| cjwatson | Burgwork: and that conversation doesn't need to involve me. :) | 12:14 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgwork | cjwatson: nope, but you did post that comment on the wiki page | 12:14 |
| cjwatson | Burgwork: because I volunteered to review that specification. | 12:16 |
| Burgwork | you poor sucker ;) | 12:16 |
| cjwatson | but I'm not the approver - it's just a drive-by | 12:16 |
| cjwatson | we call it "responsibility" around here | 12:16 |
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| cjwatson | Burgwork: (also, context would have helped; I suggest you put your comment on the wiki page instead anyway) | 12:17 |
| Burgwork | ok, no worries | 12:17 |
| LaserJock | hmm, that reminds me. Is there anybody on ubuntu-reviewers team available for a spec review? | 12:19 |
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| _MMA_ | BenC: ping | 12:54 |
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| BenC | _MMA_: pong | 01:13 |
| BenC | or not | 01:14 |
| _MMA_ | Hi sir | 01:14 |
| _MMA_ | The Ubuntu Studio team thanks you. :) | 01:14 |
| _MMA_ | Im the lead on it. | 01:14 |
| _MMA_ | I was gonna reply to the ML but I just signed up. | 01:14 |
| _MMA_ | We will be testing the -lowlatency kernel along with some Ardour deves when the feisty dailys start to build. | 01:16 |
| _MMA_ | *devs | 01:16 |
| _MMA_ | Still around BenC? | 01:17 |
| BenC | MMA: yeah, thanks | 01:17 |
| _MMA_ | Ahh... Ok. | 01:17 |
| _MMA_ | :) | 01:18 |
| BenC | _MMA_: let me know if it does the trick, or if any other changes are needed to help support audio work | 01:18 |
| _MMA_ | How would you like feedback? | 01:18 |
| BenC | _MMA_: You should see linux-image-lowlatency by the end of the week | 01:18 |
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| _MMA_ | Cool. | 01:19 |
| BenC | _MMA_: Emailing kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com would be best | 01:19 |
| === _MMA_ copies address. | ||
| _MMA_ | No problem Ben. When do the Feisty dailys start? | 01:21 |
| keescook | crimsun: still around? I've got libxml2 merged and ready for upload to main too. | 01:26 |
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| keescook | any core-devs around? I've got libxml2 merged, but I need to get it sponsored. | 02:40 |
| ajmitch | keescook: where? | 02:41 |
| keescook | ajmitch: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/feisty-uploads/ | 02:41 |
| ajmitch | ok | 02:41 |
| keescook | ajmitch: thanks! :) | 02:41 |
| ajmitch | np | 02:42 |
| LaserJock | geeze, keescook gets all the core-dev attention ;-) | 02:42 |
| ajmitch | you never ask :) | 02:42 |
| zul | he asked nicely ;) | 02:42 |
| keescook | :) | 02:42 |
| LaserJock | bah | 02:42 |
| LaserJock | what I need is a spec reviewer | 02:42 |
| LaserJock | which is even more rare | 02:42 |
| zul | especially at this time | 02:44 |
| LaserJock | yeah :/ | 02:45 |
| ajmitch | keescook: looks reasonable | 02:45 |
| keescook | ajmitch: thanks | 02:45 |
| LaserJock | zul: it's like they expect us to get it approved before we leave the UDS or something ;-) | 02:46 |
| zul | heh mine is pending approval | 02:46 |
| LaserJock | this is the second time I've had this happen | 02:47 |
| LaserJock | I just need to get faster at drafting | 02:47 |
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| fabbione | morning | 03:28 |
| zul | hey fabbione | 03:28 |
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| Hobbsee | hey fabbione! | 03:31 |
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| Burgundavia | if anybody wishes to help us write a document explaining Feisty release goals, we are now doing so | 03:42 |
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| Burgundavia | where we == the marketing team | 03:42 |
| ajmitch | Burgundavia: it may be a lot clearer after the devel team meeting later this week, once you know what specs are approved | 03:43 |
| Burgundavia | ajmitch: end of week pushes into UWN time | 03:43 |
| Burgundavia | better to do it now and if needed, cut and edit stuff | 03:43 |
| fabbione | mdz: regarding that ndiswrapper, i can look at the package, but i have no way to test the kernel side. I don't have any device that can work with it | 03:44 |
| fabbione | mdz: if that's ok with you then i can look at it | 03:44 |
| fabbione | mdz: otherwise we should find somebody with such piece of equipment | 03:44 |
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| Burgundavia | mdz: ping | 03:59 |
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| LaserJock | Burgundavia: where are you writing this? | 04:08 |
| Burgundavia | gobby | 04:10 |
| Burgundavia | see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LookingForwardAtFeisty | 04:11 |
| BenC | has anyone started a feisty release notes yet? | 04:12 |
| Burgundavia | BenC: the doc we are producing can evolve into release ntoes | 04:12 |
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| alex-weej | holy fucking fuck! | 05:06 |
| alex-weej | i just made a tit of myself | 05:06 |
| alex-weej | just installed u610 on my friend's computer and he had an utterly CRACK disk layout | 05:07 |
| alex-weej | grub installer failed | 05:07 |
| alex-weej | yet managed to overwrite the MBR on his primary disk | 05:07 |
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| alex-weej | somehow grub installing managed to cause a "fatal error" and it just gave up creating the menus and all of that jazz | 05:07 |
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| BenC | lowlatency kernel is going in universe...would linux-restricted-modules-lowlatency also go there, or should I put them in restricted with the other lrm modules? | 05:17 |
| Lathiat | multiverse ? | 05:17 |
| BenC | is multiverse suitable for that? | 05:17 |
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| === BenC has never multiversed | ||
| elmo | BenC: yes, multiverse | 05:17 |
| BenC | elmo: thanks | 05:18 |
| Lathiat | AIUI multiverse is to restricted as universe is to main | 05:18 |
| Burgundavia | BenC: can you post a quick email to the list about what sort of feedback is useful and what is not? | 05:20 |
| alex-weej | i'm a bit miffed that we have to create two branches of kernel stuff just to have optional "Low Latency" support | 05:25 |
| alex-weej | can it not somehow just be a runtime option? | 05:25 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: nope... | 05:29 |
| alex-weej | with no amount of hacking? | 05:29 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: it's just too much hacking that would result in tons of extra code and checking to be done at runtime | 05:29 |
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| alex-weej | fabbione: how do the "other" OSs deal with this? | 05:30 |
| fabbione | "other" as in what? Windows? MacOS? | 05:30 |
| alex-weej | i'm sure Mach users wouldn't settle for anything less - after all it's the kernel in use by most audio professionals | 05:30 |
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| fabbione | because they give you something and you live with that.. | 05:31 |
| fabbione | there is no other way around | 05:32 |
| fabbione | buggy or not... | 05:32 |
| alex-weej | i'm pretty sure it's better than 16ms | 05:32 |
| alex-weej | and nobody complains about bad battery life | 05:32 |
| fabbione | do you have benchmarks and numbers to prove it? | 05:32 |
| alex-weej | not my own | 05:32 |
| fabbione | so how can you be so sure? | 05:32 |
| mpt | s/This package//g | 05:32 |
| alex-weej | but you can bet your bottom dollar that 32ms is noticable when producing | 05:33 |
| _ion | Perhaps it uses a dynamic interrupt frequency. | 05:33 |
| _ion | Btw, the frequency is probably far from the only thing that affects battery life. | 05:34 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: i seriously doubt you do production on a laptop when flying across the ocean when you need battery life | 05:34 |
| alex-weej | that's not the point | 05:34 |
| alex-weej | you're suggesting windows and os x users just deal with it because that's what they're given | 05:35 |
| alex-weej | i'm suggesting that what they're given is a kernel and drivers that can turn around audio way way faster than 32 ms | 05:35 |
| fabbione | <alex-weej> and nobody complains about bad battery life <- i was answering to you | 05:35 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: it's not completely true .. some cards in windows still require special low-latency drivers | 05:35 |
| alex-weej | right, but high end ones go as far as to say <1ms latency | 05:36 |
| mpt | fabbione, Apple actually made a TV ad once about some kid doing production on a laptop when flying across the ocean | 05:36 |
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| LaserJock | mpt: did he make it all the way? :-) | 05:37 |
| joejaxx | asio ftw | 05:37 |
| fabbione | mpt: note that Apple always did multimedia stuff... and it's not exactly very very famous for their server solutions.... | 05:37 |
| fabbione | mpt: differnt target, different optimizations | 05:37 |
| alex-weej | why is it that battery life and low latency can't go hand in hand? | 05:37 |
| === _ion has moved completely to pure hardware for music production. No need to hassle with all these software problems. :-) | ||
| fabbione | mpt: and i can tell you that not even my latest PB can make it all across the ocean.. not even in idle | 05:37 |
| joejaxx | alex-weej: you are worried about production on the go? | 05:38 |
| === alex-weej suspects _ion's move has more to do with lack of Ubuntu support by most software manufacturers :| | ||
| alex-weej | joejaxx: no, i am worried about production sat here with my fat computer | 05:38 |
| _ion | alex-weej: Nope. | 05:38 |
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| fabbione | alex-weej: i still see no problem.. you are getting a low-latency kernel... and you are making a lot of fuss for nothing | 05:39 |
| alex-weej | and i am worried that i have to mess around with replacement packages for everything related to the kernel just so i can get something which windows and mac os x do with one kernel | 05:39 |
| fabbione | nobody knows for sure if windows or macos do change the kernel to achieve this | 05:39 |
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| _ion | alex-weej: For the price of a computer barely adequate for music production, i get an excellent audio workstation with an intuitive interface. | 05:40 |
| alex-weej | ok | 05:41 |
| alex-weej | i prefer the flexibility of software but let's not digress :P | 05:41 |
| joejaxx | fabbione: some card require drivers like lets says asio4all | 05:41 |
| joejaxx | fabbione: on windows that is which decreases latency | 05:41 |
| joejaxx | fabbione: but that is with non-high end cards | 05:42 |
| alex-weej | but this is talking about sound card drivers here | 05:42 |
| fabbione | joejaxx: not different to what i already said | 05:42 |
| alex-weej | well | 05:43 |
| alex-weej | i don't understand our kernel | 05:43 |
| alex-weej | i just think it's a shame we can't have it easier | 05:44 |
| alex-weej | "where are all the good audio production apps?" is the first attack any of my peers have against linux | 05:44 |
| alex-weej | alright, it has firefox, open office, it can play MP3s (!), but it sure as hell can't make a top 40 hit. | 05:44 |
| _MMA_ | alex-weej: Im missing your issue. The -lowlatency kernel will go to primarily serve apps like Ardour. | 05:47 |
| _ion | Ardour is actually very good, although it could surely benefit from some interface design. Jamin is probably a good mastering tool, but my computer is too slow to test it. :-) | 05:47 |
| alex-weej | my point is - why can't we get better performance out of our "regular" kernel? | 05:47 |
| elmo | alex-weej: for the same reason that low latency patches aren't in mainline, because they adversely affect the 99.999% rest of the population who don't care about 32ms | 05:48 |
| alex-weej | [citation needed] | 05:48 |
| _MMA_ | _ion: Some of the Ardour devs are gonna help us test the kernel. I will then give that feedback to BenC. | 05:48 |
| joejaxx | alex-weej: actually it is true | 05:48 |
| joejaxx | there are reasons why things are not in linus upstream | 05:49 |
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| BenC | alex-weej: The dynticks patches will alleviate all this "normal kernel" vs. "low latency" kernel crap | 05:49 |
| BenC | until then, you get what we have now | 05:50 |
| alex-weej | BenC: wassat? | 05:50 |
| BenC | dynticks is like what windows has, where the kernel adjusts timer interrupts based on userspace needs, dynamically | 05:50 |
| alex-weej | brilliant! | 05:50 |
| alex-weej | so why are we even bothering with this low latency kernel stuff, is the need really so immediate that we have to divert resources off working on dynamic ticking? | 05:51 |
| BenC | who knows, maybe it will get into 2.6.20, and we'll release feisty with just a great -generic kernel | 05:51 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: because these patches are complex and very difficult to maintain | 05:52 |
| BenC | alex-weej: resources? There's no developer resources involved in providing this kernel...it's just a buildd/archive resource usage | 05:52 |
| BenC | and by providing it, we aren't taking away from dynticks | 05:52 |
| alex-weej | ok | 05:52 |
| alex-weej | i see | 05:52 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: you need to think not just of the immediate needs, but also in a long term support for security | 05:52 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: given that we need to support a kernel for at least 18 months | 05:52 |
| BenC | exactly, we can't just put dynticks in our kernel and hope for the best | 05:53 |
| alex-weej | i see | 05:53 |
| alex-weej | is the dynticks stuff immature? | 05:53 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: and if one of these patches goes unmaintained it's a disaster | 05:53 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: it's a disaster for our users... we just remove it | 05:53 |
| BenC | alex-weej: I believe they are in -mm | 05:53 |
| alex-weej | ok | 05:53 |
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| fabbione | alex-weej: so having a longer waiting time to get certain things most of the time pays off in the long term | 05:54 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: try to imagine if all of a sudden we can't provide you security support for your synticks kind of thing | 05:54 |
| fabbione | alex-weej: you would be as disappointed as not having it at all | 05:54 |
| alex-weej | well i'm glad the dynticks stuff has actually been done because i was getting a little worried we didn't have a solution at all | 05:54 |
| alex-weej | fabbione: it's ok i understand | 05:55 |
| Amaranth | I forget, is -generic the one that will kill my battery or is the new one? | 05:55 |
| fabbione | plus.. you would get busted security wise, that's worst | 05:55 |
| BenC | Amaranth: lowlatency may shorten battery life | 05:55 |
| Amaranth | Alright | 05:56 |
| Amaranth | I'm not sure who to thank but I gained almost an hour going from dapper to edgy :) | 05:56 |
| === BenC didn't really expect all this hype over low latency | ||
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| BenC | wasn't that big of a deal when we had it enabled by default during dapper development :) | 05:56 |
| _MMA_ | BenC: It is appreciated. ;) | 05:57 |
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| alex-weej | btw my usplash is still a big orange square with an ubuntu ring inside it | 05:58 |
| alex-weej | all the new installations i run are the same as the shutdown one - the black screen with white ubuntu text and logo | 05:58 |
| alex-weej | any ideas what went wrong? | 05:58 |
| alex-weej | (it's only the bootup one that is still orange) | 05:59 |
| joejaxx | fabbione: BenC oh yeah i wanted to apologize for not introducing myself at uds | 06:00 |
| joejaxx | sorray about that | 06:00 |
| joejaxx | sorry* | 06:00 |
| fabbione | joejaxx: uh np.. i suck at remembering names anyway | 06:00 |
| BenC | I'm with fabbione on that one, I suck at names | 06:00 |
| joejaxx | oh alright | 06:01 |
| alex-weej | can anyone shed any light on this? i've reported it as a bug because smartmontools is returning "healthy" for whatever i throw at it https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/72774 | 06:01 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 72774 in Ubuntu "My system takes ages to boot because of "buffer I/O errors"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] | 06:01 |
| _MMA_ | I think it was Ben I told looked like Zakk Wylde: http://www.guitarpart.fr/images/avousdejouer/jouez-comme-zakk-wylde.jpg | 06:02 |
| _MMA_ | @UDS that is. :) | 06:02 |
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| bluefoxicy | So guys | 06:22 |
| bluefoxicy | Who's head do I need to find | 06:22 |
| bluefoxicy | and how do I hammer through it | 06:22 |
| bluefoxicy | VINO. ABSOLUTELY NEEDS. TO DISPLAY AN ICON IN THE NOTIFICATION AREA. | 06:22 |
| bluefoxicy | Someone, I'm not quite sure who or how, managed to dodge out my authentication! | 06:23 |
| bluefoxicy | My auth is not by password; Vino asks me whether to accept or reject connections, and while I wasn't here (or perhaps I was typing too fast and accidentally hit 'a' without seeing the window pop up) someone got around that and connected to my desktop | 06:23 |
| Lathiat | perhaps you need to fix your physical security ;) | 06:24 |
| bluefoxicy | for the past like 6 hours someone's been able to view-- but not control-- my desktop. Eventually I decided to see why my desktop was drawing so freaking slow; I checked netstat (suspecting as much-- I know what VNC does to X performance and people have been trying damn hard) and notice an established connection on 5900 | 06:24 |
| bluefoxicy | Lathiat: someone in another country. | 06:24 |
| bluefoxicy | also my screen locks when I'm AFK and you need a password to get around it | 06:25 |
| Lathiat | bluefoxicy: so, i heard vino takes patches :) | 06:25 |
| bluefoxicy | It'd be, to say the least, VERY NICE to be able to glance at the notification area and tell A) Vino is listening; B) someone is connected; C) that I can click and disconnect them | 06:25 |
| jdub | bluefoxicy: changesets accepted! | 06:25 |
| Lathiat | and/or you can file bugs :) | 06:25 |
| Lathiat | patches preferred | 06:26 |
| bluefoxicy | Lathiat, jdub: That'd be nice if I could code | 06:26 |
| fabbione | bluefoxicy: and this is NOT the forum where to come and rand this way. | 06:26 |
| bluefoxicy | bugs I can file; the Gnome guys have a habit of not listening to anything, maybe I'll flag it 'security sensitive' to get their pants all in a knot | 06:26 |
| fabbione | rant even | 06:26 |
| bluefoxicy | . /exec cat /dev/random ? | 06:27 |
| jdub | bluefoxicy: "not listening to anything"? perhaps in this mode of communication, sure. don't expect someone to lend you their car keys after you tell them their car is a hunk of junk. | 06:28 |
| _ion | bluefoxicy: While you're typing to a window, a suddenly opened new window won't become active. | 06:29 |
| bluefoxicy | _ion: don't say that | 06:30 |
| bluefoxicy | _ion: that means either I did something really dumb, or someone got around VNC authentication on Vino | 06:30 |
| wasabi__ | You have three obvious options. (a) Post a nice polite bug report asking for somebody to do the work for you. (b) do the work yourself or (c) pay somebody else to do it | 06:30 |
| wasabi__ | Badgering people isn't going to help. | 06:31 |
| _ion | bluefoxicy: Of course it's always *possible* the window manager's feature is buggy. | 06:31 |
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| LaserJock | mako: amen! | 06:44 |
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| bluefoxicy | there's a patch | 06:47 |
| bluefoxicy | to supply a tray icon | 06:47 |
| bluefoxicy | the bug it's in is from 2004! | 06:48 |
| bluefoxicy | and it won't be in GNOME 2.18 | 06:48 |
| bluefoxicy | http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154467 | 06:48 |
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| _ion | Funny. The following extra packages will be installed: ntp The following packages will be upgraded: ntp | 07:09 |
| fabbione | who did the merge missed something | 07:14 |
| fabbione | it won't upgrade clean | 07:14 |
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| dholbach | good morning | 07:59 |
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| sfllaw | mvo: Ping? | 08:05 |
| sfllaw | Re: bug 6553 and bug 67146. | 08:05 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 6553 in nautilus "Menu options are blank when no file selected" [Medium,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/6553 | 08:05 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 67146 in synaptic "synaptic pinning/locking does not work" [Medium,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/67146 | 08:05 |
| sfllaw | mvo: I don't think you uploaded the right version into -proposed. | 08:05 |
| sfllaw | You've sent in ...ubuntu12 when you should have uploaded ubuntu12.1. | 08:06 |
| sfllaw | Can you fix this? | 08:06 |
| sfllaw | Also, please make the changelog refer to #67146 instead of #64005. | 08:06 |
| sfllaw | Thanks. | 08:06 |
| Mithrandir | Nafallo: care to fix 67280 ? | 08:07 |
| mvo | sfllaw: it is possible that my upload was not accepted by the ubuntu-archive team, let me check | 08:07 |
| sfllaw | Oh wait, you're right. | 08:07 |
| sfllaw | It's still not there yet. | 08:07 |
| sfllaw | cjwatson: Ping? ^^^ | 08:07 |
| sfllaw | I was looking in the wrong archive. Forgive me, I'm sleepy. | 08:08 |
| mvo | sfllaw: I think the issue was that he wanted a patch without autotools garbage in the diff, I can do this now | 08:08 |
| Nafallo | Mithrandir: hi :-). yea, just saw the comment. will read up on the procedures for NEW ASAP. | 08:08 |
| sfllaw | Could be. | 08:08 |
| sfllaw | Please fix up the changelog too. Then I'll be happy. | 08:08 |
| sfllaw | Strangely, I'm having trouble reproducing a crash in synaptic. | 08:09 |
| sfllaw | It asserts on brokenness, but doesn't outright crash. | 08:09 |
| mvo | sfllaw: I had the same problem, it does only sometimes crash for some reason | 08:09 |
| sfllaw | valgrind would probably tell us why. | 08:10 |
| sfllaw | But that kind of fix is probably too deep. | 08:10 |
| sfllaw | Upload your new package and I'll see if it lets you set fonts in the first place. | 08:10 |
| mvo | sfllaw: no need for valgrind, the fix is trivial :) I will upload now right away | 08:11 |
| sfllaw | Thanks. | 08:11 |
| sfllaw | Ping cjwatson for me about it. | 08:11 |
| sfllaw | I need to go to bed. | 08:11 |
| Mithrandir | Nafallo: coolie, thanks. | 08:12 |
| mvo | sfllaw: I will | 08:12 |
| mvo | sfllaw: I you have time when you are up again I would like to talk to you about release-upgrades testing (for a new wiki page) | 08:12 |
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| seb128 | hey Keybuk | 09:24 |
| Nafallo | morning Keybuk :-) | 09:25 |
| Burgundavia | hey seb128, Keybuk | 09:26 |
| Keybuk | morning | 09:26 |
| seb128 | Keybuk: could you do the sync from bug #73532 please? GNOME packages are FTBFSing until it's synced (or rebuilt) | 09:27 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 73532 in libbonoboui "please sync libbobonoui 2.16.0-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/73532 | 09:27 |
| seb128 | hi Burgundavia | 09:27 |
| Keybuk | seb128: sure, will be doing archive stuff in a bit | 09:30 |
| seb128 | thank you | 09:30 |
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| rsa| | salut | 09:58 |
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| pitti | Good morning | 10:07 |
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| Burgundavia | hey pitti | 10:07 |
| mvo | hey pitti! | 10:10 |
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| seb128 | hello pitti | 10:13 |
| ajmitch | morning pitti | 10:15 |
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| === pitti hugs everyone | ||
| === Burgundavia hugs pitti | ||
| sivang | morning | 10:21 |
| === sivang hugs pitti back | ||
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| pitti | hey sivang | 10:23 |
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| sivang | jono: ping | 10:41 |
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| fabbione | mvo: ping? | 10:49 |
| mvo | hello fabbione | 10:54 |
| sivang | hey mvo ! | 10:56 |
| mvo | hey sivang! how is it going? | 10:56 |
| fabbione | hey mvo | 10:58 |
| fabbione | mvo: bug #59983 | 10:58 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 59983 in ndiswrapper "ndiswrapper in edgy broken" [Medium,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/59983 | 10:58 |
| fabbione | mvo: the short version is: we need to teach feisty upgrader to pull in ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 if ndiswrapper-utils-1.8 is installed | 10:59 |
| fabbione | mvo: do you think you can do that before Herd 1 ? | 10:59 |
