[04:48] <maccabeus> anybody out there?
[04:54] <Burgundavia> yes, but this isn't a help channel
[04:55] <Burgundavia> 5 bugs reported already
[04:58] <maccabeus> np -- not looking for help
[11:10] <willvdl> @schedule
[11:10] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Nov 12:00: Edubuntu
[11:16] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[11:16] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 Nov 13:00: Edubuntu
[12:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[12:54] <juliux> hi RichEd
[12:54] <RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser ... juliux ... life slowly getting back to normal .... for a few weeks at least
[12:55] <juliux> RichEd, hehe
[12:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, hope you get some stuff done in your normal weeks :)
[12:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> i hope to catch you some time in them, just btw :)
[12:56] <juliux> RichEd, i am in contact with a school inberlin, they are using edubuntu on a few pc;)
[12:56] <RichEd> hope so too ... on both accounts ... looks like it may be quiet until Jan, and then 3 more countries in 1 month :(
[12:56] <RichEd> juliux: great :) we'll sneak in slowly ... and become a majority :)
[12:56] <juliux> RichEd, i will do so;)
[12:57] <juliux> sorry but i have to go to university now:((((
[12:57] <juliux> i will read the log
[12:57] <RichEd> np juliux : we'll be chatting soon ... probably early next week'
[12:59] <ogra> meh, please dont edit the static parts of it ... there is a section for additional topics ....
[12:59] <ogra> hmm, cbx33 isnt here ...
[01:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> um... meeting?
[01:02] <ogra> yes ?
[01:03] <RichEd> ogra: do you feel up to driving the meeting ?
[01:03] <ogra> i'm fine driving the tech issues
[01:03] <RichEd> okie ...
[01:03] <RichEd> ready when you are :)
[01:03] <ogra> since i dont have much to say yet ... edubuntu-desktop and ltsp were moved to match feisty ... we're preparing the first milestone CD for thursday
[01:04] <ogra> thats about it on the tech side ... dunno how much we can reveal public abotu the poland outcome yet ...
[01:04] <ogra> (until there are definite things)
[01:05] <ogra> cbx33 suggested a discussion about an edubuntu TB
[01:05] <ogra> but he's not here
[01:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> tb?
[01:05] <willvdl> pity
[01:05] <ogra> technical board
[01:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh
[01:05] <ogra> he thinks we should ahve a more democratic approach for leading development ...
[01:05] <willvdl> I think it's a nice idea
[01:05] <ogra> while i agree i think its a bit early for that
[01:06] <willvdl> will help to pull in more developers
[01:06] <ogra> we dont have many devs yet, so there is no real benefit in managing teams etc
[01:06] <ogra> the team is only a handfull ...
[01:07] <ogra> apart from that i think we will need such a structure at some point ...
[01:07] <willvdl> see your point
[01:08] <ogra> but currently it looks to me that it would generate useless extra work with more meetings etc without weighting out the benefit we'll have from it
[01:10] <willvdl> ogra, what happens with the milestoe CD
[01:10] <ogra> apart from that we discuss thech issues in the meeting here and now, that should be enough until we have a crowd of devs that becomes hard to manage ...
[01:10] <ogra> willvdl, ?? can you be more specific ?
[01:10] <rodarvus> imho, it is nice from a philosofical PoV, but mostly bureaucracy at this moment (as ogra said, the team is still quite small to have a TB)
[01:11] <willvdl> just wondering if it's not really early for one?
[01:11] <ogra> willvdl, well, the release schedule is our rule ;)
[01:11] <ogra> actually its important to start early with the milestones to see the breakage ;)
[01:12] <willvdl> is it basically edgy with whatever feisty inclusions there are present in it
[01:12] <Mithrandir> willvdl: yes.
[01:12] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
[01:12] <Mithrandir> new installer, though.
[01:12] <willvdl> ah.
[01:13] <Mithrandir> as ogra says; if we don't start off doing milestones early we get to play a month of catch-up, which leads to the milestone freeze lasting a week which makes people angry at me which makes me sad.
[01:13] <ogra> it wont have the two CD spilt or anything yet ... or any nifty stuff ...
[01:13] <Mithrandir> and since I don't like to be sad and developers don't like to be angry, we do frequent milestones instead.
[01:14] <ogra> Mithrandir, i ove you for the freezes :)
[01:14] <willvdl> no problem with the schedule, just curious what would be in it
[01:14] <ogra> its a snapshot from the current archive ... stabilized for installability
[01:14] <ogra> (which is what the freeze is for)
[01:15] <Mithrandir> that's what all the milestones are, really.
[01:15] <ogra> right
[01:16] <ogra> RichEd, any additions to the tech side of life ?
[01:16] <RichEd> not too much ... just that we are all looking forward to feisty features :)
[01:16] <ogra> yeah :)
[01:17] <RichEd> People are impressed with the directory sign-on & fat client ...
[01:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> fat clietn would rock
[01:17] <ogra> i'm already poking around in the fat client area since yesterday ...
[01:17] <RichEd> have you explained to the people here the main new features ? or have they all seen them on the wiki ?
[01:18] <willvdl> chatted last week about them
[01:18] <ogra> but we'll need the auth-server in place first, moquist was doing a lot with it already, i'll have to check the code
[01:18] <RichEd> fat client takes us into the realms of "education enterprise deployment" ... manage thousands of w/s from one master config.
[01:19] <ogra> edubuntu-network-auth-client and edubuntu-network-auth-server are the two most impotrant ones
[01:19] <RichEd> Which means we will start pushing the buttons of decision makers, and not just local school Admins.
[01:19] <ogra> then we have ltsp-fat-clients and edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound
[01:19] <willvdl> ogra, how much work is that (he asks naively)
[01:19] <willvdl> auth-serv that is
[01:20] <ogra> the auth server is already implemented by moquist .. its majorly translating his scripts into sane package defaults for existing packages
[01:20] <ogra> he uses it with ubuntu at his schools
[01:21] <willvdl> cool
[01:21] <ogra> i hope to be done with the initial implementation before end of the year, fat-clients are easy and almost ready and should just afll into place then
[01:22] <ogra> the sound architecture will be a bit more since we need to teach pulse to ignore certain autoconfig options, but shouldnt be hard either
[01:22] <ogra> i expect that to be done before the distro sprint
[01:22] <willvdl> nice
[01:23] <ogra> ltsp-management-gui and student-control-panel-upgrade are real development efforts, they will take their time
[01:24] <ogra> the ltsp-persistent-home spec is already implemented by sbalneav, just not committed to the packages yet
[01:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> looks like lots is going on
[01:24] <ogra> well, and local-apps seems not to happen in ubuntu directly, but i know sbalneav plans the for upstream ltsp, so we'll just inherit it
[01:24] <willvdl> I'm really interested in the SCP and LTSP-gui
[01:24] <ogra> (the spec isnt approved yet)
[01:25] <willvdl> yeah
[01:25] <ogra> yeah, SCP will rock
[01:25] <willvdl> it will make such a difference
[01:26] <ogra> but we'll have to rename both, in an agreement with jammcq (ltsp upstream) we'll call them "thin-client-manager" (SCP) and "thin-client-configurator" (ltsp-manager)
[01:26] <ogra> ltsp wants to get rid of the ltsp branding in all apps
[01:26] <willvdl> thin-client-manager could be a bit misleading
[01:27] <ogra> well, actually it would be thin-client-session-manager
[01:27] <willvdl> as a name
[01:27] <ogra> but thats a bit long
[01:27] <willvdl> tcsm then :)
[01:28] <willvdl> "manager" might create the wrong expectation
[01:28] <ogra> the idea is to leave out complicated words without meaning ... my mother wouldnt know about "session"
[01:28] <ogra> well, yu manage thin-client connections
[01:28] <ogra> *you
[01:28] <ogra> while with the other tool you configure thin-client connections
[01:29] <willvdl> it's probably a moot point, but "manager" might mean that you manage the thin-client itself
[01:29] <ogra> well, you will probably be able to at some point ;)
[01:29] <willvdl> as in configure, etc
[01:29] <ogra> i.e. shut down the clients....
[01:29] <ogra> or reboot them ... or make changes on the fly
[01:30] <willvdl> hmm, in that case
[01:30] <willvdl> no objections then :)
[01:30] <ogra> but suggestions for better names are always welcome indeed :)
[01:31] <ogra> its just important the the "ltsp" goes away and has something more descriptive
[01:31] <ogra> which was the reason for "thin-client"
[01:31] <willvdl> what if it goes fat-client too?
[01:31] <ogra> it wont
[01:32] <willvdl> ltsp-fat-client?
[01:32] <ogra> fat clients will have their own mechanism, since they are totally different underneath ... you will rather have a "golden workstation" where you make all the changes to the system like to any other ubuntu system
[01:32] <willvdl> thinking purely of namespace...
