[02:04] <BenC> is lp choking or is it me?
[02:05] <yankees26> its choking
[02:05] <yankees26> i have reason to  believe its a hot dog stuck in the throat
[02:15] <BenC> looks like whatever it was got dislodged
[02:15] <BenC> maybe feed it smaller bites, or pre-chew it's food in the future :)
[02:17] <ajmitch> no, it still seems to be rather slow here, taking a couple of minutes at least to load a page :)
[02:27] <bluefoxicy> is there anything I should particularly know about creating something so it can easily be shifted into a launchpad module?
[02:32] <mpt> bluefoxicy, what do you mean by "a Launchpad module"?
[02:36] <bluefoxicy> mpt:  I don't know, I don't seem to have the source for launchpad so I'm guessing ;)
[02:36] <bluefoxicy> mpt:  I am considering, possibly, doing a quick sketch of how something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedProblemReportsTagging would work
[02:43] <bluefoxicy> eh I have a paper to finish, I'll worry about this later.
[06:21] <jamesh> BjornT: thanks for retrieving that bug description.
[06:24] <BjornT> jamesh: no problem. +edit still worked, so it wasn't hard.
[06:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73419 in launchpad "Allow locking of bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73419
[06:26] <jamesh> BjornT: I guessed you'd done something like that.  Good thinking :)
[06:26] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73420 in launchpad "We attempt to render ridiculously large chunks of user input" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73420
[06:29] <jamesh> maybe we could refuse bug comments containing the text "ProblemType: Crash" :)
[06:29] <mpt> jamesh, why would I get "ImportError: cannot import name testutil" (from importd.tests)?
[06:29] <jamesh> mpt: update the sourcecode/ subtrees?
[06:29] <mpt> Is there a quick way of updating all of them? :-)
[06:30] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73421 in launchpad "Feature: Revert to old state" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73421
[06:30] <jamesh> depends on how you created them
[06:30] <jamesh> I use lightweight checkouts for them against the rocketfuel-built tree, which means a simple "bzr update" is all that's needed
[06:31] <mpt> In this case, as a lightweight checkout
[06:31] <mpt> bzr update from sourcecode/?
[06:31] <jamesh> from each sourcecode/foo directory
[06:31] <mpt> darn
[06:33] <jamesh> how do you normally update the subtrees?
[06:34] <mpt> When someone mails launchpad@ and says "You need to update your X subtree", I go into that directory and use bzr pull
[06:34] <mpt> I haven't used bzr update before
[06:36] <mpt> Ok, "bzr update" for every subtree says it's up to date, but I still get the error
[06:37] <jamesh> mpt: if you aren't using checkouts for the subtrees, then "bzr update" won't do anything (the trees will be up to date with themselves)
[06:37] <jamesh> mpt: so use "bzr pull" then
[06:37] <mpt> This whole working directory is a lightweight checkout
[06:37] <mpt> So why wouldn't the sourcecode/ subdirectory consist of checkouts?
[06:38] <mpt> er, this whole branch, I mean
[06:39] <jamesh> mpt: your launchpad tree may be a lightweight checkout -- whether the trees under sourcecode/ are lightweight checkouts would depend on how you created them
[06:39] <jamesh> if you copied them from rocketfuel-built, then they'd be standalone trees
[06:41] <mpt> ahhh
[06:46] <mpt> Who has DB access other than stub?
[06:52] <mpt> jamesh, do you?
[06:52] <jamesh> don't seem to
[06:52] <jamesh> (I did back when I was doing the bug imports, but not any more)
[06:53] <mpt> So what's the procedure for spammers when stub is asleep? :-/
[06:53] <jamesh> email
[06:53] <jamesh> is it urgent?
[06:54] <mpt> Yes, bug 1 is being vandalized
[06:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[06:54] <jamesh> lifeless might be able to help
[06:55] <jamesh> mpt: I get a static page for that bug ;)
[06:57] <jamesh> mpt: the admins probably have access, but might not know what to do
[06:57] <mpt> crappity
[07:09] <mpt> but, yay for it being stopped for now
[07:11] <lifeless> whats up
[07:12] <lifeless> mpt: stub, all the admins, and I
[07:12] <mpt> lifeless, I was just belatedly concerned about the spamming of bug 1, but bug 1 is now static and the offender seems to have been deleted
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[07:12] <mpt> so, never mind
[07:12] <mpt> Alas, I predicted this a few days ago, but that was too late :-P
[07:13] <lifeless> heh
[07:14] <mpt> bug 73122
[07:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73122 in malone "Need strategy for stopping pandemonium in individual bug reports" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73122
[07:15] <mpt> Ugh, why do I get a conflict when merging sourcecode/bzr/?
[07:15] <mpt> Text conflict in bzrlib/tests/test_hashcache.py
[07:17] <jamesh> why are you merging?
