[12:18] <owh> sistpoty: How is this for a first draft? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37653/
[12:20] <sistpoty> owh: looks good (though I'm usually making my comments in a less professional style :P)
[12:23] <HrdwrBoB> internal workings
[12:23] <owh> Excellent, tah.
[12:32] <owh> sistpoty: I'm intending to tag all those bugs across launchpad, any suggestions for a unique tag, or should I just mark them vfat dosfstools?
[12:33] <sistpoty> owh: vfat dosfstools sounds sane
[12:38] <owh> sistpoty: Do you know of any that I missed: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=dosfstools
[12:40] <sistpoty> owh: no, not really
[12:51] <owh> sistpoty: I'm just hunting through any bugs with vfat in them.
[12:55] <owh> sistpoty: None that I can find, any point in contacting Debian reporters as well?
[12:56] <sistpoty> owh: hm... I don't think that's necessary
[01:07] <owh> sistpoty: I'm checking out the version of dosfstools on cvs.linux-m86k.org to see if I can get a handle on the changes that implemented FAT32.
[01:23] <stefg> owh: interestingly enough, just 1 hour someone picked up my report https://launchpad.net/bugs/62831.. seems that stir some dust
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62831 in dosfstools "fsck.vfat truncates files of 4294967295 bytes length to 0 bytes at boot-time" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[01:24] <owh> stefg: That was me :-) (And sistpoty)
[01:24] <owh> stefg: What other information can you give us?
[01:25] <owh> stefg: sistpoty has been trying to reproduce your report with not much success, any other information you can share?
[01:25] <sistpoty> stefg: could it be that your FS was already corrupted, and dosfsck just fixed it in a wrong way?
[01:25] <sistpoty> stefg: or rather broke it more ;)
[01:25] <stefg> hmmm... what do you need? Aren't the facts clear? dosfsck takes 32bit fat as 16bit fat... 
[01:25] <owh> stefg: No, it's not that simple :-)
[01:26] <sistpoty> stefg: nope, as I said, I tried to reproduce it (created same big file, but dosfsck didn't complain)
[01:27] <owh> stefg: FYI, the other bugs that *appear* to be related are now tagged "vfat dosfstools", there are five of them in total.
[01:28] <stefg> so i can't really tell, if the fs was broken before... i use TrueImage, which splits the backup file in 4GB slices, and it needs to be fat32 to be accessible from linux and win... i did a deadly boring dapper server-install, and the initial dosfsck after the first reboot decided to eat my backups
[01:28] <cge> stefg: So the files were right up against the limit for 32 bit FAT, were they not?
[01:28] <stefg> yes, they were
[01:29] <stefg> this is why i wrote the length in the bug report
[01:29] <cge> stefg: As a minor point, were they 4 GB or 4 GiB?
[01:29] <owh> stefg: You wouldn't still have those images lying around would you?
[01:30] <sistpoty> hm... /me wonders how to upload/download 4GB... *g*
[01:30] <stefg> owh: i ran a chkdsk from win afterwards, which fixed the problem... 
[01:30] <owh> ROTFL
[01:31] <stefg> cge: i stated the size in bytes... to avoid any confusion :-)
[01:31] <cge> ah
[01:31] <cge> I wasn't here
[01:31] <stefg> 4294967295 bytes length
[01:32] <stefg> that's 4 GB /4096 MB)
[01:33] <owh> Uhm, silly question, could this be a kernel limit, I recall having fun with 4Gb files on ext2 a couple of months ago.
[01:33] <stefg> no... i have xfs and ntfs partitions on my system, which files bigger than 10 GB
[01:33] <cge> owh: What kernel was that? I had thought those problems had been solved years ago?
[01:34] <sistpoty> owh: I doubt that... dosfsck doesn't read through the file system, but directly through the block device... wouldn't work at all with partitions > 4 GB then
[01:34] <owh> cge: That was from memory something like 2.6.9.
[01:35] <owh> sistpoty: Hence my silly question disclaimer :-)
[01:35] <jdong> owh: that's silly
[01:35] <owh> stefg: Do any of these other bugs spark any memories: https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=dosfstools
[01:35] <jdong> owh: I unfortunately use ext2 as a compatibility FS between my XP and Linux, and store files >=4GB on a regular basis
[01:36] <cge> jdong: I use ext2 as my partition for everything in Windows XP except for Windows itself.
[01:36] <jdong> yeah, it works well
[01:36] <jdong> the "unfortunate" part is having ext2 store 20GB+ DV streams
[01:36] <jdong> which it definitely does NOT excel at doing
[01:37] <jdong> I'd much rather hand that job to XFS... but silly Windows....
[01:37] <owh> As the prodding increases, I recall now that it wasn't an ext2 fs, but a FAT32, because I wanted to get to it from somewhere else, /me cannot recall all the details, only that the resolution was to split the file to smaller than 4Gb.
[01:37] <jdong> yeah, fat32 has a 4GB limit
[01:37] <jdong> :)
[01:37] <owh> Heh
[01:37] <jdong> ext2 doesn't
[01:37] <jdong> just be thankful it's not FAT16? :D
[01:39] <owh> Hold on, jdong, you just said that FAT32 has a 4GB limit, but then how does that relate to bug 62831 which is the one that stefg reported -- /me is a little confused.
[01:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62831 in dosfstools "fsck.vfat truncates files of 4294967295 bytes length to 0 bytes at boot-time" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62831
[01:40] <stefg> Hmmm, no... so #59293 is 'brokenness by design' and the others may relate to same cause, but are different incarnations
[01:40] <jdong> owh: it's not surprising
[01:40] <owh> stefg: But the DOS/Windows fsck knows when a file system is "dirty".
[01:40] <jdong> owh: the fize of his files are exactly the upper limit for FAT32
[01:40] <jdong> I woudln't be surprised if there's a fsck.vfat bug at that point
[01:41] <cge> owh: In other words, a really bad idea.
[01:41] <cge> jdong: However, it seems that others have not been able to reproduce the problem.
[01:41] <jdong> right, I noticed that
[01:42] <jdong> whom I'd trust to be able to create a 4.00GB file
[01:42] <jdong> lol
[01:42] <cge> sistpoty: What did you use for the source of data in the files? /dev/zero? or /dev/urandom?
[01:42] <stefg> owh: what might be of interest is that it's a relativley small 25 G partition at the end of a 160 GB drive... starts beyond the 137 GB limit
[01:42] <jdong> cge: you can't use /dev/urandom to make that big a file with dd?
[01:42] <cge> jdong: No? I didn't know that.
[01:42] <jdong> cge: /dev/urandom contained EOF characters the last time I tried
[01:42] <sistpoty> cge: first I tried with /dev/zero, then I fired up xp and copied some game data until I got the very good error msg "disk full" (because I had reached the limit)
[01:43] <jdong> apparently that's a part of the "randomness" :D
[01:43] <cge> sistpoty: Perhaps that changed something.
[01:43] <sistpoty> cge: I can hardly think of what would be changed then... 
[01:44] <cge> Also, it might have to do with creating the file with the vfat drivers in linux as opposed to windows.
[01:44] <cge> oops, never mind
[01:44] <owh> stefg: Where did your file originate?
[01:45] <owh> cge: Why does that not matter?
[01:45] <sistpoty> cge: My best guess would be that some repair code is indeed broken. I guess I'll break my fat32 partition and look what dosfsck does
[01:45] <cge> owh: Because I just noticed that sistpoty said that he copied it in XP.
[01:45] <stefg> owh: Acronis True Image 8, the recovery version (which is a modified Redhat kernel with an embedded CS app on top)
[01:45] <_ion> EOF isn't really a character. Programs may interpret ^D as EOF when stdin is a tty, but i'd be surprised if dd did that when reading from /dev/urandom.
[01:45] <sistpoty> cge: I tried both variants, linux + xp
[01:45] <cge> I see
[01:46] <cge> _ion: I'm nearly certain that dd wouldn't
[01:46] <owh> _ion: Other than that some apps treat /null as an EOF - the command "type" in DOS for example.
[01:47] <sistpoty> hm... stupid idea: /me is interested to fix that bug because /me fears data loss as well, but in order to get a little bit closer to it, /me will break my fat32 *g*
[01:47] <jdong> _ion: when I try dd'ing a file from /dev/urandom, it creates some couple-byte files every time....
