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| maccabeus | anybody out there? | 04:48 |
|---|---|---|
| Burgundavia | yes, but this isn't a help channel | 04:54 |
| Burgundavia | 5 bugs reported already | 04:55 |
| maccabeus | np -- not looking for help | 04:58 |
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| willvdl | @schedule | 11:10 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Nov 12:00: Edubuntu | 11:10 |
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| juliux | @schedule berlin | 11:16 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 Nov 13:00: Edubuntu | 11:16 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | | ||
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| Kamping_Kaiser | :) | 12:54 |
| juliux | hi RichEd | 12:54 |
| RichEd | hi Kamping_Kaiser ... juliux ... life slowly getting back to normal .... for a few weeks at least | 12:54 |
| juliux | RichEd, hehe | 12:55 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | RichEd, hope you get some stuff done in your normal weeks :) | 12:55 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | i hope to catch you some time in them, just btw :) | 12:55 |
| juliux | RichEd, i am in contact with a school inberlin, they are using edubuntu on a few pc;) | 12:56 |
| RichEd | hope so too ... on both accounts ... looks like it may be quiet until Jan, and then 3 more countries in 1 month :( | 12:56 |
| RichEd | juliux: great :) we'll sneak in slowly ... and become a majority :) | 12:56 |
| juliux | RichEd, i will do so;) | 12:56 |
| juliux | sorry but i have to go to university now:(((( | 12:57 |
| juliux | i will read the log | 12:57 |
| RichEd | np juliux : we'll be chatting soon ... probably early next week' | 12:57 |
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| === RichEd -> coffee ... back in 3 | ||
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| === ogra looks at the agenda .... | ||
| ogra | meh, please dont edit the static parts of it ... there is a section for additional topics .... | 12:59 |
| ogra | hmm, cbx33 isnt here ... | 12:59 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | um... meeting? | 01:02 |
| ogra | yes ? | 01:02 |
| RichEd | ogra: do you feel up to driving the meeting ? | 01:03 |
| ogra | i'm fine driving the tech issues | 01:03 |
| RichEd | okie ... | 01:03 |
| RichEd | ready when you are :) | 01:03 |
| ogra | since i dont have much to say yet ... edubuntu-desktop and ltsp were moved to match feisty ... we're preparing the first milestone CD for thursday | 01:03 |
| ogra | thats about it on the tech side ... dunno how much we can reveal public abotu the poland outcome yet ... | 01:04 |
| ogra | (until there are definite things) | 01:04 |
| ogra | cbx33 suggested a discussion about an edubuntu TB | 01:05 |
| ogra | but he's not here | 01:05 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | tb? | 01:05 |
| willvdl | pity | 01:05 |
| ogra | technical board | 01:05 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | oh | 01:05 |
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| ogra | he thinks we should ahve a more democratic approach for leading development ... | 01:05 |
| willvdl | I think it's a nice idea | 01:05 |
| ogra | while i agree i think its a bit early for that | 01:05 |
| willvdl | will help to pull in more developers | 01:06 |
| ogra | we dont have many devs yet, so there is no real benefit in managing teams etc | 01:06 |
| ogra | the team is only a handfull ... | 01:06 |
| ogra | apart from that i think we will need such a structure at some point ... | 01:07 |
| willvdl | see your point | 01:07 |
| ogra | but currently it looks to me that it would generate useless extra work with more meetings etc without weighting out the benefit we'll have from it | 01:08 |
| willvdl | ogra, what happens with the milestoe CD | 01:10 |
| ogra | apart from that we discuss thech issues in the meeting here and now, that should be enough until we have a crowd of devs that becomes hard to manage ... | 01:10 |
| ogra | willvdl, ?? can you be more specific ? | 01:10 |
| rodarvus | imho, it is nice from a philosofical PoV, but mostly bureaucracy at this moment (as ogra said, the team is still quite small to have a TB) | 01:10 |
| willvdl | just wondering if it's not really early for one? | 01:11 |
| ogra | willvdl, well, the release schedule is our rule ;) | 01:11 |
| ogra | actually its important to start early with the milestones to see the breakage ;) | 01:11 |
| willvdl | is it basically edgy with whatever feisty inclusions there are present in it | 01:12 |
| Mithrandir | willvdl: yes. | 01:12 |
| ogra | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule | 01:12 |
| Mithrandir | new installer, though. | 01:12 |
| willvdl | ah. | 01:12 |
| Mithrandir | as ogra says; if we don't start off doing milestones early we get to play a month of catch-up, which leads to the milestone freeze lasting a week which makes people angry at me which makes me sad. | 01:13 |
| ogra | it wont have the two CD spilt or anything yet ... or any nifty stuff ... | 01:13 |
| Mithrandir | and since I don't like to be sad and developers don't like to be angry, we do frequent milestones instead. | 01:13 |
| ogra | Mithrandir, i ove you for the freezes :) | 01:14 |
| willvdl | no problem with the schedule, just curious what would be in it | 01:14 |
| ogra | its a snapshot from the current archive ... stabilized for installability | 01:14 |
| ogra | (which is what the freeze is for) | 01:14 |
| Mithrandir | that's what all the milestones are, really. | 01:15 |
| ogra | right | 01:15 |
| ogra | RichEd, any additions to the tech side of life ? | 01:16 |
| RichEd | not too much ... just that we are all looking forward to feisty features :) | 01:16 |
| ogra | yeah :) | 01:16 |
| RichEd | People are impressed with the directory sign-on & fat client ... | 01:17 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | fat clietn would rock | 01:17 |
| ogra | i'm already poking around in the fat client area since yesterday ... | 01:17 |
| RichEd | have you explained to the people here the main new features ? or have they all seen them on the wiki ? | 01:17 |
| willvdl | chatted last week about them | 01:18 |
| ogra | but we'll need the auth-server in place first, moquist was doing a lot with it already, i'll have to check the code | 01:18 |
| RichEd | fat client takes us into the realms of "education enterprise deployment" ... manage thousands of w/s from one master config. | 01:18 |
| ogra | edubuntu-network-auth-client and edubuntu-network-auth-server are the two most impotrant ones | 01:19 |
| RichEd | Which means we will start pushing the buttons of decision makers, and not just local school Admins. | 01:19 |
| ogra | then we have ltsp-fat-clients and edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound | 01:19 |
| willvdl | ogra, how much work is that (he asks naively) | 01:19 |
| willvdl | auth-serv that is | 01:19 |
| ogra | the auth server is already implemented by moquist .. its majorly translating his scripts into sane package defaults for existing packages | 01:20 |
| ogra | he uses it with ubuntu at his schools | 01:20 |
| willvdl | cool | 01:21 |
| ogra | i hope to be done with the initial implementation before end of the year, fat-clients are easy and almost ready and should just afll into place then | 01:21 |
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| ogra | the sound architecture will be a bit more since we need to teach pulse to ignore certain autoconfig options, but shouldnt be hard either | 01:22 |
| ogra | i expect that to be done before the distro sprint | 01:22 |
| willvdl | nice | 01:22 |
| ogra | ltsp-management-gui and student-control-panel-upgrade are real development efforts, they will take their time | 01:23 |
| ogra | the ltsp-persistent-home spec is already implemented by sbalneav, just not committed to the packages yet | 01:24 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | looks like lots is going on | 01:24 |
| ogra | well, and local-apps seems not to happen in ubuntu directly, but i know sbalneav plans the for upstream ltsp, so we'll just inherit it | 01:24 |
| willvdl | I'm really interested in the SCP and LTSP-gui | 01:24 |
| ogra | (the spec isnt approved yet) | 01:24 |
| willvdl | yeah | 01:25 |
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| ogra | yeah, SCP will rock | 01:25 |
| willvdl | it will make such a difference | 01:25 |
| ogra | but we'll have to rename both, in an agreement with jammcq (ltsp upstream) we'll call them "thin-client-manager" (SCP) and "thin-client-configurator" (ltsp-manager) | 01:26 |
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| ogra | ltsp wants to get rid of the ltsp branding in all apps | 01:26 |
| willvdl | thin-client-manager could be a bit misleading | 01:26 |
| ogra | well, actually it would be thin-client-session-manager | 01:27 |
| willvdl | as a name | 01:27 |
| ogra | but thats a bit long | 01:27 |
| willvdl | tcsm then :) | 01:27 |
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| willvdl | "manager" might create the wrong expectation | 01:28 |
| ogra | the idea is to leave out complicated words without meaning ... my mother wouldnt know about "session" | 01:28 |
| ogra | well, yu manage thin-client connections | 01:28 |
| ogra | *you | 01:28 |
| ogra | while with the other tool you configure thin-client connections | 01:28 |
| willvdl | it's probably a moot point, but "manager" might mean that you manage the thin-client itself | 01:29 |
| ogra | well, you will probably be able to at some point ;) | 01:29 |
| willvdl | as in configure, etc | 01:29 |
| ogra | i.e. shut down the clients.... | 01:29 |
| ogra | or reboot them ... or make changes on the fly | 01:29 |
| willvdl | hmm, in that case | 01:30 |
| willvdl | no objections then :) | 01:30 |
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| ogra | but suggestions for better names are always welcome indeed :) | 01:30 |
| ogra | its just important the the "ltsp" goes away and has something more descriptive | 01:31 |
| ogra | which was the reason for "thin-client" | 01:31 |
| willvdl | what if it goes fat-client too? | 01:31 |
| ogra | it wont | 01:31 |
| willvdl | ltsp-fat-client? | 01:32 |
| ogra | fat clients will have their own mechanism, since they are totally different underneath ... you will rather have a "golden workstation" where you make all the changes to the system like to any other ubuntu system | 01:32 |
| willvdl | thinking purely of namespace... | 01:32 |
| ogra | they will then be picked up by the other fat clients | 01:33 |
| ogra | oh, right ... thats a ... | 01:33 |
| ogra | netbooted-workstation then ;) | 01:33 |
| ogra | fat-client is a bad term anyway | 01:34 |
| willvdl | cool. I just get the feeling that "thin-client" changes definition somewhat every now and then | 01:34 |
| ogra | a thin client is a diskless device that runs the display and in/output for a session running on the server | 01:34 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | thin clients can do local processing as well cant tehy? otehrwise they are a terminal...? | 01:35 |
| willvdl | some thin-clients have disks or flash-ram | 01:35 |
| ogra | right | 01:35 |
| ogra | but still thats the official definition we use for a thin client ... | 01:35 |
| willvdl | I can understand the need for dropping "terminal" though | 01:36 |
| willvdl | ambiguous that one is | 01:36 |
| willvdl | anyhoo, it's an ltsp decision that one | 01:36 |
| ogra | right | 01:36 |
| ogra | thin-client is something users can imagine ... ltsp isnt | 01:36 |
| ogra | thats the main reason | 01:36 |
| ogra | we'll very likely switch to ubuntu-thin-client-server from ltsp-server at some point as well | 01:37 |
| ogra | ok, if there are no other tech issues i'd say we should move on | 01:38 |
| willvdl | yeah, we hammered that one down :) | 01:38 |
| RichEd | next topic: Technical Documentation | 01:39 |
| ogra | and i'd like to postpone further discussion about the TB issue until more devs are present ... | 01:39 |
| willvdl | woot | 01:39 |
| ogra | (i.e. next meeting) | 01:39 |
| willvdl | or at least cbx33 :) | 01:39 |
| ogra | yeah | 01:39 |
| ogra | well, Laser would also be nice | 01:40 |
| willvdl | pity cbx33 and LaserJock aren't here | 01:40 |
| willvdl | anyhoo, I've been looking hard into docs recently | 01:40 |
| ogra | yay | 01:40 |
| willvdl | which includes marketing on some levels too | 01:40 |
| willvdl | and have scratchpad (https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WillVanDerLeij) which will find a logical home soon | 01:40 |
| willvdl | Firstly though, we need to get into the SVN repo | 01:41 |
| willvdl | and so doing integrate more into Ubuntu Doc Proj | 01:42 |
| ogra | thin-client-config and getting-started both are dapper oriented and need updates | 01:42 |
| willvdl | ogra, which brings me to versions... | 01:42 |
| willvdl | We need 6.06 versions obviously | 01:43 |
| willvdl | and 6.10 versions | 01:43 |
| willvdl | while contributing to 7.04 | 01:43 |
| ogra | the pages sbalneav wrote for the handbook are fine for ltsp documentation | 01:43 |
| ogra | (6.10 and 7.04) | 01:43 |
| RichEd | willvdl: i spoke to newz2000 about how we tag info to apply to a release version .... | 01:43 |
| ogra | gettingstarted and thinclientconfig are fine for 6.06 | 01:43 |
| RichEd | we need to get some sort of systematic approach ... some info does not apply to all releases, and some does | 01:44 |
| RichEd | wiki & wwww | 01:44 |
| willvdl | ogra, you're referring to help.u.c? | 01:44 |
| ogra | right, there are changes during development ... added features or changed ones | 01:44 |
| willvdl | RichEd, that's my 3rd point :) | 01:44 |
| RichEd | :) | 01:45 |
| ogra | willvdl, nope, to the handbook parts in svn | 01:45 |
| willvdl | ogra, cool. doc.u.c only refers to trunk so it is not really that helpful | 01:45 |
| RichEd | note that we need a back-review of existing ... and then a policy for tagging new docs (by the author at time of creation hopefully) | 01:45 |
| ogra | willvdl, ask sbalneav where they are exactly ... even if the handboook isnt ready his ltsp pieces will work standalone | 01:46 |
| willvdl | RichEd and tagging contributions to docs | 01:46 |
| willvdl | will do | 01:46 |
| willvdl | My point is we need official versions for "About" | 01:47 |
| willvdl | Do we need a "Desktop Guide" like K/Ubuntu? | 01:48 |
| willvdl | (looking at help.u.c) | 01:48 |
| ogra | nope | 01:49 |
| ogra | we need guides for the added value | 01:49 |
| ogra | but not for the desktop itself ... | 01:49 |
| willvdl | We use apps from both, so we would refer to the other Desktop Guides | 01:50 |
| ogra | having the original ubutu docs for server and desktop should be fine ... we should wrap a nice css around them to rebrand and add extra docs for the changes | 01:50 |
| willvdl | our "Desktop Guide" would then be only our added value... | 01:50 |
| ogra | nope, it would be a combo | 01:50 |
| ogra | s we can benefit from the exisiting docs | 01:51 |
| willvdl | sorry bit confused... | 01:51 |
| willvdl | we need to refer to the K/Ubuntu desktop guides somewhere | 01:52 |
