[12:17] <geser> keescook: now the bug looks a little bit strange?  should it also affect gnupg2 till it fixed there also?
[12:17] <keescook> geser: yup, I'll get it in there.  sorry for my mix up.  :)
[12:52] <LaserJock> anybody know what the process for setting the "Approver" on a spec is?
[12:59] <ajmitch> I think generally you don't set people as approver, unless you had their permission
[12:59] <ajmitch> mdz told me earlier that approvals should be TB at the moment
[12:59] <LaserJock> but how do they get set?
[12:59] <LaserJock> I have a spec that is pending approval with no approver set
[12:59] <ajmitch> someone else sets them
[12:59] <ajmitch> or should
[12:59] <LaserJock> I just want to make sure I didn't miss something
[01:00] <ajmitch> if a TB member is still alive/awake, you could ask them
[01:02] <mdz> LaserJock: they default to being unset, and are only set if there is someone particularly paying attention to the spec
[01:02] <mdz> you can set the approver to techboard
[01:02] <LaserJock> ok
[01:02] <LaserJock> just wanted to make sure I had all my ducks in a row
[01:02] <ajmitch> sorry if I gave any wrong info there :)
[01:05] <LaserJock> ok, I put TB as approver just to ease my mind ;-)
[01:12] <keescook> Whoa.  I'm the drafter for Driver Repositories??
[01:14] <LaserJock> keescook: don't you hate it when that happens ;-)
[01:14] <ajmitch> lucky chap
[01:14] <keescook> Uhm... what's the right thing to do here?  I have no idea what this spec is.
[01:14] <ajmitch> you didn't attend any BOF on it?
[01:15] <keescook> nope.
[01:15] <mdz> keescook: if it was discussed at UDS, it would have appeared on the schedule with your name on it
[01:15] <mdz> if it wasn't, then go back through your mail, find out who set that field, and ask them what's up
[01:15] <keescook> mdz: no, I was just marked as drafter in the last 10 minutes...
[01:15] <keescook> yup, gonna do that
[01:16] <keescook> yeah, someone made me drafter for 3 specs just now.  wild
[01:17] <keescook> they weren't at uds.
[01:17] <Adri2000> ahh TB is back, what about CC mdz?
[01:17] <mdz> I am not a member of the CC
[01:17] <ajmitch> I think it could be random community spec submissions
[01:17] <mdz> keescook: you have a secret admirer
[01:17] <LaserJock> heh
[01:18] <keescook> mdz: yay!  only a few months until feb
[01:18] <ajmitch> with holidays & everything, about 2 months till freeze :)
[01:18] <LaserJock> holidays?!?
[01:19] <ajmitch> apparantly some people stop working
[01:19] <LaserJock> those are what I like to call "Uninterupted Ubuntu-holic Joy Time"
[01:19] <ajmitch> you're far too happy about that
[01:20] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I have to or else I will spiral down into that pit of cyncism call bhale ;-)
[01:21] <ajmitch> hey now, he's perfectly reasonable
[01:42] <alex-weej> any ALSA-like people wanna help me debug a buggy sound driver?
[01:42] <alex-weej> alsa randomly can't open on my card
[01:42] <alex-weej> oss works fine
[01:42] <alex-weej> after using flash player
[01:42] <alex-weej> no amount of sound module unloading/reloading is fixing it
[01:43] <crimsun> dmesg, /proc/interrupts, /proc/asound/oss/sndstat spew pastebinned.
[01:44] <alex-weej> man pastebin is SLOW these days
[01:44] <Lathiat> try a different pastebin?
[01:44] <alex-weej> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/FWOrAN41.html
[01:45] <alex-weej> cat /proc/interrupts: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/gJPevy53.html
[01:45] <crimsun> am I missing something, or is the first really only 6 lines?
[01:45] <alex-weej> do you want the whole log?
[01:45] <crimsun> yes, please. Those 6 lines are useless.
[01:46] <alex-weej> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/GR50N428.html
[01:46] <alex-weej> ok
[01:46] <alex-weej> ^^
[01:46] <alex-weej> the faulty card is the ice1712
[01:46] <alex-weej> the M-Audio Audiophile 2496
[01:48] <alex-weej> sndstat: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/JLw93U98.html
[01:48] <crimsun> is this with flash 7.0.68 or 9.0.21.78?
[01:48] <alex-weej> 9
[01:48] <alex-weej> annoying thing is, flash can still use the card
[01:48] <alex-weej> nothing else can
[01:49] <alex-weej> (cept OSS)
[01:49] <alex-weej> (i'm assuming flash is using ALSA here)
[01:49] <crimsun> is ice1712 now index 0 or 1?
[01:49] <crimsun> (you didn't mention [un] loading emu10k1)
[01:50] <alex-weej> i didn't did i?
[01:50] <alex-weej> m2496 is still #0
[01:50] <alex-weej> according to aplay -l
[01:51] <crimsun> after closing whatever browsers are open, do concurrent instances of ``aplay -Dplughw:0 /usr/share/sounds/startup.wav'' fail?
[01:52] <crimsun> (fail-> block, appear to play but remain inaudible, etc.)
[01:52] <alex-weej> crimsun: um
[01:52] <alex-weej> aplay -Dplughw:0 works fine
[01:52] <alex-weej> but aplay -Ddefault fails
[01:52] <alex-weej> ubuntu@ubuntu:~/Desktop$ aplay -Ddefault test.wav 
[01:52] <alex-weej> ALSA lib pcm_direct.c:224:(make_local_socket) connect failed: /tmp/alsa-dmix-29505-1164922756-617983: No such file or directory
[01:52] <alex-weej> ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:894:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to connect client
[01:52] <alex-weej> aplay: main:547: audio open error: No such file or directory
[01:53] <crimsun> alsa-lib, great
[01:53] <alex-weej> ah
[01:53] <alex-weej> i used to have this occasionally with my disk boot
[01:53] <alex-weej> (i'm on a live cd boot atm thanks to failure of said disk)
[01:54] <crimsun> kill $(lsof -t /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*) && sudo modprobe -r $(lsmod |grep ^snd |awk '{print $1}' |sort -r) && sudo modprobe snd-ice1712 && sudo modprobe snd-emu10k1
[01:54] <alex-weej> FATAL: Module snd_util_mem is in use.
[01:55] <crimsun> there's no way around that one save to reboot.
[01:55] <alex-weej> arse!
[01:55] <alex-weej> ok if we can't fix it
[01:55] <alex-weej> can we at least figure out what went wrong so i can file something?
[01:55] <alex-weej> or is it a mystery?
[01:55] <alex-weej> seems the dmix socket has just gone kapooft
[01:56] <crimsun> give me sec to find the commits that fixed it.
[01:56] <alex-weej> oh it's fixed?!
[01:56] <crimsun> a sec, even
[01:57] <alex-weej> ok
[02:01] <crimsun> alex-weej: dapper, edgy, or feisty?
[02:02] <alex-weej> edgy
[02:04] <crimsun> edgy lacks both the -driver-side disconnect fixes (in 13) and -lib-side's ipc fixes (post-13, in hg)
[02:04] <crimsun> I'd be interested in seeing if current feisty + -lib hg can reproduce it
[02:11] <alex-weej> i see
[02:11] <alex-weej> is feisty even usable yet?
[02:12] <crimsun> for some small population, yes. Maybe wait for Herd 1?
[02:13] <infinity> It's not going to be magically more usable in a day. :)
[02:14] <alex-weej> lol
[02:16] <alex-weej> i'll get it installed to do some hacking on it when i get my new disk
[02:16] <alex-weej> cheers for the help, crimsun
[02:16] <alex-weej> i'll let you know if it happens on feisty
[02:16] <crimsun> excellent, thank you.
[02:23] <zul> BenC: do you still want the the paravirt xen crack in ubuntu or how is that going to work 
[02:24] <ajmitch> will it land in 2.6.20 upstream?
[02:25] <zul> bits of it
[02:32] <bhale> LaserJock: thats not nice
[02:33] <bhale> LaserJock: about all I can say :)
[02:33] <ajmitch> hello bhale 
[02:33] <bhale> hi
[02:33] <jdub> ah, the development branch... new kernels and reboots
[02:34] <jdub> morning bhale :)
[02:34] <bhale> LaserJock: I have been totally nice all day and you know it
[02:36] <bhale> jdub: dude, new beagle rocks.
[02:36] <jdub> yeah?
[02:36] <bhale> yeah.
[02:36] <bhale> joe has been sounding off on LP bugs even
[02:36] <jdub> bonus.
[02:39] <LaserJock> bhale: I was so pleasently suprised you came to my open week session
[02:39] <LaserJock> and even moderated for me :-)
[02:39] <bhale> my pleasure, it was a good one
[02:40] <LaserJock> thanks, hope people got something out of it
[02:40] <bhale> I dont know if you know, but I wrote the Ubuntu Packaging Guide spec
[02:40] <LaserJock> really?
[02:40] <bhale> really.
[02:40] <bhale> whiprush might have typed it
[02:40] <LaserJock> I didn't know that
[02:40] <bhale> I proposed it
[02:40] <bhale> and here you are.
[02:40] <bhale> ROCK OUT.
[02:41] <bhale> (someone at the session, Ankur, asked to run with it, but disappeared)
[02:41] <bhale> (enter you)
[02:41] <LaserJock> yeah, I picked up with what Ankur did
[02:53] <bhale> jdub: The (american) Office this week was written by the creators of the British show
[02:54] <bhale> jdub: not fantastic, though
[02:54] <LaserJock> really? I'm taping it
[02:54] <bhale> sorry.
[02:54] <LaserJock> np, I'll watch it anyway
[02:54] <bhale> yeah its good just not a zinger
[02:54] <bhale> jdub hates it
[02:55] <LaserJock> at least I hope I'm taping
[02:55] <LaserJock> 1st time I've ever tried using a VCR for taping TV
[02:56] <keescook> LaserJock: VHS or betamax?  ;)
[02:56] <LaserJock> VHS of course, I'm not that bad
[02:57] <keescook> I know, I'm just giving you a hard time.  :)  I've got a friend with an HDTV that spends all kinds of time trying to convince me I'm in the darkages.  :)
[02:57] <LaserJock> but of course next month I'll have to burn it to blueray (whatever that is) ;-)
[02:57] <keescook> hehe
[02:59] <elkbuntu> LaserJock, you can get the vcr to at least pretend to tape things? you're one up on me ;)
[02:59] <LaserJock> well, first of this morning I had to set the clock
[02:59] <LaserJock> and then I did remember to put a blank tape in
[02:59] <LaserJock> almost forgot that part ;-)
[03:00] <elkbuntu> been there, done that
[03:02] <ajmitch> keescook: I saw 1 or two of the specs where you got assigned as drafter on the forums, if you want to go & educate the authors :)
[03:12] <keescook> ajmitch: yes, please.  why would they think random people, much less me, should be doing drafting on things they never heard of?  weird.
[03:13] <realist> If you even own a TV, you're one up on me...
[03:14] <realist> keescook: any chance of seeing a tzdata update within the next two days? ;-)
[03:14] <ajmitch> keescook: 
[03:14] <ajmitch> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=310058
[03:15] <jdub> bhale: i don't mind the US version
[03:15] <keescook> realist: I talked to another person about that too; you'll need to talk to mdz about doing a shortened release of the tzdata.  :(
[03:15] <jdub> bhale: i love steve carrell
[03:15] <jdong> ajmitch: hehe, we've been joking a bit about that too :)
[03:15] <bhale> jdub: oh really? i seemed to remember you saying otherwise
[03:15] <jdub> it's not as good
[03:15] <ajmitch> jdong: I know I wouldn't want a random person assigning me work
[03:15] <jdub> but fun to watch, lamost entirely for the differences in humour
[03:16] <jdub> i'm glad it's not a total disaster though
[03:16] <keescook> ajmitch: thanks, I'll see if I can convince them not to do that.  :)
[03:16] <realist> keescook: it's been assigned to pitti, should I presume they will be bringing it up with mdz?
[03:17] <keescook> realist: pitti tends to do tzdata updates, but if you want it done in <2 weeks, you'll need to talk to mdz.  pitti is usually on irc in about 6 hours, though.
[03:17] <LaserJock> jdub: I like it, but I haven't seen the "real" version
[03:17] <mdz> realist: I was the one who assigned it to pitti
[03:18] <realist> mdz, so we'll see an update in <2days ?
[03:22] <ajmitch> realist: perth dst?
[03:22] <mdz> realist: I am not offering a guarantee; I've asked pitti to look into it when he comes in
[04:19] <towsonu2003> hi
[05:37] <fabbione> morning
[05:37] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[05:48] <Burgundavia> ok, stuck. Aside from GNOME 2.17 and the new kernel, what else has been changed in Feisty that makes it interesting to end users?
[05:55] <jdub> FREEDOM.
[05:55] <Burgundavia> right
[05:55] <jdub> wait, no, that's coming in the next release.
[05:55] <Burgundavia> that might not be construed as a "feature"
[05:55] <jdub> freedom is megapixel.
[05:55] <Burgundavia> the loss of it, rather
[05:55] <jdub> are you looking for features or benefits? :)
[05:56] <Burgundavia> given this is the Herd 1 announcement, is is largely features driven
[05:59] <jdub> i'm trying to think what's leapt out at me in the logs
[05:59] <infinity> New glibc, though I doubt "end users" care.
[05:59] <Burgundavia> does it affect developers?
[05:59] <infinity> Mostly, it's just "lots of shiny new syncs from Debian, plus an updated toolchain, kernel, and GNOME"
[05:59] <Burgundavia> cause some of this is also telling developers what is coming
[06:00] <infinity> Well, it affects developers that want to use shiny new glibc features, sure.
[06:01] <_ion> Startup based on upstart jobs!
[06:01] <orkid> hehey, someone lef the filenames at edgy!
[06:01] <Burgundavia> is glibc consider part of the toolchain?
[06:01] <orkid> left*
[06:01] <_ion> Oh, "*has* been". Sorry.
[06:01] <Burgundavia> _ion: has that landed yet?
[06:01] <jdub> according to launchpad, fisty is frozen
[06:01] <Burgundavia> yep, for Herd 1 release
[06:01] <jdub> ahr
[06:02] <jdub> zis makes ze sense
[06:02] <infinity> Burgundavia: We consider it part of the toolchain, due to our bootstrap order.  Other opinions may vary. :)
[06:02] <infinity> Burgundavia: We lump the kernel in there too, after all.
[06:02] <jdub> Burgundavia: oh, how about the new cd burning stack?
[06:02] <orkid> ps. cdimage.ubuntu.com daily snapshot image files still say 'edgy' although page heading is feisty...
[06:02] <Burgundavia> infinity: can you pm me three or four sentences on the new stuff?
[06:03] <Burgundavia> jdub: wodim for cdrecord? how does that really change things?
[06:03] <jdub> Burgundavia: about as much as prozac changes things
[06:03] <jdong> fisty... why does that sound like a bad x-rated.... never mind
[06:03] <infinity> Burgundavia: Best to ask jbailey for copy on the new glibc.  I haven't pored over the "what's new, and why do you care" stuff, much, I care more that it remains backward compatible and continues to work. :)
[06:03] <Burgundavia> jdong: bad gutter
[06:03] <Burgundavia> right, ok
[06:05] <fabbione> Burgundavia: there is a glibc changelog in the package if you really want to dig in under the hood
[06:05] <Burgundavia> fabbione: ugh. No thanks. I want the 3 sentences for developers and end users
[06:05] <fabbione> but probably the most significant change is the hash thingy. hell.. what's it's name...
[06:06] <fabbione> well grep "hash" in the build log
[06:06] <jdong> fabbione: DT_GNU_HASH?
[06:06] <fabbione> jdong: that one
[06:06] <jdong> the thing that works miracles on KDE performance :)
[06:06] <fabbione> and OOo
[06:06] <Burgundavia> right, lovely
[06:06] <jdong> at least I _think_ that's why FC6's KDE is so blazing fast
[06:07] <jdong> does it still bloat binaries with like a 2MB hashing field, or has that been long fixed?
[06:12] <fabbione> jdong: it's enabled by default and nobody noticed any bloat
[06:13] <fabbione> it's done at glibc level
[06:13] <fabbione> so it's should be transparent afaik
[06:13] <jdong> fabbione: ok, cool. There was a gentoo blogpost about how DT_GNU_HASH makes the hash section gigantic compared to the old hash
[06:13] <jdong> (like 2.1MB for some KDE apps?!)
