[12:18] <kiko> seb128, if you want products created for you, just /msg me on IRC
[12:18] <seb128> kiko: well, I mention it because I faced the problem some days ago and just dropped on the trunk entry
[12:18] <kiko> I can have it done and will ping you back in record time
[12:18] <seb128> kiko: ok, thank you
[12:18] <Fujitsu> You actually expect most to get registered? I find it somewhat unlikely.
[12:19] <kiko> over time? sure I do
[12:19] <seb128> kiko: just by curiosity is there any page explaining what the upstream trunk question is about?
[12:19] <seb128> because the launchpad page doesn't make clear what it's asking for and where to find that information
[12:20] <Fujitsu> Launchpad is mutually exclusive with documentation, from what I've seen :(
[12:20] <kiko> there is no trunk question, seb128 -- is there?
[12:20] <seb128> "Product Serie"
[12:20] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/products/+new
[12:20] <seb128> "Product Series" to be exact
[12:20] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty/+source/gtkhtml3.8/+packaging
[12:20] <kiko> seb128, we do that all for you 
[12:20] <seb128> by example
[12:20] <seb128> "Launchpad does not know the upstream product series for this package. If you know the correct details, please enter them carefully."
[12:20] <kiko> seb128, link the other way around -- product to package
[12:20] <kiko> and it's easier
[12:20] <seb128> well, I come from a bug on the package
[12:20] <kiko> there are bugs filed on that actually
[12:20] <seb128> and clicked on upstream task
[12:21] <seb128> which brought me there
[12:21] <Fujitsu> kiko, ahhhhh. I didn't think of doing it the other way when I tried it.
[12:21] <kiko> seb128, that page is a disgrace on humanity
[12:21] <seb128> kiko: if somebody could create a product for gtkhtml3.8 that would be nice
[12:22] <seb128> I don't fancy having to figure a description for it and a summary
[12:22] <kiko> is that libgtkhtml, seb128?
[12:22] <seb128> kiko: no, that's gtkhtml from evolution
[12:22] <kiko> seb128, http://directory.fsf.org/webauth/htmlpreproc/gtkhtml.html ?
[12:23] <seb128> kiko: that's it
[12:23] <seb128> hum
[12:23] <seb128> no, wait
[12:24] <kiko> seb128, I have it at the tip of my finger...
[12:25] <seb128> kiko: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtkhtml/
[12:25] <kiko> it's the same thing
[12:26] <seb128> from the page you pointed: "Version 3.0.10 (stable) released on 2003-09-18 00:00:00.000"
[12:26] <kiko> that page is old 
[12:26] <seb128> maybe the page is only outdated
[12:26] <seb128> ok
[12:26] <kiko> it's andersca's gtkhtml
[12:26] <kiko> seb128, created and linked to gtkhtml3.8
[12:26] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/products/gtkhtml/
[12:27] <seb128> kiko: thank you
[12:27] <kiko> see the Distro Packages box? I did that!
[12:27] <kiko> technology my man
[12:27] <seb128> sorry for complaining ;)
[12:27] <kiko> seb128, complaints are key to improvement
[12:27] <kiko> seb128, if you have more products to register just send them my way
[12:27] <seb128> but having to figure upstream website, description, serie, etc was just too much to do
[12:27] <kiko> and tell dholbach he can if he ever complains
[12:28] <kiko> I just copy n paste
[12:28] <seb128> I just wanted to open an upstream task :p
[12:28] <kiko> and live with the wreckage
[12:28] <kiko> heh
[12:28] <kiko> what is it now LarstiQ 
[12:28] <seb128> kiko: ok :)
[12:28] <LarstiQ> kiko: autotools-dev in https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+packages
[12:28] <kiko> LarstiQ, jesus that's such an old request
[12:28] <kiko> stub's a slacker
[12:29] <LarstiQ> I know I've complained about it before :)
[12:29] <kiko> SteveA, what should we do about admin tasks that need to be handled by the DBA but never get done?
[12:29] <kiko> beyond hanging dead chickens around his house in thailand
[12:29] <kiko> I didn't mean it
[12:30] <SteveA> dead chickens?
