[12:14] <LaserJock> it'd be *nice* if you could replace that inital screen
[12:14] <nixternal> dude...search feature in khelpcenter is garbage
[12:14] <LaserJock> but I'm guessing that would take hacking khelpcenter
[12:14] <nixternal> LaserJock: the first screen you see upon opening khelpcenter? thats what you mean by the initial one?
[12:14] <LaserJock> yes
[12:14] <robotgeek> LaserJock: that would just be modifyinhg the .desktop file for the help icon
[12:14] <nixternal> that would be easy as well, but would be a hack to upstream stuff..have to pass that by Riddell first
[12:15] <LaserJock> so you can open khelpcenter to a particlar doc?
[12:15] <nixternal> ya, the .desktop file would pass 'khelpcenter /dir/of/documentation/*.html'
[12:15] <robotgeek> nixternal: is that not a simple as khelpcenter /path/to/file
[12:15] <nixternal> lol
[12:15] <LaserJock> ok, then that would be cool
[12:16] <nixternal> robotgeek: exactly
[12:16] <nixternal> that is a super easy deal
[12:16] <LaserJock> just have it open a wrapper HTML file that feeds into the TBH
[12:16] <nixternal> yup
[12:16] <LaserJock> there we go
[12:16] <nixternal> but, that will be up to Riddell to decide on im affriad..is that ok?
[12:16] <nixternal> i mean we can work on it, show it to him, and im sure he will say aya
[12:16] <nixternal> yay rather
[12:16] <LaserJock> sure
[12:17] <LaserJock> but I don't think it's a very big change considering what you guys already change
[12:17] <nixternal> so i think we should go ahead and chug away at the kdg, and then worry about that at the end
[12:17] <robotgeek> cool, all that is squared away then
[12:17] <nixternal> truthfully, it would be cool to have a help system that looks similar to our system settings layout
[12:17] <robotgeek> heh. 
[12:18] <LaserJock> well, I think this is an intermediate step
[12:18] <nixternal> which we could do with xml/html
[12:18] <LaserJock> it seems like both Gnome and KDE want to go to some sort of better help system
[12:18] <nixternal> almost LaserJock, now we have to decide on how the layout of the dg's are gonna be
[12:19] <nixternal> i like the layout mdke presented on the tbh spec
[12:19] <nixternal> but Riddell approved a different layout, which won't be hard to persuade the change
[12:19] <LaserJock> I think the key there was to make Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and the wiki consistent
[12:19] <nixternal> ya
[12:19] <nixternal> i don't like the wiki stuff all that much, but im sure it will grow on me
[12:20] <nixternal> the wiki makes it tough to work on the same thing from more than one person at a time
[12:20] <nixternal> i have to wait for you to make changes, so i can go in and make changes
[12:20] <robotgeek> nixternal: same problem as in svn too
[12:20] <nixternal> well, it is, but with emacs diff side-by-side it is a little easier
[12:20] <LaserJock> nixternal: you can always gobby it
[12:20] <nixternal> ooh
[12:21] <nixternal> gobby is a good idea as well
[12:21] <LaserJock> that's how we do the specs at UDS
[12:21] <nixternal> yup
[12:21] <LaserJock> just copy the wiki content into gobby, everybody hacks away, then when they're done copy it back into the wiki
[12:21] <nixternal> but then again...while we are hacking away at gobby, whats going to stop userjoe from coming in and changing what is on the wiki already?
[12:21] <nixternal> heck, that i don't care..i get emailed every change
[12:21] <nixternal> so i can watch that
[12:22] <LaserJock> well, people shouldn't be just hacking at our stuff
[12:22] <robotgeek> nixternal: that's when the ACL's come into play, i think. 
[12:22] <nixternal> although, i doubt robotgeek, jjesse, and myself will be hacking away at the same thing..im sure we will break it up anyways
[12:22] <robotgeek> yeah, we will have to split it up. 
[12:22] <LaserJock> ok
[12:22] <LaserJock> what's left on the agenda
[12:22] <nixternal> LaserJock: people are going to hack at our stuff regardless..they tried adding junk to the release notes during dapper and edgy
[12:23] <robotgeek> LaserJock: we have not decided what docs to ship by default yet, have we
[12:23] <LaserJock> nixternal: those really should be locked down when it gets close to time
[12:23] <nixternal> true
[12:23] <robotgeek> we can maybe get a default 404 page while linking to say the packaging guide
[12:23] <LaserJock> robotgeek: I really think it's cool to ship everything
[12:24] <robotgeek> LaserJock: i dont have a problem with that, really. if we dont care about space :)
[12:24] <LaserJock> there was even an review of Ubuntu that mentioned how it was cool that the packaging guide was included
[12:24] <LaserJock> my issue is more with how it will fit in with the topic based help
[12:24] <nixternal> ya, have fun with that one ;)
[12:24] <LaserJock> the server guide seems like it would fit in well
[12:25] <LaserJock> I doubt the packaging guide will, so I imagine it will remain the way it is
[12:25] <robotgeek> LaserJock: we just link to it, and its up to you if you want ot TBH it, or not
[12:25] <nixternal> why is it necessary to ship the server guide with a desktop system?
[12:25] <LaserJock> because the line between a server and desktop system can be pretty fuzzy
[12:25] <nixternal> when you think linux server, it is black and white ;)
[12:26] <robotgeek> nixternal: not really, my machine is a desktop, but is a server on the net. 
[12:26] <nixternal> if client server is fuzzy, then they should stick to their iPoops
[12:26] <nixternal> ;)
[12:26] <LaserJock> we are getting to an age when people are starting to use more services
[12:27] <nixternal> ok, the server guide can stay..but for server installs, i think it would be neat to have the server guide available via lynx (which would have to go into main if it isn't already), or create an info page for it
[12:27] <LaserJock> yep
[12:27] <LaserJock> I agree
[12:27] <nixternal> info server
[12:27] <nixternal> that would be cool..as you can do all of the linking and everything
[12:27] <nixternal> and i believe we can export xml to the type of doc it is
[12:27] <LaserJock> I also think we should spiff out the HTML
[12:28] <LaserJock> I find help.ubuntu.com to be pretty blah
[12:28] <nixternal> ya it is
[12:28] <nixternal> but i think that is all changing someday though..as i keep hearing about a new website
[12:28] <robotgeek> okay, we can move to the next one? (its been 2:30 hours already!)
[12:28] <nixternal> what is the next one?
[12:29] <nixternal> ubuntu training program?
[12:29] <LaserJock> and then screencast I guess and we're done
[12:29] <LaserJock> well, I'm not really sure what they want from use as far as the training program
[12:29] <nixternal> ahhhhhhh
[12:29] <nixternal> i have contacted the guy who sent the ubuntu training info out already
[12:30] <nixternal> i don't see it being an issue for us helping out with it, but we need to stick to an agenda with it
[12:30] <nixternal> we can't continue being lose..there are only 3 of us doing a meeting right now
[12:30] <robotgeek> yeah, we can maybe continue it further on the list, with regard to the details of the training program/ next meeting
[12:31] <nixternal> the training material is a potential high profile project..especially if it is going into LPIC
[12:31] <nixternal> if i am correct, the documentation will be in manual forms which will more than likely be sold
[12:32] <nixternal> that will be a lot of work as well
[12:32] <LaserJock> ok, so what is the intended role of the doc team here?
[12:32] <LaserJock> do they want use to keep training in mind so the can grab stuff from us?
[12:33] <LaserJock> s/use/us/
[12:33] <LaserJock> s/the/they/
[12:33] <nixternal> no, it would be totally seperate
[12:33] <robotgeek> brb
[12:33] <LaserJock> ok, so then what's the point for us?
[12:33] <nixternal> i doubt it would be on a published svn, aka the doc teams..but im not 100% sure on that either, i am only specualting as i am familiar with LPIC documentation/manuals
[12:34] <nixternal> they would probably do it like the guys did when they did the book
[12:34] <LaserJock> ok, but I'm still not see what they want
[12:34] <nixternal> that stuff wasn't public during the creation im sure...at least i never heard of it or seen it until it was released
[12:34] <LaserJock> are they wanting doc team people to join them?
[12:34] <nixternal> LaserJock: they want to know if we want to help them write the documentation/training manuals
[12:35] <nixternal> yes LaserJock 
[12:35] <LaserJock> k
[12:35] <LaserJock> kinda interesting since we don't seem to have the resources to do our own docs
[12:35] <nixternal> probably need to wait for more info on it..my reply said i was open to help, but the reply back was minimal with info
[12:36] <nixternal> heh, that is very true
[12:36] <LaserJock> I was rather hoping they could help us ;-)
[12:36] <nixternal> no doubt
[12:36] <LaserJock> ok, so not a lot there
[12:36] <LaserJock> moving on?
[12:37] <nixternal> use of screencasts...why duplicate work that is already out there?
[12:37] <robotgeek> back, i guess there is not much we can do ATM
[12:37] <robotgeek> screencasts, somerville32 
[12:39] <somerville32> Are you guys done discussing screencasts and ready for me?
[12:39] <robotgeek> somerville32: no, we want us to tell what you want to do :)
[12:40] <somerville32> lol
[12:40] <robotgeek> damn, /me is tired. 
