[12:12] <jdong> ack screw it, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
[12:12] <jdong> (read in French)
[12:12] <LaserJock> yeah, gotta know the essentials
[12:13] <jdong> there.
[12:13] <LaserJock> download
[12:13] <LaserJock> GPL should be the same :-)
[12:13] <sistpoty> *g*
[12:13] <LaserJock> and if it has euro signs next to it don't click
[12:13] <LaserJock> I had one package where the homepage was entirely Japanese
[12:13] <LaserJock> that was difficult
[12:14] <jdong> LaserJock: heh, I'd do better with that than French
[12:15] <jdong> fixable by a depmod -ae
[12:15] <jdong> argh, this is beyond frustrating to try to support
[12:20] <jdong> sistpoty: you don't need to duck unless you say you used a 3rd party repo or automatix to install it :D
[12:21] <tsmithe> yeah he does
[12:21] <tsmithe> non believer!
[12:21] <sistpoty> jdong: hm... earlier on, I'd say that I compiled it myself (the debian way though)... but with ubuntu I changed to stock kernel + stock binary module
[12:22] <jdong> the thing is
[12:22] <jdong> it seems like 3rd party 9631 is most likely to break
[12:22] <jdong> and in a very destructive manner too
[12:23] <jdong> nvidia_drv.o disappears from xorg's directory
[12:23] <jdong> but official drivers have been reported to break and require a depmod -ae, too
[12:23] <jdong> although it's all wildly inconsistent
[12:23] <LaserJock> jdong: what do you mean by "3rd party"?
[12:23] <jdong> LaserJock: like tsmithe or amaranth's repositories
[12:23] <jdong> LaserJock: that provide a modified lrm package with updated nvidia
[12:24] <Amaranth> jdong: nvidia_drv.o doesn't not exist
[12:24] <jdong> LaserJock: typically used by beryl-ites for their native indirect rendering, etc
[12:24] <jdong> Amaranth: .so?
[12:24] <Amaranth> jdong: it was replaced by nvidia_drv.so in the 9xxx series
[12:24] <Amaranth> my package includes it
[12:24] <jdong> that's what I meant
[12:24] <jdong> Amaranth: but the breakage cases I've seen, all nvidia* disappears
[12:24] <jdong> so does libglx*
[12:24] <Amaranth> how is that possible?
[12:24] <jdong> from /usr/lib/xorg{/drivers}
[12:24] <jdong> Amaranth: I DONT KNOW
[12:24] <jdong> that's what puzzles me :)
[12:25] <tsmithe> jdong, I don't provide a repo (not enough bandwidth)
[12:25] <jdong> and nobody has been able to reproduce it more than once
[12:25] <jdong> i.e. forcing a downgrade and re-upgrade cannot make the files disappear again
[12:25] <jdong> but clearly to begin with when I diagnosed their problems
[12:25] <jdong> all userspace nvidia vanished without a trace
[12:25] <Amaranth> tsmithe: You are the creator of envy?
[12:25] <jdong> but the kernel module was intact
[12:25] <tsmithe> Amaranth, errrr.... no
[12:26] <jdong> tsmithe: sorry, my misinformation
[12:26] <tsmithe> i am not alberto milone
[12:26] <tsmithe> :)
[12:26] <Amaranth> oh, that's who that is
[12:26] <tsmithe> :)
[12:28] <jdong> anyway
[12:28] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1882869
[12:28] <jdong> this is my attempt at centralizing a thread for this issue
[12:28] <jdong> it already has some interesting reports from users
[12:30] <sistpoty> hi minghua
[12:31] <minghua> hello sistpoty
[12:33] <Amaranth> jdong: oh shit, there is a new l-r-m in edgy-security?
[12:33] <Amaranth> jdong: that will force the uninstall of nvidia-glx
[12:34] <jdong> no no no
[12:34] <jdong> relax
[12:34] <Amaranth> and they will not be able to reinstall nvidia-glx until the 3rd party l-r-m is updated
[12:34] <jdong> no new l-r-m
[12:34] <Amaranth> it's a kernel?
[12:34] <jdong> just new l-i
[12:34] <jdong> right
[12:34] <jdong> new kernel
[12:34] <jdong> still ABI number 10
[12:34] <jdong> so IN THEORY nothing should break
[12:34] <jdong> however, many users are reporting such breakages
[12:34] <jdong> not  nearly as global as the famous dapper incident
[12:34] <jdong> but still enough that it doesn't sseem to be random
[12:35] <Burgwork> thanks for ffmpeg
[12:35] <Amaranth> jdong: does it remove nvidia-glx?
[12:36] <Amaranth> also, what the hell happened to the forums?
[12:36] <jdong> Amaranth: no, it doesn't remove nvidia-glx
[12:36] <jdong> Amaranth: but many files from nvidia-glx magically disappeard for some users
[12:36] <jdong> during the upgrade
[12:36] <jdong> Amaranth: which a reinstall of nvidia-glx fixed
[12:36] <jdong> again, very very very weird
[12:36] <jdong> I acn't explain how it happened
[12:36] <Amaranth> that is uncanny
[12:36] <jdong> Amaranth: what do you mean what happened to the forums?
[12:36] <Amaranth> jdong: the colors are all screwed up
[12:37] <jdong> I think it's called a "new theme"
[12:37] <jdong> I wasn't involved in that
[12:37] <jdong> so I can't say for sure
[12:37] <jdong> the brown->black is a new theme
[12:37] <jdong> I can't tell for sure if it's intended that way or still in adjustment
[12:37] <jdong> again, I don't do the artwork :)
[12:40] <jdong> heh
[12:55] <sistpoty> wb
[12:55] <LaserJock> hola ajmitch 
[12:56] <ajmitch> what's new?
[12:57] <jdong> LaserJock: you speak french? ;-)
[12:58] <LaserJock> but of course amigo
[01:02] <sistpoty> wee... colors in buildlog... never seen this before while building a package
[01:03] <jdong> apparently cmake based builds are colorful
[01:05] <jdong> aah crap I guess I wasn't supposed to cut that
[01:05] <sistpoty> scons this time... just really funny to have it in a buildlog *g*
[01:05] <jdong> anyone here who works in retail security?
[01:06] <jdong> or otherwise has suggestions for disabling the security thing they put on electronics boxes?
[01:06] <jdong> they left it on something I purchased
[01:06] <jdong> so I thought I was supposed to snip it off
[01:06] <jdong> but that obviously activated the alarm
[01:06] <jdong> (wow that was stupid in retrospect)
[01:07] <jdong> aah, I can't take it
[01:07] <jdong> help!
[01:08] <jdong> I'm beating it senseless with a 6-cell police-issue maglite
[01:08] <jdong> and it's still beeping louder than my fire alarm
[01:08] <jdong> my family here is pointing and laughing at me....
[01:09] <jdong> un believable
[01:09] <jdong> I have it in a hot water and hydrochloric acid solution
[01:10] <jdong> and it's still beeping
[01:10] <crimsun_> got a young niece/nephew?
[01:10] <jdong> and the resonation in the water is worse
[01:10] <LaserJock> umm, where did you get the HCL?
[01:10] <jdong> crimsun_: it's not gonna work better than a 15-pound maglite
[01:10] <crimsun_> (and the speed of sound bit...)
[01:10] <crimsun_> jdong: truly spoken as someone without kids
[01:10] <jdong> LaserJock: they sell it as industrial toilet bowl cleaner
[01:10] <LaserJock> heh
[01:10] <LaserJock> ah
[01:11] <jdong> LaserJock: actually I think it's supposed to be used as whitewash
[01:11] <jdong> as a sulfuric acid replacement
[01:11] <jdong> but it's not working :)
[01:11] <jdong> crimsun_: I was joking
[01:11] <jdong> crimsun_: I've got a 6-year-old younger sibling who I love dearly
[01:11] <crimsun_> kids have amazing comprehension
[01:12] <jdong> HA! YES! STOPPED IT
[01:12] <sistpoty> hehe, and I they even love things that make sounds
[01:12] <sistpoty> -I
[01:12] <jdong> who says this EMP device won't come in handy?
[01:13] <jdong> gotta love 2.5F of capacitance and a 4000-turn coil
[01:14] <jdong> is it friday the 13th and nobody told me?
[01:16] <jdong> there that was fun
[01:16] <jdong> now, jdong, what did we learn NOT to  do today....
[01:17] <zul> not to smoke crack
[01:18] <jdong> zul: no, that was yesterday
[01:18] <LaserJock> must be some left in your system
[01:18] <jdong> perhaps there was
[01:20] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[01:20] <jdong> night
[01:20] <jdong> zul: and in my defense nobody could've anticipated that there'd be an _alarm_ in the knobby security device thing
[01:21] <jdong> I thought it was just something used to activate the door alarm
[01:23] <zul> o..k
[01:24] <LaserJock> an ubuntu1 version overrides a build1 version doesn't it
[01:24] <jdong> u > b
[01:25] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes, it does
[01:26] <LaserJock> right, excellent
[01:26] <LaserJock> almost have my 2 Main srus done
[01:31] <LaserJock> bddebian!
[01:32] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[01:37] <fernando> hi all
[01:37] <ajmitch> uh oh, bddebian is here
[01:37] <bddebian> Hi fernando
[01:37] <bddebian> ajmitch: Hi to you too :-)
[01:40] <fernando> hey bddebian 
[02:16] <joejaxx> Hello everyone
[02:16] <joejaxx> i have an interesting question for you all :P
[02:17] <joejaxx> is there a way to install a debian package and restrict it from starting any services that might be linked to it at the time of the install?
[02:17] <joejaxx> for example
[02:17] <joejaxx> openssh-server
[02:18] <joejaxx> how could you stop it from from /etc/init.d/ssh start at the time of install
[02:18] <LaserJock> well, remove it's postinst :-)
[02:18] <joejaxx> LaserJock: well i meant without modifying the package :P
[02:19] <joejaxx> too bad there is not a sudo apt-get install blah --do-not-start-services
[02:20] <minghua> joejaxx: because dpkg/apt knows nothing about starting services
[02:20] <imbrandon> the debian way is not to have services installed that arent going to be run , unlike redhat etc where sendmail etc might be installed but not running
[02:20] <minghua> joejaxx: it only executes the postinst script
[02:20] <minghua> exactly what imbrandon said
[02:21] <joejaxx> i wonder how i can get hal to install then
[02:21] <minghua> that's also why openssh-server and openssh-client are split up
[02:21] <crimsun_> remove the call to setup_init in openssh-server.postinst
[02:21] <joejaxx> or i think that was the package
[02:21] <joejaxx> because i cannot have two hal instances running at the same time :P
[02:22] <joejaxx> crimsun_: yes but that calls for modifying the package which is bad in this case
[02:22] <crimsun_> hal instances? what precisely are you referring to?
[02:23] <crimsun_> hald? hald-runner? hald-addon-* ?
[02:23] <joejaxx> installing hal in a chroot environment
[02:23] <joejaxx> hald
[02:23] <joejaxx> i think that is the service if i remember correctly
[02:25] <joejaxx> you all probably think it is weird i am trying to do that lol
[02:26] <crimsun_> not really, since it works fine here.
[02:27] <joejaxx> crimsun_: hmmm
[02:27] <joejaxx> hold on let me see
[02:31] <joejaxx> it might not be hald then
[02:32] <joejaxx> hald i think is the one that takes a while for the service to start when installing the package
[02:32] <joejaxx> i can tell you in 8 minutes
[02:32] <joejaxx> i am debootstaping the os now
[02:33] <minghua> Hmm, so there is a Houston LoCo team...
[02:34] <joejaxx> AHHh
[02:34] <joejaxx> i know what it is now
[02:34] <joejaxx> it is acpi
[02:34] <joejaxx> acpid
[02:34] <joejaxx> that one
[02:35] <joejaxx> sorry about that hal installs it jut takes a WHILE for the daemon to start
[02:36] <keescook> hm, anyone used vmware-player on feisty?  Its fonts are trashed.  :(
[02:36] <imbrandon> no player
[02:36] <imbrandon> i have used console alot
[02:37] <imbrandon> e.g. vmware console
[02:37] <joejaxx> crimsun_: it is acpid
[02:52] <rmjb> why is it, when I choose dapper-backports on packages.ubuntu.com the results come up for edgy?
[02:55] <LaserJock> who knows :-)
[02:56] <imbrandon> zomg
[02:56] <imbrandon> look at the gid headlines
[02:56] <imbrandon> "Ubuntu Satanic Edition Released!!"
[02:56] <rmjb> i checked the url and it also has dapper-backports, so it seems something with the searching rather than the search form
[02:56] <Lathiat> thats old IIRC
[02:56] <Lathiat> like 2 months old
[02:56] <rmjb> imbrandon: where's that headline?
[02:56] <Lathiat> yay collectively memory of digg < goldfish ;)
[02:56] <imbrandon> rmjb: digg front page
[02:57] <Lathiat> according to some stats the collective memory of digg is ~30 days
[02:57] <Lathiat> before things start repeating again consistently
[02:58] <joejaxx> LaserJock: imbrandon 
[02:58] <jdong> Lathiat: FYI goldfish have >30day memory
[02:58] <joejaxx> riddle me that one
[02:58] <jdong> I used to train fish as a hobby
[02:59] <jdong> joejaxx: not again :P
[02:59] <joejaxx> jdong: really?
[02:59] <Lathiat> jdong: hence digg < goldfish? ;)
[02:59] <joejaxx> jdong: haha!
[02:59] <jdong> joejaxx: absolutely
[02:59] <jdong> they're not the brightest fish
[02:59] <jdong> but they are really really motivated by food
[02:59] <joejaxx> jdong: how long does it take
[02:59] <jdong> unlike some other fish
[02:59] <joejaxx> oh 
[02:59] <Lathiat> mythbusters did some stuff with them
[02:59] <Lathiat> that was interesting;
[02:59] <jdong> it takes about a week to get them to follow a stupid obstacle course
[02:59] <jdong> they respond to bright flourescent colors really well
[03:00] <jdong> and food ALONG the colors :)
[03:00] <jdong> but you can get the to swim in a distinct pattern along the bottom of the tank
[03:00] <jdong> but after they are trained, they will retain it for a long long time
[03:01] <jdong> and if you refresh them like every month with one dry run, they'll remember
[03:01] <joejaxx> jdong: wow
[03:01] <jdong> but I've left them alone for several months before, and they'll still kinda do the trick
[03:01] <jdong> though with a few flaws here and tehre
[03:01] <jdong> but that definitely proves they don't have a 3-second memory
[03:01] <jdong> so yeah, goldfish < digg :D
[03:02] <jdong> now enough of exposing more of my nerdiness
[03:02] <Lathiat> jdong: reverse digg,goldfish ;)
[03:02] <jdong> Lathiat: it's been a LONG day
[03:02] <jdong> :)
[03:07] <Lathiat> the mythbusters goldfish thing isnt on youtube
[03:07] <Lathiat> im dispapointed
[03:07] <Lathiat> i'll extract it later
[03:09] <crimsun_> no. Don't respond directly to me in a bug report. Don't mail me 4 MB jpg attachments, playlists, etc.
[03:09] <jdong> LOL
[03:09] <crimsun_> this bug reporting is getting out of hand.
[03:09] <jdong> crimsun_: I'm sorry :)
[03:10] <imbrandon> 4mb jpeg, wow crimsun_ 
[03:11] <crimsun_> apparently I'm still downloading the mpg that is attached.
[03:11] <imbrandon> zomg
[03:11] <rmjb> jdong: I saw the backport log for torrentflux
[03:11] <rmjb> you said you had it working on dapper?
[03:12] <jdong> rmjb: correct
[03:12] <jdong> rmjb: I have it running on my dapper server
[03:12] <jdong> rmjb: sup?
[03:12] <jdong> crimsun_: ha! a mpeg-2 screen cap?
[03:12] <rmjb> what does it take? just the edgy source files and debuild and install?
[03:12] <rmjb> I want to get it on my dapper server too
[03:13] <jdong> rmjb: pretty much yeah, bump down the version a bit with a ~ tag of some sort
[03:13] <jdong> rmjb: like append ~0rmjb1
[03:13] <rmjb> cool
[03:13] <rmjb> thanks
[03:13] <jdong> crimsun_: then I shouldn't be submitting my bugs in an h.264 encoded interpretive dance?
[03:14] <crimsun_> by all means, you -should-!
[03:14] <crimsun_> my killfile AI needs training anyhow
[03:15] <ajmitch> sigh, just got sistpoty's mail about the meeting date
[03:15] <jdong> :)
[03:15] <ajmitch> even though it was sent > 4 hours ago
[03:15] <jdong> crimsun_: on second thoughts I'll encode it in RealVideo4 :)
[03:21] <rmjb_> I probably got d/c before my last message made it so here it is again
[03:21] <rmjb_> jdong: since the backport for it to dapper is not complete, is there anything I should be aware of? any package I should have pre-installed? like mysql-client
[03:21] <jdong> rmjb you should have a fully functional LAMP stack installed
[03:21] <jdong> rmjb: including an operational mysql-server
[03:21] <jdong> and client
[03:21] <jdong> installed
[03:22] <jdong> rmjb: torrentflux postinst will want to set up the database for you
[03:22] <rmjb_> I have apache2, phpX and mysql from attempting mythtv before, so I should be set
[03:23] <jdong> cool
[03:23] <jdong> that'll do
[03:25] <imbrandon> dget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/a/apache2/apache2_2.2.3-3.2.dsc
[03:25] <imbrandon> gah
[03:25] <jdong> Password:
[03:26] <jdong> oh wait nvm
[03:26] <jdong> :D
[03:26] <imbrandon> heh
[03:27] <rmjb_> jdong: so what's needed to complete the backport?
[03:28] <jdong> rmjb_: it doesn't depend on anything else
[03:29] <jdong> rmjb_: heck since it's a php arch-neutral package you can just install the deb if you want
[03:29] <rmjb_> from edgy?
