[12:17] willvdl: yes, but we already have that [12:17] listening..... [12:17] :) [12:17] in bed..... [12:18] when is the next docteam meeting? [12:18] whenever we schedule one [12:18] ah, ok [12:18] LaserJock, again an edubuntu marketing team jsut dilutes the current one [12:18] willvdl: there is no kubuntu-doc team on LP [12:19] hmmm..... [12:19] agreed on that point: edubuntu-doc team is dilution [12:19] well, but it serves a purpose if you use it to house the marketing docs in bzr [12:19] agreed [12:19] I can see creating edubuntu-* if it is actually doing something [12:19] well, no reason why that can't be done out of ubuntu-marketing either [12:20] also helps with organization [12:20] perhaps, you'd have to talk with them about it [12:20] anyway, if you look at Kubuntu [12:20] exactly [12:21] who is quite a bit more different than Ubuntu then Edubuntu is [12:21] they have a rocking doc team [12:21] and I think a lot of it has to do with not trying to split everything up [12:22] agreed. no splitting :) [12:22] ;) [12:22] instead of creating new sub-teams, rather create spec/features that certain folk can subscribe too [12:22] so all that really needs to be done is getting people excited about joining the doc team [12:23] and the other way around [12:23] getting doc team excited about helping edubuntu :] [12:23] well, we have been [12:23] consistently [12:23] I know [12:23] laserjock, are we using svn/bzr? [12:23] and I've felt like Edubuntu has snubbed them time after time [12:24] working on it. [12:24] I know it's not intentional, but it gets a little old waving our hands saying "We're here and we want to help!" and nobody shows up [12:25] Mattew East even wrote an Edubuntu css for the docs [12:25] I said I'm always willing to commit things [12:25] nixternal has been fixing xml and maintaining a branch of the handbook [12:26] yeah, he's helped me quite a bit [12:26] so I'm not trying to be down on you at all [12:26] what about more svn access? [12:26] I've just been a bit frustrated for the last 9 months because I want to see Edubuntu docs rock but I'm not really in a position to write them myself [12:26] could i get svn access? [12:27] sure [12:27] svn access is not an issue [12:27] cool [12:27] all we ask is that the person be an edubuntu member and show that they can "play nice" with the XML [12:27] it was...but cool...that it isn't now [12:27] basically show you are a part of the team and send in some patches [12:28] ok.....how do iget myself on the lst [12:28] Mark helped us out there [12:28] i sent loads of patches in dapper [12:28] we did have quite a bit of a hard time getting new people added as elmo was very very busy [12:28] but that's "fixed" now [12:29] LaserJock, we can continue the doc discussion in the meeting tomorrow. [12:29] yep, but honestly, we welcome people to come [12:29] but generally nobody shows up [12:29] willvdl: unfortunately the Edubuntu meeting is 4:00am for me [12:29] I doubt I'll make it [12:29] edubuntu meeting is at 6am here tomorrow, which is 4am for LaserJock ;( [12:29] urk. it's 1:30 am now for me :) [12:29] if i am up at 6am, i will kill myself [12:29] anyway [12:30] I would just say that the doc team is eager to see action on the Edubuntu front [12:30] yes. I get the picture about the repo which is great. [12:31] and I personally will do whatever I can to help [12:31] get me svn ;) [12:31] ok [12:31] I'll talk to mdke about it tomorrow [12:31] cool [12:31] I know you can do valid docbook [12:31] RichEd wants some targeted marketing stuff (as mentioned above) which we'll all plan around still [12:32] yeah, what I can see is some differentiation there [12:32] and we'll rally contributions for the handbook which will be the mothership of info [12:32] it's getting much more urgent now [12:32] LaserJock: can I do valid docbook? [12:32] :P [12:32] theCore: most of the time ;-) [12:32] haha [12:33] willvdl: I would just say if you can to promote joining the doc team as well as a particular doc [12:33] i can't, so don't feel bad [12:33] sometimes people get a little overwhelmed [12:33] nn will [12:33] nixternal: you just commit to the wrong branch ;p [12:33] lol [12:33] ciao cbx33 [12:33] shush [12:33] cya cbx33 [12:33] i'm still here [12:34] lol [12:34] thought will was off [12:34] oh [12:34] almost [12:34] anyway, I'm excited for you to take this on willvdl [12:34] I'm paid too :) [12:35] lucky [12:35] I just wanted to "vent" some of my frustrations with Edubuntu docs over the last 9months [12:35] no worries. I need to know realities === dsas [n=dean@host-84-9-170-34.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:36] right i really am out now..... [12:36] shattered [12:36] likewise [12:36] good night guys [12:36] cbx33, I'll try to follow up in the morning or else I'll have to pick things up again tomorrow night [12:36] have a good meeting tomorrow [12:37] ok === PriceChild [n=pricechi@unaffiliated/pricechild] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:37] nn [12:37] LaserJock, thanks for your help [12:37] Hey there all.. [12:37] willvdl: np [12:37] hi PriceChild [12:37] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BerylOnEdgy needs its repositories and gpg key loaction changing... but it says not to edit it [12:37] What should I do? :) [12:38] LaserJock, wiki needs lots of maintenance too. working on that slowly [12:38] mhm [12:38] I'm trying to work on the MOTU wiki [12:38] I feel the pain [12:39] i need to go through and rip out pieces of the Ubuntu Documentation that will pertain directly to the Edubuntu Standalone section for sure [12:39] Anyone got any ideas for me before I just go ahead and edit the things? [12:39] PriceChild: well, I'm not sure, it's also got some pretty plain issues [12:39] I'm trying to remove deprecated and confusing stuff [12:39] the Handbook needs a lot of writing to still be done, more goods and less smiley faces in the content. I went through and easily pulled out 100+ :) in between ... [12:39] especially old planning and proposal pages [12:39] PriceChild: if you are sure go ahead and edit it and then email the ubuntu-doc list [12:40] nixternal: ugggg [12:40] hehe ya [12:40] do you know if https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation has current stff on it? [12:40] LaserJock: Because I _know_ that the amd64 repo is incorrect... I run one of the beryl mirrors and that's wrong. Also that key is _definately_ out of date. [12:40] i didn't catch them until I built it, because it turned blue making me think it was &fjfldka; [12:41] nixternal, like switching to dvorak key layout by mistake [12:41] willvdl: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook <- might want that listed there as well [12:42] hmmm, maybe I should rather use the CategoryCleanup idea rather. What's the status on that? [12:42] i had created https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/Management to manage the sections, in order to help those out that were running the project, but they like disappeared [12:43] the people or the section? [12:43] truthfully, i would rm -rf /*Handbook and start fresh, there is a lot of old info and unmaintained info...almost makes since to start fresh and take control from the beginning [12:43] yeah [12:43] LaserJock: Someone's messed that guide up... the Nvidia section's split in two for some reason and half will cause adverse affects instead of helping... [12:44] PriceChild: yep, I'd email the list [12:44] nixternal, was hoping you'd say that [12:44] good ol https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BerylOfCrap [12:44] nixternal: so is section 1 and 2 pretty much done? [12:44] nearly had a heart-attack - thought that was a valid link :) [12:45] hmm... do I have to sign up for the doc mailing list to send a message...? [12:45] lol [12:45] LaserJock: section 1 and 2 of what? the handbook? [12:45] yeah [12:45] PriceChild, to avoid the moderation queue, yip [12:45] oh no, they are half done at least, the ltsp portion definitely has the most content right now [12:45] i need to take a day and just write, as it seems we aren't ready for the topic based stuff just yet [12:46] need to start writing a new Kubuntu Desktop Guide as well. the current is stale and ugly to me [12:46] hmm [12:46] especially after researching the other distros documentation, it needs a lot of love [12:46] it does look like basically ESA + LTSP docs [12:47] nixternal: which distros? [12:47] opensuse? [12:47] willvdl: what's the email? I'd rather send it into the queue as I can't stand the mail [12:48] PriceChild: lists.ubuntu.com [12:48] willvdl: btw, Kubuntu docs are under https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc too [12:48] hmmm [12:49] ok, outa here. LaserJock, I'll look into intelligent use of LP for all of this, bounce it off at the meeting and take it from there [12:49] LaserJock: OpenSUSE, FC, Gentoo, Slackware, and more [12:49] willvdl: ok, good luck. I look forward to reading the meeting logs [12:49] and use the wiki for LP spec tracing which is what it is _meant_ for [12:49] nixternal: and who's docs did you like the best? :-) [12:49] OpenSUSE w/o a doubt [12:49] willvdl: mhm [12:50] steal them :) [12:50] steal them all [12:50] Gentoo has some really nice docs as well [12:50] their OS is garbage, but their docs are great [12:50] right. really leaving this time [12:50] g'night === PriceChild liked gentoo === willvdl [n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [12:52] nixternal: heh, I thought the OS was good but the docs not so much [12:54] you thought gentoo was good? [12:54] the gentoo docs and wiki are fairly elaborate..very well maintained [12:55] I ran Gentoo for over 2 years [12:55] dang, I'm getting the OpenSuse DVD at 4M/s [12:55] i think my longest running use of a Linux OS was probably Slackware, with SuSE and Debian a close 2nd [12:56] I've never installed Slackware once [12:56] not sure why, just never did [12:56] Slackware is fun, as you do all of the work, definitely not a newb friendly system [12:57] my order by longest using is Gentoo, Ubuntu, SuSE [12:57] heh, you just started with SuSE didn't you? [12:57] I've never run Debian on a desktop machine [12:57] nah, I ran SuSE between Gentoo and Ubuntu [12:58] desktop it was always Slackware and SuSE pretty much, I ran Debian for servers, and then for a few years ran Debian as a KDE dev desktop [12:59] right now Novell is the biggest reason I don't do much with suse [12:59] otherwise it seems like a really good distro [12:59] well, if I can get around that whole .rpm business ;-) [01:04] ya [01:04] im not used to rpms anymore either [01:05] well, I'm to the point where not being able to build a source package is sort of scary === PriceChild [n=pricechi@unaffiliated/pricechild] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Bye] [01:13] nixternal: I got the 3.6GB OpenSuse DVD .iso in 16 min. ;-) [01:13] nice [01:14] I love uni connections [01:21] i like the Mepis Doc Project wiki layout for a front page that they have. [01:21] lets steal it [01:22] :) [01:22] muhehe [01:22] http://www.mepis.org/docs/en/index.php/Main_Page [01:23] I like the boxes, but the content inside the boxes doesn't grab me [01:24] topically broken down, however their documentation isn't great [01:25] MEPIS supports a lot of hardware out-of-the-box. There is no need to download or install extra drivers. Most hardware will just work.... [01:25] Unfortunately even though most hardware will work, not all hardware will work [01:25] if i was a dog, i would be chasing my tail right now [01:29] Burgwork: i do see what you mean, Devices and General Knowledge Db both contain "hardware"...it is a little silly, but i like the fact everything is linked, big letters, and no scrolling to findi t (fluidity) [01:29] yep === kmitch87 [n=kyle@24.144.39.211] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kmitch87 [n=kyle@24.144.39.211] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === Admiral_Chicago [n=freddy@st074039212101.monm.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:44] nixternal: Bug #75549 [02:44] Malone bug 75549 in apt "Cannot upgrade Dapper->Edgy without update-manager" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/75549 [02:45] what is your take on this, I'm not sure what to do with it [02:50] well, it seems logical that would should say something about server installs [02:51] definitely a very valid point [02:51] LaserJock: i thought so, will the doc be updated soon? i'll bookmark the bug [02:51] i do it the "unreliable" way for every machine...editing source.list and doing the dist-upgrade [02:51] hasn't broke yet for me [02:51] nixternal: as do I [02:52] that is a wiki page, he can edit it or you can edit, or anyone can edit it to do the apt-get way for servers [02:54] well, we are encouraging people to use update-manager [02:54] not sure how you do it really. i don't think he does either [02:54] but the language should say something about server installs [02:55] so editing the sources would be the way to go for servers? [02:57] I'm not sure what Canonical/devs want to do [02:58] sudo mv sources.list sources && sed -e 's/edgy/feisty/' sources | sudo tee -a sources.list && sudo rm sources [02:58] that will provide him the sources.list to update, and then he can sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade from there [02:59] im sure there is a shorter way of doing the first line, i just can't remember, plus im a lil busy ;p [02:59] well, but the point isn't how so much [03:00] but what are we as a project supporting [03:00] okay i'll just edit the page [03:01] http://www.elfyourself.com/?userid=5692c75673810380ba8999dG06121216 [03:01] gahahahahahaha [03:01] my x-wife just sent that to me [03:04] Admiral_Chicago: maybe you should email the list [03:04] LaserJock: the doc list or the dev list? [03:05] doc first [03:05] okay will do. === theCore [n=alex@unaffiliated/thecore] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:31] Oh dear. [03:31] (See Mailing List) [03:31] tonyyarusso: yea it's a good question, (i sent it) [03:32] So Matthew Flaschen asked something, and Matthew Nuzum forwarded it to the doc team, where Matthew East will answer. :P [03:32] Admiral_Chicago: I'm just amused by the names ;) [03:33] But yes, the overall question does need to be addressed too === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === motin_ [n=motin@84-217-5-152.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:31] mdke_: ping === Burgundavia_ [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia__ [n=corey@S0106000fb085cc63.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyy [n=anthony@d235-240-148.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === motin_ [n=motin@84-217-13-165.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:53] Burgundavia: pong [08:53] hi mdke_ [08:54] hi rob [08:55] mdke_: got a UWN 24 article in the queu for the firdge [08:56] ah [08:56] ok [08:58] Burgundavia: approved [08:58] sweet [08:59] good job [09:05] mdke_: ping [09:05] somerville32: just ask === willvdl [n=will@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:09] mdke: Can you add two reoccurring monthly event on the fridge calendar, Wednesday @ 2200 UTC and Saturday @ 1500 UTC titled "Xubuntu Developer Team Meeting" with a link to the agenda at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [09:09] *events [09:10] Thanks. [09:10] somerville32: can you email them to fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com please? [09:10] if not, I can email them [09:11] Done. [09:11] :] [09:11] thanks [09:12] morning all [09:14] morning willvdl [09:15] New bug: #75542 in ubuntu-doc "Diagrams missing in PostfixBasicSetupHowto" [Wishlist,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/75542 [09:18] mdke, can we add release series to https://launchpad.net/products/distro-about-page etc? [09:20] willvdl: well, it's all a bit confused: we have a general ubuntu-doc product that we use for most launchpad activity (bug tracking), and of course there is distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs. That product you mention isn't really used. [09:21] mpt registered it, maybe he can tell you more about *why* he did so [09:21] ok, I'll ask him [09:22] I'm trying to get edubuntu "back in the fol" so am looking at launchpad, wiki.e.o, wiki.u.c and help.u.c [09:22] s/fol/fold/ [09:22] sure [09:24] I think probably the best thing to do is to use the LP ubuntu-doc product. we can discuss it on the mailing list and see what people think [09:24] yeah, we cahtted about that in here last night [09:24] want to bring edubuntu-docs into ubuntu-doc(just like kubuntu-doc) so as not to dilute the doc-team [09:25] but at the same time, some of our stuff is "marketing" related so we want to put it in svn but not package for release in ubuntu-doc necessarily [09:26] certainly [09:26] like the school-advocacy document [09:26] although what I'm not sure about is if "kubuntu-doc" or "edubuntu-doc" will end up being seperate products [09:27] yeah, I see. I can see a much more powerful argument for that than to have a separate product for each document [09:28] it just brings up the question of duplication since edubuntu is built on ubuntu [09:28] but again, if they are in the same repository, something tells me it should be the same product [09:28] well, there's stuff in the repo that is not part of the product so... [09:29] well, the idea is that you register the repository with the product [09:29] as a branch? or as a subdirectory in trunk? [09:30] https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/trunk [09:30] or as a branch, whatever is applicable [09:30] confusingly, that product has "main" and "trunk", which appear to be the same [09:30] don't like the branch idea. not sure it's technically correct [09:31] you'll see we don't really think about this much [09:31] :) [09:31] should we add edgy/dapper releases to above product? === rob [i=RobertSt@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:31] well, dapper is there. We should add Edgy [09:31] (I think) [09:32] I can do if ok with you. want to add more edubuntu stuff here and there anyway... [09:33] I'm not sure you have the right permissions [09:33] probably not [09:35] alright, done [09:35] thanks [09:36] I've added the relevant branch in our repository as the code, you don't think that's correct? [09:36] not with you? [09:36] 08:38:45 < willvdl> don't like the branch idea. not sure it's technically correct [09:37] https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-doc/edgy [09:37] as I understand, a branch is a parallel effort [09:37] whereas a tag is a snapshot [09:37] right, but we sometimes update our branches after branching or even after release [09:37] like by fixing critical bugs, or importing new translations [09:37] good point === mdke notes the time, runs for the shower [09:38] no you're right. branch is right === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc === XiXaQ [n=joerlend@146-191.dsl.freewave.no] has joined #Ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=kgoetz@unafilliated/kgoetz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:19] what licence is the doco released under? i seem to remember it was a CC+GFDL licence, but i just want to check [11:20] just CC now iirc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc === motin_ [n=motin@84.217.87.224] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyserver [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:21] share alike? [11:21] wonder if it says on the wiki...hm. [11:21] by SA [11:21] yep [11:22] thanks. [11:22] This document is made available under a dual license strategy that includes the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) and the Creative Commons ShareAlike 2.0 License (CC-BY-SA). [11:22] that's for edgy, for feisty its just the CC license iirc [11:22] blah i don't like CC, not to start a license flame wor [11:23] Admiral_Chicago: there was quite a bit of debate about it on the mailing list [11:23] Admiral_Chicago, we dont have anything better. :\ [11:23] Kamping_Kaiser: i'd just go for GNU, I think CC is too much "Protect some of the author's rights" [11:24] by having only one licence we can get material from other compatible license works and use them, with the dual license set up we couldn't from either [11:24] Admiral_Chicago, there isnt a good gnu doco/arwork licence though. [11:24] yep, to a point [11:24] that is true, for both those points [11:24] wikipedia is gfdl isn't it? === Kamping_Kaiser goes to figure out the best way to get an svn of dappers doco without the extra stuff [11:25] iirc yes [11:25] hmm, should be a branch for dapper I think in svn [11:26] only 5 files in my svn checkout with 'dapper' in the name, all images :/ [11:26] hmm, talk to mdke later about it then [11:27] ok. i'll try and catch him [11:27] thanks :) === motin_ [n=motin@84-217-82-119.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === somerville32 [n=somervil@fctnnbsc15w-156034086016.nb.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:06] mdke, you about yet? === Kamping_Kaiser will try and hang around another 30 min. [03:21] gnight all [03:21] i'll try and catch you another time mdk === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@196.36.161.235] has left #ubuntu-doc ["No] === XiXaQ [n=joerlend@249-191.dsl.freewave.no] has joined #Ubuntu-doc === XiXaQ_ [n=joerlend@54-191.dsl.freewave.no] has joined #Ubuntu-doc === motin [n=motin@84-217-6-167.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === motin [n=motin@84-217-10-47.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === _froud_ [n=froud@dsl-242-191-132.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === motin [n=motin@84-217-80-126.tn.glocalnet.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Ubug2 [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:56] hola LaserJock [07:58] hi nixternal === joachim-n [n=joachim@AC8F5D03.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@ip72-209-68-178.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:28] oh geeze, this wiki license thing is sure a pain [08:31] I am ignoring it === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-219-183.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@cpc2-stok6-0-0-cust37.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mihakriket [n=mihakrik@68-235-112-223.kntnny.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:01] Kamping_Kaiser: what's up? [10:07] Kamping_Kaiser: ah, I see the scrollback. It's at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/dapper === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === somerville32 [n=somervil@fctnnbsc15w-156034086016.nb.aliant.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas_ [n=dean@cpc2-stok6-0-0-cust37.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc