/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/01/04/#ubuntu-doc.txt

willvdlI only get paid if I do some actual work...12:18
nixternalooh, i guess i wouldn't get paid then :)12:18
willvdlwhich is why wheel reinvention si so fruitful :)12:18
nixternali must say, this contract i am working on is rather simple, but it is a cool job12:18
nixternalonly lasts a few more weeks though12:18
nixternal2 more weeks actually12:18
nixternalwillvdl: i am working on a wheel reinvention/polishing act12:19
willvdlyou're Polish?12:19
nixternalworking on a business management restructuring proposal as well as a new marketing guide for the chicago cubs12:19
nixternalactually, yes i am polish, and swedish, and irish, and american injun12:20
LaserJockthat's a decent mix12:20
nixternali have just enough polish in me to make the dumb poloko jokes w/o getting beat up12:21
LaserJockhaha12:21
nixternalhehe12:21
mdkeit all starts to make sense12:21
nixternalim a 1/4 of each12:21
LaserJockI've kinda lost track of what all I am12:21
nixternalhahah mdke if i ever meet you i will make you pay for that one :)12:21
LaserJockmostly western european12:21
mdkenixternal: :)12:21
nixternalhehe12:21
mdkeI've got some good stuff too12:21
nixternali know there is some italian worked in there with the polish side as well12:21
nixternalbut both of my grandfathers were 100%, one irish, one swedish (hence the Johnson I guess)12:22
nixternalmy dad's mom was 100% chawktaw (i can never spell that)12:22
=== mdke notes that his adsense revenue is spiralling up out of control
nixternaland my only livin' granny is a gentle mix of polish and italian12:23
mdketoday I've had 39 cents, world record!12:23
crimsunChoctaw.12:23
nixternalmdke: i have earned $0.212:23
nixternalerr $.2712:23
nixternalyou have me by 12 cents12:23
nixternalthanks crimsun :)12:23
LaserJockoff the top of my head, that I know of, I think I have  English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, German, French (and French Canadian), and Swiss12:23
mdkenixternal: what's your average?12:23
willvdlwhat do I do with stuff like https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuViaNetBoot?12:23
nixternalstill says 012:23
nixternalfor average12:23
nixternali have had it for over a year12:24
nixternalhahaha12:24
nixternalin 1 year I earned $0.27. I need $99.73 before they cut my first check12:24
mdkeheh12:24
mdkemy average is 23 cents12:24
LaserJockheh12:24
LaserJockI think  my uncle makes something like $300/month on advertising on his website12:25
tonyyarussoHow's adsense work?  How much traffic do you need to make it worthwhile?12:25
mdkehe has a lot more interesting things to say than me, I guess12:25
nixternaldamn, now it says $0.26. Hell, I am actually losing money12:25
mdketonyyarusso: you need to write about the same thing all the time and make it interesting, then have some well placed ads12:25
tonyyarussomdke: Hmm12:26
LaserJockmdke: he runs one of the most used near-death experience websites :/12:26
crimsunyet another reason why I'd make $0 on ads.12:26
nixternali have just a Firefox button now.12:26
mdkewhoosh12:26
nixternali got sick of the the adsense bar with ads for Linspire and Gentoo12:27
nixternal 563   3   0.53%   $0.46   $0.2612:27
nixternalthere is my killer adsense report12:27
nixternalhaha12:27
LaserJockthat stuff just creeps me out12:28
crimsunnothing should faze one-third of the motu trinity.12:29
LaserJockI know12:29
LaserJockbut it's just ridiculous what you can do with an internet connection12:29
willvdlexactly why I'm going to bed now12:30
nixternalhehe12:30
nixternalLaserJock: or can't do with an internet connection12:30
willvdlciao12:30
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mdke3 clicks, that's very good12:31
mdkecrimsun: who are the motu trinity?12:31
crimsunmdke: imbrandon, bddebian, and LaserJock12:31
nixternalhaha12:31
mdkenot you?12:31
nixternalcrimsun is the matrix12:31
crimsungosh no, I'm a mere mortal.12:31
mdkedholbach?12:31
LaserJockmdke: he's the one that rules them all ;-)12:31
nixternalthere is no question that I have seen crimsun not answer12:32
LaserJockcrimsun's the one that does all the work12:32
crimsunthere are plenty, rich12:32
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nixternalman, i sore mpt's domain said ds.testicular.net12:32
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nixternali need food, my eyes are messed up12:32
=== mpt belatedly hugs mdke
mdke:)01:07
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ryanakcanixternal: can I say "oh crap"? This patch I'm writing... it will need to be remade each and every new release of doc-linux-html...02:49
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nixternalewww ryanakca03:47
ryanakcanixternal: my reaction as well :)03:48
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ryanakcanixternal: almost worth writing something to automate it..04:01
nixternalor deleting it :)04:01
ryanakcanixternal: someone in #python and I tried to write a script... didn't work very well04:07
ryanakcayeah... three quarters of the stuff in it is obsolete... aka, written when I was in kindergarten, or before...04:08
nixternallol04:08
ryanakcaI've got 3 hours... and I'm a third done...04:08
nixternali remember living in the linux documentation project in the early to mid 90s04:08
ryanakcaI'm wondering if it's worth the 9 hours of volunteer hours04:08
nixternalback when you had to configure everything before it would work04:09
nixternalootb was the same as cussing back then04:09
ryanakcaearly 90s... '92 was the magic year, eh?04:09
ryanakcaootb?04:09
nixternalout of the box04:09
nixternalno such thing back then04:09
ryanakcaah04:09
nixternalman, i remember when lilo would kill systems04:09
nixternalheh, i remember leaving slackware just a few years back to venture in mepis and then kubuntu. i was like wth is this grub junk :)04:10
=== ryanakca remembers debian in 2004.... hehe... I found it... difficult... probably because it was the first time I had used linux and I was stuck on the command line for a month because I couldn't get Xfree to work... can't imagine having to configure your whole system...
