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| bdmurray | hello? | 01:06 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | hello | 01:06 |
| bdmurray | Hi, I was reading over the documentation team repository instructions and I was curious about bug reports versus submitting svn patches to the mailing list. | 01:07 |
| mdke | bdmurray: what in particular is your query? | 01:08 |
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| bdmurray | Are bug reports appropriate if you are submitting a patch yourself? If not when are bug reports appropriate? | 01:08 |
| mdke | you can submit a patch either on the mailing list or via bug report. If you just have a suggestion, or want to point out an error, a bug report is probably the best way | 01:09 |
| bdmurray | So, a bug report for suggestions w/o patches and mailing list for patches? | 01:11 |
| mdke | tbh, either for either | 01:11 |
| mdke | whichever you prefer | 01:11 |
| bdmurray | Thinking about it, it seems that trivial (typographical / grammatical) might be best via bug report. Those requiring discussion might be best submitted to the mailing list. | 01:12 |
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| mdke | bdmurray: that's fine. Any contribution is most welcome | 01:14 |
| bdmurray | okay, thanks | 01:15 |
| mdke | bdmurray: anything specifically you're interested in working on? | 01:15 |
| bdmurray | mdke: I've been using Ubuntu for a while now but thought I'd read through the documentation. ;) I wanted to help with things as I notice them. | 01:18 |
| mdke | that would be great | 01:19 |
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| bdmurray | mdke: do you have a minute? | 01:37 |
| mdke | bdmurray: yes | 01:37 |
| bdmurray | I was looking at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/linux-basics.html and noticed that some of the sentences are active and some are passive. | 01:38 |
| bdmurray | "Starting the Terminal" vs "Switch to Console mode" | 01:38 |
| bdmurray | Then looking through the svn repository those phrases appear a lot | 01:38 |
| mdke | those are both active, afaik, but I think I see your point | 01:39 |
| bdmurray | maybe I don't have the right term then. but some end in "ing" and some don't. | 01:39 |
| mdke | yeah | 01:40 |
| bdmurray | What would be the best way to approach that? | 01:41 |
| mdke | well, a discussion on the mailing list. I don't recall if our style guide deals with that | 01:41 |
| mdke | "Starting the Terminal" sounds appropriate for titles to me, while "Switch to..." sounds like an instruction | 01:42 |
| bdmurray | I think that using "Starting" and "Switching" are appropriate because if you read that section that is what you will be doing. | 01:44 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| crimsun_ | mdke: hi | 02:00 |
| mdke | ah yay | 02:00 |
| crimsun_ | (I'm in a meeting; my responses are lagged) | 02:00 |
| mdke | crimsun_: flash, is it broken in feisty or is the method for installing it going to change? (lagged responses gratefully accepted) | 02:01 |
| crimsun_ | it's not known-broken; do you have a case where it fails? | 02:01 |
| mdke | it's not working on my system | 02:02 |
| crimsun_ | where does it barf? | 02:02 |
| mdke | it is installed, but doesn't seem to work. And I can't find the update-flashplugin command that used to be around | 02:02 |
| crimsun_ | update-flashplugin is obsolete; we killed it when we migrated to the betas of 9 | 02:03 |
| mdke | ok, that explains that | 02:03 |
| mdke | mental note to nuke that from the docs | 02:03 |
| mdke | so simply installing it should work? | 02:03 |
| crimsun_ | yes | 02:04 |
| crimsun_ | ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree* >/dev/null 2>&1 ; echo $? | 02:04 |
| mdke | 0 | 02:04 |
| crimsun_ | ok good | 02:04 |
| mdke | i saw some posts about removing the package and reinstalling it, I haven't tried that yet | 02:04 |
| crimsun_ | which Web browser(s) are you testing against? | 02:05 |
| mdke | firefox/epiphany | 02:05 |
| crimsun_ | ls -l /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins/*flash* | 02:05 |
| mdke | nothing | 02:05 |
| crimsun_ | ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree | 02:06 |
| crimsun_ | also, do you use a network proxy? | 02:06 |
| mdke | whoa | 02:06 |
| mdke | matt@kalliope:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree | 02:06 |
| mdke | total 0 | 02:06 |
| mdke | never seen "total 0" before | 02:06 |
| crimsun_ | ok, how about ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree-unpackdir | 02:06 |
| mdke | yes, that has wgetrc in it | 02:07 |
| mdke | and "total 4" | 02:07 |
| crimsun_ | but no FP9_plugin_beta_112006.tar.gz ? | 02:07 |
| mdke | correct | 02:07 |
| crimsun_ | what are the contents of wgetrc? | 02:08 |
| mdke | noclobber = off | 02:09 |
| mdke | dir_prefix = . | 02:09 |
| mdke | dirstruct = off | 02:09 |
| mdke | verbose = off | 02:09 |
| crimsun_ | ok, so let's rehash: you -do- use a proxy? | 02:09 |
| mdke | no | 02:09 |
| mdke | at least not knowingly | 02:10 |
| crimsun_ | ok, please --purge flashplugin-nonfree, then reinstall it | 02:10 |
| mdke | if that solves the problem, is it going to lose debugging material? | 02:10 |
| crimsun_ | no | 02:11 |
| crimsun_ | it'll be the same problem that has existed since 7.0.63 | 02:11 |
| crimsun_ | there's nothing we can really do about flaky upstream proxies and the like | 02:11 |
| crimsun_ | I can merge a newer Debian unstable source package, but it won't help this issue at all | 02:11 |
| mdke | upstream proxies? | 02:12 |
| crimsun_ | if your isp does funky things | 02:13 |
| crimsun_ | (back to your 'knowingly' comment) | 02:13 |
| mdke | yeah | 02:13 |
| mdke | or potentially I was disconnected during the upgrade? | 02:13 |
| crimsun_ | that could be it, too | 02:14 |
| crimsun_ | postinst no longer bails if the package fails to download, because it could prevent other packages from being configured | 02:14 |
| mdke | so there is no equivalent fallback command for redownloading afterwards, like with update-flashplugin? | 02:14 |
| crimsun_ | not a good solution, but it's arguably better than killing a dist-upgrade | 02:14 |
| crimsun_ | you can try dpkg-reconfigure flashplugin-nonfree | 02:15 |
| mdke | really this should all be done from firefox... how hard would that be? | 02:16 |
| crimsun_ | from within a browser window? | 02:16 |
| mdke | well, the window that appears when you try to view a flash page, and you click on the broken window | 02:16 |
| mdke | that should install the required package, or dpkg-reconfigure it, if installed already | 02:17 |
| mdke | (works now btw, thanks) | 02:17 |
| crimsun_ | there's no reliable way to hook into that. | 02:17 |
| mdke | crimsun_: they are doing it with totem, aren't they? | 02:17 |
| crimsun_ | Bart and I spent quite a while debugging, and it breaks on too many cases. | 02:17 |
| mdke | ah, ok: if you've looked at it already | 02:17 |
| crimsun_ | mdke: with the plugins? No idea; totem is not used here. | 02:17 |
| mdke | there is some plan to install codecs as required by files the user is trying to play, I think | 02:18 |
| crimsun_ | is that a Ubuntu spec or in the upstream code? | 02:18 |
| mdke | Ubuntu spec, but the fact you're not aware of it is making me nervous | 02:18 |
| crimsun_ | it shouldn't make you nervous; I've had no time to keep up with Ubuntu things in the past month :/ | 02:19 |
| mdke | it has been quite a prominent spec over the last 6 months though | 02:19 |
| mdke | what was it called... | 02:19 |
| crimsun_ | the education one? | 02:19 |
| crimsun_ | easy-codec-installation | 02:20 |
| mdke | that's it | 02:21 |
| mdke | I was only able to find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/CommonInstallHook | 02:21 |
| crimsun_ | lp/distros/ubuntu/+specs | 02:22 |
| mdke | so, you think a hook into firefox would be out of the question? | 02:23 |
| mdke | if you think it might be a long term option, I'll file a bug or something | 02:23 |
| crimsun_ | I'll have to look at libgimme-codec | 02:24 |
| mdke | that's clearly grounds for me to file a bug | 02:24 |
| crimsun_ | if it does what I think it does, it won't help at all | 02:24 |
| mdke | gah | 02:24 |
| crimsun_ | it seems to be a wrapper to g-a-i, which will just pull down a package, which will pull down flashplugin-nonfree | 02:25 |
| crimsun_ | so what can be automated is the fetching of the package, yes, but it won't at all resolve the issue you encountered | 02:25 |
| mdke | which won't help? | 02:25 |
