| mdke | what do you think of the left/right split? maybe there should be one | 12:18 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | there are something like 14 topics... they won't fit well | 12:19 |
| mdke | we could relegate the "Getting more help" and "Contribute to Ubuntu" topics to the interweb | 12:22 |
| mpt | well, if it was ok to put "Getting more help" on the Web site, people would already know to look on the Web site for more help ;-) | 12:24 |
| mdke | that makes no sense! | 12:25 |
| mdke | all it does it point to the various parts of the internet support community anyway, all it would add is an extra click, to the website | 12:25 |
| mpt | ok, but even if it's just a direct link to the Web site, it still needs to be on the front page | 12:27 |
| mpt | but the number of topics probably could be reduced | 12:28 |
| mdke | oh I see | 12:28 |
| mdke | you're not reading my mind. | 12:28 |
| mdke | What I meant to say was "relegate the X and the Y topics by adding a sentence about them to the front page" | 12:28 |
| mpt | Replace a topic link with a sentence? | 12:29 |
| mpt | Wouldn't that take more room? | 12:29 |
| mpt | I'm probably not understanding | 12:29 |
| mpt | It's too early in the afternoon | 12:29 |
| mdke | well, the sentence would be in the right column | 12:29 |
| mdke | and have a link to the website | 12:29 |
| mdke | the topics would be down the left | 12:29 |
| mdke | mpt: i'll try and do a mockup... it's a bit late, I'm explaining myself badly | 12:31 |
| nixternal | mdke: for a GNOME app :) that looks pretty good | 12:31 |
| mdke | nixternal: check out the scrollback - mpt has some good ideas for your mockup too | 12:31 |
| mdke | or rather, his ideas apply equally | 12:32 |
| mpt | I don't think "Games" or "Programming" are suitable as top-level categories | 12:34 |
| mpt | and "Office" I'm not sure of, either | 12:34 |
| mdke | mpt: what would you do with em? | 12:35 |
| mpt | This isn't an index to everything we have help for, it's help on the OS-in-general | 12:35 |
| mdke | this is true, but it's nice to have documents available from navigation as well as search | 12:35 |
| mpt | Games have their own Help menus | 12:35 |
| mpt | That's the navigation | 12:35 |
| mdke | mpt: do you think that there is value in documents which talk about what extra applications the user can install? that's essentially what those documents do | 12:36 |
| nixternal | mdke: ya, i am going to take some of them into account. we might actually just utilize konqueror with the help:/ linking for our help, since it is better and easier than khelpcenter | 12:38 |
| mpt | Not much | 12:38 |
| mpt | Maybe a few paragraphs in the section on adding/removing software | 12:39 |
| nixternal | im also working upstream on that stuff as well a little bit with kde, awaiting my svn access | 12:39 |
| mpt | under "What software can I install?" | 12:39 |
| nixternal | i do like the fact of making it skinnier so-to-speak in order to allow the user to read it and do it at the same time | 12:39 |
| mdke | mpt: I think you may be right. this would mean essentially nuking games.xml, office.xml and programming.xml | 12:39 |
| nixternal | im not nuking games.xml thats for sure :) | 12:40 |
| === mpt cowers | ||
| nixternal | hehe | 12:40 |
| nixternal | mpt: only because i just got done, or am in the process of finishing the games section :) | 12:40 |
| mdke | I think it sounds sensible. Obviously, the useful bits might integrate well with the add-applications section, as mpt suggests | 12:41 |
| nixternal | oh without a doubt they could fall in the add-applications section | 12:41 |
| nixternal | there is a lot that could fall under that as well | 12:41 |
| nixternal | since the entire games section is about installing games anyways with a brief exerpt about each game | 12:41 |
| mdke | quite | 12:42 |
| mdke | I think I'm with mpt on this, it would also ensure that the topics are focused on substantial sections | 12:42 |
| mdke | not quite sure the best way to proceed, though. Should we seek further views or simply update the wiki page and get on with it? | 12:47 |
| mdke | it seems to me that me, nixternal and mpt are driving this topic-based-help ride so maybe we can just go ahead | 12:48 |
| nixternal | it would be nice to get some extra views, maybe open it up for a few days or so and then if we don't get much, lets just go ahead and rock with it | 12:49 |
| mdke | alright | 12:49 |
| nixternal | holidays will make it difficult right now to get some extra views as well | 12:49 |
| mdke | yes, true | 12:49 |
| nixternal | mdke: maybe a simple blog post could spark the attention we are seeking about it as well | 12:50 |
| nixternal | a "what do you think of this" type post, or unleash it to the wolves in #ubuntu | 12:51 |
| mdke | when I have a good mockup, I'll do that, certainly | 12:51 |
| nixternal | ya, i need to rework mine as well | 12:51 |
| nixternal | ooh, time to roll..dad's birthday | 12:52 |
| nixternal | bbiab | 12:52 |
| mdke | have fun | 12:52 |
| mdke | ah great, I've introduced a crash to yelp with my simple patches :) | 01:07 |
| mdke | aha, invalid html | 01:10 |
| bdmurray | mdke: I have some time over the holidays and wanted to work some more on documentation, but I haven't received an svn password yet. | 01:12 |
| bdmurray | I'm happy to keep sending patches but thought having the write access might be easier. | 01:13 |
| mdke | bdmurray: it's waiting on the admins I'm afraid. They may not be working at the moment, I'll try and find one to get it sped up | 01:13 |
| bdmurray | mdke: no problem, I understand it is the holidays. ;) | 01:14 |