[01:47] <jdong> at least before it did
[01:47] <jdong> maybe I was using cp and not dd, I don't remember now
[01:47] <jdong> oh look at that, it's working
[01:47] <jdong> never mind about dd & urandom :D
[01:48] <stefg> owh: but i experienced file corruption on other fat32 drives with other file-length, too... until i set all the vfat drives in fstab to 0 0 on col. 6/6  
[01:48] <owh> stefg: Do you recall any details?
[01:48] <cge> stefg: Why would the pass have anything to do with corruption?
[01:48] <owh> cge: To stop the check at boot time.
[01:49] <cge> ah
[01:49] <stefg> owh: I have pretty much investigated what corrupts my data, because i need reliable backups... so what details would you need?
[01:49] <sistpoty> stefg: anything that's uncommon with the files, the partition, fs encoding... whatever comes to your mind
[01:50] <owh> Some reports talk about spaces and back slashes in names, hanging CPU, .lnk files, etc.
[01:50] <sistpoty> hm... I didn't try backslashes yet
[01:51] <owh> sistpoty: That was associated with a report in a Japanese file name IIRC.
[01:52] <stefg> ok... let examine this... the consequence of the whole incidence (unfortunately) was that i altered my partitioning scheme, so the partiton on which it happened does no more exist. The most noticable thing is that it was 25 Gigs on very high sector numbers... last 25 GB on a 160 GB drive
[01:53] <stefg> The files had the mentioned length... a corner case, too
[01:53] <sistpoty> stefg: hm... shouldn't really matter... dosfsck reads the block device of the partition, so the offsets will start with 0 for the partition
[01:55] <owh> sistpoty: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=355903
[01:55] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 355903 in dosfstools "dosfstools: Classifies an acceptable file name as invalid" [Important,Open]  
[01:55] <stefg> and the file system was mostly written by a linux'ish kernel (True Image recovery system). win never complained about something, and since i have a good instinct when a fs is broken, i'd say it was ok before
[01:56] <owh> sistpoty: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=198561
[01:56] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 198561 in dosfstools "dosfsck doesn't like spaces in 8.3 filenames on VFAT" [Unknown,Open]  
[01:56] <sistpoty> stefg: any clue if you had many files in this directory? 
[01:57] <stefg> the drive contained 4 folders, each holding 3-20 files (spanned backup images)
[01:57] <sistpoty> not really uncommon... :(
[01:57] <owh> stefg: What kind of name did the folders have?
[01:58] <sistpoty> stefg: what architecture, i386 or amd64 or s.th. else?
[01:58] <stefg> amd-k7 , nforce2 system... 32bit well proven system :-)
[02:00] <sistpoty> stefg: ok, I tried this only on amd64 (64-bit), maybe I'll have more success on i386
[02:02] <stefg> sistpoty: as far as i remember, dosfsck complained about invalid directory entries and decided to add 0 byte length in the fat... win chkdsk corrected that back
[02:02] <sistpoty> ok
[02:02] <owh> Does that suggest to anyone else that the problem is still with the directory structure rather than the file itself?
[02:03] <owh> Which is what the other reports also talk about?
[02:03] <sistpoty> sorry to say, but I really need to go to bed now
[02:03] <stefg> owh: this is my point... not the file gets corrupted, but the fat
[02:04] <sistpoty> at least I've got some ideas to try tomorrow, I'll report back
[02:04] <sistpoty> thanks for the further info stefg
[02:04] <owh> I'm in Western Australia, so what time would be good?
[02:04] <stefg> np... contact me if can help further
[02:04] <owh> It's 10am here.
[02:05] <sistpoty> I'm in germany (2 am), but will be in university the whole day... so I guess I'm home at 20 utc (maybe a little bit later in front of my box)
[02:05] <owh> Hmm, seems like email is a good option then :-)
[02:06] <sistpoty> owh: or appending further findings to the bug reports ;)
[02:06] <owh> ROTFL
[02:06] <owh> sistpoty: I'll stick them on the end of stefg's report.
[02:06] <sistpoty> owh: great, thx
[02:06] <sistpoty> good night everyone
[02:06] <owh> Sleep tight.
[02:07] <owh> stefg: You're also in Germany?
[02:07] <stefg> yup, Berlin
[02:07] <owh> Hmm, so you'll be heading off to bed soon too I suspect :_)
[02:15] <stefg> BTW, there were no sapces in the names of the corupted files (I knew that some time i'd have to acces them from dos or bash)
[02:17] <owh> Hmm, the changelog has this entry: - dosfsck: remove directory entries pointing to start cluster 0, if they're not "." or ".." entries that should actually point to the root dir (pointed out by Thomas Winkler <twinkler@sysgo.de>)
[02:19] <stefg> theory: a number too big for some variable flips it over to 0.... and get removed subsequently
[02:26] <sistpoty> stefg, owh: ha, just did a quick test with a 32-bit livecd. I could reproduce it immediately :)
[02:26] <stefg> bingo !
[02:26] <sistpoty> should be a simple integer overflow issue... maybe the compiler will even find it for me. I'll try to fix it (but tomorrow *g*)
[02:27] <sistpoty> but now /me is off to bed
[02:28] <sistpoty> good night
[02:28] <stefg> n8
[02:30] <owh> Yah!
[02:37] <stefg> yes... far better to fix dosfstools than doing fstab tricks...
[02:37] <owh> Hell yeah!
[02:38] <stefg> 'tho i still think it's silly to put dosfsck on as a default... ever unintentionally checked a 250 GB USB drive at boot-time?
[02:41] <owh> stefg: No, but the equivalent is to boot a laptop on batteries that decided that it needed an fsck :-) So I guess I understand what you're saying...
[02:42] <owh> stefg: I suspect that it's a fair argument for a wishlist item to change the default.
[02:51] <owh> stefg: How do you like this: check.c: In function scan_dir: check.c:811: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
[02:51] <owh> stefg: There's a whole bunch of them :-)
[02:53] <stefg> ... that's were the bugs feel at home... i observed file coruption even well below the 4 gb limit. plausible 
[03:18] <cprov> BenC: ping
[03:18] <BenC> cprov: pong
[03:18] <cprov> BenC: can you see anything wrong with builds now ?
[03:19] <cprov> BenC: I've re-established the service (as much as I could). Do you miss any important build ?
[03:20] <BenC> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/2.6.20.1
[03:20] <BenC> should not show building
[03:21] <cprov> BenC: and it doesn't ...
[03:22] <BenC> it did when I pasted it :)
[03:22] <BenC> looks good, thanks
[03:23] <cprov> BenC: ohh, fine .. I will go to bed now. call me if anything odd happens again, ok ?
[03:23] <BenC> sure thing
[03:24] <cprov> good night folks
[03:29] <cprov-ZzZ> forgot to mention, cron.daily was skipped this hour, so Don't Panic, your uploads will be considered within one hour.
[05:13] <somerville32> I noticed that there was package accepted in Feisty named: sun-java5 1.5.0-10-1
[05:13] <somerville32> err... wrong chanel
[06:22] <wasabi_> When do Contents-*.gz files get updated?
[10:42] <cjwatson> wasabi_: only manually at the moment, and therefore generally only just before release. This is something the Soyuz team need to work on ...
[10:42] <mvo> cjwatson: could you please accept synaptic 0.57.11ubuntu12.1 into edgy-proposed?
[10:43] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ditto k3d please
[10:44] <cjwatson> whoa, way to welcome an undercoffeed guy in the morning
[10:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I can do those if you want to grab your cup of coffee.
[10:44] <Hobbsee> "drink up, the world's about to end"
[10:45] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: synaptic wasn't approveed yet last I checked
[10:45] <cjwatson> approved
[10:45] <Mithrandir> good morning, Hobbsee 
[10:45] <Hobbsee> evening Mithrandir 
[10:46] <Fujitsu> Hey Mithrandir.
[10:47] <Mithrandir> hiya Fujitsu 
[10:47] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks and good morning :)
[10:49] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: you did both of them?  unapproved looks empty now.
[10:52] <hunger> Anyone got a firewalling script that works with feisty? firestarter and firehol both seem to interfeer with the NM there.
