[12:15] <Fujitsu> Isn't it Herd, not Hord?
[12:16] <joejaxx> oh
[12:16] <joejaxx> Herd then
[12:16] <joejaxx> hello lophyte
[12:16] <joejaxx> :)
[12:18] <Fujitsu> Hm, LP really doesn't render well in elinks.
[12:18] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, the whole ajax thing would pretty much screw you over too, i would think
[12:20] <Fujitsu> elkbuntu: There's no AJAX in LP, AFAIK...
[12:20] <joejaxx> what is the standards and debhelper build depend for feisty?
[12:21] <joejaxx> 3.7.2.2 and 5.0.0?
[12:21] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Turn off columns/tables
[12:21] <TheMuso> I have no problem with it like that
[12:23] <joejaxx> anyone know?
[12:24] <elkbuntu> Fujitsu, fine then, whatever is the funky stuff that changes stuff without changing url
[12:25] <LaserJock> joejaxx: I'd keep it simple and go with 3.7.2 and 5.0
[12:26] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: LP uses plone I think
[12:26] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: you a kde'er?
[12:26] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, nto really, but i have a kde feisty on my laptop
[12:26] <Fujitsu> Console forever!
[12:28] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, is there a reason you ask?
[12:33] <LaserJock> elkbuntu: oh, I like to know who I can run to when I get in the KDE mood
[12:33] <LaserJock> ;-)
[12:34] <elkbuntu> ha
[12:46] <joejaxx> well the update is going
[12:48] <joejaxx> ? Unknown desktop package: mkisofs
[12:48] <joejaxx> ? Unknown desktop package: cdrecord
[12:48] <joejaxx> these are not in feisty?
[12:49] <LaserJock> let me see
[12:49] <LaserJock> I remember that coming up
[12:50] <[A] ndy80> admin123: ok, I'm reading the document you told me before: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#l1 but I can't understand.... do I have to use the reportbug tool to request a package to be included in debian?
[12:51] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: you don't have to but it is handy
[12:53] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: are there other ways to request a package to be included in debian?
[12:53] <LaserJock> by email
[12:54] <erik1397> Does anyone know whether the program Tovid will be in the feisty repos?
[12:55] <LaserJock> erik1397: I take it it isn't in feisty currently?
[12:56] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: ok, I'll try to use it but I think it's a bit complcated :)
[12:56] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: yep
[12:56] <joejaxx> LaserJock: cdrecord and mkisofs are on the ubuntu feisty seeds
[12:56] <joejaxx> hmm
[12:57] <LaserJock> erik1397: I see a tovid package is on REVU
[12:57] <erik1397> LaserJock: nope
[12:57] <LaserJock> erik1397: so it looks like it is being worked on
[12:57] <erik1397> LaserJock: where?
[12:57] <erik1397> o awesome
[12:57] <LaserJock> erik1397: revu.tauware.de
[01:00] <erik1397> awesome
[01:01] <erik1397> do you think it'll be in feisty though?  or do you think that it wont make it until feisty+1?
[01:01] <LaserJock> we're still pretty early in feisty
[01:01] <LaserJock> and it looks like jdong is doing it
[01:01] <ogra> extremely early
[01:01] <LaserJock> so I would imagine it should be in Feisty no problem
[01:02] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i wonder why it is doing that
[01:02] <LaserJock> ogra: you're alive!
[01:02] <joejaxx> skipping cdrecord and mkisofs
[01:02] <joejaxx> ogra: hello
[01:02] <erik1397> LaserJock: thanks for the good news
[01:02] <LaserJock> ogra: after reading your blog post I wondered if Poland had swallowed you
[01:03] <ogra> LaserJock, sure, i'll fly out on monday morning... if i'm alive afetr returning you can congratulate ;)
[01:03] <erik1397> you see, my most popular how-to in the ubuntu forums concerns that program, but installation for it is kinda tricky
[01:03] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: the output of reportbug is quite different from the output described in the document... for example it asks me the versione of the package, the problem with the package ecc...
[01:03] <LaserJock> ogra: haha, will do
[01:03] <[A] ndy80> like it was a real bug report
[01:03] <ogra> LaserJock, actually it's really nice here, we should have a conf here
[01:03] <erik1397> so having it in the repos would be awesome
[01:03] <[A] ndy80> there's no problem with the package, I just want to submit it :)
[01:03] <ogra> (apart from the fact that everything is made from pork)
[01:03] <erik1397> i guess i should just contact jdong for details, right?
[01:04] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: did you pick wnpp for the package?
[01:04] <ogra> (whats not pork is imported )
[01:04] <LaserJock> ogra: well, get Canonical to send me and I'll go ;-)
[01:04] <LaserJock> erik1397: yeah
[01:05] <erik1397> k
[01:05] <ogra> hehe, i'll work on it ... the wimen are *extrmely* beautiful, the beer is good, prices are very cheap, you just cant get a steak anywhere ...
[01:05] <joejaxx> lol steak
[01:06] <ogra> joejaxx, dont laugh ... after having pork for a week in *everything* you will understand :)
[01:06] <joejaxx> ogra: :)
[01:07] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: what is wnpp?
[01:07] <joejaxx> ogra: i whould how far poland is from the usa
[01:07] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: I just did reportbug --email username@domain.tld wnpp
[01:08] <[A] ndy80> like the document say to do
[01:09] <ogra> its still on CET ... (on the edge)
[01:09] <ogra> err CEST
[01:09] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: ok, and what did it ask you?
[01:10] <joejaxx> ogra: We could not calculate driving directions between New Jersey, USA and Poland. </quote> haha
[01:10] <ogra> haha
[01:10] <ogra> you couldnt calculate polish trasport either ;)
[01:10] <joejaxx> ;)
[01:10] <ogra> *transport
[01:11] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: Please enter the version of the package this report applies to (blank OK)
[01:11] <[A] ndy80> then...
[01:11] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: Please briefly describe your problem (you can elaborate in a moment; an empty response will stop reportbug). This should be a concise summary of what is
[01:11] <[A] ndy80> wrong with the package, ecc....
[01:14] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: look at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=397254 for an example of what to put
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 397254 in wnpp "RFP: 3gpwiz -- Convert almost any movie type to a format (3gp/mp4) for mobile phones" [Wishlist,Open] 
[01:14] <joejaxx> can anyone create an event at OpenWeek?
[01:14] <LaserJock> no
[01:14] <ogra> joejaxx, you should contact jono if you want to do anything
[01:14] <joejaxx> ok that is what i thought
[01:14] <LaserJock> you should talk to Jono if you want something
[01:16] <joejaxx> oh
[01:16] <joejaxx> i do not think my subject whould benefit anyone anyway haha
[01:19] <joejaxx> oh well
[01:19] <joejaxx> back to packaging
[01:26] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: mmm.... understanding how this utility works is harder than writing the entire application :(
[01:26] <zul> when is openweek again im too lazy to read the wiki right now
[01:27] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: what's it doing now?
[01:27] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: I'll try to publish somewhere my utility... then... if someone want to include it in debian/ubuntu, will have all my greetings ;)
[01:27] <LaserJock> zul: starts Monday
[01:27] <[A] ndy80> ah...
[01:27] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: it opened me a texteditor... but I don't know what to write inside.... packagename is set to wnpp
[01:27] <[A] ndy80> but it should contain my package name (smartfan)
[01:28] <[A] ndy80> then.. it told me that description was too long and I didn't specify the url where to find the package!
[01:28] <[A] ndy80> absurd....
[01:28] <[A] ndy80> I think they should have at least a web based submit tool
[01:28] <[A] ndy80> easier to use
[01:28] <[A] ndy80> else is a big waste of time
[01:29] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: this is debian we are talking about. They do everything via email
[01:29] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: this explain me a lot of things ;)
[01:30] <[A] ndy80> LaserJock: isn't possible to include a package in ubuntu that is not included in debian?
[01:32] <LaserJock> [A] ndy80: yes it is
[02:02] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[02:04] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock, how's it going?
[02:06] <LaserJock> bddebian: it's going
[02:06] <LaserJock> I actually got some code committed on an upstream
[02:06] <bddebian> Nice
[02:06] <LaserJock> I'm pretty happy about that
[02:06] <LaserJock> it should be included in a release this weekend
[02:07] <bddebian> Very cool.  What package?
[02:07] <_MMA_> LaserJock: ChemTools?
[02:07] <LaserJock> gchemutils
[02:08] <bddebian> Ah cool
[02:08] <LaserJock> I got to learn a little C++ and Glade
[02:08] <bddebian> Ugh, C++ scares me :-)
[02:08] <LaserJock> helped fix some bugs to do what I wanted
[02:08] <LaserJock> I feel kinda productive ;-)
[02:09] <bddebian> Heh, I wish I did
[02:16] <LaserJock> well, I won't let it go to my head ;-)
[02:43] <DarkMageZ> anyone know of a guide to learning c or c++ for those who get bored quickly?
[02:47] <LaserJock> DarkMageZ: find some C or C++ program you like and start coding?
[02:48] <DarkMageZ> yeah, but without understanding the code in the slightest first... that doesn't work
[02:49] <LaserJock> so then you go and learn what you need
[02:49] <LaserJock> do you know any other programing languages?
