[12:31] <Riddell> mhb: what's not translated from system settings?
[12:32] <mhb> Riddell: userconfig, displayconfig names
[12:33] <mhb> Riddell: in Feisty (and in Edgy too, last time I checked)
[12:33] <mhb> Riddell: I think that had to do with wrong .mo filenames
[12:49] <imbrandon> seele: afaik no
[05:00] <seele> DC LoCo are some nice people
[05:02] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato
[05:02] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee!
[05:02] <seele> hihi Hobbsee
[05:02] <seele> hiya Jucato
[05:02] <Jucato> hi seele! :)
[05:03] <Jucato> seele: everytime I eat chocolates, I remember your nick :P
[05:03] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:03] <Hobbsee> mmm...chocolate
[05:04] <Jucato> I had chocolate overload this week... :)
[05:22] <manchicken> How goes it folks?
[05:23] <Hobbsee> cold!
[05:24] <manchicken> heh
[05:24] <Hobbsee> and i have to go to work today, and multiply myself somehow
[05:26] <manchicken> I'm done working for the remainder of 2006.
[05:26] <manchicken> Paid time off is a beautiful thing.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> Jucato: no, that'll just make me colder, i think :P
[05:26] <manchicken> Lots of feisty updates....
[05:26] <Jucato> hehe :)
[05:26] <Hobbsee> manchicken: lukcy.  so you can fix all of kubuntu while you're off?
[05:27] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you on feisty now?
[05:27] <manchicken> heh
[05:27] <Hobbsee> Jucato: of course
[05:27] <manchicken> I'm working on kde-systemsettings.
[05:27] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i saw :)
[05:27] <Jucato> manchicken: tabs? :)
[05:27] <manchicken> I hope to have a nice hefty patch for kde-systemsettings by EOY.
[05:27] <manchicken> Yeah.
[05:27] <manchicken> I already have had quite a bit of success.
[05:27] <Jucato> please don't take out the search feature, even if people barely use it :)
[05:27] <Hobbsee> modules nto loaded hopefully, too
[05:27] <Hobbsee> Jucato: +1
[05:27] <manchicken> Actually that's the only thing really holding me back right now.
[05:27] <manchicken> But I have a plan to fix it.
[05:28] <manchicken> I was hoping I was going to be able to scrap the widget stack control, but no such luck.
[05:28] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:28] <Jucato> might want to talk with el too, as she worked on it for edgy
[05:28] <manchicken> It makes life easier to pull the service controls in and it is the only way that I can think of keeping search in without confusing folks.
[05:29] <manchicken> It comes down to that I hate XMLUI.
[05:29] <manchicken> I hate it.
[05:29] <manchicken> It comes across as lazy.
[05:29] <manchicken> Though it makes too much sense for kde-systemsettings.
[05:29] <Jucato> they're trying to change it to LiveUI for KDE 4
[05:30] <Hobbsee> nixternal: ping?
[05:31] <manchicken> I'm just so against a lot of the mark-up languages for UI stuff.
[05:31] <Jucato> although it does make it a bit easier to change things around, I think...
[05:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: pong?
[05:32] <manchicken> That's what I'm saying.
[05:32] <manchicken> I hate it... but it makes sense for systemsettings.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> nixternal: what's the story with kvpnc?  a new sync?
[05:33] <nixternal> yes
[05:33] <nixternal> fboudra uploaded it to debian experimental
[05:33] <Hobbsee> does it add the menu dependancy?
[05:33] <nixternal> it closes every kvpnc bug (5 of them) on malone
[05:33] <nixternal> yes, the menu dependency is in there
[05:33] <manchicken> kvpnc really needs some work.
[05:33] <nixternal> manchicken: the new release has had a lot of work
[05:33] <manchicken> Good.
[05:34] <nixternal> they closed pretty much every debian bug and ubuntu bug known
[05:34] <Hobbsee> manchicken: poke fabo about it.
[05:34] <manchicken> I love the program, but it's got a bad track record.
[05:34] <Hobbsee> nixternal: excellent :)
[05:34] <Hobbsee> manchicken: yeah, well.  it hasnt previously had much love in ubuntu
[05:34] <nixternal> ya Hobbsee that is why i requested the sync from experimental
[05:34] <Hobbsee> sounds good to me
[05:34] <nixternal> once it is tweaked and tested in feisty, we can go ahead and backport it to edgy and dapper eventually
[05:35] <manchicken> I'm the kinda lazy hacker who sees no need to modify files if there's a GUI management app available.
[05:35] <Hobbsee> oops
[05:35] <Hobbsee> i cant unsubscribe a group
[05:35] <manchicken> kvpnc works... though it's been kinda crappy from time to time.
[05:36] <Hobbsee> gah.  i'm doing really well today...
[05:37] <Hobbsee> nixternal: right, ack'd the correct bug
[05:45] <manchicken> Grumble...
[05:45] <manchicken> I'm gonna have to reboot.
[05:45] <Hobbsee> what for?  kernel update?
[05:45] <manchicken> Yeah.
[05:45] <manchicken> 15 days uptime.
[05:46] <manchicken> It's interesting... suspend doesn't count against uptime.
[05:46] <manchicken> Kubuntu's support for power management is a beautiful thing.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> yup
[05:46] <manchicken> It's so nice to be able to sleep my lappy again.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> especially when it has an icon
[05:46] <manchicken> SuSE's ACPI support was crap.
[05:46] <manchicken> Froze up quite a bit.
[05:46] <manchicken> I can hibernate or suspend.
[05:46] <Hobbsee> how do i modprobe my wifi card, btw?  (intel 3945)
[05:46] <manchicken> I suspend.
[05:47] <Hobbsee> i can do both, but my wifi card dosent come back from hibernate
[05:47] <manchicken> you can't just ifdown && ifup?
[05:47] <Hobbsee> not if the light isnt even flashing, and nm doesnt see the card
[05:51] <manchicken> Just lsmod while it's working fine and figure out what module it's using.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> ieee80211              35528  1 ipw3945
[05:52] <Hobbsee> oh neat
[05:52] <manchicken> Okay, so ipw3945 is your module?
[05:52] <Hobbsee> good thought
[05:52] <Hobbsee> the ieeee8... is the module
[05:52] <Hobbsee> the ipw3945 is the card
[05:53] <nixternal> hibernate works like a champ here...when the battery hits 5% it auto hibernates...guidance rocks hardcore
[05:53] <manchicken> Ah.
[05:53] <manchicken> Fun.
[06:05] <jdong> Hobbsee: aww you're having trouble with your ipw3945?
[06:05] <Hobbsee> jdong: just with hibernate
[06:05] <jdong> Hobbsee: what does iwconfig say?
[06:05] <jdong> oh
[06:05] <jdong> just with hibernate...
[06:05] <jdong> still, iwconfig
[06:06] <Hobbsee> dunno
[06:06] <Hobbsee> dont remember
[06:06] <Hobbsee> lspci still found it
[06:06] <jdong> Hobbsee: so can I go to sleep?
[06:06] <jdong> pretty pleasE?
[06:06] <jdong> lol
[06:06] <Hobbsee> jdong: nope
[06:06] <jdong> Hobbsee: well, two things can cause the card to not show up as a network interface
[06:06] <jdong> Hobbsee: (1) radio is off. try flicking that wireless switch
[06:07] <jdong> Hobbsee: (2) ipw3945d died. try running ipw3945d-`uname -r`
[06:07] <Hobbsee> first isnt the case
[06:07] <Hobbsee> right
[06:08] <jdong> but FWIW my ipw3945d suspends and resumes flawlessly
[06:08] <jdong> Hobbsee: also, check for any BIOS updates? could be a acpi quirk?
[06:08] <jdong> though that's a bit far-fetched
[06:09] <Hobbsee> havent yet
[06:17] <Jucato> jdong: you there?
[06:17] <jdong> Jucato: kind of?
[06:18] <Jucato> jdong: just wondering. trying to compile ktorrent 2.1 beta from KDE SVN. it's complaining that I don't have GMP installed. does it need a newer version of GMP?
[06:18] <jdong> GMP... GMP.....
[06:18] <jdong> Jucato: I have svn debs
[06:19] <jdong> Jucato: would that make you happy?
[06:19] <Jucato> GNU Multiple Precision lib
[06:19] <Jucato> I see your name in the KTorrent site :)
[06:19] <jdong> Jucato: http://buntudot.org/people/~jdong/ktorrent/svn-edgy/
[06:19] <jdong> that's svn
[06:19] <jdong> I build every day or two
[06:19] <jdong> autobuilt from some scripts I wrote
[06:19] <Jucato> jdong: yes it makes me happy. I'm just trying to learn to compile stuff from SVN... :)
[06:19] <jdong> with somewhat edgy-inspired diff
[06:20] <jdong> Jucato: i'm not away of any newer build-deps
[06:20] <jdong> aware*
[06:20] <Jucato> ok. thanks then :)
[06:20] <jdong> Jucato: they've built fine for me the way they were
[06:20] <jdong> Jucato: did you follow the SVN building instructions on ktorrent's FAQ?
[06:20] <Jucato> heh... I haven't seen that... I just built it the way I built Konvi and KPlayer :)
[06:21] <Jucato> thanks I'll look into it
[06:21] <Jucato> hm... looks similar to what I was doing. anyway thank you again for your time! :)
[06:22] <jdong> np
[06:24] <manchicken> w00t!  Search implemented.
[06:24] <manchicken> That was easy.
[06:26] <Jucato> screenshot!! :)
[06:27] <Jucato> jdong: lol!! stupid me! I didn't have libgmp3-dev installed :P
[06:27] <jdong> Jucato: :)
[06:27] <manchicken> Gotta get it back to the point where apt-get will build it again....
[06:27] <jdong> Jucato: you really should start by build-depping the current packaging :)
[06:28] <Jucato> jdong: I'll get there once I figure out what that means lol :)
[06:28] <manchicken> I'll try to get rid of the General and Advanced buttons and then I'll shotty.
[06:28] <manchicken> Grumble....
[06:28] <Jucato> you can do it!
[06:28] <manchicken> configure: error: source directory already configured; run "make distclean" there first
[06:29] <manchicken> I already ran that.
[06:29] <jdong> Jucato: apt-get build-dep package
[06:29] <Jucato> ah that...
[06:29] <jdong> Jucato: it installs all the build deps for the source package <package>
[06:29] <jdong> that's always a great place to start
[06:29] <jdong> for packages that afford you taht luxury
[06:30] <manchicken> How do you clean a package directory after you've run automake in it?
[06:30] <Jucato> jdong: even if the <package> comes from KDE SVN, not from Ubuntu?
[06:30] <jdong> Jucato: not really kinda sorta
[06:31] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:31] <jdong> Jucato: it installs build dependencies for <package> that's in a deb-src line in your sources.list
[06:31] <Jucato> hehe ok.. I'll take it one step at a time. thanks for the pointers :)
[06:31] <jdong> Jucato: so it's a good _START_
[06:31] <jdong> Jucato: but a SVN package might demand more /newer dependencies
[06:31] <jdong> Jucato: and if the package doesn't exist at all in ubuntu repos, then you're really at a loss
[06:31] <Jucato> yeah. luckily this one was a pure PEBCAK :P
[06:32] <Hobbsee> then you just use pbuilder, etc
[06:32] <Jucato> pebkac.. pebcak...
[06:32] <Hobbsee> pebkac
[06:32] <Hobbsee> wait, i guess it works both ways
[06:33] <manchicken> heh
[06:33] <Hobbsee> peihb.
[06:33] <Hobbsee> or pebhbaow
[06:33] <Hobbsee> either way :P
[06:33] <Jucato> :O
[06:33] <Jucato> :)
[06:33] <Hobbsee> (problem exists in hobbsee's brain, or problem exists between hobbsee's bran and outside world)
[06:34] <manchicken> okay, all I had to do was move config.status out of the way.
[06:34] <manchicken> I've got apt-get building kde-systemsettings.
[06:34] <manchicken> I've gotta figure out how to retrieve the name of the tab...
[06:40] <manchicken> I've just been using automake and make to fire off my development builds, and when I need to try installing something I use apt-get to build the .deb and then just dpkg -i it.
[06:40] <manchicken> I've found that since I'm running all this stuff in chroot already, there's no real point in trying to fake it much further than that.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> as long as the chroot is clean :P
[06:42] <manchicken> Yeah.
[06:43] <manchicken> If I run into something that's unclean, I can always pbuilder it afterwards...
[06:43] <manchicken> I'm not going to allow myself to work on more than one package at a time.
[06:43] <manchicken> and I think I may focus more on bug fixing and feature adding than packaging.
[06:44] <manchicken> There doesn't seem to be any shortage of either of those type of tasks.
[06:44] <manchicken> I already know how to hack, I don't know how to package very well yet.
[06:45] <Hobbsee> manchicken: smart
[06:48] <manchicken> http://www.notsosoft.net/snapshots/snapshot2.png
[06:48] <manchicken> w00tness
[06:48] <Jucato> nice :)
[06:48] <manchicken> As you can see, the search functionality is working ^_^
[06:48] <manchicken> I gotta get the tab names right, and get that second separator out.
[06:49] <Jucato> what happened to the "# hits in General"?
[06:49] <manchicken> I think I may have commented that out.
[06:49] <Jucato> oh
[06:49] <manchicken> heh
[06:49] <Jucato> :)
[06:49] <manchicken> I did a lot of experimentation trying to figure out what was and was not dynamically generated UI.
[06:50] <manchicken> Yeah.
[06:50] <manchicken> heh
[06:50] <manchicken> slotSearchHits() is completely commented out.
[06:50] <manchicken> Very nice.
[06:50] <Jucato> heheh :)
[06:51] <manchicken> It's nice to be hacking something other than a bloody web app.
[06:51] <manchicken> I tell the folks at work that I hack web apps to support my hacking real app habit.
[06:51] <Jucato> someday... I'll be hacking too... hopefully :)
[06:52] <manchicken> It's pretty simple.
[06:52] <manchicken> I actually hate C++ as a general language.
[06:52] <Jucato> that's what I'm studying now (by myself)
[06:52] <manchicken> But the way that K does it just adds a lot to it.
[06:53] <manchicken> Well then you'll learn the STL... which is the #1 beef I have with "standard" C++.
[06:53] <Jucato> luckily I won't be sticking to STL for long... only reason I'm studying C++ is for Qt/KDE :)
[06:53] <manchicken> Most templates in C++ are about 2 notches above useless, and built-in code-bloat.
[06:53] <manchicken> Yeah.
[06:53] <Jucato> still, knowing it might be good for general knowledge...
[06:54] <manchicken> KDE and Qt have found glorious uses for template facilities in the language.
[06:54] <Jucato> (specially since it seems to be a "religious" topic among C++ programmers, better safe than sorry :P )
[06:56] <manchicken> Eh, I prefer to leave religious discussion to relevant topics on the subject.  Things where we have the luxury of simplicity we should take advantage.
[06:56] <manchicken> Matters of personal preference shouldn't be debated so heavily.
[06:56] <manchicken> Like editor for example.
[06:56] <manchicken> I don't touch kdevelop.  I don't care for it at all.
[06:56] <manchicken> I'm strictly a GNU Emacs feller.
[06:57] <manchicken> But many folks feel quite differently.
[06:57] <manchicken> Same with language.
[06:57] <nixternal> hence the chiglug ;p
[06:57] <manchicken> And I'm going to stab the MenuItem class.
[06:57] <Jucato> maybe one day I'm going to understand all this fuss about emacs vs. vi...
[06:58] <manchicken> Jucato: There is no fuss about it.
[06:58] <manchicken> It's just silly people who REQUIRE something to argue about.
[06:58] <manchicken> There are people in this world who simply aren't content to be content.  They have to be cross with someone.
[06:59] <manchicken> No other feeling will do for them.