[01:33] <ogra> they will then be picked up by the other fat clients
[01:33] <ogra> oh, right ... thats a ...
[01:33] <ogra> netbooted-workstation then ;)
[01:34] <ogra> fat-client is a bad term anyway
[01:34] <willvdl> cool. I just get the feeling that "thin-client"  changes definition somewhat every now and then
[01:34] <ogra> a thin client is a diskless device that runs the display and in/output for a session running on the server
[01:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> thin clients can do local processing as well cant tehy? otehrwise they are a terminal...?
[01:35] <willvdl> some thin-clients have disks or flash-ram
[01:35] <ogra> right
[01:35] <ogra> but still thats the official definition we use for a thin client ...
[01:36] <willvdl> I can understand the need for dropping "terminal" though
[01:36] <willvdl> ambiguous that one is
[01:36] <willvdl> anyhoo, it's an ltsp decision that one
[01:36] <ogra> right
[01:36] <ogra> thin-client is something users can imagine ... ltsp isnt
[01:36] <ogra> thats the main reason
[01:37] <ogra> we'll very likely switch to ubuntu-thin-client-server from ltsp-server at some point as well
[01:38] <ogra> ok, if there are no other tech issues i'd say we should move on
[01:38] <willvdl> yeah, we hammered that one down :)
[01:39] <RichEd> next topic: Technical Documentation
[01:39] <ogra> and i'd like to postpone further discussion about the TB issue until more devs are present ...
[01:39] <willvdl> woot
[01:39] <ogra> (i.e. next meeting)
[01:39] <willvdl> or at least cbx33 :)
[01:39] <ogra> yeah
[01:40] <ogra> well, Laser would also be nice
[01:40] <willvdl> pity cbx33 and LaserJock aren't here
[01:40] <willvdl> anyhoo, I've been looking hard into docs recently
[01:40] <ogra> yay
[01:40] <willvdl> which includes marketing on some levels too
[01:40] <willvdl> and have scratchpad (https://wiki.edubuntu.org/WillVanDerLeij) which will find a logical home soon
[01:41] <willvdl> Firstly though, we need to get into the SVN repo
[01:42] <willvdl> and so doing integrate more into Ubuntu Doc Proj
[01:42] <ogra> thin-client-config and getting-started both are dapper oriented and need updates
[01:42] <willvdl> ogra, which brings me to versions...
[01:43] <willvdl> We need 6.06 versions obviously
[01:43] <willvdl> and 6.10 versions
[01:43] <willvdl> while contributing to 7.04
[01:43] <ogra> the pages sbalneav wrote for the handbook are fine for ltsp documentation
[01:43] <ogra> (6.10 and 7.04)
[01:43] <RichEd> willvdl: i spoke to newz2000 about how we tag info to apply to a release version ....
[01:43] <ogra> gettingstarted and thinclientconfig are fine for 6.06
[01:44] <RichEd> we need to get some sort of systematic approach ... some info does not apply to all releases, and some does
[01:44] <RichEd> wiki & wwww
[01:44] <willvdl> ogra, you're referring to help.u.c?
[01:44] <ogra> right, there are changes during development ... added features or changed ones
[01:44] <willvdl> RichEd, that's my 3rd point :)
[01:45] <RichEd> :)
[01:45] <ogra> willvdl, nope, to the handbook parts in svn
[01:45] <willvdl> ogra, cool. doc.u.c only refers to trunk so it is not really that helpful
[01:45] <RichEd> note that we need a back-review of existing ... and then a policy for tagging new docs (by the author at time of creation hopefully)
[01:46] <ogra> willvdl, ask sbalneav where they are exactly ... even if the handboook isnt ready his ltsp pieces will work standalone
[01:46] <willvdl> RichEd and tagging contributions to docs
[01:46] <willvdl> will do
[01:47] <willvdl> My point is we need official versions for "About"
[01:48] <willvdl> Do we need a "Desktop Guide" like K/Ubuntu?
[01:48] <willvdl> (looking at help.u.c)
[01:49] <ogra> nope
[01:49] <ogra> we need guides for the added value
[01:49] <ogra> but not for the desktop itself ...
[01:50] <willvdl> We use apps from both, so we would refer to the other Desktop Guides
[01:50] <ogra> having the original ubutu docs for server and desktop should be fine ... we should wrap a nice css around them to rebrand and add extra docs for the changes
[01:50] <willvdl> our "Desktop Guide" would then be only our added value...
[01:50] <ogra> nope, it would be a combo
[01:51] <ogra> s we can benefit from the exisiting docs
[01:51] <willvdl> sorry bit confused...