[10:52] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: no, not yet
[10:53] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I think you forgot the -s option
[10:54] <cjwatson> mvo: please subscribe the ubuntu-sru team to the synaptic bug so that I can find it
[10:54] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: and yeesh, 23 minutes old. you're way back in the queue. :)
[10:54] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: :)  i've been at work
[10:55] <cjwatson> no, I mean there are 11 items in front of k3d
[10:55] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: hence the late upload.  i would have uploaded it yesterday, but hadnt got thru the acks
[10:55] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: ahhh well, approve quickly then, and you'll get thru them all in record time!  :)
[10:56] <sivang> morning
[10:57] <Fujitsu> Hi sivang.
[10:57] <Hobbsee> hey sivang 
[10:57] <Mithrandir> Listing ubuntu/edgy-updates (UNAPPROVED) 0/0
[10:57] <sivang> hey dudes and dudettes :)
[10:57] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: edgy-proposed
[10:58] <cjwatson> mvo: synaptic done
[10:58] <Mithrandir> oh, point.
[10:58] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:58] <mvo> cjwatson: great, thanks a lot
[10:58] <mvo> cjwatson: I subscribed ubuntu-sru to the two bugreports too
[10:59] <cjwatson> thanks
[11:01] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: Mithrandir should be able to deal with k3d, since it's already approved
[11:01] <cjwatson> (I think; didn't check very closely)
[11:01] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: it is.  figured that an archive admin needed to do it, and you were there and talking :P
[11:01] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'll do it
[11:01] <Hobbsee> (and doing archive-y things)
[11:01] <Hobbsee> thanks Mithrandir 
[11:02] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: (actually, being asked to do archive-y things, but not yet actually doing so at that point)
[11:03] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: point.  in the future, though....
[11:03] <cjwatson> in future, I'm happy to be tapped for approvals; other archive admins are better targets for actually getting it into the archive
[11:04] <Hobbsee> right
[11:04] <cjwatson> though if there's something uploaded already when I approve it, obviously I'd punt it through at the same time
[11:04] <mneptok> cjwatson: validate me! make me feel loved!
[11:04] <mneptok> *ahem* sorry.
[11:07] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: the source package is relibtoolised; I'll reject it.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how the heck do i stop that?
[11:07] <sivang> Hobbsee: drop the path maybe
[11:08] <Mithrandir> don't test build, probably.
[11:08] <Hobbsee> oh drat, it'll have relibtoolised against feisty, wont it
[11:08] <sivang> Hobbsee: there is probably a relibtoolize patch no?
[11:09] <Mithrandir> p'bly.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just do debuild -S and unless it relibtoolises in clean, you'll be fine.
[11:10] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: it's still rerunning configure with that
[11:11] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: uh, wtf?  It shouldn't.
[11:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: exactly.  but it is
[11:12] <Hobbsee> want to try it yourself?
[11:12] <Hobbsee> i mean, i was using dpkg-buildpackage -sd -S -k<keyid> before, so that should have worked.
[11:15] <Mithrandir> going to, yes.
[11:16] <Hobbsee> thanks
[11:19] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: oh, busted upstream tarball \o/
[11:19] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: oh dear :(
[11:19] <Mithrandir> tar tzf k3d_0.5.12.0.orig.tar.gz|grep Makefile$
[11:19] <Mithrandir> it shouldn't give you any output, it gives you shitloads.
[11:20] <Mithrandir> can you try building it in an edgy chroot?
[11:20] <Mithrandir> if not, I'll review the relibtoolisation, it didn't look too bad
[11:20] <Mithrandir>  libtool          |   30 +++++++++++++++---------------
[11:21] <Mithrandir> (it's more the principle that we don't change build systems unless we need to)
[11:21] <Hobbsee> yeah
[11:21] <Hobbsee> gah,b eing yelled at
[11:21] <Mithrandir> see you later, then
[11:24] <sivang> Mithrandir: what's that Makefile$ notes for?
[11:26] <Mithrandir> sivang: it's a package which uses autoconf and which ships Makefiles in the orig.tar.gz; those are created by configure and depend on where it's built.
[11:27] <sivang> Mithrandir: ah right, I thought you were grepping for contents not file in the list of files ('t') :)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> oh
[11:28] <sivang> Mithrandir: so essentially, the upstream tarball should never contain a 'produced' Makefile, only .am(s) ?
[11:28] <Mithrandir> sivang: if the package uses automake and autoconf, it should contain Makefile.am and Makefile.in
[11:28] <Mithrandir> not generated Makefiles.
[11:30] <cjwatson> mneptok: the Flying Spaghetti Monster loves you more than I will ever be able to
[11:31] <sivang> Mithrandir: right, and how string are we in bugging upstream to change this if they mistakengly include it?
[11:32] <sivang> (we had some discussions/arguments about tsomething similar on -motu a couple of weeks ago)
[11:32] <cjwatson> mvo: please update the description of bug 75273 as described in the "Propose" section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75273 in apt "Apt constantly sigsevs on edgy" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75273
[11:33] <mneptok> cjwatson: you forgot the "PBUH" :)
[11:33] <cjwatson> mvo: can you please try to get a patch without all the POT-Creation-Date changes?
[11:33] <cjwatson> (they're noise)
[11:33] <cjwatson> mneptok: ?
[11:33] <Mithrandir> sivang: it's something I'd have repackaged an .orig.tar.gz for if I had it in one of my packages.
[11:33] <Mithrandir> sivang: and told upstream "please use make dist to make your tar.gz releases"
[11:34] <mneptok> cjwatson: "the Flying Spaghetti Monster (PBUH), first moved in the fastness of the void..."
[11:34] <mneptok> cjwatson: "Peace Be Upon Him"
[11:34] <cjwatson> ah :)
[11:40] <cjwatson> mvo: otherwise the change looks OK, although I'm kind of unimpressed with the != operator segfaulting when its right-hand-side is NULL; perhaps there should be a check in the implementation of that operator instead
[11:41] <cjwatson> mvo: though hmm, I see from the gdb trace that it's std::string::compare(), so I guess you lose there :-(
[11:44] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: uploading again - that was relibtoolised in a clean edgy chroot.
[11:44] <Hobbsee> and rejected.  why?
[11:45] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: do i need to bump the version number again or something?  i thought you rejected the last one
[11:45] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I only rejected the first one, there's one now which has been in the queue for ten seconds which I haven't looked at yet.
[11:45] <Mithrandir> well, it's probably 40 seconds now, but still
[11:46] <Hobbsee> right.  that's the one i just uploaded....
[11:46] <Hobbsee> oh wait, the rejected mail must have been for the first one
[11:46] <Hobbsee> gotcha
[11:46] <Hobbsee> sorry...
[11:46] <Mithrandir> correct
[11:46] <Mithrandir> np
[11:46] <Hobbsee> yep, here it is :)
[11:46] <Hobbsee> sorry for the idiocy :)
[11:46] <Mithrandir> grr, it still relibtoolised
[11:46] <cjwatson> seb128: could you edit the description of bug 60277 to explain the impact etc., per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates? It's quite a long bug and it's easier for you to explain accurately than for us to try to work it out
[11:47] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: yes.  machine name was different
[11:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60277 in nautilus "Windows Network entries use a text icon instead of a computer one" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60277
[11:47] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: and architecture.
[11:47] <Mithrandir> you need to name your machine bert and embrace the amd64 architecture
[11:47] <Mithrandir> :-P
[11:48] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha :)
[11:48] <seb128> cjwatson: I've explained it on the mail I sent to you and mdz about that SRU, I'll copy that on the bug
[11:48] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: well, i could.  StevenK has an amd64 machine, but i dont think he'd like it renamed :P
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: anyway, it overwrites the file so it's probably not important, but if you could check 0.6 of k3d and lart upstream if it's not ok, that'd be lovely.
[11:49] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: how's attacking them with my Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ?
[11:50] <Hobbsee> will that suffice?
[11:50] <cjwatson> seb128: ok, please update the description with that then
[11:50] <Hobbsee> :P
[11:50] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: excellent idea. :-)
[11:50] <Hobbsee> yay!
[11:50] <cjwatson> seb128: it's specifically better to update the description than just add a comment because comments tend to get lost in noise, whereas the description's right up there at the top
[11:50] <Mithrandir> yay pointy sticks.
[11:50] <seb128> cjwatson: good point
[11:54] <seb128> cjwatson: description updated
[11:55] <seb128> cjwatson: screenshoot attached to the bug give a good idea of the problem
[11:57] <seb128> brb, trying gnomevfs 2.17.1 on feisty
[11:57] <Hobbsee> thanks Mithrandir 
[11:58] <mneptok> Hobbsee: name it Brenda!
