[12:13] <Simon80> yeah, exactly
[12:14] <theCore> minghua, do you use one repository for each package?
[12:15] <elektranox> siretart / ajmitch - can you re-sync the list, please?
[12:24] <minghua> theCore: Not now.  But that was not decided by me.  If I use my own repository, then yes, I would use one repo for each package.
[12:24] <theCore> minghua, thanks
[12:25] <theCore> I think I will try bzr and svn, then I will which work better for me
[12:32] <theCore> finally, I found a program to package 
[12:33] <theCore> usually, there's always a debian guy who taken all the fun
[12:33] <theCore> :)
[12:34] <jdong> theCore: package tovid while you're at it :)
[12:34] <jdong> theCore: the author really wants a proper debian package
[12:34] <theCore> jdong, oh thanks, I will look at it
[12:35] <jdong> theCore: I've made a pretty terrible initial-attempt at http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/tovid
[12:36] <jdong> theCore: it isn't anywhere near Debian-compliance, but it already beats checkinstalling... help the guy out :)
[12:36] <theCore> hehe 
[01:01] <Simon80> anyone into stepmania? anyone into reviewing and also into stepmania?
[01:02] <somerville32> Is stepmania better then pydance?
[01:12] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, i'll test it, just link me to sources
[01:13] <ryanakca> Hye Cyllene
[01:13] <Cyllene> Hey everyone. How could one apply to be a maintainer?
[01:13] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, i'll test it, just link me to sources
[01:13] <Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/
[01:13] <Simon80> two packages
[01:14] <somerville32> How do I use diff again (ie. what are the flags I need to use)? :P
[01:14] <minghua> Cyllene: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
[01:14] <geser> somerville32:  -Nur
[01:14] <DarkMageZ> no changes to the orig.tar.gz cept the name change?
[01:15] <somerville32> And how do I generate one between two directories?
[01:15] <Simon80> hmm?
[01:15] <Simon80> oh, no
[01:15] <Simon80> check the diff
[01:15] <geser> -r is recursive
[01:15] <geser> somerville32: diff -Nur dir1 dir2
[01:15] <somerville32> Thanks a bunch :)
[01:17] <somerville32> geser: That doesn't seem to work
[01:17] <Cyllene> Whoa, ryanakca. That's a lot of work. :/
[01:17] <somerville32> Oh
[01:17] <somerville32> Dof
[01:17] <somerville32> my fault
[01:18] <somerville32> Geser: I'm preparing a patch to fix a bug so what I'm doing is tacking the revision before the fix and the revision that fixed and creating a patch to apply to the package. Is this the right track?
[01:18] <somerville32> s/tacking/taking
[01:19] <ryanakca> Cyllene: what is? packaging?
[01:19] <geser> yes
[01:20] <Cyllene> ryanakca: No, becoming a member is. :p
[01:20] <Simon80> darkmagez: are you doing ok with it?
[01:20] <minghua> Cyllene: if you just want to maintain one package, you can just do your work and ask somebody here to upload it for you
[01:20] <Cyllene> hmm
[01:20] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, i'm reading it now :)
[01:21] <Simon80> the diff?
[01:21] <somerville32> geser: Should the earlier revision be the first argument and the next revision the second argument?
[01:21] <Simon80> btw, if you want binaries, I can link you to that too
[01:22] <geser> somerville32: diff -Nur old_version new_version
[01:22] <ryanakca> Cyllene: yeah... that's what I do :)
[01:22] <somerville32> geser: And to apply, I would do patch -Nur --dry-run ../patch.diff ?
[01:23] <somerville32> (for a dry run)
[01:23] <Cyllene> Cool.
[01:23] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, it looks good. i'm building it now
[01:23] <Cyllene> And if you maintain a few packages for a while, you can work your way up to membership maybe. :)
[01:23] <Simon80> cool
[01:23] <Simon80> like I said, I have edgy i386 binaries published... I should at least
[01:24] <geser> somerville32: patch -p1 --dry-run < ../patch.diff
[01:24] <minghua> Cyllene: exactly.
[01:24] <geser> in the old_version dir
[01:25] <somerville32> geser: I didn't get any errors from the dryn run so it is safe to apply, right? :)
[01:25] <Simon80> I suppose you shouuldn't trust me, and build it yourself, but that takes time :D
[01:26] <geser> somerville32: yes
[01:26] <Cyllene> ryanakca: What packages do you maintain?
[01:27] <ryanakca> Cyllene: just a sec
[01:28] <ryanakca> Cyllene: https://launchpad.net/people/ryanakca/+packages
[01:29] <somerville32> geser: The current package version is 0.2.2-2ubuntu5. Should the new package be 0.2.2-2ubuntu6 or 0.2.2-2ubuntu5.1?
[01:29] <geser> for which release?
[01:29] <geser> for feisty it would be 0.2.2-2ubuntu6
[01:30] <somerville32> dapper
[01:30] <somerville32> I'm doing an SRU
[01:30] <geser> then 0.2.2-2ubuntu5.1
[01:30] <somerville32> k
[01:30] <somerville32> :] 
[01:33] <jdong> 2ubuntu5.0.6.10-1? 
[01:33] <jdong> (j/k) :D
[01:34] <geser> would this make 2ubuntu5.0.6.10 part of the version and -1 the revision?
[01:35] <jdong> sure let's go with that :)
[01:37] <somerville32> This packaging thing is getting easier with more practise <g>
[01:40] <somerville32> Can someone review?: http://pastebin.ca/265101
[01:43] <geser> looks ok to me
[01:43] <geser> I would also add a # before the bug numbers
[01:44] <somerville32> k
[01:44] <somerville32> :] 
[01:46] <geser> but it' more of a personal taste
[01:56] <theCore> I'm realizing that using svn would only add an overhead to my packaging tasks
[01:59] <jdong> I only version packaging info selectively...
[01:59] <jdong> and svn adds as much overhead as you can ask for :)
[01:59] <somerville32> What do I do if I get an error when signing the package?
[01:59] <jdong> ok, I take that back
[01:59] <jdong> s/svn/CVS
[01:59] <theCore> I wonder when HCT will be ready 
[01:59] <somerville32> I think I need to use a flag to specify the key by id
[01:59] <somerville32> Whats the flag?
[01:59] <theCore> somerville32, -k
[02:00] <jdong> theCore: cat hurd-joke | sed -e 's/hurd/HCT/g'
[02:00] <theCore> hehe
[02:03] <theCore> I think I will try bzr-builddeb
[02:03] <somerville32> a debdiff is a patch, right?
[02:03] <jdong> yeah, pretty much
[02:04] <somerville32> So I would check the checkmark in the lp post comment section, right?
[02:06] <jdong> I don't know
[02:06] <jdong> I know I don't
[02:06] <somerville32> What does it do anyhow?
[02:07] <minghua> theCore: I only put debian/ dir into SVN
[02:07] <theCore> minghua, hmm, interesting
[02:08] <minghua> somerville32: I label debdiff as a patch. :-)  I don't think that label is important, though
[02:09] <theCore> personally, I would like to separate the *.orig.tar.gz into a tarballs/ directory and put my builds inside build-area/ 
[02:11] <minghua> that sounds a very good idea, but probably need some smart scripts to automate the work
[02:11] <minghua> especially if you have contents in .diff.gz that is out of debian/ dir
[02:11] <theCore> that what I was thinking doing
[02:11] <minghua> I know some maintainers/teams do things that way, though
[02:12] <minghua> Debian's vim team, for example
[02:12] <minghua> but they use a unusual .orig.tar.gz structure
[02:12] <minghua> a tarball-and-patch-in-orig.tar.gz one
[02:12] <theCore> oh, I see
[02:12] <somerville32> I hate building packages
[02:12] <somerville32> It takes forever :/
[02:13] <theCore> hehe
[02:15] <theCore> the other nice thing I was thinking is having a build daemon to make package from the fresh upstream source. 
[02:15] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, stepmania claims that there are no songs installed. i've got stepmania & stepmania data installed. no default songs?
[02:16] <theCore> but, I imagine it would be quite hard to maintain
[02:17] <theCore> however, it would be very useful
[02:33] <somerville32> Anyone here on dapper 64bit?
[02:34] <superm1> DarkMageZ, typically there are no default songs for stepmania
[02:35] <DarkMageZ> yeah, i just noticed that, i always had someone set stepmania up for me
[02:43] <fernando> hi all
[02:43] <Cyllene> Hi.
[02:45] <Simon80> darkmagez: nope, sorry
[02:46] <Simon80> http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/Download_Songs
[02:46] <Simon80> I get mine from DDRUK, if you want DDR songs... but that's likely copyright infringement
[02:47] <Simon80> so that's all I'm gonna say about that here
[02:48] <plerk> hey, anyone of you know if imbrandon is around?
[02:48] <Simon80> but at stepmania.com, the developers are making efforts to get people to submit original songs.  The reason one would want DDR songs is so that they can practice those at home, and then know them already when they hit an arcade machine
[02:51] <Cyllene> hmm
[02:52] <Cyllene> With gpg, I have two keys, a main key (rsa) and a subkey (rsa). Which one do I send to the ubuntu keyserver?
[02:52] <Cyllene> One is used for encryption and the other for signing.
[02:52] <Cyllene> I want to say the one for encryption, but you would think that an RSA key has two parts, a public and private part.
[02:58] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, ok it works and the packaging looks good to me.
[02:58] <Simon80> thanks
[02:59] <Simon80> but you can't review it, right?
[02:59] <Simon80> did you get any songs, btw?
[03:01] <DarkMageZ> Simon80, i completed a dance with a song i found on the net and tried an alternative ui. unfortunantly no i can't review.
[03:04] <Simon80> hehe, well thanks
[03:10] <elektranox> still no admin online?
[03:11] <Simon80> send an email to that address and wait a day
[03:11] <Simon80> I did that on friday morning
[03:11] <Simon80> got synced in the afternoon
[03:11] <elektranox> k
[03:26] <plerk> hey! either of u seen imbrandon around?
[03:26] <theCore> Cyllene, you always send the public part. Keep the private part well-guarded
[03:31] <Simon80> hey hobbsee, can you review?
[03:31] <Hobbsee> hey Simon80 
[03:31] <Hobbsee> not at the moment
[03:31] <Simon80> lol
[03:31] <ajmitch> at this hour?!
[03:31] <Simon80> oh, but you're capable
[03:32] <Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
[03:32] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:32] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: can review
[03:32] <Simon80> well, someone, lol
[03:36] <Cyllene> theCore: Well, yeah. But I incorrectly assumed that the presence of an RSA key meant you have both a public and a private part.
[03:37] <Cyllene> gpg makes the distinction between which key is for signing and which key is for encrypting.
[03:37] <theCore> Cyllene, well, that's what public-key encryption is all about
[03:37] <Cyllene> theCore: Yeah but usually I would generate "one" RSA key which was the public and private parts.
[03:37] <theCore> Cyllene, is it the first time you use gpg?
[03:38] <Cyllene> No it's not, it's just the first time I am making my keys all complicated and not the default way. :p
[03:38] <theCore> Cyllene, what is wrong with the default options?
[03:39] <Cyllene> theCore: Nothing, I just have a habit of trying things different ways.
[03:40] <Cyllene> I.e, I like to look at different settings and methods and see what happens when you change them.
[03:53] <elektranox> ajmitch: you'r one of the REVU admins, aren't you? could you please re-sync the keyring?
[04:37] <theCore> now, I love my setup
[04:38] <theCore> I got everything at the right place
[04:38] <theCore> hopefully, it will pay off
[04:48] <somerville32> Is there a TODO list somewhere?
[04:58] <Hobbsee> somerville32: there's a merges list
[04:58] <Hobbsee> merges.ubuntu.com
[05:53] <somerville32> Can someone re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring please?
[05:54] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ^
[05:55] <somerville32> Use your stick thinger to get his attention :] 
[05:56] <Hobbsee> nah...
[06:14] <imbrandon> gnight all
[06:15] <somerville32> Night
[06:51] <Simon80> anyone feel like reviewing 8)
[07:21] <peanutb> can the gpg keyring please be resynced
[07:21] <joejaxx> bhale: exess flood kicks
[07:21] <joejaxx> DBO: 
[07:22] <DBO> ?
[07:22] <joejaxx> beofre you joined
[07:22] <joejaxx> want a paste?
[07:23] <joejaxx> DBO: http://fluxbuntu.org//view.php?id=302
[07:23] <DBO> yeah its a bot attack
[07:24] <joejaxx> yeah
[07:29] <peanutb> how would i submit a package that is written in php?
[08:09] <somerville32> peanutb: Same way you would submit any other package.
[08:31] <somerville32> Anyone around?
[08:33] <crimsun> in some fashion.
[08:34] <somerville32> I've just dh-maked
[08:34] <somerville32> updated changelog
[08:34] <somerville32> updated control
[08:35] <somerville32> However, I'm a bit confused about rules
[08:38] <somerville32> Should I uncomment dh_python?
[08:38] <somerville32> It is a python application
[08:40] <crimsun> which approach to Python Policy does it use?
[08:40] <somerville32> No idea
[08:40] <somerville32> haha
[08:40] <somerville32> I'm packaging this from scratch
[08:48] <somerville32> Hmmm
[08:48] <somerville32> I think I got it
[08:53] <somerville32> Do I need a dirs file?
[08:59] <crimsun> not necessarily
[09:00] <crimsun> my suggestion since it's a python app is to read the Debian Python Policy. You'll also find the Debian wiki on Python Policy helpful.
[09:04] <somerville32> Crimsun: Can you resync the ring?
[09:05] <crimsun> I'm not a revu admin.
[09:11] <somerville32> Do I need a menu file?
[09:12] <somerville32> Or can I just let the Makefile install a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications ?
[09:12] <crimsun> whatever you want.
[09:13] <crimsun> normally if it installs an fd.o-compliant desktop file, that's sufficient
[09:15] <somerville32> E: pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
[09:17] <crimsun> ignore that lintian error.
[09:17] <somerville32> ajmitch: ping
[09:19] <somerville32> Oh
[09:19] <somerville32> Looks like it already was synced
[09:19] <somerville32> It uploaded
[09:20] <somerville32> "Package includes an .orig.tar.gz file although the debian revision suggests
[09:20] <somerville32> that it might not be required. Multiple uploads of the .orig.tar.gz may be
[09:20] <somerville32> rejected by the upload queue management software."
