[02:04] <willvdl> well if edubuntugirl quits then I might as well go sleep
[03:11] <bddebian> Heya
[04:18] <Joey_> ?
[04:19] <Joey_> hello
[04:19] <Joey_> ?
[04:19] <Joey_> NickServ
[04:19] <LaserJock> hi
[08:20] <Amaranth> sorry, setting something up
[12:02] <willvdl> cbx33: lovely work on the leaflet
[12:05] <cbx33> willvdl: been waiting for u
[12:05] <cbx33> you like it?
[12:05] <willvdl> I do. waiting for feedback from CJA
[12:06] <cbx33> ok excellent
[12:06] <willvdl> it's not easy choosing info for a 2 pg but you got it right I reckon
[12:08] <cbx33> you sure?
[12:08] <cbx33> I took bits from everywhere
[12:08] <cbx33> jono said he thought it looked ok too
[12:11] <willvdl> yip. My only worry was would the reader see where to get more information which is why I put the website in at the bottom
[12:11] <willvdl> even though you already have it int the banner at the bottom
[12:11] <cbx33> no that's a good idea
[12:15] <willvdl> !seen mhz
[12:15] <ubotu> I haven't seen mhz recently
[12:16] <willvdl> hey cbx33, I remember you coming up with the idea of an "archive" for old but interesting wiki pages
[12:17] <willvdl> any idea on how one could do it?
[12:17] <cbx33> hmm
[12:17] <cbx33> basically I suppose just make a page titles archive
[12:17] <cbx33> and link to them
[12:17] <cbx33> kinda like our cleanup page
[12:18] <cbx33> just put the link with a short description of why we are keeping it
[12:18] <willvdl> yeah, cause moving them to /Archive with redirects from the original would be pointless :)
[12:18] <willvdl> (my first idea)
[12:19] <cbx33> heh
[12:19] <cbx33> when will we hear from CJA?
[12:19] <willvdl> So you reckon like a wiki.e.o/EdubuntuArchive with a list of all of them. That way they have a parent, are easy to find and we don't need an extra Category
[12:19] <cbx33> oh and I managed to save money on my train ticket too ;)
[12:19] <willvdl> I'll ping her now
[12:19] <cbx33> willvdl: that sounds like an excellent idea
[12:19] <willvdl> :) hanging on the side?
[12:20] <cbx33> heh
[12:20] <willvdl> it's your idea
[12:20] <cbx33> kinda ;)
[12:20] <willvdl> ;)
[12:20] <cbx33> hope it's liked ;)
[12:23] <willvdl> okie, she is drafting a reply to me with some "minor text changes" - good news
[12:23] <cbx33> excellent
[12:29] <cbx33> hey jsgotangco
[12:29] <cbx33> long time no see
[12:29] <jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah happy new year dude
[12:29] <cbx33> hapy new year
[12:29] <jsgotangco> cbx33: i've been busy towards the end of the year but normalising
[12:30] <jsgotangco> cbx33: how are you doing?
[12:31] <willvdl> jsgotangco, hey
[12:32] <jsgotangco> willvdl: hi! how are you doing happy new year!
[12:34] <willvdl> very good. you? How's work looking?
[12:34] <jsgotangco> oh its alright, there are many things to do for this year so ive been busy, but somehow, im getting some time to experiment with linux again
[12:34] <jsgotangco> so probably before the month ends i'll be doing stuff again
[12:35] <cbx33> YAY
[12:36] <highvoltage> 1895 1749
[12:36] <highvoltage> oops, wrong keyboard :p
[12:36] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco willvdl and cbx33
[12:37] <jsgotangco> anyways i need a new laptop for sure
[12:37] <cbx33> hey highvoltage
[12:37] <jsgotangco> it sucks to use a laptop with a monitor
[12:37] <jsgotangco> ;)
[12:37] <willvdl> highvoltage, woop
[12:42] <jsgotangco> how are you doing?
[12:42] <highvoltage> busy as always :)
[12:42] <highvoltage> it's going good
[12:42] <jsgotangco> i bet the bank account is piling up
[12:43] <highvoltage> I saw a cool video linked from iosn and wondered whether you were involved with that
[12:44] <highvoltage> I think it was someting that was aired on bbc
[12:44] <jsgotangco> well i used to be a software consultant for iosn
[12:44] <jsgotangco> there's an iosn sponsored event in 2 weeks called asiasouce in jakarta i might be there
[12:44] <highvoltage> link?
