[12:42] <mdke> I hate it when people don't idle 24 hours in here
[12:43] <LaserJock> why?
[12:43] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:44] <mdke> LaserJock: it means I can't contribute to discussions which took place many hours ago >_<
[12:54] <LaserJock> ah the LP thing?
[12:55] <mdke> well that, but more specifically will's question about translations
[12:56] <mdke> popey: here?
[01:09] <popey> yes mdke
[01:09] <popey> not for long tho
[01:09] <mdke> popey: sorry I didn't catch up with you today, was a long day
[01:10] <popey> no probs, I understand
[01:10] <mdke> all well?
[01:10] <popey> yeah, work is a bit busy as it's my last week :)
[01:10] <mdke> oh yeah
[01:10] <popey> people keep taking me down the pub also
[01:11] <mdke> heh. down the tapas bar in my case
[01:11] <popey> :) nice
[01:11] <mdke> so they can spill wine on me and put christmas hats on me
[01:11] <popey> haha
[01:13] <popey> off to bed for me actually
[01:13] <popey> unless there was anything specific you pinged me for ?
[01:15] <mdke> popey: no, good night
[01:15] <popey> nn
[02:48] <bdmurray> mdke: Looking at the Linux Basics Headings and changing "Switch to Console mode" to "Switching to Console mode", I noticed that phrase appears multiple places in svn tree.  Should I make 1 patch per document, i.e. one for ./ubuntu/C/newtoubuntu/basic-concepts.xml and 1 for ./kubuntu/C/newtokubuntu/basic-concepts.xml? Or one that covers all of them?
[02:48] <jjesse> sorry a little lagged
[02:48] <jjesse> but one patch for both
[02:49] <bdmurray> Okay.  There are actually 4, so one patch for all four?
[02:49] <jjesse> just worry about what is in /ubuntu/C/ and kubuntu/C is that what you are asking?
[02:51] <bdmurray> The phrase "Switch to Console mode" appears in /ubuntu/C/, /kubuntu/C/newtokubuntu/ , /kubuntu/C/misc/ and /kubuntu/desktopguide/ .  Should all the occurences be patched?
[02:52] <jjesse> don't worry about kubuntu/desktopguide
[02:52] <jjesse> one patch for /ubuntu/C
[02:52] <jjesse> and one patch for kubuntu stuff would be fine imo
[02:52] <bdmurray> okay, cool. thanks.
[04:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76016 in ubuntu-doc "Not obvious enough how to contribute to Ubuntu documentation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76016
[06:37] <Burgundavia> ok, grumble
[06:37] <Burgundavia> mdke: will nuked a bunch of stuff he should have refreshed
[07:31] <nixternal> Burgundavia: can any of it be saved?
[07:32] <Burgundavia> nixternal: it has been moved to the help wiki, but he didn't leave refreshes behind
[07:32] <nixternal> ahhh
[07:32] <nixternal> need help with them?
[07:32] <nixternal> i can take a break from this games document
[07:35] <Burgundavia> nope, done
[07:36] <nixternal> roger, back to the games doc :)
[08:34] <nixternal> updated kubuntu/C/games/games.xml with a new look/layout. so far have kde games implemented and will work on more tomorrow..just want to know if the layout is what you are looking for in regards to tbh
[08:34] <nixternal> mdke ^^
[08:34] <nixternal> g'nite all
[09:19] <mdke> Burgundavia: now's your chance
[09:19] <Burgundavia> willvdl: hey will
[09:25] <mdke> yay, lots of patches
[11:56] <matthewrevell> Hey guys
[11:56] <Madpilot> hi matthewrevell
[11:58] <matthewrevell> I'm just making some notes about the Ubuntu Yelp format docs, with my suggestions for where we might have another couple of Launchpad mentions. Would it be best to send that to the mailing list?
[11:59] <Madpilot> yes
[12:01] <matthewrevell> cool
[12:01] <matthewrevell> thanks
[12:03] <TLE> Hey guys, any bugsquashers in here ?