[01:52] <willvdl> we need to refer to the K/Ubuntu desktop guides somewhere
[01:52] <ogra> nope
[01:52] <willvdl> or auto-capture their info?
[01:52] <ogra> we will include the ubuntu server/desktop guide with a different branding and theme so they match edubuntu
[01:52] <ogra> and add chapters for the added value
[01:53] <willvdl> and where would the added chapters live?
[01:53] <ogra> during packaging the ubuntu docs will be rebranded and merged with our extra docs ...
[01:54] <ogra> everything will end up in the edubuntu-docs package which already exists as an empty package ...
[01:54] <willvdl> point being there would still be an Edubuntu Desktop Guide?
[01:55] <ogra> yes, it would be the merged doc
[01:55] <willvdl> with our added chapters and the merged sections from Ubuntu
[01:55] <willvdl> Excellent
[01:55] <ogra> right
[01:55] <willvdl> sorry
[01:55] <ogra> thats what i was planning ...
[01:55] <willvdl> lawnmowers outside my window
[01:55] <ogra> so we only need to maintain the additions
[01:55] <ogra> rebranding and themeing shoud happen automatically
[01:56] <ogra> (and merging)
[01:56] <willvdl> groovy
[01:56] <willvdl> yay docbook + svn
[01:57] <willvdl> So we have our "standard" stuff and the Handbook
[01:57] <ogra> right
[01:57] <willvdl> The Handbook will need versioning
[01:57] <ogra> first it will need finishing :P
[01:57] <willvdl> :)
[01:57] <willvdl> I'm curious about the School Advocacy doc
[01:58] <willvdl> Would that not logically become the "About Edubuntu" doc?
[01:58] <ogra> hedgemage and pygi both disappeared somehow ...
[01:58] <ogra> we'll need a new handbook team i suspect
[01:58] <ogra> (oh, and jerome as well)
[01:58] <willvdl> ogra, got a plan brewing :P
[01:58] <willvdl> it is cunning I hope
[01:58] <RichEd> :( that's quite a few "pillars" we've lost
[01:58] <ogra> currently sbalneav is the only active handbook writer
[01:59] <willvdl> https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html
[01:59] <ogra> well, hedgemage wanted to return in the dev area at some point
[01:59] <willvdl> ^^^ is the About doc for ubuntu
[01:59] <ogra> willvdl, there is also an about-edubuntu somewhere
[01:59] <ogra> jerome created it long ago
[01:59] <willvdl> In the wiki?
[01:59] <ogra> nope, in the edubuntu section of the svn somewhere
[02:00] <willvdl> oh. it's not on help.u.c
[02:00] <ogra> i knoe its in svn since breezy or dapper
[02:00] <ogra> *know
[02:01] <willvdl> either way, my question is more along the lines of what to do with ESA doc
[02:01] <willvdl> It is essentially an "About" doc
[02:01] <ogra> isnt it a bit big for "about" ?
[02:02] <RichEd> willvdl: we need to make specific versions ... not the one size fits all
[02:02] <willvdl> well it does delve into individual packages
[02:02] <willvdl> programmes rather
[02:02] <RichEd> people in Edulinuix agreed that a decision maker needs different info to a user / admin
[02:02] <RichEd> *Edulinux
[02:03] <willvdl> OK, "About" would then be a high level look at what is possible
[02:03] <willvdl> and ESA would be a middle level look at what is in edubuntu and what it can do for you
[02:04] <willvdl> RichEd, just remember these are official docs rather than promotional or sales materials
[02:04] <RichEd> we could have an overview for 4 sections : User, Teacher, Admin, Decision Maker
[02:04] <RichEd> = bullet points
[02:04] <RichEd> and then a detailed version of each ?
[02:05] <willvdl> RichEd but in which doc do you want such info?
[02:05] <RichEd> not sure what you mean ... I take it we are talking about Edubuntu Schools Advocacy ?
[02:06] <RichEd> So something like:
[02:06] <RichEd> #1 ESA - Overview
[02:06] <RichEd> #2 ESA - For Users
[02:06] <RichEd> #3 ESA - For Teachers
[02:06] <RichEd> etc ?
[02:06] <willvdl> so #1 is like the About Ubuntu doc
[02:07] <RichEd> Yep ... but more for spurring someone to use it, not for someone who has just installed it
[02:07] <willvdl> that's what About docs are for
[02:07] <RichEd> okay
[02:08] <willvdl> OK
[02:08] <willvdl> I'll look into splitting up docs for different audiences
[02:09] <willvdl> and how to manage the common info
[02:09] <willvdl> The Handbook audience is then who specifically?