[12:45] <jsgotangco> http://www.apdip.net/news/asiasource2007
[12:46] <jsgotangco> quake still affected the lines over here jeezzz some sites are crawling on my dsl
[12:46] <jsgotangco> SanDisk has introduced a 32-gigabyte (GB), 1.8-inch solid-state drive (SSD) as a drop-in replacement for the standard mechanical hard disk drive.
[12:46] <jsgotangco> oh boy
[12:50] <willvdl> cbx33, feedback from CJA. about to send to you
[12:50] <jsgotangco> CJA?
[12:51] <jsgotangco> http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478
[12:51] <jsgotangco> de future!
[12:52] <willvdl> jsgotangco, Christina Armstrong: Canonical MArketing MAnager
[12:52] <willvdl> jsgotangco, price?
[12:53] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: I saw that, it's quite cool. will make laptop batteries last much longer. an they'll work nice as disk space in moving stuff like cars and bikes
[12:54] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:54] <jsgotangco> willvdl: well there's no price yet but its already released to OEMs
[12:54] <jsgotangco> it'll most likely come out on ultraportables
[12:55] <jsgotangco> willvdl: ahhh ive heard of her, just didnt know that she's CJA
[12:55] <cbx33> thanks willvdl
[12:56] <willvdl> emailed to you. do you have time to make graphics changes? I can do text (and layout to match)
[12:57] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah nand flash will definitely change the way we use storage on PCs
[01:00] <willvdl> highvoltage, jsgotangco do you know why we have our wiki landing at EdubuntuWiki and at Edubuntu?
[01:00] <cbx33> gimme 2 secs
[01:00] <cbx33> will I can try
[01:01] <willvdl> cbx33, I cannot do the logo moving thing... can do the rest
[01:01] <cbx33> hehe
[01:01] <cbx33> yes you can...I cheated ;)
[01:01] <cbx33> but I'll sort that out for you
[01:01] <cbx33> want me to do it before or after you do your changes?
[01:04] <highvoltage> willvdl: at some point, iirc, there were two pages that were more or less exactly the same, Edubuntu, and EdubuntuWiki. I think the one was pointed to the other to avoid duplication
[01:05] <willvdl> yeah got that. which one do people use as the "official" landing?
[01:05] <willvdl> cbx33, either. I'll merge my changes in nop
[01:06] <cbx33> willvdl: I'll do it now with the one that you sent to me
[01:06] <cbx33> ok?
[01:06] <willvdl> perfect.
[01:07] <highvoltage> willvdl: the website points to EdubuntuWiki, so I suppose that is the official wiki page
[01:08] <willvdl> ja. also appears to be the one msot linked from. cool
[01:11] <cbx33> willvdl: done
[01:12] <willvdl> sweet
[01:12] <cbx33> it should be with you
[01:21] <willvdl> cbx33, sweet. I'll make the text changes
[01:50] <mat79> hello
[02:22] <cbx33> willvdl: howz it going?
[02:22] <willvdl> just adding some quotes
[02:23] <cbx33> ok
[02:29] <ogra> highvoltage, around ?
[02:34] <cbx33> hey ogra
[02:36] <ogra> hey
[02:39] <highvoltage> ogra: yep
[02:40] <ogra> highvoltage, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/67390 do you have any documentation for this ?
[02:41] <highvoltage> ogra: no I haven't. I'd love to do some properly documented testing on that at some point
[02:42] <highvoltage> ogra: I can see by the bug mails that come in that you're in a bug closing mood. you can reject that for now if you want.
[02:43] <ogra> no, if its possible to achieve somehow (witout hacking up all the nfs code) i'd like to heave it ...
[02:43] <highvoltage> I think it would also be particularly useful in full diskless workstation environments
[02:43] <ogra> i thought you probably know a configuration option/workaround
[02:43] <ogra> so i'll keep it in whishlist status for now ...
[02:44] <highvoltage> unfortunately not. I meant to ask on my local lug list but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll have to find a solution at some point in the near future, either way.
[02:45] <ogra> how why does shooltool not install ... hmm and lilo and ntp ...
[03:01] <willvdl> cb33, new version emailed...
[03:05] <wizzy> ogra: highvoltage: Surely the filesystem code should make this Just Work ?
