[12:17] <kwwii> exactly ;-)
[12:17] <Riddell> go mhb then
[12:17] <mhb> Would it be positive for Kubuntu Feisty to have a new default widget style? Plastik/Lipstik looks (to me) a bit inconsistent with the direction of Kubuntu artwork started with Edgy.
[12:17] <mhb> My suggestion described in detail can be found here: MartinBhm/Meetings/NewWidgetStyle.
[12:17] <imbrandon> btw kubuntu looks smokin on my new 22inch widescreen lcd :)
[12:17] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinB%c3%b6hm/Meetings/NewWidgetStyle
[12:17] <kwwii> I agree with mhb on this one, if we can assure that it works as well as lipstick
[12:18] <imbrandon> yea i'm for it too, as long as there is no regressions
[12:18] <imbrandon> looks thought out
[12:18] <Riddell> I've always wanted to keep the kubuntu widget style close to the KDE one
[12:18] <Tonio_> I agree too
[12:18] <Riddell> but maybe I'm outvoted :)
[12:18] <mhb> Riddell: you'll have the default style again with KDE4
[12:18] <Riddell> any idea if this works with gtk-qt-engine well?
[12:19] <Jucato> would QtCurve be a good alternative as well? it has the advantage of having a KDE and a GTK version. also extremely customizable so that we could make a Kubuntu scheme
[12:19] <kwwii> Riddell: that would be a prudent idea if there are no artists to work on kubuntu stuff
[12:19] <Tonio_> Riddell: lipstik ? it does
[12:19] <imbrandon> Jucato, thats what tk-qt engine is for :)
[12:19] <Riddell> changing the theme also makes qt 4 apps look out of place
[12:19] <Jucato> (QtCurve works with gtk2-engines-gtk-qt)
[12:19] <toma> i dont like the tabs with the thick lines and the selected button personally
[12:19] <Jucato> imbrandon: polyester doesn't exactly work well with the gtk-qt engine
[12:20] <Jucato> for example, if you have menu stripe enabled
[12:20] <sebas> What is kwwii's preference?
[12:20] <mhb> Jucato: actually it works badly only with firefox
[12:20] <Riddell> sebas: or pinheiro
[12:20] <Jucato> mhb: so only firefox is affected?
[12:20] <mhb> Jucato: but the menu stripe can go away completely
[12:20] <sebas> Riddell: If he's active here, yeah
[12:20] <kwwii> polyester or qt-curve(configured right)
[12:20] <mhb> Jucato: the author of gtk-qt confirmed that to me personally
[12:20] <nixternal> Jucato: i have noticed many of the kde styles/themes aren't working well with the gtk-qt engine, and especially with FF
[12:21] <imbrandon> honestly i think this should be a decision for pinheiro and kwwii because its artwork related and thats what they are paid to do but thats just my 0.2c ( and i like it ) but again i would hope for regression testing and qt4 compat etc
[12:21] <kwwii> FF is not default anyway
[12:21] <ryanakca> kwwii: I like polyester... used it for a couple of months...
[12:21] <sebas> I mean we can again start a "I like green better" discussion, but in the end, the artworkers have to make everything smooth and consistent
[12:21] <nixternal> i went back to good ol' plastik for windeco and qtcurve for style
[12:21] <Jucato> but a lot of people install it though... but yeah, not default :)
[12:21] <imbrandon> sebas, exactly
[12:21] <kwwii> kde4 will have a different style and windec anyway
[12:22] <imbrandon> honestly i think this should be a decision for pinheiro and kwwii because its artwork related and thats what they are paid to do but thats just my 0.2c ( and i like it ) but again i would hope for regression testing and qt4 compat etc
[12:22] <imbrandon> err
[12:22] <pinheiro> yes it will :P
[12:22] <imbrandon> sorry for double post
[12:22] <Jucato> we just have to make a decision for at least feisty :)
[12:22] <Riddell> so let's wait and see if we actually get artists properly assigned for feisty and make a choice then
[12:22] <kwwii> so we will be moving to something else for kde4 anyway
[12:22] <kwwii> Riddell: agreed
[12:22] <Riddell> interesting to see the high support for mhb's proposal though
[12:22] <imbrandon> ;)
[12:23] <Riddell> my item is next
[12:23] <Riddell> gwenview was unmaintained
[12:23] <Riddell> but now seems to be sort of maintained again
[12:23] <Riddell> I still think it duplicates digikam though
[12:23] <seaLne> what would you replace it with?
[12:23] <kwwii> gwenview is overkill for a picture viewer
[12:23] <Riddell> as an app, the plugin is the bit I care about
[12:23] <imbrandon> upstream or in debian ? and yes it dupes digikam imho
[12:24] <Riddell> (being the bit I wrote as well)
[12:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: I don't think gwenview duplicates showfoto
[12:24] <sebas> As a picture viewer I want the app that starts the fastest.
[12:24] <Jucato> should we have a lighter/faster image viewer instead?
[12:24] <Riddell> sebas: konqueror!
[12:24] <allee> imbrandon: no.  digikam uses one picture tree, gwenview does not
[12:24] <seaLne> i think it works well as a viewer in konq
[12:24] <imbrandon> sebas, ++
[12:24] <sebas> And that's probably not gwenview :(
[12:24] <Tonio_> showfoto is more to watch photos in an expert point of view, it is not an image viewer
[12:24] <toma> digikam is getting a professional audience more and more, i think gwenview fills the gap for the entry user
[12:24] <kwwii> as someone who mainly views pics I think the gwenview plugin is overkill
[12:25] <kwwii> not sure if there is something better though
[12:25] <Jucato> kwwii: gwenview plugin == kipi-plugins?
[12:25] <fdoving> kuickshow was nice :)
[12:25] <allee> Jucato: yes
[12:25] <Riddell> Jucato: no, the gwenview kpart used in konqueror
[12:25] <toma> Jucato: no, i think they mean the part
[12:25] <Jucato> ah
[12:25] <toma> ..
[12:25] <sebas> I've not seen a single viewer app that starts fast enough (well, maybe kpdf)
[12:26] <toma> so, i vote against removal
[12:26] <Jucato> ah ok... gwenview kpart
[12:26] <Tonio_> same for me
[12:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: what to use as replacement ?
[12:26] <Riddell> Tonio_: digikam for the app
[12:26] <nixternal> just fix the gwenview kpart for konqi so you can delete while viewing and it will be good :)
[12:27] <Riddell> of course
[12:27] <Tonio_> Riddell: digikam uses a tree
[12:27] <Jucato> nixternal: Shift+Delete
[12:27] <toma> Riddell: digikam is going for another audience imho
[12:27] <Tonio_> doesn't work on the all hard drive
[12:27] <ryanakca> just looking on the web for KDE image viewers, showimg, http://extragear.kde.org/apps/showimg/ . however, it looks more complex than digikam
[12:27] <Riddell> of course digikam is also first on the list to be knocked off the CD if we run out of space
[12:27] <Jucato> nixternal: but that deletes permanently...
[12:27] <nixternal> Jucato: i know that, but as im browsing images, i tend to use the mouse and layback away from the kb a little
[12:28] <seaLne> nixternal: thats starting to sound dodgy
[12:28] <nixternal> seaLne: or lazy :)
[12:28] <kwwii> using the kpart in konqueror I get confused between which arrow does what
[12:28] <nixternal> seaLne: hahaha i just freakin' caught that
[12:28] <kwwii> and I cannot right click on it to do anything...you have to use the menu entries
[12:29] <kwwii> but anyway....I am passing out
[12:29] <kwwii> night everyone
[12:29] <fdoving> nite kwwii.
[12:29] <ryanakca> hmm... showimg looks nice, even though a bit more complicated that gwenview... dunno if there's a plugin for
[12:29] <ryanakca> nite kwwii
[12:29] <allee> nite kwwii
[12:29] <Zerlinna> nite kwwii
[12:29] <Riddell> ok, nobody seems to want it removed so let's not
[12:29] <Jucato> bye kwwii!
[12:29] <mhb> goodnight kwwii
[12:29] <ryanakca> a plugin for konqueror in it
[12:29] <Tonio_> nite kwwii
[12:29] <imbrandon> l8tr kwwii
[12:30] <nixternal> g'nite kwwii
[12:30] <toma> that's about it without Hobbsee?
[12:30] <Tonio_> ryanakca: showimg is unmaintained and SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
[12:30] <Riddell> toma: seems to be
[12:30] <ryanakca> Tonio_: ah, kk
[12:30] <Jucato> kuickshow?
[12:30] <Tonio_> Jucato: unmaintained for 2 years
[12:30] <Jucato> oh
[12:30] <ryanakca> lol, 2003 :)
[12:30] <Riddell> Jucato: isn't even in the archives
[12:30] <Tonio_> 4 years sorry
[12:30] <Jucato> ah yeah, I remember that "issue" about it being removed :)
[12:31] <Riddell> although if someone wants to package it that would be good
[12:31] <nixternal> my only issue with gwenview personally is the issue of open bugs from over a year ago w/ no responses, but hopefully that will get fixed
[12:31] <ryanakca> kuickshow or showimg?
[12:31] <Riddell> kuickshow
[12:31] <ryanakca> kk
[12:31] <LjL> what with showfoto? i don't have it right now (broken in edgy), but i seem to recall it was quite a bit simpler-looking and probably faster-loading than gwenview, for simple image viewing
[12:31] <nixternal> as a matter of fact i noticed that the upstream bug of the eps issue has been confirmed
[12:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: did you read allee's comment on gwenview ?
[12:31] <fdoving> some kde-dev criticised the removal from the repos.. because he fixed bugs in it.. can't recall who though.
[12:31] <fdoving> it was some bugreport.
[12:31] <Tonio_> it might not be unmaintained finally, just slower development
[12:32] <Riddell> fdoving: as I said, I'd be happy to have it back in universe if someone wants to do that
[12:32] <Riddell> mhb: Hobbsee had an item about the testing team
[12:32] <mhb> Riddell: I know ... should we wait for her?
[12:32] <Riddell> mhb: Herd 2 is due out this week, recon we can have people testing it?
[12:32] <Riddell> naw, she's away snoozing
[12:32] <mhb> Riddell: I mean for the next meeting or so
[12:32] <allee> LjL: for showfoto: one has to disable all plugins (otherwise it's too slow to start),  and showfoto has no konqi part
[12:33] <mhb> Riddell: I've been thinking about the team's structure
[12:33] <mhb> Riddell: it seems I cannot keep the team intact for the early development phase
[12:33] <Tonio_> allee: and showfoto is more a "viewer for experts"
[12:33] <mhb> Riddell: because there is little to test and people are afraid to test the early release
[12:33] <allee> Tonio_: really?  Without plugins. I'ts for  newbie ;)
[12:33] <mhb> Riddell: so the solution is probably to make a buzz about it around the Devel CD 2 or so
[12:34] <Tonio_> allee: not talking about the usability, but the infos it displays etc....
[12:34] <manchicken> I've got a buddy at work who's a QA manager there who keeps on saying he wants to help.
[12:34] <Riddell> mhb: what do you mean devel cd 2?
[12:34] <manchicken> Maybe I could talk him into helping.
[12:34] <Tonio_> allee: it is done to whatch photos with professionnal eye
[12:34] <mhb> Riddell: Herd CD 2 in this case
[12:34] <Riddell> ryanakca: we have no idea what state it's in, that's why we need testers :)
[12:34] <ryanakca> hmm...
[12:34] <Riddell> mhb: that's this week then :)
[12:34] <mhb> Riddell: it's going to be named differently in the next release
[12:34] <mhb> Riddell: yeah, I kno
[12:34] <mhb> w
[12:35] <mhb> Riddell: I wanted to test the dailies first
[12:35] <ryanakca> bbl, supper
[12:35] <nixternal> dailies are all broken
[12:35] <mhb> Riddell: to find out if the upcoming Herd 2 is "stable" enough at least for testers
[12:35] <allee> nixternal: thx. I was about to burn todays daily after the meeting ;)
[12:35] <mhb> Riddell: I know I couldn't convince anyone if there was a font or locale bug
[12:36] <Riddell> mhb: sounds like it's too early for a big testing team call then
[12:36] <mhb> Riddell: usually testers want to use the system as well, they like the new stuff
[12:36] <nixternal> i downloaded daily and daily-live and neither of them will mount the cdrom
[12:36] <Zerlinna> mhb is there anything against testing it with qemu or vmware (except that is might be slow)? maybe more people would do that
[12:36] <Riddell> mhb: let's try and big it up for a future herd then
[12:37] <Riddell> in the mean time I'll be poking ryanakca and others for herd 2 testing :)
[12:37] <nixternal> well daily live crashes as soon as i clicked the install icon
[12:37] <mhb> Zerlinna: no, you can do that
[12:37] <nixternal> daily alternate won't mount the cdrom
[12:37] <Riddell> nixternal: get a backtrace?
[12:37] <mhb> Zerlinna: the problem is, I'm not sure if people are doing testing for the sake of testing or testing for the sake of fun and using edge systems
[12:38] <mhb> Riddell: there are some other minor issues
[12:38] <mhb> Riddell: Testers should have the possibility to submit their output easily, I think
[12:38] <nixternal> Riddell: already filed a bug with the backtrace
[12:38] <manchicken> Riddell: Do you need more help with testing or more help with what you've got me on?
[12:38] <Zerlinna> mhb well, both, I suppose... that's why I'd propose to run it virtualised so it can't damage anything
[12:39] <Riddell> nixternal: could you e-mail the number, I'll need to get onto that tomorrow morning
[12:39] <mhb> Riddell: editing wiki is not the easiest way to output data
[12:39] <nixternal> Riddell: roger that
[12:39] <manchicken> I don't want to risk upsetting the stable system though.
[12:39] <Riddell> manchicken: you're coding, keep your system stable :)
[12:39] <manchicken> Okie dokie.
[12:39] <manchicken> Riddell: Can I stab glade yet?
[12:39] <manchicken> ^_^
[12:39] <Riddell> so, also on the agenda is Hobbsee about #kubuntu channel contact, I made her alternate contact so hopefully that's sorted
[12:40] <Riddell> kmail and gpg is interesting, I had assumed that just worked
[12:40] <mhb> Zerlinna: if someone comes to me and says he wants to test Herd 2 through virtualiztion, I'll be happy to assist him
[12:40] <Jucato> ugh! I forgot to add an agenda about pppoeconf... :(
[12:40] <seaLne> Riddell: its always given me probs
[12:41] <mhb> Zerlinna: but I'll start making the buzz when a Herd CD is usable enough for a tester without virtualisation
[12:41] <toma> Riddell: no, it basically requires the right packages, a howto would be great though
[12:41] <imbrandon> Riddell, yea kmail + gpg isnt nice
[12:41] <fdoving> Jucato: i belive it's just something you bring up in #kubuntu-devel - isn't it?
[12:41] <Jucato> mhb: I came to you once about that, you didn't help me :P
[12:41] <mhb> Jucato: really?
[12:41] <Jucato> fdoving: well I wasn't the one who brought it up actually... forgot who did :)
[12:41] <nixternal> Riddell: on the other hand, KMail and GPG has always "just worked" for me :)
[12:41] <mhb> Jucato: I must have slept then :o)
[12:41] <Riddell> ryanakca had an agenda item
[12:41] <seaLne> and follwoing the howtos dosen't always work
[12:41] <nixternal> although i had to recently install gnupg-agent and pinentry-qt and that was that
[12:41] <fdoving> Jucato: i don't remember either.
[12:42] <Jucato> fdoving: Enola_Gay
[12:43] <Riddell> Jucato: what's this about pppoeconf?
[12:43] <mhb> what are we discussing now?
[12:43] <Riddell> any other items
[12:44] <mhb> okay
[12:44] <Jucato> Riddell: about making a K Menu entry to launch pppoeconf in Konsole
[12:44] <Riddell> Jucato: kmenu is for GUI apps only
[12:44] <fdoving> Riddell: as of now it's hard for pppoe users to get online to find the docs on how to run pppoeconf.
[12:45] <toma> seaLne: i'll meet some kmail crew on saturday, if you have any questions, i can pass them on
[12:45] <Riddell> Jucato: does knet work?
[12:45] <Jucato> oh yeah, KNOPPIX does it in a way that runs pppoeconf with a GUI...
[12:45] <nixternal> fdoving: im hoping to have that fixed with our new docs I am working on for not only Kubuntu but for KDE as well
[12:45] <fdoving> nixternal: good thing. :)
[12:45] <Jucato> Riddell: I have to test it out
[12:45] <nixternal> Jucato: there used to be a GUI for PPPoEConf when I had DSL many years ago
[12:46] <Riddell> Jucato: otherwise, adding a button to knetworkconf would be an option
[12:46] <fdoving> nixternal: it's xdialog based, and xdialog is ugly and in universe.
