| Fujitsu | Isn't it Herd, not Hord? | 12:15 |
|---|---|---|
| joejaxx | oh | 12:16 |
| joejaxx | Herd then | 12:16 |
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| joejaxx | hello lophyte | 12:16 |
| joejaxx | :) | 12:16 |
| Fujitsu | Hm, LP really doesn't render well in elinks. | 12:18 |
| elkbuntu | Fujitsu, the whole ajax thing would pretty much screw you over too, i would think | 12:18 |
| Fujitsu | elkbuntu: There's no AJAX in LP, AFAIK... | 12:20 |
| joejaxx | what is the standards and debhelper build depend for feisty? | 12:20 |
| joejaxx | 3.7.2.2 and 5.0.0? | 12:21 |
| TheMuso | Fujitsu: Turn off columns/tables | 12:21 |
| TheMuso | I have no problem with it like that | 12:21 |
| joejaxx | anyone know? | 12:23 |
| elkbuntu | Fujitsu, fine then, whatever is the funky stuff that changes stuff without changing url | 12:24 |
| LaserJock | joejaxx: I'd keep it simple and go with 3.7.2 and 5.0 | 12:25 |
| LaserJock | elkbuntu: LP uses plone I think | 12:26 |
| LaserJock | elkbuntu: you a kde'er? | 12:26 |
| === Fujitsu is a nothinger at the moment. | ||
| elkbuntu | LaserJock, nto really, but i have a kde feisty on my laptop | 12:26 |
| Fujitsu | Console forever! | 12:26 |
| elkbuntu | LaserJock, is there a reason you ask? | 12:28 |
| LaserJock | elkbuntu: oh, I like to know who I can run to when I get in the KDE mood | 12:33 |
| LaserJock | ;-) | 12:33 |
| elkbuntu | ha | 12:34 |
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| joejaxx | well the update is going | 12:46 |
| joejaxx | ? Unknown desktop package: mkisofs | 12:48 |
| joejaxx | ? Unknown desktop package: cdrecord | 12:48 |
| joejaxx | these are not in feisty? | 12:48 |
| LaserJock | let me see | 12:49 |
| LaserJock | I remember that coming up | 12:49 |
| [A] ndy80 | admin123: ok, I'm reading the document you told me before: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#l1 but I can't understand.... do I have to use the reportbug tool to request a package to be included in debian? | 12:50 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: you don't have to but it is handy | 12:51 |
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| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: are there other ways to request a package to be included in debian? | 12:53 |
| LaserJock | by email | 12:53 |
| erik1397 | Does anyone know whether the program Tovid will be in the feisty repos? | 12:54 |
| LaserJock | erik1397: I take it it isn't in feisty currently? | 12:55 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: ok, I'll try to use it but I think it's a bit complcated :) | 12:56 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: yep | 12:56 |
| joejaxx | LaserJock: cdrecord and mkisofs are on the ubuntu feisty seeds | 12:56 |
| joejaxx | hmm | 12:56 |
| LaserJock | erik1397: I see a tovid package is on REVU | 12:57 |
| erik1397 | LaserJock: nope | 12:57 |
| LaserJock | erik1397: so it looks like it is being worked on | 12:57 |
| erik1397 | LaserJock: where? | 12:57 |
| erik1397 | o awesome | 12:57 |
| LaserJock | erik1397: revu.tauware.de | 12:57 |
| erik1397 | awesome | 01:00 |
| erik1397 | do you think it'll be in feisty though? or do you think that it wont make it until feisty+1? | 01:01 |
| LaserJock | we're still pretty early in feisty | 01:01 |
| LaserJock | and it looks like jdong is doing it | 01:01 |
| ogra | extremely early | 01:01 |
| LaserJock | so I would imagine it should be in Feisty no problem | 01:01 |
| joejaxx | LaserJock: i wonder why it is doing that | 01:02 |
| LaserJock | ogra: you're alive! | 01:02 |
| joejaxx | skipping cdrecord and mkisofs | 01:02 |
| joejaxx | ogra: hello | 01:02 |
| erik1397 | LaserJock: thanks for the good news | 01:02 |
| LaserJock | ogra: after reading your blog post I wondered if Poland had swallowed you | 01:02 |
| ogra | LaserJock, sure, i'll fly out on monday morning... if i'm alive afetr returning you can congratulate ;) | 01:03 |
| erik1397 | you see, my most popular how-to in the ubuntu forums concerns that program, but installation for it is kinda tricky | 01:03 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: the output of reportbug is quite different from the output described in the document... for example it asks me the versione of the package, the problem with the package ecc... | 01:03 |
| LaserJock | ogra: haha, will do | 01:03 |
| [A] ndy80 | like it was a real bug report | 01:03 |
| ogra | LaserJock, actually it's really nice here, we should have a conf here | 01:03 |
| erik1397 | so having it in the repos would be awesome | 01:03 |
| [A] ndy80 | there's no problem with the package, I just want to submit it :) | 01:03 |
| ogra | (apart from the fact that everything is made from pork) | 01:03 |
| erik1397 | i guess i should just contact jdong for details, right? | 01:03 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: did you pick wnpp for the package? | 01:04 |
| ogra | (whats not pork is imported ) | 01:04 |
| LaserJock | ogra: well, get Canonical to send me and I'll go ;-) | 01:04 |
| LaserJock | erik1397: yeah | 01:04 |
| erik1397 | k | 01:05 |
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| ogra | hehe, i'll work on it ... the wimen are *extrmely* beautiful, the beer is good, prices are very cheap, you just cant get a steak anywhere ... | 01:05 |
| joejaxx | lol steak | 01:05 |
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| ogra | joejaxx, dont laugh ... after having pork for a week in *everything* you will understand :) | 01:06 |
| joejaxx | ogra: :) | 01:06 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: what is wnpp? | 01:07 |
| joejaxx | ogra: i whould how far poland is from the usa | 01:07 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: I just did reportbug --email username@domain.tld wnpp | 01:07 |
| [A] ndy80 | like the document say to do | 01:08 |
| === joejaxx tries to calculate | ||
| ogra | its still on CET ... (on the edge) | 01:09 |
| ogra | err CEST | 01:09 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: ok, and what did it ask you? | 01:09 |
| joejaxx | ogra: We could not calculate driving directions between New Jersey, USA and Poland. </quote> haha | 01:10 |
| ogra | haha | 01:10 |
| ogra | you couldnt calculate polish trasport either ;) | 01:10 |
| joejaxx | ;) | 01:10 |
| ogra | *transport | 01:10 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: Please enter the version of the package this report applies to (blank OK) | 01:11 |
| [A] ndy80 | then... | 01:11 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: Please briefly describe your problem (you can elaborate in a moment; an empty response will stop reportbug). This should be a concise summary of what is | 01:11 |
| [A] ndy80 | wrong with the package, ecc.... | 01:11 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=397254 for an example of what to put | 01:14 |
| Ubugtu | Debian bug 397254 in wnpp "RFP: 3gpwiz -- Convert almost any movie type to a format (3gp/mp4) for mobile phones" [Wishlist,Open] | 01:14 |
| joejaxx | can anyone create an event at OpenWeek? | 01:14 |
| LaserJock | no | 01:14 |
| ogra | joejaxx, you should contact jono if you want to do anything | 01:14 |
| joejaxx | ok that is what i thought | 01:14 |
| LaserJock | you should talk to Jono if you want something | 01:14 |
| joejaxx | oh | 01:16 |
| joejaxx | i do not think my subject whould benefit anyone anyway haha | 01:16 |
| joejaxx | oh well | 01:19 |
| joejaxx | back to packaging | 01:19 |
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| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: mmm.... understanding how this utility works is harder than writing the entire application :( | 01:26 |
| zul | when is openweek again im too lazy to read the wiki right now | 01:26 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: what's it doing now? | 01:27 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: I'll try to publish somewhere my utility... then... if someone want to include it in debian/ubuntu, will have all my greetings ;) | 01:27 |
| LaserJock | zul: starts Monday | 01:27 |
| [A] ndy80 | ah... | 01:27 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: it opened me a texteditor... but I don't know what to write inside.... packagename is set to wnpp | 01:27 |
| [A] ndy80 | but it should contain my package name (smartfan) | 01:27 |
| [A] ndy80 | then.. it told me that description was too long and I didn't specify the url where to find the package! | 01:28 |
| [A] ndy80 | absurd.... | 01:28 |
| [A] ndy80 | I think they should have at least a web based submit tool | 01:28 |
| [A] ndy80 | easier to use | 01:28 |
| [A] ndy80 | else is a big waste of time | 01:28 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: this is debian we are talking about. They do everything via email | 01:29 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: this explain me a lot of things ;) | 01:29 |
| [A] ndy80 | LaserJock: isn't possible to include a package in ubuntu that is not included in debian? | 01:30 |
| LaserJock | [A] ndy80: yes it is | 01:32 |
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| LaserJock | hi bddebian | 02:02 |
| bddebian | Heya LaserJock, how's it going? | 02:04 |
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| LaserJock | bddebian: it's going | 02:06 |
| LaserJock | I actually got some code committed on an upstream | 02:06 |
| bddebian | Nice | 02:06 |
| LaserJock | I'm pretty happy about that | 02:06 |
| LaserJock | it should be included in a release this weekend | 02:06 |
| bddebian | Very cool. What package? | 02:07 |
| _MMA_ | LaserJock: ChemTools? | 02:07 |
| LaserJock | gchemutils | 02:07 |
| bddebian | Ah cool | 02:08 |
| LaserJock | I got to learn a little C++ and Glade | 02:08 |
| bddebian | Ugh, C++ scares me :-) | 02:08 |
| LaserJock | helped fix some bugs to do what I wanted | 02:08 |
| LaserJock | I feel kinda productive ;-) | 02:08 |
| bddebian | Heh, I wish I did | 02:09 |
| LaserJock | well, I won't let it go to my head ;-) | 02:16 |
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| DarkMageZ | anyone know of a guide to learning c or c++ for those who get bored quickly? | 02:43 |
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| LaserJock | DarkMageZ: find some C or C++ program you like and start coding? | 02:47 |
| DarkMageZ | yeah, but without understanding the code in the slightest first... that doesn't work | 02:48 |
| LaserJock | so then you go and learn what you need | 02:49 |
| LaserJock | do you know any other programing languages? | 02:49 |
| DarkMageZ | LaserJock, i knew alittle vb6 | 02:53 |
| zul | ew evil | 02:58 |
| joejaxx | lol | 02:58 |
| joejaxx | well i just ported fluxbuntu-meta to feisty | 02:58 |
| joejaxx | even though feisty is doing some weird things repository wise | 02:58 |
| zul | vb6 is not exactly a programming language ;) | 02:58 |
| joejaxx | like not recognizing cdrecord and mkisofs | 02:59 |
| joejaxx | now i need to port the artwork package | 03:00 |
| joejaxx | and finish the settings package | 03:00 |
| LaserJock | DarkMageZ: well, then read through a quick C/C++ tutorial first :-) | 03:04 |
| LaserJock | joejaxx: excellent | 03:04 |