| mdke | well, it fixes another issue. What about dpkg-reconfigure if the package is already installed? | 02:26 |
| crimsun_ | may resolve one corner case | 02:26 |
| crimsun_ | feel free to file a bug, but someone else will have to action it | 02:27 |
| mdke | it's already filed | 02:28 |
| mdke | bug 36544 | 02:28 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 36544 in epiphany-browser "We should suggest to install the proper package is a plugin is missing" [Wishlist,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/36544 | 02:28 |
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| crimsun_ | I'm not at all happy with it. | 02:29 |
| mdke | with the bug? | 02:29 |
| crimsun_ | in ff's case, we're simply reimplementing what firefox already does | 02:29 |
| mdke | does firefox actually do it successfully? | 02:30 |
| crimsun_ | people report that it does. | 02:30 |
| crimsun_ | several folks in #edubuntu, actually. I was shocked. | 02:30 |
| mdke | oh, I thought it didn't. | 02:30 |
| mdke | anyway, feel free to adjust the bug report if you disagree | 02:30 |
| crimsun_ | it's a valid bug report imo | 02:31 |
| crimsun_ | I'm just not happy with it :) | 02:31 |
| mdke | aha | 02:31 |
| mdke | i have to sleep, thanks again for your help | 02:31 |
| crimsun_ | np | 02:31 |
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| nixternal | mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDesktopGuide/Structure#head-703356a6365ef19b1be181925b7e8556d8f6f1bc | 08:50 |
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| mdke | nixternal: I'm not sure, I think more categories would work better. A user can't really tell what is going to be in a section called "KDE Games". The ubuntu version uses one game per section | 09:28 |
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| mpt | Are the status="complete", status="review" etc attributes still in use? | 12:46 |
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| matthewrevell | Morning all | 12:54 |
| matthewrevell | In case you don't know me, I work for Canonical as part of the Launchpad team. | 12:55 |
| matthewrevell | I'm interested to see if I can help you chaps with documentation for Ubuntu users that explains where Launchpad fits in | 12:56 |
| matthewrevell | and how to use it. | 12:56 |
| matthewrevell | mdke: Perhaps you might be able to help me with that? | 12:56 |
| rob | that sounds pretty useful actually | 12:58 |
| matthewrevell | cool :) | 01:01 |
| matthewrevell | From what I can see, a thorough explanation of how Launchpad fits into the Ubuntu world is missing, at the moment. | 01:02 |
| matthewrevell | I'd like to work as part of the ubuntu-docs team to help provide that. | 01:02 |
| mpt | ugh | 01:58 |
| === mpt runs into a mess with svn | ||
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| mpt | "Nuke it from orbit and checkout again. It's the only way to be sure." | 01:59 |
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| Ubugtu | New bug: #76527 in ubuntu-doc "Abrreviation change at about-ubuntu.xml" [Undecided,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76527 | 02:25 |
| Ubugtu | New bug: #76326 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Konqueror should be able to parse .lnk files" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76326 | 03:05 |
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| willvdl | is there a discussion anywhere I can read on the policy around translating wiki pages? | 03:34 |
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| willvdl | hey folks, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFaq is an Italian translation of the Edubuntu FAQ. | 03:46 |
| willvdl | Is it really in the right place? | 03:46 |
| newz2000 | willvdl: just looked at the moin docs, it seems many people wish there was a way to have multiple translations of the same page automatically built in, which implies that the capability isn't there yet. | 03:54 |
| newz2000 | i.e. nothing like the content negotiation we use for help.ubuntu.com | 03:55 |
| willvdl | content negotiation? | 03:55 |
| newz2000 | suggested workarounds were to simply link to the translated pages | 03:55 |
| newz2000 | yeah, that means the webserver automoatically knows what languages you can read and sends you the version you want. | 03:56 |
| willvdl | eg h.u.c/pagename/es ? | 03:56 |
| willvdl | of course ja | 03:56 |
| newz2000 | kind of | 03:56 |
| willvdl | hmmm. will think on this. thanks | 03:56 |
| newz2000 | if you ask for index.html and you speak hu then it will look for index.html.hu and give you that if it exists | 03:56 |
| newz2000 | moin doesn't have that. Instead, you would want to link to EdubuntuFaq/IT or EdubuntuFaq/EN or whatever. | 03:57 |
| newz2000 | Maybe the docteam knows a better way | 03:57 |
| willvdl | I see some of the LoCo teams are doing parallel translations: e.g. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ItalianRedirect | 03:58 |
| willvdl | must be a tonne of work | 03:58 |
| newz2000 | yeah, that's cool though. | 03:59 |
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| newz2000 | that's one of the charters of the loco teams | 03:59 |
| newz2000 | (maintaining localized help) | 04:00 |
| newz2000 | willvdl: see the source of that page? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ItalianRedirect?action=raw | 04:01 |
| === willvdl looks | ||
| newz2000 | Notice that they used the 'language' feature to specify translated portions of that page | 04:01 |
| newz2000 | {it} ... {en}... | 04:01 |
| willvdl | aha | 04:01 |
| willvdl | how does that help I wonder | 04:01 |
| newz2000 | I think it would only help on small pages like this | 04:02 |
| newz2000 | I love your little mouse for community. He's cool. | 04:02 |
| willvdl | yeah. we like mice | 04:03 |
| willvdl | thanks newz2000, gotto run to town | 04:03 |
| newz2000 | ok, ping anytime. :) | 04:03 |
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| nixternal | well well well if it isn't my old chap matthewrevell :) | 04:18 |
| nixternal | what's up? | 04:18 |
| newz2000 | my goodness the UWN again was totally packed with awesome information | 04:50 |
| nixternal | awesome "old" information :( | 04:50 |
| newz2000 | only old if you know everything... most of it was new to me. :) | 04:50 |
| nixternal | true | 04:50 |
| nixternal | hey, get to hacking mailman, and make a "add all to:" and a "ban all" selection | 04:51 |
| nixternal | ;) | 04:51 |
| nixternal | that would be easier than going through 100 spam emails collected in the mailman traps | 04:51 |
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| newz2000 | I did some mailman hacking this week as a matter of fact... | 04:51 |
| nixternal | and the spamassassin on the mailman server is subpar | 04:51 |
| newz2000 | I added js links that check "reject" for all the pending messages. | 04:52 |
| nixternal | probably nees a sa-update if it isn't in cron | 04:52 |
| nixternal | if you reject, doesn't the email sender get a notice about it being rejected? | 04:52 |
| newz2000 | oh, right. I added it to the other option, where it drops the message. | 04:53 |
| nixternal | discard | 04:53 |
| newz2000 | but on my personal mailman, not the ubuntu/canonical mailman | 04:53 |
| newz2000 | yeah, that's it | 04:53 |
| nixternal | but there is a button at the top that will auto discard everything marked defer already | 04:53 |
| nixternal | ahhh | 04:53 |
| nixternal | ok | 04:53 |
| newz2000 | not on the version I use. | 04:53 |
| nixternal | orly | 04:53 |
| newz2000 | I'm still running redhat 7.2 on that beast. | 04:53 |
| === newz2000 hides | ||
| nixternal | haha | 04:54 |
| nixternal | thats still a good server, rocking that 2.2 kernel quite hard, unless you have upgraded to at least 2.4 :) | 04:54 |
| newz2000 | I think that is up to 2.4 | 04:54 |
| newz2000 | I think 7.1 had 2.2 | 04:54 |
| nixternal | ya, you are right | 04:54 |
| newz2000 | I've mostly upgraded it to 7.3 via fedora legacy. Next month I'm getting a new server though, so it will have dapper server on it. | 04:55 |
| newz2000 | a friend is letting me put it in his rack and is only charging $10/mo | 04:56 |
| nixternal | i am running a sarge server here, and an edgy server | 04:56 |
| nixternal | im moving all of the sarge stuff over to the edgy server eventually | 04:56 |
| newz2000 | I'm thinking about using edgy... | 04:57 |
| nixternal | it is definitely stable | 04:57 |
| newz2000 | I don't like messing with remote server upgrades though, so I'm a little hesitant | 04:57 |
| nixternal | it was up for 2 months before my dog unplugged the power to it | 04:57 |
