=== Q-FUNK [n=q-funk@dsl-hkigw8-feb6fb00-217.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-059-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:34] slomo: Is it ok if I request a sync of last-exit? [12:40] composite-by-default has been deferred? :( === jonh_wendell [n=wendell@40-88-199-200.vcnet.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-motu === plugwash [i=plugwash@p10link.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === finalbeta [n=finalbet@d5152A68A.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:06] does anyone know how i can pull the dependencies of packages that are being downloaded with apt-get -d? [01:06] apt-get -d --reinstall* that is === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:07] ailean: where did you see that? [01:09] woah, lots of updates for edgy [01:09] LaserJock: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/composite-by-default [01:09] wassup wit dat? ;) [01:09] LaserJock, check https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/composite-by-default [01:09] that spec says drafting [01:09] yes gnomefreak :) [01:10] drafting not deferred :) [01:10] it changed [01:10] oh ok [01:10] who changed it :) === rmjb [n=richard@cuscon24589.tstt.net.tt] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:11] ailean: i do not know [01:11] rmjb: :D [01:11] unfortunately, there is no way to know [01:11] everything is okay [01:11] a flap about nothing [01:11] hey joejaxx [01:11] :P [01:11] :P [01:11] i'm happier [01:11] does anyone know tha answer to my question? :) [01:11] i do not know if it can be done or not [01:11] LaserJock: I added the man page and made the changes to the *.install to homebank === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-94-74.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:12] darn, I was hoping it was deferred [01:13] LaserJock: lol! [01:13] Adri2000: cool [01:13] joejaxx: I must have missed the question... though if it's hard core packaging I might not be able to answer it [01:13] lol [01:13] LaserJock: so was I [01:13] rmjb: 16:06 < joejaxx> does anyone know how i can pull the dependencies of packages that are being downloaded with apt-get -d? [01:13] 16:06 < joejaxx> apt-get -d --reinstall* that is [01:13] LaserJock: I hope you will advocate it now :) [01:13] LaserJock, not a fan of the aul xgl stuff then? [01:14] ailean: not by default, no [01:14] rmjb: ie i want the packages AND their dependencies in the cache whether they are installed already or not [01:15] LaserJock, what about a choice at the first startup? [01:16] ailean: won't happen [01:16] rmjb: i do not think you can do it [01:16] joejaxx: what are you trying to do? [01:17] LaserJock, you have to allow a certain level of graphics into things but maintain the option to have a simple window manager too [01:17] LaserJock: pull the dependencies of five packages and the packages themselves to the apt cache [01:17] ailean: I can imagine a "Bling? No Bling?" question in the installer, that's about it. [01:17] but they are already installed which is why i used the --reinstall application flag === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.119.19] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:18] ailean: the level og graphics we have now is insufficient? [01:18] s/og/of/ [01:19] it took me 2 minutes it install the beryl wobbly windows === PuMpErNiCkLe [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:19] if it was officially in the repos it'd take me 1 min [01:19] LaserJock, took me 2 mins too [01:19] I don't think that's a whole lot to ask [01:19] 1 minute? [01:19] which X driver is this? [01:20] can't remember [01:20] but I just put in the beryl repo in sources.list [01:20] and installed it [01:20] i installed it and used it for a week i have not used it at all since those two weeks [01:20] LaserJock, that's all i did [01:20] and then relogged in [01:20] LaserJock, worked no probs [01:21] it's pretty horrible on this i915gm (using i810-modesetting) [01:21] I don't see why we need to make it any easier at this point [01:21] i think this kind of thing is necessary to convince people that ubuntu is a viable alternative [01:21] I certainly hope not [01:21] people are shallow. they need bling [01:21] bling that works maybe [01:21] lol [01:21] mine works [01:21] ailean: i think this project is more than just attracting users [01:21] corey has been doing a lot of bug triaging wrt compiz [01:22] what is it about joejaxx? [01:22] not sure about beryl [01:22] attracting users with bling is great. We are going to keep them with things that work [01:22] crimsun: nothing on beryl. Not yet in the repos [01:22] I'd rather not have them for 10 minutes and then say "this stuff sucks, I'm not using Linux ever again" [01:22] ailean: everything that ubuntu is about [01:22] ailean: please see my last blog post on planet [01:22] joejaxx, i.e. on the cutting edge of debian? [01:22] Burgwork, a link? [01:22] oh [01:23] sorry [01:23] ailean: minix does not have 5 million users but it was the start of a revolution [01:23] example: ^ [01:23] it's about a stable, usable, accessible, and open source computing environment, IMO [01:23] LaserJock: yeap === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:24] if we can do all that and have bling then I'm all for it [01:24] ailean: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu [01:24] Burgwork, what's your name in real life? [01:25] (it's Burgwork!) [01:25] hehehe [01:25] LaserJock: i just hope we do not turn into vista [01:25] i honestly have had not one problem running beryl [01:26] that's great, really [01:26] ok, got it [01:26] it's just that we can't give that to everybody [01:27] particularly when it doesn't work even on the level of the standard window manager [01:27] one day, compiz/beryl will have FUNCTIONAL focus-stealing prevention [01:27] then the world will be happy and there will be peace at last [01:27] jdong: lol [01:27] (and yes, I know it's a complaint and that my time would be better spent implementing said things, but hey, I have an entire subsystem to worry about) [01:27] and hopefully by then we get a new administration in the US? [01:28] and not mr flying ticket counters === ryanakca [i=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:28] ailean: Corey Burger [01:29] http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=115 [01:29] Burgwork, got it :) thanks [01:29] hey crimsun [01:29] Burgwork, i have to say, i find none of the things you say true about Beryl - maybe so with compiz [01:29] 'lo Burgwork [01:29] I mean, the thing I'm looking at is metacity (stable, mature, window manager) vs. compiz/beryl (unstable, blingy, not really a window manager yet) [01:29] ailean: when it is in the repos, I will test it [01:29] that's the other thing [01:29] Burgwork, I can move apps from one viewport to another using the same commands and when i maximise it does so to that viewport [01:30] beryl isn't even in Universe right now [01:30] indeed [01:30] Burgwork, the ONE problem i have had is keeping kaffeine on top of other windows [01:30] and we're supposed to get it in Main and default by like March? [01:30] LaserJock: what's stopping it from being Universe? [01:30] just out of curiousity [01:30] people packaging it [01:30] ailean: it is not hard to write a WM, it is hard to write one that works in most cases [01:30] jdong: it includes mesa cruft [01:30] LaserJock: and why aren't there people packaging it? [01:30] moins all [01:30] imbrandon: ok, I like that answer better :) [01:30] imbrandon: ! :D [01:30] it what?! [01:30] jdong: apparently several have tried [01:30] jdong: they'd rather work on it [01:30] hello [01:31] imbrandon: hey brandon :) [01:31] shawarma: hmm... where do I get ddeb? and just in case it's a corrupt /var/lib/dpkg-whatever... how do I check [01:31] mesa cruft? goodness. that's nearly as bad as including x server code. [01:31] Burgwork: your full ircnick sounds like the name of a country === PuMpErNiCkLe [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:31] heh [01:31] Burgwork: :) [01:31] I'm using feisty with ndiswrapper, i updated the system, it updated the kernel from 2.6.17 to 2.6.19 but didn't installed ndiswrapper-utils-1.9 and my wireless card wasn't working , should I report this ? [01:31] the Beryl guys seem to already have some degree of packaging... is it not possible that Ubuntu helps them out with that? [01:31] joejaxx: it is a deliberate corruption of Burgundy, so I am not surprised [01:31] Burgwork, oh, and when I flick TO beryl, the windows default to the top of the screen instead of below the top bar [01:32] shawarma: in pitti's dir on people.uc. [01:32] shawarma: sorry [01:32] Burgwork: ah! oh ok [01:32] if spinny cubes is really such a goal for feisty it wouldn't be a bad idea to put some priority on it :-/ [01:32] ryanakca: in pitti's dir on people.uc [01:32] (not trying to deride on anyone's efforts... apologies to anyone if that's the case) [01:32] jdong: we have, infact __I__ have, but its not of the quality that keybuk and others will accept, read back the logs in #ubuntu-devel last week [01:32] imbrandon: I see, thanks for the info. I had no idea [01:33] and by quality i dont mean the packing , i mean the upstream code [01:33] crimsun, ? [01:33] you're working on the kernel ? [01:33] yes, all several million lines. [01:33] :) [01:33] heya crimsun sorry i dident see your PM untill now, you still need that done ? [01:33] while asleep and walking uphill both ways. [01:33] hahaha [01:33] but you only wrote about 1 million or so of those [01:33] on packaging the kernel [01:34] have you seen my question about kernel update vs ndiswrapper-utils ? [01:35] Burgwork: do you know if drafters can/should set the target milestone on their specs? [01:35] LaserJock: I don't know. try [01:35] it might only be the distro drivers themselves [01:36] my specs always seem to get left in the dust [01:36] imbrandon: yes, please [01:36] crimsun: sure one second [01:36] xerxas: fresh install of 7.04 or dist-upgrade(s)? [01:37] dist-upgrade [01:37] crimsun: btw you or anyone else for that matter can probably get ahold of my easier on jabber now a days ( just FYI incase this comes up again etc ) [01:37] xerxas: that's a known issue === freeflying|away [i=flyingfr@gobstopper.dreamhost.