ryanakcadid Xfree86 get renamed to Xorg or something? or are they two different projects? X11?04:11
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ryanakcanixternal: ah, so XFree86 is a project owned by X.Org?04:15
nixternalya, it has been shortened :)04:15
ryanakcakk04:16
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Documentation Team http://doc.ubuntu.com or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam | Get involved! http://www.mdke.org/?p=67 | backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu CoC @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct | Next meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
=== Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by crimsun at Sat Dec 30 01:13:50 2006
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WaterSevenUbI've been a little bit out of phase with docs, perhaps this is already corrected. In the Edgy "Contribute" document, Section "Spreading the Word", there is a reference to "Going Local" which is not hyperlinked, therefore translations won't work.03:22
WaterSevenUbI mean... there should only be one reference to "Going Local" in all the document, to avoid different translations across the document (small, in this case)03:25
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Seveasmdke, ping06:45
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Nafallohi! is this the place to get things on help.ubuntu.com fixed? :-)07:04
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nixternalNafallo: yes07:18
LaserJocknixternal!07:18
LaserJockdo you ever sleep?07:18
nixternaloi JockStrap07:18
nixternalim always asleep07:19
Nafallohttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwedishDocumentation07:19
Nafallo:-P07:19
LaserJocknixternal: haha, very funny07:19
LaserJock;-)07:19
nixternalahhh, Nafallo that is open for you to fix as well :)07:19
nixternalthat is the community wiki07:19
nixternalholy cow them are some wild colors on that page07:19
Nafalloit is? :-P07:20
nixternalok, i see that as a pretty major error there :)07:20
LaserJocknixternal: swedes *rolling eyes*07:20
nixternalwatch it now :)07:20
NafalloLaserJock: lol07:20
Nafallosame? :-)07:21
nixternali might be chicagoan, but damnit my last name is either Swedish or African American07:21
LaserJocknixternal: hah07:21
nixternalim guessing swedish as my great grandparents moved from there to chicago in the 1800's07:21
nixternal;)07:21
Nafallo:-)07:22
LaserJockI haven't found any swedish in me yet07:22
LaserJockbut I'm sure it's there somewhere07:22
Nafalloso how to fix the damn thing so moinmoin doesn't crash? ;-)07:22
nixternali wonder if #language or whatever will fix that?07:22
mdkeSeveas: pong07:24
mdkeSeveas: (just leaving a message works too)07:24
Seveasmdke, what's the rt mailaddress? :)07:25
mdkeI'm pm you it07:25
Seveasgracias07:25
mdkeSeveas: is that about pastebin?07:26
nixternalNafallo: take a look at it now :)07:26
nixternali found the issue07:26
nixternali just don't know wth it really is07:26
Nafallonixternal: thanks :-)07:26
Nafallohhaha07:27
nixternalhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/464/07:27
nixternal^^ that is what caused the issue07:27
Seveasdamn the pastebin is slow...07:27
nixternalpastebin was rather quick for me07:28
mdkeyou must have connected first and hogged the connections :)07:28
nixternalhehe07:29
nixternalim sure i did07:29
nixternalmdke: i can't believe i didn't see the answer to the info dialog with the lp doc07:29
mdkethe same point you raised also struck me07:29
nixternalalso, you replied to just me in that email if you hadn't noticed already, or unless you meant to do that07:29
mdkeoh, crap07:29
nixternallol07:29
mdkeno, I didn't notice that07:30
mdkeI'll do it again07:30
nixternalok, i figured i would let you know instead of forwarding it07:30
nixternaljust to be safe07:30
Nafalloanyway, problem solved...07:30
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mdkeWaterSevenUb: can you explain more?07:32
nixternalhrmm. amazing what you can read when you scroll up :)  i was wondering what you were asking him to explain07:35
WaterSevenUbmdke, System, Help, System Documentation, Contributing to Ubuntu, "Going Local" section on the left. "Going Local!" reference appears on section "Spreading the Word" (the fourth one in the list). In the .PO "Going Local!" appears in two different places, and therefore, may have different translations if no one reviews the document carefully. There should be one title in the .PO "Going Local!" and then reference it to pick up the trans07:35
WaterSevenUblations..07:35
WaterSevenUbmdke, and.... nice catch in the log ;)07:35
WaterSevenUb(hope that was clearer)07:36
mdkeWaterSevenUb: yes, clear now. If there are two entries in the po, that means the phrases must have a difference... any idea what it is?07:38
WaterSevenUbmdke, hhhmm... perhaps not clear enough :-) I was just asking that the sentence "Join or start a Local Community Team - if you like07:39
WaterSevenUb        Ubuntu, it is likely that others around you like it as07:39
WaterSevenUb        well! See the "Going Local!" section for details."07:39
WaterSevenUbwhen reference "Going Local!" use a link rather than plain text.07:39
mdkeheh07:39
mdketotally clear now07:39
WaterSevenUbi.e., use a link with the content of "Going Local!" translation ...07:40
mdkeI'll fix that now, but only for Feisty, it won't be fixed in Edgy, I'm afraid07:41
mdkedone07:41
WaterSevenUbmdke, don't worry, no problem since the document is small. In larger documents becomes a problem in our distributed translation model :)07:42
WaterSevenUband thank you.07:42
mdkethanks for submitting it07:43
WaterSevenUbbtw do you plan a new u-docs upload in Edgy or what you said is just because there won't be any upload?07:44
mdkeI've applied for permission to do a new upload with some fixes to important bugs, but they haven't considered it yet07:44
mdkeas for translations, we could do one, what do you think?07:45
WaterSevenUbyou can easily make a diff of new translations vs last upload per language, right? I guess there are languages with no changes and languages with a lot of changes.... so, I don't know:)07:47
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mdkeWaterSevenUb: not easily, no07:49
WaterSevenUbwell sometimes a few string changes with corrections are as important as 100 new strings translated. Anyway, imho I would upload only if there is a request of some team member.07:53
WaterSevenUbsome script to easily generate statistics from all the ubuntu docs documents would be of great help for you :)07:54
mdkewell, the problem is that we have to download the po files and then repair all the errors before we can analyse the changes07:55
mdkedanilo showed me how to ensure that I can upload fixes we do to translations back to rosetta, but I haven't implemented that yet07:59
WaterSevenUbhhmm... that seems great to ease your work. I guess the only thing that you (can) do with small effort is to compare UDOC_LC_versionX.po with UDOC_LC_versionY and make a report for every language of Changed, New, Unchanged... strings...08:02
mdkesounds a bit complicated08:03
mdkewe haven't even got the basics working yet :D08:03
WaterSevenUb:)08:04
somerville32Where are things like "&printng;" defined?08:23
mdkesomerville32: if it's a menu entry in an Ubuntu document, then the answer is trunk/ubuntu/menus/C/printing.xml and trunk/ubuntu/libs/ubuntu-menus.ent08:24
mdkeif it's something else in a Kubuntu/Xubuntu document, then you'll have to point it out08:24
somerville32Xubuntu doc08:24
somerville32and it is a menu entry08:24
mdkeerm. It's not defined at all, afaics08:25
mdkewhere did you see it?08:25
somerville32I'm editing08:25
somerville32aka, I added it :] 08:26
somerville32So I created a new xml file in menus/C/08:26
mdkethat's right08:26
somerville32and I need to edit libs/ubuntu-menus.ent now?08:26
mdkethen add it to xubuntu/libs/xubuntu.ent08:26
mdkethere isn't an ubuntu-menus.ent for xubuntu08:26
somerville32kk08:26
mdkesomerville32: we'll look forward to your patch :)08:27
somerville32:D08:28
=== somerville32 hugs mdke.
somerville32Ok08:35
somerville32patch ready! :D08:35
mdkesend it and ping luzi about it too to make sure all is ok08:36
somerville32mdke: I dunno if luzi is still around. Luzi said that he wasn't going to be able to devote too much time.08:37
somerville32Infact, I don't think anyone has touched Xubuntu documentation since breezy08:40
somerville32mdke: Can you confirm that?08:42
mdkeok, we'll do something else. Hang on, phone08:42
somerville32k08:45
somerville32mdke: Is it alright for me to e-mail the patch or are we going to do something different?08:59
mdkepls email, yeah (still phone)09:02
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somerville32mdke: sent09:10
mdkesomerville32: right, I'll give you some feedback on the patch now, if you like. then, you promise me you'll be a good boy in future, and I'll fast track your svn access through09:19
somerville32ok :] 09:19
mdkenumber one, did you use the validate.sh script?09:19
mdkealways use it before committing/making a patch09:20
somerville32If I say no, will you promise not to hit me too hard?09:20
somerville32I thought that maybe it would be used in the makefile09:20
mdkewell, I know the answer, cos I can see the error. Course I won't hit you09:20
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mdkehi JR09:21
Riddellwho's doing UWN?09:21
mdkeRiddell: #ubuntu-marketing, corey tends to boss it around, I believe09:21
somerville32I am09:22
somerville32Well, Corey and I are the "chief-editors"09:22
somerville32mdke: Which file specifically has the errors?09:22
tonyyarussoMeaning, somerville32 has to do the dirty work now and Burg beats on him if it's wrong ;)09:22
somerville32haha09:23
tonyyarussoRiddell: Why do you ask?09:23
mdkesomerville32: you need to use the validate script on desktopguide.xml09:23
Riddelltonyyarusso: I have something to add but it seems to be in a password restricted gobby session09:23
Riddellsomerville32: how do I add something?09:23
tonyyarussoRiddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies09:23
somerville32Riddell: ufl@ftw09:23
tonyyarussoRiddell: The password and server info is all there, and you can either add directly, or drop stuff on the Ideas page09:24
Riddellwhy is it on gobby instead of just the wiki?09:25
mdkebecause the wiki doens't permit two people to edit at the same time, I'll guess09:25
Riddellis that much of a problem mid week?09:26
mdkeI assumed it was only done during some kind of sprint finish09:26
mdkesomerville32: ?09:26
mdkesomerville32: deal with Riddell first then we'll go through these errors09:27
somerville32Riddell: We were working on it last night09:27
somerville32Riddell: 3-4 of us. However, tonyyarusso can import back to the wiki.09:27
Riddellmeh, don't, I'm editing gobby now! :)09:28
somerville32:D09:28
tonyyarussothat reminds me...I was going to upload a file to the wiki for DBO09:28
somerville32mdke: That error is scarry09:28
tonyyarussooops09:28
mdkesomerville32: no, it's actually not bad. I think maybe you'll get more errors when you fix the first one09:28
mdkesomerville32: so &printing; didn't work, as you can see09:29
somerville32Worked for me :/09:29
mdkeyeah, there's a simple reason :)09:29
mdkeyou didn't include it in your patch09:29
nixternalmdke: do we have anything that is top priority for the tbh stuff as of right now? (besides adding content)09:30
mdkedo "svn add filename" then redo the patch09:30
mdkenixternal: merging the book is number one for me09:30
nixternalhow are you going about doing that?09:30
nixternalactually, merging won't be so much with Kubuntu as there is one brief chapter, which is nice09:31
somerville32mdke: So, what does the error mean?09:31
mdkewell, by finding out things that are in the book and not in our docs, then adding them, but modifying the language so that it's appropriate for on-screen help09:31
=== nixternal gets to reading the book
mdkesomerville32: can you pastebin it? Because I'm missing the printing file, I think it's likely that my error is different to yours09:31
somerville32http://pastebin.ca/30542609:33
mdkesomerville32: yes, it is a different one :)09:34
mdkethat's the one that I saw in the patch09:34
mdkeok, the first bit tells you the filename and the line the error is on09:34
=== somerville32 nods.
mdkethen it says "element note content does not follow the DTD", which means that the contents of the <note> tag are not in compliance with the rules09:35
WaterSevenUb(About your discussion on Wiki vs. Gobby for UWN ... If a team wants to start translating the UWN, what steps should it follow? Do you freeze the UWN on the release day? Do you usually use Gobby? How do we get access to the server? Thank you.)09:35
mdkethen it tells you ALL the different possible contents for a <note> tag09:35
mdkethen lastly, it tells you what it got instead (CDATA, which means text)09:36
mdkein plain english:09:36
mdkeyou need to do <note><para>Text</para></note>09:36
somerville32WaterSevenUb: ask in #ubuntu-marketing please :)09:37
somerville32mdke: Ah! k :)09:37
mdkesomerville32: I explained it long hand so that you can figure out any other errors you get in the future09:37
mdkefix that, then run the validate script again09:38
mdkethen do the "svn add" thing, resend the patch, and promise faithfully to always use the validate script on stuff09:38
=== somerville32 promises.