[02:53] <DarkMageZ> LaserJock, i knew alittle vb6
[02:58] <zul> ew evil
[02:58] <joejaxx> lol
[02:58] <joejaxx> well i just ported fluxbuntu-meta to feisty
[02:58] <joejaxx> even though feisty is doing some weird things repository wise
[02:58] <zul> vb6 is not exactly a programming language ;)
[02:59] <joejaxx> like not recognizing cdrecord and mkisofs
[03:00] <joejaxx> now i need to port the artwork package
[03:00] <joejaxx> and finish the settings package
[03:04] <LaserJock> DarkMageZ: well, then read through a quick C/C++ tutorial first :-)
[03:04] <LaserJock> joejaxx: excellent
[03:06] <gnomefreak> is ther an edgy-updates universe multiverse repo or just the main restricted
[03:06] <gnomefreak> joejaxx: thank you :)
[03:07] <joejaxx> gnomefreak: what did i do? lol
[03:07] <gnomefreak> fluxbuntu-meta
[03:07] <gnomefreak> ive been wanting that so bad
[03:07] <joejaxx> ah
[03:07] <joejaxx> you are most welcome
[03:07] <joejaxx> :)
[03:07] <LaserJock> gnomefreak: sure -updates, etc. are for all components
[03:08] <LaserJock> we have -proposed and -security too
[03:08] <gnomefreak> that maybe the issue thank you i will get him to see if it fixs it
[03:08] <gnomefreak> im thinking -proposed doesnt have ff updates in it
[03:09] <LaserJock> gnomefreak: what are you talking about?
[03:09] <gnomefreak> ff 2 keep crashing and im hoping its just an update issue
[03:09] <LaserJock> do you have flash 9?
[03:09] <gnomefreak> LaserJock: ive had a usr that has had issues with ff on edgy
[03:09] <LaserJock> I know linux mint had bad problems with FF crashing all the time
[03:10] <gnomefreak> he doesnt have flash at all i gave him flash 9 to replace his flash 7 and helped but still ended up core dumping
[03:10] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:10] <gnomefreak> spent over 5 hours on the user in the last couple of days
[03:10] <LaserJock> is there a bug report?
[03:10] <gnomefreak> it started as an automatix issue but still there after reinstalling
[03:10] <gnomefreak> not yet
[03:11] <gnomefreak> i want to be sure its not hd related first
[03:11] <joejaxx> hmm
[03:11] <joejaxx> why is ubuntu-artwork listed under gnome
[03:12] <gnomefreak> because it is gnome
[03:12] <gnomefreak> kubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-artwork
[03:13] <joejaxx> sudo apt-cache show kubuntu-artwork
[03:13] <joejaxx> W: Unable to locate package kubuntu-artwork
[03:13] <joejaxx> E: No packages found
[03:13] <joejaxx> hmm
[03:13] <LaserJock> they don't have an artwork packages
[03:13] <LaserJock> should be just kubuntu-default-settings
[03:13] <joejaxx> oh
[03:13] <joejaxx> hmm
[03:14] <LaserJock> I think they plan on splitting it out at some point, but I'm not postive about that
[03:14] <joejaxx> bah lol what am i supposed to label this under
[03:14] <joejaxx> fluxbuntu-artwork
[03:14] <LaserJock> whatever you want
[03:14] <LaserJock> you're the dev
[03:14] <joejaxx> even labels theirs under the wm/de
[03:15] <joejaxx> for the Section
[03:15] <gnomefreak> oh sorry
[03:15] <LaserJock> x11
[03:15] <LaserJock> that's where fluxbox is
[03:15] <LaserJock> is fluxbuntu going there?
[03:16] <joejaxx> fluxbuntu-meta's section is base
[03:16] <joejaxx> i do not know if that is wrong or not
[03:16] <LaserJock> hmmm
[03:17] <LaserJock> joejaxx: the definition of base on package.u.c is "Basic needed utilities of every Debian system"
[03:18] <joejaxx> ok yeap that is definitely wrong
[03:18] <LaserJock> and as much as you want to promot fluxbuntu, I doubt that you can claim it should be on *every* Debian system ;-)
[03:18] <LaserJock> *promote
[03:19] <joejaxx> well actually i was following this
[03:19] <joejaxx> Source: ubuntu-meta
[03:19] <joejaxx> Section: base
[03:19] <joejaxx> lol
[03:19] <LaserJock> hmm
[03:19] <LaserJock> maybe Ubuntu was a little optimistic
[03:19] <joejaxx> i wonder what i should change it too
[03:20] <LaserJock> xubuntu-meta is in misc
[03:20] <joejaxx> ok
[03:20] <joejaxx> that is the section i had fluxbuntu-artwork in
[03:20] <joejaxx> i will leave it
[03:20] <joejaxx> as misc
[03:21] <joejaxx> and change the other one to misc as well
[03:21] <LaserJock> -doc should be in text (if you ever make one)
[03:21] <joejaxx> ok
[03:22] <joejaxx> should the settings one be misc as well?
[03:22] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:22] <LaserJock> xubuntu-artwork is in x11
[03:22] <LaserJock> who knows
[03:30] <joejaxx> just build fluxbuntu-artwork
[03:30] <joejaxx> i have to rebuild meta though
[03:34] <joejaxx> ok rebuilt that one
[03:34] <joejaxx> now to the divert nonsense haha
[03:35] <joejaxx> this should be interesting
[03:57] <joejaxx> anyone have an example of a simple preinst file?
[03:58] <joejaxx> nevermind i can reference the one from fluxbox i forgot about that one
[05:15] <joejaxx> how does the fluxbox package get away with not having a install file
[05:17] <imbrandon> depends on the packaging , if the makefile puts the files in all the correect places then there really isnt a need for it with say cdbs
[05:17] <imbrandon> moins all
[05:18] <joejaxx> hello
[05:19] <joejaxx> imbrandon: figured out diversions
[05:19] <joejaxx> but
[05:19] <joejaxx> i need to know the exact place where fluxbox installs stuff
[05:19] <imbrandon> what are you making diversions in fluxbox for ?
[05:20] <joejaxx> no in fluxbox
[05:20] <joejaxx> not*
[05:20] <joejaxx> in the fluxbuntu-default-settings package
[05:20] <imbrandon> ok umm , still a bit puzzled why you would need deversions
[05:20] <joejaxx> because i have configuration files for fluxbox wdm and rox
[05:21] <imbrandon> have you looked at say kubuntu-default-settings
[05:22] <joejaxx> wow 10mb?
[05:22] <imbrandon> there abouts yea
[05:22] <imbrandon> but we dont use deversions at all
[05:23] <imbrandon> if anything we use alternatives for a few thins ( like the uspash artwork )
[05:23] <imbrandon> brb food time
[05:30] <imbrandon> fabo: ping
[05:41] <Hobbsee> hey all
[05:42] <joejaxx> hello
[05:46] <imbrandon> heya Hobbsee
[05:46] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon :)
[05:47] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: fixed all of kde yet?
[05:47] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: hehe no just uploaded kdepim and working on beryl crack right now
[05:47] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i think kdepim had another bug.
[05:47] <imbrandon> gonna try to get that finished up here in the next few
[05:47] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: https://launchpad.net/bugs/73288
[05:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73288 in kubuntu-meta "News issue" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[05:48] <imbrandon> NOW you mention it AFTER i upload it hehehe
[05:48] <imbrandon> just teasin
[05:48] <imbrandon> i'll look after this
[05:48] <imbrandon> i wanna finish this beryl crack so people stop asking me about it
[05:48] <imbrandon> :)
[05:48] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: apologies for going to work :P
[05:48] <imbrandon> ( they are still gonna be mad when they see how i have it versioned )
[05:49] <Hobbsee> how'd you do it?
[05:49] <Hobbsee> 0.0.0crack-0ubuntu1?
[05:49] <imbrandon> the correct way, but that happens to conflict with anyone that has the beryl repo in their sources.list
[05:49] <Hobbsee> that's a feature
[05:50] <imbrandon> sooo i'll have to poke the beryl guys later and tell them , because anyone that whine's i'm sending them their way,i told them not to do it at UDS but nooooo :)
[05:50] <Hobbsee> well, you dont want the beryl repo stuff trying to work with yours anyway
[05:51] <imbrandon> true, but its still gonna cause the ricers headaches
[05:51] <Hobbsee> they'll deal.  that's why they're ricers
[05:51] <imbrandon> :)
[05:51] <imbrandon> anyway i have everything but emerald fixed up, once i finish that ( building now to tet ) i'm gonna upload it
[05:52] <imbrandon> and de-virginize the repo's
[05:52] <imbrandon> oh the agony of the feisty repos will have when the archive admin goes threw the NEW queue
[05:52] <imbrandon> :)
[05:52] <nixternal> repo pr0n? i have seen it all now
[05:53] <Hobbsee> nice :)
[05:53] <Hobbsee> hah
[06:41] <joejaxx> Goodnight MOTU
[06:41] <ajmitch> night
[06:49] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch
[06:50] <ajmitch> hello
[06:50] <imbrandon> wanan test some crack in a few ?
[06:51] <ajmitch> of what?
[06:51] <imbrandon> beryl crack
[06:51] <ajmitch> I guess
[06:51] <ajmitch> might as well see if my desktop can handle the madness
[06:51] <imbrandon> hehe
[06:52] <imbrandon> i'm trying to fix a circle dep error right now then i /think/ they will be atleaste ready to upload
[06:52] <imbrandon> to the repo's , they will need some love over the next months but not /as/ crackfull as i thought
[06:53] <imbrandon> heya robitaille and Burgundavia
[06:54] <ajmitch> so how many people are working on beryl packages now? 4?
[06:54] <Burgundavia> hey imbrandon and robitaille
[06:54] <ajmitch> hello Burgundavia
[06:54] <imbrandon> ajmitch: 3 and we all combined the effort
[06:54] <imbrandon> s
[06:54] <robitaille> Hi Burgundavia  imbrandon
[06:54] <ajmitch> you & who else?
[06:54] <imbrandon> me and giskard and fabio
[06:54] <Burgundavia> it is bloody sad how many of you this is taking
[06:55] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: its REALLY crackfull
[06:55] <imbrandon> we have each caught coutless errors
[06:55] <ajmitch> imbrandon: fabio?
