[12:14] <cjwatson> Burgwork: and that conversation doesn't need to involve me. :)
[12:14] <Burgwork> cjwatson: nope, but you did post that comment on the wiki page
[12:16] <cjwatson> Burgwork: because I volunteered to review that specification.
[12:16] <Burgwork> you poor sucker ;)
[12:16] <cjwatson> but I'm not the approver - it's just a drive-by
[12:16] <cjwatson> we call it "responsibility" around here
[12:17] <cjwatson> Burgwork: (also, context would have helped; I suggest you put your comment on the wiki page instead anyway)
[12:17] <Burgwork> ok, no worries
[12:19] <LaserJock> hmm, that reminds me. Is there anybody on ubuntu-reviewers team available for a spec review?
[12:54] <_MMA_> BenC: ping
[01:13] <BenC> _MMA_: pong
[01:14] <BenC> or not
[01:14] <_MMA_> Hi sir
[01:14] <_MMA_> The Ubuntu Studio team thanks you. :)
[01:14] <_MMA_> Im the lead on it.
[01:14] <_MMA_> I was gonna reply to the ML but I just signed up.
[01:16] <_MMA_> We will be testing the -lowlatency kernel along with some Ardour deves when the feisty dailys start to build.
[01:16] <_MMA_> *devs
[01:17] <_MMA_> Still around BenC?
[01:17] <BenC> MMA: yeah, thanks
[01:17] <_MMA_> Ahh... Ok.
[01:18] <_MMA_> :)
[01:18] <BenC> _MMA_: let me know if it does the trick, or if any other changes are needed to help support audio work
[01:18] <_MMA_> How would you like feedback?
[01:18] <BenC> _MMA_: You should see linux-image-lowlatency by the end of the week
[01:19] <_MMA_> Cool.
[01:19] <BenC> _MMA_: Emailing kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com would be best
[01:21] <_MMA_> No problem Ben. When do the Feisty dailys start?
[01:26] <keescook> crimsun: still around?  I've got libxml2 merged and ready for upload to main too.
[02:40] <keescook> any core-devs around?  I've got libxml2 merged, but I need to get it sponsored.
[02:41] <ajmitch> keescook: where?
[02:41] <keescook> ajmitch: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/feisty-uploads/
[02:41] <ajmitch> ok
[02:41] <keescook> ajmitch: thanks!  :)
[02:42] <ajmitch> np
[02:42] <LaserJock> geeze, keescook gets all the core-dev attention ;-)
[02:42] <ajmitch> you never ask :)
[02:42] <zul> he asked nicely ;)
[02:42] <keescook> :)
[02:42] <LaserJock> bah
[02:42] <LaserJock> what I need is a spec reviewer
[02:42] <LaserJock> which is even more rare
[02:44] <zul> especially at this time
[02:45] <LaserJock> yeah :/
[02:45] <ajmitch> keescook: looks reasonable
[02:45] <keescook> ajmitch: thanks
[02:46] <LaserJock> zul: it's like they expect us to get it approved before we leave the UDS or something ;-)
[02:46] <zul> heh mine is pending approval
[02:47] <LaserJock> this is the second time I've had this happen
[02:47] <LaserJock> I just need to get faster at drafting
[03:28] <fabbione> morning
[03:28] <zul> hey fabbione 
[03:31] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione!
[03:42] <Burgundavia> if anybody wishes to help us write a document explaining Feisty release goals, we are now doing so
[03:42] <Burgundavia> where we == the marketing team
[03:43] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: it may be a lot clearer after the devel team meeting later this week, once you know what specs are approved
[03:43] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: end of week pushes into UWN time
[03:43] <Burgundavia> better to do it now and if needed, cut and edit stuff
[03:44] <fabbione> mdz: regarding that ndiswrapper, i can look at the package, but i have no way to test the kernel side. I don't have any device that can work with it
[03:44] <fabbione> mdz: if that's ok with you then i can look at it
[03:44] <fabbione> mdz: otherwise we should find somebody with such piece of equipment
[03:59] <Burgundavia> mdz: ping
[04:08] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: where are you writing this?
[04:10] <Burgundavia> gobby
[04:11] <Burgundavia> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LookingForwardAtFeisty
[04:12] <BenC> has anyone started a feisty release notes yet?
[04:12] <Burgundavia> BenC: the doc we are producing can evolve into release ntoes
[05:06] <alex-weej> holy fucking fuck!
[05:06] <alex-weej> i just made a tit of myself
[05:07] <alex-weej> just installed u610 on my friend's computer and he had an utterly CRACK disk layout
[05:07] <alex-weej> grub installer failed
[05:07] <alex-weej> yet managed to overwrite the MBR on his primary disk
[05:07] <alex-weej> somehow grub installing managed to cause a "fatal error" and it just gave up creating the menus and all of that jazz
[05:17] <BenC> lowlatency kernel is going in universe...would linux-restricted-modules-lowlatency also go there, or should I put them in restricted with the other lrm modules?
[05:17] <Lathiat> multiverse ?
[05:17] <BenC> is multiverse suitable for that?
[05:17] <elmo> BenC: yes, multiverse
[05:18] <BenC> elmo: thanks
[05:18] <Lathiat> AIUI multiverse is to restricted as universe is to main
[05:20] <Burgundavia> BenC: can you post a quick email to the list about what sort of feedback is useful and what is not?
[05:25] <alex-weej> i'm a bit miffed that we have to create two branches of kernel stuff just to have optional "Low Latency" support
[05:25] <alex-weej> can it not somehow just be a runtime option?
[05:29] <fabbione> alex-weej: nope...
[05:29] <alex-weej> with no amount of hacking?
[05:29] <fabbione> alex-weej: it's just too much hacking that would result in tons of extra code and checking to be done at runtime
[05:30] <alex-weej> fabbione: how do the "other" OSs deal with this?
[05:30] <fabbione> "other" as in what? Windows? MacOS? 
[05:30] <alex-weej> i'm sure Mach users wouldn't settle for anything less - after all it's the kernel in use by most audio professionals
[05:31] <fabbione> because they give you something and you live with that.. 
[05:32] <fabbione> there is no other way around
[05:32] <fabbione> buggy or not...
[05:32] <alex-weej> i'm pretty sure it's better than 16ms
[05:32] <alex-weej> and nobody complains about bad battery life
[05:32] <fabbione> do you have benchmarks and numbers to prove it?
[05:32] <alex-weej> not my own
[05:32] <fabbione> so how can you be so sure?
[05:32] <mpt> s/This package//g
[05:33] <alex-weej> but you can bet your bottom dollar that 32ms is noticable when producing
[05:33] <_ion> Perhaps it uses a dynamic interrupt frequency.
[05:34] <_ion> Btw, the frequency is probably far from the only thing that affects battery life.
[05:34] <fabbione> alex-weej: i seriously doubt you do production on a laptop when flying across the ocean when you need battery life
[05:34] <alex-weej> that's not the point
[05:35] <alex-weej> you're suggesting windows and os x users just deal with it because that's what they're given
[05:35] <alex-weej> i'm suggesting that what they're given is a kernel and drivers that can turn around audio way way faster than 32 ms
 and nobody complains about bad battery life <- i was answering to you
[05:35] <fabbione> alex-weej: it's not completely true .. some cards in windows still require special low-latency drivers
[05:36] <alex-weej> right, but high end ones go as far as to say <1ms latency
[05:36] <mpt> fabbione, Apple actually made a TV ad once about some kid doing production on a laptop when flying across the ocean
[05:37] <LaserJock> mpt: did he make it all the way? :-)
[05:37] <joejaxx> asio ftw
[05:37] <fabbione> mpt: note that Apple always did multimedia stuff... and it's not exactly very very famous for their server solutions....
[05:37] <fabbione> mpt: differnt target, different optimizations
[05:37] <alex-weej> why is it that battery life and low latency can't go hand in hand?
[05:37] <fabbione> mpt: and i can tell you that not even my latest PB can make it all across the ocean.. not even in idle
[05:38] <joejaxx> alex-weej: you are worried about production on the go?
[05:38] <alex-weej> joejaxx: no, i am worried about production sat here with my fat computer
[05:38] <_ion> alex-weej: Nope.
[05:39] <fabbione> alex-weej: i still see no problem.. you are getting a low-latency kernel... and you are making a lot of fuss for nothing
[05:39] <alex-weej> and i am worried that i have to mess around with replacement packages for everything related to the kernel just so i can get something which windows and mac os x do with one kernel
[05:39] <fabbione> nobody knows for sure if windows or macos do change the kernel to achieve this
[05:40] <_ion> alex-weej: For the price of a computer barely adequate for music production, i get an excellent audio workstation with an intuitive interface.
[05:41] <alex-weej> ok
[05:41] <alex-weej> i prefer the flexibility of software but let's not digress :P
[05:41] <joejaxx> fabbione: some card require drivers like lets says asio4all
[05:41] <joejaxx> fabbione: on windows that is which decreases latency
[05:42] <joejaxx> fabbione: but that is with non-high end cards
[05:42] <alex-weej> but this is talking about sound card drivers here
[05:42] <fabbione> joejaxx: not different to what i already said
[05:43] <alex-weej> well
[05:43] <alex-weej> i don't understand our kernel
[05:44] <alex-weej> i just think it's a shame we can't have it easier
[05:44] <alex-weej> "where are all the good audio production apps?" is the first attack any of my peers have against linux
[05:44] <alex-weej> alright, it has firefox, open office, it can play MP3s (!), but it sure as hell can't make a top 40 hit.
[05:47] <_MMA_> alex-weej: Im missing your issue. The -lowlatency kernel will go to primarily serve apps like Ardour.
[05:47] <_ion> Ardour is actually very good, although it could surely benefit from some interface design. Jamin is probably a good mastering tool, but my computer is too slow to test it. :-)
[05:47] <alex-weej> my point is - why can't we get better performance out of our "regular" kernel?
[05:48] <elmo> alex-weej: for the same reason that low latency patches aren't in mainline, because they adversely affect the 99.999% rest of the population who don't care about 32ms
[05:48] <alex-weej> [citation needed] 
[05:48] <_MMA_> _ion: Some of the Ardour devs are gonna help us test the kernel. I will then give that feedback to BenC.
[05:48] <joejaxx> alex-weej: actually it is true
[05:49] <joejaxx> there are reasons why things are not in linus upstream
[05:49] <BenC> alex-weej: The dynticks patches will alleviate all this "normal kernel" vs. "low latency" kernel crap
[05:50] <BenC> until then, you get what we have now
[05:50] <alex-weej> BenC: wassat?
[05:50] <BenC> dynticks is like what windows has, where the kernel adjusts timer interrupts based on userspace needs, dynamically
[05:50] <alex-weej> brilliant!
[05:51] <alex-weej> so why are we even bothering with this low latency kernel stuff, is the need really so immediate that we have to divert resources off working on dynamic ticking?
[05:51] <BenC> who knows, maybe it will get into 2.6.20, and we'll release feisty with just a great -generic kernel
[05:52] <fabbione> alex-weej: because these patches are complex and very difficult to maintain
[05:52] <BenC> alex-weej: resources? There's no developer resources involved in providing this kernel...it's just a buildd/archive resource usage
[05:52] <BenC> and by providing it, we aren't taking away from dynticks
[05:52] <alex-weej> ok
[05:52] <alex-weej> i see
[05:52] <fabbione> alex-weej: you need to think not just of the immediate needs, but also in a long term support for security
[05:52] <fabbione> alex-weej: given that we need to support a kernel for at least 18 months
[05:53] <BenC> exactly, we can't just put dynticks in our kernel and hope for the best
[05:53] <alex-weej> i see
[05:53] <alex-weej> is the dynticks stuff immature?
[05:53] <fabbione> alex-weej: and if one of these patches goes unmaintained it's a disaster
[05:53] <fabbione> alex-weej: it's a disaster for our users... we just remove it
[05:53] <BenC> alex-weej: I believe they are in -mm
[05:53] <alex-weej> ok
[05:54] <fabbione> alex-weej: so having a longer waiting time to get certain things most of the time pays off in the long term
[05:54] <fabbione> alex-weej: try to imagine if all of a sudden we can't provide you security support for your synticks kind of thing
[05:54] <fabbione> alex-weej: you would be as disappointed as not having it at all
[05:54] <alex-weej> well i'm glad the dynticks stuff has actually been done because i was getting a little worried we didn't have a solution at all
[05:55] <alex-weej> fabbione: it's ok i understand
[05:55] <Amaranth> I forget, is -generic the one that will kill my battery or is the new one?
[05:55] <fabbione> plus.. you would get busted security wise, that's worst
[05:55] <BenC> Amaranth: lowlatency may shorten battery life
[05:56] <Amaranth> Alright
[05:56] <Amaranth> I'm not sure who to thank but I gained almost an hour going from dapper to edgy :)
[05:56] <BenC> wasn't that big of a deal when we had it enabled by default during dapper development :)
[05:57] <_MMA_> BenC: It is appreciated. ;)
[05:58] <alex-weej> btw my usplash is still a big orange square with an ubuntu ring inside it
[05:58] <alex-weej> all the new installations i run are the same as the shutdown one - the black screen with white ubuntu text and logo
[05:58] <alex-weej> any ideas what went wrong?
[05:59] <alex-weej> (it's only the bootup one that is still orange)
[06:00] <joejaxx> fabbione: BenC oh yeah i wanted to apologize for not introducing myself at uds
[06:00] <joejaxx> sorray about that
[06:00] <joejaxx> sorry*
[06:00] <fabbione> joejaxx: uh np.. i suck at remembering names anyway
[06:00] <BenC> I'm with fabbione on that one, I suck at names
[06:01] <joejaxx> oh alright
[06:01] <alex-weej> can anyone shed any light on this? i've reported it as a bug because smartmontools is returning "healthy" for whatever i throw at it https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/72774
[06:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72774 in Ubuntu "My system takes ages to boot because of "buffer I/O errors"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[06:02] <_MMA_> I think it was Ben I told looked like Zakk Wylde: http://www.guitarpart.fr/images/avousdejouer/jouez-comme-zakk-wylde.jpg
[06:02] <_MMA_> @UDS that is. :)
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> So guys
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> Who's head do I need to find
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> and how do I hammer through it
[06:22] <bluefoxicy> VINO.  ABSOLUTELY NEEDS.  TO DISPLAY AN ICON IN THE NOTIFICATION AREA.
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> Someone, I'm not quite sure who or how, managed to dodge out my authentication!
[06:23] <bluefoxicy> My auth is not by password; Vino asks me whether to accept or reject connections, and while I wasn't here (or perhaps I was typing too fast and accidentally hit 'a' without seeing the window pop up) someone got around that and connected to my desktop
[06:24] <Lathiat> perhaps you need to fix your physical security ;)
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> for the past like 6 hours someone's been able to view-- but not control-- my desktop.  Eventually I decided to see why my desktop was drawing so freaking slow; I checked netstat (suspecting as much-- I know what VNC does to X performance and people have been trying damn hard) and notice an established connection on 5900
[06:24] <bluefoxicy> Lathiat:  someone in another country.
[06:25] <bluefoxicy> also my screen locks when I'm AFK and you need a password to get around it
[06:25] <Lathiat> bluefoxicy: so, i heard vino takes patches :)
[06:25] <bluefoxicy> It'd be, to say the least, VERY NICE to be able to glance at the notification area and tell A) Vino is listening; B) someone is connected; C) that I can click and disconnect them
[06:25] <jdub> bluefoxicy: changesets accepted!
[06:25] <Lathiat> and/or you can file bugs :)
[06:26] <Lathiat> patches preferred
[06:26] <bluefoxicy> Lathiat, jdub:  That'd be nice if I could code
[06:26] <fabbione> bluefoxicy: and this is NOT the forum where to come and rand this way.
[06:26] <bluefoxicy> bugs I can file; the Gnome guys have a habit of not listening to anything, maybe I'll flag it 'security sensitive' to get their pants all in a knot
[06:26] <fabbione> rant even
[06:27] <bluefoxicy> . /exec cat /dev/random ?
[06:28] <jdub> bluefoxicy: "not listening to anything"? perhaps in this mode of communication, sure. don't expect someone to lend you their car keys after you tell them their car is a hunk of junk.
[06:29] <_ion> bluefoxicy: While you're typing to a window, a suddenly opened new window won't become active.
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  don't say that
[06:30] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  that means either I did something really dumb, or someone got around VNC authentication on Vino
[06:30] <wasabi__> You have three obvious options. (a) Post a nice polite bug report asking for somebody to do the work for you. (b) do the work yourself or (c) pay somebody else to do it
[06:31] <wasabi__> Badgering people isn't going to help.
[06:31] <_ion> bluefoxicy: Of course it's always *possible* the window manager's feature is buggy.
[06:44] <LaserJock> mako: amen!
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> there's a patch
[06:47] <bluefoxicy> to supply a tray icon
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> the bug it's in is from 2004!
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> and it won't be in GNOME 2.18
[06:48] <bluefoxicy> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154467
[07:09] <_ion> Funny. The following extra packages will be installed:  ntp  The following packages will be upgraded:  ntp
[07:14] <fabbione> who did the merge missed something
[07:14] <fabbione> it won't upgrade clean
[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:05] <sfllaw> mvo: Ping?
[08:05] <sfllaw> Re: bug 6553 and bug 67146.
[08:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6553 in nautilus "Menu options are blank when no file selected" [Medium,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6553
[08:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67146 in synaptic "synaptic pinning/locking does not work" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/67146
[08:05] <sfllaw> mvo: I don't think you uploaded the right version into -proposed.
[08:06] <sfllaw> You've sent in ...ubuntu12 when you should have uploaded ubuntu12.1.
[08:06] <sfllaw> Can you fix this?
[08:06] <sfllaw> Also, please make the changelog refer to #67146 instead of #64005.
[08:06] <sfllaw> Thanks.
[08:07] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: care to fix 67280 ?
[08:07] <mvo> sfllaw: it is possible that my upload was not accepted by the ubuntu-archive team, let me check
[08:07] <sfllaw> Oh wait, you're right.
[08:07] <sfllaw> It's still not there yet.
[08:07] <sfllaw> cjwatson: Ping? ^^^
[08:08] <sfllaw> I was looking in the wrong archive.  Forgive me, I'm sleepy.
[08:08] <mvo> sfllaw: I think the issue was that he wanted a patch without autotools garbage in the diff, I can do this now
[08:08] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: hi :-). yea, just saw the comment. will read up on the procedures for NEW ASAP.
[08:08] <sfllaw> Could be.
[08:08] <sfllaw> Please fix up the changelog too.  Then I'll be happy.
[08:09] <sfllaw> Strangely, I'm having trouble reproducing a crash in synaptic.
[08:09] <sfllaw> It asserts on brokenness, but doesn't outright crash.
[08:09] <mvo> sfllaw: I had the same problem, it does only sometimes crash for some reason
[08:10] <sfllaw> valgrind would probably tell us why.
[08:10] <sfllaw> But that kind of fix is probably too deep.
[08:10] <sfllaw> Upload your new package and I'll see if it lets you set fonts in the first place.
[08:11] <mvo> sfllaw: no need for valgrind, the fix is trivial :) I will upload now right away
[08:11] <sfllaw> Thanks.
[08:11] <sfllaw> Ping cjwatson for me about it.
[08:11] <sfllaw> I need to go to bed.
[08:12] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: coolie, thanks.
[08:12] <mvo> sfllaw: I will
[08:12] <mvo> sfllaw: I you have time when you are up again I would like to talk to you about release-upgrades testing (for a new wiki page)
[09:24] <seb128> hey Keybuk
[09:25] <Nafallo> morning Keybuk :-)
[09:26] <Burgundavia> hey seb128, Keybuk
[09:26] <Keybuk> morning
[09:27] <seb128> Keybuk: could you do the sync from bug #73532 please? GNOME packages are FTBFSing until it's synced (or rebuilt)
[09:27] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73532 in libbonoboui "please sync libbobonoui 2.16.0-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73532
[09:27] <seb128> hi Burgundavia
[09:30] <Keybuk> seb128: sure, will be doing archive stuff in a bit
[09:30] <seb128> thank you
[09:58] <rsa|> salut
[10:07] <pitti> Good morning
[10:07] <Burgundavia> hey pitti
[10:10] <mvo> hey pitti!
[10:13] <seb128> hello pitti
[10:15] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[10:21] <sivang> morning
[10:23] <pitti> hey sivang
[10:41] <sivang> jono: ping
[10:49] <fabbione> mvo: ping?
[10:54] <mvo> hello fabbione
[10:56] <sivang> hey mvo !
[10:56] <mvo> hey sivang! how is it going?
[10:58] <fabbione> hey mvo
[10:58] <fabbione> mvo: bug #59983
[10:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59983 in ndiswrapper "ndiswrapper in edgy broken" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59983
[10:59] <fabbione> mvo: the short version is: we need to teach feisty upgrader to pull in ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 if ndiswrapper-utils-1.8 is installed
[10:59] <fabbione> mvo: do you think you can do that before Herd 1 ?