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| gnomefreak | is ther an edgy-updates universe multiverse repo or just the main restricted | 03:06 |
| gnomefreak | joejaxx: thank you :) | 03:06 |
| joejaxx | gnomefreak: what did i do? lol | 03:07 |
| gnomefreak | fluxbuntu-meta | 03:07 |
| gnomefreak | ive been wanting that so bad | 03:07 |
| joejaxx | ah | 03:07 |
| joejaxx | you are most welcome | 03:07 |
| joejaxx | :) | 03:07 |
| LaserJock | gnomefreak: sure -updates, etc. are for all components | 03:07 |
| LaserJock | we have -proposed and -security too | 03:08 |
| gnomefreak | that maybe the issue thank you i will get him to see if it fixs it | 03:08 |
| gnomefreak | im thinking -proposed doesnt have ff updates in it | 03:08 |
| LaserJock | gnomefreak: what are you talking about? | 03:09 |
| gnomefreak | ff 2 keep crashing and im hoping its just an update issue | 03:09 |
| LaserJock | do you have flash 9? | 03:09 |
| gnomefreak | LaserJock: ive had a usr that has had issues with ff on edgy | 03:09 |
| LaserJock | I know linux mint had bad problems with FF crashing all the time | 03:09 |
| gnomefreak | he doesnt have flash at all i gave him flash 9 to replace his flash 7 and helped but still ended up core dumping | 03:10 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 03:10 |
| gnomefreak | spent over 5 hours on the user in the last couple of days | 03:10 |
| LaserJock | is there a bug report? | 03:10 |
| gnomefreak | it started as an automatix issue but still there after reinstalling | 03:10 |
| gnomefreak | not yet | 03:10 |
| gnomefreak | i want to be sure its not hd related first | 03:11 |
| joejaxx | hmm | 03:11 |
| joejaxx | why is ubuntu-artwork listed under gnome | 03:11 |
| gnomefreak | because it is gnome | 03:12 |
| gnomefreak | kubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-artwork | 03:12 |
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| joejaxx | sudo apt-cache show kubuntu-artwork | 03:13 |
| joejaxx | W: Unable to locate package kubuntu-artwork | 03:13 |
| joejaxx | E: No packages found | 03:13 |
| joejaxx | hmm | 03:13 |
| LaserJock | they don't have an artwork packages | 03:13 |
| LaserJock | should be just kubuntu-default-settings | 03:13 |
| joejaxx | oh | 03:13 |
| joejaxx | hmm | 03:13 |
| LaserJock | I think they plan on splitting it out at some point, but I'm not postive about that | 03:14 |
| joejaxx | bah lol what am i supposed to label this under | 03:14 |
| joejaxx | fluxbuntu-artwork | 03:14 |
| LaserJock | whatever you want | 03:14 |
| LaserJock | you're the dev | 03:14 |
| joejaxx | even labels theirs under the wm/de | 03:14 |
| joejaxx | for the Section | 03:15 |
| gnomefreak | oh sorry | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | x11 | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | that's where fluxbox is | 03:15 |
| LaserJock | is fluxbuntu going there? | 03:15 |
| joejaxx | fluxbuntu-meta's section is base | 03:16 |
| joejaxx | i do not know if that is wrong or not | 03:16 |
| LaserJock | hmmm | 03:16 |
| LaserJock | joejaxx: the definition of base on package.u.c is "Basic needed utilities of every Debian system" | 03:17 |
| joejaxx | ok yeap that is definitely wrong | 03:18 |
| LaserJock | and as much as you want to promot fluxbuntu, I doubt that you can claim it should be on *every* Debian system ;-) | 03:18 |
| LaserJock | *promote | 03:18 |
| joejaxx | well actually i was following this | 03:19 |
| joejaxx | Source: ubuntu-meta | 03:19 |
| joejaxx | Section: base | 03:19 |
| joejaxx | lol | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | maybe Ubuntu was a little optimistic | 03:19 |
| joejaxx | i wonder what i should change it too | 03:19 |
| LaserJock | xubuntu-meta is in misc | 03:20 |
| joejaxx | ok | 03:20 |
| joejaxx | that is the section i had fluxbuntu-artwork in | 03:20 |
| joejaxx | i will leave it | 03:20 |
| joejaxx | as misc | 03:20 |
| joejaxx | and change the other one to misc as well | 03:21 |
| LaserJock | -doc should be in text (if you ever make one) | 03:21 |
| joejaxx | ok | 03:21 |
| joejaxx | should the settings one be misc as well? | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | xubuntu-artwork is in x11 | 03:22 |
| LaserJock | who knows | 03:22 |
| joejaxx | just build fluxbuntu-artwork | 03:30 |
| joejaxx | i have to rebuild meta though | 03:30 |
| joejaxx | ok rebuilt that one | 03:34 |
| joejaxx | now to the divert nonsense haha | 03:34 |
| joejaxx | this should be interesting | 03:35 |
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| joejaxx | anyone have an example of a simple preinst file? | 03:57 |
| joejaxx | nevermind i can reference the one from fluxbox i forgot about that one | 03:58 |
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| joejaxx | how does the fluxbox package get away with not having a install file | 05:15 |
| imbrandon | depends on the packaging , if the makefile puts the files in all the correect places then there really isnt a need for it with say cdbs | 05:17 |
| imbrandon | moins all | 05:17 |
| joejaxx | hello | 05:18 |
| joejaxx | imbrandon: figured out diversions | 05:19 |
| joejaxx | but | 05:19 |
| joejaxx | i need to know the exact place where fluxbox installs stuff | 05:19 |
| imbrandon | what are you making diversions in fluxbox for ? | 05:19 |
| joejaxx | no in fluxbox | 05:20 |
| joejaxx | not* | 05:20 |
| joejaxx | in the fluxbuntu-default-settings package | 05:20 |
| imbrandon | ok umm , still a bit puzzled why you would need deversions | 05:20 |
| joejaxx | because i have configuration files for fluxbox wdm and rox | 05:20 |
| imbrandon | have you looked at say kubuntu-default-settings | 05:21 |
| === joejaxx apt-get source's | ||
| joejaxx | wow 10mb? | 05:22 |
| imbrandon | there abouts yea | 05:22 |
| imbrandon | but we dont use deversions at all | 05:22 |
| imbrandon | if anything we use alternatives for a few thins ( like the uspash artwork ) | 05:23 |
| imbrandon | brb food time | 05:23 |
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| imbrandon | fabo: ping | 05:30 |
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| Hobbsee | hey all | 05:41 |
| joejaxx | hello | 05:42 |
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| imbrandon | heya Hobbsee | 05:46 |
| Hobbsee | hey imbrandon :) | 05:46 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: fixed all of kde yet? | 05:47 |
| imbrandon | Hobbsee: hehe no just uploaded kdepim and working on beryl crack right now | 05:47 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: i think kdepim had another bug. | 05:47 |
| imbrandon | gonna try to get that finished up here in the next few | 05:47 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/bugs/73288 | 05:47 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 73288 in kubuntu-meta "News issue" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] | 05:47 |
| imbrandon | NOW you mention it AFTER i upload it hehehe | 05:48 |
| imbrandon | just teasin | 05:48 |
| imbrandon | i'll look after this | 05:48 |
| imbrandon | i wanna finish this beryl crack so people stop asking me about it | 05:48 |
| imbrandon | :) | 05:48 |
| Hobbsee | imbrandon: apologies for going to work :P | 05:48 |
| imbrandon | ( they are still gonna be mad when they see how i have it versioned ) | 05:48 |
| Hobbsee | how'd you do it? | 05:49 |
| Hobbsee | 0.0.0crack-0ubuntu1? | 05:49 |
| imbrandon | the correct way, but that happens to conflict with anyone that has the beryl repo in their sources.list | 05:49 |
| Hobbsee | that's a feature | 05:49 |
| imbrandon | sooo i'll have to poke the beryl guys later and tell them , because anyone that whine's i'm sending them their way,i told them not to do it at UDS but nooooo :) | 05:50 |
| Hobbsee | well, you dont want the beryl repo stuff trying to work with yours anyway | 05:50 |
| imbrandon | true, but its still gonna cause the ricers headaches | 05:51 |
| Hobbsee | they'll deal. that's why they're ricers | 05:51 |
| imbrandon | :) | 05:51 |
| imbrandon | anyway i have everything but emerald fixed up, once i finish that ( building now to tet ) i'm gonna upload it | 05:51 |
| imbrandon | and de-virginize the repo's | 05:52 |
| imbrandon | oh the agony of the feisty repos will have when the archive admin goes threw the NEW queue | 05:52 |
| imbrandon | :) | 05:52 |
| nixternal | repo pr0n? i have seen it all now | 05:52 |
| Hobbsee | nice :) | 05:53 |
| Hobbsee | hah | 05:53 |
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| joejaxx | Goodnight MOTU | 06:41 |
| ajmitch | night | 06:41 |
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| imbrandon | heya ajmitch | 06:49 |
| ajmitch | hello | 06:50 |
| imbrandon | wanan test some crack in a few ? | 06:50 |
| ajmitch | of what? | 06:51 |
| imbrandon | beryl crack | 06:51 |
| ajmitch | I guess | 06:51 |
| ajmitch | might as well see if my desktop can handle the madness | 06:51 |
| imbrandon | hehe | 06:51 |
| imbrandon | i'm trying to fix a circle dep error right now then i /think/ they will be atleaste ready to upload | 06:52 |
| imbrandon | to the repo's , they will need some love over the next months but not /as/ crackfull as i thought | 06:52 |
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| imbrandon | heya robitaille and Burgundavia | 06:53 |
| ajmitch | so how many people are working on beryl packages now? 4? | 06:54 |
| Burgundavia | hey imbrandon and robitaille | 06:54 |
| ajmitch | hello Burgundavia | 06:54 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch: 3 and we all combined the effort | 06:54 |
| imbrandon | s | 06:54 |
| robitaille | Hi Burgundavia imbrandon | 06:54 |
| ajmitch | you & who else? | 06:54 |
| imbrandon | me and giskard and fabio | 06:54 |
| Burgundavia | it is bloody sad how many of you this is taking | 06:54 |
| imbrandon | Burgundavia: its REALLY crackfull | 06:55 |
| imbrandon | we have each caught coutless errors | 06:55 |
| ajmitch | imbrandon: fabio? | 06:55 |
| imbrandon | and i'm sure there will be more in the first month or so | 06:55 |
| imbrandon | s/i// | 06:55 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch: typo | 06:55 |
| ajmitch | Burgundavia: it is excellent software! ;) | 06:55 |
| Burgundavia | so excellent we are going to install it by default | 06:56 |
| Burgundavia | lovely | 06:56 |
| ajmitch | of course | 06:56 |
| ajmitch | now drink up, you'll need it | 06:56 |
| imbrandon | heh and have binary drivers :) /me ducks | 06:57 |
| imbrandon | Burgundavia: this is one area i 100% agree with you on , we dont always see eye to eye on stuff but i think this one is kinda universal | 06:57 |
| imbrandon | just sad more dont see that | 06:57 |
| Burgundavia | some don't realize what is supportable and what is not | 06:58 |
| Burgundavia | ok, the forums depress me | 06:59 |
| === ajmitch is happy that people working on free nvidia drivers have got things drawing on the screen | ||
| Burgundavia | ajmitch: you serious? rock | 06:59 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch: kick ass | 07:00 |
| ajmitch | yeah, I've just done my read of the forums & got thoroughly demotivated :) | 07:00 |
| ajmitch | imbrandon: early days yet, though | 07:00 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch: yea but thats still good | 07:00 |
| plugwash | i presume by drawing things you mean drawing things using the cards 3D features? | 07:00 |
| Burgundavia | the people in the Feisty forum are posting all kinds of crackish ideas, which is ok | 07:00 |
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| Burgundavia | but then they all self reinforce each others bad ideas | 07:00 |
| Burgundavia | which is not | 07:00 |
| === plugwash was under the impression that there was already a free 2D driver for nvidia cards | ||
| imbrandon | my main main thing is that nv and ati say they cant opensource the drivers even if they wanted to, BUT why dont they atleaste provide spec's | 07:01 |
| imbrandon | plugwash: their is | 07:01 |
| imbrandon | nv | 07:01 |
| Burgundavia | plugwash: it is written by nvidia and is quite unreadable | 07:01 |
| ajmitch | plugwash: yes, the 2d driver is fairly crap & obfuscated | 07:01 |
| ajmitch | I'm talking about things drawing with glxgears | 07:01 |
| Burgundavia | ajmitch: are you talking 3d stuff? | 07:02 |
| ajmitch | 11:22 < darktama> hmm, glxgears *is* being rendered.. just very very very small :) you can just see tiny moving red, green and blue bits if you rotate the gears a bit | 07:02 |
| ajmitch | yes, I am | 07:02 |
| imbrandon | heheh nice | 07:02 |
| === ajmitch has learnt a lot more about nvidia cards by being involved on the edge of the project | ||
| Burgundavia | now is Mark wanted to use some of his money to solve this issue, that would rock | 07:04 |
| imbrandon | Burgundavia: yea | 07:04 |
| Burgundavia | imagine if Canonical had one wireless and one graphics card driver on staff | 07:04 |
| Burgundavia | not a huge burden, but it would go a long way | 07:04 |
| ajmitch | I don't know how much it would help | 07:05 |
| Burgundavia | if you cycled people out on contact, it probably would | 07:06 |
| imbrandon | ok ajmitch last package just finished building and i'm copying to a temp webserver for you to grab, i installed and ran them ok, if you say they atleaste install i'll upload them , there is still a few things i would like to clean up but i'll do that on secondary uploads and such, atleaste the crack is mostly cleaned out now | 07:06 |
| ajmitch | Burgundavia: ? | 07:07 |
| imbrandon | wow | 07:07 |
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| Burgundavia | ajmitch: if you hired an nvidia hacker for a bit, until they reached a certain level, etc | 07:07 |
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| ajmitch | Burgundavia: the problem is attracting the rare people who have the time, abilty & know-how | 07:08 |
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| Burgundavia | ajmitch: understandable | 07:08 |
| === Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log | ||
| === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #ubuntu-motu | ||
| === Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation | Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU | Feisty open for uploads | ||
| === Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Hobbsee at Sun Nov 26 08:57:48 2006 | ||
| === #ubuntu-motu [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | ||
| (fabo/#ubuntu-motu) where's aquamarine :D not finished yet !!! | 10:43 | |
| (Amaranth/#ubuntu-motu) fabo: It hasn't actually been released | 10:43 | |
| (fabo/#ubuntu-motu) i know it's just a joke ;) | 10:43 | |
| fabo | and yes you can backport them as is | 10:45 |
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| ajmitch | hi Yagisan | 10:47 |
| Yagisan | G'day ajmitch | 10:48 |
| Yagisan | need to re-install my edgy boxes soon | 10:49 |
| ajmitch | but edgy is stable & wonderful | 10:49 |
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| Yagisan | ajmitch, wonderful - yeah - but need to - er - repartition my raid array | 10:54 |
| ajmitch | & why does that require a reinstall? | 10:58 |
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| pirast | i have a question, i patched a package in universe some time ago, what is the best practice in order to enable it to appear in a new version? | 11:04 |
| pirast | asking for a sync again and patching it after upstream version freeze again? | 11:04 |
| ajmitch | or you merge it now | 11:04 |
| ajmitch | rather than leaving it unpatched | 11:05 |
| ogra | is it on merges.ubuntu.com ? | 11:05 |
| ogra | mom might have done the work for you already ;) | 11:05 |
| pirast | that sounds nice :-) | 11:05 |
| pirast | i will have a look | 11:06 |
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| pirast | nope :-( does not seem so | 11:08 |
| ogra | what is it ? | 11:08 |
| pirast | dvdrip | 11:09 |
| ajmitch | ah, that was not originally from debian, was it? | 11:09 |
| fdoving | who do i poke to make a schedutils sync with debian? (automatic that is). | 11:09 |
| pirast | nope, debian-multimedia :-( | 11:09 |
| Fujitsu | fdoving: If it has no Ubuntu changes, it'll be synced within a couple of days. | 11:09 |
| ajmitch | fdoving: since it's modified in ubuntu, someone needs to merge any changes | 11:10 |
| ajmitch | or I see that you made the last changes.. | 11:10 |
| Fujitsu | We seem to have a new upstream version in Ubuntu... | 11:10 |
| ajmitch | so file a sync request on malone, details are on the DeveloperResources wiki page | 11:10 |
| fdoving | ajmitch: can the ubuntu changes silently die? - the debian package is way better. | 11:11 |
| ajmitch | then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors | 11:11 |
| ajmitch | if they're really not needed, and the orig.tar.gz is the same, then yes | 11:11 |
| ajmitch | make sure you mention that in the bug you file | 11:11 |
| fdoving | I already have a bugreport, i'll subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors. | 11:12 |
| pirast | other example is pgadmin3, which is in ubuntu | 11:12 |
| pirast | and was synced from debian | 11:12 |
| pirast | btw, do we already know if thunderbird will be renamed in ubuntu? because if not, it will shoot some plugin packages in universe.. | 11:13 |
| Fujitsu | pirast: It is unlikely that it will be renamed here as well... | 11:14 |
| Fujitsu | This will increase delta with Debian, but we'll have to live with that. | 11:14 |
| pirast | :-( that's bad.. I fixed enigmail-locales in Edgy.. and it was hard work (renaming and replacing with sed) | 11:15 |
| imbrandon | hrm i wonder if there are gonna be any archive admins on today ( to process the NEW queue ) | 11:17 |
| ajmitch | unlikely | 11:18 |
| ajmitch | given that they're all in UK/Europe, and it's sunday | 11:18 |
| imbrandon | yea | 11:18 |
| === imbrandon sulks | ||
| imbrandon | i wanted to try it on my lappy but really dident want to compile it again | 11:18 |
| imbrandon | but i guess i will | 11:19 |
| ajmitch | beryl? | 11:19 |
| imbrandon | yea | 11:19 |
| ajmitch | but you had i386 packages? | 11:19 |
| imbrandon | lappy is ppc | 11:19 |
| ajmitch | ah yes | 11:19 |
| ajmitch | one of those | 11:19 |
| imbrandon | :) | 11:19 |
| ajmitch | do I care enough to install beryl stuff on the laptop again? | 11:20 |
| imbrandon | dosent seem TOO bad on my desktop | 11:20 |
| ajmitch | runs mostly fine on the desktop, except for a few nasty bugs | 11:20 |
| imbrandon | yea i have a few "what window should be on top" annoyances | 11:20 |
| imbrandon | that seems to be the main things | 11:20 |
| imbrandon | and alt tab seems iffy at best | 11:21 |
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| ajmitch | I've gone back to metacity already | 11:21 |
| imbrandon | but over all its not near as bad as i thought | 11:21 |
| fdoving | .. and beryl doesn't work well with two monitors :] | 11:21 |
| ajmitch | fdoving: which is what I have | 11:21 |
| fdoving | me too. | 11:21 |
| imbrandon | i wont till next month :( | 11:21 |
| pirast | i have another question: when an archive admin syncs a package from a debian-like repository, will it be autosynced then? | 11:21 |
| === imbrandon is buying a new system next month , yay | ||
| fdoving | might work for you, but for me and the open ati drivers, it didn't work well. | 11:22 |
| Amaranth | iirc all problems with that are now in the plugins and most of them have been fixed | 11:22 |
| ajmitch | pirast: I don't think so | 11:22 |
| Amaranth | but only in SVN, of course | 11:22 |
| pirast | ajmitch, thanks | 11:22 |
| Amaranth | as of about 3 days ago, i think | 11:22 |
| Amaranth | (multihead) | 11:22 |
| ajmitch | imbrandon: since your little amd64 just isn't good enough... | 11:22 |
| imbrandon | fdoving: thats what my lappy uses , the open ati drivers | 11:22 |
| fdoving | imbrandon: we have the same :) | 11:22 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch: hehe i'm gonna buy a 4 core ( 2x dual core ) amd i think | 11:23 |
| fdoving | works OK without extra monitor. | 11:23 |
| Amaranth | last time i tried compiz on ppc with the ati driver it all blew up | 11:23 |
| ajmitch | imbrandon: yeah, we all hate you, that's ok | 11:23 |
| Amaranth | of course that was right after dapper came out | 11:23 |
| Amaranth | problems with the driver, i guess | 11:23 |
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| imbrandon | Amaranth: what xorg magic do i have to do to my lappy to get bery to run | 11:23 |
| imbrandon | beryl | 11:23 |
| imbrandon | opensource ati | 11:24 |
| imbrandon | ( no i'm not loading the binary driver ) | 11:24 |
| Amaranth | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BerylOnEdgy | 11:24 |
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| imbrandon | bah | 11:24 |
| imbrandon | :) | 11:24 |
| Amaranth | and the binary driver doesn't even work on ppc, does it? | 11:24 |
| imbrandon | dunno | 11:24 |
| imbrandon | 'never tried it | 11:24 |
| === ajmitch would rather use a free driver anyway | ||
| === imbrandon goes to dig out the laptop | ||
| imbrandon | ajmitch: me too | 11:25 |
| Amaranth | me too | 11:26 |
| === Amaranth wishes for nouveau | ||
| ajmitch | yeah | 11:26 |
| === ajmitch recompiles nouveau again | ||
| Amaranth | btw, did you know the only real maintainer of the nv driver is an nvidia employee who works on their linux driver? | 11:26 |
| === ajmitch needs dual-head though | ||
| ajmitch | yes, I know that | 11:26 |
| Amaranth | it's annoying | 11:27 |
| ajmitch | and that he won't accept patches for features | 11:27 |
| ajmitch | the nouveau driver is already better for 2d | 11:27 |
| Amaranth | of course he won't, that'd make the binary driver less useful :P | 11:28 |
| === Amaranth might have to try it | ||
| Fujitsu | Nouveau actually works? | 11:28 |
| Fujitsu | I thought it was still very unworking... | 11:28 |
| Amaranth | the day it gets good enough to run beryl without crashing for at least 12 hours is the day i start using it full time | 11:28 |
| ajmitch | it's rather useless for 3d | 11:28 |
| Amaranth | i suspect i have at least 6 months to wait | 11:29 |
| ajmitch | but the ddx component is based off the nv driver, with some deobfuscation | 11:29 |
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| ajmitch | the 2d driver does require you use the drm module, which can't be loaded at the same time as the binary nvidia module | 11:29 |
| Amaranth | they both want to own the same device, would that ever work? | 11:30 |
| ajmitch | it'd be nice if you could have 2 cards & have the modules own 1 each :) | 11:30 |
| Amaranth | and i want a pony | 11:30 |
| imbrandon | no pony for you | 11:31 |
| === ajmitch wonders if it's possible to get an nvidia pcie card that's not 16x | ||
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| ajmitch | maybe I should just do an imbrandon & get a whole new box ;) | 11:34 |
| ajmitch | get one of those geforce 8800 GTX cards | 11:34 |
| === Fujitsu wishes Intel would make non-integrated graphics cards. | ||
| === ajmitch has heard rumours that they will | ||
| ajmitch | they used to - I've got an old i740 agp card | 11:36 |
| imbrandon | ajmitch: hehe i figured that i got a new job i deserved a new computer ( but i still have to wait till next month ) | 11:36 |
| DarkMageZ | there's no point in them doing it. only a very very small handful of people want them to | 11:36 |
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| ajmitch | imbrandon: what quad-core cpu will you get? | 11:39 |
| giskard | morning | 11:39 |
| ajmitch | or just a dual-cpu, dual-core? | 11:39 |
| ajmitch | hi giskard | 11:39 |
| giskard | hello ajmitch | 11:39 |
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| imbrandon | giskard: all packages uploaded , with your mine and fabo's changes, its in the NEW queue and likely wont hit the archive untill monday afternoon when a archive admin can approve it | 11:45 |
| giskard | imbrandon, cool! | 11:46 |
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| imbrandon | ajmitch: i was thinking about getting dual amdx2 ( totaly 4 core, 2x dual core ) | 11:46 |
| imbrandon | not sure, yea i just know i want to get the best ootb amd system i can for about 2k next month | 11:47 |
| imbrandon | still looking and pricing stuff | 11:47 |
| imbrandon | any hints/tips ? | 11:48 |
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| ajmitch | problem with quad-core is that for any single task, it's limited to the speed of 1 core, so you need to do more in parallel | 11:51 |
| === ajmitch has no hints/tips, apart from it being a real good idea to do RAID | ||
| imbrandon | yea | 11:52 |
| imbrandon | hardware raid | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | man, these people talking about the nouveau driver, do they know how far it has to go? | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | not hardware RAID, unless you get a real expensive chipset | 11:52 |
| jsgotangco | hehehe | 11:52 |
| ajmitch | most consumer hardware RAID stuff sucks | 11:52 |
| jsgotangco | we lurve crack | 11:53 |
| imbrandon | ahh | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | proprietary on-disk formats, buggy firmware, you name it | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | with quad-core, you have more than enough power to handle software RAID | 11:53 |
| Amaranth | is +t set here? | 11:53 |
| ajmitch | Amaranth: no | 11:53 |
| === ajmitch does raid 5 with no problems on this slow old dual-core box :) | ||
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| StevenK | "slow old dual-core" hah | 11:58 |
| imbrandon | :) | 11:58 |
| === StevenK notes he doesn't trust software raid 5. | ||
| imbrandon | i would only do striping anyhow, and then backups | 11:58 |
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| StevenK | My /home is on RAID 1. | 11:59 |
| StevenK | Well, shared network /home. | 11:59 |
| imbrandon | yea | 11:59 |
| imbrandon | i tried that but i need a faster network | 11:59 |
| imbrandon | to make it worth it | 11:59 |
| StevenK | 100Mbit is too slow? | 11:59 |
| imbrandon | my lappys wireless is only b | 11:59 |
| imbrandon | so kinda sucks | 11:59 |
| StevenK | Ah. | 11:59 |
| imbrandon | nah for the wired its ok | 11:59 |
| StevenK | Don't do NFS over 11b. :-P | 12:00 |
| ajmitch | StevenK: why don't you trust software raid 5? | 12:00 |
| imbrandon | GAH , i killed X on my lappy | 12:00 |
| Amaranth | wait, shared network /home on a laptop? | 12:00 |
| imbrandon | Amaranth: sure, then you also have a local login for when your away from home | 12:00 |
| StevenK | ajmitch: I've lost over 30Gb of data to it, in 3 seperate situations, and it's hard to recover from, as opposed to RAID 1. | 12:00 |
| Amaranth | imbrandon: sounds annoying | 12:01 |
| === ajmitch notes that /usr/local is on RAID 0 for maximum speed & minimum safety | ||
| ajmitch | StevenK: impressive | 12:01 |
| ajmitch | StevenK: I've heard too many hardware raid horror stories as well :) | 12:01 |
| === StevenK nods. | ||
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| StevenK | I treat the MegaRAID cards at work a little carefully, but they're *expensive*. | 12:02 |
| ajmitch | all my compiling & stuff like that is on the 450GB RAID 0 | 12:02 |
| ajmitch | yeah, I can't quite afford one of those | 12:02 |
| ajmitch | hence why I was saying that consumer hardware raid generally sucks :) | 12:02 |
| === StevenK nods. | ||
| ajmitch | since it's often semi-software raid | 12:02 |
| StevenK | They're kinda nice, and kind of scary. :-) | 12:02 |
| ajmitch | hm, midnight, probably about bed time | 12:05 |
| ajmitch | work at 8:30 :) | 12:05 |
| Amaranth | 5:00 here | 12:06 |
| Amaranth | sunday, of course | 12:06 |
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| imbrandon | hahah looks like no beryl on my lappy for now http://federation.imbrandon.com/x-on-lappy.jpg | 12:07 |
| StevenK | Could your camera take a picture that's more blurry? | 12:08 |
| imbrandon | does that qualify as a BSOD ? | 12:08 |
| imbrandon | StevenK: haha we've been through this, it sucks | 12:08 |
| StevenK | Oh yeah, we have. | 12:08 |
| Amaranth | imbrandon: what'd you do? | 12:08 |
| Amaranth | and yeah, that's a BSOD for a regular user :) | 12:08 |
| imbrandon | added composite and some other things to xorg | 12:08 |
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| Amaranth | composite is on by default | 12:09 |
| Amaranth | and i don't think the other crackful options in that guide are needed | 12:09 |
| Amaranth | afaik it "just works" by installing beryl and running it | 12:09 |
| imbrandon | NOW you tell me, i asked what i needed | 12:09 |
| imbrandon | :) | 12:09 |
| Amaranth | i was going for what i thought was the safe answer :) | 12:09 |
| imbrandon | there is a reason i havent applied for the X maintainer at canonical :) I hate xorg.conf ( and X in general but there isnt anything better ) | 12:10 |
| imbrandon | hehe | 12:10 |
| ajmitch | Amaranth: thanks for the nouveau followup on the list ;) | 12:11 |
| Amaranth | imbrandon: I know some of those xorg.conf options are supposed to give something like 3x speed boosts for beryl | 12:11 |
| Amaranth | but i only have nvidia hardware so i can't confirm | 12:11 |
| === ajmitch only has nvidia & intel | ||
| ajmitch | & my intel-based laptop is nothing special | 12:12 |
| === StevenK has only Intel at the moment/ | ||
| ajmitch | though neither is the nvidia card | 12:12 |
| StevenK | s/\//./ | 12:12 |
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| StevenK | I wanted to get a Nvidia PCI-E card with my tax refund, but that didn't work out. | 12:12 |
| imbrandon | i have intel in the computer i use all the time, and ati in the lappy and nvida in the amd64 | 12:12 |
| imbrandon | but i never use the amd64 in gui mode | 12:13 |
| ajmitch | why not? | 12:13 |
| imbrandon | it has a crappy monitor, and i just generaly hate that computer | 12:13 |
| imbrandon | so i use it via ssh to build on | 12:13 |
| StevenK | imbrandon: I'm typing this on an Edgy amd64 machine. | 12:13 |
| imbrandon | :) | 12:13 |
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| imbrandon | i'm typing on a feisty x86 :) | 12:14 |
| StevenK | I'm sticking to running feisty in chroots. | 12:14 |
| Hobbsee | wuss! :P | 12:14 |
| === Amaranth is running feisty as his main install on his only computer | ||
| === ajmitch is sticking to running feisty everywhere, no more edgy | ||
| Amaranth | hell, it's my only install | 12:15 |
| === Fujitsu was running Feisty on his primary machine until about 24 hours ago. | ||
| ajmitch | I figure that if I don't see the breakage, I won't have the incentive to fix it | 12:15 |
| Amaranth | ajmitch: I just watch the forums to look for people complaining | 12:15 |
| Amaranth | If someone says "You idiots broke my computer again, learn how to program" I don't upgrade that day | 12:15 |
| StevenK | finalbeta: And then you forcibly downgraded? | 12:16 |
| Fujitsu | StevenK: YOu mean me? | 12:16 |
| StevenK | Er, yeah. | 12:16 |
| Fujitsu | Nope, I installed sid. | 12:16 |
| Fujitsu | Well, Etch, then upgraded. | 12:16 |
| StevenK | And that's an improvement? | 12:16 |
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| Fujitsu | I hadn't installed Debian in quite some time, I figured it was time for a change. | 12:17 |
| imbrandon | as long as it wasent SuSE /me ducks | 12:17 |
| jsgotangco | Fujitsu: +1 :) | 12:17 |
| imbrandon | Fujitsu: but you cant run the beryl crack now :) just teasin | 12:18 |
| === Fujitsu attacks imbrandon. | ||
| Amaranth | actually i think sid has packages | 12:19 |
| Amaranth | or will soon | 12:19 |
| imbrandon | yea the ones i just uploaded :) | 12:19 |
| imbrandon | giskard will upload them to sid in a few days :) | 12:19 |
| Amaranth | ah | 12:19 |
| === Fujitsu screams. | ||
| imbrandon | once some more of the bugs are fixed | 12:19 |
| Amaranth | i thought the XSF owned beryl | 12:20 |
| imbrandon | XSF ? | 12:20 |
| ajmitch | Amaranth: afaik, they do | 12:20 |
| minghua | there is compiz, not sure if it's owned by XSF though | 12:20 |
| ajmitch | imbrandon: X strike force, maintainers of X in debian | 12:20 |
| minghua | imbrandon: X Strike Force | 12:20 |
| imbrandon | ah | 12:20 |
| ajmitch | so giskard may get in trouble if he uploads while ignoring an ITP | 12:20 |
| Amaranth | and they, uh, hate cdbs | 12:21 |
| ajmitch | I don't blame them | 12:21 |
| giskard | imbrandon, beryl will not go in unstable until etch is released.. | 12:22 |
| imbrandon | good | 12:22 |
| Amaranth | one line make files backed by magic scripts, what's not to like? :) | 12:22 |
| === Amaranth would still rather use it then jump through hoops with debhelper | ||
| minghua | if you can reduce the X packages' rules file to one line, sure | 12:26 |
| minghua | ;-) | 12:26 |
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| rgl | hi | 12:36 |
| fabo | giskard: beryl can go in experimental, when shwan will decide to cooperate ... | 12:40 |
| fabo | shawn | 12:40 |
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| imbrandon | gah it ftbfs on ppc too | 12:42 |
| giskard | imbrandon, amen ;) | 12:42 |
| === imbrandon wonders why its looking for /usr/include/asm-i386/*.h | ||
| imbrandon | on ppc | 12:42 |
| StevenK | Because it's build system doesn't know any better. | 12:43 |
| giskard | willubuntu support beryl? | 12:43 |
| imbrandon | yea , ajmitch already found that out on amd64 | 12:43 |
| imbrandon | bah , i'm tired of messing with it for tonight | 12:44 |
| === imbrandon goes to fix something in kde | ||
| StevenK | imbrandon: What, "everything" ? :-P | 12:45 |
| apokryphos | giskard: presumably that hasn't been decided yet. Beryl or compiz. | 12:45 |
| giskard | ? | 12:45 |
| apokryphos | I think we're waiting till the TB decides, right? | 12:46 |
| giskard | apokryphos, ahhhhh stupid me, what i wanted ask is: will ubuntu support ppc? | 12:46 |
| imbrandon | they said at feature freeze time what ever one is "less buggy" | 12:46 |
| apokryphos | I think that hasn't been decided yet too :P | 12:46 |
| imbrandon | giskard: yes | 12:46 |
| imbrandon | for now | 12:46 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: really? | 12:46 |
| StevenK | I suspect PPC will be revisited for feisty+1 | 12:47 |
| apokryphos | if they're leaning that way I'd imagine it'd end up being compiz | 12:47 |
| StevenK | (Dear me, it sounds so strange saying that already.) | 12:47 |
| imbrandon | StevenK: hehe | 12:47 |
| Hobbsee | heh | 12:47 |
| imbrandon | mostly because IBM is getting ready to push power cell workstations afaik , but i'm not 100% | 12:48 |
| StevenK | Apple may have dropped PPC, but the rest of the world hasn't let go yet. | 12:48 |
| imbrandon | yup | 12:48 |
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| DarkMageZ | doesn't the xbox360 run ppc? | 12:50 |
| imbrandon | yea , so does the wii and the ps3 | 12:50 |
| imbrandon | all 3 run power arch | 12:51 |
| Simon80 | the diff is how many, lol | 12:51 |
| DarkMageZ | i can't wait to run osx on my new xbox 360 :) | 12:51 |
| imbrandon | your more likely to run linux than osx :) | 12:52 |
| imbrandon | osx wont have the drivers for the hardware | 12:52 |
| imbrandon | ( e.g. no sata support ) | 12:52 |
| StevenK | Bullshit. OS X supports SATA. | 12:52 |
| Simon80 | yes, but specific SATA controller for that board? | 12:53 |
| StevenK | They just only have drivers for like 2 chipsets. | 12:53 |
| imbrandon | StevenK: it was an example, it dident for a long time | 12:53 |
| Simon80 | lol | 12:53 |
| imbrandon | i know i just loaded osx on my amd64 a few days ago with sata :) | 12:53 |
| imbrandon | but thats not the point :P | 12:54 |
| === imbrandon wonders if beryl will run on osx's X11 /me ducks | ||
| DarkMageZ | hackers have added drivers to osx86. maybe oneday someone will hackup ppc to run on xbox360 | 12:55 |
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| imbrandon | ( i know it wont ) | 12:55 |
| DarkMageZ | i'd love to have the cube & wobble on osx | 12:55 |
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| minghua | don't you already have the cube on OS X (I don't know exactly how cube looks on compiz/beryl though) | 01:04 |
| imbrandon | no | 01:05 |
| imbrandon | their isnt even any kinda of multi desktops in osx | 01:05 |
| imbrandon | let alone a cube :) | 01:05 |
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| StevenK | imbrandon: That'll be in .5 | 01:07 |
| minghua | well, I was talking about "switch user" on OS X | 01:07 |
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| imbrandon | minghua: that dosent compare heh, i can switch user on kde/gnome witout accerated X ( windows too ) | 01:15 |
| imbrandon | StevenK: yea i have read that | 01:15 |
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| minghua | imbrandon: but OS X uses a "cube effect" for switching user, doesn't it? | 01:18 |
| imbrandon | no | 01:18 |
| imbrandon | it does it exactly the same as windows/kde ( not sure how gnome does it ) | 01:18 |
| minghua | okay, then I probably don't know what "cube" in compiz/beryl is | 01:18 |
| imbrandon | you get a nice gdm/kdm looking screen , etc | 01:18 |
| imbrandon | cube is ...... hold on | 01:19 |
| minghua | I am talking about http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/fastuserswitching/ | 01:20 |
| bhale | Mac OS X Tiger animates transitions from one user to another. The current desktop becomes a texture placed on a 3D cube that rotates out of view while the incoming account desktop rotates into view on another side of the cube. | 01:20 |
| imbrandon | bhale: not on my osx 10.4.7 it dosent , i get a nice gdm looking screen just as nortmal | 01:21 |
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| minghua | imbrandon: I think there is an option for that | 01:21 |
| bhale | i cant map Tiger <> 10.4.7 | 01:22 |
| minghua | Tiger = 10.4.x | 01:22 |
| bhale | codenamed releases are assinine | 01:22 |
| StevenK | .4 | 01:22 |
| imbrandon | anyhow thats still not the same as switching desktops | 01:22 |
| imbrandon | tiger == 10.4.anything | 01:22 |
| imbrandon | minghua: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2200109535941088987 | 01:22 |
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| StevenK | Tiger is not 10.4.anything | 01:22 |
| StevenK | Oh wait, it is. I'm misremembering | 01:23 |
| minghua | sorry, don't have flash here | 01:23 |
| imbrandon | StevenK: ? | 01:23 |
| imbrandon | hehe | 01:23 |
| imbrandon | i was gonna say | 01:23 |
| imbrandon | minghua: you can get the avi download on the right | 01:24 |
| === imbrandon is looking through the system settings, if its an option its well hidden | ||
| imbrandon | but in either case, its not multi desktops in the linux sense | 01:25 |
| imbrandon | not untill 10.5 | 01:25 |
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| Hobbsee | imbrandon: i'm told that flaming in #beryl-dev is good, when beryl crashes | 01:27 |
| imbrandon | heh | 01:27 |
| minghua | I am not saying it's multi desktops, I am just saying the effect is there | 01:28 |
| minghua | and I seriously suspect compiz/beryl got the inspiration from apple | 01:29 |
| StevenK | Oh, no doubt. | 01:29 |
| imbrandon | :) | 01:30 |
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| StevenK | w | 01:36 |
| StevenK | Oops. | 01:36 |
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| sivang | howdy folks | 01:48 |
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| imbrandon | ello sivang | 01:51 |
| sivang | hey imbrandon | 01:54 |
| giskard | hello sivang | 01:54 |
| sivang | imbrandon: what's the big deal about the ubuntu open week? /me wonders what more news he had missed over the mrely thursday->sunday he's been away | 01:54 |
| sivang | hey giskard ! | 01:54 |
| === sivang hugs imbrandon and giskard | ||
| sivang | oh, ouch | 01:54 |
| === sivang reads about Mark's post to opensuse devel list | ||
| apokryphos | it's on /. now too I see | 01:55 |
| sivang | apokryphos: but ofcourse. Something like that would have never slipped off them :) | 01:56 |
| apokryphos | it took quite long to get on there though; I think they wanted to save it for the slashdot saturday ;-) | 01:56 |
| imbrandon | sivang: one post sums it all up for me http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03899.html | 01:56 |
| imbrandon | hrm i think its time for some food, bbiab | 01:57 |
| === apokryphos likes http://andreasjaeger.blogspot.com/2006/11/ubuntus-open-week-and-opensuse.html | ||
| bhale | sivang: the big deal was mark being an ass to the opensuse guys | 01:58 |
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| bhale | intended or not | 01:59 |
| imbrandon | i dident see anywhere in the email him being an ass, i see him inviting them to an event we have if they wanted to come | 01:59 |
| imbrandon | show me one line where he is an "ass" ? | 01:59 |
| === apokryphos chuckles at druid's response | ||
| apokryphos | imbrandon: the very first paragraph, I'd say :) | 02:00 |
| sivang | bhale: yeah, I'm now going over the threads | 02:00 |
| imbrandon | thats being an ass? it was reiterated by almost all the sues guys too "yea novel sucks blah blah blah" | 02:00 |
| bhale | the places he posted it and the way it was worded | 02:00 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: Not at all; in fact, the exact opposite | 02:00 |
| apokryphos | everyone's interpreting it at him trying to poach opensuse developers, and doing that on their list | 02:01 |
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| sivang | bhale: now what's so bad in what novell are doing with M$? | 02:01 |
| minghua | different people read the same words differently. can't we just settle at that? | 02:01 |
| imbrandon | suse poeple need to stop reading into it then what its not | 02:01 |
| bhale | if someone unknown wrote the same thing in the same place with the same words | 02:01 |
| apokryphos | that's certainly (i) spam, (ii) because of his words about Novell/suse it's trolling, and as Burgundavia says "it's just not done" | 02:01 |
| bhale | i think we would all agree it was a troll | 02:01 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: I think your presupposition that it's just suse people who are annoyed about this is completely erroneous | 02:01 |
| imbrandon | its a damn invatiation , no where in it, infact it explisitlyu states its NOT geared to them | 02:01 |
| apokryphos | check the ubuntu planet | 02:01 |
| apokryphos | you're telling me the invitation is not geared to them? | 02:02 |
| bhale | the title of the blog is "welcome opensuse developers" | 02:02 |
| bhale | not "welcome to ubuntu open week" | 02:02 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: i have seen planet , infact i have a post in the que to goto planet, that dosent make them any more right | 02:02 |
| apokryphos | the majority of responses on the plane to this, on the blogs, is against his actions | 02:02 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: it doesn't make them right but it does make your previous point kind of wrong | 02:02 |
| imbrandon | bhale: but he dident announce the open week, he anounced the invatation | 02:03 |
| imbrandon | jono did the open week | 02:03 |
| sivang | bhale++ , so is read here | 02:03 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: no | 02:03 |
| apokryphos | do you really think it's appropriate to go into another project's mailing list, and try to take their talented developers? | 02:03 |
| === Hobbsee contemplates removing edgy | ||
| imbrandon | apokryphos: no i dont but i think it perfectly acceptable to go there and invite them to an event they might be interested in | 02:03 |
| bhale | imbrandon: it is basically a copy of the mail to opensuse | 02:03 |
| bhale | http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03765.html | 02:03 |
| bhale | which is here | 02:03 |
| === sivang reads | ||
| imbrandon | apokryphos: and thats what it was if you see it as something else your ASSUMING | 02:04 |
| apokryphos | as most suse guys are saying, the Open Week is great. Looks like there's a lot of wonderful things going on. But it's pretty bad if this is geared around trying to win over some opensuse devs | 02:04 |
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| bhale | and again starts out by mentioning novell | 02:04 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: you've just flowered up what I just said :) | 02:04 |
| apokryphos | so spam is ok, right? | 02:04 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: and it wasent and never marketed that way | 02:04 |
| sivang | "Invitation to OpenSUSE developers" | 02:04 |
| bhale | it is just fine to invite them, and fedora I guess | 02:04 |
