[12:14] Burgwork: and that conversation doesn't need to involve me. :) [12:14] cjwatson: nope, but you did post that comment on the wiki page [12:16] Burgwork: because I volunteered to review that specification. [12:16] you poor sucker ;) [12:16] but I'm not the approver - it's just a drive-by [12:16] we call it "responsibility" around here === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:17] Burgwork: (also, context would have helped; I suggest you put your comment on the wiki page instead anyway) [12:17] ok, no worries [12:19] hmm, that reminds me. Is there anybody on ubuntu-reviewers team available for a spec review? === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-87-103.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tormod [n=tormod@80-219-112-71.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === sshrdp [n=soroosh@217.218.35.3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === proppy [n=proppy@free.mekensleep.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Killed] === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Tonio__ [n=tonio@85.207.103-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gasbag [n=gasbag@68-189-241-88.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ph8 [i=henri@85.234.155.91] has joined #ubuntu-devel === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:54] <_MMA_> BenC: ping === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seeker` [n=Kryis@84-12-167-90.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === theCore [n=alex@modemcable229.181-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `ph8 [i=henri@rigel.orion-hosting.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === FliesLikeABrick [n=Ryan@about/rpi/rawdor] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seeker` [n=Kryis@84-12-167-90.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.229.7] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:13] _MMA_: pong [01:14] or not [01:14] <_MMA_> Hi sir [01:14] <_MMA_> The Ubuntu Studio team thanks you. :) [01:14] <_MMA_> Im the lead on it. [01:14] <_MMA_> I was gonna reply to the ML but I just signed up. [01:16] <_MMA_> We will be testing the -lowlatency kernel along with some Ardour deves when the feisty dailys start to build. [01:16] <_MMA_> *devs [01:17] <_MMA_> Still around BenC? [01:17] MMA: yeah, thanks [01:17] <_MMA_> Ahh... Ok. [01:18] <_MMA_> :) [01:18] _MMA_: let me know if it does the trick, or if any other changes are needed to help support audio work [01:18] <_MMA_> How would you like feedback? [01:18] _MMA_: You should see linux-image-lowlatency by the end of the week === j_ack [n=rudi@p508D9E58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:19] <_MMA_> Cool. [01:19] _MMA_: Emailing kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com would be best === _MMA_ copies address. [01:21] <_MMA_> No problem Ben. When do the Feisty dailys start? [01:26] crimsun: still around? I've got libxml2 merged and ready for upload to main too. === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freet15 [n=freet15@221.216.191.238] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aleka [n=habesha@hrrsnbrg-bluewave1-69-161-7-92.chvlva.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-123-177.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aleka [n=habesha@hrrsnbrg-bluewave1-69-161-7-92.chvlva.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === jack_wyt [n=jack@211.154.174.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rotarychainsaw_ [n=bj@ool-18bbaf15.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === orkid__ [n=mike@bas1-barrie18-1242381228.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508DC02D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:40] any core-devs around? I've got libxml2 merged, but I need to get it sponsored. [02:41] keescook: where? [02:41] ajmitch: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kees/feisty-uploads/ [02:41] ok [02:41] ajmitch: thanks! :) [02:42] np [02:42] geeze, keescook gets all the core-dev attention ;-) [02:42] you never ask :) [02:42] he asked nicely ;) [02:42] :) [02:42] bah [02:42] what I need is a spec reviewer [02:42] which is even more rare [02:44] especially at this time [02:45] yeah :/ [02:45] keescook: looks reasonable [02:45] ajmitch: thanks [02:46] zul: it's like they expect us to get it approved before we leave the UDS or something ;-) [02:46] heh mine is pending approval [02:47] this is the second time I've had this happen [02:47] I just need to get faster at drafting === kaptengu [n=kaptengu@c213-100-60-132.swipnet.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi__ [n=wasabi@cpe-76-184-95-8.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robertj [n=robertj@68-117-216-83.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:28] morning [03:28] hey fabbione === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.13.237.