[12:17] <jmarsden> I'm very new to Ubuntu (but not to Linux or to programing).  I'm trying to understand dependencies in Ubuntu.  In Edgy, ubuntu-minimal depends on alsa-base which depends on lsof.   lsof is not  a direct deoendency  of ubuntu-minimal -- shouldn't it be?  Or am I confused about what ubuntu-minimal is?
[12:19] <mr_pouit> jmarsden: ubuntu-standard depends on lsof
[12:20] <mr_pouit> ubuntu-standard: 
[12:20] <mr_pouit>  This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu standard system.
[12:20] <mr_pouit>  This set of packages provides a comfortable command-line Unix-like
[12:20] <mr_pouit>  environment.
[12:20] <mr_pouit> is more "essential/minimal" than ubuntu-minimal I think
[12:21] <jmarsden> mr_pouit: Yes... but either ubuntu-minimal installs with a missing dependency, or it will pull in lsof, and it claims  "This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu minimal system"
[12:22] <jmarsden> So, is lsof in the Ubuntu minimal system, or not??  Have I found a trivial bug???
[12:25] <mr_pouit> :/
[12:26] <jmarsden> Oh well, thanks.
[12:26] <mr_pouit> jmarsden: lsof has : "Priority : Important", not essential... so maybe a system can work without it
[12:26] <mr_pouit> (I don't know ^^")
[12:28] <LaserJock> jmarsden: a dependency of a dependency is implied to be a dependency
[12:29] <LaserJock> so ubuntu-minimal doesn't have to explicetly list dependecies that are dependecies of somthing that it already depends on
[12:29] <LaserJock> if that makes any sense :-)
[12:30] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: do you have beryl crack/
[12:30] <Burgundavia> ?
[12:30] <bhale> hello, Burgundavia 
[12:30] <Burgundavia> hey bhale
[12:34] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: does Userful still use mostly Fedora? or was it RHEL
[12:34] <Burgundavia> fedora, about to move to 6
[12:34] <LaserJock> ok, sorry
[12:35] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:35] <Burgundavia> no worries
[12:35] <LaserJock> I was downloading the Fedora6 dvd and I remembered that you said they used fedora there
[12:35] <Adri2000> the global sync from debian is still not finished?
[12:35] <Burgundavia> I really should pull down the dvd
[12:35] <crimsun> Adri2000: context?
[12:37] <LaserJock> Adri2000: we are still merging/syncing
[12:38] <Adri2000> python-diacanvas2... but wait, I'm trying to understand all the things :p
[12:38] <crimsun> diacanvas2 is synced with sid.
[12:39] <Adri2000> diacanvas2 |   0.14.4-4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Sources
[12:39] <Adri2000> diacanvas2 |   0.14.4-4 | http://ftp.fr.debian.org unstable/main Sources
[12:39] <Adri2000> that's ok
[12:39] <Adri2000> but my pbuilder wasn't ok with that two seconds ago...
[12:39] <Adri2000>  -> Considering  python-diacanvas2 (>= 0.14.4)
[12:39] <Adri2000>       Tried versions: 0.14.2-2ubuntu1
[12:40] <Adri2000> not built yet maybe?
[12:40] <Adri2000> erf, FTBFS!
[12:42] <Adri2000> crimsun: this FTBFS has to be fixed first, but I was going to request a sync for gaphor, could you check?
[12:45] <crimsun> check what?
[12:46] <Adri2000> if I can request a sync, a motu has to ack
[12:47] <crimsun> ...do you want me to check a sync request for gaphor?
[12:47] <crimsun> (you mention two different things in that previous part)
[12:48] <Adri2000> yes
[12:48] <LaserJock> Adri2000: does gaphor need diacanvas2?
[12:49] <Adri2000> yep, that's how I discovered the problem with gaphor ^^, I know I must not request the sync until diacanvas2 is fixed
[12:50] <LaserJock> ok, so then it's pointless for crimsun to check the sync until diacanvas2 is fixed, right?
[12:51] <Adri2000> yeah, it's not really a high urgency :)
[12:51] <crimsun> gaphor is syncable from sid right now.
[12:51] <crimsun> it will just ftbfs until diacanvas2 is fixed
[12:52] <crimsun> (when the depwait is satisfied, then gaphor will be rebuilt automatically)
[12:53] <Adri2000> so the sync request can be done now?
[12:53] <LaserJock> true, but if you don't know if it even builds (regardless of the diacanvas2 issue) ...
[12:54] <crimsun> it's fine to request a sync if you know the Ubuntu changes have been subsumed.
[12:54] <LaserJock> true
[12:54] <LaserJock> but it's not as nice as knowing that the thing actually builds
[12:54] <LaserJock> :-)
[01:02] <Adri2000> none of you know pkgc_version_check()?
[01:07] <geser> Adri2000: : Hobbsee|Remote will yell a you when a sync request does not build
[01:07] <Adri2000> I know it won't build
[01:29] <LaserJock> oh my gosh, talk about a bad email
[01:29] <LaserJock> that kqemu post on -devel is going to get some flaming :-)
[01:30] <crimsun> I've killfiled -devel, because it's just crack at this point.
[01:31] <crimsun> may as well unsub at this rate.
[01:31] <ademan> would one of you kind souls be able to help me with a pbuilder build  error?
[01:31] <ademan> rather, a dpkg-buildpackage
[01:31] <crimsun> I can understand the frustration at the open* stuff, but ffs, shut up already.
[01:32] <LaserJock> ademan: what's up?
[01:32] <ademan> LaserJock: i'll paste you the log, i dunno if its the right url as firefox is being retarded, but hold on
[01:32] <ademan> http://rafb.net/paste/results/AkqTrW15.html
[01:33] <crimsun> line 21
[01:33] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I have no idea why it' hasn't been shut down and sent elsewhere
[01:33] <erik1397> LaserJock:  I asked jdong if really was in charge of tovid, and he said that he's not, it was a mistake...but if someone can help him, that would be great.
[01:33] <crimsun> tar is literally expecting "../upstream/*.tar.gz"
[01:34] <ademan> crimsun: is there any way i can fix that?
[01:34] <LaserJock> erik1397: so he's not working on it?
[01:34] <crimsun> so either pass tar a specific filename explicitly, or use a shell loop
[01:34] <ademan> well
[01:34] <ademan> how would i do that? considering i'm not calling tar, pbuilder is
[01:34] <ademan> or is that part of the rules script?
[01:35] <crimsun> that's part of the build target in debian/rules
[01:35] <ademan> so i could modify it
[01:37] <ademan> crimsun: for one its trying to change into the "source-tree" directory which doesnt exist
[01:37] <erik1397> LaserJock: i PMed him on the forums.  here was my exact message: "Hey I see now that on here: http://revu.tauware.de/ you uploaded tovid. Does that mean that you're the sole packager? Is anyone gonna help you out? Are you responsible for making a ubuntu repo-quality tovid package for the upcoming feisty release?"
[01:38] <erik1397> and here's his message: No, it was a mistake that made that package land on revu. *.dsc sorta grabbed tovid instead of the ktorrent I was looking at. Please contact some #ubuntu-motu guys and beg for packaging help 
[01:38] <erik1397> please help a man out in need! :)
[01:39] <ademan> crimsun: well i made a folder upstream within the package dir and then put in the upstream tarball, and it worked, but the log says "unrepresentable changes" dunno if that's necessarily a bad thing though
[01:39] <crimsun> ademan: yes. unrepresentable changes cause the generation of the source package to bail.
[01:40] <ademan> :-/
[01:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why would the kqemu mail come in for flames?
[01:40] <ademan> i feel like starting over
[01:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock: the author may be gently redirected elsewhere :)
[01:41] <LaserJock> haha
[01:41] <LaserJock> did you see all the lists he sent it to?
[01:43] <ajmitch> yeah, just saw that
[01:43] <ajmitch> it's a little bit silly
[01:46] <ajmitch> I'm surprised at how many mails there are about binary drivers, and especially nouveau
[01:52] <LaserJock> it's all rather messy
[01:52] <LaserJock> makes me depressed
[01:53] <ajmitch> a good case for a devel-posting-only list
[01:53] <LaserJock> I see on fedora's planet "As you know, the next ubuntu release will not be a free Linux distribution"
[01:53] <LaserJock> well, it isn't just the ML though
[01:54] <ajmitch> I know
[01:54] <ajmitch> this binary driver issue is bringing a lot of pain
[01:55] <ajmitch> & the invitation to opensuse developers
[01:56] <LaserJock> well, tbh I've started looking at other distros for the first time since I started working on Ubuntu
[01:56] <LaserJock> at least looking at what other distros are doing
[01:57] <ajmitch> looking to jump ship?
[01:57] <LaserJock> I've had my Ubuntu "blinders" on for over a year
[01:57] <LaserJock> not particularly
[01:57] <LaserJock> I love Universe and you guys enough that'd take a lot
[01:57] <ajmitch> we don't realise how much ubuntu sucks sometimes :)
[01:58] <LaserJock> well, if anything made me jump ship it'd probably be Canonical
[01:58] <ademan> i don't understand the hang up on binary drivers, yes they're evil, but i can totally see WHY they're being included
[01:58] <zul> ajmitch: blaspehmy
[01:59] <ademan> i mean, i spend way too much time on digg.com and time and time again it's "does ubuntu support your graphics card by default yet?"
[01:59] <ajmitch> zul: admit it
[01:59] <zul> ajmitch: yeah sometimes
[01:59] <LaserJock> ademan: it is an issue if you believe strongly in open source software and see installing binaries as giving away all our bargaining power
[01:59] <ademan> LaserJock: i know, but the way i see it it can help linux (and specifically ubuntu) gain a wider audience
[01:59] <ademan> and with a larger market share you actually have MORE bargaining power
[01:59] <ajmitch> at what cost?
[02:00] <LaserJock> sure, we can be MS and gain a wider audience
[02:00] <LaserJock> it is a benifiet vs. cost thing
[02:01] <LaserJock> anyway, the actual issue isn't the issue to me
[02:01] <LaserJock> I usually run the binary drivers anyway
[02:01] <ademan> i run them, because i'm an openGL dev...
[02:01] <LaserJock> but it's how we handle the issue that I'm not so excited about
[02:01] <ademan> i can't "out of principle" lack 3d acceleration
[02:02] <LaserJock> that's fine
[02:02] <LaserJock> but the issue is what we "force" people to do
[02:03] <ajmitch> if I as a developer complain about the binary driver, I might as well do something about it
[02:03] <LaserJock> do we make them do a little work to get the 3D accel because we are sticking to our guns
[02:03] <ademan> ajmitch: how? we don't have anything resembling specs do we?
[02:03] <ajmitch> ademan: you wouldn't believe the RE effort they did
[02:03] <ademan> RE?
[02:03] <ajmitch> most of the functionality is worked out
[02:03] <jmarsden> ademan: Reverse Engineering
[02:03] <ademan> ah
[02:03] <_MMA_> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
[02:03] <ajmitch> reverse engineering, in the sense of watching what the nvidia driver sends to the card
[02:04] <ademan> clean room?
[02:04] <ajmitch> not code disassembly
[02:04] <ademan> i pledged 10 bucks to it, for whatever the heck its worth
[02:04] <ajmitch> ademan: pretty much nothing
[02:04] <ajmitch> that pledge was setup by some person, and the nouveau developers found out later
[02:04] <ademan> heh
[02:05] <ajmitch> so while they have worked out a lot, there's still a *long* way to go
[02:05] <ademan> i was just thinking
[02:05] <ademan> couldn't they use GLDebugger?