| bhale | you could ignore him, crazy old mark | 02:05 |
| bhale | this is more loaded than that | 02:05 |
| imbrandon | even in his email, he said "hey we're already doing this. you might like to come ... blah blah blah" you are ASSUMING it was geared to opensuse | 02:05 |
| bhale | It is in the title | 02:05 |
| bhale | and the first paragraph | 02:05 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: the fact that the week is taking place (in itself), is irrelevant. What everyone's annoyed at is the post to the list. | 02:05 |
| sivang | it is in the title, indeed | 02:05 |
| bhale | he didnt send it to Fedora, did he? | 02:05 |
| bhale | or Gentoo | 02:05 |
| === sivang is shocked | ||
| imbrandon | apokryphos: and that is just plain wrong to be | 02:05 |
| apokryphos | though I still maintain the blog itself is very cheeky. But hey, you should post anything you want on your blog | 02:06 |
| bhale | intentions aside, it is easily taken as a troll IMHO | 02:06 |
| sivang | could anyone please explain a stupid o' non native speaker what is meant by: | 02:06 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: how can you seriously maintain that then? Hey guys, come along to this event that we're doing and we'll teach you how to develop for ubuntu. Forget suse. | 02:06 |
| sivang | "go to great lengths to circumvent the patent | 02:06 |
| sivang | framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the | 02:06 |
| sivang | community. If you are an OpenSUSE " | 02:06 |
| sivang | are they patenting thier floss stuff to microsoft? | 02:06 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: your close but not quite there yet, stop adding to it | 02:06 |
| bhale | sivang: no | 02:07 |
| apokryphos | sivang: trying to dodge the GPL, basically. | 02:07 |
| bhale | sivang: i will msg you | 02:07 |
| sivang | bhale: thanks dude | 02:07 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: I'm quite sure I'm not :) | 02:07 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: it's very easy to flower up what he did; it's different to look at what he ACTUALLY did instead of what he's hoping to do | 02:07 |
| apokryphos | I'm not saying his intentions weren't noble or whatnot. But intentions are quite different to actions | 02:07 |
| === sivang is shocked by the plaeathora of comments it created on planet. what a way to PRing ;) | ||
| apokryphos | and it's actions that we more frequently hold people responsible of, since that's how you excercise your free moral agency | 02:08 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: no thats where your dead wrong, you are "assuming" and adding to it, i'm going by the exact words | 02:08 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: going for words will only tell you his intentions. Looking at what actually happened will... tell you what actually happened. | 02:08 |
| minghua | imbrandon: I think it's very arrogant to say other people are "wrong" to be annoyed | 02:08 |
| bhale | well | 02:09 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: exactly and he posted an invite to suse developers to join us in a week to learn about ubuntu, thats EXACTLY what happened | 02:09 |
| bhale | I am glad that imbrandon and other people are doing Open Week | 02:09 |
| imbrandon | nothing wrong with that | 02:09 |
| bhale | I should have said that | 02:09 |
| imbrandon | even if its posted to their list | 02:09 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: oh, so you're maintaining that he didn't want to try to poach those suse developers? | 02:09 |
| bhale | imbrandon: if he wanted to politely do that he should have left our loaded statements about the 'political' climate | 02:10 |
| imbrandon | does it say anywhere that he is? it said if they arent happy at home they might be interested, it dident say stop working on suse and come to us | 02:10 |
| bhale | and not singled out suse | 02:10 |
| === sivang wonders what's different in open week then regular get involved emails, irc sessions or anything alike | ||
| imbrandon | thats what people are adding | 02:10 |
| sivang | sounds a bit superficial to me | 02:10 |
| apokryphos | heh. Yeah, which is exactly poaching. "We can offer you a lot of great stuff here at Ubuntu; come join!!" | 02:10 |
| apokryphos | sivang: more sessions :P | 02:11 |
| imbrandon | bhale: he dident single out suse, thats the thing, he meerly invited them, the week is for everyone IT EVEN SAYS IN THE MAIL TO THE SUSE GUYS that its for everyone | 02:11 |
| imbrandon | gah | 02:11 |
| imbrandon | sorry for caps | 02:11 |
| sivang | apokryphos: right ;) | 02:11 |
| bhale | imbrandon: why didnt he send it to anyone else? | 02:11 |
| imbrandon | apokryphos: no its not | 02:11 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: why does that change anything? I never said the open week was just for suse guys | 02:11 |
| imbrandon | bhale: he dident have to as he dident orginise the even, jono sent it to everyone | 02:11 |
| apokryphos | the actual events of the open week are irrelevant, as I said. But hey :) | 02:11 |
| minghua | the fact that such mails are only sent to opensuse list, but not fedora, gentoo, debian lists, ARE singling out suse | 02:12 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: anyhow, see what Riddell said. Even though Mark is very explicit, Riddell is too | 02:12 |
| apokryphos | "Part of the reason this was organised is an attempt to entice openSUSE developers annoyed at the Novell/Microsoft deal over to Ubuntu." | 02:12 |
| imbrandon | yes and Riddell is wrong | 02:12 |
| imbrandon | i totaly disagree with him | 02:12 |
| apokryphos | I think I'll trust Mark's and Riddell's explicit words | 02:12 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: his title didn't say "welcome to ubuntu week!" it said "welcome, opensuse developers!" | 02:13 |
| imbrandon | bah your not going by marks explisit words, your reading more into it | 02:13 |
| imbrandon | thats the thing | 02:13 |
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| imbrandon | apokryphos: because that was his invatation | 02:13 |
| imbrandon | if you read the mail it says it s not just for them | 02:13 |
| imbrandon | EXPLISITLY | 02:13 |
| apokryphos | maybe we should work for some definitions here since then things will be clearer | 02:14 |
| apokryphos | otherwise we'll go in circles | 02:14 |
| imbrandon | bah no i got to run | 02:14 |
| imbrandon | but | 02:14 |
| apokryphos | ok, see you | 02:14 |
| bhale | I dont think I am going to change anyones mind, time for a shower | 02:14 |
| === bhale hugs imbrandon | ||
| imbrandon | it boils down to people adding into what they thing its about instead of reading the damn email | 02:14 |
| apokryphos | To be completely honest, the only people I see who advocate what Mark did (I won't include you in this category for now) are people who are genuinely blindly following anything that Mark says | 02:15 |
| apokryphos | Mark is a wonderful guy, and he hasn't slipped up very majorly before, so it's hard to see. But leaders can be wrong too; they need direction from the community just as much as a community needs direction too | 02:15 |
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| imbrandon | no i go against what i think is wrong and right, like bin driver, i have a strong stance against those | 02:15 |
| imbrandon | etc | 02:15 |
| Hobbsee | hey PriceChild | 02:16 |
| PriceChild | Hobbsee!!!! :D | 02:16 |
| apokryphos | if you're around later we can discuss it I guess, if you like, imbrandon :) | 02:16 |
| PriceChild | What're you doing up at this time Hobbsee? | 02:16 |
| imbrandon | and other things, i dont have time to get into it as i really must run, but no , i'm not a "blind" follower | 02:16 |
| apokryphos | see ya :) | 02:16 |
| Hobbsee | PriceChild: it's only just gone midnight... | 02:16 |
| imbrandon | later :) | 02:16 |
| apokryphos | imbrandon: I know, I excluded you from the set :P | 02:16 |
| === imbrandon hugs everyone | ||
| Hobbsee | and installing xen, to answer the question | 02:16 |
| PriceChild | Hobbsee ah ok thought it was past 1.... | 02:16 |
| Hobbsee | nope | 02:17 |
| PriceChild | Hobbsee: how was k? | 02:17 |
| === Hobbsee hugs imbrandon | ||
| PriceChild | *work? | 02:17 |
| elkbuntu | cya imbrandon | 02:17 |
| Hobbsee | was okay | 02:17 |
| === apokryphos punches imbrandon | ||
| apokryphos | :P | 02:17 |
| PriceChild | gd gd | 02:17 |
| imbrandon | lol | 02:17 |
| sivang | whawo | 02:21 |
| sivang | this is amazing | 02:21 |
| sivang | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html | 02:21 |
| === apokryphos chuckles | ||
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| gnomefreak | not sure if amazing was the word i was looking for :( | 02:32 |
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| admin123 | that's a good decision, freedom vs user experience. Although I can't seem to see how it' violates ubuntus philosophy | 02:43 |
| sivang | who's JPR and where can I read about his critique of canonical? | 02:44 |
| apokryphos | sivang: where's that mentioned? | 02:50 |
| apokryphos | admin123: some people think that, as mentioned on ubuntu.com, Ubuntu only includes proprietary drivers when it's absolutely necessary | 02:50 |
| apokryphos | so that if accelerated-x and desktop effects aren't necessary, then these shouldn't be included in Ubuntu, on the CD | 02:50 |
| admin123 | well, the packages could be on cd like they are being availble on repository, so that the user can deside for the user itself. | 02:51 |
| sladen | sivang: it's in response to sabdfl's somewhat risque recruiting exercise on the opensuse list weighing in on patents | 02:51 |
| admin123 | even by warning | 02:52 |
| sladen | sivang: the response from the opensuse was been surprisingly restrained | 02:52 |
| apokryphos | admin123: it could, but some people think that violates Ubuntu's Philosophy | 02:52 |
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| sladen | yes, perhaps it violates the philosophy, the legal technicalities are however incorrect | 02:53 |
| admin123 | I can't see how it violates ubuntu philosophy. If that was the case then flashplugin-nonfree should be removed also etc.. etc.. This issue has come up with debian wayback, (removing non-free from repository) but it's just not worth it, because of lost of users. | 02:53 |
| admin123 | ubtil there is a good replacement | 02:54 |
| apokryphos | admin123: the flash plugin is not on the cd | 02:54 |
| admin123 | but this concern's the philosophy right? | 02:54 |
| gnomefreak | the things are like l-r-m that are installed from cd that make people think it breaks the ubuntu way | 02:54 |
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| bhale | lrm has been installed for years, i thought | 02:55 |
| bhale | with binary kernel drivers | 02:55 |
| sladen | yes. | 02:55 |
| bhale | and blobs | 02:55 |
| apokryphos | "We include this software because it is essential in order for Ubuntu to run on certain machines - typical examples are the binary drivers that some video card vendors publish, which are the only way for Ubuntu to run on those machines." | 02:55 |