[06:59] <Jucato> :)
[06:59] <manchicken> But there are also folks out there who will make ignorant statements about programs they have never used, or never used to the degree that would make their opinion an educated one.
[07:00] <manchicken> That's why God put a back on your hand though.
[07:00] <manchicken> ^_^
[07:01] <Jucato> heheh
[07:01] <Jucato> :P
[07:06] <nixternal> man, downgrading subverion by moving from one system to the next provides a little bit of a scare
[07:08] <manchicken> heh
[07:08] <manchicken> Yeah, I could see that.
[07:09] <manchicken> You can get away with that on RCS... but not svn.
[07:12] <manchicken> If kde-systemsettings gets any more complex than it already is, we need to consider an alternate means of grouping it in the UI.
[07:12] <manchicken> I don't think tabs are the best way to go for this application if we extend it much further than it is.
[07:13] <Jucato> more complex? I thought systemsettings was supposed to be a lighter, simpler alternative to kcontrol? :)
[07:13] <manchicken> With just two tabs it makes sense, but if we get more than that I think we should consider going the route of the more standard config dialog grouping treatment.
[07:13] <manchicken> Well, kde-systemsettings lets you control more than kcontrol IIRC.
[07:14] <manchicken> I could be wrong.
[07:14] <Jucato> the current incarnation in Edgy certainly has less...
[07:14] <manchicken> Sorry, differently.
[07:14] <manchicken> I don't think you can change your X displays in kcontrol.
[07:14] <Jucato> manchicken: both kcontrol and systemsettings use the same kcontrol modules
[07:15] <Jucato> so if kde-guidance is installed, it shows up in both
[07:15] <manchicken> Ack, so they do.
[07:15] <manchicken> So yeah...
[07:15] <manchicken> I never really considered kcontrol all that complicated...
[07:16] <manchicken> So yeah, if it's supposed to be a slimmed down kcontrol then I suppose we should be careful choosing what does and doesn't go there.
[07:16] <Jucato> I just find some of the groupings in kcontrol a bit... weird...
[07:16] <manchicken> I'd like to see printer controls in there.
[07:16] <manchicken> I agree.
[07:16] <manchicken> I don't like how hotkey assignments are in accessibility.
[07:16] <manchicken> It doesn't seem logical to me.
[07:16] <Jucato> that's why el (form OpenUsability) helped work on it for Edgy.
[07:17] <manchicken> I mean, hotkey assignments certainly help with accessibility, but it's not limited to that.
[07:17] <Jucato> yeah
[07:17] <manchicken> Of all the settings I change on my machine, hotkeys have to be one of the most frequently changed.
[07:17] <Jucato> I'm not sure if Input Actions should be in accessibility either...
[07:18] <Jucato> I don't see how mouse gestures are an accessibility feature...
[07:18] <manchicken> It's a neat idea, but I just see little to no practical use for them.
[07:18] <Jucato> although Input Actions is very useful for creating your own keyboard shortcuts
[07:18] <manchicken> Yes..
[07:19] <manchicken> Integrating DCOP into that was nothing short of brilliance.
[07:19] <Jucato> yeah!
[07:19] <manchicken> I'm just hoping DBUS will give us the same flexability.
[07:19] <manchicken> I'm not okay losing that convenience.
[07:20] <Jucato> well, they say that technically, DBUS is more powerul/advanced than DCOP...
[07:20] <manchicken> It's nice to be able to fire set global hotkeys to interface with applications.
[07:20] <manchicken> This lovely 64-bit Turion is loving all of this compiling.
[07:21] <manchicken> It's just eating it up.
[07:21] <Jucato> hehehe
[07:21] <manchicken> Though building via apt-get is slow.
[07:23] <manchicken> What's the release for feisty?
[07:23] <manchicken> What error are you getting?
[07:23] <Jucato> nah.. just trying to learn/practice building from kde svn
[07:23] <manchicken> (building things from SVN is tricky.  people aren't always as careful about their commits as they should be on the kde repositories)
[07:24] <Jucato> something about a missing settings.h file... which I can't find anywhere... which makes me wonder how jdong was able to build it...
[07:25] <manchicken> Well that was a fun circle-jerk.
[07:25] <Jucato> heh :)
[07:25] <manchicken> Well, the thing about svn is that things change pretty fast.
[07:25] <manchicken> Are you actually grabbing from the KDE repositories?
[07:25] <manchicken> KDE4?
[07:26] <Jucato> trunk
[07:26] <manchicken> Or 3.5.6?
[07:26] <manchicken> Okay, trunk is KDE4.
[07:26] <manchicken> IIRC.
[07:26] <manchicken> For KDE repositories.
[07:26] <Jucato> not all
[07:26] <manchicken> Do you have a CMakeFile.txt?
[07:26] <Jucato> konvi in trunk is for KDE 3.5.x
[07:27] <Jucato> heh I just gave up on it for now...
[07:27] <Jucato> I'll take it up again maybe tonight...
[07:27] <manchicken> What's konvi?
[07:28] <Jucato> konversation :)
[07:28] <manchicken> Ah.
[07:28] <Jucato> sorry, I like to use "terms of endearment" for my favorite/most used apps :)
[07:29] <Jucato> (actually only Konqi and Konvi)
[07:29] <manchicken> heh
[07:30] <Jucato> heh
[07:30] <manchicken> I wish someone would add KDE GUI support to GNU Emacs.
[07:30] <manchicken> That'd be pretty bad ass.
[07:30] <manchicken> Ooh, kontact.
[07:31] <manchicken> Don't forget amarok.
[07:31] <manchicken> ^_^
[07:31] <Jucato> oh yeah :)
[07:31] <manchicken> And konsole.
[07:31] <Jucato> :)
[07:32] <Jucato> KOffice... well, I have a love/hate relationship with it :)
[07:32] <manchicken> kbfx has been doing pretty well for me lately too.
[07:32] <manchicken> KOffice is doing well, but still needs a bit of work.
[07:32] <Jucato> I like Amarok... but not a huge fan :)
[07:32] <Jucato> yeah I agree. but it's getting there (hopefully)
[07:32] <manchicken> Oh I'm an Amarok fanboy.
[07:32] <manchicken> Best music player ever.
[07:33] <Jucato> heh maybe I'm just not the type who really gets picky about the multimedia apps that he uses
[07:33] <Jucato> in fact, it's only recently that I've decided to look for something else other than Kaffeine...
[07:37] <manchicken> Kaffeine just seems to be one of those programs that is greatly crippled by the evils of DRM.
[07:38] <manchicken> It could be a great video player, but the DRM crap and proprietary codecs really limit what Kaffeine could be.
[07:39] <Jucato> there's another thing that I find a bit annoying in Kaffeine (besides not playing some .mkv videos...): it's mouse wheel behavior is the opposite of the rest of KDE
[07:39] <manchicken> Yeah.
[07:39] <manchicken> I think it's going to be hard to keep folks working on a project that is shot in the head before the gates open.
[07:40] <manchicken> Nobody wants to work on the red-headed stepchild of video players.
[07:56] <manchicken> What a dirty cheater I am.  heh
[07:56] <Jucato> ??
[07:57] <manchicken> The General and Advanced buttons in the toolbar were directly from the RC file.
[07:57] <Jucato> it's not cheating. it's called "code reuse" hehehe :)
[07:57] <manchicken> so, now that I'm not using the setupGUI to generate those buttons any more, I'm having to derive them from the .desktop.
[07:58] <manchicken> I had to make the caption for that trickle up in order to get it working right it seems.
[07:58] <manchicken> I'll know in a minute if it really worked.
[07:58] <Jucato> heh
[07:58] <Jucato> hm... ktorrent 2.1 beta1 successfully built from source tarball, but not from svn... weird...
[07:58] <manchicken> Remember, svn == moving target
[07:59] <Jucato> yeah... guess the current revision is bugged
[08:01] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/floydwilde/319070064/in/photostream/
[08:01] <nixternal> that is the most elite hax0r in the world
[08:02] <Jucato> heh :)
[08:03] <nixternal> can you see imbrandon's favorite softdrink to my right ;p
[08:08] <manchicken> Jucato: So fix it ^_^
[08:08] <manchicken> heh
[08:08] <manchicken> I think I've seen that guy.
[08:08] <nixternal> i hope not, stalker!
[08:08] <manchicken> What a jerk ;)
[08:08] <nixternal> hahahaha
[08:09] <nixternal> jquigly have any?
[08:09] <nixternal> jquigley that is
[08:09] <manchicken> I'm not sure if he's sure.
[08:09] <manchicken> The guy seems so damn busy...
[08:09] <nixternal> now especially since the server went down
[08:09] <manchicken> heh
[08:10] <manchicken> I offered space on my account with railsplayground....
[08:10] <manchicken> but it would seem that shared hosting is not to their liking.
[08:10] <manchicken> Not even GOOD shared hosting.
[08:12] <manchicken> I'll be going to bed at 2AM at the latest.
[08:12] <manchicken> I may be on vacation, but I plan on getting a nice good patch to kde-systemsettings out.
[08:12] <manchicken> It seems like I'm already good in that direction.
[08:13] <nixternal> heh
[08:13] <manchicken> Did you see my latest shotty?
[08:13] <nixternal> ya
[08:13] <nixternal> i caught it from the chiglug chan
[08:14] <manchicken> I wanted it in chumpy ^_^
[08:14] <nixternal> not to shabby
[08:14] <nixternal> hehe
[08:14] <manchicken> Nice record of my conquests.
[08:14] <manchicken> Or should I say konquests?
[08:14] <manchicken> Right now I'm just fighting with this stupid tab labels thing.
[08:14] <manchicken> Trying to figure out how to derive that properly.
[08:15] <manchicken> I could just parse the string... but that kinda seems klugy to me.
[08:42] <manchicken> I wish building with apt-get would give the option to cache autoconf detections and such.
[08:42] <manchicken> Instead it has to reconfigure every time.
[08:42] <manchicken> No fun.
[08:48] <manchicken> Sweet.
[08:48] <manchicken> I've got properly named tabs now.
[08:52] <manchicken> I got a little bit more work on it still though.
[08:52] <manchicken> The button that takes you back to the main list doesn't work properly, and it looks like I may have a crash situation... so yeah.
[08:52] <manchicken> Plenty of goodies for tomorrow.
[10:07] <mhb> good morning
[10:08] <Jucato> moin mhb! :)
[10:09] <fdoving> morning.
[11:49] <Lure> sebas: should we consider multi-tab config like gnome: http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnome-power-manager/gpp.html
[11:50] <Lure> sebas: I am working on cpu-freq and would need to put controls for both battery as well as ACpowered mode
[12:00] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: you around?