[02:05] <ademan> just change it around a bit?
[02:05] <ademan> er wait, gotta think about that for a sec
[02:05] <ajmitch> this tool (renouveau) watches at a lower level, I suspect
[02:06] <ademan> no, it just catches GL calls, not the actual bits sent across the bus anyways
[02:06] <ademan> so yeah itd' be useless
[02:06] <ajmitch> ah, that's not nearly enough
[02:06] <ajmitch> this tool looks at the command FIFOs on the card
[02:06] <LaserJock> wow, how boring ;-)
[02:06] <ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
[02:07] <LaserJock> clearly I'm not a hardware guy
[02:07] <LaserJock> :-)
[02:07] <ajmitch> hehe
[02:08] <ademan> ajmitch: will noveau be LEGAL? at least to distribute
[02:09] <ajmitch> ademan: sure, why wouldn't it?
[02:09] <ademan> since my understanding is driver code contains a LOT of IP
[02:09] <ajmitch> it's not looking at the driver code
[02:09] <ajmitch> only at what gets sent to the card
[02:09] <ajmitch> quite different
[02:09] <ademan> right, but it will be implementing the same stuff
[02:10] <ajmitch> so would any driver
[02:10] <ajmitch> saying that something would be illegal because it can talk to a hardware interface is stretching things a lot, even with current IP law
[02:10] <ademan> well its not the talking part that i'm worried about
[02:11] <ademan> but say that there's some technique used in the current drivers that's subject to IP laws
[02:11] <ajmitch> I don't think that nvidia would want the PR disaster that would result
[02:11] <ademan> and we for whatever reason are FORCED to re-implement that same thing
[02:12] <ademan> i don't know enough about the related laws
[02:12] <ademan> but i'm thinking like mpeg codecs, yes its all our code, but its DOING the same thing
[02:12] <ademan> if that makes any sense
[02:12] <ajmitch> you worry that there would be patent violations in the driver?
[02:14] <ademan> i guess, i don't really even know what to call what i'm worrying about
[02:16] <ademan> it would be really cool if noveau released openGL LM and openGL 3.0 drivers before nvidia...
[02:16] <ajmitch> unlikely
[02:17] <ademan> i dunno, for linux their drivers will most likely be late
[02:18] <ademan> and openGL LM is going to be a breeze for driver developers
[02:18] <ademan> openGL 3.0 a bit harder
[02:18] <ajmitch> how far away are they meant to be?
[02:19] <ademan> both are changing the entire object model
[02:19] <ademan> i dunno if you're familiar with openGL
[02:20] <ademan> but for instance glBindTexture(GL_TEXTURE_2D, SomeTexture);  glTextureImage2D(...);  would fill up a texture with image data
[02:20] <ademan> in openGL LM (and probably 3.0 as well)
[02:20] <ademan> it will be more like
[02:20] <ademan> glTextureImage(SomeTexture, ...);
[02:20] <ajmitch> that will make things fun for app developers
[02:21] <ademan> its going to be a LOT less complicated
[02:21] <ademan> but also far lower level
[02:21] <ademan> (openGL LM anyways)
[02:21] <ademan> i'm really excited about OpenGL LM
[02:22] <ademan> LM is Lean and Mean
[02:22] <ademan> they're gonna ditch immediate mode, display lists, vertex arrays, and a bunch of other old crap, like polygon stipple
[02:23] <ajmitch> useful
[02:23] <ademan> i'm gonna personally miss vertex arrays, but they're easily emulated with a dynamic vertex buffer object
[02:23] <ademan> and that's how they're implemented internally anyways
[02:24] <ademan> display lists were "useful" for like 2 years, and then vertex arrays came along and they were unneccesary
[02:24] <ademan> LM and 3.0 are gonna get fun things like geometry shaders and true instancing
[02:25] <ajmitch> by which stage they'll be supported in most common hardware :)
[02:25] <ademan> right
[02:25] <ademan> which will be sufficiently awesome
[02:26] <ajmitch> unlike my cheap card
[02:26] <ademan> haha
[02:26] <ademan> what card?
[02:26] <ajmitch> geforce 6600
[02:26] <ademan> hehe
[02:26] <ademan> same
[02:26] <ademan> except mine's a go
[02:26] <ajmitch> or the i915 in the laptop
[02:28] <ademan> ouch
[02:28] <ademan> but hey, geometry shaders would be easy to implement for an integrated card
[02:28] <ademan> especially since its open source drivers
[02:28] <ademan> i mean, geometry shaders are just meant to reduce the amount of info sent over the card bus
[02:29] <ademan> since with an integrated card there is no card bus, it shouldnt be a performance hit at all to just implement it on the cpu
[03:02] <joejaxx> ajmitch: LaserJock are you around?
[03:04] <ajmitch> maybe
[03:06] <joejaxx> should i maybe fluxbuntu-desktop a dependency of the settings package?
[03:06] <joejaxx> i am just wondering whether i should do that or not
[03:06] <joejaxx> because if someone installs fluxbuntu-desktop
[03:07] <joejaxx> and removes a package like rox it will remove fluxbuntu-desktop and the settings package
[03:07] <joejaxx> if i make it a dependency
[03:09] <joejaxx> oh ok
[04:00] <fernando> hi all
[04:03] <ajmitch> hello
[04:03] <LaserJock> hi fernando, Hobbsee, ajmitch 
[04:04] <Hobbsee> hey LaserJock!
[04:04] <bhale> hello
[04:04] <LaserJock> hi bhale 
[04:06] <fernando> hi LaserJock 
[04:10] <joejaxx> ajmitch: how do i sign the release file manually
[04:11] <joejaxx> gpg -abs Release Release.gpg
[04:11] <bhale> debsign
[04:11] <bhale> oh
[04:12] <bhale> Release
[04:12] <joejaxx> on a release file?
[04:12] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:12] <joejaxx> a releae file
[04:16] <joejaxx> i/win 32
[04:16] <joejaxx> bah
[05:50] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i complete the fluxbuntu-* packages
[05:50] <joejaxx> now it is time for debugging
[05:50] <LaserJock> \o/
[05:50] <ajmitch> yay
[05:51] <joejaxx> Unpacking fluxbuntu-desktop (from .../fluxbuntu-desktop_0.4_i386.deb) ...
[05:51] <joejaxx> Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/wdm_1.28-2.1_i386.deb
[05:51] <joejaxx> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[05:51] <joejaxx> LOL
[05:51] <ajmitch> well that's uninformative
[05:52] <joejaxx> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/wdm_1.28-2.1_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config', which is the diverted version of `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real'
[05:52] <ajmitch> you pasted everything but the actual error
[05:52] <joejaxx> darn it
[05:52] <ajmitch> better..
[05:53] <joejaxx> ie
[05:53] <joejaxx> you have to install wdm first
[05:53] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: why doesnt it work?
[05:53] <joejaxx> because
[05:53] <joejaxx> i need to have as a dependency in fluxbuntu-default-settings
[05:53] <joejaxx> that wdm needs to be installed first
[05:54] <joejaxx> other wise it will do the diversion
[05:54] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: hm?
[05:54] <joejaxx> error like that
[05:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: what's broken in vmware?
[05:54] <joejaxx> and error*
[05:55] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: modules not compatible with 2.6.19, I did what should be the fix, but networking is somewhat broken still
[05:55] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[05:55] <ajmitch> differences in checksumming
[05:55] <ajmitch> aha
[05:56] <ajmitch> found a vmware patches dir
[05:57] <ajmitch> needs to be CHECKSUM_PARTIAL
[06:04] <joejaxx> ajmitch: dpkg-divert --remove --rename --divert /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real /etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config
[06:04] <joejaxx> that is the ccorrect way to remove a divert right?
[06:04] <joejaxx> :(
[06:06] <LaserJock> joejaxx boldly goes where no one has gone before ...
[06:06] <joejaxx> yeah
[06:06] <joejaxx> and it has messed up apt
[06:06] <joejaxx> lol
[06:06] <joejaxx> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/wdm_1.28-2.1_i386.deb: trying to overwrite `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config', which is the diverted version of `/etc/X11/wdm/wdm-config.real'
[06:07] <joejaxx> i want to remove that
[06:07] <joejaxx> bahumbug
[06:07] <crimsun> TheMuso: (please also mention the subsumption of libxinerama-dev in qiv 2.0-6)
[06:08] <LaserJock> gosh, I didn't realize how expensive laptop AC adaptors were :/
[06:09] <joejaxx> who here is good with dpkg-divert?
[06:11] <joejaxx> bah
[06:13] <LaserJock> joejaxx: the simple fact of the matter is you will now know probably more than anybody about it right now
[06:14] <ajmitch> mostly because it's a hack
[06:14] <Lathiat> LaserJock: sometimes you can get generic ones
[06:15] <joejaxx> ajmitch: oh ok
[06:16] <joejaxx> who devised this hack?
[06:16] <joejaxx> might be time to join debian and see if anyone know
[06:16] <joejaxx> there
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[06:48] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
[06:49] <dholbach> Hobbsee: hey Sarah!
[06:49] <dholbach> how's it going?
[06:49] <Hobbsee> good :)
[06:51] <LaserJock> Lathiat: I went to Best Buy today and the cheapest one I found was $83 USD
[06:51] <Lathiat> LaserJock: mm nice
[06:51] <LaserJock> I was thinking like $10 or $20 max :/
[06:51] <LaserJock> unrealistic expectations I guess
[06:52] <Lathiat> i would have tho up to around $50
[06:52] <LaserJock> dholbach: guten Morgen
[06:52] <LaserJock> Lathiat: well, I found a few for around $40 online
[06:52] <LaserJock> but even newegg had it for $90
[06:53] <dholbach> hey LaserJock :-)
[06:57] <imbrandon> LaserJock: i had tyo buy one for my ibook and the cheapest i found was 95$
[06:58] <imbrandon> online or not
[06:58] <imbrandon> moins all
[06:58] <LaserJock> that sucks
[06:58] <Lathiat> ibooks are pretty specific tho IIRC
[06:58] <imbrandon> not really, all apples arround that time took the same one
[06:58] <LaserJock> tons of things have AC adaptors, I just didn't think it'd be that expensive
[06:58] <imbrandon> just as all mbp now have the same etc
[06:59] <imbrandon> luckly i found one on ebay for $50, but still
[06:59] <imbrandon> kinda sucked
[06:59] <imbrandon> at the time
[07:02] <imbrandon> hrm ...
[07:30] <Simon80> anyone have any recommendations about statically linking ffmpeg in a deb package?
[07:31] <Simon80> stepmania needs a specific version, so I was going to just include the source for it with the package, and then build it in debian/rules, but that's probably frowned upon, right?
[07:44] <Simon80> imbrandon: ping?
[07:44] <lifeless> Simon80: why not just depend on that version ?
[07:44] <Simon80> cause then I'd have to package it up too
[07:44] <imbrandon> Simon80: pong
[07:44] <lifeless> Simon80: isn't ffmpeg already packaged?
[07:45] <Simon80> yeah, but later ver
[07:45] <Simon80> oh, and they patch it
[07:45] <imbrandon> ffmpeg should be packaged, i wouldent stacily link it, just strongly version it
[07:45] <imbrandon> the depends that is
[07:45] <Simon80> yeah
[07:45] <imbrandon> like lifeless said
[07:45] <Simon80> but then I'd have to have that package then
[07:45] <imbrandon> no you would have to get your patches in ffmpeg :)
[07:45] <imbrandon> should already be packaged
[07:46] <Simon80> yes, but not 0.4.9-pre1
[07:46] <lifeless> Simon80: sounds like stepmania needs to be fixed more than anything else :)
[07:46] <Simon80> yeah, I know
[07:46] <Simon80> I'm thinking that as well
[07:46] <Simon80> but I don't feel like doing it, lol
[07:47] <Simon80> I'll talk to a dev about it now
[07:47] <Simon80> and by a dev, I mean the dev I happen to be already talking to
[07:49] <Burgundavia> upstream ffmpeg recommends you copy ffmpeg into your source
[07:49] <Burgundavia> lifeless: ^
[07:49] <Burgundavia> Simon80: ^
[07:49] <Simon80> thank you
[07:49] <lifeless> Burgundavia: holy crap
[07:50] <Burgundavia> yes, they are that crazy
[07:50] <Simon80> yeah
[07:50] <Simon80> lol
[07:50] <Simon80> I love using ffmpeg, but indeed
[07:50] <Simon80> ok, I'm just gonna do what I said I would then
[07:50] <Burgundavia> http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/download.html
[07:50] <Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: i use it for converting .flv files
[07:50] <Simon80> me too
[07:51] <Simon80> ffmpeg2theora is what I do
[07:51] <Simon80> saves me having to type
[07:51] <Admiral_Chicago> it makes the whole "no good flash in linux" problem go away for me
[07:52] <Simon80> not really
[07:52] <Simon80> >fl7 flv files don't work in ffmpeg
[07:52] <Admiral_Chicago> well i go to keepvid.com and I use that
[07:52] <Simon80> ffmpeg can't decode them, I mean, techinically
[07:52] <Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: really? I haven't come across that yet
[07:53] <Simon80> yep
[07:53] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: wow thats fskin amazing, they are nuts
[07:53] <Simon80> lol
[07:53] <Simon80> lazy is more accurate, isn't it?
[07:53] <Burgundavia> yes they are
[07:54] <Burgundavia> they also don't believe in releases or a stable API/ABI
[07:54] <imbrandon> heh 
[07:54] <imbrandon> i'm glad i dont have to deal with their headaches much
[07:55] <Simon80> metacafe wins worst circumvention of internet portability award
[07:56] <LaserJock> well, I'm off for the evening, good night MOTU Land
[07:56] <imbrandon> gnight LaserJock 
[07:56] <imbrandon> have fun
[07:57] <somerville32> :)
[07:57] <Simon80> http://lln-videos.metacafe.com/ItemFiles/%5BFrom%20www.metacafe.com%5D%20308780.2267666.11.flv
[07:57] <Simon80> for admiral_chicago
[07:57] <Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: let me check it out
[07:58] <Admiral_Chicago> what exactly is this?
[07:58] <Simon80> uh... random vid
[07:58] <Simon80> IIRC, jaguar vs crocodile clip
[07:58] <Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: okay cool, i'll code it later on, i'm doing calc homework
[07:58] <Simon80> prolly that fictional documentary one... what a cheesy idea for a show
[07:58] <Simon80> http://1024k.de/bookmarklets/video-bookmarklets.html
[07:59] <Simon80> OT, but that's the bookmarklet I use
[08:00] <Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: http://asuaf.org/~jj/blog/index.php/2006/01/08/convert-google-video-flvs-into-avi-mpg-etcin-linux/
[08:00] <Admiral_Chicago> ignoring alll the installing stuff
[08:00] <Simon80> oddly enough, ffmpeg2theora handles the badness more gracefully, grabs the audio stream but no video
[08:00] <Simon80> ffmpeg alone just segfaults
[08:01] <Burgundavia> likely different versions of ffmpeg
[08:01] <Simon80> admiral_chicago, that would work for me, bit like I said, the issue isn't my arguments to ffmpeg, it's flash video 9
[08:02] <Simon80> I have no problems with google
[08:02] <Simon80> video*
[08:02] <Simon80> the easiest way to get a decent vid out of it is ffmpeg2theora inputfile if you ask me, but I've done it like ffmpeg -i input output.avi as well
[08:03] <Admiral_Chicago> yes i understand the thing is that i have yet to have ffmpeg fail on me so i do command line. 
[08:03] <Admiral_Chicago> i assume ffmpeg2theora is a GUI app?
[08:03] <Simon80> see above where I say ffmpeg2theora inputfile? that's the calling syntax
[08:04] <Simon80> it dumps ${inputfile/.flv/.ogg} into the working directory
[08:04] <Simon80> Like most open source projects FFmpeg suffers from a certain lack of manpower. For this reason the developers have to prioritize the work they do and putting out releases is not at the top of the list, fixing bugs and reviewing patches takes precedence. Please don't complain or request more timely and/or frequent releases unless you are willing to help out creating them.
[08:04] <Simon80> lol
[08:08] <Admiral_Chicago> Simon80: i've been around F/OSS to know that what we get in non-nogotiable :P
[08:09] <Admiral_Chicago> well it's bed time for me. night
[08:11] <Simon80> yeah, me too, sort of, I still try though
[08:11] <Simon80> but I'm not a whiner
[08:13] <Admiral_Chicago> I help as much as I can and get involved in projects I like
[08:13] <Admiral_Chicago> oh well it's bed time
[08:25] <Simon80> can someone tell me about kopete and the lack of jingle support in ubuntu?
[08:25] <Simon80> I tried to google about it earlier today
[08:25] <Burgundavia> jingle requires telepathy, it is coming
[08:25] <imbrandon> it required an older jingle lib than whats in ubuntu
[08:25] <Simon80> oh
[08:25] <imbrandon> kopete*
[08:25] <Simon80> so what about what burgundavia is saying?
[08:26] <Simon80> jingle is here
[08:26] <Simon80> just not in kopete
[08:26] <Simon80> I assume you meant that the support requires telepathy?
[08:26] <Burgundavia> Simon80: kopete is going to use telepathy soonish
[08:26] <Simon80> ah
[08:26] <Simon80> which is good I guess?
[08:27] <Simon80> bottom line is it'll be in feisty?
[08:27] <Burgundavia> yes, telepathy is good. Unknown as to timeframe
[08:27] <Simon80> boo
[08:27] <Simon80> why not get the existing jingle support working before then?
[08:27] <Burgundavia> bug the kopeete people
[08:28] <Simon80> but it's not them, kopete has jingle support
[08:28] <imbrandon> because as i said kopete needs an old jingle , and they have no intrest in fixing it before telepathy :)
[08:28] <Simon80> ah
[08:28] <imbrandon> yes it is Simon80 
[08:28] <Simon80> hrm
[08:28] <Simon80> why don't you guys just statically link in bad situations like this?
[08:28] <imbrandon> trust me i have been bugging them since dapper
[08:28] <imbrandon> Simon80: because thats evil
[08:28] <Simon80> lol
[08:29] <StevenK> Because static linking leads to hate.
[08:29] <Simon80> wouldn't users rather have a statically linked thing than no support for jingle at all?
[08:29] <StevenK> It also leads to pitti screaming.
[08:29] <Simon80> and I don't mean static everything, just that one lib
[08:30] <imbrandon> sure if you have developers willing to suprt such a feasico
[08:30] <imbrandon> ( that will never happen )
[08:30] <imbrandon> you would need kde , debian, ubuntu and pitti all to agree
[08:30] <imbrandon> :)
[08:30] <Simon80> pitti?
[08:30] <imbrandon> security guru
[08:30] <Simon80> oh
[08:30] <Simon80> I see, ok, that's enough about that
[08:30] <Simon80> argument won
[08:31] <Simon80> somewhat
[08:31] <Simon80> I mean, if there's a sec issue, you can update kopete
[08:31] <imbrandon> point is there are people looking at making it work soon, its not just soon enough :)
[08:31] <imbrandon> Simon80: sure if you happen to rember its staicly linked
[08:31] <Simon80> lol
[08:32] <Simon80> I suppose nobody's working on a good way to track what things are statically linked
[08:33] <imbrandon> that and when things like the zlib vunerability came out a few years ago , every MS app had to be updated, whereas on linux only one lib :)
[08:33] <Burgundavia> Simon80: there was some work done in main during the dapper cycle
[08:33] <StevenK> imbrandon: And some things like dpkg
[08:33] <imbrandon> StevenK: yea, but MUCH less :)
[08:34] <Simon80> indeed, I agree about that
[08:34] <imbrandon> i still thought that particualr one was funny as hell
[08:34] <Simon80> I love how the debian way is so much less dirty
[08:34] <Simon80> and yeah, I would find it funny, but it's not, it's sad, cause it's on everyone's box
[08:34] <Simon80> I do gloat about it though
[08:35] <imbrandon> not everyones, i dont ahve any windows installes atm :)
[08:35] <imbrandon> but yea i know what you mean
[08:35] <imbrandon> its not a perfect world yet
[08:36] <imbrandon> man , i'm having trubble finding a computer to buy, StevenK wanna help me search the lazy web ? heh
[08:36] <imbrandon> i want to make a 4 core system 
[08:36] <imbrandon> e.g. 2 dual core proc
[08:36] <imbrandon> i dont really care if its intel or amdx2's but i dont wanna spend over 2k for the whole system
[08:37] <StevenK> I wasn't aware SMP dual-core boards were out. :-)
[08:37] <imbrandon> i'm not sure either, that may be why i'm haing trubble :)
[08:37] <imbrandon> having*
[08:37] <imbrandon> i was thinking i seen somewhere you could do it with amdx2's though, i could be wrong
[08:39] <StevenK> Looking at motherboards at my local, I see nothing.
[08:40] <StevenK> I think, at least in the short team, you're dreaming.
[08:40] <imbrandon> probably
[08:41] <imbrandon> i seen just now some early 2007 4 core intel chips but they look terrible
[08:41] <imbrandon> no on chip mem , one fsb , etc etc etc
[08:41] <imbrandon> hum
[08:42] <imbrandon> so i guess the question is now , amdx2 or core 2 duo
[08:42] <StevenK> 'one fsb' means only one Front Side Bus?
[08:42] <imbrandon> sorta
[08:42] <imbrandon> yea thats what i typoed but not really ment
[08:42] <imbrandon> :)
[08:42] <imbrandon> e.g no HT
[08:42] <imbrandon> is more correct
[08:43] <imbrandon> lol
[08:43] <StevenK> HT is a processor thing, it's nothing to do with the FSB.
[08:43] <imbrandon> right, thats why i said i typed that but not really ment it
[08:43] <imbrandon> brb more dew
[08:44] <PuMpErNiCkLe> o.O
[08:44] <PuMpErNiCkLe> Dual core dual chip boards have been out for years...
[08:45] <PuMpErNiCkLe> There was even a review where they tried mixing single and dual cores on a single board.
[08:45] <StevenK> I have this feeling it didn't work.
[08:45] <StevenK> The S in SMP is *Symmetric*.
[08:46] <PuMpErNiCkLe> No, it didn't work out so well.
[08:49] <PuMpErNiCkLe> http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/28/are_three_cores_better_than_two/page3.html
[08:49] <imbrandon> wow i'm suprised that booted
[08:54] <imbrandon> wow the xbox360 has 3 ppc core's also ? i always thought they had to go in pairs
[08:54] <imbrandon> guess not
[09:43] <imbrandon> hrm
[09:43] <imbrandon> wenty though the apple store and customized an Mac Pro, turned out to be $16k
[09:43] <imbrandon> lol
[09:43] <imbrandon> wont be getting that any time soon
[09:44] <imbrandon> was pretty impressive though
[09:44] <Burgundavia> 16k wtf!