| mdke | chasing up now | 01:14 |
| mdke | mpt: http://mdke.org/tmp/yelp.png (you'll need to help with fixing that bullet pointed list | 01:21 |
| mdke | but, as a draft, is that better? | 01:21 |
| bdmurray | maybe Application Management? That seems more concise | 01:22 |
| mdke | we'll need to improve the names, definitely. The server one is totally out | 01:23 |
| bdmurray | The layout looks better though | 01:23 |
| mdke | mpt: so, those topics can be reduced by 5 (and we can add 2 from Gnome) | 01:23 |
| mdke | net reduction of 3, which should make it an acceptable size | 01:24 |
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| mdke | mpt_: did you see that last mockup? | 01:54 |
| mdke | not sure if you were pinging out | 01:54 |
| mdke | you'd have to have a pretty long pingout, mind | 01:54 |
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| mdke | mpt__: here is one with the topics removed, reordered, and the serverguide reworded: http://mdke.org/tmp/yelp.png | 02:19 |
| mdke | oh crap, not reordered | 02:19 |
| === mdke fixes | ||
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| mdke | mpt_: dude! | 02:40 |
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| mpt__ | mdke, http://mpt.net.nz/temp/ubuntu-help.png | 02:54 |
| mdke | mpt: heh. quite a lot more radical? | 02:55 |
| mdke | also, you get to add topics which we haven't written, that's not fair. I can only work with what we have | 02:58 |
| mdke | mpt: ok, my last try for the night: http://mdke.org/tmp/yelp.png - quick feedback? | 03:07 |
| mdke | it's missing the two topics that would come from Gnome | 03:07 |
| mpt | continuous improvement :-) | 03:10 |
| mdke | mpt: if I get a working patch I think I'll attach it to a bug somewhere. The stuff in the right hand column needs to be made translatable, and we need to improve the css a bit... but I've been struggling so much with the patch system that I'll be pleased to get a patch out of it | 03:12 |
| mpt | ok | 03:12 |
| mpt | The bullets problem might merely be because you don't have <ul> ... </ul> around them | 03:12 |
| mdke | no, I have em | 03:13 |
| mpt | hmm, odd | 03:14 |
| mdke | http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38453/ | 03:14 |
| mdke | bug 76944 | 03:24 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 76944 in yelp "Improve yelp index layout" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76944 | 03:24 |
| mdke | mpt: ok, any more ideas on layout/categories welcome at any time, I am very positive about a great outcome for Feisty | 03:35 |
| mpt | excellent | 03:36 |
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| Ubugtu | New bug: #76952 in ubuntu-doc "basic-concepts.xml is missing the word "them"" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/76952 | 06:05 |
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| mdke | oh great, another tutorial website :( | 12:14 |
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| nixternal | [ mdke] oh great, another tutorial website :( | 08:12 |
| nixternal | haha. they are everywhere | 08:12 |
| nixternal | the more that pops up the more different each howto becomes | 08:12 |
| mdke | such a shame | 08:21 |
| mdke | nixternal: I've written to the guy to ask about why he didn't feel able to contribute directly to the Ubuntu documentation, I suspect however the website makes him money, I don't know | 08:44 |
| nixternal | link me | 08:48 |
| mdke | I'm referring to the tutorial website that arrived on planet today, hang on | 08:48 |
| mdke | http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/ | 08:48 |
| nixternal | oh wow | 08:48 |
| nixternal | ya, i read his post on the planet..the vim one | 08:49 |
| nixternal | wow, each post has adsense garbage | 08:50 |
| mdke | my blog has adsense too, it's earning me well over $0.02 every day | 08:53 |
| nixternal | lol | 08:53 |
| mdke | but maybe he does better :) | 08:53 |
| mdke | and he has a donation button | 08:53 |
| nixternal | i have some as well, but i haven't had one click that i know of | 08:53 |
| mdke | I think I'll remove em, they suck | 08:53 |
| nixternal | ya, me too | 08:53 |
| nixternal | btw, i like your new layout...very clean | 08:53 |
| nixternal | i am going to eventually get around to doing a clean theme hopefully from scratch when i get some time | 08:54 |
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| mdke | nixternal: cool | 09:32 |
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| mdke | hi mpt | 11:33 |
| mdke | mpt: what do you think of this structure of the "New to Ubuntu 7.04?" topic: http://mdke.org/tmp/newtoubuntu.png | 11:35 |
| === mdke loves bugging mpt | ||
| mdke | popey: around? | 11:40 |
| popey | yes | 11:40 |
| mdke | popey: do you fancy trying to set up something like doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts? | 11:41 |
| popey | sure | 11:42 |
| mdke | preferred username? | 11:42 |
| popey | using what? drupal or something? | 11:42 |
| mdke | for logging in | 11:42 |
| popey | in order of preference, alan, popey, alanpope | 11:42 |
| mdke | ok | 11:44 |
| mdke | popey: query | 11:46 |
| popey | already there | 11:47 |
| mdke | ah | 11:47 |
| popey | oh, hang on, am I not identified | 11:47 |
| popey | can you see my replies? | 11:47 |
| mdke | no | 11:47 |
| popey | doh | 11:47 |
| mdke | you'll get an error if you're not identified | 11:47 |
| popey | yeah, in another window waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over there | 11:48 |
| popey | :) | 11:48 |
| === mdke nods | ||
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