[12:21] <poolie> hello jamesh
[12:21] <poolie> jamesh, or someone else, when/how oc
[12:21] <poolie> often is the production lp updated to new code?
[12:30] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[01:10] <mpt> poolie, usually every one or two weeks
[01:10] <jamesh> poolie: it was updated on Friday
[01:11] <jamesh> poolie: there are occasional cherrypicks between full rollouts too
[01:11] <jamesh> poolie: the details of the current rollout are here: https://launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadProductionStatus
[01:14] <mpt> "Add affected product to bug"? hrmmmmmm
[01:15] <mpt> I've heard of bad programmers adding bugs to products, but I've never heard of anyone adding a product to a bug
[01:47] <kiko-afk> mpt, yeah, that text sucks. feel free to fix it without using the word "task".
[01:48] <kiko-afk> the reason I mention that is because that phrase is a big workaround for the lack of "task"
[02:02] <jamesh> mpt: did you get the mugshot invite?
[02:12] <mpt> kiko-afk, yeah, and the page <title> and heading have different ideas of how to do that :-)
[02:15] <kiko-afk> mpt, well, don't blame me, I wanted to say "task" all along :-)
[02:19] <mpt> jamesh, ah yes, it was in my Junk folder
[02:20] <mpt> thanks
[02:20] <jamesh> the other interesting thing about mugshot is that passwords are optional
[02:20] <jamesh> if you don't have a password set for your account, you can ask it to mail you a login link
[02:21] <jamesh> you click on the link in the email and you're logged in
[02:25] <kiko-afk> I don't really get mugshot jamesh 
[02:25] <kiko-afk> I mean
[02:25] <kiko-afk> as a project for the team working on it
[02:26] <kiko-afk> I guess I'm asking: what's it supposed to do for us that orkut doesn't? :)
[02:27] <jamesh> kiko-afk: well, it hasn't been taken over by Brazilians :)
[02:27] <kiko-afk> that's not a plus!
[02:27] <jamesh> kiko-afk: mugshot appears to be built on top of the "Red Hat application stack"
[02:28] <jamesh> java, servlets, hibernate, etc
[02:28] <jamesh> perhaps they are doing it as a technology demo
[02:28] <jamesh> (partly)
[02:28] <kiko-afk> I didn't know that, interesting
[02:29] <kiko-afk> johan tried to make a point it was a platform for redhat services
[02:29] <kiko-afk> but.. I find that hard to believe
[02:45] <kiko-afk> mpt, can you survive without BjornT's changes as per his email Subject: Re: Launchpad 1.0 Web interface: new code needed
[02:45] <kiko-afk> ?
[02:57] <mpt> kiko-afk, until January? sure
[08:33] <carlos_> morning
[08:42] <thumper> morning carlos
[08:45] <mpt> hi carlos 
[10:21] <SteveA> morning
[10:25] <jamesh> so, loggerhead looks like it only supports browsing a single branch per instance
[10:25] <jamesh> (at the moment)
[10:34] <SteveA> jamesh: ping
[10:34] <SteveA> mpt: ping
[10:34] <SteveA> spiv: ping
[10:34] <jamesh> SteveA: pong
[10:34] <SteveA> stu1: ping
[10:34] <SteveA> jamesh: I'm about to mail you your feedback report.  Around for a call in a bit?
[10:34] <jamesh> okay
[10:34] <mpt> SteveA, pong
[10:35] <SteveA> mpt: I'mabout to mail you your feedback report.  Around for a call about now?
[10:35] <stub> SteveA: pong
[10:35] <mpt> SteveA, yes
[10:35] <SteveA> stub: we had a chat already.  I'll mail you the report, and we can have another chat later.
[10:40] <SteveA> mpt: ok.  tell me when you've received the report, then when you're read it, and we can have the call.
[10:41] <mpt> SteveA, received
[11:04] <mpt> SteveA, read
[11:05] <SteveA> mpt: skype?
[11:05] <mpt> sure
[11:16] <carlos> kiko-afk: around?
[11:59] <SteveA> jamesh: skype call?