[09:22] <somerville32> crimsun: When my upload is processes, can you review it for me? :] 
[09:22] <crimsun> probably not 
[09:22] <crimsun> honestly, I'm swamped until the end of December
[09:23] <somerville32> lol, alright
[09:23] <somerville32> I don't see a "recover password" link anywhere
[09:24] <crimsun> just enter a null password
[09:24] <somerville32> k
[09:24] <somerville32> thanks
[09:26] <somerville32> I'm going to go make some juice and hopefully my package will have been processed by then :] 
[09:36] <somerville32> crimsun: I don't see it yet
[09:37] <crimsun> are you a member of the universe contributors LP team?
[09:38] <somerville32> Yup
[09:39] <somerville32> The keyring might not have been synced
[09:39] <somerville32> But I thought that it would have been rejected when I tried to upload
[09:40] <crimsun> what syntax did you use?
[09:47] <somerville32> dput pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[09:47] <crimsun> that's a silent reject
[09:47] <crimsun> default_host_main = ubuntu
[09:47] <crimsun> [ubuntu] 
[09:47] <crimsun> fqdn = upload.ubuntu.com
[09:48] <crimsun> you're not in the ubuntu-dev keyring, so your upload was dropped silently
[09:48] <crimsun> sorry, a silent failure
[09:48] <crimsun> the reject semantics are different
[09:48] <crimsun> you need to use dput revu blah
[09:50] <somerville32> Ok
[09:50] <somerville32> Modified
[09:50] <somerville32> set revu to default
[09:50] <somerville32> and uploaded
[09:50] <somerville32> :)
[09:59] <somerville32> Hmmm...
[09:59] <somerville32> Still not showing up
[10:06] <somerville32> crimsun: I got an e-mail for the reject from Ubuntu
[10:06] <somerville32> From it isn't showing up in revu and there is no e-mail
[10:06] <crimsun> then wait for the revu keyring to be synced
[10:22] <Gloubiboulga> somerville32: what does your dput.cf looks like?
[10:23] <Gloubiboulga> ah, nm
[10:23] <Gloubiboulga> !
[10:23] <somerville32> "Since Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake),"
[10:23] <Gloubiboulga> I thought you were trying to upload to the repos
[10:23] <somerville32> Does that mean I need to do what it says on that page?
[10:24] <somerville32> nvm
[10:24] <somerville32> It is already the same :] 
[10:26] <somerville32> Why isn't the keyring synced automatically?
[10:44] <somerville32> We need more MOTU admins :/
[10:46] <ajmitch> it isn't synced automativally because it takes quite awhile to run
[10:46] <ajmitch> due to gpg sucking
[10:46] <somerville32> Omgz, you're awake!
[10:47] <somerville32> Yeah! :)
[10:47] <ajmitch> no I'm not
[10:47] <somerville32> Doh : (
[10:48] <somerville32> Can you resync the keyring for me in your sleep too? :] 
[10:48] <ajmitch> I'm already doing it, before any more people want to bug me about it
[10:50] <somerville32> Will you let me know when you're done? :] 
[10:52] <ajmitch> it's still going
[10:54] <somerville32> Since anyone can join that team, why not just let everyone upload to revu?
[10:55] <ajmitch> because we want at least some checks
[10:55] <ajmitch> ok, it's done
[11:00] <somerville32> When I decrypt my password, it says "None"
[11:01] <ajmitch> have you uploaded a package & had it appear on revu?
[11:02] <stgraber> ajmitch: Do you have a few minute to review an upload on revu ?
[11:02] <ajmitch> no
[11:02] <stgraber> ok
[11:02] <somerville32> ajmitch: Well, I'm still waiting
[11:02] <somerville32> And it has the GPG stuff there when it didn't have it there before
[11:03] <ajmitch> if you haven't had a package uploaded & processed on revu, an account is not created
[11:03] <somerville32> ok
[11:04] <somerville32> I got an error when I tried to upload after sync
[11:04] <somerville32> Should I force?
[11:04] <ajmitch> no
[11:04] <ajmitch> it won't do any good
[11:05] <ajmitch> what was the package?
[11:05] <somerville32> pyneighborhood_0.3-0ubuntu1
[11:05] <ajmitch> try again now, with dput -f
[11:06] <somerville32> Successfully uploaded packages.
[11:13] <asabil> hi all
[11:13] <somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3614
[11:13] <somerville32> :)
[11:17] <asabil> can someone accpet this package ?
[11:17] <asabil> http://download.gna.org/libg3d/debian/
[11:19] <asabil> anyone ?
[11:43] <Gloubiboulga> hello Hobbsee 
[11:43] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:44] <Admiral_Chicago> Hobbsee: what time is it over there?
[11:44] <Hobbsee> @time sydney
[11:44] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: December 03 2006, 21:44:45
[11:44] <ubuntu-es> Hobbsee: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> why is ubuntu-es in here?
[11:45] <Hobbsee> !bot
[11:45] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[11:45] <Hobbsee> @help
[11:45] <ubuntu-es> Hobbsee: (help [<plugin>]  [<command>] ) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> oh right, it just triggers with @
[11:45] <Admiral_Chicago> @time Chicago
[11:45] <Ubugtu> Current time in America/Chicago: December 03 2006, 04:45:43
[11:45] <ubuntu-es> Admiral_Chicago: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
[11:46] <Admiral_Chicago> :\
[11:46] <Admiral_Chicago> anyways it's almost 5 AM here 
[11:46] <crimsun> did we ever discover why ubuntu-es is even here?
[11:48] <Hobbsee> i never did
[11:48] <elkbuntu> does anyone know to who he belongs?
[11:48] <ajmitch> no, ban it
[11:48] <tsmithe> how do i go about getting something into universe?
[11:49] <Hobbsee> what?  they fixed -motu's bans
[11:49] <Admiral_Chicago> Hobbsee & elkbuntu, i'm considering applying for IRC operator team, any ideas?
[11:49] <elkbuntu> Admiral_Chicago, you dont apply.
[11:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell: sladen and fbond are the only ops.
[11:50] <Hobbsee> and none of them seem to have the power to add more ops?
[11:50] <Hobbsee> Seveas: is that right?
[11:50] <tsmithe> looks like it
[11:50] <Admiral_Chicago> how does that work then?
[11:50] <tsmithe> looking at the access/level list
[11:50] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: yes...
[11:51] <somerville32> I bet one of them has the password to the channel
[11:51] <Admiral_Chicago> according to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-irc it says you apply, but does that mean just the LP team?
[11:52] <somerville32> If not, we can ask rob to reset the password
[11:53] <Seveas> Hobbsee, the crapbot is in -locoteams as well
[11:54] <Seveas> if you find awake freenode staff, please poke them
[11:54] <Hobbsee> Seveas: well, if we had ops for here, then we could fix it?  it seems that not everyone can get ops here now
[11:54] <tsmithe> anyhoo: how do i go about getting something into universe?
[11:54] <Seveas> Hobbsee, freenode staff can get ops everywhere :)
[11:54] <somerville32> tsmithe: See the wiki :P
[11:54] <Hobbsee> Seveas: i meant adding people to the access list.  but true
[11:55] <somerville32> tsmithe: Under MOTU/
[11:55] <tsmithe> which wiki?
[11:55] <tsmithe> ah
[11:55] <somerville32> Hobbsee: If they have the password, when they authenticate with chanserv, they are level 50
[11:55] <Hobbsee> somerville32: they're *staff* - they should be able to override that
[11:56] <Admiral_Chicago> maybe someone can explain the IRC operators thing to me later
[11:56] <somerville32> Freenode staff can reset the password, yeah
[11:58] <tsmithe> right... how do go about packaging a python application
[11:58] <tsmithe> at the moment it's just the one file
[11:59] <somerville32> tsmithe: Read the packaging guide :] 
[11:59] <tsmithe> anywhere to point me to with regards to the debian/ directory contents?
[11:59] <tsmithe> specifically for python?
[11:59] <tsmithe> or is it not too different?
[12:00] <somerville32> Thats what I'm trying to figure out
[12:00] <somerville32> haha
[12:00] <somerville32> :] 
[12:00] <sivang> tsmithe: deprecated already :)
[12:01] <tsmithe> bah
[12:01] <tsmithe> i've only heard of it
[12:01] <tsmithe> do i have to use pbuilder?
[12:01] <sivang> tsmithe: there's a new python policy, http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
[12:01] <somerville32> tsmite: You don't _have_ to
[12:01] <tsmithe> cool
[12:02] <tsmithe> ...it's all so bureaucratic
[12:03] <sivang> tsmithe: indeed, but it must be if we want to keep large project like debian and ubuntu tidied
[12:03] <tsmithe> i understand that
[12:04] <tsmithe> having only just started learning python yesterday, this is a big step
[12:04] <somerville32> level #ubuntu-motu list
[12:04] <somerville32> err... mischan
[12:04] <tsmithe> i think you missed /msg chanserv
[12:06] <tsmithe> isn't there some kind of document somewhere that describes how to write the debian/control file for a python script?
[12:07] <Riddell> tsmithe: google for debian python policy
[12:07] <Riddell> 11:07 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- An access level of [20]  is required for [CLEAR]  on #ubuntu-motu
[12:08] <Riddell> err, hmm, now how do I get rid of this @
[12:08] <StevenK>  /deop Riddell ?
[12:08] <tsmithe> this @?
[12:08] <Riddell> rocking
[12:08] <tsmithe> but it's so long
[12:09] <Riddell> well debian/control is just the same for any package, there's just a couple of python specific bits
[12:11] <tsmithe> thing is, for python, i don't need to build it, and the source and binary packages would be almost identical, with respect to the program itself (not the packaging stuffs)
[12:11] <tsmithe> the debian python policy goes on about modules
[12:11] <tsmithe> mine isn't a module
[12:13] <tsmithe> well, i'll just do it the same as for any other pacakge
[12:13] <tsmithe> and then add the python-specifics
[12:14] <somerville32> I doubt anything special will be needed
[12:15] <tsmithe> somerville32, what "Section: " would the source package be for my app?
[12:17] <somerville32> universe/sound ?
[12:17] <somerville32> universe/system ?
[12:17] <tsmithe> i'll choose universe/sound
[12:18] <tsmithe> bah
[12:18] <tsmithe> anyone else?
[12:18] <tsmithe> is there a list?
[12:20] <tsmithe> anyone?
[12:20] <tsmithe> :(
[12:20] <Gloubiboulga> tsmithe: look at the debian policy
[12:20] <Gloubiboulga> all the sections are listed
[12:21] <tsmithe> thanks
[12:21] <tsmithe> so it will be universe/sound
[12:21] <Gloubiboulga> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
[12:21] <Gloubiboulga> "sound" only, don't use "universe"
[12:23] <tsmithe> oh
[12:23] <tsmithe> "segment/section if the package is in the contrib or non-free distribution areas."
[12:23] <tsmithe> but it's "contrib"
[12:23] <somerville32> apt-cache show linneighborhood
[12:24] <somerville32> It shows it in universe/net
[12:24] <tsmithe> *neibourhood
[12:24] <tsmithe> stupid maintainer
[12:25] <somerville32> gobby is in universe/net too
[12:27] <Fujitsu> somerville32: The universe/ is added by the archive admins. The section in the source package control file should simply be net.
[12:27] <somerville32> oh,kk
[12:27] <Fujitsu> And with that, I shall be off to bed.
[12:34] <tsmithe> is there any guide on writing a debian/rules file?
[12:36] <tsmithe> it's ok
[12:41] <tsmithe> right...
[12:41] <tsmithe> how can i get the rules file right for a python app
[12:44] <tsmithe> could someone gimme a simple python package that i can look at as an example?
[12:46] <tsmithe> ping somebody
[12:49] <sivang> tsmithe: try to look at the hubackup source
[01:06] <tsmithe> Seeker`, your fed up with *your* connectio?!
[01:06] <tsmithe> mine's rubbish
[01:06] <tsmithe> two different routers
[01:06] <tsmithe> none get up to the 180KiB/s that i got a couple of weeks ago
[01:07] <tsmithe> it's gone down to 55!
[01:30] <pascal80> How can I get packages with missing desktop files fixed?
[01:31] <somerville32> Modify the package :] 
[01:32] <pascal80> Can I just send a patch of the desktop file?
[01:32] <pascal80> I'm not so familiar with altering packages.
[01:33] <somerville32> File a bug report and attach the patch, sure
[01:34] <pascal80> How do these bugs get picked up by a MOTU?
[01:36] <Hobbsee> subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[01:36] <Hobbsee> preferably file the bug and the patch in debian
[01:36] <Hobbsee> then it will automatically (almost) get fixed over here
[01:37] <pascal80> Thanks for your answer Hobbsee
[02:11] <tsmithe> i'm getting this warning, which i don't like
[02:11] <tsmithe> gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/toby/.gnupg/gpg.conf'
[02:11] <tsmithe> gpg: skipped "Toby Smithe <toby.smithe@gmail.com>": secret key not available
[02:11] <tsmithe> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
[02:12] <tsmithe> thing is, what's unsafe?
[02:12] <tsmithe> it looks fine to me
[02:13] <geser> tsmithe: what are the permissions of ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf?
[02:13] <tsmithe> -rw------- 1 toby toby 8084 2006-06-25 18:11 /home/toby/.gnupg/gpg.conf
[02:13] <tsmithe> looks very safe
[02:13] <tsmithe> should i make it world-readable?
[02:14] <geser> and the perms of the dir ~/.gnupg?
[02:14] <somerville32> tsmithe: use -k
[02:15] <geser> that solves the second problem but not the warning
[02:15] <tsmithe> drwx------ toby toby
[02:15] <tsmithe> -k?
[02:16] <geser> this looks safe, I don't understand where gnupg sees a problem
[02:16] <tsmithe> me neither
[02:17] <somerville32> Your name must not match your key
[02:17] <somerville32> So you need to specify it manually
[02:17] <geser> -k is an option to dpkg-buildpackage to specify the keyid
[02:17] <somerville32> or something
[02:18] <somerville32> geser: Are you free to review?
[02:18] <tsmithe> can a revu admin sync the keyring for me?
[02:18] <somerville32> ajmitch: ^^
[02:19] <geser> somerville32: what do you want reviewed?
[02:19] <somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3616
[02:21] <geser> somerville32: I'm not a MOTU (yet) but I can give it a look
[02:21] <somerville32> k
[02:21] <somerville32> :] 
[02:23] <tsmithe> it's not neighborhood!