[09:44] <imbrandon> hahah yea
[09:44] <imbrandon> thats whay i said
[09:45] <Burgundavia> did you have gold plated mice and keyboard?
[09:45] <imbrandon> 16gb ram, 3tb hdd space , 2x 3ghz proc etc
[09:45] <imbrandon> dual 30in apple cinama displays
[09:45] <imbrandon> etc
[09:45] <imbrandon> pretty much the top of everything
[09:46] <Burgundavia> ah, I see
[09:46] <imbrandon> looking at the market though, i really think the computer i get next month will be a mac
[09:46] <imbrandon> probably a desktop replacemnt laptop
[09:47] <imbrandon> like a high end mbp or something
[09:47] <Burgundavia> umm
[09:47] <Burgundavia> why not go with a linux-friendly vendor, like system76?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> I certainly intend to buy my next machine from them or Lenovo
[09:48] <imbrandon> apple hardware if pretty linux friendly , i looked at leveno , i just cant find what i really want from them
[09:48] <imbrandon> i havent checked out system76's yet though
[09:49] <Burgundavia> apple is not a linux friendly company, however
[09:49] <imbrandon> more than alot of them are 
[09:49] <imbrandon> they atleaste foster foss moreso
[09:49] <imbrandon> maybe not linux but floss in general
[09:50] <imbrandon> yea i know not 100%
[09:50] <imbrandon> but its better than some of the evils out their
[09:50] <Burgundavia> apple is probaby one of the worst companies you could support
[09:50] <imbrandon> why is that ?
[09:50] <imbrandon> i have always supported apple
[09:51] <Burgundavia> drm out the yingyang with their itunes stuff and dicking around the opendarwin people
[09:52] <imbrandon> opendarwin screwd themselfs, they still are hosting the open source parts themselfs at apple.com and will continue to doso
[09:52] <Burgundavia> they are getting better, but their drm stance is not getting any better
[09:53] <imbrandon> and i could really care less about drm to be honest as long as i can use it the way i want, and apple lets me do that, windows dosent
[09:53] <Burgundavia> not to mention, their support is bloody awful
[09:53] <Burgundavia> right
[09:53] <imbrandon> i mean drm to me is TOTALY ewvil, it depends on how its used
[09:53] <Burgundavia> but by buying their hardware, you are doing 2 things: 1) support a drm-friendly company 2) not give business to a linux friendly companyh
[09:54] <imbrandon> and imho apple does it the leaste evil way of any of them
[09:54] <Burgundavia> apple uses drm to lock out competitors
[09:54] <Burgundavia> that is almost more evil than just locking out pirates
[09:54] <imbrandon> i dont see it that way
[09:54] <imbrandon> but ok
[09:54] <ogra> Burgundavia, do you know a website for system76 ? some people asked me here in poland about preinstalled ubuntu notebooks but i seem not to be able to find a homepage in google
[09:54] <Burgundavia> you must agree with the "voting with your dollars" bit
[09:55] <imbrandon> ] apple also used drm to keep the prices down on muisic too
[09:55] <Burgundavia> http://system76.com/
[09:55] <imbrandon> this last round
[09:55] <ogra> hmm, funny
[09:55] <Burgundavia> no, apple led the labels down a garden path
[09:55] <ogra> why didnt i find that last week ?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> drm has nothing to do with pricing
[09:55] <imbrandon> i wouldent mind buying from system76 but when i talked to them at UDS about what i wanted they simply dident offer it
[09:56] <imbrandon> sure it did
[09:56] <imbrandon> since the labels were locked into apples drm they pretty much had to keep them at 99c
[09:56] <imbrandon> or not online at all
[09:56] <Burgundavia> apple locked labels into those prices due to skillful negotiation and a failure for labels to see how big the business was
[09:56] <imbrandon> the ball bounces both ways
[09:56] <Burgundavia> nothing at all to do with DRM
[09:57] <imbrandon> right but they were locked in via the drm , they cant just jump ship, point is that apple does good and bad, its atleaste not 100% evil, i can think of far worse things
[09:57] <Burgundavia> I agree apple is not wholly evil
[09:58] <Burgundavia> you just have to realize the consequences of your purchases
[09:58] <somerville32> Do you think it would be possible for me to get curl backported to edgy?
[09:58] <Burgundavia> something most people are very bad at
[09:58] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: i do and i do
[09:58] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: then do something about that
[09:58] <imbrandon> no i fully understand, i just dont take the same stance as you 
[09:58] <Burgundavia> tell system76 what you need
[09:58] <imbrandon> i did Burgundavia 
[09:58] <imbrandon> i had a long talk with them at UDS
[09:58] <Burgundavia> if you need something, you are probably not the only dev that needs it
[09:59] <imbrandon> yup that was some of what we talked about
[09:59] <imbrandon> ( full disclosure i do own a system76 box too )
[10:01] <imbrandon> and my main concern err point or what ever you want to call it is , between apple and dell and toshiba etc , apple is the lesser of the evils
[10:01] <imbrandon> imho
[10:01] <imbrandon> because they atleaste do some good for the consumer, do support floss to an extent ( even if its not linux ) etc
[10:02] <imbrandon> no they arent 100% godlike
[10:02] <imbrandon> etc
[10:02] <Burgundavia> I would rather purchase a lenovo thinkpad
[10:02] <imbrandon> but no one really is in this industry
[10:02] <Burgundavia> the one with opensuse
[10:02] <Burgundavia> or sled, or whatever N is calling it this week
[10:02] <imbrandon> nope i wont buy that one, it has a MS tax on it
[10:02] <Burgundavia> no it doesn't
[10:03] <Burgundavia> it has no MS or OS X tax on it
[10:03] <imbrandon> if it has suse on it it does
[10:03] <Burgundavia> right, but it does send the message that Linux is wanted
[10:03] <Burgundavia> remember, outside of our little squabbles, the Linux community is viewed as a solid whole from without
[10:03] <imbrandon> the wrong message opverall though, i would rather purchae and use osx then purchase suse in any form
[10:04] <Burgundavia> ie: lack of interest in one distro means no distro will get support
[10:04] <Burgundavia> trust me on that one
[10:04] <imbrandon> maybe so, but i feel more strongly about not buying suse than not buying windows its self
[10:04] <imbrandon> wrong or right, thats how i feel
[10:05] <imbrandon> ( and i came to ubuntu from many years of opensuse dev and use, long before all this novel cruft )
[10:05] <Burgundavia> I respect that, but recognize the commercial realities outside our little Linux bubble\
[10:06] <imbrandon> i see them, thats why i have such a hard time sometimes
[10:06] <imbrandon> specialy since i have some great personal friends that actualy work for novel
[10:06] <imbrandon> but it still sucks
[10:06] <somerville32> I have a question :)
[10:06] <imbrandon> somerville32: shoot
[10:06] <somerville32> imbrandon: Could you explain the restrictions on backports to me? The wiki page is kind of fuzzy :)
[10:07] <Burgundavia> oh, I agree not having a first tier vendor support Ubuntu sucks
[10:07] <Burgundavia> but lets work towards that, and currently the route to that involves SLED
[10:07] <imbrandon> somerville32: basicly if it can be build in a pbuilder with no source changes and no other libs etc are needed to be backported its good
[10:07] <imbrandon> but its on a case by case somerville32 mostly
[10:08] <somerville32> Well, there is a bug that would be fixed by backporting curl from feisty to edgy
[10:08] <imbrandon> somerville32: well can it be fixed with a small sru ? that would be the "best" way, if not then a backport can be done
[10:09] <somerville32> I'm not familiar with the meaning of sru.
[10:09] <imbrandon> sru == small patch , backport if it requires a new version to fix
[10:09] <somerville32> Ah, yeah
[10:09] <imbrandon> stable release update
[10:09] <somerville32> It can be fixed with a small patch
[10:09] <StevenK> It also depends on how serious the bug is.
[10:09] <imbrandon> then the sru route would be better as -updates is enabled by default and everyone would get the fix
[10:09] <imbrandon> StevenK: right
[10:10] <imbrandon> Burgundavia: true, i dont like that fact but your right
[10:14] <imbrandon> hrm i might call the system76 guys tomarrow, their is a system thats close to what i want
[10:14] <imbrandon> *thinks*
[10:16] <imbrandon> ohhhhhhh StevenK they have it
[10:16] <imbrandon> a dual proc, dual core system
[10:16] <imbrandon> ok Burgundavia you sold me, system76 it is
[10:16] <imbrandon> :)
[10:18] <elkbuntu> imbrandon, remember to ask for carl or... um.. ask for carl :)
[10:18] <crimsun> funman: Ubuntu doesn't include an explicit vlc-dbg because Debian doesn't  [http://packages.qa.debian.org/v/vlc.html ] 
[10:19] <funman> hm so i must talk with debian maintainer ;)
[10:19] <crimsun> funman: on the other hand, there are debug debs generated for Ubuntu [http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ddebs/ ] 
[10:19] <funman> crimsun: will ubuntu follow debian if they do it ?
[10:19] <funman> hmm nice
[10:19] <crimsun> funman: yes, Ubuntu picks up Debian changes
[11:26] <Adri2000> does anyone here know how to make a program that use the gnome systray re-appear in the systray after a gnome-panel crash or a killall gnome-panel? I believe that I saw something like that in a changelog somewhere recently, but I can't remember exactly
[11:28] <\sh> moins
[11:31] <imbrandon> heya \sh
[11:40] <Laibsch> May I direct your attention to https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/71561 ?
[11:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71561 in Ubuntu "RFP: hpodder" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[11:40] <Laibsch> An easy import from upstream.
[11:43] <StevenK>    hpodder |      0.5.8 | feisty/universe | source, amd64
[11:46] <StevenK> Laibsch: This means it's been imported into feisty. 
[11:46] <Laibsch> Already?
[11:46] <Laibsch> Above line is the output of what command?
[11:47] <StevenK> madison-lite, it tells me what versions of what packages are in which releases of Ubuntu.
[11:49] <Laibsch> Some of that info seems to be available from http://packages.ubuntu.com/hpodder as well.
[11:50] <Laibsch> But the package seems to have been only compiled for 64bit.
[11:50] <Laibsch> I cannot see who did the upload, though.
[11:51] <StevenK> Yes, I'm preparing an upload to fix it for i386 now.
[11:51] <StevenK> The reason you can't is because it was just imported directly into Ubuntu by one of the archive people.
[11:54] <Laibsch> Thank you.  Glad to see this is being worked on.
[11:55] <Laibsch> Will you close the bug report afterwards?  Will this eventually make it into edgy?
[11:57] <StevenK> Laibsch: I was planning on. No, it won't, since Edgy is released.
[11:57] <Laibsch> OK
[12:12] <fernando> moin all
[12:13] <highvoltage> morning fernando 
[12:14] <somerville32> I need some help
[12:14] <highvoltage> oh no. now I'm going to have an ABBA song stuck in my head :(
[12:14] <somerville32> debuild keeps rejecting my changelog
[12:15] <somerville32> http://pastebin.ca/259335
[12:17] <Adri2000> somerville32: try to reduce the number of characters of the line "* lib/multi.c: ..."
[12:17] <imbrandon> for one its over 80 chars long, two we need the error
[12:18] <somerville32> parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at changelog line 3
[12:19] <Adri2000> that's it
[12:19] <Adri2000> shouldn't be more than 80 characters per line
[12:19] <imbrandon> e.g. more than 80 chars long ( that is in the package guide iirc ) :)
[12:19] <somerville32> I changed it but still isn't working
[12:20] <imbrandon> and its two white spaces then * ?
[12:20] <imbrandon> how did you make the changelog entry ?
[12:20] <imbrandon> dch -i ?
[12:20] <somerville32> dch -v7.15.4-1ubuntu2.1 -Dedgy-proposed
[12:20] <imbrandon> ahh no you only have one whitespace
[12:20] <imbrandon> you need two before the *
[12:20] <somerville32> lol
[12:21] <imbrandon> lol?
[12:21] <somerville32> Fixed! :)
[12:22] <imbrandon> :)
[12:25] <somerville32> Oh no
[12:25] <somerville32> I have a pgp error :(
[12:25] <somerville32> gpg: skipped "Cody A.W. Somerville <cody.somerville@gmail.com>": secret key not available
[12:26] <Adri2000> somerville32: use debuild -k<gpg_key_id>
[12:26] <somerville32> I was told to use debuild -S
[12:26] <somerville32> Just append -k ?
[12:26] <Adri2000> also -k
[12:26] <Adri2000> debuild -S -kGPGID
[12:27] <somerville32> How can I get the GPGID?
[12:27] <imbrandon> gpg --list-keys
[12:28] <imbrandon> but you should make sure the changelog entry matches your key
[12:28] <imbrandon> otherwise it will still be rejected on upload
[12:28] <somerville32> Is it safe to paste output of gpg --list-kets ?
[12:28] <somerville32> *keys
[12:29] <imbrandon> as long as you have no other options yes, it should be safe ( dont do it in here though )
[12:29] <imbrandon> brb shower time and must get ready for work
[12:31] <somerville32> It still says my secret key is unavailable.
[12:31] <somerville32> :/
[12:32] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: do you have a moment to help somerville32 with his debsigning issues ? i have to run for a while
[12:33] <Hobbsee> hey imbrandon 
[12:33] <Hobbsee> should do, what's the problem?
[12:33] <imbrandon> thanks /me heads out for a few
[12:33] <somerville32> Oh
[12:33] <somerville32> I got it :)
[12:34] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: only if you fix python-pt4 when you get back.
[12:34] <somerville32> :)
[12:35] <StevenK> Hobbsee: s/pt/qt/
[12:35] <Hobbsee> eys
[12:35] <Hobbsee> *yes
[12:35] <somerville32> How does one test their debdiff?
[12:35] <Hobbsee> test their debdiff?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> well, a debdiff is just a specialised form of patch, so you can just patch -p1 < debdiff if you want
[12:42] <somerville32> Will someone take a peak at https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/curl/+bug/73447 ?
[12:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73447 in curl "SRU Request to fix Curl Segfault" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[12:46] <dholbach> imbrandon: tell me when you sent that mail
[12:46] <dholbach> imbrandon: thanks - I'm off for lunch now
[12:47] <imbrandon> dholbach: sending right now, then detaching to get ready to leave
[12:47] <imbrandon> have fun yall, see ya about 1900
[12:47] <somerville32> I'm going to bed.
[12:53] <imbrandon> dholbach: mail sent <detaches>
[01:01] <Vollstrecker> Anyone here that can help me with this: http://forum.amule.org/thread.php?threadid=11561&sid= ?
[01:32] <xerxas> can I try to package hamachi for ubuntu or the license don't permit it ? 
[01:34] <Hobbsee> xerxas: what's the licence?
[01:34] <xerxas> hobbsee: it's a freeware 
[01:35] <xerxas> but the code source isn't given 
[01:35] <\sh> does anybody has problems with pbuilder and setting --configfile?
[01:36] <Hobbsee> \sh: i use pdebuild --use-pdebuild-internal --configfile /pbuilder/feisty/pbuilderrc
[01:36] <Hobbsee> that seems to be the syntax
[01:37] <xerxas> hobbsee: in what repo opera and realplayer are ? 
[01:37] <siretart> xerxas: if the license explicitly allows unrestricted redistribution, we can consider shipping it in multiverse. In general, we prefer working on free software, with free as free in speech
[01:37] <xerxas> siretart, ok 
[01:37] <xerxas> in multiverse there are not only open source softwares ? 
[01:38] <\sh> I use the script of /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh with some adjustments, e.g. --configfile $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/pbuilderrc \ --aptconfdir $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/apt.config/ but it doesn't copy apt.config/* from the aptconfdir but from /etc/pbuilder/apt.config which is the default stuff from the system
[01:38] <siretart> xerxas: we ship e.g. acroread in multiverse, for which no sourcecode is available.
[01:38] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~/ubuntu/about% bzr push
[01:38] <StevenK> Using saved location: sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~stevenk/about-window/dev
[01:38] <StevenK> -2 revision(s) pushed.
[01:38] <StevenK> -2!?
[01:38] <siretart> StevenK: known bug
[01:38] <StevenK> Fair enough.
[01:39] <xerxas> siretart, hobbsee, at least, they don't allow to redistribute if they're not asked 
[01:39] <Hobbsee> \sh: give me a sec
[01:39] <xerxas> can I ask them the right to distribute it in ubuntu ? 
[01:39] <siretart> xerxas: you need to ask both them as well as the ubuntu ftpmasters
[01:41] <Hobbsee> \sh: what'd you save that script as?  presumably you're following the multiple pbuilders in !pbuilder or something?
[01:41] <Hobbsee> \sh: and i'd check what you've got the base dir set at - if that's correct, i guess
[01:42] <\sh> base dir is always set to $HOME/pbuilder
[01:42] <\sh> aptconfdir would be $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/apt.config (which is there)
[01:42] <Hobbsee> \sh: also, remove the /etc/pbuilderrc and /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc, iirc
[01:43] <Hobbsee> \sh: 
[01:43] <\sh> and configfile is set to $BASE_DIR/$DISTRIBUTION/pbuilderrc ;)
[01:43] <Hobbsee> yes, that's what i figured
[01:43] <Hobbsee> \sh: where is your script saved?  the modification of pbuilder-distribution.sh?
[01:43] <StevenK> I figured the easiest away around this was a wrapper script.
[01:43] <StevenK> Much less pain.
[01:44] <StevenK> s/away/way/
[01:44] <\sh> Hobbsee: ~/bin/pbuilder-feisty e.g.
[01:44] <Hobbsee> hrm
[01:44] <Hobbsee> (and has it all work)
[01:45] <StevenK> Where in the $PATH it is makes no difference.
[01:46] <\sh> it doesn't even catch the --configfile option 
[01:46] <\sh> dapper that is, with debootstrap of feisty installed
[01:47] <StevenK> \sh: Can you pastebin the a sh -x run of the script?
[01:47] <StevenK> s/the //
[01:50] <\sh> StevenK: fck spaces behind \ :(
[01:51] <\sh> on the command line .. --blabla blubb \  \n doesn't work :(
[01:51] <StevenK> It ought to.
[01:52] <StevenK> 'ls \ \n -l' works for me, for instance.
[01:53] <\sh> strange...
[01:56] <StevenK> \sh: Agreed.
[02:23] <dholbach> imbrandon: there's no .odt attached in the mail, but I'll go from the wiki page
[02:27] <dholbach> fernando: you can upload to REVU and get it approved and sponsored to universe
[02:27] <fernando> dholbach: it already on REVU, thanks =)
[02:27] <dholbach> fernando: did the package get reviewed and approved?
[02:27] <stgraber> dholbach: About REVU, how often is it checked ?
[02:28] <dholbach> stgraber: the people who check it are volunteers
[02:28] <dholbach> stgraber: and it's a manual process, so I can't give you a number for that
[02:29] <fernando> dholbach: already reviewed, i have upgraded and waiting approval
[02:29] <dholbach> ah nice
[02:30] <dholbach> fernando: did it get two "ok"?
[02:32] <stgraber> dholbach: I thought so, as soon as it's checked before Feisty I'm happy :) thx for the answer
[02:32] <dholbach> cool
[02:42] <fernando> dholbach: no, this don't have priority, don't worry
[02:43] <dholbach> ok
[02:44] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i think i'm going crazy
[02:45] <dholbach> Hobbsee: why?
[02:45] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i'm thinking about just going thru revu and reviewing all the packages, which will make people quiet for a while...and will tell us who's active and who isnt
[02:45] <Hobbsee> dholbach: speaking of which, why dont we get email notifications from when someone has commented on our packages on revu?
[02:45] <dholbach> I'm going to write up the code-review spec tonight
[02:46] <dholbach> Hobbsee: they went to a special mailing list
[02:46] <Hobbsee> ahh
[02:46] <dholbach> on tauware.de
[02:46] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:50] <Hobbsee> wait, ignore that
[02:55] <Hobbsee> oh wait, here it is.
[02:56] <Hobbsee> ooh, way cool.  it works *totally* different to the way i expected!
[02:58] <Hobbsee> dholbach: is the maintainer of a package the ubuntu person, or hte upstream person?  i think i've confused myself
[02:58] <dholbach> in debian/control?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> dholbach: yes
[02:59] <dholbach> the respective package maintainer
[03:00] <Hobbsee> which is....the ubuntu guy, presumably
[03:00] <Hobbsee> the guy who's actually maintaining the package?
[03:04] <geser> Hobbsee: the person creating the package (not the software)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> right
[03:28] <joejaxx> Good <Insert Time Of Day Here> Everyone
[03:30] <Hobbsee> hey joejaxx 
[03:31] <joejaxx> :)
[03:54] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:55] <\sh> hey barry
[03:55] <bddebian> Hi Stephan, how are you?
[03:56] <\sh> bddebian: working as usual :)
[03:56] <bddebian> Yeah, I hear that :-)
[03:56] <\sh> bddebian: but fine :)
[04:00] <joejaxx> hello bddebian \sh 
[04:00] <joejaxx> today is a slow day
[04:00] <bddebian> Heh, hi joejaxx
[04:00] <joejaxx> hello
[04:00] <joejaxx> trying to do some debugging today :)
[04:00] <joejaxx> dpkg-divert --remove is being a pain :)
[04:13] <giskard> imbrandon, news about beryl?
[04:13] <giskard> imbrandon,  fabo, hello ;)
[04:14] <Hobbsee> giskard: he was afk, last i knew
[04:14] <giskard> Hobbsee, oki, thank you
[04:19] <Hobbsee> dholbach: knocked some of the packages off.
[04:20] <dholbach> ROCK
[04:20] <Hobbsee> dholbach: if we coudl get a list of what's already in the archives, and on REVU, thatd' be helpful.  like a compare versions or something
[04:20] <Hobbsee> dholbach: people seem to like uploading to there instead of doing debdiffs and attaching them to bugs, unfortuantely
[04:20] <dholbach> ngngng
[04:21] <Hobbsee> hrm?
[04:21] <dholbach> the 'code-review' spec, I'm going to write up tomorrow suggests to use bzr on launchpad for revuing
[04:21] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[04:21] <dholbach> I'm happy to hear comments on that
[04:21] <dholbach> I just need to prepare the packaging 101 session now
[04:21] <Hobbsee> havent seen it
[04:21] <Hobbsee> sounds good to me
[04:55] <isaric> I have problem with dput -f *source.change I write : http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=77337&p=2 Can you help me ?
[04:57] <Hobbsee> isaric: you can ignore that error
[05:02] <isaric> but i don't see packtage on http://revu.tauware.de/
[05:09] <Hobbsee> are you added to the tinyurl link in the topic, and has the keyring been synced?
[05:15] <isaric> I confused /etc/dput.cf and ~/.dput.cf
[05:23] <Gloubiboulga> raphink: hello Raphal, could you please sync the keyring on revu?
[05:31] <Lathiat> hrm i tried to call redhat presales and after being bounced aroudn to 4 people with no clue i now have to await a call back tomorrow from some rep from my state (when im trying to get to someone technical, who she wont be)
[05:31] <Lathiat> perhaps i should test drive canonical support :)
[05:32] <zul> i think you have to buy canonical support first :)
[05:33] <Lathiat> how can i buy if i have no pre-sales support to tell me i want to buy it? :)
[05:34] <proppy> revu password recovering broken : http://revu.tauware.de/lostpw.py?email=proppy@aminche.com got python traceback : Mod_python error: "PythonHandler mod_python.publisher"
[05:36] <proppy> where should i fill a bug report ?
[05:39] <raphink> Gloubiboulga: doing that
[05:40] <proppy> full traceback here : http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/833941
[05:40] <Gloubiboulga> raphink: merci ;)
[05:41] <joejaxx> when you do pbuilder create does it use your already existing source list?
[05:41] <joejaxx> at the time of the pbuild creation?
[05:43] <joejaxx> or does it use the default sourcelist that comes with any fresh debootstrap environment
[05:43] <Hobbsee> the latter
[05:44] <joejaxx> ahhh no wonder
[05:44] <luisbg> Hobbsee, really?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> luisbg: yes, unless you tell it otherwise.
[05:44] <joejaxx> so it does not have universe in the sources
[05:44] <Hobbsee> correct, unless you set in your pbuilderrc
[05:44] <joejaxx> which is why things that require universe packages do not build
[05:44] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: thank you very much Hobbsee :D
[05:45] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:45] <Hobbsee> hrhr
[05:45] <luisbg> joejaxx, libjack isn't in universe?
[05:46] <joejaxx> feisty (libdevel): JACK Audio Connection Kit (development files) [universe]  
[05:46] <luisbg> wow!
[05:46] <joejaxx> yeap
[05:47] <luisbg> then how can we use universe in pbuilder to build/test a packge
[05:47] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: do you have an example of a pbuilderrc?
[05:47] <joejaxx> luisbg: she said you have to specify it to use universe :)
[05:48] <Hobbsee>  /usr/doc/pbuilder/examples or something does
[05:48] <joejaxx> luisbg: in the pbuilderrc file
[05:48] <Hobbsee> so does !pbuilder
[05:48] <joejaxx> ok
[05:48] <dholbach> Packaging 101 session in 12m in #ubuntu-classroom
[05:48] <joejaxx> i will look in doc
[05:48] <proppy> there is pbuider --aptconfdir options too, (just read it from the man)
[05:48] <proppy> i never tested it thought :|
[05:49] <luisbg> proppy, let me see
[05:49] <proppy> btw, i just uploaded a new package to revu with dput, i wonder what is the next step ?
[05:49] <proppy> as it is my first one :)
[05:50] <stgraber> next step = wait :)
[05:50] <luisbg> joejaxx, it is /usr/share/docs...
[05:50] <proppy> stgraber: ok that one is hard :)
[05:50] <joejaxx> luisbg: i know
[05:50] <joejaxx> :)
[05:50] <stgraber> proppy: yes, really :)
[05:50] <luisbg> dholbach, what's the class on? 
[05:50] <joejaxx> she accidentally left out the share
[05:50] <luisbg> joejaxx, cool cool, just saying
[05:50] <dholbach> luisbg: bits of this and bits of that
[05:51] <dholbach> but just bits, it's just an hour
[05:51] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: it being almost 4am, i'm not suprised.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: i guessed.
[05:51] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is quite alright
[05:51] <joejaxx> i knew what you meant :)
[05:51] <proppy> stgraber: should i Ctrl+R mozilla on revu, every 5 of every 10 minutes :) ?
[05:51] <Hobbsee> and being in *classroom* etc
[05:53] <stgraber> proppy: For my part that's more days :)
[05:54] <proppy> stgraber: thx
[06:03] <luisbg> can get the pbuilder to use universe to build a package
[06:03] <luisbg> any more detailed help
[06:06] <Adri2000> luisbg: you can specify which repo to use in the pbuilerrc
[06:08] <luisbg> Adri2000, the how is my question
[06:08] <Adri2000> luisbg: COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
[06:08] <luisbg> may I have the full command, don't know where to place that exactly
[06:09] <Adri2000> luisbg: I think you should be already a COMPONENTS line in ~/.puilderrc
[06:09] <geser> echo "COMPONENTS=\"main restricted universe multiverse\"" >> ~/.pbuilderrc
[06:09] <Adri2000> s/you/there/
[06:11] <luisbg> thanks a lot =)
[06:36] <plerk> hello?
[06:36] <plerk> is imbrandon here?
[06:58] <xhaker> dholbach, i have some questions for you about packaging
[06:58] <dholbach> please mail
[06:58] <dholbach> dholbach at ubuntu dot com
[06:59] <dholbach> I'm going to be off for a bit now
[06:59] <xhaker> ;)
[06:59] <dholbach> or ask on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
[06:59] <dholbach> thanks for your good questions
[06:59] <xhaker> ok
[06:59] <xhaker> i thought they would serve others too
[06:59] <xhaker> :P
[07:00] <Adri2000> xhaker: you can ask anyway here
[07:00] <Adri2000> !seen Fujitsu
[07:00] <ubotu> I last saw Fujitsu (n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu) 4h 57s ago, quiting: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[07:00] <xhaker> Adri2000, ;)
[07:01] <xhaker> 1. Where to install a gnome applet? should i look in other packages for direction?
[07:01] <xhaker> 2. Does it matter if the applet is written in python
[07:02] <xhaker> i mean.. should it go to another place because of that?
[07:04] <Adri2000> xhaker: I packaged one gnome applet written in python, you can look, it is in universe since edgy: apt-get source giplet
[07:05] <Adri2000> xhaker: this one has a Makefile and everything from upstream
[07:05] <xhaker> Adri2000,  Do you happen to know if it's necessary to include the license in every python file?
[07:05] <Sp4rKy> hi there
[07:06] <xhaker> hi Sp4rKy 
[07:08] <Adri2000> xhaker: yes, if you release a file under the gpl you have to include a header in the file, but this work is not in the packager side
[07:08] <xhaker> i happen to be the developer too
[07:09] <xhaker> i have a problem in that area.. is it possible for it to have two copyright holders listed?
[07:09] <Adri2000> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
[07:09] <Adri2000> assuming you want to use gpl of course
[07:10] <Adri2000> and yes, it's possible to have more than one copyright holder, look at the AUTHORS file of some important projects ;)
[07:10] <xhaker> i meant on the python file
[07:10] <xhaker> at the license on the header
[07:11] <xhaker> it looks funky
[07:11] <xhaker> lol
[07:12] <somerville32> Where is apt.config?
[07:14] <Adri2000> xhaker: look at gaim, in fact AUTHORS seems to be for the main developers, and the COPYRIGHT file contains all the people who contributed to gaim (from a one line patch to big contributions) and the header in each source file says:
[07:14] <Adri2000>  * Gaim is the legal property of its developers, whose names are too numerous
[07:14] <Adri2000>  * to list here.  Please refer to the COPYRIGHT file distributed with this
[07:14] <Adri2000>  * source distribution.
[07:14] <xhaker> simple
[07:14] <somerville32> Where is apt.config? :)
[07:16] <Adri2000> xhaker: so it depends if you have enough space to write all the copyright holders, if not use a separate file :)
[07:16] <Adri2000> somerville32: locate? apt-file search?
[07:16] <somerville32> I tried
[07:16] <somerville32> But I just installed pbuilder
[07:16] <somerville32> I doubt the locate db would have it
[07:24] <Adri2000> somerville32: and apt-file?
[07:24] <somerville32> I don't have apt-file installed
[07:24] <somerville32> ?
[07:24] <somerville32> :] 
[07:39] <phanatic> could anybody please have a look at this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3413
[07:48] <Adri2000> phanatic: debian/dirs seems useless
[07:48] <somerville32> Adri2000: No luck
[07:48] <somerville32> OH!!!!
[07:48] <somerville32> apt.config is a directory!
[07:49] <phanatic> Admiral_Chicago: indeed :)
[07:49] <phanatic> oh sorry
[07:49] <phanatic> Adri2000: ^
[07:49] <Adri2000> :)
[07:49] <phanatic> just forgot to rm it
[07:49] <phanatic> i'll reupload if you have no more comments :)
[07:50] <Adri2000> phanatic: Standards-Version is now 3.7.2.2
[07:50] <phanatic> Adri2000: good to know...
[07:53] <Adri2000> phanatic: but well, I'm not sure it's really important, .2 is probably only small changes
[07:54] <phanatic> Adri2000: i've bumped it anyway :)
[07:59] <phanatic> Adri2000: thanks for your comments, i've upload it again - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3554
[08:02] <LaserJock> hehe, I think sabdfl is going to have a busy week :-)
[08:04] <zul> probably
[08:14] <Adri2000> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3553 < anyone? :)
[08:22] <phanatic> Adri2000: seems okay to me
[08:22] <phanatic> i could comment on it, but i'm not allowed to give +1 :(
[08:23] <Adri2000> yeah that's bad, I think non-motu should be allowed to comment
[08:24] <LaserJock> you can get a motu to post a comment
[08:24] <LaserJock> it's just hard if you have people giving bad advice
[08:24] <phanatic> Adri2000: i was given the right to comment on other people's uploads, but i cannot advocate it, since i'm not a motu
[08:25] <Adri2000> phanatic: ah? you can comment?
[08:25] <LaserJock> phanatic: I thought you were a MOTU
[08:25] <phanatic> Adri2000: yep
[08:25] <phanatic> LaserJock: many people think, but still not applied
[08:25] <LaserJock> Adri2000: yes, we give reviewing rights to a few non-MOTUs that have proved they know wha they are doing
[08:26] <Adri2000> ok, I didn't know, LaserJock if you think it's ok for me, I would be happy to help
[08:28] <LaserJock> Adri2000: well I'm not a REVU admin so I don't have any say :-)
[08:29] <ajmitch> morning all
[08:29] <LaserJock> ajmitch: morning
[08:29] <Adri2000> eh, looking for a revu admin? :p hi ajmitch
[08:30] <LaserJock> sabdfl talking about binary-only drivers and FLOSS
[08:30] <LaserJock> not much
[08:31] <ajmitch> ah
[08:31] <fdoving> Adri2000: you might consider using 'install' instead of 'cp' to copy the homebank.svg, it's not important, but i prefer using install, then i can set the mode of the file too.
[08:31] <LaserJock> ajmitch: the logs are at the normal place
[08:31] <LaserJock> ajmitch: there's around 300 or so people in the channel
[08:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I know, and I have scrollback in irssi
[08:32] <LaserJock> ah, I didn't know you were in the channel
[08:32] <ajmitch> have been for a few days
[08:33] <ajmitch> so have you given your talk?
[08:33] <ajmitch> or is that one in 90min?
[08:33] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:33] <LaserJock> brandon is up first
[08:33] <whiprush> go LaserJock!
[08:33] <LaserJock> yikes
[08:33] <LaserJock> after watching Jono's I'm a little nervous
[08:34] <ajmitch> I thought brandon was meant to have his earlier
[08:34] <whiprush> I am learning a lot so far
[08:34] <whiprush> like about dpkg-genbuilddeps(!)
[08:34] <LaserJock> he is right before me
[08:34] <ajmitch> ah no, dholbach took the packaging 101
[08:34] <Adri2000> fdoving: ok, I will think about it next time, but for homebank I just checked and the .desktop has the right permissions/owner
[08:34] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:35] <LaserJock> brandon's doing Kubuntu
[08:35] <LaserJock> bah
[08:35] <LaserJock> ajmitch: want mine? :-)
[08:35] <ajmitch> I'm not worthy
[08:36] <LaserJock> whatever
[08:36] <LaserJock> much more worthy than I
[08:36] <ajmitch> nah
[08:36] <ajmitch> I'm also at work :)
[08:36] <LaserJock> me too
[08:36] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:36] <ajmitch> so there's no way I can do an hour-long talk on irc
[08:36] <LaserJock> lunch break
[08:37] <ajmitch> maybe I could fill in the slot after pitti on thursday if I'm needed
[08:37] <ajmitch> but I'd have nothing to talk about :)
[08:37] <LaserJock> "The MOTU Horror Stories" by ajmitch 
[08:38] <ajmitch> haha
[08:38] <ajmitch> "The horrors of 3rd party packages & scripts"
[08:38] <LaserJock> "Zope Packaging for the Rest of Us"
[08:39] <somerville32> Ajmitch: Want session are you doin?
[08:39] <ajmitch> somerville32: nothing, I'm just a lowly MOTU contributor :)
[08:39] <ajmitch> so I just hack away at packages, not give talks to hundreds of people
[08:40] <somerville32> :] 
[08:40] <somerville32> I'm not a superstar but I'm doing the Xubuntu session
[08:40] <somerville32> :] 
[08:40] <ajmitch> by that you must be a superstar
[08:42] <Adri2000> ajmitch: could you consider allowing me to post comments on revu?
[08:43] <ajmitch> it's not just up to me to allow people to review stuff
[08:45] <Adri2000> I understand
[08:46] <ajmitch> I'll check with others, like crimsun 
[08:47] <somerville32> Crimsun is such a nice guy :)
[08:47] <Adri2000> crimsun uploaded two of my merges
[08:47] <PriceChild> Anyone free to check out my latest upload? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3556
[08:56] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I need your brain for a sec
[08:56] <LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how many packages in Main and Universe Ubuntu actually changes from Debian
[08:56] <ajmitch> be careful with it
[08:57] <LaserJock> so I grep'd the sources file for ubuntu versions
[08:57] <LaserJock> for Edgy Main I got 978 out of 5382
[08:57] <Adri2000> PriceChild: the last Standards-version is 3.7.2.2
[08:57] <LaserJock> and for Universe I got 1250 out of 18656
[08:57] <ajmitch> Adri2000: use 3.7.2, not 3.7.2.2
[08:58] <Adri2000> why?
[08:58] <LaserJock> ajmitch: do those numbers seem right?
[08:58] <ajmitch> because the last .2 is typographical changes only
[08:58] <PriceChild> So i'm good to keep it at 3.7.2
[08:58] <ajmitch> LaserJock: they seem vaguely right, there are the stats on MoM but they don't have numbers
[08:58] <Adri2000> ajmitch: yes, but I thought the best was to use the last version...
[08:59] <ajmitch> Adri2000: and 3.7.2 is the last version that matters
[08:59] <Adri2000> ok
[08:59] <ajmitch> "Thus only the first three components of the policy version are significant in the Standards-Version control field"
[08:59] <Adri2000> where did you find that?
[08:59] <ajmitch> you can have the full version, but it's not needed
[08:59] <ajmitch> debian policy
[08:59] <Adri2000> ok
[09:00] <PriceChild> thanks for looking Adri2000 :) Anything else?
[09:04] <Adri2000> PriceChild: there is a "," unneeded at the end of the Build-Depends line ;) also you can add one more blank character before HomePage (long description) to make it appear such as here http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/sound/djplay
[09:06] <PriceChild> Ok thanks
[09:07] <PriceChild> that's fixed and uploaded
[09:08] <Adri2000> PriceChild: good, but your editor created debian/control.save
[09:08] <PriceChild> argh
[09:08] <PriceChild> should have checked that :(
[09:08] <Adri2000> err nano
[09:08] <PriceChild> lol :P
[09:08] <PriceChild> can never get used to vi
[09:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: nervous yet?
[09:09] <LaserJock> ummm
[09:09] <LaserJock> do I have to answer that
[09:09] <PriceChild> I'm taking it that's a comment about me? :s
[09:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: of course
[09:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we all look up to you :)
[09:11] <crimsun> yeah, if LaserJock's nervous, I'm screwede
[09:11] <ajmitch> hah
[09:11] <ajmitch> morning lifeless 
[09:11] <LaserJock> crimsun: heck no
[09:13] <sladen> ademan: wire-sniffing.  The same way as Samba
[09:17] <giskard> hello ajmitch LaserJock 
[09:18] <ajmitch> hi giskard 
[09:18] <LaserJock> hi giskard 
[09:18] <ajmitch> I see imbrandon is up now
[09:19] <ajmitch> just managed to read through all the scrollback for -classroom
[09:19] <giskard> yeah, i need him ;)
[09:19] <ajmitch> for beryl crack
[09:20] <giskard> crack?
[09:20] <ajmitch> yes
[09:20] <ajmitch> it's insanity all packaged up together
[09:22] <giskard> ehehe :)
[09:22] <giskard> imbrandon, you should really blog about beryl ;)
[09:22] <ajmitch> we shouldn't distract him from his kde pimping :)
[09:24] <stgraber> Adri2000: If you have some time, can you also have a look at : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3559 please
[09:25] <Adri2000> stgraber: why is it a native package?
[09:26] <LaserJock> what chaos
[09:28] <stgraber> I should have done something wrong ...
[09:29] <ajmitch> LaserJock: hm?
[09:30] <LaserJock> ajmitch: the Kubuntu feeding frenzy
[09:30] <Adri2000> stgraber: the version should be 0.5-0ubuntu1 I think
[09:30] <stgraber> Adri2000: I'm the writer of the software as well as the packager, but that's not a reason to have a native package I think.
[09:30] <Adri2000> yep, it isn't
[09:31] <ajmitch> LaserJock: that's nothing compared to the next session
[09:31] <LaserJock> bah
[09:31] <stgraber> Adri2000: Anything else to do except renaming the directory ? (and change the format of the entry in the changelog)
[09:32] <Adri2000> stgraber: then check that it actually creates a diff.gz
[09:33] <ajmitch> LaserJock: not like the frenzy of 99 comments on sabdfl's invitation blogpost
[09:34] <stgraber> Adri2000: it doesn't :(
[09:36] <Adri2000> stgraber: make sure that you have changed the version in every files
[09:43] <Adri2000> stgraber: hmm, the version should be only in the changelog, so is there an error when you run debuild?
[09:44] <LaserJock> also make sure there is an .orig.tar.gz file
[09:45] <ajmitch> as fun as it would be
[09:46] <LaserJock> :-)
[09:47] <ajmitch> I'll leave my heckling till the next session
[09:48] <LaserJock> :(
[09:48] <crimsun> oh, right. open week.
[09:49] <ajmitch> yes
[09:49] <ajmitch> come & sit in the mortals gallery as the superstars talk
[09:50] <LaserJock> I honestly don't really know what I'm supposed to talk about
[09:51] <ajmitch> maintaining an ubuntu package?
[09:51] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:51] <ajmitch> bugs, updating the package from upstream, dealing with upstream, etc
[09:53] <somerville32> Crimsun: I got that thing done. How long before they review my bug?
[09:53] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, I'm just not sure how to do it in a way that's Open Week- friendly. I don't want to scare anybody ;-)
[09:53] <crimsun> somerville32: do you want a realistic answer? I don't know.
[09:54] <crimsun> both mdz and kamion are quite busy.
[09:54] <somerville32> k
[09:54] <Adri2000> please, a motu can check that in dosemu (multiverse), the ubuntu changes can be dropped and that I can request the sync
[09:55] <ajmitch> you have filed the bug & subscribed u-u-s?
[09:56] <Adri2000> ajmitch: me?
[09:56] <ajmitch> yes, you
[09:57] <Adri2000> if I'm not wrong it's a sync, why would I file a bug just to have an ack from a motu?
[09:57] <ajmitch> because that's how you request a sync
[09:57] <crimsun> because that's our workflow
[09:59] <Adri2000> ajmitch: then I subscribe ubuntu-archive, not universe sponsors, I think it's really wasting time/... to file a bug just to have the ack to file another bug
[09:59] <ajmitch> no you don't
[09:59] <ajmitch> you file one bug
[09:59] <Adri2000> with the sync request?
[09:59] <ajmitch> a MOTU checks it, and then they subscribe ubuntu-archive
[09:59] <ajmitch> yes
[10:00] <Adri2000> ok
[10:03] <zul> muhahahha....its not my fault
[10:03] <Adri2000> does the request sync script work with contrib/multiverse?
[10:04] <ajmitch> if you have the right things in sources.list
[10:05] <joejaxx> well i think i figured out dpkg-divert :D
[10:13] <stgraber> Adri2000: It should be good now, can you check : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3560 when you have a minute please
[10:20] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i am doing a test install of the packages on a feisty install
[10:20] <joejaxx> i love vmware's nonpersistant hdd images
[10:20] <joejaxx> everytime i boot up a vm
[10:20] <joejaxx> it is a clean fresh install
[10:23] <LaserJock> joejaxx: \o/
[10:24] <stgraber> personally I use vmware to do some LTSP testing, having the server + 2 clients on the same computer is really useful :)
[10:25] <joejaxx> stgraber: you do?
[10:25] <joejaxx> when i try edubuntu on vmware
[10:25] <joejaxx> the netboot clients freeze at one point
[10:25] <Sp4rKy> please, if i want to upload an update for a package which was already add to universe
[10:25] <joejaxx> when booting
[10:25] <Sp4rKy> must i re dput it to REVU
[10:26] <Sp4rKy> or is there another (faster) way
[10:26] <somerville32> Do you think I could get an SRU approved to fix some memory leaks in xfce4?
[10:26] <stgraber> I have an Edubuntu edgy installed and two LTSP server and I never had any problem
[10:26] <joejaxx> stgraber: hmm
[10:26] <joejaxx> stgraber: are you using nat or bridged?
[10:27] <ajmitch> Sp4rKy: you make a debdiff, attach it to a bug in launchpad
[10:27] <stgraber> one network card bridged to my real network card, and another connected to the host-only thing
[10:27] <geser> Sp4rKy: create a debdiff, file a bug, attach the debdiff and subscribe the ubuntu-sponsors-team, wait
[10:27] <stgraber> and all the LTSP client on the host-only
[10:27] <joejaxx> stgraber: i will have to try that
[10:27] <joejaxx> stgraber: ltsp is REALLY cool :)
[10:27] <stgraber> yes :)
[10:27] <Sp4rKy> geser: ajmitch k
[10:28] <stgraber> hmm, and if someone made VmWare to work with IPV6 on a bridged connection, please tell me
[10:28] <stgraber> here it gets the IP but I can't ping or do anything with it ...
[10:28] <Adri2000> ajmitch: bug 73535
[10:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73535 in dosemu "Please sync dosemu (multiverse) from unstable (contrib)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73535
[10:30] <joejaxx> i wonder if wdm is broken in feisty
[10:31] <joejaxx> LaserJock: ping
[10:31] <joejaxx> fluxbox is not complaining 
[10:31] <joejaxx> but wdm is
[10:31] <LaserJock> maybe not now joejaxx, I'm a little busy ;-)
[10:31] <joejaxx> ah ok
[10:31] <joejaxx> :)
[10:46] <Adri2000> what are the repos needed to make the sync script working?