[11:59] <jamesh> SteveA: okay
[12:12] <kiko-afk> carlos, yeah
[12:13] <carlos> kiko: I forgot to tell you that I'm not planning to get any vacations in January
[12:21] <mpt> BjornT, around? (I just got bugmail from you, so maybe you are)
[12:22] <cprov> kiko: ping
[12:22] <kiko> hey cprov 
[12:22] <SteveA> matthewrevell, mpt: ping.
[12:22] <mpt> pong
[12:22] <matthewrevell> SteveA: hi
[12:22] <SteveA> so, we just had a user getting confused between demo / staging / production
[12:23] <SteveA> this confusion will only get worse, now that we have
[12:23] <SteveA> production / demo / staging / beta and edge servers
[12:23] <cprov> kiko: hey, can we apply the DB constraint stub has suggested ?
[12:23] <SteveA> I think we should have some kind of unique visual identity to the different services
[12:23] <kiko> SteveA, yeah, definitely.
[12:23] <SteveA> beta already has this, as it is ui 1.0
[12:23] <kiko> staging should say
[12:24] <kiko> STAGING: CHANGES HERE WILL BE NUKED
[12:24] <SteveA> we need to show on staging and demo that is isn't real data
[12:24] <mpt> This is bug 65800
[12:24] <SteveA> and edge that it is "edge" -- crack of the day
[12:24] <mpt> which is incorrectly a duplicate
[12:24] <jamesh> one other thing I noticed about the CSS/images/etc on LP with the new multi-domain setup: https://launchpad.net/ uses https://launchpad.net/@@/launchpad.css, https://bugs.launchpad.net/@@/launchpad.css, etc
[12:24] <SteveA> mpt, matthewrevell: please come up with a suggestion of how we can very simply modify the visuals on each page of these servers to include
[12:25] <jamesh> so when you switch facets, you end up re-downloading all the CSS, images and javascript
[12:25] <SteveA> something to explain this
[12:25] <SteveA> we'll need to configure it through launchpad.conf
[12:25] <matthewrevell> mpt: Are you going to bed soon?
[12:25] <SteveA> so, it should be something we can do in the main template
[12:25] <mpt> matthewrevell, very :-)
[12:26] <SteveA> it could be as simple as a YELLOW bar on the top of the page
[12:26] <SteveA> saying what the server is, and that it is not a production server
[12:26] <kiko> jamesh, don't you end up redownloading all of this because of SSL anyway?
[12:26] <SteveA> jamesh: please file a bug on that one for me.  I'll fix that.  easy fix.
[12:26] <jamesh> SteveA: a very simple way would be to put an id attribute on the <html> element in the main template set to production, staging, demo or edge
[12:27] <jamesh> SteveA: then we can use static CSS like html.staging { background-color: yellow }
[12:27] <mpt> SteveA, so what should the Importance of bug 65800 be?
[12:27] <jamesh> actually, html#staging
[12:27] <mpt> Ubugtu, wake up
[12:27] <mpt> it's "Staging should obviously be a demo"
[12:27] <jamesh> kiko: you cache it during your session
[12:28] <jamesh> kiko: but you cache it once for each domain
[12:28] <kiko> jamesh, are you sure? because I know images aren't cached.
[12:28] <kiko> they are cached once per page
[12:28] <kiko> and when I visit a second page I know that at least the colouring of the breadcrumbs goes away for a second
[12:29] <kiko> maybe that's the image being reloaded
[12:29] <mpt> kiko, right, that's why our top-requested resources in the webstats are all images
[12:29] <SteveA> mpt: I have no comment on that bug.  I want demo and staging and edge to be distinctive within the next 2-3 weeks maximum
[12:29] <mpt> except for the style sheet
[12:29] <SteveA> so, these should come from the same server
[12:29] <kiko> mpt, so the CSS is cached but the images are not? WTF?
[12:29] <mpt> SteveA, right, that's what the bug's about
[12:29] <SteveA> there should be an option to make them served over HTTP
[12:29] <SteveA> mpt: the bug is not about demo and staging and edge
[12:30] <SteveA> a per-browser cookie option that is
[12:30] <mpt> only because back then we didn't have demo and edge - I could expand it
[12:30] <jamesh> kiko: they should be getting cached ...
[12:30] <kiko> jamesh, images? or CSS?
[12:30] <SteveA> kiko: we discussed this a while ago, when you were talking about launchpad being slow in brasil
[12:30] <kiko> because images for a fact are not
[12:30] <kiko> not only in brazil
[12:30] <jamesh> kiko: they don't seem to be though (according to LiveHTTPHeaders)
[12:30] <kiko> but in comparison with any other site
[12:31] <mpt> kiko, by "except for the style sheet" I meant "all our top-requested resources are images, except for the style sheet (which is also one of the top-requested)"
[12:31] <jamesh> kiko: so I guess using different URLs for the different sites isn't as much of a problem right now :)
[12:31] <kiko> jamesh, this is a long-standing problem. I'm just curious about CSS getting cached while images are not
[12:31] <SteveA> ok.  stop.  this has already been discussed.  I want to explain what we should do.
[12:31] <kiko> but if that was a false report then fine.
[12:31] <mpt> SteveA, serving HTTP images in HTTPS pages causes some browsers (e.g. Internet Explorer) to complain bitterly
[12:31] <SteveA> mpt: I know.
[12:31] <mpt> ok
[12:32] <kiko> mpt, how bitterly?
[12:32] <SteveA> ok
[12:32] <SteveA> first, we need a blueprint for making the best use of HTTP features for serving images and other static content
[12:32] <SteveA> this spec needs to cover
[12:32] <SteveA>  - cacheing images + css + .js
[12:33] <SteveA>  - loading them with ?rev=N as appropriate, so we can rev them in sync on new rollouts
[12:33] <SteveA>  - (by cacheing, I mean applying correct and simple cacheing headers, not complicated cacheing headers)
[12:33] <SteveA>  - using a single host for getting static content
[12:33] <mpt> kiko, see "Graphics from Librarian over HTTP cause browser warnings on Launchpad over HTTPS" <https://launchpad.net/bugs/30370>
[12:34] <SteveA>  - having an option (default off) to load static content over HTTP, per user/browser using a cookie probably
[12:34] <kiko> I don't quite get what cacheing headers could help for SSL
[12:34] <SteveA>  - having that same option apply to graphics from the librarian, and making librarian files cached
[12:35] <SteveA> that's all
[12:35] <SteveA> so, who will write this spec?
[12:35] <SteveA> kiko: the issues are orthogonal.
[12:35] <SteveA> kiko: depends on browser implementation
[12:35] <kiko> SteveA, really? with or without cacheing headers I don't see firefox (60%+ of LP traffic) cache images over SSL.
[12:35] <SteveA> ok, no volunteers.  I'll write the spec.
[12:36] <SteveA> kiko: see -- a browser implementation
[12:36] <Ng> don't most browsers generally not cache anything https?
[12:36] <kiko> SteveA, a very significant browser implementation.
[12:36] <kiko> Ng, yes, but SteveA's trying to throw water at the sun
[12:36] <SteveA> kiko: your point is?
[12:36] <kiko> that it's useless to do that.
[12:36] <SteveA> I disagree.  Read what I wrote above.
[12:36] <jamesh> mpt: I added a comment to bug 65800 about an easy way to do instance-specific CSS in launchpad.css
[12:36] <kiko> the work to put proper cacheing headers is not worth the lack of effect it will have in practice.
[12:36] <SteveA> Ok, I will write this spec, then it'll be open for any other comments
[12:36] <kiko> SteveA, I have.
[12:36] <SteveA> kiko: it is, see above
[12:37] <SteveA> kiko: we'll offer the ability to have images over HTTP
[12:37] <SteveA> per-user
[12:37] <kiko> SteveA, that doesn't require cacheing headers to get cached
[12:37] <kiko> it simply works 
[12:37] <jamesh> kiko: the question is: does firefox never cache images retrieved over SSL, or does it just not cache the images we send it.