[11:59] <Hobbsee> mneptok: hehe, why?
[11:59] <mneptok> i ... have no idea.
[11:59] <mneptok> stream of consciousness.
[11:59] <seb128> hi mneptok
[11:59] <Chipzz> seb128: btw, the throbber in nautilus is way to big, dunnow if you noticed that
[11:59] <Mithrandir> bert and brenda.  Perfect match. :-P
[12:00] <mneptok> bienvenue seb :)
[12:00] <seb128> Chipzz: I'm using spatial :p
[12:00] <Chipzz> seb128: and that doesn't have a throbber? :)
[12:00] <seb128> Chipzz: right, they synced the CVS code on epiphany version which fixes some bugs, let's see if today's update will fix that
[12:01] <seb128> Chipzz: no, spatial has no toolbar, only a menu and the window content
[12:01] <Chipzz> seb128: you'll only notice if you have icon size set to small, and text to none btw
[12:01] <mneptok> ack!
[12:01] <Chipzz> seb128: but I'm probably better of filing a bug anyway I suppose ;)
[12:02] <seb128> Chipzz: wait for today's update
[12:02] <Chipzz> seb128: will do
[12:02] <cjwatson> seb128: thanks
[12:02] <seb128> cool
[12:02] <seb128> cjwatson: np
[12:02] <Hobbsee> hah
[12:03] <mneptok> (you'll note i did not clean myself in your presence, per your request)
[12:03] <Chipzz> seb128: though I do suspect the issue is the icon itself rather than the code
[12:04] <seb128> Chipzz: I think that's the icon is scaling to the toolbar rather
[12:04] <Chipzz> seb128: no, because the toolbar expands to fit the throbber
[12:04] <Hobbsee> mneptok: oh dear.
[12:04] <Chipzz> I can see the icons on the toolbar being smaller than the toolbar itself
[12:05] <Chipzz> seb128: nevermind, I'm on crack
[12:05] <seb128> ?
[12:05] <Chipzz> I think what I saw was a nautilus window still open from before the upgrade
[12:06] <Chipzz> new nautilus windows have correctly sized toolbars
[12:06] <seb128> ok
[12:06] <tsmithe> why do you use spatial?!
[12:07] <seb128> tsmithe: because it's faster, cleaner and better? ;)
[12:08] <tsmithe> no way!
[12:08] <tsmithe> it may be faster
[12:08] <tsmithe> not better
[12:08] <tsmithe> it's so cumbersome!
[12:08] <seb128> that's your opinion
[12:08] <tsmithe> indeed
[12:08] <tsmithe> :)
[12:08] <Fujitsu> True.
[12:09] <seb128> no need to troll about it, that's not the right chan
[12:09] <tsmithe> Fujitsu, cos it has gnome-vfs unlike thunar :)
[12:09] <tsmithe> and it's in gnome
[12:09] <seb128> and you have the choice so everybody should be happy
[12:09] <tsmithe> indeed
[12:11] <cjwatson> seb128: what's https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gnome-vfs2/+bug/60277/comments/17 about?
[12:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 60277 in nautilus "Windows Network entries use a text icon instead of a computer one" [Unknown,Fix released]  
[12:12] <mneptok> cjwatson: that sounds like a refresher bug than a UI, Nautilus, or Samba bug. i've seen similar behavior a refresh cures.
[12:13] <cjwatson> mneptok: I'm asking about that specific comment, which indicates that pressing refresh does nothing
[12:13] <seb128> cjwatson: that looks a different issue, smb listing is known to not be perfect on network with firewall by example
[12:13] <seb128> cjwatson: I would say it's not a regression from the patch, would be interesting to know if that worked fine for him on dapper by example
[12:14] <cjwatson> seb128: the changelog from feisty was a lot better ("Allow operations on file handles that were created in another DaemonConnection"). Could you use that for edgy-proposed as well instead of the much less informative "fix browsing of a windows network"?
[12:14] <cjwatson> or perhaps "Allow operations ..., fixing browsing ..."
[12:14] <seb128> cjwatson: sure
[12:15] <cjwatson> if you want to clarify the effect as well as what was changed
[12:16] <seb128> cjwatson: 
[12:16] <seb128>   * debian/patches/91_from_cvs_fix_smb_browsing.patch:
[12:16] <seb128>     - Allow operations on file handles that were created in another
[12:16] <seb128>       DaemonConnection. (This fixes e.g. smb browsing) (Ubuntu: #60277)
[12:17] <cjwatson> yep, that's better
[12:17] <seb128> ok
[12:17] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: getting my Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
[12:17] <Hobbsee> upstream definetly needs larting
[12:17] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: thanks.
[12:18] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:18] <Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~/Desktop$ tar tzf k3d_0.6.5.0.orig.tar.gz|grep Makefile$ | wc -l
[12:18] <Hobbsee> 233
[12:18] <Hobbsee> impressive
[12:18] <Fujitsu> Larting a KDE project with Hobbsee's permission... I never thought I'd see the day!
[12:19] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: :P
[12:19] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: some KDE projects do suck :)
[12:19] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: teach them about make dist.
[12:19] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: *nods*.  i cant just say "please use make dist in your tarballs, kthnksbye!" can i?
[12:20] <Fujitsu> And why not?
[12:21] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: apparently, their release process is just poor.
[12:21] <Mithrandir>   * I do not know why upstream let all the Makefiles and other cruft behind in
[12:22] <Mithrandir>     the tarball, but after running a manual make distclean, the orig.tar.gz is
[12:22] <Mithrandir>     1 MB smaller!  That also fixed the "X-File" problem of letting
[12:22] <Mithrandir>     config.{status,log} files behind.
[12:22] <Mithrandir> from debian/changelog for current feisty.
[12:22] <Hobbsee> ouch
[12:22] <Mithrandir> but yeah, "plz use `make dist`, kthxbye" is fine.
[12:22] <mneptok> is Kthxbye the new KDE logout manager?
[12:22] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[12:22] <Mithrandir> mneptok: excellent suggestion. :-)
[12:23] <elkbuntu> rofl
[12:23] <elkbuntu> i really needed that giggle tonight
[12:23] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: heh, yeah....  *waits for the world to blow up a bit more*
[12:24] <Hobbsee> elkbuntu: you know, i hope the CC doesnt get involved with this, when the CC hasnt even been decided yet.
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Very good mneptok.
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, aw, why not? Fun fun fun!
[12:24] <elkbuntu> Hobbsee, yeah, watch where you poke that stick of yours :|
[12:26] <Hobbsee> awww...i cant seem to find an email address
[12:26] <Hobbsee> found one
[12:27] <seb128> cjwatson: I've an another gnome-vfs patch candidate for edgy-updates (a bug which makes ekiga crash on closing, upstream get dups every day about it and that seems to drive them nuts), what is the procedure in that case. Can we stack 2 fixes to -proposed or should we wait to get the first one to -updates?
[12:30] <cjwatson> seb128: they can be stacked if they're reasonably independent
[12:30] <seb128> ok, good
[12:30] <seb128> thank you
[12:32] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: upstream larted
[12:32] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: yay you!
[12:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:33] <bhale> yay Hobbsee !
[12:33] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:36] <sebest> seb128: hi
[12:36] <seb128> sebest: hey, I got your mail, didn't have time to look at that yet but I'll today, thank you for the work on that ;)
[12:37] <sebest> seb128: ok great, i think we should ask to mvo, about the changes in samba config
[12:37] <seb128> sebest: why mvo? Usually infinity looks after samba I think
[12:38] <sebest> seb128: ah sorry, i just found his email in the samba changelog
[12:38] <seb128> he just fixed a bug afaik
[12:38] <seb128> maybe the samba option changes should be discussed on ubuntu-devel mailinglist
[12:39] <sebest> seb128: yes, you are right
[12:39] <fernando> seb128: thank you by #60277
[12:39] <sebest> seb128: on a side note, i found a "limitation" in nautilus while testing nautilus-share
[12:39] <seb128> fernando: you're welcome :)
[12:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: whoops, sorry I appear to have left cdimage broken for a week
[12:39] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: it should be working a bit better now ...
