[12:56] <shnee> hello Riddell
[01:29] <bddebian> Heya
[03:44] <mhb> I've made a wiki page about one of my points in the meeting agenda. It's not so short, so you might want to read it before the meeting. Here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/NewWidgetStyle . A link to it is on Kubuntu/Meetings btw.
[03:46] <mhb> Jucato: um ... Crystal Window Decorations? Icon theme?
[03:46] <Jucato> er Crystal windeco sorry
[03:48] <mhb> Jucato: that's fine, if you can express your opinion in a constructive way,
[03:49] <Jucato> heh :)
[03:49] <mhb> Jucato: Polyester is just my personal favourite, but as I stated on the page, that is to be discussed.
[03:49] <Jucato> ok. haven't read the whole page yet. just wanted to get that opinion of mine in :)
[03:50] <mhb> Jucato: do you think the rationale is wrong?
[03:50] <Jucato> hm.. I'll read it
[03:52] <Jucato> mhb, doesn't Kubuntu also use plastik by default?
[03:54] <mhb> Jucato: hmm ... I think last time I talked to Kenneth he said Lipstik's the one ... but if you know those two you know they are practically the same
[03:54] <Jucato> yeah
[03:57] <Jucato> mhb: /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde-profile/default/share/config/kdeglobals "widgetStyle=plastik"
[04:00] <mhb> Jucato: ah
[04:00] <mhb> Jucato: you are right
[04:01] <Jucato> although, I have a bit of a problem trusting everything in k-d-s... I observe that the .kcsrc file in k-d-s doesn't match the on being used actually in Edgy...
[04:02] <mhb> Jucato: what do you think about the rationale and the idea of changing the widget style to match the window decorations, kicker etc. ?
[04:03] <mhb> Jucato: not about my suggestion, but the idea in general
[04:03] <Jucato> imho it's pretty reasonable
[04:05] <Jucato> i'm looking into the issues right now
[04:06] <mhb> Jucato: one of them was already fixed
[04:07] <Jucato> which one?
[04:07] <Jucato> Hobbsee!!!
[04:07] <mhb> Hobbsee's the sign I should really go to sleep :o)
[04:08] <mhb> Jucato: the K menu one
[04:08] <Jucato> aw..
[04:08] <Jucato> ah how was it fixed?
[04:08] <nixternal> it looks good, and i think i used to use this in the apst
[04:08] <Jucato> nixternal: builds?
[04:08] <nixternal> a 1.0 edgy build so i can install it :)
[04:08] <Jucato> aaah
[04:08] <Hobbsee> Jucato!!!
[04:08] <Hobbsee> mhb: hahaha, nah
[04:08] <Hobbsee> what's the time there?
[04:08] <mhb> 04:08
[04:08] <Hobbsee> nixternal: what versoin is polyester now?
[04:08] <Hobbsee> !info kde-style-polyester feisty
[04:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: ouch
[04:09] <ubotu> kde-style-polyester: The Polyester widget style for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.99+1.0rc1-0ubuntu1 (feisty), package size 160 kB, installed size 552 kB
[04:09] <nixternal> 1.0
[04:09] <nixternal> .99
[04:09] <nixternal> ya
[04:09] <Hobbsee> that versoin?
[04:09] <nixternal> thats what it is now yes
[04:09] <nixternal> the latest is 1.0 on kde-look (for almost a month now)
[04:10] <nixternal> mhb: removing the gray rectangle on kmenu, is that an art thing?
[04:11] <mhb> nixternal: it's a code thing, but it can be done
[04:11] <nixternal> ahh
[04:11] <Jucato> removing the grey rectangle? there's an option to turn it off in polyester
[04:11] <mhb> nixternal: well then it's even easier :o)
[04:12] <Jucato> I think turning off the menu stripe by default would make it more consistent...
[04:12] <nixternal> i use a transparent kmenu, so it isn't all that noticeable
[04:14] <mhb> Jucato: You may be right.
[04:14] <mhb> Jucato: that can be easily done :o) the first part is to decide if we will change the widget style.
[04:14] <mhb> at all
[04:15] <Jucato> a change would be good... and Crystal windeco + Plastik doesn't really look good, imho
[04:15] <nixternal> what do i need to do in order to get the theme to apply to ff?
[04:15] <Jucato> nixternal: GTK+ Styles and Fonts
[04:15] <Hobbsee> nixternal: NEAT!!!
[04:15] <Jucato> System Settings -> Appearance
[04:15] <mhb> !info gtk-qt-engine
[04:15] <ubotu> Package gtk-qt-engine does not exist in any distro I know
[04:16] <mhb> !info gtk-qt-engine feisty
[04:16] <ubotu> gtk-qt-engine: theme engine using Qt for GTK+ 2.x. In component main, is optional. Version 0.70-4ubuntu2 (feisty), package size 87 kB, installed size 392 kB
[04:16] <Jucato> !gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[04:16] <ubotu> gtk2-engines-gtk-qt: theme engine using Qt for GTK+ 2.x. In component main, is optional. Version 0.70-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 80 kB, installed size 364 kB
[04:16] <Jucato> it was renamed?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:16] <Jucato> oh...
[04:17] <Jucato> hm... any plans on renaming adept again? :)
[04:17] <Jucato> hi manchicken!
[04:17] <manchicken> w00t!
