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[12:55] <wasabi> fun. a new race in evms.
[01:06] <jdong> oh look at that...
[01:06] <jdong> bug 74314
[01:06] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74314 in dapper-backports "Please backport firefox 2.0 from feisty" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74314
[01:07] <jdong> another one :)
[01:08] <wasabi> Silly Firefox.
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[01:58] <desrt> does anyone know if it was a conscious choice to have mdns in the nssswitch on server installs?
[01:58] <desrt> because that seems like a pretty poor choice for servers
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[01:59] <desrt> or was it more like one of those things that just carried over from the desktop without anyone really thinking about it?
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[02:59] <erdalronahi> Hi, I am from the Kurdish LoCo/Translation team. I have only today realized that the "Kurdish Ubuntu" problem was discussed a lot on the ubuntu-devel mailinglist.
[03:00] <erdalronahi> We really had difficulties to follow all the discussions on several mailinglists in several languages
[03:00] <erdalronahi> If there is anything you would like to ask from our team, please do so
[03:01] <jdong> erdalronahi: I'm not sure how many developers are active at this time though :-/
[03:01] <gnomefreak> none if any
[03:01] <erdalronahi> That's okay, I will write to the ubuntu-devel-list, too
[03:01] <jdong> ok
[03:01] <jdong> good luck, erdalronahi :)
[03:02] <erdalronahi> I was only shocked when I just read some of the polemics
[03:02] <erdalronahi> and thought I'd say hello to you
[03:02] <erdalronahi> thanks, jdong
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[03:26] <jspiro> hi all, idea : when you double-click a .mov file, ubuntu should download and install .mov player software/codecs automatically.
[03:26] <jspiro> when you double-click a .wmv file, ubuntu should download and install .wmv player software/codecs automatically.
[03:26] <jspiro> good idea?
[03:28] <Chipzz> that's actually a spec allready
[03:28] <Chipzz> but depending on upstream implementing part of it iirc
[03:28] <jspiro> which part?
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[03:31] <Chipzz> jspiro: actually, the idea is to have a gstreamer plugin which spawns a program when a codec is not found
[03:32] <Chipzz> the plugin would be reusable over different systems
[03:32] <Chipzz> the actual program would be different on different distro's
[03:32] <Chipzz> so I think it's blocking on the plugin being written
[03:32] <jspiro> cool. couldn't you guys write it yourself to make sure it's done in time for feisty?
[03:32] <jspiro> (just in case)
[03:33] <Chipzz> I'm not an ubuntu-developer really :)
[03:33] <Chipzz> just slacking here
[03:34] <Hobbsee> jspiro: not sur eif you've seen the common customisations spec - hopefully that will be covered in that.
[03:36] <Burgundavia> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/easy-codec-installation
[03:38] <jspiro> hmm. what if you click on a file you don't have a viewer for at all? like, say, an Inkscape file.
[03:39] <Burgundavia> inkscape uses svg
[03:39] <Burgundavia> which works just fine in eog
[03:39] <Chipzz> Hobbsee: wasn't that what I was talking about?
[03:40] <Hobbsee> Chipzz: possibly.  not sure @ the gstreamer plugin bit
[03:40] <jspiro> how about .exe files auto-downloading and installing Wine?
[03:40] <jspiro> there are always more extensions to handle.
[03:40] <Burgundavia> not going to happen
[03:41] <crimsun> "automatically" sounds -crackful- at best.
[03:41] <Hobbsee> jspiro: does that also apply to viruses that might be downloading?
[03:41] <jspiro> Hobbsee, if users can untar and launch binaries, why can't they unzip and run .exe files?
[03:41] <Hobbsee> jspiro: they can.  but the distro shouldnt do that for them.
[03:42] <Hobbsee> jspiro: ie, let the user shoot themself in the foot if they really want, but dont help them do it.
[03:42] <jspiro> ok, but what if they mark the .exe as executable themselves?
[03:42] <jspiro> then why shouldn't it install Wine?
[03:43] <Hobbsee> because we dont package the latest versions of wine
[03:43] <Burgundavia> because 9 times out of 10, the app is going to fail
[03:43] <Hobbsee> +1 Burgundavia.  knew i'd forgotten something there
[03:44] <jspiro> Burgundavia, what about known-good apps like the top 30 listed at http://appdb.winehq.org?
[03:44] <Burgundavia> right, and wine breaks things at regular intervals
[03:45] <zul> anyone who wants to run an .exe should use vmware or something like that
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[03:46] <jspiro> ok, so it should download and install vmware :)
[03:46] <jspiro> wait, vmware isn't packaged. :(
[03:46] <zul> vmware-player is
[03:46] <Burgundavia> and is very non-free
[03:46] <jspiro> qemu is Free.
[03:47] <Burgundavia> possibly non-supported files should popup a dialog that links to an online page listing alternatives
[03:48] <jspiro> Burgundavia, hmm, like in Windows.
[03:48] <Burgundavia> umm, no version of windows does that
[03:48] <Hobbsee> it does bring up a dialog, asking what program you want to use to run it
[03:49] <Burgundavia> that is not what I am talking about
[03:49] <Hobbsee> i think that's what jspiro is though.  the "like in windows" bit
[03:49] <Burgundavia> I am talking about saying "we know we don't support this file, here are ways to get it working"
[03:49] <Hobbsee> that sounds sane
[03:49] <jspiro> it brings up a dialog offering to take you to FilExt.com or some site like that.
[03:50] <jspiro> or you can just choose a local app to use to view it.
[03:50] <Burgundavia> right
[03:50] <Burgundavia> start a discussion on -desktop and then once a rough consensus is reached, write a spec
[03:50] <Burgundavia> then find somebody to do it :)
[03:51] <jspiro> nah :)
[03:51] <Burgundavia> only way it is going to get into Ubuntu
[03:52] <jspiro> it's not that important that it's worth bothering for me.
[03:52] <Hobbsee> then why'd you bother to bring it up here?
[03:52] <jspiro> Hobbsee, i thought it could be a mere wishlist bug filed against gnome or some such.
[03:53] <Hobbsee> jspiro: then file it, instead of random wand waving, hoping someone else will do it?  we're not fairies, you know.
[03:53] <zul> heh some of us ar
[03:53] <zul> are even
[03:54] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:55] <ajmitch> zul: us? you count yourself in there?
[03:56] <zul> of course
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[03:56] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: then again, zul *does* work on xen.
[03:57] <Hobbsee> so he's a bit crazy anyway :P
[03:57] <crimsun> a man with a stout heart he is.
[03:58] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: it could be worse
[03:59] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:59] <ajmitch> he could work on kde
[03:59] <Hobbsee> hah!
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[04:00] <zul> no i need some sanity left
[04:07] <Burgundavia> ajmitch: he works on Xen and he is canadian
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[04:09] <ajmitch> Burgundavia: point
[04:10] <bhale> Burgundavia: one hell of a beard, too
[04:10] <Burgundavia> keeps the cold out
[04:11] <bhale> or wins a ZZ Top lookalike contest
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[04:13] <fabbione> morning
[04:13] <rmjb> night
[04:14] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione 
[04:14] <ajmitch> hello fabbione 
[04:14] <wasabi> lp broke?
[04:14] <wasabi> getting timeouts.
[04:15] <bhale> wasabi: wfm
[04:15] <wasabi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu
[04:15] <wasabi> looks like other URLs work.
[04:15] <bhale> suppose youre right
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[04:25] <rmjb> hey I see there's a Falcon repository software available?
[04:25] <rmjb> does that do repo cacheing?
[04:26] <bhale> falcon is a tool by Seveas to create apt archives
[04:26] <bhale> i dont see how caching comes into it
[04:27] <rmjb> is there a repo cacheing software available? for instance, one a company may use to cache packages used on it's desktop fleet?
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[04:28] <bhale> apt-cache, apt-proxy
[04:28] <bhale> hi Hobbsee 
[04:28] <bhale> apt-cacher
[04:29] <bhale> approx
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[04:30] <rmjb> thanks bhale apt-proxy looks like what I was thinking about
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[04:36] <Chipzz> bhale: apt-cacher is really really broken
[04:36] <bhale> Chipzz: apt-proxy isnt exactly a shining example of good software..
[04:37] <rmjb> I'm seeing now a lot of these types of projects are abandoned... trying to find one that isn't
[04:37] <Chipzz> bhale: and apt-cacher just... BREAKS
[04:37] <rmjb> but at least I have a direction
[04:37] <Chipzz> bhale: apt-cacher can't resume downloads, and gives garbage when a file is incomplete
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[04:37] <Chipzz> which is bad bad bad
[04:37] <Chipzz> you manually have to remove the file
[04:38] <bhale> ok very sorry for mentioning it
[04:38] <bhale> shrug
[04:40] <Chipzz> bhale: I wasn't attacking you, just trying to explain why apt-cacher is not a good idea ;)
[04:40] <Chipzz> anyway, that bug may have been fixed, but I think it hasn't
[04:40] <Chipzz> I abandonded it quite a while ago
[04:41] <Chipzz> (abandonded -> using)
[04:42] <rmjb> Chipzz: since you were using it before what are you using in place of it now?
[04:43] <Chipzz> rmjb: nothing
[04:43] <rmjb> because you no longer have the need or there's nothing that works?
[04:43] <Chipzz> I don't have a large setup anyway; was just trying to save some bandwith
[04:44] <Chipzz> didn't know about apt-proxy, didn't have the need really
[04:45] <rmjb> I don't have a large setup either, just a couple vm's to test packages on and I'd like to cache the dependencies for when I'm tweaking the control files and re-testing
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[04:47] <Chipzz> you could manually copy the downloaded files in /var/cache/apt/archive? ;)
[04:48] <rmjb> that's all?
