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| willvdl | well if edubuntugirl quits then I might as well go sleep | 02:04 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 03:11 |
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| Joey_ | ? | 04:18 |
| Joey_ | hello | 04:19 |
| Joey_ | ? | 04:19 |
| Joey_ | NickServ | 04:19 |
| LaserJock | hi | 04:19 |
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| Amaranth | sorry, setting something up | 08:20 |
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| willvdl | cbx33: lovely work on the leaflet | 12:02 |
| cbx33 | willvdl: been waiting for u | 12:05 |
| cbx33 | you like it? | 12:05 |
| willvdl | I do. waiting for feedback from CJA | 12:05 |
| cbx33 | ok excellent | 12:06 |
| willvdl | it's not easy choosing info for a 2 pg but you got it right I reckon | 12:06 |
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| cbx33 | you sure? | 12:08 |
| cbx33 | I took bits from everywhere | 12:08 |
| cbx33 | jono said he thought it looked ok too | 12:08 |
| willvdl | yip. My only worry was would the reader see where to get more information which is why I put the website in at the bottom | 12:11 |
| willvdl | even though you already have it int the banner at the bottom | 12:11 |
| cbx33 | no that's a good idea | 12:11 |
| willvdl | !seen mhz | 12:15 |
| ubotu | I haven't seen mhz recently | 12:15 |
| willvdl | hey cbx33, I remember you coming up with the idea of an "archive" for old but interesting wiki pages | 12:16 |
| willvdl | any idea on how one could do it? | 12:17 |
| cbx33 | hmm | 12:17 |
| cbx33 | basically I suppose just make a page titles archive | 12:17 |
| cbx33 | and link to them | 12:17 |
| cbx33 | kinda like our cleanup page | 12:17 |
| cbx33 | just put the link with a short description of why we are keeping it | 12:18 |
| willvdl | yeah, cause moving them to /Archive with redirects from the original would be pointless :) | 12:18 |
| willvdl | (my first idea) | 12:18 |
| cbx33 | heh | 12:19 |
| cbx33 | when will we hear from CJA? | 12:19 |
| willvdl | So you reckon like a wiki.e.o/EdubuntuArchive with a list of all of them. That way they have a parent, are easy to find and we don't need an extra Category | 12:19 |
| cbx33 | oh and I managed to save money on my train ticket too ;) | 12:19 |
| willvdl | I'll ping her now | 12:19 |
| cbx33 | willvdl: that sounds like an excellent idea | 12:19 |
| willvdl | :) hanging on the side? | 12:19 |
| cbx33 | heh | 12:20 |
| willvdl | it's your idea | 12:20 |
| cbx33 | kinda ;) | 12:20 |
| willvdl | ;) | 12:20 |
| cbx33 | hope it's liked ;) | 12:20 |
| willvdl | okie, she is drafting a reply to me with some "minor text changes" - good news | 12:23 |
| cbx33 | excellent | 12:23 |
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| cbx33 | hey jsgotangco | 12:29 |
| cbx33 | long time no see | 12:29 |
| jsgotangco | cbx33: yeah happy new year dude | 12:29 |
| cbx33 | hapy new year | 12:29 |
| jsgotangco | cbx33: i've been busy towards the end of the year but normalising | 12:29 |
| jsgotangco | cbx33: how are you doing? | 12:30 |
| willvdl | jsgotangco, hey | 12:31 |
| jsgotangco | willvdl: hi! how are you doing happy new year! | 12:32 |
| willvdl | very good. you? How's work looking? | 12:34 |
| jsgotangco | oh its alright, there are many things to do for this year so ive been busy, but somehow, im getting some time to experiment with linux again | 12:34 |
| jsgotangco | so probably before the month ends i'll be doing stuff again | 12:34 |
| cbx33 | YAY | 12:35 |
| highvoltage | 1895 1749 | 12:36 |
| highvoltage | oops, wrong keyboard :p | 12:36 |
| highvoltage | hi jsgotangco willvdl and cbx33 | 12:36 |
| jsgotangco | anyways i need a new laptop for sure | 12:37 |
| cbx33 | hey highvoltage | 12:37 |
| jsgotangco | it sucks to use a laptop with a monitor | 12:37 |
| jsgotangco | ;) | 12:37 |
| willvdl | highvoltage, woop | 12:37 |
| === jsgotangco hugs highvoltage | ||