| fabbione | mvo: the rest of the bug is related to dapper -> edgy and it doesn't matter to you for now.. it's basically unsolvable | 11:00 |
| sivang | mvo: fine, thanks, you? | 11:00 |
| mvo | fabbione: I think we can do this. herd 1 is tomorrow? | 11:01 |
| fabbione | thu iirc | 11:02 |
| mvo | sivang: good! thanks. | 11:02 |
| mvo | fabbione: I do this now | 11:02 |
| fabbione | mvo: thanks. i did add you to the bug and added a comment | 11:02 |
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| dholbach | cjwatson, mdz: Is it ok to drop gtranslator from main? (not sure why it ever was there) | 11:04 |
| cjwatson | dholbach: what is causing it to be in main right now? | 11:06 |
| cjwatson | (see germinate output, seeds, etc.) | 11:06 |
| dholbach | cjwatson: supported seed | 11:06 |
| dholbach | it makes no sense it's in there and the comment is ... hum, not easy to understand :-) | 11:06 |
| dholbach | seems it's been in main since warty | 11:07 |
| cjwatson | if having a desktop .po editor in main is not useful, then I don't mind | 11:08 |
| cjwatson | I know some people like to download files from Rosetta, translate them locally, and re-upload, though, rather than using Rosetta's web interface | 11:09 |
| cjwatson | perhaps you should check with translators? | 11:09 |
| dholbach | hm, ok - I was just astounded to see it in main, I never thought it was very stable | 11:10 |
| minghua_ | cjwatson: I doubt those people would use gtranslater anyway. | 11:10 |
| minghua_ | my impression is that translators use vim/emacs or kbabel, some maybe use poedit, but few uses gtranslator | 11:11 |
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| cjwatson | minghua_: ok, if it's not used, sure, we should drop it | 11:40 |
| === cjwatson discovers how to transliterate "Ubuntu" into Korean. Ooh, pretty | ||
| cjwatson | 11:41 | |
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| cjwatson | and Kubuntu is | 11:42 |
| dholbach | nice | 11:42 |
| === minghua_ wonders if there are more than one transliterations | ||
| === minghua_ is now known as minghua | ||
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| cjwatson | minghua: that's the one all over the front page of www.ubuntu.or.kr | 11:43 |
| cjwatson | I'd been trying to work it out myself and googling for likely candidates; was also one of my guesses | 11:44 |
| cjwatson | spot who found a transliteration table | 11:44 |
| minghua | I see | 11:44 |
| cjwatson | but they seem to prefer u-bun-tu as a syllabification | 11:45 |
| minghua | shouldn't it be syllabified that way? | 11:46 |
| cjwatson | yeah, probably | 11:47 |
| cjwatson | although I think u-bu-ntu is closer, but that doesn't work well in Korean | 11:48 |
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| tepsipakki | cjwatson: hi, tetex-bin is giving me headache sometimes when installing dapper (preseeded a long list of packages to be installed, tetex-bin as one of them). It hangs on preinst | 11:53 |
| tepsipakki | but would it help debugging if I made a local package which had "set -x" or similar in the preinst? | 11:54 |
| Keybuk | E: mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb is in main but it's source (iceweasel-l10n) is not. | 11:55 |
| Keybuk | well, it looks like it's happened upstream | 11:55 |
| cjwatson | tepsipakki: I guess; I'm not really an expert, sorry | 11:56 |
| cjwatson | tepsipakki: DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer would be my first try though | 11:56 |
| tepsipakki | cjwatson: ok I'll try that too | 11:56 |
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| Hobbsee | ouch, sorry | 12:07 |
| === Hobbsee wonders how that pasted in here | ||
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| _ion | hobbsee: I don't see anything pasted by you. | 12:09 |
| StevenK | Neither did I. | 12:10 |
| Hobbsee | hrm. | 12:10 |
| Hobbsee | maybe i'm going insane? | 12:10 |
| === Hobbsee kicks the laggy irssi | ||
| === dholbach hugs Hobbsee | ||
| === Hobbsee hugs dholbach back :) | ||
| _ion | hobbsee: Irssi does have a paste detector that asks you to confirm a long enough paste, but if it's canceled, the lines should not become visible. | 12:11 |
| Hobbsee | _ion: it was only one line | 12:12 |
| Hobbsee | oh, i see now. now i'm getting messages spliced from different *networks* whicih i *know* are wrong. and at different times | 12:12 |
| StevenK | Hobbsee: Force a redraw? | 12:13 |
| StevenK | /redraw | 12:13 |
| Hobbsee | right | 12:13 |
| _ion | ^L | 12:13 |
| StevenK | Or that. | 12:13 |
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| lehaid | hi, how can i know if a given module in the ubuntu kernel is compiled with a flag or not ? | 12:17 |
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| jayteeuk | lehaid: Will modinfo tell you that? | 12:19 |
| minghua | lehaid: look at your /boot/config-*, but that question belong to #ubuntu, not here | 12:19 |
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| cjwatson | ok, I think I'm going to accept this Debian change that moves /etc/X11/xkb to /usr/share/X11/xkb | 02:08 |
| cjwatson | it's going to take some fiddling, though ... | 02:08 |
| === cjwatson wonders how the symlinks /etc/X11/xkb/compiled and /etc/X11/xkb/xkbcomp get created | ||
| cjwatson | ah, xkbutils | 02:11 |
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| Keybuk | heh | 02:24 |
| Keybuk | funny when you do a merge, and think "hang on, I patched this" | 02:24 |
| Keybuk | and then realise you never uploaded the fixed version | 02:24 |
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| underzsof | WWW.UNDERZSOFT.COM | 02:25 |
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| gnomefreak | was NVU removed from repos for a reason? | 02:35 |
| gnomefreak | or is it under a different name in feisty? | 02:35 |
| highvoltage | gnomefreak: it's still there | 02:36 |
| gnomefreak | highvoltage: not here its not | 02:36 |
| highvoltage | gnomefreak: just enable universe | 02:36 |
| gnomefreak | i have it | 02:36 |
| highvoltage | Filename: pool/universe/s/sl/sl_3.03-14_i386.deb | 02:36 |
| gnomefreak | W: Unable to locate package nvu | 02:36 |
| highvoltage | ^^^ that's in edgy | 02:36 |
| highvoltage | weird. | 02:37 |
| gnomefreak | im on feisty | 02:37 |
| Mithrandir | hmm, it's not in feisty, no. | 02:37 |
| StevenK | Or in Debian | 02:37 |
| highvoltage | ah well, then toughies :) | 02:37 |
| gnomefreak | lol | 02:37 |
| Mithrandir | (From Debian) RoM; abandoned upstream | 02:37 |
| gnomefreak | i kind of liked it | 02:37 |
| StevenK | That gives the version in Edgy a nice kind of irony. | 02:38 |
| StevenK | nvu | 1.0final-2ubuntu2 | edgy/universe | source, amd64, i386 | 02:38 |
| giskard | gnomefreak, because is buggy and unmaintained | 02:38 |
| highvoltage | it's quite popular in some schools. strange that it's abandoned. | 02:38 |
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| highvoltage | heh | 02:38 |
| gnomefreak | safe to say we are not getting it back than? | 02:39 |
| giskard | Mithrandir, i asked for the removal, it's buggy and umaintained by upstream | 02:39 |
| giskard | gnomefreak, did you know about http://kompozer.net/ ? | 02:40 |
| _MMA_ | gnomefreak: I think its turning into something called "Composer". | 02:40 |
| gnomefreak | no i did not | 02:40 |
| _MMA_ | Beat me to it. | 02:40 |
| gnomefreak | ty | 02:40 |
| giskard | _MMA_, yeah! Kompozer ;) | 02:40 |
| highvoltage | quanta is cool if you have kde, otherwise vim is king :) (but this is really a discussion for #ubuntu, I'll stay quiet now) | 02:41 |
| _MMA_ | Heres NVU's author's blog: http://glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?Nvu | 02:42 |
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| freeflying_ | why don't we merge fontconfig from debian, it's alread 2.4.1 in sid | 02:47 |
| gnomefreak | are we looking at packaging it for feisty/feisty+1 | 02:47 |
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| cjwatson | rodarvus: around? I'd like to run this xkeyboard-config change past you, if you care | 03:11 |
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| cjwatson | Mithrandir: could you eyeball http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/xkeyboard-config.diff? That's just the new diff versus Debian; you can have the diff versus previous Ubuntu as well, but it's big and fat and in some ways less interesting 'cos there's a new upstream and a repackaging in there | 03:29 |