[07:17] <lifeless> do a pull --overwrite mpt
[07:17] <mpt> "bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged"
[07:17] <mpt> oh
[07:17] <mpt> darn
[07:17] <mpt> I already merged and committed zope/, I hope that doesn't matter
[07:17] <mpt> Oh, I suppose I could just pull --overwrite that one too
[07:18] <lifeless> mpt: yes, you should
[07:18] <jamesh> mpt: in general, you shouldn't have to commit in the subtrees unless you're making changes to them
[07:18] <lifeless> mpt: unless you are developing on one of these branches
[07:20] <mpt> Now I have 3 "can't delete bzrlib/<something> because it is not empty" conflicts
[07:20] <mpt> (After reverting and --overwriting)
[07:20] <lifeless> mpt: delete them by hand, 
[07:20] <lifeless> mpt: 'bzr st' should show nothing when you are done
[07:20] <mpt> oh, it's just .pyc
[07:21] <lifeless> spiv: how goes it ?
[07:23] <mpt> Yay, now I have a different error
[07:23] <mpt> "No module named urlutils"
[07:24] <jamesh> mpt: have you updated your bzr?
[07:24] <mpt> yes
[07:24] <jamesh> bzrlib.urlutils is in the newer bzr
[07:24] <mpt> The saved location is on chinstrap, though
[07:25] <mpt> Is it more up to date on devpad?
[07:25] <jamesh> of course.
[07:25] <mpt> ok
[09:34] <SteveA> stub: ping
[10:02] <ddaa> Hello there
[10:03] <ddaa> SteveA: jamesh: spiv: lifeless: ping
[10:04] <lifeless> gnip
[10:04] <ddaa> Meeting?
[10:05] <lifeless> indeed
[10:06] <carlos> mornin
[10:06] <carlos> morning
[10:08] <SteveA> hi ddaa
[10:49] <lifeless> review meeting in 12 minutes
[11:05] <lifeless> review meeting time
[11:05] <SteveA> me
[11:05] <lifeless> sorry I'm a litle slow, massive headache
[11:06] <BjornT> hi
[11:06] <spiv> I thought "so" came after "me"? ;)
[11:06] <jamesh> hi
[11:06] <SteveA> spiv: yes, "fa" first
[11:07] <lifeless> == Agenda ==
[11:07] <lifeless>  * Roll call
[11:07] <lifeless>  * Queue status.
[11:07] <lifeless>  * Whitespace cleanup
[11:07] <lifeless> * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
[11:07] <SteveA> at the top
[11:07] <SteveA> the very top
[11:08] <lifeless> the queue is very big right now
[11:09] <lifeless> how are you guys going with the backlog ?
[11:10] <lifeless> SteveA suggests that you all look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ [presumably in case you have forgotten where it is :)] 
[11:10] <SteveA> I was actually thinking of the wiki page
[11:10] <SteveA> but still, I think it's useful to have a call to focus in a meeting
[11:11] <SteveA> I think we should consider a new meeting time, so francis and salgado can be here
[11:11] <lifeless> we can consider that
[11:11] <lifeless> I'll send mail tomorrow
[11:11] <SteveA> thanks
[11:12] <lifeless> for now though..
[11:12] <lifeless> spiv: you have 3 > 20 days in the queue. when are they going to be reviewed ?
[11:12] <lifeless> jamesh: you also have 3 > 20 days..
[11:13] <lifeless> SteveA: your pyrex branches will be reallocated as soon as either spiv or jamesh indicate a preference to do it.
[11:13] <spiv> Immediately, basically.  I have half of a (follow-up) review for ddaa's import-svn-safety written.
[11:13] <jamesh> I
[11:14] <jamesh> 'm working through my oldest two.  Will send out soon.  Will work on more tomorrow
[11:14] <spiv> And the other two look short, I expect to have them done tomorrow morning at the latest.
[11:14] <lifeless> cool.
[11:15] <jamesh> I'd like to knock some of my other reviews off before accepting the pyrex branch.
[11:15] <lifeless> I realise its a heavy load right after all hands... effect and cause.
[11:15] <lifeless> spiv: how do you feel about pyrex ?
[11:15] <spiv> I'm happy to take it.
[11:15] <lifeless> ok
[11:15] <lifeless>  * whitespace cleanup
[11:15] <lifeless> this is an item from some time back, jamesh was going to raise at the regular lp meeting.
[11:16] <lifeless> jamesh: ?
[11:16] <jamesh> spiv: If you haven't gotten to it by the time I've cleared out my queue, I can look at the pyrex branch.
[11:16] <jamesh> lifeless: I think this is old.  This was brought up a few weeks back (before allhands), and everyone agreed to the change.
[11:17] <spiv> jamesh: thanks, I'll punt it to you if it starts going stale.
[11:17] <lifeless> jamesh: ok.