[06:55] <imbrandon> and i'm sure there will be more in the first month or so
[06:55] <imbrandon> s/i//
[06:55] <imbrandon> ajmitch: typo
[06:55] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: it is excellent software! ;)
[06:56] <Burgundavia> so excellent we are going to install it by default
[06:56] <Burgundavia> lovely
[06:56] <ajmitch> of course
[06:56] <ajmitch> now drink up, you'll need it
[06:57] <imbrandon> heh and have binary drivers :) /me ducks
[06:57] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: this is one area i 100% agree with you on , we dont always see eye to eye on stuff but i think this one is kinda universal
[06:57] <imbrandon> just sad more dont see that
[06:58] <Burgundavia> some don't realize what is supportable and what is not
[06:59] <Burgundavia> ok, the forums depress me
[06:59] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: you serious? rock
[07:00] <imbrandon> ajmitch: kick ass
[07:00] <ajmitch> yeah, I've just done my read of the forums & got thoroughly demotivated :)
[07:00] <ajmitch> imbrandon: early days yet, though
[07:00] <imbrandon> ajmitch: yea but thats still good
[07:00] <plugwash> i presume by drawing things you mean drawing things using the cards 3D features?
[07:00] <Burgundavia> the people in the Feisty forum are posting all kinds of crackish ideas, which is ok
[07:00] <Burgundavia> but then they all self reinforce each others bad ideas
[07:00] <Burgundavia> which is not
[07:01] <imbrandon> my main main thing is that nv and ati say they cant opensource the drivers even if they wanted to, BUT why dont they atleaste provide spec's
[07:01] <imbrandon> plugwash: their is
[07:01] <imbrandon> nv
[07:01] <Burgundavia> plugwash: it is written by nvidia and is quite unreadable
[07:01] <ajmitch> plugwash: yes, the 2d driver is fairly crap & obfuscated
[07:01] <ajmitch> I'm talking about things drawing with glxgears
[07:02] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: are you talking 3d stuff?
[07:02] <ajmitch> 11:22 < darktama> hmm, glxgears *is* being rendered.. just very very very small :)  you can just see tiny moving red, green and blue bits if you rotate the gears a bit
[07:02] <ajmitch> yes, I am
[07:02] <imbrandon> heheh nice
[07:04] <Burgundavia> now is Mark wanted to use some of his money to solve this issue, that would rock
[07:04] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: yea
[07:04] <Burgundavia> imagine if Canonical had one wireless and one graphics card driver on staff
[07:04] <Burgundavia> not a huge burden, but it would go a long way
[07:05] <ajmitch> I don't know how much it would help
[07:06] <Burgundavia> if you cycled people out on contact, it probably would
[07:06] <imbrandon> ok ajmitch last package just finished building and i'm copying to a temp webserver for you to grab, i installed and ran them ok, if you say they atleaste install i'll upload them , there is still a few things i would like to clean up but i'll do that on secondary uploads and such, atleaste the crack is mostly cleaned out now
[07:07] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: ?
[07:07] <imbrandon> wow
[07:07] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: if you hired an nvidia hacker for a bit, until they reached a certain level, etc
[07:08] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: the problem is attracting the rare people who have the time, abilty & know-how
[07:08] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: understandable
[10:43] (fabo/#ubuntu-motu) where's aquamarine :D not finished yet !!!
[10:43] (Amaranth/#ubuntu-motu) fabo: It hasn't actually been released
[10:43] (fabo/#ubuntu-motu) i know it's just a joke ;)
[10:45] <fabo> and yes you can backport them as is
[10:47] <ajmitch> hi Yagisan 
[10:48] <Yagisan> G'day ajmitch 
[10:49] <Yagisan> need to re-install my edgy boxes soon
[10:49] <ajmitch> but edgy is stable & wonderful
[10:54] <Yagisan> ajmitch, wonderful - yeah - but need to - er - repartition my raid array
[10:58] <ajmitch> & why does that require a reinstall?
[11:04] <pirast> i have a question, i patched a package in universe some time ago, what is the best practice in order to enable it to appear in a new version?
[11:04] <pirast> asking for a sync again and patching it after upstream version freeze again?
[11:04] <ajmitch> or you merge it now
[11:05] <ajmitch> rather than leaving it unpatched
[11:05] <ogra> is it on merges.ubuntu.com ?
[11:05] <ogra> mom might have done the work for you already ;)
[11:05] <pirast> that sounds nice :-)
[11:06] <pirast> i will have a look
[11:08] <pirast> nope :-( does not seem so
[11:08] <ogra> what is it ?
[11:09] <pirast> dvdrip
[11:09] <ajmitch> ah, that was not originally from debian, was it?
[11:09] <fdoving> who do i poke to make a schedutils sync with debian? (automatic that is). 
[11:09] <pirast> nope, debian-multimedia :-(
[11:09] <Fujitsu> fdoving: If it has no Ubuntu changes, it'll be synced within a couple of days.
[11:10] <ajmitch> fdoving: since it's modified in ubuntu, someone needs to merge any changes
[11:10] <ajmitch> or I see that you made the last changes..
[11:10] <Fujitsu> We seem to have a new upstream version in Ubuntu...
[11:10] <ajmitch> so file a sync request on malone, details are on the DeveloperResources wiki page
[11:11] <fdoving> ajmitch: can the ubuntu changes silently die? - the debian package is way better.
[11:11] <ajmitch> then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[11:11] <ajmitch> if they're really not needed, and the orig.tar.gz is the same, then yes
[11:11] <ajmitch> make sure you mention that in the bug you file
[11:12] <fdoving> I already have a bugreport, i'll subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.
[11:12] <pirast> other example is pgadmin3, which is in ubuntu
[11:12] <pirast> and was synced from debian
[11:13] <pirast> btw, do we already know if thunderbird will be renamed in ubuntu? because if not, it will shoot some plugin packages in universe..
[11:14] <Fujitsu> pirast: It is unlikely that it will be renamed here as well...
[11:14] <Fujitsu> This will increase delta with Debian, but we'll have to live with that.
[11:15] <pirast> :-( that's bad.. I fixed enigmail-locales in Edgy.. and it was hard work (renaming and replacing with sed)
[11:17] <imbrandon> hrm i wonder if there are gonna be any archive admins on today ( to process the NEW queue )
[11:18] <ajmitch> unlikely
[11:18] <ajmitch> given that they're all in UK/Europe, and it's sunday
[11:18] <imbrandon> yea
[11:18] <imbrandon> i wanted to try it on my lappy but really dident want to compile it again
[11:19] <imbrandon> but i guess i will
[11:19] <ajmitch> beryl?
[11:19] <imbrandon> yea
[11:19] <ajmitch> but you had i386 packages?
[11:19] <imbrandon> lappy is ppc
[11:19] <ajmitch> ah yes
[11:19] <ajmitch> one of those
[11:19] <imbrandon> :)
[11:20] <ajmitch> do I care enough to install beryl stuff on the laptop again?
[11:20] <imbrandon> dosent seem TOO bad on my desktop
[11:20] <ajmitch> runs mostly fine on the desktop, except for a few nasty bugs
[11:20] <imbrandon> yea i have a few "what window should be on top" annoyances
[11:20] <imbrandon> that seems to be the main things
[11:21] <imbrandon> and alt tab seems iffy at best
[11:21] <ajmitch> I've gone back to metacity already
[11:21] <imbrandon> but over all its not near as bad as i thought
[11:21] <fdoving> .. and beryl doesn't work well with two monitors :] 
[11:21] <ajmitch> fdoving: which is what I have
[11:21] <fdoving> me too.
[11:21] <imbrandon> i wont till next month :(
[11:21] <pirast> i have another question: when an archive admin syncs a package from a debian-like repository, will it be autosynced then?
[11:22] <fdoving> might work for you, but for me and the open ati drivers, it didn't work well.
[11:22] <Amaranth> iirc all problems with that are now in the plugins and most of them have been fixed
[11:22] <ajmitch> pirast: I don't think so
[11:22] <Amaranth> but only in SVN, of course
[11:22] <pirast> ajmitch, thanks
[11:22] <Amaranth> as of about 3 days ago, i think
[11:22] <Amaranth> (multihead)
[11:22] <ajmitch> imbrandon: since your little amd64 just isn't good enough...
[11:22] <imbrandon> fdoving: thats what my lappy uses , the open ati drivers
[11:22] <fdoving> imbrandon: we have the same :)
[11:23] <imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe i'm gonna buy a 4 core ( 2x dual core ) amd i think 
[11:23] <fdoving> works OK without extra monitor.
[11:23] <Amaranth> last time i tried compiz on ppc with the ati driver it all blew up
[11:23] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, we all hate you, that's ok
[11:23] <Amaranth> of course that was right after dapper came out
[11:23] <Amaranth> problems with the driver, i guess
[11:23] <imbrandon> Amaranth: what xorg magic do i have to do to my lappy to get bery to run
[11:23] <imbrandon> beryl
[11:24] <imbrandon> opensource ati
[11:24] <imbrandon> ( no i'm not loading the binary driver )
[11:24] <Amaranth> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BerylOnEdgy
[11:24] <imbrandon> bah
[11:24] <imbrandon> :)
[11:24] <Amaranth> and the binary driver doesn't even work on ppc, does it?
[11:24] <imbrandon> dunno
[11:24] <imbrandon> 'never tried it
[11:25] <imbrandon> ajmitch: me too
[11:26] <Amaranth> me too
[11:26] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:26] <Amaranth> btw, did you know the only real maintainer of the nv driver is an nvidia employee who works on their linux driver?
