[09:47] <_thumper_> Every now and then I seem to be loosing connection
[09:48] <_thumper_> so I appologise in advance if I seem to disappear
[09:48] <ddaa> ack
[10:00] <ddaa> lifeless: ping
[10:00] <ddaa> jamesh: ping
[10:00] <ddaa> poolie: ping
[10:00] <ddaa> SteveA: ping
[10:00] <ddaa> _thumper_: ping
[10:00] <ddaa> MEETING STARTS
[10:00] <lifeless> hi
[10:00] <_thumper_> hmm.. lag of 6s but lets go for it
[10:00] <ddaa> == Agenda ==
[10:00] <ddaa> Next meeting Monday 11 December, 09:00-09:45 UTC.
[10:00] <ddaa>  * roll call
[10:00] <ddaa>  * production status
[10:00] <ddaa>  * status reports
[10:00] <ddaa>  * motu code-review
[10:00] <ddaa>  * browsing branches
[10:00] <ddaa> == Roll call ==
[10:00] <ddaa>  * AndrewBennetts  flying to Melbourne for leave/OSDC (4th December).
[10:00] <_thumper_> here(ish)
[10:00] <jamesh> hi
[10:01] <ddaa> our senior management is late, but let's proceed
[10:01] <ddaa> == Production status ==
[10:01] <ddaa> New rollouts or production problems.
[10:01] <ddaa> Nothing of note from me.
[10:01] <_thumper_> nothing from me :)
[10:02] <jamesh> there hasn't been a rollout since last meeting, has there?
[10:02] <ddaa> I do not think so
[10:02] <ddaa> but there can be other events worth of mention there
[10:03] <ddaa> new fires
[10:03] <ddaa> rollout to no-webapp subsystems
[10:03] <ddaa> devpad stuff...
[10:03] <jamesh> nothing from me then :)
[10:03] <_thumper_> next
[10:03] <ddaa> == Status reports ==
[10:03] <ddaa>  * spiv: supermirror-smart-server.
[10:03] <ddaa>  * jamesh: spec-branches.
[10:03] <ddaa>  * ddaa: pyrex.
[10:03] <ddaa>  * poolie: bzr-lp features.
[10:03] <ddaa> spiv is excused
[10:03] <ddaa> hu
[10:03] <jamesh> spec-branches is landed and running on staging
[10:04] <jamesh> so can be taken off the list for next meeting
[10:04] <_thumper_> jamesh: thanks for that work btw
[10:04] <_thumper_> I appreciate it
[10:04] <ddaa> _thumper_: did you have a look at it?
[10:05] <_thumper_> brief glance, but spent more time going through work emails and meeting notes
[10:05] <_thumper_> to see what y'all were up to
[10:05] <ddaa> fair enough
[10:05] <ddaa> we should both try to review the stuff on staging
[10:05] <jamesh> I gave him the rocketfuel revno to get a diff
[10:05] <poolie> i haven't worked on bzr-lp features, but i talked to ddaa and am happy to see his new document
[10:06] <ddaa> poolie: actually sabdfl sort of pirated the stuff I started writing
[10:06] <ddaa> talk more about this later
[10:06] <ddaa> pyrex: spiv started reviewing the early code, no major complaint except lack of copyright notices, docstrings, etc. The usual.
[10:07] <ddaa> I think that's all for the status reports.
[10:07] <ddaa> == Motu code-review ==
[10:07] <ddaa> Ubuntu wants to use launcphad-bazaar in mentoring MOTUs: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/code-review
[10:07] <ddaa> That will give more exposure to bzr and launchpad-bazaar to the wider Ubuntu community. But launchpad-bazaar lacks critical features needed by this specification. In particular:
[10:07] <ddaa>  * bug 73975: Email notification for subscribed branches is not implemented. https://launchpad.net/bugs/73975
[10:07] <ddaa>  * bug 58889: Merged and abandoned branch should not appear in main branch listings. https://launchpad.net/bugs/58889
[10:07] <ddaa>  * bug 71303: Branch listings could do with status filtering. https://launchpad.net/bugs/71303
[10:07] <ddaa> Everybody please read this spec, and probably subscribe to it.
[10:07] <lifeless> if we shoud subscribe, subscribe us
[10:08] <ddaa> lifeless: well, I still want to give people the option to decide whether they are really interested
[10:08] <ddaa> so "Everybody please read this spec"
[10:08] <poolie> it's still good to explain it briefly in the meeting
[10:08] <ddaa> they want to put ./debian dirs in bzr branches
[10:09] <ddaa> in a team called "revu"
[10:09] <ddaa> in individual products
[10:09] <ddaa> (I commented on this, I think the ./debian branches should be in something else than the products proper)
[10:09] <lifeless> well
[10:09] <ddaa> and use email subscription to keep track of stuff
[10:10] <lifeless> often packaging with a VCS will in fact change things outside 'debian'
[10:10] <poolie> ok 
[10:10] <ddaa> eventually, use the review system when it's there, but the lack of email subscription is really the big blocker
[10:10] <poolie> so, ddaa, are you managing the bzr-lp side of this?
[10:10] <lifeless> so please dont push the agenda of configs or whatever too hard - its almost certain to be a pain overall at this point
[10:10] <ddaa> lifeless: you are more than welcome to comment on the spec. My main point was that the product is for stuff that's of upstream interest, and a ./debian dir for a specific distro is not.
[10:11] <ddaa> in particular since they talk of putting _only_ ./debian
[10:11] <_thumper_> sorry about that
[10:11] <ddaa> poolie: I'm happy to try managing it
[10:11] <ddaa> naturally I'll only have as much authority as SteveA and you give me :)
[10:12] <ddaa> but I'm not going to have the time to do the bulk coding
[10:12] <ddaa> so I'm leaning towards _thumper_ for help :)
[10:12] <_thumper_> ddaa, missed the start of that conversation I'm afraid
[10:12] <_thumper_> is this channel logged?
[10:12] <_thumper_> and if so where?
[10:13] <poolie> ddaa sends out logs after the meeting
[10:13] <_thumper_> ok...
[10:13] <ddaa> _thumper_: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file8XGyKe.html
[10:14] <ddaa> _thumper_: in short, branch email notification suddenly became urgent-important
[10:14] <poolie> is anyone working on those bugs?
[10:14] <ddaa> poolie: no
[10:14] <_thumper_> ddaa: ack
[10:14] <ddaa> bug 58889 is not large, so I can try doing it
[10:15] <poolie> they seem to be in the ddaa/thumper area...
[10:15] <ddaa> yeah, they all are pretty much ddaa/thumper stuff
[10:15] <poolie> ddaa, can you help tim work out how to do them?
[10:15] <ddaa> though jamesh has been seen to help on this sort of thing occasionally in the past
[10:15] <ddaa> poolie: that's my plan
[10:15] <poolie> _thumper_: is that ok with you?
[10:16] <ddaa> jamesh: how's your load looking nowadays?
[10:16] <jamesh> ddaa: I've got some bug import code to finish off, which is a priority
[10:16] <jamesh> ddaa: but I can help out afterwards/.
[10:16] <ddaa> jamesh: great
[10:17] <poolie> ddaa, please schedule a regular item to look at progress towards this
[10:17] <ddaa> poolie: sure
[10:17] <poolie> ddaa, who's driving this from the distro? who sent it to you?
[10:18] <ddaa> mh... I do not have a clear correspondant, I'll just talk to whoever is responsible for implementing the ubuntu spec
[10:18] <ddaa> that's dholbach
[10:18] <lifeless> I believe mark is initiating it 
[10:18] <lifeless> on the basis of singapore
[10:18] <lifeless> so it needs an owner in the distro, and its 99% likely that will be dholbach
[10:19] <poolie> ok 
[10:19] <ddaa> yeah, dholbach is the one who filed bug 71303 (status filtering)
[10:19] <poolie> let's say it's him till he says otherwise
[10:19] <ddaa> poolie: anything else on this topic?
[10:20] <poolie> this is really good: not too many more things to fix and real visible benefits
[10:20] <poolie> ok next?
[10:20] <ddaa> == Browsing branches ==
[10:20] <ddaa> The first two question I get asked by people interested in bzr are: 1. why should I use bzr instead of foo? 2. does it have a web interface
[10:20] <ddaa> Once, I pointed to http://goffredo-baroncelli.homelinux.net/bazaar, but this site was (is still?) "slower than molasses in Canadian winter".
[10:20] <ddaa> I think we should provide some serious branch browsing facility on Launchpad ASAP. Lacking one is a blocker to "making Launchpad a compelling reason to use bzr". (You are going to hear those words very often in the next months).
[10:20] <ddaa> unfortunately, spiv who's the current assignee for this task is away
[10:21] <ddaa> jamesh and spiv know what this should look like
[10:21] <ddaa> so this will wait one more week, I guess
[10:21] <poolie> ddaa: i agree it's important
[10:22] <ddaa> My point is, we really get moving on this stuff. People want to see shiny web browsing to take bzr seriously. Lacking this is harming adoption.
[10:22] <jamesh> my understanding was that we were planning to use webserve
[10:22] <ddaa> jamesh: yes
[10:22] <jamesh> so if webserve is too slow, then we'll need to address that
[10:22] <poolie> i think spiv may still be busy for a while
[10:22] <poolie> frankly i'd rather fix webserve first, then put it on lp
[10:22] <lifeless> If this is urgent, I suggest reassigning the task
[10:22] <lifeless> as the smart server is also very important
[10:23] <poolie> since people really want something they can use themselves
[10:23] <ddaa> jamesh: in the short term, we can probably just throw one big machine at it and adress the glue and deployment issues
[10:23] <poolie> jamesh, what's on for you once your current crunch finishes?
[10:24] <ddaa> this sort of thing tend to take one or two weeks just to adress the deployment aspect, even with all the launchpad glue implemented
[10:24] <jamesh> poolie: nothing in particular for a bit (there'll be a sprint in late January for porting LP over to the new ORM)
[10:24] <ddaa> then, if it's too slow we should of course adress the performance
[10:25] <jamesh> so I may be able to help out with some of this
[10:25] <ddaa> poolie: by the time we get there, it would be good if you could propose a mechanism to identify the performance issues in production
[10:25] <ddaa> there will also be a need for some Q&A oops-like system
[10:25] <poolie> jamesh: that would be really good 
[10:25] <jamesh> the slowness could just be from not caching enough stuff between requests
[10:26] <ddaa> performance speculation, schmeculation
[10:26] <poolie> it is also in need of some ui improvement
[10:26] <poolie> jamesh: let's talk next monday?
[10:27] <ddaa> poolie: is webserve the best thing we have today?
[10:27] <ddaa> in term of web ui
[10:27] <poolie> at least to see how you're getting on etc
[10:27] <poolie> ddaa:  afaik
[10:27] <jamesh> poolie: okay.
[10:27] <ddaa> poolie: then let's stick to it, regardless of how much improvement it could benefit from :)
[10:28] <poolie> ddaa: i think it can be improved without throwing it out
[10:28] <ddaa> okay, item reported to next week, we'll see if jamesh is in position to take it at this point
[10:29] <ddaa> Amazingly enough, we are at the end of the agenda, ahead of time.
[10:29] <ddaa> == Anything else? ==
[10:29] <ddaa> poolie: you usually have a few of those up your sleeve :)
[10:29] <ddaa> actually, the right wording is == Any other business? ==
[10:31] <poolie> just one thing: if you're taking leave other than the shutdown, please send mail about it today or tomorrow
[10:31] <poolie> so we all know
[10:31] <poolie> ddaa: nice work on the 2007h1 document
[10:32] <ddaa> poolie: right, that's the other business
[10:32] <ddaa> so, I started writing something up
[10:32] <poolie> now let's do it :)
[10:32] <ddaa> then sabdfl saw it and though "great idea"
[10:32] <ddaa> then went away and rewrote it all
[10:32] <jamesh> now it is better? :)
[10:32] <ddaa> it's different
[10:32] <ddaa> now, it's input from sabdfl, what he consider is important
[10:33] <ddaa> I plan to continue working on the stuff _I_ wrote, and circulate it privately to mpool and SteveA (that's Steve suggestion)
[10:34] <ddaa> When it becomes clearer, it'll land on the wiki
[10:34] <poolie> ddaa, ok, let's have a brief call to talk about that
[10:34] <poolie> anything else for here?
[10:34] <ddaa> nothing else for this meeting
[10:35] <ddaa> MEETING CLOSED
[10:35] <ddaa> thank you all for participating
[10:35] <poolie> quick exit from tim :)
[10:36] <ddaa> except _thumper_ who needs to get a better breed of carrier pigeons for his internet connection
[10:37] <poolie> ddaa: skype?
[10:37] <ddaa> poolie: fine
[10:37] <_thumper_> sorry that took so long to come back
[10:37] <_thumper_> had to switch to another machine
[10:37] <_thumper_> and download irc software
[10:37] <ddaa> _thumper_: I'll write minutes soon, you'll have it all then
[10:37] <_thumper_> it seems that linux doesn't deal too well with the low signal
[10:37] <_thumper_> so I've missed it all?
[10:37] <poolie> yep
[10:37] <_thumper_> arse
[10:38] <_thumper_> and I was SO looking forward to it
[10:38] <jamesh> _thumper_: the channel should be logged at http://tinyurl.com/72w39
[10:38] <poolie> read the minutes, and let's talk tomorrow
[10:38] <_thumper_> ok
[10:38] <_thumper_> poolie, what time are you off?
[10:38] <poolie> thumper, can you make sure your current numbers are on the wiki
[10:38] <poolie> 1230
[10:38] <poolie> so let's talk before i go
[10:38] <_thumper_> wiki mobile number is correct
[10:39] <_thumper_> ok
[10:39] <poolie> maybe from the airport-
[10:39] <poolie> great
[10:40] <_thumper_> ok, I'm off to bed then
[10:40] <poolie> night
[10:40] <_thumper_> roll on the 12 UTC lp meeting
[10:40] <_thumper_> :)