia> how to boil it all down to something readable
[06:56] <lotusleaf> "feed, feed, feed a fire"
[06:58] <Burgundavia> however, we must all remember: Hug a Novell engineer today. It's not their fault
[06:58] <Burgundavia> from #gnome-hackers topic, posted by jdub
[06:58] <lotusleaf> :P
[06:58] <poningru> bwhahahahaha
[06:58] <elkbuntu> hehehe
[07:00] <Burgundavia> ok, this no heat thing sucks
[07:00] <Burgundavia> it is Nov, in Canada, and I have no heat in my house
[07:00] <Burgundavia> and THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT
[07:00] <elkbuntu> that's a bit stupid of you
[07:01] <elkbuntu> :( why not?
[07:01] <Burgundavia> landlord promised us a new furnace in sept, cause ours is dead
[07:01] <Burgundavia> it is now nov
[07:01] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: ever considered one of those corn burning heaters?
[07:02] <Burgundavia> ummm
[07:02] <Burgundavia> I live in a house in a city, not a shack
[07:02] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: We had a similar situation, but less crucial than a furnace.  I just gave them the list of things that needed to be done before I would write the next check.
[07:02] <Burgundavia> I have things like electricty and the interweb
[07:02] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: correct, it's not a ghetto stereotype
[07:02] <Burgundavia> we plan on that, as well
[07:03] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, go buy a $30 bar heater until then
[07:03] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: one of the shows I was watching had a family heating their 2 story home with it, cheaper than regular heating
[07:03] <Burgundavia> given I only pay $250/month and the rest of the house is quite nice
[07:03] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: we have one of those
[07:03] <elkbuntu> wow... that is pretty decent
[07:04] <Burgundavia> given average rent is $400 for a room around here, ya
[07:06] <Burgundavia> I left a very scathing message on my landlords phone today. the new furnace was supposed to be installed today
[07:06] <Burgundavia> the third time he has promised us a date and failed to deliver
[07:07] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, you still cuddling your laptop to keep warm down there?
[07:07] <Burgundavia> pretty much
[07:07] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: if your house was in a reasonable part of town, I would come over
[07:07] <lotusleaf> "Shelled Corn   7000 BTU/lb (16,200 kJ/kg) at 15% Moisture Content" vs. "Wood   8000 BTU/lb (18,500 kJ/kg) Air Dried" http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/facts/93-023.htm
[07:08] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: You've let heat go for two months without being more drastic?  You're a more passive person than I'd be.
[07:08] <lotusleaf> that's an ancient article, but one example
[07:08] <Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: he has kept promising dates and failing to deliver
[07:08] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, time to sit on the December rent cheques, me thinks.
[07:08] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: For sure
[07:08] <Burgundavia> we cannot legally sit on the rent cheque, but I intent to extract money from him
[07:08] <Burgundavia> intend, rather
[07:08] <tonyyarusso> And subtract $25 per day from what you owe him until it's installed.
[07:09] <tonyyarusso> We can legally do whatever the hell we want - no lease, and it's _really_ hard for them to kick us out with Ptbo's tenant law
[07:09] <Burgundavia> bc is a bit stricter
[07:09] <Burgundavia> bloody liberals
[07:10] <Madpilot> capital L on that, please.
[07:10] <Burgundavia> sorry, yes
[07:10] <poningru> dude just buy old boxen
[07:10] <poningru> have them all running folding@home
[07:10] <elkbuntu> Madpilot, bLoody liberals?
[07:10] <poningru> rofl
[07:10] <poningru> thats what I do
[07:10] <poningru> I mean our temp lowest is like 4degrees
[07:10] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, there you go, buy a couple of those older Intel CPUs infamous for being stupidly hot. Who needs a furnace?
[07:10] <poningru> exactly
[07:11] <poningru> and you are doing some good
[07:11] <elkbuntu> and running up the electricity bill
[07:11] <Burgundavia> right
[07:11] <lotusleaf> or just jumprope on some suse cds
[07:11] <Burgundavia> be nice
[07:11] <poningru> elkbuntu: same amount as the heater
[07:11] <lotusleaf> hey, I used suse for years, well before novell came into the picture =)
[07:12] <lotusleaf> besides, i didn't even mention my red letter N angry puppet
[07:12] <Burgundavia> I am shocked that the mark stuff has not yet hit /.
[07:13] <poningru> indeed
[07:13] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, same
[07:13] <Burgundavia> it has hit the front of digg
[07:13] <poningru> lotusleaf: your what?
[07:13] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: what else is new, sometimes it takes days
[07:14] <Burgundavia> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mark_Shuttleworth_Ubuntu_welcoming_OpenSUSE_developers#c3967652
[07:14] <Madpilot> night all (yes, I know it's early, I've got to be up @ 0600...)
[07:15] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: gee, I wonder who could've written that :P
[07:15] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: how did you get sucked into running that LoCo stuff
[07:15] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: have you read the goetia?
[07:15] <Burgundavia> no
[07:15] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, i was not aware of how it was going to be promoted
[07:15] <Burgundavia> right, but did jono approach you?
[07:16] <elkbuntu> yes
[07:16] <Burgundavia> hmm, I never got an email. Odd
[07:17] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, he didnt email me. he asked me a few days ago
[07:17] <Burgundavia> ah
[07:17] <Burgundavia> that would be it
[07:17] <Burgundavia> I have been off irc for a few days
[07:17] <elkbuntu> it's been mostly hush-hush until his (jono's) blog post yesterday
[07:26] <elkbuntu> afk a bit
[07:36] <towsonu2003> hi
[07:36] <Burgundavia> hey towsonu2003
[07:37] <towsonu2003> hi Burgundavia how is it going?
[07:37] <lotusleaf> towsonu2003: yo
[07:37] <Burgundavia> not bad
[07:37] <towsonu2003> hey lotusleaf
[07:38] <Burgundavia> our not-so-SABDFL is shooting himself in the foot
[07:38] <towsonu2003> heheh
[07:38] <towsonu2003> lol
[07:38] <towsonu2003> crap happens from time to time
[07:38] <towsonu2003> ;)
[07:39] <Burgundavia> it does
[07:40] <towsonu2003> I think the same way as he does (kind of), but voicing of that thought by a dictator is something else :)
[07:41] <towsonu2003> will you put it into the newsletter?
[07:41] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[07:41] <towsonu2003> :)
[08:14] <elkbuntu> Burgundavia, *still* writing that post?
[08:15] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:44] <elkbuntu> whaaaaa? he's not going to post the blog post now, is he :(
[08:45] <lotusleaf> he didn't say.. /queue twilight zone music
[08:45] <lotusleaf> ah, the suspense
[09:08] <poningru__> waah?
[09:44] <lotusleaf> *<:O)
[10:20] <lotusleaf> Burgundavia: objective complete?
[11:40] <Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you still around?
[11:40] <elkbuntu> yeah
[11:40] <elkbuntu> where's the funny blog?
[11:41] <Burgundavia> coming, but I am aboutg to head to sleep
[01:09] <MenZa> jenda: posters got here
[01:09] <jenda> yay 
[01:10] <jenda> how are they?
