[11:58] <Keybuk> well, today's kernel is not full of grace
[12:13] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: I have a udev-related (?) problem with multiple dvb-tuner cards changing the order on reboots. Is there something that could be done with udev rules, or should it be handled elsewhere?
[12:14] <Keybuk> tepsipakki: the order should not matter
[12:14] <Keybuk> it is normal for multiple anything to change order between reboots
[12:15] <Keybuk> from hard drives, to network cards, to sound cards, etc.
[12:15] <tepsipakki> well, basically yes
[12:15] <Keybuk> use software that doesn't rely on the kernel names, but instead uses HAL to identify cards by unique information
[12:16] <tepsipakki> both mythtv and vdr are affected :)
[12:16] <Keybuk> I'm sure they will welcome patches
[12:16] <tepsipakki> well, vdr works, but plugins don't necessarily (mplayer comes in mind, which tries to use the tv-out on the full-feature card)
[12:17] <tepsipakki> does HAL have some cmdline tools that could be used in wrappers?
[12:21] <tepsipakki> anyway, the official answer is: "work around it"?-)
[02:41] <zul> morning
[03:54] <zul> ups store...oh wait you arent in kanata :)
[04:33] <kylem> there, that's one big thing off ye olde todo list.
[04:33] <zul> hey kyle
[04:34] <kylem> yo.
[04:34] <zul> how is it going?
[04:35] <kylem> not too bad, trying to finally beat the last of this damned flu and cold.
[05:45] <btse> Anybody working for Canonical here?
[05:48] <pmjdebruijn> btse, why?
[05:51] <Keybuk> MODALIAS=i82365
[05:51] <Keybuk> BenC: ^ HOLY CHRISTING FUCK!
[05:52] <Keybuk> so I guess the question becomes
[05:52] <Keybuk> "what comes first, the platform device or the module/driver that manges it?"
[06:08] <BenC> Keybuk: chicken-and-egg?
[06:09] <Keybuk> BenC: well, normally a device exists because it's in the system
[06:09] <Keybuk> so the kernel creates it under the bus that manages the device
[06:09] <Keybuk> and a module gets loaded, so that interfaces, etc. exist
[06:09] <Keybuk> for platform, this is trickier
[06:09] <Keybuk> I would still guess that the platform bus should create devices for any hardware
[06:10] <BenC> platform devices seem like black magic from my understanding
[06:10] <Keybuk> so it doesn't make sense for the device to get removed
[06:10] <BenC> I'm not even sure how the driver gets loaded the first time
[06:10] <BenC> isapnpmap doesn't even show it, but the driver has a MODULE_DEV_TABLE:pnp
[06:11] <Keybuk> dunno
[06:11] <Keybuk> I can't boot .20, so can't see
[06:11] <Keybuk> it's definitely utterly bogus that MODALIAS contains a module name!
[06:11] <Keybuk> it should contain a description of the device
[06:11] <Keybuk> e.g. platform:i82365
[06:11] <Keybuk> and the module should export that as an alias
[06:12] <Keybuk> but that still doesn't explain why these platform devices are being removed, and then coming back
[06:15] <BenC> basically the driver does platform_device_alloc(); platform_device_add(), isa_probe() = -ENODEV; platform_device_remove(); module exit with ENODEV
[06:24] <btse> pmjdebruijn: just wondering, what are the exact terms?
[06:24] <pmjdebruijn> btse, exact terms of what?
[06:25] <btse> pmjdebruijn: the employment. are you employed by Canonical?
[06:25] <pmjdebruijn> btse, no...
[06:25] <pmjdebruijn> btse, anyway you should probably contact an official Canonical representative, not just someone on irc
[06:26] <BenC> btse: What did you need to know?
[06:26] <btse> pmjdebruijn: ah, ok, yes I know,
[06:26] <btse> well, is it full-time?
[06:26] <BenC> for most ppl, yes
[06:27] <btse> so I suppose you're getting payed also?
[06:27] <BenC> working for someone usually implies they pay you :)
[06:27] <zul> heh hey BenC 
[06:27] <BenC> hey zul
[06:28] <zul> how is it going?
[06:28] <BenC> slow this morning
[06:28] <btse> BenC:  usually... :-)  looking at their employment page doesn't say much about the conditions though
[06:28] <btse> and they respons slowly
[06:29] <BenC> what position are you interested in?
[06:29] <zul> btse: i hear its a sweat shop ;)
[06:29] <btse> zul: yeah, me too
[06:29] <BenC> zul: I don't sweat, I prespire
[06:29] <kylem> pfft, it's a sweet shop. all the candy i can possible want.
[06:29] <zul> heh
[06:29] <btse> BenC: well, I was just lookign around
[06:29] <zul> mmm...candy..
[06:29] <pmjdebruijn> zul, that's usually somewhere, where they have illegal immegrants working for next to no cash :p
[06:31] <btse> it could be fun to explore your hobby, getting payed for it, work for an international employer without having to relocate
[06:31] <btse> but I suppose this is the wrong forum
[06:31] <BenC> btse: there's lots of travel, and (not complaining, but) full-time usually == more than 40 hours for most of us
[06:32] <Keybuk> BenC: well, that's the bogus bit I think
[06:32] <Keybuk> it shouldn't be adding devices until it knows they exist
[06:32] <btse> travel is fun, flying is great
[06:32] <zul> flying sometimes sucks
[06:32] <btse> waiting yes, flying no
[06:32] <BenC> Keybuk: I'm not sure why there the platform_device_add occurs before the probe...but that also happened in edgy
[06:32] <kylem> flying is great once you get the hang of what not to do.
[06:32] <kylem> like, don't stop flapping your arms.
[06:33] <kylem> even if you get tired.
[06:33] <BenC> lol
[06:33] <btse> hehe, yeah
[06:33] <btse> so BenC what's your position?
[06:33] <BenC> kernel dev
[06:34] <btse> how did you come by it?
[06:34] <BenC> friend
[06:35] <btse> ah, and exactly what do you do? write drivers or mainly apply vanilla patches to the ubuntu kernel?
[06:37] <BenC> bugs, patches, feature development
[06:37] <BenC> are you interested in the kernel dev position?
[06:37] <zul> or major deity
[06:37] <btse> perhaps..
[06:38] <btse> sorry for interrogating you by the way :-)
[07:49] <zul> hah smoke on that xen-image-2.6.19-1.1-generic_2.6.19-1ubuntu1_i386.deb
[09:16] <_MMA_> BenC: Could you take a look at the spec real quick. Im still trying to more help. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaProductionKernel