/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/12/02/#ubuntu-classroom.txt

=== StK [n=StK@lie77-1-82-231-102-85.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tcort_ [n=tcort@pool-71-169-131-51.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ongel [n=guenther@80.122.132.14] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ivegum [n=ivar@ti400720a080-10981.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tcort [n=tcort@gentoo/developer/tcort] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== maniacmusician [n=maniacmu@24-151-30-234.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mr3vil [n=mr3vil@p50817CC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jjtec1 [n=glen@68.53.206.214] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== leks [n=ale@8.101.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== theCore [n=alex@modemcable229.181-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jjtec1 [n=glen@68.53.206.214] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
jendaThere is a quiz in #ubuntu-trivia starting in a few minutes! The lucky winner will be getting a free Ubuntu Poster!!!12:28
=== macconline [n=macconli@190.37.61.30] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tcort_ [n=tcort@pool-71-169-128-38.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== graham_100 [n=chatzill@host81-129-206-109.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
graham_100maniacmusician12:32
=== jackrazz [n=jackrazz@209-144-236-189-dyndsl.oplink.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tcort__ [n=tcort@pool-71-161-222-132.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ivegum [n=ivar@ti400720a080-10981.bb.online.no] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== rgtv [n=roger@82.152.196.23] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== StK [n=StK@lie77-1-82-231-102-85.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== tcort [n=tcort@gentoo/developer/tcort] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== BuffaloSoldier [n=firdaus@218.111.66.1] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Vlada [n=stevlada@81.18.54.1] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Kopete]
=== Squido [n=Squidder@office4.tmcs.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Cheers!"]
=== abattoir [n=abattoir@cm57.omega18.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== abattoir [n=abattoir@cm57.omega18.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== graham_100 [n=chatzill@host81-129-206-109.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
graham_100!paste bin01:10
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about paste bin - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi01:10
graham_100!pastebin01:11
ubotupastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)01:11
=== Peacedog [i=chatzill@58.61.135.31] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tcort [n=tcort@gentoo/developer/tcort] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== hybrid_ [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Saelynh [n=saelynh@cha92-11-82-243-247-67.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== yuk [n=yuk@211.137.100.82] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== cafuego__ [n=cafuego@ppp66-163.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== manuleviking [n=Tux@ANice-151-1-99-114.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Konversation]
=== fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Zbyshek_ [n=neo@r11s04p08.home.nbox.cz] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== graham_100 [n=chatzill@host81-129-206-109.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== rgtv [n=roger@82.152.196.23] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== abattoir [n=abattoir@cm57.omega18.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Cas_ [n=cas@218.18.17.126] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== abattoir [n=abattoir@cm57.omega18.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== z0mbi3 [n=zombi3@c-67-184-34-229.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Arigato [n=William@S0106001731d55e7d.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== lotwook [n=marc@64.252.17.65] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== xinchuan [n=xinchuan@bb219-75-24-161.singnet.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Peacedog [i=chatzill@58.61.135.31] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== z0mbi3 [n=zombi3@c-67-184-34-229.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== Hannes__ [n=Hannes@dna252-174.satp.customers.dnainternet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== stalefries [n=stalefri@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dou213_ [n=x@e180227176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ash211 [n=andrew@user-11210ts.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== AlinuxOS [n=AlinuxOS@d81-211-217-38.cust.tele2.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== macconline [n=macconli@190.37.46.249] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== firenurse4 [n=john@cblcpe-73-106.suite224.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Riggs_ [n=Riggs@ppp-62-245-209-224.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== rrittenhouse [n=tad@cpe-76-188-35-66.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Riggs_ is now known as Riggs
=== lotwook [n=marc@64.252.17.65] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== isaywesay [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== isaywesay [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== Casanova [n=prash@unaffiliated/casanova] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== hicks [n=hekar@bas3-kitchener06-1096752407.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== H3g3m0n [n=hegemon@220-244-61-150.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Xceptiona1 [n=xception@CM-204-193-204-37.omah.tconl.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ddaemon [n=daemon@user-0cdfb1m.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Xceptiona1 [n=xception@CM-204-193-204-37.omah.tconl.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== Onofrio [n=onofrio@217-133-87-159.b2b.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jmarsden [n=jonathan@pool-71-103-215-193.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== vinnee [n=vinnee@ool-4354626d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== vinnee [n=vinnee@ool-4354626d.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== jorgp [n=jorgp@adsl-70-234-108-24.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mike___ [n=mike@c-69-245-248-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mike___ [n=mike@c-69-245-248-116.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Konversation]
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Fac51_ [n=Fac51@c-69-242-172-159.hsd1.mo.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS_ [i=usr889@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS_ [i=usr896@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS__ [i=usr901@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS_ [i=usr911@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS__ [i=usr917@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS_ [i=usr922@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== alp [n=alp@host-87-74-40-238.bulldogdsl.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["."]
=== datten_ [n=datten@xdsl-81-173-188-140.netcologne.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Terminus [n=justin@210.213.138.104] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== stalefries [n=stalefri@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== stalefries [n=stalefri@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["I've]
=== _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-048-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== EDVINAS_ [i=usr926@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== manuleviking [n=Tux@ANice-151-1-99-114.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== schiele [n=robert@p54ABD1CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Crusher [n=You@124-254-122-111-dsl.ispone.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== silwol [n=silwol@teacheradsl240.eduhi.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== eneried [n=Fairy@201.244.216.173] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
eneriedhi08:25
=== eyequeue [n=eyequeue@ubuntu/member/eyequeue] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== xinchuan [n=xinchuan@bb219-75-24-161.singnet.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== brendan__ [n=brendan@126.54.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
poningrueneried: hello09:00
eneriedhello, this is the place for Ubuntu Free Week?09:01
=== silwol [n=silwol@teacheradsl240.eduhi.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== brendan__ [n=brendan@126.54.233.220.exetel.com.au] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
eyequeueOpen Week?  yes09:02
eneriedyes yes Open Week09:02
eyequeueThe schedule is in the URL in the /topic, but it seems quiet for the next few hours09:03
eyequeueI plan on idling my client in here, and if i happen to fall asleep, i can scroll back at least :)09:03
eneriedah, but i ... couldn't calculate time09:04
eneriedhehe09:04
enerieda mistake09:04
eyequeue@NOW09:04
UbugtuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: December 02 2006, 08:04:5409:04
eyequeue@EST09:05
eyequeuetry something like  those, if they help09:05
poningrueneried: whats up?09:06
poningrudid you just wanna hang out or have any questions?09:06
poningruI can try and answer those questions09:06
poningru:)09:06
eyequeuei know in -meeting the bot is programmed to tell when the next meeting is, but i'm not sure if it knows the class schedule for -classroom09:07
eneriedi was waiting for the meeting, but i commited a mistake, when calculating time09:07
poningruah cool09:07
eneriedi  thin k the time ws now, buy is in 7 hours09:07
eneriedthen maybe is better for me to sleep09:08
eneriedhehe09:08
eyequeuegrab sleep while you can :)09:08
eneriedhehe thanks09:13
eneriedsee you later09:14
=== hybrid_ [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== sargeantd [n=chatzill@adsl-68-76-147-55.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Webspot [n=andrew@5ac5da39.bb.sky.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Webspot [n=andrew@5ac5da39.bb.sky.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== maniacmusician_ [n=maniacmu@24-151-30-234.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== bw_hb [i=root@134.76.166.207] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== sargeantd [n=chatzill@adsl-68-76-147-55.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== teprrr [i=tpr@kde/developer/rytilahti] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Skymaker [n=sky@unaffiliated/Skymaker] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Timsen [n=none@212.202.5.194] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== OgMaciel [n=omaciel@ubuntu/member/gnukemist] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ys76 [i=ys76@linoa.etherkiller.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Flannel [n=flannel@76.176.13.158] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== syntaxis [n=syntaxis@82.23.151.93] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tepsipakki [n=tjaalton@replicant.hut.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jenda [n=jenda@ubuntu/member/jenda] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Flannel [n=flannel@cpe-76-176-13-158.san.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== neversfelde [n=neversfe@p5494411C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== vicox_ [n=vicox@p549871B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== pointwood [n=pointwoo@88-212-109-189.vl20-arh.dhcp.clearwire.dk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== nick392 [n=nick69@91.64.65.193] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== bhtb [n=bhtb2@dsl-241-30-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== pradeep_ [n=pradeep@59.92.35.139] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== pradeep_ [n=pradeep@59.92.35.139] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== pradeep_ [n=pradeep@59.92.35.139] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe` [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dpreacher [n=dpreache@mail.unigoa.ac.in] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe`` [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== luke86 [n=luke86@chello212017086167.5.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== anurag_ [n=anurag@59.92.50.82] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dpreacher [n=dpreache@mail.unigoa.ac.in] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dpreacher [n=dpreache@mail.unigoa.ac.in] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe`a [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dpreacher [n=dpreache@mail.unigoa.ac.in] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Jay_Dogg [n=jukka@a88-112-87-169.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== gnomonic [n=niels@cpe.atm2-0-10282.0x50a09aee.bynxx12.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== m1sh-L [n=user@adsl-89-217-18-90.adslplus.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== appen [n=Appen@58.167.41.208] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe` [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe`` [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe`a [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== leks [n=ale@8.101.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dhaumann [n=dhaumann@c83-252-76-129.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== thebigearl [n=koptein@dslb-088-070-022-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== typecast [n=foo@p54A09AA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Schrotthaufen [n=simon@80.123.250.22] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ssb_ [n=ssb@p54B4F58D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== x-Na [i=xna@digital.celebris.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== andy [n=andy@213-156-52-97.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== maniacmusician_ [n=maniacmu@24-151-30-234.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe`a is now known as tsmithe
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== silwol [n=silwol@teacheradsl240.eduhi.at] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== silwol [n=silwol@teacheradsl240.eduhi.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== andy [n=andy@213-156-52-97.fastres.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o apokryphos] by ChanServ
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:apokryphos] : Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Next Session: LoCo Teams (1500 UTC)
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o apokryphos] by apokryphos
=== flossgeek [n=flossgee@62-30-117-58.cable.ubr03.perr.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Cieffe [n=cieffe@151.54.106.249] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== yama [n=yama@ubuntu/member/yama] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== michi [n=michi@p54B5AA7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== stanz [n=chatzill@host-77-53-220-24.midco.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
stanzahh~ finally got here...but-just in from work and hitting the sack! :)  will check this out later. Thanks all!!12:57
=== anurag_ [n=anurag@59.92.50.82] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== Casanova [n=prash@unaffiliated/casanova] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== leks [n=ale@80-218-96-27.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== cs_studen1 [n=vicox@p549871B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dand [n=dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== H3g3m0n [n=hegemon@220-244-61-150.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== sidhi [n=sidhi@ARennes-352-1-100-56.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== gsuveg [n=me@248-244.dyn-fa.pool.ew.hu] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== vicox [n=vicox@p549871B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== KPOWER [n=chatzill@cpc2-seve11-0-0-cust100.popl.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== nbjayme [n=chatzill@125.60.240.202] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== zilo [n=zilo@lbrat1-14-20.wmx.sk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== bricchetto [n=bricchet@82.84.5.177] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== cstudent [n=cstudent@67.129.197.198] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== MartinY [n=MartinY@81-178-91-3.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== phips [n=phips@mail.360is.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jos [n=jos@muffin.jeriko.se] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dand_ [n=dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== frafu [n=frafu@vodsl-9985.vo.lu] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== danbuch929 [n=emelia@70-39-156-18.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== rubia [n=rubia@lns-bzn-36-82-251-53-7.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== fraiddo [n=fred@AAmiens-151-1-54-201.w83-192.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== cmn [n=carlos@200.red-82-159-198.user.auna.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== bhtb [n=bhtb2@dsl-241-76-46.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
bhtbhi!02:53
=== Schnorgi [n=peter@dslb-084-056-053-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
rubiahi!02:54
Schnorgihi02:54
nixternallow02:55
=== jjtec1 [n=jjtech@c-68-53-206-214.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Schnorgi [n=peter@dslb-084-056-053-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Kopete]
=== madmetal [n=mad@ppp159-152.dsl.hol.gr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== madmetal [n=mad@ppp159-152.dsl.hol.gr] has left #ubuntu-classroom [""]
zilohello03:04
=== claydoh [n=claydoh@66.252.48.160] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Alex_ian [n=alexys@host-84-220-181-231.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dhaumann [n=dhaumann@c83-252-76-129.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== xinchuan [n=xinchuan@bb219-75-24-161.singnet.com.sg] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== engla [n=ulrik@kr-lun-116-144-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== kalon34 [n=kalon33@i02v-62-34-145-118.d4.club-internet.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== g3o [n=g3o@unaffiliated/g3o] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== palski [n=palski@raastinrauta.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== melter [n=dmorlock@ideaone-243-13.ideaone.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Yawner [n=alex@82-44-194-226.cable.ubr07.haye.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== rmjb [n=richard@cuscon4790.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mariano [n=mariano@host238.190-30-114.telecom.net.ar] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== g3o [n=g3o@unaffiliated/g3o] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Ubuntu]
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== thiebaude [n=thiebaud@68-119-176-236.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Blue-Omega [n=Blue@about/cooking/nakedchef/omelette/Blue-Omega] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== pradeep [n=pradeep@59.92.86.160] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== effie_jayx [n=valles@190.37.159.143] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== rmjb_ [n=richard@cuscon19732.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== eneried [n=Fairy@201.244.212.60] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Poddubny [n=nop@ppp-vpdn-85.158.51.240.yarnet.ru] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Sikavica [n=andon_si@82.114.78.10] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== effraie [n=effraie@jem75-1-82-228-146-152.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Je]
=== Alex_ian [n=alexys@host-84-220-181-231.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== rhkfin [n=rhk@a88-114-123-46.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jonoyo03:52
rmjb_'sup03:52
bhtbhey03:52
elkbuntuhowdy jono :)03:52
=== proppy [n=proppy@82.66.68.232] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jonohey elkbuntu :)03:52
=== hastesaver [n=username@unaffiliated/hastesaver] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== thane [n=guido@host13-73-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
thiebaudehi jono03:54
jonohi thane03:54
jonooops03:54
jonohi thiebaude03:54
thane:)03:54
=== rmjb_ is now known as rmjb
=== tsmithe [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Help]
=== ash211 [n=andrew@adsl-152-169-197.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Bourlotieris [n=bourloti@athedsl-140082.otenet.gr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Bourlotierisjoin #ubuntu-classroom-chat03:58
=== elkbuntu hands Bourlotieris a spare /
Bourlotieris* :)03:59
=== p|erce [n=user@202.128.47.9] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuHello everyone! Welcome to the second LoCo Teams introduction session.04:02
elkbuntuAs always, questions to be prefixed with QUESTION: in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and i'll fetch them as they're relevant :)04:02
elkbuntuToday will be pretty much identical to Thursday's session, but of course, with different people we get a whole new bunch of cool questions. So, lets get on with things :)04:03
elkbuntuMy name is Melissa Draper, and I am the LoCo Team Contact for the Ubuntu Australian LoCo Team. If you are wondering what that title involves, fear not, for we will be discussing it over the course of this session. I have a wiki page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MelissaDraper that introduces me in more detail.04:03
elkbuntuOver the course of this session, we will be discussing a number of aspects of LoCo Teams. This includes, but is not limited to:04:03
elkbuntu* What are LoCo Teams?04:03
elkbuntu* Who leads the LoCo?04:03
elkbuntu* How I can find my LoCo Team?04:03
elkbuntu* But, I can't see a LoCo Team for me!04:03
elkbuntu* How do I start a LoCo?04:03
elkbuntu* Approved vs New04:03
elkbuntu* How can I get involved?04:03
elkbuntuNow, lets start at the beginning. What are LoCo Teams?04:04
elkbuntuA LoCo (short for Local Community) Team is a group of (in our case) Ubuntu users within a Localised Community.04:04
elkbuntuThe teams are run by the people, for the people. They are *not* run by Canonical, however Canonical is highly supportive of them and will provide assistance. We will cover the assistance offered later.04:04
elkbuntuA LoCo can involve a lot of things such as local promotion, support in the local language, general support to local users and much more.04:05
=== techno_freak [n=techno_f@59.92.62.16] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Crusher [n=You@124-254-122-111-dsl.ispone.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuLoCo Teams can be based around location, such as in my case, Australia.04:05
=== anschel [n=anschel@h-67-101-192-95.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuBecause people in Australia speak English, there is not a strong need for language-based activities. Our primary focus is advocacy within Australia, but we do a small amount of support.04:05
elkbuntuLanguage based teams include for instance, the Spanish Team, which is based primarily around the Spanish language and hence includes most, if not all, the Spanish-speaking countries.04:06
=== samgee [n=samgee@187.82-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== quimby [n=quimby@p57A9173B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ubunturos_ [n=ubunturo@59.184.56.198] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuBecause Spanish is a very widely spoken language, the team's efforts would have a greater focus on providing support in Spanish and translating Ubuntu. There are still, of course, advocacy efforts within the team.04:06
=== KillGore [n=sven@e179133134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuOne aspect of LoCo Teams that we find is also important, is that they enable and encourage people to interact with other Ubuntu users that are actually near them, as opposed to the other side of the world.04:06
ubunturos_someone use my computer run firefox 2.0 running :(04:06
ubunturos_computer to start / run04:07
elkbuntuA single person with ideas is nothing compared to a dozen equally imaginative people :)04:07
=== proppy [n=proppy@82.66.68.232] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Killed]
=== anschel [n=anschel@h-67-101-192-95.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuDoes anyone have questions about what I've covered so far?04:07
=== Sup3rkiddo [n=sudharsh@59.92.60.166] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== anurag [n=anurag@59.92.67.35] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuOne question we get asked a lot by new teams is "Who leads the LoCo?".04:08
elkbuntuGenerally, this is done by the LoCo Team Contact.04:08
=== ubunturos_ [n=ubunturo@59.184.56.198] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Konversation]
elkbuntuThe contact may be the founder, who has self-appointed his or herself, or, he or she may have been democratically elected.04:09
=== baks17 [n=barkha@gnu-india/supporter/barkha] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuThere's no 'right' way to do it, and some teams even have multiple contacts.04:09
=== ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-168-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuWhat works for *your team* is best, and it may take a few tries to figure out what this is.04:09
elkbuntuThe responsibilities of the Team Contact vary with the focus of the team, but a general guideline is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact04:10
=== anurag [n=anurag@59.92.67.35] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== baks17 [n=barkha@gnu-india/supporter/barkha] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== twerner [n=twerner@i59F750F0.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuIn my role as the LoCo Team Contact for Ubuntu-Au, my responsibilities generally include maintaining regular meetings, delegating tasks, channel upkeep and moderation and so forth.04:10
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuLoCo Contacts should be subscribed to the loco-contacts mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts) and hang out in #ubuntu-locoteams.04:11
elkbuntuThe team contact is also the public face of the LoCo. He/She acts as the main communication bridge between the team and the community at large. Given this, a grasp on the English language is almost necessary.04:11
=== Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuIt is possible that the contact may be approached by media, or get direct support requests, as their contact details are, or at least should be, easily obtainable.04:11
elkbuntuOk, some questions :)04:12
elkbuntu<yama> QUESTION/COMMENT: while language activities are not seen as important in English-speaking countries, note that there are many variants of English. The English Translation team, for example, tries to cater for en_GB and its dialects04:12
elkbuntuThis is a good point, thanks yama :)04:13
elkbuntu<rmjb> QUESTION: what's the smallest LoCo team now? My country is already small and probably has only a handful of Ubuntu users04:13
elkbuntuI have no idea. there's probably locos with just 1 or 2 people in them that are still trying to get off the ground.04:13
elkbuntu<techno_freak> Question: when there is a conflict or difference of opinion on who leads a loco team, where do we go or who solves the issue ?04:14
elkbuntuI believe we have a wiki page about this, im just quickly tyring to find it for you :)04:14
elkbuntuI was right, yay! take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoResolvingProblems04:15
techno_freakelkbuntu: sure :)04:15
elkbuntu<SimonAnibal> CONTACT: Is the "leader" LoCo Team Contact by default, and should LoCo Team Contact be a fluent English speaker?04:15
elkbuntuAs I said before, it varies between teams. It is advisable that there's at least someone nominated to translate for the team and for the people outside the team. it makes working things out much easier04:16
=== mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu<effie_jayx> QUESTION: are the university based loCo's,if so can you mention one so we can follow footsteps04:17
elkbuntuI dont know of any specific university based teams, but the Chicago team is based around one city, so it's probably worth contacting them :)04:17
effie_jayxthnx04:17
elkbuntuI'll continue with the class script a bit now04:17
elkbuntuSome people in here have probably already located their LoCo Team. Some others may want to know "How I can find my LoCo Team?"04:17
elkbuntuA good way to find your LoCo Team, is to visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList and see if there is a team in your area.04:18
elkbuntuIf there are several teams that apply to you, the team at country or state level is probably the team you should join first, although there's nothing stopping you being in multiple LoCos.04:18
elkbuntuNow, if any of you are in the situation where you are looking at the teams list and thinking "But, I can't see a LoCo team for me!", then there's a good chance one may not exist.04:18
elkbuntuThere is a possibility that your team just has not added themselves to the list, so check the channels list here on freenode, and/or do a google for the team name.04:18
elkbuntuFor example, the Australian team is "Ubuntu-au". "au" is the ISO code for Australia.04:19
elkbuntuIf after searching, you cannot see a team then there probably is not one.04:19
=== gabone [n=gabone@84.232.197.188] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuIf you are really interested in LoCo work, then it is time to find some other people and start one.04:19
elkbuntuI know a few people are here wanting to know "How do I start a LoCo?". Well luckily, it's not rocket science.04:20
elkbuntuThe main things you need are people and communication. It is recommended that you start by setting up a mailing list and an IRC channel.04:20
elkbuntuWe can help with this in various ways. Well, we cannot help you gather the people, but the other things we can help with.04:20
=== ulinskie [n=ping@203.131.132.66] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuFor a mailing list, we prefer if the list is created through Ubuntu's mailman system. For this, email mailman@lists.ubuntu.com04:20
elkbuntuTo register your LoCo Channel, see '/msg chanserv help register' for instructions. The channel should be #ubuntu-cc where 'cc' is your country ISO code.04:20
effie_jayxelkbuntu, ;)04:21
elkbuntuIRC channels are best done here on Freenode. Almost all Ubuntu channels are here, and it's useful to have all the channels together.04:21
elkbuntuNot only that, Ubuntu has built up a very good relationship with the Freenode staff, so we're able to pull strings. It's quite convenient.04:21
elkbuntuAnother important point about using the Ubuntu mailman and Freenode, is that if for some unfortunate reason, the team leader was to disappear into thin air (and yes, this happens), it is much easier to negotiate the reassigning of privileges.04:22
elkbuntuWe've had proof of this concept in the past 48 hours. The venezuelan LoCo has been able to reclaim use of their channel :)04:22
elkbuntuAnyway, Once you have the basic structure set up, you're a LoCo team.04:22
SimonAnibalelkbuntu: WooHoo! Thanks!04:22
effie_jayxD04:23
effie_jayx:D04:23
elkbuntuWhilst it is not entirely mandatory, it's strongly suggested you sign the team up at Launchpad.net. This lets us know the team exists, for a start, but it also makes it easy to see who is in the team for purposes of verifing things if something goes wrong.04:23
elkbuntuLaunchpad also incorporates the Rosetta translation tools, which is what Ubuntu uses for translations.04:23
elkbuntuWith Launchpad, there are also other ways to contribute to Ubuntu as a whole (outside the realm of LoCo Teams), as has been pointed out over the past few days. Communication and contribution with the rest of the Ubuntu community is essential for a team's success.04:23
elkbuntu<techno_freak> Question: what support do loco team gets for taking up localization and internationalization efforts within its zone ?04:23
=== dzzsky [n=sky@82-41-45-254.cable.ubr06.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuIm not entirely sure what you mean by this. The Rosetta system within launchpad is quite well supported by Canonical.04:24
elkbuntu<yama> QUESTION: in a similar vein to my previous comment, is there a recommended way and/or infrastructure for speakers of dialects of the same language (e.g. Spanish, French, Portuguese) to collaborate on translations? At present, there is a lot of duplication of effort.04:25
elkbuntuI would think that there would be things for this within rosetta. I'm not at all familiar with the system so i cannot comfortably comment here.04:25
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu<yama> QUESTION: Is there a recommended minimum area for a LoCo team? For instance, would three teams in the same city be seen as splintering the community or catering to specific needs?04:26
elkbuntuI would say that situation would be a bit ridiculous. However, if the city has several million people, it could well be feasible04:26
elkbuntu<eneried> QUESTION: Could our Team will be based not in a place but a need?04:27
elkbuntuDo you mean such as language?04:27
elkbuntu<yama> COMMENT: Gmane can be used for those who would prefer a web-based interface to the mailing lists. <yama> that way, you can avoid the community being split between a mailing list and a Web forum04:28
elkbuntuthanks for that, yama :)04:28
elkbuntuYou may or may not have heard reference to 'approved' and 'new' LoCo Teams. This has caused confusion in the past, so I'll cover it now.04:28
eneriedmeybe a language, maybe a culture based task, an investigation work, an internet thing not suitable for localization. music for example04:28
elkbuntueneried, yes. very much so. im pretty certain that the spanish team goes beyond the boundries of spain, for instance04:29
elkbuntuAn approved team is a team that is up and running, has each of the required resources in operation and the team is working well.04:30
elkbuntuWhen you become an approved team, it will make you eligible for certain benefits such as marketing materials, etc04:30
elkbuntuAn approved team is also considered officially by the Ubuntu project, and the process involves going before the Community Council.04:30
elkbuntuNew teams are equally important to us, and we do support them by providing services such as hosting, a domain, mailing lists etc to help them become established.04:30
elkbuntuOnce a new team has been set up with the basic mail/irc/launchpad structure, and have been around for a while, there should be no problem getting approved.04:30
elkbuntuIf the team chooses to remain unapproved, we're ok with that too, but there are benefits, as mentioned above, for being approved.04:31
elkbuntuIf you have questions about, or your team requires any of the LoCo services mentioned today, please join #ubuntu-locoteams and ask away, or sign up to the mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/loco-contacts) if you prefer that way of asking.04:31
=== lumpki [n=lumpki@ACA35F96.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntueneried asked: QUESTION: our Team has the new status, how we can claim for the benefits related? i mean hosting, for example. Does this answer your question, eneried?04:31
enerieda little04:32
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: Hello elkbuntu, how non-english LoCo Teams can coordinate?04:33
elkbuntumruiz, clarification please? Do you mean between each other, or within themselves?04:33
mruizelkbuntu, between different Teams04:34
=== dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuthat's the point behind having an english-speaking contact. English is like the official language, if you want to look at it like that04:35
elkbuntu<eneried> QUESTION: asking about a host and domain... with who we must contact to get both things?04:35
elkbuntuPlease join the channel I mentioned before (#ubuntu-locoteams) and we can discuss it later04:35
elkbuntu<effie_jayx> QUESTION: does the mailing list have to be registerd in the ubuntu server to count as a mailinglist to enable eligibility for aproval?04:35
elkbuntueffie_jayx, I'm not 100% sure, but it's preferred at least.04:36
effie_jayxok04:36
eneriedelkubuntu, thanks, question asnwered04:36
elkbuntu<samgee> QUESTION: Do teams for multilingual countries like Switzerland have their own language teams (swiss = swiss-fr + swiss-de + swiss-it) or do they just overlap with/act separately from the main language teams?04:36
elkbuntuI'm going to point you towards a fellow who goes by the nick 'looksaus' for this one. he is the belgian loco contact. if he's not on now, keep an eye out for him, he hangs out in the locoteams channel04:37
elkbuntuIf you were not before, you may now (hopefully) be wondering "How can I get involved?".04:37
elkbuntuFor most teams, just being on the mailing list, in the IRC channel or on the launchpad.net team is sufficient to join the team, and once you have done this, you can contribute in a variety of ways.04:37
elkbuntuAs mentioned above, LoCo Teams involve a variety of project areas. These can include local support, translation, and local promotion, or even simply documenting the team and it's activites.04:38
elkbuntuIf you unsure of how best to get involved with your LoCo, a good idea is to ask a prominent member within the team. They often know what areas need more man (or woman) power.04:38
elkbuntuAlternatively, if you are for instance, interested in seeing more promotional material that is relevant to your country, then you could simply create the material you feel is missing.04:39
elkbuntuWhen you've done whatever you felt necessary, tell people in the LoCo about it. Showing initiative is also a good way to get respect :)04:39
elkbuntuOn a larger level, groups of LoCo members can get together to stage install-fests, or run booths at computer fairs.04:39
elkbuntuThere are alot of great LoCos around, and we're fortunate to have had some of them collaborate to provide us with our (still fledgling) knowledgebase.04:39
elkbuntuIf you want to find out more about joining, establishing or running LoCos, you can see the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamKnowledgeBase wiki page.04:40
elkbuntu<rmjb> QUESTION: Can you give a couple examples of the AU LoCo team's activities since it's already english?04:40
elkbuntuWe had a pretty good turn-out at Software Freedom Day this year :)04:40
=== mruiz [n=mruiz@pc-134-66-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: About LoCo Team logo, how create a logo and respect the Ubuntu Logo trademark (for example no modify it)?04:41
elkbuntuWork within your team and come up with a design everyone is happy with. once you've done that, there is a process... let me find the wiki page04:42
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu... and it seems it is taking a while04:44
mruiz:)04:44
elkbuntu<techno_freak> Question: For making use of the support for promotional activities, is it necessary that a loco team member should approach only through the Loco team contact/head ?04:44
elkbuntuYes, it is the preferred way.04:44
elkbuntumruiz, google to the rescue! http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy/04:45
mruizthanks04:45
elkbuntu<eneried> QUESTION:going back to question about a need, for example, we could have a Team for bioiformatics, astonomy or medicine needs, but bioinformatics researchers, astronomers and doctors are not in same place (ans come could not, who are in observatories for example), could that communities work like a LoCo Team?04:46
elkbuntueneried, anything is possible. I've not really seen such subteams within a loco before, but if there are distinct groups then I see no reason why it would not work04:46
elkbuntuAny more questions?04:47
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: For example, some guys from Dominican Republic contact me because they need some help to create their LoCo. Can mentoring program include non-english speakers LoCo Teams?04:49
=== guglielf [n=guglielf@unaffiliated/guglielf] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuMost certainly! If your team is able to help out, then go for it :)04:49
elkbuntuWe'd appreciate if you could document the process. we're always looking for new case studies to help us define some best practices for mentoring04:50
mruizcool04:50
elkbuntuAnyone else? the only stupid question is the one not asked :)04:51
=== techno_freak [n=techno_f@59.92.62.16] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Catch]
elkbuntu<eneried> QUESTION: What kind of relationship must be between a LoCo Team an the OpenSource movenment? Could the LoCo Team work in closed source apps or solutions (off course never closing ubuntu itself), or mixed solutions (computers with mac and ubuntu in same local network)?04:53
elkbuntuHmm.. im starting to think your focus is less about LoCo and more about target areas. There's nothing stopping you creating teams such as 'Science team'04:55
=== Essk [i=essk@goatse.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntusorry for the delay in answer, i had to think there :)04:55
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: Is possible than a LoCo Team have 2 o more LoCo contacts?04:56
elkbuntuYes, I believe the french team have 3. (i may be mistaken on who and how many)04:56
=== defaultuser [n=defaultu@66.239.82.119] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== zilo_ [n=zilo@lbrat1-13-112.wmx.sk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu<eneried> QUESTION: I said Open Source, but ubuntu is not only source code. Here in colombia we have a great ned, a lot of people does not know what Open Source or even linux is!! And i talk about classroom teacher, about politicians, about journalist... any effective idea or experience to tell us how to make them know about ubuntu, and what not to do in the LoCo to reach that goal?04:57
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu... im really not sure what you're trying to ask. Within a LoCo, people often have a role. Nothing is stopping people having consultative roles04:58
=== defaultuser is now known as linuxuser1202
elkbuntu<anschel> QUESTION: Do LoCo's normally meet? I'm interested in installfests and meetings and I was wondering if a loco would be the place for that04:59
=== luisbg_ [n=LuisB_G@87.217.147.189] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuA loCo is an ideal group to hold install fests and so forth04:59
=== LKRaider [n=LKRaider@200.247.157.198] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuI think that's enough. We're going to run over time if i do any more questions04:59
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o dholbach] by ChanServ
elkbuntuAnd saying that...05:00
elkbuntuHere is the ever delightful Daniel Holbach to tell you all about MOTU :)05:00