| ogra | nope | 01:52 |
| willvdl | or auto-capture their info? | 01:52 |
| ogra | we will include the ubuntu server/desktop guide with a different branding and theme so they match edubuntu | 01:52 |
| ogra | and add chapters for the added value | 01:52 |
| willvdl | and where would the added chapters live? | 01:53 |
| ogra | during packaging the ubuntu docs will be rebranded and merged with our extra docs ... | 01:53 |
| ogra | everything will end up in the edubuntu-docs package which already exists as an empty package ... | 01:54 |
| willvdl | point being there would still be an Edubuntu Desktop Guide? | 01:54 |
| ogra | yes, it would be the merged doc | 01:55 |
| willvdl | with our added chapters and the merged sections from Ubuntu | 01:55 |
| willvdl | Excellent | 01:55 |
| ogra | right | 01:55 |
| willvdl | sorry | 01:55 |
| ogra | thats what i was planning ... | 01:55 |
| willvdl | lawnmowers outside my window | 01:55 |
| ogra | so we only need to maintain the additions | 01:55 |
| ogra | rebranding and themeing shoud happen automatically | 01:55 |
| ogra | (and merging) | 01:56 |
| willvdl | groovy | 01:56 |
| willvdl | yay docbook + svn | 01:56 |
| willvdl | So we have our "standard" stuff and the Handbook | 01:57 |
| ogra | right | 01:57 |
| willvdl | The Handbook will need versioning | 01:57 |
| ogra | first it will need finishing :P | 01:57 |
| willvdl | :) | 01:57 |
| willvdl | I'm curious about the School Advocacy doc | 01:57 |
| willvdl | Would that not logically become the "About Edubuntu" doc? | 01:58 |
| ogra | hedgemage and pygi both disappeared somehow ... | 01:58 |
| ogra | we'll need a new handbook team i suspect | 01:58 |
| ogra | (oh, and jerome as well) | 01:58 |
| willvdl | ogra, got a plan brewing :P | 01:58 |
| willvdl | it is cunning I hope | 01:58 |
| RichEd | :( that's quite a few "pillars" we've lost | 01:58 |
| ogra | currently sbalneav is the only active handbook writer | 01:58 |
| willvdl | https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html | 01:59 |
| ogra | well, hedgemage wanted to return in the dev area at some point | 01:59 |
| willvdl | ^^^ is the About doc for ubuntu | 01:59 |
| ogra | willvdl, there is also an about-edubuntu somewhere | 01:59 |
| ogra | jerome created it long ago | 01:59 |
| willvdl | In the wiki? | 01:59 |
| ogra | nope, in the edubuntu section of the svn somewhere | 01:59 |
| willvdl | oh. it's not on help.u.c | 02:00 |
| ogra | i knoe its in svn since breezy or dapper | 02:00 |
| ogra | *know | 02:00 |
| willvdl | either way, my question is more along the lines of what to do with ESA doc | 02:01 |
| willvdl | It is essentially an "About" doc | 02:01 |
| ogra | isnt it a bit big for "about" ? | 02:01 |
| === ogra hasnt see it since some time, but imagines its to big | ||
| RichEd | willvdl: we need to make specific versions ... not the one size fits all | 02:02 |
| willvdl | well it does delve into individual packages | 02:02 |
| willvdl | programmes rather | 02:02 |
| RichEd | people in Edulinuix agreed that a decision maker needs different info to a user / admin | 02:02 |
| RichEd | *Edulinux | 02:02 |
| willvdl | OK, "About" would then be a high level look at what is possible | 02:03 |
| willvdl | and ESA would be a middle level look at what is in edubuntu and what it can do for you | 02:03 |
| willvdl | RichEd, just remember these are official docs rather than promotional or sales materials | 02:04 |
| RichEd | we could have an overview for 4 sections : User, Teacher, Admin, Decision Maker | 02:04 |
| RichEd | = bullet points | 02:04 |
| RichEd | and then a detailed version of each ? | 02:04 |
| willvdl | RichEd but in which doc do you want such info? | 02:05 |
| RichEd | not sure what you mean ... I take it we are talking about Edubuntu Schools Advocacy ? | 02:05 |
| RichEd | So something like: | 02:06 |
| RichEd | #1 ESA - Overview | 02:06 |
| RichEd | #2 ESA - For Users | 02:06 |
| RichEd | #3 ESA - For Teachers | 02:06 |
| RichEd | etc ? | 02:06 |
| willvdl | so #1 is like the About Ubuntu doc | 02:06 |
| RichEd | Yep ... but more for spurring someone to use it, not for someone who has just installed it | 02:07 |
| willvdl | that's what About docs are for | 02:07 |
| RichEd | okay | 02:07 |
| willvdl | OK | 02:08 |
| willvdl | I'll look into splitting up docs for different audiences | 02:08 |
| willvdl | and how to manage the common info | 02:09 |
| willvdl | The Handbook audience is then who specifically? | 02:09 |
| ogra | admins, teachers, users | 02:09 |
| willvdl | or is it more like the Ubuntu Book, good for everyone | 02:09 |
| RichEd | Hand Book is all Hands On people | 02:10 |
| ogra | (currently rather admins and administrating teachers afaik) | 02:10 |
| ogra | (but target should be all three) | 02:10 |
| willvdl | So again, we could (if clever about it) intelligently merge and copy Handbook info into other docs | 02:10 |
| RichEd | It may break in the long term into: Handbook - for Admin / Handbook for Teachers Users | 02:10 |
| ogra | right | 02:11 |