[10:56] <whiprush> LaserJock: that was a sweet session dude, congrats.
[10:56] <Admiral_Chicago> if you install ubuntu-desktop, it doesn't check to see if mozilla-mplayer is installed, so totem-mozilla is installed as well, causing a conflict
[10:57] <Admiral_Chicago> i'm not sure if this is a bug i've just had, but it would be nice if ubuntu checked this
[10:57] <giskard> uhhh! i've lost it
[10:57] <giskard> stupid me
[10:58] <ajmitch> whiprush: dude!
[10:58] <whiprush> hey
[10:58] <ajmitch> what's up?
[10:59] <Adri2000> who uses pitti's script for syncs?
[11:00] <whiprush> ajmitch: just following the UOW.
[11:00] <ajmitch> Adri2000: yeah
[11:00] <whiprush> Alot newer people than I anticipated. I thought it was going to be a bunch of us old geezers.
[11:00] <ajmitch> seems to have attracted quite a few people
[11:00] <ajmitch> not just us geriatrics
[11:01] <Adri2000> ajmitch: Exception: apt-cache madison does not contain tkcvs/8.0.3-3 but apt-cache madison actually contains it, I have the debian deb-src in my sources.list
[11:01] <ajmitch> explain
[11:01] <ajmitch> you just said it contains & does not contain
[11:01] <Adri2000> no, the first was the error :p
[11:01] <LaserJock> whiprush: well, sort of scattered
[11:02] <LaserJock> not that good
[11:02] <whiprush> it's irc, tends up ending that way
[11:02] <Adri2000> ajmitch: and when I run apt-cache madison manually: tkcvs |    8.0.3-3 | http://ftp.fr.debian.org unstable/main Sources so it seems good to me
[11:02] <whiprush> still for a first day I think it's gone over remarkably well
[11:03] <whiprush> I was half expecting whining all day about drivers to be honest. :p
[11:03] <ajmitch> Adri2000: ok, so what is the problem?
[11:04] <Adri2000> the script aborts!
[11:04] <Adri2000> Exception: apt-cache madison does not contain tkcvs/8.0.3-3
[11:04] <Adri2000> and that's all
[11:05] <ajmitch> because release is not the version
[11:05] <ajmitch> but the target release
[11:05] <ajmitch> like feisty, iirc
[11:06] <LaserJock> whiprush: well, Mark showed up and did a little PR work earlier ;-)
[11:06] <whiprush> yeah I was following along.
[11:06] <whiprush> I tried to linkbot a few links to some people in -chat.
[11:06] <Adri2000> ajmitch: ahhhhh, sorry
[11:07] <whiprush> having a "back up" person in -chat seemed to help, like cjwatson was fielding the nitnoid questions in -chat while dholbach pushed the main discussion forward
[11:07] <whiprush> that seemed to work rather well
[11:07] <ajmitch> definitely
[11:08] <ajmitch> now we get ready for the next round of rockstars tomorrow
[11:09] <Adri2000> ajmitch: should I always add a comment explaining why the ubuntu changes can be overwritten?
[11:09] <joejaxx> ahh
[11:09] <joejaxx> ok the dpkg-divert works
[11:09] <ajmitch> Adri2000: always necessary
[11:09] <joejaxx> but 
[11:09] <Adri2000> ok
[11:09] <joejaxx> i have to fix the install file
[11:11] <LaserJock> man, I've got the speaking high right now
[11:11] <ajmitch> hehe
[11:19] <LaserJock> phew
[11:19] <LaserJock> I'm going to go get some lunch and something to drink
[11:19] <whiprush> go celebrate.
[11:20] <LaserJock> gotta get back to research though
[11:20] <LaserJock> silly advisors wanting results, shesh :-)
[11:21] <LaserJock> oh, and I get to blog today
[11:21] <LaserJock> \o/
[11:21] <ajmitch> man
[11:21] <whiprush> blog about novell, microsoft, or drivers.
[11:21] <whiprush> it's like a rule now
[11:21] <LaserJock> my very first code contribution outside of Ubuntu got released today
[11:21] <ajmitch> superstars
[11:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: something you wrote?
[11:23] <LaserJock> well, a rather small contribution
[11:23] <LaserJock> to an existing app
[11:23] <LaserJock> but still
[11:23] <LaserJock> it was C++ even
[11:23] <LaserJock> no fluffy Python for me ;-p
[11:23] <ajmitch> ah right
[11:24] <whiprush> ajmitch: I saw that.
[11:24] <ajmitch> now I will just get into it a bit deeper :)
[11:24] <ajmitch> whiprush: really?
[11:24] <whiprush> I was like "man I know that dude!"
[11:24] <whiprush> yeah, gitweb rss feeds + google reader = fast catching up to your favorite projects.
[11:25] <ajmitch> haha
[11:25] <ajmitch> what a fanboy ;)
[11:26] <LaserJock> lol
[11:27] <whiprush> I end up subscribed to whatever list all my hardware for all my machines runs. *shrug*
[11:27] <whiprush> though I finally found a core2duo small form factor shuttle with intel graphics that I'm going to pick up.
[11:27] <LaserJock> I just can't process that much info
[11:27] <LaserJock> nice
[11:28] <ajmitch> after seeing whiprush use google reader he got me onto it as well
[11:28] <whiprush> it's all about the j key
[11:28] <LaserJock> oh
[11:28] <LaserJock> I've used it a little bit
[11:28] <LaserJock> but haven't figured out how to use it well
[11:28] <LaserJock> Google simply rocks
[11:29] <LaserJock> the organic chemisty down the hall use google calander to SMS them when they are up for instrument time
[11:29] <LaserJock> s/chemistry/chemists/
[11:30] <ajmitch> right, packaged up some libdrm snapshots, now I can play some more with destroying my computer
[11:30] <ajmitch> it's not like any drivers I depend on actually use it :)
[11:30] <whiprush> LaserJock: our U is subcontracting all mail to google.
[11:31] <whiprush> which is probably scary, but free, *shrug*
[11:32] <LaserJock> no
[11:32] <LaserJock> I used to
[11:32] <LaserJock> but now I have laserjock.us
[11:32] <LaserJock> so I send most mail there
[11:33] <LaserJock> if gmail had better filtering (like filtering on an aribtrary header) I'd probably stick with it
[11:35] <LaserJock> whiprush: trust me, you don't want me blogging about ms/novel, binary-only drivers, or opensuse mailings
[11:35] <LaserJock> I'm not nearly qualified
[11:35] <whiprush> hey, that doesn't seem to stop anyone else. :p
[11:36] <LaserJock> sure, but I'd rather not blog about things I have no business blogging about
[11:36] <_MMA_> :)
[11:36] <whiprush> ajmitch: like the imbrandon/laserjock one-two combination punch for first day goodness.
[11:36] <crimsun> word, maybe I'll revive my LJ acct just for that
[11:37] <ajmitch> whiprush: yeah
[11:37] <sebest> Hello, i've some packages on revu.tauware.de, and i'd like to get them reviewed?
[11:38] <LaserJock> I think it'd be good for us to do some more MOTU blogging
[11:38] <LaserJock> it seems to be the way to communicate these days
[11:38] <ajmitch> we don't want planet
[11:38] <sebest> anyone could help me to review them?
[11:38] <ajmitch> we have the whole universe
[11:38] <LaserJock> ajmitch: planet universe? :-)
[11:39] <crimsun> don't many MOTU blog anyhow?
[11:39] <LaserJock> not really
[11:39] <crimsun> it's just us mere mortals who don't.
[11:39] <LaserJock> I think more MOTU superstars need to blog
[11:39] <ajmitch> slaving away in the salt mines
[11:40] <LaserJock> like crimsun, ajmitch, siretart, sistpoty
[11:40] <crimsun> I've already got a blog.
[11:40] <LaserJock> mr holbach
[11:40] <whiprush> you guys could always just tell me when someone does something good and I can keep a tab and do it for you if you want.
[11:40] <ajmitch> sebest: ok, for all of them but mod-mime-xattr, the version must have x.y.z-0ubuntu1, not x.y.z-1
[11:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock: sorry, I'm not in the superstar category
[11:40] <LaserJock> sure you are
[11:40] <ajmitch> I'm in the fanboy area
[11:40] <whiprush> modest.
[11:40] <LaserJock> annoying
[11:40] <sebest> ajmitch: and except this point, everything looks goog?
[11:41] <sebest> good?
[11:41] <ajmitch> sebest: there's no way I can make that statement in 2 minutes :)
[11:41] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:41] <ajmitch> sebest: that was just the first problem I saw for them
[11:41] <ajmitch> mod-mime-xattr is missing the orig.tar.gz, making it somewhat impossible to review
[11:41] <sebest> maybe i must also change "unstable" ?
[11:42] <sebest> in the changelog
[11:42] <ajmitch> yes
[11:42] <ajmitch> ps-watcher has a massive diff with all the build cruft in it
[11:42] <LaserJock> anybody see how many people were in #ubuntu-classroom when I did my session?
[11:43] <ajmitch> nope
[11:43] <LaserJock> I forgot to look
[11:44] <ajmitch> sebest: various other changes like updating standards-version, cleaning up unnecessary commented out dh_* commands in debian/rules, etc
[11:45] <sebest> ajmitch:  thanx, i'll do these first fixes
[11:45] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I was too busy being amazed at your words
[11:45] <ajmitch> and also busy with work
[11:46] <ajmitch> innotop needs more stuff in debian/copyright, like the standard 3 paragraphs
[11:46] <sebest> ajmitch: what is standards version about?
[11:46] <ajmitch> the version of debian policy that the package claims to match
[11:46] <ajmitch> latest is 3.7.2
[11:46] <sebest> ajmitch: i use the mytop package as a basis
[11:47] <sebest> so all of this apply also to mytop package
[11:47] <ajmitch> doesn't mean they're right :)
[11:47] <ajmitch> ok
[11:47] <sebest> ok :)
[11:47] <sebest> ajmitch: does bumping the standard-version is enought, or does it imply other changes?
[11:49] <ajmitch> sebest: you should see the policy upgrading checklist
[11:49] <ajmitch>  zless /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
[11:50] <sebest> ajmitch: ok
[11:53] <Lure> LaserJock: there were 310-330 people online...
[11:54] <LaserJock> k, thanks
[11:54] <ajmitch> so many fans..
[11:55] <LaserJock> jono's blog said we started the day with 240
[11:55] <LaserJock> so that's good that we didn't loose people
[12:03] <luisbg> there is a debian tweak for kdelibs4 that isn't in ubuntu, the dh-make in the /usr/share/doc/kdelibs4-dev to call it when using dh-make, why isn't this in ubuntu? http://wiki.debian.org/KdeDebBuild
[12:06] <luisbg> how can I pass build flags to pbuilder?
[12:06] <fabo> luisbg: the dh_make trick is outdated
[12:06] <LaserJock> luisbg: man pbuilder
[12:07] <luisbg> fabo, so what is the updated trick?
[12:07] <crimsun> not sure why you would even bother with dh-make anyhow.
[12:09] <luisbg> crimsun, because pbuilder doesn't find the Qt library
[12:09] <fabo> luisbg: at least kdelibs4-dev ;)
[12:10] <fabo> you want to package a pure Qt apps ?
[12:10] <fabo> luisbg: or KDE ?
[12:11] <luisbg> a qt app
[12:12] <LaserJock> luisbg: passing pbuilder build flags isn't going to help