[11:00] <fabbione> mvo: the rest of the bug is related to dapper -> edgy and it doesn't matter to you for now.. it's basically unsolvable
[11:00] <sivang> mvo: fine, thanks, you?
[11:01] <mvo> fabbione: I think we can do this. herd 1 is tomorrow?
[11:02] <fabbione> thu iirc
[11:02] <mvo> sivang: good! thanks. 
[11:02] <mvo> fabbione: I do this now
[11:02] <fabbione> mvo: thanks. i did add you to the bug and added a comment
[11:04] <dholbach> cjwatson, mdz: Is it ok to drop gtranslator from main? (not sure why it ever was there)
[11:06] <cjwatson> dholbach: what is causing it to be in main right now?
[11:06] <cjwatson> (see germinate output, seeds, etc.)
[11:06] <dholbach> cjwatson: supported seed
[11:06] <dholbach> it makes no sense it's in there and the comment is ... hum, not easy to understand :-)
[11:07] <dholbach> seems it's been in main since warty
[11:08] <cjwatson> if having a desktop .po editor in main is not useful, then I don't mind
[11:09] <cjwatson> I know some people like to download files from Rosetta, translate them locally, and re-upload, though, rather than using Rosetta's web interface
[11:09] <cjwatson> perhaps you should check with translators?
[11:10] <dholbach> hm, ok - I was just astounded to see it in main, I never thought it was very stable
[11:10] <minghua_> cjwatson: I doubt those people would use gtranslater anyway.
[11:11] <minghua_> my impression is that translators use vim/emacs or kbabel, some maybe use poedit, but few uses gtranslator
[11:40] <cjwatson> minghua_: ok, if it's not used, sure, we should drop it
[11:41] <cjwatson> 
[11:42] <cjwatson> and Kubuntu is 
[11:42] <dholbach> nice
[11:43] <cjwatson> minghua: that's the one all over the front page of www.ubuntu.or.kr
[11:44] <cjwatson> I'd been trying to work it out myself and googling for likely candidates;  was also one of my guesses
[11:44] <cjwatson> spot who found a transliteration table
[11:44] <minghua> I see
[11:45] <cjwatson> but they seem to prefer u-bun-tu as a syllabification
[11:46] <minghua> shouldn't it be syllabified that way?
[11:47] <cjwatson> yeah, probably
[11:48] <cjwatson> although I think u-bu-ntu is closer, but that doesn't work well in Korean
[11:53] <tepsipakki> cjwatson: hi, tetex-bin is giving me headache sometimes when installing dapper (preseeded a long list of packages to be installed, tetex-bin as one of them). It hangs on preinst
[11:54] <tepsipakki> but would it help debugging if I made a local package which had "set -x" or similar in the preinst?
[11:55] <Keybuk> E: mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb is in main but it's source (iceweasel-l10n) is not.
[11:55] <Keybuk> well, it looks like it's happened upstream
[11:56] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: I guess; I'm not really an expert, sorry
[11:56] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer would be my first try though
[11:56] <tepsipakki> cjwatson: ok I'll try that too
[12:07] <Hobbsee> ouch, sorry
[12:09] <_ion> hobbsee: I don't see anything pasted by you.
[12:10] <StevenK> Neither did I.
[12:10] <Hobbsee> hrm.
[12:10] <Hobbsee> maybe i'm going insane?
[12:11] <_ion> hobbsee: Irssi does have a paste detector that asks you to confirm a long enough paste, but if it's canceled, the lines should not become visible.
[12:12] <Hobbsee> _ion: it was only one line
[12:12] <Hobbsee> oh, i see now.  now i'm getting messages spliced from different *networks* whicih i *know* are wrong.  and at different times
[12:13] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Force a redraw?
[12:13] <StevenK>  /redraw
[12:13] <Hobbsee> right
[12:13] <_ion> ^L
[12:13] <StevenK> Or that.
[12:17] <lehaid> hi, how can i know if a given module in the ubuntu kernel is compiled with a flag or not ?
[12:19] <jayteeuk> lehaid: Will modinfo tell you that?
[12:19] <minghua> lehaid: look at your /boot/config-*, but that question belong to #ubuntu, not here
[02:08] <cjwatson> ok, I think I'm going to accept this Debian change that moves /etc/X11/xkb to /usr/share/X11/xkb
[02:08] <cjwatson> it's going to take some fiddling, though ...
[02:11] <cjwatson> ah, xkbutils
[02:24] <Keybuk> heh
[02:24] <Keybuk> funny when you do a merge, and think "hang on, I patched this"
[02:24] <Keybuk> and then realise you never uploaded the fixed version
[02:25] <underzsof>  WWW.UNDERZSOFT.COM
[02:35] <gnomefreak> was NVU removed from repos for a reason?
[02:35] <gnomefreak> or is it under a different name in feisty?
[02:36] <highvoltage> gnomefreak: it's still there
[02:36] <gnomefreak> highvoltage: not here its not
[02:36] <highvoltage> gnomefreak: just enable universe
[02:36] <gnomefreak> i have it
[02:36] <highvoltage> Filename: pool/universe/s/sl/sl_3.03-14_i386.deb
[02:36] <gnomefreak> W: Unable to locate package nvu
[02:36] <highvoltage> ^^^ that's in edgy
[02:37] <highvoltage> weird.
[02:37] <gnomefreak> im on feisty
[02:37] <Mithrandir> hmm, it's not in feisty, no.
[02:37] <StevenK> Or in Debian
[02:37] <highvoltage> ah well, then toughies :)
[02:37] <gnomefreak> lol
[02:37] <Mithrandir> (From Debian) RoM; abandoned upstream
[02:37] <gnomefreak> i kind of liked it
[02:38] <StevenK> That gives the version in Edgy a nice kind of irony.
[02:38] <StevenK> nvu | 1.0final-2ubuntu2 | edgy/universe | source, amd64, i386
[02:38] <giskard> gnomefreak, because is buggy and unmaintained
[02:38] <highvoltage> it's quite popular in some schools. strange that it's abandoned.
[02:38] <highvoltage> heh
[02:39] <gnomefreak> safe to say we are not getting it back than?
[02:39] <giskard> Mithrandir, i asked for the removal, it's buggy and umaintained by upstream
[02:40] <giskard> gnomefreak, did you know about http://kompozer.net/ ?
[02:40] <_MMA_> gnomefreak: I think its turning into something called "Composer".
[02:40] <gnomefreak> no i did not
[02:40] <_MMA_> Beat me to it.
