[02:18] <gouki> Hi! Anyone online?
[02:29] <BHSPitLappy> yo
[11:44] <nysosym> hi all
[11:45] <nysosym> what do u think, that frank will leave the art team? :-/
[11:53] <nysosym> hi andreasn
[11:54] <andreasn> hey nysosym
[11:54] <andreasn> what's up?
[11:54] <nysosym> frank will leave the artwork team :-/
[11:55] <andreasn> ah, yes, he posted some mail to the ubuntu-art list, right?
[11:55] <nysosym> yes
[11:55] <nysosym> that make's me sadly :-(
[11:58] <andreasn> I get e-mail all the time about people signing off the artwork-team thing (from launchpad?)
[12:06] <nysosym> andreasn: so far as i know, completely. He will be the community manager
[03:14] <klepas> elkbuntu: you're here too
[03:15] <elkbuntu> klepas, yes, i am
[03:15] <klepas> how are you holding up?
[03:15] <elkbuntu> good. yourself?
[03:15] <klepas> so-so
[03:15] <klepas> few things bothering me
[03:15] <klepas> other things are good
[03:16] <klepas> merry xmas btw :)
[03:16] <elkbuntu> same to you :)
[03:17] <klepas> i think i've done what Frank has done
[03:17] <klepas> though lacking a long explanatory email
[03:17] <elkbuntu> heh
[03:33] <mhb> klepas: you could have done better :o)
[03:33] <mhb> klepas: I guess informing the public about the situtation and trying to change it would be a better solution
[03:35] <klepas> it's sort useless when i've effectively done what Frank has done, minus the email, from around almost 2 release cycles ago
[03:37] <mhb> klepas: but if you know the whole story I guess you know there's something rotten with the Artwork Team management
[03:38] <mhb> klepas: blogging about it doesn't hurt
[03:38] <klepas> i can't be arsed doing that either
[03:38] <klepas> by now i'm somewhat out of touch of the more recent happenings
[03:38] <klepas> and i don't want to put flamebait on the net
[03:39] <mhb> klepas: your choice
[03:40] <klepas> i'll probably just end up making comments regarding how mark hired people rather than going to the community
[03:40] <klepas> and how ubuntu uses human
[03:40] <klepas> no sources, made by some contracted chaps using proprietary tools
[03:41] <klepas> then the whole crap about trying to reform the art team to work like some design studio
[03:42] <klepas> with design specs no one can be honestly bothered reading
[03:43] <klepas> i can't honestly be bothered at the moment
[03:43] <mhb> klepas: trying to rationalize the artwork doesn't look like a bad idea to me
[03:43] <klepas> maybe after the new year
[03:43] <klepas> or rather after LCA
[03:43] <klepas> that will probably boost my interest in foss again
[03:44] <klepas> mhb: not when it ends up hindering creativity
[03:44] <klepas> there are lots of designers and art-sy people who hate, loathe reading specs
[03:44] <klepas> who just want to dable and then see how well it is received
[03:46] <klepas> i dunno
[03:46] <klepas> two sided blade
[03:46] <mhb> klepas: sure, but don't forget that artwork for an OS is not pure art
[03:46] <klepas> yea
[03:46] <mhb> klepas: you can't experiment that much
[03:47] <mhb> klepas: you have to consider what the user will think - and that's where specifications starts
[03:47] <klepas> experimenting is the way to go, whether it makes it in or not is another thing
[03:47] <klepas> trying new ideas is not bad
[03:48] <klepas> the whole "we must make it look entirely the same, even if it's shite" philosophy personally annoys me after a while
[03:48] <klepas> but overall the biggest was the marks abandonment
[03:48] <klepas> not that i've not contributed
[03:48] <klepas> but yea
[03:48] <klepas> i'll be back in a while to come
[03:48] <klepas> maybe 30 minutes
[03:49] <mhb> okay
[03:58] <troy_s> Look
[03:58] <troy_s> we need to spec the artwork
[03:58] <troy_s> what you are seeing happen now is _exactly_ what happens without a spec
[03:59] <troy_s> further, if you look to the quality of work that actually _does_ get done, it often suffers from inconsistencies and similar traits that simply are avoided by design guidelines and such
[03:59] <troy_s> if you can't be bothered to treat art and design as a formal process and not some leisurely hobby based element,
[03:59] <troy_s> then it probably isn't wise to attempt and develop bits for something.
[03:59] <troy_s> there are lots of designers and art-sy people who hate, loathe reading specs
 who just want to dable and then see how well it is received
[03:59] <troy_s> rubbish
[04:00] <troy_s> there are lots of talented, trained, professional artists and designers who would love to work on free software
[04:00] <troy_s> but loathe the haphazard design decisions, the poor implementation strategies, and the awful 'dabbly' appearance of most work.
[04:01] <troy_s> 2 cents.
[04:30] <msikma> I think that the interface design of many Linux apps also have got to do with it.