[06:14] <fabbione> jdong: dunno... i have no data to prove either that i am right or wrong
[06:14] <fabbione> a debdiff on some kde package could show that
[06:14] <jdong> or just checking the size of say kdebase on edgy vs feisty...
[06:15] <Burgundavia> hmm, anybody got any good guesses on stuff that will land in Herd 2?
[06:15] <infinity> Burgundavia: Some random feature specs, some other stuff, and some things?
[06:16] <jdong> automatix!
[06:16] <infinity> We don't have Herd 2 scheduled, so who knows.
[06:16] <infinity> It should be vaguely around the ImportFreeze, though, so likely just "more new packages".
[06:16] <infinity> Most spec work should land after that.
[06:17] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:34] <boitono> I am not a developer nor do I wish to be but I think I have found the cause of bug #47768, it seems that udev does not have the persistent storage rules loaded into the generic kernel's initrd.  They are however present in the 386 variant of the kernel which boots just fine on my system.  the file should exist under /etc/udev/rules.d/.  Since the kernel is passed only a UUID during boot I believe this is necessary but as far as wh
[06:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47768 in initramfs-tools "Mount Root Files System Failed" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47768
[06:35] <infinity> boitono: Please follow up to the bug with your findings, telling us on IRC will just lead to your comments getting lost in the backscroll.
[06:36] <boitono> I am not sure on the validity of the findings, are the UUIDs found in grub's menu.lst and udev persistent storage related?
[06:37] <infinity> Should be.
[06:38] <boitono> would there be a valid reason for leaving them out in an initrd?
[06:39] <infinity> mkdir -p ${DESTDIR}/etc/udev/rules.d
[06:39] <infinity> for rules in 00-init.rules 05-options.rules 20-names.rules 65-persistent-storage.rules 90-modprobe.r
[06:39] <infinity> ules; do cp -p /etc/udev/rules.d/$rules ${DESTDIR}/etc/udev/rules.d
[06:39] <infinity> done
[06:39] <infinity> According to that, it should be copied into the initrd.
[06:41] <boitono> ok then, when I "get around to it" I'll post something on the bug tracker, it's been open since may so I don't think there's much rush ;-)
[06:44] <boitono> infinity: where did you find those segments of code?
[06:45] <infinity> boitono: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/udev
[06:47] <boitono> where can I find the script that created the initrd that lives in the ubuntu repository?
[06:49] <infinity> boitono: There is no initrd in the repository, it's generated on your system.
[06:50] <boitono> infinity: Really? when ever I install new copy of ubuntu the initrd is automatically generated on my PC?
[06:51] <infinity> Yes.
[07:03] <infinity> elkbuntu: I could use a few dozen.
[07:03] <elkbuntu> hehe
[07:05] <towsonu2003> anyone awake at ubuntu-bugs? ;)
[07:06] <mnepton> only the hippies.
[07:06] <towsonu2003> lol
[07:07] <towsonu2003> I'll be bold enough to ask it here than: how do you debug program hangs? if it were a crash, you'd probably use gdb -what to use for hangs?
[07:07] <boitono> infinity: FYI making a new initrd seems to have done the trick, what is causing the problem is still a mystery to me
[07:08] <boitono> I'll file something on the ubuntu bug tracker thingy some time next week when I get a chance but if someone wants to beat me to the punch by all means
[07:09] <infinity> towsonu2003: Attach strace to it and see what it's up to.
[07:09] <ademan> doko: a moment of your time?
[07:11] <towsonu2003> infinity, would that be enough? I doubt I will be able to reproduce the hang once I reboot or something. So I wanna put every bi of info I can provide in the bug report :)
[07:11] <infinity> towsonu2003: It's a start, anyway.
[07:12] <towsonu2003> infinity, okay thanks :)
[07:14] <doko> ademan: about what?
[07:14] <ademan> doko: well i sent you an email, which i got from launchpad, but i'm having major problems with the eclipse-cdt
[07:15] <ademan> the current versions of the eclipse-cdt and eclipse in the repositories don't work together
[07:15] <ademan> as a result i've been trying to package the eclipse-cdt for the past week
[07:15] <ademan> but unfortunately not only is this my first package, but it's a java package, and i just CAN'T get it to work
[07:16] <ademan> so my first question is: where did you get the eclipse source code from? because the sdk supposedly contains the source code, but it doesn't look anything like the source tree in the current package...
[07:18] <ademan> and i suppose i didn't have a second question, just any tips or tricks, because someone in #ubuntu-motu said you were a master of java packages
[07:20] <Treenaks> ademan: apt-get source eclipse
[07:20] <Treenaks> should work
[07:21] <ademan> Treenaks: well i meant where did he obtain the upstream source
[07:23] <Treenaks> ademan: look in debian/copyright in the source package
[07:24] <ademan> alright i'll check that out
[07:24] <ademan> thanks
[07:26] <doko> ademan: cdt needs to be updated, which is not yet done (and I won't have time to do it)
[07:27] <ademan> doko: right, i'm attempting to do it but failing miserably
[07:33] <ademan> so i was hoping you might have some words of wisdom for packaging it, since i understand you're the eclipse package maintainer
[07:33] <ademan> and i assume the eclipse-cdt is distributed in similar ways
[07:39] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: you awake yet?
[07:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:01] <Burgundavia> morning dholbach
[08:12] <sladen> mumblemumblemorning
[08:14] <ademan> doko: so is there any sort of hint you might be able to give me?  More specifically where to get the correct source, the SDK download from the eclipse website apparently contains source, but its split up in an extremely wierd fashion
[08:15] <doko> ademan: sorry, no. I never worked on -cdt myself
[08:16] <ademan> hrm ok, well i guess i'll just continue to butt my head up against the wall, if you think of something i'll be lurking
[08:33] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: thanks
[08:33] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: yes
[08:33] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd1 <-- still last edits pending
[08:38] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: yay, thanks.
[08:39] <Burgundavia> no worries
[08:57] <lucas> hello
[09:01] <siretart> hi lucas 
[09:06] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir: page is basically done. Needs to be move to the website upon launch of Herd 1. Is that likely in the next 9 hours?
[09:08] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: I hope so, yes, but I can deal with it if you want to go to bed.
[09:08] <Burgundavia> ok, thanks
[09:08] <Burgundavia> mdke might be able to help you as well
[09:10] <mdke> I won't be around during 9-6 GMT because of work. But there are a good few with website access, newz is the best option, I guess
[09:10] <Burgundavia> middle of newz night
[09:11] <mdke> he gets up though
[09:11] <Mithrandir> I'll deal with it one way or another, I'm sure it's not going to be a problem.
[09:12] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:12] <Burgundavia> mdke: how do I get access to the website image uploading palce?
[09:13] <mdke> Burgundavia: you can't, afaik. You can use attachments though
[09:13] <Burgundavia> matt galvin got access somehow
[09:14] <mdke> Burgundavia: you could ask him then
[09:14] <Burgundavia> I will ask newz
[10:11] <Hobbsee> because it doesnt like you?
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: hiya, how's life?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: not great at the moment, grandparent-- as of this afternoon
[10:12] <Hobbsee> apart from that, it's good :)
[10:12] <cjwatson> oof
[10:12] <Mithrandir> ouch. :-(
[10:12] <Mithrandir> sad to hear that.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> rather
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yourself?
[10:13] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I have this release which I'm trying to put out, but which keeps acting up, apart from that, I'm fine.
[10:13] <Mithrandir> puppy's asleep, which is always good.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: hehe - it's not working?
[10:14] <StevenK> Mithrandir: How old is the puppy?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> StevenK: ~3.5 months.
[10:14] <cjwatson> gar, ubiquity crash
[10:14] <Mithrandir> I just accepted the new d-i which I forgot to do before crashing last night.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> haha
[10:14] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Ah, neat. My "puppy" is just over a year old now.
[10:15] <cjwatson> cache._cache SHOULD be iterable, damnit
[10:15] <StevenK> cjwatson: I've found python-apt is well, crap.