[12:46] <Jucato> ah xdialog
[12:46] <nixternal> ya it was ugly
[12:46] <nixternal> haha
[12:46] <Riddell> does KNOPPIX use the xdialog thing?
[12:47] <fdoving> i spendt half an hour hacking pppoeconf to work with pppoeconf.
[12:47] <nixternal> about as ugly as the java apps i have been seeing lately (i.e., frostwire, jloadr, and more)
[12:47] <Jucato> looks like it
[12:47] <fdoving> it can work, but i could just as fast write a new app for it.
[12:47] <nixternal> Riddell: on the side of 'PPP', KPPP seems to be giving lots of people issues.
[12:47] <Riddell> fdoving: do it :)
[12:47] <Jucato> will knetworkmanager be able to handle PPPoE soon? or shoud it be in knetworkconf?
[12:47] <toma> fdoving: youre quite confident ;-)
[12:48] <fdoving> Riddell: i belive there are enought half-way-there kde-network-apps..
[12:48] <fdoving> toma: it's bash :)
[12:48] <toma> ah
[12:48] <Riddell> fdoving: true
[12:48] <Riddell> Jucato: I've no idea
[12:48] <nixternal> fdoving: in Kubuntu that would be "it's dash" ;)
[12:48] <Jucato> ok... I'll test knet
[12:48] <Jucato> but knet would also make kppp redundant, iirc
[12:48] <fdoving> nixternal: yes, actually, it's dash.
[12:49] <nixternal> so no echo -e anymore, use echo " " or echo "blah\nblah"
[12:49] <Riddell> well, knet has its own usability issues
[12:49] <Jucato> iirc it's a bit unmaintained as well
[12:49] <nixternal> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=35471
[12:50] <Jucato> hm... that looks interesting
[12:50] <Riddell> now there's a programme with attitude
[12:50] <nixternal> has potential and was recently updated (28 Nov 06)
[12:50] <nixternal> hahah, the Roaring Penguin
[12:50] <Riddell> Jucato: able to test it and see if it works?
[12:50] <somerville32> You guys are still going at it in here? :] 
[12:51] <Jucato> ok I'll try to test it
[12:51] <nixternal> later Zerlinna and congrats!Q
[12:51] <toma> ok, i'll be at the kdepim meeting this weekend, if anyone has requests let me know...
[12:51] <mhb> bye Zerlinna
[12:51] <Jucato> bye Zerlinna
[12:51] <nixternal> toma: put it online so i can listen :)
[12:51] <fdoving> bye zerlinna.
[12:51] <Riddell> toma: write a report for the dot :)
[12:51] <Zerlinna> bye :)
[12:51] <toma> Riddell: ;-)
[12:51] <somerville32> :)
[12:51] <sebas> toma: No really, the PIM meetings are definitely too silent
[12:51] <nixternal> or send me the minutes and i will write up a story for the dot (i am on some sort of confuses promo team)
[12:52] <toma> sebas: yes, i'll at least do some blogs
[12:52] <Riddell> it needs someone who is there to write a report
[12:52] <sebas> toma: Cool
[12:52] <toma> Riddell: i'll see what i can do
[12:52] <Riddell> toma: thanks
[12:53] <sebas> ade's there as well, nixternal, that should give enough content for the dot
[12:53] <Riddell> any other items?
[12:53] <nixternal> sebas: rocking
[12:53] <Riddell> any volunteers to sort out the meeting wiki page and add a paragraph to UWN?
[12:53] <nixternal> svn commit -m "CCMAIL:jr@riddell.com muhahahahaha"
[12:53] <nixternal> ;p
[12:53] <mhb> Riddell: I can sort the wiki page
[12:54] <Riddell> you're the man mhb
[12:54] <toma> thanks mhb
[12:54] <Riddell> I think that's all then
[12:54] <Riddell> thanks everyone
[12:55] <toma> nite!
[12:55] <nixternal> yay \o/
[12:55] <mhb> good night and thanks
[12:55] <fdoving> nite.
[01:55] <effie_jayx> @schedule
[01:55] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Jan 15:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 16:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 20:00: Technical Board
[01:55] <effie_jayx> @schedule caracas
[01:55] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Caracas: 09 Jan 11:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 12:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 17:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 08:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 16:00: Technical Board
[02:04] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[02:04] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Jan 16:00: LoCo Team | 09 Jan 17:00: Forum Council | 09 Jan 22:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 21:00: Technical Board
[04:04] <markvandenborre> hi all
[04:04] <markvandenborre> who is here for the locoteams meeting?
[04:05] <GazzaK> hi or something
[04:05] <markvandenborre> anyone else?
[04:05] <markvandenborre> Seveas, you awake?
[04:05] <markvandenborre> JanC,
[04:08] <dsas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting is the meeting agenda
[04:08] <dsas> I think I read on the list that Jono may not be able to make it.
[04:09] <Seeker`> Does jono have to be here for the meeting to happen?
[04:09] <markvandenborre> dsas, you feel like guiding this meeting?
[04:09] <dsas> bah
[04:09] <markvandenborre> :)
[04:10] <markvandenborre> dsas, is that a yes or a no?
[04:10] <effie_jayx> Seeker`, he said he was not attending
[04:10] <dsas> that's a "please someone else step up"
[04:10] <markvandenborre> ok, I'll see what we can make out of this
[04:11] <dsas> I don't know anything about the issues in the agenda...
[04:11] <markvandenborre> 1. https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51382
[04:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51382 in ubuntu-website "Suggestion: LoCo Teams to Free Support Page" [Undecided,Fix released] 
[04:12] <markvandenborre> joey doesn't seem to be around
[04:12] <markvandenborre> anyone else was involved?
[04:12] <markvandenborre> any thoughts about it that might be interesting to add to the discussion?
[04:13] <markvandenborre> let's take 2 minutes to read through it
[04:13] <markvandenborre> for those who haven't yet, then comment
[04:13] <dsas> I've pinged mdke.
[04:13] <markvandenborre> Zelut, https://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-website/+bug/51382
[04:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51382 in ubuntu-website "Suggestion: LoCo Teams to Free Support Page" [Undecided,Fix released] 
[04:15] <dsas> Right, so what we need to do is ask each team if they provide that kind of support and make a list on the wiki, then get mdke to change the link.
[04:16] <_nairoV> do we have said wiki page?
[04:16] <dsas> _nairoV: Not yet.
[04:16] <markvandenborre> I thought I had seen it in some mailing list post
[04:16] <_nairoV> dsas: thanks
[04:17] <markvandenborre> any more suggestions on this?
[04:17] <dsas> markvandenborre: I didn't see anything likely in CategoryLoCoTeams
[04:18] <markvandenborre> maybe we should post on the locoteams list about this
[04:18] <_nairoV> markvandenborre: we are setting up framewrok for face to face support in Ohio
[04:18] <markvandenborre> _nairoV, same thing for us
[04:19] <_nairoV> I think it would be helpful for there to be one page to rule them all....
[04:19] <dsas> markvandenborre: Yeah, we should post on the list, with a link to a wiki page and let people update it.
[04:19] <markvandenborre> Belgian team has this highly succesful user map
[04:19] <dsas> a FaceToFaceSupport page name sound ok?
[04:19] <markvandenborre> ok, so one wiki page with the kinds of local face-to-face support teams give, right?
[04:19] <_nairoV> dsas: yes
[04:19] <markvandenborre> dsas, sounds fine to me...
[04:20] <markvandenborre> dsas, you do it, and post to the mailing list?
[04:20] <dsas> markvandenborre: sure.
[04:20] <markvandenborre> ok, any other comments on this?
[04:21] <markvandenborre> 3....
[04:21] <markvandenborre> 2....
[04:21] <markvandenborre> 1....
[04:21] <markvandenborre> next point
[04:21] <markvandenborre> interloco communications
[04:21] <markvandenborre> I believe (not sure) this has something to do with language problems, mostly
[04:22] <markvandenborre> of certain countries not having many people who are fluent enough in English to follow the locoteams mailing list
[04:22] <markvandenborre> getting information to flow between the international locoteams list and the local one is sometimes really difficult
[04:22] <markvandenborre> ideas for improving that?
[04:23] <Vorian_> markvandenborre: what about a loco planet?
[04:23] <markvandenborre> please explain yourself?
