/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/12/01/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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geserkeescook: now the bug looks a little bit strange?  should it also affect gnupg2 till it fixed there also?12:17
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keescookgeser: yup, I'll get it in there.  sorry for my mix up.  :)12:17
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LaserJockanybody know what the process for setting the "Approver" on a spec is?12:52
ajmitchI think generally you don't set people as approver, unless you had their permission12:59
ajmitchmdz told me earlier that approvals should be TB at the moment12:59
LaserJockbut how do they get set?12:59
LaserJockI have a spec that is pending approval with no approver set12:59
ajmitchsomeone else sets them12:59
ajmitchor should12:59
LaserJockI just want to make sure I didn't miss something12:59
ajmitchif a TB member is still alive/awake, you could ask them01:00
mdzLaserJock: they default to being unset, and are only set if there is someone particularly paying attention to the spec01:02
mdzyou can set the approver to techboard01:02
LaserJockok01:02
LaserJockjust wanted to make sure I had all my ducks in a row01:02
ajmitchsorry if I gave any wrong info there :)01:02
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LaserJockok, I put TB as approver just to ease my mind ;-)01:05
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keescookWhoa.  I'm the drafter for Driver Repositories??01:12
LaserJockkeescook: don't you hate it when that happens ;-)01:14
ajmitchlucky chap01:14
keescookUhm... what's the right thing to do here?  I have no idea what this spec is.01:14
ajmitchyou didn't attend any BOF on it?01:14
keescooknope.01:15
mdzkeescook: if it was discussed at UDS, it would have appeared on the schedule with your name on it01:15
mdzif it wasn't, then go back through your mail, find out who set that field, and ask them what's up01:15
keescookmdz: no, I was just marked as drafter in the last 10 minutes...01:15
keescookyup, gonna do that01:15
keescookyeah, someone made me drafter for 3 specs just now.  wild01:16
keescookthey weren't at uds.01:17
Adri2000ahh TB is back, what about CC mdz?01:17
mdzI am not a member of the CC01:17
ajmitchI think it could be random community spec submissions01:17
mdzkeescook: you have a secret admirer01:17
LaserJockheh01:17
keescookmdz: yay!  only a few months until feb01:18
ajmitchwith holidays & everything, about 2 months till freeze :)01:18
LaserJockholidays?!?01:18
ajmitchapparantly some people stop working01:19
LaserJockthose are what I like to call "Uninterupted Ubuntu-holic Joy Time"01:19
ajmitchyou're far too happy about that01:19
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LaserJockajmitch: I have to or else I will spiral down into that pit of cyncism call bhale ;-)01:20
ajmitchhey now, he's perfectly reasonable01:21
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alex-weejany ALSA-like people wanna help me debug a buggy sound driver?01:42
alex-weejalsa randomly can't open on my card01:42
alex-weejoss works fine01:42
alex-weejafter using flash player01:42
alex-weejno amount of sound module unloading/reloading is fixing it01:42
crimsundmesg, /proc/interrupts, /proc/asound/oss/sndstat spew pastebinned.01:43
alex-weejman pastebin is SLOW these days01:44
Lathiattry a different pastebin?01:44
alex-weejhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/FWOrAN41.html01:44
alex-weejcat /proc/interrupts: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/gJPevy53.html01:45
crimsunam I missing something, or is the first really only 6 lines?01:45
alex-weejdo you want the whole log?01:45
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crimsunyes, please. Those 6 lines are useless.01:45
alex-weejhttp://www.rafb.net/paste/results/GR50N428.html01:46
alex-weejok01:46
alex-weej^^01:46
alex-weejthe faulty card is the ice171201:46
alex-weejthe M-Audio Audiophile 249601:46
alex-weejsndstat: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/JLw93U98.html01:48
crimsunis this with flash 7.0.68 or 9.0.21.78?01:48
alex-weej901:48
alex-weejannoying thing is, flash can still use the card01:48
alex-weejnothing else can01:48
alex-weej(cept OSS)01:49
alex-weej(i'm assuming flash is using ALSA here)01:49
crimsunis ice1712 now index 0 or 1?01:49
crimsun(you didn't mention [un] loading emu10k1)01:49
alex-weeji didn't did i?01:50
alex-weejm2496 is still #001:50
alex-weejaccording to aplay -l01:50
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crimsunafter closing whatever browsers are open, do concurrent instances of ``aplay -Dplughw:0 /usr/share/sounds/startup.wav'' fail?01:51
crimsun(fail-> block, appear to play but remain inaudible, etc.)01:52
alex-weejcrimsun: um01:52
alex-weejaplay -Dplughw:0 works fine01:52
alex-weejbut aplay -Ddefault fails01:52
alex-weejubuntu@ubuntu:~/Desktop$ aplay -Ddefault test.wav 01:52
alex-weejALSA lib pcm_direct.c:224:(make_local_socket) connect failed: /tmp/alsa-dmix-29505-1164922756-617983: No such file or directory01:52
alex-weejALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:894:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to connect client01:52
alex-weejaplay: main:547: audio open error: No such file or directory01:52
crimsunalsa-lib, great01:53
alex-weejah01:53
alex-weeji used to have this occasionally with my disk boot01:53
alex-weej(i'm on a live cd boot atm thanks to failure of said disk)01:53
crimsunkill $(lsof -t /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*) && sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}' |sort -r) && sudo modprobe snd-ice1712 && sudo modprobe snd-emu10k101:54
alex-weejFATAL: Module snd_util_mem is in use.01:54
crimsunthere's no way around that one save to reboot.01:55
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alex-weejarse!01:55
alex-weejok if we can't fix it01:55
alex-weejcan we at least figure out what went wrong so i can file something?01:55
alex-weejor is it a mystery?01:55
alex-weejseems the dmix socket has just gone kapooft01:55
crimsungive me sec to find the commits that fixed it.01:56
alex-weejoh it's fixed?!01:56
crimsuna sec, even01:56
alex-weejok01:57
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crimsunalex-weej: dapper, edgy, or feisty?02:01
alex-weejedgy02:02
crimsunedgy lacks both the -driver-side disconnect fixes (in 13) and -lib-side's ipc fixes (post-13, in hg)02:04
crimsunI'd be interested in seeing if current feisty + -lib hg can reproduce it02:04
alex-weeji see02:11
alex-weejis feisty even usable yet?02:11
crimsunfor some small population, yes. Maybe wait for Herd 1?02:12
infinityIt's not going to be magically more usable in a day. :)02:13
alex-weejlol02:14
alex-weeji'll get it installed to do some hacking on it when i get my new disk02:16
alex-weejcheers for the help, crimsun02:16
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alex-weeji'll let you know if it happens on feisty02:16
crimsunexcellent, thank you.02:16
zulBenC: do you still want the the paravirt xen crack in ubuntu or how is that going to work 02:23
ajmitchwill it land in 2.6.20 upstream?02:24
zulbits of it02:25
bhaleLaserJock: thats not nice02:32
bhaleLaserJock: about all I can say :)02:33
ajmitchhello bhale 02:33
bhalehi02:33
jdubah, the development branch... new kernels and reboots02:33
=== bhale hugs jdub
jdubmorning bhale :)02:34
bhaleLaserJock: I have been totally nice all day and you know it02:34
bhalejdub: dude, new beagle rocks.02:36
jdubyeah?02:36
bhaleyeah.02:36
bhalejoe has been sounding off on LP bugs even02:36
jdubbonus.02:36
LaserJockbhale: I was so pleasently suprised you came to my open week session02:39
LaserJockand even moderated for me :-)02:39
bhalemy pleasure, it was a good one02:39
LaserJockthanks, hope people got something out of it02:40
bhaleI dont know if you know, but I wrote the Ubuntu Packaging Guide spec02:40
LaserJockreally?02:40
bhalereally.02:40
bhalewhiprush might have typed it02:40
LaserJockI didn't know that02:40
bhaleI proposed it02:40
bhaleand here you are.02:40
bhaleROCK OUT.02:40
bhale(someone at the session, Ankur, asked to run with it, but disappeared)02:41
bhale(enter you)02:41
LaserJockyeah, I picked up with what Ankur did02:41
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bhalejdub: The (american) Office this week was written by the creators of the British show02:53
bhalejdub: not fantastic, though02:54
LaserJockreally? I'm taping it02:54
bhalesorry.02:54
LaserJocknp, I'll watch it anyway02:54
bhaleyeah its good just not a zinger02:54
bhalejdub hates it02:54
LaserJockat least I hope I'm taping02:55
LaserJock1st time I've ever tried using a VCR for taping TV02:55
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keescookLaserJock: VHS or betamax?  ;)02:56
LaserJockVHS of course, I'm not that bad02:56
keescookI know, I'm just giving you a hard time.  :)  I've got a friend with an HDTV that spends all kinds of time trying to convince me I'm in the darkages.  :)02:57
LaserJockbut of course next month I'll have to burn it to blueray (whatever that is) ;-)02:57
keescookhehe02:57
elkbuntuLaserJock, you can get the vcr to at least pretend to tape things? you're one up on me ;)02:59
LaserJockwell, first of this morning I had to set the clock02:59
LaserJockand then I did remember to put a blank tape in02:59
LaserJockalmost forgot that part ;-)02:59
elkbuntubeen there, done that03:00
ajmitchkeescook: I saw 1 or two of the specs where you got assigned as drafter on the forums, if you want to go & educate the authors :)03:02
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keescookajmitch: yes, please.  why would they think random people, much less me, should be doing drafting on things they never heard of?  weird.03:12
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realistIf you even own a TV, you're one up on me...03:13
realistkeescook: any chance of seeing a tzdata update within the next two days? ;-)03:14
ajmitchkeescook: 03:14
ajmitchhttp://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=31005803:14
jdubbhale: i don't mind the US version03:15
keescookrealist: I talked to another person about that too; you'll need to talk to mdz about doing a shortened release of the tzdata.  :(03:15
jdubbhale: i love steve carrell03:15
jdongajmitch: hehe, we've been joking a bit about that too :)03:15
bhalejdub: oh really? i seemed to remember you saying otherwise03:15
jdubit's not as good03:15
ajmitchjdong: I know I wouldn't want a random person assigning me work03:15
jdubbut fun to watch, lamost entirely for the differences in humour03:15
jdubi'm glad it's not a total disaster though03:16
keescookajmitch: thanks, I'll see if I can convince them not to do that.  :)03:16
realistkeescook: it's been assigned to pitti, should I presume they will be bringing it up with mdz?03:16
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keescookrealist: pitti tends to do tzdata updates, but if you want it done in <2 weeks, you'll need to talk to mdz.  pitti is usually on irc in about 6 hours, though.03:17
LaserJockjdub: I like it, but I haven't seen the "real" version03:17
mdzrealist: I was the one who assigned it to pitti03:17
realistmdz, so we'll see an update in <2days ?03:18
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ajmitchrealist: perth dst?03:22
=== realist nods
mdzrealist: I am not offering a guarantee; I've asked pitti to look into it when he comes in03:22
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towsonu2003hi04:19
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fabbionemorning05:37
ajmitchmorning fabbione 05:37
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Burgundaviaok, stuck. Aside from GNOME 2.17 and the new kernel, what else has been changed in Feisty that makes it interesting to end users?05:48
jdubFREEDOM.05:55
Burgundaviaright05:55
jdubwait, no, that's coming in the next release.05:55
Burgundaviathat might not be construed as a "feature"05:55
jdubfreedom is megapixel.05:55
Burgundaviathe loss of it, rather05:55
jdubare you looking for features or benefits? :)05:55
Burgundaviagiven this is the Herd 1 announcement, is is largely features driven05:56
jdubi'm trying to think what's leapt out at me in the logs05:59
infinityNew glibc, though I doubt "end users" care.05:59
Burgundaviadoes it affect developers?05:59
infinityMostly, it's just "lots of shiny new syncs from Debian, plus an updated toolchain, kernel, and GNOME"05:59
Burgundaviacause some of this is also telling developers what is coming05:59
infinityWell, it affects developers that want to use shiny new glibc features, sure.06:00
_ionStartup based on upstart jobs!06:01
orkidhehey, someone lef the filenames at edgy!06:01
Burgundaviais glibc consider part of the toolchain?06:01
orkidleft*06:01
_ionOh, "*has* been". Sorry.06:01
Burgundavia_ion: has that landed yet?06:01
jdubaccording to launchpad, fisty is frozen06:01
Burgundaviayep, for Herd 1 release06:01
jdubahr06:01
jdubzis makes ze sense06:02
infinityBurgundavia: We consider it part of the toolchain, due to our bootstrap order.  Other opinions may vary. :)06:02
infinityBurgundavia: We lump the kernel in there too, after all.06:02
jdubBurgundavia: oh, how about the new cd burning stack?06:02
orkidps. cdimage.ubuntu.com daily snapshot image files still say 'edgy' although page heading is feisty...06:02
Burgundaviainfinity: can you pm me three or four sentences on the new stuff?06:02
Burgundaviajdub: wodim for cdrecord? how does that really change things?06:03
jdubBurgundavia: about as much as prozac changes things06:03
jdongfisty... why does that sound like a bad x-rated.... never mind06:03
infinityBurgundavia: Best to ask jbailey for copy on the new glibc.  I haven't pored over the "what's new, and why do you care" stuff, much, I care more that it remains backward compatible and continues to work. :)06:03
Burgundaviajdong: bad gutter06:03
Burgundaviaright, ok06:03
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fabbioneBurgundavia: there is a glibc changelog in the package if you really want to dig in under the hood06:05
Burgundaviafabbione: ugh. No thanks. I want the 3 sentences for developers and end users06:05
fabbionebut probably the most significant change is the hash thingy. hell.. what's it's name...06:05
fabbionewell grep "hash" in the build log06:06
jdongfabbione: DT_GNU_HASH?06:06
fabbionejdong: that one06:06
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jdongthe thing that works miracles on KDE performance :)06:06
fabbioneand OOo06:06
Burgundaviaright, lovely06:06
jdongat least I _think_ that's why FC6's KDE is so blazing fast06:06
jdongdoes it still bloat binaries with like a 2MB hashing field, or has that been long fixed?06:07
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fabbionejdong: it's enabled by default and nobody noticed any bloat06:12
fabbioneit's done at glibc level06:13
fabbioneso it's should be transparent afaik06:13
jdongfabbione: ok, cool. There was a gentoo blogpost about how DT_GNU_HASH makes the hash section gigantic compared to the old hash06:13
jdong(like 2.1MB for some KDE apps?!)06:13
fabbionejdong: dunno... i have no data to prove either that i am right or wrong06:14
fabbionea debdiff on some kde package could show that06:14
jdongor just checking the size of say kdebase on edgy vs feisty...06:14
Burgundaviahmm, anybody got any good guesses on stuff that will land in Herd 2?06:15