[02:24] <tsmithe> neighbourhood!
[02:26] <somerville32> Thats not the name of the program though ;] 
[02:27] <tsmithe> good
[02:27] <tsmithe> also, revu won't recover my password
[02:27] <tsmithe> what's Elgamal?
[02:29] <somerville32> You don't get a passwd until you upload your first package.
[02:29] <tsmithe> i did
[02:30] <tsmithe> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
[02:30] <tsmithe>   asoundconf-gtk_1.0.dsc: done.
[02:30] <tsmithe>   asoundconf-gtk_1.0.tar.gz: done.
[02:30] <tsmithe>   asoundconf-gtk_1.0_source.changes: done.
[02:30] <tsmithe> Successfully uploaded packages.
[02:30] <tsmithe> Not running dinstall.
[02:30] <somerville32> Doesn't mean anything
[02:30] <tsmithe> ?
[02:30] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: you're uploading to the wrong place.
[02:30] <tsmithe> oh
[02:30] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: you didnt follow !revu
[02:30] <somerville32> That too
[02:30] <tsmithe> !revu
[02:30] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[02:30] <Hobbsee> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com)
[02:31] <tsmithe> Hobbsee, REVU says "Since Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Dapper Drake), dput is already configured for REVU uploads, with the [revu]  entry. However, if are running an earlier version you can add the following entry to your /etc/dput.cf:"
[02:31] <tsmithe> so i assumed it would be fine to leave it
[02:31] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: that's what i thought  but each time i install, i find it defaults to ubuntu.  check the dput.cf
[02:32] <tsmithe> [ubuntu] 
[02:32] <tsmithe> fqdn = upload.ubuntu.com
[02:32] <tsmithe> incoming = /
[02:32] <tsmithe> login = anonymous
[02:32] <tsmithe> [revu] 
[02:32] <tsmithe> fqdn = revu.tauware.de
[02:32] <tsmithe> incoming = /incoming
[02:32] <tsmithe> login = anonymous
[02:32] <tsmithe> hmm
[02:32] <tsmithe> ah
[02:32] <tsmithe> default_host_main = ubuntu
[02:32] <Hobbsee> yes
[02:33] <tsmithe> *again
[02:33] <tsmithe> it should be alright to p
[02:33] <tsmithe> it should be alright to upload now, then?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: yes
[02:34] <tsmithe> cool
[02:34] <somerville32> I don't think you're synced
[02:34] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: you'll just get a rejected mail from ubuntu @ your previous upload
[02:34] <tsmithe> damn... am i not synced?
[02:34] <tsmithe> it uploaded alright...
[02:34] <sivang> Hobbsee: are you approved for main by any chance? I could use a sponsership for a package
[02:34] <Hobbsee> sivang: nope
[02:34] <Hobbsee> sorry
[02:35] <tsmithe> i don't think i'm synced
[02:35] <somerville32> You aren't :P
[02:35] <tsmithe> it's not giving me a password
[02:36] <tsmithe> can someone sync me?
[02:36] <Hobbsee> it only creates you an account after your first upload
[02:36] <tsmithe> i did upload
[02:36] <Hobbsee> siretart: around?
[02:36] <siretart> Hobbsee: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
[02:36] <somerville32> tsmithe: It was rejected silently
[02:36] <Hobbsee> hah
[02:36] <tsmithe> ok
[02:36] <Hobbsee> siretart: this is not a contentless ping.  this is requesting a syncing of the keyring.
[02:36] <tsmithe> so can someone sync the keyring, and i'll try again
[02:36] <tsmithe> thanks
[02:36] <somerville32> No one is around to do it
[02:37] <tsmithe> Hobbsee's request above doesn't agree
[02:37] <somerville32> That was an automated response
[02:37] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: sorry?
[02:37] <tsmithe> automated
[02:37] <tsmithe> poo
[02:37] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:37] <somerville32> I felt the same way <g>
[02:37] <Hobbsee> s/k/g/
[02:37] <somerville32> We need more MOTU admins! :)
[02:38] <tsmithe> indeed
[02:38] <tsmithe> 131 peeps in channel and not a single admin around
[02:38] <Hobbsee> tsmithe: there are at least 3. ajmitch, siretart and imbrandon.  however none seem to be awake
[02:38] <somerville32> imbrandon is a MOTU admin?
[02:40] <somerville32> Hobbsee: Want to review my package?
[02:40] <VoX> i wonder how often hobbsee gets asked that
[02:40] <VoX> *cough*
[02:41] <somerville32> VoX: Want to review my package?
[02:41] <somerville32> :D
[02:41] <somerville32> Oh wait... were you being dirty? 
[02:41] <VoX> <_< >_> <_< ...no...
[02:41] <Hobbsee> somerville32: i think so
[02:41] <Hobbsee> VoX: heh.  a lot
[02:42] <Hobbsee> somerville32: okay
[02:42] <Hobbsee> where is it?
[02:42] <somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3616
[02:43] <tsmithe> ping motu admins!
[02:51] <Hobbsee> somerville32: that should be a good start
[02:57] <geser> somerville32: if doing a new package you can use debhelper level 5 (if I'm not mistaken)
[02:59] <Hobbsee> geser: i put that into my comments :)
[03:00] <geser> I reloaded the page now
[03:01] <somerville32> What does the different levels do?
[03:03] <somerville32> Hobbsee: What do you mean by by "Do all of those depends need to be there, or should there be related build-depends? "?
[03:04] <Hobbsee> do you know how shlibdeps work?
[03:05] <somerville32> no
[03:05] <somerville32> This is my first package
[03:05] <Hobbsee> ie, if you need those packages to install it, usually you'll need the corresponding -dev packages during compile time.  did you run this though a pbuilder?
[03:05] <Hobbsee> ah right
[03:05] <somerville32> Yup
[03:05] <geser> somerville32: debhelper evolved other the time and the different levels control the behaviour of several debhelper scripts, see also the manpage for debhelper
[03:05] <Hobbsee> if you have foo-dev as a build dep, shlibdeps will mean that you have foo as an automatic dep
[03:06] <geser> somerville32: don't ship /usr/sbin if you don't need it
[03:06] <tsmithe> if a motu admin comes along: could you sync the keyring :) ?
[03:06] <somerville32> geser: in dirs?
[03:07] <geser> yes
[03:07] <somerville32> k
[03:09] <geser> and you can remove the dependancy on linux
[03:11] <somerville32> geser: Why?
[03:11] <siretart> keyring resyncing
[03:11] <geser> Ubuntu hasn't any other kernel besides linux
[03:11] <Hobbsee> thanks siretart 
[03:12] <somerville32> geser: I was specifying a version of the kernel though
[03:12] <Hobbsee> siretart: seems like we need some more people for that
[03:12] <Hobbsee> somerville32: what for?
[03:12] <somerville32> Hobbsee: Specified in the docs
[03:12] <Hobbsee> somerville32: as in, only runs on 2.6.17 or something?
[03:12] <somerville32> No
[03:12] <somerville32> haha
[03:12] <somerville32> >= 2.2
[03:13] <geser> somerville32: even breezy has a 2.6 kernel
[03:13] <Hobbsee> you dont need that in there
[03:13] <somerville32> Oh goodie
[03:13] <somerville32> Do I need  ${misc:Depends} ?
[03:13] <siretart> Hobbsee: yes. in principle, everyone with an account on tiber should be able to do that.
[03:14] <Hobbsee> dont think so
[03:14] <Hobbsee> siretart: hmmm.  i dont have one of them :P
[03:15] <geser> somerville32: and you definitely don't want to depends on the server package, all you need is the client (if really needed)
[03:16] <somerville32> What is the client package name?
[03:17] <geser> you need probably smbfs and/or smbclient
[03:17] <geser> I haven't checked what your package really needs
[03:18] <siretart> keyring resynced and pending uploads reprocessed
[03:19] <Hobbsee> siretart: how does one get REVU powers?
[03:21] <somerville32> siretart: Maybe we should have a big red button to resync the keychain? :] 
[03:23] <siretart> somerville32: in fact, it is one sudo call
[03:24] <siretart> Hobbsee: every motu can request an account on tiber. please mail admin@tiber.tauware.de with some rationale why you think you can use one
[03:24] <somerville32> Is it possible to check to see if there are new members every once and awhile and then sync automatically?
[03:24] <Hobbsee> siretart: right.  is "to be able to resync the keyring" a suitable rationale?
[03:24] <siretart> perhaps we should trigger the resync via cron or something
[03:25] <Hobbsee> you mean it's not already?
[03:25] <siretart> no, not yet
[03:25] <siretart> I didn't expect that so many ppl are joining the contributors groups
[03:25] <somerville32> siretart: Ubuntu Open Week just occurred
[03:25] <somerville32> The whole goal was to get people involved :] 
[03:26] <siretart> given at the time it takes for a package being reviewed
[03:26] <siretart> somerville32: oh, right. right
[03:26] <siretart> anyway, I will be the whole next week incredibly busy with job and uni, and I won't be able to do much next week
[03:26] <siretart> the week after I have more time. will look after revu then
[03:29] <somerville32> siretart: Can we get the long name of the universe contributor group changed?
[03:29] <Hobbsee> yay, i can request a sync!
[03:29] <somerville32> siretart: It looks funny because it is so long.
[03:29] <Hobbsee> somerville32: ubuntu-universe-contributors?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> somerville32: and you're asking the wrong person
[03:30] <somerville32> Isn't he the owner of that group?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> no
[03:30] <Hobbsee> not that i know fo
[03:30] <somerville32> And it isn't the unix name that would be nice to have changed but the long name (or descriptive name) or w/e it is called
[03:30] <Hobbsee> *of
[03:30] <siretart> somerville32: the name was choosen on purpose and defined by the revu spec
[03:30] <siretart> I don't plan to change it. it isn't that important anyway
[03:31] <somerville32> Hobbsee: And siretart is the owner 
[03:31] <somerville32> ;] 
[03:31] <somerville32> siretart: k
[03:32] <Hobbsee> ohhh...i'm confusing contributors and sponsors
[03:32] <somerville32> I just thought it might look better as "Universe package contributors" or something
[03:32] <somerville32> no biggie
[03:32] <somerville32> Anyhow, I gotta take the dog out to pee.
[03:32] <somerville32> I'll upload my fixs to that package in a sec
[03:34] <sladen> Hobbsee/tsmithe: if you need ops on the channel, just ask ChanServ for them...
[03:35] <sladen> the access-level is intentionally zero
[03:35] <Hobbsee> sladen: [01:35]  [Notice]  -ChanServ- An access level of [10]  is required for [OP]  on #ubuntu-motu
[03:35] <Hobbsee> sladen: that doesnt work anymore
[03:36] <sladen> oh FFS, has somebody been meddling *twice* in the last week
[03:37] <Hobbsee> fun
[03:38] <sladen> that was been changed since November 23rd, which was the previous time somebody asked the Freenode team to meddle with it
[03:38] <Hobbsee> ugh
[03:39] <Hobbsee> !backports
[03:39] <ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[03:46] <somerville32> Hobbsee: Building package. Will you be able to review try #3? :] 
[03:46] <Hobbsee> maybe
[03:51] <somerville32> Oh crap
[03:51] <somerville32> I uploaded it and I forgot to fix the clean up script
[03:51] <somerville32> *rule
[03:51] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:51] <Hobbsee> fix it, upload again
[03:52] <somerville32> Wait...
[03:52] <somerville32> Those files are being placed there in the clean rule
[03:53] <tsmithe> is there an admin about?
[03:53] <somerville32> Already synced tsmithe
[03:53] <tsmithe> yay!
[03:53] <tsmithe> who do i thank?
[03:54] <Hobbsee> somerville32: then remove that section?
[03:54] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:56] <somerville32> Ok
[03:56] <somerville32> uploaded
[03:59] <tsmithe> siretart, you synced the keyring right?
[04:04] <somerville32> Can someone review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3628
[04:04] <siretart> tsmithe: right. what did you upload
[04:04] <siretart> ?
[04:04] <tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk
[04:04] <tsmithe> i just wanted to thank you for syncing
[04:04] <tsmithe> also, my upload doesn't show on the page
[04:05] <siretart> it shouldn't be necessary to sync manually. but also revu2 should already be done, so in some ways, I suck
[04:05] <siretart> tsmithe: it doesn't show up in the rejected folder either
[04:05] <tsmithe> weird
[04:05] <siretart> tsmithe: are you absolutely sure you uploaded to tiber and not to uploads.ubuntu.com?
[04:05] <tsmithe> found it
[04:06] <tsmithe> it was there
[04:06] <tsmithe> i refreshed the page
[04:06] <tsmithe> :D
[04:06] <siretart> ok
[04:06] <tsmithe> can someone review it?
[04:06] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3620
[04:07] <tsmithe> i think it's bad
[04:08] <tsmithe> hang on
[04:08] <somerville32> You're package doesn't conform to debian python policy :] 
[04:08] <tsmithe> hmm
[04:08] <tsmithe> why's that?
[04:09] <somerville32> use ${pyton:Depends}
[04:09] <tsmithe> in where?
[04:09] <somerville32> Err..
[04:09] <tsmithe> Build-depends?
[04:09] <somerville32> ${python:Depends}
[04:09] <tsmithe> depends?
[04:09] <somerville32> Yeah
[04:09] <tsmithe> build-depends then?
[04:09] <somerville32> no
[04:09] <somerville32> depends
[04:10] <somerville32> Replace python and what not with that
[04:10] <tsmithe> ah
[04:10] <tsmithe> ok
[04:11] <somerville32> You're using cdbs for that?
[04:11] <tsmithe> yes
[04:11] <tsmithe> and?
[04:12] <somerville32> Kind of overkill
[04:12] <tsmithe> it's easier
[04:14] <tsmithe> it also has this error: You've specified an unknown `target distribution' for your upload in the debian/changelog file.
[04:14] <tsmithe> but what's wrong with what i have?
[04:15] <tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk (1.0) feisty; urgency=low
[04:15] <somerville32> Ignore that error
[04:16] <tsmithe> right... re-uploading
[04:19] <tsmithe> damn
[04:19] <tsmithe> i forgot to rebuild
[04:20] <rmjb> Happy Sunday all... for those of you for which Monday has not yet arrived
[04:21] <tsmithe> happy sunday rmjb 
[04:22] <somerville32> rmjb: Are you a MOTU reviewer?