[04:48] <rmjb> or! I could nfs mount that directory to a persistent server... one that's not being reverted to a snapshot
[04:48] <rmjb> that's the ticket!
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[05:56] <fabbione> sfllaw: i am going to prepare an SRU for edgy #67299 today.
[05:56] <fabbione> sfllaw: just that you know
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[06:00] <sfllaw> fabbione: Thanks for the heads up.
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[06:08] <fabbione> sfllaw: also.. those are a series of bugs. there is one in the group that was identified only later in the process and i will need more work to fix it
[06:08] <fabbione> sfllaw: (it's some kind of mdadm overlapping with evms/lvm)
[06:08] <fabbione> sfllaw: but i agreed with the submitter that we will work on it after the first SRU that affects more users
[06:08] <fabbione> (it's all logged in the bug.. )
[06:09] <sfllaw> fabbione: Excellent.  I'll look into it tomorrow.
[06:09] <fabbione> sfllaw: perfect..
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[07:34] <dilinger> are there any xorg 7.2 packages floating around?
[07:34] <dilinger> i mean, pre-7.2 (as it hasn't been released yet)
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[07:40] <toresbe> thanks for flash 9!
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[07:52] <fabbione> dilinger: no, not yet. I think rodarvus is working on it 
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[07:55] <dilinger> fabbione: is he waiting for 7.2 to be released?
[08:05] <fabbione> dilinger: not sure to be hounest
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[08:09] <Burgundavia> dilinger: 7.2 is not yet out
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[08:10] <dholbach> <v
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[08:11] <fabbione> Burgundavia: please read a few lines above what he wrote
[08:11] <fabbione> <dilinger> i mean, pre-7.2 (as it hasn't been released yet)
[08:11] <Burgundavia> fabbione: right, sorry
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[08:39] <pitti> Good morning
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[08:39] <dholbach> heya pitti
=== pitti hugs dholbach 
[08:44] <_ion> you.each {|person| hi person }
[08:50] <pitti> _ion: happy ruby morning!
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[09:07] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[09:09] <pitti> hey ajmitch, how was the weekend?
[09:10] <ajmitch> fairly quiet :)
[09:10] <ajmitch> how was your weekend?
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[09:12] <seb128> is anybody here using procmail to filter its Ubuntu lists with one rule and $MATCH?
[09:12] <jdub> yeah
[09:12] <fabbione> seb128: yeah
[09:12] <jdub> i'll paste
[09:13] <fabbione> seb128: see /msg
[09:13] <fabbione> and adapt to your needs :)
[09:14] <seb128> jdub, fabbione: thanks you ;)
[09:15] <mdke> ooh. Can I see too?
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[09:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: btw, are you aware of giskard's merge of n-m? http://www.buntudot.org/people/~giskard
[09:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, I've just failed to act on it so far. :-(
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[09:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: yeah, no hurry, I just wanted to make sure that you know about it
[09:21] <pitti> ajmitch: what's the status of samba? shall I help you with the merge?
[09:22] <ajmitch> no, it's done
[09:22] <ajmitch> I'm just waiting for the archive to unfreeze
[09:23] <pitti> ajmitch: ah, cool (feel free to upload it already, btw)
[09:23] <ajmitch> yeah, I probably should upload that & f-spot :)
[09:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: how is herd 1 going, anything we can do to help?
[09:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: spinning hopefully final cds now
[09:27] <seb128> cool
[09:27] <seb128> unfreeze the archive before we start uploading GNOME 2.17.3 would be nice
[09:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: so if you want to test http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20061204/ , please do. :-)
[09:28] <seb128> otherwise I'm not sure on how cahotic it will go for the buildd ;)
[09:28] <seb128> let's download a CD image :)
[09:30] <Mithrandir> cheers
[09:30] <ajmitch> which ones need testing?
[09:32] <Mithrandir> all but the amd64 ones are oversized.  GNR
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[09:34] <sivang> morning
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[09:52] <fabbione> Mithrandir: do you think you can give me sparc server soonish rather than very latish?
[09:52] <fabbione> (cd image)
[09:52] <seb128> I hate regexp and procmail :p
[09:53] <seb128> why something like that doesn't work?
[09:53] <seb128> :0
[09:53] <seb128> * ^List-Id:.*<\/\.lists\.ubuntu\.com.*
[09:53] <seb128> .ubuntu.$MATCH/
[09:53] <fabbione> :0:
[09:53] <Mithrandir> fabbione: running
[09:53] <fabbione> Mithrandir: thanks
[09:54] <seb128> fabbione: :0 or :0: what difference?
[09:54] <seb128> :0 [flags]  [ : [locallockfile]  ] 
[09:54] <seb128> from the manpage
[09:54] <Treenaks> seb128: I'd also add a check to see if it comes from an ubuntu mailserver... otherwise anyone can create mailboxes for you..
[09:54] <fabbione> seb128: i don't recall.. but i have :0: everywhere
[09:55] <seb128> fabbione: I think that's about the same
[09:55] <Treenaks> seb128: :0: == lock (necessary for mbox files); :0 = don't lock (maildir)
[09:55] <seb128> Treenaks: ah ok, thank you (for the lock)
[09:56] <seb128> Treenaks: I've no said I'll not filter on the mailserver, I just want to know what is wrong to that regexp for now :p
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[09:58] <pitti> seb128: where does $MATCH come from? Don't you usually need a () to capture substrings?
[09:59] <seb128> pitti: \/
[09:59] <seb128>        MATCH       This variable is assigned to by procmail whenever it is told to extract text from a matching regular
[09:59] <seb128>                    expression.  It will contain all text matching the regular expression past the \/ token.
[09:59] <seb128> (from the manpage)
[09:59] <pitti> seb128: ah
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[10:00] <pitti> seb128: but why do you want to capture 'lists.ubuntu.com>'? don't you want the list name (before the .lists)?
[10:01] <seb128> pitti: I'm not sure I understand how it works in fact
[10:01] <seb128> <\/\.lists ... I want to get everything between "<" and ".lists.ubuntu.com"
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[10:02] <pitti> seb128: but that's not what \/ does
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[10:03] <seb128> hum
[10:03] <seb128> * ^List-Id:.*<\[^\.] *
[10:03] <seb128> * ^List-Id:.*<\/[^\.] *
[10:03] <seb128> that then?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> fabbione: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/20061204.1/ ; the edgy images there are going away, I just forgot to rm them first.
[10:05] <fabbione> Mithrandir: thanks. i use rsync so that shouldn't be an issue
[10:05] <pitti> seb128: that will capture e. g. 'sounder.lists.ubuntu.com>'
[10:05] <seb128> pitti: why? should it capture everything until the first "."?
[10:05] <pitti> seb128: ah, right
[10:05] <seb128> shouldn't
[10:05] <seb128> my regexp foo sucks
=== superm1 is now known as superm1_away
[10:06] <fabbione> seb128: can i quote that in my next gnome bug report? :P
=== seb128 slaps fabbione
[10:06] <Mithrandir> hooray, live images should be testable now.
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[10:15] <Mithrandir> yay, non-oversized alternate images.
[10:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: please test alternate/20061204.1 instead of 20061204
=== ajmitch just finished getting 20061204 :)
[10:16] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: it should rsync pretty quickly over 1204, it's just a bunch of langpacks that have been removed
=== seb128 is still downloading
[10:16] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: I grabbed with jigdo anyway
=== Mithrandir builds ogra some edubuntu images.
[10:17] <ajmitch> great, nothing to download
[10:18] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: do we care about DVD images for herd 1?  I think no, since we're already late..
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[10:21] <cjwatson> seb128: how about:
[10:21] <cjwatson> * ^List-Id:.*<.*\.lists\.ubuntu\.com>
[10:21] <cjwatson> * ^List-Id:.*<\/[^.] +
[10:21] <cjwatson> that'll give you the list name in $MATCH
[10:21] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: no
=== cjwatson goes to see if they actually install this time following his PATA fix
[10:22] <ajmitch> keyboard detection seems odd in vmware (alternate)
[10:24] <seb128> cjwatson: hum, looks good, let me try, thank you. is [^.]  the same as [^\.] ?
[10:24] <pitti> seb128: in char classes []  a dot is not magic
[10:24] <cjwatson> . is not special within []  so you don't need to escape it
[10:24] <cjwatson> ajmitch: oh?
[10:24] <seb128> ah ok
[10:25] <seb128> cjwatson, pitti: thank you
[10:25] <ajmitch> picks it up as jp after asking me to press various keys
[10:25] <cjwatson> you sure you pressed the right keys? :)
[10:25] <ajmitch> yep
[10:25] <ajmitch> did it a couple of times :)
[10:25] <cjwatson> what layout do you have?
[10:25] <ajmitch> standard US layout
[10:25] <fabbione> score
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[10:26] <ajmitch> it's also not mounting the cd, seems to be missing isofs module?
[10:26] <Mithrandir> oh well, ogra's images are oversized and he's not around to test them..
=== ajmitch is testing on amd64
=== fabbione is on sparc netinstall + raid + lvm crackness
[10:27] <cjwatson> missing isofs> damn
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[10:27] <fabbione> cjwatson: where?
[10:28] <Mithrandir> Riddell: plz test http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20061204/ ; I'm rolling -live images for you too now.
[10:28] <Riddell> Mithrandir: downloading
[10:28] <Mithrandir> Riddell: great.
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[10:29] <pitti> Mithrandir: summoning powers? :)
[10:29] <pitti> hi ogra
[10:30] <Mithrandir> pitti: apparently.
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[10:30] <Mithrandir> ogra: I have oversized images for you.
[10:30] <ogra> sexy :)
[10:31] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ogra takes only oversize...
[10:31] <cjwatson> cjwatson@drescher:~$ for x in ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.19/*.udeb; do dpkg -c $x | grep isofs && echo $x; done
[10:31] <ogra> haha
[10:31] <cjwatson> cjwatson@drescher:~$
[10:31] <cjwatson> BENC
[10:31] <Mithrandir> ogra: should I build you livefs-es too?
[10:31] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: gnr, so all the alternates are busted.
[10:31] <fabbione> oh great... meh....
[10:31] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I think I'm going to upload the kernel
[10:32] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: go for it
[10:32] <cjwatson> there goes anything else I was planning to do this morning
[10:32] <cjwatson> how can I avoid breaking the ABI checker?
[10:32] <fabbione> cjwatson: i can help you..
[10:32] <fabbione> just gimme a couple of minutes that i finish my food
[10:32] <cjwatson> fabbione: can I maybe feed you a patch and you upload it?
[10:33] <fabbione> cjwatson: sure thing
[10:33] <cjwatson> chances are I'll get it wrong
[10:33] <cjwatson> thanks
[10:33] <cjwatson> ajmitch: thanks for the heads-up
=== fabbione clones the tree again
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[10:37] <fabbione> oh actually...
[10:37] <fabbione> meh
[10:37] <fabbione> i can't clone
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[10:39] <Mithrandir> Riddell: desktop images up too
[10:42] <cjwatson> so hmm. traditionally isofs is in ide-modules, but that's gone
[10:42] <cjwatson> storage-core-modules maybe
[10:43] <ogra> Mithrandir, live is usualy a bt smaller, try it ...
[10:43] <fabbione> infinity: do you know if ports is mirroring again?
[10:44] <elmo> fabbione: no, it's not yet.  ETA is tomorrow or Wednesday
[10:44] <fabbione> elmo: ok thanks dude
[10:45] <cjwatson> fabbione: ok, yeah, can you just add 'isofs' on the line immediately after 'cdrom' in debian/d-i/modules/storage-core-modules?
[10:45] <fabbione> cjwatson: yes.. will do. do we have isofs as module on all arches?
[10:45] <cjwatson> yes
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[10:46] <Riddell> Mithrandir: thanks
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[10:47] <fabbione> cjwatson: this abi change is going to be painful. i need to do some manual work here..
[10:48] <cjwatson> ABI change?
[10:48] <fabbione> or do a global abi override
[10:48] <fabbione> no
[10:48] <cjwatson> I really hope you mean lack thereof :)
[10:48] <fabbione> there is no abi change in adding a module to udeb
[10:48] <fabbione> the problem is the getabi script.. 
[10:48] <fabbione> it doesn't cope with the new kernels
[10:48] <fabbione> and them being in universe
=== fabbione needs to do some manual unpacking
[10:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: running.
[10:48] <ogra> thanks
[10:48] <cjwatson> which new kernels?
[10:48] <infinity> -lowlatency
[10:49] <infinity> They're in universe.
[10:49] <cjwatson> ah
[10:49] <infinity> The getabi script grabs from pool/main/k
[10:49] <infinity> It's not very bright.
[10:49] <fabbione> no and it doesn't cope with all new/old kernel flavours
[10:50] <Mithrandir> you can't just disable the checker for this upload?
[10:50] <Mithrandir> (yes, I know that's bad)
[10:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: that's what i am looking at
[10:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the abi checker kicks in a few places :)
[10:50] <fabbione> just a minute please
[10:51] <fabbione> cjwatson: are you sure cdrom module??? it's already in that list
[10:51] <fabbione> cjwatson: or you meant isofs ?
[10:51] <fabbione> oh never mind
=== fabbione puts down the pipew
[10:57] <cjwatson> isofs, yes
[10:58] <fabbione> ok almost done
[10:58] <fabbione> just doing a last check
[10:58] <dholbach> ogra: there's a new g-p-m
[10:58] <cjwatson> I'm just uploading a few bits of d-i to cope with the fs-core-modules/fs-secondary-modules changes
[10:59] <fabbione> cjwatson, Mithrandir: mind to ask BenC not to rip off my testicles after this upload please? :)
[10:59] <dholbach> ogra: good morning btw :)
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[10:59] <cjwatson> I'll take the bullet for the emergency upload
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[10:59] <ogra> dholbach, i'm waiting for giskard, he wanted to clearify some things
[11:00] <dholbach> ogra: alrighty
[11:00] <cjwatson> fs-core-modules and fs-secondary-modules are both Priority: standard, so hopefully these won't really be needed, but just in case
[11:00] <fabbione> cjwatson: just kidding.. i have issues to get git working these days and they will have to live with a debdiff
[11:00] <fabbione> dpkg-source: building linux-source-2.6.19 in linux-source-2.6.19_2.6.19-7.11.tar.gz
[11:00] <fabbione> getting there
[11:00] <cjwatson> I'm sure that will be OK
[11:00] <fabbione> linux-source-2.6.19 (2.6.19-7.11) feisty; urgency=low
[11:00] <fabbione>   * Add isofs to storage-core-modules
[11:00] <fabbione>   * Disable abi checker for this upload... brrrrrr....
[11:00] <fabbione>  -- Fabio M. Di Nitto <fabbione@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 04 Dec 2006 10:52:41 +0100
[11:00] <fabbione> Mithrandir: do you want a debdiff for approval?
[11:01] <pitti> fabbione: the last time we disabled the abi checker, we broke many people's X :)
=== fabbione uploads in the meantime
[11:01] <fabbione> pitti: it's no code change this time :)
[11:01] <ogra> dholbach, likewise i'm waiting for libgnomekbd for gnome-screensaver (its a new builddep)
[11:01] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'll look at it when it hits the queue
[11:02] <sivang> abi checker is part of the kernel or the buildd ?
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: out of interest, why does the checker barf then?
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: because i don't have the old ABI's from the previous upload
[11:02] <pitti> fabbione: OIC
[11:02] <fabbione> pitti: and it would take me a great deal of time to get them
[11:02] <fabbione> cjwatson: sparc netinstall is good
[11:02] <cjwatson> sivang: part of the kernel source package
[11:03] <cjwatson> hmm, yeah, I guess netboot ought to work
[11:03] <cjwatson> good
[11:03] <fabbione> do we need a new d-i?.. 
[11:03] <sivang> cjwatson: thx
[11:03] <cjwatson> yes, we will
[11:03] <fabbione> ok
[11:03] <fabbione> well it's uploading
[11:03] <dholbach> ogra: hum, who are you waiting for with that one?
[11:06] <pitti> ogra: I'd like to drop the default dhclient dhcp timeout from 60 to 30 seconds; is that a problem for you?
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[11:08] <ogra> pitti, no, thats fine i think ...
[11:08] <ogra> dholbach, seb128, he already has a package (showed it to me in SF)
[11:09] <dholbach> ok
[11:09] <seb128> speaking about libgnomekbd?
[11:09] <dholbach> is that waiting in NEW?
[11:09] <dholbach> seb128: yes
[11:09] <seb128> no
[11:09] <seb128> it's waiting on a gnome-control-center tarball not conflicting with it in fact
[11:10] <dholbach> ahh, good we hired a g-c-c upstream ;-)
=== dholbach hugs seb128
[11:10] <ogra> poset herd1 stuff anyway 
[11:10] <seb128> :p
[11:10] <ogra> *post
=== seb128 hugs dholbach
[11:10] <seb128> yeah
[11:10] <dholbach> ogra: we're packaging gnome 2.17.3 atm
=== ogra hugs the desktop team
[11:10] <dholbach> even if that's post herd 1
[11:10] <seb128> gnome-control-center and gnome-applets needs to use it in the same time
[11:10] <dholbach> right
[11:10] <ogra> oh, my g-ss package is still 17.2, thanks for the info
[11:10] <cjwatson> ajmitch: *headscratch*. It seems to think that the us layout has a  key
[11:11] <cjwatson> which us(intl) has, but us doesn't
[11:11] <ajmitch> yes, my keyboard certainly doesn't
[11:11] <cjwatson> yeah, it's not meant to
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[11:15] <fabbione> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
[11:15] <fabbione>   linux-source-2.6.19_2.6.19-7.11.dsc: done.
[11:15] <fabbione>   linux-source-2.6.19_2.6.19-7.11.tar.gz: done.
[11:15] <fabbione>   linux-source-2.6.19_2.6.19-7.11_source.changes: done.
[11:15] <fabbione> Successfully uploaded packages.
[11:15] <fabbione> Not running dinstall.
[11:15] <fabbione> cjwatson: it's all your
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[11:15] <ogra> Keybuk, !
[11:15] <Keybuk> ?
[11:16] <fabbione> Keybuk: RUN RUN RUN you are still in time!
[11:16] <ogra> Keybuk, i have a longstanding fuse bug i'd love to solve
[11:16] <Keybuk> ask me about it tomorrow ;)
[11:16] <ogra> the udev rule for /dev/fuse is shipped in fuse-utils
[11:16] <ogra> oki
[11:17] <Keybuk> that's because the user for the device is created by fuse-utils
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[11:17] <ogra> yeah, i'd like to move both into udev somewhere ... people seem to use the module without fuse-utils, so it breaks for them
[11:17] <Keybuk> group, I mean
[11:17] <Keybuk> no
[11:17] <Keybuk> udev will not create groups
[11:18] <Keybuk> if you want it as a standard group, move it into base-files
[11:18] <cjwatson> fabbione: thanks
[11:18] <ogra> well, then into the bits that care for groups, my main concern with udev is the rules file
[11:18] <cjwatson> Keybuk: that's base-passwd
[11:18] <cjwatson> and PLEASE nobody edit base-passwd to add groups
[11:18] <cjwatson> it needs to be ported to debconf first
[11:18] <Keybuk> err, what cjwatson said -- in both points :p
[11:18] <ogra> i wont, dont worry :)
[11:18] <cjwatson> (plus I'd really like to keep base-passwd in sync with Debian)
[11:19] <ogra> i just want to fix that bug during feisty ;)
[11:19] <Keybuk> the reason that the udev package shouldn't make groups is that the system needs to still work when udev isn't installed
[11:19] <cjwatson> is depending on fuse-utils in a few more places a problem?
[11:19] <Keybuk> udev is just a mechanism for maintaining /dev, as is makedev
[11:19] <cjwatson> I don't think fuse belongs as a standard group *anyway*
[11:20] <cjwatson> as in, if I got a request to add it to base-passwd, I would reject it with "use adduser --system"
[11:20] <ogra> thats what happens currently
[11:20] <cjwatson> that's good
[11:20] <ogra> from the fuse-utils postinst
[11:20] <Keybuk> what's wrong with that?
[11:20] <cjwatson> if you need to call adduser --system in a couple more places, that's fine too
[11:20] <ogra> but we ship the module in the kernel package
[11:20] <Keybuk> you need fuse-utils to use fuse devices anyway
[11:20] <Keybuk> the module alone isn't sufficient, aiui
[11:21] <ogra> some people dont ... apparently
[11:21] <Keybuk> who?
[11:21] <cjwatson> you clearly need fuse-utils if only for the group. :)
[11:22] <cjwatson> so we aren't breaking any existing setups - anyone without fuse-utils is broken
[11:22] <cjwatson> we could consider installing fuse-utils by default
[11:22] <ogra> Keybuk, bug 74185 and bug 71771
[11:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74185 in fuse "wrong permissions on /dev/fuse" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74185
[11:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 71771 in fuse "[Edgy]  [Regression]  /dev/fuse should be root:fuse" [Medium,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71771
[11:22] <ogra> cjwatson, that sounds like the sanest plan 
[11:23] <pitti> given today's popularity, fuse-utils in desktop is worth considering IMHO; it's only 57kB compressed
[11:23] <Keybuk> ogra: neither of those bugs make it clear why they don't have fuse-utils installed
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[11:23] <ogra> (i do it in edubuntu and dont have these probs ;) )
[11:24] <ogra> Keybuk, i know ... but its not there ... no matter why ... and people load the module whith the wrong permissions, that shouldnt be possible ...
[11:24] <cjwatson> desktop> I'd have said standard, but *shrug*
[11:24] <Keybuk> loading the module isn't enough to use it though
[11:24] <Keybuk> you can load the ppp module, but you still need pppd :)
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[11:25] <ogra> but yu can load it ... even if its not a real bug because its not usable, you can still load it into a broken state which i'd like to avoid
[11:25] <Keybuk> it's not broken
[11:25] <Keybuk> root can still use it :)
[11:25] <Keybuk> and only root can install fuse-utils
[11:25] <ogra> :P
[11:25] <Keybuk> which postinst fixes the permissions anyway
[11:25] <ogra> nitpicker, you know what i mean :)
[11:26] <Keybuk> no, I don't
[11:26] <ogra> the device permissions should "juat work" if i load the module ... one way or the other 
[11:26] <ogra> *just
[11:26] <Keybuk> I don't see a problem here; reject any bugs with "install the fuse-utils package"
[11:27] <sivang> can anyone confirm that irda-utils works in its current version on feisty?
[11:27] <ogra> thats what i do 
[11:27] <Keybuk> and we can arrange for that to be installed
[11:27] <ogra> right
[11:27] <Keybuk> solved then
[11:27] <ogra> :)
[11:27] <Keybuk> the permissions seem cosmetic, given the device itself is useless without fuse-utils
[11:28] <ogra> you could hack your own fusermount together ....
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[11:28] <Keybuk> yes ...
[11:28] <Keybuk> and if someone has the skills to do that, I'm sure they know about adduser
[11:28] <Keybuk> I could write my own kernel module that needs the "l33t" group
[11:28] <Keybuk> that doesn't mean we should put that into base-passwd :p
[11:29] <ogra> the current prposed solution is fine :)
[11:29] <ogra> *proposed 
[11:38] <sivang> kent: just to make sure, the AUTOMATIC support and template in irda-utils is to enable upstart to start it on boot when an irda device is detected?
[11:38] <sivang> hrm
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[12:06] <cjwatson> smurf: ajmitch reported that us is being misdetected as jp in feisty at the moment; gen_keymap is incorrectly generating a tree claiming that  is in the us keymap. I *think* this is because it decides that us is a submap of us(intl) (which does have a  key, albeit third-level) and making incorrect decisions based on that. Do you have any idea what might be going on here?
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[12:08] <Fujitsu> cjwatson: Can you please let gcl (and maxima, once gcl has built) into dapper-updates?
[12:08] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: not right now, but in a bit I'll look
[12:09] <cjwatson> I'm assuming there is a bug to which ubuntu-archive is subscribed
[12:09] <Fujitsu> It doesn't have ubuntu-archive subscribed, but that can be quickly rectified.
[12:09] <cjwatson> please do that, yes
[12:10] <Fujitsu> Done.
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[12:18] <ailean> cjwatson, I noticed this on the ubuntu homepage a few days ago if it means anything. it came up in japanese instead of english until i hard-refreshed it a couple of times. i'm using edgy though.
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[12:44] <ogra> Mithrandir, do you want to build the isos from the edubuntu livefs ? 
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[12:46] <Mithrandir> ogra: running
[12:47] <ogra> thanks :)
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[12:50] <cjwatson> ailean: I don't maintain the web site; newz2000 does
[12:51] <ailean> cjwatson, ok
[12:51] <Mithrandir> ogra: done
=== Mithrandir suspects they failed, for some reason
[12:52] <Mithrandir> ogra: and, I give you OVERSIZED.
[12:52] <seb128> Mithrandir: desktop i386 liveCD works fine for me, I'm doing an install now
[12:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: woo
[12:53] <Mithrandir> ogra: i386 + ppc is oversized.  Enjoy.
[12:53] <Robot101> ruh-roh
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[12:53] <mnepton> PPC *is* oversized. hence no G5 Apple laptops.
[12:54] <Mithrandir> ogra: tell me when you've shaved off some langpacks and I'll rerun
[12:55] <ogra> yeps
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[01:03] <ogra> ouch ...
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[01:04] <ogra> language-pack-kde-$(language) was apparently instaled for *all* langs ...
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[01:11] <smurf> cjwatson: not at the moment. Sub-maps based only on third-level keys are somewhat ugly :-(
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[01:12] <Riddell> Mithrandir: the alternate CD complains about not being able to mount the CD.  and pyqt is entirely broken so ubiquity doesn't start on the desktop CD
[01:12] <PecisDarbs> elmo: here?
[01:13] <Mithrandir> Riddell: the former is known; isofs is missing.  Colin and Fabio are in the process of fixing / have fixed it.
[01:13] <Riddell> yeah, I saw that uploaded
[01:16] <cjwatson> smurf: maybe it's doing submaps/third-level-exclusions the wrong way round?
[01:16] <cjwatson> Riddell: pyqt's your problem, I suspect :-)
[01:16] <Riddell> cjwatson: I know I know
[01:17] <StevenK> Riddell: Would it be bug 73912?
[01:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73912 in python-qt3 "[Feisty]  qt module is busted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73912
[01:18] <PecisDarbs> anyone knows is elmo is active here? I have several questions to ask him, but he doesn't seem to answer :)
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[01:18] <cjwatson> PecisDarbs: are you sure he's the proper person to ask?
[01:19] <PecisDarbs> cjwatson: jono sent me to him :) So I don't know, I just want to know some details about one ticket :)
[01:19] <Riddell> StevenK: sounds likely
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[01:20] <cjwatson> PecisDarbs: often helps to tell people exactly what you want up-front; busy people are sometimes reluctant to answer open-ended pings because they don't know how long they'll take
[01:20] <StevenK> Riddell: I tried to fix it, and ran out of clues. I tried to dump everything I had figured out into the bug.
[01:20] <cjwatson> and, dude, six minutes
[01:21] <Riddell> StevenK: I wonder if it's gcc visibility=hidden being turned on
[01:21] <PecisDarbs> cjwatson: I understand and that is why I usually lay out concrete question in private, maybe he just missed that
[01:21] <cjwatson> you could also try e-mail
[01:21] <smurf> cjwatson:  It tries to not use third-level at all, if possible
[01:22] <StevenK> Riddell: I didn't even know gcc had that option. :-/
[01:23] <Riddell> doko_: any opinion on if bug 73912 is likey to be caused by visibility?
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73912 in python-qt3 "[Feisty]  qt module is busted" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/73912
[01:23] <StevenK> Riddell: And I bet initqt doesn't appear in the installed .so due to being stripped.
[01:23] <smurf> PecisDarbs: To be brutally honest, not ending every sentence with a smiley would probably improve your chances
[01:24] <smurf> cjwatson: is there a bug filed on this?
[01:25] <doko_> Riddell: does 3.16 work, when built in feisty? is sip-qt4 updated?
[01:25] <ogra> oh crap ... when was linuxprinting.org-ppds added to -desktop ? i totally missed that ...
[01:26] <StevenK> doko_: No, yes
[01:27] <StevenK> Actually 3.16 doesn't even build with the updated -qt4
[01:27] <ogra> Mithrandir, there is a new edubuntu-meta in the queue ... could you please approve it ? the seeds are fixed langpack wise 
[01:27] <StevenK> Er, sip-qt4
[01:27] <doko_> StevenK: other topic: do you build python2.5 modules now?
[01:28] <jono> PecisDarbs, just wait for the ticket to be processed
[01:28] <jono> PecisDarbs, you will need to be patient
[01:28] <StevenK> doko_: 3.17-0ubuntu1 does, yes
[01:28] <doko_> nice
[01:28] <Mithrandir> Riddell: does this mean kubuntu will just drop herd 1 or do you want to invest effort into fixing it?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> (before the end of today or so)
[01:28] <PecisDarbs> jono: I just need answer for other guys, how much do you think it could take, aprox.? 
[01:29] <jono> PecisDarbs, no idea, they are pretty busy guys
[01:29] <doko_> Riddell, StevenK: you could build using gcc-snapshot to see if it changes anything
[01:29] <jono> PecisDarbs, just tell the other guys it will take as long as it takes :)
[01:29] <StevenK> I was pondering building with __attribute__ ((visibility("default"))), to see if it was visibility related
[01:29] <PecisDarbs> jono I see
[01:29] <doko_> Riddell: I had the impression, that you didn't change anything with the visibility attribute
[01:30] <PecisDarbs> thanks anyway and sorry for disturbance ;)
[01:30] <Riddell> I don't see visibility in qt causing a problem with exporting a symbol in python-qt
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[01:32] <StevenK> Well, I would if I wasn't falling asleep in front of my machine.
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[01:33] <Hobbsee> StevenK: cold shower.
[01:34] <Riddell> mm, python-qt is being built with visibility=hidden
[01:34] <Riddell> wonder what tells it to do that
[01:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: there is?
[01:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: nobody seems to have told drescher. :-P
[01:36] <\sh> Riddell: overwrite it via CXXFlags?
[01:37] <cjwatson> smurf: there is now; https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/keymapper/+bug/74375
[01:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74375 in keymapper "us misdetected as jp" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:38] <cjwatson> ogra:  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5242936/dMEeyw0GCwPWGI2ee9VXsHPU8R3.txt (GPG verification of edubuntu-meta_1.21_source.changes failed: No public key)
[01:39] <Riddell> \sh: how?
[01:40] <StevenK> I note that most of the buildable stuff in -qt is done via SIP
[01:40] <cjwatson> ogra: that may be a transient error; do you think you signed that upload properly? if so I can attempt to reprocess it
[01:40] <StevenK> Black magic that it is.
[01:40] <\sh> Riddell: -fvisibility?
[01:40] <\sh> Riddell: I'll just try it
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[01:42] <Mithrandir> ogra: if you just changed ship or ship-live, you don't need a -meta upload
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[01:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: just to refresh my mind, this is also true for 'live'?
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[01:44] <Mithrandir> pitti: iirc, yes.
[01:45] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ^^ please correct me if I'm wrong.
[01:45] <pitti> ISTR that this was changed in dapper or edgy or so
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[01:46] <cjwatson> pitti,Mithrandir: yes, changed in edgy
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[01:49] <ogra> Mithrandir, i discovered that linuxprinting.org-ppds was missing as well ...
[01:49] <ogra> (from desktop)
[01:50] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok, sure; there's still no upload from you in the queue though, so either you tell cjwatson that you signed the previous one properly and it's a transient error or you should reupload a signed package.
[01:51] <mvo> can someone please do the smart sync from https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/smart/+bug/73882 please?
[01:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73882 in smart "Please sync from debian/incoming (overwrite ok)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:51] <ogra> Mithrandir, hmm ? i have an .upload file here ... and its surely signed with the keyi always use
[01:52] <Mithrandir> mvo: is it urgent?  If not, please just leave it on ubuntu-archive's work list
[01:52] <ogra> Mithrandir, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35280/
[01:53] <Mithrandir> ogra: 13:38 < cjwatson> ogra:  -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5242936/dMEeyw0GCwPWGI2ee9VXsHPU8R3.txt (GPG verification of edubuntu-meta_1.21_source.changes failed: No public key)
[01:53] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I don't know how to reprocess stuff, so can you either tell me or just do it?
[01:53] <ogra> weird
[01:53] <mvo> Mithrandir: no, not urgent
[01:58] <cjwatson> I'll do it and then tell you, to remind myself. :)
[02:01] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: find the rejection mail in /var/mail/lp_archive, which gives you a path in /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/failed/; as lp_queue, move that directory (in this case, upload-20061204-122619-002149) and the associated .distro file into /srv/launchpad.net/ubuntu-queue/incoming/
[02:01] <cjwatson> then wait for the cron job to fire
[02:01] <cjwatson> it's worked now
[02:01] <ogra> cjwatson, was that an LP hiccup or do i have to be worried about my key ?
[02:01] <cjwatson> ogra: it was an LP hiccup; I've seen it before on occasion
[02:02] <ogra> oki, then i'm calmed :)
[02:03] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok, have you deleted the mail or am I incompetent since I don't see any edubuntu rejects?
[02:04] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: Message-Id: <20061204123208.8092341F06DB@drescher.ubuntu.com>
[02:04] <cjwatson> I didn't delete it
[02:04] <cjwatson> I would not like to imply you were incompetent ;-)
[02:07] <Mithrandir> ah, it's not a reject, it's just an error in a normal cron run
[02:07] <Mithrandir> it'd be wonderful if those were a bit easier to spot
[02:08] <seb128> mjg59: are you working on a compiz update? Somebody did an upload of 0.3.4 on REVU, I'll have a look on the update if you are not working it
[02:10] <mjg59> seb128: There's not a huge quantity of code change, and he's changed the packaging significantly
[02:10] <mjg59> I'll do an update during the week
[02:10] <seb128> mjg59: ok
[02:10] <seb128> mjg59: looks like the guy doing some coding around compiz so he might be interested to maintain it for Ubuntu
[02:11] <seb128> mjg59: maybe we should try to push him in this way? ;)
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[02:12] <mjg59> Tricky if it's likely to land in main
[02:12] <mjg59> Unless he wants to go through -core-dev
[02:12] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: yeah, that's one of the cases where nobody gets notified at the moment - the Soyuz team (arguably rightly) don't want to mail people without a GPG signature saying they can, to avoid being a spam vector
[02:12] <seb128> he can co-maintain it, I mean if he does a good job having you or some desktop team member reviewing updates and uploading should not be too much work
[02:13] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: they could mail the archive team or a special list, though.
[02:13] <cjwatson> true
[02:13] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: anyway l~bubuntu-queue/failed it is, for now.
[02:13] <Mithrandir> I'll just keep that in a screen. :-P
[02:13] <seb128> mjg59: the upload on revu creates a -dev and a -kde which seems reasonable
[02:14] <cjwatson> big pile of stuff in there at the moment; we don't check it often, afaik
[02:14] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/73955 confuses me
[02:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 73955 in console-setup "Clobbered X screen state during installation" [High,Confirmed]  
[02:15] <cjwatson> can anyone on feisty try to reproduce that by running 'consolechars -v --tty=/dev/tty1 -f /etc/console-setup/Lat15-VGA16.psf.gz' please? if it corrupts your X screen state, switching to tty1 and back should clear it up
[02:15] <Treenaks> so that's what happened!
[02:15] <cjwatson> whether you can reproduce it or not, I'd like to know which X driver you're using. I can't reproduce it here with ati
[02:16] <seb128> mjg59: anyway I'll let you deal with the update, I was just pointing that it could be nice to work with that guy if he's wanting to have a look on compiz  for Ubuntu (working on packaging or bugs, or sending patches, etc)
[02:16] <Treenaks> cjwatson: I'm using fglrx, and it happened to me during upgrade
[02:16] <cjwatson> sorry, you'll need to run that consolechars command as root
[02:16] <cjwatson> Treenaks: did switching to tty1 and back clear it?
[02:17] <Treenaks> cjwatson: yes
[02:17] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: i810 seems unaffected.
[02:18] <cjwatson> Treenaks: and can you reproduce it now with the same command? (just to confirm it's the same thing)
[02:18] <Treenaks> cjwatson: I'm not at that machine atm, but I'll try
[02:19] <Mithrandir> yay, amd64 kernels built.
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[02:30] <tepsipakki> is there a mistake with the postfix upload, latest version is -2 but it
[02:30] <cjwatson> for anyone who can reproduce the above console-setup problem: please try 'zcat /etc/console-setup/Lat15-VGA16.psf.gz > Lat15-VGA16.psf && psfstriptable Lat15-VGA16.psf > Lat15-VGA16-stripped.psf && sudo consolechars -v --tty=/dev/tty1 -f Lat15-VGA16-stripped.psf' to see if it breaks X in the same way
[02:30] <tepsipakki> darn
[02:30] <cjwatson> you may want to run 'sudo setupcon' afterwards to ensure that the console state is sane again
[02:30] <tepsipakki> is there a mistake with the postfix upload, latest version is -2 but it's waiting for deps which -1ubuntu1 got removed
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[02:32] <giskard> ogra, yes, sorry i was busy with other things, i will prepare the new deb before 6pm
[02:33] <ogra> giskard, take your time, the archive is frozen until herd1 released
[02:33] <ogra> wont happen before tomorrow i guess
[02:33] <ogra> (you can upload to the wueue indeed)
[02:33] <ogra> *queue
[02:34] <ogra> (or i can for you ;) )
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[02:40] <Riddell> StevenK, doko_, \sh: removing visibility patch from qt and recompiling it and pyqt fixes pyqt
[02:40] <seb128> ogra: why not before tomorrow!?
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[02:42] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yay!
[02:42] <ogra> seb128, because i dont expect the CD to be ready today ?
[02:43] <seb128> ogra: what is to fix?
[02:43] <cjwatson> it's waiting for a kernel build
[02:44] <cjwatson> should be ready in a couple of hours though
[02:44] <ogra> i still see some bittorrent stuff in the report.html file, dunno if thats fixed already (didnt look into it) and indeed we still have a full testing run ahead after the new kernel is in
[02:44] <seb128> that long freeze is starting becoming a pain to work with
[02:44] <cjwatson> doesn't need to be full testing for a first milestone
[02:44] <seb128> I've scp-ed 4 source packages to people today to allow other people working
[02:44] <cjwatson> "does it work at all" is enough
[02:44] <seb128> ok
[02:44] <seb128> good :)
[02:45] <ogra> right, but thats still taking at least the time for one install per arch
[02:45] <seb128> I've tried the desktop i386 CD this morning and the liveCD worked fine
[02:45] <cjwatson> and I agree we need to get out of freeze ASAP
[02:45] <ogra> right
[02:45] <Riddell> recompiling pykde fixes ubiquity
[02:46] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can I upload qt, pyqt and pykde please
[02:46] <tepsipakki> cjwatson: not that it's of great priority, but feisty-netboot went fine
[02:46] <Mithrandir> Riddell: sure.
[02:46] <cjwatson> tepsipakki: thanks
[02:46] <cjwatson> Riddell: do they need to be built in that order, or have you included tightly-versioned build-depends?
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[02:49] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you fixed pykde too?
[02:50] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: sparc too please
[02:50] <cjwatson> oh, it's done
[02:50] <Riddell> cjwatson: yes they do, I'm adding tightly-versioned build-depends
[02:50] <cjwatson> meh, having ia64 broken inconsistently will be annoying, but I guess there'll be more d-i uploads
[02:51] <Riddell> Hobbsee: just needs recompiling against a qt that doesn't use visibility=hidden
[02:51] <Hobbsee> ah
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[03:09] <jayteeuk> I realise this is a bit like asking what's the best religion, but does anyone have any suggestions for a Python newbie coming from a Java background as to what DB layer to use?
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[03:10] <jayteeuk> I've looked at PDO and SQLObject and currently prefer the latter.
[03:10] <jayteeuk> It seems to have a feel similar to EJBs with CMP.
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[03:51] <bddebian> Heya
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[03:56] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: there's another gnumeric release - do you want to take care of that?
[04:00] <dholbach> TheMuso: do we want to package lsr?
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[04:03] <dholbach> Mithrandir: do we want a ubuntu-meta update for herd-1?
[04:09] <lamont> tepsipakki: interesting... I wonder why -2 was synced from debian - it shouldn't have been
[04:10] <Mithrandir> dholbach: for which package?
[04:11] <dholbach> Mithrandir: it'd be the first upload with feisty seeds. add libnss-mdns, add linuxprinting.org-ppds afaics
[04:12] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I'd rather not, actually.  Let's try to get herd 1 out the door as fast as possible.
[04:12] <dholbach> ok
[04:18] <Riddell> cjwatson, pitti: kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes needs approval, mvo has always approved adept specs in the past, could we set him as approver?
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[04:18] <pitti> Riddell: I would be happy about it if TB agrees
[04:20] <Riddell> mdz, mjg59: ^^ 
[04:22] <pitti> ogra: do you want avahi-autoipd and libnss-mdns in edubuntu? (maybe not, since you configure a proper DHCP server)
[04:22] <pitti> Riddell: do you want avahi-autoipd and libnss-mdns in kubuntu-desktop?
[04:22] <Riddell> pitti: yes please, if you feel like doing the merge
[04:22] <pitti> I did the ubuntu.feisty seed changes and can merge them if you want
[04:23] <pitti> Riddell: I won't actually upload *-meta before herd-1, of course
[04:24] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can you approve qt3, pyqt3 and pykde?
[04:24] <pitti> Riddell: ugh, there's much more to merge, also stuff I'm not sure about
[04:24] <Riddell> pitti: just leave it then
[04:24] <pitti> ok
[04:28] <Mithrandir> Riddell: done
[04:31] <seb128> mjg59: is there anything writing the /apps/gnome-session/ubuntu/window_manager gconf key?
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[04:33] <ogra> pitti, no, i don think so ... i wanted to experiment with avahi for ltsp, but not in feisty
[04:34] <pitti> ogra: that's what I figured, thanks
[04:38] <pitti> Gloubiboulga: got a minute to talk about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeMount and XFCE?
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[04:46] <cjwatson> Riddell: I doubt mdz will have a problem with that; I've set mvo as the approver
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[04:47] <mvo> Riddell: I will try to have a look tonight, otherwise, keep kicking me (gently :)
[04:48] <Riddell> thanks cjwatson, mvo 
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[04:49] <iwj> --gst-disable-segtrap           Disable trapping of segmentation faults during plugin loading
[04:49] <iwj> Quality software!
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[04:54] <sivang> iwj: HAHA
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[05:01] <ogra> Mithrandir, cjwatson, my edubuntu-meta build vanished somewhere it seems ...
[05:01] <ogra> cant find it in the queue nor in the build logs
[05:01] <ogra> (1.21 that is)
[05:02] <cjwatson> it's still in the unapproved queue
[05:02] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: oops, I thought you approved it.  I'll do that.
[05:02] <ogra> thanks
[05:02] <dholbach> somebody please give back libgnomeui
[05:03] <cjwatson> oh, no, I just reprocessed the upload failure; sorry for not being clearer
[05:03] <Mithrandir> dholbach: done
[05:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: approved now.
[05:04] <dholbach> Mithrandir: gracias - that will help to keep random people from adding dbus-glib build-deps all over the place
[05:04] <ogra> thanks :)
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[05:04] <Mithrandir> ogra: sorry about cjwatson and me miscommunicating.
[05:04] <seb128> dholbach: please point me to people who did that ;)
[05:05] <dholbach> seb128: as I said: I did it in one place, but will revert it again ;-)
[05:05] <seb128> thank you ;)
[05:05] <cjwatson> the kernel's still going anyway, I see
[05:06] <ogra> right
[05:06] <cjwatson> heh, ia64 > i386
[05:06] <cjwatson> did vernadsky have its go-slow pills this morning?
[05:07] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: apparently.
[05:07] <Mithrandir> getting close to five hours now.
[05:08] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I've punted debian-installer into the queue; I suggest accepting that source upload once all the kernel binaries are there, just before running the publisher
[05:08] <elmo> vernadsky is one of the slower buildds
[05:08] <elmo> and ia64 has less images to build
[05:08] <cjwatson> the only reason ia64 surprised me was that i386 beat it by 50 minutes last time round
[05:08] <cjwatson> I assume it hit a faster buildd
[05:08] <elmo> yeah, it probably hit palmer
[05:09] <cjwatson> it did indeed
[05:10] <elmo> yeah, single 2.8 Xeon vs dual 3.2. and kernel is one of the few packages to take advantage of the extra CPU
[05:11] <cjwatson> 2.6.19 has never built on vernadsky before, but rothera took 5 hours
[05:11] <cjwatson> are they the same spec?
[05:11] <elmo> yes
[05:12] <cjwatson> right, so ETA half an hour or so
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[05:21] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'm going out now-ish, if you're still around when the kernel binaries are published, could you spin ISOs?  If not, I'll do it when I get back (~1900 UTC-ish)
[05:23] <jdong> Mithrandir: your frozen-bubble sync might cost me in over 6 hours of downtime today :D
[05:23] <jdong> I totally blame you :)
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[05:30] <mdz> Riddell: who's working on adept these days?
[05:31] <Riddell> mdz: nobody, but I'd plan to be the implementor for kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes
[05:36] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: sure. I have to go and order meat for Christmas dinner, but I'll be back shortly.
[05:38] <Riddell> cjwatson: kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant also needs approval, would you be able to look at it?
[05:38] <cjwatson> Riddell: will do; I've set myself as approver
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[05:44] <sven-tek> I saw there are .udeb packets in the kernel tree. Could someone point me to some place where i can get informations about .udev packets?
[05:45] <fabbione> cjwatson: while you wait for the kernel to build, can i nag you about my mdadm upload to edgy-proposed ?
[05:46] <cjwatson> sven-tek: (a) "packages" (b) be careful not to confuse udeb with udev (c) those are part of the installer; see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller, http://people.debian.org/~fjp/talks/debconf6/paper/
[05:47] <cjwatson> fabbione: yeah, I guess so, one minute
[05:47] <fabbione> cjwatson: even 4.. it's no hurry really.. i was just pinging somebody from -archive
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[05:49] <cjwatson> fabbione: somebody from -sru actually, since it hasn't yet been approved AFAICS
[05:49] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok... will do that too. thanks
[05:49] <cjwatson> do what? :-)
[05:49] <cjwatson> (I'm in ubuntu-sru)
[05:50] <cjwatson> fabbione: please undo the bug duplication as mdz suggested
[05:50] <fabbione> cjwatson: oh right.. you have too many powers.. i can't remember them all :)
[05:50] <mdz> fabbione: if the instructions are unclear, please suggest alternative wording
[05:50] <fabbione> cjwatson: yes.. will undup in a sdec
[05:51] <fabbione> mdz: i just replied to that email.. that was my understanding since one of the bugs become incredibly long
[05:51] <fabbione> (brb.. son is crying)
[05:51] <cjwatson> fabbione: can you please edit the description of 74346 to include an impact description for each of the problems? i.e. a brief description of what effect each bug has on users
[05:52] <cjwatson> fabbione: also an explanation of how this has been addressed in feisty; see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
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[05:54] <fabbione> cjwatson: feisty has the udev-mdadm spec that will replace the whole need of that scripts. but yes i can add.. it will take me a bit tho.. my little shark needs feeding first
[05:55] <sven-tek> cjwatson, thank you. i got it wrong, i thought it indicates kernel delta patches are upcoming - but udebs are used a long time now ... what a pitty ;-)
[05:55] <cjwatson> fabbione: saying that this will be addressed by udev-mdadm is fine
[05:55] <cjwatson> fabbione: what's the change that implements "make an attempt to probe raid once if no RAIDs are known to initramfs"?
[05:56] <fabbione> cjwatson: configureduuid=none
[05:56] <pirast> where's doko?
[05:56] <fabbione> it allows one iteraction in the loop
[05:58] <cjwatson> fabbione: ah, I see, looking up the context made it clearer. How does that affect systems without RAID configured but with mdadm installed?
[05:59] <fabbione> no changes...
[05:59] <fabbione> or better.. no effects
[05:59] <cjwatson> you've tested that case?
[05:59] <fabbione> yeps
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[05:59] <fabbione> the loop will go in once, attempting to start the raid. mdrun will find none and exit 0
[06:00] <fabbione> cjwatson: i changed the description. want to check if it's ok or needs more editing?
[06:00] <fabbione> (before i run to feed the shark ;))
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[06:01] <fabbione> all bugs undeped..
[06:01] <fabbione> i think i got it all
[06:01] <fabbione> the root causes were different.. same final effect.. 3 minutes waiting time at boot
[06:02] <fabbione> cjwatson: also note that packages have been tested by almost all the submitters and they reported that the new one works
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[06:06] <Riddell> sfllaw: about?
[06:07] <superm1> ping elmo 
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[06:11] <cjwatson> fabbione: more sanity-checking for mdadm/mkconf outputting ARRAY lines without UUIDs would be nice. I had a look through the source as best I could but haven't satisfied myself that that won't happen
[06:12] <cjwatson> fabbione: maybe just make the initramfs-hook grep for 'ARRAY.*UUID=' rather than just ARRAY
[06:12] <cjwatson> ^ARRAY.*UUID= rather
[06:12] <fabbione> cjwatson: raid  UUID are mandatory. the reason why we run mkconf is to make sure to have UUID.
[06:13] <fabbione> cjwatson: something that might lack when parsing an existing mdadm.conf
[06:13] <fabbione> cjwatson: the output of mkconf is standard instead
[06:13] <cjwatson> like I say, I couldn't satisfy myself that mkconf was guaranteed to do that for all RAID types. Could you add that sanity-check to keep me happy? :)
[06:13] <fabbione> cjwatson: sure i love to make you happy
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[06:14] <fabbione> cjwatson:         grep ^ARRAY.*UUID= | \
[06:14] <fabbione>  ?
[06:14] <fabbione> does that satisfy you?
[06:17] <fabbione> cjwatson: include/linux/raid$ less md_k.h  and look for uuid too.. it's a mandatory element for md super block on disk.
=== fabbione did his homework :)
[06:17] <cjwatson> fabbione: * needs to be quoted. grep '^ARRAY.*UUID=' | \
[06:17] <cjwatson> right, it's probably OK, it's just not obvious from the initramfs side and it's trivial to make it obvious
[06:18] <fabbione> cjwatson: yeps. it's there (you can reject the previous upload in the meantime)
=== cjwatson scratches his head over that sed
[06:18] <fabbione> cjwatson: stolen from mdadm 2.5 in feisty that is used to parse mdadm output properly
[06:18] <cjwatson> oh I see it's for unwrapping continuation lines
[06:18] <fabbione> yeps
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[06:18] <fabbione> and skipping comments
[06:20] <cjwatson> the last bit seems redundant with the grep, but whatever, that's not important
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[06:21] <cjwatson> fabbione: "it's there"> new upload?
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[06:22] <sfllaw> Riddell: I am.
[06:23] <Riddell> sfllaw: I was wondering if kdebase had been uploaded to edgy-updates, but it seems not, so I just uploaded it
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[06:23] <sfllaw> Riddell: Excellent!
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[06:24] <mjg59> seb128: desktop-effects
[06:24] <fabbione> cjwatson: no.. waiting for you to reject the old one
[06:24] <cjwatson> fabbione: you don't need to - please uplad
[06:24] <cjwatson> upload
[06:25] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok..
[06:25] <cjwatson> I've rejected the old one anyway, but it's not necessary to wait in this case
[06:25] <fabbione> cjwatson: done
[06:25] <fabbione> adding the new debdiff with new grep to the bug..
[06:26] <seb128> mjg59: what is the logic behind it?
[06:26] <seb128> mjg59: gnome-session is already using /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default and /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current, do we need yet another key?
[06:27] <fabbione> cjwatson: it's all done my side.. upload and so on.. anything more you need?
[06:27] <seb128> mjg59: in fact I'm switching to the gnome-wm from upstream instead of the debian variant
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[06:27] <mjg59> seb128: It is? As far as I could tell, it doesn't use either
[06:27] <cjwatson> fabbione: assuming that was the only change you made in the new upload, we should be all set
[06:27] <seb128> mjg59: Debian (and Ubuntu) patch gnome-wm to do that:
[06:28] <seb128> +# Get previously set window manager in gconf
[06:28] <seb128> +if [ ! "$DEFWM" ] ; then
[06:28] <seb128> +  DEFWM=`gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default 2>/dev/null`
[06:28] <seb128> +fi
[06:28] <seb128> +
[06:28] <seb128> and
[06:28] <seb128> +# Store the selected WM with gconf
[06:28] <seb128> +gconftool-2 -t string -s /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current "$WINDOW_MANAGER"
[06:28] <seb128> +
[06:28] <seb128> 
[06:28] <fabbione> cjwatson: no other changes.. no
[06:28] <seb128> that seems bogus to me
[06:28] <seb128> the get is on "default" and the set on "current"
[06:28] <mjg59> Yeah, the current key is never read
[06:29] <seb128> right
[06:29] <fabbione> cjwatson: i am off for a bit.. thanks a lot for your help mate..
[06:29] <seb128> but could we use that one instead of creating a new one?
[06:29] <mjg59> Ok. Drop the patch I added
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[06:29] <mjg59> Might as well keep things consistent
[06:29] <seb128> ok
[06:29] <seb128> we still have time to sort that before feisty if there is some issue anyway
[06:30] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:30] <mjg59> I'll change over desktop-effects
[06:30] <seb128> I'll ping vuntz, I would like to know why upstream is not using the gconf key
[06:30] <seb128> it's handy to be able to set the window manager to gconf
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[06:50] <dholbach> heno: heya, I had to drop the quit button patch from the feisty gnome-orca. seems that tortoise has to fix it again
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[06:54] <bronson> sabdfl said: "Shortly, we will make it easy for people to biuld their own versions of ubuntu packages, and publish those."
[06:54] <bronson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/OpenWeek_AskMark
[06:54] <bronson> What did Mark mean?  Anyone have more info?
[06:54] <jdong> bronson: I suppose that's PPA?
[06:55] <jdong> Personal Package Archives
=== bronson googles
[06:55] <jdong> what I've been told is that it's a mechanism on Launchpad for people to host APT repos
[06:55] <pitti> (and buildds)
[06:56] <bronson> Interesting.
[06:57] <bronson> Guess I won't wait for it.  :)
[06:57] <bronson> I'm off to learn reprepro.
[06:59] <jdong> bronson: smart choice on that
[06:59] <jdong> :)
[06:59] <pitti> bronson: depending on your needs, 'apt-ftparchive packages . | gzip > Packages.gz' might be easier for you
[07:00] <jdong> bronson: and dpkg-scanpackages . /dev/null | gzip > Packages.gz
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[07:00] <_ion> I find falcon incredibly nice.
[07:00] <jdong> and look, pitti beat me to it too :)
[07:00] <bronson> That doen't allow pinning, right?
[07:00] <pitti> bronson: pinning is purely on consumer's side, not on the archive's
[07:00] <jdong> bronson: bleh, you need a Release file
[07:00] <jdong> that's all that's needed for clients to be able to pin
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[07:00] <bronson> cool
[07:01] <pitti> jdong: you don't need a Release file for apt-ftparchive, and if you want one, it's trivial to generate
[07:01] <jdong> pitti: don't you need a Release file in order for clients to be able to pin?
[07:01] <pitti> ah, for pinning on release, I guess so
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[07:02] <bronson> Also, I'm looking for something that will maintain the repo behind my back.
[07:02] <jdong> lol
[07:02] <jdong> cron and a shell script :P
[07:02] <bronson> one-click upload (dput *.changes), get rid of obsolete files, etc...
[07:05] <bronson> _ion: falcon looks pretty sharp...  Is there a homepage for it?
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[07:07] <_ion> bronson: Seems like the content has disappeared from Seveas's website, but the bzr repository seems to be still there: http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/falcon/
[07:07] <Seveas> <bronson> one-click upload (dput *.changes), get rid of obsolete files, etc... <-- that is not yet implemented in falcon, but I'm working on it
[07:08] <Seveas> so if you want it *now*, look at reprepro or dak or other alternatives :)
[07:08] <LaserJock> I'm thinking dak  ;-)
[07:09] <bronson> Seveas: thanks, will do.
[07:09] <bronson> Seveas: real briefly, can you tell me how Falcon intends to be more useful than the rest?
[07:10] <Seveas> bronson, it's the easiest to use and will do more automatic magic
[07:10] <_ion> I can vouch for that.
[07:10] <bronson> brilliant.  I'll give it a closer look.
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[07:10] <heno> dholbach: that's OK. We'll try to get upstream to do the right thing this time :)
[07:11] <bronson> Active development counts for a lot too.
[07:11] <dholbach> heno: rock and roll :-)
=== dholbach hugs heno
[07:11] <Seveas> if you start using it now, beware. I'm changing large parts of it to be even easier to use/configure
=== heno hugs dholbach
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[07:12] <bronson> Sounds good to me.  :)
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[07:18] <keescook> hiya dholbach!  sounds like your your first DJ session was a hit.  :)  nice!
[07:18] <Seveas> DJ Daniel?
[07:18] <dholbach> thanks a lot Kees :-)
[07:18] <dholbach> hey Seveas
[07:18] <Seveas> hi
[07:19] <LaserJock> dholbach: I must confess I don't understand what exactly it is that you do when you DJ but it sounded exciting :-)
[07:19] <dholbach> LaserJock: it's big fun - if you make it to berlin, let me know and I'm happy to show you :-)
[07:19] <LaserJock> sure thing :-)
[07:20] <dholbach> keescook: if the mixtape tonight is good, I'll blog it and try to do so regularly :-)
[07:21] <LaserJock> we just need a Berlin UDS with an extra 2 days for such things
[07:21] <dholbach> Berlin UDS! WORD! I'm all for it :)
[07:22] <dholbach> as long as it's not somewhere in the berlinian outskirts or in berlinian airportland that would be great
[07:22] <keescook> dholbach: very cool.  I can't wait to hear it.  :)
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[08:10] <Mithrandir> jdong_: oh, because you just "happened" to start it and couldn't quit?
[08:11] <jdong_> Mithrandir: don't interrupt me. I'm on the 73rd level.
[08:11] <jdong_> :)
[08:11] <Mithrandir> :-)
[08:11] <jdong_> OOH there's a networked mode!
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[08:28] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach: I'll take care of the gnumeric update
[08:28] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: new goffice was just uploaded to incoming
[08:28] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: so that should be 'only' a merge
[08:30] <Gloubiboulga> right, 'only' :)
[08:32] <ajmitch> morning
[08:33] <keescook> hiya ajmitch 
=== dholbach hugs Gloubiboulga
[08:35] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: maybe gnumeric 1.7.4 will hit incoming soon too - I'll let you know, if you like
[08:36] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach: I'll check that, thanks
[08:36] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach: BTW, there's a small packaging bug in libxml++ (a missing .h)
[08:37] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: oh? do we have a bug about that?
[08:38] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach: not yet
=== dholbach test builds and runs dh_install --list-missing
[08:42] <dholbach> hum, I wonder where /usr/bin/aclocal comes from, installing automake1.9 doesn't give me the alternative and the symlink
[08:43] <Keybuk> it's an alternative
[08:43] <Keybuk> check it's not on manual
[08:43] <Keybuk> the "automake" alternative will set it
[08:43] <Keybuk> (it's a slave to that)
[08:43] <dholbach> "on manual"? what do you mean by that?
[08:43] <Keybuk> $ update-alternatives --display automake
[08:44] <dholbach> hm, status is indeed manual
[08:45] <dholbach> I can't remember ever having touched that on that vserver
[08:46] <dholbach> but thanks keybuk - seems it's happy now
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[08:50] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you're right, I'll upload the fix in a bit
[08:51] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach: thanks
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[09:04] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I accepted d-i a while ago, so we should have good ISOs tomorrow.
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[09:41] <Riddell> Mithrandir: not doing Herd today then?
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[09:49] <Mithrandir> Riddell: it's close to ten in the evening here, I'm not going to sit up all night testing, so no.
[09:49] <Mithrandir> Riddell: sorry. :-(  I want to end this freeze just as much as you do.
[09:50] <Burgwork> Riddell: he mostly wants to end the freeze before all the bugging ends his sanity
[09:50] <Mithrandir> Burgwork: I haven't had sight of my sanity for > six months, so I think that's a lost cause. :-)
[09:51] <Burgwork> heh
[09:53] <mdke> who needs sanity eh?
[09:53] <LarstiQ> Mithrandir: we still like you without sanity, don't worry!
[09:54] <LaserJock> I'm not sure, I like the guys spinning the .isos to be somewhat sane :-)
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[09:55] <Mithrandir> mc44: do you think we chose "herd" by chance? ;-)
[09:55] <Burgwork> it being late should have been expected, I guess
[09:56] <ajmitch> now we know that debian releases hurd cds every few months :)
[09:56] <mc44> Mithrandir: unfortunatly, I guess you choose it due to collective noun allocation :p
[09:56] <Mithrandir> it's the usual hard call of knowing when to freeze.  It's so much easier to see the right spot in retrospect.
[09:56] <Mithrandir> mc44: there are, iirc at least a couple more alternatives.
[09:57] <mc44> Mithrandir: ah yes, leash parcel and bevy. Personally I would ahvegone with bevy
[09:58] <LaserJock> sounds a little ... heavy
[09:58] <mc44> or leash :)
[09:59] <Mithrandir> mc44: the downside of not being a native english speaker is I tend to fail when it comes to knowledge such as collective nouns.
[10:00] <mc44> Mithrandir: I'm just a native english speaker with Google 
[10:00] <Mithrandir> heh :-)
[10:00] <mc44> although A murder of ravens was always my favourite
[10:01] <Mithrandir> a murder or ravens?  I thought murder only was crows?
[10:01] <mc44> bah, Im probably wrong
[10:01] <mc44> ha, an unkindness of ravens
[10:01] <mc44> not quite as bad as a murder, I suppose
[10:02] <Mithrandir> (I know it's a murder of crows, I was just surprised about it being a murder of anything else)
[10:02] <mc44> but someone clearly had a grudge against birds when it came to dishing hmouttttt
[10:02] <mc44> *them out
[10:05] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: hmm, do we need new livefs-es?
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[10:51] <umista> exit
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[10:54] <mariano> anyone familiar with launchpad-integration can tell me if these two gnome-terminal crashes are l-i's <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373488#stacktrace>, <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=382174>
[10:54] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 373488 in general "crash in Terminal: Iniciando Terminal" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  
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[11:02] <seb128> mariano: look like crash to GTK
[11:03] <seb128> mariano: feel free to close them as NOTGNOME with a comment saying to open a bug on launchpad, we will open a bug on GTK if required
[11:03] <mariano> Ok
[11:03] <mariano> that code path in gtk is quite well tested... ;-)
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[11:05] <seb128> probably
[11:05] <seb128> debug backtraces would be useful
[11:05] <seb128> we will deal with that on launchpad
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[11:12] <cjwatson_> Mithrandir: don't think so? assuming they already have initramfs-tools 0.69ubuntu25
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[11:17] <superm1> ping BenC 
[11:19] <BenC> superml: pong
[11:19] <BenC> superm1: ^^
[11:19] <superm1> hey BenC, i wanted to talk to a kernel dev about the possibility of including ivtv and lirc modules in the l-r-m pakcage
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[11:20] <superm1> and i saw your name on linux-source, so i figured you'd be a good start
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[11:20] <superm1> at least building them, similar to how vmware-modules are built during l-r-m generation
[11:20] <BenC> superm1: #ubuntu-kernel
[11:21] <superm1> k, anyone in particular to look for in there?
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[11:21] <BenC> superm1: me :)
[11:21] <superm1> hehe k
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[11:50] <HumanPrototype> cjwatson, Hi - I have been told you are a good person to talk to about ubiquity
[11:52] <HumanPrototype> cjwatson, I am trying to create a custom distro based on ubuntu and would like to stop ubiquity asking for a username and just creating a standard user called "user"
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[12:01] <keescook> HumanPrototype: have you looked at the OEM installation mode on the alternate CD?  Maybe that would help?
[12:04] <HumanPrototype> keescook, Will that allow me to create a cd which installs a system with fluxbox with several custom config files and programs? I must say I haven't looked at it at all
[12:05] <keescook> HumanPrototype: hm, perhaps not.  It's a way to create a common installed image.  Sounds like you'll have to wait for cjwatson to get back.  he's not usually up right now
[12:05] <HumanPrototype> keescook, do you know when he is up?
[12:05] <keescook> UTC 900ish maybe
[12:06] <superm1> keescook, do you work with ubiquity alot?
[12:06] <keescook> superm1: I don't, no.  Just use it a lot when doing installation testing.  :)
[12:06] <Burgwork> HumanPrototype: talk with joejaxx. He is working on fluxbox
[12:07] <HumanPrototype> Burgwork, thanks
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[12:08] <superm1> keescook, well i'm wondering how cjwatson will feel about making a ubiquity derivative for something like ubiquity-mythtv.  For feisty+1, I wanted to work on making a direct mythtv installer, and base it from that - but leave it in Ubuntu.  so that we can generate ubuntu media center or mythbuntu or something like that disks
[12:08] <superm1> before I started, I wanted to make sure cjwatson and anyone else who works with ubiquity would be cool with this idea
[12:09] <keescook> superm1: ooh, that'd rock.  I'd help test it too: my myth box is in need of upgrade.  :)  I don't know his development roadmap, though, sorry.
[12:09] <HumanPrototype> superm1, what are you thinking?
[12:10] <superm1> well i'm cleaning up the other rough edges first - firmware and drivers, and some metapackages that don't need ubuntu-desktop
[12:10] <superm1> after i finish that up, i'll have something like mythtv-master-backend
[12:10] <superm1> and mythtv-backend-frontend etc
[12:10] <superm1> so i'm thinking this installer would go right off from the get go and get you into these metapackages instead if you wanted
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