[12:29] <joejaxx> time to pick another merge lol
[12:30] <ivoks> hi
[12:30] <tsmithe> hiya
[12:31] <sistpoty> hi ivoks
[12:31] <ivoks> i hate voodoo in debian/patches :/
[12:32] <ivoks> this guy adds sed scripts in debian/patches and runs them trough rules
[12:32] <ivoks> should i follow his logic or do it like it should be done :)
[12:33] <ivoks> :)
[12:34] <lupine_85> debian & ubuntu specify no direct changes to the source :/
[12:34] <ivoks> this aren't direct changes
[12:34] <ivoks> this is debian/patches
[12:34] <ivoks> and this guy doesn't use patch to patch things up
[12:34] <ivoks> he uses sed
[12:35] <lupine_85> weird
[12:35] <lupine_85> i would just use sed in debian/rules directly
[12:36] <lupine_85> or run sed on patches, which are then applied... depending on context :)
[12:36] <ivoks> urgh... i'm really not in the mood for sed scripts :/
[12:37] <sistpoty> _Enchained: uploaded
[12:38] <_Enchained> thanks sistpoty
[12:38] <sistpoty> thanks for you contribution, _Enchained ;)
[12:38] <_Enchained> it's a joy for me
[12:38] <ivoks> sistpoty: any advice? :)
[12:38] <sistpoty> ivoks: working on a merge?
[12:39] <ivoks> sistpoty: yes
[12:39] <sistpoty> ivoks: how many sed scripts are there?
[12:39] <ivoks> sistpoty: 3
[12:39] <ivoks> and each is called from rules
[12:40] <sistpoty> ivoks: I guess 3 small ones? Then maybe I'd apply them once, and kick them out, and ship the stuff in the diff
[12:40] <ivoks> i really don't understand why he did it this way
[12:40] <sistpoty> ivoks: I assume, he wanted to keep the diff small
[12:40] <ivoks> sistpoty: actually, bacula is allready merged, but FTBS
[12:41] <ivoks> sistpoty: our newer libc-dev has variable that bacula was using
[12:41] <sistpoty> nice
[12:41] <ivoks> 'tee'
[12:41] <ivoks> it's not big problem, but...
[12:41] <sistpoty> ivoks: do you need to touch the sed scripts to fix this?
[12:41] <ivoks> no
[12:41] <ivoks> i would like to do it with patch
[12:41] <ivoks> and i'll do it :/
[12:42] <sistpoty> ivoks: I would go the way of least resistance... just modify the source and don't care about a patch-system
[12:42] <ivoks> hm...
[12:42] <sistpoty> (but I'm lazy, and I don't like patch systems *g*)
[12:42] <ivoks> we can't touch source
[12:43] <ivoks> that creates lots of headache later :)
[12:43] <ivoks> argh.... it's 00:43
[12:43] <sistpoty> ivoks: why would that? (of course I mean source via plain .diff.gz, not orig-tarball)
[12:44] <sistpoty> or this this one of the tarball in the tarball thingy?
[12:44] <ivoks> no, it's not
[12:44] <ivoks> i could do it that way, yes...
[02:37] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[02:51] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:51] <joejaxx> anyone nkow why i whould be getting ioctl: LOOP_SET_FD: Device or resource busy
[02:51] <joejaxx> on the ubuntu livecd?
[02:51] <joejaxx> know*
[02:51] <joejaxx> hello bddebian 
[02:51] <joejaxx> i did that ivman merge
[02:51] <joejaxx> :)
[02:51] <bddebian> Good man
[02:52] <crimsun_> ah, good ole ivman
[02:52] <bddebian> heh
[02:52] <joejaxx> :) yeah i like it
[02:52] <bddebian> crimsun_: When are you leaving us?
[02:52] <crimsun_> 10 hours
[02:52] <bddebian> Doh
[02:53] <ajmitch> we'll miss you, honest
[02:53] <joejaxx> yeap :(
[02:53] <bhale> going where?
[02:58] <joejaxx> crimsun_: whould you know why i whould be getting a device busy for /dev/loop0 on the ubuntu livecd?
[02:59] <crimsun_> bhale: irvine>oakland>kowloon
[02:59] <bhale> crimsun_: but we'll see you again in a few weeks?
[03:00] <crimsun_> tomorrow for revu, then next wednesday
[03:00] <crimsun_> joejaxx: sorry, what's the context? when? where?
[03:00] <bhale> maybe unmounting it?
[03:01] <joejaxx> crimsun_: on the ubuntu edgy livecd
[03:01] <joejaxx> crimsun_: normally i use knoppix to do this
[03:02] <crimsun_> right, but when?
[03:02] <joejaxx> crimsun_: well in this case using losetup
[03:02] <crimsun_> try using the next loop device
[03:02] <joejaxx> i should be using dm_crypt but bah
[03:02] <joejaxx> crimsun_: i did
[03:03] <joejaxx> ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument
[03:03] <crimsun_> interesting, haven't seen that on the 6.10 live cd
[03:03] <joejaxx> maybe i should use an older ubuntu cd
[03:04] <joejaxx> it will not matter as i am debootstraping anyway
[03:04] <joejaxx> hmm
[03:04] <joejaxx> i am just wondering why i am getting that error though
[03:05] <joejaxx> hold on bbl booting fluxbuntu
[03:09] <joejaxx> ok
[03:10] <joejaxx> i am back
[03:11] <joejaxx> nope
[03:11] <joejaxx> it does not work on dapper either
[03:18] <joejaxx> that is unfortunate
[03:18] <joejaxx> :\
[03:19] <bddebian> Heya Laser
[03:19] <bddebian> +Jock
[03:19] <joejaxx> hello LaserJock 
[03:19] <LaserJock> hi guys
[03:19] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock 
[03:20] <crimsun_> 2/3 of the motu trinity!
[03:20] <ajmitch> yay!
[03:20] <bddebian> *cough*
[03:20] <LaserJock> heh
[03:20] <bhale> sorry
[03:24] <bhale> since dajobe seems to have thrown in the towl
[03:24] <bhale> and beowulf pops up once a month
[03:25] <LaserJock> well, so what exactly is the point of waiting until it's released?
[03:25] <ajmitch> in my case, we have servers from a hosting provider
[03:25] <ajmitch> so it's a good thing to get etch pre-installed
[03:25] <LaserJock> do they do anything but security updates?
[03:26] <ajmitch> rather than dist-upgrade a production box to etch
[03:26] <LaserJock> ah
[03:26] <ajmitch> I have no problem doing a dist-upgrade, obviously
[03:26] <LaserJock> yeah, it would be good to get servers up to etch
[03:26] <ajmitch> but it takes time
[03:27] <LaserJock> I think my only Debian box will stay sarge
[03:27] <LaserJock> I'd like to update it but I need to stay with a 2.4 kernel
[03:29] <ajmitch> I don't know if my old speedtouch USB will work with the kernel drivers in 2.6, without some pain
[03:29] <LaserJock> this is the first Debian release I've seen, it's interesting
[03:29] <ajmitch> I might replace it with a decent adsl2+-capable modem though
[03:30] <LaserJock> I'm stuck because of a proprietary driver for data acquisition
[04:02] <effie_jayx> ajmitch,  I have the same modem... 
[04:02] <effie_jayx> the blue sting ray... :S
[04:03] <ajmitch> blue or green?
[04:03] <effie_jayx> well more like cyan
[04:03] <effie_jayx> :D
[04:03] <ajmitch> yeah
[04:03] <ajmitch> with something like rev 0 firmware
[04:03] <effie_jayx> I didn't try it after hoary though... 
[04:04] <effie_jayx> I gave up on it
[04:04] <ajmitch> heh
[04:04] <effie_jayx> bought a 
[04:04] <effie_jayx> starbridge my 
[04:04] <effie_jayx> ajmitch,  :D way to go... :D
[04:05] <ajmitch> with a script from cron that checks if ppp0 is down, if so, it reloads the usb kernel modules & reloads the modem firmware
[04:05] <ajmitch> most reliable way of keeping the connection going
[04:07] <bddebian> Damn, geser is a machine
[04:21] <LaserJock> any core-devs about?
[04:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: depends
[04:25] <LaserJock> I need a sponsor for a -proposed upload
[04:25] <ajmitch> what is it?
[04:25] <LaserJock> bug #75021
[04:26] <LaserJock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/python-imaging/+bug/75021
[04:26] <ajmitch> how much should I charge for uploads? 
[04:27] <lupine_85> $$$ :)
[04:29] <LaserJock> hmm, well there are other core-devs so you'd have competition
[04:30] <ajmitch> I'm sure we could get together & agree on a standard rate :)
[04:31] <ajmitch> nothing wrong with a bit of price-fixing :)
[04:31] <LaserJock> bah, I'd have to get the TB to do some anti-trust work and break you up
[04:32] <ajmitch> who said they wouldn't be in on it?
[04:33] <LaserJock> well, maybe I'd have to go to the CC
[04:33] <LaserJock> surely mako would help
[04:33] <ajmitch> CC are all core devs at the moment
[04:34] <chillywilly> tsk tsk
[04:44] <bddebian> Grrr
[04:47] <chillywilly> hi bddebian 
[04:48] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly
[04:48] <joejaxx> how can i find out what is using /dev/loop0?
[04:48] <joejaxx> it keeps saying resource busy
[04:49] <joejaxx> man that is annoying
[04:49] <fernando> fuser or lsof
[04:52] <joejaxx> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38033/
[04:52] <joejaxx> fernando: thanks for that information btw
[04:54] <fernando> joejaxx: you're welcome
[04:56] <bddebian> Has anyone else looked at fnfx?  I don't think the changes are relevant anymore
[04:58] <Fujitsu_> What are said changes?
[04:59] <bddebian> A build-dep on libtool, calling autoconf in rules and a couple of other such things
[04:59] <bddebian> There was a patch for Hoary for acpi also but I'm not sure that's even relevant anymore
[04:59] <Fujitsu_> If there is a new Debian version, I doubt that's necessary.
[05:05] <joejaxx> sudo losetup -d /dev/loop0 
[05:05] <joejaxx> ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy
[05:05] <joejaxx> rofl
[05:06] <joejaxx> oh man
[05:20] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: ping
[05:20] <bddebian> Heya Burgundavia
[05:20] <Burgundavia> hey bddebian
[05:21] <ajmitch> hi Burgundavia 
[05:21] <Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
[05:21] <bddebian> We had no binaries for diacanvas in Edgy nor do we have any in Feisty??
[05:23] <Hobbsee> bddebian: it never built
[05:23] <Fujitsu_> Yes, silly... I forget what it is.
[05:23] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:23] <bddebian> It was .. Hmm now I can't remember either
[05:59] <LaserJock> darn it, I'm trying to find a bug, but I can't find it :/
[06:03] <joejaxx> LaserJock: what was the bug about?
[06:03] <LaserJock> well, something about not being able to hibernate because of some swap/kernel problem
[06:04] <LaserJock> which obviously gives me a bazillion results in LP
[06:05] <joejaxx> were there any other specifics
[06:07] <LaserJock> not really that I remember
[06:09] <bddebian> Stupid freakin' diacanvas :-(
[06:10] <Fujitsu_> Why, bddebian?
[06:10] <bddebian> FTBFS
[06:11] <Fujitsu_> Of course!
[06:11] <Fujitsu_> Damn Gentoo server...