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:31] hey fabbione! === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:42] if anybody wishes to help us write a document explaining Feisty release goals, we are now doing so === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F46E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:42] where we == the marketing team [03:43] Burgundavia: it may be a lot clearer after the devel team meeting later this week, once you know what specs are approved [03:43] ajmitch: end of week pushes into UWN time [03:43] better to do it now and if needed, cut and edit stuff [03:44] mdz: regarding that ndiswrapper, i can look at the package, but i have no way to test the kernel side. I don't have any device that can work with it [03:44] mdz: if that's ok with you then i can look at it [03:44] mdz: otherwise we should find somebody with such piece of equipment === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheK [n=KaiL@p548F7F47.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:59] mdz: ping === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F7F77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:08] Burgundavia: where are you writing this? [04:10] gobby [04:11] see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LookingForwardAtFeisty [04:12] has anyone started a feisty release notes yet? [04:12] BenC: the doc we are producing can evolve into release ntoes === sevrin [n=sevrin@202.75.186.154] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bronson [n=bronson@adsl-75-36-144-162.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-132-184.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === smh [n=smh@CPE-67-48-248-195.new.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bronson_ [n=bronson@adsl-75-36-144-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:06] holy fucking fuck! [05:06] i just made a tit of myself [05:07] just installed u610 on my friend's computer and he had an utterly CRACK disk layout [05:07] grub installer failed [05:07] yet managed to overwrite the MBR on his primary disk === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:07] somehow grub installing managed to cause a "fatal error" and it just gave up creating the menus and all of that jazz === Huahua [n=hua_@122.0.230.197] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:17] lowlatency kernel is going in universe...would linux-restricted-modules-lowlatency also go there, or should I put them in restricted with the other lrm modules? [05:17] multiverse ? [05:17] is multiverse suitable for that? === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DB296.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === BenC has never multiversed [05:17] BenC: yes, multiverse [05:18] elmo: thanks [05:18] AIUI multiverse is to restricted as universe is to main [05:20] BenC: can you post a quick email to the list about what sort of feedback is useful and what is not? [05:25] i'm a bit miffed that we have to create two branches of kernel stuff just to have optional "Low Latency" support [05:25] can it not somehow just be a runtime option? [05:29] alex-weej: nope... [05:29] with no amount of hacking? [05:29] alex-weej: it's just too much hacking that would result in tons of extra code and checking to be done at runtime === bronson_ [n=bronson@adsl-75-36-144-172.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:30] fabbione: how do the "other" OSs deal with this? [05:30] "other" as in what? Windows? MacOS? [05:30] i'm sure Mach users wouldn't settle for anything less - after all it's the kernel in use by most audio professionals === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:31] because they give you something and you live with that.. [05:32] there is no other way around [05:32] buggy or not... [05:32] i'm pretty sure it's better than 16ms [05:32] and nobody complains about bad battery life [05:32] do you have benchmarks and numbers to prove it? [05:32] not my own [05:32] so how can you be so sure? [05:32] s/This package//g [05:33] but you can bet your bottom dollar that 32ms is noticable when producing [05:33] <_ion> Perhaps it uses a dynamic interrupt frequency. [05:34] <_ion> Btw, the frequency is probably far from the only thing that affects battery life. [05:34] alex-weej: i seriously doubt you do production on a laptop when flying across the ocean when you need battery life [05:34] that's not the point [05:35] you're suggesting windows and os x users just deal with it because that's what they're given [05:35] i'm suggesting that what they're given is a kernel and drivers that can turn around audio way way faster than 32 ms [05:35]

and nobody complains about bad battery life <- i was answering to you [05:35] alex-weej: it's not completely true .. some cards in windows still require special low-latency drivers [05:36] right, but high end ones go as far as to say <1ms latency [05:36] fabbione, Apple actually made a TV ad once about some kid doing production on a laptop when flying across the ocean === pradeep [n=pradeep@59.92.44.91] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:37] mpt: did he make it all the way? :-) [05:37] asio ftw [05:37] mpt: note that Apple always did multimedia stuff... and it's not exactly very very famous for their server solutions.... [05:37] mpt: differnt target, different optimizations [05:37] why is it that battery life and low latency can't go hand in hand? === _ion has moved completely to pure hardware for music production. No need to hassle with all these software problems. :-) [05:37] mpt: and i can tell you that not even my latest PB can make it all across the ocean.. not even in idle [05:38] alex-weej: you are worried about production on the go? === alex-weej suspects _ion's move has more to do with lack of Ubuntu support by most software manufacturers :| [05:38] joejaxx: no, i am worried about production sat here with my fat computer [05:38] <_ion> alex-weej: Nope. === KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F51ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:39] alex-weej: i still see no problem.. you are getting a low-latency kernel... and you are making a lot of fuss for nothing [05:39] and i am worried that i have to mess around with replacement packages for everything related to the kernel just so i can get something which windows and mac os x do with one kernel [05:39] nobody knows for sure if windows or macos do change the kernel to achieve this === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:40] <_ion> alex-weej: For the price of a computer barely adequate for music production, i get an excellent audio workstation with an intuitive interface. [05:41] ok [05:41] i prefer the flexibility of software but let's not digress :P [05:41] fabbione: some card require drivers like lets says asio4all [05:41] fabbione: on windows that is which decreases latency [05:42] fabbione: but that is with non-high end cards [05:42] but this is talking about sound card drivers here [05:42] joejaxx: not different to what i already said [05:43] well [05:43] i don't understand our kernel [05:44] i just think it's a shame we can't have it easier [05:44] "where are all the good audio production apps?" is the first attack any of my peers have against linux [05:44] alright, it has firefox, open office, it can play MP3s (!), but it sure as hell can't make a top 40 hit. [05:47] <_MMA_> alex-weej: Im missing your issue. The -lowlatency kernel will go to primarily serve apps like Ardour. [05:47] <_ion> Ardour is actually very good, although it could surely benefit from some interface design. Jamin is probably a good mastering tool, but my computer is too slow to test it. :-) [05:47] my point is - why can't we get better performance out of our "regular" kernel? [05:48] alex-weej: for the same reason that low latency patches aren't in mainline, because they adversely affect the 99.999% rest of the population who don't care about 32ms [05:48] [citation needed] [05:48] <_MMA_> _ion: Some of the Ardour devs are gonna help us test the kernel. I will then give that feedback to BenC. [05:48] alex-weej: actually it is true [05:49] there are reasons why things are not in linus upstream === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508D9286.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:49] alex-weej: The dynticks patches will alleviate all this "normal kernel" vs. "low latency" kernel crap [05:50] until then, you get what we have now [05:50] BenC: wassat? [05:50] dynticks is like what windows has, where the kernel adjusts timer interrupts based on userspace needs, dynamically [05:50] brilliant! [05:51] so why are we even bothering with this low latency kernel stuff, is the need really so immediate that we have to divert resources off working on dynamic ticking? [05:51] who knows, maybe it will get into 2.6.20, and we'll release feisty with just a great -generic kernel [05:52] alex-weej: because these patches are complex and very difficult to maintain [05:52] alex-weej: resources? There's no developer resources involved in providing this kernel...it's just a buildd/archive resource usage [05:52] and by providing it, we aren't taking away from dynticks [05:52] ok [05:52] i see [05:52] alex-weej: you need to think not just of the immediate needs, but also in a long term support for security [05:52] alex-weej: given that we need to support a kernel for at least 18 months [05:53] exactly, we can't just put dynticks in our kernel and hope for the best [05:53] i see [05:53] is the dynticks stuff immature? [05:53] alex-weej: and if one of these patches goes unmaintained it's a disaster [05:53] alex-weej: it's a disaster for our users... we just remove it [05:53] alex-weej: I believe they are in -mm [05:53] ok === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:54] alex-weej: so having a longer waiting time to get certain things most of the time pays off in the long term [05:54] alex-weej: try to imagine if all of a sudden we can't provide you security support for your synticks kind of thing [05:54] alex-weej: you would be as disappointed as not having it at all [05:54] well i'm glad the dynticks stuff has actually been done because i was getting a little worried we didn't have a solution at all [05:55] fabbione: it's ok i understand [05:55] I forget, is -generic the one that will kill my battery or is the new one? [05:55] plus.. you