[10:15] <cjwatson> it mostly just needs more standard python protocol support
[10:16] <cjwatson> instead of things that look like dicts but aren't quite
[10:16] <StevenK> And not cause Python to segfault
[10:16] <cjwatson> haven't had that problem
[10:16] <StevenK> I was mightly suprised to get a bug against Linda saying "It segfaults" :-)
[10:27] <mvo> cjwatson: if you let me know what you need, I can add the required code to the python interface. "apt.Cache" is iteratable
[10:36] <cjwatson> mvo: 'Cache._cache["package"] ' works but but '"package" in _cache' does not. This is unintuitive
[10:36] <cjwatson> s/but //
[10:37] <mvo> cjwatson: what feature do you need from cache._cache that is not available via "apt.Cache" ?
[10:37] <mvo> (not that apt.Cache has many features, but I wonder what should be added next :)
[10:38] <cjwatson> mvo: furthermore you can get stuff from Cache.keys() for which Cache._cache[key]  fails; https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/67689
[10:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 67689 in ubiquity "installer crashed" [Undecided,Fix released]  
[10:38] <cjwatson> mvo: I'm using cache._depcache.IsInstBroken and I need an element of cache._cache to pass to that
[10:40] <mvo> cjwatson: how do you install stuff? the pkg.markInstall() function should not allow a broken cache 
[10:41] <cjwatson> mvo: I want to roll back gracefully if there are broken packages, by marking them keep rather than install again
[10:41] <cjwatson> see ubiquity/scripts/install.py
[10:42] <cjwatson> (said rollback has been implemented since dapper)
[10:51] <mvo> cjwatson: hm, I checked out https://code.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/ubiquity/trunk and can't find ubiquity/scripts/install.py in there. do I have the wrong branch?
[11:01] <cjwatson> mvo: the initial "ubiquity/" was referring to the entire checkout
[11:01] <cjwatson> mvo: so scripts/install.py
[11:03] <mvo> thanks
[12:09] <jonh_wendell> morning, pitti
[12:12] <pitti> hi jonh_wendell, how are you?
[12:12] <jonh_wendell> fine, pitti! i've seen you has activated back your lang repo
[12:14] <pitti> jonh_wendell: yeah, carlos pointed out that it was inactive, sorry for that
[12:14] <pitti> jonh_wendell: simply forgot to turn it on again
[12:14] <carlos> pitti: actually, jordi detected it ;-)
[12:15] <jonh_wendell> pitti, when will it available at edgy-updates?
[12:15] <jordi> yeah, yeah. I should have a statue in the Ubuntu Plaza. :)
[12:16] <jonh_wendell> :)
[12:17] <pitti> jonh_wendell: next Monday, according to schedule
[12:18] <jonh_wendell> pitti, really?
[12:18] <pitti> first Monday every month
[12:18] <jonh_wendell> i must alert my translation team
[12:18] <pitti> whip'em up :-p
[12:19] <jonh_wendell> it will be the first lang update in edgy, right?
[12:20] <pitti> yep
[12:34] <cjwatson> anyone with bright ideas about why feisty doesn't boot in vmware? can't find the root filesystem
[12:34] <cjwatson> and indeed there's no /sys/block/hda
[12:34] <cjwatson> however, installation works, so I'm assuming something's missing in the initramfs
[12:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ubiquity 1.3.1 uploaded: fixes a crash, an infinite loop, and a couple of minor issues; please accept
[12:41] <Mithrandir>  7 files changed, 711 insertions(+), 2483315 deletions(-)
[12:42] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: that's a bunch of deletions..
[12:44] <Mithrandir> oh, stopped shipping some .so-s in the source.
[12:44] <jonh_wendell> pitti, will translations made until sunday get in edgy-updates for monday?
[12:45] <pitti> jonh_wendell: not sure about the mirror delay, but they might make it; carlos? ^
[12:45] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: stopped shipping a bunch of d-i/source/console-setup/ (again - it only crept back into 1.3.0 by accident)
[12:45] <cjwatson> if you look at 1.3.0 you'll see a corresponding bunch of additions
[12:45] <carlos> pitti: which package will you get?
[12:45] <carlos> Monday's one?
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: yes
[12:46] <carlos> jonh_wendell: if everything goes well, anything done until Sunday at midnight (UTC time)
[12:46] <jonh_wendell> carlos, thanks
[12:46] <jonh_wendell> pitti, thanks
[12:52] <cjwatson> Hmm. Nothing obviously missing from the initramfs that should break feisty
[12:54] <ailean> hi Hobbsee, sabdfl 
[12:54] <Hobbsee> hey ailean 
[12:54] <Hobbsee> s/open day/open week/
[12:55] <sabdfl> hey guys
[12:55] <sabdfl> open week was awesome - thanks to jono and the discussion leaders
[12:55] <sabdfl> fresher's day today
[12:55] <jono> :)
[12:55] <jono> the discussion leaders have done an excellent job, really have
[12:56] <ailean> sabdfl, i've really enjoyed it - I reckon more things like this are the key to getting more community involvement. i didn't have a clue where to start (and still don't really) but at least I'm pointing in the right direction now :)
[12:56] <ailean> and the discussion leaders have been very prepared, friendly, and kept good control of the "classroom"
[12:57] <ailean> so thanks :)
[12:57] <Hobbsee> jono: havent run into spammers yet, i assume?
[12:57] <jono> Hobbsee, nope :)
[12:58] <Hobbsee> jono: guess they exhausted themselves on the weekend when breaking freenode.  *crosses fingers*
[12:58] <jono> ailean, there will be more Open Weeks :)
[12:58] <ailean> to spam the classroom? not even microsoft would do that
[12:58] <Hobbsee> ailean: it's been done before.
[12:58] <ailean> great jono
[12:58] <Hobbsee> ailean: botnets to close down all of freenode are also a fun tactic
[12:58] <ailean> Hobbsee, that's a feat of pointlessness
[12:58] <Hobbsee> ailean: true that.  i dont claim to know *why* they do that.  just that they do.
[12:58] <ailean> lol
[01:00] <ailean> jono, how often are you thinking of having open days/weeks?
[01:00] <jono> ailean, that is not decided yet, I am going to think about it carefully
[01:01] <bhale> jono: now is a perfect time in the release cycle
[01:01] <jono> bhale, indeed
[01:01] <ailean> jono, well my tuppence is that early in development seems like a good time to have them, so they could be a few weeks after every release . . .
[01:01] <jono> yeah
[01:01] <bhale> jono: would seem doable twice a year just this time, to me
[01:01] <bhale> a bit after summits
[01:01] <jono> I am keen to gather feedback on this, so do let me know what you think people :)
[01:02] <pitti> once per cycle sounds about right to me
[01:02] <pitti> more would exhaust devs, fewer would make new contributors wait forever
[01:03] <ailean> i don't know if i agree. one schoolmaster teaching a load of pupils can achieve more than he/she can do on his/her own
[01:04] <ailean> i wonder if a series of tutorial videos released on youtube would be a good idea...
[01:04] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: mind if I make initramfs-tools add mptspi again (maybe all of drivers/message/fusion, haven't checked yet)? regression from edgy, breaks vmware installs
[01:05] <pitti> ailean: yes, but it just takes a while to collect experience and knowledge
[01:05] <PecisDarbs> elmo: ping? :)
[01:06] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: oh, point.  Please do.
[01:06] <Mithrandir> (please also accept it once you've uploaded)
[01:20] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: can you stick a comment in the lp_publish crontab with your name when you disable the publisher?
[01:20] <Chipzz> hrrrrm
[01:20] <Chipzz> I was reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkRoaming
[01:21] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ack.
[01:21] <Chipzz> and I was wondering: is it possible to have dhclient *NOT* being run when switching to a specific network?
[01:21] <cjwatson> ta
[01:22] <Mithrandir> (done)
[01:22] <Chipzz> situation here is like this: I have a wireless network, and the wired network is linked to the network of a friend of mine a couple of rooms further
[01:23] <Chipzz> my (and his) routes and networks are routed over a cable
[01:23] <Chipzz> so I have connectivity with my ip-range on his wireless network
[01:23] <Chipzz> so all that would be needed would be to change essid, but not the actual IP
[01:24] <Chipzz> (yes I know, this is a corner-case, but I'm just wondering if that would be possible)
[01:44] <pitti> ah-haaa
[01:46] <pitti> ogra: ping?
[01:47] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: initramfs-tools accepted, if you want to run the publisher again
[01:51] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: running
[02:05] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/frozen-bubble/+bug/72543 needs to grow a list of the Ubuntu changes, as per DeveloperResources.
[02:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72543 in frozen-bubble "Please sync 2.0.0-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[02:06] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i believe you're right.  
