[01:41] <J-_> What does it take to get on the doc team?
[01:42] <mdke> J-_: a few patches :)
[01:42] <mdke> J-_: see the link to my blog in the topic
[01:43] <J-_> Cool, thanks.
[01:44] <crimsun> mdke: see, the link pays off already
[01:45] <mdke> crimsun: that's my second use :)
[01:45] <crimsun> :)
[06:00] <somerville32> mdke: ping
[06:00] <LaserJock> somerville32: he should be asleep
[06:00] <LaserJock> will probably be up in 3 hrs or so
[06:01] <somerville32> LaserJock: Do you know anyone else who is on the ubuntu website team?
[06:01] <LaserJock> Corey is
[06:01] <LaserJock> but he's not around
[06:03] <somerville32> " 2005 Canonical Ltd. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Canonical are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd."
[06:03] <somerville32> Do you see whats wrong with that?
[06:04] <somerville32> LaserJock, No mention of Xubuntu : (
[06:04] <somerville32> Or wait a second
[06:04] <somerville32> Maybe I'm wrong
[06:04] <somerville32> What if Xubuntu isn't a registered trademark?
[06:04] <LaserJock> that's entirely possible
[06:05] <LaserJock> I don't know that Canonical "owns" Xubuntu that way
[06:05] <somerville32> It is just like Kubuntu or Edubuntu, apparently
[06:05] <LaserJock> I don't think so
[06:05] <LaserJock> at least it wasn't
[06:06] <LaserJock> could have changed though since I last heard
[06:06] <somerville32> We're on a canonical server, canonical builds our ISOs, etc.
[06:06] <LaserJock> but they don't sell support for it, that I know of
[06:06] <LaserJock> and there isn't a paid dev
[06:07] <somerville32> Do they sell support for Kubuntu?
[06:07] <LaserJock> yep
[06:07] <somerville32> Doh :(
[06:07] <LaserJock> and edubuntu
[06:07] <LaserJock> well, it's just a matter of demand, etc.
[06:07] <LaserJock> Xubuntu is the youngest of the four
[06:07] <Jucato> I thought Xubuntu was also officially supported now?
[06:08] <LaserJock> well, "officially supported" can mean a lot
[06:08] <LaserJock> a lot of different things that is
[06:08] <Jucato> by Canonical
[06:08] <LaserJock> crimsun: do you happen to know ^^?
[06:08] <LaserJock> yes, but what does "support" and "official" mean in this context?
[06:08] <somerville32> We should lobby Canonical to start paying crimsun
[06:09] <LaserJock> hehe, +1 for that
[06:09] <crimsun> Xubuntu is supported by Canonical, yes.
[06:09] <LaserJock> is "Xubuntu" trademarked by Canonical?
[06:09] <LaserJock> that was our original question I guess ;-)
[06:09] <crimsun> yes.
[06:10] <somerville32> crimsun: Can we start lobbying Canonical to start paying you?
[06:10] <crimsun> you may not on my behalf, no.
[06:10] <somerville32> As a third party?
[06:10] <LaserJock> somerville32: there's your answer, file a bug against ubuntu-website and see what happens
[06:11] <crimsun> I'm technically disallowed from having any foreign contracts.
[06:11] <somerville32> We could argue that Canonical is an international organization ;] 
[06:11] <cellofellow> and Canonical is foreign?
[06:11] <LaserJock> it's officially in Isle of Man, right?
[06:13] <crimsun> it's not US-based, and that's the cruncher.
[06:13] <somerville32> crimsun: Can I send you some small change?
[06:13] <crimsun> no you may not.
[06:15] <Laser_away> heh
[10:56] <mdke> somerville32: http://err.no/personal/blog/2006/Oct/10#2006-10-10-12-05_contentless_pings
[10:56] <mdke> I need to install that script...
[10:56] <somerville32> :] 
[10:56] <somerville32> But I'm here!
[10:56] <somerville32> Wheres my pong?
[10:57] <somerville32> I think pings are useful
[10:57] <somerville32> For example
[10:57] <somerville32> In this case, I pinged you to see if you were around
[10:57] <somerville32> If you were, I would then have asked you about the copyright notice
[10:58] <somerville32> However, if I had forgone the ping and just asked you the question and then went to someone else (such as corey) and got them to fix the issue, you might get confused when you go to fix the issue.