[02:09] <ogra> admins, teachers, users
[02:09] <willvdl> or is it more like the Ubuntu Book, good for everyone
[02:10] <RichEd> Hand Book is all Hands On people
[02:10] <ogra> (currently rather admins and administrating teachers afaik)
[02:10] <ogra> (but target should be all three)
[02:10] <willvdl> So again, we could (if clever about it) intelligently merge and copy Handbook info into other docs
[02:10] <RichEd> It may break in the long term into: Handbook - for Admin / Handbook for Teachers Users
[02:11] <ogra> right
[02:11] <RichEd> (Admins spend more time on confirm, Users on applications)
[02:11] <willvdl> That would be a packaging thing again
[02:11] <RichEd> *config
[02:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> gnight all
[02:11] <willvdl> Kamping_Kaiser, gnight
[02:11] <RichEd> night Kamping_Kaiser :) chat soon
[02:11] <ogra> gnight Kamping_Kaiser
[02:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> see you tehn RichEd :)
[02:12] <willvdl> The trick is to drive contributions to all supported versions of the docs...
[02:13] <ogra> well, released versions of the software wont change much
[02:13] <willvdl> agreed, but still need to finish some docs
[02:13] <ogra> so there is no real need for updates on the tech front (beyond enhancements)
[02:14] <willvdl> or "known bug" fixes, errata updates etc
[02:14] <willvdl> Moving onto the wiki and info in it?
[02:15] <ogra> right, then ou just need to provide one url for all versions
[02:15] <willvdl> woot, just in time!
[02:15] <RichEd> hey highvoltage :)
[02:15] <willvdl> ogra, help.u.c
[02:15] <ogra> so you can have perversion subpages on the wiki
[02:15] <ogra> ouch
[02:15] <ogra> that should have been per-version
[02:16] <highvoltage> hi RichEd, sorry, was reading scrollback
[02:16] <ogra> i'm no friend of h.u.c at all ...
[02:16] <RichEd> np
[02:16] <ogra> but if its unavoidable then h.u.c
[02:16] <willvdl> ogra, it does host the stable docs...
[02:16] <highvoltage> ogra: heh, I was just telling willvdl about that earlier
[02:16] <willvdl> making it much easier to maintain then the wiki
[02:17] <ogra> willvdl, yeah, and makes quick support impossible if you have the wiki urls stored ...
[02:17] <willvdl> ah, see what you mean
[02:17] <ogra> the delay through the forwarding isnt really helpful :)
[02:17] <willvdl> must be a clever way round that
[02:18] <ogra> yes, only store the new urls ... but the you miss out the new wiki docs
[02:18] <willvdl> well, what are the new wiki docs in this case?
[02:18] <ogra> its something that should be overthought again by a good documentation person imho
[02:19] <willvdl> we'll soo what the doc team has to say
[02:19] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins would be something new
[02:20] <ogra> it should stay on the wiki so people can change it easily and contribute to it
[02:20] <willvdl> OK, or even the capturing of forum info into community doc wiki
[02:20] <willvdl> the ubuntu doc team has a process around that. need to study in detail
[02:21] <RichEd> willvdl: pips1 and i were talking about forum data, and moving good info into wiki
[02:21] <ogra> that will be a lot of work, you will need reviewers
[02:21] <RichEd> we will work on some sort of procedure, because this is a good place for a new community volunteer to help
[02:21] <willvdl> RichEd, have a look at the Doc Proj, they have a page up on how they plan to do that
[02:22] <willvdl> ogra, I guess I'm only really worried about getting rid of deprecated or outdated wiki pages
[02:22] <RichEd> Great. I mean there are people who are keen to help, but say "I am not that technical" ... so they can at least spot a solution, and tidy the thread into a doc as a way to start.
[02:22] <ogra> no
[02:22] <RichEd> ??
[02:22] <jsgotangco> hey
[02:22] <ogra> thats a typical prob with the forums ...
[02:22] <RichEd> hey jsgotangco
[02:23] <RichEd> explain ogra ?
[02:23] <willvdl> jsgotangco, hey
[02:23] <ogra> instead of filing bugs and helping in solving them there are workarounds provided in a forum thread instead of getting people to use maolne
[02:23] <ogra> so we'll use valuable info, as well as the users probably loose the advised way to work around a bug
[02:24] <RichEd> ogra: I see that there would be moderators in between ...