[04:18] <manchicken> So I have 3 things on my agenda this evening.
[04:18] <Hobbsee> manchicken!!!
[04:18] <Hobbsee> what are they?
[04:18] <manchicken> 1) Beer, 2) Hacking a bit, 3) Putting some of this jigsaw puzzle together.
[04:18] <manchicken> I'm getting pissed off with this warm winter weather.
[04:18] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:19] <manchicken> The bugs are going to be insane.
[04:20] <nixternal> says i have it already installed yet the theme doesn't apply to the ff menus
[04:21] <mhb> nixternal: you mean the grey stripe?
[04:21] <Hobbsee> manchicken: which bugs?
[04:22] <nixternal> nah, the glass looking selectors
[04:22] <manchicken> Hobbsee: The ones that the cold winter was supposed to kill ^_^
[04:22] <Hobbsee> ah
[04:22] <Jucato> nixternal: in GTK+ Styles and Fonts, did you set it to use your KDE style?
[04:23] <nixternal> shh
[04:23] <nixternal> ;p
[04:23] <Jucato> :)
[04:23] <nixternal> it is already set
[04:24] <nixternal> argh
[04:24] <Jucato> hm.. restart firefox?
[04:24] <nixternal> yup
[04:25] <Jucato> hm.. strange...
[04:25] <nixternal> i just noticed that none fo the styles apply to ff
[04:26] <nixternal> keramik has some cool glassy/glossy menu highlights
[04:26] <Jucato> too glossy, imho
[04:26] <Jucato> and that's coming from someone who likes glossy :)
[04:26] <nixternal> the rest of theme is yes
[04:26] <nixternal> but the menu highlights take the cake
[04:27] <Jucato> well, there's one thing I don't like about keramik's widget style
[04:27] <Jucato> how it applies the color to window backgrounds
[04:27] <nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=13969
[04:27] <nixternal> thats kinda sharp looking
[04:28] <Hobbsee> someone tell me what time i'm working tonight, please...
[04:28] <Jucato> Keramik takes the Button's color for the Window background...
[04:28] <nixternal> except for those stupid vista buttons
[04:28] <nixternal> Hobbsee: i said you can have the day off :)
[04:28] <Hobbsee> nice....ish
[04:28] <mhb> nixternal: that's what we use now, isn't it? :o)
[04:28] <Hobbsee> nixternal: nah, the other lady there will not be pleased
[04:29] <Hobbsee> mhb: we set the defaults :P
[04:29] <nixternal> mhb: damn it is
[04:29] <nixternal> but that looks cooler :)
[04:30] <mhb> nixternal: really?
[04:30] <Jucato> which looks cooler? keramik?
[04:30] <mhb> nixternal: in what way?
[04:30] <Hobbsee> polyester beats them all :P
[04:30] <Hobbsee> mind you, the transparency/translucency looks kinda nice
[04:31] <nixternal> just that entire glass/see through looked neat. maybe it is just that guys setup though
[04:31] <Jucato> yes, polyester is a very nice alternative and looks well with Crystal windeco
[04:31] <mhb> nixternal: if you want transparency, either use Beryl or wait for kwin4 :o)
[04:31] <nixternal> qt-curve!
[04:31] <nixternal> haha
[04:31] <Jucato> that's another good alternative nixternal :)
[04:31] <nixternal> mhb: i would rather jump off the golden gate bridge into a boat of razor blades than use beryl
[04:31] <Hobbsee> nixternal: did you see the meeting time?
[04:32] <Jucato> I was actually suggesting that too
[04:32] <nixternal> Hobbsee: i believe i did, i think i posted the new date and time to the fridge as well
[04:32] <Jucato> so that's the final date/time?
[04:32] <Hobbsee> nixternal: cool
[04:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: havent read my logs of last night yet, but i'm hoping so
[04:33] <mhb> Hobbsee: the "polyester beats them all" was irony or not?
[04:33] <Hobbsee> dunno.  i like polyester :)
[04:33] <mhb> Hobbsee: you read the wiki page I made?
[04:34] <Hobbsee> mhb: probably not.  do i have the address?
[04:34] <Jucato> two advantages of qtcurve, for me, are: extremely customizable (we can ship/make our own "theme" for it, just like we do in Crystal) and there's a QtCurve for GTK+
[04:34] <Hobbsee> someone should merge keep, btw
[04:35] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes, either in the logs or on Kubuntu/Meetings page .... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/NewWidgetStyle
[04:36] <Hobbsee> someone check that kwwii will be around for the meeting, if i dont, please
[04:36] <mhb> good night all
[04:36] <Jucato> I'll ask him when I see him :)
[04:36] <Jucato> night mhb!
[04:36] <mhb> Hobbsee: I can ask him too, after all he's in the same timezone.
[04:37] <Hobbsee> mhb: cool :)
[04:39] <Hobbsee> hey jack_wyt_
[04:40] <Jucato> Hobbsee: 1.0?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> Jucato: of polyester
[04:40] <Jucato> yeah?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> yep
[04:40] <Jucato> ooh
[04:41] <Hobbsee> :
[04:41] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:41] <Hobbsee> (to feisty)
[04:41] <Hobbsee> i think it's on REVU
[04:41] <Jucato> really?
[04:42] <Jucato> I find it to be the most KDE-like (i.e., so very customizable) style...
[04:42] <Jucato> and it also has the added advantage of having a GTK+ version, which makes it consistent across apps...