[04:24] <Vorian_> similar to http://planet.ubuntulinux.org/
[04:24] <ubuntugeek> hello all
[04:24] <markvandenborre> hi ubuntugeek
[04:24] <Vorian_> ubuntugeek: hey
[04:24] <ubuntugeek> who is here for the FC meeting? anyone
[04:24] <markvandenborre> having locoteam meeting right now...
[04:25] <ubuntugeek> ah yes i am early :)
[04:25] <ubuntugeek> got my times messes up
[04:25] <markvandenborre> Vorian_, how would that help solve the language problem?
[04:26] <markvandenborre> it's basicly about having a quite active Chinese community for example, but few people who speak English enough in this community
[04:26] <Vorian_> not so sure, just an idea lol
[04:26] <markvandenborre> :)
[04:27] <Zelut> markvandenborre: perhaps assign ambassadors to teams that need translators, etc.
[04:27] <dsas> Hm, there must be a few english speakers that can act as go betweens
[04:27] <effie_jayx> ambassadors help a great deal :D
[04:27] <markvandenborre> ok, so how can we make their jobs easier?
[04:28] <markvandenborre> this is probably why something like ubuntu weekly news is so important
[04:29] <markvandenborre> because it condenses a lot of information from the international community into something easily translatable
[04:29] <dsas> how can we encourage people to translate it?
[04:30] <dsas> maybe we can add a note to the UWN itself asking for translators
[04:30] <markvandenborre> by giving it a maximum length, for example?
[04:30] <markvandenborre> the last one (before christmas I believe) was _really_ long
[04:30] <Vorian_> markvandenborre: that should help...
[04:31] <dsas> Yeah, they are growing a lot, I don't imagine the marketing team being eager to shrink it though
[04:31] <dsas> we could possibly flag up certain sections to be a higher priority to be translated
[04:31] <markvandenborre> dsas, they probably should, to make it easier for translations to get through...
[04:31] <markvandenborre> it's also about being read in the english capable community
[04:31] <markvandenborre> too long, won't get read entirely
[04:32] <markvandenborre> maybe we could also include a call for translators into it, if that doesn't happen already?
[04:32] <dsas> markvandenborre: To shorten it will require some contact with the marketing team, we should see what their response is.
[04:32] <markvandenborre> (well, "we", I mean, we could suggest the uwn people to do so)
[04:32] <markvandenborre> ok,
[04:33] <markvandenborre> so getting information out of the mostly native language locoteams to the international community
[04:33] <markvandenborre> any hints on stimulating that?
[04:34] <dsas> ah, it does contain "If you'd like to read the UWN in your native language, please check http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter for a list of translations." already.
[04:34] <markvandenborre> perfect
[04:34] <Zelut> i wonder if we could find translators from rosetta.  if they're already working on a language perhaps they wouldn't mind a tad more.
[04:35] <markvandenborre> good point...
[04:35] <Zelut> and if its just the weekly newsletter it shouldn't be *too* much extra work.. I wouldn't think
[04:36] <markvandenborre> so how about getting this really interesting news fact out of the Kurdistan or Bhutan team to the international community?
[04:36] <markvandenborre> (locoteams community)
[04:37] <markvandenborre> maybe stimulate them to send in robot translations + the original if they can't find a translation immediately?
[04:37] <Zelut> thats where I think the ambassadors come in.  making sure information flows both ways
[04:37] <markvandenborre> k
[04:38] <markvandenborre> next point, or we'll be running over time
[04:38] <Vorian_> :)
[04:38] <Zelut> recruit someone whos main responsibility is simply translating communications between teams.. I think we could find some interest inthat.
[04:38] <markvandenborre> Zelut, absolutely
[04:38] <markvandenborre> next: locoteams documentation, how to make it more practical
[04:40] <markvandenborre> any thoughts about this?
[04:40] <Zelut> you referring to the locoteamshowto, locoteamslist, etc?
[04:40] <markvandenborre> loco docs, loco faq, locoteam howto,...
[04:40] <markvandenborre> this stuff, yes
[04:41] <markvandenborre> it might be really interesting to compile all the information that has gathered into something more comprehensive
[04:41] <markvandenborre> think a small, easily printable booklet
[04:42] <markvandenborre> right now, there's lots of information, but not always easy to find your way around...
[04:42] <markvandenborre> hey JoeyStanford !
[04:42] <Zelut> i know it was a lot of guesswork when I created our team
[04:42] <JoeyStanford> Hiya Mark!
[04:42] <Vorian_> Zelut: Same with us...
[04:42] <Zelut> a .pdf printable booklet would be nice I think
[04:43] <Zelut> a step 1, step 2, etc layout would be nice.
[04:43] <markvandenborre> maybe this is something to see on the mailing list if we can get a few people to work on it
[04:43] <markvandenborre> ?
[04:44] <markvandenborre> I would gladly join such an effort...
[04:44] <Vorian_> I'll help
[04:45] <markvandenborre> other ways to improve this locoteams howto document?
[04:45] <markvandenborre> documentation, I mean...
[04:45] <markvandenborre> something that is really missing from it?
[04:45] <Vorian_> I don't think there is
[04:46] <Vorian_> It is just not organized as well as it could be
[04:46] <markvandenborre> maybe it's also a good idea to have docs about new subjects grow on the wiki first, then include them...
[04:47] <markvandenborre> ok, next point, women's group
[04:47] <markvandenborre> any women around, or people who know what this is about?
[04:48] <markvandenborre> let's all have a brief look at http://ubuntu-women.org/ then...
[04:48] <JoeyStanford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen
[04:48] <JoeyStanford> both are the same
[04:49] <JoeyStanford> I believe the question was:
[04:49] <JoeyStanford> Ubuntu Women is a specialized community team (not necessarily Local)
[04:49] <JoeyStanford> Is there a place for them inside the LoCo structure.
[04:49] <dsas> I don't see why not, it's the same sort of thing...
[04:50] <markvandenborre> it seems like a perfect fit, considering we also have pure language oriented teams
[04:50] <markvandenborre> they aren't strictly locally linked either
[04:50] <markvandenborre> where else would they fit in?
[04:50] <Zelut> after scanning through the wiki I think it seems more of a team like the marketing team, docs team, etc..
[04:50] <JoeyStanford> Mark, I think that's the crux.
[04:51] <Zelut> I think loco focuses more on regional support
[04:51] <markvandenborre> Zelut, locoteams is really broad
[04:52] <markvandenborre> for some things, it's as much about translations as about face to face support
[04:52] <markvandenborre> no locoteam is the same in the tasks it defines for itself
[04:52] <Seeker`> but the LoCo teams that is based on locations, be it countries or langugaes
[04:53] <Seeker`> Women aren't in countries of their own, and they speak the same languages
[04:53] <markvandenborre> there's Kurdish people in Belgium too
[04:53] <markvandenborre> who are part of the Kurdish team...
[04:53] <markvandenborre> and in the us, and everywhere around the globe
[04:54] <JoeyStanford> Seeker, in this case, the UW group is a world-wide group. You are correct, they do not have a single local area.  The question to me is "do they do the things that a LoCo does but without a set geographical area". If the answer is yes, then they are simply a specialized LoCo.
[04:54] <markvandenborre> Seeker`, do you think it would be bad if they joined the locoteams list?
[04:54] <Zelut> i think they could work with loco teams in efforts of translation but I don't know about considering them a specialized loco, just a new team
[04:55] <JoeyStanford> "the LoCo project is here to help groups of Ubuntu fans and enthusiasts work together in regional teams to help advocate, promote, translate, develop and otherwise improve Ubuntu."
[04:55] <Seeker`> markvandenborre: I dont think it would be bad as such, I am just trying to work out wether they are actually a LoCo team or not
[04:55] <JoeyStanford> If I read their wiki and web page correctly, they have nailed each point except "regional"
[04:55] <markvandenborre> Seeker`, are angels male or female :p
[04:55] <JoeyStanford> their region would be the Internet.
[04:56] <markvandenborre> I think we don't have to define them as a locoteam or not
[04:56] <markvandenborre> but we and they sure could benefit from communicating
[04:56] <Seeker`> markvandenborre: I haven't given any thought to the question, and it is irrelevant
[04:56] <markvandenborre> and the locoteams list looks like an obvious pleace for that...
[04:56] <Zelut> again, I think coordinating the loco efforts with them would be beneficial (in the same way we'll help coordinate & translate with the marketing team) but considering them a loco seems to open to the door to consider every team a specialized loco
[04:57] <Seeker`> if you have a womans LoCo team, why not have a LoCo for people called "Chris", or people with brown hair?
[04:57] <JoeyStanford> Zelut has a good point. One of the concerns at UDS MTV was having multiple LoCos in a region.
[04:57] <markvandenborre> ah, that way you mean...
[04:57] <markvandenborre> Seeker`, would that be a bad thing?
[04:58] <JoeyStanford> Normally specialized groups fall under the Community Council and not the LoCo team. In this case we have a specialized group which looks like a LoCo team but doesn't have a region.
[04:58] <markvandenborre> you could easily say "even if we're not sure if you're a loco or not, you're welcome"
[04:58] <Vorian_> I, for one, feel they should be welcome in the loco organization...for what its worth
[04:59] <markvandenborre> okay for everyone if we tackle the next subject?
[04:59] <Vorian_> should we table it?
[04:59] <Seeker`> I think we have just run out of time
[04:59] <Vorian_> there is another meeting now
[04:59] <markvandenborre> who is responsible for the next meeting?
[05:00] <Vorian_> ubuntugeek:
[05:00] <PriceChild> markvandenborre, ubuntugeek
[05:00] <markvandenborre> ubuntugeek, have a few minutes left?
[05:00] <markvandenborre> or maybe we could move to #ubuntu-locoteams just as well...
[05:01] <ubuntugeek> we got a 2 hour slot, and i am sure we wont use it
[05:01] <ubuntugeek> so if you need a few more minutes go for it
[05:01] <markvandenborre> ok, so we just stay for another 5 to 10 minutes?
[05:01] <markvandenborre> thx!
[05:01] <ubuntugeek> thats fine
[05:01] <markvandenborre> how to setup a LoCoteam newsletter (and avoid fragmentation)
[05:01] <Zelut> what would be included in a locoteam newsletter?
[05:02] <markvandenborre> the issue at stake here is that if you create a passive medium like a newsletter
[05:02] <dsas> markvandenborre: What is supposed to be in the news letter?
[05:02] <markvandenborre> translated pr for new ubuntu releases
[05:02] <markvandenborre> announcements of events the locoteam participates in
[05:02] <markvandenborre> announcements of other news relevant to the locoteam
[05:03] <Vorian_> success stories!
[05:03] <markvandenborre> things like that
[05:03] <markvandenborre> the issue jono has with this is
[05:03] <Zelut> sounds like similar things included in the UWN..
[05:03] <markvandenborre> yes, but local level only
[05:03] <markvandenborre> something that we need to be very careful about
[05:04] <markvandenborre> is stimulating people who receive the newsletter
[05:04] <markvandenborre> to also join the more active locoteam list
[05:04] <markvandenborre> (so the local team list, not the international one)
[05:04] <markvandenborre> that's something particularly important to jono
[05:05] <markvandenborre> and he has something of a point there
[05:05] <JoeyStanford> Based on the above, at this time I would favour enhancing the UWN LoCo area over creation of a LoCo only newsletter.
[05:06] <JoeyStanford> UWN is in the beginnings of having it's issues translated.
[05:06] <Yann2> hi
[05:06] <Zelut> I think each of the LoCos probably send out newsletter type updates on their own lists, and we have the UWN which shares larger successes.. sounds like duplication.
[05:06] <JoeyStanford> Zelut, that's what my team does as well.
[05:06] <markvandenborre> we have the following situation:
[05:06] <Vorian_> Zelut: ditto
[05:06] <JoeyStanford> Zelut, but I think Jono's concern is to have one master LoCo newsletter
[05:07] <markvandenborre> lots of people on the locoteam list
[05:07] <markvandenborre> this list is for active participants
[05:07] <dsas> isn't the news worth folding into UWN though?
[05:07] <Vorian_> why don't we just start one, and work out any issues that come of it?
[05:07] <markvandenborre> (organising fairs, ...)
[05:07] <markvandenborre> Vorian_, what do you mean?
[05:07] <Vorian_> plan a newsletter for feb
[05:07] <Vorian_> see what reactions are
[05:07] <markvandenborre> what kind of a newsletter?
[05:08] <Vorian_> Loco specific
[05:08] <markvandenborre> what would be the added value of that?
[05:08] <Vorian_> with the topics you listed earlier
[05:08] <markvandenborre> locoteams list summary you mean?
[05:08] <Vorian_> yep
[05:08] <markvandenborre> isn't uwn enough?
[05:08] <markvandenborre> they have enough problems already keeping to a schedule
[05:09] <Vorian_> they could link to the loco news
[05:09] <markvandenborre> JoeyStanford, trying to explain why we are planning to run a local newsletter
[05:10] <markvandenborre> we have a lot of nl (or fr, for that matter) only people around
[05:10] <markvandenborre> who are only interested in more basic news like:
[05:10] <markvandenborre> new releases
[05:10] <markvandenborre> and events where ubuntu-be.org will be present
[05:10] <markvandenborre> this is quite a broad group
[05:11] <dsas> markvandenborre: Can't you just make a summary for UWN and then include any .be specifics?
[05:11] <markvandenborre> so we're talking really low frequency here
[05:11] <Vorian_> I say monthly
[05:11] <dsas> I don't have a problem with local newsletters, I must have misunderstood the idea.
[05:11] <markvandenborre> yes, very well possible
[05:11] <markvandenborre> the potential problem jono sees with this is fragmentation
[05:12] <markvandenborre> people not making the jump from the passive low frequency newsletter to the locoteam itself
[05:12] <markvandenborre> so we were looking for ideas on how to remedy that
[05:12] <dsas> there's no reason why you can't do your own newsletter and just link in to the few big news when it happens, or link to UWN saying "more news available at"
[05:12] <markvandenborre> good idea...
[05:12] <Vorian_> dsas: right on
[05:13] <markvandenborre> but also: link from the local newsletter to the local active volunteers mailing list
[05:13] <JoeyStanford> and more importantly to me, ensure the UWN has the details so we can spread the word to everyone else.
[05:13] <dsas> yeah, this shouldn't result in less info being passed to UWN
[05:13] <markvandenborre> if I understood jono correctly, this was not his objection
[05:14] <markvandenborre> he was more concerned about fragmenting the local community
[05:14] <markvandenborre> any hints on more ways to avoid that?
[05:15] <dsas> Currently if people don't want to be very active then what choices do they have: don't be part at all? Increasing ways of participation is not a bad thing.
[05:15] <markvandenborre> dsas, my thought exactly
[05:15] <markvandenborre> 3....
[05:15] <ubuntugeek> about 5 more mins good for you guys?
[05:15] <Larynx> :D
[05:15] <markvandenborre> 2....
[05:15] <markvandenborre> 1...
[05:15] <markvandenborre> 1/2....
[05:15] <markvandenborre> done
[05:16] <markvandenborre> thx all, thx ubuntugeek
[05:16] <JoeyStanford> fade to black
[05:16] <Vorian_> thanks markvandenborre !
[05:16] <ubuntugeek> great
[05:16] <markvandenborre> anyone
[05:16] <ubuntugeek> thanks guys
[05:16] <dsas> thanks ubuntugeek
[05:16] <markvandenborre> who's still interested, -> #ubuntu-locoteams
[05:16] <dsas> thanks markvandenborre for chairing
[05:16] <Larynx> o_O
[05:17] <Larynx> what did i miss?
[05:17] <ubuntugeek> Well al-rightly then.. Welcome to the first Forum council meeting.
[05:17] <ubuntugeek> Running late, but hey thats the way we roll :)
[05:19] <ubuntugeek> agenda can be found here
[05:19] <ubuntugeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[05:21] <vshelton> /help
[05:21] <vshelton> /list
[05:21] <ubuntugeek> ok so
[05:22] <ubuntugeek> Hopefully we'll build up some more people attending as this catches on :)
[05:22] <jdong> :) the wonders of IRC meetings
[05:22] <ubuntugeek> heh yeah :)
[05:22] <jdong> lol
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> Anyone here not know the purpose of the FC and wish to know the purpose?
[05:23] <PriceChild> ubuntugeek, first item has a lot of rambling potential :)
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> Yes it does
[05:23] <ubuntugeek> So the FC was recently setup as a governance council for the ubuntuforums.org site.
[05:24] <markvandenborre> sorry for interrupting, but....
[05:24] <ubuntugeek> the purpose of the FC is to make decisions on forum issues and resolve conflicts etc within the forums.
[05:24] <ubuntugeek> whats up?
[05:24] <markvandenborre> anyone has the logs for 16.00-> 17.15?