infinityBurgundavia: Some random feature specs, some other stuff, and some things?06:15
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jdongautomatix!06:16
infinityWe don't have Herd 2 scheduled, so who knows.06:16
infinityIt should be vaguely around the ImportFreeze, though, so likely just "more new packages".06:16
infinityMost spec work should land after that.06:16
Burgundaviayep06:17
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boitonoI am not a developer nor do I wish to be but I think I have found the cause of bug #47768, it seems that udev does not have the persistent storage rules loaded into the generic kernel's initrd.  They are however present in the 386 variant of the kernel which boots just fine on my system.  the file should exist under /etc/udev/rules.d/.  Since the kernel is passed only a UUID during boot I believe this is necessary but as far as wh06:34
UbugtuMalone bug 47768 in initramfs-tools "Mount Root Files System Failed" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4776806:34
infinityboitono: Please follow up to the bug with your findings, telling us on IRC will just lead to your comments getting lost in the backscroll.06:35
boitonoI am not sure on the validity of the findings, are the UUIDs found in grub's menu.lst and udev persistent storage related?06:36
infinityShould be.06:37
boitonowould there be a valid reason for leaving them out in an initrd?06:38
infinitymkdir -p ${DESTDIR}/etc/udev/rules.d06:39
infinityfor rules in 00-init.rules 05-options.rules 20-names.rules 65-persistent-storage.rules 90-modprobe.r06:39
infinityules; do cp -p /etc/udev/rules.d/$rules ${DESTDIR}/etc/udev/rules.d06:39
infinitydone06:39
infinityAccording to that, it should be copied into the initrd.06:39
boitonook then, when I "get around to it" I'll post something on the bug tracker, it's been open since may so I don't think there's much rush ;-)06:41
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boitonoinfinity: where did you find those segments of code?06:44
infinityboitono: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/udev06:45
boitonowhere can I find the script that created the initrd that lives in the ubuntu repository?06:47
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infinityboitono: There is no initrd in the repository, it's generated on your system.06:49
boitonoinfinity: Really? when ever I install new copy of ubuntu the initrd is automatically generated on my PC?06:50
infinityYes.06:51
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infinityelkbuntu: I could use a few dozen.07:03
elkbuntuhehe07:03
towsonu2003anyone awake at ubuntu-bugs? ;)07:05
mneptononly the hippies.07:06
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towsonu2003lol07:06
towsonu2003I'll be bold enough to ask it here than: how do you debug program hangs? if it were a crash, you'd probably use gdb -what to use for hangs?07:07
boitonoinfinity: FYI making a new initrd seems to have done the trick, what is causing the problem is still a mystery to me07:07
boitonoI'll file something on the ubuntu bug tracker thingy some time next week when I get a chance but if someone wants to beat me to the punch by all means07:08
infinitytowsonu2003: Attach strace to it and see what it's up to.07:09
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ademandoko: a moment of your time?07:09
towsonu2003infinity, would that be enough? I doubt I will be able to reproduce the hang once I reboot or something. So I wanna put every bi of info I can provide in the bug report :)07:11
infinitytowsonu2003: It's a start, anyway.07:11
towsonu2003infinity, okay thanks :)07:12
dokoademan: about what?07:14
ademandoko: well i sent you an email, which i got from launchpad, but i'm having major problems with the eclipse-cdt07:14
ademanthe current versions of the eclipse-cdt and eclipse in the repositories don't work together07:15
ademanas a result i've been trying to package the eclipse-cdt for the past week07:15
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ademanbut unfortunately not only is this my first package, but it's a java package, and i just CAN'T get it to work07:15
ademanso my first question is: where did you get the eclipse source code from? because the sdk supposedly contains the source code, but it doesn't look anything like the source tree in the current package...07:16
ademanand i suppose i didn't have a second question, just any tips or tricks, because someone in #ubuntu-motu said you were a master of java packages07:18
Treenaksademan: apt-get source eclipse07:20
Treenaksshould work07:20
ademanTreenaks: well i meant where did he obtain the upstream source07:21
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Treenaksademan: look in debian/copyright in the source package07:23
ademanalright i'll check that out07:24
ademanthanks07:24
dokoademan: cdt needs to be updated, which is not yet done (and I won't have time to do it)07:26
ademandoko: right, i'm attempting to do it but failing miserably07:27
ademanso i was hoping you might have some words of wisdom for packaging it, since i understand you're the eclipse package maintainer07:33
ademanand i assume the eclipse-cdt is distributed in similar ways07:33
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BurgundaviaMithrandir: you awake yet?07:39
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dholbachgood morning07:56
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Burgundaviamorning dholbach08:01
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sladenmumblemumblemorning08:12
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ademandoko: so is there any sort of hint you might be able to give me?  More specifically where to get the correct source, the SDK download from the eclipse website apparently contains source, but its split up in an extremely wierd fashion08:14
dokoademan: sorry, no. I never worked on -cdt myself08:15
ademanhrm ok, well i guess i'll just continue to butt my head up against the wall, if you think of something i'll be lurking08:16
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Mithrandircjwatson: thanks08:33
MithrandirBurgundavia: yes08:33
BurgundaviaMithrandir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd1 <-- still last edits pending08:33
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MithrandirBurgundavia: yay, thanks.08:38
Burgundaviano worries08:39
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lucashello08:57
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siretarthi lucas 09:01
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BurgundaviaMithrandir: page is basically done. Needs to be move to the website upon launch of Herd 1. Is that likely in the next 9 hours?09:06
MithrandirBurgundavia: I hope so, yes, but I can deal with it if you want to go to bed.09:08
Burgundaviaok, thanks09:08
Burgundaviamdke might be able to help you as well09:08
mdkeI won't be around during 9-6 GMT because of work. But there are a good few with website access, newz is the best option, I guess09:10
Burgundaviamiddle of newz night09:10
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mdkehe gets up though09:11
MithrandirI'll deal with it one way or another, I'm sure it's not going to be a problem.09:11
Burgundaviayep09:12
Burgundaviamdke: how do I get access to the website image uploading palce?09:12
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mdkeBurgundavia: you can't, afaik. You can use attachments though09:13
Burgundaviamatt galvin got access somehow09:13
mdkeBurgundavia: you could ask him then09:14
BurgundaviaI will ask newz09:14
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Hobbseebecause it doesnt like you?10:11
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=== Mithrandir goes to cry in the corner.
MithrandirHobbsee: hiya, how's life?10:11
HobbseeMithrandir: not great at the moment, grandparent-- as of this afternoon10:12
Hobbseeapart from that, it's good :)10:12
cjwatsonoof10:12
Mithrandirouch. :-(10:12
Mithrandirsad to hear that.10:12
Hobbseerather10:13
HobbseeMithrandir: yourself?10:13
MithrandirHobbsee: I have this release which I'm trying to put out, but which keeps acting up, apart from that, I'm fine.10:13
Mithrandirpuppy's asleep, which is always good.10:13
HobbseeMithrandir: hehe - it's not working?10:13
StevenKMithrandir: How old is the puppy?10:14
MithrandirStevenK: ~3.5 months.10:14
cjwatsongar, ubiquity crash10:14
MithrandirI just accepted the new d-i which I forgot to do before crashing last night.10:14
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Hobbseehaha10:14
StevenKMithrandir: Ah, neat. My "puppy" is just over a year old now.10:14
cjwatsoncache._cache SHOULD be iterable, damnit10:15
StevenKcjwatson: I've found python-apt is well, crap.10:15
cjwatsonit mostly just needs more standard python protocol support10:15
cjwatsoninstead of things that look like dicts but aren't quite10:16
StevenKAnd not cause Python to segfault10:16
cjwatsonhaven't had that problem10:16
StevenKI was mightly suprised to get a bug against Linda saying "It segfaults" :-)10:16
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mvocjwatson: if you let me know what you need, I can add the required code to the python interface. "apt.Cache" is iteratable10:27
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cjwatsonmvo: 'Cache._cache["package"] ' works but but '"package" in _cache' does not. This is unintuitive10:36
cjwatsons/but //10:36
mvocjwatson: what feature do you need from cache._cache that is not available via "apt.Cache" ?10:37
mvo(not that apt.Cache has many features, but I wonder what should be added next :)10:37
cjwatsonmvo: furthermore you can get stuff from Cache.keys() for which Cache._cache[key]  fails; https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/6768910:38
UbugtuMalone bug 67689 in ubiquity "installer crashed" [Undecided,Fix released]  10:38
cjwatsonmvo: I'm using cache._depcache.IsInstBroken and I need an element of cache._cache to pass to that10:38
mvocjwatson: how do you install stuff? the pkg.markInstall() function should not allow a broken cache 10:40
cjwatsonmvo: I want to roll back gracefully if there are broken packages, by marking them keep rather than install again10:41
cjwatsonsee ubiquity/scripts/install.py10:41
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cjwatson(said rollback has been implemented since dapper)10:42
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mvocjwatson: hm, I checked out https://code.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubiquity/trunk and can't find ubiquity/scripts/install.py in there. do I have the wrong branch?10:51
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cjwatsonmvo: the initial "ubiquity/" was referring to the entire checkout11:01
cjwatsonmvo: so scripts/install.py11:01
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mvothanks11:03
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jonh_wendellmorning, pitti12:09
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pittihi jonh_wendell, how are you?12:12
jonh_wendellfine, pitti! i've seen you has activated back your lang repo12:12
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pittijonh_wendell: yeah, carlos pointed out that it was inactive, sorry for that12:14
pittijonh_wendell: simply forgot to turn it on again12:14
carlospitti: actually, jordi detected it ;-)12:14
jonh_wendellpitti, when will it available at edgy-updates?12:15
jordiyeah, yeah. I should have a statue in the Ubuntu Plaza. :)12:15
jonh_wendell:)12:16
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pittijonh_wendell: next Monday, according to schedule12:17
jonh_wendellpitti, really?12:18
pittifirst Monday every month12:18
jonh_wendelli must alert my translation team12:18
pittiwhip'em up :-p12:18
jonh_wendellit will be the first lang update in edgy, right?12:19
pittiyep12:20
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cjwatsonanyone with bright ideas about why feisty doesn't boot in vmware? can't find the root filesystem12:34
cjwatsonand indeed there's no /sys/block/hda12:34
cjwatsonhowever, installation works, so I'm assuming something's missing in the initramfs12:34
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cjwatsonMithrandir: ubiquity 1.3.1 uploaded: fixes a crash, an infinite loop, and a couple of minor issues; please accept12:39
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Mithrandir 7 files changed, 711 insertions(+), 2483315 deletions(-)12:41
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Mithrandircjwatson: that's a bunch of deletions..12:42
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Mithrandiroh, stopped shipping some .so-s in the source.12:44
jonh_wendellpitti, will translations made until sunday get in edgy-updates for monday?12:44
pittijonh_wendell: not sure about the mirror delay, but they might make it; carlos? ^12:45
cjwatsonMithrandir: stopped shipping a bunch of d-i/source/console-setup/ (again - it only crept back into 1.3.0 by accident)12:45
cjwatsonif you look at 1.3.0 you'll see a corresponding bunch of additions12:45
carlospitti: which package will you get?12:45
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carlosMonday's one?12:45
pitticarlos: yes12:45
carlosjonh_wendell: if everything goes well, anything done until Sunday at midnight (UTC time)12:46
jonh_wendellcarlos, thanks12:46
jonh_wendellpitti, thanks12:46
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cjwatsonHmm. Nothing obviously missing from the initramfs that should break feisty12:52
aileanhi Hobbsee, sabdfl 12:54
Hobbseehey ailean 12:54
=== Hobbsee waves to sabdfl, and idly wonders how the last couple of days of open day went
Hobbsees/open day/open week/12:54
sabdflhey guys12:55
sabdflopen week was awesome - thanks to jono and the discussion leaders12:55
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sabdflfresher's day today12:55
jono:)12:55
jonothe discussion leaders have done an excellent job, really have12:55
aileansabdfl, i've really enjoyed it - I reckon more things like this are the key to getting more community involvement. i didn't have a clue where to start (and still don't really) but at least I'm pointing in the right direction now :)12:56
aileanand the discussion leaders have been very prepared, friendly, and kept good control of the "classroom"12:56
aileanso thanks :)12:57
Hobbseejono: havent run into spammers yet, i assume?12:57
=== dholbach hugs Hobbsee
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jonoHobbsee, nope :)12:57
Hobbseejono: guess they exhausted themselves on the weekend when breaking freenode.  *crosses fingers*12:58
jonoailean, there will be more Open Weeks :)12:58
aileanto spam the classroom? not even microsoft would do that12:58
Hobbseeailean: it's been done before.12:58
aileangreat jono12:58
Hobbseeailean: botnets to close down all of freenode are also a fun tactic12:58
aileanHobbsee, that's a feat of pointlessness12:58
Hobbseeailean: true that.  i dont claim to know *why* they do that.  just that they do.12:58
aileanlol12:58
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aileanjono, how often are you thinking of having open days/weeks?01:00
jonoailean, that is not decided yet, I am going to think about it carefully01:00
bhalejono: now is a perfect time in the release cycle01:01
jonobhale, indeed01:01
aileanjono, well my tuppence is that early in development seems like a good time to have them, so they could be a few weeks after every release . . .01:01
jonoyeah01:01
bhalejono: would seem doable twice a year just this time, to me01:01
bhalea bit after summits01:01
jonoI am keen to gather feedback on this, so do let me know what you think people :)01:01
pittionce per cycle sounds about right to me01:02
pittimore would exhaust devs, fewer would make new contributors wait forever01:02
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aileani don't know if i agree. one schoolmaster teaching a load of pupils can achieve more than he/she can do on his/her own01:03
aileani wonder if a series of tutorial videos released on youtube would be a good idea...01:04
cjwatsonMithrandir: mind if I make initramfs-tools add mptspi again (maybe all of drivers/message/fusion, haven't checked yet)? regression from edgy, breaks vmware installs01:04
pittiailean: yes, but it just takes a while to collect experience and knowledge01:05
PecisDarbselmo: ping? :)01:05
Mithrandircjwatson: oh, point.  Please do.01:06
Mithrandir(please also accept it once you've uploaded)01:06
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cjwatsonMithrandir: can you stick a comment in the lp_publish crontab with your name when you disable the publisher?01:20
Chipzzhrrrrm01:20
ChipzzI was reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkRoaming01:20
Mithrandircjwatson: ack.01:21
Chipzzand I was wondering: is it possible to have dhclient *NOT* being run when switching to a specific network?01:21
cjwatsonta01:21
Mithrandir(done)01:22
Chipzzsituation here is like this: I have a wireless network, and the wired network is linked to the network of a friend of mine a couple of rooms further01:22
Chipzzmy (and his) routes and networks are routed over a cable01:23
Chipzzso I have connectivity with my ip-range on his wireless network01:23
Chipzzso all that would be needed would be to change essid, but not the actual IP01:23
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Chipzz(yes I know, this is a corner-case, but I'm just wondering if that would be possible)01:24
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pittiah-haaa01:44
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pittiogra: ping?01:46
cjwatsonMithrandir: initramfs-tools accepted, if you want to run the publisher again01:47
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Mithrandircjwatson: running01:51
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MithrandirHobbsee: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/frozen-bubble/+bug/72543 needs to grow a list of the Ubuntu changes, as per DeveloperResources.02:05
UbugtuMalone bug 72543 in frozen-bubble "Please sync 2.0.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  02:05
HobbseeMithrandir: i believe you're right.  02:06
HobbseeMithrandir: done, although i didnt write the original report.  it was just a change to the desktop file, taken into debian.02:09
MithrandirHobbsee: you confirmed it, though02:09
HobbseeMithrandir: that i did.02:09
Mithrandirand you subscribed ubuntu-archive which means you though it was complete.02:10
=== Hobbsee notes that she probably shouldnt have been doing any merges work in the last month or so
MithrandirHobbsee: pft, merges > studies.02:10
Hobbseeyou're right02:10
HobbseeMithrandir: yeah well.02:10
MithrandirHobbsee: no harm done.02:11
Hobbseeokay02:11
HobbseeMithrandir: i'll just leave the merges/syncs to everyone else?  that being said, i've figured out how to paste multiple lines in vi now, although i havent figured out a quick way.02:12
MithrandirHobbsee: there's a requestsync script, you're aware of that?02:12
HobbseeMithrandir: sure, i helped fix it.02:12
HobbseeMithrandir: that's what i use02:12
StevenKMithrandir: Which is busted when packages.debian.org is sucking02:12
MithrandirStevenK: oh joy.02:13
StevenKIndeed.02:13
StevenKAnd HE doesn't seem to care much.02:13
StevenKWhat do you expect from a Lintian co-maintainer.02:13
cjwatsonthppt02:13
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_ionhobbsee: What are you currently using to paste multiple lines?02:15
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cjwatsonlocalechooser really does hurt my brain sometimes02:16
Hobbsee_ion: standard copy pastes in konsole, which, incidently, work in vi02:16
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cjwatsonHobbsee: :help usr_0402:17
_ionhobbsee: To copy 5 lines, 5yy. In vim you can "paint" multiple lines with V, normal movement, then y. Also: yap yanks a paragraph etc.02:18
Hobbseeah02:18
Hobbseethanks02:19
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_iony2ap = yank two paragraphs. Use ip ("inner paragraph") instead of ap ("a paragraph") to leave out the empty line after the paragraph.02:19
_ionReplace y with d to cut instead of copy.02:20
pitti'vim in 5 lines' :)02:23
Hobbseeheh02:24
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=== Hobbsee is slowly having to learn to use it
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_ionpitti: You mean "0.0004% of vim in 5 lines"? :-)02:33
pitti_ion: yeah :)02:33
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pittierm, s/dares/fears/02:33
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bhaleyou can always learn a new trick in vim :)02:50
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cjwatsonI think I need lunch and coffee first02:51
jdongsorry cjwatson.... need a hug? :)02:52
jdongbut it's been a while since you guys have processed them, with UDS and all02:52
cjwatsonno offfence, but if I need a hug my wife is downstairs ;)02:53
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jdonghehe02:55
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=== jdong changes all confirmed bp requests to in progress in revenge :)
cjwatsonjdong: bug 57748> did you test the current version in edgy or feisty?02:59
UbugtuMalone bug 57748 in dapper-backports "Please backport moodle and moodle-book" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5774802:59
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jdongcjwatson: feisty02:59
cjwatsonok02:59
jdongcjwatson: unless otherwise said, I used feisty versions02:59
cjwatson(I can do either, just need to know)02:59
jdonggood to know what either can be done though :)02:59
cjwatsonthe script just takes a source from one suite and feeds it to another, munging the version; it's fairly general03:01
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jdongcool03:01
jdongwould it be feasible for me to have a script that can choose from one suite or another? Right now I just have feisty deb-src in sources.list03:02
jdongI suppose parsing Sources.gz could be an option...03:02
=== cjwatson punts a few through the queue to keep it busy during lunch
cjwatsonapt-get source doesn't support pinning (or similar) last I checked, but sure, you could do it by hand fairly straightforwardly03:03
jdongI'll have to give that a try when I get some spare time03:04
cjwatsonas time goes on, you're probably going to need to get more conservative for purely practical reasons - keeping stuff from feisty+n building on dapper will be tricky03:04
jdongyeah, already it's starting to get difficult to get things workin in Dapper... python and mono are both off-limits for one...03:05
jdongdapper-backports will slowly and gracefully stop one day.... hopefully without too many "it's an ***ing LTS release" e-mails ;-)03:06
cjwatsonthere's still the direct core-dev option open, although that's more manpower-intensive03:06
cjwatsonand the longer that can be held off, the better03:07
jdonglol :)03:08
jdongbut yeah, it would be cool if someday backports is something done by the dev that uploads a new release03:08
jdongheck in the meantime, "do not backport this ya fools" messages in the changelogs can even save me time and grief :)03:08
bhaleI personally run latest development code and dont have the means or interest in backporting to stable03:09
bhaleyou could recruit more team if need be03:09
thombhale: +1 (nor do i think backports make sense in all but certain specific circumstance)03:11
jdongyeah, I get that much, developers usually don't have much care for stable releases and updates :)03:11
bhalethom: they make sense to me as an opt in for some users03:11
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jdongthom: lots of users like to keep their system fresh with new upstream version packages, even at possible risk of instability03:12
jdongbut are not daring enough to go full-out development version03:12
bhaleI used to think that was a "you cant have your cake and eat it too"03:12
jdongmmm, cake... I'm hungry03:13
bhalebut since we agreed to do things officially now I don't really mind03:13
bhalebeagle 0.2.13 is a good case of something that is beneficial imo03:14
jdongyeah, I think I approved that03:14
bhalerock on.03:14
jdongyeah, I remember reading that it had that CPU pegging bug03:15
cjwatsonjdong: in practice I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll be making the main development team responsible for backport03:15
cjwatsons03:15
bhalethere are a few of those, beagle has corner cases based on the wacky stuff you have on your disk03:15
cjwatsonit's too much of a dislocation from people's normal work03:15
cjwatsoneven if people had it all set up03:16
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jdongyeah, I got that kind of reaction when backports first started03:16
jdongit was kind of a "nobody wants it" reaction from the developer and a 30gb/hr downloading reaction from the users....03:16
cjwatsonhigh CPU load is an example of something that could potentially be a candidate for -updates more than -backports03:16
jdongcjwatson: backports is the lazy way out when the specific fixes couldn't be isolated :)03:16
cjwatsonassuming the fix can be selectively backported rather than just "here's a new upstream version"03:16
bhalecjwatson: it is a delta of several upstream versions03:17
cjwatsonbhale: hence "assuming". I'm sure the fix was a small number of changesets in there somewhere03:17
jdongcjwatson: what's our policy on upstream versions in the case of a completely awful package?03:17
jdonglike kdesvn comes to mind....03:17
cjwatsonjdong: I think that's closer to the reason developers were uncomfortable with it (lazy way out)03:17
jdongthe edgy shipped version just is a segfault magnet03:17
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cjwatsonupstream versions in -updates you mean? no, not even then, and possibly especially not then03:18
cjwatsonif it's completely awful, then we're likely to be even more cautious03:18
jdongok03:18
cjwatsonsomebody's got to do the work of figuring out the isolated fix03:18
cjwatsonparticularly after the X update fiasco, we just can't go dumping new upstream code into -updates without thinking very carefully indeed about it03:19
jdongmmm03:19