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:37] I do updates quite frequently [01:37] crimsun, k [01:37] LaserJock: the way to not get them left in the dust is to promote the crap out of them. Get somebody on the core team to review them [01:37] Burgwork, maximising windows does not put them under the bottom panel, the window title has always updated as far as I can see, windows are always raised visually, the window list is always there, updating panel applets still draw over full screen apps, windows to sneak over to the next viewport by 5-10 pixels, but this doesn't mean that they are *in* the other viewport [01:37] just to give my opinion on beryl :) [01:38] ailean: cool, but until I see that package, those bugs stand. Besides, compiz upstream is far more sane than beryl [01:38] crimsun: I'm guessing that people.uc = people.ubuntu.com? either that or people.uc is on a super super slow connection [01:38] ryanakca: people.ubuntu.com :D [01:38] lol [01:39] I abbreviate domains [01:39] Burgwork, fair enough :) [01:39] Burgwork: it's been reviewed, it's been sitting in "Pending Review" for a while [01:39] LaserJock: linky? [01:39] crimsun: why not use http://www.ubuntu.com/ instead of people.ubuntu.com ? [01:39] crimsun: they both give the same thing ;) [01:40] Burgwork: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion [01:40] nevermind :) [01:41] because historically www.do and people.do have been separated. [01:41] LaserJock: then you need to poke ogra [01:45] Burgwork: personally I don't really see the point for community people [01:45] specs seem basically to be the way Canonical people justify their time [01:45] LaserJock: for getting specs approved? for very good reason. Those specs show the community what we are working on [01:45] and it works well that way [01:46] but whether it is approved or not I'm going to implement it [01:46] so why all the hassle [01:46] the marketing team (read: me) is going to talk about specs more [01:46] LaserJock: you sound very beat down [01:46] with composite-by-default defered PLEASE tell me binary drivers is axed [01:46] oh crud... shawarma said to install the ddebs, so that I could do a proper backtrace, but how am I supposed to do that when apt-*, aptitude, adept, synaptic, kynaptic, etc keep on segfaulting? or did he mean install just the ddebs for apt? === PuMpErNiCkLe [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:46] imbrandon: nah, just something odd [01:47] hrm [01:47] Burgwork: ah well, I almost joined Jorge but thought better of it [01:47] hmm, troublesome [01:47] I almost joined him as well [01:47] does anyone know of a good LVM overview website / page / document , right off hand before i go googleing [01:48] I think jdub's latest blog is a lot of it ;-) [01:48] imbrandon, it's not deferred [01:48] LaserJock: I'm not surprised, really [01:48] LaserJock: the burnout thing? yes, good read [01:48] imbrandon: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/ ? [01:49] sounds like a good place to start [01:49] and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Volume_Manager_(Linux) [01:50] bedtime [01:50] night all [01:50] night ailean [01:50] cya [01:52] LaserJock: I just implement stuff whether it's approved or not [01:52] yeah, that's sort of what I'm going with [01:52] anyone here experienced greatly with apt and ebian? [01:52] debian* [01:52] but I get really stressed out over these specs [01:52] and it seem like for minimal gain [01:53] you're not going to like teaching, then. [01:53] 99% of what you'll do as a univ professor boils down to "being ignored" [01:53] hence why crimsun spends all his waking hours on ubuntu [01:54] shhh. [01:54] I'm trying to compile tapioca sharp using cdbs, it uses a autogen.sh and I get this with pbuilder: [01:54] chmod a+x /tmp/buildd/libtapioca-cil-0.3.9svn20061207/./configure [01:54] chmod: cannot access `/tmp/buildd/libtapioca-cil-0.3.9svn20061207/./configure': No such file or directory [01:54] you probably have to bootstrap/autogen [01:54] how can I say in debian/rules that we need to run autogen.sh before ./configure ? [01:55] crimsun, bootstrap/autogen ? what do you mean ? [01:55] does configure after the checkout? [01:55] exist ^ [01:55] from what i've seen, projects like avahi uses autogen.sh but the source also gives configure === marcin_ant [n=marcin@194.114.146.126] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:55] crimsun, no, but some projects using autogen.sh does [01:56] tapioca-sharp doesn't [01:56] I think that's my problem [01:56] (I'm not in the default cdbs behaviour with autogen.sh) === PuMpErNiCkLe [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:58] crimsun, what do you mean by "you probably have to bootstrap/autogen" ? [01:59] using debootstrap ? instead of cdbs ? [01:59] xerxas: if after a checkout configure does not exist, you'll need to invoke whatever creates it. Sometimes (normally) there's an autogen.sh or bootstrap script that does so, but you can always do it manually. [02:00] hi all [02:00] If I run autogen.sh it creates a configure [02:00] crimsun, can I run autogen.sh manually not within a pbuilder ? [02:00] hi fernando [02:03] certainly [02:04] crimsun, ok , thanks, I find this weired [02:05] I mean , it's strange to create a configure with a script if it doesn't depend on the current environment (hardware ?) [02:15] yo [02:15] ello zul [02:16] hiya imbrandon [02:18] hi zul === fernando__ [n=fernando@189.0.150.55] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:24] the autotools generate a horriblly long detection script based on what your package needs === givre [n=Florent@APuteaux-152-1-94-74.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:24] running that detection script detects if the system the build is being done on has what your package needs [02:24] i agree its strange but thats how autotools works [02:34] xerxas: autogen.sh/bootstrap.sh is for SVN that has no ./configure [02:34] xerxas: we provide autogen.sh/bootstrap.sh in case you want to edit configure [02:46] Lathiat, ? what do you mean by we ? [02:50] xerxas: i'm one of the avahi devs :) [02:50] plugwash, isn't configure doing the same ? [02:50] Lathiat, ok :) === fowlduck [n=nate@205.213.122.117] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:52] configure is the horriblly long detection script generated by autotools [02:53] wonderful, wonderful autotools [02:55] i think the reason some projects don't keep configure in thier cvs/svn repositries is that having autogenererated files in your version control system sucks for merging [02:56] yeh [02:56] we dont keep configure in svn [02:56] no need really [02:56] the tarballs have them, tho [02:56] and it just makes a mess of diffs [02:57] ok [02:58] so I should run autgen.sh before doing a dh_make , like if it was in the upstream distribution ? === seaLne [n=seaLne@ubuntu/member/sealne] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-172-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:59] i doubt it really matters whether you put it in the upstream tarball or the diff.gz [02:59] Heya gang [02:59] ok [02:59] need to go sleep [02:59] 3 A.M here, work tomorrow , a bit crazy :) [03:15] jdong: keybuk doesn't seem to be in #ubuntu-devel [03:15] cmpalmer: it's late [03:15] :) [03:15] I wouldn't expect him to be, since he's in the UK. === crimsun pokes cmpalmer with a FRIGGIN STICK [03:17] crimsun: deep breaths? [03:17] it's ok, we're in the same LUG. [03:17] :) [03:18] cmpalmer: catch him during normal UK business hours [03:19] amazing, someone that's met crimsun in person? [03:19] he can attest to my sharp pointy teeth. [03:20] cmpalmer: crimsun actually exists, then? [03:20] run away! [03:21] hehe [03:21] ajmitch: I too am interested, I'm not so sure [03:21] So how do we request packages from Debian that are not in the archive currently? [03:25] bddebian: staple a Ben Franklin to an envelope and mail to the address I PM'ed you [03:25] ;-) [03:25] Heh [03:26] cmpalmer: yes. I've even seen him eat [03:26] damn tab-completion [03:26] :/ [03:26] ajmitch: he is real. he eats food [03:26] he hasn't seen me sleep, though. [03:27] this is true :/ [03:28] he's a darn robot I tell you! [03:28] he doesn't sleep! === bddebian just downloads and dputs since no-one is answering him ;-P === ajmitch watches ftpmasters yell at bddebian [03:30] F' 'em ;-P [03:35] ajmitch: So how do I do it "properly" man? [03:35] you don't [03:36] packages that are new in debian get stuck into a special NEW queue that gets reviewed when an ftpmaster gets bored [03:36] up until DebianImportFreeze, anyway [03:38] ajmitch: Not new in Debian homey, I mean like gnumach and mig ;-) [03:38] oh, noone wants those in [03:39] I do :-) [03:39] you're special though [03:40] they're probably blacklisted or just unbuilt === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:42] or need a binary upload which it seems hardly anyone can do because they are self compiling compilers [03:44] ajmitch: Probably, so how do I ask to get them unblacklisted? [03:45] find out what Scott or Colin really want for their birthday [03:45] PS3? ;-) [03:46] bddebian: ask? [03:46] I am [03:46] you know who to ask [03:46] But I don't wanna :) [03:47] then I can't help [03:51] I've missed you honey [03:53] ahh, the good old days [03:53] heh === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has joined #ubuntu-motu === PuMpErNiCkEl [n=pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:00] LaserJock: you mean when everyone hugged each other & ponies ran free in the field? === LaserJock sighs [04:00] the good old days [04:00] "run free pony, run FREE!" [04:00] omg ponies! [04:01] "a stallion needs to run.. And run free.." === bddebian wonders if anyone remembers what's thats from [04:01] we may all be too young [04:02] Oh man.. === luisbg [n=LuisB_G@87.217.144.155] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-080-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:09] bddebian: don't worry, I'll be offline for the weekend, so you won't have to put up with me === fowlduck [n=nate@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:12] ajmitch: Bah, I love you man [04:12] hmm, that's an interesting hostmask [04:13] no you don't, admit it [04:13] I do === ajmitch is mean & heartless [04:13] And I'm growing more fond of Australia lately too ;-) [04:14] hah [04:14] it comes from dealign with php all day long [04:14] ew, nasty [04:14] What's nasty? [04:14] australia [04:14] ajmitch: is it web app kind of php? [04:14] LaserJock: quite [04:14] LaserJock: CRM web app === LaserJock isn't sure what all people use php for [04:14] ajmitch: Why because they don't want Sharia law? [04:15] no, because it's full of australians [04:16] hehe === jdong molds a statue of RMS out of cheesecake and string cheese === bddebian vomits === hub [n=hub@toronto-hs-216-138-231-194.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock eats it [04:18] jdong: does the statue pick its own foot and eat it? [04:18] Holy crap is nethack takign forever to eat [04:18] lotusleaf: no, it's lecturing me about my nvidia drivers [04:18] lotusleaf: haha [04:19] jdong: wouldn't it be funny if rms had a secret bunker where he ran nvidia and danced with an ipod all while laughing like a lunatic? [04:19] Oh crap that struck me funny jdong [04:19] lol [04:20] My wife is sitting here calling me a total freaking geek because I'm laughing so hard [04:20] lol [04:21] hysterically laughing while having an IRC client open tends to freak out the non-nerds [04:21] yeah [04:21] bddebian: you have irc there when your wife is around? [04:21] But she's reading over my shoulder and wondering wtf I'm laughing about :-) [04:21] no wonder you married folk are so bitter :-) === ajmitch is going to a wedding tomorrow [04:21] haha [04:22] not my own, of course === ajmitch has no time for life outside of irc [04:23] "nethack is takign forever to eat"?? WTF was I talking about? Sheesh === ajmitch just assumed the worst [04:24] s/eat/build/ [04:24] yeah, I was wondering [04:25] didn't want to say anything, thought maybe he's started eating Ubuntu too [04:25] Man, no mercy in here tonight [04:25] you should be used to it. You're married. [04:26] haha [04:26] I think my wife wanted to start an "Ubuntu widows support group" [04:27] heh [04:27] Motu-aholics Anonymous? [04:27] yep [04:28] I was thinking of a "You know you're and Ubuntu addict if:" wiki page [04:29] s/and/an/ [04:29] "You fly halfway across the world to meet up with fellow MOTUs for a drink & a few specs" [04:29] sleep seems very optional [04:29] who needs it? [04:30] bad news, LaserJock [04:30] I'm going a whole weekend without my computer [04:30] forget the seasons but know the release schedule by heart [04:30] feb 8th = feature freeze & uvf [04:30] dec 21st = debian import freeze === ajmitch is sad [04:30] motu superstars! === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:31] don't say any more, I'll realise how addicted I am [04:31] it's probably a bad sign that I have LP URLs memorized. [04:31] Shit no .desktop file :-( === ademan [n=dan@h-68-164-186-127.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:31] crimsun: well, a sign that LP's UI sucks [04:31] crimsun: a few of my friends work for LP [04:31] crimsun: lol [04:31] crimsun: well, it's worse when you know bug numbers BEFORE ubotu comes back with the blurb [04:32] you look at a new Core Duo2 laptop and think how much faster pbuilder will unpack [04:32] I always chuckle when I see Ubugtu announce bugs that are status rejected. 9/10 times seb has already poked. [04:32] LaserJock: didn't I plead tmpfs to you the other day? [04:32] yeah, yeah [04:33] LaserJock: seriously consider it :) [04:33] I think lvm+sbuild might work [04:33]