[11:26] <ajmitch> yes, I know that
[11:27] <Amaranth> it's annoying
[11:27] <ajmitch> and that he won't accept patches for features
[11:27] <ajmitch> the nouveau driver is already better for 2d
[11:28] <Amaranth> of course he won't, that'd make the binary driver less useful :P
[11:28] <Fujitsu> Nouveau actually works?
[11:28] <Fujitsu> I thought it was still very unworking...
[11:28] <Amaranth> the day it gets good enough to run beryl without crashing for at least 12 hours is the day i start using it full time
[11:28] <ajmitch> it's rather useless for 3d
[11:29] <Amaranth> i suspect i have at least 6 months to wait
[11:29] <ajmitch> but the ddx component is based off the nv driver, with some deobfuscation
[11:29] <ajmitch> the 2d driver does require you use the drm module, which can't be loaded at the same time as the binary nvidia module
[11:30] <Amaranth> they both want to own the same device, would that ever work?
[11:30] <ajmitch> it'd be nice if you could have 2 cards & have the modules own 1 each :)
[11:30] <Amaranth> and i want a pony
[11:31] <imbrandon> no pony for you
[11:34] <ajmitch> maybe I should just do an imbrandon & get a whole new box ;)
[11:34] <ajmitch> get one of those geforce 8800 GTX cards
[11:36] <ajmitch> they used to - I've got an old i740 agp card
[11:36] <imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe i figured that i got a new job i deserved a new computer ( but i still have to wait till next month )
[11:36] <DarkMageZ> there's no point in them doing it. only a very very small handful of people want them to
[11:39] <ajmitch> imbrandon: what quad-core cpu will you get?
[11:39] <giskard> morning
[11:39] <ajmitch> or just a dual-cpu, dual-core?
[11:39] <ajmitch> hi giskard 
[11:39] <giskard> hello ajmitch 
[11:45] <imbrandon> giskard: all packages uploaded , with your mine and fabo's changes, its in the NEW queue and likely wont hit the archive untill monday afternoon when a archive admin can approve it
[11:46] <giskard> imbrandon, cool!
[11:46] <imbrandon> ajmitch: i was thinking about getting dual amdx2 ( totaly 4 core, 2x dual core )
[11:47] <imbrandon> not sure, yea i just know i want to get the best ootb amd system i can for about 2k next month 
[11:47] <imbrandon> still looking and pricing stuff
[11:48] <imbrandon> any hints/tips ?
[11:51] <ajmitch> problem with quad-core is that for any single task, it's limited to the speed of 1 core, so you need to do more in parallel
[11:52] <imbrandon> yea
[11:52] <imbrandon> hardware raid
[11:52] <ajmitch> man, these people talking about the nouveau driver, do they know how far it has to go?
[11:52] <ajmitch> not hardware RAID, unless you get a real expensive chipset
[11:52] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[11:52] <ajmitch> most consumer hardware RAID stuff sucks
[11:53] <jsgotangco> we lurve crack
[11:53] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:53] <ajmitch> proprietary on-disk formats, buggy firmware, you name it
[11:53] <ajmitch> with quad-core, you have more than enough power to handle software RAID
[11:53] <Amaranth> is +t set here?
[11:53] <ajmitch> Amaranth: no
[11:58] <StevenK> "slow old dual-core" hah
[11:58] <imbrandon> :)
[11:58] <imbrandon> i would only do striping anyhow, and then backups
[11:59] <StevenK> My /home is on RAID 1.
[11:59] <StevenK> Well, shared network /home.
[11:59] <imbrandon> yea
[11:59] <imbrandon> i tried that but i need a faster network
[11:59] <imbrandon> to make it worth it
[11:59] <StevenK> 100Mbit is too slow?
[11:59] <imbrandon> my lappys wireless is only b
[11:59] <imbrandon> so kinda sucks
[11:59] <StevenK> Ah.
[11:59] <imbrandon> nah for the wired its ok
[12:00] <StevenK> Don't do NFS over 11b. :-P
[12:00] <ajmitch> StevenK: why don't you trust software raid 5?
[12:00] <imbrandon> GAH , i killed X on my lappy
[12:00] <Amaranth> wait, shared network /home on a laptop?
[12:00] <imbrandon> Amaranth: sure, then you also have a local login for when your away from home
[12:00] <StevenK> ajmitch: I've lost over 30Gb of data to it, in 3 seperate situations, and it's hard to recover from, as opposed to RAID 1.
[12:01] <Amaranth> imbrandon: sounds annoying
[12:01] <ajmitch> StevenK: impressive
[12:01] <ajmitch> StevenK: I've heard too many hardware raid horror stories as well :)
[12:02] <StevenK> I treat the MegaRAID cards at work a little carefully, but they're *expensive*.
[12:02] <ajmitch> all my compiling & stuff like that is on the 450GB RAID 0
[12:02] <ajmitch> yeah, I can't quite afford one of those
[12:02] <ajmitch> hence why I was saying that consumer hardware raid generally sucks :)
[12:02] <ajmitch> since it's often semi-software raid
[12:02] <StevenK> They're kinda nice, and kind of scary. :-)
[12:05] <ajmitch> hm, midnight, probably about bed time
[12:05] <ajmitch> work at 8:30 :)
[12:06] <Amaranth> 5:00 here
[12:06] <Amaranth> sunday, of course
[12:07] <imbrandon> hahah looks like no beryl on my lappy for now http://federation.imbrandon.com/x-on-lappy.jpg
[12:08] <StevenK> Could your camera take a picture that's more blurry?
[12:08] <imbrandon> does that qualify as a BSOD ? 
[12:08] <imbrandon> StevenK: haha we've been through this, it sucks
[12:08] <StevenK> Oh yeah, we have.
[12:08] <Amaranth> imbrandon: what'd you do?
[12:08] <Amaranth> and yeah, that's a BSOD for a regular user :)
[12:08] <imbrandon> added composite and some other things to xorg
[12:09] <Amaranth> composite is on by default
[12:09] <Amaranth> and i don't think the other crackful options in that guide are needed
[12:09] <Amaranth> afaik it "just works" by installing beryl and running it
[12:09] <imbrandon> NOW you tell me, i asked what i needed
[12:09] <imbrandon> :)
[12:09] <Amaranth> i was going for what i thought was the safe answer :)
[12:10] <imbrandon> there is a reason i havent applied for the X maintainer at canonical :) I hate xorg.conf ( and X in general but there isnt anything better )
[12:10] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:11] <ajmitch> Amaranth: thanks for the nouveau followup on the list ;)
[12:11] <Amaranth> imbrandon: I know some of those xorg.conf options are supposed to give something like 3x speed boosts for beryl
[12:11] <Amaranth> but i only have nvidia hardware so i can't confirm
[12:12] <ajmitch> & my intel-based laptop is nothing special
[12:12] <ajmitch> though neither is the nvidia card
[12:12] <StevenK> s/\//./
[12:12] <StevenK> I wanted to get a Nvidia PCI-E card with my tax refund, but that didn't work out.
[12:12] <imbrandon> i have intel in the computer i use all the time, and ati in the lappy and nvida in the amd64
[12:13] <imbrandon> but i never use the amd64 in gui mode
[12:13] <ajmitch> why not?
[12:13] <imbrandon> it has a crappy monitor, and i just generaly hate that computer
[12:13] <imbrandon> so i use it via ssh to build on
[12:13] <StevenK> imbrandon: I'm typing this on an Edgy amd64 machine.
[12:13] <imbrandon> :)
[12:14] <imbrandon> i'm typing on a feisty x86 :)
[12:14] <StevenK> I'm sticking to running feisty in chroots.
[12:14] <Hobbsee> wuss!  :P
[12:15] <Amaranth> hell, it's my only install
[12:15] <ajmitch> I figure that if I don't see the breakage, I won't have the incentive to fix it
[12:15] <Amaranth> ajmitch: I just watch the forums to look for people complaining
[12:15] <Amaranth> If someone says "You idiots broke my computer again, learn how to program" I don't upgrade that day
[12:16] <StevenK> finalbeta: And then you forcibly downgraded?
[12:16] <Fujitsu> StevenK: YOu mean me?
[12:16] <StevenK> Er, yeah.
[12:16] <Fujitsu> Nope, I installed sid.
[12:16] <Fujitsu> Well, Etch, then upgraded.
[12:16] <StevenK> And that's an improvement?
[12:17] <Fujitsu> I hadn't installed Debian in quite some time, I figured it was time for a change.
[12:17] <imbrandon> as long as it wasent SuSE /me ducks
[12:17] <jsgotangco> Fujitsu: +1 :)
[12:18] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: but you cant run the beryl crack now :) just teasin
[12:19] <Amaranth> actually i think sid has packages
[12:19] <Amaranth> or will soon
[12:19] <imbrandon> yea the ones i just uploaded :)
[12:19] <imbrandon> giskard will upload them to sid in a few days :)
[12:19] <Amaranth> ah
[12:19] <imbrandon> once some more of the bugs are fixed
[12:20] <Amaranth> i thought the XSF owned beryl
[12:20] <imbrandon> XSF ?
[12:20] <ajmitch> Amaranth: afaik, they do
[12:20] <minghua> there is compiz, not sure if it's owned by XSF though
[12:20] <ajmitch> imbrandon: X strike force, maintainers of X in debian
[12:20] <minghua> imbrandon: X Strike Force
[12:20] <imbrandon> ah
[12:20] <ajmitch> so giskard may get in trouble if he uploads while ignoring an ITP
[12:21] <Amaranth> and they, uh, hate cdbs
[12:21] <ajmitch> I don't blame them
[12:22] <giskard> imbrandon, beryl will not go in unstable until etch is released..