| RichEd | (Admins spend more time on confirm, Users on applications) | 02:11 |
| willvdl | That would be a packaging thing again | 02:11 |
| RichEd | *config | 02:11 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | gnight all | 02:11 |
| willvdl | Kamping_Kaiser, gnight | 02:11 |
| RichEd | night Kamping_Kaiser :) chat soon | 02:11 |
| ogra | gnight Kamping_Kaiser | 02:11 |
| Kamping_Kaiser | see you tehn RichEd :) | 02:11 |
| willvdl | The trick is to drive contributions to all supported versions of the docs... | 02:12 |
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| ogra | well, released versions of the software wont change much | 02:13 |
| willvdl | agreed, but still need to finish some docs | 02:13 |
| ogra | so there is no real need for updates on the tech front (beyond enhancements) | 02:13 |
| willvdl | or "known bug" fixes, errata updates etc | 02:14 |
| willvdl | Moving onto the wiki and info in it? | 02:14 |
| === highvoltage is here!!! | ||
| ogra | right, then ou just need to provide one url for all versions | 02:15 |
| willvdl | woot, just in time! | 02:15 |
| RichEd | hey highvoltage :) | 02:15 |
| willvdl | ogra, help.u.c | 02:15 |
| ogra | so you can have perversion subpages on the wiki | 02:15 |
| ogra | ouch | 02:15 |
| ogra | that should have been per-version | 02:15 |
| highvoltage | hi RichEd, sorry, was reading scrollback | 02:16 |
| ogra | i'm no friend of h.u.c at all ... | 02:16 |
| RichEd | np | 02:16 |
| ogra | but if its unavoidable then h.u.c | 02:16 |
| willvdl | ogra, it does host the stable docs... | 02:16 |
| highvoltage | ogra: heh, I was just telling willvdl about that earlier | 02:16 |
| willvdl | making it much easier to maintain then the wiki | 02:16 |
| ogra | willvdl, yeah, and makes quick support impossible if you have the wiki urls stored ... | 02:17 |
| willvdl | ah, see what you mean | 02:17 |
| ogra | the delay through the forwarding isnt really helpful :) | 02:17 |
| willvdl | must be a clever way round that | 02:17 |
| ogra | yes, only store the new urls ... but the you miss out the new wiki docs | 02:18 |
| willvdl | well, what are the new wiki docs in this case? | 02:18 |
| ogra | its something that should be overthought again by a good documentation person imho | 02:18 |
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| willvdl | we'll soo what the doc team has to say | 02:19 |
| ogra | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins would be something new | 02:19 |
| ogra | it should stay on the wiki so people can change it easily and contribute to it | 02:20 |
| willvdl | OK, or even the capturing of forum info into community doc wiki | 02:20 |
| willvdl | the ubuntu doc team has a process around that. need to study in detail | 02:20 |
| RichEd | willvdl: pips1 and i were talking about forum data, and moving good info into wiki | 02:21 |
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| ogra | that will be a lot of work, you will need reviewers | 02:21 |
| RichEd | we will work on some sort of procedure, because this is a good place for a new community volunteer to help | 02:21 |
| willvdl | RichEd, have a look at the Doc Proj, they have a page up on how they plan to do that | 02:21 |
| willvdl | ogra, I guess I'm only really worried about getting rid of deprecated or outdated wiki pages | 02:22 |
| RichEd | Great. I mean there are people who are keen to help, but say "I am not that technical" ... so they can at least spot a solution, and tidy the thread into a doc as a way to start. | 02:22 |
| ogra | no | 02:22 |
| RichEd | ?? | 02:22 |
| jsgotangco | hey | 02:22 |
| ogra | thats a typical prob with the forums ... | 02:22 |
| RichEd | hey jsgotangco | 02:22 |
| RichEd | explain ogra ? | 02:23 |
| willvdl | jsgotangco, hey | 02:23 |
| === willvdl thinks he sees where ogra is going | ||
| ogra | instead of filing bugs and helping in solving them there are workarounds provided in a forum thread instead of getting people to use maolne | 02:23 |
| ogra | so we'll use valuable info, as well as the users probably loose the advised way to work around a bug | 02:23 |
| RichEd | ogra: I see that there would be moderators in between ... | 02:24 |
| ogra | technical probs should all be handled via bugs (even workarounds for them) | 02:24 |
| ogra | who would be that ? you need a decent technical background | 02:24 |
| willvdl | ogra, I guess that is the key probelm in oderating a forum (or even a list) | 02:24 |
| ogra | currently i rather see all tech people as devs than as reviewers ;) | 02:25 |
| RichEd | So if a user problem crops up in the forum, and some communtiy person explains a solution to a user, then IF it is a good solution and approved, then we make it a wiki page. And then the thread on the forums says: See wiki link for approved solution. | 02:25 |
| ogra | that still keeps the bug away from the developers attention, so it might never be fixed | 02:25 |
| === willvdl nods | ||
| ogra | bugs should really all go into the bugtracker and be discussed there | 02:26 |