would get busted security wise, that's worst [05:55] Amaranth: lowlatency may shorten battery life [05:56] Alright [05:56] I'm not sure who to thank but I gained almost an hour going from dapper to edgy :) === BenC didn't really expect all this hype over low latency === j_ack__ [n=rudi@p508D90D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:56] wasn't that big of a deal when we had it enabled by default during dapper development :) [05:57] <_MMA_> BenC: It is appreciated. ;) === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:58] btw my usplash is still a big orange square with an ubuntu ring inside it [05:58] all the new installations i run are the same as the shutdown one - the black screen with white ubuntu text and logo [05:58] any ideas what went wrong? [05:59] (it's only the bootup one that is still orange) [06:00] fabbione: BenC oh yeah i wanted to apologize for not introducing myself at uds [06:00] sorray about that [06:00] sorry* [06:00] joejaxx: uh np.. i suck at remembering names anyway [06:00] I'm with fabbione on that one, I suck at names [06:01] oh alright [06:01] can anyone shed any light on this? i've reported it as a bug because smartmontools is returning "healthy" for whatever i throw at it https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/72774 [06:01] Malone bug 72774 in Ubuntu "My system takes ages to boot because of "buffer I/O errors"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] [06:02] <_MMA_> I think it was Ben I told looked like Zakk Wylde: http://www.guitarpart.fr/images/avousdejouer/jouez-comme-zakk-wylde.jpg [06:02] <_MMA_> @UDS that is. :) === daq4th [n=darkness@netstation-005.cafe.zSeries.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:22] So guys [06:22] Who's head do I need to find [06:22] and how do I hammer through it [06:22] VINO. ABSOLUTELY NEEDS. TO DISPLAY AN ICON IN THE NOTIFICATION AREA. [06:23] Someone, I'm not quite sure who or how, managed to dodge out my authentication! [06:23] My auth is not by password; Vino asks me whether to accept or reject connections, and while I wasn't here (or perhaps I was typing too fast and accidentally hit 'a' without seeing the window pop up) someone got around that and connected to my desktop [06:24] perhaps you need to fix your physical security ;) [06:24] for the past like 6 hours someone's been able to view-- but not control-- my desktop. Eventually I decided to see why my desktop was drawing so freaking slow; I checked netstat (suspecting as much-- I know what VNC does to X performance and people have been trying damn hard) and notice an established connection on 5900 [06:24] Lathiat: someone in another country. [06:25] also my screen locks when I'm AFK and you need a password to get around it [06:25] bluefoxicy: so, i heard vino takes patches :) [06:25] It'd be, to say the least, VERY NICE to be able to glance at the notification area and tell A) Vino is listening; B) someone is connected; C) that I can click and disconnect them [06:25] bluefoxicy: changesets accepted! [06:25] and/or you can file bugs :) [06:26] patches preferred [06:26] Lathiat, jdub: That'd be nice if I could code [06:26] bluefoxicy: and this is NOT the forum where to come and rand this way. [06:26] bugs I can file; the Gnome guys have a habit of not listening to anything, maybe I'll flag it 'security sensitive' to get their pants all in a knot [06:26] rant even [06:27] . /exec cat /dev/random ? [06:28] bluefoxicy: "not listening to anything"? perhaps in this mode of communication, sure. don't expect someone to lend you their car keys after you tell them their car is a hunk of junk. [06:29] <_ion> bluefoxicy: While you're typing to a window, a suddenly opened new window won't become active. [06:30] _ion: don't say that [06:30] _ion: that means either I did something really dumb, or someone got around VNC authentication on Vino [06:30] You have three obvious options. (a) Post a nice polite bug report asking for somebody to do the work for you. (b) do the work yourself or (c) pay somebody else to do it [06:31] Badgering people isn't going to help. [06:31] <_ion> bluefoxicy: Of course it's always *possible* the window manager's feature is buggy. === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === orkid [n=orkid@bas1-barrie18-1242381228.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === orkid [n=orkid@bas1-barrie18-1242381228.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === orkid [n=orkid@bas1-barrie18-1242381228.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:44] mako: amen! === alexr [n=shura@adsl-71-134-224-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === alexr [n=shura@adsl-71-134-224-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [06:47] there's a patch [06:47] to supply a tray icon [06:48] the bug it's in is from 2004! [06:48] and it won't be in GNOME 2.18 [06:48] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154467 === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-132-184.