[12:22] <imbrandon> good
[12:22] <Amaranth> one line make files backed by magic scripts, what's not to like? :)
[12:26] <minghua> if you can reduce the X packages' rules file to one line, sure
[12:26] <minghua> ;-)
[12:36] <rgl> hi
[12:40] <fabo> giskard: beryl can go in experimental, when shwan will decide to cooperate ...
[12:40] <fabo> shawn
[12:42] <imbrandon> gah it ftbfs on ppc too
[12:42] <giskard> imbrandon, amen ;) 
[12:42] <imbrandon> on ppc
[12:43] <StevenK> Because it's build system doesn't know any better.
[12:43] <giskard> willubuntu support beryl?
[12:43] <imbrandon> yea , ajmitch already found that out on amd64
[12:44] <imbrandon> bah , i'm tired of messing with it for tonight
[12:45] <StevenK> imbrandon: What, "everything" ? :-P
[12:45] <apokryphos> giskard: presumably that hasn't been decided yet. Beryl or compiz.
[12:45] <giskard> ?
[12:46] <apokryphos> I think we're waiting till the TB decides, right?
[12:46] <giskard> apokryphos, ahhhhh stupid me, what i wanted ask is: will ubuntu support ppc?
[12:46] <imbrandon> they said at feature freeze time what ever one is "less buggy"
[12:46] <apokryphos> I think that hasn't been decided yet too :P
[12:46] <imbrandon> giskard: yes
[12:46] <imbrandon> for now
[12:46] <apokryphos> imbrandon: really?
[12:47] <StevenK> I suspect PPC will be revisited for feisty+1
[12:47] <apokryphos> if they're leaning that way I'd imagine it'd end up being compiz
[12:47] <StevenK> (Dear me, it sounds so strange saying that already.)
[12:47] <imbrandon> StevenK: hehe
[12:47] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:48] <imbrandon> mostly because IBM is getting ready to push power cell workstations afaik , but i'm not 100%
[12:48] <StevenK> Apple may have dropped PPC, but the rest of the world hasn't let go yet.
[12:48] <imbrandon> yup
[12:50] <DarkMageZ> doesn't the xbox360 run ppc?
[12:50] <imbrandon> yea , so does the wii and the ps3
[12:51] <imbrandon> all 3 run power arch
[12:51] <Simon80> the diff is how many, lol
[12:51] <DarkMageZ> i can't wait to run osx on my new xbox 360 :)
[12:52] <imbrandon> your more likely to run linux than osx :) 
[12:52] <imbrandon> osx wont have the drivers for the hardware 
[12:52] <imbrandon> ( e.g. no sata support )
[12:52] <StevenK> Bullshit. OS X supports SATA.
[12:53] <Simon80> yes, but specific SATA controller for that board?
[12:53] <StevenK> They just only have drivers for like 2 chipsets.
[12:53] <imbrandon> StevenK: it was an example, it dident for a long time
[12:53] <Simon80> lol
[12:53] <imbrandon> i know i just loaded osx on my amd64 a few days ago with sata :)
[12:54] <imbrandon> but thats not the point :P
[12:55] <DarkMageZ> hackers have added drivers to osx86. maybe oneday someone will hackup ppc to run on xbox360
[12:55] <imbrandon> ( i know it wont )
[12:55] <DarkMageZ> i'd love to have the cube & wobble on osx
[01:04] <minghua> don't you already have the cube on OS X (I don't know exactly how cube looks on compiz/beryl though)
[01:05] <imbrandon> no
[01:05] <imbrandon> their isnt even any kinda of multi desktops in osx
[01:05] <imbrandon> let alone a cube :)
[01:07] <StevenK> imbrandon: That'll be in .5
[01:07] <minghua> well, I was talking about "switch user" on OS X
[01:15] <imbrandon> minghua: that dosent compare heh, i can switch user on kde/gnome witout accerated X ( windows too )
[01:15] <imbrandon> StevenK: yea i have read that
[01:18] <minghua> imbrandon: but OS X uses a "cube effect" for switching user, doesn't it?
[01:18] <imbrandon> no
[01:18] <imbrandon> it does it exactly the same as windows/kde ( not sure how gnome does it )
[01:18] <minghua> okay, then I probably don't know what "cube" in compiz/beryl is
[01:18] <imbrandon> you get a nice gdm/kdm looking screen , etc
[01:19] <imbrandon> cube is ...... hold on
[01:20] <minghua> I am talking about http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/fastuserswitching/
[01:20] <bhale> Mac OS X Tiger animates transitions from one user to another. The current desktop becomes a texture placed on a 3D cube that rotates out of view while the incoming account desktop rotates into view on another side of the cube.
[01:21] <imbrandon> bhale: not on my osx 10.4.7 it dosent , i get a nice gdm looking screen just as nortmal
[01:21] <minghua> imbrandon: I think there is an option for that
[01:22] <bhale> i cant map Tiger <> 10.4.7
[01:22] <minghua> Tiger = 10.4.x
[01:22] <bhale> codenamed releases are assinine
[01:22] <StevenK> .4
[01:22] <imbrandon> anyhow thats still not the same as switching desktops
[01:22] <imbrandon> tiger == 10.4.anything
[01:22] <imbrandon> minghua: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2200109535941088987
[01:22] <StevenK> Tiger is not 10.4.anything
[01:23] <StevenK> Oh wait, it is. I'm misremembering
[01:23] <minghua> sorry, don't have flash here
[01:23] <imbrandon> StevenK: ?
[01:23] <imbrandon> hehe
[01:23] <imbrandon> i was gonna say
[01:24] <imbrandon> minghua: you can get the avi download on the right
[01:25] <imbrandon> but in either case, its not multi desktops in the linux sense
[01:25] <imbrandon> not untill 10.5
[01:27] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm told that flaming in #beryl-dev is good, when beryl crashes
[01:27] <imbrandon> heh
[01:28] <minghua> I am not saying it's multi desktops, I am just saying the effect is there
[01:29] <minghua> and I seriously suspect compiz/beryl got the inspiration from apple
[01:29] <StevenK> Oh, no doubt.
[01:30] <imbrandon> :)
[01:36] <StevenK> w
[01:36] <StevenK> Oops.
[01:48] <sivang> howdy folks
[01:51] <imbrandon> ello sivang 
[01:54] <sivang> hey imbrandon 
[01:54] <giskard> hello sivang 
[01:54] <sivang> imbrandon: what's the big deal about the ubuntu open week? /me wonders what more news he had missed over the mrely thursday->sunday he's been away
[01:54] <sivang> hey giskard !
[01:54] <sivang> oh, ouch
[01:55] <apokryphos> it's on /. now too I see
[01:56] <sivang> apokryphos: but ofcourse. Something like that would have never slipped off them :)
[01:56] <apokryphos> it took quite long to get on there though; I think they wanted to save it for the slashdot saturday ;-)
[01:56] <imbrandon> sivang: one post sums it all up for me http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03899.html
[01:57] <imbrandon> hrm i think its time for some food, bbiab
[01:58] <bhale> sivang: the big deal was mark being an ass to the opensuse guys
[01:59] <bhale> intended or not
[01:59] <imbrandon> i dident see anywhere in the email him being an ass, i see him inviting them to an event we have if they wanted to come
[01:59] <imbrandon> show me one line where he is an "ass" ?
[02:00] <apokryphos> imbrandon: the very first paragraph, I'd say :)
[02:00] <sivang> bhale: yeah, I'm now going over the threads
[02:00] <imbrandon> thats being an ass? it was reiterated by almost all the sues guys too "yea novel sucks blah blah blah"
[02:00] <bhale> the places he posted it and the way it was worded
[02:00] <apokryphos> imbrandon: Not at all; in fact, the exact opposite
[02:01] <apokryphos> everyone's interpreting it at him trying to poach opensuse developers, and doing that on their list
[02:01] <sivang> bhale: now what's so bad in what novell are doing with M$?
[02:01] <minghua> different people read the same words differently.  can't we just settle at that?
[02:01] <imbrandon> suse poeple need to stop reading into it then what its not
[02:01] <bhale> if someone unknown wrote the same thing in the same place with the same words
[02:01] <apokryphos> that's certainly (i) spam, (ii) because of his words about Novell/suse it's trolling, and as Burgundavia says "it's just not done"
[02:01] <bhale> i think we would all agree it was a troll
[02:01] <apokryphos> imbrandon: I think your presupposition that it's just suse people who are annoyed about this is completely erroneous
[02:01] <imbrandon> its a damn invatiation , no where in it, infact it explisitlyu states its NOT geared to them
[02:01] <apokryphos> check the ubuntu planet
[02:02] <apokryphos> you're telling me the invitation is not geared to them?
[02:02] <bhale> the title of the blog is "welcome opensuse developers"
[02:02] <bhale> not "welcome to ubuntu open week"
[02:02] <imbrandon> apokryphos: i have seen planet , infact i have a post in the que to goto planet, that dosent make them any more right
[02:02] <apokryphos> the majority of responses on the plane to this, on the blogs, is against his actions
[02:02] <apokryphos> imbrandon: it doesn't make them right but it does make your previous point kind of wrong
[02:03] <imbrandon> bhale: but he dident announce the open week, he anounced the invatation
[02:03] <imbrandon> jono did the open week
[02:03] <sivang> bhale++ , so is read here
[02:03] <imbrandon> apokryphos: no
[02:03] <apokryphos> do you really think it's appropriate to go into another project's mailing list, and try to take their talented developers?
[02:03] <imbrandon> apokryphos: no i dont but i think it perfectly acceptable to go there and invite them to an event they might be interested in
[02:03] <bhale> imbrandon: it is basically a copy of the mail to opensuse
[02:03] <bhale> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/msg03765.html
[02:03] <bhale> which is here
[02:04] <imbrandon> apokryphos: and thats what it was if you see it as something else your ASSUMING 
[02:04] <apokryphos> as most suse guys are saying, the Open Week is great. Looks like there's a lot of wonderful things going on. But it's pretty bad if this is geared around trying to win over some opensuse devs
[02:04] <bhale> and again starts out by mentioning novell
[02:04] <apokryphos> imbrandon: you've just flowered up what I just said :)
[02:04] <apokryphos> so spam is ok, right?
[02:04] <imbrandon> apokryphos: and it wasent and never marketed that way
[02:04] <sivang> "Invitation to OpenSUSE developers"
[02:04] <bhale> it is just fine to invite them, and fedora I guess
[02:05] <bhale> you could ignore him, crazy old mark
[02:05] <bhale> this is more loaded than that
[02:05] <imbrandon> even in his email, he said "hey we're already doing this. you might like to come ... blah blah blah" you are ASSUMING it was geared to opensuse
[02:05] <bhale> It is in the title
[02:05] <bhale> and the first paragraph
[02:05] <apokryphos> imbrandon: the fact that the week is taking place (in itself), is irrelevant. What everyone's annoyed at is the post to the list.
[02:05] <sivang> it is in the title, indeed
[02:05] <bhale> he didnt send it to Fedora, did he?
[02:05] <bhale> or Gentoo
[02:05] <imbrandon> apokryphos: and that is just plain wrong to be
[02:06] <apokryphos> though I still maintain the blog itself is very cheeky. But hey, you should post anything you want on your blog
[02:06] <bhale> intentions aside, it is easily taken as a troll IMHO
[02:06] <sivang> could anyone please explain a stupid o' non native speaker what is meant by:
[02:06] <apokryphos> imbrandon: how can you seriously maintain that then? Hey guys, come along to this event that we're doing and we'll teach you how to develop for ubuntu. Forget suse.
[02:06] <sivang> "go to great lengths to circumvent the patent
[02:06] <sivang> framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the
[02:06] <sivang> community. If you are an OpenSUSE "
[02:06] <sivang> are they patenting thier floss stuff to microsoft?
[02:06] <imbrandon> apokryphos: your close but not quite there yet, stop adding to it
[02:07] <bhale> sivang: no
[02:07] <apokryphos> sivang: trying to dodge the GPL, basically.
[02:07] <bhale> sivang: i will msg you
[02:07] <sivang> bhale: thanks dude
[02:07] <apokryphos> imbrandon: I'm quite sure I'm not :)
[02:07] <apokryphos> imbrandon: it's very easy to flower up what he did; it's different to look at what he ACTUALLY did instead of what he's hoping to do
[02:07] <apokryphos> I'm not saying his intentions weren't noble or whatnot. But intentions are quite different to actions
[02:08] <apokryphos> and it's actions that we more frequently hold people responsible of, since that's how you excercise your free moral agency
[02:08] <imbrandon> apokryphos: no thats where your dead wrong, you are "assuming" and adding to it, i'm going by the exact words
[02:08] <apokryphos> imbrandon: going for words will only tell you his intentions. Looking at what actually happened will... tell you what actually happened.
[02:08] <minghua> imbrandon: I think it's very arrogant to say other people are "wrong" to be annoyed
[02:09] <bhale> well
[02:09] <imbrandon> apokryphos: exactly and he posted an invite to suse developers to join us in a week to learn about ubuntu, thats EXACTLY what happened
[02:09] <bhale> I am glad that imbrandon and other people are doing Open Week
[02:09] <imbrandon> nothing wrong with that
[02:09] <bhale> I should have said that
[02:09] <imbrandon> even if its posted to their list
[02:09] <apokryphos> imbrandon: oh, so you're maintaining that he didn't want to try to poach those suse developers?
[02:10] <bhale> imbrandon: if he wanted to politely do that he should have left our loaded statements about the 'political' climate
[02:10] <imbrandon> does it say anywhere that he is? it said if they arent happy at home they might be interested, it dident say stop working on suse and come to us
[02:10] <bhale> and not singled out suse
[02:10] <imbrandon> thats what people are adding
[02:10] <sivang> sounds a bit superficial to me
[02:10] <apokryphos> heh. Yeah, which is exactly poaching. "We can offer you a lot of great stuff here at Ubuntu; come join!!"
[02:11] <apokryphos> sivang: more sessions :P
[02:11] <imbrandon> bhale: he dident single out suse, thats the thing, he meerly invited them, the week is for everyone IT EVEN SAYS IN THE MAIL TO THE SUSE GUYS that its for everyone
[02:11] <imbrandon> gah
[02:11] <imbrandon> sorry for caps
[02:11] <sivang> apokryphos: right ;)
[02:11] <bhale> imbrandon: why didnt he send it to anyone else?
[02:11] <imbrandon> apokryphos: no its not 
[02:11] <apokryphos> imbrandon: why does that change anything? I never said the open week was just for suse guys
[02:11] <imbrandon> bhale: he dident have to as he dident orginise the even, jono sent it to everyone
[02:11] <apokryphos> the actual events of the open week are irrelevant, as I said. But hey :)
[02:12] <minghua> the fact that such mails are only sent to opensuse list, but not fedora, gentoo, debian lists, ARE singling out suse
[02:12] <apokryphos> imbrandon: anyhow, see what Riddell said. Even though Mark is very explicit, Riddell is too
[02:12] <apokryphos> "Part of the reason this was organised is an attempt to entice openSUSE developers annoyed at the Novell/Microsoft deal over to Ubuntu."
[02:12] <imbrandon> yes and Riddell is wrong
[02:12] <imbrandon> i totaly disagree with him
[02:12] <apokryphos> I think I'll trust Mark's and Riddell's explicit words
[02:13] <apokryphos> imbrandon: his title didn't say "welcome to ubuntu week!" it said "welcome, opensuse developers!"
[02:13] <imbrandon> bah your not going by marks explisit words, your reading more into it
[02:13] <imbrandon> thats the thing
[02:13] <imbrandon> apokryphos: because that was his invatation
[02:13] <imbrandon> if you read the mail it says it s not just for them
[02:13] <imbrandon> EXPLISITLY
[02:14] <apokryphos> maybe we should work for some definitions here since then things will be clearer
[02:14] <apokryphos> otherwise we'll go in circles
[02:14] <imbrandon> bah no i got to run
[02:14] <imbrandon> but
[02:14] <apokryphos> ok, see you
[02:14] <bhale> I dont think I am going to change anyones mind, time for a shower
[02:14] <imbrandon> it boils down to people adding into what they thing its about instead of reading the damn email
[02:15] <apokryphos> To be completely honest, the only people I see who advocate what Mark did (I won't include you in this category for now) are people who are genuinely blindly following anything that Mark says
[02:15] <apokryphos> Mark is a wonderful guy, and he hasn't slipped up very majorly before, so it's hard to see. But leaders can be wrong too; they need direction from the community just as much as a community needs direction too
[02:15] <imbrandon> no i go against what i think is wrong and right, like bin driver, i have a strong stance against those
[02:15] <imbrandon> etc
[02:16] <Hobbsee> hey PriceChild 
[02:16] <PriceChild> Hobbsee!!!! :D
[02:16] <apokryphos> if you're around later we can discuss it I guess, if you like, imbrandon :)
[02:16] <PriceChild> What're you doing up at this time Hobbsee?
[02:16] <imbrandon> and other things, i dont have time to get into it as i really must run, but no , i'm not a "blind" follower
[02:16] <apokryphos> see ya :)
[02:16] <Hobbsee> PriceChild: it's only just gone midnight...
[02:16] <imbrandon> later :)
[02:16] <apokryphos> imbrandon: I know, I excluded you from the set :P
[02:16] <Hobbsee> and installing xen, to answer the question
[02:16] <PriceChild> Hobbsee ah ok thought it was past 1....
[02:17] <Hobbsee> nope
[02:17] <PriceChild> Hobbsee: how was k?
[02:17] <PriceChild> *work?
[02:17] <elkbuntu> cya imbrandon
[02:17] <Hobbsee> was okay
[02:17] <apokryphos> :P
[02:17] <PriceChild> gd gd
[02:17] <imbrandon> lol
[02:21] <sivang> whawo
[02:21] <sivang> this is amazing
[02:21] <sivang> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html
[02:32] <gnomefreak> not sure if amazing was the word i was looking for :(
[02:43] <admin123> that's a good decision, freedom vs user experience. Although I can't seem to see how it' violates ubuntus philosophy 
[02:44] <sivang> who's JPR and where can I read about his critique of canonical?
[02:50] <apokryphos> sivang: where's that mentioned?
[02:50] <apokryphos> admin123: some people think that, as mentioned on ubuntu.com, Ubuntu only includes proprietary drivers when it's absolutely necessary
[02:50] <apokryphos> so that if accelerated-x and desktop effects aren't necessary, then these shouldn't be included in Ubuntu, on the CD
[02:51] <admin123> well, the packages could be on cd like they are being availble on repository, so that the user can deside for the user itself.
[02:51] <sladen> sivang: it's in response to sabdfl's somewhat risque recruiting exercise on the opensuse list weighing in on patents
[02:52] <admin123> even by warning 
[02:52] <sladen> sivang: the response from the opensuse was been surprisingly restrained
[02:52] <apokryphos> admin123: it could, but some people think that violates Ubuntu's Philosophy
[02:53] <sladen> yes, perhaps it violates the philosophy, the legal technicalities are however incorrect
[02:53] <admin123> I can't see how it violates ubuntu philosophy. If that was the case then flashplugin-nonfree should be removed also etc.. etc.. This issue has come up with debian wayback, (removing non-free from repository) but it's just not worth it, because of lost of users.
