[03:30] <sittisal> hey
[03:30] <sittisal> hi troy_s ...
[03:56] <lapo> hi
[03:56] <sittisal> ehy
[04:26] <totalwormage> well, what i wanted to say is that there is no background-colour is specified on the art.ubuntu.com site
[04:28] <totalwormage> so the site looks like: http://worm.shanara.nl/Screenshot.png
[04:28] <totalwormage> (i know my theme sucks by the way :p)
[06:47] <lizardking> Hello folks!
[06:48] <lizardking> I'm lizardking
[06:48] <lizardking> I here beacuse I told with Pingunz
[06:48] <lizardking> What about the new Feisty Artwork=
[06:48] <lizardking> is it dropped to some special private designer?
[06:49] <totalwormage> :o
[06:49] <lizardking> troy_s: plz, tell me...
[06:50] <PingunZ> troy_s, I told him about Starbuck .. he was about to propose the OranSoda themeteam
[06:50] <troy_s> greets
[06:50] <troy_s> hello sorry
[06:51] <troy_s> now remember
[06:51] <troy_s> i have gleaned this through limited discussions with mark.
[06:51] <troy_s> The 'anchors' -- the wallpaper / splash / etc
[06:52] <troy_s> are all going to be designed by Cliff.
[06:52] <lizardking> troy_s: Hello! does not matter
[06:52] <troy_s> I believe he wanted them done early
[06:52] <troy_s> but again, what mark wants and what happens are two different things as he has been known to change his course mid stream ;)
[06:52] <lizardking> troy_s: understand, who is Cliff?
[06:52] <troy_s> Cliff is the fellow who "designed" the Dapper look.
[06:52] <troy_s> in conjunction with sab.
[06:52] <troy_s> (Mark == sabdfl)
[06:53] <lizardking> troy_s: ok
[06:53] <troy_s> So don't expect style guidelines, palettes, etc.
[06:53] <lizardking> troy_s: ah, cool mark shuttleworth == sabdfl?
[06:54] <troy_s> What will likely happen is a lump of work will be dumped into Feisty, and those that are interested will be able to 'flesh' out the rest of the bits.  If sab approves of the extra bits, then he will include them.
[06:54] <PingunZ> lizardking, yes
[06:54] <troy_s> And pingunz, that starbucks sample i sent you was merely an example of solid design.  not a look.
[06:54] <troy_s> :)
[06:54] <troy_s> that is well thought out stylistic and communicative design.
[06:54] <lizardking> troy_s: understand. So my theme is pending from sab approval?
[06:54] <PingunZ> yes
[06:55] <troy_s> lizardking -- i suggest that outside 'themes' will probably be accepted with little issue
[06:55] <lizardking> troy_s: Can i view the  starbucks sample too?
[06:55] <troy_s> at some point
[06:55] <troy_s> with enough pushing.
[06:56] <troy_s> last cycle all of the proposed themes made it into the repos, so i wouldn't see any reason why it would change.
[06:57] <troy_s> that said, once again, the buntu directionality leaves a little to be desired.
[06:57] <troy_s> and things change at any moment.  ;)
[06:57] <troy_s> wow... i didn't realize that elkbuntu was melissa.
[06:57] <troy_s> greets elk.
[06:58] <lizardking> troy_s: understand...
[07:00] <lizardking> troy_s: I wanto to understand antoher thing..But the official ubuntu  artowork is done in private and relased when it is fineshed by  starbucks or we can see gradually the progess?
[07:00] <lizardking> ops. I write too 'o' in the sentence..sorry for my poor digital English... ;)
[07:01] <troy_s> LORD
[07:01] <troy_s> Ok.
[07:01] <troy_s> Let me fix something
[07:01] <troy_s> Your statement is completely incorrect.
[07:01] <troy_s> A) The official artwork is being completed by a fellow by the name of Cliff.
[07:02] <troy_s> B) It will be completed behind closed doors in conjunction with Shuttleworth's 'design' beliefs.
[07:02] <troy_s> C) It has nothing to do with starbucks.  *sigh*.  Re -read that... nothing to do with Starbucks.  NOTHING.
[07:02] <troy_s> Cliff is an independent fellow -- if you want to look at his site, I believe it is www.spacejunkdesign.com
[07:03] <troy_s> Lizardking -- is that clear.
[07:03] <lizardking> troy_s: I'm reading..
[07:04] <lizardking> troy_s: now it's clear!
[07:04] <troy_s> It will be a lump of stuff that arrives completed
[07:04] <troy_s> based on discussions that cliff and mark go through.
[07:04] <troy_s> (after having gone through extensive discussions towards the end of Edgy, I can tell you that it is pretty pointless)
[07:05] <lizardking> troy_s: ok
[07:06] <troy_s> but ultimately, all of this won't have any impact on your theme :)
[07:06] <troy_s> so keep plugging away, it might be wise to start a wiki page with screenshots and tarballs.
[07:06] <troy_s> that way it doesn't exist in your head and someone might be able to help you.
[07:07] <lizardking> troy_s: fiuuuu, now I understand everything. I already have done the wiki page
[07:08] <troy_s> Good stuff.
[07:09] <lizardking> lizardking: thank for you everything, troy_s!
[07:10] <troy_s> no problem lizardking
[07:10] <troy_s> again
[07:10] <troy_s> i don't pretend to speak with 'exclusive knowledge'
[07:10] <troy_s> it is only information that i have managed to wrestle out of the rock
[07:10] <troy_s> ;)
[07:11] <lizardking> troy_s: ehehe okay
[08:34] <troy_s> wow full house
[08:35] <troy_s> greetings all -- including the unfamilar faces.
[08:52] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:54] <MacSlow> sabdfl suggested to me to get in contact with you folks for some final hint/polishing-tweaks for my spec on the face-browser https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FaceBrowserLogin (please have a look at the two mockups further down that page)
[08:55] <MacSlow> while do not intend to become directly involved with the Ubuntu-Artwork team I still want to coordinate and streamline the stuff I do with the general themes/styles you people put into feisty
[08:55] <PingunZ> MacSlow, That'll be like *impossible* to realise
[08:55] <MacSlow> PingunZ, what... "working together" or the stuff I show in the mockups?
[08:57] <PingunZ> haha
[08:57] <PingunZ> the mockups ;)
[08:57] <PingunZ> Those faces .. you mean to click them so the username is selected ?
[08:57] <MacSlow> PingunZ, leave that "possible or not"-question to me
[08:58] <MacSlow> yes... I know my way around OpenGL, gtk+, GLSL and the like... I've a pretty clear vision how to implement that
[08:59] <MacSlow> the only "issue" will be if it will be accepted upstream... but I am in contact with gdm's maintainer at Sun already and also want to help him with a few bugs... in order to make it more likely to accept my bling-ification
[08:59] <PingunZ> MacSlow, So you want to replace those faces by the user's display picture ? and then the user can click his face and enter his pass ?
[09:00] <PingunZ> But .. you want those display pictures to look just like in your mockups ?
[09:00] <MacSlow> yes that's the general idea... but actually the user does not even have to click... just moving the mouse will be enough...
[09:00] <PingunZ> If you realise that you'll be a hero
[09:00] <PingunZ> :)
[09:01] <MacSlow> if people have set an login-picture it will be displayed... if not a fallback image will be used of course.
[09:01] <PingunZ> hmm
[09:01] <PingunZ> Can I add another idea
[09:01] <PingunZ> ? :)
[09:02] <MacSlow> the fading out stuff and the glow stuff will be some OpenGL-effects (probably GLSL-based), but I'll probably have to provide some alternative render-paths for non-shader capable hw so it doesn't look too dull
[09:03] <MacSlow> PingunZ, shoot... what's on your mind?
[09:03] <PingunZ> MacSlow, What about somekind of throbber that replaces the gnome splash ..
[09:03] <PingunZ> the throbber is located on the GDM once the user has succesfully logged in
[09:04] <MacSlow> hm... that's not part of the FaceBorwser spec...
[09:04] <PingunZ> Well .. It would be part of a *smooth* gdm ? :)
[09:04] <MacSlow> but... the code that will come form my work can easily be leveraged for something like this later on
[09:04] <PingunZ> Just drop the gnome-splash and include it in the GDM
[09:04] <PingunZ> just think about it :)
[09:04] <MacSlow> depending how fast I can get the face-browser stuff implemented I'm open to futher bling-ification in feisty
[09:05] <MacSlow> part of what you're asking sounds a bit like the whole "consistent login"-experience (seamless moving from usplash->gdm->actual gnome-session)
[09:05] <MacSlow> but that's a differnt spec
[09:06] <PingunZ> Oh
[09:06] <MacSlow> I think that's the spec for it https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnifiedLoginUnlock
[09:06] <PingunZ> I also taught about something vista-ish .. like *fade* to black  and then *fade* into your gnome-session once everything is loaded :)
[09:07] <MacSlow> that would be part of the latter spec I believe
[09:07] <PingunZ> ok :)-
[09:07] <PingunZ> Well.. those are just some ideas I had :)
[09:07] <MacSlow> all of this was talked about at UDS three weeks ago
[09:08] <MacSlow> the unified login/unlock screen (e.g. user-switching) is a bit more involved
[09:08] <MacSlow> there are some issues with Xorg making certain things we would like to see very hard
[09:09] <andreasn> ! most important spec this release!