[12:39] <seb128> sebest: we can fix "limitation" too ;)
[12:40] <sebest> seb128: nautilus doesn't want to move to trash files that doesn't belong to the user even if the parent directory belongs to him
[12:40] <seb128> sebest: I think that's a known bug, maybe a gnomevfs one
[12:40] <sebest> seb128: in fact it's not totally a bug
[12:41] <sebest> because nautilus accept to delete it, but not to trash it
[12:42] <sebest> and we run in this issue when we allow people to write in a share, because the created folder belongs to nobody:nogroup
[12:43] <seb128> maybe Novell wrote a patch for that ;)
[12:43] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: the seed location change?
[12:43] <seb128> would need to look to their package
[12:43] <sebest> seb128: he he :)
[12:43] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: yeah
[12:43] <sebest> seb128: i already backport all the patches from their nautilus-share package 
[12:44] <cjwatson> what with all the organisational changes, I forgot to follow up on that
[12:51] <owh> stefg: Ping
[12:54] <seb128> ogra: new g-p-m available
[12:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I *think* I've fixed the persistent powerpc CD build failures now by telling cp not to preserve ownership
[12:55] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: shout if it shows up again after today ...
[12:55] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yay
[01:02] <stefg> pong
[01:02] <stefg> pong, owh
[01:04] <owh> Ah /me wakes up.
[01:04] <owh> stefg: Did you see the update on your bug, another report, interestingly using the same software you told us about.
[01:05] <stefg> owh... yes. it's funny. Just wrote a comment on that
[01:05] <cjwatson> infinity: could you turn the livefs cron jobs back on, please? They seem to have been disabled since 20061204.
[01:06] <stefg> But you don't get exactly 4 GB-files by chance... so it's plausible tht the problem shows with spanned backups first
[01:06] <ogra> seb128, thanks, already on it :)
[01:06] <owh> stefg: It may also be that there is more than one issue, but we'll go with one to start off with :-)
[01:07] <seb128> ogra: np, cool
[01:07] <ogra> cjwatson, could you promote openbsd-inetd ?
[01:08] <cjwatson> ogra: only if you work out how to get anastacia to say that netkit-inetd should be demoted at the same time
[01:08] <ogra> hmm, k
[01:08] <stefg> owh: actuall all it needs should ba a vmx with a linux fs and a vfat partition of 8 GB or so. dd an empty 4 GB file on the fat32 part. and run a dapper/edgy server install... tht should reproduce it 
[01:09] <cjwatson> ogra: it appears to be in the server-ship seed
[01:09] <cjwatson> ogra: probably just replace that with openbsd-inetd
[01:09] <ogra> in mine or ubuntus ? 
[01:09] <cjwatson> ogra: all of them
[01:09] <cjwatson> ogra: change it in Ubuntu, merge to the rest
[01:09] <ogra> oh, ok
[01:10] <cjwatson> (or get Riddell and janimo to do so)
[01:10] <ogra> will do
[01:10] <cjwatson> thanks
[01:12] <cjwatson> germinate says that's the only thing keeping it there
[01:22] <raphink> hi
[01:22] <raphink> anyone good with sbuild?
[01:25] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: please mention the component when requesting sync, especially when it's not from main.
[01:25] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: which was this for?  was this for the lot i fixed?
[01:26] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: tuxguitar
[01:26] <Hobbsee> or new debian packages
[01:26] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:26] <Hobbsee> requestsync doesnt seem to handle that
[01:26] <Mithrandir> teach it to and send pitti a patch. :-)
[01:26] <Hobbsee> or just get pitti to do it :P
[01:36] <Lure> cjwatson, mdz: re kubuntu sru bug 75017 - can somebody comment on it (we have lot's of people seeing this as regression)
[01:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75017 in kubuntu-default-settings "SRU: remove /.hidden file " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75017
[01:42] <cjwatson> Lure: yeah, I saw that but was waiting until I had time for a quick chat with mdz about it
[01:44] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: why did you subscribe ubuntu-archive to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kvpnc/+bug/64961 ? It's nothing the archive admins can do about this (at this point)
[01:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64961 in kvpnc "kvpnc (0.8.5.1-1) does not work" [Medium,Fix committed]  
[01:45] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: a screwup, and not being able to take you guys out.  i thought i said that in the last comment?
[01:45] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: i went "oh dear, i've ack'd the wrong bug.  i cant undo it.  perhaps i shouldnt be doing this tonight"
[01:45] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you didn't, but I'll unsubscribe us.
[01:45] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: heh, ok
[01:45] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: it seems that i cant :(
[01:45] <Hobbsee> i tried to
[01:46] <cjwatson> yes, you can only unsubscribe yourself or a team you're a member of
[01:46] <Lure> cjwatson: ok, I just did not know if I did everything right to get it on the radar screen (and how quickly to expect the response/decision)
[01:46] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I just did it, so no worries.
[01:46] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: what cjwatson said.  heh :)
[01:46] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: just got confused about why we were subscribed to it.
[01:46] <cjwatson> Lure: it's correctly on the radar, but just a bit controversial. :)
[01:46] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: it was late, i got the wrong tab.  that's all :P
[01:46] <Lure> cjwatson: I know that ;-)
[01:47] <Lure> cjwatson: we had also hot discussion on uds-mtv and kubuntu meeting 
[02:03] <pitti> Riddell, any other KDE user: does "webbrowser.open('http://www.ubuntu.com', True, True)" DTRT under Kubuntu?
[02:06] <Hobbsee> pitti: dtrt?
[02:07] <Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~$ webbrowser.open('http://www.ubuntu.com', True, True)
[02:07] <Hobbsee> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `'http://www.ubuntu.com','
[02:07] <Hobbsee> sarah@sarah:~$ "webbrowser.open('http://www.ubuntu.com', True, True)" DTRT
[02:07] <Hobbsee> bash: webbrowser.open('http://www.ubuntu.com', True, True): No such file or directory
[02:07] <pitti> Hobbsee: open a new konqueror window
[02:07] <pitti> Hobbsee: sorry, in python, after 'import webbrowser'
[02:07] <Hobbsee> ahhhh
[02:07] <Hobbsee> lol
[02:08] <Hobbsee> >>> webbrowser.open('http://www.ubuntu.com', True, True)
[02:08] <Hobbsee> run-mozilla.sh: Cannot execute /opt/firefox/mozilla-firefox-bin.
[02:08] <Hobbsee> pitti: konq's not my default browser
[02:09] <pitti> Hobbsee: urgh, WTF? /opt?
[02:09] <Hobbsee> pitti: running a custom firefox
[02:09] <Hobbsee> *grin*
[02:09] <Hobbsee> (and thunderbird)
[02:10] <pitti> Hobbsee: bah, is it easy/customary to change your system like you did? if so, then I shouldn't user the webbrowser module
[02:11] <pitti> Hobbsee: but x-www-browser doesn't allow me to specify 'use a new window', so I need some more clever code
[02:11] <Hobbsee> pitti: it appears that i've done that in kcontrol.  x-www-browser is still pointing a konq, for some reason
[02:12] <Hobbsee> it's easy, dont know about how normal it is
[02:12] <Mithrandir> doko: you might want to upload the ooo update to -updates when you have the time.
[02:12] <pitti> Hobbsee: so you have a run-mozilla.sh somewhere which points to /opt/firefox/mozilla-firefox-bin which doesn't exist any more?
[02:14] <Hobbsee> pitti: it seems so....
[02:17] <Hobbsee> pitti: the run-mozilla.sh is in the upstream tarball, if you happened to want to eyeball it
[02:17] <pitti> Hobbsee: I have it hee
[02:17] <pitti> here, even
[02:17] <Hobbsee> cool
[02:22] <Hobbsee> pitti: cant figure out how i changed it
[02:22] <Hobbsee> well, hwo to unchange it
[02:23] <pitti> Hobbsee: hm, ok; thank you for trying!
[02:23] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[02:24] <Keybuk> heyhey
[02:25] <Hobbsee> pitti: sorry i cant be more useful
[02:25] <Hobbsee> hey Keybuk 
[02:25] <Hobbsee> pitti: for the kde side - the default browser setting in kde doesnt set x-www-browser, FYI
[02:26] <pitti> Hobbsee: hm, argh
[02:26] <Hobbsee> pitti: hehe, yes, *exactly*
[02:26] <pitti> Hobbsee: do you know what's the 'correct' way of calling konquerer to open a new URL in a new window?