[11:17] <lifeless>  * reviewers to discuss ideas and principles for keeping branch review quick (was on LP meeting agenda)
[11:17] <lifeless> jamesh: you added this. over to you
[11:17] <jamesh> SteveA asked me to add it
[11:18] <lifeless> SteveA: ?
[11:18] <jamesh> I think this was basically what we were discussing earlier
[11:19] <SteveA> yeah.
[11:19] <SteveA> we want people to make smaller branches to review
[11:19] <SteveA> divide their work into smaller chunks to land on mainline
[11:19] <SteveA> so a reviewer can see the correspondence between tests and interfaces and gui and code
[11:20] <SteveA> people will need help with this, so encourage calls to discuss how they'll break up the work
[11:20] <SteveA> encourage agreeing a written plan on this, if it will help
[11:20] <SteveA> I'm sure you'll have other ideas too
[11:23] <SteveA> done
[11:24] <lifeless> I agree with the goals
[11:24] <lifeless> not thinking well right now - headache as I mentioned.
[11:24] <lifeless> I suggest we all mull on this and discuss next week
[11:25] <lifeless> any other business - unless folk have comments on this now ?
[11:25] <lifeless> 5
[11:26] <lifeless> 4
[11:26] <lifeless> spiv: can you please assign the pyrex branches to yourself
[11:26] <spiv> ok
[11:27] <lifeless> 3
[11:27] <lifeless> thanks
[11:27] <lifeless> 2
[11:29] <spiv> The suspense is killing me.
[11:29] <lifeless> 0
[11:30] <lifeless> meeting over, thanks for coming
[02:38] <SteveA> matsubara: hi.  are you expecting kiko to be in soon?
[02:39] <matsubara> Hi SteveA, let me ask Taciana. I arrived yesterday and haven't seen him yet.
[04:34] <xerxas> Hi all 
[04:35] <xerxas> I would lke to request an "ambassador role" for packages 
[04:35] <xerxas> following discussions on  #ubuntu-classroom 
[04:38] <carlos> xerxas: I think you should ask at #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu
[04:38] <Hobbsee> carlos: he just got sent here from #ubuntu-classroom with the open day
[04:39] <carlos> hmmm
[04:39] <carlos> to launchpad?
[04:39] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:39] <carlos> ok, then I'm not the right person to answer....
[04:39] <xerxas> Hobbsee,  thanks :) 
[04:39] <carlos> cprov: ?
[04:40] <cprov> carlos: hey
[05:07] <kiko> hello warriors of bug #1
[05:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[05:08] <LarstiQ> heh
[05:08] <somerville32> Wrong channel :)
[05:08] <xerxas> is there a launchpad developper ? 
[05:09] <kiko> there are many
[05:09] <kiko> it's not like highlander
 I would lke to request an "ambassador role" for packages 
 following discussions on  #ubuntu-classroom 
[05:09] <xerxas> sabdfl and seb128 agrees with that 
[05:09] <kiko> tell me all about it
[05:10] <xerxas> what should I do so that request is not lost ? 
[05:10] <xerxas> kiko,  an ambassador role is like a mainteners except the ambassador reports bugs upstream 
[05:10] <xerxas> and develop good contacts with the upstream team
[05:10] <xerxas> kiko,  is there anything more you want ? 
[05:11] <kiko> xerxas!!!
[05:11] <xerxas> (this role is within malone only, If I understand correclty ) 
[05:11] <xerxas> kiko,  !!!! 
[05:11] <xerxas> :)
[05:11] <kiko> xerxas, so, that's a fabulous idea, and one that mdz and I have discussed many times
[05:11] <xerxas> and so ? 
[05:11] <kiko> so
[05:12] <xerxas> is it going to happen ? or what should I do so that it's being done soon or late ? 
[05:12] <kiko> here's a question for you: what does this differ from becoming a package bug contact?
[05:12] <xerxas> this is a questions for sabdfl  and seb128  probably :) 
[05:12] <xerxas> maybe the bug contact could filter questions from ubunteros to the ambassador 
[05:13] <xerxas> the ambassador have more an upstream role, the bug contact probably a downstream role 
[05:13] <xerxas> but that's only my point of view 
[05:14] <kiko> xerxas, shouldn't the "ambassador" get notifications of upstream bugs?
[05:14] <xerxas> maybe 
[05:14] <kiko> xerxas, because if so, we could just have the ambassador be the bug contact for the upstream product
[05:14] <xerxas> probably 
[05:14] <kiko> that that's all!
[05:14] <kiko> then the only thing necessary is to add a packaging link
[05:15] <kiko> and everything works as expected
[05:15] <kiko> hello mdz
[05:15] <kiko> speak of the devil
[05:16] <xerxas> sabdfl, are you here ? 
[05:17] <xerxas> can you see a difference between the "package bug contact" and "package ambassador role" ? 
