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| Burgwork | http://plugment.net/2006/12/02/setting-up-an-edubuntu-thin-client-network-in-a-community-school/ | 01:17 |
|---|---|---|
| Phoenix7477 | neat :) | 01:25 |
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| pitti | hi | 08:49 |
| _ion | Hi | 08:50 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Dec 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 12 Dec 15:00 UTC: Loco Team | 12 Dec 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | ||
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| mdz | morning | 08:54 |
| heno | morning | 08:54 |
| fabbione | morning | 08:54 |
| fabbione | mdz: i did send my update to the mailing list.. is there anything we need to talk about? otherwise i will be happy to go back in bed | 08:55 |
| Keybuk | morning | 08:55 |
| mdz | fabbione: if you are unwell then by all means go back to bed | 08:55 |
| fabbione | i still have some fever i would like to get rid of | 08:55 |
| fabbione | ok | 08:55 |
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| fabbione | mdz: if something comes up just mail me and i will look it up | 08:55 |
| === fabbione takes off again | ||
| seb128 | morning | 08:56 |
| mdz | morning seb128 | 08:56 |
| Riddell | morning | 08:56 |
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| dholbach | hey mvo | 08:57 |
| === dholbach hugs mvo as if he hadn't seen him in 10 years ;-) | ||
| mdz | cjwatson,doko,Mithrandir,sfllaw,iwj,kylem: ping | 08:58 |
| cjwatson | here | 08:58 |
| sfllaw | pong | 08:58 |
| === mvo yawns | ||
| sfllaw | It's early here too. | 08:58 |
| sfllaw | 3:00. | 08:58 |
| === pitti hugs the gang | ||
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| ajmitch | a sane time for me, and I'm not needed :) | 08:59 |
| === dholbach saw doko in #ubuntu-devel already | ||
| === pitti hugs slomo | ||
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| === sfllaw hugs pitti. | ||
| === ajmitch hugs pitti | ||
| === BenC hugs the channel | ||
| mdz | BenC: is kylem inbound? | 09:00 |
| BenC | mdz: Pinged him, but no reply...he was aware it was 3am... | 09:00 |
| sfllaw | mdz: Can I go early while I'm still mostly conscious? | 09:00 |
| BenC | I know he was on not too long ago | 09:00 |
| doko | mdz:pong | 09:00 |
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| sfllaw | Shall we call Kyle? | 09:01 |
| sfllaw | I can send him an SMS or something. | 09:01 |
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| mdz | sfllaw: if you're asking to deliver an update and then leave, then that does miss the point of attending the meeting | 09:01 |
| sfllaw | No no no. | 09:01 |
| mdz | cjwatson: heard from iwj? | 09:02 |
| mdz | ah, there he is | 09:02 |
| cjwatson | four lines up, yes :) | 09:02 |
| sfllaw | I just want to answer questions whlie still being reasonably cogent. | 09:02 |
| BenC | mdz: for a change, I'd like to be moved later so I can finish some details on my report :) | 09:02 |
| mdz | can someone chase up Mithrandir? | 09:02 |
| === pitti phones Mith | ||
| mdz | pitti: thanks | 09:03 |
| mdz | cjwatson: you're first up | 09:03 |
| === sfllaw phones up kylem. | ||
| mdz | sfllaw: thanks | 09:03 |
| pitti | Tollef will arrive any minute | 09:03 |
| cjwatson | setup-console-under-usplash: Bug 73955 appears to be graphics-card-specific and probably something wrong either in the kernel or in X. I think I've narrowed it down to one ioctl. Help? | 09:03 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 73955 in console-setup "Clobbered X screen state during installation" [High,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/73955 | 09:03 |
| cjwatson | increase-hwdb-participation: pitti, did you get a chance to look at this? | 09:03 |
| cjwatson | ubiquity-more-user-info: Punted to admin RT last night. | 09:03 |
| cjwatson | scalable-installation-testing: Provided some feedback on this with my installer hat on, as promised last week. | 09:04 |
| cjwatson | misc: Herd 1 help; installer now basically works modulo a few glitches. Ported ubiquity to the new partman-auto today, which gets rid of one of the autopartitioning pages on multiple-disk systems. Spent some time trying to cram ext2 resize_inode support into libparted so that we can resize the type of filesystem we now create by default (!), but not finished yet. Made a start on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerDevelopment (co | 09:04 |
| pitti | cjwatson: yes, I did; I have a small snippet in my report about hwdb | 09:04 |
| cjwatson | next-week: Finish first cut at InstallerDevelopment and start pushing for community involvement in installer work. Get back to ubiquity-advanced-partitioner. | 09:04 |
| cjwatson | er ... /misc/s/today/yesterday/. Yay relativity. | 09:04 |
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| mdz | cjwatson: since you've already got one item in RT, would you mind taking responsibility for chasing devel-list? | 09:04 |
| cjwatson | pitti: ok, we'll get back to it theen | 09:05 |
| cjwatson | then | 09:05 |
| cjwatson | mdz: righto | 09:05 |
| mdz | I emailed about it last week but haven't heard back | 09:05 |
| mdz | I'll forward a copy of the email | 09:05 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: I have playing with setup-console on my todo list | 09:05 |
| cjwatson | thanks | 09:05 |
| cjwatson | Keybuk: does it break for you? | 09:05 |
| mdz | cjwatson: looks like one of your lines was truncated? | 09:05 |
| Keybuk | cjwatson: it has done | 09:05 |
| cjwatson | misc: Herd 1 help; installer now basically works modulo a few glitches. Ported ubiquity to the new partman-auto today, which gets rid of one of the autopartitioning pages on multiple-disk systems. | 09:06 |
| cjwatson | Spent some time trying to cram ext2 resize_inode support into libparted so that we can resize the type of filesystem we now create by default (!), but not finished yet. Made a start on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallerDevelopment (comments welcome). | 09:06 |
| mdz | oh, barely ;-) | 09:06 |
| cjwatson | I thought 445 characters would fit but maybe not | 09:06 |
| mdz | Keybuk: could you help cjwatson by reviewing InstallerDevelopment? | 09:06 |
| Keybuk | of course | 09:07 |
| mdz | thank you | 09:07 |
| cjwatson | I know it needs more detail but I don't have perspective to know where | 09:07 |
| Mithrandir | (pong; sorry; my laptop refused to associate with my wireless and my KDC refused to speak with me (and my dog ate my homework)) | 09:08 |
| mdz | cjwatson: ok, thanks | 09:08 |
| mdz | heno: next | 09:08 |
| dholbach | Mithrandir: hehe :) | 09:08 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: so long as it didn't eat your status report also ;-) | 09:08 |
| heno | DONE: | 09:08 |
| heno | * access-gdm: Worked with artist on new High Contrast GDM theme. Discussions with GDM maintainer and MacSlow about accessible login. | 09:08 |
| heno | * common-at-conf: mock-ups of new config interface. Discussions with Gnome AT community. http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/flexi-at-conf-2.png | 09:08 |
| heno | * multilingual-speech: Decided on how to support eSpeak in Orca (write a gnome-speech driver for eSpeak). Planing a community initiative to create more/improve local language voices for eSpeak. Worked on the Norwegian voice files to learn the ropes and define the process. | 09:08 |
| heno | TODO: | 09:08 |
| heno | * access-gdm: Work out details on how to make GDM/Facebrowser accessible _without_ using AT-SPI. | 09:08 |
| heno | * color-filters: Investigate UI requirements for controlling colour filters in gnome-mag. | 09:08 |
| heno | * multilingual-speech: Complete design of the voice creation process and launch the localisation project. | 09:08 |
| heno | * General a11y testing: It seems bug 74249 has just been resolved, alowing testing with AT-SPI to proceed | 09:08 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 74249 in at-spi "Bug when we start Feisty : trouble with at-spi" [High,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/74249 | 09:08 |
| mdz | heno: weren't there a few bits of edgy a11y specs which didn't quite make the cut? | 09:10 |
| mdz | are those being carried over or abandoned? | 09:10 |
| heno | like the sudo atspi spec, that is being folded in now | 09:10 |
| heno | other thinks like spoken boot have a very low priority | 09:11 |
| heno | a very small user group and would need to be done by Luke if he wants it | 09:11 |
| dholbach | heno: for sudo atspi, I'm going to subscribe the ubuntu-a11y-devel list to the upstream bugs we're having currently | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | wg 21 | 09:11 |
| heno | sometimes things also just turn out not to be a good idea | 09:11 |
| cjwatson | (argh) | 09:11 |
| seb128 | gdm upstream just made that change: | 09:12 |
| seb128 | "Now all GDM GUI's are run as the gdm user. This change ensures | 09:12 |
| seb128 | that all GDM GUI's can talk to the at-spi-registryd that is | 09:12 |
| seb128 | running. This change involved making the forked slave talk | 09:12 |
| seb128 | to the the GDM daemon so that the dialogs can be displayed." | 09:12 |
| seb128 | not sure if that's revelant | 09:12 |
| mdz | heno: indeed, just checking. we'll review in more detail on the phone | 09:12 |
| seb128 | just mentioning it | 09:12 |
| heno | seb128: right, I wonder how well that will work in reality | 09:12 |
| mdz | seb128: sounds better than running as root | 09:13 |
| mdz | heno: ok, thanks | 09:13 |
| heno | mdz: good I'll look back at the old specs | 09:13 |
| mdz | mvo: next? | 09:13 |
| mvo | Did: | 09:13 |
| mvo | * work on the AutomaticUpgradeTesting | 09:13 |
| mvo | * LSB meeting/packaging sumit Berlin (Mo-We): | 09:13 |
| mvo | gave two presentations | 09:13 |
| mvo | * apt work: | 09:13 |
| mvo | - fix crash in pkgSrcRecords::Binaries | 09:13 |
| mvo | - fix bug in pdiff method | 09:13 |
| mvo | Will do: | 09:13 |
| mvo | - look at the AdeptFeistyChanges spec | 09:13 |
| mvo | - merges | 09:13 |
| mvo | - work on CommonCustomizations | 09:13 |
| mvo | - catchup on the BUGS | 09:13 |
| mdz | mvo: is dynamic-mirror-decisions sorted now? | 09:15 |
| mvo | mdz: sorted in what way? its approved and there is a step-by-step plan in the wiki and its approved :) | 09:15 |
| === mvo should have more tea ... writting approved twice | ||
| mdz | mvo: anything interesting at the summit? an email summary to distro-team would be appreciated | 09:16 |
| mdz | mvo: I mean incorporating the changes I requested via email | 09:16 |
| mdz | (just rescoping a bit) | 09:16 |
| doko | mvo: please drop notices when merging packages not assigned to you (generally it's welcome, but duplicating work is not) | 09:17 |
| mdz | oh, I may have sent that after you had left for the day | 09:17 |
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| mvo | mdz: the sumit was intessting, especially the lsb packaging discussion | 09:17 |
| mvo | I will send a mail | 09:17 |
| mvo | mdz: I'm not aware of the mail, but haven't looked through my inbox this morning | 09:17 |
| mvo | doko: sorry | 09:18 |
| mdz | mvo: ok, thanks. shouldn't need substantial changes just reshuffling a bit | 09:18 |
| mdz | mvo: thanks | 09:18 |
| mvo | thanks | 09:18 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: next | 09:19 |
| Mithrandir | misc: herd 1 release, archive administration | 09:19 |
| Mithrandir | network-roaming: some discussion with pitti about how it interacts with his zeroconf spec; no real progress | 09:19 |
| Mithrandir | changelog-closes-bugs: trying to convince Debian that our approach is sensible, but no other progress | 09:19 |
| Mithrandir | grub2: installed and played with grub2, it seems to work, but its hook scripts requires a bit of work. | 09:19 |
| Mithrandir | next week: more archive admin, update to new network-manager and do our changes there (per network-roaming) | 09:19 |
| Mithrandir | (oh, and I need to actually add the herd dates I discussed with Colin on the release schedule) | 09:19 |
| Keybuk | what do Debian want us to do instead? | 09:19 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: do you have a target date for herd CD 2? | 09:20 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: Guillem seems to want one syntax which is common to all cases. | 09:20 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: two week from now. | 09:20 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: please add it to the wiki schedule. I see there's a milestone in launchpad already | 09:20 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: at least I think so. That is, it will probably be after xmas since I'm going on vacation on the 19th | 09:20 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: yeah, I added the milestone so jbailey can target certification bugs to it | 09:20 |
| pitti | OMG, another herd in two weeks? that seems to consume an enormous time of work | 09:21 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: is that testing happening now? | 09:21 |
| seb128 | and again the same week as a new GNOME | 09:21 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: I've requested it, I just got in, so I'm not sure if it has actually happened yet. | 09:21 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: I'll follow that up with Jeff/cr3 | 09:21 |
| mdz | seb128: sounds like you and Mithrandir should chat about the timing | 09:21 |
| seb128 | yep | 09:22 |
| mdz | pitti: the first one is surely the hardest | 09:22 |
| pitti | although, in two weeks it's almost christmas and few people will be there for testing etc. | 09:22 |
| mdz | and it will be >2 weeks from the sound of it | 09:22 |
| cjwatson | AIUI we're going for 3 weeks normally but that collides with Christmas this time | 09:22 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: hence it might very well end up being the first week of January instead. | 09:22 |
| pitti | Mithrandir: right | 09:22 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: yeah, and we need to fudge around that somehow. | 09:22 |
| cjwatson | this one was hard because we froze too early; the installer wasn't ready yet. | 09:22 |
| cjwatson | note for future Foo 1s | 09:23 |
| Mithrandir | it's always hard to know when to freeze; much easier to see the sweet spot in retrospect. | 09:23 |
| mdz | and easier to judge when we have a todo list for next time, thanks cjwatson | 09:23 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: ok, thanks | 09:24 |
| mdz | sfllaw: next | 09:24 |
| sfllaw | ... | 09:24 |
| sfllaw | Lost paste. | 09:24 |
| mdz | sfllaw: will come back to you | 09:24 |
| mdz | Riddell: next | 09:24 |
| Riddell | done: | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * holiday | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * Herd testing | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * SRUs, universe merges, language pack testing, other odd bits | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * kubuntu-feisty-language-selector: Qt 4 port done, usability changes half way | 09:25 |
| Riddell | todo: | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * finnish kubuntu-feisty-language-selector, start kubuntu-feisty-ubiquity qt4 port | 09:25 |
| === BenC hands sfllaw some elmer's glue | ||
| Riddell | specs: | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * kubuntu-ubiquity-migration-assistant and kubuntu-feisty-adept-changes needing approval, cjwatson and mvo pinged | 09:25 |
| Riddell | other: | 09:25 |
| Riddell | * no idea what's happening with artists, sabdfl not replying | 09:25 |
| mdz | I have a call with sabdfl in <10 hours, will chase him on artwork | 09:25 |
| cjwatson | k-u-m-a is on my queue | 09:26 |
| Riddell | great | 09:26 |
| mdz | Riddell: what's the question you have for him? | 09:26 |
| cjwatson | (still) | 09:26 |
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| Riddell | mdz: if nuno and/or ken will get contracts to do artwork for feisty (as seemed to be suggested at UDS) | 09:26 |
| mdz | Riddell: universe merges? | 09:27 |
| === Fujitsu [n=william@c58-107-164-24.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| mvo | Riddell: is your language-selector branch on launchpad? | 09:27 |
| Riddell | mdz: the ones with my name on them, they all turned out to be syncs | 09:27 |
| Riddell | mvo: yes, branch is called kubuntu-feisty-language-selector | 09:28 |
| mvo | thanks | 09:28 |
| mdz | Riddell: is main all merged up now for KDE? | 09:28 |
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| Riddell | mdz: I need to check back on some stuff adept that was blocking on cmake being in main, but everything else was done before the herd freeze | 09:28 |
| mdz | Riddell: ok, thanks | 09:29 |
| mdz | sfllaw: ready? | 09:29 |
| pitti | ah, yeah, I need to do a MIR session | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | Done | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Decided on two interns, doing the paperwork for that | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Interviewed another intern | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * More SRU approvals: Kopete | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Bug triage | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * E-mail testers who volunteered to help with Herd 1. | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | To do | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * SRU: mdadm (bug 74346) | 09:29 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 74346 in mdadm "[edgy sru] multiple mdadm fixes" [High,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/74346 | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Get computers for interns | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Get interns to sign paperwork | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Bug triage | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * Wiki documentation for Ubuntu QA | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * UbuntuHugDay to get people signed into Ubuntu QA. | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | Blockers: | 09:29 |
| sfllaw | * synaptic is not ready for -proposed (bug 65553, bug 67146) | 09:29 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 65553 in synaptic "Synaptic Crashes when changing fonts" [Medium,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/65553 | 09:29 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 67146 in synaptic "synaptic pinning/locking does not work" [Medium,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/67146 | 09:29 |
| cjwatson | cmake's in main now | 09:29 |
| mdz | cjwatson: yeah, needs merging according to MOM | 09:30 |
| Riddell | cjwatson: I saw, thanks | 09:30 |
| mvo | sfllaw: I uploaded the two synaptic fixes to -proposed some time ago? | 09:30 |
| cjwatson | SRU suggestion: Simon mails ubuntu-archive@lists when verification is done? | 09:30 |
| sfllaw | mvo: I think cjwatson rejected them. | 09:30 |
| cjwatson | just off the top of my head, but might smooth the process to -updates | 09:30 |
| mvo | right, that was even more time ago, I uploaded another one | 09:31 |
| sfllaw | If you think it will help, I can do that. | 09:31 |
| mdz | sfllaw: what kind of hours are the interns putting in? I assume you'll work from the office with them? | 09:31 |
| sfllaw | Standard 9-5. | 09:31 |
| sfllaw | Monday-Wednesday. | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | sfllaw: no, they're still there | 09:31 |
| sfllaw | 15 Jan to 2 May. | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | 113267 | S- | synaptic | 0.57.11ubuntu12.1 | five weeks | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | | * synaptic/0.57.11ubuntu12.1 Component: main Section: admin | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | 137106 | S- | synaptic | 0.57.11ubuntu12.1 | nine days | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | | * synaptic/0.57.11ubuntu12.1 Component: main Section: admin | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | we need to reject one of those, yes :) | 09:31 |
| sfllaw | cjwatson: Can you and mvo work it out? | 09:31 |
| cjwatson | yes | 09:32 |
| mdz | sfllaw: do you have tasks planned for them? both bug triage and CD image testing seem like good targets | 09:32 |
| sfllaw | Thanks. | 09:32 |
| mvo | cjwatson: reject the old please (I though it was already rejected) | 09:32 |
| cjwatson | mvo: done | 09:32 |
| sfllaw | mdz: I've got two of them I'm thinking of doing bug triage and CD image testing. | 09:32 |
| sfllaw | mdz: One of them can program (!) so we were thinking of doing those automated test cases you've been bugging cr3 about. | 09:32 |
| mvo | cjwatson: thanks, if you could accept/review the other one soon, that would be great :) | 09:32 |
| cjwatson | open in my browser now | 09:33 |
| mdz | sounds like they'll miss herd 2, but you should have time to train them for herd 3 | 09:33 |
| sfllaw | They seem bright, so they should pick it up quickly. | 09:33 |
| === mvo hugs cjwatson | ||
| sfllaw | I've asked jbailey to look into buying hardware so we'll be ready for them come Januaray. | 09:34 |
| mdz | sfllaw: please make notes of their questions as they learn and use those to improve the documentation, as it's useful for the community as well | 09:34 |
| sfllaw | So I think things can go smoothly, if we are allowed to buy it. | 09:34 |
| sfllaw | mdz: I plan on making them update the wiki as they learn things. | 09:34 |
| sfllaw | :) | 09:34 |
| mdz | or that | 09:35 |
| mdz | sfllaw: thanks | 09:35 |
| mdz | kylem: next | 09:35 |
| kylem | Done | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | received core-dev status. | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | dapper-security kernel: backed out netfilter abi breaking change. | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | wrote new patch for above, sent upstream for verification. | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | sky2 backport to dapper-updates, edgy-updates. | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | tg3 backport to dapper-updates, edgy-updates. | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | fix tso support in tg3 backport. | 09:35 |
| mdz | firefox and moin hate each other | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | dapper-security, edgy-security uploaded by ben. | 09:35 |
| kylem | To do | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | forcedeth backport to dapper-updates, edgy-updates. | 09:35 |
| kylem | * | 09:35 |
| kylem | figure out why my uploads were discarded. | 09:35 |
| kylem | erk, why did that paste all wonky. | 09:35 |
| sfllaw | kylem: Thanks for responding to EtienneG's support case so quickly. | 09:36 |
| sfllaw | kylem: You copy-pasted moin's output. | 09:36 |
| sfllaw | kylem: Next time, use the "See raw text" feature. | 09:36 |
| pitti | kylem: btw, I didn't see a new dapper kernel upload yet | 09:36 |
| kylem | sfllaw, np. ah ok. | 09:36 |
| pitti | (in case it got dropped on the way) | 09:36 |
| mdz | kylem: those backports are going to -proposed rather than -updates, right? | 09:37 |
| pitti | kylem: Rejected: The key (0x7EB792DF191FCD8A) used to sign linux-source-2.6.15_2.6.15-27.50_source.changes wasn't found in the keyring(s). | 09:37 |
| kylem | pitti, heh, first i uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com by mistake, the second time i uploaded to security. and never heard back, so benc guessed something was up, i think he'll upload until i get it sorted. | 09:37 |
| cjwatson | half-hour reminder: I unfortunately need to skip out at 0905 for the school run, as Benedict needs to be at the church this morning rather than school as usual so my wife can't take him | 09:37 |
| kylem | mdz, correct, sorry, the -updates is just the tree name | 09:37 |
| mdz | understood, thanks | 09:37 |
| cjwatson | -security has separate keyrings, I believe; ping elmo to have those updated | 09:38 |
| mdz | pitti: next | 09:38 |
| BenC | pitti: I don't think his key is able to do security | 09:38 |
| mdz | cjwatson: s/elmo/RT/ surely | 09:38 |
| pitti | it should be | 09:38 |
| pitti | worked instantly for Kees, but might need check with elmo | 09:38 |
| cjwatson | mdzyeah, modern world | 09:38 |
| pitti | anyway, my report: | 09:38 |
| pitti | Done: | 09:38 |
| pitti | * merges for main: almost all done, remaining ones are hairy (apache2: infinity asked me not to merge 2.2 yet, enigmail: we have to permanently fork due to Debian's icedove madness, linux-wlan-ng: Debian has a SVN snapshot instead of stable release, have to evaluate); merge of ia32-libs has been traded with doko in exchange for php5 and gettext | 09:38 |
| pitti | * merges for universe still outstanding, but I only have a few and they look easy (mostly stuff from library transitions) | 09:38 |
| pitti | * zero-configuration-networking: added the 'ipv4ll' ifupdown method, added support for this to gnome-system-tools & friends, taught network-manager to play along with avahi-autoipd; 95% finished, have fun! the only outstanding bits are: ubuntu-meta update to bring avahi-autoipd to ubuntu-desktop, and introducing the desktop notification about a disabled avahi due to an unicast .local domain <- I'd like to discuss how that should look like with | 09:38 |
| pitti | some interested people, anyone? | 09:38 |
| pitti | * gnome-mount: added proper policy check to hal mount backend (prerequisite of starting with mount-all-local-filesystems), discussed security improvements with sjoerd; came to the conclusion that we can't do better than trusting the main hal daemon for information, so there's nothing we can improve further; remaining TODOs: discuss degnomeification with Xubuntu guys, wait for udev-device-mapper to get implemented to get mounting of encrypted d | 09:38 |
| pitti | evices right | 09:38 |
| pitti | * no work on other specs, just quickly discussed Malone cloakroom with Bjorn; it's not there yet, thus bug-reporting-tool is blocked for now | 09:38 |
| pitti | * prepared g-s-t/s-t-backends/couple of applets SRU for edgy's gnome-system-tools authentication problem, awaiting approval from mdz | 09:39 |
| pitti | * new dapper/edgy langpacks to -proposed, asked for testing feedback on -translators@; looks good so far | 09:39 |
| pitti | * misc: lots of IRC talks on fresher's day (OpenWeek was great, btw!), CD testing for herd-1 | 09:39 |
| pitti | * I looked at increase-hwdb-participation; doesn't look too complicated, I'm just swamped with specs; the notification part is a bit tricky due to the s | 09:39 |
| mdz | pitti,*: please note that cjwatson is on point for SRUs | 09:39 |
| pitti | ystem wide state, also we need to put it into some gnome package to get the i18n infrastructure for free; in fact this problem is very similar to the avahi disabling notification (mvo: I! want! event-notifier! now, now, now! ;-) ); since this isn't a prerequisite of other specs and relatively easy, is it ok to defer this a little towards end of January? | 09:39 |
| pitti | Todo: | 09:39 |
| pitti | * finish remaining bits of zero-configuration-networking implementation | 09:39 |
| pitti | * finish mount-all-local-filesystems | 09:39 |
| pitti | * next Tuesday: dapper/edgy langpacks to -updates if all goes well | 09:39 |
| pitti | * change dapper's and edgy's ~/.xsession-errors rotation handling to new plan of mdz (I'd like to discuss this again interactively, I don't really like that solution) | 09:39 |
| mdz | I'm not processing them directly atm | 09:40 |
| pitti | mdz: oh, alright | 09:40 |
| pitti | cjwatson: I added ubuntu-sru to the bug report, is that enough or should I rather mail you directly? | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | pitti: increase-hwdb-participation> I'm mostly just looking for somebody to assign it to :-) I don't mind when you schedule it provided that you can fit it in somewhere | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | ubuntu-sru's perfect | 09:40 |
| pitti | ok | 09:40 |
| Riddell | cjwatson: katapult has a patch waiting for sru btw | 09:40 |
| cjwatson | I can't use my own +subscribedbugs as a to-do list because it's too big, but I can use ubuntu-sru's | 09:41 |
| cjwatson | Riddell: noted | 09:41 |
| mdz | pitti: the zero-conf-net stuff isn't dependent on network-manager, right? | 09:41 |
| pitti | I can certainly fit it in until January, but only at the expense of cutting down on another spec | 09:41 |
| pitti | mdz: no, it isn't | 09:41 |
| pitti | I'm done with n-m for zeroconf now | 09:41 |
| mdz | but they are compatible now | 09:41 |
| pitti | and the patch wasn't really intrusive | 09:41 |
| mdz | pitti: we have a commitment from kiko to deliver the cloakroom by early January | 09:42 |
| pitti | mdz: right, n-m has its own implementation of ipv4ll address assignment, I needed to disable that | 09:42 |
| mdz | pitti: that should leave enough time to complete it for feature freeze, yes? | 09:42 |
| cjwatson | pitti: I missed your SRU because you set it to fix-committed; please leave it as in-progress at most until the -proposed upload has been accepted | 09:42 |
| pitti | mdz: yes, I hope so; and I can start early with the GUI side | 09:42 |
| cjwatson | s/you/somebody/ | 09:42 |
| mdz | pitti: ok, yes, please block only as much as necessary | 09:42 |
| pitti | cjwatson: ah, ok; still learning the optimal workflow | 09:43 |
| mdz | the SRU wiki page has been updated a bit | 09:43 |
| seb128 | pitti: bug status are documented on the wiki page now | 09:43 |
| cjwatson | we've been tuning the SRU workflow as we go | 09:43 |
| mdz | cjwatson: maybe worth emailing a summary of the diff to -devel-announce | 09:43 |
| mdz | now or once it stabilizes, or both | 09:43 |
| cjwatson | will do | 09:43 |
| mdz | pitti: thanks | 09:43 |
| mdz | BenC: next | 09:43 |
| pitti | mdz: wrt ~/.xsession-errors handling, can we have a quick discussion at the end? | 09:44 |
| mdz | pitti: with the team, or just me? | 09:44 |
| pitti | with the team preferably, to collect opinions | 09:44 |
| === juliux [n=juliux@ubuntu/member/juliux] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| BenC | :: Specs | 09:44 |
| BenC | * driver-device-manager: Had phone converstation with Keybuk to discuss the kernel/udev interface for this. Have started coding the kernel changes needed. Once that is in place, the actual UI implementation can be finished. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * driver-backports: Still in pending approval (poke mdz), but work has begun. Some of the features for this depends on the udev/kernel work for driver-device-manager (driver preference). | 09:44 |
| BenC | :: Kernel Work | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Started syncing for 2.6.20. So far merges have gone fairly well. Kernel is compiling for all architectures. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Debugging ata_piix regression on ich6 variants. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Also noticed a soft-lockup on a P4 system. Debugging is slow due to nature of bug. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Relocation of Ubuntu kernel git repo's to a single kernel-team accessible location on rookery. This will eventually be expanded to a public repository, complete with git-web access. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Intel enabling (paperwork only) | 09:44 |
| BenC | :: Work for next week | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Main priority right now is getting 2.6.20 pre kernel into feisty. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Once kernel is uploaded, move all 2.6.19 bugs to linux-source-2.6.20 and ping for revalidation. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Fix kernel regression with gdb attaching to PID's. | 09:44 |
| BenC | * Still have a few merges to take care of, but I need the kernel to settle down before I start mucking with the tools that build it. | 09:44 |
| mdz | BenC: I had a quick look at driver-backports and it needs more detail; iirc we had agreed on the specifics and they just need to be written down | 09:45 |
| Keybuk | BenC: I'm happy to trial any kernel patches you have -- as I'll need to do the udev changes | 09:45 |
| mdz | BenC: e.g. the placement of the modules and that arrangements will be made to prefer the backported ones | 09:45 |
| BenC | mdz: Ok, will get that done tomorrow | 09:45 |
| mdz | BenC: does driver-device-manager overlap with the work we discussed to allow for new PCI IDs to be added in userspace? | 09:46 |
| BenC | mdz: Yeah | 09:46 |
| BenC | it oerlaps for PCI id's and driver preference (like for driver-backports) | 09:47 |
| pitti | BenC: I need your help with apport-improvements (the core_pattern pipe fix and the core PAM limit); is it possible to cram that into your schedule? | 09:47 |
| mdz | oh, should probably be linked from driver-backports then | 09:47 |
| BenC | pitti: Sure, ping me sometime in the next couple of days, I'll make time | 09:47 |
| Keybuk | mdz: we have a master plan that allows us to fix several problems with one hefty stone | 09:47 |
| pitti | BenC: great, thanks | 09:47 |
| BenC | s/master plan/plan to take over the world/ | 09:48 |
| mdz | Keybuk: ok, I'm interested in the details via email later | 09:48 |
| mdz | BenC: thanks | 09:48 |
| mdz | seb128: nexkt | 09:48 |
| seb128 | Done: | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * GNOME 2.17.3 | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * merged GNOME packages with Debian while updating them | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * bug triage, bug triage, bug triage | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * contacted tracker upstream about package for Ubuntu, somebody is working on it for Debian and has a first set of packages available, waiting on 0.5.3 to fix some copyright issues before uploading | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * tested desktop CD candidate for herd1 | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * caught up with mails backlog | 09:48 |
| seb128 | . | 09:48 |
| seb128 | Next week: | 09:48 |
| seb128 | * bug triage, bug triage, bug triage | 09:49 |
| seb128 | * get tracker uploaded | 09:49 |
| seb128 | * keep doing merges with Debian | 09:49 |
| seb128 | . | 09:49 |
| seb128 | Note: | 09:49 |
| seb128 | * The one week freeze has been annoying to work with, especially because "apt-get source" gives outdated packages during a freeze (somebody might have already done work on the same package and you doesn't get that version), could we freeze binaries instead of sources or make sources available from somewhere during a freeze? | 09:49 |
| mdz | seb128: just the few merges listed on MOM remaining for main? | 09:49 |
| seb128 | yep | 09:49 |
| seb128 | cairo is blocked on directfb (BenC should do it) | 09:50 |
| mdz | seb128: any leads on that bug we were chasing yesterday with gnome-session? | 09:50 |
| mdz | bug(s) that is | 09:50 |
| seb128 | not yet, I've been sleeping mostly since | 09:50 |
| cjwatson | I'd be happy with the UNAPPROVED queue being fetchable by people on the team who can upload to it | 09:50 |
| mdz | seb128: you mean you stop when you sleep? ;-) | 09:50 |
| cjwatson | unfortunately Soyuz can't do queue fetching through the web UI at all yet | 09:50 |
| seb128 | mdz: euh .. that's it ;) | 09:50 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: as part of development freezes, we could rsync it somewhere and run apt-ftparchive over it? | 09:50 |
| Mithrandir | like, rookery. | 09:50 |
| Mithrandir | as a workaround. | 09:51 |
| cjwatson | Mithrandir: would be fine by me. Care to hack it up? | 09:51 |
| Mithrandir | cjwatson: will do. | 09:51 |
| mdz | seb128: freezing binaries only sounds interesting, but presumably would require LP implementation work | 09:51 |
| pitti | that would rock indeed | 09:51 |
| mdz | Keybuk: can MOM pay attention to unapproved as well? | 09:51 |
| pitti | I think an apt-ftparchive'd unapproved deb-src queue would be enough for most purposes, at least for me | 09:51 |
| Keybuk | mdz: provided there's an APT archive for it, sure | 09:51 |
| pitti | seb128: ^ what do you think? | 09:52 |
| seb128 | I would like to get builds keep going if possible | 09:52 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: given that unapproved doesn't have binaries, just sources, it'd be a sources-only thing, yes. | 09:52 |
| seb128 | that would avoid having a massive building of everything after unfreezing | 09:52 |
| mdz | seb128: I think that would need to be implemented in soyuz | 09:52 |
| cjwatson | it would, and it's tricky from an archive admin point of view too | 09:52 |
| seb128 | but having sources available would be a really good start | 09:52 |
| mdz | seb128: have a chat with infinity about it and see, but I think it will be a long way off | 09:52 |
| cjwatson | easier to let through sources in one go than binaries (which arrive in dribs and drabs over time) | 09:53 |
| seb128 | that would avoid conflicting on work | 09:53 |
| seb128 | mdz: ok | 09:53 |
| Mithrandir | Mark has spoken about being able to do short-lived pockets or branches or writable snapshots or what you'd call it to ease this pain, but we won't see it in the near future, I believe. | 09:53 |
| mdz | seb128: thanks | 09:53 |
| mdz | dholbach: next | 09:53 |
| dholbach | Done: | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * GNOME 2.17.3 (most of it) | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * merges | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * trying to catch up with bugs | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * art-builder-improvements: deployed and announced art-builder (half way through high-prio items) | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * feisty-telepathy: no efforts from the team on landell and teletpathy-wildy yet, seems I have to do it myself | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * some motu mentoring | 09:53 |
| dholbach | Todo: | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * trying harder to catch up with bugs | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * more merges | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * fix some issues with the art builder | 09:53 |
| dholbach | * motu documentation clean up, organisation | 09:53 |
| dholbach | 09:53 | |
| sfllaw | dholbach: Your MOTU/SRC work has been good. | 09:53 |
| seb128 | dholbach: "most of it", heh, I did some too :p | 09:53 |
| === sfllaw hugs dholbach. | ||
| mdz | dholbach: anyone using the art builder now? | 09:54 |
| mdz | sfllaw: SRC? | 09:54 |
| sfllaw | SRU. | 09:54 |
| sfllaw | Sorry. | 09:54 |
| mdz | ah | 09:54 |
| dholbach | mdz: somebody signed up for the team and needs a helping hand | 09:54 |
| dholbach | but that's just one | 09:54 |
| dholbach | I'll talk to James Troy about it | 09:54 |
| dholbach | sfllaw: I'm don't do the actual work on the motu-sru team - I "just" helped to put the team of people together | 09:55 |
| mdz | dholbach: also make sure sabdfl knows it is ready for use, he'll help spread the word | 09:55 |
| dholbach | mdz: alrighty | 09:55 |
| mdz | dholbach: thanks | 09:55 |
| mdz | iwj: next | 09:55 |
| dholbach | seb128: I know you did - I should have said "we're mostly through now - everybody give seb128 a big hand" :-) | 09:55 |
| iwj | Done: | 09:55 |
| iwj | udev-lvm: read the code in lvm2 and also got to grips with udev (of which I was previously ignorant). Installed and broke feisty a few times (mainly by playing with partitions). Half-done. | 09:55 |
| iwj | GnomeAppInstallCodecs: looked at various packages including codecs etc. so I know where to change things. This is now blocked on new feature for gst-inspect. | 09:55 |
| iwj | Will do next week: | 09:55 |
| iwj | udev-lvm: Finish it off although integration testing will have to wait. | 09:55 |
| iwj | consistent-login-screen: need to read the code and play with gdm et al to make sure there aren't any hidden gotchas | 09:55 |
| iwj | package-dependency-field-breaks: rerun my search for candidates and send an announcement too, to get people to start using it | 09:56 |
| iwj | winmodem-support: read up on what's available and decide what to do for feisty | 09:56 |
| iwj | I'm on holiday starting from the 14th and will be back on the 2nd. | 09:56 |
| seb128 | dholbach: I'm scared by your big hand :p | 09:56 |
| iwj | seb128: Do you think you could pass me some contact details for the gstreamer guys ? I feel a bit out of the loop, having to send mails via you (who are busy) etc. | 09:56 |
| mdz | iwj: udev-lvm says Not started in LP | 09:56 |
| iwj | Oh, I haven't been setting the implementation status in LP. | 09:57 |
| iwj | I should have done that for this meeting. Sorry. | 09:57 |
| seb128 | iwj: ups, sorry I didn't reply to your mail yet, I've been catching up with old mails and not looked at new ones yet | 09:57 |
| seb128 | iwj: #gstreamer guys are responsive and nice usually | 09:57 |
| iwj | seb128: Fair enough, thanks. | 09:57 |
| iwj | Noted. | 09:57 |
| cjwatson | iwj: a reminder to -devel-announce that Breaks is ready for use might not hurt | 09:57 |
| mdz | seb128: the guy from UDS who was working on it went on holiday | 09:57 |
| mdz | I think he's back around ow | 09:57 |
| iwj | cjwatson: Yes, exactly. | 09:57 |
| cjwatson | with a description of when one might want to use it | 09:58 |
| cjwatson | oh, "send an announcement" | 09:58 |
| seb128 | mdz: right, I know, you forwarded me that mail ;) | 09:58 |
| cjwatson | sorry, I can't read at 9am apparently | 09:58 |
| mdz | iwj: please update the status on automated-testing-deployment as well | 09:58 |
| seb128 | speaking about break, does apt manages it? | 09:58 |
| iwj | mdz: Willdo. | 09:58 |
| mdz | seb128: and you read it better than I did ;-) | 09:58 |
| iwj | seb128: Yes. | 09:58 |
| seb128 | I used Breaks for the e-d-s update | 09:58 |
| seb128 | and apt-get -f install was not able to remove the old evolution | 09:58 |
| Keybuk | seb128: talking of which, that's stuck on hold for me <g> | 09:58 |
| seb128 | it was just complaining about the break | 09:59 |
| cjwatson | Breaks isn't supposed to cause removal ... | 09:59 |
| seb128 | hum | 09:59 |
| cjwatson | it causes deconfiguration | 09:59 |
| seb128 | I did dpkg -i new_eds | 09:59 |
| seb128 | and I was expecting apt-get still working then | 09:59 |
| mdz | it should only deconfigure temporarily | 09:59 |
| seb128 | but it didn't | 09:59 |
| iwj | Let's take that offline. | 09:59 |
| seb128 | ok | 09:59 |
| mdz | yes | 09:59 |
| mdz | iwj: thanks | 09:59 |
| mdz | Keybuk: next | 09:59 |
| Keybuk | Done: | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - couple of days holiday | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - started work on upstart changes needed for feisty | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - some landscape trialling | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | Todo: | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - pretty much everything else ;) | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - holiday from 18th thru 2nd (yay using up leave allowance) | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | Specs: | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - udev-device-mapper, udev-evms, udev-mdadm: not started yet, will be much easier to test once some of the upstart bits are in place | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - slick-boot: Colin's done the console changes, need to test those and make any adjustments necessary | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - replacement-initscripts: needs upstart changes. which have begun | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - new-pci-ids: having discussions with Ben about fixing the world to make this possible | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - accelerated-x: hijacked as discussed with mdz | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | - automake-transition: implemented | 10:00 |
| === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| mdz | Keybuk: how much more of slick-boot is feistyable? | 10:00 |
| Keybuk | mdz: it's a no-op spec | 10:01 |
| mdz | since that's an overview spec iirc, it's not entirely clear how it's targeted | 10:01 |
| Keybuk | right | 10:01 |
| Keybuk | it's mostly just "do what we were doing anyway" | 10:01 |
| Keybuk | Colin's console-setup changes should be the bulk of it | 10:01 |
| mdz | Keybuk: and it's still pending approval; pinged sabdfl? | 10:02 |
| Keybuk | mdz: yeah | 10:02 |
| Keybuk | tbh, I'm not too worried; the "real" spec is approved <g> | 10:02 |
| mdz | ok | 10:02 |
| mdz | Keybuk: thanks | 10:02 |
| mdz | doko: next | 10:02 |
| doko | - ill for two days | 10:02 |
| doko | - merges and sync requests for main (mostly finished) | 10:02 |
| doko | - openoffice.org for edgy-proposed | 10:02 |
| doko | - lsb face to face meeting; the agenda was changed, so I did miss | 10:02 |
| doko | the discussion about python in lsb; joined the discussion about | 10:02 |
| doko | C++ / libstdc++ in LSB. | 10:02 |
| doko | - no specific progress on specs, python-roadmap needs to be reviewed again. | 10:03 |
| doko | - priority for next week: prepare change to python2.5 as the default | 10:03 |
| mdz | cjwatson: that reminds me, what was the story with gnome-btdownload? | 10:04 |
| mdz | the seed bzr log seemed to imply that it had an alternative dependency on python2.5, but I didn't see one | 10:04 |
| cjwatson | doko: the reason I thought python-support was being dropped on the floor was chiefly that the spec mentions python-central but not python-support (plus what you told me in the lift) | 10:04 |
| cjwatson | mdz: that dependency is from bittorrent | 10:04 |
| mdz | ah, I see | 10:04 |
| cjwatson | mdz: bug 74514 is the story | 10:04 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 74514 in germinate "doesn't handle versioned dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/74514 | 10:04 |
| mdz | thanks | 10:04 |
| mdz | oh, saw that bit, yes | 10:05 |
| doko | cjwatson: yeah, I need to be more specific about the implementation as well, therefore I splitted it out | 10:05 |
| mdz | but didn't see the corresponding dependency | 10:05 |
| mdz | doko: feeling better now? | 10:05 |
| doko | mdz: yes, thanks :) still on drugs | 10:05 |
| cjwatson | it should go away naturally once we switch to python2.5, although I wouldn't mind taking the opportunity to fix the bug while it's still manifest | 10:05 |
| cjwatson | if I feel the urge today I'll poke at it | 10:05 |
| mdz | doko: ok, thanks | 10:06 |
| mdz | any further status updates? | 10:06 |
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| cjwatson | have to go now, will read the meeting log when I get back | 10:06 |
| mdz | pitti wanted to have a quick discussion about ~/.xsession-errors; if you don't have strong opinions on that and it's late at night for you, you're excused | 10:06 |
| sfllaw | Can I ask everyone to put their status updates on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelTeamMeeting20061207 page? | 10:06 |
| sfllaw | Just for summary purposes? | 10:06 |
| sfllaw | Thanks. | 10:06 |
| pitti | will do | 10:06 |
| mdz | pitti: go ahead | 10:07 |
| pitti | so, I have a small snippet for that: | 10:07 |
| pitti | The issue is about bug 60448; we need to make our handling of ~/.xsession-errors consistent | 10:07 |
| pitti | - gdm has always just removed the entire file on login | 10:07 |
| pitti | - with kdm/xdm, dapper did never remove/truncate the file, which caused disk space DoS with programs where logging has gone wild | 10:07 |
| pitti | - in edgy, we mitigated that by truncating the file to .5 MB on login | 10:07 |
| pitti | - mdz proposed to change that fix in edgy to mv the file to .old and rm the .old file, and do the same in dapper; it is more consistant with what we do in /var/log, but my objectio | 10:07 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 60448 in xinit ".xsession_errors file grows out of control & saturates disk space" [High,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/60448 | 10:07 |
| pitti | n is that this would make the 'full disk' problem worse, not better for the next login attempt (i. e. it takes two logins to clean up) | 10:07 |
| BenC | good night everyone | 10:07 |
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| mdz | if the disk is quite full, then attempting to copy part of the file will fail | 10:08 |
| pitti | so we should agree to one strategy of handling the file and implement it consistently across all *dms and releases | 10:08 |
| mdz | we rotate all other logs by renaming, and it's nice and simple, so that's my preference | 10:08 |
| mdz | rotating it should prevent it from ever filling the disk in the first place | 10:08 |
| pitti | the problem in that bug was that someone never really logged out | 10:09 |
| mdz | any opinions from the crowd? | 10:09 |
| iwj | mdz: No, he means if some program goes mad and spews crap until the disk gets full. | 10:09 |
| pitti | so none of this is an actual solution to that, but it should clean up itself with a session restart | 10:09 |
| mdz | iwj: in that case, renaming is still OK, since it will clobber .old and free enough space to login | 10:10 |
| pitti | I think we can solve the 'disk space for temporary truncated file' problem, if we want to do that | 10:10 |
| iwj | I think if the log is too big (whatever that means) then just truncating it is probably fine. | 10:10 |
| mdz | I ack that it's sub-optimal that the rotation is not time-limited | 10:10 |
| Burgundavia | is there anything of value in .xsession-errors to both to keep it around? it seems mine is filled with noise from various apps, something I know people have complained about in the past | 10:11 |
| pitti | syslogd has this nice thing of 'previous msg repeated n times', but hard to do that for ~/.xsession-erors | 10:11 |
| pitti | since there is nothing in between to filter | 10:11 |
| pitti | I'm actually fine with gdm's behaviour, it causes least clutter | 10:11 |
| Mithrandir | Burgundavia: yes. | 10:11 |
| pitti | and adding a new file to the user's ~ makes me a bit nervous | 10:11 |
| pitti | (adding the .old file) | 10:11 |
| Burgundavia | Mithrandir: ok, just wondering (that was comment from the crowd) | 10:12 |
| iwj | You need to be able to log in and find out why your last session went west. | 10:12 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: I'm quite happy with the "grab the last half megabyte of the old one and put that into the new one" | 10:12 |
| Mithrandir | (or 100k or whatever) | 10:12 |
| pitti | ^ I prefer that, too, it would avoid a new file and clean things up at the next session restart (not just at the 2nd after the next one fails) | 10:13 |
| seb128 | Burgundavia: new bug-buddy includes recent entries from .xsession-errors to crashes sent | 10:13 |
| pitti | and logging in twice wouldn't loose all the previous logs | 10:13 |
| pitti | ^ which double-rotation would do | 10:13 |
| iwj | If the disk is full then you can't sensibly rewrite the file. | 10:13 |
| mdz | pitti: does this also mean that gdm would continue to clobber the file? it's useful to have the last session for debugging as iwj says | 10:14 |
| pitti | iwj: we can if we read the last .5 MB into a variable or a file in /tmp | 10:14 |
| Mithrandir | iwj: sure you can. Read in the last half megabyte, delete the file, write it out again. | 10:14 |
| pitti | mdz: the fix for gdm would be to disable the code that rm ~/.xsession-errors | 10:14 |
| Mithrandir | iwj: if you don't have half a megabyte of memory to spare at login time, your desktop is going to suck anyway. | 10:14 |
| iwj | Mithrandir: I suppose it doesn't have to be reliable :-). | 10:14 |
| pitti | reading into a variable drops 0 bytes, but oh well | 10:14 |
| mdz | please don't read 500k into a shell variable | 10:15 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: sponge ftw. | 10:15 |
| pitti | but reading into a file in /tmp should do | 10:15 |
| pitti | oh, argh, we don't install separate /home by default | 10:15 |
| iwj | I think you should do this truncation to .0 after running savelog, though. | 10:15 |
| pitti | so, memory, I guess | 10:15 |
| iwj | That way each session gets its own log, etc. | 10:15 |
| mdz | pitti: I suggest mailing technical-board; if you can get signoff on the actual code by two TB members, then I concede | 10:15 |
| pitti | iwj: too much clutter in the home directory for my taste | 10:16 |
| pitti | mdz: oh, I don't think that the current code DTRT | 10:16 |
| iwj | You're complaining about clutter in ~ ? I think you're two decades too late for that, at least ... | 10:16 |
| pitti | iwj: rotating logs in ~ is something new, I think | 10:16 |
| iwj | We could make a subdir for them if you really want. | 10:17 |
| pitti | hm, I don't want to keep you guys from breakfast/sleep any longer, so maybe we should discuss it at -devel@ | 10:17 |
| mdz | pitti: just clarifying that the implementation needs signoff as well as the design | 10:18 |
| pitti | I summarize the various options and their pros/cons | 10:18 |
| pitti | mdz: understood | 10:18 |
| pitti | ok, thanks for the feedback so far, I'll sumarize on the ML | 10:19 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Dec 22:00 UTC: Kubuntu | 12 Dec 15:00 UTC: Loco Team | 12 Dec 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | ||
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| BlueT_ | @schedule taipei | 01:43 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Asia/Taipei: 08 Dec 06:00: Kubuntu | 12 Dec 23:00: Loco Team | 13 Dec 00:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 20:00: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 00:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 20 Dec 04:00: Technical Board | 01:43 |
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| juliux | @schedule berlin | 01:55 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 07 Dec 23:00: Kubuntu | 12 Dec 16:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 17:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 13:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 21:00: Technical Board | 01:55 |
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| gnomefreak | @schedule new_york | 02:36 |
| Ubugtu | Schedule for America/New_York: 07 Dec 17:00: Kubuntu | 12 Dec 10:00: Loco Team | 12 Dec 11:00: Community Council | 13 Dec 07:00: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 15:00: Technical Board | 02:36 |
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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Kubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 12 Dec 15:00 UTC: Loco Team | 12 Dec 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 13 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 14 Dec 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 19 Dec 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | ||
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| nixternal | yay | 10:58 |
| Lure | hi | 10:58 |
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| Lure | hi toma | 10:59 |
| Riddell | evening all | 10:59 |
| toma | evening all | 10:59 |
| nixternal | hmm. i see some unable to fetch with my last apt-get | 10:59 |
| mhb | good evening | 10:59 |
| nixternal | 4pm here, so i guess it is close enough. evening to you all as well | 10:59 |
| Riddell | agenda is at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings | 11:00 |
| raphink | hop | 11:00 |
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| nixternal | hiya raphink ! | 11:00 |
| raphink | hi | 11:00 |
| === nixternal throws raphink some <>< love and joy | ||
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| raphink | thanks nixternal M0 | 11:01 |
| raphink | :) | 11:01 |
| nixternal | hehe | 11:01 |
| Tonio_ | hi all | 11:01 |
| Riddell | so, let's get started | 11:02 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: just uploaded exiv2 0.12 and upgraded digikam to 0.9-rc2 | 11:02 |
| Tonio_ | fyi ;) | 11:02 |
| Riddell | oh groovy, whatever exiv2 is | 11:02 |
| Lure | Tonio_: great! | 11:02 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: lib required by the latest digikam | 11:02 |
| nixternal | lol | 11:02 |
| Riddell | Lure: your item | 11:02 |
| toma | one sec allee is here | 11:02 |
| Lure | Should we upload new kubunut-default-settings to remove /.hidden for edgy-proposed/-updates to match fix already in feisty | 11:02 |
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| raphink | hi allee | 11:03 |
| toma | allee: we just started: [23:05:27] <Lure> Should we upload new kubunut-default-settings to remove /.hidden for edgy-proposed/-updates to match fix already in feisty | 11:03 |
| Riddell | Lure: I doubt this falls into any of the categories of StableReleaseUpdates | 11:03 |
| allee | hi all | 11:03 |
| allee | thx for info | 11:03 |
| Lure | lots of complaints on kubuntu-users and irc regarding this, so I think it is good canddiates for stable release update | 11:03 |
| Riddell | and SRUs seem not to be being processed just now | 11:04 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: in the meantime, people "know" that edgy is experimental | 11:04 |
| Lure | Riddell: it impacts lots of users with what they consider usability constraint, fix is simple and non-risky | 11:04 |
| toma | Lure: that means all folders on the / are visible again? | 11:04 |
| Lure | toma: yes - already done for feisty | 11:04 |
| Tonio_ | toma: that's the idea yes | 11:04 |
| Riddell | but if you want to try and get it through the process then please do | 11:05 |
| toma | Lure: doesn't that undermine the thought of the whole excersise? | 11:05 |
| Riddell | toma: we keep .hidden in /media, but users don't actually get pointed to / | 11:05 |
| Lure | toma: yes, this was discussed on UDS-MTV and seele convinced us... | 11:05 |
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| toma | Riddell: ok, i can understand that | 11:06 |
| Lure | Riddell: so no objection to try to push it? Then I will prepare bug with reasoning and patch | 11:06 |
| Riddell | Lure: yes, I'll support you if you want to try and push that through | 11:07 |
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| allee | Lure: okay from my side | 11:07 |
| raphink | what is the bug with .hidden exactly? | 11:07 |
| Lure | raphink: you only see /home and /media on / | 11:07 |
| allee | Lure: and /afs ;) | 11:07 |
| Riddell | raphink: if you want to open a file in /usr or the like it's hard to find it | 11:07 |
| raphink | ok | 11:07 |
| toma | (i love it btw) | 11:07 |
| raphink | ic | 11:07 |
| Lure | raphink: we thought that this is good idea for edgy, but people complain and usability guys do not like it either | 11:08 |
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| raphink | right | 11:08 |
| raphink | and it doesn't break anything to have rollback on it | 11:08 |
| Riddell | toma: your item next | 11:08 |
| Lure | toma: your topic is next | 11:08 |
| toma | okay, well i saw the blog about using poppler in kpdf | 11:09 |
| toma | and i wondered if that is still a good thing or not | 11:09 |
| jenda | Hello folks | 11:09 |
| Riddell | hi jenda | 11:09 |
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| Tonio_ | hello jenda | 11:09 |
| Riddell | toma: you'll have a hard time convincing the security team to revert that | 11:09 |
| Riddell | maintaining multiple copies of xpdf is just something we don't have time for | 11:10 |
| Riddell | and other distros use our poppler patch too | 11:10 |
| allee | Riddell: who maintains this fork? | 11:10 |
| toma | that was what i wanted to ask | 11:10 |
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| Riddell | well, Gentoo does at least | 11:10 |
| toma | Riddell: did you look at the printing problem? | 11:10 |
| Riddell | allee: pitti wrote it, I keep it up to date with new releases | 11:11 |
| Riddell | toma: no, I havn't | 11:11 |
| allee | ah, okay | 11:11 |
| Riddell | although I've never had a problem printing PDFs myself | 11:11 |
| Riddell | but it's not something I do much | 11:11 |
| Tonio_ | toma: I tested quickly today and haven't been able to reproduce.... preview print works here | 11:11 |
| toma | thanks all. Okay, lets move on | 11:11 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I think the issue reported concerns the preview, not the printing itself | 11:12 |
| toma | easy to test | 11:12 |
| Riddell | I should look at it, but it sounds complex | 11:13 |
| Riddell | for feisty+1 we'll hopefully be using okular and the problem will go away | 11:13 |
| toma | true | 11:13 |
| Riddell | mhb: your item | 11:14 |
| mhb | Should we include a tool for setting up synaptics-like mice (touchpads etc.) in Kubuntu Feisty? If so, what should be modified in Ksynaptics to make it Kubuntu-friendly? | 11:14 |
| Riddell | I have no touchpad, so I don't care :) | 11:14 |
| nixternal | haha | 11:14 |
| toma | hehe | 11:14 |
| mhb | Some of it is answered by the KubuntuFeistyLaptop spec, but Tonio wanted to discuss it anyway | 11:14 |
| Tonio_ | I think we should remove autolaunch, and replace it by a script | 11:14 |
| Tonio_ | to start it only if a launchpad is detected | 11:14 |
| Tonio_ | I have to find a way to detect a touchpad is there | 11:15 |
| Riddell | but if it's hidden under Keyboard & Mouse in system settings I don't mind | 11:15 |
| Tonio_ | should be easy by checking the synaptic module | 11:15 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: you would only put it in systemsettings ? I'm fine with this too | 11:15 |
| Lure | Tonio_: that was plan (under Keyboard & Mouse) | 11:15 |
| Tonio_ | I'll do that, and the main inclusion and everything required, no pb | 11:16 |
| Riddell | I don't want it sitting in the systray | 11:16 |
| Lure | Tonio_: I am just not sure if we can fix auto-start | 11:16 |
| allee | AFAIR there also a security subject involved. Access to some shmem or whatever to apply changes during runtime | 11:16 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: bah it will if you start it via systemsettings | 11:16 |
| Riddell | oh, that's evil | 11:16 |
| Lure | allee: this might complicate main inclusion... | 11:16 |
| allee | What is ubuntu doing? | 11:16 |
| Tonio_ | allee: hum, indeed........ | 11:16 |
| Tonio_ | allee: I need to investigate this, since that'll make the main inclusion impossible | 11:17 |
| mhb | allee: I'm not sure that they have something to manage that | 11:17 |
| Riddell | allee: nothing as far as I know, everything should all work out the box | 11:17 |
| Lure | Riddell: tray icon is ok if we do not auto-start (it is user's choice) | 11:17 |
| fabo | mhb: they don't use gsynaptics ? | 11:17 |
| Riddell | Lure: if they start it manually sure, but if it starts when you load it in system settings that's evil too | 11:17 |
| mhb | fabo: not present on my edgy machine w/ ubuntu-desktop so I guess not in Edgy at least | 11:18 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: well some touchpads are not detected correctly, I had the issue on my previous HP laptop | 11:18 |
| === Riddell not a fan of excessive systray usage | ||
| mhb | mine is not detected correctly, for instance | 11:18 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: well I think we can hide the icon, so if that is possible I will force the default via kds | 11:18 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: yep, that's why it's ok if it's available, but not getting in the way | 11:18 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: yes, I see your point | 11:19 |
| mhb | I think ksynaptics would also need some UI polishing | 11:19 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I'll investigate the security part and do the implementation | 11:19 |
| Tonio_ | mhb: definitly, yes, but it is the only available tool afaik | 11:19 |
| fabo | Tonio_: atm, xorg need manual editiong no ? | 11:19 |
| allee | bit when ksynaptics is only needed in rare circumstances, why put it in main? | 11:19 |
| fabo | xorg conf. | 11:19 |
| Tonio_ | fabo: nope, the synaptic driver has external config files in ~ | 11:20 |
| allee | fabo: or pull ksyn. from universe | 11:20 |
| Riddell | allee: if people need it, we should let them have it | 11:20 |
| mhb | allee: well you can fine-tune the touchpad with it | 11:20 |
| Tonio_ | allee: why ? because I had HARD time to find that | 11:20 |
| === kdw_ [n=kdw@c-67-164-4-24.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| Tonio_ | my first thing when it happened was to check in systemsettings, which makes sense | 11:21 |
| Lure | allee: point is to find it in System settings if they have problems | 11:21 |
| mhb | Tonio_: same by me | 11:21 |
| Tonio_ | allee: and it is very little package, mostly hidden deeply in systemsettings, that will not bother joe user | 11:21 |
| allee | FWIW: the only real reason we needed something like this was that touchpad and track(?) stick had totally different accerealtions. and ksynaptics did not help here | 11:21 |
| Riddell | speaking of which, we need someone to own the system settings changes in feisty | 11:22 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: Riddell talking about you :) ^^ | 11:22 |
| Lure | Tonio_: where? ;-) | 11:22 |
| Tonio_ | seriously, I am not capable of doing this... | 11:22 |
| allee | Tonio_: I've fine with inclusion if pitti is fine with it ;) But don't forget in 80% here kubuntu runs on desktop not laptop, so if it get's in main it should only run when necessary | 11:23 |
| Riddell | allee: absolutely | 11:23 |
| Tonio_ | allee: absolutly agree | 11:23 |
| mhb | allee: yes, Tonio_ mentioned it | 11:23 |
| Tonio_ | that's why it'll feet silently in systemsettings | 11:23 |
| Riddell | let's move on | 11:24 |
| Riddell | thanks for taking that up Tonio_ | 11:24 |
| Riddell | your item | 11:24 |
| Tonio_ | okay | 11:24 |
| Tonio_ | I spent the day on opensuse, and I must say I am in love with that kickoff thing | 11:24 |
| Tonio_ | I would like to give it a try for feisty | 11:25 |
| Riddell | (I thought you were engaged to another...) | 11:25 |
| toma | Tonio_: screenie? | 11:25 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: lmao ^ ;) | 11:25 |
| Tonio_ | toma: yes just a second | 11:25 |
| Lure | Tonio_: I also have opensuse 10.2, but my experience is not that positive with kickoff - but I am fine if it is not default | 11:25 |
| toma | http://en.opensuse.org/Kickoff | 11:25 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: can it be separated from beagle? | 11:25 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I think yes | 11:25 |
| Lure | Tonio_: can it be optional? | 11:26 |
| Riddell | I'd like seele's feedback on it, she's been looking into k-menu stuff | 11:26 |
| toma | i think a menu with a search bar is bad design | 11:26 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: on opensuse it is, so I assume yes | 11:26 |
| Lure | Tonio_: I hate scroll-bars on it... | 11:26 |
| toma | but maybe it is my twisted mind | 11:26 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: scrollbars ? | 11:26 |
| nixternal | Kickoff is cool, however can we replace "My Computer" with something else. That is a little to much Microsoft sounding :) | 11:27 |
| === Tonio_ doesn't remember scrollbars | ||
| Lure | Tonio_: but it is snappy and good looking, just usability is not polished yet (imho) | 11:27 |
| Lure | Tonio_: it is fixed size, so if you have more items you get scroll-bars | 11:27 |
| Tonio_ | well I jsut said "give a try" ;) | 11:27 |
| toma | can we make a package so we can test it ? | 11:27 |
| Tonio_ | then once we have it in kubuntu we can decide what to do | 11:27 |
| toma | or is that a lot of work? | 11:27 |
| fabo | Tonio_: have you already checked the code ? | 11:27 |
| === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| Tonio_ | fabo: I think it is a HUDGE patch to kdebase in fact :) | 11:28 |
| Lure | toma: afair, imbrandon said it is all over kdebase/libs patch | 11:28 |
| Tonio_ | the point is I can do the package, but I would like to be sure everyone agrees on the idea cause it is a lot of work | 11:28 |
| fabo | Tonio_: exactly like last time i looked inside ;) | 11:28 |
| toma | Lure: hm ok | 11:28 |
| Tonio_ | that's the point | 11:28 |
| Lure | toma: +linked to kerry (beagle) | 11:28 |
| Lure | :-( | 11:29 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: but the patches should be quite easy to maintain in fact | 11:29 |
| nixternal | it would be nice to get the Help system to search our doucmentation and what not in there as well. Link the ? to some topic based help love | 11:29 |
| Tonio_ | just diff the suse branch with official kde one | 11:29 |
| Riddell | erk, it's a branch of kdebase http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/suse_kickoff/ | 11:29 |
| Lure | Tonio_: maybe you should prepare packages in your repo and we can try | 11:29 |
| mhb | maybe we should wait on seele's input before starting | 11:29 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: yes, that's my point | 11:29 |
| Tonio_ | in fact suse will maintain the branch so it is quite easy for us to maintain the patches | 11:30 |
| Tonio_ | mhb: kickoff has been designed with kde usability people :) | 11:30 |
| Lure | mhb: point - I do not like how some things are done... | 11:30 |
| toma | http://home.kde.org/~binner/kickoff/sneak_preview.html | 11:30 |
| Lure | Tonio_: I think with suse usability actually ;-) | 11:30 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: I'm not sure seele has been involved, but some kde people have | 11:30 |
| allee | I would really like to give kickoff a try. | 11:30 |
| toma | i dont like the behaviour of all programs | 11:31 |
| fabo | allee: me too. it could be nice if coolo provide a nice source archive with just kickoff ... | 11:31 |
| Tonio_ | well I'll do package on my repo so that we can test | 11:31 |
| Tonio_ | then once we can really test it we can rediscuss this | 11:31 |
| Lure | Tonio_: that would be great! | 11:31 |
| mhb | I'm not sure if the amount of work is worth it. After all, KDE4 will probably have a new kicker too, won't it? | 11:32 |
| === Lure hates to reboot in suse to try it out ;-) | ||
| fabo | mhb: raptor | 11:32 |
| Tonio_ | mhb: I wonder if kickoff will or not bethe kde4 default, or at least used as a base | 11:32 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: wasn't that discussed at akademy ? | 11:32 |
| Riddell | kde 4 will (should) have plasma, no kicker at all | 11:32 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: okay | 11:33 |
| Riddell | so we'd all love to see packages of kickoff, but if it's a branch of kdebase I'm not sure how possible that is | 11:33 |
| toma | im still curious how that will work out | 11:33 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I'll look at how suse implemented it | 11:33 |
| toma | (no kicker) | 11:33 |
| Tonio_ | toma: no kicker doesn't mean no start menu :) | 11:34 |
| allee | Tonio_: Maybe we should try a SuSE lifecd first and talk about it in 2 weeks again? | 11:34 |
| Tonio_ | the "kicker" can be a desktop widget, or something | 11:34 |
| Tonio_ | allee: please do :) | 11:34 |
| === fdoving [n=frode@ubuntu/member/frode] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| toma | yes thats fine by me too | 11:34 |
| Lure | allee: Tonio_ typically packages stuff faster they we can download live cd ;-) | 11:35 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: lol, probably not that time btw ;) | 11:35 |
| Riddell | so another one for Tonio_'s TODO list | 11:36 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: well, everyone will give a try and I'll prepare testing packages, we can go next item | 11:36 |
| Riddell | nixternal's item | 11:36 |
| toma | hi fdoving | 11:36 |
| nixternal | The Ubuntu Documentation Team is currently working ona Topic Based Help System | 11:36 |
| nixternal | this is good, as it allows people to actually find help within our guides by topic | 11:36 |
| fdoving | hi toma, sorry i'm late. | 11:37 |
| nixternal | the tricky part is this. either use KHelpCenter with a custom front page, or possibly create an application that will read the documentation into a custome Help Center specificaly for Kubuntu | 11:37 |
| Lure | nixternal: I have to say that it really looks nice, so I am all for it - not sure how easy the intergation would be | 11:38 |
| nixternal | as it stands, KHelpCenter isn't getting much love upstream. They want to change it in KDE4 but I don't know if anyone is working on it yet | 11:38 |
| nixternal | Lure: ya, the integration is what I am wondering about | 11:38 |
| Tonio_ | nixternal: shame on you ! the code bugs on konqueror ! | 11:38 |
| nixternal | the KHelpCenter guys said take the HTML and convert it into a C++ application. that is where I leave that up to devs :) | 11:38 |
| raphink | nixternal: or as I suggested, use the custom pages in Konqueror | 11:39 |
| nixternal | Tonio_: ya, i will fix that | 11:39 |
| Tonio_ | nixternal: thanks ;) | 11:39 |
| raphink | by providing index.html pages for each section of the doc | 11:39 |
| nixternal | but yes, raphink has an idea about using Konqueror to display help and link it with the help:/ | 11:39 |
| Lure | nixternal: it would be great in KHelpCenter as it is already linked all around (k-menu, keyboard...) | 11:39 |
| raphink | I have begun to look at it | 11:39 |
| raphink | for example, if I create a /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/fr/kubuntu/index.html file | 11:40 |
| Tonio_ | I must say I love the idea | 11:40 |
| raphink | it shows up in help:/kubuntu | 11:40 |
| raphink | so people can browse the help:/ | 11:40 |
| nixternal | as it stands, a new user can't find help in our documentation very easily, and we need to fix this | 11:40 |
| raphink | we could then compile the index.html files with po files for languages | 11:40 |
| raphink | to provide the users whole customized indexes of the doc | 11:40 |
| nixternal | that is why mpt suggested the topic based help, and the doc team is currently working on some layouts for it | 11:40 |
| raphink | and link the konqueror start page to help:/ | 11:40 |
| Lure | raphink: right, help:/kubuntu/desktopguide/index.html already works | 11:41 |
| Riddell | nixternal: where would the links on the left go to e.g. Multimedia? | 11:41 |
| raphink | yes Lure, but help:/ and help:/kubuntu are empty | 11:41 |
| raphink | Lure: so we can use them | 11:41 |
| nixternal | raphink: the pages will still be built in docbook and then converted to html, so the po files will be generated by us | 11:41 |
| raphink | yes | 11:41 |
| nixternal | Riddell: they would go to a page that would list common questions users have for that specific topic | 11:41 |
| Lure | raphink: but should we then change k-menu Help to point to konqueror help:/ ? (same for keyboard shortcut in kmilo)? | 11:42 |
| toma | why the docbook construction? why not link straight to the doc site? | 11:42 |
| nixternal | that is an idea | 11:42 |
| raphink | there could be a help:/faq for that maybe nixternal | 11:42 |
| nixternal | toma: that is the standard the doc team uses, and until they change that | 11:42 |
| nixternal | toma: oh, we don't want to link for all questions because not everyone has internet access | 11:43 |
| allee | toma: there are still people without permanent internet access, so 'basic docs need to be on disk | 11:43 |
| raphink | I'm wondering how KHelpCenter gets the list of help pages | 11:43 |
| toma | hmm, a short ping to test it? | 11:44 |
| raphink | is it dynamic or generated when the doc is built? | 11:44 |
| nixternal | index.html.in file..i looked at KHelpCenter and all I can say is I was lost | 11:44 |
| Riddell | raphink: .desktop files | 11:44 |
| raphink | right | 11:44 |
| === licio [n=licio@ubuntu/member/licio] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| raphink | I guess the way the launch.html page is done | 11:44 |
| Riddell | and the apps list is just the k-menu | 11:44 |
| raphink | half compiled with .cc and half using .desktop files | 11:44 |
| toma | nixternal: all i know from the helpcenter is that it is a nightmare... | 11:45 |
| raphink | or something of the kind | 11:45 |
| Riddell | nixternal: apart from the nice descriptions on the menus at the side this could all be done in khelpcentre | 11:45 |
| raphink | toma: it's also very slow, compared to using help:/ in konqueror imo | 11:45 |
| nixternal | toma: i agree 100%, that is why the KDE guys are looking to replace it in KDE4 | 11:45 |
| Riddell | (although whether you want to is another thing) | 11:45 |
| nixternal | Riddell: if it can be done, then great | 11:45 |
| nixternal | of course we will probably change it anyways in feisty+1 because hopefully kde 4 will have a new topic based help system | 11:46 |
| toma | nixternal: okay, so why not use a html and only use it in konqi and skip the docbook construction for helpcenter | 11:46 |
| toma | isnt that easier to maintain? | 11:46 |
| nixternal | oh toma the page itself that you see in khelpcenter will be done in html, but the links will goto documentation that is built with docbook | 11:46 |
| nixternal | sorry | 11:46 |
| raphink | toma: the html will have to be generated anyway, at least for translations | 11:46 |
| allee | toma: is for html the same i18n infrastructure available as for docbook? | 11:47 |
| raphink | toma: and we already have generators from docbook | 11:47 |
| toma | raphink: okay | 11:47 |
| raphink | nixternal: can you confirm? | 11:47 |
| toma | allee: no, only for docbook | 11:47 |
| Riddell | nixternal: how does this fit into the plan for the Kubuntu Desktop Guide? | 11:47 |
| nixternal | well, Rosetta does html translations as well, see the index.html pages they use in Ubuntu firefox start page | 11:47 |
| nixternal | yes raphink i confirm | 11:47 |
| nixternal | Riddell: the guide will become topic based, so it will provide more answers to common questions | 11:48 |
| nixternal | as well as updated information on the applications like it currently contains | 11:48 |
| nixternal | so, the KDG will become modular in a way, where you can read only the section on Email, or Desktop Customizing, or Multimedia | 11:49 |
| Lure | nixternal: multimedia will/did change a lot in feisty | 11:49 |
| Lure | nixternal: DG talks about KsCD.... | 11:49 |
| Riddell | nixternal: so the links on the left in your mockup go to chapters in the KDG? | 11:49 |
| nixternal | Lure: so that whole section will be re-written, and plus people will know how to play MP3s and what not as well from it | 11:49 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: good point.... | 11:49 |
| nixternal | Riddell: yes | 11:49 |
| nixternal | Lure: we will be changing the applications in the DG. it is time for change :) | 11:50 |
| Lure | nixternal: ok | 11:50 |
| nixternal | Riddell: then each of those chapters will break down into subtopics | 11:51 |
| nixternal | those subtopics will list information as well as answers to the common questions users have with Kubuntu | 11:51 |
| nixternal | also, KHelpCenter doesn't search worth a darn | 11:52 |
| nixternal | as it stands, it only searches man pages | 11:52 |
| === kdw_ is now known as kdw | ||
| Riddell | nixternal: all sounds great, it just needs a front page along the lines of your mockup and careful which docbook <sectX> level you use to make sure things end up on the same or separate pages as desired | 11:52 |
| Riddell | and it can be in khelpcentre, but maybe about:konq should just point to the HTML direct | 11:53 |
| nixternal | Riddell: that is the plan, each topic will be seperate to avoid confusion | 11:53 |
| Riddell | rocking, go for it | 11:53 |
| nixternal | woohoo!!! | 11:53 |
| Riddell | is robotgeek active in docs still? | 11:53 |
| nixternal | i will be working with upstream for kde4 and topic based help as well...so maybe i can learn some more | 11:53 |
| Riddell | who are you in contact with in KDE? | 11:54 |
| nixternal | robotgeek is very much active..he is on a 10 day sabbatical i believe right now | 11:54 |
| toma | nixternal: do you have the contacts already? | 11:54 |
| nixternal | Philip Rodriguez and Frerich Raabe | 11:54 |
| toma | okay | 11:54 |
| toma | thats about the complete team ;-( | 11:54 |
| nixternal | oh, plus I might be contributing soon to the Dot :) | 11:55 |
| allee | nixternal: FWIW don't forget that sometimes it's better to get a print out of the hole handbook , so don't split too much | 11:55 |
| nixternal | allee: we will still generate the system docs in PDF form | 11:55 |
| allee | nixternal: all in one? Cool | 11:55 |
| nixternal | PDFs will be at help.ubuntu.com | 11:55 |
| nixternal | but yes, PDFs and HTML are currently derived from one docbook file | 11:56 |
| allee | nixternal: for all kde apps, i.e. from universe too | 11:56 |
| Riddell | and if we get artists for Feisty we can poke them into making a nice help theme | 11:56 |
| nixternal | the html will get broken up, but the PDF will stay one solid piece | 11:56 |
| allee | nixternal: excellent | 11:57 |
| nixternal | allee: I am sure we can through some universe love in as well | 11:57 |
| Riddell | ok, onwards | 11:57 |
| nixternal | s/through/throw | 11:57 |
| === yuriy [n=yuriy@dhcp-129-64-153-72.dorm.brandeis.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| Riddell | we have a membership | 11:57 |
| nixternal | Riddell: rocking on the artists | 11:57 |
| toma | mhb: you're 18? | 11:57 |
| mhb | toma: yup | 11:57 |
| nixternal | haha | 11:57 |
| nixternal | wait, im only 12 | 11:57 |
| === gnomefreak still feels old :( | ||
| toma | mhb: can you give a short intro? | 11:58 |
| mhb | sure | 11:58 |
| Riddell | mhb: got a wiki page and a launchpad page? | 11:58 |
| mhb | My name is Martin Bhm and I'm a student from the Czech Republic. I'm a member of the Ubuntu Czech translation team since Dapper and I was recently appointed as the coordinator of this team. I've also made a website about Kubuntu in Czech. At the end of the Edgy development phase I've created a Kubuntu Testers team which will hopefully help with the testing of Feisty Fawn. I also have a small piece of software I'll try to develop for Feisty - th | 11:58 |
| === Riddell finds https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MartinBhm and https://launchpad.net/people/martin.bohm | ||
| Riddell | mhb: cut off at "for Feisty - th" | 11:59 |
| mhb | sorry | 11:59 |
| mhb | for Feisty - the GRUB configuration tool. If all goes well and I have a little time left I'll may also help with some less important Rosetta features a bit. | 11:59 |
| Riddell | did you manage to bring along any groupies? | 12:00 |
| jenda | me, me, me! | 12:00 |
| mhb | I hope jenda's not fallen asleep | 12:00 |
| nixternal | mhb: im interested, however you have to get jenda to switch first | 12:00 |
| jenda | Mind if I copy-paste it? :) | 12:00 |
| raphink | what is the GRUB configuration tool exactly? | 12:00 |
| jenda | mhb has been doing some amazing work for Ubuntu, but mainly Kubuntu in the Czech Republic, as well as helped resolve local community issues. Most notably translations (currently the translation leader), support and website management. | 12:00 |
| raphink | is it a graphical interface to set GRUB? | 12:00 |
| mhb | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuGrubconfig | 12:01 |
| nixternal | Riddell: i can vouge that he has actually helped me out with some stuff in the past converning docs and packaging. i swore he was a member already though | 12:01 |
| mhb | raphink: yes, for systemsettings | 12:01 |
| raphink | developped as a kcmshell module mhb? | 12:01 |
| Tonio_ | mhb: guidance extention.... interesting ! | 12:01 |
| raphink | very nice :) | 12:01 |
| gnomefreak | yay a grub for dummies ;) | 12:01 |
| Riddell | mhb: have you told me about your kubuntu czech website? It should be on http://kubuntu.org/support.php | 12:01 |
| raphink | mhb: do you consider possible conflicts with grub-updates? | 12:01 |
| raphink | grub-update sorry | 12:02 |
| mhb | Riddell: well I wait a *long* time for the kubuntu.cz domain name | 12:02 |
| Riddell | mhb: that was my next question | 12:02 |
| Riddell | mhb: the guy never pointed it to you? | 12:02 |
| toma | gnomefreak: the mockup is not very understandable for users... | 12:02 |
| fabo | mhb: grub stuff .. is it the work with seele ? | 12:03 |
| mhb | Riddell: well it's a bit complicated because someone else (kubuntu.sk) bought the domain name | 12:03 |
| mhb | fabo: yes | 12:03 |
| fabo | nice | 12:03 |
| mhb | Riddell: I don't think there will be any | 12:03 |
| Riddell | mhb: I know, but you contacted him right? | 12:03 |
| mhb | raphink: ^^ | 12:03 |
| gnomefreak | toma: its a gui it better than edit /boot/grub/mune.lst from what i can tell as is | 12:03 |
| mhb | Riddell: a loong time ago | 12:03 |
| mhb | Riddell: even poked jono about it | 12:03 |
| toma | gnomefreak: true | 12:03 |
| === Tonio_ notes that kubuntu-cz.org is available..... | ||
| Riddell | kubuntu.sk looks maintained, mhb: please send me the contact details for the guy and I'll poke him | 12:04 |
| mhb | Riddell: sure | 12:04 |
| raphink | mhb: has kubuntu testers already been active so far? | 12:04 |
| raphink | or will it just begin with feist? | 12:04 |
| toma | +1 for me | 12:04 |
| raphink | feisty | 12:04 |
| mhb | raphink: sadly not much | 12:05 |
| allee | mhb: What's the status of Kubuntu testers? What is planed until feisty is releases? | 12:05 |
| mhb | raphink: it was created at the end of the edgy development cycle | 12:05 |
| raphink | allee: ;) | 12:05 |
| allee | oh ;) | 12:05 |
| mhb | raphink: we hope to eliminate some of the problems with Edgy, for example dist-upgrades | 12:06 |
| raphink | how do you mean? | 12:06 |
| raphink | you mean dist-upgrade issues? | 12:06 |
| mhb | raphink: I some of the people with better bandwidth will start testing dailies | 12:06 |
| raphink | ok | 12:06 |
| mhb | raphink: yes, we want to point out such issues in advance for Feisty | 12:07 |
| allee | mhb: are there something like test a test plan? | 12:07 |
| mhb | allee: I'm not sure what you mean | 12:07 |
| allee | mhb: something like a checklist and test dataset to verify everythings works | 12:08 |
| raphink | mhb: a doc page for testers to follow | 12:08 |
| raphink | with points to check | 12:08 |
| allee | raphink: :) | 12:08 |
| raphink | hehe :) | 12:08 |
| Riddell | uwiki:Testing | 12:08 |
| Riddell | it's all there | 12:08 |
| Riddell | time for votes | 12:09 |
| allee | +1 | 12:09 |
| Riddell | +1 from me | 12:09 |
| raphink | well the current test for Kubuntu is 6.06 RC1 | 12:09 |
| toma | i would like a list which i can use that the laptop i'm delivering to my clients works completely, could be usefull as well ;-) | 12:09 |
| raphink | mhm | 12:09 |
| raphink | mhb: could be nice to take care of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Testing/CurrentKubuntu for sure :) | 12:09 |
| Riddell | raphink: shouldn't be, we did test the releases of 6.10 I know | 12:09 |
| mhb | raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Kubuntu/Current | 12:10 |
| Tonio_ | +1 for me too | 12:10 |
| raphink | then there should be a link | 12:10 |
| raphink | +1 | 12:10 |
| Riddell | sounds like an obsolete page | 12:10 |
| Riddell | ooh, a full list of +1s! | 12:10 |
| raphink | yes but it's linked from uwiki:Testing | 12:10 |
| Riddell | welcome in mhb | 12:10 |
| Lure | mhb: welcome! | 12:10 |
| mhb | thank you all | 12:10 |
| raphink | :) | 12:10 |
| jenda | Congratulations mhb :) | 12:10 |
| Riddell | any other memberships? | 12:10 |
| === allee remembers amu worked on a checklist | ||
| toma | mhb: congrats | 12:10 |
| nixternal | CONGRATS mhb!!! | 12:10 |
| abattoir | mhb: congrats :) | 12:10 |
| allee | mhb: congrats | 12:11 |
| toma | hehe | 12:11 |
| jenda | mhb is the first Czech Kubuntu member, and in total, the 3rd Ubuntu Member in the Country. | 12:11 |
| nixternal | welcome to this crazy family ;p | 12:11 |
| mhb | I'm *really* happy :o) | 12:11 |
| toma | time to sleep? | 12:11 |
| raphink | yes, bed time | 12:11 |
| raphink | :) | 12:11 |
| === jenda pops the chapaigne open for mhb | ||
| nixternal | mhb: your first order of business, switch jenda from Ubuntu to Kubuntu :) | 12:11 |
| Lure | nixternal: lol | 12:11 |
| toma | Riddell: anything else? | 12:11 |
| jenda | nixternal: no way :) | 12:11 |
| Riddell | quite a few people have applied for membership | 12:11 |
| Riddell | I should e-mail them before the next meeting I suppose | 12:12 |
| Lure | Riddell: where? | 12:12 |
| Tonio_ | toma: don't we discuss your last point ? | 12:12 |
| nixternal | on launchpad | 12:12 |
| Riddell | Lure: https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-members/+members Proposed members | 12:12 |
| toma | Tonio_: that is for meeting+1, i think hobbsee should be here | 12:12 |
| toma | Tonio_: but you can think about it ;-) | 12:12 |
| Riddell | any other business? | 12:12 |
| raphink | zerlinna also told me she thought of applying soon Riddell | 12:12 |
| Tonio_ | toma: hehe okay ;) | 12:12 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: yers ! | 12:12 |
| nixternal | NOTE: If anyone has some merges they would like some help with, I am interested in helping out - my Feisty goal is to become a MOTU eventually | 12:13 |
| Tonio_ | allee: we forgot something ! | 12:13 |
| Riddell | oh, toma, I patched kdelibs to put a notice in the about box that translations are modified in Rosetta | 12:13 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: is there improvement plans for the media:/ patches by sime ? | 12:13 |
| Riddell | you might want to look at the string to see if it's clear | 12:13 |
| toma | Riddell: o very good | 12:13 |
| toma | Riddell: feisty only? | 12:13 |
| Riddell | toma: yes | 12:13 |
| raphink | nixternal: nice :) | 12:13 |
| === Mithrandir [n=tfheen@vawad-xen1.err.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting | ||
| toma | okay, i'll have a look | 12:13 |
| Tonio_ | allee: we forgot to add that to the agenda.... | 12:13 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: not that I know of | 12:13 |
| allee | Tonio_: oh, right. | 12:14 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: the problem is that at the current stage, the patches create more problems than they resolve... | 12:14 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I'd be very happy to keep them, but honnestly, they are really alpha stage... | 12:14 |
| toma | Tonio_: isnt that the .hidden thingy? | 12:14 |
| Tonio_ | toma: no it is the media:/ replacement by /media | 12:15 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: example of issues : | 12:15 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: I guess we need a list of issues and see what sime says about it | 12:15 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: yes a wikipage would be good probably | 12:15 |
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