mdkeok, cool09:38
somerville32somerville32@serenity:~/code/xubuntu-documentation/xubuntu/desktopguide/C$ ../../../validate.sh desktopguide.xml09:39
somerville32somerville32@serenity:~/code/xubuntu-documentation/xubuntu/desktopguide/C$09:39
somerville32:D09:39
mdkeI'll apply for you to have svn access. It should not take too long. If anyone gets jealous, you were fast tracked because xubuntu needs more contributors and you are a well known Xubuntu legend09:40
somerville32lol09:40
mdkenixternal: we should do the same for Edubuntu (will and whoever else we judge to be reasonably competent with docbook)09:40
somerville32I've never been called that before09:40
somerville32Thanks :] 09:40
nixternalhehe, if anyone gets jealous :)09:41
mdkeyw. See if you can drum up some more contributors09:41
mdkenixternal: IT MIGHT HAPPEN09:41
nixternalim jealous09:41
mdkeheh09:41
nixternalfor edubuntu cbx33 and ogra come to mind for access. I have no clue where everyone else went that was helping me09:42
nixternaloh ya and will of course if he needs/wants it09:42
popeymdke: uk09:42
popeyer, ok09:42
nixternalhee09:42
nixternaler, hehe09:42
mdkenixternal: nod09:42
mdkepopey: now then. mod_rewrite first I think09:43
somerville32ok09:43
popeyi checked and that seems to be there09:43
somerville32updated patch submitted09:43
mdkesomerville32: good job :)09:43
mdkepopey: damn09:43
somerville32Thanks :] 09:43
nixternali would say hedgemage but i have no idea where she went. i hope everything is ok with her and her family. i know her husband was having some military injury complications (nothing life threatening)09:43
mdkepopey: it's rewrite.load is it?09:44
popeyalan@hudson:/srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/screencasts$  grep -R  mod_rewrite /etc/apache2/09:44
mdkeyes09:44
popey/etc/apache2/mods-enabled/rewrite.load:LoadModule rewrite_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_rewrite.so09:44
somerville32mdke: When will I know if I got svn access?09:45
nixternalsomerville32: you will get an email09:45
mdkesomerville32: when they email your password to you09:45
nixternalencrypted09:45
somerville32mdke: Alright. Are you going to apply my patch?09:45
mdkesomerville32: yes09:45
mdkepopey: so the obvious solution is out the window09:45
popeyany thing in error.log?09:46
mdkelet's see09:46
popeyobviously it works on my server so comparisons can be made09:46
popeyright, i have it i think09:47
popeyAllowOverride AuthConfig09:47
popeyactually09:48
popeycould be09:48
popeyAllowOverride All09:48
popeyhttp://www.chovy.com/web-development/mod-rewrite-rules-you-can-live-with/09:49
mdkeerror.log isn't helpful09:49
popey"AllowOverride All will allow you to use mod rewrite rules in your .htaccess file."09:49
popeycan you set allowoverrid all in my virtual host config?09:49
mdkeoh, you think .htaccess isn't turned on at all?09:49
popeyit appears not09:49
mdkeI think I'll turn it on globally09:49
mdkeis #AccessFileName .htaccess09:50
mdkeenough?09:50
popeyyeah09:50
popey./screencasts/.htaccess09:50
mdkeI don't need AllowOverride as well?09:50
popeyi believe you need that as well, yes09:51
popeyI thought you meant "is it enough to use just that filename"09:51
mdkesearch for .htaccess in apache2.conf and read the lines above and below it, and let me know what I need09:51
somerville32If you set AllowOverride All, you can change pretty much any of your vhost settings in the .htaccess file09:52
mdkedoes that need to be inside <Directory>?09:52
popeyto be fair you only need to change it in doc.ubuntu.com09:52
popeyand yes, it can be09:52
mdkeI might as well enable it generally09:52
popeyyes, uncomment that chunk above the AccessFileName line09:53
mdkethose 4 lines. What about the bit below it?09:54
popeyyes09:54
mdkeleave that?09:54
popeythat needs to be there or people can browse to http://doc.ubuntu.com/foo/bar/.htaccess09:54
popeyand see all kinds of naughtyness09:54
popeyyou don't want to serve that file up09:54
mdkefine09:54
popeyhttp://quickones.org/.htaccess <-- it should do that09:54
mdkeok, see if it works now09:55
popeydid you reload?09:56
mdkeyes09:56
popeynope, still fails09:57
popeyhttp://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/faq is the test case09:57
popeyyou can turn on the trace level of mod_rewrite to see if anything appears in the error log09:57
mdkeok09:58
mdkehow?09:58
=== popey checking http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_rewrite.html
somerville32mdke: Is svn access managed through the rt?09:59
mdkesomerville32: that's right09:59
popey RewriteLogLevel Level  ?09:59
mdkepopey: where?10:01
popeygood question10:01
popeyahh, hang on10:02
popeymay have found something10:03
=== mdke wonders if we need RewriteEngine On
popeyno, i have that in .htaccess10:03
mdkeah10:03
popeyi don't think rewrite is working10:04
popeyat all10:04
popeyfor example in my htaccess i have a ErrorDocument 404 /index.php10:04
popeywhich it is ignoring10:05
mdkeright10:05
mdkeit should be working, because I notice that they've configured it for the old days when help.ubuntu.com was on that server10:05
popeyaha!10:05
popeyyou have it enabled in apache2.conf10:06
popeybut disabled in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/doc.ubuntu.com10:06
popeyso i guess that overrides apache2.conf?10:06
popey        <Directory /srv/doc.ubuntu.com/www/>10:06
popey                Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews10:06
popey                AllowOverride None10:06
mdkeoh dear10:06
=== popey mails the server admin