[09:09] <MacSlow> hey andreasn
[09:09] <andreasn> hey MacSlow
[09:09] <MacSlow> andreasn: I had no idea you're hanging out here too :)
[09:09] <MacSlow> andreasn, I thought you "distro-affiliation is more fedora-ish" :)
[09:09] <andreasn> well, apparently I'm hanging out everywhere. :)
[09:10] <andreasn> yes, I hang out in #fedora-art as well
[09:10] <MacSlow> andreasn, well you're a wicked pixel/vector-pusher... you better hangout everywhere art-related :)
[09:11] <MacSlow> so people... if you feel to put some more polish/visual tweaks into the mockups (I can provide the .xcf files) then please tell me so.
[09:11] <MacSlow> Should I subscribe a dedicated mailing list for that?
[09:11] <MacSlow> I just want to get my stuff in line with the artwork planned for feisty
[09:12] <MacSlow> if you all think everything is fine and dandy already the better and move my  hacking to full force on it
[09:15] <andreasn> MacSlow: speaking of the login-stuff, why do I have to enter my name every time I want to log in when I'm the only user on the system anyway?
[09:16] <MacSlow> andreasn, because you're not really the only one :)
[09:17] <PingunZ> andreasn, there is the root user too
[09:17] <MacSlow> there are a lot more... ok... most of them are not really allowed to login via gdm (mostly for security-reasons), but that stuff is a bit further down the stack in gdm (probably PAM) and I'm not touching those areas.
[09:18] <PingunZ> indeed :)
[09:18] <MacSlow> aside from that if my patch will touch to much security-sensitive areas it will be more difficult to more things upstream afterwards.
[09:18] <andreasn> oh yes, that root dude :)
[09:18] <PingunZ> hehe
[09:18] <MacSlow> I made sure all my ideas are as minimalistic in their "intrusional"-nature as possible
[09:19] <PingunZ> MacSlow, Maybe a final idea .. why don't you put the user images horizontal ?
[09:20] <MacSlow> from a visual design perspective "lines going from bottom left to top right" are conceived as being "positive"
[09:21] <MacSlow> thus I chose this arrangement
[09:22] <MacSlow> the first mockup also has a ring-like appeal to it... which I like a bit better than the plain straight one in the second mockup
[09:22] <MacSlow> I'll subscribe to the ubuntu-art mailing-list to ask there too.
[09:23] <PingunZ> Hmm .. I'd really like to see a mockup of it when it's horizontal .. I'm pretty sure it'll look good :)
[09:24] <PingunZ> Btw .. instead of the ugly panel at the botom I'm pretty sure you are inventive enough to work something more creative out :)
[09:25] <PingunZ> Like .. an analog clock .. or just no computername .. or buttons, instead of the *einstellungen*
[09:25] <andreasn> MacSlow: why does it have a Name: field?
[09:25] <andreasn> http://macslow.thepimp.net/shots/face-browser-mockup-1.png
[09:25] <PingunZ> I was just wondering that too :)
[09:26] <andreasn> so I can edit it later and make it say andreasnn after I selected myself
[09:26] <MacSlow> because there are people that still like to type (even though they want cool looks)
[09:26] <andreasn> and then I will fail to log in
[09:27] <andreasn> what? are you serious?
[09:27] <PingunZ> MacSlow, maybe implement somekind of Alt+tab feature to switch users :)
[09:27] <MacSlow> the behaviour is like this... if you move the mouse to the left or right screen-edge the images will scroll (implicitly inserting the user-name of the user-photo in the middle) and you can just enter your passowrd
[09:27] <PingunZ> and make it go smoooth :)
[09:28] <MacSlow> but you will also be able to just click in the name-field and enter the username (while the faces will scroll the the next most likely match)
[09:28] <PingunZ> yes .. but you can also just click windows .. though a lot of ppl use alt+tab
[09:28] <PingunZ> just some ideas :)
[09:29] <MacSlow> hm... I'm not sure Alt-Tab is obvious for this kind of interface
[09:29] <PingunZ> Just think about it :)
[09:29] <MacSlow> people will see what happens when they move the mouse...
[09:29] <MacSlow> so that will be "communicated" right away... and then people are used to click in widgets to make them active
[09:30] <PingunZ> and also make sure the name field is only selected when ppl really click the field ..
[09:30] <MacSlow> sure
[09:30] <PingunZ> So they won't make it andreasnn ;)
[09:30] <PingunZ> But I'm out .. cya
[09:30] <PingunZ> nice idea btw ;)
[10:03] <MacSlow> andreasn, indeed there are people that like good looks but still prefer to type...
[10:03] <MacSlow> :)
[10:21] <kwwii>  hi MacSlow ... get any response from KDE people about lowfat yet?
[10:22] <MacSlow> kwwii, I talked with some KDE-artists at UDS... but nothing specifically  yet
[10:22] <MacSlow> for myself I want to get lowfat into KDE (konquereor) too after I did add it to nautilus
[10:23] <kwwii> hehe, yeah...that was me that you talked to :p
[10:23] <MacSlow> but the lowfat works of that magnitude is still a bit in the future
[10:23] <MacSlow> kwwii, ah... which of the three KDE-artists are you?
[10:23] <kwwii> the bald old fat one :p
[10:23] <MacSlow> ah ok :)
[10:23] <kwwii> lol
[10:24] <kwwii> I talked to a couple of people about it actually....I'll try to round up some people to look into the idea
[10:24] <MacSlow> well I have not yet exposed my KDE-related plans in public and want to keep it that way until I can for sure say I'll start to work on it by this and that date
[10:24] <kwwii> sure, I can understand that
[10:24] <MacSlow> kwwii, that sounds like a good first approach
[10:25] <kwwii> cool
[10:25] <MacSlow> I want to keep it in a way compiz is done
[10:25] <MacSlow> be as desktop-neutral as possible and provide "hooks" to get it into gnome and kde
[10:26] <kwwii> sounds like a lot of work, but you have to start somewhere ;-)
[10:28] <MacSlow> kwwii, sure
[10:34] <nysosym> hi all
[10:37] <nysosym> MacSlow: i love your GDM idea :)
[10:37] <MacSlow> thx
[10:37] <nysosym> is this really possible?
[10:38] <MacSlow> you would not believe what funky stuff you can do with OpenGL
[10:38] <MacSlow> it will be hard work but in general it is doable
[10:39] <nysosym> sure, but is this possible without huge changes in GDM?
[10:40] <MacSlow> hm... well I try to make it a un-intrusive as human-possible :)
[10:41] <MacSlow> the patch itself will be larger... but I'll try to keep the "entry-points" as small as possible
[10:42] <nysosym> hehe very nice, and we need a new transition from login to the desktop, no cube and no fade, an other "new" effect :)
[10:45] <nysosym> hi mahtava_matt
[10:45] <mahtava_matt> hi
[10:55] <nysosym> hi hejsa
[10:56] <hejsa> Hi
[10:57] <hejsa> Anything cool going on in here?
[11:00] <andreasn> MacSlow: yeah, whatever, I guess I've read too much Cooper of late
[11:03] <MacSlow> andreasn, "Cooper"?
[11:03] <andreasn> Alan Cooper
[11:03] <MacSlow> andreasn, to what kind of books does this boild down?
[11:03] <andreasn> About Face, Inmates etc.
[11:03] <andreasn> interface design books
[11:04] <MacSlow> andreasn, I honestly never read anything like that... I mainly go like "I would love it, if my computer would do this and that in such a way."
[11:04] <andreasn> ah, yes
[11:05] <andreasn> well, I think it's going to be nice, much better than now
[11:05] <MacSlow> andreasn, maybe I could vent my ideas a bit better if I read such books
[11:05] <hejsa> What is going to be nice
[11:05] <andreasn> MacSlow's face browser
[11:05] <hejsa> eeeeh?