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cjwatsonjdong: bug 55412> subject line says 1.4.2, you didn't specify a release, edgy has 1.4.2, feisty has 1.4.4. which should I pick?03:33
UbugtuMalone bug 55412 in dapper-backports "Conky 1.4.2" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5541203:33
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cjwatsonjdong: bug 60749> dapper-backports already has gnome-commander 1.2.0-3.1~dapper1. Do you specifically need a backport of 1.2.0-3.2?03:36
UbugtuMalone bug 60749 in Baltix "Please backport Gnome-Commander 1.2" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6074903:36
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cjwatsonjdong: there are quite a few of these backports I think should be stable release updates, really - I mean, come on, missing dependencies? bug 4520303:38
UbugtuMalone bug 45203 in libmail-spf-query-perl "missing dependence on libsys-hostname-long-perl" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4520303:38
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jdongcjwatson: <conky> go for feisty, gnome-commander... oops that's a dupe, and the SRU-candidates, I'll be more critical of those in the future03:44
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jdongI was assuming that since in most of those cases it was a developer who assigned it to backports that SRU wasn't desired...03:45
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cjwatsonI think many MOTUs are not yet really aware of the SRU process; if you could exercise some QA on those, that would be good03:45
jdongcjwatson: ok, I certainly will from this point on03:46
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cjwatsonthanks03:47
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seb128jdong: hi03:49
jdonghi seb12803:49
seb128jdong: any edgy backport of gaim 2.0beta5 planned?03:49
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jdongseb128: I've been kinda holding that off because of the whole plugin thing03:50
seb128jdong: it fixes a load of bug and would make upstream and users happy03:50
seb128jdong: what plugin thing?03:50
jdongnamely all have to be rebuilt03:50
seb128ah03:50
jdongbackported, to be more precise...03:50
seb128we didn't rebuild any for feisty yet :p03:50
seb128I didn't know03:50
jdonghehe :)03:50
seb128are you sure?03:50
jdongyes03:51
jdongright now I'm running backported beta503:51
jdongand a lot of my plugins are greyed out03:51
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seb128why do they break and how?03:51
jorgpsome of the plugins have to be bumped to go with the beta5 of gaim03:51
jdongwhen they're compiled they contain a version header, if it doesn't match with gaim's version, gaim disables them03:51
jdongsorta like what the kernel does03:51
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seb128jdong: and do we have so many plugins?03:52
sbalneavMorning all03:52
seb128like it's hard job to backport them?03:52
jdongneed rebuild: gaim-extendedprefs03:52
jdonggaim-encryption03:52
jdonggaim-xmms-remote03:52
jdonggaim-guifications03:52
jdonggaim-otr03:52
jdonggaim-hotkeys03:52
jdongneed new upstream: gaim-encryption03:52
seb128ok, forget about it then03:52
jdongwill not compile: gaim-guifications [who cares, we have libgaim-notify anyway] 03:52
seb128I've done an unofficial backport anyway03:53
jdongseb128: I mean, if it's something you want done, I'll put some time into it and make sure those are the builds needed03:53
seb128don't bother03:53
jdongok then03:53
dholbachhi sbalneav03:54
seb128I'm wondering if anybody is using those03:54
cjwatsonbug 52563> yeesh, what's with the cheerleading on that one?03:54
UbugtuMalone bug 52563 in edgy-backports "Please backport Stardict 2.4.8" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5256303:54
seb128that's weird nobody complained yet on feisty03:54
jorgpseb128, url for backport?03:54
cjwatson"I need it! Ooh! Omg! Omg!"03:54
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seb128jorgp: no backport :p I'm not going to point a broken package :p03:54
seb128in fact that's a rebuilt of the feisty package I point to people on bugs if we suspect that a bug is fixed by the new beta03:55
dholbachholy cow!03:55
jorgpok, I was just about to compile my own backport from feisty03:55
cjwatsonjdong: I've got to go out now for a bit, but I'll keep going with the backports when I get back03:55
seb128jorgp: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/gaim-edgy/ but shhhhh03:55
jdongcjwatson: you have no idea what kind of whacky users I have come in contact with :)03:55
jorgphehe, thanks seb128 03:56
jdongcjwatson: and take your time :)03:56
seb128jorgp: np ;)03:56
jdongseb128: you might actually want to publicize that more :)03:56
jdongseb128: people have been on the forums with lots of various unofficial packages03:56
seb128grumpf03:56
seb128well03:56
jdongranging from legitimate rebuilds of feisty to checkinstalled nightmares03:56
Amaranthpeople on the forums run checkinstall and post that03:56
seb128if they go that way maybe official backports would be appreciated then03:56
cjwatsonseb128: could you use a more backportish version number?03:56
jdongon second thoughts I might actually backport it :)03:57
cjwatsonseb128: 2.0.0+beta5-3ubuntu2~edgy1 is standard at the moment03:57
seb128cjwatson: good idea, thank you03:57
seb128will do that03:57
=== Amaranth always does ~amarnath1
Amaranthbut spelled right03:58
Amaranththat way you can tell it came from me03:58
cjwatsonAmaranth: works for you because that's << official backports, since 'a' < 'd'03:58
cjwatsonbut I'm not sure that's good for everyone03:58
Amaranthoh, right03:58
jdong~0amaranth1 :)03:59
Amaranthwe're about 20 releases away from me having to worry about the alphabet :)03:59
cjwatsonI think we probably ought to change the versioning scheme before we get to 'u', actually04:00
cjwatson~ubuntu7.04 etc.04:00
jdongcjwatson: originally I was using numeric releases04:00
jdong~6.06backport1 and similar04:00
cjwatsonI'm uncomfortable with the alphabeticity of the current backports scheme04:00
cjwatsonyeah, I think that's better04:00
jdongalphabeticity :)04:00
cjwatsonI just inherited this from elmo's script04:00
_ionalphabeticitilessness04:01
cjwatsonfloccinaucinihilipilification04:01
cjwatsonANYWAY04:01
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jdongI can't believe you took the time to spell that :)04:01
jdongargh, you're kidding... there's already a /usr/bin/defrag?04:02
=== jdong angrily storms off to change his script's name
_ionDepend on the package and divert the file.04:03
jdongbut that's mean :)04:03
jdongfor all I know, /usr/bin/defrag might be saner than my work :d04:03
_ion(just kidding )04:03
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cjwatson(you can divert a file without depending on the package)04:04
_ionAh, right.04:04
jdongI'll just rename my binary rightfully back to the project name04:04
jdonginstead of stealing defrag04:05
jdongbleh, lost my fglrx04:06
jdongthat could explain the lag :)04:06
jdongand not a wise crack out of you guys about closed source proprietary drivers :)04:07
jdongI need my bling :)04:07
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_ionUsing a proprietary driver rewards me with all OpenGL programs segfaulting. :-)04:08
jdongwell tough toenails to you, _ion04:09
jdongbut not using proprietary drivers leaves me with lovely vesa04:09
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jdongand believe me, I don't enjoy window trails in that sense....04:09
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hungerjdong: I know that feeling:-(04:28
hungerjdong: Even though the ati driver is somewhat better than vesa... it keeps crashing on me whenever nomething only smells of 3D.04:29
jdonghunger: that's not a choice for me :(04:29
jdongradeon mobility x140004:29
hungerjdong: And the proprietary ATI drivers crash on each suspend or switch from X to console:-(04:29
_ionhunger: I'm not using suspend, but AFAIK there's some kind of a suspend script that does that for you automatically.04:30
jdonghunger: ouch, recently??04:30
_ionAlso locks your X session etc.04:30
jdonghunger: 8.29 fixed a lot of that04:31
hungerjdong: Yesterday was the last time I tried flaying with the fglrx stuff.04:31
jdong_ion: no, he's saying he locks up on every chvt04:31
jdongwhich happened to me with pre-8.2904:31
_ionjdong: Ah, thanks for clarification. I misread the line.04:31
jdonghunger: I take it that you have an older ATI card?04:31
jdongthey seem to get the shaft when it comes to fglrx04:31
jdongsurprisingly fglrx has treated me very well04:32
jdongas well if not better than nvidia drivers04:32
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admin123cjwatson, are you there?04:33
hungerjdong: I have a fire gl v3200 IIRC... a mobility thing build into a laptop.04:33
jdongmmm04:33
hungerjdong: It is PCIe, so it is not too old.04:33
jdongI was gonna say04:33
jdongheh, I guess that explains why some are so anti-fglrx and others (like me) really don't see the argument04:34
jdongthough that's not entirely true04:34
hungerjdong: Well, the free driver is not really working as well...04:34
jdongmy friend has an older ATI card and fglrx on  it was a completely different beast :)04:34
hungerjdong: glxgears is a surefire way to freeze my complete box.04:35
=== hunger has to run... courses.