[10:58] <somerville32> *you might have gotten when you went to fix the issue
[10:58] <somerville32> lol
[10:59] <mdke> did you file a bug or not?
[10:59] <somerville32> mdke: Not yet
[11:00] <somerville32> I've been busy working on an SRU
[11:00] <somerville32> I'll file a bug in a second
[11:01] <mdke> and we're sure Xubuntu is a registered trademark?
[11:01] <somerville32> Crimsun says so
[11:01] <somerville32> And it is on the xubuntu website as so
[11:01] <somerville32> Which means Jonathon thinks so
[11:02] <mdke> ok. Include that the copyright date is old too
[11:05] <mdke> somerville32: and while we're on the subject of how to contact me, no need to cc me on mails going to mailing lists, if I post to a mailing list, I'll read the reply there
[11:05] <somerville32> mdke: My client does it automatically
[11:06] <mdke> somerville32: that's no excuse!
[11:06] <somerville32> I mean... I guess I could remove you manually
[11:06] <mdke> you could, or use reply to list
[11:06] <somerville32> However, I thought people _liked_ it like that
[11:06] <somerville32> Thats why the reply-to isn't set to the list or something
[11:07] <mdke> some people do, but not me. And on Ubuntu lists, the policy is to avoid it
[11:07] <mdke> (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/lists/etiquette)
[11:08] <mdke> gimme a ping
[11:09] <somerville32> mdke: ping
[11:10] <mdke> anything happen?
[11:11] <somerville32> nope
[11:11] <somerville32> and I just read the etiquette thinger
[11:11] <somerville32> and it says to use reply all
[11:12] <mdke> you didn't read it very carefully!
[11:12] <mdke> "When replying to messages, use your email client's Reply To List function, rather than "Reply" or "Reply To All"."
[11:12] <mdke> I should know, I wrote it
[11:12] <somerville32> @now atlantic
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Current time in Canada/Atlantic: January 07 2007, 06:12:40
[11:13] <mdke> wonder why the script doesn't work
[11:33] <somerville32> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+bug/78285
[11:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78285 in ubuntu-website "Copyright notice requires update" [Undecided,Unconfirmed] 
[11:33] <mdke> thanks
[05:44] <froud> jeffsch: what' s the status of adept documentation upstream?
[05:52] <mdke> froud: jjesse is trying to poke some documentation upstream at the moment
[05:53] <froud> mdke: you mean I got the wrong person?
[05:55] <mdke> froud: well, yeah, but I was hoping to answer your question too
[06:04] <froud> mdke: you know if jjesse completed the document?
[06:04] <mdke> froud: I believe he is still working on it, I saw some changes in our repo this week
[06:04] <froud> mdke: I think if he has I can add it to kde bug and ask Riddle to apply it
[06:08] <froud> mdke: OK, I just added Kompare docs today and already they have been improved so they may make 3.5.7
[06:08] <mdke> ah
[06:09] <froud> mdke: u now a regular on lug radio?
[06:09] <mdke> ??
[06:09] <mdke> froud: maybe you're thinking of matthew revell?
[06:09] <froud> mdke: ah yes
[06:09] <froud> sorry
[06:09] <mdke> :)
[06:10] <froud> abt time you became a feature there, no?
[06:10] <mdke> froud: I think they all come from the same city, I haven't met em face to face. I was on it once though
[06:10] <froud> mdke: I heard it yes
[06:11] <froud> mdke: nice one
[06:11] <mdke> heh
[06:11] <froud> bonkers they are
[06:11] <mdke> they are yeah
[06:11] <mdke> good fun
[06:11] <mdke> two of them working for Canonical now, I guess you know
[06:11] <froud> yes, did you listen to the last show
[06:11] <froud> yes
[06:12] <mdke> I have to confess I don't listen to it regularly
[06:12] <froud> catch the new years one
[06:12] <mdke> will download it
[06:12] <froud> they make the predictions for the next year
[06:12] <froud> and look back on last years predictions
[06:13] <mdke> I'll take a look. Should be a good year for free software, hopefully
[06:15] <froud> mdke: you know I am now full time using Kubuntu
[06:15] <froud> mdke: ditch the SuSE horse
[06:17] <mdke> froud: was that for technical reasons or otherwise?