[01:10] <MenZa> still opening them :D
[01:10] <jenda> hehe 
[01:11] <tsmithe-ghost> i like the packaging ... never got anything from prague before
[01:11] <MenZa> hehe
[01:11] <MenZa> wow jenda
[01:11] <MenZa> Awesome prints
[01:11] <jenda> although I didn't find a way to tape it more neatly without taking a horrible amount of time.
[01:11] <jenda> 
[01:12] <jenda> it has to be all taped over, or the post office complains.
[01:12] <tsmithe-ghost> mine wasnt all taped over
[01:12] <MenZa> They've gotten some folds, but that's ok
[01:12] <jenda> tsmithe-ghost: I guess you were before that, then ;)
[01:12] <jenda> they did complain, trust me.
[01:13] <tsmithe-ghost> i do
[01:13] <jenda> tsmithe-ghost: did you have a staple in yours?
[01:13] <tsmithe-ghost> nope. they were all smooth and round
[01:14] <elkbuntu> jenda, how long ago did you send mine?
[01:14] <MenZa> elkbuntu: they're excellent
[01:14] <MenZa> jenda: I'll see if I can hand some at school
[01:14] <tsmithe-ghost> they took five days to get to me in the uk - be patient
[01:14] <elkbuntu> meanwhile, ubuntu philosophy now applies to food http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20061125.READ25/TPStory/TPEntertainment/Style/
[01:14] <jenda> elkbuntu: I think they went with the last batch.
[01:15] <jenda> that would be tuesday?
[01:15] <jenda> or maybe teh one before that... which would be monday two weeks ago...
[01:15] <tsmithe-ghost> my batch!
[01:15] <jenda> hehe
[01:16] <MenZa> jenda: compliment your printer, they're excellent
[01:16] <tsmithe-ghost> yeah, do
[01:16] <jenda> tsmithe-ghost: yours must've been before thta, because that was the stapled one ;)
[01:16] <jenda> MenZa: thanks :)
[01:16] <jenda> will stick to them, then, if there's more.
[01:16] <tsmithe-ghost> jenda, well, it was a few weeks ago and a monday, all i know
[01:16] <jenda> it's always a monday ;)
[01:16] <jenda> but this week I didn't make it.
[01:19] <elkbuntu> due to fatigue and alcohol, i cant find the reference. no worry
[01:19] <jenda> hehe :)
[01:21] <jenda> elkbuntu: ordered 10 days ago...
[01:21] <jenda> which means you've still got time ;)
[01:21] <elkbuntu> i want shinies
[01:21] <jenda> hehe
[01:22] <jenda> well, if you're really impatient, why not order again, they might make it this time :)
[01:22] <elkbuntu> lol
[01:22] <elkbuntu> i cant even rememmerb how many i ordered. 10?
[01:23] <MenZa> oh and jenda, how much will the tee's be? white on black?
[01:23] <jenda> whoa
[01:23] <jenda> I'm not near that yet :)
[01:23] <jenda> But if I do it, the price will be $15
[01:23] <jenda> and I'm inclined to the white on black.
[01:23] <MenZa> White on black > black on white
[01:23] <MenZa> I hate white tshirts
[01:23] <jenda> elkbuntu: and you expect _me_ to remember? :)
[01:24] <elkbuntu> jenda, yes, white on black plz
[01:25] <jenda> the debate isn't between white on black and black on white - it's white on black vs brown on beige.
[01:25] <elkbuntu> oooh
[01:25] <elkbuntu> now you're making it complicated
[01:26] <jenda> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=305605
[01:26] <jenda> lol - it's 15:15
[01:27] <MenZa> Beige on brown sounds nice jenda
[01:27] <MenZa> ALWAYS do light on dark
[01:27] <jenda> eek
[01:27] <jenda> they don't have a brown shirt.
[01:27] <jenda> So vote for the white on black ;)
[01:28] <MenZa> I like that shirt though, the beige/brownish one
[01:29] <elkbuntu> what do you mean they dont hav ea brown one? why'd they offer you then?
[01:29] <MenZa> jenda: ...can they do embroided polo shirts?
[01:29] <MenZa> If they can, gimme a price
[01:29] <MenZa> now, game!
[01:29] <jenda> elkbuntu: they offered what you see there.
[01:32] <jenda> elkbuntu: 10 posters it was.
[01:33] <elkbuntu> jenda, cool, that should be enough for me to stick some up around here and still have some for LCA
[01:33] <jenda> you guys are making my life difficult :)
[01:33] <jenda> the black tees have a much wider selection, including girl-cut tees.
[01:34] <jenda> oh well, no one forces me to abide by the poll anyway ;)
[01:34] <elkbuntu> oh..
[01:34] <elkbuntu> you should have said that before
[01:36] <jenda> I added it to the OP.
[01:37] <jenda> this poster thing has rotated $500. That's a scary amount for me ;)
[01:37] <jenda> and there is at least $200 more to gain - for the next project :)
[01:38] <jenda> I can even afford projects that don't gain money now - which means I could do flyers or even booth-banners.
[01:46] <jenda> MenZa: how much would it cost me to get a batch of about 200 or maybe more of tiny B&W Ubuntu logo stickers, similar to the small square ones you sent me?
[01:46] <jenda> MenZa: I like being able to tag the outgoing packages 
[02:57] <jenda> MenZa: make that 1000
[03:11] <MenZa> jenda: oh not much--a couple of tee's perhaps
[03:11] <jenda> hehe :)
[03:12] <jenda> I like this business...
[03:12] <MenZa> :D
[03:12] <jenda> but since I don't have the tees yet...
[03:12] <tsmithe> jenda: thought you weren't a business-man!
[03:12] <jenda> seriously - what are the production costs there?
[03:12] <MenZa> 100--do you want the logo centered this time?
[03:12] <jenda> tsmithe: argh :)
[03:12] <MenZa> I'm not sure
[03:12] <jenda> MenZa: I'll have to think about it.
[03:12] <jenda> Why is the logo in the corner?
[03:13] <MenZa> That's how my old keyboard was designed
[03:13] <MenZa> Keys in the corner ;)
[03:13] <elkbuntu>  the barter system
[03:16] <jenda> hehe
[03:16] <jenda> oooh
[03:16] <jenda> oooooh
[03:16] <jenda> !!!
[03:16] <jenda> NOW I KNOW what they are for :)
[03:16] <jenda> ooooh :)
[03:16] <tsmithe> hello?
[03:16] <tsmithe> you feeling alright?
[03:17] <jenda> Now I'm feeling great...
[03:17] <jenda> I have an Ubuntu key instead of the Win key :)
[03:18] <tsmithe> wow
[03:18] <jenda> why didn't I think of that?
[03:18] <jenda> don't you dare answer.
[03:19] <tsmithe> cos you're smelly
[03:19] <jenda> don't do that to chanops ;)
[03:19] <tsmithe> oooo is that a threat?
[03:20] <jenda> no, it's a well known IRC rule ;)
[03:20] <tsmithe> o really?
[03:20] <jenda> as well as the fact that chanops are supposed to be the responsible guys that don't abuse their powers to further personal needs, and less so to act agains people they have grudges against...
[03:21] <tsmithe> i know that one... and of course i do hold you to it ;)
[03:22] <tsmithe> mwahahahahahaha
[03:23] <jenda> 
[03:23] <elkbuntu> MenZa, we need to talk stickers, my dear
[03:23] <MenZa> You'll have to talk to jenda ;)
[03:23] <elkbuntu> MenZa, i've already bought him out
[03:23] <tsmithe> i wanna know what these mystery stickers look like
[03:23] <MenZa> elkbuntu: :O
[03:24] <jenda> MenZa: this evil lady bought all of the Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu stuff I had...
[03:24] <MenZa> holy crap
[03:24] <elkbuntu> MenZa, LCA is going to be the stickeryest ubuntu place ever
[03:24] <jenda> ... and I had to stop her before she reached my round logos!
[03:24] <MenZa> Awesome!
[03:24] <tsmithe> could i have a sticker?
[03:24] <MenZa> What will you need?
[03:24] <jenda> Well, she did pay only about 1/5 of the price, but still ;)
[03:24] <MenZa> lol
[03:24] <elkbuntu> yeah.. more round logos to go please.. and some of them key stickers too plz :D
[03:25] <MenZa> rgr
[03:25] <MenZa> How many will you need?
[03:25] <tsmithe> i think it's unfair that you three are the only ones allowed stickers :(
[03:25] <jenda> tsmithe: you're allowed them too :)
[03:25] <jenda> would you like some?
[03:26] <elkbuntu> tsmithe, we're not. its jsut a matter of the quick and the dead
[03:26] <tsmithe> jenda: what are they like? cost? how many you got?
[03:26] <tsmithe> elkbuntu, i've been trying to be quick ;)
[03:26] <jenda> well, they cost $3 per 10 for the small case badges, and $2 for the big logo ones...
[03:26] <elkbuntu> tsmithe, im teh quickr
[03:27] <jenda> http://flickr.com/photos/menza/190241486/
[03:27] <elkbuntu> MenZa, i'll need to decide that when sober
[03:27] <jenda> tsmithe: I have hundreds of Ubuntu case badges... but barely any of the other types :)
[03:27] <MenZa> elkbuntu: right, lasse @ havelund dot org :)
[03:27] <elkbuntu> of course :)
[03:28] <elkbuntu> i needs sleep now, so i shall stagger in the general direction of my bed now
[03:28] <tsmithe> jenda: from that site: which are which?
[03:29] <jenda> tsmithe: the tiny ones are the Ubuntu/K/X/Edu
[03:29] <MenZa> Goodnight, elkbuntu :)
[03:30] <jenda> tsmithe: the round is the logo.
[03:30] <MenZa> (Xubuntu not shown)
[03:30] <jenda> righ t:)
[03:30] <jenda> and the big white - err...
[03:30] <MenZa> I sent a few of those
[03:30] <jenda> elkbuntu has all of those now.
[03:30] <jenda> 
[03:30] <MenZa> I can do more, it's no problem
[03:30] <tsmithe> elkbuntu, i'll beat you yet!
[03:31] <elkbuntu> tsmithe, you're in the know now, you'll be fine
[03:31] <tsmithe> i was always in the know!
[03:31] <elkbuntu> clearly not
[03:32] <MenZa> you definitely weren't fast enough
[03:32] <MenZa> :p
[03:32] <tsmithe> well i tried to be ;)
[03:32] <tsmithe> bah...
[03:32] <elkbuntu> anyway afk for that sleep thing now
[03:32] <tsmithe> how many stickers do i need?
[03:33] <MenZa> just one, most likely
[03:33] <jenda> tsmithe: that's up to you, but I don't like shipping less than 1 logo or 10 little ones.
[03:33] <tsmithe> 1 logo? how can you ship less!
[03:33] <jenda> in other words: buy by batches: 10 little ones and logos.
[03:33] <tsmithe> i know to buy by batches
[03:34] <jenda> well, I guess I would ship one logo and 5 stickers, but I wouldn't ship only 5 little ones :)
[03:34] <jenda> whatever, you know what I mean :)
[03:34] <MenZa> jenda: I shall assume you need some of the special stickers then? Big logo ones, and the other thingamajics?
[03:34] <MenZa> And the keythingamajics
[03:35] <jenda> MenZa: first of all, I need to know the prices. I can't keep on accepting them from you for nothing.
[03:35] <tsmithe> ah the keythinamajics... are those like the one on my poster packaging?
[03:35] <MenZa> right
[03:35] <jenda> tsmithe: yes.
[03:35] <MenZa> jenda: hold on for a second
[03:36] <MenZa> HOLY FUCK
[03:36] <MenZa> http://firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=1344&src_t=hmf <- *drool*
[03:36] <MenZa> Sorry about that
[03:38] <MenZa> jenda: let's see
[03:39] <MenZa> jenda: will you need any of the small ones?
[03:39] <jenda> not really.
[03:40] <MenZa> okay
[03:40] <MenZa> so key ones, round logo ones and [ O Ubuntu ]  ones
[03:40] <jenda> O Ubuntu ? :)
[03:40] <MenZa> The big roundish ones
[03:40] <MenZa> well
[03:40] <MenZa> rounded corners
[03:41] <jenda> oook.
[03:41] <MenZa> rectangle
[03:41] <jenda> gotcha.
[03:41] <jenda> yes.
[03:41] <MenZa> 500 key ones, 100 logo ones and 100 [ O Ubuntu ]  Ones -- in return for this: http://www.firebox.com/index.html?dir=firebox&action=product&pid=599&src_t=sbk&src_id=coffee
[03:41] <MenZa> xD
[03:41] <MenZa> I'm a consumer whore.
[03:41] <jenda> deal.
[03:41] <jenda> you're crazy :)
[03:41] <MenZa> Yes, that was a cheap purchase for you ;)
[03:41] <jenda> but it's great business with you :-d
[03:41] <MenZa> :D
[03:42] <MenZa> 100 logo ones... oh, so much work in those
[03:42] <MenZa> I have to applicate them and stuff
[03:42] <MenZa> I'm gonna go print them later
[03:42] <jenda> MenZa: I'm still not sure if the little ones should be centered...
[03:42] <jenda> ooh... you don't have to do 100 if it's too much work.
[03:42] <MenZa> hm, how many would you say is acceptable?
[03:43] <MenZa> After all, I do this for myself, AND Ubuntu promotion ;)
[03:43] <jenda> How's this: 1000 black tags, 50 logos, 100 long ones?
[03:44] <jenda> I intend to give the black tags to everyone that makes Ubuntu promotional material, to tag envelopes ;)
[03:44] <MenZa> Hmm, that's a lot of black ink
[03:44] <jenda> tsmithe: Ubuntu promotional material works great ;)
[03:44] <jenda> tsmithe: how much time'v you got?
[03:44] <jenda> MenZa: aha... didn't think of that...