popey        ServerAdmin mdke@ubuntu.com10:07
popeyD'oh!10:07
mdkeheh10:07
mdkeok, works now. Good job10:08
popeyw000t10:08
popeywe rock10:08
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mdkewell, not sure about we, but you do anyway10:09
popeyok, i need to edit all the urls to point to the local videos, but that's easy, need to tweak the faq and other bits and bobs10:09
popeywill do that tonight/tomorrow10:09
popeynext?10:09
popeyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam ?10:09
mdkeya10:09
mdkeit might be an idea to have the faq and similar things on the wiki, actually10:09
popeyagreed, I will type it up where it is10:10
popeythen we can just move it10:10
popeypoint the site at the wiki - easy enough10:10
mdkegreat. Something like ScreencastTeam/FAQ10:10
popeyyup10:10
mdkeI've noticed quite  alot of docs at ScreenCasts too10:10
popeyyes, i was brain dumping10:10
popeyi am simplifying that lot10:11
mdkedo you think those could become useful for the team, or did you envisage them to be more general10:11
popeyyes10:11
popeyI have started on a simplified version10:11
popeyproblem is some people like to use different tools10:11
popeyand there are alot of screencasting tools to use10:11
popeyI should really focus on the one I use, as that works10:12
popey(although now well for some people)10:12
mdkewell, the team should definitely have standard tools10:12
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mdkeobviously the ones you are using now are the obvious candidates, if people want to change them, they can suggest the changes and try and justify them later on10:13
popeyok, that's good, I have found a set that works for me10:13
popeyyes10:13
popeyor debug why the one I am using isn't working for them10:13
popey(by the way I tried to join the moderated doc team on launchpad, any reason that I should not have been accepted?)10:14
mdkesorry, brb10:16
popeynp10:17
mdkepopey: the moderated doc team is for people with svn access really.10:24
popeyahh, ok10:26
popeythat's fine10:26
popeyok, so "how to contribute"10:26
popeywe need some way to capture requested screencasts10:27
popeya wiki page? ScreencatTeam/requests ?10:27
mdkeyes, with a capital R. Do you have a page like that already?10:28
popeywell, not so much requested, as planned10:28
popeymaybe I could put those in10:28
popeyit's on my personal wiki10:28
popeyhttp://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos10:29
popeyI would also like to have a page (as I have on my wiki) detailing each one10:29
mdkeeach request?10:29
popeythat way people can add to it before it gets made - not only make requests for the screencasts, but also the content10:29
popeyok, here is an example..10:29
popeyhttp://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos/WhatAreTheComponents10:30
mdkeok, we can use the same structure as on your wiki10:30
popeyis one I think would be good10:30
popeyok, cool10:30
mdkeand make a template for requests10:30
popeyyes10:30
popeyi had a kind of template http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos/WatchingVideos10:30
popeythat layout10:31
mdkeok10:31
popeyso people understand whats going to be in it before it is recorded10:32
popeyand people could add to that10:32
popeywe could also juggle the list on the Requests page to prioritise them10:32
mdkewe can use a little box10:32
popeyat the moment I am just plucking them off a list10:32
mdkepeople simply insert the name of their request in the box, the template appears, and they fill it out10:32
popeysounds whizzy10:33
mdkethen they save the page and it appears in the list of requests on the parent page10:33
popeycan you do that?10:33
mdkeyes. it's easy10:33
popeyhow about a vote system?10:33
popeypeople ++ the ones they would like to see?10:33
popeyor is that OTT?10:33
mdkethat's interesting. Can Launchpad help with that?10:34
mdkeif not, manually would work10:34
popeyok, can I leave that to you? or someone else?10:34
mdkewe can sort it out when we have the request list working10:34
popeyok, cool10:35
mdkethe other aspect of "How to Contribute" is a guide to helping people get involved10:35
popeyhow so?10:35
mdkewell, telling them how they can make a screencast and join the team10:37
popeyright, part of that is tha guide10:37
mdkeis there already one in existence?10:38
popeynot a good one10:39
popeyI am distilling the rather verbose and technical one I wrote10:39
mdkeok10:42
mdkeplenty of time10:42
popeyjust typing up what is to-do10:42
mdkecool. I will update the wiki page in a bit10:42
mdkeLaunchpad Policy - any initial thoughts?10:43
popeywith respect to membership?10:43
mdkewhat sort of contribution workflow do you envisage?10:43
popeyi dont right now10:43
mdkeI notice ubuntuclips has a mechanism for visitors to submit clips for evaluation10:43
popeynot sure what is possible with launchpad wrt workflow10:43
mdkeit would be nice to do that10:43
popeyyes10:43
popeyok then..10:44
popeyi would envisage that people should submit a spec for one10:44
mdkeyou mean the template discussed earlier?10:44
popeyrather than submit a video, because once the video is made (time consuming) to throw it away and ask for it to be recreated is a bit much10:44
popeyyes10:44
mdkeok10:44
mdkeand then discussion on mailing list, you think?10:45
mdkeis there a way for a video to be submitted for evaluation in the cms?10:46
popeyuhm10:47
popeythere can be yes10:47
popeyit's very easy to knock a contact page up with specific fields like URL to video10:47
popeyyou don't want them uploading10:48