[06:11] <Fujitsu_> Trying to install dspam. dspam wants MySQL 5... But that's going to break everything that uses MySQL... damnit.
[06:29] <jikanter> whatis dsfg about pysvn?
[06:29] <jikanter> is it subversion?
[06:31] <LaserJock> jikanter: what is your question?
[06:31] <jikanter> when a package is labeled with dsfg, that means that there is some sort of problem that may have to be resolved in the original tarball, is that correct?
[06:32] <jikanter> As in remove some sort of non-free software component
[06:40] <LaserJock> jikanter: yep
[06:40] <jikanter> thanks
[07:10] <LaserJock> does a swap partition usually show up with a df -a ?
[07:10] <Fujitsu_> LaserJock: I don't believe so.
[07:10] <Fujitsu_> Indeed, it doesn't.
[07:11] <LaserJock> is there a way to tell if my system is actually using the swap partition
[07:11] <Hobbsee> it seems not
[07:11] <Hobbsee> free
[07:11] <LaserJock> yeah, just thought of that
[07:11] <LaserJock> interesting
[07:11] <LaserJock> no swap for me
[07:11] <LaserJock> = no hibernation
[07:11] <Hobbsee> enable swap again then?
[07:11] <Fujitsu_> swapon!
[07:14] <LaserJock> well, that seems like a very temporary solution
[07:14] <Lathiat> no, it doesnt
[07:14] <Lathiat> cat /proc/swaps
[07:15] <LaserJock> nothing
[07:15] <Lathiat> then no swap :)
[07:15] <Lathiat> swapon -a ?
[07:15] <Lathiat> if a hibernate fails
[07:15] <Lathiat> it screws your swap
[07:15] <Lathiat> and you need to mkswap
[07:15] <Lathiat> also means the UUID= will change
[07:15] <Lathiat> so edgys UUID= for swap in /etc/fstab
[07:15] <Lathiat> needs fixing
[07:15] <LaserJock> well, why don't I just not use UUID?
[07:15] <Lathiat> or that
[07:16] <Lathiat> (UUID= changing is a result of having to mkswap
[07:16] <LaserJock> well, I'm looking at bug #66637
[07:16] <Lathiat> not hibernating
[07:16] <Lathiat> a normal hibernate wont change the id of the swap
[07:16] <Lathiat> or at least
[07:16] <Lathiat> i assume it wont
[07:16] <Lathiat> perhaps it does
[07:16] <Lathiat> err, ubugtu, which isnt there
[07:17] <Lathiat> could be related yet
[07:17] <Lathiat> yeh
[07:17] <LaserJock> well, it seems that Scott says that bug is only for people who ran mkswap
[07:17] <LaserJock> and I didn't
[07:17] <Lathiat> right but if you had a hibernate fail
[07:17] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure what my solution is supposed to be
[07:17] <Lathiat> it eats the swap
[07:17] <Lathiat> so it wont mount
[07:17] <Lathiat> so you need to mkswap
[07:17] <Lathiat> in which case, you'll hit that bug
[07:17] <Lathiat> by fail i mean you hibernated
[07:17] <Lathiat> but on next boot it didnt resume
[07:18] <Lathiat> and booted normally
[07:18] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't remember that happening but ok
[07:18] <Lathiat> well
[07:18] <Lathiat> put it this way
[07:18] <Lathiat> can you swapon the partition
[07:18] <Lathiat> if not, what does it say when you try?
[07:20] <LaserJock> Invalid Argument
[07:21] <LaserJock> more precisely: swapon: /dev/disk/by-uuid/f59bd815-d749-497d-aa92-fc2e2a2d572a: Invalid argument
[07:21] <LaserJock> can I just switch fstab to the right partition and it'll work?
[08:37] <ScottK> I've uploaded a revised package for pyspf for revu based on yesterday's comments.  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3833 I believe it's ready for REVU when someone is available.  Thanks.
[08:48] <Burgundavia> imbrandon: you around?
[09:30] <imbrandon> Burgwork, pong
[09:31] <imbrandon> ello all
[09:45] <\sh> moins
[10:00] <gpocentek> hello
[10:02] <tsmithe> hi
[10:24] <dholbach> good morning
[10:24] <gpocentek> morning Daniel
[10:24] <ajmitch> hi daniel
[10:26] <dholbach> hey gpocentek - you changed your nick?
[10:26] <dholbach> hey Andrew
[10:26] <Fujitsu> dholbach, looks like he succumbed to peer pressure :(
[10:26] <gpocentek> dholbach: yes, copying yours ;)
[10:27] <dholbach> oh man :-)
[10:29] <siretart> dholbach!!!
[10:29] <dholbach> I'm not sure if it's the best thing to take a leaf out of my book :)
[10:29] <dholbach> heya siretart!
[10:29] <siretart> :)
[10:30] <siretart> dholbach: update about bzr-builddeb: Looks like I'm comaintaining the package now. Maintainer and upstream is James Westby, code looks clean, but needs python-debian synced from debian/experimental first.
[10:30] <dholbach> oh NICE
[10:30] <dholbach> siretart: you ROCK!
[10:31] <siretart> looks very smooth up to now, there are some loose ends in the code, but those other commands aren't really thought to the end yet
[10:31] <siretart> for everyday use, its usable
[10:31] <dholbach> nice... that's really good news for everybody
[10:31] <siretart> right. I think I'll blog about it as soon as everything is ready in feisty
[10:31] <siretart> it already works on my feisty/amd64 workstation
[10:32] <dholbach> Thanks a lot for that
[10:38] <dholbach> HAPPY REVU DAY :)
[10:38] <Fujitsu> Noooooooo.
[10:40] <MehdiHassanpour> hi :)
[10:40] <Fujitsu> Hi MehdiHassanpour.
[10:40] <MehdiHassanpour> ty for adding aspell-fa package to Feisty packages
[10:42] <MehdiHassanpour> we've uploaded ttf-freefarsi to debian unstable
[10:42] <MehdiHassanpour> will you add this package to Feisty repos too
[10:43] <Fujitsu> It will be automatically imported if it is in unstable/main
[10:43] <MehdiHassanpour> yes, it's in unstable
[10:43] <dholbach> Fujitsu: the debian import freeze is coming up soon
[10:43] <Fujitsu> dholbach, this is true.
[10:44] <dholbach> so our archive admins *might* need some prodding
[10:44] <MehdiHassanpour> how you'll be informed about the new packages in unstable ?
[10:44] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[10:44] <Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
[10:44] <Fujitsu> HAPPY REVU DAY!
[10:44] <Fujitsu> Nyahahaha
[10:44] <dholbach> YEEEHAAAA
[10:44] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: how does ttf-freefarsi look? is it better than the existing farsi fonts?
[10:45] <MehdiHassanpour> looks good, and should be the only persian font very near to unicode
[10:45] <Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu, dholbach 
[10:45] <Hobbsee> oh no!  it cant be REVU day!
[10:46] <tepsipakki> so, it's (a) REVU/HUG/MERGE day(s) now :)
[10:46] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: get reviewing :P
[10:46] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: nice... should it be the default for ar and fa locales?
[10:46] <tepsipakki> actually, I'm thinking about making my first merge
[10:47] <dholbach> tepsipakki: ROCK ON
[10:47] <tepsipakki> It's about time
[10:47] <Hobbsee> tepsipakki: yay!
[10:47] <MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: dejavu is default now
[10:47] <tepsipakki> bddebian: ping? I'd merge beneath-a-steel-sky :)
[10:48] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: ah right
[10:48] <MehdiHassanpour> we are working on dejavu too look better for persian too
[10:49] <MehdiHassanpour> shots of ttf-freefont http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=124702
[10:49] <MehdiHassanpour> sorry ttf-freefarsi
[10:50] <dholbach> they look REAL good
[10:50] <MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: do I need to inform you about packages we add in debian unstable ?
[10:50] <MehdiHassanpour> aspell-hy will be added soon
[10:52] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: if you like us to have a specific version and we're in a freeze, then sure, I'm happy to take orders on that :)
[10:53] <MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: then how you'll be informed about new packges added in unstable ? 
[10:54] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: it's hard to find out - i check debian-devel-changes@, but it's easy to miss things in the load of uploads there
[10:57] <MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: MOTU team are doing great job :) thank you all 
[10:59] <MehdiHassanpour> dholbach: how will packges come from Universe to Main ?
[10:59] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: thanks a lot... and thanks for your work too
[10:59] <dholbach> MehdiHassanpour: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
[11:00] <MehdiHassanpour> :-)
[11:01] <tepsipakki> hmm, the change in beneath-a-s-s (!) is just a desktop file, which could be useful on debian too. Should I push it to debian first?
[11:04] <neutrinomass> According to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nedit/, 5.5-2 is in Edgy, but I can only see 5.5-1 , which probably leads to bug 57808
[11:04] <dholbach> tepsipakki: sure
[11:04] <neutrinomass> What happened to 5.5-2 ?
[11:05] <dholbach> 1:5.5-2ubuntu1 is in edgy
[11:05] <dholbach> according to the page you mentioned
[11:05] <neutrinomass> dholbach: It's not though!
[11:05] <dholbach> look in the left second portlet
[11:05] <dholbach> it's in DEPWAIT
[11:05] <dholbach> so it hasn't built
[11:05] <dholbach> only the source is there
[11:06] <neutrinomass> dholbach: true - it's waiting for libmotif-dev, since july
[11:08] <neutrinomass> why though? it apparently poses no requirements on the libmotif-dev version, and libmotif-dev exists .... 
[11:10] <dholbach> it's in multiverse
[11:10] <rob> hey, debuild -S is giving me "gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available" even though I just restored it from backup (this is a fresh-ish edgy install) and marked it ultimately trusted, is there anything else I need to do?
[11:10] <dholbach> However the following packages replace it:
[11:10] <dholbach>   lesstif2-dev
[11:11] <dholbach> so rebuild nedit with lesstif2-dev
[11:11] <dholbach> rob: do you have a gpg key on that machine?
[11:11] <Hobbsee> rob: specify the key wiht -k
[11:11] <Hobbsee> rob: and add it to your .bashrc, even better
[11:11] <rob> dholbach: yes, both the public and private ones
[11:12] <neutrinomass> dholbach: from the debian changelog : Replaced lesstif2 with libmotif-dev, because with ubuntus     new lesstif2 version nedit doesn't work
[11:12] <dholbach> I use this in .bashrc (as Hobbsee said):
[11:12] <dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
[11:12] <dholbach> export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com'
[11:12] <dholbach> neutrinomass: then you need to tell the buildd admins to move nedit to multiverse too
[11:12] <dholbach> neutrinomass: universe stuff can't build-depend on multiverse stuff
[11:13] <neutrinomass> dholbach: So I open a new bug and subscribe the archive to it ?
[11:14] <dholbach> neutrinomass: archive-admin, yeah - I should think so
[11:14] <rob> ah, yeah that worked, now to remember my passphrase :(
[11:14] <Hobbsee> dholbach: ubuntu-archive?
[11:15] <dholbach> neutrinomass: what Hobbsee said *poors himself another cup of tea*
[11:15] <dholbach> . o O { lalala }
[11:15] <neutrinomass> Hobbsee, dholbach: Ok, thanks. I'll subscribe stephan hermann as well who did the debian upload
[11:16] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:27] <siretart> neutrinomass: he is \sh in this channel
[11:28] <neutrinomass> siretart: I didn't remember if it was \sh or sh\ :p
[11:30] <ajmitch> oh dear, my vmware window has no fonts again
[11:32] <rob> ouch
[11:33] <ajmitch> it's happened before
[11:33] <ajmitch> part of the fun of running feisty
[11:33] <rob> ah
[11:33] <rob> which version of vmware?