[05:24] <PriceChild> markvandenborre, I'll sort that out for you
[05:24] <markvandenborre> PriceChild, thx a lot
[05:24] <ubuntugeek> ok thanks pricy
[05:24] <markvandenborre> sorry again and bye
[05:25] <ubuntugeek> Today at the CC meeting Matthew and Mike will be hopefully elected on to the FC council giving us a 5 member team.
[05:26] <forumsmatthew> FYI... Matthew=me
[05:26] <ubuntugeek> :)
[05:27] <ubuntugeek> Ok lets discuss setting up forum teams. I know pricechild you are ready to roll on this idea.. what thoughts do you have
[05:27] <PriceChild> Well shall we start with the leadership applications?
[05:27] <PriceChild> make a small shortlist?
[05:28] <ubuntugeek> yep
[05:28] <ubuntugeek> I think we need to take the leadership applications and make a list for sure.
[05:28] <jdong> yes
[05:28] <forumsmatthew> are those who applied here?
[05:29] <Vorian_> i'll speak for jacobmp92[away]  - he's in school right now
[05:29] <PriceChild> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=289810
[05:29] <ubuntugeek> we might have to do the electing at the next time.. to give more ample time for people to attend.
[05:29] <jdong> forumsmatthew: let's first make a list of everyone and do one-by-one
[05:29] <PriceChild> that thread contains applications only
[05:29] <ubuntugeek> but we can get a more official list going now
[05:30] <jdong> shall we go down the list in order of application?
[05:31] <PriceChild> jdong, ok so starting with plb: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695126&postcount=2
[05:31] <jdong> is plb present?
[05:31] <PriceChild> I don't think many are jd
[05:32] <jdong> it looks that way :-/
[05:32] <PriceChild> any comments on plb?
[05:33] <jdong> ok, different approach: who is here seeking application as a Team Leader?
[05:33] <forumsmatthew> this is an interesting quote from his application
[05:33] <jdong> so far, I see Vorian_
[05:33] <forumsmatthew> "the majority of my posts here are more or less rants in the Cafe and suggestions for development"
[05:33] <Vorian_> jdong: I'm shooting for secretary... not team leader
[05:34] <jdong> Vorian_: ah, ok
[05:34] <jdong> forumsmatthew: yeah, I saw that too
[05:34] <PriceChild> I'm much more impressed by Lord Illian's application which is up next http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695147&postcount=3
[05:35] <PriceChild> it is also for abs beginners against plb (and also hardware)
[05:35] <ubuntugeek> pricechild: I like his application as wel
[05:35] <ubuntugeek> well*
[05:35] <forumsmatthew> he's been an active member for some time and a good one as well
[05:35] <ubuntugeek> Anyone else have comments on him?
[05:36] <jdong> he looks ideal for beginners
[05:36] <PriceChild> Lord Illian has also made a sustained positive contribution to the forums
[05:36] <ubuntugeek> I'll make a list of people then we can make a finalization after we go through the list
[05:36] <jdong> he seems to have the motivation to help beginners
[05:36] <ubuntugeek> Ok i'll mark him as a candidate for beginners area
[05:37] <ubuntugeek> Next, we have http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695371&postcount=4
[05:37] <ubuntugeek> for beginners as well
[05:37] <PriceChild> jeffrc313
[05:38] <forumsmatthew> I think he has the potential to be a good team member
[05:38] <PriceChild> he's reasonably active it seems
[05:38] <ubuntugeek> Matthew: I agree
[05:38] <jdong> he's not the most active ever, but does regularly visit the forums
[05:39] <jdong> I find his signature... questionable though?
[05:39] <PriceChild> Checking his last posts though... are mostly asking for support
[05:39] <PriceChild> not much giving
[05:39] <jdong> my site: www.theironknuckle.com
[05:39] <jdong> "I drop science like girls be droppin' babies"
[05:39] <jdong> hmm
[05:39] <ubuntugeek> hmm yeah..
[05:39] <jdong> the site doesn't load
[05:39] <ubuntugeek> ok lets move on
[05:39] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695486&postcount=5
[05:39] <ubuntugeek> dillbertdabomb
[05:40] <PriceChild> didn't follow instructions on format of application :P
[05:40] <forumsmatthew> asks to be a member, he didn't apply for leadership
[05:40] <jdong> PriceChild: I was gonna say :)
[05:40] <forumsmatthew> "I would like to be a team member for the beginner section."
[05:40] <PriceChild> ah ok
[05:40] <ubuntugeek> dillbert is just wanted to be a team member soo
[05:40] <PriceChild> shall we move on
[05:40] <jdong> yes, doesn't seem like leader is the role he wanted
[05:40] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695640&postcount=6
[05:40] <ubuntugeek> raqball
[05:41] <ubuntugeek> unanswered posts area
[05:41] <forumsmatthew> has serious potential
[05:41] <jdong> I like his dedication to unanswered posts
[05:41] <ubuntugeek> Ok just wants to be a team member as well
[05:41] <forumsmatthew> looking through his posts now...
[05:42] <ubuntugeek> at least thats how i took his answer to the 1. question
[05:42] <forumsmatthew> they don't really match his application statements
[05:42] <jdong> ubuntugeek: it seems like he's ok with being either
[05:42] <ubuntugeek> or is he saying he wants to be a team leader and wants to be on a team?
[05:42] <ubuntugeek> ok
[05:42] <forumsmatthew> he didn't lie, he has just been more active other ways
[05:42] <jdong> ubuntugeek: all the credentials he gave seem to be leadership-oriented
[05:42] <forumsmatthew> mainly cafe since early November
[05:43] <ubuntugeek> good candidate for the answered team leader then?
[05:43] <PriceChild> let put him on the list? :)
[05:43] <jdong> wait a sec please
[05:43] <PriceChild> hehe :)
[05:43] <jdong> seeing a lot of chatter and not much support
[05:43] <PriceChild> doesn't seem to be the most helpful
[05:44] <PriceChild> yeah
[05:44] <jdong> currently digging to nov 1st
[05:44] <ubuntugeek> jdong agreed
[05:44] <forumsmatthew> @jdong agreed
[05:44] <Bonzodog> Can I just a very slightly in-a-roundabout-way related question?
[05:44] <Bonzodog> +ask
[05:44] <ubuntugeek> lets put him on and move on we can come back to a more detailed approach after we get the list
[05:44] <PriceChild> !ask|Bonzodog
[05:44] <jdong> yeah
[05:44] <PriceChild> no ubotu :P
[05:44] <Bonzodog> Is there any plans to ressurect a team related to the UDSF?
[05:45] <jdong> Bonzodog: please put that on the agenda if you want it discussed
[05:45] <jdong> it really isn't related :)
[05:45] <jdong> even in the most roundabout ways
[05:45] <PriceChild> David Corrales  http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695718&postcount=7 also seems to be mainly asking to be a member
[05:45] <forumsmatthew> agreed
[05:45] <ubuntugeek> agreed
[05:45] <jdong> k, skip
[05:45] <jdong> let's process the leaders first
[05:46] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695911&postcount=8
[05:46] <PriceChild> rekahsoft http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695911&postcount=8
[05:46] <jdong> his application looks very nice
[05:46] <PriceChild> not many posts in abs beginners...
[05:46] <PriceChild> mostly in gaming and leisure / programming
[05:46] <ubuntugeek> mostly posts in gaming it appears
[05:46] <jdong> a young one, too
[05:47] <PriceChild> not the youngest on the list ;)
[05:47] <ubuntugeek> i think the people applying for a position need to be pretty active in the area
[05:47] <forumsmatthew> that would seem appropriate
[05:47] <ubuntugeek> so.. with that said lets move on to the next one
[05:48] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1696101&postcount=9
[05:48] <ubuntugeek> djsroknrol
[05:48] <ubuntugeek> unanswered or beginners area
[05:48] <PriceChild> not very active... and latest are chatty
[05:49] <PriceChild> well not the least active though
[05:49] <ubuntugeek> agreed
[05:49] <jdong> so far I'm not seeing anyone near Lord Illian's activity level
[05:49] <PriceChild> agreed
[05:49] <forumsmatthew> jdong: agreed
[05:49] <PriceChild> whoa!!!
[05:49] <PriceChild> Vorian_, has a big point to make
[05:49] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1696423&postcount=10
[05:49] <ubuntugeek> blendmaster
[05:49] <Vorian_> djsroknrol is a mod on mod free
[05:50] <ubuntugeek> beginner forums team
[05:50] <jdong> Vorian_: good point, thanks for bringing it up
[05:50] <forumsmatthew> @Vorian_ hmm
[05:50] <jdong> though we need to investigate more into that
[05:50] <ubuntugeek> most of his posts are in the beginners area
[05:50] <jdong> I'd rather we not be labeling anyone by their out-of-forums affiliations
[05:51] <ubuntugeek> anyone have thoughts on blendmaster?
[05:51] <jdong> blendmaster, yet another member seeker
[05:51] <ubuntugeek> ah yes
[05:51] <PriceChild> "maybe" not all his posts are the most helpful
[05:51] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1696468&postcount=11
[05:51] <jdong> (wow the forums must really hate how much we're using find all posts right now :D)
[05:52] <ubuntugeek> lyceum
[05:52] <ubuntugeek> unaswered team
[05:52] <PriceChild> wb matthew5
[05:52] <forumsmatthew> isp issues
[05:52] <jdong> ubuntugeek: where'd you get unanswered team from?
[05:53] <PriceChild> He seems very chatty
[05:53] <Vorian_> he is active in the beginners area
[05:53] <PriceChild> jdong, he says active and unanswered at hte bottom of psot
[05:53] <ubuntugeek> "I have answered questions I know as I find them. If I am not selected, I would like to join the team that helps new users or the unanswered posts. I am applying here for team-leader of either."
[05:53] <jdong> oh :)
[05:53] <jdong> so beginners or unanswered
[05:53] <ubuntugeek> unaswered looks good.. he seems pretty active i think
[05:53] <forumsmatthew> Is he still active?
[05:54] <jdong> let's quickly find all the leader-candidates by a high-bean count....
[05:54] <forumsmatthew> last post is see is from November
[05:54] <jdong> I'm seeing a lot of member applications so far
[05:54] <ubuntugeek> jdong yeah
[05:54] <jdong>  Lord Illian is a good benchmark (in my mind) of leadership candidacy
[05:54] <PriceChild> kuja?
[05:55] <forumsmatthew> jdong: agreed
[05:55] <ubuntugeek> Lord Illian looks good yeah
[05:55] <PriceChild> hehe
[05:55] <jdong> kuja seems to do a lot of 64-bit work
[05:55] <PriceChild> why isn't everyone like Lord Illian :)
[05:55] <PriceChild> jdong, yeah
[05:55] <PriceChild> not sure where else though] 
[05:55] <jdong> but he's chatty too
[05:56] <jdong> I don't see much else
[05:56] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1700569&postcount=19
[05:56] <ubuntugeek> unaswered team
[05:56] <ubuntugeek> jeesh i wish i could spell today lol
[05:56] <jdong> we should've added "give 5 examples of posts you made that best represent your identity at the forums"
[05:57] <PriceChild> I remember mr jacobmp92 from somewhere
[05:57] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I'm not doing much better; this room is 50 degrees and I'm frezing my fingers off
[05:57] <Vorian_> ubuntugeek: He has been a very valuable member of our loco team
[05:57] <PriceChild> jacobmp92 seems quite good
[05:58] <Vorian_> PriceChild: agreed
[05:58] <forumsmatthew> he has several very helpful posts
[05:58] <ubuntugeek> agreed ok i'll add him to my list
[05:58] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1703030&postcount=20
[05:58] <ubuntugeek> mssever
[05:58] <ubuntugeek> unanswered posts
[05:58] <PriceChild> active
[05:58] <jdong> one of the most elegantly organized applications to this point
[05:59] <forumsmatthew> application is very promising
[05:59] <forumsmatthew> I'm off to review post
[05:59] <forumsmatthew> posts
[05:59] <PriceChild> helpful
[05:59] <jdong> helpful indeed
[05:59] <jdong> most of his posts are help oriented
[05:59] <forumsmatthew> I give him high marks
[05:59] <ubuntugeek> ok i'll add him to the list
[05:59] <PriceChild> seems to have dropped off this past month from his "4 posts a day"
[06:00] <jdong> yes, high regards to this guy
[06:00] <ubuntugeek> next
[06:00] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1703265&postcount=21
[06:00] <ubuntugeek> apjone
[06:00] <ubuntugeek> beginner or hardware
[06:00] <jdong> PriceChild: given the december season, I can understand :)
[06:00] <PriceChild> jdong, yeah :)
[06:00] <Vorian_> haven't had many hardware candidates...
[06:01] <ubuntugeek> seems like a good canidate for hardware
[06:01] <PriceChild> yeah
[06:01] <PriceChild> agreed ubijtsa2
[06:01] <PriceChild> argh
[06:01] <PriceChild> annying autocomplete
[06:01] <forumsmatthew> hardware...
[06:01] <PriceChild> Nothing much in the hardware forum.... but most posts revolving around hardware
[06:01] <forumsmatthew> PC yep
[06:01] <jdong> he helps a lot
[06:02] <jdong> answers a lot of beginner or driver related questions
[06:02] <ubuntugeek> k, added to the list
[06:02] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1704006&postcount=22
[06:02] <ubuntugeek> klaidas
[06:02] <ubuntugeek> beginner
[06:02] <jdong> he seems active :)
[06:03] <PriceChild> and sustained
[06:03] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1985143#post1985143
[06:03] <jdong> :-/
[06:03] <jdong> interesting statement
[06:03] <PriceChild> hmmm not the most helpful posts
[06:03] <ubuntugeek> yeah
[06:04] <forumsmatthew> we have better candidates
[06:04] <ubuntugeek> ok lets move on
[06:04] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1707025&postcount=24
[06:04] <ubuntugeek> wayward
[06:04] <ubuntugeek> unanswered posts
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> only has 9 posts
[06:05] <jdong> wow
[06:05] <PriceChild> impressive application but only 9 posts
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> ok next
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1763295&postcount=26
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> bodhi.zazen
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> beginner
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> begineer
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> bah
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> lol
[06:05] <PriceChild> why does he have to take on Lord Illian :(
[06:05] <forumsmatthew> he's been quite impressive for some time
[06:05] <ubuntugeek> matthew i agree
[06:06] <PriceChild> yup
[06:06] <Vorian_> lord illian can do hardware... right?
[06:06] <PriceChild> hehe he gave 5 helpeful contributions ;)
[06:06] <forumsmatthew> note: "Please consider my application for a position with the Beginner Area Team."
[06:06] <jdong> I like his application
[06:06] <ubuntugeek> me too adding him to the list
[06:06] <jdong> PriceChild: it's beter than the 0 I've seen so far
[06:06] <jdong> PriceChild: plus I think I haven't written more than 5 howtos either :)
[06:06] <ubuntugeek> lastly
[06:06] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1763747&postcount=27
[06:06] <ubuntugeek> saphira
[06:07] <PriceChild> not active enough?
[06:07] <ubuntugeek> not sure which team either
[06:07] <forumsmatthew> PC: that's my thought
[06:07] <jdong> short paragraph
[06:07] <jdong> liberal interpretation of short paragraph :)
[06:07] <Vorian_> lol
[06:08] <jdong> he seems to have his way of linnking to gwos for everything
[06:08] <jdong> let's look through gwos
[06:08] <jdong> and measure his contribution level there
[06:08] <jdong> I have a feeling his work might be concentrated there
[06:08] <jdong> grr, doesn't load
[06:08] <jdong> his loss
[06:08] <jdong> NEXT :)
[06:08] <ubuntugeek> OK so
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> these are the canidates
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> beginners
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1763295&postcount=26 - bodhi.zazen
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1695147&postcount=3 - Lord Illidan
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> hardware
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1703265&postcount=21 - apjone
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> Unanswered
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1700569&postcount=19 - jacobmp92
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1703030&postcount=20 - mssever
[06:09] <jdong> good
[06:09] <jdong> I think to proceed we'll need to be able to speak with these people
[06:09] <ubuntugeek> The next step, lets schedule the finalization for the next meeting. This way we can give them time to bring examples along with them.
[06:09] <jdong> either by IRC, interview in forum thread.... etc
[06:10] <PriceChild> wb again matthew5
[06:10] <ubuntugeek> The next meeting we can finalize those canidates and make sure they come to the meeting prepared with stuff to back themselves up
[06:10] <jdong> yes
[06:10] <ubuntugeek> sound good?