[12:37] <cprov> mpt: ping
[12:37] <SteveA> depends where you want to cache it!
[12:37] <SteveA> kiko: I don't know why we're discussing this.  We both know how http and cacheing work.
[12:37] <kiko> jamesh, the former
[12:38] <mpt> So Safari users will get faster Launchpad, yay :-P
[12:38] <kiko> SteveA, is that your Tuesday fuse which is burning rather short? I'm making conversation
[12:38] <SteveA> please save further discussion until we have the spec
[12:39] <SteveA> I'd rather we focused on conversing about other problems.  I think that would be more productive, as we have a way forward on thsi now.
[12:39] <kiko> bah
[12:40] <mpt> cprov, I'm getting a test failure in soyuz-upload.txt, line 583, the only difference being a "Section: net" line that the test doesn't expect between the "Version: 1.08-1" line and the "Maintainer: Alain Schroeder" line
[12:40] <mpt> Do you know why this would be? I haven't made any changes to soyuz mechanics
[12:40] <kiko> hmmm
[12:41] <mpt> Thank you jamesh
[12:41] <cprov> mpt: it's fine, it fails locally but works on PQM, which is still running an old APT version
[12:42] <mpt> cprov, ahhhh. Is there an RT request to update the apt that PQM uses?
[12:42] <mpt> Or would that not make sense unless the PQM server was running Edgy?
[12:43] <cprov> mpt: simple Edgy upgrade would fix it.
[12:43] <jamesh> mpt: PQM is running the same version of Ubuntu as our production machines
[12:44] <jamesh> cprov: it'd be nice if the test passed on both dapper and edgy though :)
[12:44] <cprov> jamesh: I'm not sure if they can upgrade APT in dapper
[12:44] <salgado> hey jamesh. BjornT was going to review my image-widget branch but he didn't have time to. I think you'd be the best person to review it. would you do that for me?
[12:45] <BjornT> mpt: i'm somewhat around now
[12:45] <jamesh> cprov: what I mean is make the test a bit more forgiving so that it passes with both versions
[12:45] <jamesh> if that's possible
[12:46] <mpt> BjornT, I have many many pagetests that are failing because I introduced a custom Distribution Bugs page, and I don't know how to hook up the search form to it (when I embed it as is done for bugtarget, I get a TraversalError)
[12:47] <mpt> If you're not available to wade into that, I will completely understand :-)
[12:47] <cprov> jamesh: maybe ... but it's only an uncomfortable issue, not a blocker.
[12:50] <BjornT> mpt: i'm not available to wade into that, no. but maybe there's something simple that's wrong. for example, the search macros requires some method on the view class, so make sure that you use a similar view class as is used for the existing search page.
[12:50] <kiko> cprov, why not ellipsize the section there?
[12:50] <mpt> Ok, I'll have another poke at it, and otherwise mail launchpad@
[12:51] <mpt> thanks BjornT 
[12:51] <kiko> mpt, just ellipsize the test failure in soyuz, we've determined it's okay
[12:51] <mpt> kiko, can 0 characters match an ellipsis?
[12:51] <kiko> mpt, yeah, I believe so
[12:51] <mpt> ok.
[12:51] <kiko> mpt, as for the search form, that sounds like too much work
[12:51] <cprov> kiko: let me check if the ellipis will work for that
[12:52] <cprov> s\ellipis\ellipsis
[12:53] <mpt> jamesh, do you happen to know the code for embedding the instance?
[12:56] <jamesh> mpt: I don't think we've got a way to get the instance name
[12:56] <jamesh> mpt: the way I'd do it is (a) add a new key for "instance name" in lib/canonical/config/schema.xml
[12:56] <kiko> mpt, can the images over HTTP warning be disabled?
[12:56] <jamesh> (b) set the instance name in the various configs
[12:57] <jamesh> (c) in the page template, use the following:
[12:57] <jamesh> tal:define="config modules/canonical/config/config" tal:attributes="id config/launchpad/instance_name"
[12:57] <cprov> mpt: ellipsis works, can you add it with an XXX or should I ?