mdkein that case, contribution requires the ability to host10:48
mdkedo you immagine that would be a limiting factor on contribution?10:48
popeyno, not if people upload to google/youtoob10:48
popeyand submit a url to that10:48
mdkeok, that's the way to go10:49
popeythen if accepted we ask for them to send us the video proper - the master10:49
popeyor they can upload to archive.org for nothing10:49
mdkegoogle/youtube sounds fine10:49
popeybut we really don't want people uploading any old crud to d.u.c10:49
mdkesure10:50
popeywe would have to start sanity checking it10:50
mdkeas for the Launchpad team, it should probably be the people who have access to actually add new videos10:50
mdkein which case membership policy should be "moderated"10:50
mdkemake sense?10:51
popeyyes10:51
mdkewe can add people who submit a few videos which get approved10:52
mdke?10:52
popeyyes10:52
mdkeok, anything else you wanted to talk about?10:52
popeyuser maint is easy, they register themselves, we tick a box that says they can upload10:52
popeyjust need to summarise my to-do list10:52
mdkeI'll write up what we've discussed on the wiki10:52
popeyoh ok10:52
mdkein terms of what is ready to be presented already on the ScreencastTeam page10:53
popeyhere's what I have as my to-do10:53
popey* Update URLs in existing videos to point to local videos10:53
popey* Update quickones site to redirect all visits to doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts10:53
popey* Migrate & reformat http://popey.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VideoDemos to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Requests10:53
popey* Create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/RequestTemplate10:54
popey* Update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/HowToRecordScreencasts10:54
popey* Update google video texts to point to d.u.c/s10:54
mdkescratch the "HowTo" part (personal itch of mine)10:54
mdkeRecordingScreencasts10:55
popey* Modify FAQ then migrate to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/FAQ10:55
popeyok10:55
mdkeand it should probably be ScreencastTeam/Requests/Template10:55
popeyok10:56
mdkelooks fabulous to me10:57
popey:)10:58
popeyI am happy that it's moving forward10:58
mdkeme too10:59
mdkejust finishing the wiki page11:00
=== mdke narrowly avoids RSI
mdkepopey: let's disable the forum section too, and we even point "Contact" to the main wiki page11:06
mdkewiki page is ready for your review, btw11:06
popeycool11:08
popeyforums disabled11:10
popeycontact form disabled also11:10
mdkeonce you create those two pages linked on that, I'll do the form for submitting new specs, then I think we can do some publicity11:11
popeyok11:11
popeyI am adding a link at the top right next to the "Home" tab to link to the launch pad team page, and one to the wiki page11:11
popeywhat do you want the titles to be?11:11
popeyjust Team and Wiki ?11:12
mdkehmm.11:13
mdkenot Wiki, it's not very descriptive. Contribute?11:13
popeyhttp://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/ how does that look?11:15
mdkepretty sweet11:15
mdkeI wonder if we should hide the left hand column11:15
mdkeis user reg needed for comments?11:16
popeyno11:17
popeythey are moderated11:17
mdkeso, assuming the login is only needed for uploading screenshots, we could happily hide it..., and we need to get rid of "Create Content" anyway, because it's superceded by "Contribute"11:18
popeytrue11:18
popeyit's messy11:18
popeydone11:19
popeyno blocks either side11:19
popeyto be honest the whole site is not really needed11:20
popey:)11:20
mdkeUser Login is still there11:20
mdkeanyway, the comments column on the right was ok, wasn't it?11:20
popeyah, ok, i don't see that because I am logged in11:20
mdkenod11:20
popeyyeah, thought that was next on your cull list though11:20
popeyand if people DO register they need some way to login11:20
mdkebut if you remove the User Login thing, they won't register11:22
mdkethey can just post comments anonymously11:22
popeythey can11:22
mdkeso we can get rid of the concept of registration/logging in (except for those uploading videos), and retain comments, right?11:23
popeyas I say this site is going to become a bit redundant if we can just migrate the content to the wiki surely?11:23
popeywhat's wrong with each entry being a wiki page?11:23
popeybrb11:24
mdkepopey: I think it works well to have the published content on an official looking site, and plus, the wiki wouldn't handle all those attachments very well :)11:24
mdkepopey: couple of minor things: probably the license post can be un-stickied (although it should be made clear somewhere), the title of the cms is still quickones.org and11:27
mdkeand nothing!11:27
somerville32With SVN, what does G mean?11:33
somerville32ie. G    about/xubuntu-index.html11:33
mdkehmm11:34
mdkesomerville32: it means you have a local modification which is inconsistent with an update that has been done on the server11:34
somerville32And... why would that occur if you applied my patch? lol11:34
mdkei.e. you changed something after making the patch,11:34
somerville32Can't be11:35
somerville32All the files I edited are marked G11:35
mdkebizarre11:35
somerville32However, svn status doesn't show the G11:35
mdkeeven more bizarre11:35
mdkedelete them and do "svn up". or alternatively, read the svn docs :)11:35
somerville32At my the latest revision11:35
=== popey returns
mdkeI'm confident I applied the correct patch11:36
somerville32Err...11:36
=== somerville32 nods.