[11:05] <MacSlow> and my new backflips (non-tucked)
[11:06] <MacSlow> hejsa, patience
[11:06] <hejsa> :)
[11:08] <hejsa> Actually i just joined a couple of channels here on freenode, its the standard network in gnome-xchat
[11:09] <andreasn> MacSlow: anyway, keep up the cool work
[11:09] <MacSlow> hejsa, irc.freenode.org is a good place for OpenSource-related project-channels
[11:09] <MacSlow> andreasn, as always... share and enjoy :)
[11:10] <hejsa> MacSlow: i know, i've always been on freenode, but never in any ubuntu channels
[11:11] <MacSlow> andreasn, btw... may I ask you to be part of my "fan-club" for the ubuntu-council meeting to help pimp my application for becoming an official ubuntu-member? (date not scheduled yet... have a look at this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda)
[11:11] <hejsa> So what is this channel for, besides talking about random "cool" stuff :)
[11:12] <MacSlow> well it's about artwork (themes, wallpapers, icons, "looks") being part of releases of ubuntu
[11:12] <andreasn> MacSlow: can I do that? I'm not a member myself
[11:13] <hejsa> MacSlow: what is this project you are talking about, something you would like to show
[11:13] <MacSlow> andreasn, I just read the irc-session log on Jono's intro about "How to become an ubuntu-memeber"... bringing "upstream" people as pimping-support is legit too
[11:14] <andreasn> ah
[11:14] <andreasn> will do
[11:14] <MacSlow> hejsa, either have a look at my homepage http://macslow.thepimp.net or at my page on the ubuntu-wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Macslow
[11:14] <MacSlow> andreasn, thx
[11:15] <hejsa> MacSlow: Thanks
[11:37] <hejsa> MacSlow: Looks pretty, im looking forward to try your lowfat
[11:52] <andreasn> MacSlow: another thought about the face-browser thing
[11:52] <MacSlow> andreasn, shot
[11:52] <andreasn> MacSlow: it would be technically possible to make the other users grayscaled using opengl, right?
[11:53] <MacSlow> yes
[11:53] <MacSlow> but I wanted to use the "glowing" as an indication for the "selected" user
[11:53] <andreasn> ah, ok
[11:53] <MacSlow> but I keep you suggestion in mind
[11:53] <andreasn> just wanted to check that you have a good way of showing the selected user
[11:54] <MacSlow> the issue with the grey-scale is that some people have well grey-scale photos for themselves...
[11:54] <MacSlow> and in this case just coloring the selected photo does not work anymore and may be confusing
[11:54] <MacSlow> thus I stick with full-color and the glow
[11:54] <andreasn> good
[11:56] <andreasn> I didn't notice the glow at first, as I just looked at mockup-1
[11:57] <andreasn> but I guess it will be easier to spot in-action
[11:57] <MacSlow> when it's implemented and moving it is more obvious... a still doesn't give the glow justice
[11:59] <andreasn> what happens if the user haven't defined a pic? does it default to the ones in...uh, where is it now again, /usr/share/pixmaps/photos(?) ?
[11:59] <andreasn> I totally want to update those btw, the current ones are horrible and scaringly similar to the ones in xp
[12:00] <MacSlow> a fallback image should be used... I would prefer that to be an SVG because I could create a nice and crisp texture from that
[12:00] <MacSlow> just for the fact that I like to pimp SVG
[12:00] <andreasn> /usr/share/pixmaps/faces
[12:01] <andreasn> ah, yeah, that will probably scale better
[12:01] <MacSlow> and I want the max. size to be 256x256
[12:01] <MacSlow> those tiny 96x96 look like crap... even with filtering
[12:02] <MacSlow> I'm only running into problems on large installations with hundreds of users
[12:02] <andreasn> well, I could probably try to get some 256x256 images from garretts photo album
[12:02] <MacSlow> But I've "counter-measures" for those situations too alreay
[12:03] <MacSlow> andreasn, yeah... do so and feed stuff the me as early as possible
[12:03] <andreasn> well, I need to update those anyway
[12:03] <andreasn> as we talked about them during the boston summit
[12:03] <MacSlow> right now I've used CC-ed photos from flickr and lazily didn't mention the authors of those photos *cough*
[12:04] <MacSlow> wish I'd been there too
[12:05] <andreasn> yeah, it would have been nice meeting you again
[12:05] <andreasn> you're planning on going to Birmingham, right?
[12:07] <MacSlow> hell yeah
[12:07] <andreasn> great! then I'll buy you a beer for this face browser
[12:08] <MacSlow> make that a coke or a drpepper as I don't drink any alcohol :)
[12:09] <MacSlow> and the effect of alcohol on me would probably only be funny for bystanders :)
[12:09] <andreasn> oh, yeah, sure
[12:09] <andreasn> I'll buy you whatever you want to drink