[02:24] <ogra> technical probs should all be handled via bugs (even workarounds for them)
[02:24] <ogra> who would be that ? you need a decent technical background
[02:24] <willvdl> ogra, I guess that is the key probelm in oderating a forum (or even a list)
[02:25] <ogra> currently i rather see all tech people as devs than as reviewers ;)
[02:25] <RichEd> So if a user problem crops up in the forum, and some communtiy person explains a solution to a user, then IF it is a good solution and approved, then we make it a wiki page. And then the thread on the forums says: See wiki link for approved solution.
[02:25] <ogra> that still keeps the bug away from the developers attention, so it might never be fixed
[02:26] <ogra> bugs should really all go into the bugtracker and be discussed there
[02:26] <RichEd> That should be part of the approval process. File bug.
[02:26] <willvdl> RichEd, it does also depend on what is being fixed
[02:26] <ogra> right ;)
[02:26] <RichEd> Not necesaerily a fix, it could just be advice on how to use something that is working !
[02:26] <ogra> we have many open bugs but we also have many bad advises to work around them ;)
[02:26] <RichEd> *neccessarily
[02:26] <willvdl> It's just a process question really. Will check with Doc Proj about this
[02:27] <ogra> in malone you usually have at least one responsible person for development or packaging subscribed
[02:28] <RichEd> If we have the same user question popping up often in forums or #edubuntu, then even if we have documented help, that means people are not finding it easily. Hence move to a FAQ page with more visibility.
[02:28] <ogra> ++
[02:28] <RichEd> That's the sort of thinking I mean ... not Fixing Bugs :)
[02:28] <willvdl> RichEd, or LaunchPad Answers
[02:28] <RichEd> Yep, as long as it is easy to find for the newbie ! and an unregistered nebie as wel !
[02:29] <RichEd> *newbie
[02:29] <ogra> FAQ is always good ...
[02:29] <willvdl> any moderated knowledge base is good
[02:30] <juliux> re
[02:30] <ogra> right, despite the fact that you need knoledgeable moderators to have a good quality
[02:30] <willvdl> but there is still a great need for wikis and the like...as ogra said, helps in devel
[02:30] <willvdl> collaboration rather
[02:30] <ogra> and thats wheer we're lacking atm at least on the tech side ...
[02:31] <willvdl> ogra, which sections specifically?
[02:31] <ogra> every dev should do development as first prio atm ... we'll need the bridge people who understand the tech issues but are no coders
[02:31] <willvdl> meaning, ubuntu related stuff can be handled by the larger ubunut community
[02:32] <willvdl> but the edubuntu specific stuff has been mainly around LTSP
[02:32] <RichEd> as we expand out community and audience, we shold have more people at various levels ... depending in the skill of the volunteer, we need to find a good fit for them to feel productive. they can always advance towards dev as their confidence and skills levels grow.
[02:32] <juliux> dont forget for some people think there english is to bad to write bugreports
[02:32] <ogra> it will be mainy around educational software and enterprise techniques in the future
[02:32] <ogra> *mainly
[02:32] <RichEd> e.g for Edulinux, ther will be others helping with Training Manuals ... that can be harnessed for our wiki pages.
[02:32] <RichEd> *there
[02:33] <ogra> willvdl, LTSP will only be one small aspect in the future ...
[02:33] <willvdl> the future, sure, but for now...
[02:33] <ogra> the two CD release opens a ton of new opporunities
[02:34] <ogra> well, i'm taking about feisty
[02:34] <willvdl> ogra, agreed
[02:34] <willvdl> see where this is going
[02:34] <willvdl> anyhoo, back to the wiki... :)
[02:34] <ogra> we'll target more than the classroom, feisty will be a big chnge in all areas
[02:35] <ogra> so we should be prepared for that on the doc side
[02:36] <ogra> especially if we dont ship the second CD it will need a good amount of extra docs here
[02:36] <willvdl> agreed
[02:36] <willvdl> Priority is to get DApper 100% up-t-date
[02:37] <ogra> ugh
[02:37] <willvdl> The wiki needs housekeeping though
[02:38] <willvdl> I get what ogra says about linking from the wiki to "official" doc sections
[02:38] <ogra> dapper misses a lot of features and automatisms  ... thats a huge effort
[02:38] <ogra> (LTSP wise)
[02:39] <willvdl> we also need to structure the wiki around the different versions better
[02:40] <willvdl> at the moment one is not always quite sure which version a specific section is referring to
[02:40] <RichEd> willvdl: re that structure comment, matt nuzum will give us the "next version of his www structure" soon ... we'll see how we can work with that
[02:41] <willvdl> great.