[12:05] <TLE> I was reading through some of the bugsquashing wiki pages yesterday, and found a number of "old" references in them and I was wondering if somebody wanted to correct them
[12:05] <TLE> I'd do it myself exept I'm new to WIKI editing and even newer to bugsquashing
[12:23] <matthewrevell> TLE: When you say "old" references, do you mean that the wiki pages described an old way of doing things?
[12:48] <TLE> matthewrevell: hey sorry, I was away. At https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay?action=show&redirect=UbuntuHugDay we have the text "We've now released the beta for Edgy Eft"
[12:51] <ktogias> I want to work on translating some of the community documentation (help.ubuntu.com/community/) pages to greek...  Should I create the greek pages at the help.ubuntu.com/community/ wiki or it is a bad place for them? Should I instead use the ubuntu-gr.org wiki?
[12:55] <ktogias> I have created a cuple of "sample" greek pages  under help.ubuntu.com/community/ . I name them as el/EnglishPageName (eg. see help.ubuntu.com/community/el/CommonQuestions).
[12:57] <ktogias> The pros of this approach is that greek pages are searchable and accessible from the main help.ubuntu.com/community site and links to not yet translated pages point with no modification to the correspoding english ones.
[01:00] <ktogias> Should I continue working this way on the help.ubuntu.com/community/ (with coordination with my loco team), or should I move and continue at ubuntu-gr.org space?
[01:26] <mpt> ktogias, as long as you follow a consistent pattern, if we decide later that we need to organize things differently, we can automate whatever change needs to be made
[01:26] <mpt> (e.g. changing URLs)
[01:32] <ktogias> ok... I have decided to put everything under help.ubuntu.com/community/el/PageName and create Redirection pages with the corresponding greek name under help.ubuntu.com/community/ (e.g. help.ubuntu.com/community/ ) in order for the page to be searchable by the greek title. I do not use the greek title at first place, because greek characters on urls are translated to hex values resulting in long, ugly and mea
[01:32] <ktogias> ningless referring urls (eg. help.ubuntu.com/community/%ce%a3%cf%85%cf%87%ce%bd%ce%ad%cf%82_%ce%95%cf%81%cf%89%cf%84%ce%ae%cf%83%ce%b5%ce%b9%cf%82)
[01:33] <ktogias> Any problem with this approach?
[01:42] <willvdl> ktogias, is there a Greek LoCo team?
[01:42] <ktogias> yes... I am a member of it
[01:42] <ktogias> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GreekTeam
[01:43] <ktogias> And we have the ubuntu-gr.org space
[01:47] <matthewrevell> I delayed mentioning docs in launchpad-user to start speaking to potential user panel people, and thought I'd speak to them about docs at first instead.
[01:47] <matthewrevell> wrong channel
[01:56] <willvdl> ktogias, I think translations are better suited to the LoCo team websites. I'm not sure how the other LoCo's do it (having not looked yet)
[01:59] <ktogias> I think it is a good thing to have the localized documentation centralized to the main help.ubuntu site. Someone with ignorance of the ubuntu-gr.org site, would be able to be aware of the existance of greek docs with a search to the help.ubuntu.com/community site...
[02:02] <ktogias> And moving the few (at the beginning) translated pages to ubuntu-gr.org will isolate greek docs from the rest documentation and we will have to change links to pages not yet translated to point to help.ubuntu.com corresponding English pages, or have them to point to empty pages (not a good thing for a reader that could continue his reading in english if the greek page was not available)
[02:02] <willvdl> I agree with you. Thing is there is no current way to handle localisation or content filtering in the moinmoin wiki.
[02:03] <ktogias> I know :(
[02:03] <willvdl> what some do is they maintain a working copy of the wiki (rsynced to their site) that gets translated as they go
[02:04] <ktogias> I find this far more complicated... And who/when should we sync?
[02:05] <ktogias> This could lead to obsolete/unsyncronized docs in our "mirror"...
[02:05] <willvdl> I just noticed an Italian group doing that a while back.
[02:06] <willvdl> well, I'm not really the one to ask but if something like rsync is set properly then it could happen as changes are made
[02:09] <willvdl> The thing with using unicode titles is that even help.ubuntu.com/community/  becomes hex in the url
[02:10] <ktogias> Ok... As i see there is not a standard path for having localized Community documentation.... Thanks for your suggestions, I will discuss them with the members of greek loco team.