[02:40] <gnomefreak> ty
[02:40] <giskard> _MMA_, yeah! Kompozer ;)
[02:41] <highvoltage> quanta is cool if you have kde, otherwise vim is king :) (but this is really a discussion for #ubuntu, I'll stay quiet now)
[02:42] <_MMA_> Heres NVU's author's blog: http://glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?Nvu
[02:47] <freeflying_> why don't we merge fontconfig from debian, it's alread 2.4.1 in sid 
[02:47] <gnomefreak> are we looking at packaging it for feisty/feisty+1
[03:11] <cjwatson> rodarvus: around? I'd like to run this xkeyboard-config change past you, if you care
[03:29] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: could you eyeball http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/xkeyboard-config.diff? That's just the new diff versus Debian; you can have the diff versus previous Ubuntu as well, but it's big and fat and in some ways less interesting 'cos there's a new upstream and a repackaging in there
[03:29] <heno> Keybuk, cjwatson: either of you want to look at the braille-support spec again?
[03:29] <cjwatson> it's the preinst code I mostly care about
[03:30] <cjwatson> heno: oh, yeah, it's sitting open in my browser already waiting for me to get round to it
[03:30] <heno> heh, ok :)
[03:32] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: we can't get rid of the two symlinks from xkbutils?
[03:32] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: we can, but the transition would be a hairy mess because the server uses those
[03:32] <cjwatson> I'm not too horribly uncomfortable with just having a small symlink farm in /etc/X11/xkb/
[03:33] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:33] <cjwatson> (and xkb-data would have to have Conflicts, etc., to make sure its preinst worked)
[03:34] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok, looks good to me
[03:34] <cjwatson> right, thanks. It's possible I lost some of the patches from dapper era; checking
[03:38] <cjwatson> they seem to be mostly backports or stuff that's been submitted so far
[03:48] <giskard> ogra, ping :)
[03:49] <ogra> giskard, pong
[03:49] <cjwatson> right, there goes xkeyboard-config. let me know if your keyboard explodes or something
[03:49] <giskard> ogra what is useful for patches-old/ in the debian/ of gnome-power-manager?
[03:50] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: can you see a reason why wodim seems not to have been synced from Debian?
[03:51] <ogra> giskard, we didnt use any of these patches since dapper, i didnt want to throw them away in case we'd need to quickly enable one of them again ... you can remove the dir if you like
[03:51] <giskard> ogra, who wrote these patches?
[03:52] <ogra> most of them daniel silverstone iirc
[03:52] <ogra> i'd need to look them up ...
[03:52] <Mithrandir> hmm, maybe it ftbfs-ed
[03:52] <ogra> they should all appear in the changelog somewhere
[03:53] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: because it doesn't exist in Debian?
[03:53] <ogra> Mithrandir, it needs cmake in main
[03:53] <cjwatson> Keybuk: does, it's a binary
[03:53] <ogra> its already synced (i looked at it yesterday)
[03:53] <cjwatson> from cdrkit
[03:53] <ogra> its in cdrkit
[03:53] <Keybuk> ahh
[03:53] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: when specifying syncs, please mention if it's a binary <g>
[03:53] <ogra> we'll need a cdrecord->wodim transition
[03:53] <ogra> and cmake in main
[03:54] <cjwatson> ogra: Debian already has a perfectly good transition
[03:54] <Keybuk> cdrkit is stuck in dep-wait
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I thought it was the name of the source package, which was why I was unable to track it down myself.
[03:54] <ogra> ah, cool
[03:54] <cjwatson> Keybuk: could you give back lshw for me? it should build now
[03:54] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: as a penance, I'll do three NEWs now.
[03:54] <cjwatson> (promoted tipa for it)
[03:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: done
[03:55] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: enjoy, it's beryl :P
[03:55] <giskard> :)
[03:56] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I wasn't thinking of _that_ bit. :-P
[03:56] <Keybuk> that's all that was in NEW last time I looked
[03:56] <mjg59> If it's still got mesa, can you reject it and ask them to build-depend on mesa-swx11-source?
[03:56] <mjg59> (Assuming that that's an adequate amount of mesa, and I'd be impressed if it isn't)
[03:56] <giskard> imbrandon, fabo and me would be happy to see beryl accepted ;)
[03:56] <mjg59> Keybuk: Have you tested that patch yet?
[03:56] <cjwatson> Keybuk: thanks
[03:56] <mjg59> Or should I find someone else to?
[03:57] <cjwatson> giskard: package it properly, then ;-)
[03:57] <Keybuk> mjg59: not yet
[03:57] <giskard> mjg59, build beryl against mesa-swx11-source?
[03:57] <Keybuk> mjg59: compiz doesn't work on my desktop
[03:57] <mjg59> Keybuk: Because you're using insufficiently new nvidia drivers?
[03:58] <mjg59> giskard: If it includes its own copy of mesa, then yes
[03:58] <mjg59> Keybuk: Or because of other insanity?
[03:58] <gnomefreak> thought someone already built beryl for universe
[03:58] <mjg59> tyrosine% apt-cache show beryl
[03:58] <mjg59> W: Unable to locate package beryl
[03:58] <gnomefreak> atleast he was supposed to
[03:59] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: when ftpmasters are telling you that it's in NEW, perhaps you can believe them
[03:59] <gnomefreak> it hasnt been uploaded yet 
[03:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: yes
[03:59] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ok, good to know
[03:59] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: it has. it's in NEW. listen to us
[03:59] <gnomefreak> oh
[04:00] <cjwatson>   136349 | S- | beryl-settings       | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1       | two days
[04:00] <cjwatson>          | * beryl-settings/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11
[04:00] <cjwatson>   136348 | S- | beryl-plugins        | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1       | two days
[04:00] <cjwatson>          | * beryl-plugins/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11
[04:00] <cjwatson>   136347 | S- | beryl-manager        | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1       | two days
[04:00] <Mithrandir> dholbach: why do you include the LGPL as well as the GPL in gnome-specimen's copyright file?
[04:00] <cjwatson>          | * beryl-manager/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11
[04:00] <cjwatson>   136346 | S- | beryl-core           | 0.1.2-0ubuntu1       | two days
[04:00] <cjwatson>          | * beryl-core/0.1.2-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x11
[04:00] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I usually make maintainers do that
[04:00] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: when it's GPL-only?
[04:00] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: oh, not in that circumstance, no :P  when it contains GPL and LGPL code
[04:00] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry, my fault.
[04:01] <Mithrandir> it does include LGPL code
[04:01] <mjg59> Keybuk: Mm? If something's a mixture of GPL and BSD, do you want the BSD headers in copyright as well?
[04:01] <dholbach> Mithrandir: because the maintainer has it in one header, I asked him to fix it and he did it in bzr
[04:01] <dholbach> Mithrandir: next release will be gpl only
[04:02] <cjwatson> freeflying_: the fontconfig merge is on Ian's to-do list according to merges.ubuntu.com
[04:02] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I'll reject the current one, it fails to ship a copy of the LGPL anywhere in the orig.tar.gz.
[04:02] <freeflying_> cjwatson: thanks
[04:03] <Keybuk> mjg59: I tend to overlook that, as there's nothing contradictory there
[04:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: it's in the header
[04:03] <dholbach> but oh well...
[04:03] <Keybuk> the GPL/LGPL thing requires a "choice to distribute under the GPL instead"
[04:03] <Keybuk> which I prefer the users to make, not us
[04:03] <mjg59> Keybuk: Well, the total work can only be under the GPL
[04:04] <mjg59> If they're looking at reusing individual pieces of source, they need to look at the file-level copyrights anyway
[04:04] <giskard> mjg59, i know, upstream  will fix this in the next release. 