[12:30] <kiko> bad omens
[12:30] <SteveA> they'll end up on the bbq sticks at the nearest rat-on-a-stick stall
[12:31] <kiko> is this your way of not answering my question
[12:31] <kiko> Contributors: James Henstridge <james@daa.com.au>
[12:31] <kiko> as usual
[12:38] <SteveA> that was such a rhetorical question
[12:38] <SteveA> followed by another rhetorical question
[12:39] <kiko> SteveA, it's 9:40pm 
[12:39] <kiko> what do you expect from me
[12:39] <LarstiQ> yet more rhetorical questions.
[12:39] <kiko> what is the meaning of life?
[12:40] <SteveA> hmm... 12.40 am
[12:40] <SteveA> bedtime
[12:40] <kiko> no gym for overtime SteveA tonight
[12:41] <LarstiQ> SteveA: http://bazaar-vcs.org/NlSprint in case you hadn't seen it yet.
[12:46] <SteveA> LarstiQ: thanks.  did you mail the python-nl list about it?
[12:47] <SteveA> maybe it would be an interesting intro to bzr
[12:47] <LarstiQ> SteveA: not yet, I'd like to get some more meat to it first.
[12:47] <SteveA> ok
[12:47] <SteveA> so, it can be at my place so long as I'm at home
[12:48] <SteveA> my only trip so far is pycon at the end of feb
[12:48] <LarstiQ> right, coordinating the timing is the biggest thing I wanted to tackle :)
[12:48] <LarstiQ> SteveA: sleep well
[12:48] <SteveA> thanks
[01:26] <LarstiQ> kiko: the blender vcs-import lags behind cvs, is there an intent written down somewhere for what vcs-imports tries to achieve?
[01:27] <kiko> what it tries to do when importing you mean, the nitty gritty, LarstiQ?
[01:28] <LarstiQ> kiko: rather, the 'guarantees' for how close it tracks upstream
[01:28] <LarstiQ> it's a day behind, which is enough for me not to be of much use
[01:29] <kiko> I asked ddaa about this recently
[01:29] <kiko> I think we can be up to 24h behind
[01:29] <kiko> and I /think/ there are ways to customize this interval per-project if you talk tohim
[01:30] <LarstiQ> kiko: will do that then.
[01:30] <kiko> let me know the outcome
[01:30] <kiko> I'm curious
[01:32] <LarstiQ> to bed for now
[01:32] <kiko> I liked christel's lart there
[01:32] <kiko> it sounded dead honest
[01:33] <LarstiQ> kiko: wrong channel?
[01:33] <kiko> the global notice
[01:33] <kiko> did you miss it?
[01:33] <thumper> kiko: I missed it
[01:33] <kiko> thumper, do you know the answer to LarstiQ's indagation?
[01:34] <thumper> kiko: you mean minimising the time lag for LarstiQ's imports?
[01:35] <kiko> well yes, and also just explaining what the lag is about.
[01:35] <thumper> lag is due to cron
[01:35] <kiko> cron's easy to fix :)
[01:35] <thumper> and the frequence that things are checked
[01:35] <thumper> I don't understand the internals yet
[01:36] <thumper> but I have a plan
[01:36] <LarstiQ> presumably there is a reason things are checked at the current frequency?
[01:36] <thumper> I just have to fight the gods of cron
[01:36] <LarstiQ> thumper: a cunning plan I hope.
[01:36] <thumper> LarstiQ: a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel
[01:36] <thumper> LarstiQ: histerical reasons probably, not too sure
[01:37] <LarstiQ> ah yes, the hysterical raisins.
[01:37] <LarstiQ> ddaa has told me about those before.
[01:54] <kiko-zzz> high fives all around, zzzz
[03:01] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[03:08] <somerville32> :D
[03:10] <Fujitsu> Hi mpt.
[04:41] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76832 in malone "Simplify requesting a fix for older versions of software / product" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76832
[05:57] <Hobbsee> awww, no people.  to anyone who sees this later, i'm looking to change where my hobbsee@ubuntu.com && hobbsee@kubuntu.org point to - i've got my new address listed as the primary address in LP - will this automatically sync, and repoint my mail, or does someone need to do this manually?