[03:44] <tsmithe> lots: why?
[03:44] <MenZa> jenda: how about inverted?
[03:44] <MenZa> Black on white?
[03:45] <jenda> tsmithe: you could pick up a promotional moterial project, it makes real big cash.
[03:45] <tsmithe> ok...
[03:45] <tsmithe> but what haven't you covered?
[03:45] <jenda> I was being cheap, but the posters will generate about $200 profit...
[03:45] <jenda> I've only done stickers and posters.
[03:45] <jenda> MenZa: hmm...
[03:45] <jenda> I like the black, because it can be seen on teh envelope...
[03:46] <MenZa> hold on a second ;)
[03:46] <jenda> but the logo can be larger, I guess ;) big & centered.
[03:46] <jenda> that could save a bit.
[03:46] <MenZa> a bit yeah :)
[03:46] <jenda> tsmithe: there is tons... t-shirts probably most profitable...
[03:47] <tsmithe> i thought you were doing t-shirts!
[03:47] <jenda> I haven't even started yet - and I was going to hand the project over to some american screen-printer...
[03:48] <tsmithe> a what now?
[03:48] <jenda> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=70600&highlight=shirt
[03:48] <tsmithe> i think i'm subscribed to that
[03:48] <tsmithe> no
[03:48] <tsmithe> no that one
[03:49] <jenda> hehe
[03:49] <jenda> it's an old one I dug up :)
[03:51] <MenZa> jenda: query.
[03:52] <jenda> anytime...
[03:52] <jenda> in his stomach...
[03:54] <tsmithe> mmm... i dont think i can do t-shirts...
[03:54] <tsmithe> i want to do something new
[03:57] <jenda> well, then you'll have to think of somethnig :)
[04:01] <jenda> I think that weird feeling couldda been hunger...
[04:05] <jenda> ok, that sounds like a bugfix.
[04:06] <tsmithe> hunger's not really a bug, more like a feature
[04:06] <tsmithe> stops you dying
[04:08] <tonyyarusso> I think I have that feature too
[04:08] <tonyyarusso> bloody hell
[04:08] <tsmithe> whaaaa?
[04:09] <tonyyarusso> Sorry - I'm beginning to get upset with my other computer
[04:09] <tsmithe> oh... what's it done?
[04:09] <tonyyarusso> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.17/+bug/71023
[04:10] <tsmithe> oh... someone else was telling me about that before
[04:10] <tsmithe> that is sooo weird
[04:10] <tonyyarusso> indeed
[04:10] <tsmithe> perhaps it was you...
[04:10] <tsmithe> dunno
[04:10] <tsmithe> i have a crapulous memory
[04:10] <tonyyarusso> Anyway, I am actually hungry, so that will be dealt with later
[04:11] <tsmithe> "Lots of love, just keep it coming; making something out of nothing" <- that *is* ubuntu
[04:11] <tsmithe> or debian
[04:11] <tsmithe> or gnu
[04:11] <tsmithe> no, that *is* free software
[05:23] <jenda> tsmithe: your signature gave .t. away :)
[05:24] <tsmithe> you what?
[05:24] <jenda> on the forums.
[05:24] <tsmithe> yes...?
[05:24] <jenda> I didn't know .t. was you.
[05:24] <tsmithe> oh
[05:24] <tsmithe> nor do lots of people ;)
[05:24] <tsmithe> PriceChild seemed surprised to learn
[05:24] <tsmithe> for instance
[05:25] <tsmithe> oh... and talking about signatures... could you check out http://tibsplace.co.uk and tell me if it's ok...
[05:25] <tsmithe> i've blogified it
[05:25] <tsmithe> and consolidated everything
[05:26] <jenda> what am i supposed to check?
[05:26] <tsmithe> that it's ok... looks alright... works...
[05:28] <jenda> I've read it - looks cool :)
[05:28] <tsmithe> good good
[05:28] <tsmithe> better than the original, eh (i guess you saw the original, considering you followed a link from the signature)
[05:29] <jenda> I didn't follow the link...
[05:29] <tsmithe> ?
[05:29] <jenda> I read it some time ago.
[05:29] <tsmithe> how did you find out it was me then? "<jenda> tsmithe: your signature gave .t. away :)"
[05:30] <jenda> Well, because I know about your Venezuela think for some time already.
[05:30] <jenda> And your sig has a link to it in it.
[05:30] <tsmithe> ah
[05:30] <tsmithe> right
[05:30] <tsmithe> of course :)
[05:33] <tsmithe> Page Impressions:  13,265; Clicks: 50; Earnings: USD11.05
[05:34] <tsmithe> hmm
[05:34] <tsmithe> that's obviously not gonna make me 3500
[05:36] <jenda> I don't see any ads :)
[05:37] <jenda> Now I do...
[05:37] <jenda> do they want unique clicks?
[05:38] <jenda> check now, I went on a bit of a click frenzy...
[05:38] <tsmithe> lol i dont think the like that
[05:38] <tsmithe> but thanks ;)
[05:38] <tsmithe> it takes a while to update, so it'll be there in a couple of hours
[05:39] <jenda> tsmithe: add a little note - 'please disable your adblock for a second and click a few of these ads:'
[05:40] <tsmithe> that's against the adsense policy :(
[05:40] <jenda> really?
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> Just put a big fat arrow pointing at them.
[05:40] <jenda> well, at least ask to disable adblock :)
[05:40] <tsmithe> i will
[05:41] <jenda> I would never know they are there, and most people you meet in the Ubnutu world won't either.
[05:41] <tsmithe> hmm
[05:41] <tsmithe> now check
[05:41] <jenda> cool
[05:42] <tsmithe> right... so assuming i get about thirty unique hits per day, i might get one click
[05:42] <jenda> how much per click?
[05:42] <tsmithe> they dont disclose that
[05:42] <tsmithe> it seems to vary
[05:42] <jenda> oh
[05:43] <tsmithe> some days it's a lot, others not so much
[05:43] <jenda> weird :)
[05:43] <tsmithe> i guess it's to do with how popular the keywords used by the advertisers are
[05:43] <tsmithe> or at least that's how it worked last time i checked
[05:44] <tsmithe> look at this
[05:44] <tsmithe> "Our programme terms have changed. As part of our ongoing efforts to improve the Google AdWords programme for advertisers and users, we have updated our Terms and Conditions. Please review the new Terms and Conditions below, then indicate your acceptance."
[05:44] <tsmithe> Why can't they just give me a diff!
[05:44] <jenda> hehe :)
[05:44] <tsmithe> i cannot be arsed to read through all the legalese!
[05:44] <jenda> diff yourself :)
[05:45] <tsmithe> i dont have a copy of the old ones!
[05:45] <tsmithe> at least they provide for this option to be used: " No, I do not accept the above Terms and Conditions.
[05:45] <tsmithe> (When you click on the button below, the active campaigns of your account will be paused. You can resume your advertising by logging in and accepting these Terms and Conditions at a later date.)"