[04:04] <Keybuk> mjg59: sure, but when split up again, they should be under the LGPL and GPL separately
[04:05] <Keybuk> and in theory, the LGPL says once you choose to make it GPL, you can't set it back again (because the GPL doesn't allow that)
[04:05] <Mithrandir> dholbach: in what header?  One header says "this file under the LGPL, you should have received a copy with this software".  And no copy in the orig.tar.gz
[04:06] <dholbach> nm, I'll package bzr
[04:08] <mjg59> giskard: It's unlikely to get through new until that's resolved. We really don't want to carry around multiple copies of the same source when it can be avoided
[04:13] <giskard> mjg59, ok.
[04:16] <bddebian> Heya
[04:23] <mvo> fabbione: still here? should the dist-upgrade install ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 if 1.1 is installed too? or only if 1.8 is installed?
[04:28] <rodarvus> cjwatson, sorry for the delay answering. Mithrandir is the xkb guy among us (some time ago we "divided" efforts into libs+kbd for him, server and drivers for me)
[04:28] <Keybuk> rodarvus: talking of which, xfree86-driver-synaptics needs special attention
[04:28] <rodarvus> I noticed Mithrandir already reviewed your debdiff, but apart it seem ok for me too
[04:30] <rodarvus> Keybuk, *nods*, indeed
[04:31] <rodarvus> mjg59 "owns" this package :)
[04:31] <rodarvus> (there are patches from him in there I don't dare touching)
[04:31] <Keybuk> mjg59 is "busy" with his PhD, you end up nominally owning it because it starts with "X" :)
[04:31] <rodarvus> heh, right
[04:33] <Keybuk> lp_archive@drescher:~/syncs$ M -S xfree86-driver-synaptics
[04:33] <Keybuk> xfree86-driver-synaptics |   0.14.4-1 | feisty/universe | source, amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[04:33] <Keybuk> lp_archive@drescher:~/syncs$ M -S xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[04:33] <Keybuk> xserver-xorg-input-synaptics | 0.14.6-0ubuntu3 |        feisty | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[04:33] <Keybuk> -- 
[04:33] <Keybuk> we have two different source packages, producing two different binaries
[04:33] <mjg59> We have this discussion every single release
[04:33] <Keybuk> Debian has one source package (xfree86-driver-synaptics) which produces both binaries
[04:33] <Keybuk> mjg59: the discussion clearly hasn't been resolved ?
[04:34] <mjg59> Every time you ask, I say "Drop the one in universe"
[04:34] <Keybuk> right
[04:34] <Keybuk> but that's wrong
[04:34] <Keybuk> because there's still one in Debian trying to sync in to Ubuntu
[04:34] <Keybuk> so it doesn't actually solve the problem
[04:34] <mjg59> Then stop syncing it
[04:34] <Keybuk> why?
[04:34] <Keybuk> we inherit X from Debian now
[04:34] <Keybuk> why aren't we inheriting this?
[04:34] <mjg59> Because Debian appears to show little interest in fixing the problems with it working out of hte box
[04:35] <Keybuk> can't we apply our xserver-xorg-input-synaptics patch to the Debian xfree86-driver-synaptics package?
[04:35] <mjg59> Seemingly not, since our driver is newer than the Debian one
[04:35] <Keybuk> it isn't 
[04:35] <Keybuk> it's the same upstream version
[04:35] <Keybuk> feisty has 0.14.6-0ubuntu3
[04:35] <Keybuk> unstable has 0.14.6-1
[04:35] <mjg59> Oh, right
[04:36] <mjg59> But, uh. Why xfree86-driver-synaptics?
[04:36] <Keybuk> *shrug* who cares
[04:37] <Keybuk> they probably figured not to rename the source
[04:38] <mjg59> Yeah. Shifting over to that ought to be reasonable, then.
[04:39] <Keybuk> can you do that merge?
[04:39] <mjg59> Given that it's the same upstream, the merge should be trivial
[04:39] <mjg59> I can't really do it right now, though
[04:42] <mjg59> The ubuntu diff applies to the Debian package with minor rejects, which can be ignored
[04:43] <mjg59> With the exception that it needs to be told to use -fno-stack-lala again
[04:46] <dholbach> Mithrandir: uploaded a fixed version
[04:50] <mdz> dholbach: yes (gtranslator)
[04:50] <dholbach> mdz: gracias
[04:51] <mdz> fabbione: the main issue is that the wrong version of ndiswrapper is provided by default; it's purely a packaging problem
[04:51] <mdz> Burgundavia: pong
[05:05] <Keybuk> woop!  the only remaining merge with my name against it is sysvinit
[05:05] <Keybuk> I guess I can't put that one off any longer
[05:07] <Tonio__> mdz: hi ! little question concerning a packaging issue
[05:07] <Keybuk> pitti: it's amazing the amount of motivation you can have when you're avoiding doing something else :p
[05:07] <pitti> hehe
[05:07] <pitti> Keybuk: likewise here: instead of testing the dovecot security update manually I wrote a whole automatic test suite
[05:08] <Tonio__> mdz: in the case there is no new upstream release between edgy and feisty yet, but a little packaging issue has been corrected, is that backport relevent or simply an sru
[05:08] <Tonio__> ?
[05:18] <mvo> fabbione: could you have a look at #21117 ? I haven't seen it in a while (since pre-dapper) but it has come back for edgy->feisty upgrades
[05:21] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I have four to go, not counting updated merges
[05:21] <cjwatson> Tonio__: that depends on the impact of the packaging problem
[05:21] <cjwatson> Tonio__: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[05:22] <Keybuk> cjwatson: done pam yet? :)
[05:22] <cjwatson> Keybuk: nope
[05:22] <cjwatson> doing d-i instead, which is more urgent and equally procrastination-worthy
[05:22] <Keybuk> heh
[05:28] <Tonio__> damned connection...
[05:30] <Keybuk> [Updating]  amiwm (0 [Ubuntu]  < 0.20.48-7.1 [Debian] )
[05:30] <Keybuk>  * Trying to add amiwm...
[05:30] <Keybuk>   - <amiwm_0.20.48-7.1.dsc: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/>
[05:30] <Keybuk>   - <amiwm_0.20.48-7.1.diff.gz: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/>
[05:30] <Keybuk>   - <amiwm_0.20.48.orig.tar.gz: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/>
[05:30] <Keybuk> forget beryl
[05:30] <Keybuk> there's something that's been sorely missing from Ubuntu
[05:32] <thom> hah
[05:34] <Keybuk> what a strange package
[05:34] <Keybuk> it puts firmware in /usr/lib/firmware ...
[05:34] <Keybuk> (bluez-firmware)
[05:36] <Keybuk> apart from a planet in BSG, that is
[05:36] <ogra> BSG ?
[05:36] <ogra> Keybuk, thanks for claning up the mess in sysklogd, i'm really sorry for that ...
[05:38] <thom> ogra: battlestar galactica
[05:38] <pitti> doko: do you plan to merge gettext soon? 0.15 causes some packages to FTBFS due to xgettext segfaulting; I can do the merge if you want
[05:39] <ogra> ah
[05:39] <ogra> thom, thanks :)
[05:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping re: Herd 1
[05:55] <Keybuk> we should so name it Hurd just to see if anyone's paying attention
[05:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: hiya
[05:56] <kylem> Keybuk, dude, that's not funny. :)
[05:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's waiting for installer stuff before I freeze the archive; I've started trying to make *-desktop installable.
[05:57] <Keybuk> kylem: oh, sorry; when they hired you as a Kernel Developer, didn't they tell you *which* Kernel?
[05:57] <kylem> *really* not funny.
[05:57] <Mithrandir> (no point in freezing until we have at least most of the bits present and accounted for)
[05:57] <kylem> ;-)
[05:58] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[06:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: I have people coming over now, so I have to go, if you have more questions or stuff you want to discuss, I'll be around in about four hours.
[06:07] <giskard> mjg59, if I upoad a new version of beryl-core now (= in a few minutes) you will accept it?
[06:08] <mjg59> giskard: I'm not an archive admin, I'm afraid
[06:08] <giskard> no problem
[06:13] <TreMobyl> ok, something's seriously hosed.  It's apparnetly on the initram.
[06:14] <Keybuk> TreMobyl: see /topic
[06:15] <jdong> what is the arbitrary size that tmpfs imposes on itself if I mount with no -o size argument?
[06:15] <jdong> right now, it seems to be 505M on my system with 1G ram and 2G swap
[06:15] <Keybuk> jdong: sizeof(swap)
[06:16] <jdong> Keybuk: really?
[06:16] <jdong> lrm                   505M   17M  489M   4%
[06:16] <jdong> Mem:          1009        982         27 
[06:16] <jdong> Swap:         1388          0       1388
[06:16] <jdong> the numbers don't seem to match up at all
[06:16] <jdong> I'm puzzled
[06:16] <Keybuk> actually, it might be 50% of swap
[06:16] <jdong> Keybuk: I can force it larger with -o size, right?
[06:17] <Keybuk> ah, no
[06:17] <Keybuk> "Half of the available RAM"
[06:17] <jdong> oh, ok
[06:17] <jdong> ooh, and I can -o remount,size=800M and it works :)
[06:17] <Keybuk> yeah
[06:17] <Keybuk> you need 800MB for lrm?
[06:17] <jdong> no
[06:17] <jdong> :)
[06:17] <jdong> I'm doing pbuilder in tmpfs
[06:17] <jdong> just for fun :)
[06:18] <jdong> it is a LOT faster :)
[06:18] <Adri2000> does anyone know about the date for the next CC? or Mark knows?
[06:18] <jdong> only thing is I wish pbuilder could bind-mount its APT cache
[06:20] <jdong> Keybuk: so does disk cache, other apps, or tmpfs take priority if tmpfs starts growing > free RAM?
[06:21] <Keybuk> jdong: define priority?
[06:21] <Keybuk> priority for what?
[06:21] <jdong> Keybuk: i.e. what gets shoved into swap the most?
[06:22] <Keybuk> whatever's being used the least
[06:22] <jdong> I see
[06:22] <TreMobyl> bugfiling time, it seems
[06:22] <mjg59> jdong: The kernel keeps track of when each page was last used
[06:22] <mjg59> jdong: When stuff needs to be pushed to swap, it pushes the least recently used page
[06:23] <TreMobyl> hey mjg
[06:23] <jdong> oh, so tmpfs just requests pages from the VM?
[06:23] <mjg59> Yes
[06:23] <jdong> that's brilliant :)
[06:24] <mjg59> ramfs just uses ram, so is generally not preferable
[06:24] <Keybuk> the cute thing is that the pages are shared with the page cache
[06:24] <Keybuk> so you don't end up putting tmpfs things in the page cache separately
[06:24] <jdong> cool
[06:25] <jdong> aww, swap can't be sparse? :D
[06:25] <jdong> how disappointing
[06:43] <Keybuk> http://merges.ubuntu.com/main-trend.png
[06:44] <Keybuk> ^ sweet, we're about half way through the merges
[06:44] <Keybuk> (the yellow bit eating into the red)
[06:45] <mako> Laser_away: glad you appreciated it
[06:45] <Keybuk> dholbach: MOTU don't appear to be making any headway ?
[06:52] <wasabi_> Hmm. ubuntu-minimal should not depend on klogd
[06:52] <wasabi_> It should depend on kernel-log-daemon or some such
[06:52] <Keybuk> wasabi_: generally speaking we depend on real packages, as it defines the Ubuntu supported system
[06:53] <wasabi_> Hmm. Still. Realistically, installing syslog-ng should not cause ubuntu-minimal to be removed, imo.
[06:53] <wasabi_> As ubuntu-minimal is used to track new packages too
[06:53] <Keybuk> yes, long running bug/bitch/wishlist
[06:53] <wasabi_> why is kernel-log-daemon | klogd bad?
[06:54] <wasabi_> Err, reversed.
[06:54] <Keybuk> it's not bad, so much as not actually possible :p
[07:02] <seb128> Keybuk: did you have a chance to look at bug #73532?
[07:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73532 in libbonoboui "please sync libbobonoui 2.16.0-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73532
[07:02] <seb128> Keybuk: GNOME packages are FTBFSing for the moment 
[07:09] <Keybuk> no, I didn't
[07:10] <Keybuk> you can't spell bonobo either, eh?
[07:11] <Keybuk> done
[07:13] <LaserJock> Keybuk: do you have a little time for a quick spec review?
[07:14] <Keybuk> LaserJock: no, sorry
[07:14] <LaserJock> k, np
[07:18] <seb128> Keybuk: thank you ;)
[07:31] <AcidBurn> keep having a problem with the sky2 driver for ethernet
[07:32] <AcidBurn> dmesg output;
[07:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: a reply to my email would be sufficient, thanks
[07:32] <AcidBurn> [17217507.128000]  APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)
[07:32] <AcidBurn> [17217603.980000]  APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)
[07:32] <AcidBurn> [17217643.748000]  sky2 eth1: Link is down.
[07:32] <AcidBurn> [17217649.284000]  sky2 eth1: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex, flow control none
[07:32] <AcidBurn> [17218331.376000]  APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)
[07:32] <AcidBurn> [17218470.436000]  APIC error on CPU0: 40(40)
[07:34] <AcidBurn> it would appear, that the link would go down, lose it connection to the linksys router.. odd
[07:35] <AcidBurn> having this trouble with kubuntu and xubuntu
[07:42] <pitti> slomo: ping
[07:43] <slomo> pitti: pong
[07:43] <pitti> slomo: hi
[07:44] <slomo> hi pitti :)
[07:44] <pitti> slomo: apport was recently changed to pick up unhandled exceptions for Python programs; I'd like to do the same for crashing Mono programs
[07:44] <pitti> slomo: (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApportImprovements spec)
[07:44] <pitti> slomo: do you have a broad idea how this can be achieved?
[07:45] <pitti> slomo: i. e. changing Mono's default exception handler to build a crash report?
[07:45] <slomo> well, shouldn't be too hard :) but i don't know the code
[07:47] <pitti> slomo: we just need to find a way to make mono interact sanely with the python library (probably through an executable wrapper)
[07:47] <pitti> slomo: can we discuss this this evening or tomorrow? (I need to finish the spec by Thursday)
[07:50] <slomo> maybe later this evening or tomorrow in the morning if this is fine with you :)
[07:52] <pitti> slomo: absolutely, I have my OpenWeek talk in 8 minutes anyway
[07:53] <slomo> pitti: ok :) i'll ping you when i have some minutes
[08:17] <cr3> what's the name of that graphic controller and monitor autodetection in casper?
[08:18] <Kano> hi
[08:20] <ogra> cr3, xserver-xorg's postinst script
[08:20] <cr3> ogra: ah, so the live cd is exactly the same as dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg. thanks
[08:20] <Kano> i am just trying to compile a package that needs linux/compiler.h on ubuntu. on debian that header is provided by the linux-kernel-headers package, that is missing
[08:21] <ogra> cr3, i think its dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical xserver-xorg (for no questions)
[08:21] <cr3> ogra: you read my mind, I was wondering how it didn't ask for questions. re-thanks :)
[08:22] <ogra> either that or DEBIAN_FRONTEND is set to noninteractive, i dont know the exact details of casper 
[08:49] <cr3> why was the LAMP option removed from the installation options of the 6.10 server install cd?
[08:51] <cr3> there doesn't even seem to be a lamp meta package :(
[08:53] <AcidBurn> anyone for the sky2 bug problem ?
[08:55] <Burgwork> AcidBurn: sky2 bug?
[08:55] <AcidBurn> as you can see above from my post
[08:55] <AcidBurn> it would appear the driver, is not behaving correctly
[09:20] <BenC> Anyone know a good perl expression to take a single line of text and add linefeeds as word boundaries at or less than 76 characters?
[09:20] <BenC> it's ok if it expects to only add one newline
[09:20] <BenC> nm, I think I got it
[09:22] <_ion> libtext-autoformat-perl - Perl module for automatic text wrapping and reformating    libtext-reform-perl - Perl module for manual text wrapping and reformating
[09:22] <_ion> Text::AutoFormat is quite intelligent, e.g. indentation and mail quoting ("> " prefix) are respected.
[09:23] <BenC> _ion: you rock, thanks
[09:26] <_ion> http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Text-Autoformat-1.13/lib/Text/Autoformat.pm
[09:26] <_ion> There's the documentation.
[09:29] <BenC> _ion: Text::Wrap did the trick too, and it's stock perl
[09:29] <_ion> Oh, i forgot about that.
[09:31] <_ion> I haven't touched perl much for a long time. First i found python and realized how much perl sucks, then i found ruby and realized how much python sucks. ;-)
[09:35] <elmo> ugh
[09:35] <elmo> BenC: netxtreme II (bcm5708) not supported in edgy?
[09:37] <kylem> should be supported by bnx2.ko
[09:38] <BenC> elmo: yeah, bnx2 has the PCI id for it in edgy
[09:38] <elmo> I don't have that module on the server CD?
[09:38] <BenC> elmo: Must be missing from the udev's :/
[09:38] <pirast_> doko, when are you going to fix bug #62432?
[09:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62432 in openoffice.org "Crash when copying text from OpenOffice to other applications" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62432
[09:38] <BenC> udeb's even
[09:39] <elmo> BenC: doh.  want a bug?
[09:39] <BenC> elmo: don't ask if I want a bug :)
[09:39] <BenC> elmo: But sure, file one and we'll get it into a -security update
[09:40] <elmo> completely kernel unrelated, but could we make the server default to creating partitions noatime?
[09:42] <kylem> eh, why?
[09:43] <elmo> because we use deadline on servers -> writes hurt, atime -> insane amounts of writes, and I've never seen anyone care about atime on a server, but maybe that's just me
[09:44] <keescook> the only reason I've seen to care about atime is for people using a local partition for mbox reading.  that's pretty rare these days.
[09:45] <pitti> keescook: and apport for telling apart seen from unseen reports; maybe I should change that
[09:45] <keescook> pitti: ah! forgot about that.  :)
[09:48] <elmo> LP 73647
[10:03] <Adri2000> elmo: do you know if the next CC is planned yet?
[10:29] <Gadi> can someone tell me if udevd gets called once or twice in initramfs?  I am trying to track down a problem, and when I get a shell in initramfs I see 2 calls to udevd
[10:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: I can't see any mails from you in my inbox at least?
[10:37] <mdz> Mithrandir: /msg'd
[10:53] <jdong> when's next archive day?
[11:01] <Burgwork> sfllaw: you got me a url for this fridge event?
[11:02] <sfllaw> Burgwork: Nope.  I did send an e-mail to fridge-devel.
[11:03] <mdke> Burgwork: just copy what was done for previous hug days
[11:08] <Burgwork> sfllaw: done
[11:08] <Burgwork> hey jono
[11:09] <sfllaw> Burgwork: I understand you give away stickers?
[11:09] <Burgwork> I do
[11:09] <jono> hey
[11:09] <sfllaw> Burgwork: How can I convince you to send me some?
[11:09] <Burgwork> sfllaw: bribes
[11:09] <sfllaw> Burgwork: I'd like to be able to give them away.
[11:10] <sfllaw> Burgwork: What kind of bribes?
[11:10] <Burgwork> new X60
[11:11] <sfllaw> Burgwork: Ouch.
[11:11] <Burgwork> stop complaining and start buying!
[11:11] <Burgwork> pm me your addy and I will get you some
[11:11] <mc44> Burgwork: you're famous! Name checked on TWiT :)
[11:11] <Burgwork> twit?
[11:12] <mc44> Burgwork: This Week in Tech, podcast
[11:12] <Burgwork> oh joy
[11:12] <sfllaw> Burgwork: Congrats!
[11:16] <chisefu> Burgwork peddles stickers on the interweb for net pr0ps
[11:31] <Lin> hi all
[11:33] <Lin> is it possible install ubuntu edgy using fai.. if so.. the steps are same as debian? if not.. where can I read about?
[11:36] <Burgwork> Lin: yes
[11:36] <Lin> Burgwork: same steps as debian..
[11:37] <Burgwork> not entirely certain
[11:38] <keescook> siretart: I updated SbuildLVMHowto to point to my mk-schroot-lv.sh script that does all the magic in one go.  Very handy.  :)
[11:38] <Lin> Burgwork: the edgy installer is different as the previous.. I dont think that its debian installer.
[11:42] <neuralis> rodarvus: ping
[11:42] <rodarvus> neuralis, pong
[11:42] <Burgwork> Lin: d-i is on the alternate cd
[11:43] <Lin> Burgwork: I thought that it was abandoned.
[11:43] <neuralis> dilinger: rodarvus is around, let's get him in a channel somewhere
[11:43] <Lin> Burgwork: good to know