[05:17] <xerxas> aside the name :)
[05:17] <kiko> xerxas, I think the ambassador role can use the launchpad bug contact functionality to function
[05:18] <kiko> the other part I think is important is to make clear what the ambassador should do
[05:18] <xerxas> kiko,  I'm not a launchpad master 
[05:18] <kiko> i.e. to have a documented process
[05:18] <mdz> kiko: morning
[05:18] <kiko> xerxas, that's fine -- we're here to help!
[05:18] <xerxas> kiko, I were attending the ubuntu-classroom , seb128 where talking about an ambassador for package 
[05:18] <xerxas> I suggested this appears in launchpad, and that's all 
[05:19] <kiko> I see now
[05:19] <kiko> I think that's a great idea.
[05:19] <seb128> kiko: the idea is to have a "point of contact" for a package
[05:19] <seb128> somebody upstream could mail when he wants to speak about its software and how it's packaged
[05:20] <kiko> seb128, would he also do bug forwarding, or is that separate?
[05:21] <sabdfl> xerxas: i would see the ambassador as a more general point of contact between ubuntu and the upstream
[05:22] <xerxas> seb128, thanks for clarifyng 
[05:22] <seb128> kiko: no, not bug forwarding
[05:22] <kiko> ah, okay.
[05:22] <sabdfl> for example, its often useful for us to know *which* version of a package is the best to aim for in a particular ubuntu release
[05:22] <kiko> that's indeed different.
[05:22] <seb128> rather pointing the person in contact with upstream
[05:22] <xerxas> sabdfl, that's pretty much my point of view, ambassador is upstream, bug contact is downstream (ubunteros) 
[05:25] <kiko> I see.
[05:27] <xerxas> kiko,  is that ok ? 
[05:28] <xerxas> did you got It ? 
[05:28] <xerxas> am I suppose to make a feature request anywhere ? 
[05:28] <kiko> xerxas, I still need to think a bit more about what launchpad could do to help you
[05:28] <xerxas> ok 
[05:28] <kiko> is it just having an "Upstream ambassador" slot?
[05:28] <xerxas> yes, think so 
[05:28] <kiko> what would this slot do?
[05:29] <sabdfl> kiko: yes, together with the means to work with that group as a community (i.e. mail them)
[05:29] <sabdfl> this is the "adopt and upstream" thing, i think
[05:29] <kiko> sabdfl, all the ambassadors of all packages, and the individual ambassador by package name?
[05:30] <sabdfl> yes, i imagine that would do it :-)
[05:31] <kiko> sabdfl, the adopt an upstream thing I specifically envisioned assisting bug reporters moving bugs upstream
[05:31] <kiko> so this is different
[05:31] <kiko> I think it's a good idea
[05:32] <kiko> but wonder if we couldn't conflate the two and get two hits for the price of one
[05:32] <xerxas> have to go guys 
[05:32] <xerxas> bye ! 
[05:37] <gnomefreak> i just started a spec for LP on package ambassadors here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/package-ambassador the wiki isnt done yet but i will continue on it sometime today. 
[05:37] <sabdfl> i think we already have upstream bug contacts
[05:37] <kiko> hey gnomefreak 
[05:37] <gnomefreak> hi kiko 
[05:37] <sabdfl> so the adopt-an-upstream idea was to be a general ambassador
[05:38] <kiko> we do have upstream bug contacts but it's not clear that they are the people to be notified when we want to forward bug reports to an upstream bugtracker
[05:38] <gnomefreak> they dont ever seem real active with bugs that i have seen
[05:39] <gnomefreak> mainly with bugs the qa team does most of it but we rarely ever contact upstream we just send bugs upstream
[06:00] <YoussefAssad> would it make sense to write a job description (but call it something more acceptable) for the sake of clarity for that role, ambassador?
[06:02] <YoussefAssad> My $DEITY, there's a HOWTO on encouraging women?
[06:04] <kiko> yeah, the spec should definitely have a job description.
[06:04] <YoussefAssad> Could probably draft something
[06:05] <YoussefAssad> Anyone else doing work which would overlap that?
[06:05] <kiko> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/package-ambassador
[06:10] <ddaa> matsubara: oh my... was this interesting! https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/600
[06:11] <ddaa> there is no bound to what people with too much free time can achive
[06:18] <YoussefAssad> kiko: yes, I saw that. Bit thin on detail though (which, admittedly, could be a desirable state)
[06:18] <kiko> YoussefAssad, luckily it's a wikipage! :)
[06:18] <YoussefAssad> free time? What is free time?
[06:19] <YoussefAssad> kiko: I can take a hint! :) Okay, let me see what I can whip up in a day or two
[06:19] <SteveA> ddaa: I'd suggest that drawing attention to worthless abuse on a public channel plays to the intention of the abuser.