[06:19] <froud> mdke: MS + Novell
[06:20] <froud> Chicken marries the Fox and Fox moves into the hen house
[06:20] <mdke> yeah
[06:20] <mdke> unfortunate
[06:20] <froud> Also I had several problems with ditro upgrades
[08:00] <froud> mdke: did the solution posted to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/78135 work?
[08:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78135 in ubuntu-doc "All entities have unwanted space before and after them" [Undecided,In progress] 
[08:05] <ryanakca> mdke: what's a new ubuntu doc?
[08:24] <mdke> froud: haven't tried yet.
[08:24] <mdke> ryanakca: I don't understand the question
[08:25] <ryanakca> mdke: nevermind
[08:25] <ryanakca> I was looking for an example for gnomefreak... for the NUN meeting
[08:25] <froud> mdke: k
[08:28] <mdke> ryanakca: I don't know what a "new ubuntu doc" means... you mean something for contributing to ubuntu-doc?
[08:29] <ryanakca> I was looking for a doc that had been recently written/published/etc
[08:29] <mdke> hmm
[09:11] <mpt> mdke, around?
[09:11] <mdke> mpt: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
[09:12] <mpt> :-X
[09:12] <mpt> mdke, asquare?
[09:13] <mpt> a-ha
[09:14] <nixternal> lol
[09:14] <nixternal> i see he got that script working
[10:11] <mdke> mpt: ?
[10:15] <mdke> mpt: I could have answered your question by now, if you'd asked it!! >_<
[10:16] <somerville32> lol
[10:43] <mpt> mdke, I was wondering if the entity spacing problem could be solved by including all entities inline in gnome-menus-C.ent rather than in their own XML files
[10:44] <mdke> mpt: yes, if they were all on one line, why not?
[10:44] <mpt> (And, sorry, the verbosity of your contentless pong wound me up a little:-)
[10:44] <mdke> mpt: it is the default text, I've now removed the second sentence
[10:44] <mdke> maybe I should reword the first sentence too
[10:44] <mpt> "" would be a good replacement for the first
[10:45] <mpt> hugs!!!
[10:46] <mpt> We're the Ubuntu Documentation Team. Our mission is to have more hugs than the Ubuntu Desktop Team.
[10:46] <mdke> surely impossible
[10:47] <mdke> I wonder if you can have entities inside entities
[10:47] <mdke> presumably yes
[10:47] <mdke> so we can shorten the lines in gnome-menus-C.ent by defining the base menus already as their own entities
[10:47] <mpt> <!ENTITY gnu '&gnu;'s Not Unix'>
[10:47] <mdke> anyway, just fixing the bug would work for now
[10:47] <mdke> lol
[10:47] <mdke> that's rather clever
[10:49] <mpt> hmm, 1.2 MB of hard disk space left
[10:49] <mpt> that's a little low
[10:49] <mdke> mpt: I'll have a go with your idea. it might be simpler than a script removing EOL all the time
[10:49] <mpt> yes
[10:49] <mpt> It would increase the probability of conflicts
[10:50] <mpt> but keeping the entities in alphabetical order should keep that probability low.
[10:50] <mpt> (where by "conflicts" I mean "VCS conflicts")
[10:52] <mdke> COME BACK
[10:53] <mdke> THAT'S AN ORDER
[10:53] <LaserJock> heh
[10:54] <mdke> anyway, it works
[10:54] <mdke> mpt has a big brain
[10:59] <somerville32> :)
[11:07] <mdke> mpt: it works
[11:07] <mdke> mpt: however... it will take a long time to move everything. Do you know any l33t coding skilz which might assist?
[11:09] <mpt> mdke, it looks like a job for awk or perl
[11:09] <mpt> (or python, of course)
[11:09] <mdke> mpt: the end of lines and whitespaces between the tags need to be removed, as does "SYSTEM" in gnome-menus-C.ent
[11:09] <mpt> I suggest posting to ubuntu-devel-discuss with exact requirements, including URLs to the relevant files, and asking for volunteers :-)
[11:10] <mdke> I will ask the mighty dholbach
[11:10] <mdke> if you're seriously suggesting that a man of your power can't do it
[11:11] <mpt> the reason I say that is there are probably many people subscribed to ubuntu-devel-discuss who could come up with scripts (and check each other's code on the list), who don't otherwise have as much to do as the mighty dholbach
[11:11] <LaserJock> what's wrong with the entities?