[06:35] <mpt> Hobbsee, I think it happens automatically
[06:35] <mpt> Try e-mailing yourself @ubuntu.com and see :-)
[06:46] <Hobbsee> mpt: excellent, it has :)
[06:46] <Hobbsee> i think
[06:47] <Hobbsee> i seem to be getting rejected mails and bugmails
[09:03] <carlos> morning
[09:03] <Hobbsee> hey carlos 
[09:06] <Hobbsee> mpt: you said it would be automatic for @ubuntu.com emails - why hasnt it for @kubuntu.org?  did you happen to know?
[09:21] <mpt> Hobbsee, I don't know anything about kubuntu.org, sorry
[09:21] <Hobbsee> okay
[09:42] <mdke> Hobbsee: you need elmo 
[09:43] <Hobbsee> mdke: right, okay
[09:43] <Hobbsee> elmo: ping?
[09:43] <Hobbsee> it didnt matter till i changed where my email pointed to - argh!  ;P
[09:45] <kiko-zzz> yawn
[09:45] <kiko-zzz> what's going on
[09:46] <Hobbsee> hey kiko-zzz 
[09:46] <kiko-zzz> I have been sandbagged by my cycling companions
[09:46] <kiko-zzz> but I will prevail
[09:47] <Fujitsu> Evening, kiko-zzz.
[10:09] <matthewrevell> mpt: ooh, thanks
[10:12] <matthewrevell> mpt: Is this a Matthew-only love-in, or can anyone join in? :)
[10:12] <SteveA> there are enough matts at Canonical for a full on orgy, matthewrevell 
[10:18] <mpt> that is NOT the mission of the Matthew Cabal
[11:55] <cprov> good morning 
[12:02] <carlos> danilos: ok, so TranslationReview implementation is done. Now is time to fix all bugs and the spec will be finished
[12:03] <carlos> it's a pity that javascript cannot be tested...
[12:03] <danilos> carlos: wow, great :)
[12:03] <danilos> carlos: yeah, but there was some discussion (on the list?) about considering it
[12:03] <carlos> I know
[12:03] <carlos> I filed a bug yesterday
[12:04] <carlos> to track its status
[12:10] <SteveA> matthewrevell: hi
[12:12] <matthewrevell> SteveA: hey
[12:12] <SteveA> matthewrevell: how about a voice call?
[12:12] <matthewrevell> Yeah, sounds good
[12:25] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76854 in launchpad "Launchpad does not understand bzr+ssh: urls" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76854
[01:34] <kiko> hi pie
[01:59] <heiko> i've been googling for that a lot, but couldn't find anything about it: i've repeatedly verified on different devices that upgrading from dapper->edgy as well as edgy->feisty breaks wlan for me. is there already a bug report for that? would it make sense to create one?
[02:01] <salgado> heiko, the right channel to ask that is #ubuntu. but you may also search in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs to see if it's already reported
[02:02] <heiko> i've asked on #ubuntu a number of times, so i figured that maybe people who are slightly more technical could be found here.
[02:05] <matsubara> heiko: #ubuntu-bugs
[02:06] <matsubara> heiko: a lot of the BugSquad team members hang there, so it's the best place to find out about already reported bugs on ubuntu
[02:06] <heiko> cool, thanks
[02:07] <kiko> carlos, sent a review your way
[02:07] <kiko> Hobbsee, am I going to be able to send out DVDs before the new year?
[02:07] <carlos> kiko: cool, thanks!
[02:07] <Hobbsee> kiko: dunno.  i've been at work and such.  and today been doing some very crucial testing.  supertux :P
[02:08] <kiko> Hobbsee, come on.. those studios need to make a living through copyrights you know!
[02:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:18] <kiko> Hobbsee, can you find out how we stand and let me know? 
[02:21] <Hobbsee> kiko: as in, how many bugs left?