[06:20] <danilos> ddaa: that looks like macedonian ;)
[06:20] <YoussefAssad> so there'd essentially be an ambassador per package? Where one person could map to multiple ambassadorial posts, of course
[06:20] <ddaa> SteveA: I just find this one so extreme it's funny.
[06:20] <kiko> I did too
[06:20] <kiko> I wonder what he meant though
[06:20] <kiko> which site?
[06:28] <YoussefAssad> I'm looking at this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/launchpadambassadors   and wondering if there's a spec spec, or if I can just run in there and append sections pertinent to an eventual SoW/JD for the ambassadorial role
[06:33] <jordi> danilos: hey
[06:34] <danilos> jordi: heey pretty boy, how's it going?
[06:34] <jordi> danilos: if you're going to be around for some more time, there's the Rosetta session in 1.5 hours.
[06:34] <jordi> there'll be a Q+A session after I dump my text; if you can be around for extra support, that'd be good :)
[06:35] <danilos> jordi: sure, though I am not sure I understand what you mean by "Rosetta session"
[06:35] <danilos> :)
[06:35] <jordi> Ubuntu Open Week
[06:35] <jordi> dude
[06:35] <kiko> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[06:35] <kiko> danilos, wake up
[06:35] <danilos> jordi: ah, right
[06:35] <danilos> kiko: kiss me to wake me up :)
[06:36] <danilos> ah, yuck, now I am woken up :)
[06:36] <YoussefAssad> heh
[06:37] <jordi> it sucks that just 2 hours before your talk your wireless thingy blows up and you have to doo all the session in a not so comfy table
[06:37] <YoussefAssad> Listen, question people if you don't mind. Is there a format for specs on the wiki which is preferred^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H insisted upon?
[06:38] <kiko> there's a specification template
[06:38] <danilos> jordi: tell me about it: I had my phone line supposedly changed to ISDN today, but it turned out completely broken, and my ADSL is not working, so I am now connected via my old ISP, and if I don't want to re-set-up everything, this means cable as well
[06:39] <jordi> heh
[06:39] <YoussefAssad> yes, I see it nicely laid out here:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/launchpadambassadors . I'm just wondering if I should append a morevdetailed role description there, or if structure nazis would persecute me
[06:39] <jordi> you're back to isdn?
[06:39] <jordi> wtf?
[06:39] <danilos> jordi: no, wifi internet
[06:40] <danilos> jordi: the speed is fine, but this ISP breaks a lot, and my ap is not set-up to share that connection, so I have to plug cable in
[06:40] <YoussefAssad> is it normal for Canonical to keep people waiting three days for information about commercial support, incidentally?
[06:40] <YoussefAssad> there's a chap on #ubuntu-marketing sitting on a 50 node ubuntu HA cluster who apparently wants to buy support
[06:41] <SteveA> ubuntu-marketing is not the best way to get in contact with commercial support
[06:41] <YoussefAssad> I know, he was in there to see if the marketing people would be interested in documenting his cluster
[06:42] <YoussefAssad> He apparently sent an inquiry using an online form. Anyhow, what do I care, I'm with Grameen, not Canonical!
[06:42] <YoussefAssad> dinnertime
[06:42] <SteveA> YoussefAssad: he wanted to buy support, or get documentation?
[06:42] <SteveA> I'm confused
[06:42] <AlinuxOS> hello all, is there new version of rosetta in some time ?
[06:42] <kiko> SteveA, documenting his cluster as a case study.
[06:43] <YoussefAssad> SteveA: jerom1 is the nick if you're curious
[06:43] <YoussefAssad> SteveA: Being in #ubuntu-marketing was for a different thing entirely, asking if his cluster was worth using for marketing purposes. Two distinct issues
[06:43] <YoussefAssad> Dinner, really.
[07:19] <kiko> hey SteveA 
[07:29] <kiko> ddaa, ping?
[07:36] <carlos> kiko: ping
[07:36] <kiko> carlos, yes?
[07:37] <carlos> kiko: do you have some time for an UI problem I got while fixing translation reverting?
[07:37] <kiko> sure. what's up?
[07:38] <carlos> kiko: so, I'm adding too the 'locking' feature we talked for po imports to the translation form
[07:38] <carlos> and I'm not completely sure what's the best option to show a message to the user when someone else changed a string while they were translating
[07:39] <carlos> with our current UI
[07:39] <kiko> carlos, so the workflow is: user loads page, other user uploads, user posts page, boom, right?
[07:39] <carlos> with TranslationReview UI it's quite easy, because I have a place for current translation, and another for the submitted value
[07:39] <carlos> kiko: user uploads or other user submits
[07:39] <kiko> ah, ok
[07:39] <carlos> kiko: but yeah, that's the idea
[07:39] <kiko> right.
[07:40] <kiko> and you want to display these conflicting changes specially, right?