[04:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: true
[04:42] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i seem to recall that the argument was "we dont want to look like gnome"
[04:43] <Jucato> ah because it's somewhat like bluecurve?
[04:43] <manchicken> Eh, I don't care about looking like gnome.  I wish that apps were more cross DE friendly..
[04:43] <Jucato> er modified Shiny Glass... doesn't look like GNOME at all
[04:43] <mhb> Jucato: well if it's similar to a GNOME-like theme it will not make it as default
[04:44] <Jucato> mhb: the thing is, QtCurve comes with so many schemes
[04:44] <mhb> I still believe in the "no revolution" concept I stated on that wiki page
[04:44] <Jucato> well, yeah, if you put it that way...
[04:45] <Jucato> "no revolution" would mean it's more likely to get accepted...
[04:45] <mhb> Jucato: do me a screenshot and we can discuss it
[04:46] <mhb> s/do/make
[04:46] <Jucato> no, you should sleep first mhb :)
[04:46] <mhb> right
[04:46] <Jucato> let's discuss when you awaken :)
[04:47] <nixternal> hmm. i restarted x and that took care of all of the menus, except for ff
[04:47] <nixternal> Jucato: i just got done going through all of the qtcurve themes
[04:47] <nixternal> there are 3 good themes
[04:47] <Jucato> strange... you shouldn't have to restart X...
[04:47] <n8k99> /sees Hobbsee carrying her stick and hides
[04:47] <nixternal> clear, inverted, and dull glass all stand out nicely
[04:47] <Jucato> shiny glass, with a couple of modifications, can look like a shinier polyester
[04:47] <Hobbsee> n8k99: heh
[04:48] <Hobbsee> uh oh, ajmitch's server is gone again...that *always* dies when he's away
[04:48] <Jucato> http://jucato.org/stuff/qtcurve-shinymod.png
[04:48] <Hobbsee> nice
[04:49] <Hobbsee> Accepted:
[04:49] <Hobbsee>  OK: polyester_1.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
[04:49] <Hobbsee>      -> Component: universe Section: kde
[04:49] <Hobbsee>  OK: polyester_1.0.orig.tar.gz
[04:49] <Hobbsee>  OK: polyester_1.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[04:49] <Jucato> with qtcurve-gtk2 installed, firefox uses the same scheme if GTK+ Styles and Fonts is set to "Use my KDE Style..."
[04:51] <Jucato> http://jucato.org/stuff/firefox-qtcurve.png
[04:52] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/screeny.png
[04:52] <nixternal> ^^ inverted qtcurve theme
[04:52] <Jucato> heh yeah the inverted glass also looks nice
[04:52] <Jucato> but it doesn't look consistent with Crystal windeco, imho...
[04:53] <nixternal> no it doesn't, but looks good with the default kde theme whatever that is
[04:53] <nixternal> plastik
[04:53] <Jucato> default KDE windeco?
[04:53] <Jucato> yeah, KDE default uses Plastik style and windeco
[04:53] <Jucato> ooh irssi...
[04:54] <nixternal> what about irssi?
[04:54] <Jucato> pretty pretty
[04:54] <nixternal> oh, the setup i use?
[04:54] <Jucato> how did you get a nick list column?!?! :O
[04:55] <nixternal> nicklist.pl and screen within a screen
[04:55] <Jucato> oh
[04:55] <Jucato> I thought it was built in
[04:55] <nixternal> nah, it is actually 2 screens running in 1 screen session
[04:55] <Jucato> :)
[04:56] <nixternal> plastik actually looks pretty nice
[04:56] <Jucato> it's plain, simple, and beatiful in simplicity...
[04:57] <Jucato> it's also old and plain :P
[04:57] <nixternal> ya, i enjoy simplicity
[04:57] <Jucato> and doesn't look well w/ crystal :)
[04:57] <nixternal> i did a simpli theme for kde in the mid 90's that was sharp
[04:57] <nixternal> that was simplistic
[04:57] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, i was going to install the new polyester...
[04:57] <Jucato> from simplicity to complexity: plastik > lipstik > polyester > qtcurve
[04:58] <nixternal> rsi breaktime!
[04:59] <Jucato> lunch time! (I hope)
[06:17] <nixternal> jdub is gonna kill me
[06:18] <nixternal> http://blog.nixternal.com/
[06:36] <manchicken> Awww, no you didn't.
[06:36] <manchicken> You put zeros and ones on your header.
[06:36] <manchicken> Weak.
[06:36] <manchicken> I'm so hesitant to get back into adept.
[06:37] <manchicken> It's been so long since I've touched it.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:37] <Hobbsee> go on
[06:37] <manchicken> Like, almost 3 weeks.
[06:37] <manchicken> I don't think I've had nearly enough to drink yet.
[06:43] <manchicken> Ack, I can't keep working on it until I get some feedback from Tonio
[06:52] <manchicken> That's okay, I need to set up backups...
[06:52] <manchicken> I can't believe I've neglected backups so long.
[06:53] <manchicken> I'm considering playing some games.
[06:56] <nixternal> manchicken: Open Source Chicago Style: letting proprietary solutions sleep with the fishes
[06:56] <nixternal> is that better? :)
[06:56] <manchicken> heh
[06:56] <nixternal> that binary version must have been done by a silly plugin
[06:57] <manchicken> That should be more like: Free Software Chicago Style: Popping some caps up in some fascist proprietary software ass.
[06:57] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:57] <nixternal> going gangstah on proprietary
[06:58] <manchicken> Anything worth shooting once, is worth shooting twice.
[06:58] <nixternal> lol
[06:59] <manchicken> Wow, keep really means "backup now" when you click "backup now".
[06:59] <manchicken> Not even a thread with progress window.
[07:00] <nixternal> heh
[07:07] <manchicken> Anybody seen Tonio lately?
[09:37] <Lure> Riddell: is the change for language installation already in festy - as mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd2/Kubuntu
[09:37] <Lure> Riddell: I do not see these new buttons on my system
[11:49] <mhb> good morning
[11:50] <Jucato> morning mhb!
[11:51] <Jucato> mhb: posted my screenshots
[11:52] <mhb> Jucato: where?
[11:53] <Jucato> http://jucato.org/stuff/qtcurve-shinymod.png and  http://jucato.org/stuff/firefox-qtcurve.png
[11:56] <Lure> Jucato: nice, just toolbar is a bit strange in Sys Settings (near search)
[11:56] <Jucato> heh I modified Konqueror a lot :)
[11:57] <Jucato> er.. sorry
[11:57] <Lure> Jucato: is this special theme for firefox or just qt-gtk
[11:57] <Jucato> Lure: I'm using qtcurve-kde3 and qtcurve-gtk2
[11:58] <Jucato> This is related to mhb's proposal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/NewWidgetStyle
[11:58] <Jucato> btw, I'm not sure why, but it seems that only System Settings is exhibiting that toolbar behavior...
[11:58] <Lure> Jucato: yes, have seen that - hope that kwwii and pinhero will be on the meeting
[11:59] <Jucato> yeah I hope so too
[12:03] <mhb> Jucato: if you want you can add those pictures on a wiki page and add some explanations to your choice so that it can be also discussed at the meeting
[12:04] <Jucato> ok. maybe later... konqueror bug weekend :)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> hey all
[12:52] <mhb> hi Hobbsee
[12:54] <Hobbsee> hey mhb!!
[12:58] <mhb> Hobbsee: informed Kenneth about the meeting date change
[12:59] <Hobbsee> mhb: yay, thankyou :)
[02:06] <Lure> any developer around to upload eqonimize - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=3979
[02:06] <Lure> it is just new tar from upstream - the rest is the same
[02:10] <Hobbsee|NotHere> hey Lure
[02:11] <Lure> hi Hobbsee - can you upload it for me?
[02:11] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'm on windows at the moment
[02:11] <Hobbsee> no, no :)
[02:12] <Riddell> Lure: certainly should be
[02:12] <Hobbsee> hey Riddell
[02:13] <Hobbsee> "which two out of these 5 are different?"  "blown if i know.  hwo is this relevant?"
[02:13] <Lure> Riddell: not here... :-(
[02:13] <Hobbsee> what is your criteria for defining difference?  argh!
[02:34] <mhb> I wonder how the new adept dist-upgrade tool will be distributed
[02:35] <mhb> would it be possible to make Edgy packages?
[02:35] <Lure> mhb: like sru?
[02:36] <Hobbsee> bug 78184 - huh?
[02:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78184 in kdebase "??" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78184
[02:43] <Lure> Riddell (or other core-dev): can you review and upload kdebase for me - http://lure.lu.funpic.de/kubuntu/feisty/kdebase16.debdiff
[02:43] <mhb> Lure: about the sru ... I don't know - that's why I ask
[02:44] <Lure> mhb: I am not sure - spec does not say what is the plan in this regard - you will need to ask Riddell
[02:44] <mhb> Lure: I know - read it myself
[02:45] <Lure> mhb: btw, I like your proposal to change widget theme for feisty
[02:45] <Lure> mhb: it does not matter if polyester or qtcurve is the answer it is just that plastik is old ;-)
[02:47] <mhb> Lure: thanks ... yes, I think that too
[02:47] <Hobbsee> yay Lure :)
[02:48] <Hobbsee> argh...i cant stand windows :(
[02:49] <mhb> Riddell: Would the Kubuntu dist-upgrade tool be distributed to Edgy? And how? If so, one of the important factors (for me) is the availability of translations.
[02:51] <mhb> Hobbsee|NotHere: goodnight
[02:53] <Riddell> mhb: yes, but I need to think about that
[02:53] <Riddell> mhb: we'll need a patched version of adept which downloads the tool
[02:56] <mhb> Riddell: okay. I believe you'll think of something :o) Please don't forget to distribute translations somehow. I know that can be difficult but it will make life easier for a lot of non-English Kubuntu users.
[03:04] <Lure> mhb: I thought that translations are updated for released versions from time to time...
[03:05] <mhb> Lure: yes, they are
[03:05] <Lure> mhb: so we could use this
[03:05] <mhb> Lure: but the strings we need to translate are not in the .pot templates
[03:05] <mhb> (for Edgy)
[03:05] <mhb> and I believe the templates are closed
[03:06] <Lure> mhb: right :-(
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya
[04:03] <Lure> sebas: will check in #kde-devel re bug 65791
[04:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 65791 in guidance "DPMS timeout restored incorrectly on login" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/65791
[04:04] <Lure> sebas: I also want to include the patch for currency change - I am just not sure if we are not too late
[04:04] <sebas> Tagging is 15th jan, so no, not too late.
[04:05] <Lure> sebas: so you suggest that I send proposed patches to kde-devel ML or commit to branch and do CCMAIL: kde-devel?
[04:05] <sebas> It seems unmaintained, if there's a bug in bko, submitting should be fine.
[04:06] <sebas> But CCMAIL kde-devel in any case
[04:06] <sebas> Not sure how safe they are, but doing it 2 minutes before tagging is not a good idea :-)
[04:06] <Lure> sebas: ok, will first update bug in bko
[04:09] <nixternal> mhb: how do you deal with bug 78174 w/o loosing your mind? :)
[04:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78174 in irm "UCF: Missing dependency for Post-inst script" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78174
[04:11] <mhb> nixternal: why do you ask me? :o)
[04:12] <nixternal> hrmm
[04:12] <nixternal> i posted the wrong bug number
[04:12] <nixternal> i was talking about the bug ?? with no info whatsoever
[04:15] <mhb> Hobbsee: aren't you supposed to sleep?
[04:15] <Hobbsee> mhb: tried that.  got boring.
[04:15] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee, hi nixternal
[04:15] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato
[04:15] <Lure> sebas: I think we have another issue in powermanager: actions if multiple users are logged in
[04:16] <Hobbsee> now Jucato *definetly* should be asleep
[04:16] <mhb> nixternal: :o) that one. Don't tell me the author added just the translation of the two words :o)
[04:16] <Jucato> Hobbsee: nah.. 11:15 PM
[04:16] <nixternal> haha ya
[04:16] <Lure> sebas: gnome uses /bin/check-foreground-console to detect who should be in charge
[04:16] <Jucato> just got back from a 3-4 hour meeting...
[04:17] <Lure> sebas: I think I have experienced it today - I had another user on other console (for testing) and it hibernated by machine (accordning to idle setting)
[04:17] <nixternal> mhb: point him to bug writing 101
[04:17] <Lure> sebas: will test further to confirm that this is the case
[04:17] <Hobbsee> Jucato: oh yeah, wrong way...
[04:21] <mhb> nixternal: which one?
[04:21] <mhb> nixternal: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html ? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs ?
[04:25] <mhb> nixternal: that should do it :o)
[05:32] <Lure> Riddell: Slo currency change also committed to 3.5 branch in kde svn: http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdebase/l10n/si/entry.desktop?rev=620562&view=auto
[05:32] <Riddell> Lure: groovy, that means we'll pick it up with 3.5.6
[05:33] <Riddell> Lure: if you want to do a SRU.. good luck
[05:33] <Lure> Riddell: will not ask for sru unless I get some bug for it (I am all feisty now ;-))
[05:34] <Lure> Riddell: and it will be in 3.5.6 release you will add to kubuntu.org anyhow
[05:35] <mhb> my fonts have messed up terribly with the latest Feisty upgrade
[05:36] <Lure> Riddell: I am just not sure if I should just commit kenergy fix too (I would prefer another review), since the code looks unmaintained (and I did not get any response from last commiter)
[05:37] <Riddell> Lure: nothing from heliocastro?
[05:37] <Lure> Riddell: no, I have sent mails week back
[05:37] <Riddell> Lure: just commit then and CC helio
[05:37] <sebas> Lure: Send it to kde-devel and tell that you'll commit it if noone objects within three days
[05:37] <sebas> Or do what Riddell says, even better :-)
[05:38] <Riddell> well, if you're patient do as sebas says :)
[05:38] <sebas> nonononono, do as Riddell says ;-)
[05:39] <Lure> sebas: ok, will commit and CC helio - I am 100% sure it is the way to go, just would feel better if someone could review it
[05:39] <ryanakca> lol
[05:39] <Riddell> Lure: mind and sync to KDE 4 too if the code is still in KDE 4
[05:40] <Lure> ryanakca: btw, Hobbsee has uploaded new eqonomize 0.4 (which you packaged)
[05:40] <ryanakca> oh?
[05:40] <Lure> Riddell: I hope this code is not there anymore ;-)
[05:40] <Lure> Riddell: I did not find l10n stuff in kde4 (still searching)
[05:41] <Lure> ryanakca: I started using it recently and needed upgrade, so I updated it to new release
[05:41] <ryanakca> kk
[05:48] <Lure> Riddell: btw, did you find the cause for missing language installer/selector buttons?
[05:49] <Riddell> Lure: no, not looked at it
[05:49] <Riddell> apt is broken on my machine, so it's hard to update it
[05:49] <Lure> Riddell: np, I started it from command line anyhow
[05:56] <mhb> Who wants to make me happy and fix bug 78209 ?
[05:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78209 in kubuntu-meta "[feisty]  Bad fonts with the latest Feisty upgrade " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78209
[06:06] <ryanakca> mhb: reboot maybe to reload some fonts? (just guessing about half that sentence)
[06:06] <ryanakca> or wait, nevermind... antialiasing or whatever it's called on?
[06:09] <Lure> mhb: true, todays upgrade did change (to worse) also on my system
[06:12] <Lure> mhb: have changed package to fontconfig which is probable suspect
[06:19] <mhb> Lure: probably
[06:27] <mhb> Lure: thanks
[07:03] <mhb> it seems the last fontconfig upgrade has fixed problems with local characters but introduced the problem with rendering :o)
[07:36] <Jucato> Riddell: kick damien_karras?