somerville32Are you sure G means that?11:36
popeyok, good, i was in two minds about whether to keep that site or not, and the fact that we can't easily embed in the wiki solves that :)11:36
mdkenot 100%11:36
mdkepopey: cool11:37
somerville32mdke: "The U and G codes are no cause for concern; those files cleanly absorbed changes from the repository."11:40
trappistG is merge.  you have a local change that was left intact while a change from the repo was merged to the file.11:40
somerville32The changes being my changes11:41
trappistlike, your change wasn't in the same place as the other change11:41
mdkethat's very odd, given that I simply applied his patch11:41
somerville32From the odcs11:41
somerville32*docs11:41
somerville32It looks like if you have local changes, you'll get G11:41
somerville32So, the changes were the same11:41
trappistsomerville32: or C :)11:41
somerville32So it "merged" correctly11:42
somerville32So I got a G11:42
trappistG is good11:42
trappistC is bad11:42
somerville32Right11:42
mdkewhy did it need to merge at all?11:42
somerville32mdke: Because I was a revision behind11:42
mdkeit should have been identical11:42
somerville32Right, it was11:42
mdkehmm. Ok11:43
mdkehi trappist!11:43
trappistmdke: if the local change was the same as the upstream change, I think that results in a merge - if it was slightly different you'd get a conflict (C) and if it wasn't there at all you'd get a U (update)11:43
trappistheya mdke :)11:43
=== somerville32 nods.
mdkepopey: are we done? thanks very much for this evening11:45
somerville32In svn status, I still have this: A      menus/C/printing.xml11:45
mdkeoh crap11:46
mdkeI need to add that too, even though you already added it in your patch11:46
mdkethat's crazy, but still11:46
mdkedone11:47
somerville32lol11:47
somerville32now I get errors :] 11:47
popeymdke: we are, just playing around with the site right now, will do the to-do list over the next 24 hours, thanks for all your "input" :) *much* appreciated11:48
mdke:)11:48
somerville32How do I remove a file from svn?11:48
somerville32svn del?11:48
nixternalsomerville32: svn revert menus/C/printing.xml11:48
nixternalthen 'svn update'11:48
nixternalw/o the quotes11:48
somerville32I already did svn del11:49
somerville32And it appears to have worked with the svn update11:49
mdkesvn status shows?11:50
somerville32?      feisty_update.diff11:50
somerville32!      .11:50
somerville32!      menus11:50
somerville32doh11:51
mdkeuse "rm" then "svn up"11:51
somerville32rm menus or what?11:51
mdkeyes, rm -r menus11:52
somerville32Perfect.11:55
popeymdke: one last thing - I need a cron job creating on that box12:03
popey05 * * * * root /usr/bin/wget -O - -q http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/cron.php12:03
mdkepopey: ok12:04
mdkepopey: I'm not used to seeing "root" in a line. Don't I just sudo crontab -e and then insert the necessary stuff?12:04
popeythat was taken directly from /etc/crontab12:05
popeybut yes12:05
mdkeok, I'll stick to what I'm used to, I guess12:05
popeysure12:06
mdkeeach hour?12:06
popeyI will soon poke you if it tells me it last ran 13 hours ago (as it does now)12:06
popeyyeah12:06
popeyany number of mins past12:06
mdkealright, done12:06
popeycool, ta12:06
popeyhow many mins?12:06
mdke0512:06
popey$ date12:07
popeyThu Jan  4 18:04:53 EST 200712:07
mdkejust in time :)12:07
popey\o/12:07
mdkeworky?12:07
popeycron2007-01-04 23:05Cron run completedAnonymous12:07
popey\o/12:07
popeythanks12:07
mdkenp12:08
mdkegood night12:08
popeynn12:09
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