[07:40] <carlos> the problem is how to represent current translation + submitted value
[07:40] <carlos> yeah
[07:40] <YoussefAssad> erm, the package ambassadors; wouldn't their role overlap with ubuntu packge maintainers to an extent?
[07:40] <carlos> the current value would appear as Currently used without changes
[07:40] <carlos> but there is no way to detect which one is selected in this context
[07:41] <carlos> from the UI perspective
[07:41] <kiko> how about: /!\ Another user submitted a modification to this string while you were editing it. Please review the change below and modify as necessary.
[07:41] <carlos> so we lose what they submitted
[07:41] <kiko> do we lose it?
[07:41] <carlos> hmm
[07:42] <carlos> 'review change below'
[07:42] <kiko> right
[07:42] <carlos> I thought you mean to revert the textarea content to the active translation
[07:42] <kiko> well.. you could do that too. I'm not sure what the option is; just suggesting warning the user is a good idea
[07:44] <carlos> well, I already know that is a good idea to show a warning ;-)
[07:45] <carlos> another option would be
[07:45] <carlos> to leave it as I have it right now
[07:45] <carlos> which sucks a bit
[07:45] <carlos> and wait for TranslationReview to get a less sucky UI
[07:46] <carlos> so I don't expend time in a UI that will be die with TranslationReview (but that will be good for the users)
[07:46] <carlos> so I could say: 'Please, review the suggestions and submit the form again if you prefer to use your changes'
[07:47] <carlos> kiko: what do you think?
[07:48] <kiko> hold on
[07:48] <carlos> ok
[08:07] <carlos> kiko: ?
[08:07] <carlos> I need to leave
[08:10] <carlos> kiko: please, ping me if you have more input on the issue.
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73509 in rosetta ".po file export doesn't update cached files" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73509
[08:29] <kiko> carlos, my feeling is that TranslationReview is going to land tomorrow, and therefore, there's no need to do work before that. If it's not landing tomorrow, well, we have a lot of chatting to do.
[08:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #73519 in rosetta "Change translations to approved post membership acceptance to translation team" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73519
[09:18] <tonyyarusso> jordi: here
[09:18] <jordi> ok
[09:18] <jordi> so, tonyyarusso wants to learn more about our plans to support dialects
[09:18] <tonyyarusso> Indeed I do :)
[09:18] <jordi> tonyyarusso: just to have some background, I'm one of the main Catalan translators,
[09:19] <jordi> but, oh no! am Valencian
[09:19] <tonyyarusso> Otherwise I think the Elders will be at my throat...
[09:19] <jordi> so being able to produce ca@valencia translations easily from the existing ca translations would be rad
[09:19] <jordi> what's your usecase?
[09:21] <tonyyarusso> I'm not actually a speaker (yet), but am trying to get a translation effort started for Anishinaabe (Known in English as Ojibwe (various spellings).  Also related to Odawa, Mississauga, and Cree, and less closely, Algonquin.
[09:22] <jordi> so you want to translate to Ojibwe, Odawa, etc. reusing as much as possible?
[09:22] <tonyyarusso> This is an indigenous language in Canada and the United States, I believe the 4th most spoken or so.
[09:22] <tonyyarusso> Actually, it's worse than that.
[09:23] <tonyyarusso> By some arguments Odawa is a dialect of Ojibwe, others say it's a separate language.  Regardless, there are many dialects _within_ Ojibwe, on top of it's relations to other languages.
[09:23] <tonyyarusso> The amount of difference between things varies.
[09:23] <jordi> okay, complicated scenario it is :)
[09:24] <jordi> so what would you expect from rosetta?
[09:24] <tonyyarusso> The separate language/dialect line is fuzzy, but no matter how you slice it there is a huge number of subdivisions to be considered.
[09:24] <tonyyarusso> I'm trying to limit my scope: I won't worry about Cree or Algonquin, but probably include Odawa.
[09:25] <tonyyarusso> Given that, I need probably 5 or so dialects - lemme check my book here
[09:25] <jordi> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/similar-languages
[09:25] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/57925
[09:25] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57925 in rosetta "Request: Cascading Translations" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
[09:26] <jordi> tonyyarusso: have a look at those
[09:26] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, we have Northern, South-Eastern, Central, Plains, and Chippewa recognized as the significant dialectical areas.
[09:26] <tonyyarusso> ok
[09:26] <tonyyarusso> Sometimes it's just a matter of one different letter in spelling, for others (esp newer words) the word may be completely different ("computer" for example)
[09:28] <jordi> right
[09:28] <tonyyarusso> jordi: btw, the similar languages linked wiki page isn't available to me
[09:28] <jordi> so a workflow would be you translate to one of the languages, and then derive
[09:28] <jordi> tonyyarusso: oh, right
[09:29] <tonyyarusso> It would be nicer if they could be developed in a parallel manner.
[09:29] <tonyyarusso> For instance, you tell LP all of the dialects for your language, and then when translating strings have (in this case) 5 rows to input.