| jsgotangco | how are you doing? | 12:42 |
| highvoltage | busy as always :) | 12:42 |
| highvoltage | it's going good | 12:42 |
| jsgotangco | i bet the bank account is piling up | 12:42 |
| highvoltage | I saw a cool video linked from iosn and wondered whether you were involved with that | 12:43 |
| highvoltage | I think it was someting that was aired on bbc | 12:44 |
| jsgotangco | well i used to be a software consultant for iosn | 12:44 |
| jsgotangco | there's an iosn sponsored event in 2 weeks called asiasouce in jakarta i might be there | 12:44 |
| highvoltage | link? | 12:44 |
| jsgotangco | http://www.apdip.net/news/asiasource2007 | 12:45 |
| jsgotangco | quake still affected the lines over here jeezzz some sites are crawling on my dsl | 12:46 |
| jsgotangco | SanDisk has introduced a 32-gigabyte (GB), 1.8-inch solid-state drive (SSD) as a drop-in replacement for the standard mechanical hard disk drive. | 12:46 |
| jsgotangco | oh boy | 12:46 |
| willvdl | cbx33, feedback from CJA. about to send to you | 12:50 |
| jsgotangco | CJA? | 12:50 |
| jsgotangco | http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478 | 12:51 |
| jsgotangco | de future! | 12:51 |
| willvdl | jsgotangco, Christina Armstrong: Canonical MArketing MAnager | 12:52 |
| willvdl | jsgotangco, price? | 12:52 |
| highvoltage | jsgotangco: I saw that, it's quite cool. will make laptop batteries last much longer. an they'll work nice as disk space in moving stuff like cars and bikes | 12:53 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 12:54 |
| jsgotangco | willvdl: well there's no price yet but its already released to OEMs | 12:54 |
| jsgotangco | it'll most likely come out on ultraportables | 12:54 |
| jsgotangco | willvdl: ahhh ive heard of her, just didnt know that she's CJA | 12:55 |
| cbx33 | thanks willvdl | 12:55 |
| willvdl | emailed to you. do you have time to make graphics changes? I can do text (and layout to match) | 12:56 |
| jsgotangco | highvoltage: yeah nand flash will definitely change the way we use storage on PCs | 12:57 |
| willvdl | highvoltage, jsgotangco do you know why we have our wiki landing at EdubuntuWiki and at Edubuntu? | 01:00 |
| cbx33 | gimme 2 secs | 01:00 |
| cbx33 | will I can try | 01:00 |
| willvdl | cbx33, I cannot do the logo moving thing... can do the rest | 01:01 |
| cbx33 | hehe | 01:01 |
| cbx33 | yes you can...I cheated ;) | 01:01 |
| cbx33 | but I'll sort that out for you | 01:01 |
| cbx33 | want me to do it before or after you do your changes? | 01:01 |
| highvoltage | willvdl: at some point, iirc, there were two pages that were more or less exactly the same, Edubuntu, and EdubuntuWiki. I think the one was pointed to the other to avoid duplication | 01:04 |
| willvdl | yeah got that. which one do people use as the "official" landing? | 01:05 |
| willvdl | cbx33, either. I'll merge my changes in nop | 01:05 |
| cbx33 | willvdl: I'll do it now with the one that you sent to me | 01:06 |
| cbx33 | ok? | 01:06 |
| willvdl | perfect. | 01:06 |
| highvoltage | willvdl: the website points to EdubuntuWiki, so I suppose that is the official wiki page | 01:07 |
| willvdl | ja. also appears to be the one msot linked from. cool | 01:08 |
| cbx33 | willvdl: done | 01:11 |
| willvdl | sweet | 01:12 |
| cbx33 | it should be with you | 01:12 |
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| willvdl | cbx33, sweet. I'll make the text changes | 01:21 |
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| mat79 | hello | 01:50 |
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| cbx33 | willvdl: howz it going? | 02:22 |
| willvdl | just adding some quotes | 02:22 |
| cbx33 | ok | 02:23 |
| ogra | highvoltage, around ? | 02:29 |
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| cbx33 | hey ogra | 02:34 |
| ogra | hey | 02:36 |
| highvoltage | ogra: yep | 02:39 |
| ogra | highvoltage, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/67390 do you have any documentation for this ? | 02:40 |