jdongouch04:36
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sjoebooquestion: has herd 1 been released? i was jsut scoping out cdimage.ubuntun.com and don't see it under "releases" but there are daily builds. teh schedule at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule says herd 1 was on the 30th...04:49
jdongGNU/Hurd 1.0 is out? YES ! FINALLY I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR YEARS oh wait misread that....04:50
aileanherd 1 is out, yes04:50
pittijdong: what? you can't ruin that running gag that has worked for years...04:50
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aileansjoeboo, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20061201/04:51
jdong:)04:51
sjoeboothanks04:53
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vernesI want to add a grub boot option that will start X without a windowmanager (X :123 & DISPLAY=:123 myapp) How would I implement this without breaking the option to boot 'normally' ?04:56
jdongvernes: implement that bootpath as a different runlevel in /etc/rcN.d, then pass that runlevel to the kernel04:57
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pittidid anyone already merge network-manager? current feisty version is ftbfs05:01
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vernesjdong: thanks, I'll look into that.05:04
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giskardpitti, me05:17
giskardbut i'm not a core-dev05:18
pittigiskard: ah, I'm just fixing various bits and pieces of our current feisty n-m to make it build05:18
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fdovingcjwatson: working on the SRU queue today?05:21
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ograpitti, late pong05:43
pittiogra: just a quick question05:44
ograshoot05:44
pittiogra: I fixed a bug (at least I think so) in dhclient05:44
ograok ?05:44
pittiogra: when using it in single-shot mode (-1), it didn't call 'dhclient-script FAIL' on failure05:44
pittiogra: does that affect anything in ltsp?05:44
pittiogra: I need it for proper zeroconf-networking implementation05:44
ogranot that i'm aware of, i dont think we use dhclient anywhere in ltsp05:45
pittiogra: dhcdbdbdbd calls dhclient with -1 and thus needs that fix05:45
ograinitramfs uses ipconfig and i think thats about it05:45
pittiogra: splendid; thanks05:45
ograwell, we surely dont use NM in ltsp ;)05:45
pittijust want to make sure to not break edubuntu05:45
dholbachpitti: dhcdbdbdbd: HAHAAHAHAHAHAH!05:46
ografor fat clients that might count since we install a full desktop on the client, but stil no NM involved05:46
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=== pitti plays with his lower lips
bluefoxicy....05:46
pittiogra: the result of my fix is, when you do 'dhclient -1 eth1' and there's no answer, you'll get a zeroconf IP automatically05:47
pittiogra: shouldn't really hurt, but I wanted to be sure05:47
ograoki, i dont see any probs, else i'll still have some months to complain ;)05:47
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pittiMithrandir: AFAICS I need to do one fix in NetworkManager to get it working for our zeroconf spec05:49
pittiMithrandir: in particular, it needs to check whether avahi-autoipd is already running on an interface before doing its own autoip config05:49
bluefoxicysomeone try http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Fpatch-2.6.19.bz2 and see if 1)  It loads; 2)  You can repeatedly find Kconfig05:50
pittiMithrandir: if I do that now (shouldn't be intrusive), do I conflict with anything you hack on it?05:50
bluefoxicyFirefox keeps chewing CPU while loading that page05:50
bluefoxicyand then eventually just freezes05:50
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keescookgoood morning.06:00
kylemmorning kees.06:00
keescookheya kylem :)06:00
pittikeescook: morning, brother!06:00
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=== pitti hugs keescook as if he hadn't seem him for 10 days!
keescook\\o// *scream*06:03
pitti*bounce*06:03
keescookooh, this will never get old.  :)06:04
seb128hey keescook06:05
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keescookseb128: say, what's up with evince?  are you only packaging it for ubuntu?06:06
seb128keescook: what do mean "only"? I'm packaging it for Debian too06:07
jdongooh, look at that, buildd now spams me when there's FTBFS'es06:07
jdonghow awesome06:07
jdong(not like I exactly expected scummvm to build on sparc anyway :D)06:07
keescookseb128: the version differences between ubuntu and debian confused me.  :)06:07
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thomok, this is getting disturbing06:08
seb128keescook: Debian goes with GNOME 2.14 for etch06:08
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dholbachhey thom06:08
seb128keescook: so evince is 0.406:08
dholbach T H O M ! ! !06:08
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keescookseb128: aah06:08
=== dholbach hugs kylem too
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Mithrandirpitti: sure.06:29
=== pitti headdesks on n-m code
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dholbachpitti: what is it this time?06:36
pittidholbach: oh, just silly handling of dhcdbd exit statuses06:39
pittidholbach: this thing is so full of surprises... :(06:39
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pittidholbach: I mailed upstream with some cleanup proposals, let's see how they respond06:40
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superm1i was just looking at the buildd queues, if something was missing a dependency, and that dependency just got built - does the buildd have to be prodded to try again, or does it figure it out?06:43
superm1its in "Dependency wait"06:43
superm1https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/280309 is the buildd queue number06:51
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mdzsuperm1: it is supposed to figure it out on its own, but may occasionally need nudging07:02
superm1well i saw that build log had a title of buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.libiec61883_1.1.0-2ubuntu1~dapper1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz so i thought it might need a nudge07:02
mdzsuperm1: it looks like libraw1394-dev built weeks ago.07:03
mdzI'll kick it07:03
mdzoh, that's dapper-backports, not feisty07:04
superm1right 07:04
superm1it built this morning07:04
superm1at 9ish CST07:04
mdzeven so, it built hours ago07:04
superm1but libiec took off like 5 minutes after the build finished07:04
superm1before it synced i'd bet07:04
mdzanyway I retried libiec6188307:04
superm1i'd guess its the same situation for all the architectures there: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds?build_state=all&build_text=libiec07:05
superm1still doesnt appear to have taken it though. hm the i386 still didnt grab it correctly.07:07
mdzhmm, it failed again due to libraw1394 being too old07:07
mdzinfinity: ping07:07
superm1yea the 1394 that built earlier should have been good: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/28030307:07
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mdzlibraw1394 seems to have built but not been published07:08
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gnomefreakthe images arent ready yet?07:13
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superm1mdz, is there something else that has to be done to get it to publish?07:19
mdzsuperm1: it isn't intended that it be so, no07:20
mdzsuperm1: infinity is the person you need to talk to07:20
superm1k07:20
superm1well but looking at it, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libraw1394 it appears to be published07:22
superm1could it be something else then?07:23
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mdzsuperm1: yes, I know what it says, but it's wrong :-)07:32
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mdzthe source is published but the binaries aren't07:33
superm1ah07:33
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pittiLathiat: here by chance?07:44
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keescookhm, is there a more complete way to get a dump of X fonts besides xlsfonts?07:57
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cbx33hi guys....anyone a python expert here ;)08:14
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cbx33nice one pitti ;)08:14
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dinosaur-rushi08:37
dinosaur-rusis Apache 2.2.x (the latest is 2.2.3) package going to be released?08:37
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thomi assume it's been or will be synced into feisty, yes08:38
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dinosaur-ruswell, but it could be avaiable in edgy...08:43
dinosaur-rusbut I can wait, don't worry ;))08:43
thomno, it won't ever hit edgy unless somebody crazy backports it and every apache module08:44
cjwatson008:46
cjwatson(er)08:46
dinosaur-rusI meant Apache 2.2.3 was released some months before Edgy08:47
dinosaur-rusbut nothing bad, though08:50
cjwatsonyes, but it had an ABI break and was very complicated to import08:51
cjwatsonthom knows far more details than I expect he really ever wanted to08:51
thomAPI and ABI break; look at the pain it caused when we landed it in debian...08:52
thombut yeah, all sorted for feisty :-)08:55
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lifelesshmm, python-apt folk here, will apt_pkg.ParseSection return all the fields,whether it understands them or not ?09:42
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Adri2000does someone know if debian is also doing the transition from xlibmesa-gl-dev to libgl1-mesa-dev?10:26
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tenshuhello all10:28
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tenshuis anyone working on a web based "front end" for Ubuntu?10:29
phanatictenshu: tried webmin?10:30
tenshuwell i meant something specifical to ubuntu10:30
tenshuexcuse my english i'm french10:30
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tenshui know that ubuntu center project seems to be droped10:31
tenshuand firefrogz on the french forums started a ajax based interface10:31
tenshuand he look for someone to work on the "ubuntu side"10:32
tenshuyou shoul look to his topic it is quite aming http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=6899610:32
ivoksfor backend?10:32
tenshuif my nderstanding of backend is ood yes10:33
ivoksah, this isn't like webmin10:33
ivoksthis is web interface for desktop10:33
tenshu(his last development so far are viewable in the end of the topic)10:33
tenshuyes10:34
tenshuso far you can just use the webrowser and a few command10:34
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ivokswell, if someone is interested...10:35
tenshuit could be a good way to extend the ubuntu experience where ever you are10:35
ivoksi kind of don't belive in web based desktop :)10:35
tenshujust feel like your at home :)10:35
tenshui think it could be really nice tio retrieve your files from school or job10:36
tenshuor managing whatever you could imagine10:37
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ivoksit would, but i don't think this is good aproach10:37
tenshuwell if anyone wnat to work on it just tell him10:37
tenshuwhy that ivoks10:37
ivokscause you don't retrive files in thic concept10:38
ivoksyou do retrive content, but...10:38
ivoksyou can't print, you can't close internet connection, etc...10:38
tenshuwell you could do it10:38
ivoksi guess there is someone interested in this10:38
tenshuthere is a way to send a command to shell through php10:39
LaserJocksounds kinda like a security nightmare10:39
ivoksphp is running on server10:39
jdongtenshu: you mean a PHP shell?10:39
jdongtenshu: do you need more than passthru()?10:40
jdonglol10:40
tenshuwell i'm not sure i'm not so skilled in php :p10:40
jdongalso I think there are premade scripts for fancier implementations10:40
jdongbut insert security smacking here10:40
ivoksprinting can be done, easily10:40
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ivokstenshu: there is allready web based desktop project10:41
tenshuyeah ubuntu center10:41
ivoksacctually, whole distribution that works like that10:41
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ivoksam, i was thinkging about something else10:42
tenshuhu there is an other one?10:42
ivoksyes, i'm trying to recall the name of it :)10:43
jdongwhile we're on the topic of horrible security practices....10:43
ivoksulteo.com10:43
jdonganyone have pointers for how I would go about making a passwordless SSH login?10:43
jdongI mean truly passwordless :D10:43
jdongand yes I do fully understand the ramifications of what I want to accomplish :)10:43
tenshu know about ulteo but it approach isn't good10:43
keescookjdong: just use a blank ssh passphrase?10:44
jdongkeescook: does that work?10:44
keescookyeah.  when prompted for your ssh passphrase, just hit enter10:44
jdongan account with a blank password doesn't trigger a password prompt?10:44
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ivoksjdong: keys?10:44
keescookhm?10:44
jdongivoks: but that requires handing out keys10:44
keescookjdong: well, you need authorized_keys updated.  Perhaps I don't understand.10:45
jdongI'm trying to make an ssh account that anyone can connect to with no password prompted10:45
ivoksjdong: well, yes10:45
keescookah10:45
ivoksah...10:45
ivoksanonymous ssh :)10:45
jdongyeah10:45
keescookjdong: PAM tricks, I'd assume10:45
jdong:)10:45
jdongmmm, sounds lovely10:45
cjwatsonjdong: you need "PermitEmptyPasswords yes" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config, but the consequences are your responsibility alone10:45
jdongfun10:46
cjwatsonI'd be very careful with that10:46
tenshuyou should ;)10:46
jdongyeah, I know it's reckless :)10:46
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jdongwell, I'm basically trying to create an SSH account on my router that just displays netstat and ip_conntrack on login10:47
jdongwith no other abilities10:47
jdongonly I think ssh would be a bad idea for this :)10:47
keescookjdong: easier to use authorized_keys with a forced command instead10:47
ivoksjdong: not good idea10:47
jdongdo forced commands prevent other escape methods?10:47
jdonglike the SSH magic keys?10:47
cjwatsonI'd recommend using pam_access if you're going to go the empty-password route10:47
ivoksjdong: you can evade .login with ssh10:47
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keescookjdong: I think it's no less secure than what you were going to do instead.  :)10:48
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ivoksjdong: so, one could login and get full control of account10:48
jdongkeescook: my other option was an apache php page that did the same thing\10:48
jdongand I personally cringe at SSH's ~C ability :)10:49
jdongso maybe I'll go with the alternative :)10:49
cjwatsonjdong: ~C only allows you to open forwardings, and there's an authorized_keys option to prevent that10:49
cjwatsonno-port-forward10:49
jdongooh, ok, that's good to know10:49
cjwatsonsorry, no-port-forwarding10:49
jdongand opening forwardings could possibly be abusive in my case10:49
ivoksby all10:50
cjwatsonI always use no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,no-pty options with forced-command keys10:50
jdongsince it allows a completely different set of firewall rules to be applied...10:50
ivoksbye even10:50
cjwatson(well, ~C also allows you to run a local command on the *client* if PermitLocalCommand is set, which it isn't by default; but that's not important here)10:51
cjwatsonI don't think there are real security vulnerabilities in forced commands that you should be worried about; if you spot any, I'd like to know about them10:52
jdongok10:52
keescookme too.  :)10:52
jdongI might just go the PHP route with this one... and then I can even format the output with prettyness10:53
jdongthough I'm sure someone's already made some kind of script that does that :)10:53
jdonganyone know of PHP/CGI scripts that display useful stats for routers10:54
jdongsuch as nat routings, ifconfig type output.... etc10:54
cjwatsonit's sort of interesting that ssh escapes only work on the master session if you're using session multiplexing. I must investigate why at some point.10:54
jdongdoes Linux have any kind of SAK mechanism for console logins at least?10:55
jdongor at least some other way to deter from falling victim to phony login prompts...10:59
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Adri2000(re-asking) does someone know if debian is also doing the transition from xlibmesa-gl-dev to libgl1-mesa-dev?11:08
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LaserJockAdri2000: I really wouldn't worry about it11:10
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superm1elmo, ping11:34
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mdkesuperm1: it's late, and the weekend, don't hold your breath. Best to email if its important11:39
superm1oh, i should have looked and saw elmo was away.11:39
superm1not that important11:39
superm1i'll just ping'm on monday11:39
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