[03:30] <jdong> yeah sure why not :)
[03:30] <jdong> it's pretty safe to do
[03:30] <jdong> with this particular package
[03:31] <rmjb_> will give it a shot then
[03:46] <imbrandon> ajmitch: ping
[03:46] <ajmitch> imbrandon: pong
[03:46] <imbrandon> heya do you have that hook handy that lets the pbuilder install froim the results dir
[03:46] <imbrandon> from*
[03:47] <imbrandon> you know what one i'm talking about hehe
[03:53] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, I do
[03:53] <ajmitch> some of it is in the pbuilder config
[03:55] <imbrandon> thanks
[05:00] <imbrandon> hrm i think someone messed up
[05:00] <imbrandon> http://releases.ubuntu.com/  <-- isnt that supose to be the cd releases ?
[05:01] <Lathiat> yes, looks b0rk
[05:08] <Admiral_Chicago> that's not right...
[05:35] <kkubasik> Sorry if anyone here is also in ubuntu-desktop, as I just asked there, but here it goes
[05:35] <kkubasik>  I have an updated patch against our current gtk+ that adds search support to the file chooser
[05:35] <kkubasik> pretty wicked, I'm testing the build now, but need a hand figuring out how to get the patch into the gtk package
[05:35] <kkubasik>  so that I can approach ubuntu core with it
[05:58] <Simon80> I agree PFA is trollish, but she's on the line only
[05:58] <Simon80> just walks along it really
[05:59] <Simon80> shit, wrong chan
[05:59] <Simon80> err.. !ohmy
[05:59] <imbrandon> :)
[05:59] <Simon80> lol
[05:59] <Simon80> looks lik stepmania's going to be a while btw
[06:00] <Simon80> I'm trying to work with upstream to clean out the theme for the cvs version, if that is feasible in a quick fashion (this isn't entirely likely though) then I'll package that
[06:01] <ajmitch> Simon80: heh
[06:01] <Simon80> yeah
[06:01] <Simon80> well, I'm trying
[06:01] <Simon80> I really would like to sort it out so that it's no longer an issue
[06:02] <Simon80> but the culture around the game grew up around ripping off official songs, lol
[06:02] <Simon80> so they don't tend to meticulously document the copyright
[06:02] <Simon80> 3.9 though, not happening
[06:02] <Simon80> unless I find a purely legal theme to replace the default, and even that may not happen, the themes cascade, lol
[06:03] <Simon80> so I would maybe have to hack on it... and that's ridiculous, theming stepmania is ridiculous
[06:03] <Simon80> so at most I'll try to replace media for them if I have time and there's a need
[06:25] <somerville32> ...
[06:25] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: live in NZ
[06:26] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'm not sure that would help
[06:26] <ajmitch> sure it would
[06:26] <ajmitch> at least it's a nicer place to live
[06:27] <Hobbsee> hrm
[06:29] <imbrandon> gnight all
[06:29] <ajmitch> hight imbrandon 
[06:47] <crimsun_> Hobbsee: not sure what you're referring to wrt ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[06:48] <Hobbsee> crimsun_: the mailing list was going to everyone
[06:48] <crimsun_> right
[06:48] <Hobbsee> people complained, so i put the contact address as one of my other emails
[06:48] <Hobbsee> you're free to be an admin of it, and deal with it however, if you want
[06:49] <crimsun_> can we set up a mailing list for u-u-s?
[06:49] <Hobbsee> probably, but i've got no idea on how ot
[06:49] <Hobbsee> *to
[06:49] <crimsun_> that's pretty much what happened for motumedia, among others
[07:07] <minghua> Hobbsee: thanks for taking care of the ubuntu-universe-sponsors bugmail stuff
[07:08] <Hobbsee> minghua: ugh, yeah
[07:08] <Hobbsee> minghua: i'm seriously thinking about putting someone else in charge of it, so they dont screw it up
[07:11] <superm1> Is there a way to set a package's preinst to be dependent on being installed only after another package finishes setting up its conffiles?
[07:13] <minghua> Hobbsee: you were not screwing it up
[07:14] <superm1> better yet - would pre-depends cover this?
[07:14] <minghua> superm1: you mean preinst being *run*
[07:14] <minghua> ?
[07:14] <superm1> yes
[07:15] <Hobbsee> minghua: yes, launchpad is absolutely moronic, which is why i hadnt dealt with the mail crap before that
[07:15] <minghua> superm1: and what do you mean by "setting up its conffiles"?  the other package's postinst needs to be run first?
[07:16] <minghua> Hobbsee: you are doing good, don't worry :-)
[07:16] <superm1> well its not the other package's postinst doing it, its just a conffile that appears to get setup at the end of the install
[07:16] <Hobbsee> heh, okay
[07:17] <superm1> gdm in particular.  if i make my package dependent on gdm, i wanted my preinst to be able to read something from gdm.conf-custom
[07:17] <superm1> but its not existing unless gdm is fully installed
[07:18] <minghua> hmm, then how is it a conffile...
[07:19] <superm1> i'm assuming during install, its called gdm.conf-custom.dpkgNEW or something
[07:19] <superm1> to that nature
[07:19] <minghua> superm1: but it sounds like you need a Pre-Depends
[07:19] <superm1> yea thats what i'm thinkin i'm needing after looking at the DNMG
[07:19] <superm1> more closely
[07:20] <minghua> just for the record, there is no gdm.conf-custom conffile in Debian
[07:21] <superm1> but there is in Ubuntu
[07:21] <superm1> this package is gonna be ubuntu specific
[07:21] <superm1> :)
[07:21] <minghua> sure
[07:21] <minghua> I'm just saying :-)
[07:22] <superm1> thanks a bunch 
[07:22] <minghua> superm1: it sounds strange though
[07:22] <minghua> superm1: are you sure that file is listed in /var/lib/dpkg/info/gdm.conffiles?
[07:22] <superm1> well i just tested it and it worked
[07:22] <superm1> with a pre-depends
[07:23] <superm1> minghua, yes it is. cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/gdm.conffiles  | grep custom
[07:23] <superm1> /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom
[07:23] <minghua> enemies-of-carlotta?  that's a package name?
[07:24] <superm1> wow, weird name for a mailing list manager
[07:24] <minghua> superm1: okay thanks.  but people are supposed to modify that file, aren't they?  that would make upgrade unnecessarily painful.
[07:25] <minghua> superm1: yeah, I thought it's a game or something
[07:25] <superm1> well what i'm trying to do is provide an alternate file in a different directory, divert the original to a /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom-original, and then use a symlink to link /etc/gdm/gdm.conf-custom to my alternate file
[07:25] <superm1> the package is a metapackage that is trying to automate the configuration of several apps to fine tune a machine for a specific purpose
[07:25] <superm1> gdm in particular to setup an automatic login
[07:26] <superm1> and then if they scrap the metapackage, they'll get their original conffile back
[07:30] <superm1> minghua, is it against packaging rules to do something like this though?
[07:35] <minghua> superm1: I have not an expert on conffile handling or diversion, but sounds sane to me
[07:35] <minghua> superm1: except that people usually just divert a file and put another with the same name there, instead of doing a symlink
[07:35] <superm1> okay, its the only semisane solution i have been able to come up with the last week.  i've been trying lots of wacky things that i've never seen done before
[07:35] <superm1> well i tried that
[07:36] <superm1> but the problem is it becomes a conffile for this package
[07:36] <superm1> and you cant reverse the diversion, unless you purge the package
[07:36] <minghua> hmm, good point
[07:36] <superm1> which is a catch22 because you cant purge the package because the postrm would try to revert the diversion
[07:37] <minghua> things always become tricky when it comes to conffiles
[07:38] <superm1> so i'm just placing the conffiles that would have been used here in /etc/mythtv, so that they can still be conffiles, and the symlink gets blown away before reverting the diversion
[08:05] <Chandu> is there any way to add additional langauags (locales) without doing "dpkg-reconfigure locales" , thru any other command or scrip
[08:19] <crimsun_> Chandu: that method was deprecated as of dapper.
[08:20] <crimsun_> Chandu: if you use gnome, see System> Administration> Language Support
[08:20] <Chandu> crimsun_, ok
[08:20] <crimsun_> Chandu: otherwise you need to use locale-gen(8)
[08:21] <Chandu> crimsun_, If I use locale-gen ..will that lanague displays in gdm
[08:22] <crimsun_> Chandu: not my realm, but I don't think so
[08:22] <Chandu> crimsun_, ok
[08:22] <crimsun_> you'd be better off asking dholbach or seb128
[08:23] <Chandu> crimsun_, ok
[08:40] <somerville32> IS there a different between a MOTU and a ubuntu developer?
[08:41] <crimsun_> for all practical purposes, no. A Ubuntu developer can be thought of as a member of the Launchpad ubuntu-dev team, which includes anyone with universe upload privileges. Therefore, MOTU are Ubuntu developers.
[08:43] <crimsun_> By this definition, all paid Canonical employees that have universe upload privileges are Ubuntu developers, too.
[08:45] <crimsun_> In terms of roles, one could argue that MOTU concentrate on maintaining packages, whereas Ubuntu developers concentrate less on maintaining packages and rather implement specs.
[09:35] <\sh> moins
[09:38] <Sp4rKy> hi there
[09:38] <somerville32> Hi Sp4rKy 
[09:50] <dholbach> good morning
[09:59] <raphink> hi dholbach
[10:00] <dholbach> hey raphink
[10:03] <minghua> this "..." bug*
[10:04] <crimsun_> yeah, that's another one I killfiled
[10:14] <ajmitch> hi
[10:29] <dholbach> hi crimsun_, hi minghua, hi ajmitch :)
[10:35] <Sp4rKy> raphink: can i disturb you a few minutes ?
[10:51] <minghua> wow, so Debian import freeze is just one week away?
[10:51] <minghua> dholbach: the problem with scim in Ubuntu is that there are quite some other patches I don't understand
[10:52] <dholbach> minghua: are the people who wrote those patches all in the list you CCed in your mail?
[10:52] <minghua> dholbach: but sure, I'll have the feisty freeze dates in mind
[10:52] <minghua> dholbach: yes they are
[10:52] <dholbach> Ok - if you follow up to the mail and ask for help with merging the patch then that should be cool
[10:52] <dholbach> I'd prefer to get it done soon
[10:53] <minghua> dholbach: I remember hearing on #ubuntu-devel about the amd64 patch in scim, but forgot by whom
[10:53] <dholbach> so if problems creep up, we can eliminate them quickly before any freezes hit in
[10:53] <dholbach> hm, I just patched it once to include some other icon, but dropped the patch again
[10:53] <dholbach> so that's not much I know about scim ;-)
[10:53] <minghua> dholbach: sure, does end of year sounds early enough for you?
[10:53] <dholbach> that's cool
[10:54] <dholbach> I just didn't want it to wait on something happening in Debian, as it's frozen now and might take longer to be accepted there
[10:54] <dholbach> thanks a lot for working on this.
[10:55] <minghua> of course, I know how long a package can wait in NEW :-)
[10:55] <dholbach> right :-)
[11:34] <Adri2000> if upstream provides only a .tar.bz2, I have to repack it?
[12:11] <minghua> does anybody know who are the editors of "Behind Ubuntu"?
[12:12] <Hobbsee> as in the people interviews?
[12:13] <minghua> yes, and I also what to know the webmasters
[12:13] <Admiral_Chicago> Andreas Brunner  Eva Drud  Kenny Duffus Stefan Kohler Charlotte Nielsen  Christophe Sauthier and others
[12:13] <minghua> as the Chinese translations seem to be 404 now
[12:13] <Admiral_Chicago> according to the web page
[12:13] <Hobbsee> seaLne: is one
[12:13] <Hobbsee> dont know the irc nicks of the others
[12:14] <minghua> oh I missed the link to the team
[12:14] <minghua> thanks Admiral_Chicago
[12:19] <seaLne> minghua: lo
[12:21] <minghua> Hi seaLne.  First thanks for those interviews which I very much enjoy.  I wonder if you can fix the links to the Chinese translations (they are 404 now), or should I write an email to the team address?
[12:21] <seaLne> minghua: yeah i've been meaning to remove those links, the translations disapeared when they redid their website
[12:22] <seaLne> which was a pity
[02:48] <AnAnt> seen bddebian
[02:56] <AnAnt> what is dhelp ?
[02:57] <AnAnt> nevermind
[03:15] <AnAnt> I'm getting a message from pbuilder that package dhelp is not available, why is that ?
[03:31] <\sh> looks like that you don't have universe repositories in your pbuilder setup
[03:36] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:41] <\sh> hey barry
[03:42] <bddebian> Hi Stephan
[03:42] <\sh> hmmm...my LPIC-1 certification is in around 15 minutes...how nice
[03:46] <\sh> I wonder when the ubuntu lpi tests are available in germany
[03:47] <\sh> oh...it's already there
[03:48] <bddebian> heh
[04:04] <AnAnt> bddebian: hello !
[04:04] <AnAnt> bddebian: hide !
[04:05] <AnAnt> bddebian: ping
[04:16] <bddebian> Heya AnAnt
[04:16] <bddebian> AnAnt: No, to my knowledge I never built a package of the development version :-)
[04:16] <AnAnt> bddebian: ok
[04:17] <AnAnt> bddebian: btw, I get an error message from pbuilder that there is no candidate for dhelp package
[04:17] <AnAnt> bddebian: how did you build it ?
[04:18] <bddebian> dhelp?
[04:19] <bddebian> Hmm, we have dhelp afaik
[04:19] <bddebian> Is it a version issue?
[04:20] <AnAnt> nope
[05:07] <sistpoty|uni> hi folks
[05:08] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|uni
[05:08] <sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian
[05:23] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: just saw your comment for menareants
[05:23] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: hi :)
[05:23] <sistpoty|uni> hi Zic_ ;)
[05:23] <Zic_> siretart: Yes, I have many problems you see :
[05:24] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: what's the exact state of the data-files? can we distribute these as is?
[05:24] <Zic_> I've got the new package with cdbs, and I do separated package for source and data ... and server :)
[05:24] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: I saw... (btw.: the comment was from me, just in case you wonder)
[05:24] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the packaging is really nice now imo
[05:25] <Zic_> I'm asking the upstream wait :>
[05:25] <sistpoty|uni> kk
[05:28] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: He doesn't really understand the question, so I told him : You think distribute Men Are Ants like this is illegal ? Or the problem of licence is other things ?
[05:29] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: He said it's ok, no problem of illegal things :>
[05:29] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: for the orig.tar.gz, I don't understand, I don't touch it, so, I re-upload an other orig.tar.gz who I'm downloading now :)
[05:30] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the question about the data files was, if there are any data-files copied from any commercial stuff, that we couldn't distribute then (because we'd violate someone elses' license)
[05:31] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: I only found a link to a tar.bz2... is there one to a .tar.gz as well?
[05:31] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: if so, then use that very thing you downloaded without repacking it
[05:31] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Oh, => Finally, is not legal ^^ about McGerbale (Mc Donald funny derivate) "Obelisk of the NOD" from other licenced game and Gunther music in the "Crdits" menu ...
[05:32] <Zic_> He will fix that in the next release ...
[05:32] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: oh, that's bad then... we'll need to wait until that's fixed before we can upload it to ubuntu :(
[05:33] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: It's not a problem, he prefer uploading the next release any way :)
[05:33] <Zic_> (the upstream)
[05:33] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: if you only downloaded a .tar.bz2, you shouldn't unpack the tar, but rather run bunzip2 and gzip -9 on it (so that the .tar is completely unchanged)
[05:33] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: ok, great
[05:33] <Zic_> ah
[05:34] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: I download the "orig.tar.gz" in a directory ... with SVN ... So I make the orig.tar.gz myself ...
[05:34] <siretart> :)
[05:34] <sistpoty|uni> hi siretart 
[05:34] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Err, no, a mistake => I download a directory with SVN, so I make the orig.tar.gz myself
[05:34] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: ah, you did an svn-checkout?
[05:34] <Zic_> sorry :)
[05:35] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: yes :x
[05:35] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: I do this in the moment of Men Are Ants SVN version, is the same of release version
[05:36] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: if it's the same as the release, please use the tarball that's downloadable instead.
[05:36] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: ok :)
[05:37] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: about the Failled Build, you have an idea of provenance of its ?
[05:37] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: otherwise you should change the version of the package to s.th. like 0.3.3+svnYYYYMMDD-0ubuntu1 (if it was checked out later then the 0.3.3 release), to make it clear that it is based on svn
[05:37] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Hmm, I will take the tar.gz release so :)
[05:38] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: for the build, I guess you removed the configure file (maybe through make distclean or s.th.), but need it for building
[05:39] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: Else, you speak about a tar.bz2 "I only found a link to a tar.bz2... is there one to a .tar.gz as well?" I don't understand your sentence ...
[05:40] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: the download page of men are ants
[05:40] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: what can you download there?
[05:40] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: err ... I don't remove the command of clean this time, beacause I use cdbs and the rules is very little :>
[05:40] <Zic_> ah, wait :>
[05:40] <Zic_> https://gna.org/projects/menareants#options
[05:40] <Zic_> :)
[05:41] <Zic_> But, in this repository, their is no .gz or .bz2 files ...
[05:41] <Zic_> only the SVN
[05:42] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: I used the page you refer to in debian/copyright, there was a link to a .tar.bz2 ;)
[05:43] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: I have told the upstream for he will make a tar.gz, It's more simple :>
[05:43] <Zic_> a tar.gz of 0.3.3 of course
[05:43] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: yay, great :)
[05:44] <Zic_> so, for the configure file, what can I do to resolve the problem of building ?
[05:45] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: sorry, don't have a clue right now (and since I'm at university right now, I can't testbuild to see where it's coming from)
[05:46] <Zic_> ok :)
[05:47] <Zic_> Now I can do this : Upload a "good" orig.tar.gz in provenance of upstream, any other things in waiting a solution for the building ?
[05:49] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: you could ask if s.o. else would like to look at the build problem in the meantime ;)
[05:50] <Zic_> if you want, upload 34mo in revu is long anyway :>
[05:51] <Zic_> sistpoty|uni: for the debian/copyright, I don't modify anything, We will see it on the next release ...
[05:53] <sistpoty|uni> Zic_: ok, please also add a comment to revu stating that we'll need to wait for the next release
[05:55] <Zic_> ok :) thanks, I will go to a little moment, so I wish you a good evening :)
[07:15] <Adri2000> anyone has a quick tar command line to repack a tar.bz2 to tar.gz?
[07:16] <kallewoof> bunzip2 foo.tar.bz2 && gzip foo.tar
[07:17] <sistpoty|uni> Adri2000: if you need to repack to make an orig.tar.gz, you should use gzip -9 (for better compression)
[07:17] <Adri2000> ok, thanks
[07:27] <vil> ademan: ping
[07:28] <crimsun_> in order to speed the SRU for #19482 along, will five MOTU please test speex in edgy-proposed?
[07:28] <crimsun_> we really should discuss this at the MOTU meeting, too
[07:31] <ajmitch> hi
[07:32] <crimsun_> 'lo ajmitch 
[07:34] <kallewoof> Is there anyone around who'
[07:35] <kallewoof> +d be willing to look at a REVU package? (synchroedit -- there are two of them, actually)
[07:35] <ademan> vil: pong
[07:35] <vil> ademan: hi, I would like to talk about the speed problems, do you have a  few minutes?
[07:38] <proppy> oups not here
[07:42] <ademan> vil: sure i'm a bit sleepy but i'll do my best
[07:42] <crimsun_> kallewoof: urls/upids, please
[07:43] <ademan> it's nothing new, eclipse has always been slow for me, though i was suprised, i tried to change over from the GNU java to the sun JRE
[07:43] <ademan> which is supposed to yield a huge speed benefit
[07:44] <ademan> so i'm a bit confused
[07:44] <kallewoof> crimsun_: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3768
[07:44] <kallewoof> crimsun_: I presume that's what you mean. :)
[07:44] <crimsun_> yes
[07:45] <vil> ademan: could you please send me a tarball containing your c test-project so that I test it on the same setup?
[07:46] <ademan> sure, it's c++ and ugly code right now but sure
[07:47] <ademan> you want it as an email attachment or over IRC?
[07:47] <vil> i don't want to see any confidential stuff ;), i just don't use cdt, so i don't know how to use it
[07:47] <somerville32> crimsun_: I need your help in a bit. I'm having trouble getting ${python:Depends} to be replaced.
[07:47] <vil> upt to you
[07:49] <ademan> vil: well i think after seeing the code in it's current state is enough to convince anyone not to steal from it :-)
[07:49] <ademan> and i
[07:49] <ademan> 'll email it
[07:50] <crimsun_> kallewoof: 1) Please target feisty as the distribution, not edgy. 2) debian/init.d needs to create /var/run as necessary.
[07:50] <kallewoof> *fixes*
[07:51] <ademan> There you go vil
[07:52] <vil> ok, let me see
[07:54] <kallewoof> crimsun_: In a roundabout way, it is creating the /var/run stuff, but it's happening in the /usr/sbin/synchroedit-exec script, not in the init.d script. Should it be in init.d directly?
[07:58] <crimsun_> kallewoof: yes.
[07:59] <kallewoof> Alright. The reason it's in a separate script is because I'm grabbing the PID via $$. I'll have to figure out another solution. Thanks for the feedback!
[07:59] <ademan> vil: it probably won't compile unless you've got the libsdl-dev packages among other things, so don't worry about making it compile, but instead go into mgine/includes/mgine/Graphics.h and type Graphics::  after the second : it should seem to lock up for a minute, then a sort of tooltip will pop up with the class Graphics' members
[08:03] <vil> ademan: seems that i forgot c++ completely, where am i supposed to write the Graphics:: in that file?
[08:03] <vil> i don't get the tooltip
[08:05] <fernando> crimsun_: can you to review again? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3591 thank you
[08:06] <ademan> vil: hrm then try it within Graphics.cpp within one of the functions
[08:09] <crimsun_> fernando: 
[08:09] <crimsun_>   mrbayes_3.1.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: done.
[08:09] <crimsun_> Successfully uploaded packages.
[08:09] <crimsun_> fernando: thanks for your work!
[08:09] <fernando> crimsun_: thank you a million
[08:11] <vil> ademan: ok, now i get it. there was a small problem with -I pointing to your home
[08:11] <vil> I'll play with it for a while to see, if there is a problem or if it is a feature
[08:13] <ademan> oh the -I was because it's a library and eventually everything in mgine/include  is going into /usr/include, so by adding that path to -I i was able to use #include <>  rather than #include ""
[08:19] <bddebian> I give up on this stupid libparagui package :'-(
[08:20] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: what's wrong with it?
[08:21] <crimsun_> he keeps poking it with the wrong end of the stick.
[08:21] <sistpoty|uni> hehe
[08:21] <joejaxx> anyone know of a way to record a movie of what is happening on the desktop?
[08:22] <mr_pouit> with istanbul ?
[08:22] <joejaxx> sort of like import from imagemagick
[08:22] <joejaxx> except for movies
[08:22] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Stupid shlibs stuff still :-(
[08:22] <cbx33> joejaxx, xvidcap
[08:22] <joejaxx> mr_pouit: i will have to try that
[08:22] <joejaxx> cbx33: ok
[08:22] <cbx33> talking of which why isn't that in the repos yet?
[08:22] <cbx33> ;)
[08:23] <cbx33> oh it seems it is now
[08:23] <cbx33> sorry wasn't in dapper
[08:23] <cbx33> joejaxx, xvidcap is very easy to use ;)
[08:23] <Adri2000> whow, updating a package where upstream provides a debian/ dir, the diff.gz is horrible to read
[08:24] <cbx33> hehe
[08:24] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: but iirc, you were quite close with the last package on revu, weren't you?
[08:24] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: I thought so
[08:24] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: ... but?
[08:25] <crippledcanary> could anyone with an opinion have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3752 for me?
[08:25] <vil> ademan: did you try to run it with that sun java?
[08:25] <joejaxx> cbx33: alright thanks :)
[08:25] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: I changed the packagename to libparagui-1.1-8 and now I get:
[08:25] <bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/feisty/libparagui$ linda ../../pbuild-feisty/result/libparagui-1.1-8_1.1.8-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[08:25] <bddebian> W: libparagui-1.1-8; The library libparagui is not in a shlibs file.
[08:25] <Adri2000> crippledcanary: debian/dirs is probably useless
[08:26] <vil> ademan: with gcj the delay of the tooltip is about 5 secs here, with sun it is about a sec
[08:26] <Adri2000> crippledcanary: there are three extra blank lines at the end of the copyright file, you can remove them ;-)
[08:27] <joejaxx> cbx33: it does not look like it is in there now either
[08:28] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: imo you should just remove debian/libparagui1.1.shlibs, dh_makeshlibs should create a valid one for you
[08:28] <cbx33> pete@ubunt:~$ apt-cache search xvidcap
[08:28] <bddebian> Hmm
[08:28] <cbx33> xvidcap - Screen video capture for X
[08:28] <cbx33> no?
[08:28] <cbx33> if not get the deb from sourceforge....works fine
[08:28] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: But what about the packagename?  Should it be libparagui1.1 or libparagui-1.1?  The stable one is libparagui1.1
[08:28] <bddebian> Err 1.0
[08:29] <siretart> sistpoty|uni: you are still at uni?
[08:29] <bddebian> huhu siretart ;-)
[08:30] <bddebian> BTW, anyone know of any issues with libgnomevfs2-dev in feisty?
[08:30] <sistpoty|uni> siretart: yes... still fighting with the vhdl-interpreter :(
[08:30] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html, point 4 should give you a clue, hopefully
[08:31] <joejaxx> cbx33: You have searched for packages that names contain xvidcap in distribution edgy, all sections, and all architectures.
[08:31] <joejaxx> Can't find that package, at least not in that distribution and on that architecture.
[08:31] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: sorry, I cannot testbuild anything here at uni...
[08:31] <joejaxx> :P
[08:31] <joejaxx> cbx33: i will sf.net it
[08:31] <cbx33> ok
[08:31] <cbx33> hang on though
[08:31] <joejaxx> ok
[08:32] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: chapter 5/point 3 actually ;)
[08:32] <bddebian> :)
[08:33] <siretart> heyho bddebian 
[08:33] <crippledcanary> Adri2000: So it's quite Ok then.
[08:34] <Adri2000> crippledcanary: just looking quickly at the diff.gz, yes :)
[08:36] <crippledcanary> It's my first "real" .deb so thats good to hear.
[08:38] <bddebian> So according to that libparagui-1.1-8 should be correct afaict
[08:39] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I guess so
[08:39] <bddebian> Well SONAME is libparagui-1.1.so.8
[08:40] <sistpoty|uni> correct then :)
[08:43] <bddebian> Where should dh_makeshlibs go?
[08:46] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: imo right there, where it's in the last revu upload
[08:47] <bddebian> Oh, hehe
[08:49] <bddebian> Frickin FTBFS on mysql-query-browser :-(
[08:49] <siretart> ajmitch: around? I need your help as master of initramfs/mdadm guru
[09:01] <ajmitch> siretart: I'm here
[09:01] <ajmitch> siretart: I'm no master though :)
[09:01] <siretart> ajmitch: after upgrading to feisty, mdadm barks with 'mdadm: No devices listed in conf file were found'. Do you happen to know whats going on here?
[09:02] <ajmitch> it requires a valid mdadm.conf now
[09:02] <ajmitch> it shouldn't need much
[09:02] <ajmitch> there's also work blocked on a new udev upload
[09:02] <siretart> there is a /etc/mdadm.conf in initramfs, with 4 arrays mentioning some uuids
[09:02] <ajmitch> that should be enough\
[09:03] <ajmitch> at times I've had to wait for everything to timeout, and to be dropped to a shell
[09:03] <siretart> hm. on the 2nd look, my /dev/sd{a,b} are missing
[09:03] <siretart> grr
[09:03] <ajmitch> & then run the initramfs scripts
[09:03] <siretart> first, I need to manage to get my computer bootet
[09:03] <siretart> boot, even
[09:03] <ajmitch> the busybox shell in initramfs, that is
[09:03] <ajmitch> did you tell it to break, or did it timeout?
[09:03] <siretart> I told it to break
[09:04] <siretart> I didn't have the patience. ;)
[09:05] <ajmitch> wait for it, otherwise you probably won't get udev creating /dev/sd*
[09:05] <siretart> how is the ide driver called nowadays? sata_nv doesn't seem to be enough..
[09:05] <ajmitch> & then run /scripts/local-top/mdadm
[09:05] <siretart> ajmitch: I already upgraded. I'd like to actually use my system :)
[09:05] <ajmitch> 3 minutes isn't long
[09:05] <ajmitch> maybe 6 if you're using lvm on top :)
[09:06] <ajmitch> it's a known problem, not being fixed until various things are in place
[09:06] <siretart> I'm using root on lvm on raid
[09:06] <ajmitch> like me
[09:07] <siretart> hm. so how do I get my /dev/sd{a,b} back for now? ;)
[09:07] <ajmitch> reboot, let it timeout?
[09:07] <bddebian> How do I appropriately move the foo.so link from the foo to foo-dev package?
[09:07] <siretart> mmh
[09:07] <siretart> fair enough
[09:07] <ajmitch> or play with udev in initramfs
[09:08] <ajmitch> bddebian: foo-dev.install
[09:08] <ajmitch> don't match on /usr/lib/libfoo.so* in foo.install
[09:09] <bddebian> ajmitch: Ahh, thanks
[09:10] <siretart> ajmitch: this 'mdadm: No devices listed in conf file were found.' is still scary :/
[09:10] <ajmitch> sure is :)
[09:11] <siretart> ajmitch: btw, do you happen to know which bugno this is, I'd like to subscribe to that bug
[09:11] <ajmitch> but that's because it's racing against udev 
[09:11] <ajmitch> bug 75681
[09:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75681 in mdadm "initramfs script: race condition between sata and md" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75681
[09:12] <ajmitch> udev will trigger running mdadm in the future
[09:12] <ajmitch> so no racing
[09:12] <siretart> ah, now I see 2 new messages: "Volume group "hades_stripe" not found. So it actually found out the name of my volume group
[09:13] <ajmitch> 6 minutes seems like an awfully long time when waiting for it to timeout :)
[09:15] <crippledcanary> This is hopefully the last update to scribes. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3771
[09:15] <siretart> ajmitch: now I got dropped to initramfs
[09:15] <siretart> with 'ALERT! /dev/foo/root does not exist. Dropping to a shell!'
[09:15] <siretart> :/
[09:15] <ajmitch> yep
[09:16] <ajmitch> now  /scripts/local-top/mdadm
[09:16] <crippledcanary> What's the procedure to get someone that has the powers to advocate for it and get it into universe?
[09:16] <siretart> ah
[09:16] <ajmitch> then probably  /scripts/local-top/mdadm
[09:16] <ajmitch> sorry
[09:16] <ajmitch> next the lvm script
[09:16] <ajmitch> (assuming that the mdadm script found all raid arrays)
[09:16] <siretart> cool. this brought my volumes up. how to boot now?
[09:17] <ajmitch> ctrl+d
[09:17] <ajmitch> it should continue to boot as normal
[09:17] <crimsun_> crippledcanary: kill the trailing full stop in the one-line Description of scribes in debian/control . Also, the version should be 0.3-0ubuntu1 for the initial upload to Ubuntu.
[09:18] <siretart> ajmitch: wheee! thanks a lot! :)
[09:19] <ajmitch> crippledcanary: do you use dh_python, dh_pysupport, or dh_pycentral anywhere?
[09:19] <ajmitch> if you don't, then ${python:Depends} is ineffectual
[09:19] <crippledcanary> ajmitch: nope
[09:19] <ajmitch> siretart: no problem :)
[09:20] <zul> yeah you are going to be late...haha
[09:26] <superm1> crimsun_, I finally got approval from Hauppauge to host the firmware on Ubuntu servers & Mirrors.  Should I include the text of our email conversations (with my contacts email address removed) in debian/copyright for ivtv-firmware?
[09:26] <superm1> along with the OEM agreement and GPL license for the packaging of course
[09:26] <siretart> yay! X11 finally! :)
[09:26] <crimsun_> superm1: yes
[09:26] <superm1> okay great.  I'll get this together shortly
[09:27] <crimsun_> thanks!
[09:30] <joejaxx> cbx33: ping
[09:38] <ajmitch> siretart: got a box running now? :)
[09:38] <siretart> ajmitch: yepp. Currently merging zsh :)
[09:39] <ajmitch> excellent :)
[09:39] <ajmitch> great to have you back & active
[09:39] <ajmitch> do you have to defend your thesis?
[09:39] <siretart> I was bitten by #68467 as well, which left me with outdated l-r-m and nvidia-glx
[09:39] <siretart> bug #68467
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68467 in update-manager "restricted component lost from sources.list during upgrade" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68467
[09:39] <bddebian> I still get the libfoo is not in shlibs file, even with dh_makeshlibs :-(
[09:40] <LaserJock> bddebian: fix Universe yet? :-)
[09:41] <ajmitch> siretart: ah, I did a very selective upgrade of my desktop to feisty
[09:41] <ajmitch> picking & choosing packages in synaptic
[09:41] <ajmitch> until it was safe to do a dist-upgrade
[09:41] <siretart> this is what I tried with the upgrade to edgy
[09:41] <LaserJock> I just used update-manager
[09:41] <ajmitch> it worked out quite well
[09:41] <LaserJock> but most of the time it was on a fresh dapper or edgy install
[09:42] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't trust it to make wise choices in the first few weeks
[09:42] <siretart> and failed miserably: http://wiki.tauware.de/blog:edgyupgrade
[09:42] <ajmitch> since the archive will be in various states of brokenness
[09:43] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: have you looked inside the resulting deb (e.g. with mc) and checked if there is an shlibs file present?
[09:44] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: if not, I'd suggest you try to set debhelper to verbose and watch for the dh_makeshlibs call. maybe this will give you some hints why it doesn't create one
[09:45] <bddebian> LaserJock: No :-(
[09:45] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: OK, thx
[09:46] <ajmitch> the easier way being dpkg-deb -I file.deb shlibs
[09:46] <ajmitch> being able to pull various bits & pieces out of the binary package is useufl
[09:47] <bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/feisty/libparagui$ dpkg-deb -I ../../pbuild-feisty/result/libparagui-1.1-8_1.1.8-0ubuntu1_i386.deb shlibs
[09:47] <bddebian> libparagui-1.1 8 libparagui-1.1-8
[09:47] <LaserJock> ajmitch: niftly
[09:47] <bddebian> So linda is lying? :)
[09:48] <somerville32> Wow
[09:48] <somerville32> I can't type today
[09:49] <ajmitch> bddebian: stevenk wrote it, what do you think?
[09:49] <sistpoty|uni> haha
[09:52] <joejaxx> wow instanbul slows down the computer lol
[09:53] <bddebian> ajmitch: Wrote what, sorry?
[09:53] <ajmitch> linda
[09:54] <bddebian> Ohh :-)
[10:01] <sistpoty|uni> cya later
[10:01] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: Oh
[10:01] <bddebian> Hey
[10:01] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: what?
[10:01] <bddebian> If you get a free sec could you check that libparagui if you get a spare minute?
[10:02] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: did you upload it to revu?
[10:02] <somerville32> 0_o
[10:02] <bddebian> Aye
[10:02] <LaserJock> jdong: ping
[10:03] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I'll do that once I'm home (and probably after I ate s.th.)
[10:03] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: I just cannot build anything here at uni :(
[10:03] <bddebian> sistpoty|uni: NP.  Awesome, thanks
[10:03] <sistpoty|uni> l8ter folks
[10:04] <ajmitch> bye sistpoty|uni 
[10:04] <siretart> sistpoty|uni: gn8!
[10:04] <sistpoty|uni> gn8 siretart 
[10:07] <ajmitch> siretart: before you do any more merges, make sure you follow the merge policy about listing remaining ubuntu changes :)
[10:12] <siretart> ajmitch: damn! you're right, I missed the summary. I'm awfully sorry :(
[10:12] <siretart> hm. the next merge requires some binary NEW love first. hm
[10:12] <siretart> need to poke tollef 'bout that
[10:13] <bddebian> What has replaced libsvn-perl?
[10:18] <crimsun_> bddebian: nothing, source is just in depwait
[10:19] <bddebian> crimsun_: Ahh, thanks
[10:21] <cbx33> joejaxx, pong
[10:28] <vil> Ademan: ping
[10:29] <vil> Ademan: wo how long does it take before the tooltip displays?
[10:43] <jorgp> can someone help me with a packaging issue I can figure out
[10:43] <jorgp> I am using edgy, created a pbuilder env for edgy trying to package feisty's wine for edgy
[10:44] <LaserJock> jorgp: ok
[10:44] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
[10:44] <jorgp> pbuilder says it can not find libjack0.100.0-dev
[10:44] <proppy> does someone use vc-bzr ?
[10:44] <jorgp> but it is installed
[10:44] <ajmitch> jorgp: universe may not be enabled in your pbuilder setup
[10:45] <ajmitch> (assuming it's in universe)
[10:45] <jorgp> ah
[10:45] <crimsun_> it's universe.
[10:45] <ajmitch> right
[10:46] <jorgp> how do I add universe to pbuilder then
[10:46] <jorgp> nm
[10:46] <jorgp> i figured it out
[10:47] <jorgp> thanks for the help
[10:48] <jorgp> guess I have to re-create my build env once I add universe
[10:48] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
[10:50] <proppy> xb
[10:50] <proppy> oups
[10:52] <jorgp> sorry to bother you guys, the docs where quite clear
[10:53] <mr_pouit> jorgp: you only have to do pbuilder update -override-config (no need to recreate)
[10:53] <jorgp> yes, I just read that in the docs
[10:53] <mr_pouit> --override-config (missing hyphen, sorry)
[10:53] <jorgp> thank you mr_pouit 
[10:53] <mr_pouit> np :)
[11:00] <twager> Anyone upgraded from Edgy to Feisty ?
[11:00] <crimsun_> the dist-upgrade works fine today.
[11:01] <twager> Do you need the Feisty repos in sources list ??
[11:01] <LaserJock> well, that's the only way apt will know
[11:02] <jorgp> is feisty working better these days?
[11:02] <jorgp> last time I tried it about 1 week ago, the desktop would not fully load
[11:02] <twager> Ok...Is gksudo preferable to apt-=get ?
[11:02] <LaserJock> hmm, I've been running it for a while now with out any obvious problems
[11:03] <LaserJock> gksudo doesn't have anything to do with apt-get
[11:03] <twager> "update manager"
[11:03] <jorgp> it was probably vmware then
[11:03] <superm1> jorgp, there was something wrong with vmware about a week ago with segfaults, but for me at least i can still work now in it
[11:03] <jorgp> gnome 2.17.2 was to unstable to even be called a release
[11:04] <twager> Sorry...gksudo "update manager"
[11:04] <superm1> jorgp, but things were crashing left and right in vmware a week ao
[11:04] <jorgp> superm1, so you have it installed in vmware and its running fine now?
[11:04] <superm1> yes
[11:04] <jorgp> interesting
[11:04] <superm1> i installed off the herd 1 alternate
[11:04] <superm1> into a command line system
[11:04] <LaserJock> twager: well, sometimes update manager can be not quite right because things are changing. dist-upgrade is probably the best bet
[11:05] <Ademan> vil: sorry i was afk, it was a good 5 to 10 seconds
[11:05] <Ademan> pentium M 1.99 ghz
[11:05] <jorgp> superm1, so not using gnome with it?
[11:05] <twager> Ok Ta...Will give it a whirl now...
[11:06] <superm1> jorgp, na, the testing i'm doing doesn't need it
[11:06] <superm1> i have gdm, but not a full blown gnome in it
[11:06] <jorgp> superm1, makes sense.. it was the gnome desktop that I was having issues with, command line runs fine
[11:07] <superm1> jorgp, yea come to think of it, when  i had those crashes a week ago, everything was crashing when i isntalled from the full disk :)
[11:07] <vil> Ademan: at my laptop 1.4 celeron it is some 5 seconds
[11:07] <vil> Ademan: but only when running on gcj
[11:07] <vil> Ademan: sun-java makes it in 1 sec
[11:07] <jorgp> superm1, I guess if all you are doing is compiling and merging then command line is all you need
[11:07] <superm1> yup
[11:08] <vil> Ademan: I tried gcj-native but that does not help
[11:08] <vil> Ademan: so I would recommend to use sun-java to run eclipes
[11:08] <vil> Ademan: if you would have problem with that i can show you how
[11:09] <jorgp> I was using pbuilder to create edyg packages from feisty as to not bloat my system with devel packages
[11:10] <jorgp> like wine, in feisty a depend is libstdc++-4.0-dev for some reason
[11:10] <jorgp> I used gcc 4.1 with newest wine in gentoo, it runs fine
[11:11] <crimsun_> LaserJock: you won't be in/around Las Vegas on 12/20, will you?
[11:11] <LaserJock> no
[11:11] <LaserJock> you?
[11:11] <crimsun_> ok.
[11:12] <crimsun_> yes, it's a stopover to SNA
[11:12] <LaserJock> darn
[11:12] <LaserJock> I'll be getting ready to drive to Montana
[11:12] <LaserJock> 1000 snow covered miles  \o/
[11:12] <jorgp> that will be pretty
[11:13] <crimsun_> finally get a mini Ubuntu vac
[11:13] <LaserJock> yeah, just trying to think of ways to still do something with my parents 28.8 dialup
[11:13] <superm1> mini Ubuntu vac?
[11:14] <LaserJock> at least my inlaws have cable now
[11:14] <jelmer> Can somebody with admin access to revu please run "gpg --recv-keys 1eef5276" on that machine?
[11:14] <crimsun_> superm1: yes, a mythical vacation all things Ubuntu.
[11:14] <crimsun_> er, from all ...
[11:14] <superm1> ah hehe
[11:15] <ajmitch> crimsun_: for more than 12 hours?
[11:15] <crimsun_> ajmitch: yep, 12 hours and 1 minute.
[11:16] <LaserJock> crimsun_: they actually let you leave NC?
[11:16] <jelmer> hi ajmitch 
[11:16] <crimsun_> LaserJock: aye. I requested this leave 10 months ago.
[11:17] <ajmitch> hey jelmer 
[11:17] <LaserJock> I don't see why it's so hard
[11:17] <LaserJock> surely your school lets you take vacations better then that
[11:17] <crimsun_> it's not the school that ties things up, it's the agencies from which I have to get clearance
[11:18] <LaserJock> ah
[11:18] <crimsun_> (I'm flying with my folks to Hong Kong)
[11:18] <LaserJock> oh wow
[11:18] <jelmer> ajmitch: Any chance you can force an update of gpg keys on the revu machine? It's using a GPG key I revoked :-/
[11:20] <ajmitch> you have a new one on launchpad now?
[11:20] <ajmitch> removed the old key from lp as well?
[11:20] <jelmer> no, I revoked a couple of subkeys that were on a smartcard that got damaged
[11:21] <ajmitch> ah
[11:21] <ajmitch> it's just grabbing the keys from launchpad
[11:21] <jelmer> that should work - the key listed on launchpad is correct
[11:21] <ajmitch> ok
[11:21] <ajmitch> when did you revoke?
[11:22] <jelmer> Uhm, like 10 minutes ago :-) Is there a refresh rate or something?
[11:23] <ajmitch> nope, was just curious :)
[11:23] <ajmitch> syncing now
[11:25] <jelmer> ajmitch: thanks :-)
[11:30] <ajmitch> jelmer: should be done now
[11:32] <jelmer> ajmitch: Yep, that works. Thanks again :-)
[11:32] <ajmitch> no problem
[11:33] <Ademan> vil: i thought i was using sun java, i did sudo update-alternatives --config java and selected the sun java, that's all right?
[11:34] <Ademan> i only needed the sun-java-jre package right?
[11:34] <vil> Ademan: that updates the java, javac and so on
[11:34] <vil> Ademan: however eclipse is started with a shell script, which picks one jvm for you
[11:34] <Ademan> oooohhhh
[11:34] <Ademan> well that might explain it
[11:34] <vil> Ademan: sun-java-jre is fine
[11:36] <vil> Ademan: for example you can put JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun in ~/.eclipse/eclipserc
[11:37] <Ademan> vil: hrm, ok, maybe we should change that, i mean, shouldn't it just use the java specified by the system?
[11:38] <vil> Ademan: maybe
[11:38] <Ademan> it seems reduntant for it to provide its own way to select alternative JVMs
[11:38] <vil> try ask doko
[11:38] <Ademan> good point
[11:39] <Ademan> i see no reason to disallow overriding the jvm on the command line, but otherwise, i woudl think it'd be good to use the jvm the system says to use
[11:39] <Ademan> does the eclipserc need a shabang?
[11:40] <vil> nope
[11:40] <Ademan> hrm, well then it seems to still be slow
[11:40] <vil> what happens if you run echo $JAVA_HOME ?
[11:41] <Ademan> nothing, maybe i could set $JAVA_HOME in bashrc just for a test
[11:42] <LaserJock> jdong: sorry, I pinged you a while back
[11:42] <jdong> LaserJock: <PMS> what do you want </PMS>
[11:42] <jdong> :)
[11:42] <Ademan> vil: way faster, but i'd say it's still slow
[11:42] <LaserJock> umm, maybe not them ;-)
[11:42] <Ademan> i know it's not up to us, but i feel like the tooltip should be propagated in a different thread, so at least it doesn't lock up input
[11:43] <vil> Ademan: if you are more interrested in the eclipse startup, have a look at `which eclipse`
[11:44] <vil> i would guess that the hits can be disabled somehow, but i don't know where. also better to have the hints.
[11:45] <vil> going to bed
[11:45] <vil> see you later
[11:45] <Ademan> night vil
[11:45] <Ademan> good work by the way
[11:45] <vil> :) thanks
[11:47] <vil> did you see bug #72212 ?
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72212 in Ubuntu "Developers don't get enough thanks" [High,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72212
[11:47] <vil> i don't feel like that
[11:47] <Ademan> lol
[11:48] <PuMpErNiCkEl> thanks++
[11:48] <jdong> that bug was sweet and thoughtful at first
[11:48] <jdong> but now it's just clouding my launchpad folder
[11:48] <LaserJock> nah, we just get more silly bugs
[11:48] <Ademan> maybe splash screens coudl have credits as well, dunno
[11:49] <Ademan> is there a character limit for the description in debian/rules ?
[11:49] <LaserJock> haha, "Your X.org is not working because of the dedicated work of :"
[11:50] <jdong> Ademan: it's already there. You have to press left shift, right shift, F8 F9 F10 F1 F1 F1 left CTRL, up arrow down arrow
[11:50] <jdong> before the splash goes away
[11:50] <jdong> then the splash list will come up
[11:50] <Ademan> ah of course!
[11:50] <Ademan> A B A B B C LEFT RIGHT DOWN START
[11:50] <LaserJock> man, I was horrible at those
[11:51] <superm1> your sure its not         B A START? :)
[11:51] <LaserJock> more or less random patterns and then you have some super-duper weapon of doom
[11:51] <jdong> LaserJock: I see you use my Mortal Kombat strategy
[11:52] <LaserJock> my little cousins usually kick my butt
[11:52] <Ademan> lol, i remember i used to have dark forces, which was basically doom with star wars sprites, and there was this one level where you got lowered into a pit with a kell dragon with only your fist, and I had to type in 'laimlame' (lucasarts i'm lame) before it killed me :-)
[11:52] <LaserJock> sometimes the "hit all the buttons at once" trick works though and I laugh at them ;-)
[11:52] <bddebian> Later gang
[11:52] <Ademan> but yeah, back on topic, is there a character limit for descriptions in debian/rule ?
[11:53] <Ademan> rules even
[11:53] <LaserJock> bddebian: didn't even know you were here :/
[11:53] <LaserJock> bddebian: cya
[11:53] <bddebian> :)
[11:53] <bddebian> I'll be back in a few ;-)
[11:53] <LaserJock> Ademan: not sure, just don't push it :-)
[11:54] <Ademan> LaserJock: well i was thinking the end user "experience" could really benefit from some embedded xhtml with a standard set of style sheets as part of synaptic or adept
[11:54] <Ademan> plus longer and more descriptive descriptions would be nice too :-)
[11:54] <LaserJock> well
[11:54] <LaserJock> gnome-app-install is supposed to be for that
[11:55] <Ademan> i suppose, but how many apps does gnome-app-install really show you?
[11:55] <Ademan> honestly..
[11:55] <LaserJock> although i agree that package descriptions could often be improved
[11:55] <Ademan> i think i installed my first app in ubuntu through it, since then, nothing, haven't opened it in months
[11:55] <LaserJock> a lot if you want it too
[11:55] <Ademan> how so?
[11:55] <LaserJock> it's all .desktop files
[11:55] <Ademan> seemed very limited
[11:56] <LaserJock> well, you don't want it to be unwieldly for the user
[11:56] <LaserJock> it's hard with something like 20,000 different packages to give something "easy" for the user
[11:57] <LaserJock> you end up either telling them what the want or relying on them knowing a pretty good idea of what they want
[11:57] <Ademan> right, but honestly i don't think i saw half of the apps that were available to me in synaptic, but maybe that's cause i didn't have universe and multivers at that point... i dunno
[11:57] <LaserJock> right
[11:57] <LaserJock> gnome-app-install isn't supposed to give you everything that's in the repos
[11:58] <LaserJock> it's more under the "telling the user what they want" category
[11:58] <Ademan> meh
[11:58] <LaserJock> what makes it even more difficult is that we'd have to go through Debian to change the descriptions anyway
[11:58] <Ademan> also, why does the user have to manually enable universe and multiverse? i would have thought that at least universe could be enabled by default if it was legal issues
[11:59] <LaserJock> it's not legal
[11:59] <LaserJock> and I think they will be for Feisty
[11:59] <Ademan> ah
[11:59] <Ademan> ok cool
[11:59] <LaserJock> but it was originally designed so that users new when the crossed the "supported" vs "unsupported"  boundary
[11:59] <LaserJock> I think
[12:00] <Ademan> yeah, but there's so much cool stuff in those repos?
[12:00] <VoX> win 36
[12:00] <VoX> aw
[12:00] <Ademan> ? = !
[12:00] <LaserJock> Ademan: that's not the point
[12:00] <Ademan> no i know
[12:00] <LaserJock> but I totally know what you're saying
[12:00] <LaserJock> virtually all users will want Universe apps I think
[12:00] <LaserJock> even if they are a couple
[12:01] <Ademan> one last thing, i heard someone talking about moving drivers out of kernel space and into user space, and that would eliminate the legal issues with binary blobs, and increase stability, i forgot the article, but it was very convincing
[12:02] <Simon80> ademan, that's waaay far out there
[12:02] <Simon80> and it would only skirt around the legal issue
[12:02] <Ademan> meh, i know that in windows the user->kernel space switch in d3d significantly slowed down rendering
[12:02] <Simon80> it's definitely not the technically best way to do things, or else it would have been implemented that way in the first place, for whatever driver in question
[12:03] <LaserJock> for some reason I'm starting to get this "GPL is viral, in a bad way" thing
[12:03] <Ademan> i think if the GPL wasn't viral linux wouldn't be half of what it is today
[12:03] <LaserJock> I'm starting to suspect that I'd never want to GPL anything I work on
[12:04] <Ademan> heh, i'm GPLing my game engine
[12:04] <Ademan> well, when and if i ever release it
[12:04] <Ademan> and if i don't get disgusted with my code halfway through it as i usually do
[12:04] <LaserJock> in the my field we have a couple really good libraries that are GPL'd
[12:04] <Ademan> LaserJock: what's your field?
[12:04] <LaserJock> Chemistry
[12:04] <Ademan> ah
[12:04] <LaserJock> and I'm seeing some issues come up
[12:04] <Ademan> well i guess just deal with the license
[12:05] <LaserJock> because researchers can't use the GPL
[12:05] <LaserJock> for whatever reason
[12:05] <LaserJock> and hence can't use the library
[12:05] <LaserJock> it seems sort of antiproductive
[12:05] <LaserJock> so people go off and write proprietary stuff instead
[12:06] <LaserJock> seems like a shame
[12:06] <Ademan> researchers can't use GPL? wtf...
[12:06] <Ademan> well yeah, then you "get to" reinvent the wheel
[12:06] <Ademan> anyways i'm off, i gotta have lunch i'm starving
[12:06] <Ademan> later all
[12:06] <LaserJock> yeah, some funding agencies have requirements that wouldn't allow GPL
[12:07] <LaserJock> though they aren't opposed to open source, I don' t think
[12:08] <Simon80> Laserjock, it's not the FOSS community's fault such funding requirements are in place
[12:08] <Simon80> .: don't blame them when such requirements hamper productivity
[12:08] <LaserJock> well, I think it could be the license's fault
[12:09] <LaserJock> the funding agencies requirements weren't unreasonable
[12:09] <Simon80> why aren't they unreasonable?
[12:09] <LaserJock> although I can't remember specifically what they were :/
[12:10] <LaserJock> because it wasn't that they said you couldn't open source
[12:10] <Simon80> think about it this way - someone releases a chunk of code absolutely for free, with the condition that you don't take the code for yourself without offering your users the freedoms they originally offered
[12:11] <Simon80> how can you complain if you don't want to respect those conditions?
[12:12] <LaserJock> because I want to allow people to use non-GPL licenses
[12:13] <LaserJock> if I'm providing a library to the world I want to make sure that as many people as possible can use it