[07:37] <Riddell> Jucato: yes please
[07:37] <mhb> eh?
[07:39] <Riddell> #kubuntu
[07:39] <Jucato> some troll...
[08:05] <manchicken> Hmm...  Anybody seen Tonio??
[08:06] <manchicken> I really hope he hasn't been abducted by aliens or something.
[08:06] <manchicken> That would be most unfortunate ;)
[08:07] <mhb> manchicken: read the logs
[08:07] <mhb> manchicken: from yesterday early
[08:07] <mhb> manchicken: truth is, you're not going to see him here anytime soon
[08:08] <manchicken> Oh?
[08:08] <manchicken> It was aliens, wasn't it?
[08:09] <mhb> manchicken: worse
[08:09] <manchicken> (where might I find the logs?)
[08:09] <Lure> manchicken: has some personal reasons to be away
[08:09] <manchicken> That's cool.
[08:09] <Lure> !irclogs
[08:09] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about irclogs - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[08:09] <mhb> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/kubuntu-devel-2007-01-05.html
[08:09] <mhb> search for Tonio
[08:10] <Lure> manchicken: btw, great work on system settings - I like tabs more than old stuff
[08:10] <manchicken> Groovy.
[08:11] <manchicken> Aww, that's so sad.
[08:12] <manchicken> I had the opposite happen to me.  That is worse than being abducted by aliens.
[08:14] <manchicken> Ignorance hurts us all.  Either way... here's one for the homies.
[08:17] <manchicken> Anybody else good at merges?
[08:18] <manchicken> err, patches, whatever...
[08:24] <Lure> manchicken: what do you want to do?
[08:24] <manchicken> This patch is giving me a headache.
[08:25] <manchicken> I have no idea why, but it won't apply.
[08:27] <Lure> patch for what?
[08:28] <manchicken> I've been working on the recommended UI changes to the sources editor in adept.
[08:28] <manchicken> Or at least I was ^_^
[08:28] <manchicken> Before vacation.
[08:28] <Riddell> manchicken: which recommended changes?
[08:29] <manchicken> The one where it's not just a listview control with a bunch of text, but where it's more gui-ified.
[08:29] <manchicken> I actually had a screenshot I was working on...
[08:29] <manchicken> Where's the UI recommendations page?
[08:30] <mhb> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/AdeptUsability this one?
[08:30] <manchicken> I believe that be the feller.
[08:30] <Riddell> manchicken: the feisty plan I had was to replace it with a qt version of the editor used in ubuntu
[08:30] <Riddell> which is a python app
[08:30] <manchicken> Ah.
[08:30] <manchicken> Nobody tells me these things ;)
[08:31] <manchicken> That's cool by me though.
[08:31] <Riddell> if you know python, you're very welcome to start on it
[08:32] <manchicken> Pssht.  Like you actually need to know a language to use it?
[08:32] <manchicken> ^_^
[08:32] <Riddell> it's part of the ubuntu upgrade tool at the moment
[08:32] <manchicken> Oh, semantic or whatever?
[08:33] <mhb> synaptic ? :o)
[08:33] <manchicken> That's it.
[08:33] <manchicken> I wasn't sure if it was named similar to the norton people or the touchpad people _^^
[08:33] <manchicken> So easy to confuse the two.
[08:33] <Riddell> it's not part of synaptic
[08:34] <Riddell> synaptic has it's own one, but it calls the nicer ubuntu one if it's available instead
[08:34] <manchicken> We should probably have some notes next to these items if we actually have plans for implementation on them.
[08:35] <manchicken> Oh, so you're just talking about porting that proggy from GTK to Qt?
[08:36] <Riddell> manchicken: yes
[08:37] <Riddell> then small patch to adept to make it do the same as synaptic, and use the nicer editor if it's available
[08:37] <Riddell> manchicken: take a look at kubuntu-feisty-adept-plan or whatever it's called to see similar ideas
[08:38] <Riddell> manchicken: we also have a branch of adept in lauchpad.net/products/adept now that you can branch from
[08:38] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuFeistyAdeptChanges
[08:38] <Riddell> manchicken: and praetor has been doing adept stuff (getting to to do the dist upgrade check)
[08:42] <manchicken> Well, if you have another thing that could use hacking, I could use a fresh project to wrap my head around.
[08:43] <manchicken> As many problems as people say there are with adept, it's a damn usable proggy.
[08:44] <manchicken> Though the code.... nevermind.
[08:44] <manchicken> ^_^
[08:44] <mhb> manchicken: I disagree though. The UI looks very cluttered, until recently it had problems with translations.
[08:45] <manchicken> I agree with all of those.
[08:45] <manchicken> But have you ever tried to use YaST2 or Smart for updates and installs?
[08:45] <manchicken> *THAT* is what I'm comparing it to.
[08:46] <manchicken> Those programs have a better UI, but when you try to install stuff, you get conflicts, you get broken dependencies, and above all, you get mysterious crashes that are damn-near impossible to replicate.
[08:47] <manchicken> I use adept all the time.
[08:47] <manchicken> I have no trouble with it.  I suppose I'm just less picky.
[08:47] <manchicken> ^_^
[08:47] <hunger> manchicken: I don't get adept. But then I have not tried since sbortly before breezy.
[08:47] <manchicken> Even my wife uses the add/remove programs version of adept.
[08:49] <Riddell> Lure: I disagree that "polling still required" is not a major issue
[08:50] <Lure> Riddell: what is your concern? It is quite lite on cpu...
[08:51] <Lure> Riddell: if you do not agree, feel free to change the state in wiki
[08:51] <Riddell> Lure: it means the computer will never be idle, that's not good on battery life
[08:51] <Lure> Riddell: right, but since we do not have tickless kernel it is not idle anyway ;-)
[08:51] <Lure> Riddell: btw, Fedora 7 will have tickless kernel
[08:52] <Lure> Riddell: I agree that polling is ugly and uses cpu (which it should not), but I do not see it as major issue (no user complained)
[08:52] <manchicken> Riddell: So what do you want/need me to do?
[08:53] <Lure> Riddell: so it is not very visible
[08:53] <manchicken> You're the director of this road-show.
[08:53] <Lure> manchicken: is the bug with adept and dpkg interactive fixes (flash, java packages)?
[08:54] <manchicken> And I found a way to run chroot and tell the difference between proggies running in chroot and proggies not running in chroot ^_^
[08:54] <Riddell> manchicken: if you fancy some python you could port the ubuntu souces.list editor to qt 4.  if you prefer c++ you could add the main/universe support to adept
[08:54] <manchicken> Use a different user ^_^
[08:54] <mhb> Lure: my computer is very noisy and should use less CPU. Is it enough? :o)
[08:54] <Riddell> Lure: it's not, but I'll get to it
[08:54] <manchicken> Lure: Naw.  I'm not sure where that bug lies.  I think it may just be a focus issue.
[08:55] <Lure> mhb: switch back to dapper (kernel of dapper was way better than edgy or current feisty) - but only in regard to battery life
[08:55] <manchicken> Although it'd be nice if there was a way to present that stuff in a GUI.
[08:55] <Lure> manchicken: it is ICE_AUTHORITY issue
[08:55] <manchicken> Riddell: Do you know what package that sources editor is?
[08:55] <manchicken> Oh, really?
[08:56] <manchicken> I didn't think it'd be that deep.  Though I suppose I never really looked into it.
[08:56] <manchicken> I don't really install non-free packages, so I never really see it.
[08:56] <mhb> Lure: battery life is quite important for me
[08:56] <Lure> manchicken: at least this was seen when it was "debugged" at UDS-MtView with Simon Law
[08:56] <manchicken> Most of those packages aren't even compiled for amd64.
[08:56] <mhb> Lure: and I guess it is for many users
[08:57] <mhb> Lure: but most of them don't know that it can be improved - therefore they don't complain :o)
[08:57] <Lure> mhb: agreed.
[08:57] <manchicken> Riddell: I'll do which ever you want me to do.  You're the director of this road-show.  I'm just the fat red-bearded guy with ADD, too much free time, a 6-pack, and a jigsaw puzzle.
[08:57] <Lure> mhb: the problem is that we cannot fix polling due to PyKDE/dbus issues
[08:58] <Lure> manchicken: lol
[08:58] <manchicken> My three goals for the day have to do with beer, code, and jigsaw puzzles.
[08:58] <mhb> manchicken: do the adept then :o)
[08:58] <mhb> manchicken: as Jonathan suggested
[08:59] <Lure> manchicken: if you want to mess with kdepim, you may want to get some patches from suse for networkstatus
[08:59] <Riddell> manchicken: since I can't find where the sources editor is just now, maybe you could look at adding a main/universe notification to adept
[08:59] <manchicken> mhb: He suggested two possible things.  I have no preference.
[08:59] <Lure> manchicken: described in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuFeistyNetworking
[09:00] <mhb> manchicken: if you know how to write python, you can do the souces.list editor
[09:00] <Lure> manchicken: I plan to do this when I find some time, but probably not that soon
[09:00] <mhb> manchicken: I can help with that (although I have my own stuff to do)
[09:00] <manchicken> I don't really KNOW any language.  Except maybe C and Perl.
[09:00] <manchicken> One language is as good as another.
[09:00] <manchicken> ^_^
[09:01] <manchicken> Let me look at this spec here.
[09:02] <manchicken> Either way, I'm happy that at least I get to MURDER this patch headache.
[09:02] <manchicken> Do you know the package for the python proggy?
[09:03] <Riddell> got it, it's /usr/bin/software-properties from update-manager
[09:03] <Riddell> manchicken: ^^
[09:03] <manchicken> cool
[09:04] <Riddell> manchicken: so bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/+branch/update-manager/main  and code away
[09:05] <mhb> manchicken: if possible make a public bzr branch so we can take part or help too :o)
[09:05] <manchicken> I have no idea what you're talking about ^_^
[09:06] <manchicken> DARNIT!  intltool is 404ing on install.
[09:06] <manchicken> That might not be good.
[09:06] <manchicken> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/i/intltool/intltool_0.35.1-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[09:08] <Riddell> sudo apt-get update
[09:08] <manchicken> Argh.
[09:08] <manchicken> I should probably upgrade, too.
[09:09] <manchicken> I haven't updated my feisty chroot since mid-december.
[09:16] <manchicken> Wow, lots of updates.
[09:19] <manchicken> Is there a code-freeze date set?