| RichEd | That should be part of the approval process. File bug. | 02:26 |
| willvdl | RichEd, it does also depend on what is being fixed | 02:26 |
| ogra | right ;) | 02:26 |
| RichEd | Not necesaerily a fix, it could just be advice on how to use something that is working ! | 02:26 |
| ogra | we have many open bugs but we also have many bad advises to work around them ;) | 02:26 |
| RichEd | *neccessarily | 02:26 |
| willvdl | It's just a process question really. Will check with Doc Proj about this | 02:26 |
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| ogra | in malone you usually have at least one responsible person for development or packaging subscribed | 02:27 |
| RichEd | If we have the same user question popping up often in forums or #edubuntu, then even if we have documented help, that means people are not finding it easily. Hence move to a FAQ page with more visibility. | 02:28 |
| ogra | ++ | 02:28 |
| RichEd | That's the sort of thinking I mean ... not Fixing Bugs :) | 02:28 |
| willvdl | RichEd, or LaunchPad Answers | 02:28 |
| RichEd | Yep, as long as it is easy to find for the newbie ! and an unregistered nebie as wel ! | 02:28 |
| RichEd | *newbie | 02:29 |
| ogra | FAQ is always good ... | 02:29 |
| willvdl | any moderated knowledge base is good | 02:29 |
| juliux | re | 02:30 |
| ogra | right, despite the fact that you need knoledgeable moderators to have a good quality | 02:30 |
| willvdl | but there is still a great need for wikis and the like...as ogra said, helps in devel | 02:30 |
| willvdl | collaboration rather | 02:30 |
| ogra | and thats wheer we're lacking atm at least on the tech side ... | 02:30 |
| willvdl | ogra, which sections specifically? | 02:31 |
| ogra | every dev should do development as first prio atm ... we'll need the bridge people who understand the tech issues but are no coders | 02:31 |
| willvdl | meaning, ubuntu related stuff can be handled by the larger ubunut community | 02:31 |
| willvdl | but the edubuntu specific stuff has been mainly around LTSP | 02:32 |
| RichEd | as we expand out community and audience, we shold have more people at various levels ... depending in the skill of the volunteer, we need to find a good fit for them to feel productive. they can always advance towards dev as their confidence and skills levels grow. | 02:32 |
| juliux | dont forget for some people think there english is to bad to write bugreports | 02:32 |
| ogra | it will be mainy around educational software and enterprise techniques in the future | 02:32 |
| ogra | *mainly | 02:32 |
| RichEd | e.g for Edulinux, ther will be others helping with Training Manuals ... that can be harnessed for our wiki pages. | 02:32 |
| RichEd | *there | 02:32 |
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| ogra | willvdl, LTSP will only be one small aspect in the future ... | 02:33 |
| willvdl | the future, sure, but for now... | 02:33 |
| ogra | the two CD release opens a ton of new opporunities | 02:33 |
| ogra | well, i'm taking about feisty | 02:34 |
| willvdl | ogra, agreed | 02:34 |
| willvdl | see where this is going | 02:34 |
| willvdl | anyhoo, back to the wiki... :) | 02:34 |
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| ogra | we'll target more than the classroom, feisty will be a big chnge in all areas | 02:34 |
| === RichEd nods | ||
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| ogra | so we should be prepared for that on the doc side | 02:35 |
| ogra | especially if we dont ship the second CD it will need a good amount of extra docs here | 02:36 |
| willvdl | agreed | 02:36 |
| willvdl | Priority is to get DApper 100% up-t-date | 02:36 |
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| ogra | ugh | 02:37 |
| willvdl | The wiki needs housekeeping though | 02:37 |
| willvdl | I get what ogra says about linking from the wiki to "official" doc sections | 02:38 |
| ogra | dapper misses a lot of features and automatisms ... thats a huge effort | 02:38 |
| ogra | (LTSP wise) | 02:38 |
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| willvdl | we also need to structure the wiki around the different versions better | 02:39 |
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| willvdl | at the moment one is not always quite sure which version a specific section is referring to | 02:40 |
| === willvdl remembers RichEd mention tagging | ||
| RichEd | willvdl: re that structure comment, matt nuzum will give us the "next version of his www structure" soon ... we'll see how we can work with that | 02:40 |
| willvdl | great. | 02:41 |
| RichEd | he is revising the www.ubuntu and wiki.ubuntu ... and what CMS to use | 02:41 |
| RichEd | The requirement we have = "which version" is broader as we get into *ubuntu and "which variant" | 02:42 |
| RichEd | Not only for us in education, but *buntu support in general for Matt | 02:42 |
| willvdl | cool | 02:42 |
| willvdl | I'll keep specifics around sections and chapters and docs in a sidebar | 02:44 |
| willvdl | Lastly, on docs: | 02:44 |
| willvdl | just want ot get our meeting logs etc. tracked with/like the other teams | 02:45 |