| highvoltage | ogra: no I haven't. I'd love to do some properly documented testing on that at some point | 02:41 |
| highvoltage | ogra: I can see by the bug mails that come in that you're in a bug closing mood. you can reject that for now if you want. | 02:42 |
| ogra | no, if its possible to achieve somehow (witout hacking up all the nfs code) i'd like to heave it ... | 02:43 |
| highvoltage | I think it would also be particularly useful in full diskless workstation environments | 02:43 |
| ogra | i thought you probably know a configuration option/workaround | 02:43 |
| ogra | so i'll keep it in whishlist status for now ... | 02:43 |
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| highvoltage | unfortunately not. I meant to ask on my local lug list but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll have to find a solution at some point in the near future, either way. | 02:44 |
| ogra | how why does shooltool not install ... hmm and lilo and ntp ... | 02:45 |
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| willvdl | cb33, new version emailed... | 03:01 |
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| wizzy | ogra: highvoltage: Surely the filesystem code should make this Just Work ? | 03:05 |
| ogra | wizzy, the common code is usually more conservative, what we want is a more specific setup thats targeted at heavy access load | 03:06 |
| ogra | i was hoping its possible through a config option or kernel parameter ... but that seems not to be the case | 03:07 |
| wizzy | tftp broadcast seems like a lot of work, but would be best .. | 03:07 |
| wizzy | or is it filesystem stuff ? | 03:07 |
| ogra | we're talking about nfs here ... thats way later than tftp in the process | 03:08 |
| ogra | tftp should handle the load fine | 03:08 |
| ogra | since its onl providing two files | 03:08 |
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| wizzy | Maybe its not easily cacheable - the nfs root is about 150 Megs, and maybe pretty much all of it is read by every client | 03:09 |
| ogra | right | 03:09 |
| ogra | but we chould probably optimize access with readahead | 03:09 |
| wizzy | Maybe put the nfs root on ramdisk .. eek | 03:10 |
| ogra | the probem here is that readahead needs some extra memory on the client to cache the files there | 03:10 |
| wizzy | But it is only really needed at boot time | 03:11 |
| ogra | else i'd already have done it ... but it raises the ram requirements | 03:11 |
| ogra | right | 03:11 |
| ogra | but after boot time you usually dont access the nfs root anymore | 03:11 |
| wizzy | Maybe if it swaps | 03:11 |
| ogra | as soon as you logged in nfs isnt used anymore apart from basic OS tasks on the client | 03:11 |
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| ogra | so the only bottleneck we have is the boot | 03:12 |
| ogra | if you start swapping over the network you have lost already ... netwrk swap is a nice add on so your client doesnt hardlock if you run out of mem, but thats about it ... its to slow to be really used for working | 03:13 |
| ogra | its only a seafety net ... | 03:13 |
| ogra | *safety | 03:13 |
| willvdl | cbx33 -> inbox | 03:14 |
| wizzy | Yes. But I have found even 64Meg clients run out of ram if you have lots of browser windows open. It must be X saveunder or something | 03:14 |
| ogra | that cant happen anymore since edgy (at least in edubuntu) we default to nbd swapping | 03:15 |
| willvdl | bbl | 03:15 |
| ogra | in ubuntu ou need to switch it on manually | 03:15 |
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| wizzy | Perhaps you could try to arrange that /opt/ltsp is kept within a few cylinders on the server disk - tiny seeks | 03:16 |
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| wizzy | All disk performance woes are seek-related, no ? | 03:17 |
| ogra | or cache related ... | 03:17 |
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| wizzy | separate partition for /opt/ltsp ? | 03:17 |