[02:11] <willvdl> as mpt said though, as you follow a consistent pattern things would probably work out
[07:31] <mdke> evening
[07:32] <Burgwork> evening mdke
[07:34] <mdke> how goes it Burgwork ?
[07:34] <Burgwork> not bad
[07:50] <nixternal> hmm. it seems that the 3d chess game in gnome games only works with opengl, when it states it works in either 2d or 3d mode, and also states it comes with gnu chess as the default ai, however none of this is true with Ubuntu
[07:50] <Burgwork> no, it works in 2d for me
[07:50] <Burgwork> in fact, i cannot get it into 3d
[07:51] <nixternal> hmm. it will not start up in feisty for me (on Kubuntu) because it can't find the glade module
[07:52] <Burgwork> file a bug
[07:52] <mdke> sounds like a missing dependency
[07:53] <nixternal> ya, im looking at the package now
[07:53] <nixternal> thats what i love about Linux..i find an issue, i report the bug, i fix the issue, and close the bug :)
[07:53] <mdke> yes, works here on Ubuntu too. Must be a missing dep
[07:54] <nixternal> ya, i installed python2.4-glade2 and it works
[07:54] <mdke> easy one :)
[07:54] <nixternal> hehe
[07:57] <mdke> bdmurray: nice work on all these patches, much appreciated
[07:58] <bdmurray> mdke: no problem, thanks.
[08:00] <bdmurray> I see there are still a couple I have submitted via launchpad.  Are changes applied more quickly when sent to the mailing list?
[08:01] <mdke> yeah, I guess I've noticed them more prominently
[08:02] <mdke> bdmurray: are you feeling relatively comfortable about docbook and our other tools? Any questions or anything like that?
[08:04] <bdmurray> I'm not really clear on the differentiation between the directories in svn.  If that question makes sense.
[08:05] <bdmurray> Well, I guess it isn't really a question per se.
[08:06] <mdke> can you explain a bit more?
[08:08] <bdmurray> when I run 'find . -name '*.xml' | xargs grep -H "Users and Groups"' the phrase appears multiple times in the tree.  Some of which I would expect some of which I wouldn't.
[08:08] <mdke> in which places?
[08:09] <bdmurray> I would expect in to show up in kubuntu , xubuntu and ubuntu.  But not in kubuntu/C/misc/linux-basics.xml and kubuntu/desktopguide/C/linux-basics.xml
[08:09] <mdke> ok, that has an innocent explanation
[08:09] <bdmurray> and /kubuntu/C/newtokubuntu/basic-concepts.xm
[08:10] <mdke> kubuntu/C/misc/ is a dump directory to store files which we are not sure about whether we are going to integrate elsewhere
[08:10] <mdke> kubuntu/desktopguide/ is an old directory that nixternal will remove when he is satisfied that the migration to the new structure has been completed
[08:10] <mdke> and kubuntu/C/newtokubuntu is the right place :)
[08:11] <mdke> it's basically because we have recently messed around very significantly with our structure
[08:11] <mdke> and still need to clean house a bit
[08:11] <bdmurray> Okay, that makes sense then.
[08:11] <nixternal> mdke: should I put a NOTE or README in that directory, or even a DO_NOT_USE for the time being?
[08:12] <nixternal> actually, i could just remove it, because i put the files in kubuntu/C/misc
[08:12] <bdmurray> maybe there should be a top level README regarding the structure
[08:12] <mdke> yeah
[08:12] <bdmurray> because what I was doing wouldn't have found it
[08:13] <mdke> ok, patches all committed, good job!
[08:13] <mdke> bdmurray: please poke me or someone else if a patch of yours has not been applied.
[08:14] <mdke> if you think you will continue to contribute in this way, I'd like to arrange svn access for you so you can do so directly. You seem to know what you're doing
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76542 in ubuntu-doc "Verbage change in basic-concepts.xml" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76542
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76545 in ubuntu-doc "Sentence order change in basic-concepts.xml" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76545
[08:15] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76547 in ubuntu-doc "verbage change in add-applications-introduction" [Undecided,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76547
[08:16] <mdke> Seveas: Ubugtu is telling us about bugs which aren't new. Please discipline him in whatever way seems best
[08:16] <nixternal> lol
[08:16] <Seveas> mdke, that'sbacklog
[08:16] <nixternal> i can picture Seveas sitting there spanking his computer...bad computer
[08:16] <mdke> Seveas: hmm?