| highvoltage | gtg, sorry will catch up on logs later | 02:45 |
| willvdl | seems there is some recent work/devel going on there | 02:45 |
| RichEd | bye highvoltage | 02:45 |
| willvdl | ciao boet | 02:45 |
| highvoltage | bye RichEd and willvdl | 02:46 |
| willvdl | and still need to look into marketing (docs, materials, plans etc) | 02:46 |
| RichEd | willvdl: good point ... this is an area we should formalise ... especially actions assigned during meetings | 02:46 |
| willvdl | time has not allowed that and Burgundavia wants to chat first too | 02:46 |
| RichEd | okie ... we're getting close to time ... so any point in discussing : Art Work | 02:48 |
| RichEd | (cbx33 is not here) | 02:48 |
| jsgotangco | i just want to take this chance | 02:48 |
| jsgotangco | while im here | 02:48 |
| jsgotangco | that i am resigning my position in the council | 02:49 |
| willvdl | urk | 02:49 |
| === willvdl hopes only temporarily | ||
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| jsgotangco | well i cannot say, my work has eaten up any time i can give for edubuntu | 02:49 |
| ogra | ouch | 02:49 |
| RichEd | :( | 02:50 |
| juliux | :( | 02:50 |
| ogra | will be very very hard to find someone to take that place :( | 02:50 |
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| jsgotangco | im sorry i thought it was possible to balance things out but a lot of stuff happened in such a short time | 02:52 |
| RichEd | jsgotangco: is it good for you at least ? productive ? enjoyable ? | 02:52 |
| jsgotangco | well i cannot say its enjoyable at the moment | 02:52 |
| jsgotangco | but i think its my chance now to have at least a stable job | 02:52 |
| === jsgotangco is not getting any younger in the local workforce here | ||
| willvdl | jsgotangco ++ cheer cheer | 02:54 |
| willvdl | seriously, all the best in where ever it takes you | 02:54 |
| === RichEd agrees and thanks jsgotangco for his past work :) | ||
| ogra | ++ | 02:55 |
| jsgotangco | well all i can say that being part of the project did open up avenues for me, unexpectedly, although I did have bigger aspirations but didn't happen | 02:57 |
| willvdl | RichEd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ausimage <-- new developments | 02:57 |
| RichEd | jsgotangco: time will tell ... our paths are sure to be be intertwined | 02:57 |
| jsgotangco | and ive seen edubuntu start from a small bof in UDU | 02:57 |
| RichEd | thanks willvdl | 02:57 |
| willvdl | jsgotangco, your name is everywhere in edubuntu | 02:57 |
| RichEd | we're almost at end of meeting time ... so just a short comment from me before we wrap | 02:58 |
| jsgotangco | well i just want to be honest now that i actually moved my computers to another OS except one pc i use everyday and its still runing edubuntu | 02:58 |
| jsgotangco | and i'll still watch the project and be involved when i can | 02:58 |
| willvdl | :) | 02:58 |
| RichEd | pips1 and I spent 2 days at UDS looking at structure for our (user and teacher) community site ... I will document this into a wiki page during the next week or so. | 02:59 |
| RichEd | We are open to suggestion and comments, so once i have the wiki page up, we can discuss in this meeting, or convene antother for those who are interested. | 03:00 |
| jsgotangco | and the project i am involved with at work will still be based in edubuntu so i will still be pretty much in the loop whenever possible | 03:00 |
| RichEd | Main goals of the community site: | 03:00 |
| RichEd | #1 make existing users happier | 03:00 |
| RichEd | #2 recruit more users | 03:01 |
| RichEd | #3 recruit more volunteers | 03:01 |
| RichEd | ... that's all I wanted to say for today. | 03:01 |
| willvdl | cool. look forward to it | 03:02 |
| ogra | ++ for #3 | 03:02 |
| willvdl | #4 clone some ogras | 03:03 |
| ogra | that should be covered by #3 ;) | 03:03 |
| willvdl | (we got some hair samples at UDS) | 03:03 |
| ogra | haha | 03:03 |
| willvdl | It was California after all | 03:03 |
| RichEd | willvdl: we'd need to clone them fully grown ! | 03:03 |
| willvdl | groth hormone | 03:04 |
| willvdl | growth rather | 03:04 |
| RichEd | willvdl: that sounded like a litp: did you hear that "groth hormone" :) | 03:04 |
| RichEd | *lithp | 03:04 |
| RichEd | ogra you okay to wrap up ? | 03:05 |
| RichEd | anthing else ? | 03:05 |
| willvdl | gwoth howmoan | 03:05 |
| ogra | nothing from my side | 03:05 |
| jsgotangco | thanks everyone | 03:05 |
| ogra | thanks :) | 03:05 |
| RichEd | okay thanks all ... sorry we were so scarce with the conferences, but back at home now | 03:05 |
| willvdl | thanks all, been very helpful for me! | 03:05 |
| RichEd | so we'll see you next week in December ... same place 12 hours later in the day | 03:06 |
| RichEd | going once | 03:06 |
| RichEd | going twice ... | 03:06 |
| === RichEd looks around .... | ||
| willvdl | ding ding ding | 03:06 |
| === ogra ducks | ||
| RichEd | Done. Thanks. Bye. | 03:06 |
| ogra | bye :) | 03:06 |
| willvdl | ciao | 03:07 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | | ||
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| lguerra | @schedule bogota | 05:13 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/Bogota: | 05:13 |
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| cbx33 | @schedule | 05:43 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: | 05:43 |
| cbx33 | soemthing broken? | 05:43 |
| tonyyarusso | cbx33: I don't think so. | 05:44 |
| tonyyarusso | To my knowledge there are no meetings scheduled. | 05:44 |
| cbx33 | it's wednesday | 05:44 |
| cbx33 | pah it's already gone | 05:45 |
| cbx33 | taht's why it's not showing up | 05:45 |
| tonyyarusso | yep | 05:45 |
| tonyyarusso | the bot should have a better message than null though | 05:45 |
| tonyyarusso | Seveas: ping | 05:45 |
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| Spec | why? :-/ | 06:03 |
| tonyyarusso | Just to be less confusing I'd think | 06:04 |
| tonyyarusso | Something like Schedule for Etc/UTC: No meetings scheduled | 06:04 |
| Adri2000 | anyway there is a devel meeting tomorrow :p | 06:05 |
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| tonyyarusso | Adri2000: Want to contact the authorities to get it on the list? | 06:06 |
| Adri2000 | it would be better :) | 06:07 |
| Adri2000 | but I don't know who are the authorities for that | 06:07 |
| Adri2000 | fridge people? | 06:07 |
| tonyyarusso | I believe that's correct | 06:08 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Nov 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Dec 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
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| gnomefreak | the bot should have next meeting (if its reading off the fridge correctly) next meeting is devel 2100 on 30th | 06:34 |
| gnomefreak | @now new_tork | 06:34 |
| gnomefreak | @now new_york | 06:34 |
| Ubugtu | Current time in America/New_York: November 29 2006, 12:34:42 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 1 day | 06:34 |
| tonyyarusso | gnomefreak: Good now. | 06:35 |
| gnomefreak | it needed to update | 06:35 |
| tonyyarusso | Oh - scheduled syncing? | 06:35 |
| gnomefreak | yes | 06:36 |
| tonyyarusso | Gotcha | 06:37 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Nov 21:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Dec 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Dec 08:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | ||
| Adri2000 | still no CC :/ | 06:42 |
| tonyyarusso | not yet | 06:42 |
| tonyyarusso | I really wish those were scheduled so that the next one was listed by the end of each meeting if not before. | 06:43 |
| === tonyyarusso is too used to scouts & venture, where we make annual plans | ||
| gnomefreak | the issue we ran into was UDS thats why its taken so long | 06:44 |
| Adri2000 | usually it's every 2 weeks I believe, but the last one was 6 weeks ago | 06:44 |
| tonyyarusso | Yeah, UDS plus restructuring of who's on the CC I think | 06:44 |
| gnomefreak | i think its at the point we know who the new members are just waiting for the finishing touches. they were supposed to vote on the new members at UDS | 06:45 |
| tonyyarusso | Oh | 06:45 |
| tonyyarusso | I'm hoping to add myself to the list, but only if I can make the time, which we don't know yet. | 06:45 |
| gnomefreak | i know we lost one CC memeber but i heard we lost a second also | 06:45 |
| tonyyarusso | How come? | 06:46 |
| gnomefreak | time was up i think | 06:47 |
| tonyyarusso | ah | 06:47 |
| gnomefreak | afaik the CC members are also on timed seats as membership is | 06:47 |
| tonyyarusso | Sounds right | 06:48 |
| tonyyarusso | hehe - it makes me nervous that Mark is /away with 12 minutes before he's up | 06:48 |
| gnomefreak | i would ping jono when hes free and ask him whats up with the CC he should be looking into next meeting in the next week or so | 06:49 |
| tonyyarusso | That's what he said in his previous session - will bring it up I think after he's done with his Q/A | 06:49 |
| gnomefreak | he will make it if not on time a couple of minutes late (hes allowed to) ;) | 06:49 |
| gnomefreak | but i dont htink hes gonna get much done this week on it due to the meetings this week and herd1 release tomorrow | 06:50 |
| tonyyarusso | Yeah, three minutes in or so seems to be his style, minimum. | 06:50 |
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| stgraber | @schedule Zurich | 10:39 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 30 Nov 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Dec 21:00: Edubuntu | 07 Dec 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Dec 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 21:00: Edubuntu | 10:39 |
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| Seveas | @schedule | 10:45 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Nov 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Dec 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Dec 12:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 10:45 |
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