[12:40] <nixternal> hehe
[12:41] <LaserJock> somebody talk before we all fall over
[12:41] <LaserJock> screencast are cool, we should have some
[12:41] <somerville32> lol
[12:41] <LaserJock> done
[12:41] <robotgeek> anyways, they can't be shipped with default distro (cause cd does not have that much space). issues with flash/your favourite container
[12:42] <robotgeek> not being available for all distros, etc. 
[12:42] <LaserJock> I think help.ubuntu.com would be a great place to put then
[12:42] <LaserJock> *them
[12:42] <nixternal> ubuntuvideo.com
[12:42] <robotgeek> who runs ubuntuvideo?
[12:42] <nixternal> john little
[12:42] <Burgwork> who si currently awol
[12:43] <nixternal> if h.u.c is to host them, we would have to create a styling guide for them
[12:43] <LaserJock> I think we could probably make some of  our own
[12:43] <LaserJock> but also take contributions
[12:44] <LaserJock> ubuntuvideo.com seems more generic then what we'd want
[12:44] <nixternal> we need to make it known though that they need to use default settings when doing them
[12:45] <LaserJock> anyway...
[12:45] <LaserJock> I don't see any reason why we couldn't put screencasts on help.u.c
[12:46] <somerville32> :] 
[12:47] <LaserJock> ok, what about Xubuntu?
[12:48] <nixternal> don't know anything much about it..but i gotta run
[12:48] <nixternal> i will bbl
[12:48] <LaserJock> cya
[12:48] <somerville32> : O
[12:48] <robotgeek> later nixternal 
[12:48] <LaserJock> anybody know about this item?
[12:48] <LaserJock> ok, shoot
[12:49] <somerville32> The documentation efforts for Xubuntu is pretty poor and I'd like to discuss how we can organize a concentrated effort into improving the situation.
[12:50] <robotgeek> we need people to come forward and take responsibility towards xubuntu-docs, really
[12:51] <somerville32> Well, there was a meeting on January 17th
[12:51] <somerville32> "documenting efforts have started in the ubuntu-doc team, one of the contact persons is John Levin"
[12:51] <robotgeek> we are more than willing to help people to go thru our workflow and technical details, but key point being bodies 
[12:52] <robotgeek> what is John Levin's irc nick, i dont know this person otherwise :)
[12:53] <robotgeek> Luzi Thoeny did the desktop guide for xubuntu, i am not sure for edgy. 
[12:54] <somerville32> It looks like it was almost just copied over
[12:54] <somerville32> Because there is stuff out of date in the Edgy guide
[12:55] <robotgeek> to be honest, i havent kept up with edgy documentation effort, so i don't know. 
[12:55] <somerville32> Whould it be useful to create an lp team xubuntu-doc and then make it a member of ubuntu-doc and then organize interested individuals from there?
[12:55] <LaserJock> doubtful
[12:56] <somerville32> edubuntu did it
[12:56] <LaserJock> what would be useful is to post on the xubuntu mailing lists and in the IRC channels
[12:56] <LaserJock> somerville32: and it hasn't helped edubuntu out
[12:57] <somerville32> So, does ubuntu-docs support Xubuntu?
[12:57] <LaserJock> how do you mean?
[12:57] <somerville32> Are you guys responsible for Xubuntu documentation?
[12:58] <LaserJock> well, that's a kinda tough question
[12:58] <LaserJock> we do have Xubuntu documentation in the repo
[12:58] <LaserJock> and I believe xubuntu-docs were built from that
[12:59] <LaserJock> but I haven't seen much of any activity on the docs for a while
[12:59] <LaserJock> and I'm not sure that there is anybody from Xubuntu that is a doc team member
[12:59] <LaserJock> we certainly welcome anybody
[12:59] <robotgeek> Tue, 12 Sep 2006 was the last commit there, i think. 
[12:59] <somerville32> But Xubuntu is just Ubuntu w/ Xfce4
[01:00] <somerville32> Ubuntu-docs is for... documenting Ubuntu, right?
[01:00] <LaserJock> the LP team?
[01:00] <somerville32> So "Xubuntu" falls under the responsability of the ubuntu-docs team, right?
[01:00] <somerville32> I understand that you need bodies to do work
[01:01] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu Documentation Team tries to include all projects that want to
[01:01] <somerville32> But it just seems to me that Xubuntu is off the radar
[01:01] <somerville32> and hence efforts aren't being devoted to it
[01:01] <LaserJock> exactly
[01:01] <robotgeek> somerville32: yes, we just dont have any people working on it
[01:01] <LaserJock> so people are welcome to work on it
[01:02] <robotgeek> that means you, somerville32 :)
[01:02] <somerville32> You guys encourage people to work on specific documentation tasks, right?
[01:02] <LaserJock> no
[01:02] <LaserJock> people work on what they want
[01:02] <somerville32> Well, how do you organize efforts?
[01:02] <LaserJock> people work on what they want
[01:02] <somerville32> Do you have a list of things that need to be worked on?
[01:03] <LaserJock> we try to dicuss and organize things so that other people can see what we're doing
[01:03] <LaserJock> not exactly, but kinda
[01:03] <somerville32> I'm just saying, if you guys included xubuntu stuff in your discussion
[01:03] <LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
[01:03] <somerville32> People might say "Hey, I can work on this Xubuntu related thinger"
[01:03] <LaserJock> if there were people to include then yes
[01:04] <LaserJock> if people show up that are interested in Xubuntu then they are welcome to discuss it
[01:04] <somerville32> Alrighty, lol
[01:04] <LaserJock> but it's a bit hard to discuss something that nobody is working on
[01:04] <somerville32> Ok, I'm interested in working on Xubuntu documentation.
[01:04] <LaserJock> awesome
[01:04] <somerville32> Can I join the doc team?
[01:04] <LaserJock> sure
[01:05] <LaserJock> not like immediatly
[01:05] <LaserJock> but you can certainly work towards that
[01:05] <somerville32> Well, I've already done a lot of work on the wiki.
[01:05] <LaserJock> generally we want you to be an Ubuntu Memeber and also send in some patches to the doc team
[01:05] <somerville32> Ah, ok.
[01:06] <robotgeek> but generally, that is not a oainful process 
[01:06] <robotgeek> painful, err
[01:07] <robotgeek> okay, does that finish off all topics?
[01:07] <somerville32> Well...
[01:07] <somerville32> I just want to make sure that Xubuntu will have a presence.
[01:07] <somerville32> I know you said that it requires people being interested and working on that stuff
[01:07] <LaserJock> then somebody needs to make it, and that somebody sounds like you
[01:07] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:08] <somerville32> I'm having a hard time articulating what I mean
[01:08] <LaserJock> you want us to pay attention to Xubuntu, right?
[01:08] <somerville32> Right.
[01:09] <LaserJock> I'm just saying that's pretty hard to do if we don't use it and don't have a particular interest there
[01:09] <LaserJock> so while we welcome any contribution and thing Xubuntu is great
[01:09] <LaserJock> I doubt if many of use will be writing Xubuntu docs :-)
[01:09] <LaserJock> *us
[01:10] <robotgeek> heh, i dont use xubuntu, so i dont write xubuntu or ubuntu docs
[01:10] <LaserJock> so if you could help organize some people and maybe send an email of what you want to do with Xubuntu docs then I think you could get something going
[01:11] <LaserJock> somerville32: is there something in particulra that the doc team could do to help you?
[01:12] <somerville32> It just seems like you're asking me to organize the documentation effort for Xubuntu when I have no idea how things work.
[01:13] <LaserJock> hehe
[01:13] <robotgeek> yeah, it usually works like that. though we can help you with the details/ other difficulties 
[01:14] <LaserJock> ok, then maybe you should start working with the Xubuntu docs for a little bit to get the swing of things
[01:14] <somerville32> It would be nice if you could see if there are people interested in working on Xubuntu documentation.
[01:15] <LaserJock> well, the thing is that you are probably closer to Xubuntu then we are
[01:15] <robotgeek> somerville32: it usually does not work that way, jjesse and I were alone for the dapper release. nixternal joined us in edgy ( i kinda dropped out)
[01:15] <robotgeek> someone has to pick up the ball, and others will join you
[01:15] <somerville32> What about John Levin?
[01:16] <somerville32> Do you know anything about him?
[01:16] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JohnLevin is his wiki page, maybe contact him and see if he is interested?
[01:17] <robotgeek> though i doubt it, his wiki page is pretty old
[01:18] <LaserJock> somerville32: ok, here's what I suggest, email the doc team and xubuntu mailing lists saying you are interested in Xubuntu documentation and seeing if anybody else is interested
[01:18] <somerville32> Perfect.
[01:18] <somerville32> :)
[01:19] <LaserJock> if you get some "bites" then we can discuss further about how to proceed
[01:19] <somerville32> We have a meeting tomorrow
[01:19] <somerville32> So we can discuss it
[01:19] <somerville32> And I'll get back to you guys after we decide what to do
[01:19] <LaserJock> ok, excellent
[01:20] <robotgeek> awesome
[01:20] <somerville32> :)
[01:20] <robotgeek> okay, i guess that is it for me!
[01:21] <robotgeek> this has got to be the longest meeting i've been in!

[01:22] <robotgeek> i will make up a summary and mail the group
[01:34] <LaserJock> good luck
[01:34] <poningru> hehe
[06:58] <somerville32> Hey Everyone
[06:58] <TheSheep> Hello
[06:59] <somerville32> Do we want to use gobby too or just IRC fine for everyone?