[02:09] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: done, although i didnt write the original report.  it was just a change to the desktop file, taken into debian.
[02:09] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you confirmed it, though
[02:09] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: that i did.
[02:10] <Mithrandir> and you subscribed ubuntu-archive which means you though it was complete.
[02:10] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: pft, merges > studies.
[02:10] <Hobbsee> you're right
[02:10] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yeah well.
[02:11] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: no harm done.
[02:11] <Hobbsee> okay
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i'll just leave the merges/syncs to everyone else?  that being said, i've figured out how to paste multiple lines in vi now, although i havent figured out a quick way.
[02:12] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: there's a requestsync script, you're aware of that?
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: sure, i helped fix it.
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: that's what i use
[02:12] <StevenK> Mithrandir: Which is busted when packages.debian.org is sucking
[02:13] <Mithrandir> StevenK: oh joy.
[02:13] <StevenK> Indeed.
[02:13] <StevenK> And HE doesn't seem to care much.
[02:13] <StevenK> What do you expect from a Lintian co-maintainer.
[02:13] <cjwatson> thppt
[02:15] <_ion> hobbsee: What are you currently using to paste multiple lines?
[02:16] <cjwatson> localechooser really does hurt my brain sometimes
[02:16] <Hobbsee> _ion: standard copy pastes in konsole, which, incidently, work in vi
[02:17] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: :help usr_04
[02:18] <_ion> hobbsee: To copy 5 lines, 5yy. In vim you can "paint" multiple lines with V, normal movement, then y. Also: yap yanks a paragraph etc.
[02:18] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:19] <Hobbsee> thanks
[02:19] <_ion> y2ap = yank two paragraphs. Use ip ("inner paragraph") instead of ap ("a paragraph") to leave out the empty line after the paragraph.
[02:20] <_ion> Replace y with d to cut instead of copy.
[02:23] <pitti> 'vim in 5 lines' :)
[02:24] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:33] <_ion> pitti: You mean "0.0004% of vim in 5 lines"? :-)
[02:33] <pitti> _ion: yeah :)
[02:33] <pitti> erm, s/dares/fears/
[02:50] <bhale> you can always learn a new trick in vim :)
[02:51] <cjwatson> I think I need lunch and coffee first
[02:52] <jdong> sorry cjwatson.... need a hug? :)
[02:52] <jdong> but it's been a while since you guys have processed them, with UDS and all
[02:53] <cjwatson> no offfence, but if I need a hug my wife is downstairs ;)
[02:55] <jdong> hehe
[02:59] <cjwatson> jdong: bug 57748> did you test the current version in edgy or feisty?
[02:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 57748 in dapper-backports "Please backport moodle and moodle-book" [Low,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/57748
[02:59] <jdong> cjwatson: feisty
[02:59] <cjwatson> ok
[02:59] <jdong> cjwatson: unless otherwise said, I used feisty versions
[02:59] <cjwatson> (I can do either, just need to know)
[02:59] <jdong> good to know what either can be done though :)
[03:01] <cjwatson> the script just takes a source from one suite and feeds it to another, munging the version; it's fairly general
[03:01] <jdong> cool
[03:02] <jdong> would it be feasible for me to have a script that can choose from one suite or another? Right now I just have feisty deb-src in sources.list
[03:02] <jdong> I suppose parsing Sources.gz could be an option...
[03:03] <cjwatson> apt-get source doesn't support pinning (or similar) last I checked, but sure, you could do it by hand fairly straightforwardly
[03:04] <jdong> I'll have to give that a try when I get some spare time
[03:04] <cjwatson> as time goes on, you're probably going to need to get more conservative for purely practical reasons - keeping stuff from feisty+n building on dapper will be tricky
[03:05] <jdong> yeah, already it's starting to get difficult to get things workin in Dapper... python and mono are both off-limits for one...
[03:06] <jdong> dapper-backports will slowly and gracefully stop one day.... hopefully without too many "it's an ***ing LTS release" e-mails ;-)
[03:06] <cjwatson> there's still the direct core-dev option open, although that's more manpower-intensive
[03:07] <cjwatson> and the longer that can be held off, the better
[03:08] <jdong> lol :)
[03:08] <jdong> but yeah, it would be cool if someday backports is something done by the dev that uploads a new release
[03:08] <jdong> heck in the meantime, "do not backport this ya fools" messages in the changelogs can even save me time and grief :)
[03:09] <bhale> I personally run latest development code and dont have the means or interest in backporting to stable
[03:09] <bhale> you could recruit more team if need be
[03:11] <thom> bhale: +1 (nor do i think backports make sense in all but certain specific circumstance)
[03:11] <jdong> yeah, I get that much, developers usually don't have much care for stable releases and updates :)
[03:11] <bhale> thom: they make sense to me as an opt in for some users
[03:12] <jdong> thom: lots of users like to keep their system fresh with new upstream version packages, even at possible risk of instability
[03:12] <jdong> but are not daring enough to go full-out development version
[03:12] <bhale> I used to think that was a "you cant have your cake and eat it too"
[03:13] <jdong> mmm, cake... I'm hungry
[03:13] <bhale> but since we agreed to do things officially now I don't really mind
[03:14] <bhale> beagle 0.2.13 is a good case of something that is beneficial imo
[03:14] <jdong> yeah, I think I approved that
[03:14] <bhale> rock on.
[03:15] <jdong> yeah, I remember reading that it had that CPU pegging bug
[03:15] <cjwatson> jdong: in practice I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll be making the main development team responsible for backport
[03:15] <cjwatson> s
[03:15] <bhale> there are a few of those, beagle has corner cases based on the wacky stuff you have on your disk
[03:15] <cjwatson> it's too much of a dislocation from people's normal work
[03:16] <cjwatson> even if people had it all set up
[03:16] <jdong> yeah, I got that kind of reaction when backports first started
[03:16] <jdong> it was kind of a "nobody wants it" reaction from the developer and a 30gb/hr downloading reaction from the users....
[03:16] <cjwatson> high CPU load is an example of something that could potentially be a candidate for -updates more than -backports
[03:16] <jdong> cjwatson: backports is the lazy way out when the specific fixes couldn't be isolated :)
[03:16] <cjwatson> assuming the fix can be selectively backported rather than just "here's a new upstream version"
[03:17] <bhale> cjwatson: it is a delta of several upstream versions
[03:17] <cjwatson> bhale: hence "assuming". I'm sure the fix was a small number of changesets in there somewhere
[03:17] <jdong> cjwatson: what's our policy on upstream versions in the case of a completely awful package?
[03:17] <jdong> like kdesvn comes to mind....
[03:17] <cjwatson> jdong: I think that's closer to the reason developers were uncomfortable with it (lazy way out)
[03:17] <jdong> the edgy shipped version just is a segfault magnet
[03:18] <cjwatson> upstream versions in -updates you mean? no, not even then, and possibly especially not then
[03:18] <cjwatson> if it's completely awful, then we're likely to be even more cautious
[03:18] <jdong> ok
[03:18] <cjwatson> somebody's got to do the work of figuring out the isolated fix
[03:19] <cjwatson> particularly after the X update fiasco, we just can't go dumping new upstream code into -updates without thinking very carefully indeed about it
[03:19] <jdong> mmm
[03:33] <cjwatson> jdong: bug 55412> subject line says 1.4.2, you didn't specify a release, edgy has 1.4.2, feisty has 1.4.4. which should I pick?
[03:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 55412 in dapper-backports "Conky 1.4.2" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55412
[03:36] <cjwatson> jdong: bug 60749> dapper-backports already has gnome-commander 1.2.0-3.1~dapper1. Do you specifically need a backport of 1.2.0-3.2?
[03:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60749 in Baltix "Please backport Gnome-Commander 1.2" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60749
[03:38] <cjwatson> jdong: there are quite a few of these backports I think should be stable release updates, really - I mean, come on, missing dependencies? bug 45203
[03:38] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 45203 in libmail-spf-query-perl "missing dependence on libsys-hostname-long-perl" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/45203
[03:44] <jdong> cjwatson: <conky> go for feisty, gnome-commander... oops that's a dupe, and the SRU-candidates, I'll be more critical of those in the future
[03:45] <jdong> I was assuming that since in most of those cases it was a developer who assigned it to backports that SRU wasn't desired...
[03:45] <cjwatson> I think many MOTUs are not yet really aware of the SRU process; if you could exercise some QA on those, that would be good
[03:46] <jdong> cjwatson: ok, I certainly will from this point on
[03:47] <cjwatson> thanks
[03:49] <seb128> jdong: hi
[03:49] <jdong> hi seb128
[03:49] <seb128> jdong: any edgy backport of gaim 2.0beta5 planned?
[03:50] <jdong> seb128: I've been kinda holding that off because of the whole plugin thing
[03:50] <seb128> jdong: it fixes a load of bug and would make upstream and users happy
[03:50] <seb128> jdong: what plugin thing?
[03:50] <jdong> namely all have to be rebuilt
[03:50] <seb128> ah
[03:50] <jdong> backported, to be more precise...
[03:50] <seb128> we didn't rebuild any for feisty yet :p
[03:50] <seb128> I didn't know
[03:50] <jdong> hehe :)
[03:50] <seb128> are you sure?
[03:51] <jdong> yes
[03:51] <jdong> right now I'm running backported beta5
[03:51] <jdong> and a lot of my plugins are greyed out
[03:51] <seb128> why do they break and how?
[03:51] <jorgp> some of the plugins have to be bumped to go with the beta5 of gaim
[03:51] <jdong> when they're compiled they contain a version header, if it doesn't match with gaim's version, gaim disables them
[03:51] <jdong> sorta like what the kernel does
[03:52] <seb128> jdong: and do we have so many plugins?
[03:52] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:52] <seb128> like it's hard job to backport them?
[03:52] <jdong> need rebuild: gaim-extendedprefs
[03:52] <jdong> gaim-encryption
[03:52] <jdong> gaim-xmms-remote
[03:52] <jdong> gaim-guifications
[03:52] <jdong> gaim-otr
[03:52] <jdong> gaim-hotkeys
[03:52] <jdong> need new upstream: gaim-encryption
[03:52] <seb128> ok, forget about it then
[03:52] <jdong> will not compile: gaim-guifications [who cares, we have libgaim-notify anyway] 
[03:53] <seb128> I've done an unofficial backport anyway
[03:53] <jdong> seb128: I mean, if it's something you want done, I'll put some time into it and make sure those are the builds needed
[03:53] <seb128> don't bother
[03:53] <jdong> ok then
[03:54] <dholbach> hi sbalneav
[03:54] <seb128> I'm wondering if anybody is using those
[03:54] <cjwatson> bug 52563> yeesh, what's with the cheerleading on that one?
[03:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52563 in edgy-backports "Please backport Stardict 2.4.8" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52563
[03:54] <seb128> that's weird nobody complained yet on feisty
[03:54] <jorgp> seb128, url for backport?
[03:54] <cjwatson> "I need it! Ooh! Omg! Omg!"
[03:54] <seb128> jorgp: no backport :p I'm not going to point a broken package :p
[03:55] <seb128> in fact that's a rebuilt of the feisty package I point to people on bugs if we suspect that a bug is fixed by the new beta
[03:55] <dholbach> holy cow!
[03:55] <jorgp> ok, I was just about to compile my own backport from feisty
[03:55] <cjwatson> jdong: I've got to go out now for a bit, but I'll keep going with the backports when I get back
[03:55] <seb128> jorgp: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/gaim-edgy/ but shhhhh
[03:55] <jdong> cjwatson: you have no idea what kind of whacky users I have come in contact with :)
[03:56] <jorgp> hehe, thanks seb128 
[03:56] <jdong> cjwatson: and take your time :)
[03:56] <seb128> jorgp: np ;)
[03:56] <jdong> seb128: you might actually want to publicize that more :)
[03:56] <jdong> seb128: people have been on the forums with lots of various unofficial packages
[03:56] <seb128> grumpf
[03:56] <seb128> well
[03:56] <jdong> ranging from legitimate rebuilds of feisty to checkinstalled nightmares
[03:56] <Amaranth> people on the forums run checkinstall and post that
[03:56] <seb128> if they go that way maybe official backports would be appreciated then
[03:56] <cjwatson> seb128: could you use a more backportish version number?
[03:57] <jdong> on second thoughts I might actually backport it :)
[03:57] <cjwatson> seb128: 2.0.0+beta5-3ubuntu2~edgy1 is standard at the moment
[03:57] <seb128> cjwatson: good idea, thank you
[03:57] <seb128> will do that
[03:58] <Amaranth> but spelled right
[03:58] <Amaranth> that way you can tell it came from me
[03:58] <cjwatson> Amaranth: works for you because that's << official backports, since 'a' < 'd'
[03:58] <cjwatson> but I'm not sure that's good for everyone
[03:58] <Amaranth> oh, right
[03:59] <jdong> ~0amaranth1 :)
[03:59] <Amaranth> we're about 20 releases away from me having to worry about the alphabet :)
[04:00] <cjwatson> I think we probably ought to change the versioning scheme before we get to 'u', actually
[04:00] <cjwatson> ~ubuntu7.04 etc.
[04:00] <jdong> cjwatson: originally I was using numeric releases
[04:00] <jdong> ~6.06backport1 and similar
[04:00] <cjwatson> I'm uncomfortable with the alphabeticity of the current backports scheme
[04:00] <cjwatson> yeah, I think that's better
[04:00] <jdong> alphabeticity :)
[04:00] <cjwatson> I just inherited this from elmo's script
[04:01] <_ion> alphabeticitilessness
[04:01] <cjwatson> floccinaucinihilipilification
[04:01] <cjwatson> ANYWAY
[04:01] <jdong> I can't believe you took the time to spell that :)
[04:02] <jdong> argh, you're kidding... there's already a /usr/bin/defrag?
[04:03] <_ion> Depend on the package and divert the file.
[04:03] <jdong> but that's mean :)
[04:03] <jdong> for all I know, /usr/bin/defrag might be saner than my work :d
[04:03] <_ion> (just kidding )
[04:04] <cjwatson> (you can divert a file without depending on the package)
[04:04] <_ion> Ah, right.
[04:04] <jdong> I'll just rename my binary rightfully back to the project name
[04:05] <jdong> instead of stealing defrag
[04:06] <jdong> bleh, lost my fglrx
[04:06] <jdong> that could explain the lag :)
[04:07] <jdong> and not a wise crack out of you guys about closed source proprietary drivers :)
[04:07] <jdong> I need my bling :)
[04:08] <_ion> Using a proprietary driver rewards me with all OpenGL programs segfaulting. :-)
[04:09] <jdong> well tough toenails to you, _ion
[04:09] <jdong> but not using proprietary drivers leaves me with lovely vesa
[04:09] <jdong> and believe me, I don't enjoy window trails in that sense....
[04:28] <hunger> jdong: I know that feeling:-(
[04:29] <hunger> jdong: Even though the ati driver is somewhat better than vesa... it keeps crashing on me whenever nomething only smells of 3D.
[04:29] <jdong> hunger: that's not a choice for me :(
[04:29] <jdong> radeon mobility x1400
[04:29] <hunger> jdong: And the proprietary ATI drivers crash on each suspend or switch from X to console:-(
[04:30] <_ion> hunger: I'm not using suspend, but AFAIK there's some kind of a suspend script that does that for you automatically.
[04:30] <jdong> hunger: ouch, recently??
[04:30] <_ion> Also locks your X session etc.
[04:31] <jdong> hunger: 8.29 fixed a lot of that
[04:31] <hunger> jdong: Yesterday was the last time I tried flaying with the fglrx stuff.
[04:31] <jdong> _ion: no, he's saying he locks up on every chvt
[04:31] <jdong> which happened to me with pre-8.29
[04:31] <_ion> jdong: Ah, thanks for clarification. I misread the line.
[04:31] <jdong> hunger: I take it that you have an older ATI card?
[04:31] <jdong> they seem to get the shaft when it comes to fglrx
[04:32] <jdong> surprisingly fglrx has treated me very well
[04:32] <jdong> as well if not better than nvidia drivers
[04:33] <admin123> cjwatson, are you there?
[04:33] <hunger> jdong: I have a fire gl v3200 IIRC... a mobility thing build into a laptop.
[04:33] <jdong> mmm
[04:33] <hunger> jdong: It is PCIe, so it is not too old.
[04:33] <jdong> I was gonna say
[04:34] <jdong> heh, I guess that explains why some are so anti-fglrx and others (like me) really don't see the argument
[04:34] <jdong> though that's not entirely true
[04:34] <hunger> jdong: Well, the free driver is not really working as well...
[04:34] <jdong> my friend has an older ATI card and fglrx on  it was a completely different beast :)
[04:35] <hunger> jdong: glxgears is a surefire way to freeze my complete box.
[04:36] <jdong> ouch
[04:49] <sjoeboo> question: has herd 1 been released? i was jsut scoping out cdimage.ubuntun.com and don't see it under "releases" but there are daily builds. teh schedule at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule says herd 1 was on the 30th...
[04:50] <jdong> GNU/Hurd 1.0 is out? YES ! FINALLY I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR YEARS oh wait misread that....
[04:50] <ailean> herd 1 is out, yes
[04:50] <pitti> jdong: what? you can't ruin that running gag that has worked for years...
[04:51] <ailean> sjoeboo, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20061201/
[04:51] <jdong> :)
[04:53] <sjoeboo> thanks
[04:56] <vernes> I want to add a grub boot option that will start X without a windowmanager (X :123 & DISPLAY=:123 myapp) How would I implement this without breaking the option to boot 'normally' ?
[04:57] <jdong> vernes: implement that bootpath as a different runlevel in /etc/rcN.d, then pass that runlevel to the kernel
[05:01] <pitti> did anyone already merge network-manager? current feisty version is ftbfs
[05:04] <vernes> jdong: thanks, I'll look into that.
[05:17] <giskard> pitti, me
[05:18] <giskard> but i'm not a core-dev
[05:18] <pitti> giskard: ah, I'm just fixing various bits and pieces of our current feisty n-m to make it build
[05:21] <fdoving> cjwatson: working on the SRU queue today?
[05:43] <ogra> pitti, late pong
[05:44] <pitti> ogra: just a quick question
[05:44] <ogra> shoot
[05:44] <pitti> ogra: I fixed a bug (at least I think so) in dhclient
[05:44] <ogra> ok ?
[05:44] <pitti> ogra: when using it in single-shot mode (-1), it didn't call 'dhclient-script FAIL' on failure
[05:44] <pitti> ogra: does that affect anything in ltsp?
[05:44] <pitti> ogra: I need it for proper zeroconf-networking implementation
[05:45] <ogra> not that i'm aware of, i dont think we use dhclient anywhere in ltsp
[05:45] <pitti> ogra: dhcdbdbdbd calls dhclient with -1 and thus needs that fix
[05:45] <ogra> initramfs uses ipconfig and i think thats about it
[05:45] <pitti> ogra: splendid; thanks
[05:45] <ogra> well, we surely dont use NM in ltsp ;)
[05:45] <pitti> just want to make sure to not break edubuntu
[05:46] <dholbach> pitti: dhcdbdbdbd: HAHAAHAHAHAHAH!
[05:46] <ogra> for fat clients that might count since we install a full desktop on the client, but stil no NM involved
[05:46] <bluefoxicy> ....
[05:47] <pitti> ogra: the result of my fix is, when you do 'dhclient -1 eth1' and there's no answer, you'll get a zeroconf IP automatically
[05:47] <pitti> ogra: shouldn't really hurt, but I wanted to be sure
[05:47] <ogra> oki, i dont see any probs, else i'll still have some months to complain ;)
[05:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: AFAICS I need to do one fix in NetworkManager to get it working for our zeroconf spec
[05:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: in particular, it needs to check whether avahi-autoipd is already running on an interface before doing its own autoip config
[05:50] <bluefoxicy> someone try http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Fpatch-2.6.19.bz2 and see if 1)  It loads; 2)  You can repeatedly find Kconfig
[05:50] <pitti> Mithrandir: if I do that now (shouldn't be intrusive), do I conflict with anything you hack on it?
[05:50] <bluefoxicy> Firefox keeps chewing CPU while loading that page
[05:50] <bluefoxicy> and then eventually just freezes
[06:00] <keescook> goood morning.
[06:00] <kylem> morning kees.
[06:00] <keescook> heya kylem :)
[06:00] <pitti> keescook: morning, brother!
[06:03] <keescook> \\o// *scream*
[06:03] <pitti> *bounce*
[06:04] <keescook> ooh, this will never get old.  :)
[06:05] <seb128> hey keescook
[06:06] <keescook> seb128: say, what's up with evince?  are you only packaging it for ubuntu?
[06:07] <seb128> keescook: what do mean "only"? I'm packaging it for Debian too
[06:07] <jdong> ooh, look at that, buildd now spams me when there's FTBFS'es
[06:07] <jdong> how awesome
[06:07] <jdong> (not like I exactly expected scummvm to build on sparc anyway :D)
[06:07] <keescook> seb128: the version differences between ubuntu and debian confused me.  :)
[06:08] <thom> ok, this is getting disturbing
[06:08] <seb128> keescook: Debian goes with GNOME 2.14 for etch
[06:08] <dholbach> hey thom
[06:08] <seb128> keescook: so evince is 0.4
[06:08] <dholbach>  T H O M ! ! !
[06:08] <keescook> seb128: aah
[06:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure.
[06:36] <dholbach> pitti: what is it this time?
[06:39] <pitti> dholbach: oh, just silly handling of dhcdbd exit statuses
[06:39] <pitti> dholbach: this thing is so full of surprises... :(
[06:40] <pitti> dholbach: I mailed upstream with some cleanup proposals, let's see how they respond
[06:43] <superm1> i was just looking at the buildd queues, if something was missing a dependency, and that dependency just got built - does the buildd have to be prodded to try again, or does it figure it out?
[06:43] <superm1> its in "Dependency wait"
[06:51] <superm1> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/280309 is the buildd queue number
[07:02] <mdz> superm1: it is supposed to figure it out on its own, but may occasionally need nudging
[07:02] <superm1> well i saw that build log had a title of buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-i386.libiec61883_1.1.0-2ubuntu1~dapper1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz so i thought it might need a nudge
[07:03] <mdz> superm1: it looks like libraw1394-dev built weeks ago.
[07:03] <mdz> I'll kick it
[07:04] <mdz> oh, that's dapper-backports, not feisty
[07:04] <superm1> right 
[07:04] <superm1> it built this morning
[07:04] <superm1> at 9ish CST
[07:04] <mdz> even so, it built hours ago
[07:04] <superm1> but libiec took off like 5 minutes after the build finished
[07:04] <superm1> before it synced i'd bet
[07:04] <mdz> anyway I retried libiec61883
[07:05] <superm1> i'd guess its the same situation for all the architectures there: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+builds?build_state=all&build_text=libiec
[07:07] <superm1> still doesnt appear to have taken it though. hm the i386 still didnt grab it correctly.
[07:07] <mdz> hmm, it failed again due to libraw1394 being too old
[07:07] <mdz> infinity: ping
[07:07] <superm1> yea the 1394 that built earlier should have been good: https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/280303
[07:08] <mdz> libraw1394 seems to have built but not been published
[07:13] <gnomefreak> the images arent ready yet?
[07:19] <superm1> mdz, is there something else that has to be done to get it to publish?
[07:20] <mdz> superm1: it isn't intended that it be so, no
[07:20] <mdz> superm1: infinity is the person you need to talk to
[07:20] <superm1> k
[07:22] <superm1> well but looking at it, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/libraw1394 it appears to be published
[07:23] <superm1> could it be something else then?
[07:32] <mdz> superm1: yes, I know what it says, but it's wrong :-)
[07:33] <mdz> the source is published but the binaries aren't
[07:33] <superm1> ah
[07:44] <pitti> Lathiat: here by chance?
[07:57] <keescook> hm, is there a more complete way to get a dump of X fonts besides xlsfonts?
[08:14] <cbx33> hi guys....anyone a python expert here ;)
[08:14] <cbx33> nice one pitti ;)
[08:37] <dinosaur-rus> hi
[08:37] <dinosaur-rus> is Apache 2.2.x (the latest is 2.2.3) package going to be released?
[08:38] <thom> i assume it's been or will be synced into feisty, yes
[08:43] <dinosaur-rus> well, but it could be avaiable in edgy...
[08:43] <dinosaur-rus> but I can wait, don't worry ;))
[08:44] <thom> no, it won't ever hit edgy unless somebody crazy backports it and every apache module
[08:46] <cjwatson> 0
[08:46] <cjwatson> (er)
[08:47] <dinosaur-rus> I meant Apache 2.2.3 was released some months before Edgy
[08:50] <dinosaur-rus> but nothing bad, though
[08:51] <cjwatson> yes, but it had an ABI break and was very complicated to import
[08:51] <cjwatson> thom knows far more details than I expect he really ever wanted to
[08:52] <thom> API and ABI break; look at the pain it caused when we landed it in debian...
[08:55] <thom> but yeah, all sorted for feisty :-)
[09:42] <lifeless> hmm, python-apt folk here, will apt_pkg.ParseSection return all the fields,whether it understands them or not ?
[10:26] <Adri2000> does someone know if debian is also doing the transition from xlibmesa-gl-dev to libgl1-mesa-dev?
[10:28] <tenshu> hello all
[10:29] <tenshu> is anyone working on a web based "front end" for Ubuntu?
[10:30] <phanatic> tenshu: tried webmin?
[10:30] <tenshu> well i meant something specifical to ubuntu
[10:30] <tenshu> excuse my english i'm french
[10:31] <tenshu> i know that ubuntu center project seems to be droped
[10:31] <tenshu> and firefrogz on the french forums started a ajax based interface
[10:32] <tenshu> and he look for someone to work on the "ubuntu side"
[10:32] <tenshu> you shoul look to his topic it is quite aming http://forum.ubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?id=68996
[10:32] <ivoks> for backend?
[10:33] <tenshu> if my nderstanding of backend is ood yes
[10:33] <ivoks> ah, this isn't like webmin
[10:33] <ivoks> this is web interface for desktop
[10:33] <tenshu> (his last development so far are viewable in the end of the topic)
[10:34] <tenshu> yes
[10:34] <tenshu> so far you can just use the webrowser and a few command
[10:35] <ivoks> well, if someone is interested...
[10:35] <tenshu> it could be a good way to extend the ubuntu experience where ever you are
[10:35] <ivoks> i kind of don't belive in web based desktop :)
[10:35] <tenshu> just feel like your at home :)
[10:36] <tenshu> i think it could be really nice tio retrieve your files from school or job
[10:37] <tenshu> or managing whatever you could imagine
[10:37] <ivoks> it would, but i don't think this is good aproach
[10:37] <tenshu> well if anyone wnat to work on it just tell him
[10:37] <tenshu> why that ivoks
[10:38] <ivoks> cause you don't retrive files in thic concept
[10:38] <ivoks> you do retrive content, but...
[10:38] <ivoks> you can't print, you can't close internet connection, etc...
[10:38] <tenshu> well you could do it
[10:38] <ivoks> i guess there is someone interested in this
[10:39] <tenshu> there is a way to send a command to shell through php
[10:39] <LaserJock> sounds kinda like a security nightmare
[10:39] <ivoks> php is running on server
[10:39] <jdong> tenshu: you mean a PHP shell?
[10:40] <jdong> tenshu: do you need more than passthru()?
[10:40] <jdong> lol
[10:40] <tenshu> well i'm not sure i'm not so skilled in php :p
[10:40] <jdong> also I think there are premade scripts for fancier implementations
[10:40] <jdong> but insert security smacking here
[10:40] <ivoks> printing can be done, easily
[10:41] <ivoks> tenshu: there is allready web based desktop project
[10:41] <tenshu> yeah ubuntu center
[10:41] <ivoks> acctually, whole distribution that works like that
[10:42] <ivoks> am, i was thinkging about something else
[10:42] <tenshu> hu there is an other one?
[10:43] <ivoks> yes, i'm trying to recall the name of it :)
[10:43] <jdong> while we're on the topic of horrible security practices....
[10:43] <ivoks> ulteo.com
[10:43] <jdong> anyone have pointers for how I would go about making a passwordless SSH login?
[10:43] <jdong> I mean truly passwordless :D
[10:43] <jdong> and yes I do fully understand the ramifications of what I want to accomplish :)
[10:43] <tenshu>  know about ulteo but it approach isn't good
[10:44] <keescook> jdong: just use a blank ssh passphrase?
[10:44] <jdong> keescook: does that work?
[10:44] <keescook> yeah.  when prompted for your ssh passphrase, just hit enter
[10:44] <jdong> an account with a blank password doesn't trigger a password prompt?
[10:44] <ivoks> jdong: keys?
[10:44] <keescook> hm?
[10:44] <jdong> ivoks: but that requires handing out keys
[10:45] <keescook> jdong: well, you need authorized_keys updated.  Perhaps I don't understand.
[10:45] <jdong> I'm trying to make an ssh account that anyone can connect to with no password prompted
[10:45] <ivoks> jdong: well, yes
[10:45] <keescook> ah
[10:45] <ivoks> ah...
[10:45] <ivoks> anonymous ssh :)
[10:45] <jdong> yeah
[10:45] <keescook> jdong: PAM tricks, I'd assume
[10:45] <jdong> :)
[10:45] <jdong> mmm, sounds lovely
[10:45] <cjwatson> jdong: you need "PermitEmptyPasswords yes" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config, but the consequences are your responsibility alone
[10:46] <jdong> fun
[10:46] <cjwatson> I'd be very careful with that
[10:46] <tenshu> you should ;)
[10:46] <jdong> yeah, I know it's reckless :)
[10:47] <jdong> well, I'm basically trying to create an SSH account on my router that just displays netstat and ip_conntrack on login
[10:47] <jdong> with no other abilities
[10:47] <jdong> only I think ssh would be a bad idea for this :)
[10:47] <keescook> jdong: easier to use authorized_keys with a forced command instead
[10:47] <ivoks> jdong: not good idea
[10:47] <jdong> do forced commands prevent other escape methods?
[10:47] <jdong> like the SSH magic keys?
[10:47] <cjwatson> I'd recommend using pam_access if you're going to go the empty-password route
[10:47] <ivoks> jdong: you can evade .login with ssh
[10:48] <keescook> jdong: I think it's no less secure than what you were going to do instead.  :)
[10:48] <ivoks> jdong: so, one could login and get full control of account
[10:48] <jdong> keescook: my other option was an apache php page that did the same thing\
[10:49] <jdong> and I personally cringe at SSH's ~C ability :)
[10:49] <jdong> so maybe I'll go with the alternative :)
[10:49] <cjwatson> jdong: ~C only allows you to open forwardings, and there's an authorized_keys option to prevent that
[10:49] <cjwatson> no-port-forward
[10:49] <jdong> ooh, ok, that's good to know
[10:49] <cjwatson> sorry, no-port-forwarding
[10:49] <jdong> and opening forwardings could possibly be abusive in my case
[10:50] <ivoks> by all
[10:50] <cjwatson> I always use no-port-forwarding,no-X11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding,no-pty options with forced-command keys
[10:50] <jdong> since it allows a completely different set of firewall rules to be applied...
[10:50] <ivoks> bye even
[10:51] <cjwatson> (well, ~C also allows you to run a local command on the *client* if PermitLocalCommand is set, which it isn't by default; but that's not important here)
[10:52] <cjwatson> I don't think there are real security vulnerabilities in forced commands that you should be worried about; if you spot any, I'd like to know about them
[10:52] <jdong> ok
[10:52] <keescook> me too.  :)
[10:53] <jdong> I might just go the PHP route with this one... and then I can even format the output with prettyness
[10:53] <jdong> though I'm sure someone's already made some kind of script that does that :)
[10:54] <jdong> anyone know of PHP/CGI scripts that display useful stats for routers
[10:54] <jdong> such as nat routings, ifconfig type output.... etc
[10:54] <cjwatson> it's sort of interesting that ssh escapes only work on the master session if you're using session multiplexing. I must investigate why at some point.
[10:55] <jdong> does Linux have any kind of SAK mechanism for console logins at least?
[10:59] <jdong> or at least some other way to deter from falling victim to phony login prompts...
[11:08] <Adri2000> (re-asking) does someone know if debian is also doing the transition from xlibmesa-gl-dev to libgl1-mesa-dev?
[11:10] <LaserJock> Adri2000: I really wouldn't worry about it
[11:34] <superm1> elmo, ping
[11:39] <mdke> superm1: it's late, and the weekend, don't hold your breath. Best to email if its important
[11:39] <superm1> oh, i should have looked and saw elmo was away.
[11:39] <superm1> not that important
[11:39] <superm1> i'll just ping'm on monday