[12:57] <jamesh> (adjust for whatever config key name you end up using)
[12:58] <mpt> cprov, if it's nagging people on mainline too, perhaps you should do it, rather than it being 1.0-specific
[12:58] <mpt> kiko, yes, there's a checkbox in the "Advanced" tab of the Internet Options control panel
[12:58] <cprov> mpt: right, I will do
[12:59] <mpt> kiko, if you mean "by a server", I'm ~80% sure the answer's no
[12:59] <kiko> mpt, okay. that's not so bad I guess
[12:59] <mpt> uh
[01:00] <mpt> That "Advanced" tab is a *scrolling* hierarchical list of checkboxes ;-)
[01:00] <jamesh> salgado: I'll take a look at your branch.  Can you add it to my queue?
[01:00] <salgado> jamesh, sure. thanks a lot!
[01:00] <kiko> mpt, well... 
[01:02] <mpt> oh, I'm sorry, I misremembered it
[01:02] <mpt> it's not in the Options dialog, it's in a secondary dialog opened from the Options dialog
[01:04] <mpt> http://www.racelm.com/rlm/cfmturbo/activexsettings.jpg
[01:05] <kiko> mpt, my point is more that it at least has /a/ workaround
[01:07] <mpt> kiko, yes, but it is perhaps an ugly price to pay for a bit better performance
[01:07] <kiko> it's significantly better over higher-latency links such as mine and yours
[01:07] <mpt> Perhaps another option, and I don't know how feasible this is, is to choose HTTP vs. HTTPS based on the browser
[01:07] <kiko> mpt, WDYM?
[01:08] <mpt> so HTTP for browsers that don't complain about it, HTTPS for browsers that do
[01:08] <kiko> mpt, it also causes warnings for firefox, btw. just lesser warnings
[01:08] <kiko> we could do that
[01:08] <kiko> but I think SteveA's suggestion of using options is better
[01:09] <mpt> ( ) Secure  (*) Fast
[01:10] <kiko> ( ) Pedantic (*) Fast
[01:11] <jamesh> kiko: btw, it seems there is a browser.cache.disk_cache_ssl config item in Firefox.  I am not sure if turning that on causes all SSL content to go to disk cache or just content explicitly marked as public
[01:11] <kiko> let me experiment
[01:13] <mpt> http://www.htaccesselite.com/htaccess/fix-for-warning-page-contains-secure-and-nonsecure-items-vt129.html
[01:14] <mpt> Thanks for the hints jamesh, I'll try that when I wake up
[01:14] <kiko> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.cache.disk_cache_ssl
[01:15] <kiko> what a hack mpt 
[01:17] <mpt> Hey, at least I'm not suggesting that we ask people to rummage in their browser prefs :-)
[01:17] <kiko> hey, that pref works!
[01:18] <kiko> wow! it's amazing jamesh 
[01:18] <kiko> that pref is the future!
[01:20] <mpt> Maybe we can address this another way
[01:21] <mpt> Let granular things -- templates? view classes? -- specify whether they need to be dealt with using encryption
[01:21] <kiko> mpt, handing off auth from SSL to non-SSL is non-trivial apparently
[01:22] <mpt> e.g. a distribution index page doesn't need to be served over HTTPS
[01:22] <mpt> kiko, I've yet to see any non-non-trivial proposals :-)
[01:23] <kiko> changing my browser pref was trivial!
[01:23] <mpt> Yes, but now you're less safe on the rest of the Web
[01:24] <mpt> that we Launchpad hackers are all trustworthy folk is not the issue
[01:24] <kiko> Less Safe is my middle name
[01:26] <mpt> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=309368
[01:26] <kiko> yeah. darin's even in favor of changing it!