[06:59] <Jmak> Hello
[07:00] <Jmak> irc fine
[07:00] <vinze> IRC here too
[07:01] <somerville32> I'm ready to start. Is everyone else ready to start?
[07:01] <vinze> Yup
[07:02] <somerville32> So, who is all here for the Xubuntu meeting?
[07:02] <vinze> Me
[07:02] <Jmak> me
[07:02] <TheSheep> moi
[07:02] <vinze> Wow... So many :P
[07:03] <vinze> Are we going to treat all items in their order on the Wiki?
[07:03] <kalikiana> hello at all :)
[07:03] <Solol> me too, though i won't have muxh to say
[07:03] <somerville32> We can float around if there is something that a majority of us feel need to be discussed.
[07:04] <vinze> Right...
[07:04] <vinze> So, what should we handle first?
[07:04] <Jmak> artworks
[07:04] <vinze> Fine with me
[07:04] <earobinson> yup
[07:05] <vinze> Any idea what the sister projects are going to do (like the glossy for edgy)?
[07:05] <Jmak> For feisty i want to modify the color scheme of the graphics
[07:06] <TheSheep> green? :)
[07:06] <vinze> Hmm... What's the motivation?
[07:06] <vinze> Yuk :(
[07:06] <vinze> :P
[07:06] <kalikiana> green is nice
[07:06] <somerville32> Should we ask Mark Shuttleworth to give us direction since he is giving direction to Ubuntu and Kubuntu?
[07:06] <Jmak> No, it would remain blue but more saturated
[07:06] <cellofellow> Jmak: then what? Become Kubuntu's Dapper colors?
[07:06] <TheSheep> Jmak: something like this? http://welcome.sheep.art.pl/static/xubuntu_logo.png
[07:07] <vinze> Too plain I think
[07:07] <Jmak> Mark said number of times that he doesnt want to interfere
[07:07] <vinze> The different colours should be more contrasting IMHO
[07:07] <cello_rasp> pale tango blue is in keeping with xfce
[07:07] <Jmak> Look at these
[07:07] <Jmak>                                           http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4062/screenshot1od7.png    http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/1783/screenshot2xt6.png    http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1802/screenshoteyett8.png       
[07:08] <TheSheep> cello_rasp: the current xubuntu logo is more purplish than the tango color scheme
[07:08] <Jmak> The pale is getting boring
[07:09] <TheSheep> Jmak: woudn't such a saturated background be tiring for the eyes?
[07:09] <vinze> I like the second one, the third is still loading
[07:09] <vinze> Yeah I agree on that TheSheep 
[07:09] <cello_rasp> screenshoteyett8.png's panels are too garish and the icons are too gnome-icon-like, but the first 2 are going in the right direction.
[07:09] <cellofellow> Jmak: I like the last one. The first one looks too much lik Kubuntu Dapper and the second one doesn't look Ubuntu enough.
[07:10] <cellofellow> At least the wallpapers
[07:10] <Jmak> the icons are later
[07:10] <TheSheep> how about a light blue?
[07:10] <somerville32> Can I interupt?
[07:10] <vinze> I'd go for darker
[07:10] <vinze> Bring it on Cody
[07:10] <Jmak> Darker colors always better for the eye
[07:11] <vinze> And less disturbing, and less general
[07:11] <kalikiana> the first one a bit darker  :)
[07:11] <somerville32> Determining the actual direction of art for Feisty is out of the scope of this meeting. There is a lot of the agenda and so I think it might be more effective to see who is interested in working on the artwork, see who wants to lead the artwork effort, arrange a follow-up meeting, and hear from people what they think the direction should be.
[07:12] <cello_rasp> Yes, a forums thread might be best.
[07:12] <vinze> Good point, so who is interested to work on the artwork?
[07:12] <Jmak> I can do that
[07:12] <TheSheep> me too
[07:12] <vinze> Great, that's two already
[07:13] <vinze> Any more?
[07:13] <Jmak> Faisty should be super-duper in terms of visuals
[07:13] <cellofellow> Next on Agenda: Xubuntu feisty dev-roadmap
[07:14] <vinze> If not, I think Jmak and TheSheep, you can have your hands on it together and arrange user feedback
[07:14] <somerville32> Just a sec, cellofellow
[07:14] <cellofellow> ok, :)
[07:14] <Jmak> Therer still more stuff here to discuss
[07:14] <earobinson> did we miss the website?
[07:14] <vinze> Message Cody, Adam or me so the website can have a link to a forum topic or something where you ask for user input
[07:14] <Jmak> The icons
[07:15] <Jmak> What icons shoudl we use tango or something else
[07:15] <somerville32> JMak: Are you interested in heading the artwork efforts?
[07:15] <Jmak> ok
[07:15] <vinze> I think when you're with two there's no real need for an official coordinator
[07:15] <cellofellow> I like tango
[07:16] <somerville32> vinze: Well, we'd like to get more people involved of course :] 
[07:16] <TheSheep> in terms of completeness, there is practically only a choice of tango or gnome
[07:16] <Jmak> I think the artworks should be coordinated to prevent endig up with patchworks
[07:16] <vinze> Sure, but as apparently there are two as of yet...
[07:16] <vinze> Ah, that's true
[07:17] <Jmak> Iwould like the gray tango but not theblue one
[07:17] <cello_rasp> It should look good on white, as well
[07:17] <vinze> Blue might pose a problem because of the colour scheme, all blue might be too overwhelming IMHO
[07:17] <TheSheep> Jmak: or we could use something contrasting with the general theme, so that it's not boring
[07:17] <kalikiana> Let us stay with Tango as it is
[07:18] <cellofellow> which is used now?
[07:18] <TheSheep> cello_rasp: blue tango
[07:18] <TheSheep> sry
[07:18] <Jmak> The mubuntu peopel will use the blach tango
[07:18] <TheSheep> cellofellow: blue tango
[07:18] <cellofellow> :)
[07:19] <kalikiana> blue tango fits blue xubuntu :)
[07:19] <Czubek> Jmak: mubuntu?
[07:19] <earobinson> i with kalikiana
[07:19] <Jmak> Yes, a new multimedia flavor
[07:19] <cello_rasp> i think blue tango is perfect at the moment but a slight tweak to the location icons, to bring it into line with a future identity, is not a bad idea.
[07:20] <Jmak> It will be super cool, all black
[07:20] <kalikiana> cello_rasp: locations?
[07:20] <cellofellow> places you meen?
[07:20] <cello_rasp> Jmak: ubuntu-studio?
[07:20] <cello_rasp> places, sorry.
[07:20] <TheSheep> pink :D
[07:20] <Jmak> right ubuntu-studio
[07:20] <vinze> http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_forks
[07:21] <somerville32> Alrighty.
[07:21] <somerville32> Lets review.
[07:21] <somerville32> 1. JMak is going to be our "artist-in-chief" and will lead our artwork efforts.
[07:21] <somerville32> 2. JMak and TheSheep are both interested on working on artwork
[07:21] <somerville32> 3. We have a good idea of what we want to do with artwork for Feisty.
[07:22] <vinze> OK... Next item?
[07:22] <somerville32> Now, do you guys want to pick a tenative date for a get together to further discuss artwork stuff or should we just move on for now?
[07:22] <cellofellow> Next on Agenda: Xubuntu feisty dev-roadmap
[07:22] <cellofellow> good idea
[07:23] <somerville32> Lets discuss the website first since the people are here to discuss it
[07:23] <Jmak> For the time being we can discuss art releted stuff on the mailing list
[07:23] <somerville32> I know some of the dev team who said they'd be here aren't here yet so it wouldn't be good to discuss the dev-roadmap without them.
[07:23] <cellofellow> ok thn
[07:23] <vinze> Let's move on to the website
[07:23] <somerville32> Can everyone take a peak at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Agenda/2006-11-25 ?
[07:24] <_MMA_> vinze: Thank goodness Ubuntu Studio isnt on your link. ;)
[07:24] <vinze> OK
[07:24] <vinze> Hehe
[07:24] <vinze> I liked Subuntu
[07:24] <somerville32> I've already archived today's Agenda and also elaborated on some stuff.
[07:25] <somerville32> I've also put a brain dump on the agenda for the website.
[07:25] <vinze> We should also discuss with what and how often we plan to update it
[07:25] <cellofellow> ok. openning said website
[07:25] <vinze> The main Ubuntu website AFAIK isn't updated too regularly
[07:26] <earobinson> nope they keep it the same... its good cuz its always a familiar place to go to
[07:27] <vinze> OK... So everything that stays the same should be of high quality
[07:27] <somerville32> I agree.
[07:27] <cellofellow> somerville32: you notice it says Zooboontoo for pronunciation on the website.
[07:27] <vinze> Perhaps we can collaborate on something on the wiki and when it's finished put it on the main website
[07:27] <vinze> Yeah that's true AFAIK
[07:28] <vinze> Should we take it off?
[07:28] <vinze> Because I'm not 100% sure
[07:29] <somerville32> I don't think it really matters.
[07:29] <somerville32> People will pronounce it how they like
[07:29] <somerville32> haha
[07:29] <vinze> So... Take it off?
[07:29] <earobinson> ya
[07:29] <cellofellow> should the website look like ubuntu.com or kubuntu.org? or like it is but better?
[07:29] <TheSheep> cellofellow: you mean layout?
[07:29] <cellofellow> yeah
[07:29] <earobinson> i figure it should be based off them as it is now, so its the same feel just different content
[07:30] <somerville32> I'd like to propose the following mandate for the website:
[07:30] <somerville32> The Xubuntu website is an excellent tool for propagating information to the community and is generally the first impression made on end-users. Hence, The Xubuntu Website must maintain a professional image, be informative, useful, and personify the personality of the Xubuntu distribution and Xubuntu community.
[07:30] <vinze> Isn't that all quite logical?
[07:31] <cellofellow> Yeah, at current the Xubuntu website is just short of professional and makes Xubuntu seem like a side project.
[07:31] <TheSheep> vinze: note what's *not* mentioned :)
[07:31] <Czubek> ubuntu.com layout is better IOM.
[07:31] <vinze> Yeah it could be a bit more proffessional
[07:31] <vinze> I prefer a fluid layout
[07:31] <kalikiana> imho xubuntu.org is nice - but its content is weak
[07:31] <Czubek> kalikiana: true.
[07:32] <TheSheep> Czubek: isn't it the same, only with smaller fonts?
[07:32] <vinze> A fluid layout that also looks fluid, I mean :P
[07:32] <somerville32> Should we add tabs?
[07:32] <somerville32> Like, at the top like the other websites do?
[07:32] <TheSheep> somerville32: plese no
[07:32] <vinze> What content should there be at the website?
[07:32] <cellofellow> Point of Inquery: Does it use a CMS system of some type?
[07:32] <earobinson> tabs are really good imo
[07:32] <vinze> And what should be in the tabs?
[07:32] <somerville32> cellowfellow: CMS - Drupal
[07:32] <vinze> Drupal
[07:32] <TheSheep> cellofellow: drupal
[07:32] <TheSheep> lol
[07:32] <Czubek> TheSheep: maybe, small difference but i like it more ;)
[07:33] <vinze> What should be in the tabs?
[07:33] <TheSheep> personally I like the style that all the gnome.org and related pages have
[07:33] <TheSheep> looks *very* proffessional
[07:33] <cellofellow> Tabs it needs if it's going to hold other sections.
[07:33] <earobinson> what not have the same tab links as the ubuntu website?
[07:33] <earobinson> like wiki and such
[07:33] <kalikiana> just stay with the links at the right side
[07:34] <cellofellow> kubuntu has them too. I think they help stay organized.
[07:34] <TheSheep> provided they will be the same and in the same order
[07:34] <vinze> Hmm.. Yeah, then we could also drop the links at the right I think
[07:34] <vinze> And merge multiple pages
[07:34] <somerville32> We still need the right links
[07:34] <cellofellow> ubuntu and kubuntu both have sidebars.
[07:35] <kalikiana> so we'll have xubuntu.org design with kubuntu tabs?
[07:35] <TheSheep> I think the huge logo is not needed on every page -- just a splash on the first page, and small logo somewhere at the top on the rest, just as a reminder
[07:35] <vinze> I think a header helps to give a site a profile
[07:35] <vinze> And splashes are annoying
[07:35] <TheSheep> and the blue 'margins' make some trouble
[07:36] <cellofellow> margins make pages look more consisten across screensizes.
[07:36] <kalikiana> just the logo in small at the top, but no splash, so you can go to the front page from anywhere
[07:36] <TheSheep> I mean, the site looks 'closed'
[07:36] <vinze> How about this for tabs: Xubuntu | Community (or Get Involved?) | Get Xubuntu | Support
[07:36] <kalikiana> the front page should be a news page
[07:36] <TheSheep> cellofellow: provided the content is fixed-width, which is not the case
[07:36] <somerville32> + Wiki
[07:37] <kalikiana> vinze: + downloads
[07:37] <cellofellow> TheSheep: it's not? well, then. get rid of them.
[07:37] <vinze> kalikiana:  downloads would be in Get Xubuntu
[07:37] <vinze> But perhaps we would have to name it Downloads instead of Get Xubuntu
[07:37] <TheSheep> we still need graphics on the first page -- logo, screenshots, smiling people, whatever
[07:37] <somerville32> I think we should try to mirror ubuntu.com as much as possible
[07:37] <vinze> And then put an update howto under support
[07:38] <somerville32> Just with a different colour pal.
[07:38] <kalikiana> vinze: oh, yes, sry
[07:38] <TheSheep> vinze: yeah, that's more intuitive
[07:38] <cellofellow> Well, ubuntu and kubunta call it get cause you can get CD's too. Not so with Xubuntu.
[07:38] <earobinson> I agree with somerville32 
[07:38] <vinze> Yeah we should put a clear notice about that
[07:38] <Czubek> smiling people, that's what i like ;)
[07:38] <vinze> Unless they will be doing it for Feisty
[07:38] <vinze> How about smiling people dressed in dark-blue?
[07:38] <cellofellow> Kubuntu has gears, Ubuntu has smiling people, Xubuntu has rats.
[07:39] <vinze> Yeah, true cellofellow 
[07:39] <TheSheep> vinze: smiling people dressed as mice ;)
[07:39] <Czubek> lol
[07:39] <cellofellow> lol
[07:39] <vinze> Oh that would be cool! :P
[07:39] <vinze> And I think the font should be larger
[07:39] <somerville32> Xubuntu is still Linux for Humans... not Linux for Rats.
[07:39] <somerville32> haha
[07:39] <somerville32> So we can incorporate a people theme too
[07:39] <TheSheep> font size shoudn't be set at all -- then you get your browser's defaults, which is the only sane solution
[07:40] <vinze> Yeah I agree
[07:40] <vinze> And if they need to be smaller or larger, do it in percentages
[07:40] <cellofellow> I think it looks a little drab. Ubuntu is tasteful, Kubuntu is glossy, Xubuntu is just flat.
[07:40] <kalikiana> use 'pt' sizes :)
[07:40] <vinze> Kubuntu looks overdone to me
[07:40] <TheSheep> kalikiana: naah, *nobody* has dpi set right
[07:40] <vinze> 'pt' causes trouble on macs
[07:40] <cellofellow> Anything glossy does.
[07:41] <TheSheep> maybe we could be soft and plushy
[07:41] <TheSheep> and cuddly
[07:41] <vinze> Plushy sounds great to me
[07:41] <cellofellow> with little soft mice runnig around. lol
[07:41] <kalikiana> TheSheep: teddy-bear-brown? :P
[07:41] <TheSheep> kalikiana: pink
[07:41] <vinze> But I have no idea on how to do that, it'd probably be extra load on the artwork team
[07:41] <cellofellow> it needs to match the distro's colors whatever it does.
[07:41] <somerville32> Thats a good point
[07:41] <vinze> Plush mice
[07:41] <TheSheep> vinze: gimpressionist :)
[07:42] <somerville32> Is the artwork team going to contribute to website artwork?
[07:42] <vinze> Wow, gimppressionist is cool
[07:42] <TheSheep> somerville32: that's my plan, at least, I can also do the whole css
[07:42] <earobinson> well xfce is a lightweight graphical desktop environment, so shouldn't xubuntu be a lightweight ubuntu?
[07:42] <vinze> Well, I think the website should match the main theme
[07:42] <vinze> I can also do css, but not images
[07:43] <vinze> (Think of logo, etc.)
[07:43] <somerville32> Ok, lets review.
[07:43] <vinze> Vectors even worse
[07:43] <vinze> Go on:
[07:43] <TheSheep> maybe xubuntu.org should be flat (and clean), so that it shows how lightweight it is?
[07:44] <somerville32> I like the fluffy, cuddly feeling
[07:44] <somerville32> haha
[07:44] <somerville32> Anyhows.
[07:44] <earobinson> TheSheep ... exactly
[07:44] <vinze> How about web2.0-ish?
[07:44] <cellofellow> Should still look good. Add some curvy corners or something.
[07:44] <vinze> Minmalistic
[07:44] <TheSheep> vinze: puh-leeeze
[07:44] <somerville32> Xfce4 isn't minmalistic though
[07:44] <vinze> TheSheep: What?
[07:44] <kalikiana> simplisitc, no fancy ajax thingies
[07:44] <somerville32> Xfce4 isn't simply
[07:44] <earobinson> xfce4 is lightweight however
[07:44] <vinze> No, not AJAXy
[07:44] <somerville32> It is simply lightweight
[07:44] <vinze> But I like web 2.0 layouts
[07:44] <vinze> Just the CSS
[07:44] <TheSheep> I take it stays on drupal?
[07:44] <somerville32> Xfce4 is a powerful desktop environment
[07:44] <cellofellow> Just not Gmail.
[07:45] <TheSheep> somerville32: yes, but how do we want to advertise it? :)
[07:45] <vinze> No not Gmail indeed :P
[07:45] <cellofellow> TheSheep: why change the engine?
[07:45] <somerville32> I like the cuddly, cute, idea
[07:45] <kalikiana> css is okay, but i'd avoid any scripts, flash or transparency
[07:45] <earobinson> http://www.xfce.org/index.php?page=overview&lang=en
[07:45] <TheSheep> cellofellow: no reason, just making sure
[07:45] <vinze> Strong, having at keast all the basics, but light-weight
[07:45] <earobinson> Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for unix-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and lightweight, while still being visually appealing and easy to use.
[07:45] <TheSheep> kalikiana: of course
[07:45] <vinze> Just use large fonts, large line-heights, and one or two gradients
[07:46] <TheSheep> and shadows
[07:46] <somerville32> I think a good direction for the website should be clean (not simple or flat), fluffy, warm, and inviting
[07:46] <vinze> And of course font-family: sans-serif
[07:46] <cellofellow> Let's make the website visually appealing and esy to use :)
[07:46] <somerville32> I concur!