[11:33] <ajmitch> server
[11:33] <ajmitch> so it's a 32-bit app on 64-bit ubuntu
[11:34] <ajmitch> it gets its own copy of gtk+ & pango
[11:34] <rob> I have player going here for a windows xp install for itunes
[11:34] <rob> yay my hyperion package build successfully
[11:34] <tepsipakki> bddebian: filed bugs upstream about survex and b-a-s-s, they could be sync-able after a while
[11:41] <Yagisan> ajmitch, the feisty amd64 kernel boots for you ?
[11:42] <ajmitch> depends, what problems are you having?
[11:42] <Yagisan> ajmitch, I'm poking around to see why it fails to boot on me. seems hang, but responds to the 3 finger salute
[11:42] <ajmitch> where does it hang?
[11:43] <ajmitch> it does take ~6 minutes to drop me to a busybox shell so that I can start md & lvm manually
[11:43] <Yagisan> ajmitch, shortly after "raid" setup, on the sata and usb drivers dialog
[11:43] <ajmitch> aha
[11:43] <ajmitch> so you've got the same problem
[11:43] <Yagisan> and I have sata raid and usb
[11:43] <Yagisan> so, I'm running edgys kernel.
[11:43] <ajmitch> which won't be fixed until udev runs mdadm, rather than the script being run before sata modules are loaded
[11:44] <ajmitch> you'll find that it will boot fine, if you have some patience & know what to run
[11:47] <Yagisan> :/ well, I'd only lose home while waiting a long time for it to boot
[11:48] <ajmitch> ah
[11:48] <ajmitch> so it's a bit more important
[11:52] <Yagisan> ajmitch, I did re-install edgy to move root off raid
[11:53] <ajmitch> why?
[11:58] <siretart> ajmitch: I assume the race isn't fixed yet, as I didn't notice relevant uploads. right?
[11:59] <ajmitch> I think so
[11:59] <siretart> Yagisan: in a bugreport I read, that booting with 'break=mount' and pressing ctrl-d afterwards makes your system boot
[11:59] <imbrandon> ugh
[12:00] <imbrandon> heya siretart ajmitch 
[12:00] <ajmitch> hey siretart 
[12:01] <ajmitch> & imbrandon :)
[12:01] <imbrandon> :)
[12:01] <imbrandon> man this thing is a speed demon , now if i can just get ubuntu on it :(
[12:01] <imbrandon> well speedy compared to what i was used too, even with half the ram
[12:01] <imbrandon> hehe
[12:02] <ajmitch> heh
[12:02] <rob> is there any reason why pbuilder would make a package ok, but get to install-binary and install and fail on both?
[12:03] <imbrandon> 3ghz dual core pentium d em64t, but only 512mb ram :(
[12:03] <rob> s/package/run make
[12:03] <ajmitch> rob: the package is broken :)
[12:03] <rob> ajmitch: any suggestion?
[12:03] <ajmitch> not without relevant errors
[12:03] <rob> it was just set up with dh_make
[12:03] <ajmitch> then that's the problem
[12:03] <ajmitch> find out what is breaking in it
[12:03] <rob> oh?
[12:03] <Yagisan> ajmitch, the reinstall was because of degraded raid5 array, no replacement parts (no cash), and not enough online storage to backup, and I didn't see any docs on how to convert from degraded raid5 to raid1 without backing up all my data anyway
[12:04] <ajmitch> dh_make gives a good suggestion, not a working package
[12:04] <rob> ajmitch: all it is telling me is error 1, error 2 respectively
[12:04] <ajmitch> rob: the error is further up
[12:20] <imbrandon> ...
[12:24] <dholbach> did anybody see dolson or somebody else from the ubuntustudio folks in the last time?
[12:24] <dholbach> it'd be nice if they took care of seq24 merge and pushed the manpage and the desktop file upstream
[12:30] <Hobbsee> dholbach: i thought i did that?  ages ago?
[12:30] <dholbach> it's on the list
[12:30] <fernando> moin all
[12:31] <Hobbsee> ah
[12:31] <Hobbsee> it was a sync, too
[12:32] <Hobbsee> hrm, perhaps not
[12:44] <gpocentek> new libgoffice and gnumeric in debian, I think I know wht I'm going to do this afternoon...
[12:45] <dholbach> gpocentek: you should ask the debian maintainer again if he wouldn't like to use your patch
[12:45] <dholbach> gpocentek: it proves to work quite well for us
[12:46] <gpocentek> dholbach: I'll mail him again, with the updated patches
[12:46] <dholbach> ROCK :)
[12:46] <gpocentek> :)
[12:46] <gpocentek> and `echo "REVU REVU REVU" >> TODO` for tomorrow ;)
[12:48] <Fujitsu> Argh, that evil gnumeric from experimental.
[12:48] <Fujitsu> Evil, evil, evil.
[12:48] <gpocentek> Fujitsu: that's strange, some people really like it better than the one we had in dapper
[12:49] <Fujitsu> It also breaks things needing a proper goffice.
[12:49] <gpocentek> right...
[12:49] <Fujitsu> ie. not the unstable one not recommended for general use.
[01:20] <Ornedan> G'day. Does anyone know who I have to yell at to get bug 68053 fixed? There even seems to be a possible fix (bug 68380), but no-one seems to be really interested in getting it to the repository
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68053 in azureus "Eclipse will not start (Edgy)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68053
[01:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 68380 in eclipse "[SRU]  eclipse for edgy-updates" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68380
[01:28] <dholbach> Ornedan: yelling at people if completely out of order
[01:30] <Ornedan> dholbach: I'll assume that s/if/is/. And yes, it is in order if there is obvious neglect, as in this case
[01:30] <Fujitsu> No, it's not in order.
[01:30] <Fujitsu> We're volunteers... Neglect isn't exactly possible.
[01:30] <dholbach> exactly
[01:31] <dholbach> if there's a fix that makes sense and has been proven to work, there'a s procedure for inclusion.
[01:31] <Ornedan> Neglect is possible, even if you volunteer. By being a maintaner, you take up responsibilities. Which you can then neglect
[01:32] <Hobbsee> eclipse doesnt appear to build with later versions of java, either
[01:32] <dholbach> We work on packages as teams and some things are more important than others. There's no dedicated maintainer for some packages.
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Ornedan: there arent maintainers in universe for ubuntu
[01:32] <Fujitsu> Precisely, dholbach.
[01:33] <Fujitsu> s/some packages/most packages/, even.
[01:33] <dholbach> We have 20000+ packages and ~100 people working on them (in varying degrees).
[01:33] <Fujitsu> And 20000 open bugs :'(
[01:33] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ points out the procedure for getting fixes included in the distro.
[01:33] <Hobbsee> !info eclipse feisty
[01:33] <ubotu> eclipse: Extensible Tool Platform and Java IDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.1-2ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 121 kB, installed size 412 kB
[01:33] <Hobbsee> !info eclipse edgy
[01:33] <ubotu> eclipse: Extensible Tool Platform and Java IDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.1-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 121 kB, installed size 412 kB
[01:34] <Ornedan> Anyway, in this case, the broken packages got released about the same time as Edgy came out of testing. In other words, w/o getting tested
[01:34] <Hobbsee> oh nice, someone merged it for feisty
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Ornedan: feel free to test stuff before release
[01:34] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, that's an odd definition of nice.
[01:34] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: didnt you see how much of a bitch that was to merge, on MOM?
[01:34] <Ornedan> Hobbsee: I would have. Except there were no packages to test before release
[01:34] <Hobbsee> and ther'es no other way to put that - it was horrible
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I would have honestly preferred that Eclipse were stamped out :P
[01:35] <Hobbsee> Ornedan: i believe it built long before freeze
[01:35] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: me too
[01:36] <dholbach> Ornedan: Everybody's happy if you get involved and do testing of patches and stuff like that... it's just that I object to yelling at people who do voluntary work and I predict you that it's not going to help.
[01:36] <Ornedan> Hobbsee: Could be. However, I was using the edgy testing repos for a few months and didn't get the eclipse packages until around the release date (+-2 days, can't remember exactly)
[01:36] <Hobbsee> Ornedan: it appears that there are binaries for eclipse on feisty.  i'd suggest testing them in a while, to make sure they work as expected
[01:36] <Fujitsu> Ornedan, -4 days, actually.
[01:37] <Ornedan> 'k
[01:37] <dholbach> I know that vil and doko work on eclipse and java. But they're both very busy, so they'll appreciate if you decide to work with them
[01:37] <Hobbsee> well, there you go
[01:39] <Ornedan> Anyway, what's also nasty about tossing up the broken packages is that the old and functional packages got taken down at the same time. So no rollback option for anyone affected
[01:40] <Ornedan> It would be sort of nice not to leave people hanging in limbo for two months :(
[01:41] <Hobbsee> dholbach: got anythign in particular you want merged?
[01:41] <Fujitsu> It would be nice to have testing pre-release, as well.
[01:41] <dholbach> Hobbsee: no, I'm quite happy with my list - I did most of seb's and my merges
[01:41] <Hobbsee> holy crap!!!
[01:41] <Hobbsee> http://merges.ubuntu.com/f/flight-of-the-amazon-queen/
[01:41] <Hobbsee> [   ]  flight-of-the-amazon-queen_1.0.0.orig.tar.gz      02-Jun-2006 16:08   35M  
[01:42] <ajmitch> that's small
[01:42] <Fujitsu> Heheh, wesnoth is better.
[01:42] <ajmitch> [   ]  vegastrike-data_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz 13-Apr-2005 19:28  152M 
[01:42] <Fujitsu> Not bad.
[01:42] <Hobbsee> eek
[01:43] <ajmitch> all of the above are games
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Of course.
[01:43] <Fujitsu> No sane application would be big.
[01:43] <ajmitch> flight of the amazon queen should be a trivial merge, it's only a .desktop file
[01:43] <Hobbsee> yes
[01:43] <Hobbsee> but i'm not downloading that base tarball
[01:43] <Fujitsu> Is it a new upstream version?
[01:44] <Hobbsee> no
[01:44] <Fujitsu> So merge it, then fake the .dsc and .changes. Simple.
[01:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[01:44] <Hobbsee> i was thinking about that
[01:45] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Do flight-of-amazon-queen on liquified, since the local mirror will have the orig
[01:45] <Hobbsee> StevenK: good point
[01:46] <StevenK> It might require taking liberties with grab-merge.sh, though
[01:47] <Hobbsee> yeah
[01:50] <cypher1_> i had filed couple of bugs yesterday for merges.. is anyone reviewing it ?
[01:51] <Hobbsee> cypher1_: bug #'s?
[01:51] <Hobbsee> and did you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
[01:52] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: one is 76479
[01:52] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: yes i had subscribed
[01:52] <cypher1_> let me find the other one :)
[01:52] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: second is 76483
[01:53] <Hobbsee> bug 76479 bug 76483
[01:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76479 in doc++ "Merge doc++ 3.4.10-3.4 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76479
[01:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76483 in ipac-ng "Merge ipac-ng 1.31-3 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76483
[01:53] <Hobbsee> mmm ok
[01:54] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: since i am new to this, i am expecting some review comments which i can work on asap before the deadline :)
[01:54] <Hobbsee> fair enough
[01:54] <Hobbsee> the actual merging doenst end until feature freeze does it?
[01:55] <gnomefreak> Hobbsee: main merges end tomorrow i believe
[01:55] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: oh then its fine :)
[01:55] <Hobbsee> ah
[01:55] <gnomefreak> but universe ends at feature freeze IRRC
[01:55] <cypher1_> gnomefreak: when is that ?
[01:55] <gnomefreak> IIRC
[01:56] <gnomefreak> cypher1_: not looking at release schedule atm i would think jan. maybe
[01:56] <jikanter> What does SRU stand for?
[01:56] <cypher1_> gnomefreak: ok thanks
[01:56] <StevenK> jikanter: Stable Release Update
[01:56] <jikanter> cool, thanks
[02:00] <gnomefreak> cypher1_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule?highlight=%28feisty%29  looks like its feb. 8th
[02:03] <Ornedan> Any saner way of acquiring the Feisty Eclipse packages than doing "cat sources.list | sed -e s/edgy/feisty/g | tee sources.list" and then running a package manager?
[02:03] <cypher1_> gnomefreak: but it says debianimportfreeze on dec 21
[02:04] <gnomefreak> yeah i know and thats when main merges are over
[02:04] <gnomefreak> cypher1_: most of us got emails on it :)
[02:05] <cypher1_> gnomefreak: so dec 21 does not mean universe merge ?
[02:05] <gnomefreak> no
[02:05] <gnomefreak> thats main merges have to be done 
[02:07] <\sh> anduniverse merges are have to be done as well
[02:08] <\sh> it has to be: and universe merges have to be done as well on 21dec
[02:08] <gnomefreak> \sh: thought it was feature freeze as always?
[02:09] <\sh> nope because of etch freezing...after 21st dec debian is uploading all the other crack
[02:09] <Hobbsee> \sh: that's just when the autosync stops, isnt it?  
[02:09] <\sh> jepp...
[02:09] <Hobbsee> \sh: we can still request manual syncs, and do merging
[02:11] <Adri2000> Seveas: feisty-changes rss feed dead?
[02:12] <Seveas> Adri2000, no, but maybe your dns is failing
[02:12] <Seveas> media.ubuntu-nl.org changed host
[02:13] <Adri2000> Seveas: no, that's not the problem, I can download the file without problem but according to it the last upload was 24 hours ago
[02:14] <Seveas> Adri2000, then you're downloading it from the old host
[02:15] <Seveas> media.ubuntu-nl.org should point to 81.171.100.21
[02:15] <Adri2000> Resolving media.ubuntu-nl.org... 87.250.139.98
[02:15] <Adri2000> okay :-)
[02:15] <Seveas> ah crap
[02:16] <Seveas> mitsuhiko failed to update dns records
[02:16] <Seveas> the .....
[02:16] <Adri2000> eh :p
[02:16] <Seveas> I am NOT amused
[02:16] <Adri2000> oops :] 
[03:50] <chantra> freeflying_: are you here
[03:53] <freeflying_> chantra: hi
[03:53] <chantra> hi freeflying_ are you packaging mms then?
[03:53] <chantra> was going to, but I saw your reply
[03:53] <freeflying_> chantra: just begain  :)
[03:53] <chantra> seems to be a real cool piece of software
[03:54] <freeflying_> chantra: yep
[03:54] <chantra> okie dokie, so I'm not going to :)
[03:54] <chantra> btw, how comes freevo has never been packaged?
[03:54] <freeflying_> chantra: some guy have worked on it in debian
[03:55] <chantra> can't see it though
[03:56] <freeflying_> chantra: I found someone has sent out ITP
[03:57] <chantra> what's ITP alreday
[03:57] <Amaranth> ITP = Intent To Package
[03:57] <chantra> okie
[03:57] <chantra> http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20061116.170903.4d9f87ee.en.html
[03:57] <chantra> more than a month ago though
[03:58] <Amaranth> in debian someone files an ITP bug so people know they're working on it then close the bug when they upload the package
[03:59] <chantra> btw, there is a bug which hasn't been looked though and still happen
[03:59] <chantra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/python-defaults/+bug/74956
[03:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74956 in python-defaults "[Feisty]  Can't import python module" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[04:00] <chantra> can you guys launch (in feisty) gnome-btdownload for instance
[04:01] <sistpoty|uni> hi folks
[04:06] <jikanter> hello
[04:17] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:18] <gpocentek> hello bddebian 
[04:18] <bddebian> Heya gpocentek
[04:21] <sistpoty|uni> hi bddebian 
[04:21] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|uni
[04:21] <sistpoty|uni> hi gpocentek as well ;)
[04:22] <gpocentek> hello sistpoty|uni :)
[04:23] <siretart> slomo: what do you think about http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2006/12/20/lets-hear-the-communitys-voice-the-faad-2-5-licensing-issue?
[04:23] <siretart> hey sistpoty|uni & bddebian!
[04:24] <bddebian> Hi siretart
[04:24] <sistpoty|uni> hi siretart 
[04:26] <siretart> slomo: practically, this could mean that we have to remove all faad code from ubuntu because of licencing problems
[04:26] <bddebian> w00t
[04:44] <slomo> siretart: our version does not have this license problems
[04:44] <slomo> siretart: this was exactly the reason why we have this cvs snapshot, it's the last real GPL version of it
[04:45] <slomo> siretart: debian has 2.5 and i already filed a serious bug on it (because debian/copyright says plain GPL)
[04:46] <siretart> slomo: okay. thanks for clarification
[04:47] <slomo_> siretart: our version does not have this license problems
[04:47] <slomo_> siretart: this was exactly the reason why we have this cvs snapshot, it's the last real GPL version of it
[04:47] <slomo_> siretart: debian has 2.5 and i already filed a serious bug on it (because debian/copyright says plain GPL)
[04:47] <slomo_> siretart: and i also contacted ahead and the developer in the past with no answer
[04:48] <siretart> slomo: okay. thanks for clarification
[04:49] <siretart> (I got your first lines, btw ;)
[04:49] <slomo_> ok, sorry for repeating then :)
[04:49] <siretart> btw, xine-lib 1.1.3 package restructured is ready for me
[04:49] <siretart> brb
[04:50] <cypher1_> if i assume all the outstanding merge bugs raised will be reviewed and uploaded by tomorow, will i be correct ?
[04:54] <bddebian> cypher1_: One can never assume anything :)
[04:56] <cypher1_> bddebian: sorry i am too confused with the tomorrow's deadline..if the merges are not uploaded by tomorrow does that mean feisty herd 2 or feisty will not have the merge ?
[04:56] <gpocentek> hum, does this mean something to someone: "Error: Package: and Architecture: do not alternate in debian/control" ?
[04:56] <gpocentek> (http://librarian.launchpad.net/5490699/buildlog_ubuntu-feisty-i386.sim_0.9.4.1%7E2-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
[04:59] <tepsipakki> I have checkinstall merge ready
[04:59] <tepsipakki> stevenk seems to be asleep
[05:00] <bddebian> cypher1: We are all confused :)
[05:01] <tepsipakki> bddebian: hi, I was looking at merging beneath-a-steel-sky a while ago. seems straightforward to do, only the .desktop-file remains as diff
[05:02] <tepsipakki> and filed a bug on debian
[05:02] <tepsipakki> with a link to the patch
[05:02] <herzi> dholbach: ping
[05:03] <tepsipakki> same for survex
[05:03] <dholbach> herzi: pong
[05:04] <herzi> dholbach: i just wanted to bug you about the library... :-)
[05:05] <dholbach> that's nice of you :)
[05:13] <SlimG> does anyone have a link to a good "howto create a man page" tutorial
[05:14] <bddebian> apt-get install help2man ;-)
[05:14] <bddebian> tepsipakki: Sounds good, thanks
[05:16] <SlimG> bddebian: thought you were joking, but I see there's actually a help2man :) hehe
[05:16] <SlimG> bddebian: thanx!
[05:16] <tepsipakki> bddebian: perhaps they could be merged now and synced later when debian adds the .desktop-files
[05:16] <tepsipakki> bddebian: I'll do that now
[05:28] <tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/ubuntu/checkinstall_1.6.1-1ubuntu1.dsc
[05:28] <tepsipakki> there, any sponsors available?-)
[05:30] <tepsipakki> source.changes in the same directory
[05:40] <ScottK> I've just made another upload of pyspf http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3833 that corrects all the lintian errors.  There are warnings that remain.  I'd appreciate advice on if they are sigificant or how to fix them.
[05:41] <Adri2000> tepsipakki: the .changes is not needed, since the sponsor will recreate it with his own gpg key (authorized to upload), and if you were motu (authorized to upload with your gpg key), it would dangerous because every one could upload the package with the signed .changes
[05:42] <Adri2000> s/would dangerous/would be dangerous/
[05:43] <tepsipakki> is that URL enough now, or should I file bugs etc?
[05:43] <Adri2000> tepsipakki: it's enough if a motu wants to upload it now
[05:43] <tepsipakki> ok
[05:44] <tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/ubuntu/beneath-a-steel-sky_0.0372-3ubuntu1.dsc
[05:44] <tepsipakki> http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/ubuntu/survex_1.0.39-1ubuntu1.dsc
[05:44] <tepsipakki> b-a-s-s is without the orig.tar.gz since it is too big..
[05:45] <tepsipakki> I have to run, but if there are problems with those, let me know ->
[05:45] <Adri2000> tepsipakki: for merges I usually provide only a debdiff between the last debian version and the merged version, I don't know what motu prefer
[05:46] <Adri2000> ScottK: the package was in debian ?
[05:47] <bddebian> tepsipakki: I'm checking checkinstall now
[05:47] <tepsipakki> I'll add debdiff's to the same dir now
[05:47] <Adri2000> ScottK: ok, it's just a new upstream release
[05:48] <Adri2000> ScottK: "* the version should be 2.0.1-0ubuntu1 "
[05:50] <tepsipakki> bddebian: hrm, there are some po-changes in checkinstall
[05:50] <tepsipakki> I don't know how to handle them
[05:50] <tepsipakki> but debdiffs in place, seeya ->
[05:50] <ScottK> OK.  I'll put the version back to 2.0.1-0ubuntu1.
[05:51] <ScottK> Any other suggestions?
[05:51] <Adri2000> yes
[05:51] <Adri2000> "* Non-maintainer update - NMU" < NMU is only for debian
[05:52] <ScottK> OK.  I'll take that out too.
[05:52] <Adri2000> ScottK: so you can remove this line, and don't care of the lintian warning
[05:52] <ScottK> Thanks.
[05:53] <Adri2000> python, python-dev, python-all-dev < I believe you have to choose between one of these depencies
[05:53] <Adri2000> dependencies*
[05:53] <ScottK> OK.
[05:56] <Adri2000> huhu... "between one of these dependencies" means nothing, but you have understood :p
[05:57] <Adri2000> I would say the right one is python-all-dev
[05:57] <ScottK> Thanks.  I just looked and you are right.  python-all-dev had both python and python-dev in it.
[05:58] <ScottK> I've got those changes made.