dholbachEverybody give a big hand for the magnificent elkbuntu.05:00
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:dholbach] : Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Next Session: MOTU
=== effie_jayx claps frntically
dholbachthank you elkbuntu :)05:01
=== dholbach hugs elkbuntu
thiebaudethanks and good day, elkbuntu05:01
samgeethx05:01
KillGorebye05:01
elkbuntudholbach, for you my dear, any time :)05:01
=== elkbuntu hugs dholbach
dholbach .-)05:01
=== anschel [n=anschel@h-67-101-192-95.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
dholbachHELLO EVERYBODY05:01
=== Dinxter [n=niall@82-41-236-160.cable.ubr12.edin.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachthis session is going to be about MOTU, the Master of the Universe!05:01
rmjbHELLO dholbach05:01
=== KillGore [n=sven@e179133134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Konversation]
thiebaudehello dholbach05:01
=== nixternal hugs dholbach
dholbachI'm Daniel Holbach, work for Canonical and my main objectives are Ubuntu's Desktop and working with teams like MOTU, Telepathy, Accessibility, the Art team and others. I joined the MOTUs nearly two years ago and we were around 5 of them at that time.05:02
=== LKRaider [n=LKRaider@200.247.157.198] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Arakiri]
dholbachI should probably say, that I'm happy to take questions in between, so don't be shy.05:02
=== LKRaider [n=LKRaider@200.247.157.198] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachThe name originates from the Universe component, which holds the biggest amount of our packages. 'main' and 'restricted' are supported by Canonical, 'universe' and 'multiverse' by the community. 'main' and 'restricted' hold 4829 packages today and 'universe' plus 'multiverse' 15855. So as the name suggests, the MOTU team takes care of 'universe' (and 'multiverse' also). We currently have 57 members. And we hang out in #ubuntu-motu - so05:03
dholbach if you're interested in helping out and get to know the people and packaging, join us and have fun05:03
dholbachSo what do MOTUs generally do?05:04
kalon34thanks elkbuntu05:04
dholbachAs a MOTU you're maintaining packages. The good thing about Ubuntu is that we don't follow the concept of applying the rigorous big maintainer lock, it's your choice which package you take care of.05:04
eneriedthanks elkubuntu05:05
dholbachWe have people05:05
dholbach * taking care only of their own packages05:05
dholbach * working together with others on a set of packages in a team05:05
dholbach * fixing lots of different packages05:05
dholbach(* working on no packages at all)05:05
dholbachSo if you belong to the last category, listen up! This is your first step in the Ubuntu Development Community. :-D05:06
dholbachAny questions up until now?05:06
=== easytiger [n=gerry@cpc1-blfs7-0-0-cust40.belf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachSo who of you is already part of the MOTU process?05:07
=== rmjb raises hand
dholbachrmjb: Excellent#05:07
dholbachAnybody in here considering joining the team?05:07
=== hybrid [n=x@easyubuntu/supporter/hybrid] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachI'll just go on and if you have questions or ideas what you'd like to do we can try to get into more detail there05:08
elkbuntu<kalon34> QUESTION: dholbach, Which knowledges are needed to join MOTU team ?05:08
dholbachgracias elkbuntu05:08
kalon34maybe me, depends on competences needed.05:08
dholbachkalon34: we had people joining the team, who were just curious and had basic linux skills.05:09
dholbachkalon34: and they did a good job.05:09
=== malvin [n=t1409f0@195.145.172.242] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== soulrider [n=mauro@r190-0-135-54.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachKey to having fun and profiting of the MOTU world is to be interested and motivated, talk to people and learn a lot05:09
dholbachif you already built  source from scratch, wrote small programs, know how to use shell scripts, even better05:10
=== eneried [n=Fairy@201.244.212.60] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Abandonando"]
=== noelvis [n=noelvis@dsl-240-76-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachbut we have people at any skill level in the MOTU team, so you'll always find somebody you can learn something from05:10
dholbachI'll go on now with what I've prepared - feel free to ask more questions in -chat05:11
dholbachSo how do I become a MOTU?05:11
soulridererr, whats a MOTU? =/05:11
dholbachThat's very easy. You basically contribute to the team's efforts, either by packaging a new piece of software or by helping with fixing / updating / merging existing packages.05:11
dholbachsoulrider: I think I answered that before but maybe wasn't clear enough05:11
soulrideror amybe i wasnt here? :P05:11
dholbachhttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU might explain some bits, but here's the short story again:05:11
dholbachno you weren't05:12
soulriderok, thanks05:12
elkbuntusoulrider, please ask future questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat :)05:12
dholbachMOTUs are the Masters of the Universe, the community package maintainers, the people taking care of the Universe and Multiverse sections of Ubuntu's packages05:12
soulriderk05:12
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachMOTUs are the community package maintainers05:12
elkbuntuthere's a question, is it ok for now?05:12
dholbachsure05:13
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: dholbach, do you consider a MOTU mentoring plan?05:13
=== Neonightmare [n=chatzill@67-214.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachand apart from that a group of people having a lot of fun and hanging out in #ubuntu-motu :)05:13
kalon34QUESTION: Is there somewhere with the process to follow or can you describe it please ?05:13
dholbachmruiz: I'm not quite sure I understand the question. We do have people mentoring MOTU hopefuls. What is your exact question? If we have a strict plan to do the mentoring?05:13
elkbuntukalon34, please ask future questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat :)05:14
dholbachkalon34: i'll answer this question and then go on to explain how to get there.05:14
dholbachmruiz: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors might answer your question, if not, please ask again05:14
=== dholbach goes on
kalon34sorry, elkbuntu, I'm losed with all my windows ^^05:14
=== Chastell [n=shot@dsm6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
kalon34thanks dholbach :)05:15
dholbachI personally always found the second way (to work on existing packages) to be much easier and you learn a lot along the way. As a MOTU hopeful you're not allowed yet to upload to the archive yourself, but you can ask other team members to sponsor the upload for you. We have a lightweight process for that in place.05:15
elkbuntu<rmjb> QUESTION: How can someone who is not yet an MOTU help with the merging / syncing process? Isn't a MOTU always needed for this?05:15
dholbachrmjb: that might also answer your question: we do sponsoring, which means that somebody who has upload rights already reviews your patch or package and then does the upload for you05:16
rmjbcool05:16
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: dholbach, I don't know that you have people mentoring MOTU. Can you explain it?05:16
dholbachmruiz: if you look at the page I mentioned to you, you will find a list of people and mail adresses there05:16
=== Zerlinna [n=Zerlinna@C2b78.c.strato-dslnet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachmruiz: just mail anybody of them - all of them are happy to take on MOTU hopefuls to walk them through the basic first steps in the MOTU world05:17
mruizthanks, dholbach05:17
dholbachok cool05:17
dholbachIt's easy to see that it's not just a matter of technically abilty, but also a matter of teamwork and trust. The current process asks you to become an Ubuntu member in the Community Council meeting (where you are recognized for your efforts) and become a member of 'ubuntu-dev' after the Technical Board was happy with you on a technical basis. That process will change in the near future and a MOTU council (let's see if it will be called05:17
dholbach 'Council Grayskull' in the end...), which will do the approval.05:17
mruizdholbach, I will check it05:18
dholbachmruiz: Anything you're intersted in particularly?05:18
dholbachsome kind of package (or group of packages) or something you'd like to look after?05:18
=== faramir [n=faramir@dD5761179.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
mruizdholbach, desktop packages are so interesting05:19
dholbachexcellent05:19
=== TheGateKeeper [n=m@82-36-112-224.cable.ubr03.king.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachbe sure to tell me what your plans are and we'll figure something out05:19
dholbachmaybe in a mail05:19
dholbach(Keep the questions coming...)05:19
dholbachHere some things the MOTUs do:05:19
dholbachWe work on Bugs, so just to put some numbers into the discussion05:20
dholbach * 10563 bugs in Universe/Multiverse    (66274 in Ubuntu total)05:20
dholbach * 6739 closed bugs Universe/Multiverse (46063 closed in Ubuntu total)05:20
dholbachWhile the numbers look scary, here's a very good thing about working with the MOTUs: you're not alone. If you try to fix a bug in a package you have:05:20
dholbach 1) team members,05:20
dholbach 2) the Debian maintainer and05:20
dholbach 3) the upstream author05:20
dholbachyou can ask and work with. Working on bugs is highly rewarding: sometimes it's a one line fix, you find in the upstream CVS already and you make a lot of users happy.05:20
dholbach<LKRaider> QUESTION: Do all upstream packages go through MOTU before entering the repos?05:21
dholbachLKRaider: No, we inherit an awful lot of packages from Debian automatically.05:21
LKRaiderok05:22
=== Arby [n=richard@82.153.99.198] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachLKRaider: in the times where we're not in Freeze times (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule will show), we automatically sync the source from Debian packages (if we don't have changes that might get overwritten)05:22
elkbuntu<rmjb> QUESTION: what ubuntu mailing lists should a MOTU Hopeful subscribe to other than ubuntu-motu?05:22
dholbachso sometimes you upload a new package to ubuntu and in the next cycle there's a debian maintainer you can merge your efforts with05:23
dholbachit's really to cool to have another somebody to work with on the package, so that's great05:23
dholbachrmjb: good question, ubuntu-devel-announce@ and ubuntu-devel@ are good fits also, because it's good to know what's planned, which big changes are going to be introduced, etc05:23
=== luisbg_ is now known as luisbg
dholbachI'd also recommend to read  feisty-changes@  which send you a mail for every package change that is uploaded05:24
=== cstrauss [n=cstrauss@c9344c0b.virtua.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachthese are only changelogs, but still you get a general gist of what's going on - so if you have packages that you need to integrate yours with, you can easily find out what happened there05:24
dholbachapart from that it brings a certain learning experience to see what other package maintainers do05:25
dholbachand then of course upstream mailing lists, so if you're package maintainer for say abiword, you might want to sign up for their lists too05:25
dholbachI'm subscribed to loads of other mailing lists too, but that should be a good start and not be too scary :-)05:26
=== dholbach goes on
dholbachTEAMS05:26
dholbachMOTU has formed a huge bunch of subteams already:05:26
dholbach * Games team05:26
dholbach * Media team05:26
dholbach * Science team05:26
dholbach * Photo team05:26
dholbach * UncommonProgrammingLanguages team05:26
=== adomanski [n=adomansk@p54AFC1F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachand a lot of other teams, which started in Universe, but now are working across the whole distro, the Mono team is a good example for that. If you have good ideas for a team and want to kickstart it, let me know: dholbach@ubuntu.com05:27
=== PriceChild [n=pricechi@unix0.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntu<jorgp> QUESTION:does Edgy MOTU get version bumps and updates or are the versions locked in the same way main is?05:27
dholbachjorgp: Edgy is released, which means it is LOCKED.05:27
dholbachWe currently work on Feisty.05:27
dholbachof course you get security fixes in   edgy-security05:27
dholbachand high-profile bug fixes in   edgy-updates05:27
dholbach(http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates has more info about that one)05:28
dholbachand specific backports in   edgy-backports05:28
dholbach<pradeep> QUESTION: Is uploading packages a one time activity for a release? I mean can I build a new package or a new version for an existing package for edgy/dapper now?05:28
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachpradeep: I'm not quite sure I understand. You can't upload to Edgy or Dapper now. They're both released.05:29
dholbachWhich means they're locked. Frozen.05:29
dholbachpradeep: Can you elaborate or does that answer your question?05:29
elkbuntu<pradeep> oops i think the question is repeated ... :/05:29
pradeepdholbach, yes that answers my question.05:29
dholbachpradeep: Alrighty05:30
dholbachMentoring05:30
dholbachWe're doing huge efforts at helping people get up to scratch on packaging, especially #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net is always buzzing and somebody is always awake to answer *your* packaging question.05:30
dholbachBut mentoring also happens on our ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list, in private chats, by doing reviews of packages and patches or via mail. Don't hesitate to approach us, join the Master of the Universe today! :-)05:30
=== _MMA_ [n=mma@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbach( https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu )05:31
dholbachSomething we do at the moment: Merges05:31
dholbachIn the beginning of each release cycle we merge our efforts with those of the Debian maintainers. So this is what we currently do for Feisty. If you want to help out, just grab a merge from http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html or http://merges.ubuntu.com/multiverse.html and go ahead.05:31
dholbachAny more questions?05:32
elkbuntunot currently05:32
dholbachthere's the MOTU School05:32
dholbachIn the spirit of the Ubuntu's Open Week we already had some interesting MOTU School sessions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School - if you want to hold a session or request a session, let us know on the mailing list and on the wiki pages.05:32
elkbuntujorgp> QUESTION: you said security updates make it into edgy release, what about bug fixes?05:33
=== faramir [n=faramir@dD5761179.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== anurga [n=anurga@59.92.44.23] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachso if you look at named page, you'll find that we did some sessions already and there are really good logs you can just dive into05:33
dholbachjorgp: I said that high-profile bugs go into edgy-updates05:33
dholbachif we look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates the requirements are:05:34
dholbachStable release updates will, in general, only be issued in order to fix high-impact bugs. Examples of such bugs include:05:34
dholbach    *05:34
dholbach      Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a security vulnerability05:34
dholbach    *05:34
dholbach      Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu05:34
dholbach    *05:34
dholbach      Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a loss of user data05:34
dholbachif you look at the page some more, that our policy is very strict05:34
dholbachthat's for a reason - some of you might remember the problems with the X server updates that left people without X and just a black screen and wonky messages05:35
=== manuleviking_ [n=Tux@ANice-151-1-48-230.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
elkbuntuhow could i forget05:35
=== lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #uBUNtu-classROOM
dholbachbut as I said, we 1) don't rule out such updates and 2) have backports which are less conservative but of course we can't packages that require too intrusive changes05:36
dholbachjorgp: does that answer your question?05:36
elkbuntu<mruiz> QUESTION: dholbach, you told us that MOTU also works in bugs... what is the difference between MOTU and Bug Squad team?05:36
kalon34how to forget it, anxious behind our pc ^^05:36
dholbachmruiz: the BugSquad helps out to triage bugs, which means: 1) get more information from the reporter, 2) get the right people involved with the bug and so on05:37
dholbachof course MOTUs do that too and we have people who are active on both fronts05:37
dholbachbut MOTUs actively work on packages and fix them themselves05:37
jorgpdholbach, yes05:37
dholbachMOTUs also introduce bugs05:37
dholbachno, I was kidding about the last point ;-)05:37
dholbachof course they don't05:38
=== dholbach hugs all the MOTUs in the room
dholbachMOTUs: please speak up if you're here and tell us something about you05:38
dholbachMore questions?05:38
elkbuntui'll copy them over if they come up05:38
dholbachOk, let's move on: Documentation!05:39
dholbachJordan Mantha (Laserjock) and others have worked hard on the Packaging Guide, but he'd always be glad to have people who are interested in explaining and helping new MOTU hopefuls to find their way into the community. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation lists a few pages of interest.05:39
elkbuntu<LKRaider> QUESTION: what about introducing packges that are not on Debian, for example?05:39
dholbachhttps://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html is the link to the packaging guide05:39
=== Poddubny [n=nop@ppp-vpdn-85.158.51.240.yarnet.ru] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
dholbachso if you want to help out with that, especially if you don't understand certain sections or would like explain some bits some more, let us know05:40
dholbachI'll finish the documentation point, then get back to you LKRaider05:40
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU and its subpages could also do with some helping hands. MOTU is a community effort and has grown into all sorts of directions over time, the wiki pages bear witness of that, so it'd be great if you'd fix whatever documentation you found inaccurate.05:40
dholbachI know that's probably not a task for newcomers, but the same thing applies here: if you don't understand documentation or it seems broken to you: let us know - just drop a mail on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com and we'll fix it05:41
dholbachLKRaider: we add new packages that are not in Debian all the time05:42
=== stryderjzw [n=stryderj@CPE000d88875ef6-CM00e06f16a5cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachthere's no problem with that, it's just nice if you find a RFP (request for package) or ITP (intent to package) in Debian's bug database, that you follow up on the bug and say something along the lines of:05:42
dholbach"hey guys, I have the package ready, please comment on it and try to get it into debian if you like"05:43
dholbachbecause you then have additional people to talk to and work with05:43
dholbachand that's what we all rely on05:43
dholbachLKRaider: does that answer your question or do you want to know some more?05:43
LKRaiderso the work is always synched back to Debian?05:44
dholbachwe try to do our best, sometimes it's not easy because we didn't do a transition that debian did already or the other way around05:44
=== andresmujica [n=andresmu@201.244.244.26] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachfor example debian decided to stick with gnome 2.14 for their release and have 2.16 in experimental05:45
dholbachwe're working on 2.17 already05:45
dholbachand then there are other decisions that just don't match05:45
dholbachbut there's a patches mailing list, which automatically send the patch when the upload happens05:46
dholbachand then there are maintainers working together closely05:46
dholbachwe have collaboration on different levels05:46
dholbachLKRaider: interested in that some more? or does that answer the question basically?05:47
LKRaiderit does, thank you :)05:47
dholbachalrighty05:48
=== mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachSo who of you could imagine joining the MOTUs at some point?05:48
dholbachnot now, not tomorrow, but in the near future?05:48
mruizme!05:48
=== rmjb is hopeful
LKRaiderme (maybe) :)05:48
pradeepme too .. at some point05:49
Neonightmareme also, i do what i can05:49
jorgpme05:49
dholbachrock and roll, that's nice to hear05:49
=== Lure is considering
=== elkbuntu can picture dholbach on the other side of the internet doing the Mr Burns 'Eeeeeexcellent'
vicoxme too05:49
dholbachsuper05:49
zilo_me05:49
elkbunturmjb> QUESTION: so the process is 1. get ubuntu membership, 2. get ubuntu-dev membership, 3. get ubuntu-motu membership?05:50
dholbachso if you haven't done already - try to pick somebody from the mentors list and ask them for help if you need05:50
zilo_It's interesting working with such a big team05:50
dholbachrmjb: drop the 3rd point. ubuntu-dev means MOTU05:50
=== tictacaddict [n=josh@26.102.dhcp.hope.edu] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachrmjb: there's only ubuntu-core-dev to go for afterwards, which means upload rights to main and restricted too05:50
rmjbokay, got that now05:51
dholbachalrighy05:51
dholbachwho here finds the whole idea of joining the MOTU still intimidating or not easy to achieve?05:51
zilo_So if I wan't to put mu own program into ubuntu it is possible right?05:51
dholbachzilo_: absolutely05:51
dholbachzilo_: if you need help with the packaging, ask in #ubuntu-motu or on the mailing list05:52
juliuxist (/msg ChanServ HELP LEVEL05:52
zilo_ok05:52
dholbachcool05:52
=== Chastell [n=shot@dsm6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
mruizif someone can help you, I think that must be easy to join MOTU team05:53
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachit absolutely is - the huge list of merges is a good start and we have a good motu school session about that one already05:54
dholbachIf you want to join the MOTU and help making Universe ROCK, start here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU05:54
dholbachand remember: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/motu.png05:54
rmjblol05:54
LKRaiderhaha05:54
mruizlol05:54
Neonightmare;-)05:54
kalon34lol, very good dholbach ^^ ;)05:55
dholbachIf there's no more question I think we should let the room settle down for the next session, which is about KDE, I believe.05:55
Neonightmarebig thx05:55
zilo_:D05:56
kalon34thanks a lot for your explanations05:56
mruizthanks dholbach05:56
=== thaile [n=thaile@85-124-150-144.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Bourlotieristhank you05:56
cs_studen1thx, great session05:56
=== anschel [n=anschel@h-67-101-192-95.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Neonightmarecu in #ubunut-motu ...05:56
dholbachit was a big pleasure05:56
mruizdholbach, next week I will contact you05:56
dholbachRock On! :)05:56
mruizbye...05:57
LKRaiderthanks dholbach05:58
=== Maikel [i=ma1kel@cp305656-b.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
dholbachanytime05:58
jorgpthanks dholbach, great work05:58
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
rmjbthanks dholbach, great session... and salesmanship05:59
Maikelwhen does the next session start?05:59
dholbachhaha05:59
elkbuntusee, i told you all he was cool :)05:59
elkbuntuMaikel, soon05:59
rmjbis imbrandon here?05:59
=== zing [n=ircer@c-24-20-58-211.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Maikelthanks05:59
elkbuntunot quite yet :|05:59
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Maikelhow late is it in UTC?06:00
lumpki17:00 utc06:00
anschelalmost06:00
=== Adri2000 [n=Adri2000@unaffiliated/adri2000] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
lumpkiwhat's next?06:00
elkbuntukubuntu06:01
=== SimonAnibal [n=sruiz@adsl-70-239-93-102.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Maikelwhen the session starts is someone gonna set a special chan mode?06:02
anschelwho's leading "Kubuntu"06:02
anschel?06:02
Maikel- Brandon Holtsclaw06:02
elkbuntuaka, imbrandon06:02
anschelthnx06:02
=== deque [n=deque@70.58.177.108] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== pyro [n=pyro@r190-64-42-175.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== deque_ [n=deque@70.58.177.108] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== imbrandon [n=imbrando@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandongooooooooood morning everyone ( now that my internet is working correctly )06:12
=== rrittenhouse [n=tad@cpe-76-188-35-66.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternalmornin' sir06:12
ma1kelmorning06:12
imbrandonhow are we doing? anyone here to talk shop about kubuntu ?06:12
LKRaider*afternoon ;)06:12
TheGateKeeperok guys06:12
nixternal48 minutes before noon ;)06:12
TheGateKeeperI like kubuntu but what has motivated me to look to another distro is that you if you upgrade there is a more than reasonable chance the system will break, a clean install (seems to be required) & (k)ubuntu is slow when compared to other distros like arch. So my question is there anything you can do to address these issues?06:12
nixternalya imbrandon06:12
nixternalyou are ;p06:12
elkbuntuok everyone. lets keep qustions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat :)06:12
nixternali just realised i am great at editing existing web pages, but suck when it comes to creating them from scratch06:13
nixternaldoh..thought we were elsewhere...so sorry06:13
elkbuntuunless imbrandon is happy for a free-for-all in here, of course?06:13
imbrandonTheGateKeeper: yea we even developers hate that about a transition , we are working very very hard so that is no longer the case06:13
kalon34good evening imbrandon06:13
=== rrittenhouse [n=tad@cpe-76-188-35-66.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tonyk [n=tonyking@cpc1-bolt9-0-0-cust928.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== cstrauss [n=cstrauss@c9344c0b.virtua.com.br] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
imbrandonok since i'm running a little late we'll just skip right to the Q & A , if you would keep those to #ubuntu-classroom-chat and nixternal and elkbuntu will paste them in here06:14
imbrandonsound good?06:14
imbrandonTheGateKeeper: but yes, that is a major issue, and is very high priority to have fixed from this release onwards06:15
kalon34maybe could you shortly describe what are you doing in Kubuntu, imbrandon ?06:15
TheGateKeeperimbrandon, I get the feeling, may be incorrectly, that upgrading from breezy --> dapper is likely to be safer/more successfull than dapper --> edgy?06:15
=== Kokey [n=Ubunture@189.155.26.148] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== stalefries [n=stalefri@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== deepcore [n=tobias@p5498A010.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonTheGateKeeper: currently , that is the case , unfortunately06:16
imbrandonok kalon3406:16
kalon34thanks :)06:16
=== Casanova [n=prash@unaffiliated/casanova] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonwell , My Name is Brandon Holtsclaw, I'm one of the ubuntu Core Developers that work on Kubuntu, no i'm not paid by canonical, My main goals are to have devices in kubuntu "just work" like when you plugin your Zune or iPod it works etc etc etc06:17
=== adomanski [n=adomansk@p54AFC1F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
imbrandonalong with that06:17
nixternal[   anschel]  QUESTION: How did you decide which KDE programs to use (konversation, konqueror, etc.) and    jordi which "generic" ones (openoffice)06:18
imbrandonI mostly maintain Amarok and Konversation in Kubuntu and touch alot of other projects along the way ( like mythtv etc ), and work very closely with people like hobbsee , Riddell , Tonio etc06:18
imbrandondaily to make Kubuntu what it si :)06:18
nixternalthat was a really goofy paste06:19
anschelimbrandon?06:19
imbrandonanschel: well durring Kubuntu meetings ( that have been sus[ended untill after the holidays ) we look at what apps we use by default, we try to use the best kde app for the job whenever humanly possible06:19
kalon34yes, I saw your name in Amarok uploads in edgy and feisty-changes-request ^^06:20
nixternalanschel: one sec, im sure he is hitting the mt. dew ;)06:20
imbrandonas far as the openoffice, that really is the only "generic" app and we're working closely with the koffice guys to get koffice 2 by default, the reason its not now it simple it wont support MS office formats06:20
nixternalma1kel]  QUESTION: What's are the major prioritys for the next Kubuntu release?06:20
imbrandonma1kel: there are ALOT of things we're going to be working on, but as far as "overall" we're really looking to take the inovation and bold new things we put in in edgy and make them polished into a smooth system, really put some polish and clean up the rough edges06:22
nixternalanother question in 5s06:22
Lurema1kel: also update-manager to make upgrades more robust06:22
nixternal[   kalon34]  QUESTION : It's more personal, but how can you do such important things in Kubuntu and not    jorgp working at Canonical ?06:22
=== flossgeek [n=flossgee@62-30-117-58.cable.ubr03.perr.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonLure: right on06:22
nixternalahh. i know the paste problem now06:23
=== jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonkalon34: i'm not sure what your asking but , i think its "how can i do important things in kubuntu without working for canonical?" if thats correct of me, then i have to say Canonical underites Ubuntu and its projects like Kubuntu but I'm part of the community and a Core Developer and just made my way through the processes, you dont have to work for Canonical to become a Core Developer or even a MOTU or just contribute06:24
imbrandonif you ment something diffrent feel free to ask again06:25
nixternalkalon34: i believe even deeper, a majority of us enjoy working for free to create freedom06:25
kalon34no, I was that.06:25
nixternal<nixternal>QUESTION: What are Kubuntu's plans for composite by default for 7.04?06:26
=== nixternal knows the answer, but everyone should know as well ;)
imbrandonnixternal: we wont be using a composite manager this round, we are waiting to see what kwin support ( it should have support ) in kde406:27
imbrandonso thats on track for the06:27
imbrandonfeisty+1 schedule if at all06:27
nixternal\o/ YAY! Thanks bud06:27
poningrusomeone update the topic please06:27
=== michi [n=michi@p54B59E90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternaldholbach: could you update the topic?06:28
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:dholbach] : Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Current
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o dholbach] by dholbach
nixternalrmjb]  QUESTION: Since Ubuntu and Kubuntu are the same "underneath" where does Ubuntu end and Kubuntu begin?06:28
kalon34nixternal: yes, me too as a bugsquad member, support answerer and french translator, but I know it takes some time to do this in a good way, so I imagine a developper invest more time, and I think it is difficult.06:29
imbrandonBTW just as a side note , Kubuntu is always looking for contributors , you dont have to be a "Core" dev etc to help out, just stop by on irc and we'll always point you in the right direction06:29
imbrandonnixternal is a poster child for a none coder helping :)06:29
imbrandon( thats a good thing )06:29
nixternaladding to what imbrandon just said: if you can't code, document ;)06:29
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o dholbach] by ChanServ
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:dholbach] : Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Current session: Kubuntu
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o dholbach] by dholbach
imbrandonok rmjb question06:30
=== thaile [n=thaile@85-124-150-144.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
imbrandonwhere does ubuntu end and kubuntu begin, thats kinda a fuzzy line, but mostly its in the default setting of the desktop programs and the selection of them06:30
imbrandonthe "core" and the core goals stay the same06:31
=== barry [n=barry@216-15-33-253.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonlike getting it all on one cd , the the beleifs etxc06:31
imbrandonif you06:31
imbrandonare on the tech side of the house it ends at "ubuntu-desktop' and kubuntu-desktop packages06:31
imbrandonthats how we make those choices06:32
=== hybrid_ [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonso the base system "ubuntu-base" is still exactly the same untouched06:32
=== fabbione [i=fabbione@gordian.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Rondom [n=Rondom@p54AEE855.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternallotusleaf]  QUESTION: Kdar will not install in Edgy (and some have said it doesn't install in feisty, will Feisty include Kdar, if not, what will replace it?06:33
imbrandonlotusleaf: if it wont install at all that is a bug and should be address with a SRU foe edgy ( some things slip through the cracks unfortunately ) and durring the release cycle of feisty it will be installable06:34
imbrandonso for now i dont beleave we are looking for a replacement06:34
nixternalBourlotie]  QUESTION: Would you rather be a Canonical employee and work full time on Kubuntu? Do you think that this would make your work more efficiently?06:34
=== WB|Diego [n=Diego@p5498132A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
WB|Diegohi06:35
nixternalimbrandon: lotusleaf pasted a bug as well - maybe look into it further after the show if possible06:35
imbrandonBourlotieris: personaly this is a hard question, I would love to work for canonical sometime , but on that other side of that I have a great job that my company fully supports FLOSS and they let me take time in my day to work on kubuntu some06:35
imbrandonand i spend a whole lot of free time on it too06:36
=== nixternal notes A LOT of time for imbrandon
imbrandonbut "would i LIKE to" yes i think its every techies dream to do something they love for a living06:36
nixternal<siretart> when is kde4 scheduled for release?06:36
imbrandonsiretart: there isnt a "hard" schedule atm but they are shooting for about the end of the feisty cycle for an "official" / "final" release, thus we are looking at it for feisty+106:37
imbrandonbut will have the librarys and snapshots in feisty06:38
imbrandon( they are in the repos now )06:38
nixternalif kde4 comes out during the end or right after the release of feisty, will we backport?06:38
imbrandonKDE from what i understand is looking to make KDE4 releases time based like GNOME ones so distros like us can count on certain times06:38
imbrandonif thats a 6 month table or not is yet to be seen06:39
imbrandonnixternal: not officialy, it might end up on kubuntu.org for early adopters06:39
nixternalthanks06:39
=== bhtb [n=bhtb2@dsl-241-76-46.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Olof [n=Miranda@c80-217-104-135.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tictacaddict is now known as tictacaddict_
nixternalanschel]  QUESTION: If KDE is on a different schedule from Gnome will Kubuntu Still come out every six months?06:40
imbrandonanschel: yes, definately , for the forseable future we have no plans on splitting the kubuntu/ubuntu releases, there has been talk about it in the past but it would not help us or our users or upstream to doso at the moment06:41
=== adomanski [n=adomansk@p54AFC1F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tictacaddict_ is now known as tictacaddict
nixternal<nixternal> QUESTION: would you happen to know the current status of Kubuntu Herd 1?06:42
=== tictacaddict is now known as tictacaddict_
=== sunwukong [n=sunwukon@pra13-2-82-235-212-185.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonafaik its right on time, the first disk release of a devel cycle is always a bit shakey as they need to work out things like the D-I etc etc , but everything is going right on as planned in the FeistyReleaseSchedule afaik06:43
imbrandonalso that brings up06:43
imbrandonif you would like to help our semi-orginised testing efferts you are more than welcome to06:43
nixternal[      rmjb]  QUESTION: how is Kubuntu art handled?06:44
imbrandonjoin #kubuntu-testers and test things like the Herd 1 release etc , and give feedback directly to us06:44
kalon34:/join #ubuntu-testers06:45
imbrandonrmjb: since Dapper kubuntu Artwork has been handeled by Ken Weimer ( kwwii on irc ) , he has done a bangup job imho and has been asked to come back this cycle also, he works with input ( and sample art from the community ) and makes sure its smooth in the distro06:45
kalon34oups, sorry ^^06:45
imbrandonBUT also this time nuno will be joining kwwii , they will share the AiC title for Feisty06:46
rmjbAiC/06:46
rmjb?06:46
imbrandonrmjb: Artist in Cheif, a role choose by Mark Shuttleworth each cycle for ubuntu and kubuntu ( they are both paid Canonical Contractors )06:46
rmjbcool, thanks06:47
nixternal[ lotusleaf]  QUESTION: Do you have any plans to throw new releases of Amarok, Koffice, etc. into one directory so additional entries for new versions between each don't have to be manually added to sources.list each time, and instead can be checked for updates? maybe a bleeding edge or beta repo, so only one line is added and remains for all new bleeding edge builds? (rather than adding amarok, koffice, etc. individual lines each tim06:47
nixternallet me know if that all pasted06:47
imbrandonnixternal: yes it did ....06:47
nixternalcool06:47
=== tsmithe [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternalhave fun reading that one ;p06:48
=== LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonlotusleaf: i know we are going to "clean up" kubuntu.org repos , but for the mostpart we are working with the backports team more closely now and you will see alot more of that in official backports06:48
=== ma1kel [i=ma1kel@cp305656-b.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
imbrandonbut all in all , yes it will hapen one way or another06:48
=== ma1kel [i=ma1kel@cp305656-b.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
Lurelotusleaf: Riddell kind of preffer to have it separated...06:49
imbrandonLure: right but ther is always "amarok-latest" etc06:49
imbrandon:)06:49
nixternalnext?06:49
imbrandonyea06:49
nixternal[  LKRaider]  QUESTION: how large is the core kubuntu team right now?06:49
Lureimbrandon: problem is that we would need something like "kubuntu-backports" (half-official)06:49
=== apater [n=apater@S0106000f66d5d11e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternal[  poningru]  1 <--he made a funny06:50
imbrandonLKRaider: ummm if i'm not missing anyone 4 to 5 , Riddell , Lure, Myself , Tonio and ......06:50
imbrandonLure: ^^ help me out on that one06:50
nixternalRaphink06:51
imbrandonahh yes raphink06:51
Lureimbrandon: 3-4 core-dev's (Riddell, Tonio_, imbrandon, raphink) that work some on kubunut06:51
Luresome -> most ;-)06:51
nixternalkubunut, is that a new release? ;p06:51
=== apater [n=apater@S0106000f66d5d11e.vc.shawcable.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
imbrandonbut we have some dedicated MOTU's also like Hobbsee and Nixternal06:52
imbrandonbut all in all MOTU's + Core-Developers we numnber in less than 1006:52
=== nixternal isn't really a MOTU yet, but I play one on IRC
imbrandonnixternal: ...... next ? heh06:52
Lureimbrandon: and there are active upstream supporters (SIme_, sebas, toma...) and debian (allee, fabo...)06:53
nixternalthey are quiet06:53
=== Riot777 [n=riot777@unaffiliated/riot777] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
poningru:p06:53
nixternalimbrandon: anschel wonders how he can join the kubuntu cult?06:53
LaserJocksacrifice some C++ on the kdelibs alter?06:53
LaserJockjust kidding06:54
nixternalheh06:54
imbrandonanschel: well the best way at the moment since its not really documents and i just realized that is ....06:54
imbrandonLaserJock: hahah06:54
imbrandonanschel: hang out in these three IRC channells and start asking for "jr jobs" #kubuntu-devel ( where we work on the core kubuntu ) #kubuntu-testers and #ubuntu-motu06:54
imbrandon^^ thats for the coding side06:55
Lureanschel: just drop in #kubuntu-devel and talk06:55
imbrandonif you want something non coding nixternal can fill you in06:55
=== kosuke [n=kevin@ool-4578146f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternalthere will be plenty of non-coding work starting soon06:55
nixternal[ lotusleaf]  QUESTION: will Kubuntu ever have Cinelerra?06:56
imbrandonBTW everyone , nixternal is our helpfull Kubuntu Doc guy that works relentlessly on the Ubuntu Doc team06:56
sidHow many core kubuntu devs are there?(full time?)06:56
Lureimbrandon: and on great release announcements!06:56
imbrandonlotusleaf: I hosnestly am not even aware of that program , but we are always open to sugestions and go through the sugestion list semi often06:56
Luresid: 106:56
sidAnd how many core gnome devs?06:57
imbrandonsid: well 3 , one paid ( for kubuntu )06:57
imbrandonfull time06:57
imbrandonand ubuntu there are about 10 to 15 , depending on the day06:57
imbrandon:)06:57
Lurelotusleaf: you may want to add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates/Kubuntu06:57
imbrandonLure: yes i was just looking for the url, add it to that please lotusleaf06:58
imbrandonsid: full time core devs for kubuntu is myself ( community ) tonio ( community ) and riddell ( canonical )06:58
nixternal<nixternal> QUESTION: will Kubuntu continue calling itsel the GNU/Linux distro for everyone? (emphasis on GNU/Linux since Ubuntu doesn't state that)06:59
imbrandonyes officialy , and no personaly06:59
imbrandonhaha if that makes sense06:59
sidDoes it say GNU/Linux on the website anywhere?06:59
sidI think this is important also.07:00
nixternali got you imbrandon07:00
imbrandonsid: on the kubuntu.org website , yes07:00
imbrandonsid: but there is differing opinons on weather the GNU/ should stay07:00
sidhttp://www.ubuntu.com/news/sunfire07:00
sidIt says GNU/Linux on some parts of Ubuntu.com, but not on the main page.(where it counts)07:01
imbrandonsid: correct and IMHO it /shouldent/ but thats something thats just my opinoin and should be left to the CC07:01
imbrandonman , so many typo's today07:02
=== kalon33 [n=kalon33@i02v-62-34-145-118.d4.club-internet.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternalgood job nonetheless mr brandon07:02
=== thotz [n=thomas@M3715P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
kalon33thanks for chatting with us and reply to our questions imbrandon07:03
nixternalquestions have stopped it seems, how about a nice exit quote to make people feel all tingly inside?07:03
imbrandonsid: stay tuned to my blog as to why IMHO we should not have GNU/ listed in the name, i'll post my personal opinon today sometime07:03
=== ash211 [n=andrew@user-11210ts.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== rmjb_ [n=richard@cuscon18007.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== thotz [n=thomas@M3715P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
imbrandonyup we are out of time it seems07:03
BourlotierisThank you07:03
imbrandoneveryone feel free to email me imbrandon@kubuntu.org with any other questions and i'll try to blog about them or get back to you07:03
