=== jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robotgee1 [n=robotgee@c-71-207-194-207.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@pool-72-64-197-83.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robotgeek [n=robotgee@ubuntu/member/robotgeek] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-219.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bdmurray [n=theman@c-24-21-235-175.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:06] hello? [01:06] hello [01:07] Hi, I was reading over the documentation team repository instructions and I was curious about bug reports versus submitting svn patches to the mailing list. [01:08] bdmurray: what in particular is your query? === poningru [n=poningru@pool-72-64-211-193.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:08] Are bug reports appropriate if you are submitting a patch yourself? If not when are bug reports appropriate? [01:09] you can submit a patch either on the mailing list or via bug report. If you just have a suggestion, or want to point out an error, a bug report is probably the best way [01:11] So, a bug report for suggestions w/o patches and mailing list for patches? [01:11] tbh, either for either [01:11] whichever you prefer [01:12] Thinking about it, it seems that trivial (typographical / grammatical) might be best via bug report. Those requiring discussion might be best submitted to the mailing list. === xipietotec [n=jackfros@cpe-67-49-227-24.dc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:14] bdmurray: that's fine. Any contribution is most welcome [01:15] okay, thanks [01:15] bdmurray: anything specifically you're interested in working on? [01:18] mdke: I've been using Ubuntu for a while now but thought I'd read through the documentation. ;) I wanted to help with things as I notice them. [01:19] that would be great === mr_pouit_ [n=silk@LAubervilliers-151-12-125-187.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:37] mdke: do you have a minute? [01:37] bdmurray: yes [01:38] I was looking at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/linux-basics.html and noticed that some of the sentences are active and some are passive. [01:38] "Starting the Terminal" vs "Switch to Console mode" [01:38] Then looking through the svn repository those phrases appear a lot [01:39] those are both active, afaik, but I think I see your point [01:39] maybe I don't have the right term then. but some end in "ing" and some don't. [01:40] yeah [01:41] What would be the best way to approach that? [01:41] well, a discussion on the mailing list. I don't recall if our style guide deals with that [01:42] "Starting the Terminal" sounds appropriate for titles to me, while "Switch to..." sounds like an instruction [01:44] I think that using "Starting" and "Switching" are appropriate because if you read that section that is what you will be doing. === mdke nods [02:00] mdke: hi [02:00] ah yay [02:00] (I'm in a meeting; my responses are lagged) [02:01] crimsun_: flash, is it broken in feisty or is the method for installing it going to change? (lagged responses gratefully accepted) [02:01] it's not known-broken; do you have a case where it fails? [02:02] it's not working on my system [02:02] where does it barf? [02:02] it is installed, but doesn't seem to work. And I can't find the update-flashplugin command that used to be around [02:03] update-flashplugin is obsolete; we killed it when we migrated to the betas of 9 [02:03] ok, that explains that [02:03] mental note to nuke that from the docs [02:03] so simply installing it should work? [02:04] yes [02:04] ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree* >/dev/null 2>&1 ; echo $? [02:04] 0 [02:04] ok good [02:04] i saw some posts about removing the package and reinstalling it, I haven't tried that yet [02:05] which Web browser(s) are you testing against? [02:05] firefox/epiphany [02:05] ls -l /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins/*flash* [02:05] nothing [02:06] ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree [02:06] also, do you use a network proxy? [02:06] whoa [02:06] matt@kalliope:~$ ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree [02:06] total 0 [02:06] never seen "total 0" before [02:06] ok, how about ls -l /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree-unpackdir [02:07] yes, that has wgetrc in it [02:07] and "total 4" [02:07] but no FP9_plugin_beta_112006.tar.gz ? [02:07] correct [02:08] what are the contents of wgetrc? [02:09] noclobber = off [02:09] dir_prefix = . [02:09] dirstruct = off [02:09] verbose = off [02:09] ok, so let's rehash: you -do- use a proxy? [02:09] no [02:10] at least not knowingly [02:10] ok, please --purge flashplugin-nonfree, then reinstall it [02:10] if that solves the problem, is it going to lose debugging material? [02:11] no [02:11] it'll be the same problem that has existed since 7.0.63 [02:11] there's nothing we can really do about flaky upstream proxies and the like [02:11] I can merge a newer Debian unstable source package, but it won't help this issue at all [02:12] upstream proxies? [02:13] if your isp does funky things [02:13] (back to your 'knowingly' comment) [02:13] yeah [02:13] or potentially I was disconnected during the upgrade? [02:14] that could be it, too [02:14] postinst no longer bails if the package fails to download, because it could prevent other packages from being configured [02:14] so there is no equivalent fallback command for redownloading afterwards, like with update-flashplugin? [02:14] not a good solution, but it's arguably better than killing a dist-upgrade [02:15] you can try dpkg-reconfigure flashplugin-nonfree [02:16] really this should all be done from firefox... how hard would that be? [02:16] from within a browser window? [02:16] well, the window that appears when you try to view a flash page, and you click on the broken window [02:17] that should install the required package, or dpkg-reconfigure it, if installed already [02:17] (works now btw, thanks) [02:17] there's no reliable way to hook into that. [02:17] crimsun_: they are doing it with totem, aren't they? [02:17] Bart and I spent quite a while debugging, and it breaks on too many cases. [02:17] ah, ok: if you've looked at it already [02:17] mdke: with the plugins? No idea; totem is not used here. [02:18] there is some plan to install codecs as required by files the user is trying to play, I think [02:18] is that a Ubuntu spec or in the upstream code? [02:18] Ubuntu spec, but the fact you're not aware of it is making me nervous [02:19] it shouldn't make you nervous; I've had no time to keep up with Ubuntu things in the past month :/ [02:19] it has been quite a prominent spec over the last 6 months though [02:19] what was it called... [02:19] the education one? [02:20] easy-codec-installation [02:21] that's it [02:21] I was only able to find https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/CommonInstallHook [02:22] lp/distros/ubuntu/+specs [02:23] so, you think a hook into firefox would be out of the question? [02:23] if you think it might be a long term option, I'll file a bug or something [02:24] I'll have to look at libgimme-codec [02:24] that's clearly grounds for me to file a bug [02:24] if it does what I think it does, it won't help at all [02:24] gah [02:25] it seems to be a wrapper to g-a-i, which will just pull down a package, which will pull down flashplugin-nonfree [02:25] so what can be automated is the fetching of the package, yes, but it won't at all resolve the issue you encountered [02:25] which won't help? [02:26] well, it fixes another issue. What about dpkg-reconfigure if the package is already installed? [02:26] may resolve one corner case [02:27] feel free to file a bug, but someone else will have to action it [02:28] it's already filed [02:28] bug 36544 [02:28] Malone bug 36544 in epiphany-browser "We should suggest to install the proper package is a plugin is missing" [Wishlist,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/36544 === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@c-65-96-188-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:29] I'm not at all happy with it. [02:29] with the bug? [02:29] in ff's case, we're simply reimplementing what firefox already does [02:30] does firefox actually do it successfully? [02:30] people report that it does. [02:30] several folks in #edubuntu, actually. I was shocked. [02:30] oh, I thought it didn't. [02:30] anyway, feel free to adjust the bug report if you disagree [02:31] it's a valid bug report imo [02:31] I'm just not happy with it :) [02:31] aha [02:31] i have to sleep, thanks again for your help [02:31] np === ryanakca [n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robotgeek [n=robotgee@c-71-207-194-207.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.119.104] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@202.183.119.104] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia_ [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc === xipietotec [n=jackfros@cpe-67-49-227-24.dc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [n=froud@dsl-242-129-240.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === SiberianFox272 [n=Siberian@user-0can29b.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-251-119-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WikiMan [n=MatthewV@202.183.119.60] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === xipietotec [n=jackfros@194.115.109.66.static.dis.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:50] mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuDesktopGuide/Structure#head-703356a6365ef19b1be181925b7e8556d8f6f1bc === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.14] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:28] nixternal: I'm not sure, I think more categories would work better. A user can't really tell what is going to be in a section called "KDE Games". The ubuntu version uses one game per section === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-219.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.14] has joined #ubuntu-doc === joachim-n [n=joachim@ACCFE8F7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:46] Are the status="complete", status="review" etc attributes still in use? === matthewrevell [n=matthew@82-47-116-59.cable.ubr05.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:54] Morning all [12:55] In case you don't know me, I work for Canonical as part of the Launchpad team. [12:56] I'm interested to see if I can help you chaps with documentation for Ubuntu users that explains where Launchpad fits in [12:56] and how to use it. [12:56] mdke: Perhaps you might be able to help me with that? [12:58] that sounds pretty useful actually [01:01] cool :) [01:02] From what I can see, a thorough explanation of how Launchpad fits into the Ubuntu world is missing, at the moment. [01:02] I'd like to work as part of the ubuntu-docs team to help provide that. [01:58] ugh === mpt runs into a mess with svn === willvdl [n=will@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:59] "Nuke it from orbit and checkout again. It's the only way to be sure." === rob [i=RobertSt@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:25] New bug: #76527 in ubuntu-doc "Abrreviation change at about-ubuntu.xml" [Undecided,Fix committed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76527 [03:05] New bug: #76326 in kubuntu-docs (main) "Konqueror should be able to parse .lnk files" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76326 === motin_ [n=motin@c80-217-109-98.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:34] is there a discussion anywhere I can read on the policy around translating wiki pages? === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:46] hey folks, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuFaq is an Italian translation of the Edubuntu FAQ. [03:46] Is it really in the right place? [03:54] willvdl: just looked at the moin docs, it seems many people wish there was a way to have multiple translations of the same page automatically built in, which implies that the capability isn't there yet. [03:55] i.e. nothing like the content negotiation we use for help.ubuntu.com [03:55] content negotiation? [03:55] suggested workarounds were to simply link to the translated pages [03:56] yeah, that means the webserver automoatically knows what languages you can read and sends you the version you want. [03:56] eg h.u.c/pagename/es ? [03:56] of course ja [03:56] kind of [03:56] hmmm. will think on this. thanks [03:56] if you ask for index.html and you speak hu then it will look for index.html.hu and give you that if it exists [03:57] moin doesn't have that. Instead, you would want to link to EdubuntuFaq/IT or EdubuntuFaq/EN or whatever. [03:57] Maybe the docteam knows a better way [03:58] I see some of the LoCo teams are doing parallel translations: e.g. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ItalianRedirect [03:58] must be a tonne of work [03:59] yeah, that's cool though. === glatzor [n=sebi@host-82-135-29-2.customer.m-online.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:59] that's one of the charters of the loco teams [04:00] (maintaining localized help) [04:01] willvdl: see the source of that page? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ItalianRedirect?action=raw === willvdl looks [04:01] Notice that they used the 'language' feature to specify translated portions of that page [04:01] {it} ... {en}... [04:01] aha [04:01] how does that help I wonder [04:02] I think it would only help on small pages like this [04:02] I love your little mouse for community. He's cool. [04:03] yeah. we like mice [04:03] thanks newz2000, gotto run to town [04:03] ok, ping anytime. :) === dsas [n=dean@host81-158-221-171.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@196.36.161.235] has left #ubuntu-doc ["No] [04:18] well well well if it isn't my old chap matthewrevell :) [04:18] what's up? [04:50] my goodness the UWN again was totally packed with awesome information [04:50] awesome "old" information :( [04:50] only old if you know everything... most of it was new to me. :) [04:50] true [04:51] hey, get to hacking mailman, and make a "add all to:" and a "ban all" selection [04:51] ;) [04:51] that would be easier than going through 100 spam emails collected in the mailman traps === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:51] I did some mailman hacking this week as a matter of fact... [04:51] and the spamassassin on the mailman server is subpar [04:52] I added js links that check "reject" for all the pending messages. [04:52] probably nees a sa-update if it isn't in cron [04:52] if you reject, doesn't the email sender get a notice about it being rejected? [04:53] oh, right. I added it to the other option, where it drops the message. [04:53] discard [04:53] but on my personal mailman, not the ubuntu/canonical mailman [04:53] yeah, that's it [04:53] but there is a button at the top that will auto discard everything marked defer already [04:53] ahhh [04:53] ok [04:53] not on the version I use. [04:53] orly [04:53] I'm still running redhat 7.2 on that beast. === newz2000 hides [04:54] haha [04:54] thats still a good server, rocking that 2.2 kernel quite hard, unless you have upgraded to at least 2.4 :) [04:54] I think that is up to 2.4 [04:54] I think 7.1 had 2.2 [04:54] ya, you are right [04:55] I've mostly upgraded it to 7.3 via fedora legacy. Next month I'm getting a new server though, so it will have dapper server on it. [04:56] a friend is letting me put it in his rack and is only charging $10/mo [04:56] i am running a sarge server here, and an edgy server [04:56] im moving all of the sarge stuff over to the edgy server eventually [04:57] I'm thinking about using edgy... [04:57] it is definitely stable [04:57] I don't like messing with remote server upgrades though, so I'm a little hesitant [04:57] it was up for 2 months before my dog unplugged the power to it [04:58] nixternal: Howdy :) [04:58] yo yo homey :) [04:59] how is work? life? and I know how LUGRadio is rockin' :) [05:01] nixternal: Both work and life are busy, but good :) [05:02] nixternal: you? [05:02] good to hear [05:02] same pretty much, finish up this semester tonight with my last final, then i am clear for about a month === Lutin [n=Lutin@sd-4736.dedibox.fr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:02] just took a marketing/business management consultancy job with the Chicago Cubs as well [05:02] nixternal: Cool :) [05:02] probably about a 6 to 8 month contract [05:02] nice [05:03] ya, i hope there is plenty of free tickets to the games though :) === glatzor [n=sebi@host-82-135-29-2.customer.m-online.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === linuxphotogeek [n=will@fw-dcise.ascensionhealth.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyy [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:37] Burgwork: are you around ? [07:37] Lutin: busy [07:38] Burgwork: ok === mr_pouit [n=silk@LAubervilliers-151-12-73-187.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.14] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bronson [n=bronson@adsl-75-36-149-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:14] LaserJock: here now. Sorry about that. [09:14] no problem [09:15] it looks pretty good [09:16] Thanks. It's a little disorganized because it's been growing badly... [09:16] I'm the maintainer of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide === bronson looks it up [09:16] and generally do a fair amount of the packaging doc work around MOTU [09:17] Ah, good. [09:17] some of the "how to package" type stuff should probably go into the packaging guide [09:17] I saw that guide earlier. It's got a lot of information that isn't in my pages and vice versa. [09:17] the repo stuff is also very nice [09:17] Definitely. [09:18] I wonder if it would also be a good addition to the packaging guide [09:18] Is there an all-on-one-page verison of the packaging guide? [09:18] I don't think so [09:18] there is a PDF [09:18] Drat. Little hard to search. :) [09:18] That'll do. [09:18] it'd on help.ubuntu.com [09:19] you don't happen to know docbook XML do you? [09:19] I do. [09:19] Or did. :) [09:19] Haven't used it in years. [09:20] well, I write the packaging guide in docbook and it's in the doc team svn repo [09:20] you are more than welcome to work on it and incorporate your material [09:20] some of the stuff (particularly the repo material) should also be on the wiki [09:22] Mostly what I wrote about is how to maintain an apt-gettable repository. [09:22] The packaging guide doesn't appear to cover that at all... is that intentional? [09:22] not really [09:22] I hadn't really thought of it before because I don't maintian a repo myself [09:23] but it might be a nice addition [09:23] I find repos are really handy in many-computer maintenance situations. For instance, keeping a school's computer lab up to date. [09:23] exactly [09:25] I'd love to see that. Would be very valuable [09:26] OK, I'll see what I can do. [09:26] I won't worry about package building much since it looks like you've got that covered. [09:26] the info on the doc team svn repo is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository [09:27] the packaging guide is in the generic/ directory [09:27] I'm kinda busy right at the moment but if you have any questions my email is mantha AT ubuntu.com [09:28] will do. [10:00] New bug: #76647 in ubuntu-doc "Searching via apt not covered in Command-Line Package Management" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76647 === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-251-119-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === willvdl [n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-251-119-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === trappist_ [i=trappist@linuxkungfu.org] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@ubuntu/member/theCore] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@217.74.211.14] has joined #ubuntu-doc