[05:58] <neutrinomass> can somebody please take a look at bug 70367 ? It includes a patch for gdk-imlib that fixes bugs in other programs as well 
[05:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70367 in imlib "imlib1 does not correctly handle 32-bit visuals" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70367
[05:58] <ScottK> Anything else?
[05:59] <ScottK> If not, I'll build it again and upload it...
[05:59] <Adri2000> you can :)
[06:00] <ScottK> Thanks.
[06:13] <dholbach> so how's the REVU day looking up until now?
[06:15] <bddebian> dholbach: You tell us.. ;-P
[06:16] <dholbach> well, *I*'d like to know :-)
[06:17] <bddebian> I've been trying but failing miserably as usual :)
[06:18] <bddebian> Gah, I hate this debdiff crap for merges.  Do any of you actually use these?
[06:22] <ScottK> Adri2000 - Thanks again.  The revised (again) pyspf is uploaded - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3837 - I'd appreciate another look when you have a moment.
[06:29] <Adri2000> ScottK: hmm your changelog has a problem, a blank line is missing before the name and date line, did you manage to build the package with such a changelog ?
[06:30] <ScottK> I did.
[06:30] <ScottK> I'll go fix that.
[06:31] <ScottK> Sorry for the trivial disturbance.
[06:31] <ScottK> Be back in a few...
[06:32] <Adri2000> ScottK: and after that you need to find a motu to comment on revu ;)
[06:32] <dholbach> bddebian: no, not a policy, although I think that everybody's happier if we don't have to merge them every time
[06:32] <ScottK> Thanks again for the help.
[06:33] <bddebian> dholbach: I mean like: Bug #47361
[06:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47361 in grpn "grpn ships no .desktop" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47361
[06:33] <bddebian> Reject them?  Push upstream, what?
[06:34] <dholbach> it's the same as with every other fix
[06:36] <bddebian> How so?
[06:37] <rmjb> Hello all
[06:38] <bddebian> Hello rmjb
[06:38] <rmjb> so far I've been doing merges where I iron out diffs in files in the debian directory
[06:38] <rmjb> but there are other kinds that I pass over
[06:38] <rmjb> one is this: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/afbinit/REPORT
[06:38] <rmjb> do I just test that the package builds and request a merge?
[06:39] <rmjb> hey bddebian
[06:40] <bddebian> rmjb: I would say not.  There may be code changes that you drop that the package will still build but will be "wrong"
[06:40] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[06:40] <LaserJock> hi
[06:40] <LaserJock> has REVU day started?
[06:40] <rmjb> so I need to.. look at the old ubuntu package, the new debian package and the patch file mentioned in the report before I make a decision?
[06:41] <bddebian> LaserJock: Was it today or tomorrow?
[06:41] <bddebian> rmjb: Yes
[06:41] <Adri2000> LaserJock: dayS, yes :)
[06:41] <rmjb> another question, the merge deadline that's today, that's for uni/muliverse also?
[06:42] <LaserJock> ok, I had a suggestion
[06:42] <LaserJock> we need to track how many packages we actually upload during the REVU days
[06:42] <LaserJock> so what if the MOTUs emailed the list after the uploaded a package?
[06:44] <ScottK> pysfp is updated - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3838 - I believe it is ready for a MOTU REVU...
[06:44] <ScottK> pysfp/pyspf
[06:45] <sistpoty|uni> hi LaserJock
[06:45] <LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: hi
[06:45] <rmjb> what I'm asking is... should I rush to do merges now since the deadline is in about 6 hours, or should I work on my packages for REVU?
[06:46] <rmjb> ... or do my christmas cleaning :(
[06:46] <LaserJock> the deadline for merges doesn't apply for Universe
[06:47] <LaserJock> sistpoty|uni: what do you think about my idea?
[06:47] <rmjb> LaserJock: thanks
[06:47] <Burgwork> imbrandon: we seem to be missing each other. Around right now?
[06:47] <sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: have been thinking about that as well...
[06:47] <sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: sounds good :)
[06:48] <sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: maybe we could make a merge sprint somewhen after revu days :)
[06:48] <LaserJock> well, it's the only thing I could thing of at the time, it would really tough to go through the NEW queue and figure it out afterwards
[06:48] <LaserJock> *would be
[06:48] <Adri2000> anyone to upload a small merge?
[06:49] <LaserJock> I'm going to track REVU updates and comments via email
[06:49] <LaserJock> but the important stat is actual uploads
[06:49] <sistpoty|uni> LaserJock: cool, thx!
[06:49] <sistpoty|uni> bddebian: please review all packages :P
[06:51] <bddebian> Sure, have that done in an hour or so ;-P
[06:52] <sistpoty|uni> hehe
[06:52] <Adri2000> merge upload...? no one?
[06:52] <sistpoty|uni> sorry /me can't upload from university
[06:53] <bddebian> Adri2000: Where?
[06:54] <Adri2000> bddebian: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/toupload/debian-reference_1.09-4ubuntu1.debdiff debdiff from 1.09-4 and I'm building the package right now
[06:57] <Adri2000> bddebian: I hope you haven't upload it yet, FTBFS :)
[06:57] <Adri2000> uploaded
[06:57] <bddebian> Haven't even looked at it yet :)
[06:59] <cypherbios> Please, I need someone to take an look at my simple package... If someone can leave some comment, I'll be grateful -http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748-
[06:59] <cypherbios> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3748 :)
[07:00] <palski> Could somebody take a look at bug #65274, gnome-hearts should be re-merged from debian, without it gnome-hearts is completely useless
[07:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65274 in gnome-hearts "Hearts crashes on startup" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/65274
[07:03] <bddebian> OK damnit, so what's the priority today, Merges, Bugs, or REVU?  And don't say All Of The Above ;-P
[07:04] <rmjb> bddebian: that was my question :)
[07:09] <Adri2000> bddebian: heh... debian-reference needs a new B-D, and this B-D FailedTBFS...
[07:09] <Adri2000> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/274657
[07:11] <Adri2000> hmm, seems to be a buildd issue
[07:11] <Adri2000> any opinion?
[07:12] <Adri2000> "Build killed with signal 15 after 150 minutes of inactivity"
[07:17] <No1Viking> I want to update BIOS in my computer and need to make a startdisk for it. How do I do that?
[07:17] <Q-FUNK> would anyone happen to know the right gconftools-2 stanza to change the global GTK2 default theme?
[07:18] <bddebian> Adri2000: No clue here, sorry
[07:29] <sistpoty|uni> cya later
[07:43] <Burgwork> CUPs development is lead by fucking monkeys
[07:43] <Burgwork> http://www.cups.org/str.php?L1869
[07:45] <LaserJock> Burgwork: I have no idea what that means
[07:46] <Burgwork> basically, the cups developer is telling a user that they are not going to make CUPS print buggy documents
[07:46] <Burgwork> a "bend over and take it" statement
[07:46] <bddebian> hehe
[07:47] <Burgwork> and this just bit one of our larger customers and now I get to tell them that "sorry, there is nothing we can do"
[07:49] <imbrandon> Burgwork, pong
[07:49] <imbrandon> heh
[07:50] <Burgwork> imbrandon: can I play with your ebox setup?
[07:50] <imbrandon> ahh yea , lemme turn back on the vm, one sec
[07:50] <imbrandon> :)
[07:57] <imbrandon> ugh
[07:57] <imbrandon> one minute
[07:59] <rmjb> I've created 3 .install files in my debian directory, one for the binary and 2 for the library (1 is a -dev)
[07:59] <rmjb> I
[07:59] <rmjb> I'm using cdbs, but it complains:
[08:00] <rmjb> dh_install -peasypmp  
[08:00] <rmjb> cp: cannot stat `./usr/bin': No such file or directory
[08:00] <rmjb> do I have to indicate it's using debian/tmp?
[08:01] <LaserJock> are you sure it's trying to install it to the right place?
[08:02] <LaserJock> like does DESTDIR need to be set or something
[08:02] <rmjb> well... I had the source pkg build one binary pkg and dholbach advised I split it out, so i've been referenceing the old binary package when writing my .install files
[08:02] <rmjb> I don't know about DESTDIR
[08:04] <rmjb> okay from the build log it seems to be building in debian/tmp, from what i've been reading if debian/compat is 5 it should build in debian/<package> ?
[08:04] <LaserJock> rmjb: it built find before the split?
[08:05] <rmjb> it seems so the error happens at the very end
[08:07] <rmjb> and yes, before I created the .install files and added new sections to debian/control it built fine
[08:07] <LaserJock> rmjb: so before you split the packages there was no problem
[08:07] <LaserJock> ok
[08:07] <LaserJock> and what about debian/dirs
[08:07] <LaserJock> is that all good? I suppose so
[08:07] <tepsipakki> bddebian: thanks for uploading b-a-s-s and checkinstall :)
[08:07] <rmjb> not there
[08:08] <bddebian> tepsipakki: NP
[08:08] <rmjb> ls debian/
[08:08] <rmjb> changelog  control    easypmp.install     libpmp.install
[08:08] <rmjb> compat     copyright  libpmp-dev.install  rules
[08:08] <LaserJock> rmjb: have you looked at another CDBS package that is split, perhaps a KDE package
[08:08] <rmjb> anyone know of one? I'd be happy to
[08:08] <LaserJock> I don't know CDBS well enough to know how it handles multiple binaries
[08:09] <rmjb> imbrandon: know of any multi-binary source packages that use cdbs?
[08:10] <Lure> rmjb: kde-guidance
[08:10] <Lure> rmjb: kde-guidance-powermanager was additional binary package added for edgy
[08:11] <rmjb> thanks LaserJock, will take a look and learn
[08:11] <Lure> rmjb: it is python, so it might not be best example
[08:11] <rmjb> I mean Lure :P
[08:12] <imbrandon> rmjb, amarok does ( dunno if thtas a good example )
[08:12] <bddebian> amarok is a pig :)
[08:12] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:17] <kallewoof> Noone up for reviewing? *headscratch* I hate bugging people like this, but oh well. I'll ask again tomorrow. :P
[08:17] <bddebian> kallewoof: We're trying
[08:18] <kallewoof> bddebian: I fully understand, and in no way insinuate that you're doing a poor job at it. I just hate bugging people. It's a weakness, one might say. :)
[08:19] <bddebian> kallewoof: No, it's OK, we should be doing better at keeping up with REVU :-(
[08:20] <rmjb> is there a way to build a package in a more interactive manner than to just hand the dsc over to pbuilder? I'm thinking this may help in a LOT of situations
[08:22] <LaserJock> rmjb: well, you can make a temp copy and run each rule in debian/rules manually
[08:22] <LaserJock> but you need the build deps so you might want to do it in a chroot or something
[08:22] <imbrandon> yea chroot + normal debuild , would be thew most interactive
[08:23] <imbrandon> s/thew/the/
[08:24] <kallewoof> bddebian: If I had any idea what I'm doing, I might try to join and help out. :) Perhaps once I do I'll look into it.
[08:24] <imbrandon> cory, i cant seem to get a ebox login past the firewall, i'm gonna have go IM one of the guys in implmentations to poke me a hole in the corp firewall
[08:24] <imbrandon> Burgwork, ^^
[08:24] <imbrandon> give me just a few
[08:24] <Burgwork> imbrandon: sounds good
[08:32] <plugwash> isn't the normal/easy way to build a package to use dpkg-source to extract it and then change to the extracted dir and run dpkg-buildpackage?
[08:33] <plugwash> i thought pbuilder was primerally for making a final test that you haven't missed any deps before handing it to the autobuilders
[08:36] <LaserJock> plugwash: I never build with dpkg-buildpackage
[08:36] <LaserJock> it tends to leave build cruft in your source tree and you have to have the build deps
[08:37] <LaserJock> I use pbuilder for every build
[08:37] <LaserJock> but maybe that's just me
[08:37] <imbrandon> plugwash, not really that measn you have to install alot of build deps
[08:37] <imbrandon> LaserJock, as do i
[08:37] <LaserJock> naughty boy
[08:38] <LaserJock> ;-)
[08:38] <bddebian> :)
[08:38] <plugwash> isn't pbuilder quite a slow method of building?
[08:38] <LaserJock> plugwash: not really if you have a decent machine
[08:38] <LaserJock> on a good machine it takes 5-10 sec. to unpack the tarball
[08:39] <rmjb> to test small changes to a package pbuilder is a little inconvinient
[08:39] <bddebian> plugwash: It is if you keep having to test small changes.  pbuild fail, make change, build, pbuild, rinse, repeat ;-P
[08:39] <rmjb> especially ones that have to install over 10 build-deps every time
[08:39] <LaserJock> then installing the build deps takes a bit, but it does have an apt cahce
[08:39] <imbrandon> to install 1000 build deps for a package i will never build again for 3 months is also rmjb 
[08:39] <imbrandon> :)
[08:39] <LaserJock> well, I do it all the time
[08:40] <LaserJock> but that's me I guess
[08:40] <LaserJock> maybe that's why I'm so slow :-)
[08:40] <rmjb> pbuilder is how I've been doing it till now... but I want something more flexable
[08:40] <imbrandon> chroot 
[08:40] <LaserJock> sbuild+LVM snapshot is supposed to be the best
[08:40] <imbrandon> and full debuild
[08:40] <rmjb> the dpkg-buildpackage looks promising, and chroot
[08:41] <imbrandon> s/dpkg-buildpackage/debuild/ :)
[08:41] <plugwash> imbrandon well yeah i guess pbuilder could make more sense for motu type work rather than primary package maintaince work
[08:41] <LaserJock> I don't like having to keep up with a chroot
[08:42] <LaserJock> I just use pbuilder to keep things clean
[08:42] <LaserJock> it's so easy to set up and maintain
[08:42] <LaserJock> saves space
[08:42] <LaserJock> etc.
[08:42] <jdong> what's the difference between using debuild and dpkg-buildpackage?
[08:43] <jdong> the net result looks pretty identical to my untrained eyes ;-)
[08:43] <LaserJock> debuild is just a wrapper
[08:43] <imbrandon> result is the same, just longer to get there 
[08:43] <LaserJock> it *is* dpkg-buildpackage
[08:43] <bddebian> They are pretty much the same
[08:43] <LaserJock> it's just dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[08:43] <imbrandon> right ,less typing
[08:43] <LaserJock> and I think it adds lintian and/or signing
[08:44] <imbrandon> signing
[08:44] <imbrandon> unless -us -uc
[08:44] <LaserJock> I don't use dpkg-buildpackage either (debuild -S FTW) :-)
[08:44] <imbrandon> :)
[08:44] <imbrandon> debuild -S -sd or debuild -S or debuild -S -sa
[08:44] <imbrandon> depending on what i'm doing
[08:44] <rmjb> debuild does not work well with gpg agents
[08:45] <rmjb> I rather plain dpkg-buildpackage
[08:45] <imbrandon> rmjb, works fine with gpg-agent
[08:45] <imbrandon> i use it almost daily
[08:45] <LaserJock> I've never had a problem with it either
[08:46] <rmjb> when I use dpkg-bu... I get a nice seahorse window for my passphrase and it caches it for 5 mins
[08:46] <rmjb> handy for the 2nd signing
[08:46] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't use a gpg-agent so I guess that's why I dont' have a problem with it :-)
[08:46] <rmjb> when I use debuild it fails after asking for my passphrase... I always have to remove the use-agent line from gpg.conf
[08:47] <imbrandon> rmjb, i would file a bug, it should work perfectly
[08:47] <imbrandon> infact its the same thing
[08:47] <imbrandon> debuild just fills in some flags so you dont have to type them every time
[08:47] <rmjb> I was told it was a known bug... I think jdong was telling me it's because dpkg-bui... runs as me and can connect to my agent but debuild runs as root...
[08:47] <rmjb> or something along those lines
[08:48] <imbrandon> i dont run debuild as root, but then again i dont sudo apt-get source .... like alot of people sooo
[08:48] <LaserJock> bah
[08:48] <rmjb> I just apt-get source too... no sudo
[08:49] <imbrandon> your messing with a strange animal then if something is runnign as root, nothing i run in the build process is run as root
[08:49] <imbrandon> ( except inside the pbuilder )
[08:49] <bddebian> Damn, I lost my sessions.  Can someone compare versions 1.0.39ubuntu1 and 1.0.39-1ubuntu1 for me quick?
[08:50] <plugwash> imbrandon afaict root in a chroot is still root and pbuilder is just a chroot wrapper
[08:51] <imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0.39ubuntu1 gt 1.0.39-1ubuntu1 && echo yes
[08:51] <imbrandon> yes
[08:51] <imbrandon> bddebian, ^^
[08:51] <imbrandon> brandon@voyager:~$
[08:51] <imbrandon> plugwash, i know
[08:51] <bddebian> Damn I was afraid of that, thanks imbrandon
[08:51] <imbrandon> i mean uptill that point
[08:51] <imbrandon> anyhow brb
[08:58] <jdong> rmjb: it's because debuild runs debsign/gpg as fakeroot
[08:58] <rmjb> ri-ight... that's what you said
[08:59] <jdong> and thus gpg can't authenticate to the agent running as your user
[08:59] <LaserJock> jdong: do you know if a bug is filed in Debian for that?
[08:59] <jdong> LaserJock: I filed one in GNATS upstream
[08:59] <jdong> for gnupg
[08:59] <jdong> it's been fixed in the latest gnupg releases
[08:59] <jdong> which is the version in Feisty
[09:00] <LaserJock> oh, it's a gnupg issue
[09:00] <jdong> right
[09:00] <jdong> a LOG_WARNING was a LOG_ERROR
[09:00] <jdong> which caused a non-zero retcode
[09:00] <LaserJock> ah
[09:02] <ajmitch> morning
[09:02] <LaserJock> hi ajmitch 
[09:02] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[09:03] <rmjb> g'morning ajmitch
[09:16] <keescook> imbrandon: what's the origin of your system's "voyager" name?
[09:19] <LaserJock> keescook: he's a Trekie ;-)
[09:19] <jdong> keescook: star trek, I'd expect
[09:20] <jdong> my neighbor has all trek names for his computers and users
[09:20] <bddebian> Or maybe a NASA freak :)
[09:20] <jdong> and ESSID's
[09:20] <jdong> it's freakin annoying trying to use his computers ;-)
[09:20] <keescook> I was figuring either Trek or NASA; both are cool.
[09:20] <keescook> I'm such a Voyager geek; I've actually got a voyager graphic novel on my livingroom table ATM.  :P
[09:21] <jdong> :)
[09:21] <jdong> and wow, look at that, x264 in 64-bit actually does encode a tad faster than 32-bit :D
[09:21] <jdong> that's a first ;-)
[09:35] <siretart> heyho, jdong and keescook 
[09:35] <jdong> greetings, siretart
[09:35] <keescook> hiya siretart
[09:36] <siretart> keescook: say, are you stand-in for pitti regarding promotions for main?
[09:36] <jdong> why do I feel a -security vs -backports thing coming on?
[09:36] <jdong> lol
[09:36] <keescook> siretart: I haven't officially done any MIRs yet, but I'd be happy to look stuff over
[09:36] <chantra> hi guys
[09:37] <chantra> how should I asked to a newer upstream release to be integrated to feisty
[09:37] <chantra> the actual debian unstable been lower
[09:37] <chantra> I've repack the newer version and I've the debdiff ready
[09:37] <LaserJock> package it and get a MOTU to sponsor the upload
[09:38] <chantra> cheers LaserJock 
[09:38] <chantra> gonna do this staight away
[09:38] <chantra> and how could I make it integrated back into debian unstable?
[09:38] <chantra> shall I just send an email to the maintenar?
[09:39] <siretart> chantra: are you willing to take over responsibility for the package in debian?
[09:39] <chantra> siretart: not really, don't have a running debian at the moment
[09:40] <chantra> but I'm willing to ease debian maintener job though :)
[09:40] <siretart> chantra: then the first step is finding someone who is willing to do
[09:40] <LaserJock> chantra: I'd just send a patch to the maintainer
[09:41] <chantra> LaserJock: doesn't debdiff behave as a patch?
[09:41] <LaserJock> yeah, although with new upstream releases a debdiff isn't as nice as a patch to debian/
[09:43] <chantra> okie dokie, gonna patch it
[09:44] <siretart> keescook: if you have some spare time, it would be great if you could have a short look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionFFmpeg and tell me if I've forgotten something obvious or important
[09:44] <siretart> so that we don't loose more time than necessary
[09:45] <keescook> siretart: sure, I'll take a look
[09:45] <siretart> thanks!
[09:47] <cypher1> ogra, hi are you there ?
[09:48] <LaserJock> he's in a meeting at the moment
[09:48] <cypher1> LaserJock, ok thanks.. any idea when he will be expected back
[09:48] <keescook> siretart: I don't see any technical problems with the MIR; I'd echo jdong's worries though.  I suspect ffmpeg's MIR will rest more on legal than technical grounds.  :(
[09:48] <LaserJock> well, he's sort of around if it's urgent
[09:48] <LaserJock> but I think he has another meeting after the current one
[09:49] <LaserJock> so perhaps email might be better
[09:49] <jdong> yeah, I really really really wish that ffmpeg in its current state can be default on Ubuntu :)
[09:49] <jdong> but looking around at the other North American distros
[09:49] <cypher1> LaserJock, no problem i can check with him later so i will mail or wait for him to free.. thank you :)
[09:49] <jdong> our current policy is already very very generous to patented technology
[09:49] <ScottK> I'm new here.  Is the standard approach to request REVU once and then wait (assuming people read the scrollback) or to ask periodically (what's considered rude)?
[09:52] <siretart> keescook: well, it blocks xine-lib
[09:53] <keescook> siretart: yeah, I totally understand.
[09:53] <siretart> keescook: who can I poke about the legal stuff?
[09:53] <siretart> obviously not the TB :/
[09:53] <keescook> I'm actually not sure; I'd ask pitti first
[09:54] <LaserJock> siretart: debian-legal
[09:54] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:54] <keescook> heh
[09:54] <siretart> LaserJock: it is good enough for debian/main, so why not for ubuntu/main?
[09:54] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, dont poke too often. but if nobody responds for some time I suppose it's ok
[09:55] <ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3838
[09:55] <LaserJock> I think I need to write another email about REVU Day
[09:55] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, you're a python wiz now, fix diacanavas2 for me will ya? :)
[09:56] <LaserJock> umm, let me think ...... no
[09:56] <bddebian> :'-(
[09:57] <bddebian> I get no love anymoer
[09:57] <bddebian> anymore even..