[03:06] <ogra> wizzy, the common code is usually more conservative, what we want is a more specific setup thats targeted at heavy access load
[03:07] <ogra> i was hoping its possible through a config option or kernel parameter ... but that seems not to be the case
[03:07] <wizzy> tftp broadcast seems like a lot of work, but would be best ..
[03:07] <wizzy> or is it filesystem stuff ?
[03:08] <ogra> we're talking about nfs here ... thats way later than tftp in the process
[03:08] <ogra> tftp should handle the load fine
[03:08] <ogra> since its onl providing two files
[03:09] <wizzy> Maybe its not easily cacheable - the nfs root is about 150 Megs, and maybe pretty much all of it is read by every client
[03:09] <ogra> right
[03:09] <ogra> but we chould probably optimize access with readahead
[03:10] <wizzy> Maybe put the nfs root on ramdisk .. eek
[03:10] <ogra> the probem here is that readahead needs some extra memory on the client to cache the files there
[03:11] <wizzy> But it is only really needed at boot time
[03:11] <ogra> else i'd already have done it ... but it raises the ram requirements
[03:11] <ogra> right
[03:11] <ogra> but after boot time you usually dont access the nfs root anymore
[03:11] <wizzy> Maybe if it swaps
[03:11] <ogra> as soon as you logged in nfs isnt used anymore apart from basic OS tasks on the client
[03:12] <ogra> so the only bottleneck we have is the boot
[03:13] <ogra> if you start swapping over the network you have lost already ... netwrk swap is a nice add on so your client doesnt hardlock if you run out of mem, but thats about it ... its to slow to be really used for working
[03:13] <ogra> its only a seafety net ...
[03:13] <ogra> *safety
[03:14] <willvdl> cbx33 -> inbox
[03:14] <wizzy> Yes. But I have found even 64Meg clients run out of ram if you have lots of browser windows open. It must be X saveunder or something
[03:15] <ogra> that cant happen anymore since edgy (at least in edubuntu) we default to nbd swapping
[03:15] <willvdl> bbl
[03:15] <ogra> in ubuntu ou need to switch it on manually
[03:16] <wizzy> Perhaps you could try to arrange that /opt/ltsp is kept within a few cylinders on the server disk - tiny seeks
[03:17] <wizzy> All disk performance woes are seek-related, no ?
[03:17] <ogra> or cache related ...
[03:17] <wizzy> separate partition for /opt/ltsp ?
[03:17] <ogra> wont help if its on the same disk
[03:18] <wizzy> .. as regular server stuff ?
[03:18] <wizzy> Easy to test though
[03:18] <ogra> you just make the head move more then
[03:20] <wizzy> Does caching work per-partition ? per disk ?
[03:21] <ogra> good question
[03:21] <ogra> i think both, depending on the level you look at ...
[03:21] <ogra> on a HW level you will have it per disk
[03:21] <ogra> on filesystem level its very likele you also have it per partition
[03:22] <wizzy> bbl
[03:23] <pipedream> what about client-side caching
[03:24] <pipedream> http://lwn.net/Articles/105153/
[03:26] <pipedream> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-cachefs
[03:26] <pipedream> err, archives
[03:26] <ogra> hmm
[03:27] <ogra> is cachefs in the main kernel tree ?
[03:28] <pipedream> uhm
[03:28] <pipedream> dunno
[03:28] <pipedream> think so
[03:28] <pipedream> mebbe not
[03:28] <pipedream> gtg, sorry
[03:28] <ogra> hmm, it needs a local disk on the client
[03:28] <pipedream> ja
[03:28] <ogra> so that doesnt seem to be for ltsp
[03:28] <pipedream> err, our setup has that
[03:28] <pipedream> fat diskless
[03:28] <pipedream> but the disks are still in there
[03:28] <ogra> right
[03:28] <pipedream> ja, so not for thin
[03:29] <ogra> but thats not the default purpose of ltsp ;)
[03:29] <pipedream> ja
[03:29] <ogra> right
[03:29] <pipedream> not sure about highvoltage's specific aims atm though
[03:29] <ogra> i also doubt cachefs has made it into the main tree
[03:29] <ogra> so that would be a non trivial change to the kernel
[03:30] <ogra> well, generally speeding up NFS is a fine idea ... that what highvoltage aims are i think :)
[03:30] <ogra> apart from that you can indeed solve it with expensive HW ;)
[03:31] <pipedream> ja
[03:31] <pipedream> we're switching from thick to fat diskless
[03:31] <pipedream> so we have the disks in there for playing with cachefs or ataoe or local swap or scratch space
[03:31] <ogra> nice
[03:34] <pipedream> he just asked about the NFS there
[03:34] <pipedream> anyhow, gtg, bye
[03:34] <ogra> :)
[03:34] <ogra> bye
[03:36] <highvoltage> oh, hi wizzy and pipedream :)
[03:54] <ogra> highvoltage, hmm, what about bind or move mounting the chroot to a ramdisk and serve nfs from there ?