| ogra | wont help if its on the same disk | 03:17 |
| wizzy | .. as regular server stuff ? | 03:18 |
| wizzy | Easy to test though | 03:18 |
| ogra | you just make the head move more then | 03:18 |
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| wizzy | Does caching work per-partition ? per disk ? | 03:20 |
| ogra | good question | 03:21 |
| ogra | i think both, depending on the level you look at ... | 03:21 |
| ogra | on a HW level you will have it per disk | 03:21 |
| ogra | on filesystem level its very likele you also have it per partition | 03:21 |
| wizzy | bbl | 03:22 |
| pipedream | what about client-side caching | 03:23 |
| pipedream | http://lwn.net/Articles/105153/ | 03:24 |
| pipedream | http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-cachefs | 03:26 |
| pipedream | err, archives | 03:26 |
| ogra | hmm | 03:26 |
| ogra | is cachefs in the main kernel tree ? | 03:27 |
| pipedream | uhm | 03:28 |
| pipedream | dunno | 03:28 |
| pipedream | think so | 03:28 |
| pipedream | mebbe not | 03:28 |
| pipedream | gtg, sorry | 03:28 |
| ogra | hmm, it needs a local disk on the client | 03:28 |
| pipedream | ja | 03:28 |
| ogra | so that doesnt seem to be for ltsp | 03:28 |
| pipedream | err, our setup has that | 03:28 |
| pipedream | fat diskless | 03:28 |
| pipedream | but the disks are still in there | 03:28 |
| ogra | right | 03:28 |
| pipedream | ja, so not for thin | 03:28 |
| ogra | but thats not the default purpose of ltsp ;) | 03:29 |
| pipedream | ja | 03:29 |
| ogra | right | 03:29 |
| pipedream | not sure about highvoltage's specific aims atm though | 03:29 |
| ogra | i also doubt cachefs has made it into the main tree | 03:29 |
| ogra | so that would be a non trivial change to the kernel | 03:29 |
| ogra | well, generally speeding up NFS is a fine idea ... that what highvoltage aims are i think :) | 03:30 |
| ogra | apart from that you can indeed solve it with expensive HW ;) | 03:30 |
| pipedream | ja | 03:31 |
| pipedream | we're switching from thick to fat diskless | 03:31 |
| pipedream | so we have the disks in there for playing with cachefs or ataoe or local swap or scratch space | 03:31 |
| ogra | nice | 03:31 |
| === pipedream is in the same local lug as highvoltage | ||
| pipedream | he just asked about the NFS there | 03:34 |
| pipedream | anyhow, gtg, bye | 03:34 |
| ogra | :) | 03:34 |
| ogra | bye | 03:34 |
| highvoltage | oh, hi wizzy and pipedream :) | 03:36 |
| ogra | highvoltage, hmm, what about bind or move mounting the chroot to a ramdisk and serve nfs from there ? | 03:54 |
| ogra | that will indeed require a tad more ram in the server ... | 03:54 |
| highvoltage | ogra: yes. that's the same how I thought about it too. Ramdisks are nice.. but just expensive on memory. | 03:57 |
| highvoltage | ogra: and diskless fat workstations will need massive ramdisks if you'd want to do it that way :/ | 03:58 |
| highvoltage | ogra: from my lug I've got some useful links though | 03:58 |
| highvoltage | are you familiar with disk i/o elevators? | 03:58 |
| ogra | not really ... but there is documentation ;) | 03:59 |
| highvoltage | yes, i read about it here: http://people.redhat.com/alikins/system_tuning.html | 03:59 |
| highvoltage | you basically trade latency for disk throughput. it sounds useful for any LTSP server, as far as I can gather. | 03:59 |
| highvoltage | what we're really looking for to increase disk caching, seems to be to increase the pagecache (as described in http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/vm/) | 04:00 |
| ogra | the NFS part is rather common info in there ... | 04:00 |
| highvoltage | ah, so you're thinking about cacheing the chroot specifically? | 04:01 |
| ogra | ah, elevators are a kernel 2.4 thing, thats why i dont know about them | 04:01 |
| highvoltage | aren't they in 2.6 too? | 04:01 |
| highvoltage | that documentation is a bit dated (nov 2004), so I assumed they meant it was new in 2.4 | 04:01 |
| ogra | lets see | 04:02 |