[02:21] <Hobbsee> kiko: my email is in limbo.  but perhaps
[02:21] <kiko> and as in, how the activity has been lately
[02:21] <Hobbsee> oh right
[02:21] <Hobbsee> there have been some groups that have done a whole heap of work - ubuntu-chicago is one
[02:22] <kiko> oh really
[02:23] <Hobbsee> yep
[02:29] <cprov> kiko: check the fix for bug 59443 in https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/cprov/launchpad/trivialities/full-diff, if you have time
[02:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59443 in soyuz "Soyuz should send announce messages for backports to different list" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59443 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[02:35] <ddaa> SteveA: handed over a fixed and customised svn2bzr as well as a conversion of the svn dump to ignas on #schooltool
[02:35] <ddaa> as well as some explanations of where I expect there would be problems with the converted data
[02:35] <SteveA> ddaa: handed over to whom?
[02:36] <ddaa> to ignas
[02:36] <SteveA> that's great.  thanks for doing it, and thanks for telling me.
[02:36] <SteveA> what does ignas think about it?
[02:36] <SteveA> is he happy?
[02:36] <ddaa> he sounds happy that I got it working :)
[02:36] <ddaa> I gave my email and asked him to tell me about specific problem he needs fixed.
[02:37] <ddaa> I know that svn2bzr is not reusing file-ids as much as it could.
[02:38] <ddaa> so I explained that I expected some problem with merging active branches
[03:35] <LapTop006> I have an entry for "fix-it Friday" (even if it's gone saturday here ;-), bugs 74748 and 74749, with a beer or equivilent as bonus
[03:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74748 in launchpad ""Select a Person or Team" should use default term" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74748
[03:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74749 in launchpad ""Select a Person or Team" needs to be themed" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/74749
[03:38] <LarstiQ> ddaa: blender vcs-imports lags by at least a day right now. To what could the frequency of updating be increased if I asked nicely?
[03:48] <ddaa> LarstiQ: the frequency of importing can be increased, but the published vcs-imports branches are still updated once a day.
[03:48] <ddaa> LarstiQ: I happen to have just committed a patch that would allow fixing this :)
[03:49] <ddaa> So I'll make it FiF patch to actually fix the branch puller.
[03:50] <salgado> LapTop006, I'm afraid most of the launchpad developers are already on vacation, so it's not going to be easy to find somebody to do that. :/
[03:50] <salgado> I'd do that myself, but I have a couple things I need to finish before leaving on vacation
[03:51] <LapTop006> hmm
[03:57] <ddaa> LarstiQ: as a matter of fact, the blender import botched on the last sync
[04:01] <LarstiQ> ddaa: what made it botch?
[04:02] <ddaa> not obvious, a file appeared modified in the final cross-check
[04:02] <ddaa> might be a commit-in-progress race, or a CVS repo surgery
[04:03] <ddaa> running the sync again to see if it works
[04:03] <ddaa> or maybe it was "created", I never quite remember what the notation means...
[04:06] <ddaa> or might be a new bug :)
[04:08] <ddaa> LarstiQ: okay, it passed now
[04:08] <ddaa> probably it was a cvs commit race.
[04:08] <LarstiQ> ddaa: thanks
[04:08] <ddaa> it still going to be a while before the published branch gets updated
[04:08] <ddaa> sorry about this
[04:09] <ddaa> I'll be hacking on it once I'm done with the daily herding of new imports.
[04:10] <LarstiQ> ddaa: is that mainly a cron issue?
[04:11] <ddaa> cron? :)
[04:11] <ddaa> it's a scheduling issue
[04:11] <ddaa> we have a cronscript that runs every 10 mins, but it does not update all branches all the time
[04:11] <ddaa> for reasons that I think are obvious :)
[04:12] <ddaa> and up to now, we had no way to know that vcs-imports branch needed updating
[04:12] <ddaa> well.. no reliable way
[04:16] <LarstiQ> right
[04:18] <ddaa> one day, we'll have a daemon, and message-based system to have near-zero latency
[04:20] <LarstiQ> ddaa: that would be sweet. Is there anyone going to work on that in the near future?
[04:20] <ddaa> nope
[04:20] <ddaa> there are many things we can do to improve the latency and the robustness of the system before this
[04:21] <ddaa> BTW, it would be cool to have a system to get notifications from postgres. Something like "if a new row appears on this table, call this method".
[04:21] <ddaa> kiko: do you know if such a thing is possible today?