imbrandoneveryone have a great day and rember "Kubuntu for president!!' :)07:04
=== twerner [n=twerner@i59F73D84.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
kalon33imbrandon:  yes I think, but on the doc team mailing list matthew east asked someone to replace you, and I haven't seen a positive reply.07:04
kalon33*to replace him07:04
=== cmn [n=carlos@82.159.198.200] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== elliotp_ [n=elliotp@adsl-83-100-208-156.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
imbrandonkalon33: yea i'm not sure about that situation but i think matt is moving on to other things07:05
imbrandonnot sure 100%07:05
LaserJockI'm here to do the Doc Team presentation07:05
imbrandonok LaserJock , its all yours07:05
=== imbrandon steps down from the soapbox
lumpkithanks imbrandon and the kubuntu team07:06
LaserJockok, can I get a Question tracker volunteer? :-)07:06
sidWill there be an option in Feisty to only install free software? So as I'm going through the installer I can go somewhere(advanced options?) and check "Only free software", so it doesn't use binary blobs or anything non-free.07:06
kalon33if you want so ^^07:06
nixternalLaserJock: i can do it if you would like07:06
LaserJocknixternal: that would be cool, thanks. Also pipe in when you want. We might need to tag-team this one07:06
ma1kelwhats matthew east's nickname?07:07
LaserJockmdke07:07
=== rrittenhouse [n=tad@cpe-76-188-35-66.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockMatthew East is not able to make the doc team session so I'm filling in07:07
ma1kelah thanks07:07
sidimbrandon: You post to planet.ubuntu*?07:07
nixternal\o/ YAY LaserJock07:07
LaserJockWelcome everybody!07:07
nixternalsid: yes he does07:07
sidk07:07
kalon33nice that you replace him LaserJock07:07
LaserJockMy name is Jordan Mantha07:08
LaserJockand I'm a member of the doc team07:08
zilo_Hello LaserJock07:08
LaserJockso lets get started with what exactly the doc team is07:08
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o nixternal] by ChanServ
LaserJockthe Ubuntu Documentation Team is composed of people from Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu07:09
LaserJockwho all share a goal of creating the best documentation for Ubuntu (as a whole) that we can07:09
LaserJockit is *entirely* community run (there is nobody paid to work on the Doc Team)07:10
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:nixternal] : Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Current session: Ubuntu Documentation Project
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o nixternal] by ChanServ
=== macconline [n=macconli@190.37.36.185] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockThe core team is https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc but many others contribute to documentation all the time. To find out how to communicate with us, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact07:11
LaserJockThere are essentially two types of documentation that the team produces. The ultimate reference page for any information is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam07:11
LaserJock1. System documentation - this is written in a markup language called Docbook XML, and is hosted in our repository.07:11
LaserJock2. Online documentation - composed of an html version of (1), and a community driven wiki (https://help.ubuntu.com/community)07:12
=== datten_ [n=datten@xdsl-81-173-186-205.netcologne.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternalNOTE: System Documentation is also installed on your system (read Help)07:12
LaserJockyes, the System Documentation is what we ship on the CD07:13
LaserJockand is found in the help systems07:13
LaserJockright now it's composed of a series of guides07:13
LaserJockwe have the Desktop Guide07:13
LaserJockServer Guide07:14
LaserJockPackaging Guide07:14
LaserJockand then you also have things like "About Ubuntu" and Release Notes07:14
=== Faramir [n=faramir@dD5761179.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockOK, so how does one contribute to the system documentation?07:15
LaserJockDiving in and trying things out is the best way to begin getting involved.07:15
LaserJockDownload our repository, and start getting familiar with the markup language by reading and editing some existing documents. We have a validation tool included which will tell you where there is an error in the document markup. If you are confused, you can ask in #ubuntu-doc or on the mailing list, and you will generally get some help, but you should be patient!07:15
LaserJockhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects shows a list of projects07:16
nixternallet me know when you are ready to field a question07:16
LaserJockhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository will show you how to get the Subversion repository07:17
LaserJockand get you started with editing07:17
LaserJocknixternal: sure I'll take it07:17
nixternal[  LKRaider]  QUESTION: how does the doc team work with internationalization teams?07:17
LaserJockwell, I'll talk more about that later, but the basics are we create templates for the docs that are put on Rosetta for the translation teams to work on07:18
LaserJockand then we gather the translations and put then in the documentation packages07:18
LaserJockwe have been very careful to "freeze" our docs early enough that translators have a decent amount of time to translate07:18
LaserJockok, so some easy areas to contribute with system documentation:07:19
LaserJockProof reading is a good way to get involved. Also, we have a number of bugs open about typos, errors, omissions, which you can try and fix. See https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/+bugs and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bugs (in the latter link substitute ubuntu-docs with xubuntu-docs or kubuntu-docs if interested in that variant!)07:20
=== finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockSome of the key tasks for the system documentation are:07:20
LaserJock1. Improving the navigability and readability of the help (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TopicBasedHelp).07:21
LaserJock2. Incorporating material from the Official Ubuntu Book into appropriate sections in the system documentation, amending the style accordingly.07:21
LaserJock3. Addressing areas which are missing from the documentation, in particular by reviewing material on the wiki/forum/mailing lists and converting it to docbook for inclusion in the system documentation (there is a good tool for doing this conversion).07:21
LaserJock4. Updating existing information which is no longer valid due to inclusion of new features in Feisty.07:21
LaserJockOK, I'd like to open it up for questions about system documentation07:22
nixternal<nixternal> QUESTION: can you explain the Topic Based Help07:22
LaserJockheh, loaded questions, I love it!07:22
=== nixternal fills in
LaserJocktraditionally we have shipped discrete "guides"07:23
LaserJockwhere each guide has a specific target audience and set of topics07:23
LaserJockmore like a book, essentially07:23
LaserJockbut it makes it hard for users to get what they want07:23
LaserJockthey aren't interested in reading a book as much as they are interested in learning about a specific topic07:24
LaserJockso we are working on rearranging the contents of our guide to reflect that07:24
LaserJockin fact it should look a quite a bit like the help wiki main page07:24
LaserJockhttp://help.ubuntu.com/community/07:25
sidWould the non-free software in Ubuntu fall under system documentation? or no?07:25
sidlike binary blob/binary codec wrapper stuff07:25
LaserJockdepends on what you mean07:25
sidAre there any templates for explaining to users the pitfalls of non-free software?(ie binary blobs/binary codec wrappers etc) Explaining to them how their data is locked into a format that helps the developers of the format make more money? Or what direction will the non-free software aspect of Ubuntu go?07:25
LaserJockwe do document non-free codecs, etc.07:25
sidWell I'm talking about the education stuff for feisty07:26
=== OgMaciel [n=omaciel@ubuntu/member/gnukemist] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
sidIs there a design for that yet? Or is it too early?07:26
LaserJockwe don't quite have as much on education07:26
LaserJockbut I'm sure that will come along07:26
nixternal[  LKRaider]  QUESTION: any plans of introducing more context sensitive help on the system?07:26
nixternali think that leads back to Topic Based Help if I'm not mistaken07:26
LaserJockperhaps07:26
LaserJockLKRaider: the answer to that is basically, we'd like to but we are also bound by the help systems provided by upstreams07:27
LaserJockso right now we'd like to do more, but Gnome and KDE haven't developed their topic based help systems yet07:28
LaserJockLKRaider: does that somewhat answer your question?07:28
LKRaiderIt does. I would like to see a help tightly integrated into the system tho :)07:28
=== pingswept [n=brandon@dsl092-078-160.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockyes, we would too07:28
LaserJockright now there are technical reasons why that isn't so easy07:29
LaserJockone is licensing07:29
LaserJockone is a system to actual integrate, the Gnome and KDE help systems aren't so great for that07:29
sidLaserJock: Do you have an opinion on the direction the non-free documentation should go? Will the text be worded so the users want to not use non-free software at all? Meaning they won't want to save their home movies in .wmv, or more strong would be they don't accept .doc files in their email and only accept odf? In your opinion how strong should the documentation be in favor of open standards and free/libre software? Or should it just make them 07:29
LaserJockheh07:30
=== nixternal despises documenting non-free and will refuse to do so
sidIf that cut off let me know, my last word was "exists?"07:30
LaserJockok, well some of that will certainly depend on what the Ubuntu Technical Board does with some of the issues we face in Feisty07:30
=== th1_ [n=tommi@dsl-lprgw1-fea5de00-78.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
sidNot sure the char limit per message on freenode.07:31
LaserJocksid: my cut off at "just make them"07:31
LaserJockbut to be honest, our job is to document the Ubuntu project and not so much to make policy decisions07:31
LaserJockwe do have to decide how we handle certain things07:31
sidOr should itjust make them aware of the non-free software, just so they know it exists?07:32
LaserJockfor instance we have chosen to try to use GUI tool wherever possible in our documentation07:32
LaserJockI'm almost certain we will at least show the user the choices07:33
LaserJockand explain why certain things are non-free07:33
nixternalexcellent07:33
LaserJockwe already do that a fair amount with the restricted codecs07:33
LaserJockso I don't see that changing07:33
LaserJockbut to be honest that's really not a big deal07:33
LaserJockthe vast majority of our work has nothing to do with free vs non-free07:34
LaserJockLKRaider: can you ask you question here real quick07:34
=== tictacaddict_ is now known as tictacaddict
=== linuxuser1202 [n=defaultu@66.239.82.119] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
LKRaiderAbout the Ubuntu book, was it done by the doc team? Are there plans for releasing other books? (like a server book)07:35
LaserJockThe Ubuntu Book was not done by the doc team07:35
nixternalNOTE: a majority of our System Documentation documents the standard or default applications that are installed on the CD. Our wiki on the other hand is community created07:35
LaserJocka few of hte members of the doc team were among the authors07:35
LaserJockbut the publisher sought them out07:35
nixternal[    Rondom]  QUESTION: The wiki is rather unstructured. I don't know where to start. Are there any plans on a clean structure (categories like hardware->soundcards->xyz-soundcard-article)?07:36
LaserJockbut the Official Ubuntu Book was released under a license that will allow us to integrate it into the doc team material07:36
LaserJockwhich is very rare07:36
LaserJockOk, well rather then answering your question directly, let me now talk about the wiki docs07:37
LaserJock:-)07:37
LaserJockI might answer your question a little bit there07:37
LaserJockand we'll return to it if you want more07:37
LaserJockOK, so the wiki help is housed at help.ubuntu.com/community07:38
LaserJockthis again is a community run effort07:38
LaserJockthis wiki is open to everybody07:38
LaserJockso it is a very easy way to start getting involved with documentation07:38
LaserJockSimply log into the wiki (using your launchpad account), and correct errors you find in documents. Read existing documents to become familiar with the wiki markup, which is very simple.07:39
LaserJockAbove anything else, read the wiki guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide.07:39
LaserJockOne way of becoming familiar with the material and how we work is to begin reading it and checking it for accuracy.07:39
=== Neonightmare [n=chatzill@67-214.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockA number of more substantial "wiki-tasks" (as well as a list of pages that need serious attention) are listed on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiToDo.07:40
LaserJockSome of the key tasks are:07:40
LaserJock1. Improve the self-maintainability of the wiki by introducing easy tools for quality assurance (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance). This spec needs ideas, discussion and eventually some code!07:40
LaserJock2. Doing quality assurance to ensure users are given reliable information and can quickly identify how reliable a page is.07:40
LaserJock3. Improving existing material and adding new material to the wiki, in particular drawing on the immense resources offered by the forums (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum)07:41
=== ddaemon [n=ddaemon@user-0cdfb1m.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJock4. Clarify the license of material on the wiki by convincing the Community Council to approve the year-old specification (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing).07:41
=== adomanski [n=adomansk@p54AFC1F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
LaserJockA long-term goal is to bring the system documentation and the online documentation closer and closer together, so that eventually it is easy for the system documentation to draw on contributions via the wiki, and (the other side of the coin)07:41
LaserJockusers to browse and search all of the available documentation via a single interface, be it via the online website or the system help viewer. This goal is rather a large one, and is essentially waiting on the right tools to come together.07:41
LaserJockI'll let you read for a while07:42
LaserJockand then feel free to ask any wiki questions07:42
RondomLaserJock: I read, maybe not enough, I'm actually looking for some wiki-team-mailing list for discussing things or some results of discussions that were already made07:43
=== cmn [n=carlos@82.159.198.200] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockok, well the wiki team uses the doc team mailing list07:44
LaserJockubuntu-doc on lists.ubuntu.com07:44
Rondomthx07:44
LaserJockso feel free to introduce yourself and ask questions07:44
LaserJock#ubuntu-doc is also a great place for quick questions07:44
LaserJockif you are editing a wiki page and you're a little nervous about it you can always email the doc team and ask for a review07:45
nixternal[  LKRaider]  QUESTION: about porting stuff from the forums, do you have a team that does that, or just rely on users bringing the doc-work available there?07:46
LaserJockthere is a team07:46
LaserJockcomposed of forum and doc team people07:46
nixternalwiki forum team07:47
LaserJockright now it's not very active07:47
LaserJockas we are having licensing issues07:47
nixternalrather inactive at this point, possibly a good time to get active with that07:47
LaserJockone of the more complicated issues in documentation is licensing07:47
LaserJockwe are working towards have those worked out07:48
sidCan't you just setup the forum so they agree to submit their docs under the GFDL?07:48
sidAnd the wiki and whatever else.07:48
LaserJockwell, they are licensed under CC-SA07:49
LaserJockI believe07:49
LaserJockand the wiki doesn't currently have a license07:49
=== bhtb1 [n=bhtb2@dsl-241-76-46.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Faramir [n=faramir@dD5761179.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockbut it is proposed to be more of a Public Domain style07:49
sidSo can't you setup the wiki and forum and whatever else, so they can't submit unless they agree to put their works in the public domain?07:50
=== leone8 [n=leone8@adsl-ull-252-114.44-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockwell07:50
LaserJockthe issue is you have potentially thousands of authors07:50
sidAlthough I prefer CC-SA or GFDL as opposed to the public domain.07:50
leone8Hello everybodyyyyy!!!!! :-)07:50
sidSomething about microsoft turning my documentation into non-freeness and then selling it makes me want to vomit.07:50
LaserJockso right now what you can do is if you find a howto on the forums you want to put on the wiki07:51
=== ajmitch [n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockyou need to ask the author for permission to put it on the wiki07:51
leone8I've seen that topic will be "Ubuntu ports"...What about?07:51
LaserJockif we had compatible licenses we could do some "mass" moving of documentation07:52
LaserJockleone8: check the Open Week page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek07:52
sidWikipedia does it the best imho, almost all of their work is under GFDL07:52
=== mbamford [n=Matt@d207-81-186-112.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJocknixternal: you still here?07:53
nixternalus[  LKRaider]  QUESTION: continuing on lumpki's question, the brazilian-doc-team have made their wiki pages signed by "maintainers", where users can turn to ask questions on the topic of the page to request help. What do you think of this idea?07:53
leone8LaserJock thanks!! Now it's alright! :-)07:53
sidThe idea should be to promot more documentation(GFDL), just like promoting more free software(GPL). imho.07:53
nixternalwas waiting to post that07:53
LaserJockdid we get to lumpki's question07:53
nixternalits up there somewhere07:53
nixternalheh, guess i didn't07:54
LaserJocksid: well, GFDL is often considered non-free so sometimes that's an issue07:54
nixternal[    lumpki]  QUESTION: How can users identify how reliable a wiki page is?07:54
=== seppe [n=seppe@85-18-66-19.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJocklumpki: well, right now it's pretty tough07:54
LaserJockbut that is an area we are keen on improving07:54
LaserJockwe'd sure welcome and suggestions or help07:55
nixternallumpki: it is tough, but if at all possible, people on the wiki team go through and test it. and then usually clean it up and post it for good..it would be nice to have a comments section on the bottom of each help page for people to say yes it worked or no im dead07:55
lumpkior maybe a voting system07:55
=== cgillogly [n=cgillogl@cpe-71-66-255-189.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== nixternal notes it would rock to vote
nixternalya07:56
LaserJocklumpki: more info check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpWikiQualityAssurance07:56
nixternalhehe07:56
cgillogly#ubuntu-classroom-chat07:56
LaserJocksomething like a "Did this page work for you?" kind of thing07:56
LaserJockLKRaider: I don't think it would work to well on our scale07:57
=== seppe [n=seppe@85-18-66-19.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockok, let me just wrap up here with a couple translation items07:57
LaserJockIf you are a translator, and are interested in helping out translating the Ubuntu documentation into your language, all you need to know is how to use the Rosetta translation system07:57
LaserJockhttp://launchpad.net/rosetta07:58
LaserJockYou can find out how to use that on the Rosetta wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rosetta.07:58
=== PriceChild [n=pricechi@unix0.york.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockOnce you have learnt all of this, the docteam documents can be found in several places:07:58
=== luisbg [n=LuisB_G@87.217.147.115] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/ubuntu-docs07:58
LaserJockhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/kubuntu-docs07:59
LaserJockhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/xubuntu-docs07:59
LaserJockOK, that's it for me07:59
LaserJockand we're out of time07:59
LKRaiderthere is still 1 minute! :P07:59
nixternalthanks LaserJock, rockin' job!07:59
=== nixternal slips out for lunch in 5
LaserJockso I'd just encourage everybody to take a look at the Documentation Team08:00
ma1kelmy goverment rocks to be honest08:00
nixternal4, 3, 2, 1.....08:00
LKRaidergreat presentation LaserJock08:00
bhtb1tx!08:00
LaserJockhead over to #ubuntu-docs if you have more questions08:00
LaserJocknixternal and I will be over there for a while08:00
=== LaserJock out
LaserJock;-)08:00
nixternal#ubuntu-doc08:01
LaserJockThanks Everybody!!08:01
nixternalheh08:01
sidthanks LaserJock08:01
LaserJockdarn08:01
nixternaleveryone just created a new channel08:01
LKRaiderheh08:01
=== sol_ [n=sol@59.93.200.24] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
nixternalimbrandon: your turn again?08:02
LaserJockoh, actually there isn't another session scheduled now08:02
=== sol_ is now known as dawn
sidSo nothing is scheduled now?08:02
nixternalahh, he removed it08:02
LKRaiderpackaging?08:02
nixternalsid: lunch is scheduled ;)08:03
=== nixternal eats
LKRaiderpackaging 101 was removed?08:03
=== sid opens up his e-lunch box with the hurd on it.