[12:02] <Lure> hi Hobbsee
[12:02] <Hobbsee> hey Lure!
[12:03] <Lure> Hobbsee: very quiet here...
[12:03] <Hobbsee> Lure: aww...why?
[12:03] <Lure> Hobbsee: it is weekend after all
[12:04] <Hobbsee> Lure: good point
[12:04] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: yea
[12:04] <imbrandon> wasup?
[12:04] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: [21:56]  <danimo> Hobbsee: interested in generating nightly svn builds for kubuntu? :)
[12:04] <imbrandon> what package, i can do that
[12:05] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: of kde4
[12:05] <imbrandon> ohhh
[12:05] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:05] <Hobbsee> doesnt that take mroe than a night to build?
[12:05] <imbrandon> nah about 20 hours or so
[12:05] <imbrandon> lemme see if i can get some scripts togather
[12:05] <imbrandon> i might be able to
[12:05] <imbrandon> infact i know i can
[12:06] <imbrandon> just give me a day or two to set it up
[12:06] <Hobbsee> he's in #kde4-devel if you want to talk specifics
[12:06] <imbrandon> kk
[12:06] <Hobbsee> i'm assuming it's all of kde4
[12:07] <sebas> Lure: Let's ask Ellen for that, I'm really bad at UI design.
[12:08] <Lure> sebas: yep, my concern is that we are just adding stuff and this typically does not bring us good UI
[12:08] <sebas> Lure: Right
[01:15] <oslo>  wirh kopete i can't the text "showgallery.php" on msn ....
[01:15] <Hobbsee> oslo: you're missing at least 1 word there
[01:19] <oslo> Hobbsee *read sorry
[01:19] <oslo> ** send sorry
[01:19] <oslo> ^^
[01:21] <Hobbsee> oslo: as in, you cant type it, or what?
[01:22] <oslo> Hobbsee> i can't send it but it seems its from microsoft
[03:46] <manchicken> Anybody know how to enable debug symbols in an apt-get build?
[03:47] <manchicken> Just change it in the rules?
[03:56] <manchicken> Anybody home?
[03:57] <mhb> I'm at home, although not experienced with apt-get build
[03:58] <raphink> manchicken: if you use apt-get build, you can't change the source
[03:58] <raphink> if you want to activate debug symbols, you have to do that in rules
[03:59] <raphink> that's the cleanest way imo
[03:59] <raphink> so using apt-get build is not apropriate
[03:59] <raphink> rather using debuild, dpkg-buildpackage or even pbuilder/sbuild which is the best option
[04:26] <manchicken> raphink: Sure you can change the source.  apt-get source PKG --compile compiles your changed source.
[04:26] <manchicken> I'll give the dpkg-buildpackage thing a whirl.
[04:28] <raphink> that'll be better
[04:28] <raphink> or even pbuilder as I said
[04:28] <raphink> would ensure the quality of the compilation
[04:28] <manchicken> I'm not trying to build binaries for distribution.
[04:28] <manchicken> I'll leave that to someone who actually knows how to do such a thing.
[04:28] <raphink> you're trying to build a binary
[04:28] <manchicken> I'm just trying to get the bloody thing to stop crashing now that I've got tabs in it.
[04:29] <manchicken> Yeah, but it's in a nice clean chroot.
[04:29] <raphink> so well it all depends on the quality you want
[04:29] <manchicken> I don't really see how pbuilder could work any better than a chroot where the only variable is my changes.
[04:41] <nixternal> raphink: <>< hiya
[04:42] <raphink> hi nixternal :)
[04:44] <manchicken> What's going on nixternal?
[04:45] <nixternal> same ol' same ol'
[04:47] <nixternal> i am building basket 6.0 for my edgy setup here...i am going to give it another shot over tomboy because Hobbsee said it rocked
[04:48] <manchicken> Basket is nice.
[04:49] <manchicken> I wish I could get bloody debug symbols in my code though.
[04:52] <nixternal> i love when builds go that smooth
[04:53] <manchicken> Quit taunting me.
[04:53] <nixternal> hehe
[05:00] <manchicken> You know what sucks about compiler optimizers?
[05:00] <manchicken> They hide your mistakes sometimes, until a part of the code that makes ZERO sense.
[05:04] <raphink> hop
[05:14] <manchicken> I found the source of the crash.
[05:14] <manchicken> w00t
[05:15] <raphink> great
[08:07] <pabloodissea_> kcontrol don't save configuration for monitor power managerment
[08:08] <pabloodissea_> any idea?
[08:12] <nixternal> let me guess, you set the power to not shut off your monitor, yet it does anyways?
[08:45] <Lure> ryanakca: edgy or feisty? it works here (feisty)
[08:46] <ryanakca> Edgy
[08:46] <ryanakca> lots of things on my system seem to break, eh? apt, bzflag, kcontrol, amarok, what next? :)
[08:47] <ryanakca> hmm... I /could/ set it threw xkb... but I'd have to look at the man pages for it
[08:48] <mhb> ryanakca: you mean you don't see any regional layouts in Edgy?
[08:48] <ryanakca> zilch
[08:48] <ryanakca> I'm using a french canadian keyboard map... but I don't see it in that list
[08:49] <ryanakca> (it's a non-existant list, btw)
[08:50] <mhb> ryanakca: I don't think it's the same on a clean Edgy install
[08:51] <ryanakca> mhb: what's the same? french canadian map?
[08:51] <ryanakca> or there being or not being a keyboard map selector thingy?
[08:52] <mhb> ryanakca: I think that the list is not empty on a default Edgy install
[08:52] <ryanakca> I don't think it is
[09:41] <ryanakca> !teg
[09:41] <ubotu> Come play teg with us!  (Like the board game Risk)  Install the 'teg' package, run 'tegclient', and connect to server yarusso.no-ip.org, port 2000.  Ping tonyyarusso for more information
[09:46] <oslo> i cant hide my kiker when i go to a screen corner with beryl....
[09:46] <oslo> could u help me
[09:47] <mhb> oslo: there is a lot of beryl users on #kubuntu or#ubuntu
[09:48] <mhb> oslo: you can try asking there
[09:48] <oslo> k
[09:56] <Lure> sebas: start button?
[09:57] <sebas> Yeah, Brandon has the kubuntu logo as this button
[09:58] <Lure> sebas: yep, we should change this - only Riddell is objecting the change ;-)
[10:03] <mhb> can't we add this option either to systemsettings -> Appearance or Configure panel -> Appearance ?
[10:04] <manchicken> It's pretty simple to do that.
[10:04] <manchicken> I would kinda object to the kubuntu logo being the default, too.
[10:04] <manchicken> There's no need to brand everything.
[10:05] <manchicken> But it would be nice to have more options :)
[10:06] <manchicken> And more love for widescreen users.
[10:08] <mhb> manchicken: don't forget that such patches will become useless with KDE4.
[10:08] <manchicken> What such patches/
[10:09] <manchicken> And why?
[10:09] <mhb> manchicken: theme configuration options in KDE3
[10:09] <mhb> manchicken: I mean the proposed one
[10:09] <manchicken> Oh.
[10:09] <manchicken> yeah.
[10:09] <manchicken> But how hard would it be to write a Perl script to convert from one to the other?
[10:11] <mhb> manchicken: not that difficult, I guess. But still there has to be someone who writes that :o) All devs have a ton of other, more important stuff.
[10:13] <manchicken> Writing config conversions is pretty important.
[10:14] <mhb> manchicken: the whole branding thing isn't :o)
[10:14] <manchicken> No, but a theme converter would be important.
[10:14] <manchicken> Folks will be disappointed if they can't keep their skin.
[10:15] <manchicken> Some folks actually put a lot of effort into that stuff.
[10:17] <mhb> manchicken: yes, but this has little to do with a K menu icon branding, IMHO.
[10:17] <manchicken> Right...
[10:17] <manchicken> I thought you were arguing a more general concept than that ;
[10:17] <manchicken> ;)
[10:17] <manchicken> I think we should let K's default menu button remain our default menu button.
[10:18] <manchicken> Ack.  WHY does QString assignment to const QString & do a shallow copy?
[10:19] <manchicken> I can't think of very many situations where that WON'T cause a problem....
[10:22] <manchicken> Sweet.
[10:22] <manchicken> I'm done with my kde-systemsettings changes.
[10:23] <manchicken> Now to fire off some diffs and clean up my comment messes.
[10:23] <manchicken> But first, time to install this clapper my wife got me ^_^
[10:32] <nixternal> hahahahah
[10:32] <nixternal> clap on
[10:32] <nixternal> clap off
[10:34] <manchicken> Sweet.
[10:34] <manchicken> dpkg is keeping track of my diffs for me.
[10:46] <Lure> sebas: there are only three policies in powermanager: dynamic, powersave and performance - did you plan to support only these three or were other's left out by accident?
[10:46] <Lure> sebas: personally I think the above three should be enough, but what if user sets userspace or conservative outside of pvermanager
[10:50] <sebas> Lure: That's what we thought would be needed back in Paris.
[10:51] <sebas> I'm for good defaults, though.
[10:51] <sebas> Maybe performance when onBatter(), dynamic when not (and maybe powersave when batteryTime < 30')
[10:51] <sebas> So we we really need GUI options?
[10:51] <Lure> sebas: agreed, but what to do if something else is set outside (not very likely, but still) - just display, but do not allow setting in our UI
[10:52] <sebas> Lure: I don't think we should handle that case.
[10:52] <Lure> sebas: for me dynamic (ondemand) always is the right thing. But some users want powersave on battery (to get more juice out)
[10:52] <Lure> and some may want performance on power
[10:52] <sebas> Not sure if on all hardware, though.
[10:53] <Lure> sebas: on most of latest hw
[10:53] <sebas> Yeah, but not on all, that's probably why we want it handled in HAL
[10:54] <Lure> sebas: it is already handled in HAL - I just changed the code to use dbus/hal to manage it
[10:54] <Lure> sebas: I plan to commit now the version with only displaying current mode in tooltip
[10:54] <Lure> sebas: I plan to add UI config in next round
[11:00] <manchicken> Okay, so do you all want me to just email a diff to the list?
[11:01] <Lure> sebas: commited cpu freq changes (if you want to try new tooltip)
[11:05] <manchicken> Hey folks, I've got those tabs implemented in kde-systemsettings.
[11:05] <manchicken> how do I submit my diffs?
[11:05] <manchicken> Just shoot 'em over the list?
[11:05] <Lure> manchicken: have screenshots?
[11:05] <manchicken> Ah, sure.
[11:06] <manchicken> Let me update the one I had.
[11:06] <Jucato> screenies! :)
[11:07] <manchicken> http://www.notsosoft.net/snapshots/snapshot2.png
[11:07] <sebas> Lure: Rocking.
[11:07] <sebas> Only, I now lose the cpufreq displaying on Edgy because my HAL doesn't support it.
[11:08] <Jucato> manchicken: kool :)
[11:08] <manchicken> I'm diggin' it.
[11:08] <Lure> manchicken: nice
[11:08] <sebas> So can I get a case where no HAL support but plain cpufreq support is there? (Helps a bit with HAL problems, too)
[11:08] <Jucato> manchicken: the "<number> hits in <section>" also working?
[11:08] <manchicken> Yeah.
[11:08] <manchicken> Let me shotty that.
[11:08] <Jucato> hehe :)
[11:09] <Lure> sebas: it could be with older hal, but otherwise is 1:1
[11:09] <sebas> Lure: right, Edgy has the older HAL
[11:09] <sebas> I can fix that, if you want me to.
[11:09] <manchicken> http://www.notsosoft.net/snapshots/snapshot3.png
[11:09] <Lure> sebas: you are on edgy - poor you ;-)
[11:09] <sebas> Should be pretty trivial, and I'm curous about your UI changes anyway :-)
[11:09] <manchicken> There's search with number results shown.
[11:09] <sebas> Lure: I'm a chicken :>
[11:10] <Jucato> manchicken: definitely kool :)
[11:10] <sebas> Want things to just work and stuff not to break, you know.
[11:10] <manchicken> Stupid QString was doing something I didn't expect earlier.
[11:10] <Jucato> manchicken: now all that's left is for el to rearrange/return some of the modules :)
[11:10] <Lure> sebas: I plan to test it on desktop (just in case) and edgy
[11:10] <manchicken> spent about 2 hours chasing my tail because stupid const QString& assignment only does a shallow copy.
[11:11] <manchicken> Jucato: That should be insanely simple to do the way she wrote it.
[11:11] <Lure> sebas: question is what to support on edgy: just read-only stuff?
[11:11] <manchicken> (I think I recall you all saying el was a she)
[11:11] <Jucato> manchicken: yeah. Ellen Reitmeyr (OpenUsability)
[11:11] <sebas> Lure: Yes, r/w is hard to do because of privilege separation
[11:11] <mhb> manchicken: can you get those general/advanced icons in the tabs or is that impossible?
[11:11] <manchicken> w00t.  memory++
[11:11] <sebas> el is a she, indeed.
[11:11] <manchicken> Well, that could be tricky.
[11:12] <Jucato> manchicken: and yes, it was quite easy. I did it myself, just editing the .rc file...
[11:12] <Lure> sebas: ok, I will polish edgy first, then do the UI
[11:12] <manchicken> You see, I actually had to do something I considered less than perfect just to derive the tab names.
[11:12] <sebas> Ok.
[11:12] <Lure> sebas: and then we should send it to el / seele for usability review
[11:12] <sebas> Lure: I'll be away for a week starting on Monday, btw
[11:12] <manchicken> Those tabs used to be from the ui.rc file.
[11:13] <Lure> sebas: ok, will send by mail anyway
[11:13] <sebas> Lure: Yes
[11:13] <manchicken> Now they're coming straight from the systemsettings.desktop file.
[11:13] <manchicken> I'm just parsing the menu path.
[11:13] <sebas> That's fine, it's more just so you know.
[11:13] <sebas> And I'm getting commit mails for all the guidance stuff, so I can review things.
[11:13] <Lure> sebas: I still do not know what to do with keyboard shortcuts and usability
[11:13] <manchicken> (if you call simple string extraction parsing)
[11:16] <sebas> Lure: I can't see that an icon is missing in svn, btw.
[11:17] <sebas> I'm now trying with all icons reinstalled (by hand, all icons from svn), but I suspect a packaging issue.
[11:17] <sebas> All icons referenced in the source are in svn, anyway.
[11:17] <Lure> sebas: me neither, but Tonio have sent me his package which is supposed to fix the problem - I need to diff to see what may be the problem
[11:17] <Lure> sebas: I think it may be packaging issue
[11:17] <manchicken> So anybody know how to submit a patch?
[11:17] <sebas> manchicken: Depends, a patch for what?
[11:18] <manchicken> kde-systemsettings
[11:22] <Lure> manchicken: just send it to one (or all) of core-dev's and ask them to review & upload
[11:22] <Lure> manchicken: Riddell, Tonio_ and imbrandon are good candidates
[11:23] <Lure> manchicken: when it is proven in feisty, one of kde developers can upload it to kde svn for next release
[11:28] <manchicken> What mailing list would that be/
[11:28] <manchicken> ?
[11:29] <Lure> jr@, tonio@, imbrandon@, ubuntu.com
[11:35] <sebas> Sime is for 6 weeks to Australia, likely without development system
[11:35] <sebas> CC: kubuntu-devel is a good idea.
[11:36] <manchicken> Argh, now you tell me.
[11:36] <sebas> Sure, always too late at your service ;-)
[11:37] <Jucato> heh :)
[11:44] <manchicken> Ack, I guess kmail DID redirect when I told it to.
[11:44] <manchicken> Sorry for doubling up on that submission folks.
[11:45] <sebas> No problem :)
[11:56] <manchicken> I just hope folks find my patch useful.
[12:12] <Riddell> manchicken: got any screenshots of your changes?