[01:26] <mpt> Interesting, I didn't know IE cached more HTTPS stuff than Firefox
[01:27] <kiko> (btw, the new standard of putting organization name next to name is interesting)
[01:27] <kiko> (in Bugzilla)
[01:27] <mpt> I didn't see anyone do that until after I suffixed my name with "(gone)"
[01:28] <mpt> but maybe that was a coincidence
[01:28] <mpt> ;-)
[01:28] <mpt> oh 
[01:29] <mpt> kiko, I was wrong, you're not less safe
[01:29] <kiko> well, only very remotely less safe
[01:29] <kiko> because SSL content is on disk now
[01:29] <mpt> I was confusing "always cache SSL stuff" with "don't warn about HTTP stuff in HTTPS pages"
[01:30] <mpt> the latter is more dangerous than the former
[01:30] <mpt> the latter is what IE lets you do
[01:30] <mpt> the former is what you just did
[01:30] <mpt> Apologies.
[01:30] <kiko> right
[01:30] <kiko> I get a broken padlock though
[01:31] <mpt> for reasons described in comments 5~7
[01:31] <kiko> yeah
[01:33] <mpt> We will soon be using fewer icons
[01:33] <mpt> but more of other kinds of image
[01:34] <mpt> and I should be in bed
[01:42] <kiko> SteveA, can I add a dependency on CookieClient?
[01:42] <kiko> err ClientCookie
[01:46] <stub> kiko: What does it give us you need?
[01:46] <kiko> stub, the ability to track and follow cookies in remote sites -- namely Mantis.
[01:46] <kiko> I really don't want to do that manually
[01:47] <stub> This module is now part of mechanize.  I don't intend to make further standalone releases of ClientCookie.
[01:47] <kiko> as the cookies change over versions
[01:47] <stub> (from the web site0
[01:47] <kiko> what's mechanize?
[01:47] <kiko> stub, it's in ubuntu fwiw
[01:47] <stub> I think mechanize is the test framework that went into Z3.
[01:47] <stub> It is used for test harnesses anyway.
[01:48] <stub> kiko: It is in sourcecode/zope/ClientCookie
[01:48] <kiko> stub, whew!
[01:48] <kiko> stub, how do I use it? :-)
[01:48] <stub> erm... sourcecode/zope/src/ClientCookie
[01:48] <matsubara> kiko, stub: testbrowser already depends on it. it's built upon mechanize, i think
[01:49] <kiko> ah
[01:49] <stub> kiko: probably just a case of adding the relevant symlink to the lib directory so the package can be imported.
[01:49] <kiko> yep
[01:49] <kiko> thanks stub 
[01:57] <SteveA> kiko: right, as stub says, we have it already
[01:57] <kiko> cool.
[01:58] <SteveA> static: hi
[01:58] <static> SteveA: hi
[01:59] <cprov> kiko: well, ellipsis doesn't work for replacing non-existent lines (soyuz-upload.txt), PQM just failed
[01:59] <kiko> mmmm.
[01:59] <kiko> that sucks.
[01:59] <kiko> cprov, did you get review on your fix for the url crash?
[02:00] <kiko> stub, can we roll that fix out todayish too?
[02:00] <cprov> kiko: not yet, can you do it for me ?
[02:00] <kiko> sure. where is it.
[02:00] <cprov> kiko: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/cprov/launchpad/soyuz-fixes/full-diff
[02:01] <cprov> kiko: thanks
[02:43] <Seveas> kiko, can you help me for a second?
[02:43] <kiko> SteveA, I can't even help myself. but I can try
[02:43] <Seveas> hehe
[02:44] <Seveas> I need ubugtus emailaddress changed but I forgot passwords and mailboxes aren't working
[02:45] <kiko> Seveas, so.. you can register a new email address for him and confirm it. would that work?
[02:45] <Seveas> so -- create new lp accounts and then merge the old one?
[02:46] <Seveas> (ubugtu has several accounts)
[02:46] <kiko> no
[02:46] <kiko> you can just register a new email address for him
[02:46] <kiko> oh, you don't have his password?
[02:46] <kiko> or do you not have the password to his inbox?
[02:46] <Seveas> his inbox isn't working (mailserver messup) and I don't have his LP password
[02:47] <kiko> hmmm.
[03:08] <kiko> matsubara, is there a bug filed for selecting whether the answer tracker is officially used for product X?
[03:09] <matsubara> kiko: don't think so. I'll look for it and if I don't find, I'll file a new one
[03:11] <kiko> matsubara, okay, when you do please let me know as it's blocking an email I need to send out
[03:20] <matsubara> kiko: bug 76434
[03:20] <matsubara> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-support-tracker/+bug/76434
[03:20] <matsubara> Ubugtu took the day off. :(
[03:22] <Seveas> bug 76434
[03:22] <Seveas> hmm, ah right, bugtracker disabled as well
[03:22] <Seveas> see aboe, mail f*up
[03:23] <Seveas> above*
[03:23] <Seveas> kiko, mail is fied already so nvm :)
[03:23] <Seveas> now to fix ubugtu
[03:23] <kiko> Seveas, whoa, cool. 
[03:23] <kiko> Seveas, request a new password before you forget
[03:23] <matsubara> Seveas: well I just filed that one. ubugtu probably haven't received it yet.
[03:24] <Seveas> matsubara, it's massively messed up :)
[03:24] <Seveas> and I disabled the bugtracker for now
[04:56] <cprov> ddaa: ping
[04:57] <ddaa> cprov got a call to pass
[04:57] <ddaa> ping you back after
[04:57] <cprov> ddaa: sure, thanks
[05:11] <kiko> BjornT, ping?
[05:13] <BjornT> kiko: pong
[05:14] <kiko> BjornT, is it that time?
[05:14] <BjornT> kiko: indeed it is
[05:15] <kiko> 4577?
[05:58] <matthewrevell> Does anyone have a few moments to help me articulate some of Blueprint's benefits/features?
[05:58] <ddaa> cprov: pong
[06:01] <matthewrevell> kiko: Do you have a few minutes?
[06:07] <cprov> ddaa: hi
[06:07] <cprov> ddaa: do you know why ISourcePackageRelease requires a 'branches' attribute ?
[06:08] <ddaa> hu...
[06:11] <ddaa> cprov: my guess is that it has something to do with hct
[06:12] <ddaa> I expect it is related to the "manifest" attribute.
[06:12] <cprov> ddaa: uhm, could be
[06:12] <ddaa> cprov: you could ask Keybuk or lifeless
[06:12] <cprov> ddaa: but it's not implemented ...
[06:12] <ddaa> they would know
[06:12] <ddaa> cprov: you mean hct? :)
[06:12] <cprov> ddaa: right, I will do. Thank you
[06:13] <cprov> ddaa: ehe, no, only the method itself (I don't dare to question about hct)
[06:13] <ddaa> note, it's probably some very old vestige
[06:14] <ddaa> like... something scott stuck in there eons ago
[06:14] <ddaa> for sure I've never been close to sourcepackagerelease myself
[06:15] <cprov> ddaa: ok, I think I will simply remove it from the interface for now
[06:15] <ddaa> +1
[06:16] <cprov> ddaa: ehe, thanks
[06:22] <kiko> matthewrevell, what's up?
[06:23] <matthewrevell> kiko: I was looking for some help in understanding Blueprints, for some content I'm writing. Carlos have given me a hand.
[06:23] <kiko> I saw that
[06:23] <kiko> do you have specific questions?
[06:25] <matthewrevell> kiko: I want to understand the main two or three benefits that Blueprints offer a project that is considering Launchpad.
[06:25] <kiko> matthewrevell, well, one benefit is just having something -- most projects have no way of tracking feature development at all
[06:26] <kiko> matthewrevell, that is the single most important benefit in blueprint today
[06:26] <matthewrevell> kiko: Right, so is this a situation where we need to explain why they need Blueprints, or will most people be familiar with the idea, even though they don't have a solution at present?
[06:26] <kiko> providing a tool where there isn't one in general
[06:26] <kiko> yes
[06:26] <matthewrevell> cool
[06:26] <kiko> that's the line you want to follow
[06:26] <matthewrevell> Thanks
[06:27] <kiko> most people will never have thought of using a tool like blueprint
[06:27] <kiko> so it's different from offering a bug tracker in that sense
[07:04] <carlos> see you!
[07:15] <salgado> cprov-out, are you using dogfood lately?