LaserJockso if anybody has any Ubuntu questions about anything we can chat a little08:03
=== kosuke [n=kevin@ool-4578146f.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== dawn is now known as abhi
ma1kelwhen are you guys planning world domination?08:03
=== nixternal wonders when RMS will announce the end of Hurd development
=== abhi is now known as abhidg
bhtb1so is that 4 2nite?08:03
ma1kelno08:04
ma1keltheres another session08:04
=== abhidg is now known as dgabhi
ma1kelin an hour08:04
sidnixternal: The hurd is a good design, just extremely difficult to debug.08:04
bhtb1tx08:04
LaserJockma1kel: I thought we were already planning world domination :-)08:04
stgrabernixternal: Have you ever seen RMS announcing the end of a GNU project ?08:04
LKRaiderI know nothing about the Hurd08:04
sidI think GNU/Solaris is going to pop up soon, it looks like Sun guys want to steal some thunder from "Linux"08:05
LaserJockdoesn't it already exist08:05
sidOn the Sun press release for java they had rms and Eben Moglen as guest speakers, and they refered to it as "GNU/Linux"(yes teh Sun CEO said GNU/Linux)08:05
=== mrr00 [n=mrr@24-75-178-110-st.pittpa.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockbah08:05
sidAnd on the website they said free/libre too, and not just open source. interesting imho08:05
ma1kelI don't think the world needs another OS to code for08:05
LKRaiderSolaris is not GPL compatible, is it?08:06
tictacaddict"Nexenta OS"08:06
sidI think what they're going to do...is adopt GPLv3 for Solaris, and then talk about how everyone will be safe from patents because of v3, and Linux won't be apparently.08:06
ma1kelwell sid, cant you just make your own kernel project from the linux kernel?08:07
sidhttp://blogs.sun.com/webmink/date/2006113008:07
ma1kelso you make your own version of the kernel with gpl308:07
sidma1kel: yes, but under GPLv208:07
ma1kelhmmm08:07
nixternalstgraber: RMS recently said on a podcast that the Hurd project didn't have a great future ahead08:08
sidma1kel: Sun controls almost all the copyrights for Solaris, so they can license under GPlv3 and make people feel warm and cozy about being _safer_ from patents.08:08
=== nixternal lunch
ma1keltrue08:08
sidLinux(Linus) doesn't want to use GPLv3, and it would be very difficult if he did. It's really easy for Sun.08:09
sidI think Sun is going to make a move on the free software community and try to seduce them.08:09
ma1kelhaha, reminds me of ELER strip08:10
ma1kel*the08:10
sidThey're already started, the CEO says GNU/Linux...heh Who is he targetting with those words?08:10
sidanyway, nothing but goodness here imho. competition is good and the bottom line is we're all sharing each others work and collaborating anyway. I think it's great.08:11
LKRaideryep08:11
LKRaiderdid any opensuse developers come to ubuntu openweek? ;D08:12
LaserJocksid: regarding documentation of non-free stuff, I'm really not exactly sure what we'd document08:12
LaserJockLKRaider: yeah, some08:12
LKRaidercool :)08:12
LaserJockbut that really wasn't the goal of the Open Week08:12
LaserJockI'm glad to see so many people show up08:12
LKRaiderthere are non-free things in the commercial repo.08:13
ma1kelhttp://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/sandals-not-flip-flops08:13
ma1kelhaha08:13
LaserJockLKRaider: the Canonical repo?08:13
LKRaideryes08:13
LaserJockLKRaider: then that's Canonical's to document ;-)08:13
sidLaserJock: Well does your doc team do the "education" part from feisty goals...or is that someone else?08:13
LKRaiderLaserJock: ;)08:13
LaserJockah08:13
LaserJocksid: we'll probably be doing a little bit (we do already)08:14
sidsorry, my question wasn't clear08:14
jbaileynixternal: If you want to ask about Hurd dev, wait for 45 minutes. =)08:14
LaserJockLKRaider: we will certainly document the fact that the repo exists and what's in there08:14
LaserJockLKRaider: but the documentation team leaves actually documenting an app to the app's authors mainly08:15
LKRaiderokay08:15
LaserJocksid: the wiki is pretty open, people can do a fair amount there08:15
LaserJockbut we should really avoid being too controversial08:15
sidLaserJock: eh, not a lot of people visit the wiki comparitively to the eyeballs that will see the education pop-up window for non-free software.08:16
LaserJockah, for specifically a pop-up the devs will write that08:16
sidI'm concerned about the education pop-up that all *ubuntu users will see if/when they use non-free software.08:16
sidThere are lots of ways to word this thing.08:17
LaserJocksure08:17
LKRaiderhttp://www.getgnulinux.org/08:17
sidYou could say "It's just a binary blob, it lets you play more movies"08:17
LaserJockand I'm confident that the Technical Board and devs will word it well08:17
sidor you could say "It's a proprietary blob, that lets the developers of it control people who put their data in these formats, and it helps them make more money."08:17
sidThose are significantly different, and I see them both used on forums and other places.08:18
=== lumpki [n=lumpki@ACA35F96.ipt.aol.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
samgeeThe first one is pretty useless, they should really emphasise freedom08:20
sidI agree. freedom is key here.08:20
=== lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has left #uBUNtu-classROOM ["trombone"]
samgeeBut that's pretty hard to say in a short message08:21
LaserJockyep08:22
LaserJockbut I'm not sure how much they'll do08:22
LKRaider"By installing this you are helping a big corporation monopoly. Do you want to proceed?"08:22
Rondomlol08:22
=== MarkoKaa [n=MarkoKaa@a80-186-165-168.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
samgeemmh, we shouldn't be playing the anti-MS card either08:23
LaserJockthe vast majority of people won't care, I guess08:23
sidIs there going to be a popup everytime a restricted format plays?08:23
LaserJockno08:23
sidAnd they have an option to "don't show this warning again" checkbox08:23
LaserJockonly the first time when you need to install the codec08:24
LaserJockit's about installing, not using08:24
=== MartinY [n=MartinY@host86-134-8-212.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
sideh, no one is going to remember08:24
LaserJockright08:24
=== mrr00 [n=mrr@24-75-178-110-st.pittpa.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
sidReally all the formats are "restricted", except ogg(vorbis+theora), heh08:25
samgeeand Dirac08:25
sidAnd even ogg(theora+vorbis) is probably restricted in certain instances08:25
=== mrr00 [n=mrr@24-75-178-110-st.pittpa.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
samgeeand Flac :)08:25
LKRaider"This software is untested and might pose security risks. Proceed?"08:25
LaserJockbut the education spec is about binary drivers, not codecs08:26
sido, it's only going to cover nvidia/fglrx?08:26
ma1kelproceed, im so hardcore08:26
LKRaiderheh08:26
LKRaider"This software kills kittens. Proceed?"08:27
ma1kelALWAYS08:27
samgeelol08:27
=== markus_ [n=markus@ACB7643D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
sidToo bad Realplayer or Quicktime didn't support Ogg(theora+vorbis) by default.08:27
ma1kelVLC?08:27
sidyea, that probably supports it.(on windows)08:27
sidBut Quicktime/Real Player have such a bigger market share, VLC isn't even worth mentioning at all when it comes to market share.08:28
LaserJocksid: read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverEducation08:28
sidThe documentation Microsoft gave to the EU on thanksgiving covers wmv format iirc, I wonder if that will ever trickle down to the free software community.08:28
sidYou have to pay for the documentation. iirc08:28
ma1kelWhat's 100 laywers on a sinking ship?08:28
sidThe EU and Microsoft will agree on a reasonable payment for the documentation for wmv/server protocols/other crap that they are being forced to document08:29
sidma1kel: what?08:29
LaserJocksid: and for codec installation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyCodecInstallation08:29
ma1kela good begin08:29
sidheh08:30
=== ali__ [n=ali@217.218.71.22] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LaserJockok, I'm outta here08:31
LaserJockthanks for hanging around everybody08:31
LKRaiderbye LaserJock !08:31
=== LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== sid watches the Mac users join the channel and get ready to fight.
sids/Mac/PowerPC/08:33
=== dou213_ [n=x@e180227176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== dou213_ [n=x@e180227176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== dand [n=dand@dyn-85.186.137.18.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LKRaidersid: what EU & MS docs?08:36
=== bhtb [n=bhtb2@dsl-241-76-46.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
sidLKRaider: check europa.eu08:37
sidLKRaider: Microsoft has been fined almost a billion dollars so far..that case.08:37
sidLKRaider: The EU isn't like USA, USA would fine microsoft then forget about it.(they wouldn't make them give the docs) EU on the other hand, fines them...still forces them to give docs..then fines them twice as much if they don't do it fast enough.08:38
LKRaiderheh08:38
LKRaiderBrasil would not fine anyone. They just accept the pocket-money they get :P08:39
=== MartinY_ [n=MartinY@host86-134-8-212.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== LKRaider brazilian
sidLKRaider: So EU asked Microsoft nicely for a few months, Microsoft refused, then EU said they would fine 1 million euro a day, Microsoft dragged their feet and were kicking and screaming...then EU dropped the fine(hundreds of million of euro), then EU said give docs or we'll fine you 2 million euro a day(they still dragged their feet)..08:39
sidSo EU fined Microsoft again(hundreds of millions of Euro), now EU is saying they'll fine 3 million Euro a day..and they still want the docs.(EU is in the process of reviewing the docs it will take about 2 more weeks then they will have a decision if the third fine it coming or not)08:40
sidThey only want the most basic things, like server protocols, so other ISV's can make software that competes with Microsoft products.08:41
=== luisbg [n=LuisB_G@87.217.147.155] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== maniacmusician_ [n=maniacmu@24-151-30-234.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== jjtec1 [n=jjtech@c-68-53-206-214.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
LKRaiderhttp://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/06/445&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en08:48
LKRaiderfound it08:48
=== mogwai [n=mogwai@202.180.121.175] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== somerville32 [n=somervil@fctnnbsc15w-156034075054.nb.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== zilo_ [n=zilo@lbrat1-13-112.wmx.sk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== Limulf [n=Limulf@62.42.33.140] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
bhtbis ports next?08:53
=== sven [n=sven@i577BAC2B.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LKRaider"Article 24 of Regulation 1/2003 entitles the Commission to impose such penalty payments not exceeding 5% of average daily turnover in the preceding business year per day."08:54
LKRaiderwow08:54
LKRaiderthat's not even 5% of their daily turnover08:54
=== linuxboy_ [n=linuxboy@AFontenayssB-152-1-16-47.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Saelynh [n=saelynh@cha92-11-82-243-247-67.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
poningrudamn08:56
=== gouchi [n=gouchi@ivr94-8-88-162-27-162.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-014-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LKRaiderhttp://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=SPEECH/06/452&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en08:59
jbaileyGood morning all!09:00
jbaileyOr at least, it could be morning somewhere.09:00
bhtbevening09:00
jbaileyI went to a motivational speaker who said I should always behave as if I'm exactly where I want to be in life.09:00
gouchievening :)09:00
jbaileyAnd given that we're at that annoying temperature where it's cold, but no so cold I should wear warmer clothing, currently I Want to be in Hawai'i.09:01
linuxboy_hey !09:01
=== mulima [n=mulima@ABordeaux-253-1-72-108.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== swaby1 [n=aaron@ppp-69-218-232-67.dsl.wotnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== mulima [n=mulima@ABordeaux-253-1-72-108.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Ex-Chat"]
jbaileyHmm, need to be op to  twiddle the topic.09:01
jbaileynalioth: *poke*09:02
swaby1What is the current topic?09:02
LKRaiderevening! it is hot here :)09:02
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o nixternal] by ChanServ
bhtbports09:02
nixternalwhat is the topic ;)09:02
jbailey /topic #ubuntu-classroom is Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Current session: Ubuntu ports09:02
jbaileyplease. =)09:02
swaby1Oh I may be out of my league09:03
jbaileyswaby1: Nah.09:03
jbaileyswaby1: Stay.  the more hecklers I have, the more fun it will be. =)09:03
=== jorgp is ready
=== jbailey turns off his typing break.
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:nixternal] : is Welcome to Ubuntu Open Week, Nov 27 - Dec 2 between 3-10pm UTC, to see this in your timezone, visit http://tinyurl.com/ykqc67 | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Logs http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Questions+discussion in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | Current session: Ubuntu ports
jbaileynixternal: Thanks!09:04
nixternaljeesh09:04
nixternalnp09:04
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o nixternal] by ChanServ
nixternalback to work ;)09:04
jbailey= Introduction =09:04
jbaileyHello, and welcome!  My name is Jeff Bailey, and I'll be the source of the electrons flying across your screen for the next hour!  This is, I believe, the final session of the Ubuntu Open Week series.09:04
jbaileyThere are a few things I ask:09:04
jbailey * Please ask all questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat.  Because I'll be pasting, typing, and looking at both channels, there's a very real possibility that I simply won't see things posted here.09:04
jbailey * In the other channel, I have a nick highlight set on QUESTION.  Please use that to make sure my attention is drawn to questions.09:04
jbaileyExample:09:04
jbaileyQUESTION: Oy, Jeff!  When do we get the Hurd port in Ubuntu?09:04
=== luisbg [n=LuisB_G@87.217.146.157] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbailey * I don't have a third thing.  But my public speaking coaches always tell me to do things in threes.09:04
jbaileyA bit about myself.09:05
jbaileyI got involved in the Debian world in 1999 because of the Hurd.  I'd been using and hacking on the Hurd for sometime before that09:05
jbaileyand Marcus Brinkmann wanted someone to run the buildd so that he could focus on kernel work.  I ran the buildd for a while and09:05
jbaileysometime after that actually made it through the Debain New Maintainer process.  I still do the nightly Debian Installer snapshots09:05
jbaileyon ia64, but in the past have done them on sparc and hppa.  I participated in porting d-i for arm and alpha as well.09:05
=== Magusknight [n=magus@bas7-toronto12-1168019140.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyUpstream, I did some work in the 90's on helping with the port of GCC to SCO OpenServer and on porting glibc to Solaris 2.6.  I've09:05
jbaileydone other non-porting things, too, but that's not important right now.09:05
jbaileyIn Ubuntu land, I do porting work for hppa, ia64, sparc and powerpc.  I am an Ubuntu core-dev, and worked on the Distro Team for Canonical09:06
jbaileyfor about a year.  I still partcipate in toolchain work.09:06
jbaileyObDisclosure:  I am employed by Canonical and manage the operations side of the technical support organisation as well as the standard09:06
jbaileydo-everything that comes with being in a relatively small company.09:06
=== amnesia [n=amnesia@p549DFF5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ariel [n=ariel@251-185-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyFor those of you who are interesting in the Hurd, btw,09:07
jbaileyI gave a talk on that in 2003.09:07
jbaileyNot much has changed:09:07
jbaileyhttp://www.linuks.mine.nu/irc/hurd/ =)09:07
jbaileyhttp://ukai.org/d/index.cgi?2003-06-30-hurd-talk09:07
jbailey= Definitions =09:07
jbailey * A 'ports' architecture:  This is an processor/OS combination that is not supported directly by Canonical.  It has a few characteristics:09:07
jbailey   * It is not mirrored.09:07
jbailey   * If it's broken at release time, it will not block the release.09:07
=== ejm [n=kvirc@208.98.151.48] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbailey   * If it develops a critical security hole, it's up to the community to come up with a fix and get it in.09:08
jbailey(See?  Three can sometimes be a good number)09:08
jbaileyI see lots of people joining, I'd like to refer you to the log files in the topic if you're curious.09:08
jbailey * Soyuz: The part of Launchpad that actually builds and houses the distribution.09:08
jbailey * Kumquat: small oval citrus fruit with thin sweet rind and very acid pulp09:08
jbailey(Some of this next section is pre-history for me, so sorry if I have it slightly wrong)09:09
jbailey= hppa, ia64 =09:09
jbaileyThe two initial ports that came about were hppa and ia64.  These were largely pet projects by LaMont, who wanted his09:09
jbaileyfavourite architectures on the release schedule and with the community of Ubuntu.09:09
jbaileyThe ia64 architecture is not that interesting as a port, in that it's well supported by a large corporation and a target for a number09:09
jbaileyof major distributions.  We mostly inherit working things from upstream for this now.09:09
jbaileyNote that this isn't to say that it's not interesting as an architecture.09:09
jbaileyBut just that in general we can expect it to work.09:09
=== Magusknight [n=magus@bas7-toronto12-1168019140.dsl.bell.ca] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
jbaileyUniversity students everywhere look at the Itanic and study it.09:10
jbaileyAnd make presentations at the GCC summit and OLS.09:10
jbaileyFor those interested in Itanium specifically, I recommend googling for "gelato"09:10
jbaileyhppa on the other hand is an interesting challenge.  While hardware is currently still available, it won't be soon.  It was09:10
jbaileyalso a bit of a technological anomaly in terms of stack handling, atomic operations and such.  hppa wasn't able to participate09:10
jbaileyin the edgy release, and is now struggling to re-enter the archive with Feisty.09:10
jbaileyhppa is a bit of a pet project of mine, specifically because it *doesn't* have great upstream support.09:11
jbaileyAlthough it's used in production web servers and such in a number of places.09:11
jbaileyThere's also some people involved with each port that are notable:09:11
jbailey== LaMont Jones, the ber-porter ==09:11
jbaileyIf you've been involved with Debian at all, you've probably encountered LaMont.  He's only a little bit scary,09:11
jbaileyin the way that I recently handed him a set of PARISC code in hex, and he was able to tell me what the stuff meant.09:11
jbailey= amd64 =09:12
jbaileyamd64 was the next port that came along.  amd64 was introduced with Hoary, primarily by Tollef Fog Heen.  amd64 was unusual in09:12
jbaileythat from the beginning it was sponsored by Canonical with the intention of being fully supported.09:12
jbaileySince it is fully supported now, the support for it has grown much beyond just Tollef now.09:12
jbailey== Tollef Fog Heen ==09:13
jbaileyTollef is a member of Canonical's distro team.09:13
jbailey(I had something witty in here, but he knows where I live)09:13
jbailey= sparc... promoted! =09:13
jbaileyThe sparc port was the brainchild of fabbione.  He created this in his spare time on his equipment at home, building just main.09:14
jbaileyOne of the challenges of building a new architecture is the churn that we face during the development cycle.09:14
jbaileyI think there are generally 3 build boxes per architecture.09:14
jbaileyAnd all of those tend to be really fast boxes.09:14
jbaileySparc attracted some attention by others because it was one of the first to drop pre-ultrasparc support.  This meant that a number09:14