[09:30] <jordi> maybe you can describe what your workflow would be like in the bug reporty
[09:30] <jordi> that'll help us when implementing
[09:30] <tonyyarusso> If three of the rows are the same, just copy and paste them there, rather than having to go to a separate language page
[09:30] <tonyyarusso> I'll do that.
[09:30] <jordi> I see
[09:30] <jordi> that should be doable
[09:31] <jordi> I really hate that the specs are public, and all of them have a "Read More" link which isn't public.
[09:31] <jordi> I might bring that up formally for our next meeting
[09:33] <tonyyarusso> People are working on standardizing the language, but dialects are a very touchy subject culturally, so I certainly don't want to offend anyone by not having theirs, but there's no good way of avoiding it as it stands now.
[09:33] <jordi> yeah, it's a hot issue
[09:34] <jordi> tell me... :/
[09:36] <tonyyarusso> So you said it's a low priority - what kind of time frame are we talking about?
[09:37] <danilos> jordi: "bring it up" means putting it in MeetingAgenda ;)
[09:37] <jordi> tonyyarusso: it's very difficult to estimate
[09:37] <jordi> months, I'd say
[09:38] <jordi> danilos: because, what he wants (three languages at once) wouldn't fit in 2h-slot right? :)
[09:38] <danilos> jordi: guess not; it's a workflow that's not anything we have actually considered so far
[09:39] <jordi> yeah
[09:39] <jordi> and just implementing three boxes would be a bit lame. There should be some specific features like checkboxes to copy across all variants
[09:39] <jordi> ie, to avoid massive cut+paste
[09:41] <danilos> jordi: well, now that I think of it, I'd prefer if it was one "general" input box, and then you add only differences to other dialects (i.e. "Show input box for this dialect since it differs")
[09:41] <danilos> but, a couple of spec-voip-sessions would probably be due
[09:42] <jordi> yeah
[09:43] <tonyyarusso> danilos: I like that idea.  Heck, if you could just sed stuff that would work for some things.
[09:59] <dabear_> hi
[10:00] <dabear_> I am experiencing some timeouts on launchpad...
[10:00] <dabear_> has happened about three times the last hour
[10:04] <matsubara> dabear_: which page? do you have the OOPS id?
[10:04] <dabear_> sorry, not anymore :p happened while translating gaim and deluge to norwegian..
[10:08] <matsubara> dabear_: it's likely to be bug 30602, but without the oops id I can't say for sure.
[10:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
[11:24] <lotusleaf> hello, anyone awake?
[11:26] <lotusleaf> I made a mistake with my first time using launchpad and made https://launchpad.net/products/kdar and would like it removed because kdar already exists in another place, I was going to file a bug and didn't know where to look but it's here https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
[11:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[11:30] <flacoste> lotusleaf: file a support request for that at https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+addticket
[11:30] <flacoste> one of the launchpad admin will take care of this
[11:30] <lotusleaf> flacoste: thank you very much =)
[11:46] <lifeless> spiv: there are 3 pyrex branches
[11:48] <lifeless> lotusleaf: that does not look like a mistake to me ..
[11:48] <lifeless> lotusleaf: why do you want it removed ?
[11:48] <lotusleaf> lifeless: no? oh, I thought it was because kdar is mentioned here https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdar/+bug/62699
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62699 in kdar "[edgy]  wrong dependencies in kdar" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[11:48] <lotusleaf> lifeless: because I thought kdar already exist @ url I just referenced above ^^
[11:49] <lifeless> lotusleaf: products/kdar is the 'upstream', and 'distros/ubuntu/+source' is the 'in-distribution' records
[11:49] <lifeless> its appropriate to have both, so that we can report on things like 'a new upstream release has happened but is not in the distro'
[11:49] <lotusleaf> lifeless: oh, really?
[11:49] <lotusleaf> lifeless: so I didn't make a mistake, then, after all? :)
[11:49] <lifeless> not at all. How can we make it more clear that we want this ?
[11:50] <lifeless> you should go to https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/+launchpad 
[11:50] <lotusleaf> lifeless: thank you for this kind advice
[11:50] <lotusleaf> lifeless: ok I am there, what next
[11:50] <lifeless> this is part of KDE right ?
[11:51] <lotusleaf> lifeless: how may I withdraw my support request to have that removed ?
[11:51] <lotusleaf> lifeless: yes
[11:51] <lifeless> let me see now, give me a second
[11:51] <lotusleaf> sure, thank you =)
[11:51] <lifeless> kdar is different to karchiver right ?