| heno | Keybuk, cjwatson: either of you want to look at the braille-support spec again? | 03:29 |
| cjwatson | it's the preinst code I mostly care about | 03:29 |
| cjwatson | heno: oh, yeah, it's sitting open in my browser already waiting for me to get round to it | 03:30 |
| heno | heh, ok :) | 03:30 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: we can't get rid of the two symlinks from xkbutils? | 03:32 |
| cjwatson | Mithrandir: we can, but the transition would be a hairy mess because the server uses those | 03:32 |
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| cjwatson | I'm not too horribly uncomfortable with just having a small symlink farm in /etc/X11/xkb/ | 03:32 |
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| Mithrandir | ok | 03:33 |
| cjwatson | (and xkb-data would have to have Conflicts, etc., to make sure its preinst worked) | 03:33 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: ok, looks good to me | 03:34 |
| cjwatson | right, thanks. It's possible I lost some of the patches from dapper era; checking | 03:34 |
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| cjwatson | they seem to be mostly backports or stuff that's been submitted so far | 03:38 |
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| giskard | ogra, ping :) | 03:48 |
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| ogra | giskard, pong | 03:49 |
| cjwatson | right, there goes xkeyboard-config. let me know if your keyboard explodes or something | 03:49 |
| giskard | ogra what is useful for patches-old/ in the debian/ of gnome-power-manager? | 03:49 |
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| Mithrandir | Keybuk: can you see a reason why wodim seems not to have been synced from Debian? | 03:50 |
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| ogra | giskard, we didnt use any of these patches since dapper, i didnt want to throw them away in case we'd need to quickly enable one of them again ... you can remove the dir if you like | 03:51 |
| giskard | ogra, who wrote these patches? | 03:51 |
| ogra | most of them daniel silverstone iirc | 03:52 |
| ogra | i'd need to look them up ... | 03:52 |
| Mithrandir | hmm, maybe it ftbfs-ed | 03:52 |
| ogra | they should all appear in the changelog somewhere | 03:52 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: because it doesn't exist in Debian? | 03:53 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, it needs cmake in main | 03:53 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: does, it's a binary | 03:53 |
| ogra | its already synced (i looked at it yesterday) | 03:53 |
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| cjwatson | from cdrkit | 03:53 |
| ogra | its in cdrkit | 03:53 |
| Keybuk | ahh | 03:53 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: when specifying syncs, please mention if it's a binary <g> | 03:53 |
| ogra | we'll need a cdrecord->wodim transition | 03:53 |
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| ogra | and cmake in main | 03:53 |
| cjwatson | ogra: Debian already has a perfectly good transition | 03:54 |
| Keybuk | cdrkit is stuck in dep-wait | 03:54 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: I thought it was the name of the source package, which was why I was unable to track it down myself. | 03:54 |
| ogra | ah, cool | 03:54 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: could you give back lshw for me? it should build now | 03:54 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: as a penance, I'll do three NEWs now. | 03:54 |
| cjwatson | (promoted tipa for it) | 03:54 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: done | 03:55 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: enjoy, it's beryl :P | 03:55 |
| giskard | :) | 03:55 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: I wasn't thinking of _that_ bit. :-P | 03:56 |
| Keybuk | that's all that was in NEW last time I looked | 03:56 |
| mjg59 | If it's still got mesa, can you reject it and ask them to build-depend on mesa-swx11-source? | 03:56 |
| mjg59 | (Assuming that that's an adequate amount of mesa, and I'd be impressed if it isn't) | 03:56 |
| giskard | imbrandon, fabo and me would be happy to see beryl accepted ;) | 03:56 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Have you tested that patch yet? | 03:56 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: thanks | 03:56 |
| mjg59 | Or should I find someone else to? | 03:56 |
| cjwatson | giskard: package it properly, then ;-) | 03:57 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: not yet | 03:57 |
| giskard | mjg59, build beryl against mesa-swx11-source? | 03:57 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: compiz doesn't work on my desktop | 03:57 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Because you're using insufficiently new nvidia drivers? | 03:57 |
| mjg59 | giskard: If it includes its own copy of mesa, then yes | 03:58 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Or because of other insanity? | 03:58 |
| gnomefreak | thought someone already built beryl for universe | 03:58 |
| mjg59 | tyrosine% apt-cache show beryl | 03:58 |
| mjg59 | W: Unable to locate package beryl | 03:58 |
| gnomefreak | atleast he was supposed to | 03:58 |
| cjwatson | gnomefreak: when ftpmasters are telling you that it's in NEW, perhaps you can believe them | 03:59 |
| gnomefreak | it hasnt been uploaded yet | 03:59 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: yes | 03:59 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Ok, good to know | 03:59 |
| cjwatson | gnomefreak: it has. it's in NEW. listen to us | 03:59 |
| gnomefreak | oh | 03:59 |
| cjwatson | 136349 | S- | beryl-settings | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1 | two days | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | | * beryl-settings/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11 | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | 136348 | S- | beryl-plugins | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1 | two days | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | | * beryl-plugins/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11 | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | 136347 | S- | beryl-manager | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1 | two days | 04:00 |
| Mithrandir | dholbach: why do you include the LGPL as well as the GPL in gnome-specimen's copyright file? | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | | * beryl-manager/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11 | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | 136346 | S- | beryl-core | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1 | two days | 04:00 |
| cjwatson | | * beryl-core/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11 | 04:00 |
| Keybuk | Mithrandir: I usually make maintainers do that | 04:00 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: when it's GPL-only? | 04:00 |
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| Keybuk | Mithrandir: oh, not in that circumstance, no :P when it contains GPL and LGPL code | 04:00 |
| Mithrandir | oh, sorry, my fault. | 04:00 |
| Mithrandir | it does include LGPL code | 04:01 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Mm? If something's a mixture of GPL and BSD, do you want the BSD headers in copyright as well? | 04:01 |
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| dholbach | Mithrandir: because the maintainer has it in one header, I asked him to fix it and he did it in bzr | 04:01 |
| dholbach | Mithrandir: next release will be gpl only | 04:01 |
| cjwatson | freeflying_: the fontconfig merge is on Ian's to-do list according to merges.ubuntu.com | 04:02 |
| Mithrandir | dholbach: I'll reject the current one, it fails to ship a copy of the LGPL anywhere in the orig.tar.gz. | 04:02 |
| freeflying_ | cjwatson: thanks | 04:02 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: I tend to overlook that, as there's nothing contradictory there | 04:03 |
| dholbach | Mithrandir: it's in the header | 04:03 |
| dholbach | but oh well... | 04:03 |
| Keybuk | the GPL/LGPL thing requires a "choice to distribute under the GPL instead" | 04:03 |
| Keybuk | which I prefer the users to make, not us | 04:03 |
| mjg59 | Keybuk: Well, the total work can only be under the GPL | 04:03 |
| mjg59 | If they're looking at reusing individual pieces of source, they need to look at the file-level copyrights anyway | 04:04 |
| giskard | mjg59, i know, upstream will fix this in the next release. | 04:04 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: sure, but when split up again, they should be under the LGPL and GPL separately | 04:04 |
| Keybuk | and in theory, the LGPL says once you choose to make it GPL, you can't set it back again (because the GPL doesn't allow that) | 04:05 |
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| Mithrandir | dholbach: in what header? One header says "this file under the LGPL, you should have received a copy with this software". And no copy in the orig.tar.gz | 04:05 |
| dholbach | nm, I'll package bzr | 04:06 |
| mjg59 | giskard: It's unlikely to get through new until that's resolved. We really don't want to carry around multiple copies of the same source when it can be avoided | 04:08 |
| giskard | mjg59, ok. | 04:13 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 04:16 |
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| mvo | fabbione: still here? should the dist-upgrade install ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 if 1.1 is installed too? or only if 1.8 is installed? | 04:23 |
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| rodarvus | cjwatson, sorry for the delay answering. Mithrandir is the xkb guy among us (some time ago we "divided" efforts into libs+kbd for him, server and drivers for me) | 04:28 |
| Keybuk | rodarvus: talking of which, xfree86-driver-synaptics needs special attention | 04:28 |
| rodarvus | I noticed Mithrandir already reviewed your debdiff, but apart it seem ok for me too | 04:28 |
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| rodarvus | Keybuk, *nods*, indeed | 04:30 |
| rodarvus | mjg59 "owns" this package :) | 04:31 |
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| rodarvus | (there are patches from him in there I don't dare touching) | 04:31 |
| Keybuk | mjg59 is "busy" with his PhD, you end up nominally owning it because it starts with "X" :) | 04:31 |
| rodarvus | heh, right | 04:31 |
| Keybuk | lp_archive@drescher:~/syncs$ M -S xfree86-driver-synaptics | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | xfree86-driver-synaptics | 0.14.4-1 | feisty/universe | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | lp_archive@drescher:~/syncs$ M -S xserver-xorg-input-synaptics | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | xserver-xorg-input-synaptics | 0.14.6-0ubuntu3 | feisty | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | -- | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | we have two different source packages, producing two different binaries | 04:33 |
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| mjg59 | We have this discussion every single release | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | Debian has one source package (xfree86-driver-synaptics) which produces both binaries | 04:33 |
| Keybuk | mjg59: the discussion clearly hasn't been resolved ? | 04:33 |
| mjg59 | Every time you ask, I say "Drop the one in universe" | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | right | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | but that's wrong | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | because there's still one in Debian trying to sync in to Ubuntu | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | so it doesn't actually solve the problem | 04:34 |
| mjg59 | Then stop syncing it | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | why? | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | we inherit X from Debian now | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | why aren't we inheriting this? | 04:34 |
| mjg59 | Because Debian appears to show little interest in fixing the problems with it working out of hte box | 04:34 |
| Keybuk | can't we apply our xserver-xorg-input-synaptics patch to the Debian xfree86-driver-synaptics package? | 04:35 |
| mjg59 | Seemingly not, since our driver is newer than the Debian one | 04:35 |
| Keybuk | it isn't | 04:35 |
| Keybuk | it's the same upstream version | 04:35 |
| Keybuk | feisty has 0.14.6-0ubuntu3 | 04:35 |
| Keybuk | unstable has 0.14.6-1 | 04:35 |
| mjg59 | Oh, right | 04:35 |
| mjg59 | But, uh. Why xfree86-driver-synaptics? | 04:36 |
| Keybuk | *shrug* who cares | 04:36 |
| Keybuk | they probably figured not to rename the source | 04:37 |
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| mjg59 | Yeah. Shifting over to that ought to be reasonable, then. | 04:38 |
| Keybuk | can you do that merge? | 04:39 |
| mjg59 | Given that it's the same upstream, the merge should be trivial | 04:39 |
| mjg59 | I can't really do it right now, though | 04:39 |
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| mjg59 | The ubuntu diff applies to the Debian package with minor rejects, which can be ignored | 04:42 |
| mjg59 | With the exception that it needs to be told to use -fno-stack-lala again | 04:43 |
| dholbach | Mithrandir: uploaded a fixed version | 04:46 |
| mdz | dholbach: yes (gtranslator) | 04:50 |
| dholbach | mdz: gracias | 04:50 |
| mdz | fabbione: the main issue is that the wrong version of ndiswrapper is provided by default; it's purely a packaging problem | 04:51 |
| mdz | Burgundavia: pong | 04:51 |
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| Keybuk | woop! the only remaining merge with my name against it is sysvinit | 05:05 |
| Keybuk | I guess I can't put that one off any longer | 05:05 |
| === Keybuk goes to make tea | ||
| === pitti cheers Key 'merge-master' buk | ||
| Tonio__ | mdz: hi ! little question concerning a packaging issue | 05:07 |
| Keybuk | pitti: it's amazing the amount of motivation you can have when you're avoiding doing something else :p | 05:07 |
| pitti | hehe | 05:07 |
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| pitti | Keybuk: likewise here: instead of testing the dovecot security update manually I wrote a whole automatic test suite | 05:07 |
| Tonio__ | mdz: in the case there is no new upstream release between edgy and feisty yet, but a little packaging issue has been corrected, is that backport relevent or simply an sru | 05:08 |
| Tonio__ | ? | 05:08 |
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| mvo | fabbione: could you have a look at #21117 ? I haven't seen it in a while (since pre-dapper) but it has come back for edgy->feisty upgrades | 05:18 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: I have four to go, not counting updated merges | 05:21 |
| cjwatson | Tonio__: that depends on the impact of the packaging problem | 05:21 |
| cjwatson | Tonio__: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates | 05:21 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: done pam yet? :) | 05:22 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: nope | 05:22 |
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| cjwatson | doing d-i instead, which is more urgent and equally procrastination-worthy | 05:22 |
| Keybuk | heh | 05:22 |
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| Tonio__ | damned connection... | 05:28 |
| Keybuk | [Updating] amiwm (0 [Ubuntu] < 0.20.48-7.1 [Debian] ) | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | * Trying to add amiwm... | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | - <amiwm_0.20.48-7.1.dsc: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/> | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | - <amiwm_0.20.48-7.1.diff.gz: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/> | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | - <amiwm_0.20.48.orig.tar.gz: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/> | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | forget beryl | 05:30 |
| Keybuk | there's something that's been sorely missing from Ubuntu | 05:30 |
| thom | hah | 05:32 |
| Keybuk | what a strange package | 05:34 |
| Keybuk | it puts firmware in /usr/lib/firmware ... | 05:34 |
| Keybuk | (bluez-firmware) | 05:34 |
| === Keybuk wonders what picon is | ||
| Keybuk | apart from a planet in BSG, that is | 05:36 |
| ogra | BSG ? | 05:36 |
| ogra | Keybuk, thanks for claning up the mess in sysklogd, i'm really sorry for that ... | 05:36 |
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| thom | ogra: battlestar galactica | 05:38 |
| pitti | doko: do you plan to merge gettext soon? 0.15 causes some packages to FTBFS due to xgettext segfaulting; I can do the merge if you want | 05:38 |
| ogra | ah | 05:39 |
| ogra | thom, thanks :) | 05:39 |
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| mdz | Mithrandir: ping re: Herd 1 | 05:55 |
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| Keybuk | we should so name it Hurd just to see if anyone's paying attention | 05:55 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: hiya | 05:56 |
| kylem | Keybuk, dude, that's not funny. :) | 05:56 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: it's waiting for installer stuff before I freeze the archive; I've started trying to make *-desktop installable. | 05:56 |
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| Keybuk | kylem: oh, sorry; when they hired you as a Kernel Developer, didn't they tell you *which* Kernel? | 05:57 |
| kylem | *really* not funny. | 05:57 |
| Mithrandir | (no point in freezing until we have at least most of the bits present and accounted for) | 05:57 |
| kylem | ;-) | 05:57 |
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| mdz | Keybuk: yes | 05:58 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: I have people coming over now, so I have to go, if you have more questions or stuff you want to discuss, I'll be around in about four hours. | 06:01 |
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| giskard | mjg59, if I upoad a new version of beryl-core now (= in a few minutes) you will accept it? | 06:07 |
| mjg59 | giskard: I'm not an archive admin, I'm afraid | 06:08 |
| giskard | no problem | 06:08 |
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| TreMobyl | ok, something's seriously hosed. It's apparnetly on the initram. | 06:13 |
| Keybuk | TreMobyl: see /topic | 06:14 |
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| jdong | what is the arbitrary size that tmpfs imposes on itself if I mount with no -o size argument? | 06:15 |
| jdong | right now, it seems to be 505M on my system with 1G ram and 2G swap | 06:15 |
| Keybuk | jdong: sizeof(swap) | 06:15 |
| jdong | Keybuk: really? | 06:16 |
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| jdong | lrm 505M 17M 489M 4% | 06:16 |
| jdong | Mem: 1009 982 27 | 06:16 |
| jdong | Swap: 1388 0 1388 | 06:16 |
| jdong | the numbers don't seem to match up at all | 06:16 |
| jdong | I'm puzzled | 06:16 |
| Keybuk | actually, it might be 50% of swap | 06:16 |
| jdong | Keybuk: I can force it larger with -o size, right? | 06:16 |
| Keybuk | ah, no | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | "Half of the available RAM" | 06:17 |
| jdong | oh, ok | 06:17 |
| jdong | ooh, and I can -o remount,size=800M and it works :) | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | yeah | 06:17 |
| Keybuk | you need 800MB for lrm? | 06:17 |
| jdong | no | 06:17 |
| jdong | :) | 06:17 |
| jdong | I'm doing pbuilder in tmpfs | 06:17 |
| jdong | just for fun :) | 06:17 |
| jdong | it is a LOT faster :) | 06:18 |
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| Adri2000 | does anyone know about the date for the next CC? or Mark knows? | 06:18 |
| jdong | only thing is I wish pbuilder could bind-mount its APT cache | 06:18 |
| jdong | Keybuk: so does disk cache, other apps, or tmpfs take priority if tmpfs starts growing > free RAM? | 06:20 |
| Keybuk | jdong: define priority? | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | priority for what? | 06:21 |
| jdong | Keybuk: i.e. what gets shoved into swap the most? | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | whatever's being used the least | 06:22 |
| jdong | I see | 06:22 |
| TreMobyl | bugfiling time, it seems | 06:22 |
| mjg59 | jdong: The kernel keeps track of when each page was last used | 06:22 |
| mjg59 | jdong: When stuff needs to be pushed to swap, it pushes the least recently used page | 06:22 |
| TreMobyl | hey mjg | 06:23 |
| jdong | oh, so tmpfs just requests pages from the VM? | 06:23 |
| mjg59 | Yes | 06:23 |
| jdong | that's brilliant :) | 06:23 |
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| mjg59 | ramfs just uses ram, so is generally not preferable | 06:24 |
| Keybuk | the cute thing is that the pages are shared with the page cache | 06:24 |
| Keybuk | so you don't end up putting tmpfs things in the page cache separately | 06:24 |
| jdong | cool | 06:24 |
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| jdong | aww, swap can't be sparse? :D | 06:25 |
| jdong | how disappointing | 06:25 |
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| Keybuk | http://merges.ubuntu.com/main-trend.png | 06:43 |
| Keybuk | ^ sweet, we're about half way through the merges | 06:44 |
| Keybuk | (the yellow bit eating into the red) | 06:44 |
| mako | Laser_away: glad you appreciated it | 06:45 |
| Keybuk | dholbach: MOTU don't appear to be making any headway ? | 06:45 |
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| wasabi_ | Hmm. ubuntu-minimal should not depend on klogd | 06:52 |
| wasabi_ | It should depend on kernel-log-daemon or some such | 06:52 |
| Keybuk | wasabi_: generally speaking we depend on real packages, as it defines the Ubuntu supported system | 06:52 |
| wasabi_ | Hmm. Still. Realistically, installing syslog-ng should not cause ubuntu-minimal to be removed, imo. | 06:53 |
| wasabi_ | As ubuntu-minimal is used to track new packages too | 06:53 |
| Keybuk | yes, long running bug/bitch/wishlist | 06:53 |
| wasabi_ | why is kernel-log-daemon | klogd bad? | 06:53 |
| wasabi_ | Err, reversed. | 06:54 |
| Keybuk | it's not bad, so much as not actually possible :p | 06:54 |
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| seb128 | Keybuk: did you have a chance to look at bug #73532? | 07:02 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 73532 in libbonoboui "please sync libbobonoui 2.16.0-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/73532 | 07:02 |
| seb128 | Keybuk: GNOME packages are FTBFSing for the moment | 07:02 |
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| Keybuk | no, I didn't | 07:09 |
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| Keybuk | you can't spell bonobo either, eh? | 07:10 |
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| Keybuk | done | 07:11 |
| LaserJock | Keybuk: do you have a little time for a quick spec review? | 07:13 |
| Keybuk | LaserJock: no, sorry | 07:14 |
| LaserJock | k, np | 07:14 |
| seb128 | Keybuk: thank you ;) | 07:18 |
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| AcidBurn | keep having a problem with the sky2 driver for ethernet | 07:31 |
| AcidBurn | dmesg output; | 07:32 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: a reply to my email would be sufficient, thanks | 07:32 |
| AcidBurn | [17217507.128000] APIC error on CPU0: 40(40) | 07:32 |
| AcidBurn | [17217603.980000] APIC error on CPU0: 40(40) | 07:32 |
| AcidBurn | [17217643.748000] sky2 eth1: Link is down. | 07:32 |
| AcidBurn | [17217649.284000] sky2 eth1: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex, flow control none | 07:32 |
| AcidBurn | [17218331.376000] APIC error on CPU0: 40(40) | 07:32 |
| AcidBurn | [17218470.436000] APIC error on CPU0: 40(40) | 07:32 |
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| AcidBurn | it would appear, that the link would go down, lose it connection to the linksys router.. odd | 07:34 |
| AcidBurn | having this trouble with kubuntu and xubuntu | 07:35 |
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| pitti | slomo: ping | 07:42 |
| slomo | pitti: pong | 07:43 |
| pitti | slomo: hi | 07:43 |
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| slomo | hi pitti :) | 07:44 |
| pitti | slomo: apport was recently changed to pick up unhandled exceptions for Python programs; I'd like to do the same for crashing Mono programs | 07:44 |
| pitti | slomo: (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApportImprovements spec) | 07:44 |
| pitti | slomo: do you have a broad idea how this can be achieved? | 07:44 |
| pitti | slomo: i. e. changing Mono's default exception handler to build a crash report? | 07:45 |
| slomo | well, shouldn't be too hard :) but i don't know the code | 07:45 |
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| pitti | slomo: we just need to find a way to make mono interact sanely with the python library (probably through an executable wrapper) | 07:47 |
| pitti | slomo: can we discuss this this evening or tomorrow? (I need to finish the spec by Thursday) | 07:47 |
| slomo | maybe later this evening or tomorrow in the morning if this is fine with you :) | 07:50 |
| pitti | slomo: absolutely, I have my OpenWeek talk in 8 minutes anyway | 07:52 |
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| === pitti hugs slomo | ||
| slomo | pitti: ok :) i'll ping you when i have some minutes | 07:53 |
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| cr3 | what's the name of that graphic controller and monitor autodetection in casper? | 08:17 |
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| Kano | hi | 08:18 |
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| ogra | cr3, xserver-xorg's postinst script | 08:20 |
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| cr3 | ogra: ah, so the live cd is exactly the same as dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg. thanks | 08:20 |
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| Kano | i am just trying to compile a package that needs linux/compiler.h on ubuntu. on debian that header is provided by the linux-kernel-headers package, that is missing | 08:20 |
| ogra | cr3, i think its dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical xserver-xorg (for no questions) | 08:21 |
| cr3 | ogra: you read my mind, I was wondering how it didn't ask for questions. re-thanks :) | 08:21 |
| ogra | either that or DEBIAN_FRONTEND is set to noninteractive, i dont know the exact details of casper | 08:22 |
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| cr3 | why was the LAMP option removed from the installation options of the 6.10 server install cd? | 08:49 |
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| cr3 | there doesn't even seem to be a lamp meta package :( | 08:51 |
| AcidBurn | anyone for the sky2 bug problem ? | 08:53 |
| Burgwork | AcidBurn: sky2 bug? | 08:55 |
| AcidBurn | as you can see above from my post | 08:55 |
| AcidBurn | it would appear the driver, is not behaving correctly | 08:55 |
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| BenC | Anyone know a good perl expression to take a single line of text and add linefeeds as word boundaries at or less than 76 characters? | 09:20 |
| BenC | it's ok if it expects to only add one newline | 09:20 |
| BenC | nm, I think I got it | 09:20 |
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| _ion | libtext-autoformat-perl - Perl module for automatic text wrapping and reformating libtext-reform-perl - Perl module for manual text wrapping and reformating | 09:22 |
| _ion | Text::AutoFormat is quite intelligent, e.g. indentation and mail quoting ("> " prefix) are respected. | 09:22 |
| BenC | _ion: you rock, thanks | 09:23 |
| _ion | http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Text-Autoformat-1.13/lib/Text/Autoformat.pm | 09:26 |
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| _ion | There's the documentation. | 09:26 |
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| BenC | _ion: Text::Wrap did the trick too, and it's stock perl | 09:29 |
| _ion | Oh, i forgot about that. | 09:29 |
| _ion | I haven't touched perl much for a long time. First i found python and realized how much perl sucks, then i found ruby and realized how much python sucks. ;-) | 09:31 |
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| elmo | ugh | 09:35 |
| elmo | BenC: netxtreme II (bcm5708) not supported in edgy? | 09:35 |
| kylem | should be supported by bnx2.ko | 09:37 |
| BenC | elmo: yeah, bnx2 has the PCI id for it in edgy | 09:38 |
| elmo | I don't have that module on the server CD? | 09:38 |
| BenC | elmo: Must be missing from the udev's :/ | 09:38 |
| pirast_ | doko, when are you going to fix bug #62432? | 09:38 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 62432 in openoffice.org "Crash when copying text from OpenOffice to other applications" [Unknown,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/62432 | 09:38 |
| BenC | udeb's even | 09:38 |
| elmo | BenC: doh. want a bug? | 09:39 |
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| BenC | elmo: don't ask if I want a bug :) | 09:39 |
| BenC | elmo: But sure, file one and we'll get it into a -security update | 09:39 |
| elmo | completely kernel unrelated, but could we make the server default to creating partitions noatime? | 09:40 |
| kylem | eh, why? | 09:42 |
| elmo | because we use deadline on servers -> writes hurt, atime -> insane amounts of writes, and I've never seen anyone care about atime on a server, but maybe that's just me | 09:43 |
| keescook | the only reason I've seen to care about atime is for people using a local partition for mbox reading. that's pretty rare these days. | 09:44 |
| pitti | keescook: and apport for telling apart seen from unseen reports; maybe I should change that | 09:45 |
| keescook | pitti: ah! forgot about that. :) | 09:45 |
| elmo | LP 73647 | 09:48 |
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| Adri2000 | elmo: do you know if the next CC is planned yet? | 10:03 |
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| Gadi | can someone tell me if udevd gets called once or twice in initramfs? I am trying to track down a problem, and when I get a shell in initramfs I see 2 calls to udevd | 10:29 |
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| Mithrandir | mdz: I can't see any mails from you in my inbox at least? | 10:34 |
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| mdz | Mithrandir: /msg'd | 10:37 |
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| jdong | when's next archive day? | 10:53 |
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| Burgwork | sfllaw: you got me a url for this fridge event? | 11:01 |
| sfllaw | Burgwork: Nope. I did send an e-mail to fridge-devel. | 11:02 |
| mdke | Burgwork: just copy what was done for previous hug days | 11:03 |
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| Burgwork | sfllaw: done | 11:08 |
| Burgwork | hey jono | 11:08 |
| sfllaw | Burgwork: I understand you give away stickers? | 11:09 |
| Burgwork | I do | 11:09 |
| jono | hey | 11:09 |
| sfllaw | Burgwork: How can I convince you to send me some? | 11:09 |
| Burgwork | sfllaw: bribes | 11:09 |
| sfllaw | Burgwork: I'd like to be able to give them away. | 11:09 |
| sfllaw | Burgwork: What kind of bribes? | 11:10 |
| Burgwork | new X60 | 11:10 |
| sfllaw | Burgwork: Ouch. | 11:11 |
| Burgwork | stop complaining and start buying! | 11:11 |
| Burgwork | pm me your addy and I will get you some | 11:11 |
| mc44 | Burgwork: you're famous! Name checked on TWiT :) | 11:11 |
| Burgwork | twit? | 11:11 |
| mc44 | Burgwork: This Week in Tech, podcast | 11:12 |
| Burgwork | oh joy | 11:12 |
| === Burgwork adds that to "mentioned on Slashdot", amongst other places | ||
| sfllaw | Burgwork: Congrats! | 11:12 |
| === sfllaw hugs Burgwork. | ||
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| chisefu | Burgwork peddles stickers on the interweb for net pr0ps | 11:16 |
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| Lin | hi all | 11:31 |
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| Lin | is it possible install ubuntu edgy using fai.. if so.. the steps are same as debian? if not.. where can I read about? | 11:33 |
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| Burgwork | Lin: yes | 11:36 |
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| Lin | Burgwork: same steps as debian.. | 11:36 |
| Burgwork | not entirely certain | 11:37 |
| keescook | siretart: I updated SbuildLVMHowto to point to my mk-schroot-lv.sh script that does all the magic in one go. Very handy. :) | 11:38 |
| Lin | Burgwork: the edgy installer is different as the previous.. I dont think that its debian installer. | 11:38 |
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| neuralis | rodarvus: ping | 11:42 |
| rodarvus | neuralis, pong | 11:42 |
| Burgwork | Lin: d-i is on the alternate cd | 11:42 |
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| Lin | Burgwork: I thought that it was abandoned. | 11:43 |
| neuralis | dilinger: rodarvus is around, let's get him in a channel somewhere | 11:43 |
| Lin | Burgwork: good to know | 11:43 |
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