| sladen | avoid binary blobs if possible; but if people are going to need to do it, then make it easy for them | 02:55 |
| apokryphos | the next statement is stronger "By default, we will only use open source software unless there is simply no other way to install Ubuntu." | 02:56 |
| gnomefreak | the problem there is its not needed by default its just the linux-image-* (i think thats the meta) that installs it for you. | 02:56 |
| apokryphos | I think they meant not use ;-) | 02:56 |
| admin123 | hehe | 02:56 |
| sivang | sladen: I see , so that's probably what everybody refers to as the "satiric" response on -devel ? | 02:56 |
| bhale | i am much more concerned about my wifi card working than opengl | 02:56 |
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| apokryphos | sivang: right | 02:57 |
| bhale | i would happily sell my soul for my intel card to keep working out of the box with the binary thingamagig | 02:57 |
| sladen | sivang: yes, probably best to resist the urge to reply. | 02:57 |
| gnomefreak | now i do believe ndiswrapper needs to be included in default install for those users that need it but thats a long shot of that happening | 02:58 |
| bhale | ndiswrapper goes far beyond 'binary blob/driver' | 02:58 |
| bhale | and you still need networking to get the stupid windows driver anyway | 02:58 |
| sivang | sladen: I was not going to reply anyway, I'm not interested on adding to this, it's just odd to open up the online "newspapers" and find out about this :) | 02:59 |
| gnomefreak | i know but its still closed source | 02:59 |
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| sladen | sivang: I think it made slashdot | 03:01 |
| apokryphos | today, yeah | 03:02 |
| gnomefreak | seems like everything we do ends up on slash or digg | 03:03 |
| apokryphos | the painful limelight 8) | 03:03 |
| gnomefreak | :) | 03:04 |
| sivang | sladen: right, this aien't gonna do us any good as a commnity or as a project | 03:04 |
| gnomefreak | i never really rea them its always someone saying something stupid in channel and they tell me where they saw it | 03:04 |
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| sladen | sivang: it might be worth expressing that to them who wrote it | 03:09 |
| bhale | meh, it has been going on for as long as i have been reading (6 years?0 | 03:10 |
| bhale | if there is a sensational story, it is going up | 03:10 |
| bhale | you should feel lucky that normally the slashdot community is largely positive towards ubuntu | 03:11 |
| sivang | bhale++ , it's hard to make it to their hearts from what I've seen. | 03:11 |
| sivang | e.g., noe easily convicned or acceptive | 03:11 |
| === gnomefreak personally doesnt think mark meant any disrespect in his post. i think people take it as read though | ||
| sivang | gnomefreak: fact is that many have caught it the wrong way, although it was probably with innocent of the wording, it could take long to fix what this can do | 03:13 |
| gnomefreak | but i also believe if opensuse was more mature than us in there eyes they would have let it go not respond with the bs they did. (mature for lack of a better word) | 03:13 |
| === sivang wonders whom he needs to talk to to include something about hubackup in he Open Week | ||
| sivang | I want to try to get some more people to hack on it | 03:14 |
| gnomefreak | this may never be fixable just forgotten | 03:14 |
| sivang | gnomefreak: indeed, which is a pity | 03:15 |
| sivang | gnomefreak: because really, Mark is great and this is only a slip of tounge AFAICT | 03:15 |
| gnomefreak | jdong i think | 03:15 |
| gnomefreak | i agree | 03:15 |
| bhale | you mean jono | 03:15 |
| gnomefreak | yeah | 03:15 |
| gnomefreak | ty | 03:15 |
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| admin123 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Optimization?highlight=%28Optimization%29 | 04:19 |
| admin123 | nice | 04:19 |
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| sivang | hmm, reading through http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html , it seems we will at least get the ability to interchangeably use OO and Office content.. | 04:29 |
| sivang | bhale: it seems they are going to co-operate on mono , .NET and work together to create better integration of the two technologies, how is that bad? | 04:35 |
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| Adri2000 | why does colormake appear in updated merges at http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ? 0.2-4.2 in debian and 0.2-4.2ubuntu1 in feisty | 04:51 |
| sivang | Adri2000: are there any ubuntu specific changes? | 04:59 |
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| Adri2000 | sivang: yes, there is a small patch that is not in debian | 05:00 |
| sivang | Adri2000: so sombody probably had to merge the package, as in take the new version from debian and reapply the patch making sure it builds and runs fine. | 05:01 |
| sivang | Adri2000: that's probably the reason that it's on updated mergers, if not, than there might be a MoM slip off | 05:01 |
| Adri2000 | sivang: it is already merged! | 05:01 |
| sivang | Adri2000: you mean, the patch si alredy in debian? | 05:01 |
| geser | Adri2000: I assume mom is a little bit out of date | 05:01 |
| sivang | or that :) | 05:02 |
| Adri2000 | sivang: no, but I merged this package, bug 73200 | 05:02 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 73200 in colormake "[Merge] colormake 0.2-4.2ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/73200 | 05:02 |
| geser | it lists 0.2-4ubuntu1 and you uploaded 0.2-4.2ubuntu1 | 05:02 |
| Adri2000 | yes, 0.2-4ubuntu1 is the previous version in Ubuntu, but it was not uploaded by me | 05:02 |
| geser | perhaps a bug in mom | 05:03 |
| Adri2000 | I think so | 05:03 |
| geser | it seems to run a new version | 05:03 |
| geser | the (lp) link was not there a few days ago | 05:03 |
| Adri2000 | who is in charge of MoM? | 05:05 |
| gnomefreak | DaD? | 05:05 |
| gnomefreak | sorry had to | 05:05 |
| Adri2000 | :P | 05:05 |
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| === admin123 chuckles | ||
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| adrian3 | hi, I made my first package on revu, and I have a question: how long takes a package to get in the universe repo ? (how long takes to receive the 2 votes ?) | 06:24 |
| crimsun | adrian3: no ETA. Some packages languish for months, years. | 06:25 |
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| crimsun | adrian3: you'll probably want to ask in the channel every couple weeks. | 06:26 |
| bhale | sivang: it is bad because of the patent indemnification allowing novell to ship "open" code that no one else can use | 06:26 |
| crimsun | adrian3: alternately, try to get the source package into Debian, and it'll be synced in (at the latest, in the next Ubuntu devel cycle) automatically | 06:27 |
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| adrian3 | crimsun: thanks for the answer | 06:32 |
| crimsun | we'll have another REVU day sometime | 06:33 |
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| Q-FUNK | Bug #2620 | 06:50 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 2620 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf broken after upgrade to Breezy" [Medium,Needs info] http://launchpad.net/bugs/2620 | 06:50 |
| Q-FUNK | this is getting old and, as far as I know, is fixed for everyone. should I close it? | 06:51 |
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| crimsun | Q-FUNK: yes, please | 06:54 |
| Q-FUNK | crimsun: thanks. | 06:58 |
| Q-FUNK | do we have a procedure for requesting backports to 606 LTS ? | 06:59 |
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| bhale | To request a package to be backported to, for example, dapper-backports, please file a bug in [WWW] Malone | 06:59 |
| bhale | assign to 'ubuntu-backporters' | 07:00 |
| bhale | subscribe rather | 07:00 |
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| Q-FUNK | against the package to be back-ported and assigned to ubuntu-backporters ? | 07:00 |
| bhale | subscribed to backporters | 07:01 |
| bhale | against the package | 07:01 |
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| pianoboy3333 | Where can I get the latest libnautilus-burn and libnautilus-extension? | 07:50 |
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| ajmitch | morning | 08:33 |
| somerville32 | Good Morning! :D | 08:33 |
| sivang | morning ajmitch | 08:36 |
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| joejaxx | Good AfterMorningNightNoon | 09:40 |
| joejaxx | to all timezones | 09:40 |
| toitoine | Good night here :-) | 09:40 |
| toitoine | is there anyone that could give me a hint for a .schemas problem | 09:41 |
| toitoine | I don't manage to make it install | 09:42 |
| toitoine | in the good directory | 09:42 |
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| XiXaQ | will Sun Java be included as default now that Sun has opened it and made it available? | 09:43 |
| === ajmitch wonders what 'included as default' means | ||
| ajmitch | in main? on the cd? | 09:43 |
| XiXaQ | included in main and installed by default? | 09:43 |
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| ajmitch | XiXaQ: why would it need to be installed by default? java is large | 09:45 |
| ajmitch | the only reason things like that get installed by default is if we ship apps on the cd that need it | 09:45 |
| XiXaQ | Java is installed by default now, right? | 09:46 |
| ademan | would someone be willing to repackage an upstream update for the eclipse-cdt for me? I swear to you i've been trying, but i can't get it to work, even better if you could give me a bash log so i can see how you did it. thanks | 09:46 |
| ademan | i'd be happy to provide what i've been (trying) to do | 09:47 |
| tarball | Is the version of 'unionfs' in edgy broken, the version in the repository is 1.0.14 which is for the 2.4 kernel?? | 09:47 |
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| Adri2000 | launchpad is laggy... | 10:18 |
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| engla | hello. I posted a package I authored on revu. It's pretty stable and tested by me and others in dapper and edgy. Is there a chance that it can make it for universe in feisty? | 10:20 |
| phanatic | Adri2000: now it's dead :) | 10:22 |
| Adri2000 | ^^ | 10:22 |
| Adri2000 | engla: yeah, you just have to wait that a motu review it | 10:23 |
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| Adri2000 | engla: you can give the link here | 10:23 |
| engla | okay, great. I was wondering when the "deadline" for feisty was | 10:23 |
| engla | its http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3517 | 10:23 |
| Adri2000 | the deadline is the universe freeze, but the date doesn't seem to be defined yet, according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule | 10:25 |
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| joejaxx | February :D | 10:26 |
| engla | ah ok | 10:26 |
| Adri2000 | joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule it is cleary stated here | 10:27 |
| Adri2000 | engla: there is no .diff.gz on revu | 10:27 |
| toitoine | hi here I'm making a package but my .schemas file goes into /usr/etc/ instead of /usr/share | 10:28 |