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:09] <_ion> Funny. The following extra packages will be installed: ntp The following packages will be upgraded: ntp [07:14] who did the merge missed something [07:14] it won't upgrade clean === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === malcc [n=malcolm@host86-135-237-55.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gouki [n=gouki@unaffiliated/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=sebi@p549652D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gouki [n=gouki@unaffiliated/gouki] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Hobbsee [n=user@14.5.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === admin123 [n=admin123@ip503d4396.speed.planet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaleo [i=boucault@arkana.iiens.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=user@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === malcc [n=malcolm@host86-135-237-55.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _MMA_ 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joined #ubuntu-devel === bhale [n=bhale@brandonhale.us] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjr [i=mjrauhal@myntti.helsinki.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dark [i=deviled_@microsoft.gotrooted.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@p54A66281.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dade` [n=dade@nectarine/admin/dade] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F720AC.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === smh [n=smh@CPE-67-48-248-195.new.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@221.216.191.238] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:59] good morning === Nafallo [n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:05] mvo: Ping? [08:05] Re: bug 6553 and bug 67146. [08:05] Malone bug 6553 in nautilus "Menu options are blank when no file selected" [Medium,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/6553 [08:05] Malone bug 67146 in synaptic "synaptic pinning/locking does not work" [Medium,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/67146 [08:05] mvo: I don't think you uploaded the right version into -proposed. [08:06] You've sent in ...ubuntu12 when you should have uploaded ubuntu12.1. [08:06] Can you fix this? [08:06] Also, please make the changelog refer to #67146 instead of #64005. [08:06] Thanks. [08:07] Nafallo: care to fix 67280 ? [08:07] sfllaw: it is possible that my upload was not accepted by the ubuntu-archive team, let me check [08:07] Oh wait, you're right. [08:07] It's still not there yet. [08:07] cjwatson: Ping? ^^^ [08:08] I was looking in the wrong archive. Forgive me, I'm sleepy. [08:08] sfllaw: I think the issue was that he wanted a patch without autotools garbage in the diff, I can do this now [08:08] Mithrandir: hi :-). yea, just saw the comment. will read up on the procedures for NEW ASAP. [08:08] Could be. [08:08] Please fix up the changelog too. Then I'll be happy. [08:09] Strangely, I'm having trouble reproducing a crash in synaptic. [08:09] It asserts on brokenness, but doesn't outright crash. [08:09] sfllaw: I had the same problem, it does only sometimes crash for some reason [08:10] valgrind would probably tell us why. [08:10] But that kind of fix is probably too deep. [08:10] Upload your new package and I'll see if it lets you set fonts in the first place. [08:11] sfllaw: no need for valgrind, the fix is trivial :) I will upload now right away [08:11] Thanks. [08:11] Ping cjwatson for me about it. [08:11] I need to go to bed. [08:12] Nafallo: coolie, thanks. [08:12] sfllaw: I will [08:12] sfllaw: I you have time when you are up again I would like to talk to you about release-upgrades testing (for a new wiki page) === freeflying [i=flyingfr@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=william@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === admin123 [n=admin123@ip503d4396.speed.planet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Xof [n=mas01cr@gibbons.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua_ [n=minghua@ppp-70-246-26-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@pd95b0676.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus_ [n=rodarvus@altas-apq.wrk.terra.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === d33p__ [n=d33p@87.217.144.244] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [n=shackan@85-18-14-13.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:24] hey Keybuk [09:25] morning Keybuk :-) [09:26] hey seb128, Keybuk [09:26] morning [09:27] Keybuk: could you do the sync from bug #73532 please? GNOME packages are FTBFSing until it's synced (or rebuilt) [09:27] Malone bug 73532 in libbonoboui "please sync libbobonoui 2.16.0-1 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/73532 [09:27] hi Burgundavia [09:30] seb128: sure, will be doing archive stuff in a bit [09:30] thank you === Zdra [n=zdra@122.172-247-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Xof [n=mas01cr@158.223.59.22] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-10-75.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@external-7.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:58] salut === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seeker` [n=cjo20@ip-62-105-182-26.dsl.twang.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:07] Good morning === carlos [n=carlos@75.Red-88-12-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:07] hey pitti [10:10] hey pitti! === minghua_ [n=minghua@adsl-67-66-50-231.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:13] hello pitti [10:15] morning pitti === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel === azeem [n=mbanck@host109.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti hugs everyone === Burgundavia hugs pitti [10:21] morning === sivang hugs pitti back === jinty [n=jinty@177.Red-83-54-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:23] hey sivang === neuralis [n=krstic@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stu1 [n=stub@ppp-58.8.1.69.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:41] jono: ping === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-42-123.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:49] mvo: ping? [10:54] hello fabbione [10:56] hey mvo ! [10:56] hey sivang! how is it going? [10:58] hey mvo [10:58] mvo: bug #59983 [10:58] Malone bug 59983 in ndiswrapper "ndiswrapper in edgy broken" [Medium,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/59983 [10:59] mvo: the short version is: we need to teach feisty upgrader to pull in ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 if ndiswrapper-utils-1.8 is installed [10:59] mvo: do you think you can do that before Herd 1 ? [11:00] mvo: the rest of the bug is related to dapper -> edgy and it doesn't matter to you for now.. it's basically unsolvable [11:00] mvo: fine, thanks, you? [11:01] fabbione: I think we can do this. herd 1 is tomorrow? [11:02] thu iirc [11:02] sivang: good! thanks. [11:02] fabbione: I do this now [11:02] mvo: thanks. i did add you to the bug and added a comment === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === admin123 [n=admin123@ip503d4396.speed.planet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:04] cjwatson, mdz: Is it ok to drop gtranslator from main? (not sure why it ever was there) [11:06] dholbach: what is causing it to be in main right now? [11:06] (see germinate output, seeds, etc.) [11:06] cjwatson: supported seed [11:06] it makes no sense it's in there and the comment is ... hum, not easy to understand :-) [11:07] seems it's been in main since warty [11:08] if having a desktop .po editor in main is not useful, then I don't mind [11:09] I know some people like to download files from Rosetta, translate them locally, and re-upload, though, rather than using Rosetta's web interface [11:09] perhaps you should check with translators? [11:10] hm, ok - I was just astounded to see it in main, I never thought it was very stable [11:10] cjwatson: I doubt those people would use gtranslater anyway. [11:11] my impression is that translators use vim/emacs or kbabel, some maybe use poedit, but few uses gtranslator === admin1231 [n=user@81.58.38.138] has joined #ubuntu-devel === admin123 [n=admin123@ip503d4396.speed.planet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-42-123.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === apokryphos [n=apokryph@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@cm10.omega19.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pradeep [n=pradeep@59.92.59.253] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:40] minghua_: ok, if it's not used, sure, we should drop it === cjwatson discovers how to transliterate "Ubuntu" into Korean. Ooh, pretty [11:41] === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:42] and Kubuntu is [11:42] nice === minghua_ wonders if there are more than one transliterations === minghua_ is now known as minghua === jayteeuk [n=jayteeuk@cpc1-derb5-0-0-cust76.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:43] minghua: that's the one all over the front page of www.ubuntu.or.kr [11:44] I'd been trying to work it out myself and googling for likely candidates; was also one of my guesses [11:44] spot who found a transliteration table [11:44] I see [11:45] but they seem to prefer u-bun-tu as a syllabification [11:46] shouldn't it be syllabified that way? [11:47] yeah, probably [11:48] although I think u-bu-ntu is closer, but that doesn't work well in Korean === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:53] cjwatson: hi, tetex-bin is giving me headache sometimes when installing dapper (preseeded a long list of packages to be installed, tetex-bin as one of them). It hangs on preinst [11:54] but would it help debugging if I made a local package which had "set -x" or similar in the preinst? [11:55] E: mozilla-firefox-locale-en-gb is in main but it's source (iceweasel-l10n) is not. [11:55] well, it looks like it's happened upstream [11:56] tepsipakki: I guess; I'm not really an expert, sorry [11:56] tepsipakki: DEBCONF_DEBUG=developer would be my first try though [11:56] cjwatson: ok I'll try that too === giuliastro [n=gyesspam@baobab.reti.dist.unige.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cprov [n=cprov@monga.dorianet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:07] ouch, sorry === Hobbsee wonders how that pasted in here === smh [n=smh@CPE-67-48-248-195.new.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:09] <_ion> hobbsee: I don't see anything pasted by you. [12:10] Neither did I. [12:10] hrm. [12:10] maybe i'm going insane? === Hobbsee kicks the laggy irssi === dholbach hugs Hobbsee === Hobbsee hugs dholbach back :) [12:11] <_ion> hobbsee: Irssi does have a paste detector that asks you to confirm a long enough paste, but if it's canceled, the lines should not become visible. [12:12] _ion: it was only one line [12:12] oh, i see now. now i'm getting messages spliced from different *networks* whicih i *know* are wrong. and at different times [12:13] Hobbsee: Force a redraw? [12:13] /redraw [12:13] right [12:13] <_ion> ^L [12:13] Or that. === lehaid [n=hello@l85-130-133-62.broadband.actcom.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:17] hi, how can i know if a given module in the ubuntu kernel is compiled with a flag or not ? === snowblink [n=snowblin@wind.snowblink.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:19] lehaid: Will modinfo tell you that? [12:19] lehaid: look at your /boot/config-*, but that question belong to #ubuntu, not here === heno [n=henrik@host-81-191-165-41.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@200165129086.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === careyoshea [n=carey@ppp20-110.lns2.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === syntithenai [n=stever@CWIP-T-011-p-225-102.tmns.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === syntithenai [n=stever@CWIP-T-011-p-225-102.tmns.net.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === lmanul [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Czubek [n=Damian@abpo140.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-87-229.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kent [n=kent@82.145.136.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@221.221.5.63] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cr3 [n=marc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/cr3] has joined #ubuntu-devel === irvin [n=ipp@124.217.15.66] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB| [n=ownthebo@host81-155-182-237.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dous [n=dous@124.104.0.197] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [n=herzi@kiwi.mediascape.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul_ [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shenki [n=shenki@ppp222-50.lns2.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:08] ok, I think I'm going to accept this Debian change that moves /etc/X11/xkb to /usr/share/X11/xkb [02:08] it's going to take some fiddling, though ... === cjwatson wonders how the symlinks /etc/X11/xkb/compiled and /etc/X11/xkb/xkbcomp get created [02:11] ah, xkbutils === Seeker` [n=cjo20@ip-62-105-182-26.dsl.twang.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:24] heh [02:24] funny when you do a merge, and think "hang on, I patched this" [02:24] and then realise you never uploaded the fixed version === underzsof [n=cvdsfg@ppp158-144.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:25] WWW.UNDERZSOFT.COM === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-53-124.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=spacehob@82.211.81.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-53-124.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [02:35] was NVU removed from repos for a reason? [02:35] or is it under a different name in feisty? [02:36] gnomefreak: it's still there [02:36] highvoltage: not here its not [02:36] gnomefreak: just enable universe [02:36] i have it [02:36] Filename: pool/universe/s/sl/sl_3.03-14_i386.deb [02:36] W: Unable to locate package nvu [02:36] ^^^ that's in edgy [02:37] weird. [02:37] im on feisty [02:37] hmm, it's not in feisty, no. [02:37] Or in Debian [02:37] ah well, then toughies :) [02:37] lol [02:37] (From Debian) RoM; abandoned upstream [02:37] i kind of liked it [02:38] That gives the version in Edgy a nice kind of irony. [02:38] nvu | 1.0final-2ubuntu2 | edgy/universe | source, amd64, i386 [02:38] gnomefreak, because is buggy and unmaintained [02:38] it's quite popular in some schools. strange that it's abandoned. === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:38] heh [02:39] safe to say we are not getting it back than? [02:39] Mithrandir, i asked for the removal, it's buggy and umaintained by upstream [02:40] gnomefreak, did you know about http://kompozer.net/ ? [02:40] <_MMA_> gnomefreak: I think its turning into something called "Composer". [02:40] no i did not [02:40] <_MMA_> Beat me to it. [02:40] ty [02:40] _MMA_, yeah! Kompozer ;) [02:41] quanta is cool if you have kde, otherwise vim is king :) (but this is really a discussion for #ubuntu, I'll stay quiet now) [02:42] <_MMA_> Heres NVU's author's blog: http://glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?Nvu === alex-weej [n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fjodor [n=sune@0x55510b65.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:47] why don't we merge fontconfig from debian, it's alread 2.4.1 in sid [02:47] are we looking at packaging it for feisty/feisty+1 === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ruilobao [n=rneto@200.187.23.134] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ruilobao [n=rneto@200.187.23.134] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jrib [n=jasonr@unaffiliated/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DBDB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack_ [n=rudi@p508DB479.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-95-76.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_ack__ [n=rudi@p508DB70C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === imbrandon [n=imbrando@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:11] rodarvus: around? I'd like to run this xkeyboard-config change past you, if you care === selle [n=schoepke@84-74-17-73.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #ubuntu-devel === selle [n=schoepke@84-74-17-73.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-53-124.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:29] Mithrandir: could you eyeball http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/xkeyboard-config.diff? That's just the new diff versus Debian; you can have the diff versus previous Ubuntu as well, but it's big and fat and in some ways less interesting 'cos there's a new upstream and a repackaging in there [03:29] Keybuk, cjwatson: either of you want to look at the braille-support spec again? [03:29] it's the preinst code I mostly care about [03:30] heno: oh, yeah, it's sitting open in my browser already waiting for me to get round to it [03:30] heh, ok :) [03:32] cjwatson: we can't get rid of the two symlinks from xkbutils? [03:32] Mithrandir: we can, but the transition would be a hairy mess because the server uses those === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:32] I'm not too horribly uncomfortable with just having a small symlink farm in /etc/X11/xkb/ === sittisal [n=sittisal@host125-41-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:33] ok [03:33] (and xkb-data would have to have Conflicts, etc., to make sure its preinst worked) [03:34] cjwatson: ok, looks good to me [03:34] right, thanks. It's possible I lost some of the patches from dapper era; checking === static_ [n=emurphy@194.18.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:38] they seem to be mostly backports or stuff that's been submitted so far === pirast [n=martin@p508B2978.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:48] ogra, ping :) === n8k99 [n=nathan@dsl254-078-190.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:49] giskard, pong [03:49] right, there goes xkeyboard-config. let me know if your keyboard explodes or something [03:49] ogra what is useful for patches-old/ in the debian/ of gnome-power-manager? === jono_ [n=jono@88-107-64-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:50] Keybuk: can you see a reason why wodim seems not to have been synced from Debian? === jono_ [n=jono@88-107-64-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:51] giskard, we didnt use any of these patches since dapper, i didnt want to throw them away in case we'd need to quickly enable one of them again ... you can remove the dir if you like [03:51] ogra, who wrote these patches? [03:52] most of them daniel silverstone iirc [03:52] i'd need to look them up ... [03:52] hmm, maybe it ftbfs-ed [03:52] they should all appear in the changelog somewhere [03:53] Mithrandir: because it doesn't exist in Debian? [03:53] Mithrandir, it needs cmake in main [03:53] Keybuk: does, it's a binary [03:53] its already synced (i looked at it yesterday) === Gadi [n=romm@static-71-249-255-248.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:53] from cdrkit [03:53] its in cdrkit [03:53] ahh [03:53] Mithrandir: when specifying syncs, please mention if it's a binary [03:53] we'll need a cdrecord->wodim transition === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has left #ubuntu-devel ["trombone"] [03:53] and cmake in main [03:54] ogra: Debian already has a perfectly good transition [03:54] cdrkit is stuck in dep-wait [03:54] Keybuk: I thought it was the name of the source package, which was why I was unable to track it down myself. [03:54] ah, cool [03:54] Keybuk: could you give back lshw for me? it should build now [03:54] Keybuk: as a penance, I'll do three NEWs now. [03:54] (promoted tipa for it) [03:55] cjwatson: done [03:55] Mithrandir: enjoy, it's beryl :P [03:55] :) [03:56] Keybuk: I wasn't thinking of _that_ bit. :-P [03:56] that's all that was in NEW last time I looked [03:56] If it's still got mesa, can you reject it and ask them to build-depend on mesa-swx11-source? [03:56] (Assuming that that's an adequate amount of mesa, and I'd be impressed if it isn't) [03:56] imbrandon, fabo and me would be happy to see beryl accepted ;) [03:56] Keybuk: Have you tested that patch yet? [03:56]