[03:54] <ogra> that will indeed require a tad more ram in the server ...
[03:57] <highvoltage> ogra: yes. that's the same how I thought about it too. Ramdisks are nice.. but just expensive on memory.
[03:58] <highvoltage> ogra: and diskless fat workstations will need massive ramdisks if you'd want to do it that way :/
[03:58] <highvoltage> ogra: from my lug I've got some useful links though
[03:58] <highvoltage> are you familiar with disk i/o elevators?
[03:59] <ogra> not really ... but there is documentation ;)
[03:59] <highvoltage> yes, i read about it here: http://people.redhat.com/alikins/system_tuning.html
[03:59] <highvoltage> you basically trade latency for disk throughput. it sounds useful for any LTSP server, as far as I can gather.
[04:00] <highvoltage> what we're really looking for to increase disk caching, seems to be to increase the pagecache (as described in http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/vm/)
[04:00] <ogra> the NFS part is rather common info in there ...
[04:01] <highvoltage> ah, so you're thinking about cacheing the chroot specifically?
[04:01] <ogra> ah, elevators are a kernel 2.4 thing, thats why i dont know about them
[04:01] <highvoltage> aren't they in 2.6 too?
[04:01] <highvoltage> that documentation is a bit dated (nov 2004), so I assumed they meant it was new in 2.4
[04:02] <ogra> lets see
[04:02] <highvoltage> brb
[04:04] <highvoltage> ogra: for a pure thin client server, I also think the caching should be aggressive system wide, not only for the chroot
[04:05] <highvoltage> because once the clients are booted, you don't need to have the whole ltsp chroot in ram anymore
[04:05] <highvoltage> and loading multiple copies of openoffice on 20 clients, for example, chows disk bandwidth quite hard
[04:06] <ogra> hmm, the elevators only work for the whole disk ...
[04:10] <highvoltage> ogra: I still don't know why doing it disk-wide would be a bad thing?
[04:10] <xnp> hi everybody, i am looking for software to learn the french language
[04:10] <xnp> wich  runs under linux
[04:11] <ogra> highvoltage, because on a single disk setup you will slow down either reading or witing ... elevators seem to only be able to trade one for the other
[04:11] <highvoltage> ah, ok.
[04:12] <highvoltage> xnp: klettres can teach you the french alphabet, at least
[04:12] <xnp> the french alphabet, i already know the french alphabet
[04:13] <xnp> my god is that it are there no program's for learning new words or grammer under linux
[04:13] <highvoltage> perhaps people who use linux already have good grammer and know lots of words :)
[04:14] <highvoltage> ogra: at least increasing the pagecache doesn't have any bad effects on writing.
[04:14] <highvoltage> ogra: actually, it should even encrease write performance, since the disk has more 'time' available to do writing
[04:33] <cbx33> hey willvdl
[04:33] <cbx33> looks great
[04:33] <willvdl> cool. didn't have any quotes handy but hopefully those will work
[04:33] <willvdl> I found that template tricky to work with. presumably scribus is easier?
[04:34] <cbx33> yes i think so
[04:34] <cbx33> i found that too
[04:34] <cbx33> the clicking was very furstrating
[04:34] <cbx33> kept selecting the background
[04:34] <willvdl> yeah :) keeps focussing on background
[04:49] <willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Archive
[04:49] <willvdl> works with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Cleanup
[05:18] <bddebian> Heya
[05:25] <willvdl> heya
[05:25] <willvdl> Friday Afternoon => Beer ==> so long
[07:45] <Peaceful> I'm new to (ed)ubuntu -- I just installed 6.10 on an old PIII server I have, but after a successful installation it boots up to "This video resolution is not supported by this monitor".
[07:46] <LaserJock> Peaceful: do you know what resolution your video card/monitor can do?
[07:46] <Peaceful> I'm using a Dell lcd panel that supports up to 1280x1024.  I tried booting up in safe mode and removing all the resolutions from /etc/X11/xorg.conf higher than 1024x768, but that didn't seem to make any difference.