[09:20] <Riddell> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/FeistyReleaseSchedule
[09:20] <Riddell> February 8th for all features
[09:20] <Riddell> the feature doesn't have to be working, but it has to be in
[09:21] <manchicken> w00t!  My birthday!
[09:21] <manchicken> I'll be 25 on the code-freeze.
[09:21] <Riddell> cool :)
[09:21] <manchicken> what's GNU-HALO?  Just a WM?
[09:26] <Riddell> no idea
[09:29] <elcuco> hi all
[09:30] <Riddell> yo elcuco
[09:30] <elcuco> crap, 24 is starting :)
[09:30] <Riddell> really?
[09:30] <Riddell> the new series?
[09:30] <elcuco> no... the old one...
[09:31] <elcuco> anyway, the livecd needs to have hebrew suport. how can i help with this
[09:33] <Riddell> elcuco: there's no space on the CD for more languages
[09:33] <Riddell> elcuco: isn't it an installed system you are having the problem with?
[09:33] <elcuco> on my system it is (i guess). i have kde-i18n-he. this should be enough for kde
[09:34] <manchicken> Maybe we should take off one of the proprietary packages to make room ;)
[09:34] <manchicken> heh
[09:34] <elcuco> manchicken: :)
[09:36] <Riddell> elcuco: it needs language-pack-kde-he-base
[09:36] <Riddell> and language-pack-he-base
[09:38] <elcuco> Riddell: when you come back, both are installed
[09:39] <elcuco> Riddell: when you come back, both were installed
[10:08] <Riddell> elcuco: so hmm, I'm out of ideas
[10:09] <elcuco> Riddell: about kdesktop beein ltr, it's wierd. since kapplication reversed the layout according to some string defined in kdelibs.po. however, kde is translated (i am quite sure as I see the hebrew UI).
[10:09] <elcuco> this might be a problem with caching, or some ugly patch done to kdebase.
[10:14] <Riddell> elcuco: try it with a new user maybe
[10:15] <Riddell> elcuco: does kicker and konqueror et al all go reversed?
[10:15] <elcuco> ok, adduser or is there a cool funky kubuntu gui?
[10:15] <elcuco> Riddell: all the applications are hebrew translated and RTL, the only problem is kdesktop, which is LTR
[10:16] <Riddell> elcuco: adduser is easiest if you are a command line user
[10:17] <elcuco> i hate cli
[10:19] <Riddell> ah well, use system settings then
[10:21] <elcuco> i think i understand what happens... now wht
[10:21] <elcuco> it looks like kdesktop cannot load kdelibs.po. i see some basic strings in english.
[10:22] <elcuco> now, i need to understand how can i "strace" kdesktop....
[10:25] <elcuco> mv kdesktop kdekstop.bin && echo "strace -f -o /tmp/1.txt" > kdesktop && chmod +x kdekstop
[10:25] <Riddell> you can just killall kdesktop and start it again from the command line
[10:26] <elcuco> that could work
[10:26] <manchicken> Riddell: Are you just wanting software-properties/
[10:26] <Riddell> manchicken: nope
[10:26] <Riddell> manchicken: oh, yes
[10:26] <Riddell> sorry, mis-read you
[10:26] <Riddell> manchicken: wanting it ported to qt4?  yes
[10:26] <manchicken> So you want me to rip software-properties out of update-manager?
[10:26] <Riddell> manchicken: no, we'll let mvo do that later
[10:27] <Riddell> just keep it all in the same tree for now
[10:27] <manchicken> Righto.
[10:33] <elcuco> ok, that was fun...
[10:33] <elcuco> anyway, it seems kdesktop does not load kdelibs.po at all. i tested also kdialog and that one does.
[10:34] <elcuco> i assume there is something wrong in kdesktop in kubuntu
[10:36] <manchicken> Grumble...
[10:36] <manchicken> update-manager doesn't seem to have cdbs-edit-patch working....
[10:37] <manchicken> Stops with... make: *** No rule to make target `apply-patches'.  Stop.
[10:38] <Riddell> apt-get build-dep update-manager?
[10:39] <manchicken> Nothing there.
[10:40] <manchicken> I type cdbs-edit-patch kubuntu_qtport_pass0 and it goes, and finally dies on that error I pasted.
[10:41] <Riddell> don't edit a patch
[10:42] <Riddell> branch the bzr archive and work from that
[10:46] <manchicken> I have no idea how to do such a thing.
[10:46] <manchicken> Normally I've been just apt-get sourcing and working off of that.
[11:00] <Lure> manchicken: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainedPackages might help
[11:05] <manchicken> So I'm guessing I should go off of the main branch?
[11:06] <manchicken> So I would bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main ./ then?
[11:06] <manchicken> or would I bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/qtport
[11:07] <manchicken> (I don't know why we're not just using svn...)
[11:15] <manchicken> Okay, how do you build a package that you gram from bzr?  Just dpkg-buildpackage?
[12:07] <fdoving> manchicken: bzr-builddeb
[12:08] <manchicken> What package is that in?
[12:08] <fdoving> you can find it at http://jameswestby.net/debian/
[12:08] <fdoving> you also need python-debian
[12:08] <fdoving> on the same url.
[12:09] <manchicken> Really?  No "official" packages for that?  Interesting.
[12:11] <manchicken> Nice.  It requires an old version of python...
[12:14] <manchicken> Not working.