[12:18] <mpt> And putting clauses on separate lines means future rewordings will have easier-to-read diffs.
[12:18] <mdke> yes, it's particularly helpful for that
[12:23] <mdke> oh crap
[12:23] <LaserJock> hmm, that doesn't sound good
[12:54] <bdmurray> w/in 4
[12:54] <nixternal> no
[12:54] <nixternal> within for, or /window 4 :)
[12:58] <bdmurray> gah, nobody was supposed to notice
[12:58] <mdke> :)
[01:04] <mdke> mpt: I've uploaded some changes to newtoubuntu.xml, hopefully it looks (somewhat) sane now. I've added proper links to the gnome upstream documents so you can see where they go; I've made "Customise your computer" and "Keep your computer safe" topics and moved some things into it. Comments show the serious issues remaining :)
[01:06] <mdke> LaserJock: ubuntu-docs has a Recommends: yelp, if we move that to Depends, should the "Recommends:" line remain, but blank, or should I remove it entirely?
[01:13] <LaserJock> remove it
[01:13] <mdke> LaserJock: thanks
[01:14] <mdke> LaserJock: your views on the policy? yelp is the only viewer that can read our docs
[01:17] <LaserJock> I don't think it hurts
[01:17] <mdke> LaserJock: btw how can I get it so that debuild uses my secret key? I always get errors when building because of that.
[01:17] <LaserJock> technically you could convert the xml to HTML and view it that way
[01:17] <LaserJock> mdke: add DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL to ~/.bashrc
[01:18] <LaserJock> and make sure they are the same as what it's in your gpg key and changelog entries
[01:18] <mpt> mdke, awesome, I'll have another look tomorrow
[01:18] <mpt> Tonight I'll concentrate on Mallard
[01:20] <LaserJock> mdke: what about the server guide though, WRT yelp?
[01:22] <mdke> mpt: sure.
[01:22] <mdke> LaserJock: what do you mean?
[01:23] <LaserJock> mdke: bah, I guess TBH messes that all up anyway :/
[01:23] <LaserJock> I was just thinking if somebody wants to read the Server Guide on their server they don't want to have to get yelp
[01:23] <mdke> LaserJock: we're planning a server topic in Yelp.
[01:23] <mdke> LaserJock: we only ship xml, how would they read it?
[01:24] <mdke> I discussed with bhuvan the possibility of shipping a separate serverguide, as a standalone document
[01:24] <LaserJock> well, we *had* talked about converting to HTML or info pages
[01:24] <mdke> we can do that
[01:25] <LaserJock> I think it could be online even (servers should have internet access for the most part)
[01:25] <LaserJock> anyway, TBH kinda blows away the server guide argument for keeping yelp Recommends:
[01:28] <dsas> Why would anyone access online docs using a server when they're probably accessing the server via ssh and a desktop?
[01:28] <nixternal> LaserJock: or debuild -S -sa -k<keynum>
[01:29] <LaserJock> nixternal: but that's horrible to have to do every time :-)
[01:29] <nixternal> or in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf add your key as default :)
[01:29] <nixternal> not if you script it like i do :)
[01:29] <nixternal> nixbuild *.dsc
[01:29] <LaserJock> nixternal: well, I don't have any problems with it so ...
[01:29] <nixternal> err
[01:29] <nixternal> that is my pbuildone
[01:29] <nixternal> argh
[01:29] <LaserJock> dsas: I suppose
[01:30] <nixternal> LaserJock: i don't anymore either :)
[01:30] <nixternal> server docs should be in info or man page layout imho
[01:30] <LaserJock> dsas: I suppose server setup might be done at the machine
[01:30] <mdke> nixternal: oh, i wonder if my key isn't default
[01:30] <LaserJock> nixternal: well, dsas's argument is a good one
[01:31] <nixternal> wouldn't they use the desktop to access the online docs?
[01:31] <LaserJock> yeah, that's the point
[01:31] <LaserJock> so why have man or info docs
[01:31] <nixternal> ahhh
[01:32] <mdke> if we ship a standalone serverguide, we can ship it in man and HTML
[01:32] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:32] <LaserJock> that makes sense
[01:32] <nixternal> well, you would have them LaserJock if you were setting up a server in a remote close away from such "*net" access
[01:32] <LaserJock> maybe s/man/info/
[01:32] <LaserJock> nixternal: but I wonder if the serverguide will be much good to you then
[01:32] <nixternal> mdke: if we do it in html then we would have to have an cli html client installed by default, which I don't know if there is one by default
[01:32] <nixternal> LaserJock: it wouldn't :)
[01:32] <mdke> eh?
[01:33] <nixternal> especially if you didn't knwo it was there
[01:33] <mdke> isn't there a cli html client installed in the default server install? That would be rubbish if there isn;t
[01:33] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure w3m or lynx is
[01:33] <nixternal> mdke: i always install lynx after i setup a server
[01:33] <nixternal> lynx isn't
[01:33] <LaserJock> hmm
[01:33] <mdke> or alternatively, if the standalone serverguide wasn't installed by default, it would depend on a browser, that's no issue
[01:34] <nixternal> w3m is installed
[01:34] <nixternal> but it stinks!
[01:34] <LaserJock> w3m rocks
[01:34] <mdke> stop whinging
[01:34] <LaserJock> w3m kicks lynx's butt anyday ;-)
[01:34] <mdke> LaserJock: bashrc still not working
[01:34] <nixternal> w3m is confusing
[01:34] <mdke> gpg: skipped "Matthew East <mdke@ubuntu.com>": secret key not available
[01:34] <mdke> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available
[01:34] <mdke> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
[01:35] <LaserJock> mdke: do you use seahorse?
[01:35] <mdke> yes
[01:35] <LaserJock> or other gpg agent
[01:35] <LaserJock> ah, there's your problem
[01:35] <nixternal> i forgot gnome uses seahorse, sorry
[01:35] <mdke> is there a bug?
[01:35] <LaserJock> yep
[01:35] <nixternal> ya, seahorse is dookie, as well as kgpg. it is better to edit keys by hand in cli
[01:35] <LaserJock> I don't use seahorse or any gpg-agent so I'm fine
[01:35] <mdke> seahorse is great
[01:36] <mdke> I never have to enter any passwords for anything
[01:36] <nixternal> i use gnupg-agent and pinentry-qt for KMail and packaging
[01:36] <nixternal> it is quite nice
[01:36] <LaserJock> well, it's just that dbuild doesn't work with them
[01:36] <LaserJock> anyway
[01:36] <mdke> maybe they will fix it
[01:36] <nixternal> LaserJock: isn't there an env you can set for dbuild that will use the key??
[01:36] <LaserJock> mdke: can you use debuild -k<emailinkey>
[01:37] <mdke> dunno. I'm not going to worry about it
[01:37] <mdke> time for sleepies!
[01:37] <LaserJock> nixternal: DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL do the trick for me
[01:37] <nixternal> g'nite Mr. East
[01:37] <nixternal> </james bond voice>
[01:37] <LaserJock> mdke: I think perhaps standalone server guide and packaging guide might be nice
[01:37] <nixternal> hmm, i only have debemail in mine
[01:38] <nixternal> actually, debemail will do that trick on its own
[01:38] <nixternal> it calls the email which is tied to my key
[01:38] <LaserJock> well, it could be debemail is sufficient
[01:38] <LaserJock> I just do wha tthe docs tell me :-)
[01:38] <nixternal> it must be, thats all i have in basrc
[01:38] <nixternal> .bashrc that is
[01:38] <nixternal> i usually do as well, but somehow didn't do the debfullname this time around
[01:40] <dsas> I always have the same problem mdke has, gpg-agent never works either.
[01:41] <LaserJock> dsas: with your key not working when running debuild?
[01:41] <dsas> LaserJock: yeah
[01:42] <LaserJock> there is a setting in the gnupg.conf that you can set to turn of the gpg-agent stuff
[01:42] <LaserJock> that'll fix it
[01:42] <LaserJock> but you also loose gpg-agenting
[01:43] <dsas> which also never works :)
[01:43] <LaserJock> there you go ;-)
[01:43] <LaserJock> honestly, I've never had a problem with debuild and gpg
[01:43] <LaserJock> but many people do
[01:44] <dsas> I've got used to typing my passphrase now anyway, I've turned off gpg-agent and I'll just wait and see what happens next time I attempt to build something
[01:44] <LaserJock> yeah, I always type my passphrase
[01:44] <LaserJock> but the only thing I use it for is packaging
[01:45] <mpt> goodnight mdke
[01:46] <mdke> nuit
[01:37] <highvoltage> !seen Burgandavia
[03:21] <Ubugtu> New bug: #78570 in ubuntu-docs (main) "dvd decryption with /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh is deprecated" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78570
[10:43] <jenda> mdke: thanks for that fix ;)
[10:43] <mdke> jenda: yw
[10:43] <mdke> jenda: thanks for spoon feeding them to me
[10:44] <jenda> hehe
[10:44] <jenda> happy to help.
[10:56] <LaserJock> did I every tell you guys I dislike doc licensing :-)
[10:56] <mdke> just grin and bear it, it'll be over soon
[11:00] <LaserJock> I think wiki.u.c almost has to be Public Domain-ish
[11:01] <mdke> can't see that one happening
[11:01] <mdke> then Microsoft would use all our ideas!
[11:01] <LaserJock> heh
[11:02] <LaserJock> \o/
[11:02] <dsas> time to pop the champagne?
[11:02] <LaserJock> hmm, I poped a Dr. Pepper
[11:02] <mdke> hardest fought spec EVAR award
[11:02] <LaserJock> popped, I think
[11:04] <nixternal> even though I am a FDL lovah
[11:29] <nixternal> LaserJock: they read my Rosey vs. the Donald email on Fox :)
[11:31] <LaserJock> me? no
[11:31] <LaserJock> oh, "they" sorry
[11:31] <LaserJock> awesome dude
[11:31] <nixternal> john gibson is an idiot
[11:31] <nixternal> although he did enjoy my "congressional degenerates" comment
[11:33] <LaserJock> :-)
[11:33] <LaserJock> dude, send me the email
[11:35] <LaserJock> hmm, ubuntuguide in farsi
[11:36] <nixternal> hehe, k
[11:38] <nixternal> sent
[11:50] <LaserJock> nixternal: nice and inflamitory, I like it ;-)
[11:50] <nixternal> hehe
[11:50] <nixternal> im going to email greda tonight as she is hyping it as well
[11:51] <LaserJock> bah, I can't stand watching greda most of the time
[11:51] <LaserJock> thank goodness I don't have cable
[12:03] <mpt> What's the hardest fought spec EVAR?
[12:03] <mdke> mpt: WikiLicensing
[12:03] <mdke> 15 months, approved, hi five