[02:26] <Hobbsee> there'd be a way with dcop, i expect
[02:26] <Hobbsee> but you probably dont want to go there
[02:27] <pitti> the equivalent of 'firefox -browser https://www.ubuntu.com'
[02:28] <Hobbsee> pitti: try konqueror <url>
[02:28] <Hobbsee> kfmclient openURL %u
[02:28] <Hobbsee> as well
[02:28] <pitti> Hobbsee: that'll always open a new window, even if your default is to open a new tab?
[02:28] <jelmer> quit
[02:29] <Hobbsee> pitti: seems to
[02:29] <Hobbsee> pitti: yep
[02:29] <bhale> hi jelmer :)
[02:29] <bhale> hi pitti 
[02:29] <pitti> Hobbsee: *hug*, thanks
[02:30] <pitti> Hobbsee: so I think I'll do the following: first try firefox, if that fails, try kfm, if that fails, call x-www-browser
[02:30] <pitti> Hobbsee: I guess ffox won't be installed by default on Kubuntu?
[02:30] <Hobbsee> sorry - the konqueror bit i tried
[02:30] <Hobbsee> ffox isnt, no
[02:30] <StevenK> pitti: Actually, 'firefox -browser https://www.ubuntu.com' does something interesting here on Edgy.
[02:30] <pitti> StevenK: makes you a cup of tea?
[02:30] <StevenK> pitti: It opens a new window, and a new tab in the existing window and www.ubuntu.com opens in the new tab.
[02:31] <pitti> StevenK: oops, you are right. suck
[02:31] <StevenK> pitti: Sorry. :-)
[02:31] <pitti> bah, this apparently trivial task starts to become a real nuisance
[02:31] <Hobbsee> pitti: kfmclient openURL <full url> also works
[02:31] <bhale> firefox-remote can do it explicitly
[02:32] <bhale> http://aquariusoft.org/page/linux/firefox_openinnewtab/
[02:32] <bhale> like so
[02:32] <Hobbsee> pitti: the advantage of the kfmclient is that it will use a preloaded one, if one exists.
[02:34] <pitti> bhale: yay, firefox -remote "openURL(http://www.ubuntu.com, new-window)" DTRT
[02:34] <pitti> Hobbsee: great, then I use kfmclient for Kubuntu
[02:35] <pitti> Hobbsee: would you agree to prefer ffox under kubuntu if it is installed?
[02:35] <pitti> since that's probably an explicit decision
[02:36] <Hobbsee> pitti: i'd prefer to use whatever the default browser is listed in kcontrol, in kubuntu.  right now, i dont know what that settign is though
[02:36] <Hobbsee> i suspect you'd have people whining if you made a decision one way or the other on that oen
[02:36] <pitti> Hobbsee: (context: bug-reporting-tool and crash report user interface -> Malone window)
[02:36] <Lure> pitti: kde has setting of default browser and it should just work with kfmclient
[02:36] <pitti> Hobbsee: in edgy it uses your default browser settings
[02:37] <Hobbsee> pitti: yep.  the reason to change would be?
[02:37] <pitti> Hobbsee: but, if you configured your browser to open stuff in new tabs and have it on another workspace, then you'll never see the apport windwo
[02:37] <pitti> Hobbsee: so I got a lot of complaints about that
[02:37] <Hobbsee> ah yes, i see the problem
[02:37] <pitti> Hobbsee: at UDS we figured that forcing a new window in this case would be better
[02:37] <pitti> since it's more like a slightly odd new application window
[02:37] <Hobbsee> it would.  can you force it on the current desktop?
[02:38] <pitti> Hobbsee: if you open a new window, it would be on the current desktop
[02:38] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, duh
[02:38] <pitti> Hobbsee: it's not such a big deal for Kubuntu ATM anyway, since Kubuntu doesn't use apport right now
[02:38] <pitti> but it might in the future
[02:38] <Hobbsee> true, but it needs to be thought about
[02:39] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, i see the problem.  hmmm...
[02:44] <Hobbsee> pitti: default kde browser is in ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals, it seems.  if BrowserApplication=kde-konqbrowser.desktop, use kfmclient..., for firefox check if the string contains firefox, i guess.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> for anything else...dunno
[02:45] <pitti> Hobbsee: sweet dreams!
[02:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: :) thankyou :)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: you're aware that kde already has a bug reportnig feature, but not a crash one, presumably?
[02:47] <pitti> Hobbsee: yes, I am
[02:47] <Hobbsee> cool, just checking
[02:47] <pitti> Hobbsee: but I'd still like to get the code right for Kubuntu too, just in case
[02:48] <Hobbsee> pitti: sounds very sensible to me.  that only works for kde apps, after all.
[02:48] <Hobbsee> and very few of us keep full kde desktops
[02:51] <pitti> cjwatson: got 30 seconds to talk about apport/ubiquity?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> pitti: I WIN!!!
[02:58] <pitti> Hobbsee: wow, finished sleeping already? :)
[02:58] <elmo> Burgundavia: ping
[02:59] <Hobbsee> pitti: just use kfmclient openURL http://www.ubuntu.com
[02:59] <Hobbsee> pitti: you dont need to grep the file at all - kfmclient handles that
[02:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: 'that'?
[02:59] <pitti> figuring out the default browser and such ?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> (the only problem is if you've got the option in firefox set to force all new windows into a new tab)
[02:59] <Hobbsee> yep
[02:59] <pitti> Hobbsee: cool; that's much like gnome-open then
[02:59] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:00] <Hobbsee> yeah, it is
[03:00] <Hobbsee> might even rock more than gnome-open, looking at this manpage
[03:00] <pitti> http://developer.kde.org/documentation/other/kfmclient.html, nice
[03:00] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:02] <Hobbsee> oh dear.  work starts in 7.5 hours :(
[03:02] <Hobbsee> night pitti, all
[03:02] <pitti> night Hobbsee 
[03:32] <doko> Mithrandir: yes, got approval from cjwatson
[04:11] <cjwatson> pitti: yes, sorry for the delay (phone, then parents)
[04:12] <pitti> cjwatson: I'd like to get rid of the apport_utils.py module and fan out stuff into the 'apport' python package (thus: import apport.foo) to get a proper namespace
[04:13] <pitti> cjwatson: so I can either leave apport_utils.py and write stubs into it that call the new functions
[04:13] <pitti> cjwatson: or just give you a patch for ubiquity to use the new methods
[04:13] <pitti> cjwatson: I'd prefer the latter, are you fine with that?
[04:13] <cjwatson> pitti: feel free to commit to the ubiquity branch on the supermirror
[04:13] <pitti> cjwatson: (ubiquity is the only package that uses it ATM)
[04:13] <pitti> cjwatson: alright, thanks
[04:13] <cjwatson> sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubiquity/trunk
[04:14] <cjwatson> Breaks: ubiquity (<< whatever-the-new-version-is) would be appreciated in apport
[04:14] <pitti> cjwatson: btw, last time I tried ubiquity, I just got ubiquity's standard exception dialog; does it only use apport under certain conditions?
[04:14] <cjwatson> actually, no, you don't need to Breaks: ubiquity because it's conditional, so please ignore that
[04:14] <pitti> cjwatson: wouldn't like to add it either; the python-apport-utils package is going to go away entirely anyway
[04:15] <cjwatson> pitti: I disabled the use of apport in edgy because the workflow didn't seem as good to me as the previous code yet; the crash reporting improvements in feisty with the Malone cloakroom stuff should mean that it's worth using it
[04:15] <pitti> it moves into python-apport which now has the complete package with the modules
[04:15] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, right; so that worked just as intended
[04:16] <pitti> cjwatson: I hope to get the cloakroom stuff working on the distro sprint with Bjorn; maybe we'll also find some time to integrate ubiquity as well
[04:16] <cjwatson> pitti: it should write a crash dump, though
[04:16] <cjwatson> that's merely conditional on the apport modules being importable
[05:46] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Did you do anything with your uswsusp code?
[05:47] <twb> Mithrandir: ping?
[06:35] <_lemsx1_> hello all
[06:35] <_lemsx1_> in Edgy at boot running a script from /etc/rcS.d/S01* the program "runlevel" returns "unknown" instead of S
[06:36] <_lemsx1_> how can I go about this issue? should I open a bug?
[06:37] <_lemsx1_> ah, i see, the bug is in /etc/event.d/rcS
[07:56] <Mirv> is there a higher quality version of Experience ubuntu clip available? at least Canonical owns the copyright, so I'd guess there is. it'd be nice to try to encode a bit higher quality ogg aout of it.