[05:46] <tsmithe> damn
[05:46] <tsmithe> when i use that, it logs me out
[05:46] <tsmithe> grargh
[05:47] <jenda> hehe
[05:47] <jenda> looks like you gotta accept :)
[05:47] <jenda> extremely friendly.
[05:48] <tsmithe> i thought it was being, until i actually clicked it
[06:30] <tsmithe> hmmm... i could probs get tshirts printed for 2.50 each plus shipping
[06:30] <tsmithe> but i dont have 200 to start with
[06:30] <tsmithe> ...
[06:31] <tsmithe> that's screen printing
[06:32] <jenda> that's a good price.
[06:33] <jenda> I was looking at abotu $6, which is slightly more.
[06:33] <jenda> But for very hight quality shirts, that is.
[06:33] <tsmithe> mine would be 100% cotton ;)
[06:33] <tsmithe> http://www.indigoclothing.com
[06:35] <tsmithe> how big is demand?
[06:35] <jenda> dunno...
[06:35] <tsmithe> and i'm sceptical about what to do with different sizes ...
[06:35] <MenZa> beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeg
[06:35] <jenda> OK, MenZa's demand is beeeeeeeg....
[06:35] <jenda> dunno tsmithe.
[06:35] <jenda> I was going to print 100 pcs
[06:36] <tsmithe> how should i divide my order, should i decide to do this (unlikely), into small, medium, large, x-large, xx-large?
[06:36] <jenda> and my expenses would be covered at piece #53, not counting shipping.
[06:36] <tsmithe> i was thinking of 100 as well
[06:36] <MenZa> Large and x-large = importantnessness
[06:36] <jenda> err.. counting shipping, actually :)
[06:36] <jenda> yes, maybe a few M, XXL and XXXL, but mainly L and XL.
[06:36] <tsmithe> jenda, shipping to you or to others
[06:36] <jenda> others.
[06:36] <jenda> shipping to me would be free.
[06:37] <tsmithe> how do you know how much that will be?
[06:37] <tsmithe> surely it's different per order?
[06:37] <jenda> well, be aware that I now have some experience with shipping :)
[06:38] <jenda> and most international shipping is flat price here.
[06:38] <jenda> I guesed the weight of the package.
[06:38] <tsmithe> hmm
[06:38] <tsmithe> how many colours are the images?
[06:39] <jenda> 1
[06:39] <tsmithe> they are white on black
[06:39] <jenda> using the design I was working on.
[06:39] <tsmithe> and the t-shirts would be black...
[06:39] <jenda> or brown on beige, or beige on brown...
[06:39] <tsmithe> hmm... i'll have to look into that colour selection...
[06:40] <tsmithe> i think keeping it simple white/black is alright...
[06:41] <jenda> that's what you think :)
[06:41] <jenda> ask _them_!
[06:41] <jenda> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=305605
[06:41] <tsmithe> i've seen the thread!
[06:42] <tsmithe> damn.. it turns out more expensive than i though
[06:42] <tsmithe> 3.20 per item
[06:42] <tsmithe> i'll look at a different supplier...
[06:43] <jenda> do.
[06:44] <tsmithe> they have the best website though!!!
[06:44] <jenda> haha :)
[06:45] <jenda> careful, tsmithe.
[06:45] <tsmithe> huh?
[06:45] <jenda> It's business, like it or not :)
[06:45] <tsmithe> i know
[06:45] <jenda> and gaining money is done only when successful.
[06:45] <tsmithe> the one with the best website will probably be the most expensive...
[06:46] <tsmithe> meh... i'll email them
[06:47] <tsmithe> where would the prints be?
[06:49] <jenda> it's up to you, of course, if you want to pick it up.
[06:49] <jenda> But I was thinking left breast logo, and the roughcut poster on teh back.
[06:49] <tsmithe> cool... that seems a good idea
[06:49] <tsmithe> i'll email them
[06:51] <tsmithe> do you think they'll understand an svg file?
[06:51] <tsmithe> hope so
[06:53] <jenda> I can almost guarantee they won't, but they might accept it with an additional fee.
[06:53] <tsmithe> why do you think that?
[06:54] <jenda> because it's what my supplier told me.
[06:55] <tsmithe> also, jenda, could you point me to the logo file?
[06:55] <jenda> there is none yet.
[06:55] <tsmithe> huh?
[06:56] <jenda> there - is - no - logo - file - yet :)
[06:56] <jenda> Madpilot will make one.
[06:56] <jenda> from the roughcuts.
[06:56] <tsmithe> ah... i can do that
[06:56] <tsmithe> i'm being dumb
[06:57] <tsmithe> i was just wondering where the one at http://tibsplace.co.uk/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/Batch%201,%20T-shirts/t-shirt.png came from (sorry for the slow connection - my local mirror)
[06:58] <jenda> right :)
[06:58] <jenda> I snipped that myself.
[07:05] <tsmithe> well... i made a logo...
[07:06] <tsmithe> i'll upload it...
[07:06] <tsmithe> http://tibsplace.co.uk/roughcut/Ubuntu-roughcut-logo.svg
[07:06] <tsmithe> it looks a bit weird without a black background
[07:06] <tsmithe> ...
[07:07] <jenda> haha :)
[07:07] <jenda> why did you remove that :)
[07:07] <jenda> the printer will cope with it, don't worry.
[07:08] <jenda> besides, Madpilot is working on a bit higher quality graphics for this purpose, I think.
[07:09] <tsmithe> http://tibsplace.co.uk/roughcut/Ubuntu-roughcut-logo.png
[07:09] <tsmithe> with background
[07:10] <jenda> ok... and why exactly are you doing it now? :)
[07:10] <tsmithe> what?
[07:10] <jenda> the logo
[07:11] <tsmithe> cos i wanted to
[07:11] <jenda> ok :) that's cool.
[07:11] <tsmithe> why?
[07:11] <tsmithe> i mean, why did you ask
[07:13] <jenda> well, because madpilot will probably have a higher quality version by the time whoever orders the print needs it.
[07:14] <tsmithe> higher quality?
[07:14] <tsmithe> it's svg! infinite quality!
[07:15] <jenda> no, it's not.
[07:16] <tsmithe> huh?
[07:16] <jenda> it's infinite quality pixel-wise
[07:16] <tsmithe> it scales up surely
[07:16] <tsmithe> yeah
[07:16] <jenda> but have a look at those smudges, they look terrible.
[07:16] <tsmithe> what smudges? the black "dot"-thingies on the white logo? why terrible?
[07:17] <jenda> because they are all exactly the same.
[07:17] <tsmithe> i just noticed that :P
[07:17] <jenda> They are supposed to look 'rough' or rugged - not as copies.
[07:17] <tsmithe> yeah..
[07:17] <tsmithe> mmm
[07:18] <jenda> Dunno.
[07:18] <jenda> You should decide if you really want to do the t-shirts.
[07:20] <tsmithe> i'm just looking into it
[07:20] <tsmithe> i'll email them with the current graphics for a quote
[07:20] <tsmithe> not saying i'll buy or anything, of course
[07:22] <jenda> they don't really care about the particular graphic - they care about size, number of sides (1 or both) and number of colors.
[07:22] <jenda> and number of prints.
[07:26] <tsmithe> i can see
[07:27] <tsmithe> well, i emailed them asking for the price of 100 shirts (50 large, 20 medium, 20 extra large, 10 extra-extra-large), with a logo on the left breast, and the full image on the back
[07:28] <tsmithe> i'll post a poll in the cafe asking about sizes, i think
[07:29] <jenda> I can do that - to be consistent with the two other polls I'm having there :)
[07:29] <jenda> if you don't mind.
[07:31] <jenda> Honestly, there are still three people who might end up doing this ;)
[07:31] <tsmithe> yeah
[07:31] <tsmithe> and i probs wont
[07:31] <tsmithe> i dont think i can find 200 or so to fund this
[07:31] <tsmithe> but if i can, i will ;)
[07:31] <tsmithe> it seems lucrative
[07:32] <jenda> my estimate is 11100 CZK, which is...
[07:32] <jenda> 265
[07:32] <tsmithe> wow your currency isnt worth very much... what's it called?
[07:33] <tsmithe> and 265 seems reasonable
[07:33] <jenda> Czech Crown.
[07:33] <jenda> or Koruna
[07:33] <tsmithe> kroene?
[07:33] <jenda> Czech Koruna , that is.
[07:33] <tsmithe> ah
[07:33] <tsmithe> i guessed
[07:33] <jenda> not really ;)
[07:34] <jenda> that's sweden.
[07:34] <jenda> I think.
[07:34] <tsmithe> something like that
[07:34] <jenda> hehe 
[07:34] <tsmithe>  i wonder what that actually means in japanese
[07:35] <jenda> tsu
[07:35] <jenda> i think it's some sort of word-ending.
[07:35] <tsmithe> suffix?
[07:35] <jenda> s'wat I meant ;)
[07:35] <jenda> maybe.
[07:36] <jenda> dunno if they really have suffixes. Not everything that's at the end of a word is a suffix.
[07:36] <tsmithe> meh
[07:36] <tsmithe> i know no japanese
[07:37] <jenda> BTW, our currency is actually quite high now.
[07:37] <tsmithe> really?
[07:37] <jenda> Don't forget the actual number doesn't matter - what matters is how it changes.
[07:38] <jenda> 1 is 42. It used to be around 55
[07:38] <jenda> and with the US dollar, ten years ago, our currency was worth HALF what it's now (22 CZK per USD)
[07:38] <tsmithe> the USD is sehr variable
[07:39] <tsmithe> and if you dont have any lower denomination (like we have pence), then having 1CZK=2p seems quite reasonable to me
[07:39] <jenda> again - compared to our currencies.
[07:39] <jenda> for example, compared to the Canadian dollar, it has barely changed.
[07:39] <jenda> we actually do have a lower denomination, the haler.
[07:40] <tsmithe> oh
[07:40] <jenda> But we only have 50h pieces valid now.
[07:40] <jenda> so 1 pence ;)
[07:40] <jenda> they took the 20 and 10 h pieces out of circuit some 3 years ago...
[07:41] <jenda> and we even had 5, 2 and 1h pieces before the revolution in 1993
[07:41] <tsmithe> how is the czech repulic then these days?
[07:41] <jenda> well, the politics suck, but the very fact that we can complain puts us on EU level :)
[07:41] <jenda> the bad times are officially over.
[07:42] <jenda> (since 1993)
[07:42] <jenda> or... 1989
[07:42] <tsmithe> how bad were the bad times?
[07:42] <jenda> very
[07:42] <tsmithe> compared to uk standards
[07:42] <jenda> You must know something about communism ;)
[07:42] <tsmithe> i do
[07:42] <tsmithe> how bad compared to hungary now then?
[07:42] <jenda> Now I was 2 years old in 1989
[07:42] <jenda> same
[07:43] <jenda> or...
[07:43] <tsmithe> so bad compared to hungary now... that must've been bad...
[07:43] <jenda> err...
[07:43] <jenda> same as hungary then
[07:43] <jenda> and a lot worse than hungary now.
[07:43] <jenda> however, now we are a bit better of than hungary.
[07:43] <jenda> a lot better of, really.
[07:44] <tsmithe> yeah.. i went to budapest once. it was nice
[07:44] <jenda> But the communist regime simply destroyed the country.
[07:44] <jenda> oh, we had nice cities even during communism ;)
[07:44] <jenda> that's not the point :)
[07:44] <tsmithe> oh
[07:45] <tsmithe> why does communism always have to be rubbish?
[07:45] <jenda> the point is that if you were an educated person, you either played their way, or were imprisoned.
[07:45] <jenda> well.. theoretically, no.
[07:45] <jenda> Comunism is hard-to-implement social construction, where people don't own anything and work for the good of the community.
[07:46] <tsmithe> i would've been imprisoned
[07:46] <Klaidas> sounds like linux ;)
[07:46] <jenda> However, the Communism spread by the Soviet Union had nothing to do with this vision - it was a dictatorship that abused the above ideology to keep a populace in check.
[07:46] <jenda> Klaidas: it does, yes :)
[07:47] <jenda> but we aren't easy to manipulate.
[07:47] <tsmithe> jenda, i know about stalinism ;)
[07:47] <tsmithe> and it only seems to work in cyberspace... communism that is
[07:47] <jenda> And, BTW, this form of communism is still in power in China and Cuba.
[07:47] <tsmithe> hmm... i think china is easing off though
[07:47] <jenda> And similarly to the prestroika, China is now trying to ...
[07:48] <jenda> well...
[07:48] <tsmithe> dunno bout cuba
[07:48] <tsmithe> trying to?
[07:48] <jenda> the thing is...
[07:48] <tsmithe> yes?
[07:48] <jenda> they have no intention of releasing the power this ideologic regime gives them,
[07:48] <jenda> but it's obvious that it doesn't work financially.
[07:48] <tsmithe> no... rather like Ingsoc
[07:48] <tsmithe> and like North Korea
[07:48] <jenda> you _need_ middle class, businessmen and the like to have an economy.
[07:49] <tsmithe> but it can be abused!
[07:49] <tsmithe> say, the trois etats, or the feudal system
[07:49] <jenda> so just like the USSR during the famous perestroika, they are easing off on the economic side
[07:49] <jenda> but nowhere near easing off on the political side.
[07:49] <tsmithe> no
[07:50] <jenda> what are Ingsoc and trois etats?
[07:50] <tsmithe> read 1984 by Orwell
[07:50] <tsmithe> you'll love it
[07:50] <jenda> I know it, although I haven't read the whole thing.
[07:50] <tsmithe> and les trois etats was how France was before their revolution
[07:50] <jenda> ok
[07:51] <tsmithe> the ending of 1984 almost persuaded me the Party was good... it's sooo subversive. i can see how strong Winston fell so easily
[07:51] <tsmithe> i'm about to write an essay on
[07:51] <tsmithe> it
[07:51] <jenda> hehe :)
[07:51] <tsmithe> you have no idea how many essays orwell wrote
[07:51] <tsmithe> i mean, i went to the library, to look for the book, and its about 1.5k pages long!