| highvoltage | brb | 04:02 |
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| highvoltage | ogra: for a pure thin client server, I also think the caching should be aggressive system wide, not only for the chroot | 04:04 |
| highvoltage | because once the clients are booted, you don't need to have the whole ltsp chroot in ram anymore | 04:05 |
| highvoltage | and loading multiple copies of openoffice on 20 clients, for example, chows disk bandwidth quite hard | 04:05 |
| ogra | hmm, the elevators only work for the whole disk ... | 04:06 |
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| highvoltage | ogra: I still don't know why doing it disk-wide would be a bad thing? | 04:10 |
| xnp | hi everybody, i am looking for software to learn the french language | 04:10 |
| xnp | wich runs under linux | 04:10 |
| ogra | highvoltage, because on a single disk setup you will slow down either reading or witing ... elevators seem to only be able to trade one for the other | 04:11 |
| highvoltage | ah, ok. | 04:11 |
| highvoltage | xnp: klettres can teach you the french alphabet, at least | 04:12 |
| xnp | the french alphabet, i already know the french alphabet | 04:12 |
| xnp | my god is that it are there no program's for learning new words or grammer under linux | 04:13 |
| highvoltage | perhaps people who use linux already have good grammer and know lots of words :) | 04:13 |
| highvoltage | ogra: at least increasing the pagecache doesn't have any bad effects on writing. | 04:14 |
| highvoltage | ogra: actually, it should even encrease write performance, since the disk has more 'time' available to do writing | 04:14 |
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| cbx33 | hey willvdl | 04:33 |
| cbx33 | looks great | 04:33 |
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| willvdl | cool. didn't have any quotes handy but hopefully those will work | 04:33 |
| willvdl | I found that template tricky to work with. presumably scribus is easier? | 04:33 |
| cbx33 | yes i think so | 04:34 |
| cbx33 | i found that too | 04:34 |
| cbx33 | the clicking was very furstrating | 04:34 |
| cbx33 | kept selecting the background | 04:34 |
| willvdl | yeah :) keeps focussing on background | 04:34 |
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| willvdl | https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Archive | 04:49 |
| willvdl | works with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Cleanup | 04:49 |
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| bddebian | Heya | 05:18 |
| willvdl | heya | 05:25 |
| willvdl | Friday Afternoon => Beer ==> so long | 05:25 |
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| Peaceful | I'm new to (ed)ubuntu -- I just installed 6.10 on an old PIII server I have, but after a successful installation it boots up to "This video resolution is not supported by this monitor". | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | Peaceful: do you know what resolution your video card/monitor can do? | 07:46 |
| Peaceful | I'm using a Dell lcd panel that supports up to 1280x1024. I tried booting up in safe mode and removing all the resolutions from /etc/X11/xorg.conf higher than 1024x768, but that didn't seem to make any difference. | 07:46 |
| LaserJock | hmm, that's odd | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | I would think a Dell lcd would be pretty well supported | 07:47 |
| Peaceful | Ya, no kidding. I was evaluating the previous version of edubuntu (6.06?) before, and it didn't have this problem. | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | I only have one and it works no problem | 07:47 |
| LaserJock | ah, that's indeed interesting | 07:48 |
| Peaceful | Ya, definitely a regression. | 07:48 |
| Peaceful | Or new bug, as the case may be. | 07:48 |
| LaserJock | we shipped a newer version of Xorg for 6.10 | 07:49 |
| Peaceful | I suspect it has something to do with the refresh rate it's trying to use, but there doesn't seem to be a manually set refresh rate in the xorg.conf for me to tweak. | 07:49 |