[04:22] <rmjb> heh, no I'm just a hopeful, like you I guess
[04:22] <tsmithe> right...
[04:22] <somerville32> Who do you usually get to review your stuff?
[04:23] <rmjb> I think this OpenWeek brought in a good bit of MOTU hopefuls, I hope the MOTU's can handle us
[04:23] <rmjb> I have 2 packages on REVU, I got LaserJock to review 1 and the other I emailed the ubuntu-motu list and someone reviewed that one
[04:24] <somerville32> mwolson: MOTU Reviewer?
[04:24] <rmjb> I need a follow up review now though, but I'll wait around and see
[04:24] <rmjb> somerville32: you using xchat?
[04:24] <phanatic> somerville32: what do you want to be reviewed?
[04:24] <somerville32> rmjb: Yup. Why?
[04:25] <somerville32> phanatic: I'll get the link.
[04:25] <rmjb> you can tell ubuntu members by the text that comes up when they sign in, like phanatic here : n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic
[04:25] <mwolson> somerville32: i'm not a MOTU reviewer, if that's what you were asking
[04:25] <phanatic> rmjb: but that doesn't mean i'm a motu ;)
[04:25] <rmjb> I know
[04:26] <rmjb> but it'll narrow down those to pounce on
[04:26] <phanatic> rmjb: but you're right... if someone is not a member, he cannot be a motu either :)
[04:26] <phanatic> (or she of course :))
[04:26] <rmjb> of course
[04:26] <somerville32> So, are you a MOTU Reviewer? :P
[04:30] <phanatic> somerville32: yes, i can review your upload, but cannot advocate it (yet)
[04:30] <phanatic> hey ivoks :)
[04:30] <ivoks> phanatic: hi
[04:30] <somerville32> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3633
[04:34] <rmjb> somerville32: I'm looking at your package too
[04:34] <rmjb> the debian/menu file
[04:34] <rmjb> what's that for?
[04:35] <tsmithe> so... who want's to review my package?
[04:35] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3634
[04:37] <tsmithe> PriceChild, you wanna review my package?
[04:37] <somerville32> rmbj: Debian memu entr
[04:37] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3634
[04:38] <rmjb> somerville32: hmm... wonder if I should include one in my package...
[04:39] <PriceChild> tsmithe: I'm not MOTU :)
[04:39] <PriceChild> tsmithe: I'm no-where near being a motu :)
[04:39] <PriceChild> ever :P
[04:39] <rmjb> tsmithe: you should only ask those persons that are ubuntu members, you can tell they are members by the text that comes up when they sign into the chat like phanatic n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic
[04:39] <geser> tsmithe: if the package isn't Ubuntu specific don't make it a native package (even if you are upstream)
[04:39] <rmjb> of course not all ubuntu members in this channel are MOTU
[04:40] <tsmithe> rmjb: ok
[04:40] <tsmithe> geser, how do you mean?
[04:40] <geser> create a diff.gz with the contents from the debian/ dir
[04:41] <geser> don't ship the debian/ dir in the orig.tar.gz
[04:41] <tsmithe> hmm
[04:42] <tsmithe> i don't know how to do that :(
[04:42] <phanatic> rmjb, somerville32: debian/menu is not essential... a .desktop file is more important since that's freedesktop standard
[04:42] <tsmithe> i was using galternatives as an example, and worked from that
[04:42] <rmjb> tsmithe: did you go through the excellent ubuntu packaging guide?
[04:42] <rmjb> !packaging guide
[04:42] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[04:42] <tsmithe> rmjb, yes :(
[04:43] <geser> tsmithe: galternatives is not a wise choice as an example
[04:43] <tsmithe> oh
[04:43] <tsmithe> why is that?
[04:44] <tsmithe> it's in universe...
[04:44] <geser> the alternative system is Debian/Ubuntu specific, you won't find it on other distributions
[04:44] <tsmithe> ok
[04:44] <tsmithe> but i fail to see why that makes it a poor example
[04:45] <geser> therefore galternatives doesn't split the debian changes into a diff.gz
[04:45] <geser> this is called a native package
[04:45] <tsmithe> and native packages are bad?
[04:46] <geser> not in itself but for an example of packaging
[04:46] <tsmithe> ok
[04:46] <tsmithe> so how do i split off a .diff.gz?
[04:48] <geser> if you have an orig.tar.gz without debian/ dpkg-buildpackage will put all changes (e.g. the files in debian/) into a diff.gz
[04:49] <tsmithe> this is confusing
[04:50] <tsmithe> all i am doing is running debuild -S -sa in the source directory
[04:50] <tsmithe> then uploading with dput
[04:50] <tsmithe> so how do i get an orig.tar.gz without debian/
[04:51] <geser> in most cases the tar.gz you can download from upstream doesn't have a debian/ dir
[04:51] <tsmithe> this is my own application
[04:51] <tsmithe> i created the debian dir
[04:51] <tsmithe> was this unwise?
[04:51] <geser> only if you ship it in the orig.tar.gz
[04:52] <tsmithe> but how do i get an orig.tar.gz?
[04:52] <tsmithe> debuild spits out asoundconf-gtk_1.0.dsc
[04:52] <tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk_1.0_source.build
[04:52] <tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk_1.0_source.changes
[04:52] <tsmithe> asoundconf-gtk_1.0.tar.gz
[04:54] <geser> first you should name the tar.gz asoundconf-gtk_1.0.orig.tar.gz
[04:54] <geser> debuild should create then a diff.gz which should be empty in your case
[04:55] <tsmithe> ok
[04:55] <tsmithe> then how do i go about splitting the debian/ dir off?
[04:56] <geser> it should be there (in the orig.tar.gz) in the first place
[04:56] <tsmithe> but you said to split it off into a .diff.gz
[04:56] <tsmithe> should i build the archive without the debian dir, then add it into the dir, and debuild will put it into .diff.gz
[04:56] <geser> yes
[04:57] <tsmithe> thanks :)
[04:59] <tsmithe> yay!
[05:00] <tsmithe> thanks ever so much
[05:00] <tsmithe> i've uploaded the new package
[05:00] <somerville32> geser: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3633 ? ")
[05:00] <somerville32> *:)
[05:03] <tsmithe> my latest upload, ready for review: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3636
[05:03] <tsmithe> :-)
[05:06] <geser> somerville32: some files have a copyright year 2005-2006, you should put it into debian/copyright
[05:06] <geser> and the email adress is different but I don't if it matters
[05:07] <geser> tsmithe: looks much better now
[05:07] <tsmithe> yay!
[05:08] <rmjb> geser: can you review mine?
[05:08] <rmjb> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3592
[05:08] <geser> I can look at it but I'm not a MOTU (yet)
[05:08] <rmjb> oh... well I welcome your feedback
[05:09] <tsmithe> so, to get into universe, what needs to happen?
[05:10] <geser> tsmithe: two MOTUs need to advocate it
[05:10] <tsmithe> ok
[05:11] <geser> tsmithe: don't depend on packages that don't exist (alsa)
[05:11] <tsmithe> oh
[05:11] <tsmithe> i was sure that did exist
[05:12] <geser> change the DEB_INSTALL_MANPAGES_galternatives in your rules :)
[05:12] <tsmithe> oops
[05:12] <tsmithe> i thought i had
[05:12] <tsmithe> !
[05:13] <geser> and you can use debhelper level 5
[05:13] <tsmithe> what does that mean
[05:14] <geser> it's about the features debhelper may use (see man debhelper about the different levels)
[05:15] <tsmithe> oops
[05:15] <tsmithe> the other is still on the queue
[05:18] <tsmithe> right that's better
[05:23] <tsmithe> right
[05:23] <tsmithe> who wants to review (and advocate if possible): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3638
[05:26] <tsmithe> oh bugger
[05:26] <tsmithe> it's so finickity
[05:29] <somerville32> geeser: What e-mail?
[05:30] <rmjb> somerville32: I notice you sometimes misspell a person's nick, and if you don't have it exactly right they wont get a *ping*...
[05:31] <somerville32> lol
[05:31] <rmjb> and easy way to always get it right is to type the first couple characters of their name then hit the TAB key
[05:31] <rmjb> try it out on me
[05:31] <somerville32> rmjb: I've been up for 24 hours now
[05:31] <rmjb> you need to get some sleep
[05:31] <geser> somerville32: the email mentioned in copyright statement in e.g. http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/pyneighborhood-0612031025/pyneighborhood-0.3/mainwindow.py
[05:31] <rmjb> but using the TAB completion you'll always spell the names right, even when sleepy :)
[05:32] <tsmithe> somerville32, yeah... you said you were going to sleep hours ago!
[05:32] <somerville32> geser: Both are his -email
[05:35] <geser> therefore I said I don't know if it matters if the email-address in your debian/copyright differs from the one mentioned in his copyright statements
[05:35] <geser> probably not
[05:37] <tsmithe> any motus around?
[05:37] <tsmithe> wanna advocate my package?
[05:37] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3639
[05:38] <siretart> is this dh_python and dh_pysupport stuff really required when using cdbs?
[05:39] <tsmithe> i'm not really sure
[05:39] <tsmithe> does it hurt?
[05:39] <siretart> well, it hurts my eyes when I see such things. thats bad enough
[05:40] <tsmithe> looking at the debuild output, it seems to need it
[05:40] <tsmithe> but it doesn't need dh_python
[05:40] <tsmithe> that's deprecated
[05:40] <siretart> I'm no cdbs expert either
[05:40] <tsmithe> but i'm pretty sure it needs dh_pysupport
[05:41] <siretart> well, my londonlaw package did manage it without that explicit dh_pysupport call.
[05:41] <siretart> but I'm using python-central instead
[05:41] <tsmithe> hmm
[05:42] <tsmithe> well, i've uploaded one without dh_python, if that's what you want
[05:42] <tsmithe> siretart, hang on
[05:42] <tsmithe> i'm just looking at the cdbs docs
[05:42] <somerville32> siretart: Isn't that required with the new debian python policy?
[05:43] <tsmithe> siretart, looks like i can do it all with cdbs
[05:43] <siretart> somerville32: there are several problems here. one is the new python policy, the other one is cdbs :/
[05:44] <siretart> since cdbs is supposed to make packaging easy [tm] , it should hide such silly details. the fact that it doesn't means to me that cdbs sucks badly here
[05:44] <tsmithe> siretart, without dy_pysupport i need a setup.py file
[05:44] <tsmithe> it's much easier to just use dh_pysupport
[05:45] <tsmithe> so i would definitely prefer to not have to have a setup.py
[05:45] <siretart> great!
[05:46] <tsmithe> so is that alright?
[05:46] <siretart> tsmithe: I'd suggest that you document such things in debian/rules as comments, for reference for potential revuiereviewers
[05:46] <tsmithe> ok
[05:47] <tsmithe> i'll just do that, then upload agin
[05:47] <tsmithe> *again
[05:51] <tsmithe> ok that's uploaded
[05:51] <somerville32> siretart: Are you available to review my package? :] 
[05:53] <siretart> somerville32: ask me after dec. 12
[05:54] <somerville32> Nicktu: Are you a MOTU Reviewer?
[05:54] <tsmithe> siretart, if you want, here's the latest link: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
[05:55] <somerville32> Can anyone review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3642
[05:55] <somerville32> :)
[05:55] <tsmithe> somerville32, that makes two of us ;)
[05:55] <rmjb> three
[05:55] <somerville32> We gotta get these motu folks in shape!
[05:55] <somerville32> :] 
[05:55] <rmjb> try mailing the ubuntu-motu list
[05:56] <rmjb> yeah I saw that
[05:56] <tsmithe> cool
[05:56] <tsmithe> now all i need is a motu to
[05:56] <rmjb> you all are subscribed to that list right?
[05:57] <tsmithe> 143 people in here and only four awake
[05:57] <rmjb> you can mail the list without being subscribed
[05:58] <tsmithe> well
[05:58] <tsmithe> i subscribed anyway
[05:58] <tsmithe> gets rid of the overhead of approving messages
[06:00] <somerville32> I'm already subscribed to like a million mailing lists, haha.
[06:00] <somerville32> Is anything important really going to come through on ubuntu-motu list?
[06:01] <tsmithe> any motus about?
[06:04] <tsmithe> phanatic, you wouldn't happen to be a motu, would you?
[06:04] <somerville32> A MOTU Reviewer
[06:05] <tsmithe> what he said
[06:08] <phanatic> tsmithe: i'm just a reviewer, but not a motu yet
[06:08] <tsmithe> well... do you wanna review my package anyway?
[06:09] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
[06:09] <imbrandon> tsmithe: you must rember this is sunday afternoon and nearing the holiday season
[06:09] <imbrandon> :)
[06:10] <imbrandon> moins all
[06:10] <tsmithe> imbrandon, do you wann review my package :P?
[06:10] <imbrandon> tsmithe: sure PM me the url and i'll revu it sometime today
[06:10] <imbrandon> when i get a moment
[06:11] <somerville32> imbrandon, Can I pm you my package too?
[06:11] <imbrandon> somerville32: sure, dont expect them revu'd in 30 minutes, but i promise i'll do a round today :)
[06:11] <imbrandon> :)
[06:14] <phanatic> tsmithe: as soon as i get to it, i'll have a look at it
[06:14] <tsmithe> thanks, phanatic 
[06:16] <imbrandon> ok food time bbiab
[06:17] <Adri2000> Fujitsu: piiiiiiiiiing? :)
[06:27] <gandalfn> hello, i pushed packages on REVU and would like update them. how do I have to proceed ? must only remake a dput on REVU ? change ubuntu release ?
[06:28] <somerville32> dput -f *.changes
[06:29] <gandalfn> somerville32: ok thanks 
[06:34] <somerville32> Gloubiboulga, Could you review? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3644
[06:34] <Gloubiboulga> somerville32: added on TODO, I have to go
[06:37] <somerville32> k
[06:37] <somerville32> :] 
[06:40] <amnesia> hi
[06:41] <somerville32> Hi
[06:45] <Simon80> who else can review? lol
[06:46] <somerville32> We need more Motu Reviewers :(
[06:48] <Simon80> yeah, eh
[06:48] <Simon80> my package is good! review it and you'll get in shape!
[06:48] <Simon80> or your fingers will, lol
[06:50] <Sp4rKy> hi
[06:50] <tsmithe> somerville32, how's the reviewing going?
[06:51] <tsmithe> damn I was too late to catch Gloubiboulga 
[06:53] <tsmithe> Simon80, what's your package
[06:53] <Simon80> stepmania
[06:54] <Simon80> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
[06:55] <tsmithe> dance simulation eh?
[06:55] <tsmithe> what does that entail?
[06:56] <sivang> tsmithe: that's much more then that!
[06:56] <Simon80> tsmith: you know about Dance Dance revolution?
[06:56] <tsmithe> nope
[06:56] <Simon80> haha
[06:56] <Simon80> @ sivang
[06:57] <Simon80> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4541251344823958386
[06:57] <sivang> although I'm  a MOTU, I'm not sure if I can review your package as I'm not registered in the review login
[06:57] <Simon80> I picked that cause it's ridiculous
[06:57] <sivang> any MOTU admin around /
[06:57] <tsmithe> sivang, can you review mine?
[06:57] <somerville32> Sp4rKy, are you a MOTU reviewer?
[06:57] <Simon80> tsmithe: see above, lol
[06:57] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
[06:57] <sivang> Simon80: you serious? becuase it's redicilous ?
[06:58] <tsmithe> sivang: surely you can log in? :)
[06:58] <Simon80> haha, no that video
[06:58] <Simon80> I picked stepmania cause I want stepmania
[07:00] <Simon80> but I picked that video cause it's ridiculous
[07:00] <Simon80> and then the guy gets a AA, too
[07:01] <Simon80> I personally have my own pad and all, I don't think DDR is ridiculous, just really geeky
[07:02] <somerville32> sivange: Just recover your password then
[07:03] <tsmithe> hi geser
[07:04] <Simon80> lmao: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8718199435863453649&q=dance+dance+revolution
[07:05] <sivang> Simon80: stepmani is DA THING
[07:07] <Simon80> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4232287009115643915&q=dance+dance+revolution
[07:07] <Simon80> that's the last one I'll link to.. it's just the best illustration of what DDR is to people who have never seen it
[07:08] <Simon80> plus, that 5 yo is like, pretty good, lol
[07:08] <tsmithe> and is not going to install it
[07:08] <Simon80> tsmithe can click on the download links
[07:08] <tsmithe> meh
[07:08] <tsmithe> cant be bothered
[07:08] <Simon80> you don't need flash to see google video
[07:09] <somerville32> sivang: Common'. Review our packages :P
[07:09] <tsmithe> yeah
[07:09] <Simon80> revu!
[07:09] <Simon80> lol
[07:09] <tsmithe> we need you
[07:10] <rmjb> wow, three people looking for reviewers now... not counting me... what has Open Week done!
[07:10] <tsmithe> this isn't a result of open week
[07:10] <tsmithe> my package is a result of two things
[07:11] <tsmithe> a) my desire to learn python
[07:11] <Sp4rKy> somerville32: no i'm not
[07:11] <somerville32> :(
[07:11] <tsmithe> b) my want for a gui application to switch default alsa sound card
[07:11] <Simon80> tsmith: gnome has one of those
[07:11] <tsmithe> i'm in xfce ;)
[07:11] <Simon80> I think...
[07:12] <tsmithe> gnome does
[07:12] <tsmithe> i wanted to replicate it
[07:12] <tsmithe> so i did :)
[07:12] <Simon80> rmjb: nothing to do with open week, I'm a long time user who just wants stepmania
[07:12] <Simon80> and is tired of compiling it
[07:12] <rmjb> actually I wanted reviewers before Open Week too
[07:12] <tsmithe> so where are these new reviews who have come as a result of open week!
[07:12] <somerville32> It's Sunday :] 
[07:13] <tsmithe> so
[07:13] <tsmithe> ubuntu is a volunteer thing
[07:13] <somerville32> Only real geeks come out on Sunday
[07:13] <Sp4rKy> ^^
[07:13] <somerville32> Ubuntu isn't a volunteer thing :P
[07:13] <tsmithe> i'm a volunteer
[07:13] <rmjb> yep it is
[07:13] <tsmithe> are motus paid?
[07:13] <somerville32> Paid devs don't come out on the weekends
[07:13] <somerville32> Thats why it is so quite
[07:13] <rmjb> only a handful of people are paid, and most of those are core-devs, not motus
[07:14] <tsmithe> volunteers with nothing better to do (ie me) come out on sunday. especially when it gets dark at 4pm
[07:14] <rmjb> maybe only dholbach is a paid motu
[07:14] <sivang> sorry guys, it seems I can't login and I'm a bit busy at the moment anyways, but nice going on the stepmania thing - I happen to have used it myself from source on Ubuntu
[07:14] <Simon80> yep
[07:14] <Simon80> well, no more
[07:15] <Simon80> my package is the answer, lol
[07:15] <tsmithe> sivang, recover your password? :P pleeease
[07:17] <tsmithe> with you and imbrandon reviewing and hopefully advocating my package it should get into universe soon
[07:17] <tsmithe> :)
[07:20] <zul> argh we have jehovah's witnesses living on my street
[07:21] <tsmithe> haha
[07:22] <Simon80> oh, here comes another review request, lol
[07:22] <somerville32> zul: That sounds like an excellent discussion for -offtopic :] 
[07:23] <Simon80> hahaha
[07:23] <Simon80>  !offtopic4offtopic
[07:23] <ubotu> Some things are inappropriate for #ubuntu-offtopic. It is asked that controversial topics: war, race, religion, politics (unless related to software licencing), gender, sexuality, drugs, questionable legal activities, removing of ones self from the planet are not for here, perhaps #off-topic or ##politics. Microsoft software in ##windows. (Please note Freenode Policy.) Thanks.
[07:24] <Simon80> I'm just throwing that out to laugh about, I don't mean it
[07:24] <elektranox> is the correct distri for the changelog file "feisty" or "Feisty"?
[07:24] <Simon80> feisty
[07:25] <Simon80> apt-get source existing packages and you'll see
[07:25] <tsmithe> finalbeta, are /you/ a motu reviewer?
[07:26] <finalbeta> no I'm not
[07:26] <Simon80> he's not even a member, man
[07:26] <elektranox> mh I got an mail that I've no rights to this distribution :/
[07:26] <tsmithe> Simon80, so?
[07:26] <tsmithe> elektranox, you're uploading to the wrong place
[07:26] <tsmithe> !revu
[07:26] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[07:26] <Simon80> how could he be a MOTU without being a member
[07:27] <tsmithe> Simon80, i dunno :|
[07:27] <Simon80> elektranox:  dput revu *.changes, not just dput *.changes
[07:27] <tsmithe> elektranox, "If you are not an Ubuntu developer, you can set REVU as the default host for dput by modifying the [DEFAULT]  section in dput.cf. This way, you don't need to specify what host to use when using dput to upload.
[07:27] <tsmithe>   default_host_main = revu
[07:27] <tsmithe> "
[07:28] <luks> hi. if i have a package in debian, what would be the best way to get it uploaded to ubuntu?
[07:28] <tsmithe> request a sync
[07:28] <tsmithe> or merge
[07:29] <luks> ehm, but how?
[07:29] <tsmithe> look in wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[07:29] <tsmithe> it'll be there somewhere
[07:29] <tsmithe> hang on
[07:30] <tsmithe> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging ?
[07:30] <somerville32> sync
[07:30] <somerville32> You want a sync
[07:31] <zul> ajmitch: must kill..
[07:31] <somerville32> 0_o
[07:31] <tsmithe> i would have thought a sync
[07:31] <tsmithe> but i couldn't find a wiki page for it
[07:32] <tsmithe> and that one reads "Merging and Syncing from Debian: Introduction"
[07:34] <luks> i think i'm kinda lost in the MOTU pages on the wiki
[07:34] <luks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Merging is more a technical information about how to do it, which is not exactly what i'm looking for
[07:34] <somerville32> File a bug
[07:34] <somerville32> And ask for it to be synced
[07:34] <somerville32> Subscribe the archive team
[07:35] <geser> not until you are a motu
[07:35] <somerville32> If it is in debian, it should have already been synced to Feisty though
[07:35] <luks> yep, i thought about that, but a bug to which package
[07:35] <siretart> luks: is your package already in ubuntu?
[07:35] <luks> no
[07:35] <siretart> luks: then wait a few days. the syncs are triggered manually
[07:35] <siretart> luks: I assume the archive admins are currently busy with herd-1
[07:35] <luks> but i still don't know how to request the sync :)
[07:35] <geser> as a non-motu subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to get an ACK from a MOTU
[07:36] <tsmithe> poke a motu?
[07:36] <luks> is there some kind of pseudo-package for sync requests in Malone?
[07:36] <siretart> luks: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources contains the instructions for syncs
[07:36] <siretart> please obey them
[07:37] <geser> tsmithe: you can also try to poke a motu
[07:37] <tsmithe> hi siretart: wanna advocate my package?
[07:37] <sivang> siretart: how can I become a review for universe?
[07:37] <luks> siretart: thanks
[07:38] <sivang> siretart: I mean, from the REVU POV
[07:38] <siretart> tsmithe: sorry, i'm terribly busy atm
[07:38] <sivang> siretart: ah, talk later then, cheers
[07:38] <tsmithe> awh
[07:38] <siretart> sivang: I can set your status. what's your revu login?
[07:38] <sivang> siretart: sivang ?
[07:38] <sivang> (I think)
[07:38] <tsmithe> it's your e-mail address i thought
[07:38] <Simon80> yeah
[07:38] <siretart> no, its always an email address
[07:38] <Simon80> lol
[07:39] <Simon80> it's your launchpad email anyhow, no?
[07:39] <somerville32> No, gpg e-mail address
[07:39] <sivang> siretart: then sivanATubuntu.com should be it
[07:40] <siretart> there is no such user
[07:41] <sivang> siretart: ah, then I should probably create one sometime soon, anyways this can continue later when you are less busy
[07:42] <Simon80> sivan or sivang?
[07:42] <Simon80> at ubuntu.com
[07:42] <ajmitch> hi
[07:42] <somerville32> ajmitch!!!!!
[07:42] <somerville32> :D
[07:42] <sivang> indeed, ajmitch :)
[07:42] <ajmitch> yeah, right
[07:42] <tsmithe> hi ajmitch
[07:42] <sivang> now this is the guy you want to review your packages ;)
[07:42] <tsmithe> can you review my package???
[07:42] <ajmitch> no
[07:42] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
[07:42] <somerville32> Can you review my package... please? :)
[07:42] <tsmithe> please?
[07:43] <Simon80> I would agree, sivanf, but ajmitch hasn't reviewed my package yet, lol
[07:43] <tsmithe> oh no don't do that :)
[07:43] <Simon80> sivang*
[07:43] <somerville32> ajmitch: Can you atleast set sivang up so we can review packages? :] 
[07:43] <Simon80> but my package makes you fit!
[07:43] <siretart> sivang: done
[07:43] <sivang> siretart: oh dear :)
[07:44] <tsmithe> sivang: :D
[07:44] <tsmithe> please
[07:45] <tsmithe> hi imbrandon
[07:45] <Simon80> stepmania and stepmania-data: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3608, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3609
[07:46] <imbrandon> hello tsmithe 
[07:46] <Simon80> hello imbrandon
[07:46] <Simon80> lol
[07:46] <imbrandon> heya Simon80 
[07:47] <Simon80> we're all whining about not having our packages reviewed
[07:48] <tsmithe> sivang seems to have run away
[07:48] <rmjb> you guys are really persistent
[07:48] <Simon80> lol
[07:48] <Simon80> I wanna get my killer app into feisty
[07:48] <Simon80> well, not MINE
[07:48] <tsmithe> rmjb: ^ what he said
[07:48] <tsmithe> but it is mine
[07:49] <rmjb> me too, but feisty's far off, you have until the Upstream Version Freeze to get it in
[07:49] <rmjb> !release schedule
[07:49] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about release schedule - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[07:49] <rmjb> !feisty
[07:49] <ubotu> The next version of Ubuntu (7.04; codenamed "Feisty Fawn"), it should be released in April 2007. At the moment it is pre-alpha. Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule - Specifications (goals): https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty - Help in #ubuntu+1
[07:55] <elektranox> when does the packages appear in launchpad?
[07:56] <somerville32> Amaranth_, Are you a MOTU (reviewer)?
[07:56] <Amaranth_> no
[07:56] <tsmithe> awh poo
[07:57] <imbrandon> somerville32: no he isnt
[07:57] <somerville32> imbrandon: Did you get a chance to review my package yet? :] 
[07:57] <tsmithe> or me
[07:58] <tsmithe> pester pester
[07:58] <imbrandon> somerville32: you can get a list of MOTU's at https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
[07:58] <Lutin> Hi
[07:58] <imbrandon> no i dident, it will be later today
[07:58] <imbrandon> hello Lutin 
[07:58] <Lutin> hello imbrandon
[07:58] <tsmithe> uhoh another package for review?
[07:59] <imbrandon> ( somerville32: and https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-core-dev too )
[07:59] <imbrandon> tsmithe: there is normaly a few dozzen packages to get reviewed at any one time :) and we set days aside to go through them all, but i'll make a round today like i promised :)
[07:59] <somerville32> imbrandon: Can I bug any of those people to sponsor my package?
[08:00] <tsmithe> imbrandon, thanks :)
[08:00] <ajmitch> jumping on people as soon as they say hello is a good way to scare them off
[08:00] <imbrandon> somerville32: for the most part , if you do it nicely :)
[08:00] <tsmithe> hi ajmitch :P
[08:00] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
[08:00] <rmjb> ajmitch: yes it is
[08:01] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon, what's up?
[08:01] <imbrandon> nadda, enjoying my days off, and reloading my home file server, just got a new 500GB hdd for my b-day so i'm adding it to the file server :)
[08:02] <imbrandon> and preparing a box to move imbrandon.com to
[08:02] <ajmitch> fun
[08:02] <imbrandon> heh yea
[08:02] <imbrandon> btw happy early b-day to me ,hehehe
[08:02] <tsmithe> yeah: happy birthday!
[08:03] <tsmithe> heya ajmitch: could you join imbrandon in possibly reviewing my package :)
[08:03] <tsmithe> pretty please
[08:03] <imbrandon> still umm 16 more days , but i start early :)
[08:03] <ajmitch> tsmithe: you asked only a few minutes ago
[08:03] <tsmithe> sorry :(
[08:03] <tsmithe> feels like ages here
[08:03] <ajmitch> 15 minutes!