[02:41] <RichEd> he is revising the www.ubuntu and wiki.ubuntu ... and what CMS to use
[02:42] <RichEd> The requirement we have = "which version" is broader as we get into *ubuntu and "which variant"
[02:42] <RichEd> Not only for us in education, but *buntu support in general for Matt
[02:42] <willvdl> cool
[02:44] <willvdl> I'll keep specifics around sections and chapters and docs in a sidebar
[02:44] <willvdl> Lastly, on docs:
[02:45] <willvdl> just want ot get our meeting logs etc. tracked with/like the other teams
[02:45] <highvoltage> gtg, sorry will catch up on logs later
[02:45] <willvdl> seems there is some recent work/devel going on there
[02:45] <RichEd> bye highvoltage
[02:45] <willvdl> ciao boet
[02:46] <highvoltage> bye RichEd and willvdl
[02:46] <willvdl> and still need to look into marketing (docs, materials, plans etc)
[02:46] <RichEd> willvdl: good point ... this is an area we should formalise ... especially actions assigned during meetings
[02:46] <willvdl> time has not allowed that and Burgundavia wants to chat first too
[02:48] <RichEd> okie ... we're getting close to time ... so any point in discussing : Art Work
[02:48] <RichEd> (cbx33 is not here)
[02:48] <jsgotangco> i just want to take this chance
[02:48] <jsgotangco> while im here
[02:49] <jsgotangco> that i am resigning my position in the council
[02:49] <willvdl> urk
[02:49] <jsgotangco> well i cannot say, my work has eaten up any time i can give for edubuntu
[02:49] <ogra> ouch
[02:50] <RichEd> :(
[02:50] <juliux> :(
[02:50] <ogra> will be very very hard to find someone to take that place :(
[02:52] <jsgotangco> im sorry i thought it was possible to balance things out but a lot of stuff happened in such a short time
[02:52] <RichEd> jsgotangco: is it good for you at least ? productive ? enjoyable ?
[02:52] <jsgotangco> well i cannot say its enjoyable at the moment
[02:52] <jsgotangco> but i think its my chance now to have at least a stable job
[02:54] <willvdl> jsgotangco ++ cheer cheer
[02:54] <willvdl> seriously, all the best in where ever it takes you
[02:55] <ogra> ++
[02:57] <jsgotangco> well all i can say that being part of the project did open up avenues for me, unexpectedly, although I did have bigger aspirations but didn't happen
[02:57] <willvdl> RichEd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ausimage  <-- new developments
[02:57] <RichEd> jsgotangco: time will tell ... our paths are sure to be be intertwined
[02:57] <jsgotangco> and ive seen edubuntu start from a small bof in UDU
[02:57] <RichEd> thanks willvdl
[02:57] <willvdl> jsgotangco, your name is everywhere in edubuntu
[02:58] <RichEd> we're almost at end of meeting time ... so just a short comment from me before we wrap
[02:58] <jsgotangco> well i just want to be honest now that i actually moved my computers to another OS except one pc i use everyday and its still runing edubuntu
[02:58] <jsgotangco> and i'll still watch the project and be involved when i can
[02:58] <willvdl> :)
[02:59] <RichEd> pips1 and I spent 2 days at UDS looking at structure for our (user and teacher) community site ... I will document this into a wiki page during the next week or so.
[03:00] <RichEd> We are open to suggestion and comments, so once i have the wiki page up, we can discuss in this meeting, or convene antother for those who are interested.
[03:00] <jsgotangco> and the project i am involved with at work will still be based in edubuntu so i will still be pretty much in the loop whenever possible
[03:00] <RichEd> Main goals of the community site:
[03:00] <RichEd> #1 make existing users happier
[03:01] <RichEd> #2 recruit more users
[03:01] <RichEd> #3 recruit more volunteers
[03:01] <RichEd> ... that's all I wanted to say for today.
[03:02] <willvdl> cool. look forward to it
[03:02] <ogra> ++ for #3
[03:03] <willvdl> #4 clone some ogras
[03:03] <ogra> that should be covered by #3 ;)
[03:03] <willvdl> (we got some hair samples at UDS)
[03:03] <ogra> haha
[03:03] <willvdl> It was California after all
[03:03] <RichEd> willvdl: we'd need to clone them fully grown !
[03:04] <willvdl> groth hormone
[03:04] <willvdl> growth rather
[03:04] <RichEd> willvdl: that sounded like a litp: did you hear that "groth hormone" :)
[03:04] <RichEd> *lithp
[03:05] <RichEd> ogra you okay to wrap up ?
[03:05] <RichEd> anthing else ?
[03:05] <willvdl> gwoth howmoan
[03:05] <ogra> nothing from my side
[03:05] <jsgotangco> thanks everyone
[03:05] <ogra> thanks :)
[03:05] <RichEd> okay thanks all ... sorry we were so scarce with the conferences, but back at home now
[03:05] <willvdl> thanks all, been very helpful for me!
[03:06] <RichEd> so we'll see you next week in December ... same place 12 hours later in the day
[03:06] <RichEd> going once
[03:06] <RichEd> going twice ...
[03:06] <willvdl> ding ding ding
[03:06] <RichEd> Done. Thanks. Bye.
[03:06] <ogra> bye :)
[03:07] <willvdl> ciao
[05:13] <lguerra> @schedule bogota
[05:13] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota:
[05:43] <cbx33> @schedule
[05:43] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC:
[05:43] <cbx33> soemthing broken?
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> cbx33: I don't think so.
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> To my knowledge there are no meetings scheduled.
[05:44] <cbx33> it's wednesday
[05:45] <cbx33> pah it's already gone
[05:45] <cbx33> taht's why it's not showing up
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> yep
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> the bot should have a better message than null though
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> Seveas: ping
[06:03] <Spec> why? :-/
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> Just to be less confusing I'd think
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> Something like Schedule for Etc/UTC: No meetings scheduled
[06:05] <Adri2000> anyway there is a devel meeting tomorrow :p
[06:06] <tonyyarusso> Adri2000: Want to contact the authorities to get it on the list?
[06:07] <Adri2000> it would be better :)
[06:07] <Adri2000> but I don't know who are the authorities for that
[06:07] <Adri2000> fridge people?
[06:08] <tonyyarusso> I believe that's correct
[06:34] <gnomefreak> the bot should have next meeting (if its reading off the fridge correctly) next meeting is devel 2100 on 30th
[06:34] <gnomefreak> @now new_tork
[06:34] <gnomefreak> @now new_york
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Current time in America/New_York: November 29 2006, 12:34:42 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 1 day
[06:35] <tonyyarusso> gnomefreak: Good now.
[06:35] <gnomefreak> it needed to update
[06:35] <tonyyarusso> Oh - scheduled syncing?
[06:36] <gnomefreak> yes
[06:37] <tonyyarusso> Gotcha
[06:42] <Adri2000> still no CC :/
[06:42] <tonyyarusso> not yet
[06:43] <tonyyarusso> I really wish those were scheduled so that the next one was listed by the end of each meeting if not before.
[06:44] <gnomefreak> the issue we ran into was UDS thats why its taken so long
[06:44] <Adri2000> usually it's every 2 weeks I believe, but the last one was 6 weeks ago
[06:44] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, UDS plus restructuring of who's on the CC I think
[06:45] <gnomefreak> i think its at the point we know who the new members are just waiting for the finishing touches. they were supposed to vote on the new members at UDS
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> Oh
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> I'm hoping to add myself to the list, but only if I can make the time, which we don't know yet.
[06:45] <gnomefreak> i know we lost one CC memeber but i heard we lost a second also
[06:46] <tonyyarusso> How come?
[06:47] <gnomefreak> time was up i think
[06:47] <tonyyarusso> ah
[06:47] <gnomefreak> afaik the CC members are also on timed seats as membership is
[06:48] <tonyyarusso> Sounds right
[06:48] <tonyyarusso> hehe - it makes me nervous that Mark is /away with 12 minutes before he's up
[06:49] <gnomefreak> i would ping jono when hes free and ask him whats up with the CC he should be looking into next meeting in the next week or so
[06:49] <tonyyarusso> That's what he said in his previous session - will bring it up I think after he's done with his Q/A
[06:49] <gnomefreak> he will make it if not on time a couple of minutes late (hes allowed to) ;)
[06:50] <gnomefreak> but i dont htink hes gonna get much done this week on it due to the meetings this week  and herd1 release tomorrow
[06:50] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, three minutes in or so seems to be his style, minimum.
[10:39] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[10:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 30 Nov 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Dec 21:00: Edubuntu | 07 Dec 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Dec 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 21:00: Edubuntu
[10:45] <Seveas> @schedule
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Nov 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 06 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 07 Dec 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Dec 12:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu