[06:05] <wasabi__> Keybuk: you around?
[06:05] <Keybuk> yup
[06:05] <Keybuk> what's up?
[06:05] <wasabi__> initramfs questions. Trying to boot a system, which seems to be fairly broken. At some point during the initram, the HD's get probed... repeatidly (as indicated by lights blinking on then off for 1 sec on the drives)
[06:05] <wasabi__> Trying to pinpoint it
[06:06] <wasabi__> break seems to get me there.
[06:06] <wasabi__> can I continue after breaking?
[06:06] <Keybuk> yeah, just exit the shell
[06:06] <wasabi__> hmm. gave me a panic last time I tried thta
[06:06] <Keybuk> which release?
[06:10] <wasabi__> feisty
[06:10] <wasabi__> looks like udev isn't kicking off.
[06:10] <wasabi__> it's um... the latest daily. I have this wonderful system here which has an intel d965.
[06:10] <wasabi__> So, nothing less than 2.6.18 works on it. ;0
[06:11] <wasabi__> The problem i was having is the device nodes weren't being created before mdadm ran
[06:11] <wasabi__> I ran udevd --daemon;udevtrigger;pkill udevd manually during premount
[06:11] <wasabi__> and then exit 0, and it continued, and worked.
[06:12] <_ion> There used to a problem with the run order of udev, lvm and md stuff, but i thought it was already fixed.
[06:14] <wasabi_> yay new working system
[06:14] <wasabi_> sorta.
[06:18] <Keybuk> oh
[06:18] <Keybuk> anything to do with lvm, md, evms, etc. is totally busted in feisty :p
[06:19] <wasabi_> nice.
[06:19] <wasabi_> well, got it working by hand... until i reboot again
[06:19] <Keybuk> doesn't it PREREQ="udev" ?
[06:19] <wasabi_> Yeah
[06:20] <wasabi_> Which doesn't exist in local-top
[06:20] <Keybuk> weird
[06:20] <wasabi_> Ahhhh.
[06:20] <wasabi_> udev is now in init-bottom and init-premount.
[06:20] <wasabi_> and not in local-top.
[06:21] <Keybuk> right
[06:21] <Keybuk> those happen first
[06:21] <Keybuk> well, premount does
[06:21] <wasabi_> how do the prereq's work though?
[06:21] <wasabi_> Aren't they only within the one script subdir
[06:21] <Keybuk> wonder if it's looping because udev doesn't exist :p
[06:21] <Keybuk> yeah
[06:21] <wasabi_> so, the prereq "udev" is unfulfillable.
[06:22] <wasabi_> ahh, yeah.
[06:22] <wasabi_> it's looping.
[06:22] <wasabi_> hence the HD noise. ;0
[06:22] <Keybuk> right
[06:22] <Keybuk> that's the bug then
[07:08] <treepio> Trying to make upstart-0.3.0 but I get alot of errors with: ./configure --prefix=/tree/temp/upstart --sysconfdir=/tree/etc -->some of my errors: make[2] : ***[cfgfile.o]  error 1, + alot of cfgfile errors
[07:10] <Keybuk> treepio: we'd need to see the actual errors
[07:11] <treepio> on another system, I hatve to type em all :)
[07:11] <Keybuk> unfortunately we can't see the other system's console, so don't know what they are unless you type them :-/
[07:12] <treepio> ../nih/io.h:221: warning: 'warn_unused_result' attribute directory ignored
[07:12] <Keybuk> that's just a warning
[07:13] <treepio> cfgfile.c:880: error: 'RLIMIT_NICE' undeclared (first use in this function)
[07:14] <treepio> cfgfile.c:880: error: 'each undeclared identifier is reported only once), cfgfile.c:880: error: for each function it appears in), 
[07:15] <treepio> cfgfile.c:880: error: 'RLIMIT_RTPRIO' undeclared (first use in this function)
[07:15] <AlexExtreme> missing include?
[07:15] <treepio> those are my 4 errors. Looks like I have made some basic mistake somewhere. alot of warnings and stuff
[07:18] <Keybuk> hmm
[07:18] <AlexExtreme> hmm
[07:18] <Keybuk> which version of kernel, glibc and gcc are you using?
[07:19] <AlexExtreme> does /usr/include/bits/resource.h exist for you?
[07:20] <Keybuk> those two limits were added in ~2.6.12 and I guess glibc 2.3.6
[07:21] <treepio> resource.h exist
[07:21] <treepio> kernel 2.4.31, gcc 3.3.6 .. checking glibc.
[07:22] <AlexExtreme> ah
[07:22] <AlexExtreme> 2.4.31 probably won't work, if they were added in 2.6.12
[07:24] <Keybuk> yeah, wayyyyy too old version of Linux :)
[07:24] <treepio> glibc: 2.3.5
[07:24] <AlexExtreme> definitely too old :)
[07:24] <treepio> bah :).. I'll boot into another system and try :)
[07:24] <AlexExtreme> what distro are you using, out of curiousity?
[07:24] <treepio> this isslackware
[07:24] <AlexExtreme> which ver?
[07:24] <AlexExtreme> 10.0?
[07:25] <treepio> 10.2
[07:25] <AlexExtreme> ah
[07:25] <Keybuk> upstart needs 2.6.12 or later, gcc 4, glibc 2.4 etc.
[07:25] <Keybuk> slackware still ships with 2.4 kernel?!
[07:25] <treepio> ok, let me see what fedora has
[07:25] <AlexExtreme> 11 ships with 2.6 afaik
[07:25] <AlexExtreme> but patrick really didn't want to have 2.6, don't ask me why :/
[07:26] <Keybuk> upstart isn't much use without 2.6 anyway
[07:26] <treepio> probably because he had to do alot of work :)
[07:26] <Keybuk> the entire point is that you'd want to use it with udev
[07:26] <treepio> I just want to try and build a system, and decided upstart looked nice, ruby and all.
[07:27] <Keybuk> most recent version of Ubuntu, Fedora and SuSE are all suitable
[07:27] <Keybuk> Debian etch should be as well I believe
[07:27] <treepio> I have FC5 on the comp I'm testing with
[07:28] <AlexExtreme> btw Keybuk, when will development on all these fancy new upstart features start? ;)
[07:28] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: I'm working on some of the lower level library changes at the moment
[07:28] <AlexExtreme> cool
[07:28] <Keybuk> I imagine I'll get to upstart next week, and probably do the bulk of them over december
[07:29] <AlexExtreme> sounds good
[07:30] <treepio> kernel: 2.6.18xxx, glibc: 2.4, gcc: 4.1.0
[07:30] <AlexExtreme> also, how do you get udev to emit events upon device additions/changes? add calls to initctl in the rules files?
[07:30] <AlexExtreme> treepio: that should work
[07:31] <treepio> AlexExtreme: thanks, I will try again
[07:31] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: yeah
[07:31] <Keybuk> I plan to patch udev to do it directly as well
[07:31] <AlexExtreme> ok
[07:32] <AlexExtreme> and one last question: will the development of the replacement initscripts take place in the respective packages themselves or in a bazaar/cvs/svn/whatever repo?
[07:33] <Keybuk> depends for which packages?
[07:33] <Keybuk> they'll certainly be shipped inside those
[07:33] <AlexExtreme> hmm
[07:33] <AlexExtreme> ok
[07:33] <Keybuk> but I suspect it'll be sensible to have a bazaar repository of them for people to use
[07:33] <AlexExtreme> yes, definitely
[07:33] <treepio> It's hard to learn the basics of linux..
[07:34] <treepio> No errors this time though, thanks.
[07:34] <AlexExtreme> :)
[07:37] <treepio> can I jsut take the example files and throw in event.d and just change the disk layout?
[07:39] <AlexExtreme> no
[07:39] <AlexExtreme> the example files are for ubuntu
[07:40] <treepio> oo
[07:40] <treepio> :/
[07:41] <Keybuk> replacing the init daemon of your system is quite a big undertaking for a novice
[07:41] <treepio> I have made my disk layout, fstab and inittab. now I decided to try upstart(looks nice). do I have to reqrite everything ?
[07:42] <treepio> Keybuk: you got it right. I am a nivice in this field.. so I decided to learn it.. Have to start somewhere
[07:42] <Keybuk> to do upstart properly, you'd need to write everything to boot your machine, yes
[07:42] <Keybuk> (in particular, upstart doesn't use inittab)
[07:42] <treepio> Problem is that upstart is so new, it's hard to find any info on it.
[07:42] <Keybuk> right
[07:42] <Keybuk> it's still being developed
[07:42] <treepio> hmm.
[07:43] <Keybuk> we're only just at the point where we're about to begin replacing init scripts with upstart jobs
[07:43] <treepio> Will I need to change much to have it work on my new system?. or should I just get the old unix or messy sysvinit stuff? (I will have to learn that too, so why not learn the good looking upstart)
[07:44] <treepio> Wouldn't it be nice to have 17 people in here instead of 16 ;)
[07:45] <treepio> Especially because I want to learn ruby too
[07:45] <Keybuk> if you're installing a Linux machine from scratch, without any distribution, I'd definitely start with upstart
[07:45] <Keybuk> it's just as useful as sysvinit today
[07:45] <treepio> Keybuk: the other inits got alot of help and howtos. Can you help me with the files I will need to change ?
[07:46] <treepio> For a start maby help me to find out how many and what files need changing
[07:46] <Keybuk> I'm confused a little
[07:46] <treepio> About what
[07:46] <Keybuk> are you taking an existing installation of Linux and attempting to modify it to use upstart
[07:46] <treepio> no
[07:46] <Keybuk> or are you trying to build a Linux install from scratch?
[07:46] <treepio> I'm using an existing distro to make a new
[07:47] <Keybuk> right, so you're modifying an existing installation?
[07:47] <treepio> no, I have made a seperate partition with empty dirs added fstab inittab and so.
[07:47] <Keybuk> ah I see
[07:48] <Keybuk> the first thing is you need to throw away that inittab file
[07:48] <Keybuk> instead you'd need to write /etc/event.d files to match what you originally put in there
[07:48] <treepio> I'm a pretty good sysadmin if I should say it myself.. but this, the basics are really hard.
[07:48] <treepio> Probably easy once I have made it work just once..
[07:48] <Keybuk> you'd need to write shell scripts to check and mount the disks, etc.
[07:49] <Keybuk> all the usual boot-time tasks
[07:50] <treepio> Keybuk: I can just change a few parameters in the example jobs right. I don't need something fancy. I just want to have it working and end up with a prompt someday.. then I can check and learn the scripts
[07:50] <Keybuk> right
[07:50] <Keybuk> the example jobs are based on the Debian / Ubuntu inittab
[07:50] <Keybuk> you'd need to tweak them to match a different distribution (init is gloriously inconsistent)
[07:50] <Keybuk> that'd make sure that the existing SysV scripts (/etc/rc*.d and /etc/init.d) are still run
[07:51] <treepio> I will try to look up an inittab from debian/ubuntu
[07:51] <treepio> Do I need those?, just removed the rc.d folder I had set up .. :)
[07:51] <Keybuk> you don't need them
[07:51] <Keybuk> but you do need what they did
[07:52] <Keybuk> if you don't want the rc.d scripts, you'd need to rewrite them as /etc/event.d jobs
[07:52] <treepio> Thanks, I want it real basic. don't care about compatibility .
[07:52] <Keybuk> tbh, if you wanted a REALLY quick start ...
[07:52] <Keybuk> you only need one file in /etc/event.d
[07:52] <Keybuk> :)
[07:52] <Keybuk> ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----
[07:52] <Keybuk> on startup
[07:52] <Keybuk> respawn /bin/bash
[07:52] <Keybuk> ---->8-------->8-------->8-------->8----
[07:52] <Keybuk> :p
[07:52] <AlexExtreme> pff :)
[07:53] <treepio> huh? :)
[07:53] <Keybuk> that'd give you a root shell, and keep it running
[07:53] <treepio> hehe
[07:53] <treepio> I want that.
[07:53] <AlexExtreme> you can just put init=/bin/bash on the kernel command line for that!
[07:53] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: true, but then it wouldn't be upstart supervised
[07:53] <AlexExtreme> although, that wouldn't respawn it and it would kernel panic when the shell exits :p
[07:54] <AlexExtreme> oh, and you'd need console owner ;)
[07:54] <_ion>     ;-)
[07:54] <treepio> No more panics, got enough problems with my cpu fan I died up with speaker cables.. the retention bracket is broken in all 4 corners :) so I tied it up with wires.. complains about heat problems.. hehe
[07:55] <_ion> treepio: Upstart isn't made in Ruby, it's C code.
[07:55] <Keybuk> _ion: cute
[07:56] <_ion> Wouldn't that example also need 'console owner', btw? :-)
[07:56] <Keybuk> yes
[07:56] <Keybuk> heh
[07:57] <AlexExtreme> i said that ;)
[07:58] <treepio> rebuilding upstart to the right location dunno why I made it in /tree/temp. :)
[08:00] <Keybuk> use --prefix=usr/ --exec-prefix=/ --sysconfdir=/etc
[08:00] <Keybuk> then install with make DESTDIR=/tree install
[08:00] <Keybuk> that'll do the right thing
[08:00] <treepio> ok built and ready.
[08:00] <_ion> /usr
[08:00] <Keybuk> likewise for things like libc, etc.
[08:00] <Keybuk> (admittedly, if I were building a Linux from scratch, I would do away with /usr <g>)
[08:01] <treepio> I did: ./configure prefix=/tree/usr sysconfdir=/tree/etc   (where /tree is a mounted partition)
[08:01] <Keybuk> treepio: the problem with that is that upstart will be looking for /tree when it boots
[08:01] <Keybuk> which won't exist if you mount that partition as the root
[08:01] <Keybuk> (/tree/usr will become /usr)
[08:01] <treepio> auch.
[08:02] <AlexExtreme> ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --exec-prefix=/ && make clean && make && make DESTDIR=/tree install
[08:02] <treepio> I will just rm -rf stuff again
[08:02] <treepio> AlexExtreme, Thanks
[08:37] <treepio> I will get on to installing bash, etc etc. Thanks for all your help so far.