[07:47] <LaserJock> hmm, that's odd
[07:47] <LaserJock> I would think a Dell lcd would be pretty well supported
[07:47] <Peaceful> Ya, no kidding.  I was evaluating the previous version of edubuntu (6.06?) before, and it didn't have this problem.
[07:47] <LaserJock> I only have one and it works no problem
[07:48] <LaserJock> ah, that's indeed interesting
[07:48] <Peaceful> Ya, definitely a regression.
[07:48] <Peaceful> Or new bug, as the case may be.
[07:49] <LaserJock> we shipped a newer version of Xorg for 6.10
[07:49] <Peaceful> I suspect it has something to do with the refresh rate it's trying to use, but there doesn't seem to be a manually set refresh rate in the xorg.conf for me to tweak.
[07:49] <LaserJock> what model of lcd?
[07:49] <Peaceful> let me go check...
[07:51] <Peaceful> E173FPf
[07:55] <LaserJock> Peaceful: well, you can specify the horizontal and vertical refresh ranges
[07:57] <LaserJock> Peaceful: it's a 17" ultrasharp?
[07:59] <Peaceful> ok
[08:01] <LaserJock> Peaceful: do you happen to have the manual handy?
[08:11] <Peaceful> there's a manual?
[08:12] <Peaceful> heh, ok, I'll go try specifying the ranges.  First I'll have to find the ranges, but I bet google can help there.
[08:16] <LaserJock> Peaceful: I got on Dell's site
[08:16] <LaserJock> and when I searched for your model I came up with something
[08:17] <LaserJock> Max Sync Rate (V x H): 76 Hz x 81 kHz
[08:18] <Peaceful> ok, so 76 for vertical, 81 for horizontal?
[08:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:18] <LaserJock> those are the max
[08:18] <LaserJock> I couldn't find the low end
[08:18] <LaserJock> but that's not as important really
[08:18] <Peaceful> So... maybe 60 and 70?
[08:18] <LaserJock> as it's going to try the max it can
[08:19] <LaserJock> try 40 and 50 for the bottom end
[08:19] <Peaceful> ok
[08:19] <LaserJock> 60 is a realistic number so better to go a little below that
[08:19] <LaserJock> Peaceful: do you know how to put those in Xorg.conf?
[08:19] <ogra> did you install from a live CD or have an ubuntu liveCD handy ?
[08:20] <ogra> i'd just try to run from a live CD and copy over a working xorg.conf ;)
[08:20] <LaserJock> well, that would work too ;-)
[08:21] <LaserJock> ogra: good afternoon/evening
[08:21] <ogra> (late evening)
[08:22] <LaserJock> you're UTC+2?
[08:23] <ogra> yep ... well, its not "late" but given that i work since more than 12h today it feels a bit late :)
[08:23] <LaserJock> yeah, no kidding
[08:23] <LaserJock> I just wish I had more time to help you :/
[08:24] <Peaceful> LaserJock: Ya, I know how.  Aaand, it worked!
[08:24] <Peaceful> yay!
[08:24] <Peaceful> thanks for the help
[08:25] <ogra> yippie ...
[08:26] <LaserJock> Peaceful: ok great, that was the only thing I could think of
[08:26] <LaserJock> sorry about that, I'm not sure why there would be a regression there
[08:29] <Petaris> Hello all
[08:30] <LaserJock> hi Peaceful
[08:30] <LaserJock> or rather Petaris
[08:30] <bddebian> heh
[08:30] <Petaris> anyone know of a way to have LTSP (specifically AD authed users) home dirs unmounted and there local (on the ltsp server) home dirs deleted when they log off?
[08:30] <Petaris> Hi LaserJock
[08:31] <ogra> Petaris, there was a spec about it with a patch attached
[08:32] <Petaris> Hi ogra
[08:32] <ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-persistent-home
[08:32] <ogra> look at the wiki for this
[08:36] <ogra> sbalneav demoed it to me at google ... worked very nice
[08:39] <Petaris> ogra: do you know the status of the network auth bits?
[08:39] <Petaris> how are they coming?
[08:40] <ogra> edsadmin is sitting in NEW ... the other bits are not done yet
[08:40] <ogra> should be ready with herd3 or 4
[08:41] <Petaris> hrm
[10:01] <Petaris> I know this is a scarry question to ask on a Friday afternoon (for me) but is there anyone here with knowladge about pam_mount?