[12:16] <Wikipedia-Gast> I want to ask a question
[12:16] <hunger> Wikipedia-Gast: Shoot.
[12:17] <Wikipedia-Gast> what should I ask?
[12:18] <hunger> Wikipedia-Gast: Dunno. You wanted to ask a question.
[12:18] <Wikipedia-Gast> why?
[12:18] <gnomefreak> hunger: its a bot
[12:18] <Wikipedia-Gast> poor gnomefreak
[12:18] <jmr> Wikipedia-Gast is a long time troll, so you know
[12:18] <bhale> yeah this is boring
[12:18] <gnomefreak> its banned from all otehr ubuntu channels
[12:19] <bhale> Wikipedia-Gast: please ask a question or move on
[12:19] <Wikipedia-Gast> why is everything a bot, when it's not fitting in your picture`?
[12:19] <tseng> gnomefreak: yeah?
[12:19] <gnomefreak> go for it
[12:19] <gnomefreak> :)
[12:20] <gnomefreak> s/bot/tro;;
[12:20] <gnomefreak> troll even
[12:20] <gnomefreak> tseng: you should have been able to +o under bhale
[12:21] <tseng> gnomefreak: hm how?
[12:21] <tseng> i didnt link the nicks
[12:21] <tseng> too lazy
[12:21] <gnomefreak> oh
[12:21] <tseng> I should
[12:21] <tseng> [notice(NickServ:NickServ@services.)]  Your nickname is now linked to [bhale] 
[12:21] <tseng> rock
[12:22] <gnomefreak> :)
[12:22] <gnomefreak> makes life simple whne there are trolls that dont stop typing
[12:25] <jc-denton> shawarma: thx, but i just need a config, so /boot i s fine too
[12:26] <shawarma> jc-denton: Cool.
[12:27] <mdke> bhale: tseng was a great nick!
[12:28] <mdke> will he come back?
[12:28] <bhale> mdke: no sorry
[12:28] <mdke> :(
[12:36] <Kryczek> hi there
[12:36] <Kryczek> hoping to get a better response than in #ubuntu :)
[12:36] <Kryczek> Firefox is unusable since the last updates
[12:36] <Kryczek> the menubar is totally gone
[12:36] <Kryczek> and yes I reset my settings and tried -safe-mode
[12:37] <sistpoty> Kryczek: filed a bug report yet? (or looked if one is already there)?
[12:38] <Kryczek> I searched google :p
[12:38] <Kryczek> came to ask if you heard about that
[12:45] <somerville32> Kryczek, try searching http://launchpad.net for the bug :] 
[02:49] <theveginator> lots of activity going on here
[02:51] <LaserJock> party central
[02:55] <theveginator> everyone must be developing instead of talking about it
[02:56] <Hobbsee> quite likely
[02:56] <Hobbsee> and it's a sunday in most countries
[02:57] <theveginator> true
[02:58] <theveginator> so.....
[02:59] <zul> which reminds me i have to go watch family guy
[03:00] <Hobbsee> zul: *grin*
[03:00] <Hobbsee> zul: how's xen coming along?
[03:01] <_ion> Yay, new episodes are finally airing?
[03:18] <zul> Hobbsee, almost done the base stuff
[03:18] <Hobbsee> zul: nice :)
[03:46] <tmh__> how does ubuntu create ready module .debs from the kernel source packages?
[03:47] <tmh__> when I created my package with dh_make using the kernel module package type, it gave me a application.deb and an application-source.deb but now I have to install application-source and modules-asssistant -compile it on every one. I want a ready package.
[04:01] <sladen> tmh__: they are rebuilt when a new kernel is rebuilt
[04:03] <tmh__> so what? I have to rebuild the kernel itself as well?
[04:12] <tmh__> can I do that in pbuilder?
[04:15] <johanbr> tmh__: "fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd kernel_image" in the kernel source dir works well for me.
[04:17] <tmh__> but I wouldn't want to install all the -dev stuff on my machine. can I run make-kpgk in pbuilder or does it run like that on itself?
[04:21] <johanbr> It doesn't need pbuilder or anything like that, its dependencies are pretty light.
[05:35] <tmh__> why didn't debuild / pbuilder include the library.so that was with the application? it's missing from the final .deb
[05:38] <tmh__> I mean, is this a feature or have I screwed something?
[05:41] <tmh__> nevermind.
[06:13] <fabbione> morning
[06:14] <Hobbsee> morning fabbione!
[06:15] <somerville32> Morning! :)
[07:35] <pitti> Good morning
[07:35] <keescook> hiya pitti
[07:35] <keescook> Dang, I must be up late.  :)
[07:35] <fabbione> hey kees
[07:35] <keescook> hiya fabbione 
[07:36] <fabbione> keescook: once again? :)
[07:36] <keescook> heheh
[07:36] <keescook> was out at the bookstore getting a transit map for Sydney.  :)
[07:39] <pitti> hey keescook 
[07:39] <pitti> keescook: well, I got up pretty early
[07:40] <fabbione> keescook: are you going to LCA?
[07:40] <keescook> fabbione: yeah.  I'm not speaking, but IBM wanted me to go
[07:40] <fabbione> keescook: ok...
[07:41] <keescook> I've never been to Sydney; looks like a lot of fun.
[07:42] <fabbione> keescook: yeah it's a nice city but i was disappointed by the opera house
[07:43] <keescook> perhaps it was only built for postcards.  :)
[07:43] <fabbione> cjwatson: did you ever get around to upload that module alias for anna?
[07:44] <pitti> keescook: we had spent a week of holiday in Sydney, was pretty nice
[07:45] <pitti> keescook: I had my first surfing lesson there at Bondai beach :)
[07:45] <infinity> keescook: Going to swing by Melbourne and say "hi" while you're down here?
[07:45] <pitti> hey infinity, how are you?
[07:45] <keescook> pitti: nice!
[07:45] <infinity> pitti: Alive, back at work...  Sort of.  You? :)
[07:45] <infinity> (Well, already off for the day, actually)
[07:45] <keescook> infinity: sure!  Only like 600km or something, right?  :)  You're not gonna come up for LCA?
[07:46] <infinity> keescook: I was planning to speak at LCA, but Real Life got the better of me, and I'm not sure I'm keen on actually attending the conf.
[07:47] <keescook> infinity: cool.  I was going to meet up with a few of the aussie Inkscapers; you should come on up.  :)
[07:47] <infinity> keescook: Isn't Inkscape development based at Monash, in Melbourne?
[07:47] <keescook> ???
[07:48] <pitti> infinity: still waking up, but fine
[07:48] <keescook> most of the dudes I know are in Brisbane
[07:48] <infinity> Pehaps I'm thinking of some other equally funky open source app.
[07:58] <Lathiat> not keen on lca? pfeh ;)
[08:00] <jdub> not keen on lca?!
[08:01] <jdub> Lathiat: more "thwack" than "pfeh"
[08:01] <jdub> ;)
[08:38] <lifeless> pitti: haven't seen a reply from you on the apport discussion
[08:38] <lifeless> pitti: just reminding you ;)
[08:38] <pitti> lifeless: hi
[08:38] <pitti> lifeless: which discussion?
[08:41] <dholbach> good morning
[08:44] <lifeless> pitti: handling crashes in e.g. cron-apt and apache
[08:45] <pitti> lifeless: ah, right, bug 62316
[08:45] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62316 in apport "Provide GUI access to crash reports from root programs" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62316
[08:47] <pitti> lifeless: the only idea I have is to check whether the current user is an admin, and if so, call gksu apport-gtk for him (the usual way through update-notifier); do you have something better in mind?
[09:23] <fabbione> cjwatson: i took the freedom to upload d-i to catch up with the latest kernel, but can you confirm that there are no bzr branches for that package? i couldn't find it on code.l.n
[09:49] <fabbione> ~ # ./bus /dev/sda1
[09:49] <fabbione> disk /pci@1f,0/pci@1,1/scsi@2/disk@0,0 :a
[09:49] <fabbione> now we can modify sparc BIOS from d-i :)
[09:59] <pitti> cjwatson: do you have some minutes today to sort out the approvals/accepting of the tzdata and gnome-system-tools SRUs?
[10:00] <pitti> cjwatson: (status: tzdata/edgy uploaded, waiting for accept; tzdata/dapper waiting for approval; updated g-s-t with additional gksu fix awaiting approval)
[10:06] <lifeless> pitti: did you see my email late last week ?
[10:06] <fabbione> pitti: tzdata in dapper was already a separate package or was still part of glibc?
[10:07] <lifeless> pitti: I think the use case we should aim for is 'apache crashes, the user [perhaps requiring the user to be an admin user]  gets a spider icon in the notification area, which when clicked takes them into apport [perhaps needing gtksudo there] 
[10:08] <pitti> lifeless: I don't have a mail from you about that in my ubuntu folder
[10:08] <pitti> fabbione: right, in dapper it was in langpack-locales
[10:09] <pitti> fabbione: jbailey agreed to prepare a breezy update (where it was in glibc)
[10:09] <fabbione> pitti: ok perfect thanks
[10:09] <fabbione> cjwatson: glibc SRU doesn't need to wait for pitti :)
[10:09] <pitti> cjwatson: so sorry, s_tzdata/dapper_langpack-locales/dapper_
[10:09] <lifeless> pitti: it was to you, not ubuntu. 
[10:09] <lifeless> pitti: one of the things I asked was, 'should we take this to ubuntu-devel' :)
[10:09] <pitti> lifeless: right, 'martin.pitt@ubuntu.com' lands in my ubuntu folder
[10:09] <lifeless> ah
[10:10] <pitti> lifeless: u-devel@ WFM, although I'd also like to have it in the bug report
[10:11] <lifeless> pitti: forwarded the last mail to you anyway
[10:13] <pitti> lifeless: thanks
[10:14] <lucas> [POLL]  What do you think of Christer Edwards' posts on Planet Ubuntu ?
[10:14] <lucas> [A] You like them
[10:15] <lucas> [B] You don't read them and find them annoying
[10:15] <Fujitsu> C.
[10:15] <lucas> [C]  You don't read them and don't care, there's no policy after all
[10:15] <Fujitsu> Ah, B, then.
[10:16] <lucas> what would be your C ? :-)
[10:16] <Fujitsu> Something more negative than B :P
[10:16] <Mithrandir> I'd go for D; I don't read them, but I could see them being useful.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> so, I don't read them, but I like them. :-P
[10:17] <cjwatson> fabbione: not only did I upload it, I told you at the time when I did.
[10:17] <cjwatson> fabbione: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-12-21.html and search for preseed
[10:17] <somerville32> I need a hug.
[10:17] <Fujitsu> Mithrandir, I don't really find them suitable for planet.
[10:17] <cjwatson> fabbione: latest kernel> fine if it's just the usual build/config/ changes. There are no bzr branches yet
[10:18] <fabbione> cjwatson: sorry.. i forgot you did... 
[10:18] <fabbione> cjwatson: it wasn't meant to be a rant.. 
[10:18] <cjwatson> pitti: yeah, will do
[10:18] <cjwatson> fabbione: glibc> noted
[10:19] <fabbione> cjwatson: thanks a lot
[10:22] <somerville32> cjwatson, I fixed the patch for the SRU for mousepad. When might you have time to review it again?
[10:23] <cjwatson> somerville32: I'll do it this morning
[10:23] <somerville32> cjwatson, Thanks :)
[10:23] <cjwatson> somerville32: bug number?
[10:37] <pitti> mpt: I just had a quick talk with seb128 about the new 'Report a bug...' help menu entry in feisty; do you think that makes it 'too easy' for users to report bugs?
[10:37] <pitti> mpt: it currently calls apport in bug mode, which collects the usual data and redirects the user to the /source/+filebug page
[10:37] <pitti> mpt: it's what I understood from the BugReportingTool spec page
[10:43] <Amaranth> eww, apport opened firefox instead of epiphany
[10:43] <Amaranth> or does launchpad-integration do that bit?
[10:44] <seb128> apport
[10:44] <pitti> Amaranth: fundamental problem is that gnome-open doesn't allow you to specify 'open a new window'
[10:44] <seb128> that's a "fix" from pitti
[10:44] <seb128> I told I would send a patch but I didn't do it yet ;)
[10:44] <Amaranth> you could read from gconf ;)
[10:45] <pitti> Amaranth: if anyone gives me the shell rune for remotely open an epiphany window with an url, I'm happy to apply t
[10:48] <mpt> pitti, if Ubuntu is getting more bug reports than you can keep up with, then I think you probably don't want to make it easier
[10:48] <cjwatson> pitti: how does that deal with attachments?
[10:48] <cjwatson> pitti: since AIUI the Malone cloakroom isn't there yet?
[10:49] <pitti> cjwatson: that's why I develop it as a branch so far and didn't upload it yet
[10:49] <pitti> cjwatson: the idea is to get it working at the sprint when we have Bjorn on board
[10:49] <cjwatson> hmm, I thought you said it was in feisty
[10:49] <pitti> cjwatson: yes, the launchpad-integration change is in feisty
[10:49] <cjwatson> ah
[10:49] <lifeless> hmm, what else did we do in december, qa wise.
[10:49] <pitti> cjwatson: in feisty you can already report bugs, but with the usual 'please attach this file' dialog
[10:52] <cjwatson> somerville32: approved, see bug
[10:52] <somerville32> cjwatson: Awesome. Thanks :] 
[10:54] <fabbione> cjwatson: thanks for glibc approval.
[11:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: postgresql 8.2 binaries finally accepted, sorry it took so long
[11:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, thanks!
[12:08] <cjwatson> seb128,pitti: updated bug 59946, approving patches
[12:08] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59946 in gnome-system-tools "Admin tools require admin group membership" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/59946
[12:13] <cjwatson> pitti: could you please reupload tzdata to edgy-proposed using debuild -v2006m-1ubuntu1, for a complete .changes?
[12:13] <cjwatson> pitti: (rejecting so that you can)
[12:18] <pitti> cjwatson: done; sorry
[01:02] <lifeless> gnight
[01:03] <Riddell> ooh, dholbach is back
[01:03] <bhale> wasabi: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=392307
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yay, dholbach!
[01:03] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 392307 in General "Beagle should not store indexes in users home directory" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]  
[01:04] <dholbach> hiya Riddell
[01:04] <dholbach> nightie lifeless
[01:04] <bhale> wasabi: good read for you
[01:04] <Riddell> dholbach: I changed libbtctl and kdebluetooth to compile against the new libopenobex, would be good to check it still works by someone who actually has bluetooth hardware
[01:04] <Hobbsee> hrm.  i've only got one piece of bluetooth hardware, sorry..
[01:05] <dholbach> Riddell: libbtctl works nicely
[01:06] <dholbach> Riddell: i can try kdebluetooth too
[01:07] <dholbach> Riddell: but both libs seem to be still in main, right?
[01:08] <Riddell> dholbach: yes, it can be demoted now that nothing depends on it though
[01:09] <dholbach> alrighty
[01:09] <dholbach> good work!
[01:09] <Riddell> dholbach: and if someone wants to see if everything that uses it in universe compiles against the new one we could get rid of it altogether
[01:09] <dholbach> maybe a task for the ubuntu bluetooth team
[01:10] <doko> Mithrandir (, cjwatson): does the recent bash upload hang somewhere?
[01:13] <mod3d> hi
[01:13] <Mithrandir> doko: 11:17:05 DEBUG   Verifying signature on bash_3.2-0ubuntu2_source.changes
[01:13] <Mithrandir> 11:19:05 DEBUG   UploadError escaped upload.process                                                                                                                                                                   -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5630561/joCPne6QYpIuSjlFRYCitl9jRPI.txt (GPG verification of bash_3.2-0ubuntu2_source.changes failed: No public key)
[01:14] <mod3d> feisty currently very bugy or is it ok for a test installation on a half production system?
[01:15] <crimsun> "feisty" and "production" are a very bad mix currently.
[01:15] <mod3d> ah ok 
[01:15] <Hobbsee> mod3d: please see #ubuntu+1, which is hte channel for development releases.
[01:15] <crimsun> (and will continue to be until approximately the second week in Feb)
[01:16] <mod3d> ok
[01:17] <doko> Mithrandir: thats my usual key, used for the libglade-java upload today as well ...
[01:18] <Mithrandir> doko: let my try to reinject it, then
[01:19] <cypher1_> Keybuk: hi are you there
[01:19] <Hobbsee> cypher1_: probably more helpful if you actually say what you want
[01:20] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: hi.. no it was about the genpower and /usr/include/initreq.h issue
[01:20] <cypher1_> Hobbsee: do you remember it ?
[01:20] <dholbach> Riddell: kdebluetooth doesn't work for me - it'd probably help if somebody with a complete kde environment could have a look
[01:20] <Hobbsee> dholbach: send me a bluetooth phone, then we'll talk :P
[01:21] <StevenK> I have a bluetooth phone, but no bluetooth in my laptop
[01:21] <cypher1_> i was doing merge of genpower.. but genpower depends on sysvinit..
[01:21] <Mithrandir> cypher1_: so it probably needs porting to upstart, then.
[01:21] <cypher1_> StevenK: bluetooth dongle should be cheap
[01:22] <mnepton> Bluetooth, check. Bluetooth phone, check.
[01:22] <Hobbsee> StevenK: quick, drive over :P
[01:22] <StevenK> Which involves having some spare cash.
[01:22] <cypher1_> Mithrandir: that means making source code changes right ?
[01:22] <StevenK> Hobbsee: :-P
[01:22] <cypher1_> StevenK: :)
[01:22] <Riddell> dholbach: ok, thanks, I'll try and find someone who can look at that
[01:22] <Mithrandir> cypher1_: correct.
[01:23] <cypher1_> Mithrandir: if we make the source code changes.. will that still be considered as merge ??
[01:23] <dholbach> Riddell: thanks... if you need anything more of me, let me know.
[01:23] <cypher1_> Mithrandir: i meant the lot of changes that *may* happen
[01:23] <Keybuk> cypher1_: genpower uses the /dev/initctl socket?
[01:23] <cypher1_> Keybuk: sorry have not checked
[01:24] <Mithrandir> cypher1_: you'd probably want to talk to genpower upstream about making it possible to compile with upstart support (and if necessary add the support for what it needs to upstart)
[01:24] <cypher1_> Mithrandir: ok..so if i make changes for making it work with upstart.. will it be acceptable ?
[01:25] <cypher1_> Keybuk: i will check it when i am back at home. hope that is fine :)
[01:27] <Keybuk> cypher1_: to make it work with upstart, you want to use the libupstart library found in the upstart source
[01:27] <Mithrandir> cypher1_: well, it's not a merge per se, but I wouldn't get too hung up about that.
[01:28] <cypher1_> Keybuk: ok thanks :) i will try using it
[01:28] <cypher1_> Mithrandir: ok :)
[01:28] <cypher1_> Is there any way to know the amount of downloads for a package in universe
[01:29] <dholbach> BenC: did you hear about something like http://pastebin.com/854212 before?
[01:29] <StevenK> popcon.u.c can give some vague numbers.
[01:30] <geser> cypher1_: genpower uses /dev/initctl
[01:30] <cypher1_> geser: thanks..
[01:31] <cypher1_> geser: i will check it when i am back @ home
[01:35] <geser> dholbach: hello, as the last uploader of devscripts, can you have a look at the debdiff in bug #76916?
[01:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 76916 in devscripts "Add support for Ubuntu versioning to dch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76916
[01:36] <Fujitsu> That's a very good idea, geser :)
[01:36] <dholbach> geser: did you talk to julian about that?
[01:36] <dholbach> geser: i'm quite sure he'd add it :)
[01:36] <geser> dholbach: not yet
[01:37] <dholbach> geser: i'm about to go out for lunch - i'll take a look at it afterwards
[01:37] <geser> thanks
[01:41] <tepsipakki> how big resolutions can usplash support?
[01:44] <Keybuk> tepsipakki: any supported by svgalib
[01:49] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: it uses VESA driver?
[01:50] <Keybuk> yes
[01:50] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: we have 24" and 30" monitors more and more, so it would be nice to see usplash on them :)
[01:50] <tepsipakki> but maybe usplash just lacks a suitable theme
[01:51] <Keybuk> it probably just lacks the theme
[01:51] <Keybuk> you can do vesa at silly resolutions
[01:51] <tepsipakki> is the artwork-team responsible for those? I can file bugs
[01:52] <tepsipakki> 2560x1600 is pretty silly
[01:52] <Keybuk> yes
[01:57] <pitti> cjwatson: g-s-t uploaded, thanks for review
[02:01] <ogra> ooooh
[02:01] <ogra> -u
[02:03] <pitti> ogra: a working flash lib for amd64 and ppc? *cantbelieveit*
[02:03] <ogra> http://pulseaudio.revolutionlinux.com/PulseAudio
[02:03] <ogra> looks neat ... just building it here
[02:04] <ogra> oh crap ... the package is full of .ex files, no copyright etc etc ... meh
[02:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: gnash's in the repos.
[02:05] <ogra> Description: <insert up to 60 chars description>
[02:05] <ogra> grr
[02:05] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: where? feisty? or only Debian?
[02:05] <Mithrandir> Filename: pool/universe/g/gnash/gnash_0.7.2-1_amd64.deb
[02:05] <Mithrandir> in feisty at least.
[02:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, is it any better than libflash-mozplugin?
[02:06] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: ok.. I'm still on edgy here.. I'll wait a bit longer ;)
[02:06] <Treenaks> (say, a month)
[02:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: no idea, I don't like flash.
[02:06] <pitti> me neither, but some sites just need it :(
[02:06] <Mithrandir> none I've come across so far.
[02:06] <Mithrandir> as in, none I care about.
[02:06] <ogra> lucky you
[02:07] <ogra> my users play children games online ....
[02:07] <Treenaks> ogra: so make them grow up ;)
[02:07] <Treenaks> wait..
[02:07] <Mithrandir> I don't admin any desktops but the ones I use myself.
[02:07] <ogra> haha
[02:08] <ogra> Mithrandir, me neither, but i still get the bug reports and complaints if it doesnt work
[02:08] <pitti> gnash is as crappy and non-working as libflash-plugin
[02:09] <Treenaks> pitti: it works some of the time..
[02:09] <Treenaks> pitti: which is better than not at all
[02:09] <pitti> except that it crashed ffox after ten seconds
[02:09] <Treenaks> ok, that's bad
[02:10] <ogra> pitti, if you could prioritize mbr on your MIR todo list that would make the CD builds very happy :)
[02:10] <pitti> ogra: ok, I'll have a review session today or tomorrow
[02:10] <ogra> cool
[02:11] <pitti> please ping me again tomorrow morning if I forget today
[02:11] <ogra> its breaking lilo ... not a major thing, but important to fix before the herd
[02:17] <ogra> BenC, kylem, didnt you release a fix for bug 62308 ?
[02:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62308 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Permission Denied on nfs clients for only some files" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62308
[02:17] <ogra> (seems weird that people start using third party kernels to fix it)
[02:33] <Hobbsee|NotHere> keescook: sydney is fun :)
[02:36] <Hobbsee> lucas: B.  definetly B.  or perhaps D.
[02:37] <Hobbsee> lucas: but then, waht's the target audience for planet anyway?  devs or users, or both?
[02:37] <Hobbsee> seems like hsi posts belong more in forums than anything
[02:43] <gnomefreak> is there a place i can search for packages in debian new?
[02:44] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: 
[02:44] <cjwatson> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[02:44] <gnomefreak> ty
[02:54] <fabbione> cjwatson: if you have a minute could we look at one bit of sparc64-installer together?
[02:54] <Riddell> mvo: the dist-upgrade tool doesn't seem to run the gtk mainloop
[02:56] <mvo> Riddell: oh? I will check that. are you working on the qt version of it?
[02:56] <Riddell> mvo: yes
[02:57] <Riddell> mvo: I mean it works, I just can't see any call to gtk.main()
[02:57] <Riddell> there's a few gtk.main_iteration()
[03:00] <cjwatson> fabbione: yes
[03:01] <fabbione> cjwatson: network-console on CD is the last bit of that spec to go implemented (modulo the evaluation phase). is there anything i need to do to get it on server CD?
[03:02] <fabbione> i am a bit afraid of breaking the seed magic when touching that stuf
[03:02] <fabbione> +f
[03:03] <cjwatson> fabbione: that's already done; it's in the installer seed, which is all you need
[03:03] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok perfect. thanks
[03:05] <mvo> Riddell: a gtk mainloop is run implicitely if a dialog is run (for example when information() or error() is called)
[03:05] <Riddell> mvo: aah, ok
[03:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: can you update the script making language-support packages?  It still refers to ubuntulinux.org and has Copyright (C) 2004 Canonical Ltd.
[03:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, sure
[03:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: however, I assume you don't want me to upload new versions for all of them just for that? 
[03:07] <cjwatson> cjwatson@lithium:~$ isoinfo -lR -i ~/cdimage/www/full/ubuntu-server/daily/current/feisty-server-sparc.iso | grep network-console.\*deb
[03:07] <cjwatson> -r--r--r--   2    0    0           54796 Nov 23 2006 [  41599 00]   network-console_1.9_sparc.udeb
[03:07] <cjwatson> fabbione: ^--
[03:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: nah, no need for a new upload.  Just noticed when I looked at the source package.
[03:08] <fabbione> cjwatson: cool.. i did trust your word from the seeds :)
[03:08] <pitti> yup, this affects the language-pack*, too
[03:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: what's wrong with the copyright? should it rather be '2004, 2005, 2006, 2007'?
[03:09] <Mithrandir> pitti: or 2004-2007, since the package is from 2007
[03:10] <pitti> ok, WFM
[03:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: committed; thanks for noticing
[03:10] <Mithrandir> my pleasure
[03:12] <iwj> mvo: Thanks for that url for the resulting menu data, btw.  Just what I needed right now, in fact.
[03:12] <_ion>  would be a more correct dash than -, i think.
[03:12] <mvo> iwj: cheers, glad to hear that
[03:23] <ogra> hmm, what do i set as upstream author for sourcecode thats not GPL and has its copyright assigned to a company and no trace of an upstream author anywhere ? do i set the company name as upstream author ? or do i just leave it out ?
[03:24] <Mithrandir> there's nothing stopping a company from being the copyright holder.
[03:24] <cjwatson> (companies are legal entities)
[03:25] <ogra> right, but what do i do with the author field in the debian/copright file ? 
[03:25] <ogra> just ignore it ?
[03:25] <cjwatson> it's just informational. Set it to the company, probably.
[03:25] <ogra> ok
[03:26] <ogra> to sad ... freely available source but adobe license so its forced to multiverse :(
[03:38] <jdub> http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/08/embracing-the-inevitable/ <-- woot.
[03:39] <Mithrandir> jdub: nice.
[03:39] <seb128> for what?
[03:40] <Treenaks> seb128: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/08/embracing-the-inevitable/
[03:40] <Treenaks> seb128: 2ndlife :)
[03:40] <seb128> ah, k
[03:49] <Mithrandir> doko,pitti: is db4.5 targetted for main or should I put it in universe for now?
[03:50] <Mithrandir> source is universe, so it's universe then
[03:51] <lucas> Hobbsee: I've mailed him privately, suggesting that he creates another planet targetted at tutorials, and that he posts weekly summaries on p.u.c
[03:51] <Hobbsee> lucas: smart
[03:52] <Hobbsee> lucas: tutorial planet and developer planet, type idea?
[03:52] <lucas> well, we will see what he answers :-)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:53] <Hobbsee> oh yes, which reminds me....i planned to get added to planet...
[03:54] <Mithrandir> .. 19 NEW source packages.  I guess I won't get many more of those done today.
[03:54] <zul> cool...big pointy stick block?
[03:54] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:54] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:56] <doko> Mithrandir: universe seems to be ok
[04:10] <bddebian> Heya
[04:30] <iwj> Strange.  My Mum's new laptop has a weird failure: after working with an SD card (builtin cardreader) and saying `unmount' and ejecting, the card doesn't work if reinserted.  Jan  8 14:46:55 friesland kernel: [17179790.484000]  generic_make_request: Trying to access nonexistent block-device mmcblk0 (248192)
[04:42] <seb128> Mithrandir: what did I do? ;)
[04:42] <Mithrandir> uploaded tracker.
[04:42] <Mithrandir> like, five minutes ago
[04:42] <seb128> ah right
[04:42] <seb128> it's up to you to get it out of NEW now ;)
[04:42] <Mithrandir> working on it.
[04:42] <seb128> excellent
[04:50] <ogra> hmm, intresting ... if i enable universe in my pbuilder it immediately installs console-common ... i wonder why 
[04:53] <tepsipakki> does the recent d-bus security-update really need a reboot to get it in use?
[04:54] <iwj> SD card problem> Hmm, it seems that this is already known as bug 53268.
[04:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53268 in linux-source-2.6.15 "On Thinkpad X60s and Z60 SD card reader doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/53268
[04:55] <pitti> tepsipakki: it is actually enough to /etc/init.d/dbus restart and restart your session
[04:56] <tepsipakki> pitti: thanks a bunch.. I don't want to reboot 200+ machines just for that :)
[04:56] <tepsipakki> pitti: it doesn't harm running sessions much?
[04:56] <pitti> tepsipakki: it does, you'll break their gnome-vfs-daemons and in turn the volumes they display
[04:57] <pitti> and probably two tons of other things that connect to dbus or hal
[04:57] <tepsipakki> ok, well, that I can live with
[04:57] <elmo> if you use n-m, that can also break
[04:58] <elmo> I wish someone would beat some sense into d-bus upstream - requiring this kind of restart and/or reboot is utterly insane
[04:58] <tepsipakki> these are desktops, so no n-m thank god
[04:58] <_ion> elmo: Indeed.
[04:58] <Keybuk> elmo: I've tried before, I was told it's not easy to transfer state of open file descriptors, etc.
[04:58] <Keybuk> I pointed them at the fact init is perfectly able to be restarted, but to no avail
[04:58] <_ion> Irssi also does that. :-)
[04:59] <tepsipakki> _ion: well, _static_ desktops :)
[04:59] <_ion> /upgrade execs a new irssi, while keeping network connections open.
[04:59] <cjwatson> and unfortunately losing scrollback
[04:59] <Mithrandir> seb128: tracker rejected, but it should be relativetly easy to fix my points.
[04:59] <_ion> cjwatson: There's a script for that.
[04:59] <cjwatson> _ion: ooh. I wonder if it would work for a sarge->etch upgrade
[05:00] <cjwatson> which is the next upgrade this irssi here will undergo
[05:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: what are the points?
[05:00] <_ion> cjwatson: /usr/share/irssi/scripts/buf.pl in the irssi package
[05:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: wrong debian/copyright ; missing full text of the LGPL in the orig.tar.gz.
[05:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: I just sent you an email about it.
[05:01] <_ion> Tracker, as in Meta Tracker? Yay
[05:01] <cjwatson> _ion: thanks
[05:01] <Mithrandir> _ion: tracker as in beagle, but without the memory usage, yes.
[05:03] <jdub> or the, you know, searching.
[05:03] <_ion> ...and with a generic metadata database that apps can use to create a more integrated environment.
[05:04] <Mithrandir> jdub: pft!  Who needs that?
[05:04] <zyga> mvo_: ping
[05:05] <_ion> There should be a generic "tag" widget just like the one in f-spot. Apps could then have shared tags for files.
[05:06] <_ion> Using tracker as the database, of course.
[05:06] <jdub> there should be a generic "amihotornot" widget. you could apply it to everything in the interface. using tracker as the database.
[05:06] <_ion> That, too.
[05:07] <Mithrandir> jdub: I think most of my files would be tagged cold, then. :-P
[05:07] <jdub> gtk+ not using X dpi -> NOT!
[05:07] <jdub> calendar on gnome panel clock -> HOT!
[05:08] <_ion> It's not gtk's fault. Gnome-settings-daemon breaks it.
[05:09] <jdub> it's mildly more complicated than that, but still unfortunate
[05:09] <jdub> but it was more interesting than "crash report -> NOT!"
[05:13] <heno> sfllaw: did you have a look at improving the ISO testing documentation? I've written some here: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=331123 but I'm sure it could be improved
[05:25] <mvo_> hey zyga! 
[05:25] <mvo_> zyga: happy new year to you :)
[05:30] <iwj> mvo_: There's no problem with me making getMenuData read and edit existing menu-data/*.desktop files as well as merely sometimes overwriting them, is there ?
[05:31] <mvo_> iwj: there shouldn't be, that is what addPopconData.py is doing 
[05:32] <iwj> Oh, yes, so it is.
[05:32] <mvo_> why would you overwrite them?
[05:32] <iwj> My thing wants to be in getMenuData because getMenuData is already churning through all the .debs.
[05:33] <mvo_> right. it should be fine to just mangle the extracted desktop file
[05:33] <mvo_> in fact, add popcon data could/should probably be part of that run too
[05:33] <iwj> getMenuData is written to overwrite any of the existing entries in menu-data which disagree with the package's data.
[05:34] <mvo_> oh, I now see what you mean. what would be the reason to read/edit instead of overwriting? fix wrong mime types in the desktop file in the archive?
[05:34] <iwj> Well, in my case I want to add a field even to existing desktop files.
[05:35] <iwj> So I merge the field value (which I get from the .deb) with the rest of the desktop file from menu-data.
[05:36] <persia> Mithrandir: geser suggests I should ask you to give-back rapidsvn.  It built locally for me, although all the buildds failed last month due to an insufficient version of libsvn (which has since been fixed).
[05:36] <sfllaw> heno: Thanks.  I have.
[05:38] <mvo_> iwj: the getMenuData code adds some field (X-AppInstall-Package for example) already after the extraction. why would you need to read the old desktop file first before writing the new one? the only reason I can think of is to correct incorrect data in the desktop file of the package
[05:38] <mvo_> or am I missing something?
[05:39] <iwj> The gnome-app-install source contains a directory menu-data with a bunch of desktop files for packages which don't have their own, right ?
[05:39] <iwj> So those desktop files I have to read (to find which package they belong to) and perhaps edit.
[05:40] <mvo_> iwj: the ones that do not have a desktop file in the package are in menu-data-additional/
[05:40] <iwj> And given that, it's easier to just edit all of the desktop files in menu-data near the end rather than treat differently the ones getMenuData generated.
[05:40] <iwj> mvo_: Err, right.
[05:40] <heno> sfllaw: cool! Are you ready for a flood of ISO testers from the forums? :)
[05:40] <mvo_> iwj: menu-data are all from the archive (also some overwrites are applied there)
[05:40] <Mithrandir> persia: given-back.
[05:41] <heno> sfllaw: you should probably register an account there, btw
[05:41] <iwj> Oh, I see.  You mean that I only have to read the ones in menu-data-additional since the others are autogenerated.
[05:41] <mvo_> iwj: oh, so you where talking about menu-data-additional all the time :) ? let me re-read the disussion then 
[05:41] <mvo_> iwj: yes
[05:41] <iwj> I thought that the distinction between menu-data and -additional was something to do with main/universe.  Evidently I was wrong :-).
[05:41] <persia> Mithrandir: Thanks.
[05:42] <mvo_> iwj: sorry for that misunderstanding, I will put it in the README file 
[05:42] <sfllaw> heno: Will do.
[05:42] <iwj> So err, I can fix up the menu-data ones fine but I need to edit menu-data-additional too as I say.
[05:42] <iwj> So getMenuData doesn't currently know anything about the menu-data-additional directory.
[05:43] <mvo_> iwj: yes, the m-d-additional dir is maintained manually (by-hand) because it is rather small. 
[05:43] <iwj> Right.  But I do want to add this extra field automatically.  May I do that ?
[05:44] <iwj> I suppose I mean: is it OK if I make   getMenuData menu-data   edit stuff in menu-data-additional too, or is that too horrid ?  Otherwise the cron job has to change.
[05:45] <mvo_> iwj: that should be fine as long as it edits only the parts that it is concerned with (X-AppInstall-Codec)
[05:45] <iwj> Right.
[05:57] <iwj> cdbs -= SHORT_MAX
[05:58] <zyga> mvo_: hey, thanks :-)
[05:58] <zyga> mvo_: I had some minor patches to command-not-found and I was wondering if you could merge them to feisty?
[06:00] <mvo_> zyga: certainly. I uploaded a new version recently, if your patches were in your bzr tree at friday, it is already in feisty 
[06:00] <zyga> mvo_: yeah they were :-)
[06:00] <zyga> mvo_: cool, thanks :-)
[06:00] <zyga> mvo_: I registered the branch at lauchpad, if you used the same branch then everything is okay
[06:00] <mvo_> zyga: I think the version in feisty is now pretty complete and really rocks 
[06:01] <mvo_> zyga: I used the one in lp, but I will double check just to be sure
[06:01] <zyga> mvo_: it still has one fixable (easy) bug that I plan to work on but not for feisty probably
[06:01] <mvo_> zyga: you may want to merge from my branch as well to get the latest changes
[06:01] <mvo_> zyga: which one is that?
[06:01] <zyga> it does not cover cross package symlinks as it used to
[06:01] <zyga> I recently noticed that many packages actually used those :P
[06:02] <zyga> mvo_: I'll merge as soon as I'm at home
[06:02] <mvo_> right. I always thought those are s a corner case :)
[06:02] <zyga> mvo_: cross package symlinks add proper packages for gcc for example 
[06:04] <mvo_> I see
[06:40] <iwj> python--
[06:40] <iwj> ';'.join([x where x in codeclist] 
[06:40] <iwj> )
[06:40] <iwj> I mean, really.
[06:41] <Keybuk> hmm?
[06:41] <Keybuk> s/where/for/ surely?
[06:42] <Keybuk> and you can omit the [ ] s, and make it a generator expression
[06:42] <Keybuk> and x for x in makes no sense unless you also have if :p
[06:42] <iwj> Sorry, yes.
[06:42] <Keybuk> ':'.join(codeclist)
[06:43] <iwj> Oh, that does work.  I mistyped it when I tried it earlier.
[06:43] <iwj> iwj--; python++
[06:43] <Keybuk> [x for x in ...]  can be used to "turn something into a list"
[06:43] <Keybuk> but for that list(...) makes it far more obvious :p
[06:44] <Keybuk> that's only useful where you have an odd function that expects a real list, not an iterable
[06:45] <iwj> Keybuk: Right, but I mistook an earlier error message for complaint from join that it wasn't getting a real list.
[06:45] <_ion> I wish someone invented a programming language with all the cool stuff from Lisp, without the syntax looking like a data structure. It's probably not possible, tough. :-(
[06:45] <iwj> Actually it was just a bug in my test case.
[06:45] <iwj> _ion: Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me - Lisp's biggest feature is that its code can be data for manipulation by Lisp.
[06:46] <_ion> Hence the second sentence.
[06:46] <_ion> s/tough/though/
[07:05] <pitti> ogra: mbr approved for main
[07:05] <ogra> pitti, thanks !
[07:07] <iwj> X-AppInstall-Codecs=0.10:decoder-audio/x-sid;0.10:element-mpegdemux;...
[07:07] <iwj> Yay!
[07:09] <pitti> iwj: first time it works? congrats!
[07:10] <pitti> getting this to work will be rad
[07:10] <twb> Mithrandir: nag, nag
[07:12] <iwj> Well, that bit of it is what I've been doing today.  There are gaps in the chain of stuff still.
[07:14] <pitti> iwj: so the codec packages have a new debhelper bit that register their shipped codecs somewhere and this list ist then put into some gstreamer lib?
[07:18] <iwj> Yes, they have to call dh_gstscancodecs which is in gst-tools.
[07:18] <iwj> Err, gstreamer-tools.
[07:18] <iwj> That leaves a dropping in /usr/share, which getMenuData.py picks up and puts into the .desktop files in menu-data* and now I have to edit setup.py to build a gdbm like for the mime map.
[07:21] <iwj> But I have to rush off for dinner now.  Goodnight all :-).
[07:22] <pitti> iwj: bye Ian
[07:54] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: do you think we could move each of Herd 4 and Herd 5 one week later? at the moment they collide with seb128/dholbach upload-fests of new GNOME releases
[07:54] <cjwatson> the other dates seem fine
[07:56] <dholbach> if freeze set in on 11th or 12th, I think we should be fine
[07:56] <dholbach> "herd2 freeze"
[07:57] <Mithrandir> yeah, I guess we could.  I talked with seb128 about it and he seemed fine with them working madly on monday to make it in and freeze on tuesday, but if you prefer to move it, that's ok with me
[07:57] <cjwatson> dholbach: like I say, Herds 2 and 3 seem fine as they are ...
[07:58] <cjwatson> or maybe you mean 11th February for Herd 4
[07:58] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: if seb is happy and the freeze is short, that's OK - just wanted to make sure it had been taken into consideration
[07:58] <cjwatson> since there have been problems in the past
[07:58] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I've linked to the GNOME release schedule from ours
[07:59] <dholbach> oh ok
[08:00] <mdke> dholbach: hi!
[08:00] <dholbach> hiya mdke!
[08:00] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: the idea was "see how it goes" and adjust if it blows up, basically.
[08:01] <mdke> dholbach: can you do an ubuntu-docs upload for feisty (freezes permitting, not sure what's happening atm)? I sent you a mail during the vacation
[08:01] <dholbach> mdke: i thought i responded to that, no?
[08:01] <dholbach> mdke: i will do an upload now, no problem
[08:02] <mdke> dholbach: I didn't get it :( Was there a problem with it?
[08:02] <dholbach> mdke: I'll have another look and see what happened
[08:02] <mdke> thanks dude. Tomorrow is fine if you are finishing up
[08:03] <dholbach> mdke: no problem - i scripted a part of it and have another build running anyway
[08:04] <mdke> dholbach: scripted something for ubuntu-docs?
[08:05] <dholbach> mdke: check sources out, delete unnecessary parts, download the old package for comparison, stuff like that
[08:05] <mdke> dholbach: oh, brilliant
[08:05] <LaserJock> mdke: yet another "big brain" kinda guy ;-)
[08:06] <mdke> Canonical is full of em
[08:06] <dholbach> mdke: i changed the version number to 7.01.1, ok?
[08:06] <dholbach> mdke: only change i did
[08:06] <mdke> dholbach: sure ting
[08:06] <dholbach> rock
[08:09] <cjwatson> automation> habits of the busy ... at some point you just can't do it all by hand any more
[08:13] <dholbach> mdke: it FTBFS - i'll have a look at it tomorrow - is that ok with you?
[08:13] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok, let's please remember to squeeze in a review of how it went between Herds 4 and 5 in order to avoid making the same mistake twice in a row
[08:13] <mdke> dholbach: sure... I'll have a look myself too
[08:14] <cjwatson> there's some slack in the schedule there
[08:15] <dholbach> mdke: cp: canno stat ubuntu/menus/C/*.xml': No such file or directory   - probably easy to fix
[08:15] <mdke> dholbach: oh, absurdly, yes. I'll have it done this evening for you tomorrow
[08:15] <mdke> sorry about that, some changes since I mailed you
[08:16] <dholbach> no problem
[08:17] <dholbach> thanks a lot - to you too! :)
[08:21] <Lure> Mithrandir: when do you plan to freeze for Herd 2
[08:21] <Mithrandir> Lure: tomorrow.
[08:22] <Lure> Mithrandir: thanks, will work then tonight to get new kde powermanager in ;-)
[08:24] <dholbach> Mithrandir: it'll depend on when you're going to freeze if we get 2.17.5 in or not - there are still some tarballs on the list
[08:25] <Mithrandir> dholbach: any idea when you'll get to them?  Tonight or tomorrow?
[08:25] <dholbach> i'm about to finish for today
[08:25] <dholbach> seb128 too
[08:26] <dholbach> and I don't know how many tarballs are still being rolled
[08:31] <dholbach> good night everybody
[08:32] <mdke> night
[08:36] <seb128> Mithrandir: when do you want to freeze?
[08:36] <seb128> Mithrandir: GNOME 2.17.5 will be packaged by tomorrow end of the afternoon, not today, they have not rolled all the tarball yet
[08:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, so if we freeze everything but gnome tomorrow mid-day (UTC), that should work.
[08:38] <seb128> that should be fine, yep
[08:39] <seb128> most of GNOME should be done by midday too
[08:39] <Mithrandir> cheers.
[08:46] <twb> Mithrandir: nag, nag
[08:47] <Mithrandir> twb: can you nag me in the morning instead, like in 12 hours? :-P
[08:47] <Adri2000> seb128: (I think you are the right person to ask) fam dependencies should be replaced with gamin, right? perhaps gamin | fam is better?
[08:47] <twb> I can surely try
[08:48] <seb128> Adri2000: what package is that for?
[08:48] <seb128> Adri2000: a | looks about right, though an app should not have to Depends on the daemon
[08:48] <Adri2000> doodle (universe), bug 78497
[08:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78497 in doodle "doodled package can't be removed" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78497
[08:49] <seb128> Adri2000: well, if the app links with libfam it has to Depends on it
[08:50] <Adri2000> the binary package doodle depends on libfam-dev and the binary package doodled depends on fam
[08:50] <seb128> whatever links with libfam should Depends on it
[08:52] <Adri2000> when I try to install fam, it wants to remove a bunch of packages
[08:52] <Adri2000> gamin Conflicts: fam
[08:53] <seb128> you should build with libgamin rather than libfam
[08:54] <Adri2000> ok
[08:57] <Adri2000> (in fact, the source package build depends on libfam-dev, a binary package doesn't depend on a -dev usually :)
[09:07] <cjwatson> build-depend on libgamin-dev then
[09:07] <cjwatson> if you do that then libgamin0.shlibs will produce a libgamin0 | libfam0 shlibdep for any object needing libfam
[09:08] <cjwatson> (as opposed to the libfam0 shlibdep you get by build-depending on libfam-dev -> libfam0)
[09:20] <Adri2000> :%s/fam/gamin/ in debian/control seems to fix the bug indeed :)
[09:41] <mdke> heno: hi! around for a chat?
[09:43] <heno> mdke: sure
[09:44] <martii> ho folks noone was able to help me on #ubuntu
[09:44] <martii> I do net install
[09:44] <martii> how can I force proxy? for installation?
[09:44] <martii> as I was not asked about proxy during installation
[09:45] <lifeless> Mithrandir: got a second ?
[09:45] <Mithrandir> lifeless: sure
[09:45] <lifeless> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDShareThisCD <- has anything been done on this ?
[09:45] <cjwatson> martii: putting mirror/http/proxy=http://foo.bar:8080/ on the kernel command line at boot time should do it
[09:46] <lifeless> Mithrandir: Looking to get livecd netbooks working for LCA, dont care about booting of the CD to share it, just about the clients booting live and then installing locally
[09:46] <martii> do i need all of those or just one?
[09:46] <cjwatson> martii: or use expert mode
[09:46] <martii> I mean mirror http
[09:46] <cjwatson> martii: all of what?
[09:46] <Mithrandir> lifeless: no, not really.  There are some patches in the Debian casper package to make it easier, but I haven't merged them yet.  Hoping to do so tomorrow.
[09:46] <cjwatson> that's a single argument
[09:46] <martii> in expert mode it asks me too much questions
[09:46] <martii> ok thanks
[09:46] <lifeless> Mithrandir: and for some reason your name came up w.r.t. to it
[09:46] <cjwatson> martii: mirror/http/proxy=URL_OF_YOUR_PROXY
[09:46] <bddebian> Folks is there somewhere in the Debian policy about requiring manpages??
[09:46] <martii> just checking it now
[09:47] <mjg59> bddebian: Yes
[09:47] <cjwatson> martii: please pass that on to #ubuntu so that they know next time
[09:47] <martii> ok
[09:47] <cjwatson> bddebian: section 1.2
[09:47] <lifeless> Mithrandir: what do they do, do I need to roll a custom casper right now to consider this ? (the clients will want to be running and installing edgy)
[09:47] <cjwatson> bddebian: er, section 12.1
[09:47] <lifeless> Mithrandir: I'll be doing the work to make this happen, so I'm just gathering intelligence right this second :)
[09:48] <martii> cjwatson: doesn't work
[09:48] <bddebian> Thanks mjg59, cjwatson
[09:49] <martii> cjwatson: I gave it IP:port
[09:49] <martii> and I got info about bad archive mirror
[09:49] <Mithrandir> lifeless: you need to change the script scripts/casper in the casper package to mount the root fs (probably based on some kernel param you get from /proc/cmdline) and then unionfs mount a tmpfs on top.
[09:49] <Mithrandir> lifeless: so yeah, you need to make a custom initrd.
[09:50] <lifeless> ah, its doesn't use initramfs ?
[09:50] <Mithrandir> it does.
[09:50] <Mithrandir> casper is just a custom initramfs.
[09:51] <lifeless> ok
[09:51] <lifeless> np
[09:51] <Mithrandir> if you don't pass boot=casper to a casper initramfs, it'll behave just like a normal initramfs (but is a little bit bigger)
[09:52] <lifeless> so, add boot=casper to the tftplinux configuration, and have the script scripts/casper altered to know the nfs path to the root fs.
[09:52] <Mithrandir> yeah.
[09:53] <Mithrandir> and hope unionfs and nfsroot doesn't blow up too badly.
[09:53] <lifeless> yah
[09:53] <lifeless> I'm going to do a few test installs today I hope, see if its fucked or not.
[09:53] <bddebian> cjwatson: Though I have an upstream author that refuses to do a manpage because it has a gnome help page in docbook.  What do I do about that?
[09:53] <lifeless> if its totally fucked, I'm wondering about having root use the iso image over NBD
[09:53] <bddebian> And docbook-to-man pukes :-(
[09:53] <lifeless> as a way to work around the unionfs issues
[09:53] <mdke> bddebian: that's no reasoning at all!
[09:54] <Mithrandir> lifeless: yeah, that should work too.
[09:54] <lifeless> ok cool, I was wondering if I was on crack there or not.
[09:54] <Mithrandir> lifeless: you get the additional joy of doing dhcp &c in the initramfs too, but I presume you know that.
[09:54] <bddebian> mdke: Well his thinking is that it's a Gnome only app so why a man page?
[09:54] <Mithrandir> including having loads of network drivers there.
[09:55] <lifeless> Mithrandir: bringing up dhcp is done via ip=dhcp to the kernel? or does the casper initramfs know enough ?
[09:55] <mdke> bddebian: you could recommend to him that it would help his app get used in non-Gnome installations.
[09:55] <martii> cjwatson: works :( sorry I must have mispelled something
[09:55] <martii> cheers
[09:55] <lifeless> Mithrandir: yes, I knew that that would be an issue
[09:55] <Mithrandir> lifeless: kernel doesn't do dhcp for you when you're using initramfs, AIUI?
[09:55] <Mithrandir> so the casper script must do that.
[09:56] <lifeless> Mithrandir: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/OnNFSDrive has been updated for dapper and reckons that you can have the kernel do it with stock dapper initramfs
[09:56] <bddebian> mdke: Well it's a gui app regardless so I'm not sure I'll win that arguement :-(
[09:56] <mdke> bddebian: fair enough. That's a much better argument
[09:57] <lifeless> Mithrandir: that said we have udev to get network cards, probably just need to add dhcpclient to the initramfs
[09:57] <Mithrandir> lifeless: it's probably a matter of copying and pasting stuff from the nfsroot script, yes.
[09:57] <lifeless> yay copy n paste
[09:58] <Mithrandir> if it's a one-off, there's no real point in refactoring to extract common bits and such.
[09:58] <lifeless> Mithrandir: well, no point in wasted effort either.
[09:58] <bddebian> mdke: So what do I do about it, anything?  Add a lintian override?
[09:58] <lifeless> s/wasted/duplicated/
[09:58] <mdke> bddebian: fraid I have no clue about Debian policy
[09:59] <bddebian> Me either :-)
[09:59] <bddebian> Well I have a "clue" but certainly don't know it all :-)
[10:00] <bddebian> cjwatson: You have any thoughts sir?
[10:10] <cjwatson> bddebian: do not add lintian overrides unless it's a case where lintian is generally right but this is an unusual exception. This is not such a case.
[10:11] <cjwatson> bddebian: if you can't write a man page for it, then just leave the lintian warning there so that somebody else is more likely to notice and write a man page in future. Don't ever hide real problems under lintian overrides.
[10:11] <cjwatson> bddebian: but ideally, write a man page; it's not hard
[10:12] <bddebian> I know it's not hard but it seems superfluous.. But hey, what do I know :-)
[10:12] <lifeless> bddebian: why would it be superfluous?
[10:12] <cjwatson> it's not superfluous if you're in the habit of typing "man thing" to find out how thing can be invoked
[10:12] <cjwatson> (many GUI applications can usefully be invoked from the command line)
[10:12] <mdke> bddebian: suggestion for the contents: "See the manual in yelp"
[10:13] <cjwatson> bddebian: if upstream disagrees, fair enough, but it would hardly be the first time that a distribution has written a man page when upstream didn't want to bother
[10:13] <cjwatson> mdke: it's usually possible to write something more useful than that with minimal effort
[10:13] <mdke> cjwatson: I didn't mean "entire contents"
[10:13] <cjwatson> ohhh, sure
[10:13] <cjwatson> s/ohhh/oh/
[10:14] <cjwatson> bddebian: you don't have to argue it with upstream if it is hopeless; you can just shove it in the debian/ directory
[10:14] <bddebian> cjwatson: I know, I know, I have written several.  It just torks me :-)
[10:15] <cjwatson> deal :-)
[10:15] <mdke> cjwatson: thanks for your SRU review today, btw.
[10:16] <cjwatson> np
[10:44] <laurelin> why
[10:44] <mdke> laurelin: can you be more specific?
[10:45] <_ion> laurelin: mu
[10:45] <laurelin> muh says a cow
[10:50] <laurelin> why
[10:50] <laurelin> why
[10:51] <mdke> laurelin: enough now, for queries on existence you can use #ubuntu-offtopic
[10:51] <laurelin> poor mdke