| LaserJock | what model of lcd? | 07:49 |
| Peaceful | let me go check... | 07:49 |
| Peaceful | E173FPf | 07:51 |
| LaserJock | Peaceful: well, you can specify the horizontal and vertical refresh ranges | 07:55 |
| LaserJock | Peaceful: it's a 17" ultrasharp? | 07:57 |
| Peaceful | ok | 07:59 |
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| LaserJock | Peaceful: do you happen to have the manual handy? | 08:01 |
| Peaceful | there's a manual? | 08:11 |
| Peaceful | heh, ok, I'll go try specifying the ranges. First I'll have to find the ranges, but I bet google can help there. | 08:12 |
| LaserJock | Peaceful: I got on Dell's site | 08:16 |
| LaserJock | and when I searched for your model I came up with something | 08:16 |
| LaserJock | Max Sync Rate (V x H): 76 Hz x 81 kHz | 08:17 |
| Peaceful | ok, so 76 for vertical, 81 for horizontal? | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | those are the max | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | I couldn't find the low end | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | but that's not as important really | 08:18 |
| Peaceful | So... maybe 60 and 70? | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | as it's going to try the max it can | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | try 40 and 50 for the bottom end | 08:19 |
| Peaceful | ok | 08:19 |
| LaserJock | 60 is a realistic number so better to go a little below that | 08:19 |
| LaserJock | Peaceful: do you know how to put those in Xorg.conf? | 08:19 |
| ogra | did you install from a live CD or have an ubuntu liveCD handy ? | 08:19 |
| ogra | i'd just try to run from a live CD and copy over a working xorg.conf ;) | 08:20 |
| LaserJock | well, that would work too ;-) | 08:20 |
| LaserJock | ogra: good afternoon/evening | 08:21 |
| ogra | (late evening) | 08:21 |
| LaserJock | you're UTC+2? | 08:22 |
| ogra | yep ... well, its not "late" but given that i work since more than 12h today it feels a bit late :) | 08:23 |
| LaserJock | yeah, no kidding | 08:23 |
| LaserJock | I just wish I had more time to help you :/ | 08:23 |
| Peaceful | LaserJock: Ya, I know how. Aaand, it worked! | 08:24 |
| Peaceful | yay! | 08:24 |
| Peaceful | thanks for the help | 08:24 |
| ogra | yippie ... | 08:25 |
| === ogra loves happy users :-D | ||
| LaserJock | Peaceful: ok great, that was the only thing I could think of | 08:26 |
| LaserJock | sorry about that, I'm not sure why there would be a regression there | 08:26 |
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| Petaris | Hello all | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | hi Peaceful | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | or rather Petaris | 08:30 |
| bddebian | heh | 08:30 |
| Petaris | anyone know of a way to have LTSP (specifically AD authed users) home dirs unmounted and there local (on the ltsp server) home dirs deleted when they log off? | 08:30 |
| Petaris | Hi LaserJock | 08:30 |
| ogra | Petaris, there was a spec about it with a patch attached | 08:31 |
| Petaris | Hi ogra | 08:32 |
| ogra | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-persistent-home | 08:32 |
| ogra | look at the wiki for this | 08:32 |
| === Petaris looks | ||
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| ogra | sbalneav demoed it to me at google ... worked very nice | 08:36 |
| Petaris | ogra: do you know the status of the network auth bits? | 08:39 |
| Petaris | how are they coming? | 08:39 |
| ogra | edsadmin is sitting in NEW ... the other bits are not done yet | 08:40 |
| ogra | should be ready with herd3 or 4 | 08:40 |
| Petaris | hrm | 08:41 |
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| Petaris | I know this is a scarry question to ask on a Friday afternoon (for me) but is there anyone here with knowladge about pam_mount? | 10:01 |
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