jbaileyof legacy items were dropped.  It also was one of the first ones to incorporate David Miller's work on the Niagara chipset.09:15
jbaileyFor Dapper, Sparc was promoted to being a primary architecture, is mirrored and has full commercial support by Canonical now.09:15
jbaileySo again, although Fabio did the initial port work for this, support for it has spread out a bit beyond him.09:15
jbaileyNot much, as commodity Sparc hardware can be a bit harder to get.09:15
jbaileySome universities have extras, though, that they don't mind students playing with.09:15
jbailey== Fabio Massimo di Nitto ==09:16
jbaileyFabionne is our Italian Stalion.09:16
jbailey= Community =09:16
jbaileySo, umm.  What's the point, you ask?09:16
jbaileyAnyone?09:16
ma1kel?09:16
jbaileyExcellent!09:16
sid?09:16
jbailey<jbailey-watcher> QUESTION: so what's the point?\09:16
=== MarkoKaa [n=MarkoKaa@a80-186-165-168.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbailey(sometimes you have to be your own plant)09:17
jbaileyThe point is that Ubuntu is a community distribution, of which Canonical happens to be the primary sponsor.  Under the guidance of the09:17
=== lara22 [n=lara22@ool-4357580e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyTechnical Board, the Community Council, and of course the SABDFL,  community members are free to promote their own ideas within Ubuntu09:17
jbaileyand have grown and changed Ubuntu in great ways.  The laptop testing program was largely community driven, usplash, and the xen kernels.09:17
jbaileyThe documentation team, artwork, translations are all community driven.09:17
jbaileyThe ports architectures are where community folks can get involved with their favourited hobby systems.  Most of the world is running09:17
jbaileyUbuntu on ia32-based systems.  But let's say you wanted to put Ubuntu on your Linksys or Palm Pilot rather than openwrt?  A port is one09:17
jbaileyof the places you could start.09:17
jbaileyEven in general, if we look back at what Linus promoted Linux as in the first place.09:18
jbaileyI don't have the quote handy, but wasn't it something like when men were men,09:18
jbaileysheep were men,09:18
jbaileyand device drivers were running scared?09:18
jbaileyYes, please do ask questions as we go.09:19
jbaileyAbout half of the talk so far is scripted, and have is typed.09:19
jbaileySo it's easy to inerrupt. =)09:19
jbailey<ma1kel> QUESTION: How do you get support if want/are starting a port for ubuntu?09:19
jbaileyI guess support is a tough question there.  I will cover how to actually get one started shortly.09:19
jbaileyIn fact.09:20
jbaileyHow 'bout now:09:20
jbailey= How to start one =09:20
jbaileyThe first thing you'll want is:09:20
jbailey== People ==09:20
jbailey * Kernel09:20
jbailey * Toolchain09:20
jbailey * X09:20
jbailey * Porters09:20
jbailey * Community09:20
jbaileyPart of the trick is that when building a port, you need to make sure you have the skills available to you to make it happen.09:21
jbaileySurprisingly, these are not as hard to come by as it seems.09:21
jbaileyOn the kernel side, upstream folks are often willing to back you up, and in many cases may be running Ubuntu on their primary machines.09:21
jbaileyWhen I say toolchain, I generally mean compiler, debugger, linker, and associated tools.09:22
jbaileyThis actually tends to be the area where it's harder to find people.09:22
jbaileyJust that GCC moves so quickly that it can be harder for community folks to keep up.09:22
jbaileyWe have a couple things going for us here.09:22
jbailey(ppc question queued up)09:22
jbaileyOne is, of course, the Debian support.09:23
jbaileyThe other is that if it actually builds, there's probably someone who cares about it.09:23
jbaileyThe trick is getting those people integrated into the Ubuntu community such that if there are specific things that need doing, that they get into Ubuntu's gcc, glibc, etc.09:23
jbaileyX of course depends on whether you need graphics at all.09:24
jbaileyThe porters are the folks who will go through and beat on softare until it actually works.09:24
jbaileyIf we take an example from hppa for instance.09:25
jbaileyEvery other architecture out there by default initialises it's locks to zero.09:25
jbaileySo, let's say you forget to do a pthread_init.09:25
jbaileyBut you've made the variable either a class member, or global.09:25
jbaileySo it's initialised to zero by default.09:25
jbaileyOn every other architecture, that will essentially be an initialised lock by accident.09:26
jbaileyOn hppa, 0 is locked, 1 is unlocked.09:26
jbaileySo you'll deadlock right at startup.09:26
jbaileyThat's a simple example, but it's the type of things that porters have to take care of.09:26
jbaileyNot only in the distro, but struggling to get the patches for these things accepted upstream.09:26
jbaileyMany upstreams take some convincing that just because it works for them doesn't mean it's a bug.09:27
jbaileyAnd ultimately, you want a reaonsably strong community.09:27
jbailey(I guess that was the upstream contigeant leaving?)09:27
jbailey=)09:27
jbaileyThe community are the people who are going to give you feedback.09:27
jbaileyIt's amazing how nice it is to see people using it, filing bugs and knowing that the work you're doing there is useful to someone.09:28
jbaileyThe next thing you'll want is equipment and/or emulators.09:28
jbaileyAlthough right now all of the ports are built on standard hardware.09:28
jbaileyI'd like to see us begin to look at using QEMU for small systems that will never really get into the multi-gigahertz range of speed.09:29
jbaileyWithout proof so far, I believe that a nice dual 4ghz machine running qemu ought to be able to out-perform your Nokia 770 for building things. =)09:29
jbaileyBuilding a distro from scratch isn't hard, but it does require patience.09:29
jbaileyAnd it's an undocumented process.09:30
jbaileyFor this, it's probably useful to enlist a core-dev.09:30
jbailey<ma1kel> QUESTION: What kind of systems are you thinking about?09:30
jbaileyarm, m68k, powerpc-embedded, mips come to mind.09:30
=== CPU_Fronz [n=Miranda@62-99-151-253.dynamic.adsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyarm in particular is pretty common in things like palm pilots, nokia handhelds, and telephones.09:31
jbaileym68k is surprisingly popular in medical devices.09:31
jbaileyWe tend to think of it as an old amiga chipset,  but the new coldfire systems look to be pretty nice.09:31
jbaileymips is the linksys equipment.09:31
jbaileyppc-embedded is your standard ppc stuff, but the calling conventions are optimised slightly for the embedded applications.09:31
jbaileyI can talk about ABIs and calling conventions outside of this talk if folks are interested.09:32
jbailey<sid> QUESTION: Sparc isn't that popular...comparatively to other architectures. How did Sparc get such good support from Canonical/Ubuntu, did Sun pay Canonical? If not, how does Canonical benefit?(where they wouldn't benefit from supporting another architecture)09:32
=== loeppel [n=motu@p549DA446.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyWhile I don't know the details of the business relationship, I think that Mark Shuttleworth and Jonathan Shwartz(sp?) standing on stage at the Sun One conference makes a pretty good story. =)09:32
amnesiahah09:33
jbailey<samgee> QUESTION: Don't you always need the real hardware because of possible bugs in qemu?09:33
jbaileyThis is a slightly disputed topic.  From processor rev to processor rev there will be bugs in the system, too.09:34
jbaileyThe challenge here is to decide when it's good enough.09:34
jbaileyAlmost all of the major chips: ia32, amd64, powerpc, sparc have had third party knock-offs at some point.09:34
jbaileyAnd even themselves have had a pile of revisions.09:35
jbaileyThe act of producing the code in gcc can push the emulator, but that's what a testsuite is for.09:35
jbaileyI generally believe that it works out fine, and doesn't tend to produce code that's so far off of the mark that you can't work around the odd emulation bug.09:36
jbaileyIf a qemu port is fairly new or underused, I would probably be inclined to do an initial run of, say, kernel, X, gcc, glibc bootstrapped on real hardware and on the emulator.09:36
jbaileyIf the resulting binaries have compatible assembler, then bugs that come up are more likely to cause crashes than to cause corruption.09:37
jbaileyMaybe toss MySQL and Mozilla in there for large C++ applications.09:37
jbaileyBut it's the type of things that I think can be verified to the "good enough" level relatively easily.09:37
jbaileyAnd hey, usually the QEMU porters would love bug reports too. ;)09:37
jbaileyMore on the how to start a port:09:38
jbaileyOnce you have the thing up and running and working with 5 or 10 of your closest friends, you'll need a place to publish this.09:38
jbaileyThis, I think, is the riskest step for a new port.09:38
jbaileyAs someone who's had his DSL slashdotted twice,09:38
=== ash211 [n=andrew@user-11210ts.dsl.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyonce for running a hurd-based webserver there.09:39
jbaileyonce for having  an supposedly non-disclosed Hurd archive there.09:39
jbailey*sigh*09:39
jbaileyYou need a place where you can put it that, if it *does* turn out to be popular won't keep you from putting it up.09:39
=== m4sch1ne [n=maschine@d045233.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyor from using your line.09:39
jbaileyFor those curious: No, slashdot doesn't tell the admins of a site before they get posted.09:40
jbailey<samgee> QUESTION: Can it be a problem that an emulator is slower than the real thing09:40
jbaileyIf you can get Hardware that's a decent speed, you don't need the emulator.09:40
jbaileyBut if you're targetting a linksys or a palm pilot, chances are that's the commodity hardware that you're going to have around.09:40
jbaileySure, you can buy a desktop machine that's a 1.1 ghz ARM system.09:41
jbaileyBut last I checked they were about three times the price of a desktop.09:41
jbaileyI think that ia32 machines are now in the ~4ghz range?09:41
jbaileyI don't know where current amd64 / em32t machines are.09:41
jbaileyBut I'd be surprised if they weren't there too.09:41
jbaileyIf your emulator is faster than a 1:10 penalty, you've won with comodity hardware.09:42
jbaileyOr even better, you could buy three of them.09:42
jbaileyOr dig up spares at your friend's house.09:42
jbaileyQUESTION: a bit off-topic, is there anyone working on an ubuntu for mobile phones?09:42
jbailey(ma1kel)09:42
jbaileyI don't know of one off hand, but there's been interest in an Embedded Ubuntu target for some time.09:42
jbaileyPart of the problem is defining "Embedded"09:43
jbaileyEmbedded to one person means wearable computing.09:43
jbaileyUltra-low power, usually an 8 bit processor that gives off no heat and runs on a watch battery.09:43
jbaileyEmbedded to another person can mean an appliance or such that sits in 1u rack, or inside a fridge.09:43
=== barry [n=barry@216-15-33-253.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.static.cable.rcn.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== linuxuser1202 [n=defaultu@66.239.82.190] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbailey(Off-topic, I saw a $15000 fridge when I was looking for one that had a full web browser on the inside of it.  Phear)09:44
jbaileyTo do a mobile phone, you'd have to decide what you were targetting.09:44
jbaileyThings like the Motoral A780 have a half to them that is Linux, but that doesn't control the GSM side.09:44
jbaileyI suspect Federal regulators in the US and Canada (and whatever they call them in Europe) would think really poorly of people being able to do all the control of the radio antennae in free software.09:45
jbaileyWehave that problem now with wireless cards already in Linux.09:45
jbailey<sid> QUESTION: What is the relationship like between Debian GNU/Linux and Ubuntu Linux-based operating system with regards to PORTs, ie if someone wants Ubuntu on their arm device(ma1kel's cellphone), should they start porting Ubuntu..or just use Debian since their arm branch is already active and kicking?09:45
jbaileyIt depends here on what you want.09:46
=== lumprich [n=lumprich@p54B93624.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyThe Sparc port wasn't really bootstrapped so much from the Debian one, although they share many things back and forth.09:46
=== lumprich [n=lumprich@p54B93624.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyUltiamtely, you're going to win with the Debian stuff, because those pieces are already incorpoated into glibc, toolchain, kernel and installer.09:46
jbaileyHowever, with hppa, we dropped linuxthreads before they did.  There's an ABI break there, so Debian hppa and Ubuntu hppa aren't binary compatible.09:47
jbailey(This will fix itself after Etch releases and Debian will take the hit then)09:47
jbaileyBut with Arm, for instance, you might decide that you want to go with EABI.09:47
jbaileyOr with MIPS to go with n64 or..09:47
jbaileynubi?09:47
jbaileyI can't remember all of the 6 or so ABIs that MIPS has as an option.09:48
jbaileyIn which case, the existing Debian stuff isn't going to help you at all.09:48
jbaileyI think it's often worth looking at a new port as really a time where you can say "How can we do this different, or not encumber ourselves with things we had to go through the pain of learning before"09:48
jbaileyI see we're close to the end, so probably best to dive in to PPC in general.09:49
jbaileyEarlier on:09:49
jbailey<sid> QUESTION: Is PowerPC no longer and official build for Ubuntu?09:49
jbailey<ma1kel> QUESTION: Ubuntu and PS3?09:49
jbaileyAt this time, ppc is still an official build for Ubuntu.09:49
jbaileyA spec was raised at the Ubuntu Development summit in Mountain View, California with the proposal to drop support for the PowerPC architecture.09:50
jbaileyThat is to say, move it to being a community supported architecture.09:50
jbaileyThis is based on a few things:09:50
jbailey1) Low community participation in powerpc.09:50
jbailey - Few install reports during the development cycle.09:50
jbailey - Few people jumping up to look at bugs on the port, such as the R300 crashes.09:51
jbailey2) Low download rates.09:51
jbailey - I don't have the numbers handy, but as a total percentage of people downloading it, ppc has fallen to half what it was a year ago.09:51
jbailey3) Difficulty in obtaining new hardware.09:51
jbailey - PowerPC is certainly a strong and viable architecture, but with Apple not producing desktop boxes anymore, there will be fewer systems out there in developers hands.09:52
jbailey - New embedded systems tend to be mips and arm, rather than ppc.  Unless you happen to be porting to a Cisco Router. =)09:53
jbaileyThe spec isn't finalised, and is sort of in a limbo stage right now.09:53
jbaileyI don't know off hand which way the decision will go.09:53
jbaileyBut the Sony Play Station 3 uses a variant of the Ppc chip known as the Cell processor.09:53
jbaileyFor those who don't know, the cell processor is amazing pile of crack just waiting to be smoked.09:53
jbaileyYou have a ppc main chip, and I think 8 DSPs on board.09:54
jbaileySo the main chip can copy things into private address space for the DSPs to deal with and return values.09:54
jbaileyIt's an interesting hack in that the DSPs don't speak powerpc assmebly.09:54
jbaileyAnd the DSPs also don't have access to main ram, or the cache.09:54
jbaileyAnything going to them has to be fed in explicitely and written to work there.09:54
jbaileySo that's a possibility.09:55
jbaileyPS3 systems are *expensive* and also not a sure thing.09:55
jbaileyI know that they're shipping now, but it's not clear how a Linux community is going to take to them.09:56
=== gismo [n=Kacpeur@p548CB11E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyAt this point, I haven't seen anyone saying "I want to port Ubuntu to this thing"09:56
=== gismo is now known as gismo16
jbaileyI suspect the people willing to wait in line for it weren't waiting so that they could format it and not play their games, y'know what I mean? =)09:56
jbaileythat said, what do I think of ppc as a community arch?09:56
jbaileyI think that it will certainly fair well for at least the short term if it goes that way.09:57
jbaileyI still do much of the heavy lifting on glibc, for instance, and my main system is a ppc box.09:57
jbaileyI know that several of the core-devs still are using their PPC laptops.09:57
jbaileyBut inevitably, these will all get replaced with newer and faster systems over the next few years.09:57
jbaileySo if manufacturers don't produce something that devs want to use as their primary system, usage will eventually dwindle.09:58
jbailey<sid> QUESTION: Which is more popular with regards to downloads and participation(hacking) on Ubuntu sparc or powerpc?09:58
jbaileyNo idea, sorry.  The numbers I saw were only ppc against the rest of the archive.09:58
=== bw_hb [i=root@L6131.l.strato-dslnet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyQuickly, the last three steps in becoming a port:09:59
jbaileyOnce you have a public archive, you need to start talking to the tech board.09:59
jbaileySome of it, is that you'll want to start using malone for bug tracking.09:59
=== ecuador [n=ecuador@edb38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyAnd eventually move towards using Launchpad for your buildds.09:59
jbaileyThat way your packages and versions will be reported correctly in Soyuz.10:00
jbaileyLaunchpad is currently not completely setup for dealing with architectures hosted outside of the CAnonical data centre.10:00
jbaileyBut it's certainly in the model.10:00
jbaileySo how it works at that point may vary by the time you get there.10:00
jbailey<ma1kel> QUESTION: Which architectures do you think will grow more popular and what is Ubuntu currently ported to? (architectures)10:00
jbaileyCurrently ported to: i486 (called i386), amd64 (includes em64t), ultrasparc (called sparc, includes ultra3, and the niagara chipsets), itanium2 (called ia64), powerpc (includes ppc64), and hppa10:02
jbaileyI'd like to see the i386 distro move to be i686 and up, in order to breath a bit more life and speed into it, but I think that we'll start to see the decline of that in the next 3 years.10:02
jbaileyAt this point, there isn't alot of good reason for Intel or AMD to invest new technology into building those, and I can see them pushing the amd64 systems onto their smaller fabs.10:03
jbaileyamd64 is definetly on it's way up.10:03
jbaileyI'm not clear where Sparc will go.10:03
=== thiebaude [n=thiebaud@68-119-176-236.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyI've been surprised by sparc.  Where everyone else has become either high-end data centre (alpha and hppa get swallowed by ia64, they drop workstations)10:04
jbaileyor become smaller (mips, arm, m68k, classic i386 chips)10:04
jbaileySparc and ppc have managed to stay midrange.10:04
jbaileyppc took a blow because of apple dropping them, but along comes the ps310:04
jbaileysparc stands in it's own class, though.10:04
jbailey(I assume if there's another talk, someone will tell me?10:05
jbailey)10:05
sidThere is nothing else10:05
=== mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileySun produces Sparc workstations, servers, etc. and still manges to sell a pile of them.10:05
jbaileyI believe there's someone even still producing Sparc laptops.10:05
jbailey(They were for the military)10:05
ma1keljbailey there arent any other talks planned10:05
samgeegotta go, thanks jbailey10:06
jbaileyIt's not a position I can see them staying in forever, but I don't know if they have something planned where someone will take them and use them in a game console,10:06
jbaileyor if you'll suddently see them enter into the embedded space.10:06
=== samgee [n=samgee@187.82-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Ik]
jbaileyThe i386 legacy has got to go at some point, and I don't know how the break will be made.10:06
jbaileyIntel wasn't succesful with the Itanium, and doesn't seem to be trying anymore.10:07
=== mikemcc [n=mikemcc@bb-66-63-98-98.gwi.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyAnd if they can't do it with *their* resources...10:07
jbailey<LKRaider> QUESTION: other than porting the kernel and toolchain, is it not expected that all the packages on main work with a port?10:07
jbaileySort of. =)10:07
jbaileyWhere you'll often see complications is either:10:07
jbailey1) Poorly written code.10:07
jbailey2) Multimedia applications with processor-specific hacks.10:07
jbaileyI've covered #1 above.10:08
jbailey#2 takes a moment to think about.10:08
jbaileyI pick on multimedia, but it can also be things like Virtual Machines.10:08
jbaileyOn of the things, for instance, was when I did some porting work on the Boehm Garbage collector for Sparc.10:08
jbaileyAt the time, Sparc didn't have an asm label to help point to the top of the data segment.10:09
jbaileySo other tricks had to be used.10:09
jbaileyJakub Jelinek from RedHat solved that problem by adding the pointer, but otherwise different hacks had to be used.10:09
jbaileySo there was a bunchf of generally untested fallback code that only got used on Sparc.10:09
jbaileyYou'll see the same in mplayer.10:09
jbaileyThe traditional C routines tend to not be fast enough because C is too non-specific to render the routines with the right constraints into asm.10:10
jbaileySo you'll see a smattering of asm to do the transforms.10:10
jbailey<ma1kel> Question: Can I see Ubuntu on my toothbrush anywhere soon in the future? :)10:10
jbaileyErr...10:10
jbailey<linuxboy_> QUESTION : What are the difference between i386 and i486 ? instructions ?10:11
jbaileyGiYF for the full answer, of course, but I'm assuming the question comes from "why is our i386 distribution really i486?"10:11
jbaileyIn that particular case, it comes from i486 not containing the atomic insturctions needed to make multiprocessing work.10:12
linuxboy_yeah and in comparison with i686 .......10:12
=== _zerlinna [n=Zerlinna@C2b78.c.strato-dslnet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileySo in particular, there's two instructions: "test and set" and "Compare and exchange", which are used to make syncrhonisation work.10:13
jbaileyTest and set, says to look at an instruction in memory, see if it's a particular value and change it.10:14
jbaileyIf you do that in a tradition C fashion:10:14
jbaileyif (foo) {10:14
=== linuxuser1202 [n=defaultu@66.239.82.190] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
jbailey  foo = 1;10:14
jbailey}10:14
jbaileyThen you have the small problem that between the test and the setting, the other process could've changed the value of foo.10:14
jbaileytest&set is a magic instruction that promises that this all happens in one step.10:15
jbaileyi686 then added superpages,10:15
jbaileySo rather than 4k pages, I think you can get 4megs I think?10:15
jbaileyI don't do alot of direct ASM work.10:15
jbaileyi686 optionally added an instruction called CMOV10:16
jbaileyThe optionally is the part that kills us here.10:16
jbaileyWhen writing the specs, intel said that you didn't need to include some instructions that would be hard to build in.10:16
jbaileySo when via made a knockoff, they didn't include it.10:16
jbaileyFor CMOV details, see: http://www.x86.org/secrets/opcodes/cmov.htm10:16
jbailey<sid> jbailey-watcher: To add to linuxboy_'s question 386/486/586/686...all those packages seem to work on my system...not sure what the differences are between them.(which kernel/packages should one chose when there are 386/486/586/686 stuff listed)10:17
jbailey(Grouping quesitons, I know I missed one)10:17
jbaileyThe trick with the different kernels is that the advantage of running an optimised application is usually very small outside of the multimedia space.10:17
jbaileySure, if you're doing video, you want mmx, or ppc970 specific instructions.10:18
jbailey(This is, incidentally, which other processors don't need to play the megahertz race so much as Intel does.  the ia32 chipset really isn't very well done.  Even Intel admits that, that's why the itanium exists)10:18
jbaileyIn your kernel, which is always running, flipping things around, dealing with device drivers, devices, video, etc. you can see some neat advantages to how it handles everything when it can assume a higher processor level.10:19
jbaileyIt's also worth noting that we install the libc6-i686 package by default.10:19
=== b4ck3r [n=cbarbosa@200.80.164.57] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileySo your code C library, math functions and string functions are all optimised.10:20
jbaileyThat usually makes all the difference you need in an application if you're not particularily intensive with video/memory/etc.10:20
jbailey<ma1kel> QUESTION: You said you guys have a problem with wireless cards, do you think that there are gonna be the same sort of problems with other things in the future?10:20
jbaileyYup.  The problem is that as soon as you connect to the world outside of yourself, you have to play by other people's rules.10:21
jbaileyThe question is the risk of what happens if you accidentally get it wrong.10:21
jbaileyIf you spew crap onto the Internet, your ISP has to filter it or you take the world out.10:21
jbaileyLuckily, we had the Internet before the rest of the world, so we win. =)10:21
jbaileyBut with wireless devices, you risk blocking out emergency frequencies, or air traffic control and the like.10:22
jbaileySo from a pure safety point of view, regulators are going to want to make that as closed as possible.10:22
jbaileySo once we get Linux into cars, and take drivers out of them.10:22
jbailey(something that I see as inevitable, in both cases)10:23
jbaileyWill they let us hack on the software that goes in?10:23
jbaileyI think it's unlikely.10:23
jbaileyBut how do we keep that from happening?10:23
jbaileyAdvocacy, and getting it right the first time.10:23
jbaileyIf we can be the first players in the market.10:23
jbaileyIf we can push the envelope to show that our software is actually *safer*10:23
jbaileyBecause there's no hidden terrorist plots in there.10:23
jbaileyNothing to suddenly point all of the cars full-speed towards Niagara falls.10:24
jbaileyThat in fact trusting the community is a better option than not.10:24
jbaileyI'd like to finish up soon, did I miss any questions?10:24
jbaileyThen I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone for participating in Ubuntu Open Wekk.10:25
jbaileyI've heard really positive reports from the other people leading sessions.10:25
jbaileyIf you have any further questions for me, I can be reached at jbailey@ubuntu.com10:25
jbaileyOh!  One more questions. =)10:26
jbailey<sid> QUESTION jbailey-watcher: What is your favorite low power architecture(embeded?), what is your favorite high power architecture(for a desktop)? Would you chose a different one for a server? What is your favorite to hack on? Should we support Sparc since they did an awesome thing and made most of their CPU specifications *GPL?10:26
jbaileyLemme start with the Sparc question first.10:26
jbaileyI think Sun deserves all of our support right now.10:26
jbaileyAs a company they're openning up to the community in incredible ways, between Java, embracing Linux, and the history they have.10:27
=== b4ck3r [n=cbarbosa@200.80.164.57] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
jbaileyI didn't know that their process specs were GPLd, but they've traditionally submitted their specs to the IEEE, anyway.10:27
jbaileyIf they didn't invent openfirmware, they certainly embraced it, which is also nice.10:27
jbaileyI mentioned before that I don't know where they'll go.10:27
jbaileyIt's a bit of a mistery to me what their plans are.10:28
jbaileyAs a service company, they do an excellent job.10:28
jbaileyAs a fully integrated system, they provided from the edge to the core in some really seemless ways.10:28
jbaileySo by openning their systems up under GPL, they're really given us a treasure chest.10:28
jbaileySo I hope that as a company they find their way to continued success.10:29
jbaileyMy favourite systems, hmm..10:29
jbaileyI think I fell in love with ARM with the netwinder.10:29
jbaileyIf nothing else because it was *so* *cute*.10:29
jbaileyBut in general, when I'm looking for systems to hack on, I'm usually looking for a challenge.10:30
jbaileyAs a hobbiest, I can't hope to keep up with the professionals.10:30
jbaileyAnd now that ARM has taken off (ARM, StrongARM, Xscale), there are a pile of people hacking on it professionally.10:30
jbaileySince I'm interested in low-level pieces, it means that I really can't keep up with development and contribute meaningfully to it.10:31
jbaileySo if I were to start hacking on something myself, I would probably dig out a MIPS system.10:31
=== arualavi [n=qwerty@198.Red-83-36-106.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyHowever, if I were to do an Ubuntu ports, I 'd probably start with ARM.10:31
jbaileyExplcitely because the upstream work is largely done.10:31
jbaileyFor favourite high powered architecture, I like the Itaniums.10:31
jbaileyI have one of the last models of ia64 that was made by HP10:32
jbailey(not at my house, please don't break in here.  It's *noisy*.  I keep those things at data centres)10:32
jbaileyWhen Apple made their announcement that they were moving to an Intel chip, I had really hoped it was to the Itanium.10:32
jbaileyI had hoped that it meant that Intel had finally sorted out their production and heat problems and were able to push this thing out into laptops.10:32
jbaileyFor ia64 to get popular, you'd need to convince some sort of platform shift like that.10:33
jbaileyA captive market willing to take on something interesting, but for which you can guarantee that software would get written.10:33
jbaileyI like it because they've taken risks with the design of the chip that you just don't see outside of academia.10:33
jbaileyThey thought large, they were willing to make it big.10:33
jbaileyThey were willing to say "This will not be in your toothbrush anytime soon"10:34
jbaileyAnd in reality, ia64s aren't performing anywhere near their capabilities in Linux because as yet, we haven't figured out how to teach the compilers to do the work yet.10:34
jbaileyBut that will come.10:34
jbaileyBut again, I don't hack much on ia64 for the same reason I wouldn't really hack on Arm.10:35
jbaileyToo big, too commerical for me to follow along.10:35
jbaileyI have trouble tracking the development -- I don't have the energy to contribute to it.10:35
jbaileySo lately I've been hacking on hppa.10:35
jbaileyIt's a great community of people.10:35
jbaileyIt's a neat architecture, and still leaves me lots of room to learn.10:35
jbaileyAnd frankly if I take on a task, I can complete it at the speed I want.10:35
jbaileyIn general, the architecture is good enough that it works.10:35
jbaileySo anything people want to cut their teeth on is probably something that noone else is touching.10:36
jbaileyIt's a neat space to be in.10:36
jbaileyQUESTION Comparing Sparc and Itanium...what are the restrictions legally? As far as making an emulator say..or forking and making your own chip(hypothetically, I imagine it costs milllions of dollars) you can fork Sparc(there is a company that is doing that, since it's GPL'd. But can you do the same with Itanium? what are big legal differences between Itanium and Sparc..do you have more freedom with Sparc(as far as ""10:36
jbaileytrusted computing"", or10:36
jbailey<sid> since it's GPL'd. But can you do the same with Itanium? what are big legal differences between Itanium and Sparc..do you have more freedom with Sparc(as far as ""trusted computing"", or what I call treacherous computing since you can just control your chip fully with sparc.10:36
jbailey (if it was cutoff)10:36
jbaileyAs I am not a member of the Bar in Canada, I cannot give you a legal opinion.10:37
jbaileyBut I can tell you a bit about how I understand the law.10:37
=== stalefries [n=stalefri@pool-71-113-25-221.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyAs there's a published written specification, I believe that you can produce an implementation from that specification without restriction, subject to patent encumberances and copyright restrictions on your target code.10:38
jbaileyCopyright is easy if you work directly from the published document.10:38
jbaileyPatents is a whole other area of suckage, for which I will refer you to groklaw. +)10:38
jbaileyItanium is a fabulously complicated architecture.10:39
jbaileyDoing a qemu port for it would be an interesting challenge.10:39
jbaileyI suspect that you'd find yourself extended qemu's internals quite a bit to accomidate it.10:39
jbailey<sid> QUESTION: What do you think about the movement of ""trusted computing"" and the involvement of the MPAA/RIAA and Microsoft wanting to control users, do you think they will suceed? Does this scare you? Any technology can be used for good or evil, what good/evil do you see in some of these technologies like a TPM module10:39
jbaileyOy.10:40
jbaileyTC is an interesting challenge.10:40
jbaileyIf you look at CayoteOS, they've taken the model that you can use the TC chips in Computers to make sure that your user session isn't snoopable by the admin.10:40
jbaileySo a true power-to-the-people type of thing.10:41
jbaileyI don't know how much traction that will get with laws like Sarbanes-Oaxley in the US.10:41
=== Zububwa [n=newmanc@cpe-66-69-86-45.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyI don't know the right space for us to go with that.10:41
jbaileyI'd like to see users choose artists who will provide them what they want without restrictions.10:42
sidWell they're talking about weaking Sox compliance now, or even abolishing it. Since companies are starting to list with Tokyo or London markets..and not even bother listing on wallstreet.10:42
sidAlthough the democrats will probably take a few years to weaken sarbannes oxley since they have so much on their plate now.10:42
jbaileyBut I refer you to an article in the current Scientific American where they talk about how in political science, how people feel is starting to play a more important role than raw facts.10:42
jbaileyBut I think this question marks us as now far enough off topic, that I'll call this officially closed. =)10:43
sidthanks a lot for the information and help jbailey. I appreciate you answering all the questions for myself and everyone else.10:43
=== ivan_ [n=chatzill@c-69-249-156-158.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
ma1kelThanks.10:44
jbaileysid: Glad to. =)10:44
sidjbailey: You know about open graphics project and how they're going to make a graphics chip that the whole specification is GPL'd and it will basically be a community designed chipset..you think the same thing is feasible/possible with a cpu?10:44
ma1kelDoes anyone know if the logs of the sessions are gonna be uploaded somewhere, I would love to see the logs of some other sessions.10:45
sidma1kel: yea someone is definitely doing something with the logs from what I can tell. They're going up somewhere.10:45
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileysid: Sure, it's something almost every Comp.Eng student does.10:45
jbaileysid: The problem with any open hardware platform is getting fab time to produce one after.10:45
ma1kelah, ill keep an eye out on planetubuntu10:46
jbaileyma1kel: The logs are all at the place in the topic, I think they just haven't been sliced out yet.10:46
jbaileysid: I haven't followed the open graphics stuff too closely, as I'm not really a hardware geek.10:46
ma1kelhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs10:46
ma1kelthanks10:47
jbaileySo the question in my mind is always, "So how would I get one"10:47
jbailey"And what would I do with it then"10:47
jbaileyWhat I'm *more* interested in is looking at that fridge, and seeing an Ubuntu bootsplash on it when it comes up.10:47
jbaileyWe're surrounded by processing power.10:47
=== poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
jbaileyWhy not hack all of it?10:47
=== DerXero [n=patrick@dslb-082-083-136-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== MartinY [n=MartinY@host86-134-8-212.range86-134.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Schnorgi [n=peter@dslb-084-056-053-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
ma1kellol10:49
ma1kel10:23jbaileyBecause there's no hidden terrorist plots in there.10:51
ma1kelthats the last log on the irclogs archive10:51
linuxboy_ok thanks a lot !!!10:53
jbaileyma1kel: It's probably just a sync delay or something.10:54
jbaileyOtherwise I have it in my logs and can give it to them.10:54
ma1kelYea.10:54
ma1kelLets see what happens if I submit it as an item to digg10:56
=== EDVINAS__ [i=usr960@c1.edrana.lt] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Schnorgi [n=peter@dslb-084-056-053-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Kopete]
=== DrKenobi [n=ruizluqu@32-133-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== DrKenobi [n=ruizluqu@32-133-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== linuxboy_ [n=linuxboy@AFontenayssB-152-1-16-47.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== DrKenobi [n=ruizluqu@32-133-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== highvoltage [n=jonathan@196.1.61.16] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== sid [n=unstable@tor/regular/sid] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
ma1kelhttp://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_OpenWeek_session_logs11:12
somerville32:)11:13
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== fraiddo [n=fred@AAmiens-151-1-66-218.w86-192.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== decan [i=0ac80418@gateway/web/cgi-irc/gluc.unicauca.edu.co/x-7ccab6cbd658fdd3] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
decan..11:21
=== DrKenobi [n=ruizluqu@32-133-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== apokryphos- [n=apokryph@87-194-86-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Faramir [n=faramir@dD5761179.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Chris7mas [n=floydian@89.39.4.39] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== ranf [n=ralfm@dslb-084-058-168-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Ex-Chat"]
=== DrKenobi [n=DrKenobi@32-133-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Sikavica [n=andon_si@82.114.78.10] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== Xnthus [n=jwhipple@rrcs-70-61-189-239.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== Xnthus [n=jwhipple@rrcs-70-61-189-239.central.biz.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== DrKenobi [n=DrKenobi@32-133-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
ma1kelhttp://www.digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_OpenWeek_session_logs11:46
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o apokryphos] by ChanServ
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:apokryphos] : Ubuntu week has now finished
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o apokryphos] by apokryphos
LKRaiderusing htmlopt I could reduce the 2,5 mb file to 2mb11:51
=== furesta [n=furesta@adsl-ull-27-224.42-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
LKRaider*htmloptim11:52
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o apokryphos] by ChanServ
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-classroom:apokryphos] : Ubuntu week has now finished - thanks , everyone! | Transcripts and logs are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts and http://www.tonyyarusso.is-a-geek.com/irclogs/openweek/
=== mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o apokryphos] by apokryphos
=== somerville32 [n=somervil@fctnnbsc15w-156034075054.nb.aliant.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]
=== rubadub [n=rubadub@adsl-68-73-122-91.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== furesta [n=furesta@adsl-ull-27-224.42-151.net24.it] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== LKRaider [n=LKRaider@200.247.157.198] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Arakiri]
=== artoj [i=ajonsson@kapsi.fi] has left #ubuntu-classroom []
=== luke86 [n=luke86@chello212017086167.5.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== TheGateKeeper [n=m@82-36-112-224.cable.ubr03.king.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom
=== tsmithe [n=bip@82-70-109-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Help]
=== TheGateKeeper [n=m@82-36-112-224.cable.ubr03.king.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"]

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!