[11:11] <mdke> mpt: alright, grumph
[11:12] <mpt> LaserJock, they have unwanted space before and after, which is a problem when you want punctuation immediately before and/or after
[11:12] <LaserJock> h I see
[11:12] <LaserJock> *ah
[11:16] <mdke> mpt: by the way, you me me eulogising your brain while you were out of the room, thanks for finding that fix
[11:16] <mdke> you missed me*
 mpt has a big brain
[11:18] <mdke> quite
[11:20] <mpt> It's a problem when I buy hats
[11:21] <mpt> or bike helmets
[11:21] <LaserJock> I bet
[11:22] <mpt> but if it helps make Ubuntu Help look better, it's all worthwhile :-P
[11:23] <mdke> mailed
[11:35] <somerville32> I might be able to help
[11:36] <mdke> somerville32: that would be cool
[11:37] <nixternal> woohoo, got my grades today, and i qualified for advanced business law courses for the next module!!!
[11:37] <nixternal> 4.0 for CIS, and 4.0 for MBA
[11:37] <mdke> well done nixternal
[11:37] <nixternal> i haven't gotten grades this good since kindergarten :)
[11:38] <mdke> 4 is good in the US?
[11:38] <nixternal> 4 out of 4
[11:38] <nixternal> 4.0 = A, 3.0 = B and so on here
[11:38] <mdke> why 4?
[11:38] <mdke> (good job though)
[11:38] <nixternal> because that is as high as they could probably count :)
[11:39] <nixternal> how does your universities do it?
[11:39] <LaserJock> yeah, thumbs for counting is no good ;-)
[11:39] <mdke> out of 100
[11:39] <mdke> but they do weird things too
[11:39] <nixternal> ahh, they do the same here, 90-100 == 4.0, 80-89 == 3.0, and so on
[11:40] <mdke> 70-100 is "First Class", 60-70 is "2:1", 50-60 is "2:2", etc
[11:40] <nixternal> they take the overall percentage and turn it into a GPA
[11:40] <nixternal> oh ya, first class, that's right
[11:40] <LaserJock> nixternal: more like 90-100 == A == 4.0
[11:40] <nixternal> my x-wife told me about all of that now that I remember
[11:41] <nixternal> though i don't know how much longer she will be my x-wife ;)
[11:41] <mdke> perhaps not so different then
[11:41] <mdke> nixternal: you planning an assassination?
[11:41] <nixternal> is that what you call marriage over there?
[11:41] <nixternal> we have been reconciling over the years
[11:41] <mdke> nope
[11:41] <LaserJock> heh
[11:41] <nixternal> plus she works for the gov't, so i don't get involved
[11:42] <mdke> it was one of the two possibilities for you thinking she wouldn't be your ex-wife much longer
[11:42] <nixternal> hehe
[11:42] <mdke> I figured it was the less likely one, so made a joke about it
[11:42] <nixternal> i just might look into persuing business law. i am so entrigued by it
[11:42] <LaserJock> ug
[11:42] <nixternal> hehe
[11:43] <LaserJock> try science :-)
[11:43] <mdke> law is good
[11:43] <nixternal> law is very interesting to me, but not doing it on an "attorney" level
[11:43] <nixternal> US Judges sicken me
[11:43] <LaserJock> I think I would like studying law, just not being a lawyer :/
[11:43] <mdke> being a lawyer is better
[11:43] <LaserJock> nixternal: here in Reno we have the "National Judicial College"
[11:44] <nixternal> exactly what i want to do. so when i start a new business i don't need full-time lawyers again
[11:44] <mdke> I'll represent you when you get in trouble
[11:44] <nixternal> can you believe my contract with the Chicago Cubs is coming to an end, and they are only giving me a weeks worth of box tickets
[11:44] <LaserJock> :(
[11:44] <nixternal> mdke: i will take you up on that when i go global
[11:44] <nixternal> :)
[11:44] <mdke> nixternal: I had my fingers crossed
[11:45] <nixternal> hehe
[11:45] <LaserJock> nixternal international, Inc. Ltd. blah blah blah
[11:45] <mdke> nixternal: I keep em permanently crossed, it's a lawyer thing
[11:45] <nixternal> my last company which I sold was an LLC
[11:45] <LaserJock> ah, I like the sound of LLC
[11:45] <nixternal> limited liability, can't beat it
[11:45] <mdke> presumably, it means LTD
[11:45] <LaserJock> Inc. always sounds like a cartoon or something
[11:46] <nixternal> mdke: about the same yes
[11:46] <mdke> nixternal: well, it is the same :)
[11:46] <nixternal> actually, i believe now if you have an LLC you can do the Ltd
[11:46] <nixternal> i did mine the smart way though, i put 96% of the shares in my x-wifes name, making it a woman owned organisation
[11:47] <nixternal> means most of the big contracts were won by me
[11:47] <mdke> omg
[11:47] <mdke> shocking
[11:47] <nixternal> s/big/bid
[11:48] <LaserJock> hmm, I had a website building "business" for like a year when I was around 15
[11:48] <nixternal> which allowed me to inflate proposed cost and time, and then come in under budget and in-time creates amazing word of mouth advertising
[11:48] <nixternal> that's how i obtained a majority of my clients
[11:48] <nixternal> LaserJock: haha i did the same
[11:48] <nixternal> i had 2 clients, both neighbors
[11:48] <LaserJock> I had probably 4 or 5
[11:49] <nixternal> i ran the site on tripod at that
[11:49] <LaserJock> golf course, ranch, etc.
[11:49] <nixternal> i made around $1000 for both jobs
[11:49] <LaserJock> I actually paid for a domain, etc.
[11:49] <LaserJock> bah
[11:49] <nixternal> i was to cheap, then domains cost $100/yr
[11:49] <LaserJock> I probably charged $100-$200
[11:49] <LaserJock> but I had a hard time billing people
[11:49] <LaserJock> I'm soooo not meant for business
[11:50] <nixternal> i miss having my own business, but i had no choice but to sell. i couldn't keep up with the compeitions cost, even though they were overselling
[11:50] <nixternal> which a majority of them do to this day
[11:51] <dsas> overselling is not inherently evil though. as long as it's managed properly it's not a problem.
[11:51] <nixternal> dsas: true, but it tends to get out of hand the more clients you establish
[11:52] <mdke> mpt: already got a script
[11:52] <nixternal> i provided t-1 through oc3 connections on demand, web hosting (all sorts), as well as business network modeling
[11:53] <dsas> possibly, that falls under "not managed properly" in my book
[11:53] <nixternal> all was fine except for the t-1 through oc-3 connections and the web hosting
[11:53] <dsas> you have to oversell to compete in web hosting..
[11:53] <nixternal> ya, and i didn't want to do it and have the worries
[11:54] <nixternal> i have kept most of my business clients though and still maintain their networks, which a majority are SAP/ERP and Automations type systems
[11:55] <nixternal> dsl has killed the t-1 on up market in the chicago land area
[11:56] <dsas> sounds interesting, they were just kicking off a SAP project at my work placement as I left..
[11:56] <nixternal> SAP is pretty neat once the whole system is combined
[11:58] <dsas> it sounded interesting, but seemed like it'd probably be a big, long project.
[11:58] <mpt> mdke, cool, does it work? :-)
[11:58] <nixternal> ya, they usually are. and tend to create more head aches the first 6 months after implementation as well
[11:58] <mdke> mpt: yes, uploaded already
[11:58] <mdke> that's pretty damn cool
[11:58] <mpt> committed the results, you mean?
[11:58] <mdke> yes
[11:59] <mpt> awesome
[11:59] <mdke> mpt: http://warma.dk/magic.py-source
[12:08] <LaserJock> ah, did Soren write one for you?
[12:10] <mdke> yes
[12:12] <LaserJock> that was fast
[12:13] <mdke> 5 minutes, give or take
[12:13] <mdke> ;)
[12:16] <nixternal> mdke: do i need to the same for kubuntu docs? and if so, how do you run the app?
[12:17] <mdke> hmm. I would have thought they'll have the bug too, good point