[07:57] <Mirv> (I'm sharing it to people at our LoCoTeam site, via Fluendo's Cortado Java applet and of course directly)
[08:38] <Burgwork> elmo: pong
[08:46] <_gpg_> hi all
[08:47] <_gpg_> i've a question undirectly related to linux (hope it wont be enoying)
[08:47] <_gpg_> does Ubuntu use any software to manage all ubuntu display screens ?
[09:20] <apokryphos> mdke: thanks for your blog post and coupon :). Yours was the third mention of dreamhost I heard this week, so decided it was time to sign up.
[09:21] <mdke> apokryphos: np
[09:28] <Keybuk> mjg59: so, err, why is ondemand not being set at boot?
[09:29] <mjg59> Keybuk: I've, er, no idea
[09:29] <mjg59> Check that gnome-power-manager isn't doing something stupid to it
[09:29] <mjg59> But I haven't touched powernowd
[09:29] <mjg59> Oh dear.
[09:29] <fabbione> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/udev_whole_disk.debdiff <- thanks :)
[09:29] <mjg59> The HPLIP preferences applet wants pyqt.
[09:30] <Keybuk> mjg59: nobody has :-/  I guess it must be g-p-m
[09:30] <Keybuk> fabbione: it worked ok?
[09:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: g-p-m needs saner preferences
[09:30] <fabbione> Keybuk: yeps.. pushing the kernel patch now
[09:30] <mjg59> Defaults, rather
[09:31] <mjg59> Though I'm tempted to hide the cpu management as well
[09:31] <mdke> the upstream maintainer seems quite receptive to ideas about defaults
[09:31] <mdke> I left a comment on his blog about screen brightness dimming and he has changed it
[09:32] <Keybuk> mjg59: yes, it is g-p-m setting the governor
[09:32] <Keybuk> (checked via strace)
[09:33] <Keybuk> and if you set "Do Nothing", it sets it to userspace
[09:33] <Keybuk> OH JOY
[09:33] <mjg59> Ok.
[09:33] <Keybuk> ssseeeeebbbbbbbbb!
[09:33] <mjg59> Let me nuke that.
[09:43] <mjg59> Keybuk: Two ways of solving this:
[09:43] <mjg59> Keybuk: (1) Remove all the cpufreq code from g-p-m
[09:44] <mjg59> Keybuk: (2) Remove the UI from g-p-m, leave the code in the backend so people can set keys manually if they want
[09:44] <Burgwork> mjg59: looking at the csv changelog, I thought hugshie already did 2
[09:45] <mjg59> Burgwork: Oh? Last shot I saw, it still had the UI functionality
[09:45] <mjg59> Let me check
[09:45] <Burgwork> might be wrong, but I was browsing the cvs changelog last night
[09:46] <mjg59> Burgwork: Closest I can find is a reference to removing the userspace governor
[09:46] <Burgwork> that might be it
[09:46] <mjg59> I'll grab the glade file and take a look
[09:47] <fabbione> cjwatson: thanks for the installer
[09:48] <mjg59> Burgwork: Still seems to be there
[09:50] <cypher1> can anyone do the merges ?
[10:14] <dpack> hi, could someone please explain why some changes in the *-changes lists are sent by "Ubuntu installer"?
[10:14] <dpack> is the "Ubuntu installer" an automatic merging program of some kind?
[10:14] <pitti> hi
[10:14] <dpack> hi martin.
[10:15] <Adri2000> dpack: I think it's for uploads which have been approved manually for example
[10:15] <mdke> is the process for installing flash with browsers going to be different for feisty? We may have to change the docs
[10:16] <dpack> The notification has a "Changed-By" field that I think might be who approved the upload, but the packages uploaded by "Ubuntu installer" are usually stock debian packages without any ubuntu modifications...
[10:17] <dpack> So I'm wondering what process triggers the notification process by "Ubuntu installer" to the *-changes lists?
[10:17] <dpack> is this a bad place to ask these kinds of questions?
[10:18] <Adri2000> syncs are "changed-by" ubuntu installer
[10:18] <dpack> Adri2000: do syncs happen automatically?
[10:19] <Adri2000> they are requested by a developer
[10:21] <dpack> Maybe whomever triggered the sync is put into the changed-by field in the notification sent by the "Ubuntu installer"?
[10:21] <keescook> hiya pitt
[10:21] <keescook> i
[10:21] <keescook> :)
[10:22] <ajmitch> hi pitti, keescook 
[10:22] <keescook> hey ajmitch 
[10:23] <dpack> guys, I'm doing some research on Ubuntu and its relationship to its sponsor Canonical. Is there any way to distinguish between an Ubuntu developer employed by Canonical and a volunteer?
[10:24] <Adri2000>  <dpack> Maybe whomever triggered the sync is put into the changed-by field in the notification sent by the "Ubuntu installer"? < yes, maybe :) but I'm sure there are people more able to answer your questions than me :)
[10:24] <mjg59> dpack: You can ask them, and if they say they work for Canonical, they're probably not a volunteer...
[10:25] <mdke> dpack: those who work for Canonical have small red flames in the very centre of their eyes
[10:25] <dpack> Matthew, would it be polite to ask?
[10:25] <crimsun_> (note the @canonical e-mail.)
[10:26] <mdke> also, there is an incomplete list on the wiki at CanonicalStaff
[10:26] <ivoks> right... they get @canonial.com, spam-free mails
[10:26] <dpack> Most of the Ubuntu developers just use @ubuntu.com...
[10:26] <mjg59> dpack: I don't believe there's any flag in Launchpad that indicates whether someone is Canonical staff or not
[10:26] <pitti> hey ajmitch 
[10:26] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanonicalStaff, for cliccability
[10:27] <mc44> dpack: attend a distro team meeting. nearly all will be canonical :)
[10:27] <ajmitch> mdke: I could just about believe that about the flames
[10:28] <dpack> thanks, CanonicalStaff on the wiki is a nice start, but I don't think its complete.
[10:28] <mdke> ajmitch: it's due to excessive coffee, I suppose
[10:28] <mdke> dpack: no, of course it's not. Note: it's generally quite difficult to get complete lists of employees of companies
[10:28] <jdub> dpack: the bags under their eyes.
[10:29] <mdke> jdub: your bags are healing up?
[10:29] <dpack> For example, michael vogt is not on the list, and I'm pretty sure he's working for Canonical on package management in Ubuntu.
[10:29] <mdke> you can add him
[10:30] <mjg59> dpack: It would probably help if we had some idea why you wanted to know
[10:30] <mc44> dpack: yes, mdke pointed out it is an incomplete list
[10:30] <dpack> Well Matthew, I'm trying to figure out how much of a community distribution Ubuntu is at the moment. That is, how much of the burden is carried by Canonical employees vs volunteers. 
[10:32] <mjg59> dpack: At a rough guess, core-dev is probably 50/50. -dev is (as far as I know) entirely volunteers.
[10:32] <dpack> Ubuntu is only part of my research though, I'm also researching the distribution of work load in Debian.
[10:32] <dpack> mjg59: but many of the core-dev people are inactive...
[10:33] <mjg59> Yes
[10:33] <dpack> mjg59: half of them might be non-Canonical people, but their contribution is not as significant.
[10:34] <mjg59> main is always going to be dominated by employees. That's what they're paid to do.
[10:34] <thom> well, no. people who work full time on something are almost guaranteed to be more active than people who aren't
[10:34] <dpack> there's also the problem that Debian is facing with dunc-tank, that having employees work alongside volunteers is a bit difficult sometimes.
[10:34] <mjg59> dpack: I've been voluntarily working on Ubuntu since before Warty was released. I haven't seen any issues.
[10:35] <mc44> dpack: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37820/ is core dev divided up for you
[10:36] <dpack> mjg59: it all comes down to the people involved. In Ubuntu its been that day from day one so I guess its less of an issue. Debian is having some real difficulties with it.
[10:36] <Burgwork> mc44: lamont jones is HP, former Canonical
[10:36] <mjg59> Where "some real difficulties" is "A small percentage of Debian developers"
[10:36] <mc44> Burgwork: aha
[10:36] <dpack> perhaps, a vocal minority.
[10:37] <dpack> mc44: what is this list you sent me?
[10:37] <dpack> y/n is yes no canonical employee?
[10:37] <mc44> dpack: yes
[10:37] <pitti> dpack: well, it's hard to compare -- one of Debian's main goals has always been 'completely freely developed', whereas Ubuntu was designed for corporate backing
[10:37] <mc44> dpack: although not all Canonical are distro team members
[10:38] <dpack> mjg59: according to the list mc44 sent me, you are not employed by Canonical. Is that accurate?
[10:38] <pitti> dpack: so I can perfectly understand the guys who oppose dunc-tank (I'm not really happy about it either)
[10:39] <mjg59> dpack: That's why I said that I've been voluntarily working on Ubuntu since before Warty, yes
[10:39] <dpack> mc44: thanks, this is very useful.
[10:40] <dpack> mjg59: heh, I had you pegged as a Canonical employee because of your previous involvement with Debian and early involvement with Ubuntu.
[10:43] <dpack> what I don't yet understand is how Ubuntu can have a significant percentage of the activity of Debian with such a tiny work force...
[10:43] <dpack> Debian average 2900 changes a month, and Ubuntu has roughly 60% of that. I'm not sure if I should filter out updates by "Ubuntu installer"
[10:43] <zul> too much politicking in debian
[10:44] <bhale> updates by Ubuntu installer means that change was automated
[10:44] <bhale> or done by someone who is not whitelisted
[10:45] <pitti> (yay langpack uploads ;) )
[10:45] <dpack> Brandon, what do you mean by whitelisted?
[10:46] <dpack> ok, so maybe I should discount uploads by "Ubuntu installer"
[10:47] <dpack> BTW, why does ubuntu create a separate -changes list for each release instead of doing it like Debian that has stable-changes and devel-changes
[10:47] <mdke> I've had some uploads sponsored which appear as "Ubuntu installer", but others have appeared as me, go figure
[10:48] <dpack> mdke: could you give me specific examples? perhaps Ubuntu changed something in the infrastructure?
[10:49] <mdke> I'll try and find some
[10:49] <thom> can you please go to #ubuntu-offtopic
[10:49] <thom> since this is utterly, well, offtopic
[10:49] <dpack> Oh, another thing I couldn't quite figure out because its locked away in a restricted section at canonical.com's web site is what exactly is Soyuz. A web interface to a slightly modified dak?
[10:51] <jdub> dpack: because ubuntu has releases, not just descriptors
[10:52] <dpack> launchpad doesn't have reference to dak, but katie is mentioned, so I'm assuming Ubuntu uses the same infrastructure as Debian. Except for this Soyuz bit, which I'm not sure is anything more than a launchpad module, or something else...
[10:52] <dpack> jdub: what is the difference? How are Ubuntu's releases different from Debian's?
[10:52] <jdub> dpack: astoundingly more regular, which creates different demands
[10:52] <jdub> dpack: there's not just "stable" and "devel"
[10:53] <jdub> dpack: i would be annoyed if i got breezy, dapper and edgy updates on one mailing list (because i don't care about some of them)
[10:54] <dpack> jdub: but technically is anything different? (other than management and mailing lists) Ubuntu keeps a unified pool I think and the releases are just pointers into the pool right?
[10:54] <jdub> yep
[10:56] <dpack> thom: sorry, but I doubt the nice people at ubuntu-offtopic are qualified to answer my questions.
[10:58] <dpack> ok, back to the subject of Ubuntu syncs from Debian: what software actually does that in Ubuntu?
[10:59] <dpack> nevermind, I just found merges.ubuntu.com
[11:00] <Adri2000> sync != merge
[11:01] <dpack> Adri2000: oh, what is the difference?
[11:03] <Adri2000> sync a package = import the package from debian with no change. a merge is needed when the package has been modified in ubuntu, then we merge the last debian version with the ubuntu changes
[11:03] <mdke> have you had a look at the developer pages on the wiki dpack? It might save you time asking here
[11:03] <mdke> this info should be there
[11:04] <dpack> mdke: yes, I am looking at them. I'm just a bit confused, but you're right, I should finish my home work first. 
[11:05] <dpack> cheers guys, thanks for the information.
[11:05] <mdke> there are sections on merges and syncs and such
[11:26] <mdke> is dholbach on holiday?
[11:31] <pitti> wb seb128
[11:31] <seb128> re
[11:31] <seb128> some days I hate linux
[11:31] <seb128> network card broke with 2.6.20 and no way to stop the fsck on reboot (n mounts without fsck)
[11:33] <mdke> yes, the latter is probably a bug for more users
[11:33] <mdke> s/more/most
[11:36] <jdub> morning seb128 
[11:36] <jdub> seb128: which card?
[11:36] <seb128> hey hey jdub
[11:37] <seb128> an old realtek 8029 which was working fine until 2.6.17
[11:37] <jdub> erk
[11:37] <jdub> a classic!
[11:38] <seb128> I've reboot with 2.6.17
[11:38] <seb128> haha
[11:38] <seb128> I had modern hardware, but it broke
[11:38] <seb128> and I had that card not used
[11:38] <bhale> hey jdub seb128 
[11:38] <seb128> so I used it to get my network back
[11:38] <seb128> and it's working fine since, so I didn't bother changing it :p
[11:38] <seb128> hi bhale
[11:39] <bhale> new nautilus is cute
[11:39] <bhale> the cairo thing is super fast
[11:40] <bhale> the whole thing feels faster really
[11:42] <seb128> cool :)
[11:42] <jdub> FAST AND CUTE
[11:42] <jdub> i will have to upgrade.
[11:42] <bhale> do it
[11:42] <pitti> jdub: go nuts :)
[11:44] <seb128> jdub: how do I update a patch with quilt?
[11:44] <seb128> ups
[11:44] <seb128> pitti: ^
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches
[11:44] <pitti> quilt push -a
[11:45] <pitti> <fiddle with files>
[11:45] <pitti> quilt refresh
[11:45] <pitti> quilt pop -a
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: or, if the patch is not on top of stack, replace '-a' with the patch name
[11:45] <seb128> ok, thank you
[11:46] <pitti> seb128: and if you need to modify files that weren't touched by the patch before, 'quilt add file' before editing file
[11:47] <jdub> rhythmbox (0.9.7-0ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
[11:47] <jdub>     - Use gnome-power-manager to inhibit suspend while playing
[11:47] <jdub> doesn't that seem backwards?
[11:47] <jdub> hrm
[11:47] <jdub> i guess not
[11:47] <jdub> as long as it gets an explicit suspend message
[11:48] <jdub> so it can stop
[11:48] <seb128> pitti: thank you
[11:48] <jdub> at least it's smarter than windows!
[11:48] <bhale> jdub: last.fm playback in rb is the most half baked thing i have ever seen in gnome
[11:48] <seb128> I don't like quilt
[11:48] <jdub> wmp being open at *all* stops suspend
[11:48] <seb128> I'm switching that patch back to simple-patchsys, screw Debian guy :p
[11:48] <bhale> jdub: http://tseng.ath.cx/~brandon/rbsucks.png
[11:49] <pitti> seb128: takes some time to get used to, right
[11:49] <seb128> for a small package like file-roller I don't get the interest
[11:49] <bhale> jdub: double clicking an item in that list view does absolutely NOTHING
[11:50] <j^> how should i talk to about missing php5 deb files in dapper-security?
[11:50] <pitti> seb128: if it's just replacing the cdbs module, that's easy ;)
[11:50] <seb128> yep
[11:50] <bhale> jdub: i have gotten 2 different (useless) error dialogs
[11:50] <jdub> bhale: good work going on there, though
[11:50] <keescook> j^: what's missing?
[11:50] <bhale> jdub: would love to see it...
[11:50] <bhale> "Couldnt start playback: (null)"
[11:50] <j^> keescook: current dapper-security has http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/php5/libapache2-mod-php5_5.1.2-1ubuntu3.3_amd64.deb
[11:51] <j^> but that is missing, in http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/p/php5/ i can find a newer version
[11:52] <keescook> j^: current php5 in dapper is 5.1.2-1ubuntu3.4
[11:52] <keescook> j^: what are you trying to find?
[11:54] <j^> keescook: in that case the problem might be on my side, apt-cache show php5 lists 5.1.2-1ubuntu3.3 here
[11:55] <pitti> 'use apt-get update, Luke!'
[11:55] <pitti> :)
[11:55] <j^> haha
[11:55] <j^> did that several times
[11:55] <pitti> j^: apt-cache policy php5?
[11:56] <j^> i removed /var/lib/apt/lists/*
[11:56] <j^> now it lists the new version
[11:56] <j^> strange