[04:21] <LarstiQ> just a trigger?
[04:21] <ddaa> no, an application method
[04:22] <ddaa> not a database method
[04:22] <ddaa> otherwise we'd need another channel (xmlrpc presumably) for notifications, or we would have to poll the database.
[04:22] <ddaa> none of which are extremely desirable
[04:35] <LarstiQ> ddaa: barring the message-based system, what improvements to the latency can I expect?
[04:36] <ddaa> For a CVS repo, we will have a sync every 12h, published within 10 mins after sync.
[04:36] <ddaa> At some point during January.
[04:36] <ddaa> we cannot increase the frequency too much because cscvs does not deal well with commits in progress
[04:37] <LarstiQ> yet you can still get that race condition every sync?
[04:37] <ddaa> yes
[04:38] <ddaa> but it's rare
[04:38] <ddaa> the problem is rather when the race condition occurs but is not detected
[04:38] <ddaa> then the cvs commit can get imported as two bzr commits
[04:39] <ddaa> though... good thing... the way importd is set up now, if the race is detected, the split commit is not recorded...
[04:39] <ddaa> previously, in the case we just had, the split commit was recorded on the first attempt, and stored in the cscvs catalog permanently.
[04:40] <ddaa> Which sucks because then the catalog cannot be rebuilt from scratch.
[04:40] <LarstiQ> how does the 12h help? give the human more time for review?
[04:40] <ddaa> reduces the amount of split commits we get
[04:40] <ddaa> for some cvs repo, commit time can be quite long
[04:40] <ddaa> like... hours...
[04:41] <ddaa> the number of split commits we get in a time period is linear of the sync frequency, but grows explosively if the sync delay is not >> cvs commit duration.
[04:42] <ddaa> something about cvs sucking really badly, you know...
[04:42] <ddaa> svn is better behaved, so the default will be 6h. It's mostly bounded by some things that can be optimised in our system.
[04:46] <ddaa> LarstiQ: also, for most of our use cases, we do not really need imports that up-to-date to the minute.
[05:11] <LarstiQ> ddaa: I understand, 6 hours would already be bearable for me
[05:11] <ddaa> but blender is cvs :)
[05:11] <ddaa> if I were master of the world...
[05:12] <ddaa> I'd give an ultimatum to all the CVS users out there...
[05:12] <LarstiQ> ddaa: well, I can't well advocate the usage of bzr without a good conversion to play with :)
[05:13] <ddaa> "Please guys, get your act toghether and move into the third millenium. Anobody who's still running a CVS server next year will be put in jail."
[05:13] <ddaa> mh
[05:13] <ddaa> "next month"
[05:13] <ddaa> If I were master of the world I would not be this patient :)
[05:14] <ddaa> LarstiQ: I understand. And I'm working right now to fix the "one day latency" problem.
[05:15] <LarstiQ> ddaa: it won't go down under 12h though, if I understood you
[05:15] <ddaa> Well
[05:15] <ddaa> On special request I will be able to set it to arbitrary values.
[05:15] <ddaa> Like 'one week' ;-)
[05:16] <ddaa> or "one hour"
[05:16] <ddaa> then there will also be a UI to allow user to set it.
[05:17] <ddaa> but this UI would depend on not running buildbot to schedule the imports.
[05:17] <ddaa> (for complicated annoying reason that have to do with the limitation of buildbot)
[05:17] <ddaa> (throw in some "s" in the previous sentence)
[05:18] <carlos> If I don't see you next week. Merry Christmas and a happy new year!
[05:18] <ddaa> LarstiQ: so, next month I'll be able to set blender to any reasonable sync interval, since there seem to be a good reason.
[05:19] <ddaa> using database access superpowers
[05:19] <LarstiQ> wee :)
[05:23] <kiko> ddaa, I don't think so 
[05:24] <ddaa> can you ask jamesh to implement it next week? kthxbye!
[05:25] <kiko> lol
[05:25] <ddaa> looks like kiko's IRC client has a bug triggered by the string "lol"...
[08:20] <Ubugtu> New bug: #76903 in launchpad "+claim page for a team crashes" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/76903
[12:00] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!