| engla | Adri2000: I didn't think there should be one. As I said, I'm the original author and the first packager | 10:28 |
| toitoine | I'm using dh_gconf | 10:28 |
| engla | so my tarball should be the original, thus no diff? | 10:28 |
| Adri2000 | engla: there is a diff for all non debian native packages, at least for the whole debian/ direcotry | 10:28 |
| Adri2000 | directory* | 10:28 |
| toitoine | anyone could help please ? | 10:29 |
| toitoine | as I understand it the .schemas file should go in /etc/gconf/schemas and dh_conf moves it | 10:29 |
| engla | hmm I don't know about this. the debian/ is in the orig tarball here. But that's right I think since this package is "original to ubuntu"; ie if I package it there is no upstream | 10:29 |
| toitoine | I'm right ? | 10:29 |
| engla | but I can check again | 10:29 |
| TheMuso | toitoine: Is it a package that uses the ./configure && make && make install method of building? | 10:30 |
| toitoine | TheMuso: no, autotools | 10:30 |
| TheMuso | But you do run the .configure script to prepare the apckage for compilation right? | 10:30 |
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| toitoine | TheMuso: yes it's run at the end of autoconf | 10:31 |
| TheMuso | Ok. YOu need to re-run it, and give it the correct paths to the various locations. | 10:31 |
| TheMuso | I don't know how one references the gconf dir. Have a look at another package in the archive that has gconf schemas and see what it does. | 10:31 |
| TheMuso | You need to pass it the --prefix=/usr --datadir=/usr/share --sysconfdir=/etc or something like that. | 10:32 |
| Adri2000 | engla: hmm, why whould it be only for ubuntu? | 10:32 |
| Adri2000 | engla: is it only useful in an ubuntu environment? | 10:32 |
| toitoine | TheMuso: ok, I'll try | 10:32 |
| toitoine | TheMuso: I'm giving --prefix=/usr | 10:33 |
| toitoine | but not --datadir=/usr/share | 10:33 |
| engla | Adri2000: nope, it's generally useful. But I am upstream and my original tarballs have always contained the debian/ directory. now I can accept that that is wrong | 10:33 |
| Adri2000 | engla: I suppose that the sources are available somewhere on a website? | 10:34 |
| Adri2000 | engla: and what is the license? | 10:34 |
| engla | sure, sec | 10:34 |
| engla | the website is below and the lic is GPL | 10:35 |
| engla | http://www.student.lu.se/~cif04usv/wiki/dragbox.html | 10:35 |
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| Adri2000 | engla: ok, so no, you shouldn't ship the debian/ directory in the original tarball | 10:35 |
| engla | I want to do that since that's "pre-packaging" it, even if it isn't in any distro (yet). So people can grab my sources and issue "dpkg-buildpackage .." | 10:36 |
| engla | so it's a service I think, and I don't see any harm in doing my general tarballs like that | 10:37 |
| engla | but.. I still could force the debian/ stuff to go into a diff, but I don't know how to do that yet | 10:37 |
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| toitoine | TheMuso: Thanks you VERY much (I've been searching during 3 hours :-) ) | 10:39 |
| Adri2000 | engla: when we want to package a program which ship a debian/ directory, we usually ask upstream to remove it | 10:39 |
| engla | ah | 10:39 |
| TheMuso | toitoine: Did it go into the right dir? If so, thats great news. | 10:39 |
| toitoine | TheMuso: yes it now goes in the right dir | 10:40 |
| TheMuso | toitoine: Great. | 10:40 |
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| engla | I'll ask myself to remove that and then go behind my back and add the same stuff again. ;-) | 10:42 |
| Adri2000 | :-) | 10:43 |
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| Adri2000 | I think someone should write a "Why is it bad to ship the debian/ directory in the upstream tarball" | 10:45 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: I second that because I'm reading your talk with engla and I really don't understand | 10:47 |
| toitoine | I'm making a software and I should keep original tarball and /debian directory separated | 10:47 |
| toitoine | only using /debian when doing a package ? That's it ? | 10:48 |
| Adri2000 | yes debian/ is for the packager, not upstream's work, even if sometimes upstream = packager | 10:49 |
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| toitoine | ok, if that's the rule :-) | 10:50 |
| engla | but please, write the text | 10:50 |
| engla | I think I found the base of my view on it from somewhere in the debian packager's guide | 10:51 |
| Adri2000 | the debian packager's guide saying that debian/ in upstream tarball is good? | 10:52 |
| engla | not like that no. :) I'm not sure that it mentions it, but I think it states that sometimes there is no diff if the package is original to debian | 10:53 |
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| engla | but perhaps that means "specific for debian" (my dragbox is actually in arch, so it's not specific) | 10:53 |
| Adri2000 | that's debian native package, and your program is not a debian native package | 10:54 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: sorry to insist but what's make a debian native package ? what's the difference if I'm upstream and packager ? | 10:57 |
| Adri2000 | a debian native package is for instance dpkg | 10:58 |
| Amaranth | debian native would be dpkg | 10:58 |
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| toitoine | not a .deb file you mean ? | 11:00 |
| Adri2000 | read http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2001/01/msg00191.html and the answers | 11:00 |
| toitoine | ok, thanks | 11:01 |
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| Adri2000 | nice to see that the last answer was written by Colin Watson (https://launchpad.net/people/kamion) and that was in 2001! :) | 11:02 |
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| toitoine | useful reading, should be in the "Docs to read to make a package" :-) | 11:05 |
| toitoine | ok, sorry to bother you again but I'm still having one last error : lintian is ok, but linda is still asking more :-) | 11:06 |
| toitoine | it's complaining about the changelog.gz which doesn't exist | 11:07 |
| toitoine | in fact the upstream changelog is "ChangeLog" | 11:08 |
| Adri2000 | toitoine: is it a native package here or not? :) | 11:08 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: it's mine, I can make it became what I want but I have users asking for an Ubuntu deb file :-) | 11:09 |
| Adri2000 | if it's native, there is only one changelog | 11:10 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: so solution should be to remove changelog in /debian ? | 11:10 |
| Adri2000 | no, there is always a debian/changelog, it is either a "packaging" changelog, either the "real" changelog (with the actual changes in the program) if it's a native package | 11:11 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: I'm getting it : since I've removed the "-1" on the numbering there's no reason to have a debian changelog, that's it ? | 11:12 |
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| toitoine | Adri2000: ok, reverse | 11:12 |
| Adri2000 | if you remove the -1, then it's native | 11:12 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: I should continue with "debianization", then put my /debian files in place | 11:13 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: so there should be 2 changelog but that will be coherent... | 11:13 |
| engla | heh I wonder one more thing too | 11:13 |
| LaserJock | hi guys | 11:13 |
| LaserJock | you look like you could use some help | 11:13 |
| engla | the lintian file on revu doesn't match mine of course. Mine produces no output for the source package | 11:13 |
| Adri2000 | toitoine: always debian/changelog, and if it's non native, a possible upstream changelog | 11:14 |
| Adri2000 | hi LaserJock | 11:14 |
| toitoine | Adri2000: quite simple when you're starting to understand :-) | 11:14 |
| Adri2000 | engla: yeah, lintian's revu is not up to date for feisty I think | 11:14 |
| engla | while the revu lintian complains about too high version for standards something (shoudl be fine I think), but also for something with arch-independent and dependend builddeps | 11:14 |
| toitoine | Thanks a lot for your help everyone | 11:15 |
| engla | (sorry for my sloppy writing there) | 11:16 |
| Adri2000 | engla: your program is python? | 11:17 |
| Adri2000 | +written in | 11:17 |
| engla | yes | 11:18 |
| Adri2000 | so your rules is wrong because it does binary-indep | 11:18 |
| Adri2000 | and you should follow the debian python policy | 11:18 |
| engla | I have to confess I don't know much about coupling autotools, python and debian packaging. but it works. | 11:18 |
| engla | hm, but why doesn't my local lintian tell me that? | 11:19 |
| Adri2000 | I'm not sure it is able to check all the things of the python policy | 11:19 |
| Adri2000 | http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy | 11:19 |
| Adri2000 | engla: also, in the changelog, distribution should be feisty instead of unstable, and the version is, IMO, wrong, should't be native :) | 11:20 |
| engla | oh well | 11:20 |
| engla | this is messy. All the debianization scripts are smart, but they leave small stamps of debian everywhere which you have to circumvent | 11:21 |
| engla | so my version next time will be 0.2.3-0ubuntu1 ? | 11:21 |
| engla | (now 0.2.3) | 11:22 |
| Adri2000 | yes, but when uploading your package to ubuntu for the first time, there should be only one changelog entry: "Initial release" | 11:22 |
| LaserJock | well, there doesn't *have* to be only 1 entry | 11:23 |
| engla | you know, this is confusing. I have to think like a whole distro or release team all by myself. | 11:23 |
| LaserJock | engla: ok, what's confusing you? let's go through it | 11:24 |
| LaserJock | engla: using lintian -i *.dsc gives you more info, btw | 11:25 |
| engla | well I think I am fine for now, I've got many things answered. It's confusing to be both upstream and packager and negotiate those :) | 11:26 |
| engla | lintian -i doesn't output anything extra in my case | 11:26 |
| engla | but I'm reading the python policy docs | 11:26 |
| LaserJock | engla: if you are upstream also I'd just recommend that you spilt the packaging from the source | 11:27 |
| engla | I will following this | 11:27 |
| LaserJock | everything you have to do to make a .deb should be in the debian/ folder and that shouldn't be included in the source tarball | 11:28 |
| engla | I'll have to keep the packaging versioned anyway and keep it in svn on gna.org anyway. Should I just keep the debian dir as a separate "module" there perhaps | 11:32 |
| LaserJock | yeah, that's a good idea | 11:32 |
| LaserJock | if you keep them together then any little change in the packaging will require a new release of your app's source | 11:33 |
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| Adri2000 | crimsun: err, the alternative build-dep isn't needed anymore? | 12:03 |
| crimsun | Adri2000: no, we have a transitional package. | 12:04 |
| Adri2000 | ok | 12:04 |
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