[07:51] <jenda> orwell's musings are very interesting in their essence, because he came up with all that theoretically.
[07:52] <jenda> without actually knowing anything about what was going to happen in half of the known world.
[07:52] <tsmithe> yeah... i know
[07:53] <tsmithe> although it planted the weird idea in my mind that capitalism is the only political system that will ever work, even if it is terrifically unfair
[07:53] <tsmithe> but i still like socialism though...
[07:53] <jenda> mind - 1984 came out 1949, one year after communism spread to Czechoslovakia
[07:53] <jenda> socialism has worked on a very small sample...
[07:53] <jenda> you might want to read Leon Uris' Exodus.
[07:54] <tsmithe> i will ;)
[07:54] <jenda> it's a very strong read.
[07:54] <tsmithe> and i'm going to venezuela, remember ;)
[07:54] <tsmithe> "strong"?
[07:54] <jenda> It's about immigrants to israel after WWII
[07:54] <jenda> strong.
[07:54] <jenda> My best friend cried when she read it ;)
[07:54] <tsmithe> ah, emotionally
[07:55] <tsmithe> rather than linguistically or politically
[07:55] <jenda> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_%28novel%29
[07:55] <jenda> yes
[07:55] <tsmithe> i bet they don't have it at school
[07:56] <jenda> I don't know what your current views on _that_ subject are, but do take into consideration that Leon Uris is/was Jewish.
[07:56] <jenda> So it's definitely not unbiased :)
[07:56] <jenda> Which doesn't mean it's not truthful.
[07:56] <tsmithe> i have few views on the subject, as i know nothing of it
[07:56] <jenda> keep it in mind more so.
[07:58] <tsmithe> i think orwell is my current favourite author... it's weird how his style is very fluid, but incredibly powerful
[07:59] <tsmithe> damn. i promised myself i'd re-read 1984 today...
[07:59] <tsmithe> objectively
[07:59] <jenda> hehe
[07:59] <jenda> I read animal farm.
[07:59] <jenda> also a nice illustration :)
[07:59] <tsmithe> i didnt. i hate it
[07:59] <tsmithe> i was in it - i'm sure i said
[07:59] <jenda> I think you'll like Exodus, if you like Orwell.
[07:59] <jenda> no, I don't think you did.
[08:00] <jenda> what do you mean by 'was in it'?
[08:00] <tsmithe> oh... well it was the school play a couple of years back
[08:00] <tsmithe> i was a pig and a farmer
[08:00] <jenda> I see :)
[08:00] <jenda> I wonder if the transcript carried the message...
[08:00] <tsmithe> it did
[08:01] <tsmithe> all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
[08:01] <tsmithe> and how it will always be so
[08:01] <tsmithe> dont you think?
[08:03] <jenda> I don't know - I'd have to see it :)
[08:04] <tsmithe> well... you've seen communism
[08:04] <tsmithe> and how more equal animals rise from it
[08:04] <jenda> hehe
[08:06] <tsmithe> something that i find especially true here in the uk (but expect it to be less so in more eastern europe) is this:
[08:07] <jenda> I got more of the image how evil can be twisted and shown as good, and how easy it is to fall for it.
[08:07] <tsmithe> yes
[08:07] <tsmithe> and 1984 is good at that as well
[08:07] <tsmithe> ESPECIALLY THE EDNING!
[08:07] <tsmithe> anyway:
[08:07] <jenda> yes - I believe the message is very similar.
[08:08] <tsmithe> "Whitman [an American author]  was writing in a time of unexampled prosperity, but more than that, he was writing in a country where *freedom was something more than a word*".
[08:08] <tsmithe> this is about mid-nineteenth-century usa
[08:10] <jenda> interesting...
[08:10] <tsmithe> "The democracy, equality and comradeship that he is always talking about are not remote ideals, but something that existed in front of his eyes. In mid-nineteenth-century America men felt themselves free and equal, /were/ free and equal, so far as that is possible outside a society of pure communism. There was poverty and there were even class-distinctions, but except for the Negroes there was no permanently submerged class".
[08:11] <tsmithe> what i find quite disturbing however, is how orwell seems to regard the suppression of "the Negroes" as acceptable
[08:11] <jenda> I think that is still the case in most of the western world.
[08:11] <jenda> And saying rich people are more equal doesn't make sense.
[08:11] <tsmithe> when did anyone say that?
[08:11] <jenda> I assumed ;)
[08:11] <tsmithe> oh
[08:12] <jenda> I think Orwell accepted it because the society accepted it.
[08:12] <jenda> There were things then that seemed logical, and now seem unbelievable.
[08:12] <tsmithe> i guess... but he seems quite subjective about most other things
[08:12] <jenda> The reason is that those things aren't in the domain of logic - but in the domain of conscience.
[08:12] <jenda> ie. right and wrong
[08:12] <tsmithe> like how America grew not to be free and equal
[08:13] <jenda> you think it's not free and equal?
[08:13] <tsmithe> how is conscience not susceptible to subjectivity?
[08:13] <tsmithe> and orwell thought it grew not to be
[08:14] <jenda> consciense is very subjective.
[08:14] <jenda> entirely so.
[08:14] <jenda> hmm
[08:14] <tsmithe> "Luckily for his [Whitman]  beliefs, perhaps, he died too early to see the deterioration in American life that came with the rise of large-scale industry and the exploiting of cheap immigrant labour"
[08:14] <jenda> If ORwell is saying that society defines right and wrong, I disagree with him.
[08:14] <tsmithe> i dont think he is
[08:14] <jenda> kk
[08:15] <tsmithe> however, this next quote is also interesting
[08:16] <tsmithe> "Tropic of Cancer ends with an especially Whitmanesque passage, in which, after the lecheries, the swindles, the fights, the drinking bouts and the imbecilities, he simply sits down and watches the Seine flowing past, in a sort of mystical acceptance of the thing-as-it-is."
[08:17] <tsmithe> Tropic of Cancer is a book by the american novelist Henry Miller
[08:17] <jenda> k
[08:17] <jenda> hm
[08:18] <tsmithe> then this:
[08:18] <jenda> WOW
[08:18] <jenda> the marketing team mailing list got a non spam filtered message...
[08:18] <jenda> you don't need to quote it ;)
[08:19] <jenda> I'm here ironing my laundry... first time in months :) so I can't really read it now.
[08:19] <tsmithe> "To say 'I accept' in an age like our own is to say that you accept concentration-camps, rubber truncheons, Hitler, Stalin, bombs, aeroplanes, tinned foold ... ... and political murders"
[08:19] <tsmithe> ah well last one that was
[08:19] <jenda> indeed.
[08:19] <jenda> one must always question current trends.
[08:20] <jenda> just have a look at the racism.
[08:20] <tsmithe> i havent got the marketing team list non spam filtered spam message
[08:20] <jenda> it was natural at the time, because people weren't yet used to meeting other groups in peace...
[08:20] <jenda> tsmithe: I just let it through, it'll get there...
[08:20] <jenda> there it is.
[08:20] <tsmithe> ah
[08:21] <tsmithe> ah yes
[08:21] <tsmithe> did they not subscribe then?
[08:21] <jenda> nope
[08:22] <tsmithe> i dont think his points are well founded...
[08:22] <tsmithe> the users will just say, where's this and this app, why can't i hear this drm'd track. stuff
[08:22] <jenda> oh well...
[08:23] <jenda> he's trying ;)
[08:23] <tsmithe> i'm not going to reply on the list... most people will say the same thing
[08:24] <jenda> i won't
[08:25] <jenda> didn't pay enough attention.
[08:25] <jenda> ironing, remember? :)
[08:25] <tsmithe> yeah yeah
[08:25] <tsmithe> when i was on raf summer camp, we would be up till midnight ironing and up at six in the morning to continue
[08:25] <tsmithe> i slept almost solidly for four days after
[08:26] <jenda> well, with my speed, midnight doesn't sound too far :)
[08:26] <tsmithe> i hate chores
[08:27] <tsmithe> they're such chores
[08:27] <jenda> hehe 
[08:46] <poningru_> blargh?
[08:46] <poningru_> what are we doing?
[08:48] <tsmithe> you are writing the loco-press-release spec
[08:48] <tsmithe> :)
[08:49] <tsmithe> i am *very* lazy
[08:49] <tsmithe> and i need to think
[08:49] <poningru> hehe
[08:50] <tsmithe> mwahahahahah
[08:50] <tsmithe> and to write
[08:50] <tsmithe> but my teacher has the essay!
[08:50] <poningru> waah?
[08:51] <tsmithe> dont worry
[08:52] <poningru> ic...
[08:52] <poningru> :)
[08:57] <poningru> brb
[08:59] <tsmithe> ping jenda
[09:00] <jenda> pong
[09:03] <poningru> NOOOOOOOOOO
[09:03] <poningru> WTF
[09:03] <tsmithe> what???
[09:03] <poningru> A FRACKING TOUCH DOWN
[09:04] <poningru> err wrong channel
[09:04] <tsmithe> a what???
[09:04] <tsmithe> "touch down"?
[09:04] <poningru> sorry american football
[09:04] <tsmithe> is this in that stupid american sport
[09:04] <tsmithe> oh
[09:04] <tsmithe> the bastardised copy of rugby?
[09:05] <jenda> please be respectful.
[09:07] <tsmithe> sorry
[09:07] <tsmithe> :(
[09:08] <tsmithe> sorry poningru
[09:20] <jenda> hello Daylighter
[09:21] <Daylighter> hi jenda
[11:24] <jenda> popey: ping :)
[11:30] <popey> jenda pong
[11:32] <jenda> we were discussing that t-shirt of yours...
[11:32] <jenda> are they still up for sale?
[11:34] <popey> which T-Shirt?
[11:34] <jenda> http://gallery.popey.com/gallery/misc/DSC02692
[11:34] <popey> blimey
[11:34] <popey> I uploaded that pic about 2 mins ago
[11:35] <jenda> I know ;)
[11:35] <popey> hah
 jenda, alan is making a better picture for you to see the shirt better
[11:35] <popey> oh I am, am I
[11:35] <popey> ok
[11:35] <popey> or is that before I uploaded that one?
[11:36] <jenda> before.
[11:36] <jenda> that pic is just fine
[11:36] <popey> anyway, it's not me that got them made, it's Nik Bulter - LoudMouthMan on irc
[11:36] <jenda> I'm working on t-shirts myself, so I'm probing the market.
[11:36] <popey> they are really nice
[11:36] <popey> I have two :)
[11:36] <jenda> and if it's for a good cause, I don't want to make competition tough.
[11:38] <popey> I don't think Nik will mind either way to be honest - I don't think he anticipated them being as popular as they are/were
[11:38] <jenda> popey: any progress on your own merchandise producing plans?
[11:38] <popey> I know he makes a little on each one, but don't know how much
[11:38] <popey> enough to make it worth the aggro
[11:38] <popey> no jenda, I have been rather busy with screencasting
[11:39] <jenda> I see.
[11:39] <tsmithe> hi ho what's up?
[11:39] <popey> creating training stuff
[11:39] <popey> hello tsmithe
[11:39] <jenda> I personally take 10% of the posters and probably other things I make, so I think that's fair ;)
[11:39] <jenda> I think it's fair to take more, but I don't do it for the profit.
[11:41] <jenda> popey: that's nice - We just had a LoCo meeting, and one of the guys turned to me with a marketing suggestion... just that :)
[11:41] <jenda> popey: anyplace I can have a look at your work?
[11:43] <popey> http://quickones.org/
[11:43] <popey> they're all there
[11:43] <jenda> cool...
[11:43] <jenda> consider submitting to ubuntuvideo.com? :)
[11:43] <popey> I have
[11:44] <popey> http://www.ubuntuvideo.com/installing_updates_on_ubuntu see :)
[11:44] <popey> I'm writing up some how-tos for the wiki
[11:45] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeeting20061124 says the maintainer of ubuntuvideo is awol
[11:46] <jenda> cool.
[11:46] <jenda> nice work :)
[11:47] <popey> thanks
[11:47] <jenda> except, it's ooboontoo :)
[11:48] <popey> Pfft
[11:48] <popey> I refuse to rise to that
[11:48] <tsmithe> how'd you say it?
[11:48] <tsmithe> lol
[11:48] <popey> oo bun too
[11:48] <popey> click those links and you will hear me :)
[11:49] <popey> I just don't care how people pronounce it, same with guh-nome vs nome, or Lie-nucks or lin-ucks
[11:49] <popey> if you know what I am talking about and I know what you're talking about it's a non-issue
[11:49] <popey> IMO :)
[11:50] <tsmithe> i say oobuntoo when quick, ooboontoo when trying to get the point across
[11:50] <popey> I think newbies get put off when people correct them
[11:50] <popey> not that jenda or I are newbies :)
[11:50] <tsmithe> dont forget me!
[11:50] <jenda> hehe
[11:51] <tsmithe> who's the newbie?
[11:51] <jenda> popey: you're right. I'll keep it in mind.
[11:51] <jenda> it's a non-issue in my country - the correct pronounciations are the only natural ones :)
[11:51] <tsmithe> same for me
[11:52] <tsmithe> but depends on the location of the person for their accent
[11:56] <jenda> popey: do you allow overdubbers?
[11:56] <jenda> tsmithe: aren't you UK based?
[11:56] <tsmithe> jenda, yes: why?
[11:56] <tsmithe> oh...
[11:56] <tsmithe> i see
[11:57] <jenda> well... english allows several prononciations of each.
[11:57] <tsmithe> different parts of the uk have different accents
[11:57] <tsmithe> but most people conform to one
[11:57] <tsmithe> so each accent has a pronunciation of the word.
[11:57] <popey> jenda: "allow"?
[11:57] <jenda> popey: yeah... :)
[11:57] <popey> it's licencened under CC, do what the licence lets you :)
[11:57] <jenda> hehe ok :)