[08:03] <tsmithe> yeah: ages!
[08:04] <imbrandon> tsmithe: dont worry bro , it will get done, it does take days ( weeks ? ) some time, part of it is being patient
[08:04] <imbrandon> :)
[08:04] <tsmithe> as you can probably see
[08:04] <tsmithe> yeah
[08:04] <somerville32> tsmithe: Why not try your hand at another package? :] 
[08:04] <imbrandon> just rember one thing and you will be golden, 90% or better of us do this in our spare time :)
[08:05] <tsmithe> what thing is that?
[08:05] <tsmithe> oh
[08:05] <tsmithe> i know
[08:05] <tsmithe> i only said earlier: Ubuntu is a volunteer project ;)
[08:05] <imbrandon> :)
[08:05] <rmjb> anyhow, off to work for me
[08:05] <imbrandon> later rmjb 
[08:05] <somerville32> imbrandon: It is just that I spent ALL night working on my package and so I'm anxious to see if I did it right so that I can move on and package more stuff.
[08:06] <tsmithe> to quote me: <tsmithe> ubuntu is a volunteer thing
 Only real geeks come out on Sunday
 ^^
 Ubuntu isn't a volunteer thing :P
 i'm a volunteer
 yep it is
 are motus paid?
 Paid devs don't come out on the weekends
 Thats why it is so quite
 only a handful of people are paid, and most of those are core-devs, not motus
[08:06] <imbrandon> somerville32: right on, i feel yea bro, just give it more than 15 minutes between asking for people to look at it ( general rule of thumb i try to follow is once every 2 hours max )
[08:06] <tsmithe> but you don't need to ask (luck devil)!
[08:06] <somerville32> Do I get e-mailed on updates or do I have to check manually?
[08:07] <imbrandon> tsmithe: not true there are core dev's like me and ajmitch that arent paid :)
[08:07] <imbrandon> and crimsun and lots of others
[08:07] <imbrandon> :)
[08:07] <tsmithe> it wasn't me that said that ;)
[08:07] <imbrandon> somerville32: not yet, you have to check
[08:07] <zul> guys you have to be patient alot of people spend time with their families on the weekend the review will get done
[08:07] <somerville32> imbrandon: Is REVU programmed in Python?
[08:08] <imbrandon> yes mostly, iirc there are a few shell scripts that run it too
[08:08] <zul> hey imbrandon 
[08:08] <somerville32> Is REVU open source?
[08:08] <imbrandon> heya zul 
[08:08] <imbrandon> somerville32: yes
[08:08] <zul> happy early bday btw
[08:08] <somerville32> Is it on lp.net?
[08:08] <imbrandon> the source is in a bzr branch on LP
[08:08] <imbrandon> zul: thanks
[08:08] <ajmitch> somerville32: yes, yes, yes
[08:09] <imbrandon> hrm LVM or non-LVM
[08:09] <imbrandon> tough choice
[08:09] <tsmithe> non-LVM ... backwards-compatibility?
[08:09] <tsmithe> easier to configure... ?
[08:10] <imbrandon> why would i care about backwards compat or easy to setup when i only have to mess with it once or twice a year , if that :)
[08:10] <imbrandon> only when i add storage to the computer is the only time it reboots ( its a file server )
[08:10] <tsmithe> well then use lvm!
[08:11] <imbrandon> :)
[08:11] <somerville32> Can I help contribute to the development of revu?
[08:11] <tsmithe> my subversive persuasion wins again
[08:11] <imbrandon> somerville32: YES,ANYONE IS WELCOME TO
[08:11] <imbrandon> gah caps
[08:11] <imbrandon> sorry
[08:11] <tsmithe> lol
[08:11] <tsmithe> what's revu2 all about?
[08:11] <imbrandon> the caps lock key should be banned from the keyboard
[08:11] <somerville32> : (
[08:12] <imbrandon> revu2 is the next version of revu :)
[08:12] <Simon80> THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPSLOCK I USE IT ALL THE TIME BUT I ALSO DONT LIKE PUNCTUATION IT IS NOT WORTH THE EFFORT
[08:12] <tsmithe> i knew that
[08:12] <imbrandon> and revu2.5 or revu3 will be intergrated into LP :)
[08:12] <tsmithe> sounds good
[08:12] <tsmithe> a bit of lp that's open!
[08:13] <Simon80> @lart imbrandon
[08:13] <Simon80> cmon bot, do my bidding!
[08:13] <imbrandon> not in here
[08:13] <Simon80> :(
[08:13] <imbrandon> only in -offtopicish chans
[08:13] <zul> for those new people did i mention that imbrandon likes shakira ;)
[08:13] <imbrandon> hahah
[08:14] <Simon80> lol
[08:14] <imbrandon> zul: you rock :P
[08:14] <zul> i do :)
[08:14] <imbrandon> heya serousily how is xen on amd64x2's vs core 2 duo's ? is there much of a diffrence in support ?
[08:15] <imbrandon> zul: ^
[08:15] <imbrandon> it probably will impact my next computer purchace this month ( bday and xmas present all in one )
[08:15] <zul> imbrandon: heh there is some issues with 2.6.17 on amd64 and xen that im trying to work through
[08:15] <tsmithe> intel support open source!
[08:15] <zul> but i would go for core 2 duos
[08:15] <imbrandon> zul: kk 
[08:16] <imbrandon> on that note, brb, my file server needs some love for a moment, bbias
[08:17] <tsmithe> hi jdong
[08:17] <jdong> anyone else seen a spyware-infested laptop boot to 450 processes?
[08:17] <tsmithe> urgh
[08:18] <tsmithe> install ubuntu for them
[08:18] <jdong> it took around 45 minutes
[08:18] <jdong> tsmithe: not a viable option unfortunately
[08:18] <tsmithe> why's that? with that much spyware they can't be doing anything unusual
[08:18] <jdong> Flash developer, and Radeon Xpress chipset too
[08:18] <tsmithe> woah
[08:18] <jdong> two death sentences to Linux
[08:18] <tsmithe> yup
[08:18] <tsmithe> until gnash is decent
[08:19] <tsmithe> or adobe does a sun
[08:19] <sivang> okay, who's the stepmania dude? :)
[08:19] <jdong> ssh: buntudot.org: Name or service not known
[08:19] <jdong> lost connection
[08:19] <jdong> ssh: buntudot.org: Name or service not known
[08:19] <jdong> lost connection
[08:19] <jdong> ssh: buntudot.org: Name or service not known
[08:19] <jdong> lost connection
[08:19] <jdong> wonderful :)
[08:19] <Simon80> me
[08:19] <Simon80> sivang: me ^^
[08:19] <sivang> Simon80: so simon, have you taken a look at at http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/stepmania-0612020415/lintian ?
[08:19] <jdong> no, my DNS server looks fine
[08:20] <Simon80> yeah
[08:20] <imbrandon> jdong: buntudot is fine, i'm on it now
[08:20] <sivang> Simon80: can you try to make this errors go away for starters?
[08:20] <jdong> imbrandon: interesting :)
[08:20] <Simon80> W: stepmania source: newer-standards-version 3.7.2
[08:20] <Simon80> I can't make THAT go away
[08:20] <jdong> imbrandon: works now... :)
[08:21] <tsmithe> Simon80, you can't: it's a lintian thing
[08:21] <Simon80> tsmithe: read what I said, lol
[08:21] <sivang> Simon80: well, let's start with the ones you can make go away , like the cvs stuff for instance
[08:21] <Simon80> yeah, but then my diff gets crufty
[08:21] <sivang> Simon80: ignore the standards version
[08:22] <Simon80> sivang: I was ignoring that
[08:22] <sivang> Simon80: okay, cool, now why exactly you can't remove the cvs cruft from the package?
[08:22] <Simon80> and also ignoring the feisty complaint
[08:22] <Simon80> sivang: cause then my diff gains some functionally useless changes
[08:22] <Simon80> that's all
[08:23] <sivang> Simon80: okay, is it too much to make it go away? I mean, your source package should not include in RCS leftovers what-so-ver
[08:23] <Simon80> sivang: okokok
[08:24] <Simon80> it's the orig's fault though, as you can see in my diff
[08:25] <imbrandon> Simon80: you should still clean it up imho and then stab upstream to do the same
[08:25] <Simon80> it seems that's the consensus
[08:26] <Simon80> as you can see, my opinion is that it doesn't interfere with the diff, and so it's pretty anal to make a fuss over it
[08:26] <Simon80> but I'll remove them
[08:26] <Simon80> with the build*
[08:26] <imbrandon> Simon80: alot of packageing is anal :)
[08:26] <sivang> Simon80: and I was going to say that, but imbrandon said it already
[08:26] <imbrandon> but still correct none the less
[08:26] <sivang> Simon80: has to be anal, or else complete system will fall apart like domino bricks
[08:26] <Simon80> lol
[08:27] <sivang> Simon80: that's dead serious :)
[08:27] <jdong> crikey! The spyware is trying to propagate through my network.
[08:27] <Simon80> sivang: by definition, I use anal to refer to cases where you could have ignored it without such a catastrophe occurring... that's why it's anal to care
[08:27] <sivang> Simon80: tell Chris that he should prepare source distros without the cvs cruft, IIRC there's something in make distclean for that :p
[08:27] <imbrandon> you have a computer that is known to have spyware and its still has a network cable on it ?
[08:27] <imbrandon> jdong: ?
[08:28] <jdong> imbrandon: how else do I load the ANTI spyware on :D
[08:28] <Simon80> sivang: make distclean didn't clean it, or it wouldn't be there
[08:28] <ajmitch> Simon80: there's a lot of things we could turn a blind eye to, but it doesn't mean we should
[08:28] <imbrandon> cdrom / usbkey
[08:28] <jdong> imbrandon: pfft that takes more effort :)
[08:28] <jdong> and F-Secure's freakin installer demands network access
[08:28] <imbrandon> time to find a new program then
[08:28] <Simon80> ajmitch: my question is, why not? it's not going to change the resulting binary package at all
[08:28] <tsmithe> that's proprietary for you
[08:28] <Simon80> so it's pure nitpicking
[08:29] <jku> how do postinst/postrm/etc scripts get included in the package? What should I do in debian/rules?
[08:29] <imbrandon> Simon80: the resulting binary isnt all we care about :)
[08:29] <Simon80> but the cruft will remain in the diff!
[08:29] <Simon80> like a wart!
[08:29] <imbrandon> no , you remake the diff after its cleaned from the orig
[08:30] <sivang> jku: usually, you include something like $pkg-name.{postinst,preinst,..} in debian/
[08:30] <imbrandon> !package guide | jku 
[08:30] <ubotu> jku: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[08:30] <Simon80> that's what I mean, and then the cruft appears in it
[08:30] <Simon80> lol
[08:30] <imbrandon> Simon80: not if its not in the orig, no it wont
[08:30] <sivang> jku: then you could call a cdbs target that would take care of installing them, or just use dh_install
[08:30] <Simon80> imbrandon: it IS in the orig
[08:30] <sivang> jku: but plesae refer to the packaging guide for further explenations
[08:30] <imbrandon> Simon80: exactly, TAKE IT OUT
[08:31] <Simon80> um... repack the orig????????????
[08:31] <Simon80> over cruft???????
[08:31] <Simon80> this is just crazy
[08:31] <sivang> Simon80: then bug upstream to make sure cvs cruft is not included in it
[08:31] <tsmithe> i thought the orig wasn't supposed to deviate from upstream?
[08:31] <jku> hmm, I was trying to find out how to do it without cdbs or dh... but I'll go RTM now.
[08:31] <sivang> tsmithe: not in most of the cases, but sometime there's a corner case
[08:31] <imbrandon> tsmithe: there are cases it should and then you poke upstream to do the same
[08:31] <tsmithe> and this is one
[08:32] <Simon80> this wouldn't be what I call a corner case
[08:32] <imbrandon> right
[08:32] <Simon80> there are real reasons not to repack, and this wouldn't outweigh those
[08:32] <imbrandon> Simon80: it is, and just as dfsg is too
[08:32] <Simon80> dfsg is a reason, but this doesn't have any functional benefit, unlike dfsg
[08:32] <imbrandon> Simon80: its not about outweighing them, its about the quality of whats in the repo
[08:33] <Simon80> blargh
[08:33] <sivang> imbrandon: the repo should not include cvs/bzr/snv/whatever cruft even if it's included upstream, it's bad enough that upstream has it
[08:33] <sivang> s/snv/svn/
[08:33] <imbrandon> sivang: right, i totaly agree
[08:34] <imbrandon> and upstream should be smaked to get it removed as well
[08:34] <imbrandon> Simon80: thats part of the job as packaging
[08:34] <imbrandon> :)
[08:34] <sivang> just what I Was going to say ;)
[08:34] <sivang> thing is, we need to not only be willing to use upstream's packages, but also to help them make it of higher quality if we see fit
[08:34] <imbrandon> Simon80: dont feel singled out, EVERYONE has had to go through this
[08:35] <Simon80> yeah, I know, I just think that it's more important to care about the package putting prefs in ~/.package than to worry about cvs cruft
[08:35] <Simon80> the cruft doesn't matter at all
[08:35] <fdoving> there are no rules (in debian anyway) that i could find some time ago, about removing rcs files from source packages. sometimes it's even desireable to have them included.
[08:35] <imbrandon> Simon80: thats the thing, they are both equaly as important
[08:36] <Simon80> no they aren't!
[08:36] <Simon80> one of them results in a package being broken for the user
[08:36] <imbrandon> Simon80: to you maybe, but to the project as whole
[08:36] <Simon80> the project has messed up priorities then, because the users are priority #1
[08:37] <Simon80> any other concern should be viewed in light of how it helps developers help users
[08:37] <Simon80> and this actually detracts from that
[08:37] <sivang> Simon80: could you please give an example of removing rcs files breaking an app? if this is the case, this package would not even get included in debian/ubuntnu from the first place
[08:37] <Simon80> sivang: you misunderstood
[08:37] <ajmitch> you're making a huge fuss over a 30-second job
[08:37] <imbrandon> ajmitch: exactly
[08:37] <Simon80> ajmitch: 30 sec if I don't screw up
[08:38] <siretart> bah! 50 mails alone in the last few hours on motu-reviewers mailing list
[08:38] <ajmitch> yes, there have been several uploads of the same package
[08:39] <imbrandon> heya siretart 
[08:39] <siretart> heyho imbrandon, hi ajmitch 
[08:39] <Simon80> sivang: not having prefs in the home dir is broken, but leaving cruft in has absolutely no negative consequences, therefore fixing the first issue is of greater importance
[08:40] <Simon80> and I really don't think it's necessary to go bug upstream about redoing a year old release tarball because debian devs are squeamish about cruft, cause I'm pretty sure the average person will think it's anal too
[08:40] <siretart> Simon80: right. but removing cruft is quite easy and not likely to break stuff, while being very obvious for reviewers
[08:41] <Simon80> yes, but it results in my orig tarball not matching upstream's, which is bad
[08:41] <jdong> if anyone is feeling exceedingly bored, I would appreciate some feedback as to if katapult from edgy-backports is broken or not
[08:41] <jdong> it works perfectly for me
[08:41] <jdong> but I got an e-mail from someone stating it doesn't work
[08:41] <jdong> (i.e. ALT+space did nothing)
[08:42] <Simon80> anyway, what about the outdated autotools files, do I delete those? or rerun automake/autoconf?
[08:42] <siretart> Simon80: ouch. when its in the upstream tarball, I personally wouldn't care too much about it either
[08:42] <fdoving> Simon80: i'd say making the package usable with watch files is more importan than a little messy .diff that removes the rcs files.
[08:43] <Simon80> fdoving: I'm not sure which side that makes you on?
[08:43] <Simon80> I'm against repacking
[08:44] <Simon80> but others in here have put it forward
[08:44] <fdoving> Simon80: making the package work with watch files is like saying 'we only modify stuff inside the debian/ dir'
[08:44] <sivang> Simon80: last time I checked, the program itself should take care of creting ~/prefs stuff, and this should not be part of the packaging responsibility. Now, please, I don't like to argue, so if there are other folks who are interested in reviewing/approving, I'm happy with that.
[08:45] <Simon80> sivang: it's the packagers responsibility when upstream won't do it, lol
[08:45] <Simon80> and they don't, unfortunately
[08:45] <sivang> Simon80: come on tomorrow, and ask seb128 (gnome team) about how many times he had to modify the source or bugged upstream from source issues
[08:46] <sivang> Simon80: think about it - the upstream maintainer might not even realize this has slipped, and might be thankful to you
[08:46] <Simon80> well, thanks for the review, I appreciate that
[08:47] <Simon80> the thing is,I don't mind bugging upstream, but if I know they don't mind leaving cruft in, then I don't feel right telling them to remove it, cause it isn't a big deal
[08:48] <Simon80> I don't actually know what to do about outdated-autotools-helper-file though, do I remove it?
[08:48] <Simon80> the files in question?
[08:48] <tsmithe> lucky Simon80 ...
[08:48] <Simon80> lol, tsmithe: unlucky, scroll up
[08:48] <tsmithe> i've been reading
[08:49] <tsmithe> i'm on the side where you keep the orig as upstream's, and do a lot of diff'ing
[08:49] <imbrandon> ok i'm off for a bit to do some christmass shopping see yall in a few
[08:49] <jdong> tsmithe: there are exceptions to that though :-/
[08:49] <tsmithe> hmm
[08:49] <Simon80> jdong: not in this case
[08:49] <jdong> tsmithe: i.e. ktorrent comes bundled with non-free components
[08:49] <jdong> Simon80: relax I wasn't arguing against you :)
[08:50] <Simon80> :)
[08:50] <tsmithe> ok... i agree about ktorrent
[08:50] <tsmithe> they shouldn't do that anyway upstream
[08:50] <somerville32> ...
[08:51] <jdong> tsmithe: I've tried arguing against it, but apparently having those country flags is a critical feature for ktorrent :D
[08:51] <tsmithe> country flags? non-free?
[08:51] <somerville32> Are you saying they have version control stuff in their release?
[08:51] <Simon80> haha
[08:51] <jdong> tsmithe: yes, the GeoIP database and the little flag icons
[08:51] <jdong> tsmithe: are both not up for Free redistribution
[08:51] <Simon80> funny thing: all this arguing over stupid cruft, and meanwhile I notice a real issue with stepmania-data
[08:52] <Simon80> I mean, lintian thing
[08:52] <tsmithe> jdong, well they're silly then, aren't they
[08:52] <jdong> Simon80: may I suggest playing a violent video game or two to coll off? ;-)
[08:52] <somerville32> Good idea!
[08:52] <somerville32> :] 
[08:52] <jdong> tsmithe: yeah they are, but that doesn't change the situation :)
[08:53] <tsmithe> evil! it better be running linux!
[08:53] <Simon80> jdong: nah, I was going to fix this build-depends-indep thing and then go play DDR
[08:53] <jdong> tsmithe: I said play games, not compile ppc packages :)
[08:53] <Simon80> using STEPMANIA, thank you very much :D
[08:54] <Simon80> lol
[08:54] <Simon80> only I'm using cvs
[08:54] <jdong> Simon80: look out, don't trip on CVS cruft ;-)
[08:54] <Simon80> lol
[08:54] <tsmithe> lol
[08:54] <Simon80> well, ok, are there any devs here that don't care about cvs cruft and would like to review my package?
[08:54] <Simon80> haha
[08:55] <somerville32> Simon80, Just do an SVN export instead of check out (or what ever it is)
[08:55] <Simon80> somerville32: what? the package I'm getting reviewed is from a release tarball
[08:56] <Simon80> the cvs usage is my own business
[08:56] <Simon80> that's stepmania-4.0~cvs20061118
[08:56] <jdong> lovely :)
[08:56] <Simon80> lintian has a field day with it
[08:56] <jdong> I remember coming across release tarballs of packages full of ~ editor backups and such
[08:56] <Simon80> CVS EVERYWHERE
[08:56] <somerville32> Just... delete it
[08:57] <Simon80> I didn't wanna pollute my diff
[08:57] <jdong> Simon80: why not just repack the tarball?
[08:57] <jdong> it really does sound like 30 seconds of find | xargs rm work
[08:57] <somerville32> Or use a patch system
[08:57] <Simon80> because having a matching tarball matters to me more than not having cruft
[08:57] <somerville32> Plus ask upstream to fix the issue
[08:58] <jdong> !seen Mez
[08:58] <ubotu> I last saw Mez (i=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez) 3d 9m 18s ago, quiting: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[08:58] <Simon80> this is the argument I was having just now, I don't think anybody should care, and I don't want to ask upstream to waste their time repacking the tarball just because a few devs here are totally anal
[08:58] <jdong> !e-mail mez about prevu
[08:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about e-mail mez about prevu - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:58] <jdong> aww :(
[08:59] <Simon80> @email mex
[08:59] <Simon80> lol
[08:59] <Simon80> mez*
[08:59] <jdong> now it's gonna make me pull out big wad of blue Ajax
[08:59] <tsmithe> or use evolution
[09:00] <tsmithe> :)
[09:00] <elektranox> mh in which file are the modules, which are loaded by default, saved?
[09:00] <jdong> tsmithe: as soon as gmail properly does imap I will :)
[09:00] <jdong> tsmithe: if I use evolution I then have to make sure my gmail is synced with my evolution
[09:00] <jdong> in terms of read/unread messages
[09:00] <tsmithe> evolution does that for me
[09:01] <jdong> tsmithe: no it doesn't :)
[09:01] <geser> elektranox: /etc/modules
[09:01] <jdong> tsmithe: you can set gmail to archive messages downloaded via POP
[09:01] <jdong> that's about the granularity of your control
[09:01] <tsmithe> jdong, tell it to "Expunge deleted messages"
[09:01] <tsmithe> and it archives them
[09:01] <tsmithe> is that bad?
[09:01] <jdong> so the delete command does an archive?
[09:01] <jdong> didn't know that
[09:02] <tsmithe> it does
[09:02] <elektranox> geser: but there must be another file, because not all modules, which are loaded on my notebook are in this file
[09:02] <tsmithe> i only discovered it by accident :)
[09:03] <jdong> "getting message 1 of 897"
[09:03] <jdong> lovely :)
[09:03] <ajmitch> Simon80: hint, calling people 'totally anal' really isn't helpful
[09:04] <jdong> tsmithe: where is this option? ;-)
[09:04] <tsmithe> err
[09:04] <tsmithe> hang o
[09:04] <tsmithe> n
[09:04] <tsmithe> you on feisty? i am - might be different...
[09:05] <jdong> tsmithe: edgy...
[09:05] <Simon80> ajmitch: I know, I know... but I'm very convinced that it is the case here
[09:05] <doomsday-> hello there.. I'm looking for some help with autotools. Anyone knows where I can find it ? (I've got already manual)
[09:06] <Simon80> have you found the book?
[09:06] <Simon80> it's a bit out of date, but that's how I learned
[09:06] <Simon80> http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/
[09:06] <Simon80> not saying it's the easiest way to go, but it's a decent resource, I think
[09:07] <jdong> ack maybe I should just start using my mit.edu IMAP account more :D
[09:07] <doomsday-> Yup, I have some variant of this one
[09:08] <Simon80> ajmitch: can you tell me what to do about the outdated-autotools-helper-file warning at least? I can't even deal with that cause I don't know off the top of my head whether I need to delete them or rerun autoconf/automake
[09:09] <tsmithe> jdong: i can't find it and yelp's dead...
[09:09] <tsmithe> it justs says "Expunging deleted messages" on send/receive
[09:10] <elektranox> can I make sure that a module is loaded after another module?
[09:11] <ajmitch> Simon80: sorry, I'm at work now, but look at autotools-dev
[09:13] <jdong> tsmithe: mine does too but it actually doesn't change the status of the gmail at all
[09:13] <tsmithe> hmm
[09:13] <tsmithe> but it does mine
[09:13] <jdong> tsmithe: the only other option I have is setting in gmail to archive the message when it's downloaded via POP
[09:13] <jdong> which I don't want
[09:14] <tsmithe> wow 1322 spam
[09:14] <jdong> 3919
[09:14] <tsmithe> mine says: "1. Status:  POP is enabled for all mail that has arrived since 20:13"
[09:14] <tsmithe> the last time i checked for new
[09:15] <tsmithe> why don't you want it to archive on download?
[09:15] <jdong> tsmithe: because I use gmail webmail and the java gmail client a lot too
[09:15] <tsmithe> ah
[09:15] <tsmithe> ok
[09:15] <jdong> tsmithe: and if it archives every time evolution picks it up... yeah see the problem? ;-)
[09:15] <tsmithe> yeah
[09:15] <tsmithe> well i only ever use evo so...
[09:16] <tsmithe> hi lucas
[09:16] <tsmithe> wanna review my package?
[09:17] <lucas> hi
[09:17] <lucas> no, thanks :)
[09:17] <tsmithe> awh
[09:17] <tsmithe> ok then
[09:21] <tsmithe> anyone else? :)
[09:24] <tsmithe> meh i'll just post the link anyway
[09:24] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3643
[09:28] <geser> tsmithe: change the package(galternatives) in your menu file
[09:28] <tsmithe> oh
[09:28] <tsmithe> thanks
[09:30] <tsmithe> right
[09:34] <Sp4rKy> i would know if a package which provides external repository use can be accepted to universe ?
[09:35] <lifeless> what do you mean?
[09:36] <Sp4rKy> lifeless: i work on the E17 repo , which isn't official repository
[09:36] <Sp4rKy> can i add a e17-desktop package on universe
[09:36] <Sp4rKy> s/a/an
[09:36] <lifeless> what would this package do ?
[09:36] <tsmithe> Sp4rKy, are you a motu ;) ?
[09:36] <Sp4rKy> which warn user with a debconf message, and if the user is agree modify the sourceslist and install E17
[09:36] <Sp4rKy> tsmithe: nop, why ?
[09:37] <tsmithe> wondered if you would revu my package...
[09:37] <lifeless> Sp4rKy: I dont see that that would conflict with policy at all... but why not just upload the e17 debs to universe ?
[09:37] <Sp4rKy> i can't
[09:37] <lifeless> tsmithe: what do you need reviewed ?
[09:37] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3652
[09:38] <Sp4rKy> lifeless: because actually the main dev of E17 doesn't want we upload it in any offical repo (nor ubuntu neither debian)
[09:38] <lifeless> raster ?
[09:38] <Sp4rKy> yes
[09:39] <Sp4rKy> :)
[09:39] <lifeless> we should get horms and K to chat with him :)
[09:39] <tsmithe> i don't like the sound of the e17-desktop idea
[09:39] <tsmithe> it could lead to sabotage and malware
[09:40] <Sp4rKy> :p
[09:40] <tsmithe> people add untrusted repos through an official package; that repo installs spyware... urgh
[09:40] <lifeless> seriously though, yes you can do it, but I think its an attempt at a backdoor into universe... 
[09:40] <tsmithe> sorry, but i feel that the packages should just go into universe
[09:40] <lifeless> I dont mean that maliciously
[09:40] <tsmithe> it's safer
[09:40] <lifeless> I do think its much much better to either:
[09:40] <Sp4rKy> i know, but we can't
[09:40] <lifeless>  * put the packages in universe - you get all the quality checks, updates for performance etc.
[09:41] <lifeless> or
[09:41] <lifeless>  * Dont. Give people instructions on your website.
[09:41] <Sp4rKy> ...
[09:41] <lifeless> actually you can, the code is GPL right :)
[09:41] <Sp4rKy> yes
[09:41] <Sp4rKy> of course
[09:41] <Sp4rKy> there is no "legal" issue
[09:41] <tsmithe> so distribute it!
[09:42] <Sp4rKy> but i don't know if we can provide a package which use external repo
[09:42] <lifeless> hmm, its too early for tokyo
[09:42] <tsmithe> Sp4rKy, why not just add all the packages from that repo to universe?
[09:42] <lifeless> we should chat with raster about this
[09:42] <lifeless> tsmithe: social problem with the lead dev. 
[09:42] <Sp4rKy> tsmithe: look just before, we can't
[09:42] <lifeless> tsmithe: we're talking at one remove, need to discuss directly.
[09:42] <tsmithe> this is silly
[09:43] <Sp4rKy> lifeless: we've already discuss a lot with ratser, but he doesn't want ...
[09:43] <Lutin> lifeless: it'd be a loss of time
[09:43] <Lutin> s/loss/waste
[09:43] <lifeless> ok, so why does he not want it? what are the risks ?
[09:43] <somerville32> lifeless: Would you review my package too? :)
[09:44] <Sp4rKy> lifeless: he doesn't want people ask the E-dev for bugs which are only due to packaging issue / special distro settings
[09:44] <stgraber> anyway, if the code is under GPL, that's just a social thing, he can't do anything against the packaging (except if all the code is under is own copyright and he can just change the licence)
[09:45] <somerville32> sthraber: License changes aren't retroactive
[09:45] <somerville32> gah
[09:45] <somerville32> *stgraber
[09:45] <Lutin> stgraber: he can't do anything, but he asks us nicely not to put it in distros yet
[09:45] <lifeless> Sp4rKy: no upstream wants that.
[09:46] <lifeless> Sp4rKy: what is special about e17 that makes it more likely to get badly forwarded bugs from Ubuntu ?
[09:47] <Sp4rKy> smthg like that indeed
[09:47] <Lutin> lifeless: actually the real point is that he doesn't want to have tons of users coming and asking questions about e17 as it's still in devel
[09:48] <lifeless> Lutin: in which case, wont adding a package to universe (which 4Million users can see), which enables a private repository still defeat his intent ?
[09:49] <lifeless> tsmithe: sorry, can't review now, forgotten my revu password - i've mailed the admins for that.
[09:49] <tsmithe> just recover!
[09:49] <ajmitch> morning lifeless 
[09:49] <tsmithe> try and login: then click the recover link, and run the code it tells you
[09:49] <lifeless> tsmithe: yes, did that, does not let me in with the recovered password.
[09:49] <tsmithe> wierd
[09:50] <lifeless> morning ajmitch 
[09:50] <Lutin> lifeless: I didn't ask that ;). I don't want to do that, and I don't like much this idea
[09:50] <lifeless> Lutin: ok.
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> ^^
[09:50] <Lutin> (sorry Sp4rKy)
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> lifeless: it's me who have ask 
[09:50] <Sp4rKy> Lutin: np
[09:51] <lifeless> Sp4rKy: so, I dont think we should do what you propose - it sounds like it is in spirit no different to uploading directly to universe, and its definately more problematic for Ubuntu than uploading directly would be.
[09:51] <Sp4rKy> i've think to it today, and o would know if it's possible
[09:51] <Sp4rKy> lifeless: k
[09:51] <tsmithe> hi ajmitch
[09:52] <Lutin> Sp4rKy: btw, even if it's possible I don't want it to happen
[09:52] <Sp4rKy> yes
[09:52] <Sp4rKy> it was _just_ an idea
[09:53] <Lutin> ok :)
[09:54] <Lutin> now, let's focus on this packaging stuff ;)
[09:54] <Sp4rKy> ^^
[09:55] <siretart> lifeless: what is your revu login id? (it is an email adress)
[09:55] <lifeless> oh, let me try that. It seemed to know who I was (recover gave me the correct gpg-crypted document)
[09:56] <tsmithe> hi sirestart
[09:56] <lifeless> no, still doesn't like it
[09:56] <siretart> yes. normally, you should be able to use the recover button to do that. in some cases, it returns None
[09:56] <lifeless> ah right, that is what it output (encrypted to me)
[09:58] <ajmitch> usually you only have an account on revu if you've uploaded a package there
[10:02] <tsmithe> hi slomo
[10:02] <tsmithe> could you review my package?
[10:02] <Sp4rKy> ^^
[10:02] <Sp4rKy> tsmithe: just ask each people to do this
[10:02] <Sp4rKy> just wait and your package will be reviewed
[10:02] <tsmithe> awh
[10:02] <tsmithe> ok
[10:03] <Sp4rKy> are you english ?
[10:03] <tsmithe> yes
[10:03] <tsmithe> why?
[10:04] <Sp4rKy> because if you was french, you could join #u-fr-classroom, and here, some people could "previewed" your packages and help you to make you package ready for REVU apporval
[10:04] <Sp4rKy> approval
[10:05] <tsmithe> oh
[10:05] <tsmithe> my french isn't too bad... but i don't have a very wide vocabulary, nor do i know anything technical
[10:10] <tsmithe> right i'm off
[10:11] <lifeless> tsmithe: why do you require python2.4 ?
[10:12] <lifeless> the description needs tightening up - the editorial isn't useful (imagine you are a person browsing the package list - thats the audience for that paragraph)
[10:13] <lucas> tsmithe: please stop spamming the list for reviewing requests and wait for your turn
[10:14] <siretart> or rather spam on the motureviewers list instead
[10:14] <siretart> it is there for exactly this purpose
[10:20] <lifeless> tsmithe: you've muddled the copyright in your new program : while you attribute 'some bits' to other programs, you have not preserved their copyright statements. You need to under copyright law.
[10:21] <lifeless> also, I dont understand why you dont just invoke asoundconf, perhaps that could be explained in a DESIGN doc or something in your project.
[10:25] <tsmithe> lifeless: you still around?
[10:26] <tsmithe> and sorry lucas: i didn't realise that that was bad... i was trying to keep any who were reviewing up to date.
[10:26] <tsmithe> i won't in future :)
[10:27] <lucas> think of what would happen if everybody waiting for reviews was doing the same :)
[10:27] <tsmithe> yeah... i guess
[10:27] <tsmithe> sorry
[10:27] <tsmithe> ping lifeless
[10:29] <tsmithe> anyway, i'm sure anyone else can answer the question
[10:29] <tsmithe> lifeless said "you've muddled the copyright in your new program : while you attribute 'some bits' to other programs, you have not preserved their copyright statements. You need to under copyright law."
[10:29] <tsmithe> if the copyright statements are the same, do i still need to do this?
[10:29] <tsmithe> and do I have to have the entire statement (including the GPL common stuff)?
[10:31] <lifeless> its not apparent that they have the same licence when reading your source
[10:32] <tsmithe> ok
[10:32] <tsmithe> so how explicit should I make it?
[10:32] <lifeless> explicit.
[10:32] <lifeless> no more, no less.
[10:33] <tsmithe> "Both the asoundconf and gourmet projects are also licenced under the GPLv2 licence, details of which you can find below"
[10:33] <somerville32> lifeless: If I run away to get buy something to eat and come back, will you still be around?
[10:33] <lifeless> tsmithe: are they '2 only' or '2 or later'
[10:33] <lifeless> tsmithe: do they have any exceptions ?
[10:33] <tsmithe> 2 or later
[10:33] <tsmithe> hmm
[10:33] <tsmithe> i'll check
[10:33] <lifeless> tsmithe: see my point ?
[10:34] <lifeless> tsmithe: you are combining two pieces of software to create a third.
[10:34] <tsmithe> well... sorta
[10:34] <lifeless> tsmithe: the portions of each retain their own copyright 
[10:34] <tsmithe> yes
[10:34] <tsmithe> asoundconf is version 2 or any later version
[10:35] <lifeless> you must continue to obey the all three licences simultaneously, so you cannot drop any information about the licence, or it becomes problematic
[10:35] <tsmithe> asoundconf is exactly the same licence as mine
[10:35] <tsmithe> i'm just checking gourmet
[10:35] <tsmithe> finally, i'm adding a DESIGN file
[10:40] <tsmithe> lifeless: gourmet is also under the same licence
[10:42] <lifeless> now, your comments on the setup.py - in the ubuntu context what you have done is fine. In terms of 'upstream' though, you have no way for people to install your software. Consider if Gnome wanted to replace their applet with yours
[10:42] <tsmithe> explain
[10:44] <tsmithe> why can't people upstream install my software?
[10:50] <lifeless> no setup.py
[10:50] <tsmithe> but so?
[10:51] <lifeless> no mechanism to do the install
[10:51] <tsmithe> ah
[10:51] <lifeless> not the same as 'cannot be installed'
[10:51] <tsmithe> i see
[10:51] <tsmithe> right
[10:51] <tsmithe> hmm
[10:51] <lifeless> anyhow, thats not related to ubuntu.
[10:51] <lifeless> just an observation
[10:51] <tsmithe> well, i uploaded the package without the setup.py
[10:51] <tsmithe> but i think i'll put one in my .orig.tar.gz
[11:12] <tsmithe> ping lifeless
[11:14] <WilderSon> hellpo
[11:14] <tsmithe> lifeless; don't worry ;)
[11:15] <tsmithe> hi WilderSon 
[11:15] <WilderSon> does any know where to get the dvb-dev package?
[11:15] <jdong> tsmithe: try ping -f? *g*
[11:15] <tsmithe> nah - i want to unping
[11:15] <tsmithe> i worked it out myself
[11:15] <WilderSon> i ve a vdr runing and like to compile some plugins for that .. this needs vdr-dev -- which relies on dvb-dev --- which i cannot find
[11:16] <WilderSon> hi tsmithe! ;)
[11:16] <Sp4rKy> 'd night 
[11:17] <fdoving> WilderSon: tried libdvb-dev ? 
[11:17] <WilderSon> yes-
[11:18] <tsmithe> reping lifeless
[11:18] <WilderSon> fdoving: ill have a quick look
[11:19] <shawarma> slomo: Hey. I've been looking for you. :-)
[11:20] <tsmithe> i am getting problems with setup.py and "running install_egg_info"
[11:21] <slomo> hi shawarma
[11:21] <WilderSon> fdoving: the problem is that i need the sources for the vdr and this relies on dvb-dev - at least in synaptics
[11:22] <WilderSon> or is there a way of forcing a package to be installed without taking care of other relying ones .. basicallyy these ones are only source and should be used in order to compile a plugin
[11:22] <theCore> there some Emacs fans here?
[11:23] <shawarma> slomo: I've cooked this specification up that I expect you might have an opinion on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Transitions/TeX
[11:25] <slomo> shawarma: i disagree about the first sentence already ;) tetex and texlive both provide the same and you can choose whatever you want currently in feisty... though i would want to replace tetex with texlive, only time is bit of a problem here ;)
[11:27] <slomo> shawarma: and if something depends on tetex-only this is a bug imho
[11:29] <shawarma> shawarma: How exactly do you find that we disagree?
[11:29] <shawarma> shawarma: Why are you writing to yourself?
[11:29] <shawarma> sheesh.
[11:29] <slomo> :)
[11:30] <shawarma> slomo: How exactly do you find that we disagree?
[11:30] <slomo> shawarma: i probably misread the first sentence, sorry ;) well, imho the solution is to drop tetex and use texlive because texlive is dead upstream anyway and debian plans to switch after etch... and for now packages should just depend on both as it's the case for almost all packages in feisty already
[11:31] <slomo> shawarma: s/depend on both/conditionally depend on both/
[11:31] <shawarma> slomo: Really? Maybe I have just looked at a particular unfortunate selection of packages.
[11:32] <shawarma> slomo: Most packages I've looked at *only* depend on a tetex package.
[11:32] <shawarma> slomo: no texlive deps.
[11:32] <slomo> shawarma: well, texmacs has to be fixed... but at least everything i have installed can live with both :)
[11:32] <shawarma> slomo: So you're into solution no. 3?
[11:33] <slomo> shawarma: file bugs with patches and i'll upload for you :)
[11:33] <slomo> shawarma: yes... as this is what debian already does and i don't think it makes sense to do something different here
[11:34] <shawarma> slomo: I'm just reluctant to do so.. It *does* do the job and seems correct enough, but it also seems to me that there are other, more clever solutions. e.g. solution 2.5.
[11:34] <shawarma> slomo: Oh, right. Debian doing it that way *is* a quite heavy argument.
[11:34] <slomo> shawarma: but it's much more work and when considering that tetex will die in the short term anyway... :)
[11:35] <shawarma> slomo: Well, if that certainly is the case, then yes.
[11:35] <shawarma> slomo: Still, in case a shiny new tex distribution comes along one day, we'll have the same problem again. 
[11:37] <slomo> shawarma: yes... talk with the debian tex maintainers if you want this fixed :) but i doubt that there will be many new tex distributions that are worth the effort in the next 10 years ;) and afaik texlive is only a tetex fork that is very actively maintained
[11:37] <WilderSon> has anyone here compiled a plugin for the VDR, for edgy lately?
[11:37] <shawarma> slomo: I suppose.
[11:37] <shawarma> slomo: wow. That turned out the be a VERY short lived specification. :-)
[11:38] <sivang> shawarma: that's okay, the wiki can take it all :p
[11:38] <sivang> ;)
[11:39] <shawarma> sivang: I even created a spec on launchpad and everything. I'm such a karma whore.
[11:40] <sivang> shawarma: hahaha :)
[11:40] <LaserJock> heh
[11:40] <ajmitch> LaserJock!
[11:40] <sivang> shawarma: yes, sometime I feel Karma is like Crack
[11:40] <slomo> shawarma: i would've been too lazy ;)
[11:41] <tsmithe> ping lifeless
[11:42] <LaserJock> ajmitch!
[11:42] <shawarma> slomo: I should have been too! :-)
[11:43] <shawarma> slomo: Well, I'll be sure to send some patches in your direction. Tomorrow.
[11:43] <shawarma> g'night, guys.
[11:43] <slomo> gn8
[11:44] <LaserJock> shawarma: wow, early today ;-)
[11:45] <somerville32> I'm going to go to bed too :] 
[11:45] <somerville32> LaserJock: Could you review my package? :] 
[11:45] <elektranox> how do I tell ACPI to load another module?
[11:45] <LaserJock> somerville32: did I tell you I was going to do a review for you the other day?
[11:45] <LaserJock> I lost my todo list of reviews
[11:46] <somerville32> LaserJock: No, I just uploaded it this morning
[11:46] <LaserJock> somerville32: what's the URL, I'll put it on my list
[11:47] <LaserJock> and I'll get to it when I can
[11:47] <tsmithe> LaserJock, you could do mine
[11:47] <tsmithe> somerville32, have you not slept for how long now?
[11:47] <tsmithe> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3655 ;)
[11:48] <somerville32> tsmithe: I've been awake I'd say for over 34 hours maybe
[11:48] <tsmithe> too long man
[11:48] <tsmithe> what are you on?!
[11:49] <somerville32> Karma crack! :D
[11:49] <tsmithe> :O
[11:49] <somerville32> LaserJock: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3644
[11:55] <somerville32> _o/
[12:08] <amnesia> LaserJock: how long is that list of yours. my package wants to be revu'ed too :)