| matthewrevell | nixternal: Howdy :) | 04:58 |
| nixternal | yo yo homey :) | 04:58 |
| nixternal | how is work? life? and I know how LUGRadio is rockin' :) | 04:59 |
| matthewrevell | nixternal: Both work and life are busy, but good :) | 05:01 |
| matthewrevell | nixternal: you? | 05:02 |
| nixternal | good to hear | 05:02 |
| nixternal | same pretty much, finish up this semester tonight with my last final, then i am clear for about a month | 05:02 |
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| nixternal | just took a marketing/business management consultancy job with the Chicago Cubs as well | 05:02 |
| matthewrevell | nixternal: Cool :) | 05:02 |
| nixternal | probably about a 6 to 8 month contract | 05:02 |
| matthewrevell | nice | 05:02 |
| nixternal | ya, i hope there is plenty of free tickets to the games though :) | 05:03 |
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| Lutin | Burgwork: are you around ? | 07:37 |
| Burgwork | Lutin: busy | 07:37 |
| Lutin | Burgwork: ok | 07:38 |
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| bronson | LaserJock: here now. Sorry about that. | 09:14 |
| LaserJock | no problem | 09:14 |
| LaserJock | it looks pretty good | 09:15 |
| bronson | Thanks. It's a little disorganized because it's been growing badly... | 09:16 |
| LaserJock | I'm the maintainer of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide | 09:16 |
| === bronson looks it up | ||
| LaserJock | and generally do a fair amount of the packaging doc work around MOTU | 09:16 |
| bronson | Ah, good. | 09:17 |
| LaserJock | some of the "how to package" type stuff should probably go into the packaging guide | 09:17 |
| bronson | I saw that guide earlier. It's got a lot of information that isn't in my pages and vice versa. | 09:17 |
| LaserJock | the repo stuff is also very nice | 09:17 |
| bronson | Definitely. | 09:17 |
| LaserJock | I wonder if it would also be a good addition to the packaging guide | 09:18 |
| bronson | Is there an all-on-one-page verison of the packaging guide? | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | I don't think so | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | there is a PDF | 09:18 |
| bronson | Drat. Little hard to search. :) | 09:18 |
| bronson | That'll do. | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | it'd on help.ubuntu.com | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | you don't happen to know docbook XML do you? | 09:19 |
| bronson | I do. | 09:19 |
| bronson | Or did. :) | 09:19 |
| bronson | Haven't used it in years. | 09:19 |
| LaserJock | well, I write the packaging guide in docbook and it's in the doc team svn repo | 09:20 |
| LaserJock | you are more than welcome to work on it and incorporate your material | 09:20 |
| LaserJock | some of the stuff (particularly the repo material) should also be on the wiki | 09:20 |
| bronson | Mostly what I wrote about is how to maintain an apt-gettable repository. | 09:22 |
| bronson | The packaging guide doesn't appear to cover that at all... is that intentional? | 09:22 |
| LaserJock | not really | 09:22 |
| LaserJock | I hadn't really thought of it before because I don't maintian a repo myself | 09:22 |
| LaserJock | but it might be a nice addition | 09:23 |
| bronson | I find repos are really handy in many-computer maintenance situations. For instance, keeping a school's computer lab up to date. | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | exactly | 09:23 |
| willvdl | I'd love to see that. Would be very valuable | 09:25 |
| bronson | OK, I'll see what I can do. | 09:26 |
| bronson | I won't worry about package building much since it looks like you've got that covered. | 09:26 |
| LaserJock | the info on the doc team svn repo is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository | 09:26 |
| LaserJock | the packaging guide is in the generic/ directory | 09:27 |
| LaserJock | I'm kinda busy right at the moment but if you have any questions my email is mantha AT ubuntu.com | 09:27 |
| bronson | will do. | 09:28 |
| Ubugtu | New bug: #76647 in ubuntu-doc "Searching via apt not covered in Command-Line Package Management" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76647 | 10:00 |
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