[09:57] <siretart> :)
[09:57] <bddebian> :-)
[09:58] <LaserJock> bddebian: sorry dude, this is the last day I have to get research done and get ready for Christmas vacation
[09:59] <sistpoty> hi folks
[09:59] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[10:00] <sistpoty> hi bddebian: 
[10:00] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[10:00] <sistpoty> where's the q&a-session to take place? #ubuntu-classroom or #ubuntu-motu-school?
[10:01] <sistpoty> -classroom, ah...
[10:01] <sistpoty> everyone who'd also like to help out with the q&a-session please join #ubuntu-classroom, thanks.
[10:02] <bddebian> What's the q&a session about?
[10:02] <sistpoty> bddebian: people ask questions, we give answers ;)
[10:02] <bddebian> Gahh..  What kind of questions
[10:03] <sistpoty> I don't know... *g*
[10:03] <sistpoty> I guess packaging related
[10:03] <jdong> like, when will my backports be processed?
[10:03] <jdong> ;-)
[10:03] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:03] <siretart> like 'when will my package finally be revu'ed'?
[10:03] <siretart> :)
[10:03] <bddebian> heh
[10:03] <jdong> yeah
[10:03] <jdong> when will binary NEW be cleared?
[10:03] <jdong> when will Azureus be fixed?
[10:03] <sistpoty> please ask on -classroom... :P
[10:04] <jdong> *cough* Fujitsu *cough*
[10:04] <bddebian> Hmm, maybe I should ask if anyone besides sistpoty is going to look at libparagui? ;-P
[10:04] <sistpoty> hehe
[10:06] <bddebian> Gah, didn't someone already do coolmail?
[10:06] <sistpoty> dholbach did to motu-ml
[10:22] <LaserJock> anybody get my second email to -motu?
[10:23] <ajmitch> LaserJock: about what?
[10:23] <ajmitch> handling revu day requests?
[10:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:23] <LaserJock> I assume that's a yes
[10:23] <sebest> hello, i'm looking for someone to review my package, it's missing one vote
[10:24] <sebest> it's innotop (a great tool to monitor mysql server from cli) , if someone is interested: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3834
[10:24] <ajmitch> sounds useful
[10:25] <bhale> ugh
[10:25] <ajmitch> hello bhale 
[10:25] <bhale> hey there
[10:25] <sebest> ajmitch: http://xaprb.com/blog/2006/07/02/innotop-mysql-innodb-monitor/ ;)
[10:25] <sistpoty> hi bhale
[10:32] <Adri2000> LaserJock: what's the url of the webpages with a lot of infos on the packages? I don't remember...
[10:33] <Adri2000> ah should be http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/
[10:35] <geser> Adri2000: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/universe.html
[10:35] <Adri2000> ah yeah, who wrote this tool?
[10:35] <geser> and http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motutodo/multiverse.html
[10:35] <LaserJock> Adri2000: lucas wrote multidistrotools, which we've patched slightly
[10:35] <LaserJock> Adri2000: and I wrote some stuff to put it all together, etc.
[10:36] <Adri2000> ok
[10:39] <lucas> LaserJock: there's a pkg-multidistrotools project on alioth
[10:39] <lucas> please join if you are interested in working on this stuff
[10:40] <LaserJock> ah, cool
[10:41] <LaserJock> Fujitsu patched it to show difference between outdated and outdated with local changes
[10:55] <lucas> ah nice
[10:59] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ping
[10:59] <sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: I do have some ideas about how the motu council to make new motus
[11:00] <sistpoty> ajmitch: s.th. like small tasks for the applicant, like review a package or answer a few simple packaging related questions... nothing to tough so
[11:00] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yessir?
[11:00] <LaserJock> ajmitch: did you happen to upload that SRU for me?
[11:00] <ajmitch> no, I didn't
[11:00] <sistpoty> ajmitch: which could then form an opinion about technical skills... and then there would be community skills, pretty much determined by what's there in the spec already
[11:00] <ajmitch> I happened to have some apt-proxy weirdness at the time
[11:00] <sistpoty> what do you think?
[11:00] <ajmitch> hi crimsun 
[11:01] <sistpoty> hi crimsun
[11:01] <crimsun> hi ajmitch, sistpoty 
[11:01] <ajmitch> sistpoty: sure, it's a good idea to set down some expectations
[11:01] <LaserJock> hi crimsun 
[11:01] <crimsun> hi LaserJock 
[11:01] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I don't think we should turn it into a obstacle course, but we should at least have some expectations
[11:01] <crimsun> (I'm at McCarran atm)
[11:02] <LaserJock> ah
[11:02] <sistpoty> LaserJock: that's why I wrote nothing too tough... 
[11:02] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I'll look at uploading it now
[11:02] <LaserJock> ajmitch: thanks dude
[11:02] <LaserJock> I'm leaving early tomorrow morning for vacation and want to wrap up a few things before I go
[11:02] <sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe also s.th. like "show us some packaging work which you are personally really proud of"
[11:03] <LaserJock> sistpoty: but shouldn't we already be familiar with the applicants work?
[11:03] <sistpoty> LaserJock: hm... I guess the sponsors are, but I don't know if the council can track all of the hopefules
[11:03] <crimsun> how about having them prepare (prior) some reviews on revu?
[11:04] <sistpoty> yay, sounds like a good idea
[11:04] <crimsun> (I almost said give a revu live, but that would probably be daunting)
[11:04] <LaserJock> perhaps we could have basic application questions as a template for their wiki page
[11:04] <ajmitch> ooh, live dissection
[11:04] <LaserJock> uggg,
[11:04] <ajmitch> yay, debian NM!
[11:04] <ajmitch> we need something though
[11:05] <sistpoty> crimsun... hm.. I wouldn't really do some reviewing "live", because in many motu situation, you don't need to know everything off hand, as long as you're prudent enough to ask the right ppl.
[11:05] <LaserJock> well, but that could be shown in a live review too
[11:05] <LaserJock> but I think that's a little much
[11:05] <crimsun> sistpoty: right, that's why I favor a history of reviews on revu
[11:06] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, but this might also be quite time consuming for the council, wouldn't it?
[11:06] <LaserJock> ok, so what if a person applies for MOTUship
[11:06] <sistpoty> crimsun: exactly
[11:06] <LaserJock> is given REVU review rights for 2 weeks
[11:06] <LaserJock> and is given whatever else we want
[11:06] <LaserJock> and then after 2 weeks the Council votes
[11:06] <sistpoty> LaserJock: sounds like a good plan
[11:07] <crimsun> 2 weeks or the applicant's comfort, whichever is longer
[11:07] <crimsun> we could cap it at a month
[11:07] <sistpoty> LaserJock: but the applicant should have been already nominated for motu-ship by a mentor/sponsor (/me reads spec fast again), so that we won't grant that to random ppll
[11:08] <LaserJock> so a MOTU would nominate a Hopeful for review
[11:08] <sistpoty> hm... or sponsor comments... I guess that should count as well
[11:08] <LaserJock> then they have something like 2 weeks to a month to do some reviewing and undergo scrutiny
[11:09] <sistpoty> also we should make sure that we don't create a process that will take too long ;)
[11:09] <LaserJock> then Council votes
[11:09] <ajmitch> LaserJock: why should doing reviews be part of becoming a MOTU?
[11:09] <LaserJock> because I think that's where you can learn a lot about peoples knowledge
[11:09] <sistpoty> ajmitch: it tells a little bit about the technical skills of the motu#?
[11:10] <LaserJock> and I think it also helps people get used to doing REVUs
[11:10] <imbrandon> hrm 
[11:10] <sistpoty> hi imbrandon
[11:10] <imbrandon> i dont like that idea
[11:10] <imbrandon> heya
[11:10] <ajmitch> for every review they do, you're going to have to have someone watching & following up
[11:10] <ajmitch> hey imbrandon 
[11:10] <imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
[11:10] <imbrandon> sorry guys been watching and lurking hehe
[11:10] <sistpoty> ajmitch: right... 
[11:10] <LaserJock> ajmitch: well, my point would be that by the time they are nominated for MOTUship they should be pretty ok to leave alone
[11:10] <ajmitch> it raises the bar a bit for required knowledge, which isn't necessarily bad
[11:11] <imbrandon> LaserJock, exactly, maybe before but not after
[11:11] <sistpoty> hm... as written before, we really should make sure that we don't create an impassable wall or too long process to become a motu, but we could as well try to ensure a little bit technical knowledge
[11:11] <imbrandon> after one has motu we /should/ feel confrotable giving them the keys to the archive
[11:11] <imbrandon> if not the processes is wrong, not the applicant
[11:11] <LaserJock> no, I'm saying giving them keys to REVU reviewing
[11:12] <LaserJock> which I think has a lower bar
[11:12] <sistpoty> imbrandon: good point
[11:12] <crimsun> I'm still thinking that anyone should be able to review on revu
[11:12] <LaserJock> ajmitch: I agree
[11:12] <imbrandon> ajmitch, i agree
[11:12] <imbrandon> also
[11:12] <LaserJock> that's why I think it should be a part of the MOTU process
[11:12] <sistpoty> +1
[11:12] <sistpoty> :)
[11:13] <imbrandon> LaserJock, not nessesarly , not every motu will revu stuff
[11:13] <sistpoty> well, I'm not that convinced any longer, whether that needs to be an essential part
[11:13] <LaserJock> I'm not convinced either way
[11:13] <imbrandon> i kinda akin that to a ham having to learn moris code if it will never be used
[11:13] <sistpoty> but I guess we should have some means to ensure the tech skills
[11:13] <LaserJock> imbrandon: but I'm trying to MOTUs to do reviews, that's the whole point
[11:13] <crimsun> when an applicant goes before MC, (s)he should be able to say, I packaged this, which is in the archive now -or- I helped review on revu these packages
[11:13] <sistpoty> it could be *one* possible way for an applicant to show tech skills, out of several to pick from
[11:13] <imbrandon> yes some measn, i dont think revu is that way though imho
[11:14] <imbrandon> crimsun, right
[11:14] <bddebian> crimsun is back already?
[11:14] <imbrandon> heh
[11:14] <LaserJock> crimsun: that's why I think we should give them REVU review rights, and some other stuff to do/show
[11:14] <crimsun> I'm suffering from horribly jittery wifi at McCarran Int'l Airport
[11:14] <bddebian> Ugh
[11:15] <LaserJock> REVU certainly shouldn't be the *only* criterion
[11:15] <imbrandon> ahh crimsun 
[11:15] <LaserJock> but I think it could be a good one
[11:15] <LaserJock> as it would promote REVU
[11:15] <crimsun> what are some other tech vectors?
[11:15] <bddebian> Yes, let's please get more crap in the archive for us to maintain ;-P
[11:15] <imbrandon> i'm suffering of a dual core new computer with only XP on it :(
[11:15] <LaserJock> obviously packaging from scratch is good
[11:15] <sistpoty> crimsun: maybe some tech questions to solve offline/online, review some packaging work the applicant has made
[11:16] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes, some low-level packaging :=
[11:16] <sistpoty> :)
[11:16] <imbrandon> well if we open revu for anyone to revu that brings up the problem of two non exprinced revuers "ok"ing something for the archive
[11:16] <LaserJock> although I tend to think it's easier to do then working with the many many different types of packaging we get from Debian
[11:16] <crimsun> what sort of tech questions, though?
[11:16] <bddebian> kernel or X packages!!! :)
[11:16] <LaserJock> imbrandon: review, not advocate
[11:16] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:16] <sistpoty> crimsun: I guess we could take a look at the NM question db ;)
[11:16] <imbrandon> then that i would like
[11:16] <imbrandon> NOOOOOOOOOOO
[11:16] <LaserJock> crimsun: ${shlibs:Depends)! :-)
[11:17] <crimsun> that one 
[11:17] <imbrandon> sistpoty, wash your mouth out
[11:17] <crimsun> is vaguely familiar
[11:17] <sistpoty> imbrandon: are they too tough? haven't looked at these yet 
[11:17] <LaserJock> well, I doubt we could have a set of questions as after a few times people would just learn the answers
[11:17] <imbrandon> its not that, its the red tape, we dont want this process to become debian ( again not tooo easy though )
[11:18] <LaserJock> imbrandon: we aren't saying that
[11:18] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I'm pretty creative when it comes to inventing questions ;)
[11:18] <imbrandon> LaserJock, sistpoty, was :)
[11:18] <LaserJock> no he wasn't
[11:18] <crimsun> the ultimate question, I think, is whether MOTU requires packaging knowledge (I think it does), which necessitates having technical questions. IOW, is there any room for an MOTU who doesn't package?
[11:18] <imbrandon> how do you propose to have a test and not 
[11:18] <LaserJock> he said that maybe we could look at the Debian NM question db to see what kinds of questions they use
[11:18] <sistpoty> imbrandon: no, I was saying we could look at the questions in case we can't make up some ourselves... as an inspiration
[11:18] <sistpoty> ;)
[11:19] <imbrandon> sistpoty, its not the questions them selfs its the idea of having a test
[11:19] <sistpoty> hm...
[11:19] <LaserJock> crimsun: I think a MOTU requires 3 things
[11:19] <imbrandon> imho we came up with a great process in UDS
[11:19] <LaserJock> 1) Packaging knowledge
[11:19] <LaserJock> 2) Process knowledge
[11:19] <LaserJock> 3) Team/Social knowledge
[11:20] <bddebian> Hmm, do us current morons get grandfathered in? ;-P
[11:20] <imbrandon> heh
[11:20] <sistpoty> *g*
[11:20] <LaserJock> of course, at least until you expire ;-)
[11:20] <crimsun> well deities are obviously grandfathered
[11:20] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:20] <sistpoty> imbrandon: actually my current idea is not so much of a "hard" test, but I don't know if I manage to get it shaped to words right now ;)
[11:20] <LaserJock> whatever
[11:21] <LaserJock> ^^ @ ajmitch 
[11:21] <imbrandon> hrm i guess my question is why not implment what was discussed at UDS? seemed mdz,keybuk,dholbach,ajmitch,me,LaserJock and a few others were in on that processes
[11:21] <imbrandon> and it seemed to work out
[11:21] <ajmitch> LaserJock: did you see that? it requires *social skills*
[11:21] <crimsun> imbrandon: is that spec'd?
[11:21] <LaserJock> you have social skills ajmitch 
[11:21] <imbrandon> crimsun, yes
[11:21] <ajmitch> crimsun: of course, we've been trying to discuss it :)
[11:21] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MotuProcessesSpec
[11:21] <crimsun> k, I'll have to look later, cos this connection is nasty
[11:21] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it didn't seem like the details were worked out
[11:22] <imbrandon> LaserJock, it might have been after you left but yes many many details were
[11:22] <imbrandon> the only thing lacking realy is a MC
[11:22] <sistpoty> imbrandon: what I dislike about it (at least how I read it), is that it's quite anonymous handled... all via email
[11:22] <ajmitch> sistpoty: how is that anonymous?
[11:22] <imbrandon> sistpoty, no its all public
[11:22] <imbrandon> very very public
[11:23] <LaserJock> not personal, I think is what he means
[11:23] <imbrandon> well the first months of it are all irc etc, only the last 2 weeks are email
[11:23] <sistpoty> ajmitch, imbrandon: well... hard to explain... let me try: Once I've hopefully finished my study, I get my diploma sent in via mail... and that's it
[11:23] <sistpoty> there is nothing personal in there
[11:23] <imbrandon> sistpoty, no
[11:24] <ajmitch> sistpoty: going before the MOTU council for application requires that you have someone you've been working with suggest that you go for it
[11:24] <ajmitch> an advocate, so to speak
[11:24] <sistpoty> so I'd rather have the final ack (after email-discussion and so on), done on irc, as some kind of "celebration"
[11:24] <imbrandon> sistpoty, more like you work with the faliculty and other studentds on irc for months , then when a teacher thinks you are ready he sends an email to the list saying, he this student is ready to grad
[11:24] <LaserJock> I think the spec is too vague on this point
[11:24] <LaserJock> of how the approval is supposed to go
[11:24] <imbrandon> s/he/hey
[11:24] <ajmitch> raise the issues on the list, rather than on irc
[11:24] <LaserJock> it basically a TB meeting via email
[11:24] <ajmitch> since we're just a small subset of the MOTUs
[11:25] <LaserJock> sure, but I wanted to hash some stuff out before I do so
[11:25] <imbrandon> sistpoty, irc meetings dont scale well , diffrent timezones etc
[11:25] <crimsun> I think the 'teacher' bit might become a blocker, so we ought to consider a sponsor or a quorum of the MC
[11:25] <imbrandon> plus dosent allow required input most of the time
[11:25] <imbrandon> crimsun, the "teacher" was a sponsor
[11:26] <crimsun> right, that's what I'm saying can potentially be a blocker
[11:26] <sistpoty> imbrandon: no, it's actually only the "celebration" kind of thingy for the atmosphere... paaa, I'm really lacking the right words to describe what I mean ;)
[11:26] <imbrandon> heh
[11:26] <LaserJock> sistpoty: perhaps at the beginning of MC meetings we can acknowledge and congrat the new MOTUs
[11:26] <imbrandon> well brb
[11:27] <imbrandon> i have to run for a while, christmass shopping, crimsun safe flight
[11:27] <crimsun> thanks
[11:27] <ajmitch> bye imbrandon :)
[11:27] <imbrandon> take care all, back in a few ghours
[11:27] <imbrandon> hours*
[11:27] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes... that would s.th. I'm thinking of... some symbolic act of handing over the key to universe
[11:27] <ajmitch> ghours? google is taking over!
[11:27] <imbrandon> heh
[11:27] <sistpoty> cya imbrandon
[11:28] <sistpoty> anyway, know I don't know what I had in mind when I started to this line of though *g*
[11:30] <LaserJock> I think we should look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
[11:30] <ajmitch> yes, that was in mind at UDS when we started speccing
[11:31] <imbrandon> infact that was drafted at the same time iirc
[11:31] <LaserJock> what I'm lacking in the MOTU spec is that there is no guidelines for evaluating those
[11:31] <LaserJock> I know
[11:31] <LaserJock> I was there for some of it :-)
[11:31] <imbrandon> hehe
[11:31] <ajmitch> I presumed you were
[11:31] <LaserJock> the MOTU spec just has:
[11:32] <LaserJock> The council will have two weeks of time to check the references and reply back.
[11:32] <LaserJock> The applicant is encouraged to mention packages she/he maintains or specific uploads that were done quite well.
[11:32] <LaserJock> #
[11:32] <LaserJock>     *
[11:32] <LaserJock>       The Council will check Launchpad's /+packages page, talk to select team members and go with the information collected that way.
[11:32] <LaserJock> #
[11:32] <LaserJock> bah
[11:33] <LaserJock> so we can basically evaluate some of the techincal ability via packages/debdiffs they've done in the past
[11:33] <crimsun> right, this is the TB asking for prior packaging work
[11:33] <crimsun> (historically)
[11:33] <LaserJock> exactly
[11:33] <sistpoty> hehe
[11:34] <LaserJock> the current process for evaluation on the spec is just TB
[11:34] <LaserJock> except MC does it
[11:34] <LaserJock> and it's done via email
[11:34] <LaserJock> so we lose the real-time questioning
[11:34] <LaserJock> *loose
[11:34] <crimsun> well, not necessarily
[11:35] <crimsun> they still have to apply to the MC, no?
[11:35] <sistpoty> hehe, so we motu's "ask questions of other developers in order to expand their understanding of packaging work"... I wonder who put this there and for what he had in mind **gg*
[11:36] <bddebian> Later gang
[11:36] <sistpoty> later bddebian
[11:36] <bddebian> crimsun: have a safe flight
[11:36] <crimsun> thanks barry
[11:36] <ajmitch> bye bddebian 
[11:37] <LaserJock> well, their application to the MC is an email
[11:38] <LaserJock> If we had a template with questions we could at least get some, although I think at some point there should be some live questioning
[11:38] <crimsun> but the applicant doesn't have to appear live in front of the MC?
[11:38] <LaserJock> crimsun: not that I see
[11:38] <LaserJock> from my reading of the spec the entire process of MOTUship is done via email
[11:39] <LaserJock> from the applicant sending an application email to the MC sending the TB the results for final approval
[11:39] <sistpoty> yes...
[11:40] <LaserJock> I tend to think there should be some IRC discussion somewhere along the line
[11:40] <LaserJock> even if it was a one-on-one interview with a MC member
[11:40] <LaserJock> that then makes a recommendation
[11:40] <crimsun> I would think that'd happen at MC
[11:41] <LaserJock> crimsun: not according to the spec
[11:41] <sistpoty> LaserJock +1... even if it might not be the most *efficient* way of handling this
[11:41] <sistpoty> but it has some symbolic character... it's just some nice thingy
[11:42] <sistpoty> offtopic: did anyone answer Marc Hauswirth (revu keyring addition) yet?
[12:03] <sistpoty> Sp4rKy: still here?
[12:05] <siretart> gnight folks
[12:05] <ianm_> hi all, I'm a software author looking to get a couple GPL apps packaged and available in Ubuntu
[12:05] <sistpoty> gn8 siretart
[12:06] <sistpoty> hi ianm_: would you like to do the packaging yourself, or should someone else do it?
[12:06] <ianm_> I would like someone else to, as I know nothing about it
[12:07] <gouki> This may not be the best place, but ... I started playing with irssistats and made a temporary pages for #ubuntu (ubuntustats.homelinux.org). I was told that this was being done by official ubuntu members, anyone knows something about it?
[12:07] <ianm_> the two apps are http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/screenruler/  and  http://gnomecoder.wordpress.com/chessclock/
[12:08] <ianm_> both depend on Ruby and the Ruby bindings for GTK, Glade and (the ruler only) Cairo, and work with the packages now in the repo
[12:08] <sistpoty> ianm_: ok... can you put them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates please?
[12:09] <ianm_> ok
[12:09] <sistpoty> thanks
[12:09] <gouki> ???
[12:09] <ianm_> sistpoty: is that it?  then just hope someone sees it who wants to package it?
[12:09] <sistpoty> ianm_: yes... of course pinging around here also helps ;)
[12:10] <sistpoty> gouki: sorry, no real idea who's responsible there
[12:11] <bhale> fabbione runes the irc logs
[12:11] <crimsun> and Seveas may know/do stuff with #ubuntu stats
[12:11] <gouki> I was told that tonyyarusso was working on something similiar, and I should coordinate with him ... Can't reach him!
[12:11] <Burgwork> bhale: is that ruins?
[12:12] <bhale> Burgwork: yes
[12:12] <bhale> runs
[12:12] <Seveas> ubugtu does number-of-users stats