[07:46] <vinze> That fits in
[07:46] <TheSheep> somerville32: warm blue? :/
[07:46] <vinze> Wait, I'm going to put it on the wiki
[07:46] <somerville32> TheSheep: haha
[07:46] <somerville32> Ok, maybe cuddly blue?
[07:46] <TheSheep> somerville32: maybe we need a secondary color? yellow? red?
[07:47] <TheSheep> red on blue looks nice
[07:47] <somerville32> Our secondary colour is obvisously gray at this time
[07:47] <TheSheep> somerville32: hardly warm
[07:47] <cellofellow> two-tone blue is nice.
[07:48] <kalikiana> blue and gray sounds nice
[07:48] <somerville32> grayish-blue?
[07:48] <cellofellow> is the new website going to debut for Feisty? or before that?
[07:48] <somerville32> Cellofellow: Our new website has already debut
[07:48] <somerville32> We just need to improve it
[07:48] <somerville32> Anyhow, we're taking too much time on this subject.
[07:48] <TheSheep> yeah, everyone 'knows' something about looks :)
[07:48] <cellofellow> ok, I just thought you were going to improve it behind the scenes and then "release" it.
[07:49] <vinze> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Plans/Theme
[07:49] <cellofellow> what about the screenshot gallery idea?
[07:50] <somerville32> We can install a module
[07:50] <somerville32> Once drupal 5.0 comes out
[07:50] <somerville32> I suspect we'll be upgrading
[07:50] <vinze> Yeah that'd be allright
[07:50] <earobinson> cellofellow, that would be cool
[07:50] <somerville32> Or so thats the impression I get from jon
[07:50] <vinze> No link among the tabs needed, we can link there from the home page
[07:50] <cellofellow> earobinson: not my idea, somerville32's idea.
[07:50] <somerville32> and then I think we'll look at a screenshot module to help organize it
[07:51] <somerville32> Can we start the review for this item?
[07:51] <vinze> Yeah I think so
[07:51] <somerville32> 1. The artwork team is going to contribute to the website effort with... artwork <g>
[07:51] <cellofellow> we've mostly talked about looks. What about content?
[07:52] <somerville32> 2. We're going to implement tabs at the top
[07:52] <somerville32> 3. We're going to improve content in accordance of the mandate
[07:52] <somerville32> 4. We're going to continue to work on improving the skin
[07:52] <TheSheep> should we have a xubuntu tutorial, kind of a walktrough with screenshots?
[07:53] <vinze> The Desktop Guide does that
[07:53] <cellofellow> Isn't that the Welcome Centre? Or something Before the download?
[07:53] <kalikiana> yep, the welcome center's for that
[07:53] <TheSheep> kalikiana: it is? I though it's for general pointers and a link to the detailed tutorial :)
[07:53] <vinze> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Plans
[07:54] <vinze> *cough* Desktop Guide
[07:54] <kalikiana> TheSheep: yes, it's a first intro where later one can still read further - but we know that people first avoid to read :P
[07:55] <vinze> Tell us cellofellow 
[07:55] <cellofellow> Have a script that opens firefox on first login with tabs open to the Welcome Centre and te Xubuntu Website and stuff, and then deletes itself.
[07:55] <vinze> Na, that'd be annoying I think
[07:55] <vinze> Especially if it's someone's first encounter with Firefox or tabs
[07:56] <vinze> Anyway, shall we continue to the next item?
[07:56] <cellofellow> Puppy and DSL do it, and it goes away after the first login.
[07:56] <somerville32> Thats why we have the welcome centre though
[07:56] <somerville32> IT
[07:56] <somerville32> It'll launch on first login
[07:56] <cellofellow> Welcome Centre. Of course. If it's not there to welcome them, why call it that?
[07:56] <somerville32> :] 
[07:57] <vinze> We're getting off-topic...
[07:57] <somerville32> Everyone ready to move to the next topic?
[07:57] <cellofellow> Are we?
[07:57] <vinze> How about discussing Community Involvement?
[07:57] <cellofellow> ok
[07:57] <earobinson> sure
[07:57] <somerville32> And lets mix in "COLLABORATING WITH OTHER UBUNTU TEAMS" as well
[07:57] <vinze> OK
[07:57] <somerville32> We need to figure out how we can make it easier for people to get involved.
[07:58] <vinze> When someone wants to join, where would be the first place to look?
[07:58] <somerville32> The website under "getting involved", haha
[07:58] <TheSheep> vinze: wiki
[07:58] <cellofellow> Launchpad?
[07:58] <vinze> Right, website or wiki
[07:58] <vinze> Perhaps launchpad
[07:58] <earobinson> launchpad
[07:58] <somerville32> I think if we had a page which lists the different teams
[07:58] <somerville32> How to get involved
[07:58] <somerville32> What needs to be done
[07:59] <vinze> So we need to make it easy on those places to find out how to get involved
[07:59] <somerville32> And things like how to sign up to the mailing list would be good
[07:59] <TheSheep> and to keep them up to date
[07:59] <kalikiana> and a hint to #xubuntu-devel :)=
[07:59] <vinze> Then there also are people who might not have the intention of getting involved, but might decide to do so if the coincidentally find out they can easily
[07:59] <TheSheep> a 'what needs to be done' page last edited 2 years ago is hardly encouraging
[07:59] <luzi> there's a big "Contributing" section on the wiki frontpage
[07:59] <somerville32> There is also a big one at http://xubuntu.org/devel
[08:00] <vinze> I think that should be split in multiple pages
[08:00] <somerville32> Thats a good idea
[08:00] <vinze> So people only have to read sections that apply to us
[08:00] <vinze> *them
[08:00] <vinze> And then process that in the wiki
[08:01] <somerville32> We could also have a "general overview" page that talks about the mailing list and -devel channel
[08:01] <somerville32> However, one con for splitting into different pages
[08:01] <somerville32> Some of the sections don't have much content
[08:01] <vinze> Perhaps merging some sections?
[08:01] <cellofellow> un-subdivide or expand those littel sections.
[08:02] <somerville32> TBH, I don't see a problem with the current page becuase there is an index at the top
[08:02] <vinze> E.g. Reporting Bugs and " Ideas and feedback"
[08:02] <somerville32> So it is the same thing anyhow
[08:03] <vinze> Well, it always discourages me when there's a lot of text on one page
[08:03] <cellofellow> Commmunity involvement doesn't just meen dev. What about marketting, like spreadfirefox.com?
[08:03] <somerville32> Thats on the page too
[08:03] <somerville32> Speaking on advocacy
[08:03] <cellofellow> point me too the page I'm lost.
[08:03] <somerville32> We need to get a presence in the marketing team
[08:03] <vinze> http://www.xubuntu.org/devel
[08:03] <somerville32> http://xubuntu.org/devel
[08:03] <vinze> lol
[08:04] <vinze> OK, so who is in favour of splitting that page and who is against?
[08:04] <TheSheep> split
[08:04] <somerville32> I don't think it is worth the effort.
[08:04] <vinze> I don't mind doing it :P
[08:04] <cellofellow> we should market xubuntu as a replacement for Win98, seeing Win98 is no longer supported by M$.
[08:05] <vinze> 2:1
[08:05] <cellofellow> Don't split.
[08:05] <TheSheep> 2:2
[08:05] <vinze> 2:2
[08:05] <somerville32> Ubuntu doesn't have it split
[08:05] <vinze> Crao
[08:05] <vinze> *p
[08:05] <somerville32> And it isn't a lot of text
[08:05] <earobinson> vote no split
[08:05] <somerville32> And then we'd have a ton of sub-menu links
[08:05] <vinze> cellofellow: I don't agree, there are way more people that Xubuntu is good for
[08:05] <vinze> No more than we do now somerville32 
[08:06] <cellofellow> vinze: who said ONLY a replacement for win98?
[08:06] <somerville32> We have 4 now and splitting would make 9
[08:06] <somerville32> Maybe even 10 if we keep the meetings page
[08:06] <vinze> Noone, but if we were marketing on that
[08:07] <vinze> We should merge some sections then
[08:07] <cellofellow> vinze: so, don't be exclusive. Think of something else xubuntu *excels* at.
[08:07] <DrLock> no split: The index keeps the page from being intimidating, but being all on one page makes it easy to search quickly
[08:07] <vinze> And I don't think we should have off-site links
[08:07] <somerville32> 4:2 for not splitting
[08:07] <vinze> Right...
[08:07] <vinze> I give up :P
[08:07] <somerville32> lol
[08:07] <somerville32> I see what you mean vinze
[08:07] <somerville32> But there isn't enough content yet to warrant it
[08:08] <vinze> Any more points concerning the website?
[08:08] <vinze> That's true
[08:08] <somerville32> Well, I think the different teams should get their wiki pages updated and organized
[08:08] <vinze> But why those off-site links in a submenu?
[08:08] <somerville32> vinze: They are the team homepages
[08:08] <vinze> Why not under the Artwork section a link to http://www.xubuntu.org/devel
[08:08] <vinze> Etc.
[08:09] <vinze> That would be much more logical IMHO
[08:09] <cellofellow> good I dea.