[11:52] <flacoste> lotusleaf: to remove your request, simply go to it, add a message explaining that isn't needed anymore and click 'I Solved My Problem'
[11:52] <lotusleaf> yes, karchiver is different
[11:52] <flacoste> s/add/enter/
[11:52] <lotusleaf> flacoste: thank you
[11:52] <flacoste> my pleasure :-)
[11:52] <lifeless> I'm just seeing about linking this to the kde project
[11:53] <lifeless> but the field seems to have disappeared on me
[11:53] <lotusleaf> lifeless: http://directory.fsf.org/kArchiver.html
[11:53] <lifeless> lotusleaf: go to https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/+edit
[11:54] <lifeless> put kde in the project field
[11:54] <lotusleaf> lifeless: k
[11:54] <lifeless> that should make it inherit the KDE bugtracker settings
[11:54] <lotusleaf> ok
[11:54] <lotusleaf> that much is done
[11:55] <lifeless> yup - see the right hand side bar
[11:55] <lifeless> 'Bug Tracker'
[11:55] <lotusleaf> yes
[11:55] <lifeless> now, when someone forwards the bug upstream, malone knows how to fetch updates for it
[11:55] <lotusleaf> ah, I see, thank you =)
[11:55] <lifeless> if you click on 'trunk'
[11:55] <lotusleaf> thanks for walking me though it
[11:56] <lotusleaf> ok, clicked on trunk
[11:56] <lifeless> sorry, my link is way slow
[11:56] <lotusleaf> np
[11:56] <lifeless> and then edit source
[11:57] <lotusleaf> ok
[11:57] <lifeless> you can put in the SVN details.
[11:58] <lifeless> and if you go to 'edit series details'
[11:58] <lifeless> you can tell launchpad how to find new releases using the 'Release URL pattern' field
[11:58] <lotusleaf> which would be http://svn.sourceforge.net/kdar
[11:58] <lotusleaf> right?
[11:58] <lifeless> no
[11:59] <lifeless> you need to name the branch
[11:59] <lifeless> probably .../trunk
[11:59] <lotusleaf> ah, I haven't used svn before, only cvs, and only briefly =)
[11:59] <lotusleaf> so I'd add http://kdar.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kdar/trunk/
[11:59] <lotusleaf> ?
[12:00] <lifeless> no, it looks like sourceforge do something d ifferent
[12:00] <lotusleaf> ok, may I omit this information then?
[12:00] <lifeless> thats the WEB ui for sourceforge svn.
[12:00] <lifeless> sure, you can omit it
[12:00] <lotusleaf> yeah
[12:00] <lotusleaf> ok thx but thx for covering this part
[12:01] <lotusleaf> is there anything else I should do for it at this point?
[12:01] <lifeless> everything is optional
[12:01] <lifeless> I was just pointing you at things that help launchpad do more for you
[12:02] <lifeless> :)
[12:02] <lotusleaf> and I appreciate it very much, thank you =) So each package should be listed at launchpad twice, then?
[12:02] <lotusleaf> one in products/ and the other in distros/ubuntu ?
[12:04] <lifeless> lotusleaf: oh yes, I forgot one important link to make.
[12:04] <lotusleaf> lifeless: go for it =)
[12:04] <lifeless> from https://launchpad.net/products/kdar/trunk
[12:04] <lifeless> click on 'link to ubuntu package'
[12:04] <lotusleaf> ok
[12:05] <lifeless> the svn URL for sourceforge kdar looks like : https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kdar/trunk
[12:06] <lifeless> put 'kdar' in the source package field ;)
[12:06] <lotusleaf> oh, so just kdar?
[12:06] <lifeless> yup, its the first url segment after '+source/' on the distro side
[12:06] <lotusleaf> simple enough =D
[12:07] <lifeless> I've put the svn url in for you
[12:07] <lotusleaf> ok done
[12:07] <lifeless> I tested it by doing 'svn ls https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kdar/trunk'
[12:07] <lotusleaf> thx =) =)
[12:07] <lifeless> np
[12:08] <lotusleaf> lifeless: I appreciate you walking me though this, it was very kind of you =)
[12:08] <lotusleaf> lifeless: and, it turns out my blunder was not a mistake at all =)
[12:08] <lifeless> happy to help. Pass it forward :)
[12:08] <lotusleaf> lifeless: indeed =)
[12:09] <lifeless> and to answer the question, yes, each package should be listed twice - once in the distro, and once in products
[12:09] <lotusleaf> lifeless: thanks =)
[12:09] <lotusleaf> lifeless: I take it this is something that hasn't been done as frequently as desired?
[12:09] <lifeless> they need that link - the last step - done, beforce launchpad knows they are related.
[12:10] <lifeless> lotusleaf: well, its something that takes time, theres 16000 packages :). So if each person interested in a few packages takes the time to do it... its easy
[12:10] <lotusleaf> lifeless: interesting, I should have to look into this. :)
[12:11] <lifeless> I have to go now - see you later
[12:11] <lotusleaf> lifeless: have a good one and again thank you =)
[12:11] <lifeless> no probs. tchau.