[02:54] <admin123> ubtil there is a good replacement
[02:54] <apokryphos> admin123: the flash plugin is not on the cd
[02:54] <admin123> but this concern's the philosophy right?
[02:54] <gnomefreak> the things are like l-r-m that are installed from cd that make people think it breaks the ubuntu way
[02:55] <bhale> lrm has been installed for years, i thought
[02:55] <bhale> with binary kernel drivers
[02:55] <sladen> yes.  
[02:55] <bhale> and blobs
[02:55] <apokryphos> "We include this software because it is essential in order for Ubuntu to run on certain machines - typical examples are the binary drivers that some video card vendors publish, which are the only way for Ubuntu to run on those machines."
[02:55] <sladen> avoid binary blobs if possible;  but if people are going to need to do it, then make it easy for them
[02:56] <apokryphos> the next statement is stronger "By default, we will only use open source software unless there is simply no other way to install Ubuntu."
[02:56] <gnomefreak> the problem there is its not needed by default its just the linux-image-* (i think thats the meta) that installs it for you.
[02:56] <apokryphos> I think they meant not use ;-)
[02:56] <admin123> hehe
[02:56] <sivang> sladen: I see , so that's probably what everybody refers to as the "satiric" response on -devel ?
[02:56] <bhale> i am much more concerned about my wifi card working than opengl
[02:57] <apokryphos> sivang: right
[02:57] <bhale> i would happily sell my soul for my intel card to keep working out of the box with the binary thingamagig
[02:57] <sladen> sivang: yes, probably best to resist the urge to reply. 
[02:58] <gnomefreak> now i do believe ndiswrapper needs to be included in default install for those users that need it but thats a long shot of that happening 
[02:58] <bhale> ndiswrapper goes far beyond 'binary blob/driver'
[02:58] <bhale> and you still need networking to get the stupid windows driver anyway
[02:59] <sivang> sladen: I was not going to reply anyway, I'm not interested on adding to this, it's just odd to open up the online "newspapers" and find out about this :)
[02:59] <gnomefreak> i know but its still closed source
[03:01] <sladen> sivang: I think it made slashdot
[03:02] <apokryphos> today, yeah
[03:03] <gnomefreak> seems like everything we do ends up on slash or digg
[03:03] <apokryphos> the painful limelight 8)
[03:04] <gnomefreak> :)
[03:04] <sivang> sladen: right, this aien't gonna do us any good as a commnity or as a project
[03:04] <gnomefreak> i never really rea them its always someone saying something stupid in channel and they tell me where they saw it
[03:09] <sladen> sivang: it might be worth expressing that to them who wrote it
[03:10] <bhale> meh, it has been going on for as long as i have been reading (6 years?0
[03:10] <bhale> if there is a sensational story, it is going up
[03:11] <bhale> you should feel lucky that normally the slashdot community is largely positive towards ubuntu
[03:11] <sivang> bhale++ , it's hard to make it to their hearts from what I've seen.
[03:11] <sivang> e.g., noe easily convicned or acceptive
[03:13] <sivang> gnomefreak: fact is that many have caught it the wrong way, although it was probably with innocent of the wording, it could take long to fix what this can do
[03:13] <gnomefreak> but i also believe if opensuse was more mature than us in there eyes they would have let it go not respond with the bs they did. (mature for lack of a better word)
[03:14] <sivang> I want to try to get some more people to hack on it
[03:14] <gnomefreak> this may never be fixable just forgotten
[03:15] <sivang> gnomefreak: indeed, which is a pity
[03:15] <sivang> gnomefreak: because really, Mark is great and this is only a slip of tounge AFAICT
[03:15] <gnomefreak> jdong i think 
[03:15] <gnomefreak> i agree
[03:15] <bhale> you mean jono
[03:15] <gnomefreak> yeah
[03:15] <gnomefreak> ty
[04:19] <admin123> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Optimization?highlight=%28Optimization%29
[04:19] <admin123> nice
[04:29] <sivang> hmm, reading through http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html , it seems we will at least get the ability to interchangeably use OO and Office content..
[04:35] <sivang> bhale: it seems they are going to co-operate on mono , .NET and work together to create better integration of the two technologies, how is that bad?
[04:51] <Adri2000> why does colormake appear in updated merges at http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ? 0.2-4.2 in debian and 0.2-4.2ubuntu1 in feisty
[04:59] <sivang> Adri2000: are there any ubuntu specific changes?
[05:00] <Adri2000> sivang: yes, there is a small patch that is not in debian
[05:01] <sivang> Adri2000: so sombody probably had to merge the package, as in take the new version from debian and reapply the patch making sure it builds and runs fine.
[05:01] <sivang> Adri2000: that's probably the reason that it's on updated mergers, if not, than there might be a MoM slip off 
[05:01] <Adri2000> sivang: it is already merged!
[05:01] <sivang> Adri2000: you mean, the patch si alredy in debian?
[05:01] <geser> Adri2000: I assume mom is a little bit out of date
[05:02] <sivang> or that :)
[05:02] <Adri2000> sivang: no, but I merged this package, bug 73200
[05:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73200 in colormake "[Merge]  colormake 0.2-4.2ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73200
[05:02] <geser> it lists 0.2-4ubuntu1 and you uploaded 0.2-4.2ubuntu1
[05:02] <Adri2000> yes, 0.2-4ubuntu1 is the previous version in Ubuntu, but it was not uploaded by me
[05:03] <geser> perhaps a bug in mom
[05:03] <Adri2000> I think so
[05:03] <geser> it seems to run a new version
[05:03] <geser> the (lp) link was not there a few days ago
[05:05] <Adri2000> who is in charge of MoM?
[05:05] <gnomefreak> DaD?
[05:05] <gnomefreak> sorry had to
[05:05] <Adri2000> :P
[06:24] <adrian3> hi, I made my first package on revu, and I have a question: how long takes a package to get in the universe repo ? (how long takes to receive the 2 votes ?)
[06:25] <crimsun> adrian3: no ETA. Some packages languish for months, years.
[06:26] <crimsun> adrian3: you'll probably want to ask in the channel every couple weeks.
[06:26] <bhale> sivang: it is bad because of the patent indemnification allowing novell to ship "open" code that no one else can use
[06:27] <crimsun> adrian3: alternately, try to get the source package into Debian, and it'll be synced in (at the latest, in the next Ubuntu devel cycle) automatically
[06:32] <adrian3> crimsun: thanks for the answer
[06:33] <crimsun> we'll have another REVU day sometime
[06:50] <Q-FUNK> Bug #2620
[06:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2620 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf broken after upgrade to Breezy" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2620
[06:51] <Q-FUNK> this is getting old and, as far as I know, is fixed for everyone.  should I close it?
[06:54] <crimsun> Q-FUNK: yes, please
[06:58] <Q-FUNK> crimsun: thanks.
[06:59] <Q-FUNK> do we have a procedure for requesting backports to 606 LTS ?
[06:59] <bhale> To request a package to be backported to, for example, dapper-backports, please file a bug in [WWW]  Malone 
[07:00] <bhale> assign to 'ubuntu-backporters'
[07:00] <bhale> subscribe rather
[07:00] <Q-FUNK> against the package to be back-ported and assigned to ubuntu-backporters ?
[07:01] <bhale> subscribed to backporters
[07:01] <bhale> against the package
[07:50] <pianoboy3333> Where can I get the latest libnautilus-burn and libnautilus-extension?
[08:33] <ajmitch> morning
[08:33] <somerville32> Good Morning! :D
[08:36] <sivang> morning ajmitch 
[09:40] <joejaxx> Good AfterMorningNightNoon
[09:40] <joejaxx> to  all timezones
[09:40] <toitoine> Good night here :-)
[09:41] <toitoine> is there anyone that could give me a hint for a .schemas problem
[09:42] <toitoine> I don't manage to make it install
[09:42] <toitoine> in the good directory
[09:43] <XiXaQ> will Sun Java be included as default now that Sun has opened it and made it available?
[09:43] <ajmitch> in main? on the cd?
[09:43] <XiXaQ> included in main and installed by default?
[09:45] <ajmitch> XiXaQ: why would it need to be installed by default? java is large
[09:45] <ajmitch> the only reason things like that get installed by default is if we ship apps on the cd that need it
[09:46] <XiXaQ> Java is installed by default now, right? 
[09:46] <ademan> would someone be willing to repackage an upstream update for the eclipse-cdt for me? I swear to you i've been trying, but i can't get it to work, even better if you could give me a bash log so i can see how you did it.  thanks
[09:47] <ademan> i'd be happy to provide what i've been (trying) to do
[09:47] <tarball> Is the version of 'unionfs' in edgy broken, the version in the repository is 1.0.14 which is for the 2.4 kernel??
[10:18] <Adri2000> launchpad is laggy...
[10:20] <engla> hello. I posted a package I authored on revu. It's pretty stable and tested by me and others in dapper and edgy. Is there a chance that it can make it for universe in feisty?
[10:22] <phanatic> Adri2000: now it's dead :)
[10:22] <Adri2000> ^^
[10:23] <Adri2000> engla: yeah, you just have to wait that a motu review it
[10:23] <Adri2000> engla: you can give the link here
[10:23] <engla> okay, great. I was wondering when the "deadline" for feisty was
[10:23] <engla> its http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3517
[10:25] <Adri2000> the deadline is the universe freeze, but the date doesn't seem to be defined yet, according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
[10:26] <joejaxx> February :D
[10:26] <engla> ah ok
[10:27] <Adri2000> joejaxx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule it is cleary stated here
[10:27] <Adri2000> engla: there is no .diff.gz on revu
[10:28] <toitoine> hi here I'm making a package but my .schemas file goes into /usr/etc/ instead of /usr/share
[10:28] <engla> Adri2000: I didn't think there should be one. As I said, I'm the original author and the first packager
[10:28] <toitoine> I'm using dh_gconf
[10:28] <engla> so my tarball should be the original, thus no diff?