[07:19] <cprov-out> salgado: Znarl will fix the vhosts soon
[07:20] <cprov-out> salgado: well, it's not broken yet, IFAICS
[07:20] <salgado> cprov-out, I guess that means dogfood is not working right now? I was actually asking because I wanted to play with it
[07:21] <cprov-out> salgado: ehe, sorry, I've just mixed the ideas... dogfood still available but w/o proper vhosts setup
[07:21] <cprov-out> salgado: you can use it, if you don't need the vhosts
[07:22] <salgado> no, I need only the db. do you know how old is the data we have there, cprov-out?
[07:23] <cprov-out> salgado: I've upgraded it last week, so it should be ok
[07:23] <salgado> cool
[07:23] <cprov-out> salgado: contents are old, though (I'm upgraded the schema only)
[07:24] <cprov-out> salgado: call me if you have any problem, will be back in 2 hours or so
[07:24] <salgado> sure thing. thanks cprov-out
[07:24] <cprov-out> salgado: np
[08:28] <BlueAidan_work> can someone explain how the launchpad karma system works, as well as how the "top contributors" are figured for a projecT?
[08:28] <BlueAidan_work> *project
[08:32] <kiko> BlueAidan_work, salgado can explain better than most, but ask me in a few minutes
[08:33] <BlueAidan_work> okay, I'll stick around
[08:34] <kiko> BlueAidan_work, some reading meanwhile: https://help.launchpad.net/KarmaCalculation
[08:35] <outime> brb
[08:57] <BlueAidan_work> thanks
[09:00] <BlueAidan_work> does it not track commits to a product's bzr tree at all?
[09:01] <salgado> BlueAidan_work, no, it doesn't do that yet
[09:01] <matsubara> BlueAidan_work: bug 56656
[09:02] <BlueAidan_work> ah
[09:31] <cprov> salgado: ping
[09:31] <salgado> cprov, pong
[09:32] <cprov> salgado: did dogfood work for you ?
[09:32] <salgado> well, I only need db access. I'm doing some sort of data mining
[09:32] <salgado> so yes, the db is working fine
[09:33] <cprov> salgado: ok, fine
[09:40] <salgado> matsubara, can you run https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileU6UOx1.html on staging for me?
[09:40] <matthewrevell> static: ping
[09:40] <matsubara> salgado: sure, just a sec
[09:40] <static> matthewrevell: hi!
[09:41] <matthewrevell> static: Hey :) Do you have time for a call this week to go over the docs we spoke to Steve G about yesterday?
[09:41] <static> matthewrevell: definitely. I've got some time now, or tomorrow afternoon
[09:42] <matthewrevell> static: Either way suits me. I just want to go over some very rough timescales and division of responsibilties
[09:44] <matsubara> salgado: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/file0uzkRC.html
[09:44] <salgado> thanks matsubara 
[09:45] <matsubara> np
[10:06] <hub> has the "link to external  bug tracker" disappeared?
[10:06] <hub> I click "affect upstream" and I can't select the bug tracker....
[10:06] <LarstiQ> should work methinks
[10:09] <hub> note that I'm not talking about pasting a complete URL but a bug#
[10:09] <hub> like it used to be
[10:09] <kiko> hub, we changed this to use always URLs
[10:09] <hub> how user unfriendly it is
[10:10] <kiko> that's a rather unfair comment
[10:10] <hub> that actually true
[10:11] <hub> before I just selected "AbiWord bug tracker" and then entered the 4 digit bug
[10:11] <hub> now I have to enter the whole bloody URL
[10:11] <kiko> not using URLs was difficult and constraining and worse, error-prone
[10:11] <kiko> but maybe we can find a way of making this less painful
[10:12] <kiko> hub, so hmm there may be an improvement possible
[10:12] <kiko> if we allowed specifying it as an alternative
[10:12] <kiko> mmmmm
[10:12] <kiko> mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[11:21] <thumper> should I be able to access beta.launchpad.net?
[11:36] <acid-rain> jenda, ping
[11:51] <jenda> acid-rain, pong?