[08:09] <somerville32> We could do that for sure but that means people will spend another 30 seconds looking
[08:09] <somerville32> And people want to get to their info quick
[08:09] <vinze> Sorry I meant to wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork
[08:10] <vinze> I think people looking to contribute to artwork would first look at the Artwork section and later or not at all at the menu
[08:10] <cellofellow> so, redundantly spread info all over, or 1 topic 1 place?
[08:10] <somerville32> I think we should have both
[08:10] <cellofellow> :S ok
[08:10] <vinze> The page won't be split, but I think moving the subsection off-site links from the menu to the subsections would be better
[08:10] <somerville32> sub-menus to team homepages and links in description
[08:11] <vinze> OK, so  I can add the links no matter what?
[08:11] <TheSheep> do we really need links to team pages on every page?
[08:11] <somerville32> It isn't on every page, TheSheep
[08:11] <somerville32> Only on the contribute page
[08:11] <TheSheep> I mean, most people will come there looking for info about xubuntu, not its development
[08:11] <somerville32> Vinze: Yup :)
[08:12] <TheSheep> ah, ok, I didn't understand the 'submenu' then :)
[08:12] <vinze> Ah, they're already there
[08:12] <somerville32> TheSheep: When you click "Get Involved", the submenu expands
[08:12] <somerville32> Anyhow, back to getting people involved.
[08:12] <somerville32> I think we need to get ourselves organized into teams and take responsability for keeping our content updated.
[08:12] <somerville32> For example, the artwork team needs to work on getting their wiki pages updated and organized
[08:12] <cellofellow> At what level do people start? Not jumping into development I don't think. Look at me. :)
[08:13] <somerville32> We'll update the website and wiki to make "getting involved" easier.
[08:13] <vinze> Translation, but that's more software-specific
[08:13] <somerville32> Vinze: Not at all
[08:13] <cellofellow> :?
[08:13] <somerville32> Vinze: We can translate all our applications via Rosseta
[08:13] <somerville32> Anyhows
[08:13] <somerville32> Lets talk about collaboration with our ubuntu teams
[08:13] <somerville32> *other
[08:14] <somerville32> The big one is ubuntu-marketing
[08:14] <vinze> OK I at least added a link to team meetings
[08:14] <vinze> Yeah perhaps some people could attend their meetings?
[08:15] <vinze> Anyway, I g2g, I'll read the logs 
[08:15] <somerville32> We need to start lobbying them to include the promotion of Xubuntu
[08:15] <cellofellow> Teams? Like ubuntu and kubuntu branches?
[08:15] <vinze> Bye
[08:15] <somerville32> This means that we need people interested in advocacy and marketing to work with them
[08:15] <cellofellow> So, let Ubuntu people know Xubuntu is there?
[08:16] <somerville32> Cellofellow: Would you be interested in working with them?
[08:16] <somerville32> Make some contacts
[08:16] <somerville32> Get things moving
[08:16] <cellofellow> uh. I don't know, um. What would I have to do?
[08:16] <somerville32> For most things, we could piggyback on their efforts.
[08:17] <somerville32> Cellofellow: Well, you could attend their meetings, push Xubuntu where you can, make some contacts, etc.
[08:17] <cellofellow> sounds like lobbying. :)
[08:17] <earobinson> lol

[08:17] <somerville32> I can help there too
[08:17] <somerville32> But we need to make Xubuntu have presence. 
[08:18] <cellofellow> I'll give it a shot. 
[08:18] <cellofellow> You've my email somerville32 
[08:18] <somerville32> Wicked. :] 
[08:18] <somerville32> What other ubuntu teams can we work with? Any ideas?
[08:18] <earobinson> doc team?
[08:19] <somerville32> I talked with them last night.
[08:19] <TheSheep> somerville32: kubuntu, take their themes ;)
[08:19] <cellofellow> should be working with them anyways.
[08:19] <somerville32> They said we need to get people interested in Xubuntu documentation
[08:19] <cellofellow> TheSheep: huh?
[08:19] <somerville32> And they'll help us out where we can
[08:19] <somerville32> *they
[08:19] <TheSheep> cellofellow: just kidding
[08:20] <somerville32> :] 
[08:20] <cellofellow> How much different is xubuntu from a normal xfce? Can we modify some of there docs?
[08:20] <somerville32> Xfce4 doesn't have much docs
[08:20] <cellofellow> just a thought
[08:20] <somerville32> So, any last topics we'd like to bring up or should we move on?
[08:21] <earobinson> move on I guess
[08:21] <cellofellow> Let's move to docs while we're on the subject anyways.
[08:21] <TheSheep> cellofellow: two main differences: no 'compositor' option and removed desktop icons
[08:21] <kalikiana> cellofellow: different/ gnomish desktop layout
[08:21] <cellofellow> the xubuntu xfwm isn't a stock xfwm? xubuntu added compositor?
[08:21] <cellofellow> kalikiana: the layout is just an options thing.
[08:21] <TheSheep> cellofellow: no, removed
[08:22] <somerville32> Yeah, lets discuss documentation
[08:22] <cellofellow> TheSheep: it's still there.
[08:22] <somerville32> Who is interested in working on that?
[08:22] <TheSheep> cellofellow: just because you had it enabled earlier
[08:23] <luzi> i still work on the documentation occacionally, but i don't have much time for it...
[08:23] <kalikiana> we might discuss later if compositor is an alternative to beryl ;)
[08:23] <cellofellow> docs are hard. Like, do you write for newbs, intermediate, or advanced users?
[08:23] <somerville32> Luzi: Are you John Levine?
[08:23] <TheSheep> cellofellow: you need docs for all those groups
[08:24] <kalikiana> i fear the 'official' docs for xfce is still too incomplete
[08:24] <luzi> sommerville32: no, i'm the main author of xubuntu desktop guide (so far)
[08:24] <cellofellow> TheSheep: the Welcome Centre sounds like a good starting-off point for newbs.
[08:24] <earobinson> TheSheep, na you should just gear them at beginners that way advanced users can skip over what they dont need
[08:24] <luzi> and the name is luzi.
[08:24] <somerville32> Is anyone interested in heading up the Xubuntu documentation efforts? Luzi?
[08:25] <TheSheep> earobinson: yeah, start simple, more advanced things later
[08:28] <luzi> i can not promise that i'll have much time for it, but i do plan to put some worki into xubuntu desktop guide for feisty.
[08:28] <luzi> s/worki/work/
[08:28] <cellofellow> what do newbs need most? Basic navagation, what apps do, how to install software?
[08:28] <earobinson> no g?
[08:29] <TheSheep> cellofellow: I started collecting some common questions from #xubuntu
[08:29] <TheSheep> cellofellow: like 'where is the file manager?'
[08:29] <earobinson> I doubt xubuntut has a large new users base, most users would start with ubuntu the move over I think
[08:29] <luzi> earobinson,: 'g' stands for global, so we don't need it if its just one instance
[08:31] <somerville32> :] 
[08:31] <cellofellow> What if more Linux newbs or even computer newbs come over to Xubuntu than we've been having?
[08:31] <somerville32> Luzi: Are you a member of the doc team?
[08:31] <luzi> sommerville32: yeah, i guess. i'm a comitter on their SVN repo, and i read the ML.
[08:32] <somerville32> Luzi: Could you be the editor-in-chief for this release cycle? I don't think anyone else has enough experience to get commit access to their repo yet.
[08:33] <somerville32> I'm sure there is a ton of us interested in helping out but we need someone with experience to lead the effort atleast.
[08:34] <somerville32> I know I'm interested in doing doc work 
[08:34] <somerville32> And I already do a lot of work on the wiki
[08:34] <luzi> sommerville32: i can't promise anything. maybe i'll be around, maybe not.
[08:34] <somerville32> Anyone else who could be reliable?
[08:34] <somerville32> *Do you know anyone else who could be reliable?
[08:35] <luzi> sommerville32, have a look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[08:35] <luzi> you can just send patches to ubuntu-doc mailing list and those guys will commit if for you.
[08:37] <somerville32> Alrighty.
[08:37] <somerville32> Who is interested in helping with the documentation effort?
[08:40] <somerville32> lol
[08:41] <somerville32> Ok, looks like it's going to be lonely on the doc team
[08:41] <somerville32> Do you want to talk about Open Week coming up?
[08:41] <cellofellow> What's Open Week?
[08:42] <somerville32> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/651
[08:42] <somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[08:43] <somerville32> Should we make a presentation or something?
[08:46] <earobinson> It would be nice to see one
[08:46] <vinze> Hey
[08:46] <vinze> Meeting still going?
[08:46] <somerville32> Hey Vinze
[08:47] <somerville32> Yup.
[08:47] <earobinson> but then do we have enough to talk about
[08:47] <somerville32> We're discussing Open Week
[08:47] <vinze> Great
[08:48] <somerville32> I guess it all depends if we have a volunteer or not to tlak
[08:48] <somerville32> haha
[08:48] <cellofellow> What's the point of Open Week? I think we do need some presence.
[08:48] <kalikiana> so like somone speaking about xubuntu or what?
[08:48] <vinze> A news item on the website perhaps? So people can at least take advantage even of non-Xubuntu specific topics
[08:48] <kalikiana> should be some pro then ;)
[08:49] <cellofellow> It's all in IRC channels?
[08:49] <earobinson> but how much could be said?
[08:49] <somerville32> They only have to talk for an hour
[08:49] <somerville32> And we've been talking about almost 2 now
[08:50] <vinze> Perhaps someone that has experience converting gnome-lib apps to normal gtk apps?
[08:50] <kalikiana> so would it be like this: 'hey, what has xubuntu for media?' - 'gxine it has.'
[08:50] <somerville32> It would talk about how to get involved with Xubuntu and what Xubuntu is
[08:50] <kalikiana> or like explaining what apps instead of gnome-apps
[08:50] <somerville32> And they'd most also likely field questions
[08:50] <cellofellow> sounds like a job for cody somerville to me.
[08:50] <vinze> No I meant what Jani did so ubuntu-system-tools or whatsitcalled
[08:51] <somerville32> Vinze: That doesn't really fit in with Open Week though
[08:51] <vinze> They can always ask for replacement programs in xubuntu-devel
[08:51] <somerville32> Cellofellow: haha, Why do you say that? :P
[08:51] <vinze> Doesn't it?
[08:51] <cellofellow> you seem pretty good at getting people involved.
[08:52] <vinze> Yeah I agree
[08:52] <vinze> But why wouldn't teaching people to make an app gnome-independant fit in?
[08:52] <somerville32> Vinze: 1. It would take more then a hour
[08:53] <vinze> Well I know nothing about it so I couldn't guess :P
[08:53] <somerville32> 2. It is more for teaching newbies how to get involved for the first time
[08:53] <vinze> Maintaining an Ubuntu Package?
[08:53] <vinze> That's also an item
[08:53] <somerville32> That can be covered within an Hour
[08:53] <somerville32> And besides, not all gnome-dependent apps are coded in a single language
[08:53] <somerville32> It could get messy
[08:53] <vinze> Yeah but 2. is no real reason :P
[08:53] <vinze> Ah that's true
[08:54] <vinze> Ah well...
[08:54] <TheSheep> what about the packaging party?
[08:54] <vinze> They're not Xubuntu-specific
[08:54] <vinze> So you can just follow the Ubuntu ones I guess
[08:55] <somerville32> Maybe just do what the sister projects are doing... a brief "intro" and how to get involved session
[08:55] <vinze> Btw, what topics have we dealt with up till now?
[08:55] <somerville32> We've done website, artwork, community, and documentation
[08:55] <vinze> Ah, so I only missed documentation
[08:55] <somerville32> hehe, yeah
[08:55] <somerville32> Ok, so you think I should do something?
[08:56] <TheSheep> when do we eat?
[08:56] <earobinson> it would be great if you could fell the hour
[08:56] <vinze> If you want to it'd be great
[08:56] <earobinson> + im sure some of us would come and support you
[08:56] <somerville32> Woot! :] 
[08:56] <somerville32> So, lets pick a time slot and stick it in
[08:56] <vinze> Right..
[08:56] <somerville32> Schedule is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[08:56] <vinze> Stick it in where it fits you
[08:56] <earobinson> 18.00 right after ask mark?
[08:57] <vinze> Can you? Are you allowed to stick it in where you want?
[08:58] <somerville32> I think so
[08:58] <somerville32> But I think that would be a tough act to follow
[08:58] <somerville32> And what if mark stays to watch?
[08:59] <vinze> Hehe, you can build a reputation :P
[08:59] <earobinson> Im sure thats why no one has taken it
[08:59] <somerville32> How about Wednesday at 2100?
[08:59] <vinze> Be brave and take it ;)
[09:00] <somerville32> haha
[09:00] <vinze> You're the one to decide
[09:00] <TheSheep> take-it take-it
[09:00] <somerville32> Ok, so that would be 2pm my time
[09:00] <vinze> take-iit take-it
[09:00] <TheSheep> somerville32: look, what's the worst thing that can happen?
[09:01] <somerville32> True. I could always change my name if I screw up, haha
[09:01] <vinze> You won't stutter
[09:01] <vinze> Lol
[09:01] <vinze> So, when will it be?
[09:02] <somerville32> Wednesday night would most likely be the best for me, TBH
[09:02] <somerville32> haha
[09:03] <vinze> There is no info on how to host your own
[09:03] <vinze> Do you know someone you could contact? Or should you just fit it it?
[09:03] <somerville32> I could e-mail Jono
[09:03] <somerville32> Anyhows, lets move on.
[09:03] <vinze> Agreed
[09:03] <somerville32> I'll let you all know at the end of the meeting so you can all be there <g>
[09:03] <vinze> Right
[09:03] <vinze> Next topic Menu Editor?
[09:04] <vinze> Or the roadmap, but I think Jani should be there
[09:04] <somerville32> Jani won't be here today
[09:04] <Czubek> Cya all.
[09:04] <vinze> Bye
[09:04] <vinze> So.. Next topic is?
[09:04] <somerville32> Feisty Fawn?
[09:04] <earobinson> FEISTY FAWN?
[09:04] <earobinson> lol
[09:05] <vinze> ???
[09:05] <somerville32> FEISTY FAWN!! :D
[09:05] <vinze> ???
[09:05] <earobinson> XUBUNTU FEISTY DEV-ROAD MAP
[09:05] <somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Agenda/2006-11-25#head-b3906fa39e6558abbf434f7340757371444f67d4
[09:05] <TheSheep> feisty frown
[09:05] <somerville32> "What emerging desktop technology can the Xubuntu distribution adopt?"
[09:05] <vinze> So how are we going to decide what to do when Jani isn't there?
[09:05] <vinze> Beryl-Beryl-Beryl!
[09:05] <somerville32> haha
[09:05] <TheSheep> somerville32: what is 'emerging desktop technology'?
[09:06] <vinze> Beryl-Beryl-Beryl!
[09:06] <TheSheep> somerville32: electronic pencil sharpeners?
[09:06] <somerville32> TheSheep: You'll have to "Ask Mark" at the "Ask Mark" meeting, haha :P
[09:06] <vinze> Beryl-Beryl-Beryl!
[09:06] <kalikiana> what about the search tool
[09:06] <vinze> Yeah that really is missing
[09:06] <somerville32> Well, work is already occuring on the search tool
[09:06] <TheSheep> yeah, that's desktop technology
[09:06] <vinze> Is it?
[09:06] <somerville32> Ubuntu is going to implement tracker
[09:06] <somerville32> And so we just need to make an applet or something for it
[09:06] <cellofellow> Dekstop search is cool.
[09:06] <TheSheep> I began to make a gtk front-end to tracker
[09:06] <earobinson> keep it as simple as possible I don't see the need to adopt anything, or at least make it an option duing install
[09:07] <vinze> So what exactly is tracker?
[09:07] <TheSheep> vinze: http://www.gnome.org/~jamiemcc/tracker/
[09:07] <kalikiana> tracker is a demon for sql-based fullsearch in filesystems
[09:07] <TheSheep> vinze: file indexer
[09:07] <kalikiana> and TheSheap already made a nice python GUI
[09:07] <vinze> Ah great
[09:07] <vinze> I'm learning Python right now :P
[09:08] <somerville32> What about telepathy?
[09:08] <somerville32> I'm not using Edgy
[09:08] <somerville32> Is telepathy used in the Xubuntu desktop?
[09:08] <vinze> Telepathy?
[09:08] <kalikiana> meta tracker is freedesktop compliant :)
[09:09] <somerville32> Telepathy is like a communication framework or something or another
[09:09] <vinze> Never heard of it
[09:09] <somerville32> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[09:09] <TheSheep> somerville32: but xubuntu is 90% a one-user-at-a-time  install
[09:10] <vinze> Not for me
[09:10] <vinze> Btw, Tracker looks cool
[09:10] <kalikiana> and it is fast
[09:10] <vinze> But about telepathy: what exactly is its use?
[09:10] <kalikiana> and there are cli tools ;)
[09:11] <somerville32> I think that maybe we should defer Feisty Fawn and Dev-Roadmap until we have a more developer-enabled meeting. What do you guys think?
[09:11] <TheSheep> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/IM/DesktopIntegrationSIPIM?action=show&redirect=MOTUIM%2FDesktopIntegrationSIPIM
[09:11] <TheSheep> somerville32: yup
[09:12] <TheSheep> share presence and address book information between any application that deals with people
[09:13] <earobinson> I like that one TheSheep 
[09:13] <somerville32> What about the desktop menu?
[09:13] <earobinson> huh?
[09:14] <vinze> Well, if I knew how to edit it by manually perhaps I could try and make a Python app but I don't know how long that'll take...
[09:14] <TheSheep> right, I'd like to have a second 'Places' menu
[09:14] <somerville32> IS the current menu freedesktop.org compliant?
[09:14] <TheSheep> somerville32: yes
[09:14] <somerville32> Why isn't it the same as Gnome and KDE then?
[09:14] <TheSheep> somerville32: it doesn't implement the full spec
[09:14] <kalikiana> TheSheep: what exactly do you want?
[09:15] <kalikiana> TheShepp: what is missing do you think?
[09:15] <vinze> It's partly compliant
[09:15] <TheSheep> kalikiana: a menu with 'home, filesystem, trash, media, etc.'
[09:15] <vinze> What's the etc.?
[09:15] <TheSheep> kalikiana: all links to Thunar with different parameters
[09:15] <TheSheep> vinze: et cetera
[09:15] <somerville32> Like Ubuntu's setup
[09:15] <vinze> Yeah but what does it stand for?
[09:15] <somerville32> I agree as well
[09:15] <kalikiana> TheSheep: oh, like once we had that in the panel :)
[09:15] <somerville32> We could have Applications, Places, and System
[09:15] <vinze> If we have a menu with only four items...