[10:28] <Adri2000> engla: there is a diff for all non debian native packages, at least for the whole debian/ direcotry
[10:28] <Adri2000> directory*
[10:29] <toitoine> anyone could help please ?
[10:29] <toitoine> as I understand it the .schemas file should go in /etc/gconf/schemas and dh_conf moves it
[10:29] <engla> hmm I don't know about this. the debian/ is in the orig tarball here. But that's right I think since this package is "original to ubuntu"; ie if I package it there is no upstream
[10:29] <toitoine> I'm right ?
[10:29] <engla> but I can check again
[10:30] <TheMuso> toitoine: Is it a package that uses the ./configure && make && make install method of building?
[10:30] <toitoine> TheMuso: no, autotools
[10:30] <TheMuso> But you do run the .configure script to prepare the apckage for compilation right?
[10:31] <toitoine> TheMuso: yes it's run at the end of autoconf
[10:31] <TheMuso> Ok. YOu need to re-run it, and give it the correct paths to the various locations.
[10:31] <TheMuso> I don't know how one references the gconf dir. Have a look at another package in the archive that has gconf schemas and see what it does.
[10:32] <TheMuso> You need to pass it the --prefix=/usr --datadir=/usr/share --sysconfdir=/etc or something like that.
[10:32] <Adri2000> engla: hmm, why whould it be only for ubuntu?
[10:32] <Adri2000> engla: is it only useful in an ubuntu environment?
[10:32] <toitoine> TheMuso: ok, I'll try 
[10:33] <toitoine> TheMuso: I'm giving --prefix=/usr
[10:33] <toitoine> but not --datadir=/usr/share
[10:33] <engla> Adri2000: nope, it's generally useful. But I am upstream and my original tarballs have always contained the debian/ directory. now I can accept that that is wrong
[10:34] <Adri2000> engla: I suppose that the sources are available somewhere on a website?
[10:34] <Adri2000> engla: and what is the license?
[10:34] <engla> sure, sec
[10:35] <engla> the website is below and the lic is GPL
[10:35] <engla> http://www.student.lu.se/~cif04usv/wiki/dragbox.html
[10:35] <Adri2000> engla: ok, so no, you shouldn't ship the debian/ directory in the original tarball
[10:36] <engla> I want to do that since that's "pre-packaging" it, even if it isn't in any distro (yet). So people can grab my sources and issue "dpkg-buildpackage .."
[10:37] <engla> so it's a service I think, and I don't see any harm in doing my general tarballs like that
[10:37] <engla> but.. I still could force the debian/ stuff to go into a diff, but I don't know how to do that yet
[10:39] <toitoine> TheMuso: Thanks you VERY much (I've been searching during 3 hours :-) )
[10:39] <Adri2000> engla: when we want to package a program which ship a debian/ directory, we usually ask upstream to remove it
[10:39] <engla> ah
[10:39] <TheMuso> toitoine: Did it go into the right dir? If so, thats great news.
[10:40] <toitoine> TheMuso: yes it now goes in the right dir
[10:40] <TheMuso> toitoine: Great.
[10:42] <engla> I'll ask myself to remove that and then go behind my back and add the same stuff again. ;-)
[10:43] <Adri2000> :-)
[10:45] <Adri2000> I think someone should write a "Why is it bad to ship the debian/ directory in the upstream tarball"
[10:47] <toitoine> Adri2000: I second that because I'm reading your talk with engla and I really don't understand
[10:47] <toitoine> I'm making a software and I should keep original tarball and /debian directory separated
[10:48] <toitoine> only using /debian when doing a package ? That's it ?
[10:49] <Adri2000> yes debian/ is for the packager, not upstream's work, even if sometimes upstream = packager
[10:50] <toitoine> ok, if that's the rule :-)
[10:50] <engla> but please, write the text
[10:51] <engla> I think I found the base of my view on it from somewhere in the debian packager's guide
[10:52] <Adri2000> the debian packager's guide saying that debian/ in upstream tarball is good?
[10:53] <engla> not like that no. :) I'm not sure that it mentions it, but I think it states that sometimes there is no diff if the package is original to debian
[10:53] <engla> but perhaps that means "specific for debian" (my dragbox is actually in arch, so it's not specific)
[10:54] <Adri2000> that's debian native package, and your program is not a debian native package
[10:57] <toitoine> Adri2000: sorry to insist but what's make a debian native package ? what's the difference if I'm upstream and packager ?
[10:58] <Adri2000> a debian native package is for instance dpkg
[10:58] <Amaranth> debian native would be dpkg
[11:00] <toitoine> not a .deb file you mean ?
[11:00] <Adri2000> read http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2001/01/msg00191.html and the answers
[11:01] <toitoine> ok, thanks
[11:02] <Adri2000> nice to see that the last answer was written by Colin Watson (https://launchpad.net/people/kamion) and that was in 2001! :)
[11:05] <toitoine> useful reading, should be in the "Docs to read to make a package" :-)
[11:06] <toitoine> ok, sorry to bother you again but I'm still having one last error : lintian is ok, but linda is still asking more :-)
[11:07] <toitoine> it's complaining about the changelog.gz which doesn't exist
[11:08] <toitoine> in fact the upstream changelog is "ChangeLog"
[11:08] <Adri2000> toitoine: is it a native package here or not? :)
[11:09] <toitoine> Adri2000: it's mine, I can make it became what I want but I have users asking for an Ubuntu deb file :-)
[11:10] <Adri2000> if it's native, there is only one changelog
[11:10] <toitoine> Adri2000: so solution should be to remove changelog in /debian ?
[11:11] <Adri2000> no, there is always a debian/changelog, it is either a "packaging" changelog, either the "real" changelog (with the actual changes in the program) if it's a native package
[11:12] <toitoine> Adri2000: I'm getting it : since I've removed the "-1" on the numbering there's no reason to have a debian changelog, that's it ?
[11:12] <toitoine> Adri2000: ok, reverse
[11:12] <Adri2000> if you remove the -1, then it's native
[11:13] <toitoine> Adri2000: I should continue with "debianization", then put my /debian files in place
[11:13] <toitoine> Adri2000: so there should be 2 changelog but that will be coherent...
[11:13] <engla> heh I wonder one more thing too
[11:13] <LaserJock> hi guys
[11:13] <LaserJock> you look like you could use some help
[11:13] <engla> the lintian file on revu doesn't match mine of course. Mine produces no output for the source package
[11:14] <Adri2000> toitoine: always debian/changelog, and if it's non native, a possible upstream changelog
[11:14] <Adri2000> hi LaserJock
[11:14] <toitoine> Adri2000: quite simple when you're starting to understand :-)
[11:14] <Adri2000> engla: yeah, lintian's revu is not up to date for feisty I think
[11:14] <engla> while the revu lintian complains about too high version for standards something (shoudl be fine I think), but also for something with arch-independent and dependend builddeps
[11:15] <toitoine> Thanks a lot for your help everyone
[11:16] <engla> (sorry for my sloppy writing there)
[11:17] <Adri2000> engla: your program is python?
[11:17] <Adri2000> +written in
[11:18] <engla> yes
[11:18] <Adri2000> so your rules is wrong because it does binary-indep
[11:18] <Adri2000> and you should follow the debian python policy
[11:18] <engla> I have to confess I don't know much about coupling autotools, python and debian packaging. but it works. 
[11:19] <engla> hm, but why doesn't my local lintian tell me that?
[11:19] <Adri2000> I'm not sure it is able to check all the things of the python policy
[11:19] <Adri2000> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/ and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[11:20] <Adri2000> engla: also, in the changelog, distribution should be feisty instead of unstable, and the version is, IMO, wrong, should't be native :)
[11:20] <engla> oh well
[11:21] <engla> this is messy. All the debianization scripts are smart, but they leave small stamps of debian everywhere which you have to circumvent
[11:21] <engla> so my version next time will be 0.2.3-0ubuntu1 ?
[11:22] <engla> (now 0.2.3)
[11:22] <Adri2000> yes, but when uploading your package to ubuntu for the first time, there should be only one changelog entry: "Initial release"
[11:23] <LaserJock> well, there doesn't *have* to be only 1 entry
[11:23] <engla> you know, this is confusing. I have to think like a whole distro or release team all by myself.
[11:24] <LaserJock> engla: ok, what's confusing you? let's go through it
[11:25] <LaserJock> engla: using lintian -i *.dsc gives you more info, btw
[11:26] <engla> well I think I am fine for now, I've got many things answered. It's confusing to be both upstream and packager and negotiate those :)
[11:26] <engla> lintian -i doesn't output anything extra in my case
[11:26] <engla> but I'm reading the python policy docs
[11:27] <LaserJock> engla: if you are upstream also I'd just recommend that you spilt the packaging from the source
[11:27] <engla> I will following this
[11:28] <LaserJock> everything you have to do to make a .deb should be in the debian/ folder and that shouldn't be included in the source tarball
[11:32] <engla> I'll have to keep the packaging versioned anyway and keep it in svn on gna.org anyway. Should I just keep the debian dir as a separate "module" there perhaps
[11:32] <LaserJock> yeah, that's a good idea
[11:33] <LaserJock> if you keep them together then any little change in the packaging will require a new release of your app's source
[12:03] <Adri2000> crimsun: err, the alternative build-dep isn't needed anymore?
[12:04] <crimsun> Adri2000: no, we have a transitional package.
[12:04] <Adri2000> ok