[08:16] <bdmurray> mdke: okay, thanks.
[08:17] <Seveas> ubugtu was down
[08:17] <mdke> ah, ok. Those were bugs I just changed the status of, so I got the wrong impression I guess
[08:17] <Seveas> bugs coming in during downtime will be seen as new at the first reply to that bug when he's back up
[08:17] <bdmurray> mdke: let me think about the svn access and how much time I can commit.
[08:18] <mdke> Seveas: ah, that makes sense now, thanks
[08:18] <mdke> bdmurray: certainly. We don't have any requirements about that, a number of contributors come and go a good deal
[08:19] <mdke> hell, without me and nixternal svn would fall asleep half the time
[08:19] <mdke> and jjesse
[08:19] <bdmurray> heh, okay then I'll help keep it awake.
[08:19] <mdke> you're on. Welcome aboard
[08:20] <nixternal> lol
[08:20] <bdmurray> Thanks.
[08:20] <nixternal> only because jjesse only recently got his commit rights back
[08:20] <nixternal> or password correct
[08:20] <mdke> Burgwork: you ok with bdmurray, right? I'd also quite like to add linuxphotogeek who has been doing some good patches recently
[08:20] <Burgwork> mdke: sounds good
[08:42] <bdmurray> Will my username and password for svn commits be the same as for launchpad?
[08:44] <mdke> yeah
[08:54] <Burgwork> hey willvdl, did you get my ping earlier?
[08:55] <willvdl> hey. sorry no. basically logged on and moved away :|
[08:56] <willvdl> very distracted today
[08:56] <Burgwork> no worries
[08:57] <Burgwork> I basically said that if you move stuff from wiki.u.c to the help wiki, leave a refresh behind, as I did with the edubuntu pages you nuked
[09:04] <willvdl> ah. yes
[09:04] <willvdl> Burgwork, I made a mistake there, only read the policy bit afterwards.
[09:05] <Burgwork> no worries
[09:05] <Burgwork> no major harm done
[09:05] <willvdl> well, I was cleaning up edubuntu wiki and looked for last edit dates and any references to the moved pages. Those with none got nuked.
[09:30] <nixternal> mdke: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38275/
[09:30] <nixternal> have you ever used the <keyword> stuff in a document? will this help with searching possibly?
[09:33] <bdmurray> hrm, I'm having a hard time making a commit.  Should I be able to now?
[09:33] <nixternal> you received your password already?
[09:33] <bdmurray> nixternal: no, I thought mdke said it would be my launchpad username and password.
[09:34] <nixternal> you will use your launchpad username, but canonical will email you a password
[09:34] <bdmurray> nixternal: okay thanks.  I'll try and be more patient. ;)
[09:34] <nixternal> the email will be encrypted, but seeing as you are probably on launchpad and on the team, I am guessing you already sent your key, and then signed the CoC
[09:35] <bdmurray> Yes, I have a launchpad account and I have sent my key and signed the CoC.  However, I don't see myself in launchpad listed as part of the team.
[09:36] <nixternal> ok, mdke will add you as soon as he can
[09:37] <bdmurray> okay, not a big deal.  Do you know how long it takes to get the svn password?  I'm trying to decide if I should sit on the change / patch or e-mail it.
[09:37] <nixternal> i received mine fairly quick, so from now until i would say a day at the least
[09:38] <nixternal> as long as they aren't busy and an admin is around to do so
[09:38] <bdmurray> Cool, thanks for the information.
[09:38] <nixternal> no problem
[09:38] <nixternal> are you a Kubuntu user or Ubuntu?
[09:39] <bdmurray> More Kubuntu, but I have an Edubuntu system around here too.
[09:39] <nixternal> woohoo!
[09:39] <nixternal> the Kubuntu side of docs is getting bigger..that rocks
[09:40] <nixternal> well as it stands, most of the stuff right now is done by jjesse, robotgeek, trappist, and myself, with ryanakca and a couple of others just getting into it
[09:40] <bdmurray> Some of the documentation seems generic too.
[09:41] <nixternal> right now on the Kubuntu side of things, just like the Ubuntu side, we are concentrating heavily on the Topic Based Help
[09:41] <nixternal> also, the About Kubuntu section will get sucked into Ubiquity for a nice presentation while the system is installed
[09:42] <nixternal> bdmurray: the reason for the generic feeling is because in the beginning a lot of the Kubuntu documentation was sucked from the Ubuntu side
[09:42] <bdmurray> I didn't really mean generic but that some tools appear in both.
[09:42] <nixternal> with Edgy docs, we were under a super tight deadline and it got busy quick, but a lot of us were dealing with other things at the same time, making it difficult to concentrate 100%
[09:43] <nixternal> bdmurray: i know what you meant, but there is a lot of rather generic usage..hopefully with the time we have now we can fix most of that if not all of that
[09:44] <nixternal> if you are up to it, feel free to grab a section out of trunk/kubuntu/C/ and hack away. i am working on the game section right now, but for the rest of the guys i don't knwo what they might be hacking on
[09:44] <nixternal> usually, i just send an email to list to find out who is doing what in kubuntu
[09:45] <bdmurray> Is the projects page in the wiki current?
[09:45] <nixternal> i'm affraid not
[09:45] <mdke> generic = good
[09:45] <nixternal> only if it applies equally is it good though
[09:46] <nixternal> there were some sections in the old kdg that referred to gnome ways, which really are boogs more than they are being generic
[09:47] <mdke> sure
[09:47] <nixternal> but of course, trying to do things the same way that works for all makes life so much easier
[09:47] <nixternal> i.e., the games section
[09:48] <nixternal> i have kde game and gnome games pretty much covered..i want to insert some of the popular games, windows replacements (which are already pretty much covered, so possibly a small section with xrefs back to the original content
[09:48] <bdmurray> lunch time here, cya
[09:48] <nixternal> and then a small write up that it is possible to play WoW, Quake 4, and such non-natively by using Cedega
[09:49] <nixternal> like 1 para that it is possible, and that you should review the cedega site, and of course it isn't free, gonna cost ya a few bucks a month/year
[09:49] <nixternal> cya later bdmurray
[09:59] <mdke> ma /win 11
[09:59] <nixternal> heh
[10:00] <nixternal> hehe
[10:00] <nixternal> thats alright, i find myself trying to change windows by doing cd
[10:05] <mdke> Burgwork: have you tried the CMSs yet?
[10:05] <Burgwork> mdke: not yet
[10:05] <mdke> I can't log in
[10:07] <Burgwork> ah
[10:19] <mdke> was my foolishness
[11:24] <mdke> popey: around?
[11:24] <jjesse> hello mdke
[11:34] <mdke> hi jjesse
[12:00] <popey> mdke: unfortunately just off to bed
[12:00] <popey> saw the mail though, thanks!
[12:01] <popey> ooo, a reply from ubuntuclips
[12:01] <mdke> yeah
[12:01] <mdke> popey: when you have some more time, we can chat about maybe creating doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts or similar
[12:02] <popey> yup
[12:02] <mdke> cool
[12:02] <mdke> night
[12:02] <popey> i would also like to see some kind of direction
[12:02] <popey> I am making it up as I go along
[12:02] <popey> if peopls have a core list, that would be great
[12:03] <popey> at the moment I am working off my own list to do, but have taken input from some of the how-tos on help.u.c
[12:03] <popey> for example the one about dual booting was a direct lift of the dual boot how to
[12:03] <popey> as was the cd burning one
[12:04] <mdke> we can definitely get some ideas going on the doc list
[12:06] <popey> nn
[12:07] <mdke> night
[12:07] <popey> oh, and it's my last day at work tomorrow - if you see me on irc after about 3pm, /ignore me, I will likely have had one too many guinnesses
[12:07] <popey> I should setup some kind of drinking lock on my pc
[12:07] <mdke> heh, have a good one