[09:16] <kalikiana> so should we have places in the panel? or in the main menu?
[09:16] <somerville32> In the panel
[09:16] <somerville32> Like three different menus
[09:16] <TheSheep> somerville32: that's a hard one, afaik xfce can have only one automatically-generated menu
[09:16] <vinze> Would it be possible to have the System menu only show up for people with administrator rights?
[09:16] <kalikiana> i like browser, terminal and fileman in the panel
[09:16] <TheSheep> somerville32: but the 'places' menu doesn't need to be autogenerated
[09:16] <vinze> Perhaps not Terminal kalikiana 
[09:17] <vinze> Yeah but not everybody accesses it frequently, especially not new Linux users
[09:17] <vinze> You can add it yourself, can't you?
[09:17] <kalikiana> isn't it essential for anybody to use a terminal sometime?
[09:17] <vinze> My panel is full of icons
[09:17] <TheSheep> vinze: but they should ;)
[09:18] <cellofellow> Mine's full of icons and little menus. :)
[09:18] <vinze> Then Xubuntu would have a huge learning curve
[09:18] <somerville32> I think we should just conform to what Applications have
[09:18] <kalikiana> if there is no terminal, what about 'type apt-get...' for support?
[09:18] <somerville32> Err..
[09:18] <somerville32> To what Ubuntu has
[09:18] <vinze> Use Synaptic
[09:18] <kalikiana> but often you can't help with GUI only
[09:19] <vinze> If they say "type sudo apt-get..." they also say "Open a Terminal Window"
[09:19] <TheSheep> btw, the link to terminal is in the menu, under 'system'
[09:19] <vinze> Yeah where it should be
[09:19] <vinze> Not by default in the panel
[09:19] <TheSheep> and Thunar has 'open terminal here' in the context menu
[09:19] <somerville32> Maybe we could draw up a specification?
[09:19] <kalikiana> oh, there is a link in system *g*
[09:19] <somerville32> I'd like to setup default shortcuts too
[09:19] <somerville32> In Thunar
[09:19] <vinze> But what about the System menu only showing up for users with administrator rights?
[09:19] <vinze> Yeah me too
[09:20] <vinze> Ehh, Templates I mean
[09:20] <somerville32> That too
[09:20] <somerville32> For System, I think everyone should see it
[09:20] <somerville32> And shutdown and what should be in there
[09:20] <vinze> Why?
[09:20] <vinze> Shutdown shouldn't be in there
[09:20] <somerville32> It is in Ubuntu
[09:20] <vinze> Only things that only adminstrators can do
[09:20] <somerville32> Only things Administrators can do should be under "Administration"
[09:20] <somerville32> Which could be under System
[09:20] <vinze> Oh, then I mean that one
[09:21] <vinze> Can "Administration" be hidden for non-administrators?
[09:21] <somerville32> I'm sure we could figure out something
[09:21] <vinze> That'd be great
[09:21] <cellofellow> Makes no diff. You still need sudo rights to use those.
[09:21] <vinze> I think it's especially confusing when users are asked to enter a password and the only password they know is wrong
[09:21] <cellofellow> true
[09:21] <vinze> They can't do things there anyway, so...
[09:22] <somerville32> I think we should have a "run as" tool instead of sudo
[09:22] <vinze> A "run as" tool?
[09:22] <somerville32> What I mean, being able to select the user too
[09:22] <vinze> Oh, yeah
[09:22] <earobinson> like windows?
[09:22] <somerville32> Yup.
[09:22] <vinze> Does windows have that?
[09:23] <kalikiana> would noobs use that?
[09:23] <vinze> Yeah
[09:23] <kalikiana> vinze: win2k has, i believe
[09:23] <TheSheep> somerville32: what's that for? I mean, only root can switch users anyways
[09:23] <vinze> E.g. for Thunar
[09:23] <somerville32> It would be especially useful for xscreensaver lock
[09:23] <TheSheep> a link with 'open another gdm session' would be good
[09:23] <vinze> If someone quickly needs to save their files to their USB stick but someone else is at the computer they don't have to go back to the login window
[09:23] <TheSheep> it is there in gnome
[09:24] <luzi> I have got to go. Byebye...
[09:24] <vinze> Oh I set it up too
[09:24] <vinze> Bye
[09:24] <cellofellow> Yeah, there's no way to open a new login without first locking the screen,
[09:24] <TheSheep> it should be there by defualt
[09:24] <vinze> I agree
[09:24] <somerville32> I think someone with admin access should be able to unlock a user's screen or atleast force it to log out without having to start a new gdm session
[09:24] <TheSheep> probably also on a keyboard shortcut
[09:25] <somerville32> Ok, so we're going to write a spec that includes some customization to xubuntu default settings?
[09:25] <cellofellow> There is a button in kubuntu and ubuntu to open a new login session, nothing like that Xubuntu.
[09:25] <vinze> Yeah we should
[09:25] <earobinson> would be usefull
[09:25] <TheSheep> cellofellow: you can do it with a simple launcher
[09:25] <vinze> Anyway, on to another point?
[09:25] <cellofellow> What't the command then?
[09:26] <kalikiana> where would it open a new session?
[09:26] <vinze> It would go back to gdm
[09:26] <vinze> I'm not on my home computer so I can't look up the command now
[09:26] <kalikiana> oh, and the last one is still open?
[09:26] <vinze> Something with gdmflexiserver
[09:26] <vinze> Yeah
[09:26] <kalikiana> cool
[09:26] <vinze> Perhaps just gdmflexiserver will do
[09:26] <cellofellow> What't the command then?
[09:26] <vinze> Perhaps just gdmflexiserver will do
[09:27] <kalikiana> so put that in the wiki, i'm persuaded ;)
[09:27] <vinze> Btw, where can I find the logs, I got to go in a mintue...
[09:27] <somerville32> It'll be on the wiki
[09:27] <earobinson> me 2
[09:27] <somerville32> Last topic
[09:27] <vinze> OK, great
[09:27] <vinze> Which is...?
[09:27] <somerville32> Future meetings
[09:27] <vinze> Right
[09:27] <somerville32> Should we have regular dev meetings?
[09:27] <vinze> Emm.. How often?
[09:28] <somerville32> Every 3 weeks have a dev meeting?
[09:28] <somerville32> And teams can schedule whenever they want?
[09:28] <vinze> I think not too often, 3 weeks are fine IMHO
[09:28] <vinze> Yeah
[09:28] <somerville32> Maybe every 2 weeks even?
[09:28] <vinze> Perhaps 2 weeks is too often
[09:28] <earobinson> ya 3 sounds good
[09:28] <vinze> But I'm not sure, we could also just try it
[09:28] <vinze> Keep it on 3 for now, move to 2 if it's too little?
[09:28] <somerville32> The TechBoard meets every 2 weeks
[09:29] <vinze> OK then, perhaps the other way around?
[09:29] <somerville32> Whats the other way around?
[09:29] <earobinson> 2 for now move it to 3 if its to much
[09:29] <vinze> So once every 2 weeks and if it's too often move it to 3
[09:30] <vinze> Let's do that then, now decide on when
[09:30] <vinze> Weekends would be best for me
[09:30] <vinze> Normally I'm not at the computer in the evenings, in weekends they can be during daytime
[09:30] <TheSheep> lots of people travel at weekends
[09:30] <vinze> Oh crap...
[09:30] <somerville32> Jani wants weekday meetings
[09:30] <vinze> That's what you get with different ages :P
[09:30] <cellofellow> nothing's ever good for everyone.
[09:31] <vinze> So when will we do it?
[09:31] <earobinson> alter it
[09:31] <cellofellow> Does that meen the meetings over? ^^^^
[09:31] <somerville32> Wednesday nights
[09:31] <vinze> Almost :P
[09:31] <vinze> Then I can't ever be there, but ah well...
[09:32] <earobinson> why not have every odd meeting on weekends and even during the weekday
[09:32] <earobinson> well i gtg
[09:32] <vinze> Hmm.. .That'd be an option
[09:32] <vinze> Bye
[09:32] <somerville32> Wednesday nights 2400 UTC?
[09:32] <vinze> 2400!?! Don't you have a life? :P
[09:32] <kalikiana> aren't still topics missing?
[09:33] <somerville32> 2400 UTC is 8pm for me
[09:33] <somerville32> 2300 UTC?
[09:33] <somerville32> 2200 UTC?
[09:33] <vinze> And 0100 for me :P
[09:33] <vinze> Anyway, I can't be there at wednesdays, I think all people that can should vote on the time
[09:34] <cellofellow> I never know. I'll come to the ones I can.
[09:34] <vinze> So about about earobinson's proposal?
[09:34] <somerville32> Alrighty.
[09:34] <vinze> Who does the logs?
[09:34] <somerville32> I'll upload the log
[09:35] <vinze> OK
[09:36] <somerville32> :)
[09:37] <somerville32> I'll also do a summary on the ml
[09:38] <vinze> OK, perhaps also put that on the wiki?
[09:38] <somerville32> Yup :] 
[09:39] <vinze> Great
[09:39] <vinze> It is also worth a news item at the site?
[09:40] <somerville32> I don't think so
[09:40] <somerville32> But the Open Week event is
[09:40] <somerville32> :] 
[09:41] <vinze> Right... What exactly should be in it?
[09:41] <vinze> Oh I got to go
[09:41] <vinze> Bye