[06:10] <ubuntugeek> ok
[06:11] <jdong> poor forumsmatthew :)
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> at the next meeting lets do that process first, then afterwards discuss the implementation of the teams
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> when the new team leaders are on board
[06:11] <jdong> yes
[06:11] <PriceChild> agreed :)
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> k
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> Next
[06:11] <jdong> I'd like to see team leaders involved in picking out their team
[06:11] <ubuntugeek> agreed
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> team leaders will be able to approve people who apply to their team via the forums user cp
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> Forum Secretary Position
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> two canidates
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> vorian and pricechild
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> waves
[06:12] <forumsmatthew> both are good candidates
[06:12] <ubuntugeek> both are good candidates
[06:13] <forumsmatthew> jinx
[06:13] <PriceChild> hehe... now ubuntugeek can't talk :P
[06:13] <ubuntugeek> lol
[06:13] <jdong> ubuntugeek ubuntugeek ubuntugeek
[06:13] <jdong> or something like that :)
[06:13] <ubuntugeek> ok so..
[06:13] <forumsmatthew> how about something like
[06:13] <jdong> battle to the death?
[06:13] <forumsmatthew> tell us why to choose you
[06:13] <jdong> ok, works for me
[06:13] <jdong> :)
[06:13] <forumsmatthew> without saying anything bad
[06:14] <ubuntugeek> yep sounds good
[06:14] <forumsmatthew> about the other candidate
[06:14] <ubuntugeek> Vorian go for it
[06:14] <Vorian_> well
[06:14] <Vorian_> Like i said in my post
[06:15] <PriceChild> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=323554
[06:15] <Vorian_> I have gained alot from UF, and I appreciate all that I have gained
[06:15] <Vorian_> I want to give back in what ever way I can...
[06:15] <Vorian_> I am a manager by profession, and this kind of work is right up my alley
[06:16] <Vorian_> PLUS
[06:16] <Vorian_> I love Ubuntu Forums :-)
[06:16] <ubuntugeek> ;)
[06:16] <jdong> Vorian_: does your schedule allow you to regularly attend Forum Council meetings?
[06:16] <Vorian_> I make my own schedule
[06:16] <jdong> ah, ideal :)
[06:16] <Vorian_> :)
[06:16] <ubuntugeek> our goal is the first tuesday of every month at 16:00 utc
[06:16] <ubuntugeek> ok great
[06:16] <ubuntugeek> Pricechild?
[06:16] <ubuntugeek> your up
[06:16] <PriceChild> Vorian_, has also got a lot of experience with helping lead the Ohio LoCo
[06:17] <PriceChild> When people ask me why I spend time hepling out on these forums, I normally tell them that because of the Ubuntu community, I have a completely free and feature rich computer sitting infront of me, but its more than that. Despite the reputation ubuntuforums.org has amongst a large majority of the core Ubuntu community, I'm extremely proud to have been "educated" here, and hope to give this back. Being a mod, and hopefully with this
[06:17] <PriceChild>  position I want to help take ubuntuforums.org to the core group, further integration is only a good thing. Towards this aim, I'm part of the forum ambassadors project, and am opping a couple more channels on irc.
[06:17] <ubuntugeek> :)
[06:17] <jdong> look who pre-authored his speech :)
[06:17] <forumsmatthew> oh, man. I missed it
[06:17] <Vorian_> cut and paste....
[06:17] <Vorian_> er*lol
[06:17] <forumsmatthew> thanks, PriceChild
[06:17] <ubuntugeek> guys i got a work meeting in 5.. shoot..
[06:18] <ubuntugeek> jodng? thoughts
[06:18] <jdong> hmm
[06:19] <jdong> both of you are well qualified for the job
[06:19] <PriceChild> lol he's gone again...
[06:19] <PriceChild> poor matthew
[06:20] <Vorian_> PriceChild: arm wrestle?
[06:21] <ubuntugeek> I think the fairest route will be to give vorian a +1. He isn't a staff member (pricey already has fun) and this will allow for some new blood to get on the team.
[06:22] <jdong> +1, ubuntugeek; in addition a non-staff secretary has the added benefit of neutrality
[06:22] <PriceChild> woo go Vorian_ :)
[06:22] <forumsmatthew> He's also been around for a long time and has a good feel
[06:22] <forumsmatthew> +1
[06:22] <ubuntugeek> great
[06:22] <ubuntugeek> ok settled
[06:22] <Vorian_> thanks guys!
[06:22] <ubuntugeek> ok the last thing on the agenda
[06:22] <frodon> congrats Vorian_ ;)
[06:22] <ubuntugeek> from Henrik
[06:22] <ubuntugeek> henrik you here?
[06:22] <Vorian_> frodon: thanks :)
[06:22] <PriceChild> ping heno,
[06:22] <jdong> heno: ping, you're up :)
[06:22] <ubuntugeek> Cause i gotta fly in like 1 minutes
[06:23] <heno> hi folks!
[06:23] <ubuntugeek> jdong. matthew can you guys finish up?
[06:23] <forumsmatthew> yes
[06:23] <ubuntugeek> i'll post the notes later on
[06:23] <jdong> ubuntugeek: sure thing
[06:23] <ubuntugeek> thanks guys
[06:23] <heno> Just introducing myself really :)
[06:23] <jdong> heno: we'd love to hear :)
[06:23] <heno> I'd love to see some involvement from forum mods/leaders in the ISO testing of Herd 2
[06:24] <heno> starting this week
[06:24] <heno> (we think)
[06:24] <jdong> ok
[06:24] <jdong> what can we do to help with the ISO testing?
[06:24] <heno> And generally you can contact me with development related items
[06:25] <heno> jdong: see http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=201
[06:25] <jdong> viewing it right now
[06:25] <heno> I'd like help in collating the test data as it comes in
[06:26] <heno> It might be just a few testers or a whole flood, who knows ;)
[06:26] <jdong> first we need to get the word out more prominently
[06:26] <heno> I also look forward to working with the Forum Ambassadors when they get going
[06:26] <jdong> I don't think many people will find or look for that particular subforum
[06:26] <heno> jdong: agreed
[06:26] <jdong> forumsmatthew, PriceChild, staff, how should we go about it?
[06:27] <jdong> the forums will have a large base of users willing to conduct such testing
[06:27] <heno> It needs to be promoted, but a slow, rolling start is OK too
[06:27] <heno> so we can figure out the mechanics of collating the data
[06:27] <heno> we need to be able to trust the results also ...
[06:28] <jdong> I'm currently reading the testing howto
[06:28] <jdong> does testing require the instalation of ubuntu from the candidate ISO's
[06:28] <jdong> or just booting them up and making sure they function
[06:29] <heno> usually, yes
[06:29] <jdong> ok
[06:29] <heno> testing the Live CD is just the simplest test
[06:29] <jdong> heno: first, I think the testing how-to needs to be tweaked a bit to be simpler to understand
[06:29] <heno> installation (in various ways) is important
[06:29] <jdong> exactly what is being asked
[06:30] <heno> the one in the forum, or wiki (or both)?
[06:30] <jdong> the one in the forum
[06:30] <jdong> make it more clear what you want users to do in order to be helpful
[06:30] <jdong> i.e. "find a spare computer that you can do ubuntu installations on, etc"
[06:30] <heno> btw, also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[06:31] <heno> the current test results page
[06:31] <heno> right, I see. good point
[06:31] <jdong> right now, the documents are pretty easy to understand for developers
[06:31] <forumsmatthew> I think if you make it clear for people who are not used to doing this sort of thing
[06:31] <forumsmatthew> how to do it
[06:31] <forumsmatthew> you will get some good volunteers
[06:31] <jdong> right
[06:32] <heno> ok, cool
[06:32] <forumsmatthew> most forums members are new at this sort of thing
[06:32] <forumsmatthew> but want to help
[06:32] <forumsmatthew> they just don't know how
[06:32] <forumsmatthew> give clear steps and I think they will come
[06:32] <heno> great, ok. I'll fix that
[06:32] <jdong> we'd be glad to allow you to post a linking thread in a prominent area of the forum whenever testing is requested
[06:32] <jdong> just right now, I think you'll get a lot of "huh?" and not much useful input
[06:33] <heno> is there any other place we should post a basic introduction
[06:33] <jdong> an introduction paragraph explaining in easy to understand terms of what ISO testing is, why it needs to be done, and what it involves from the user
[06:33] <heno> the Cafe or something?
[06:33] <jdong> would be nice for the howto
[06:33] <heno> right
[06:33] <forumsmatthew> I agree: howto
[06:33] <jdong> heno: revise the testing how-to to be an easy-to-understand document
[06:34] <jdong> with a quick summary at the top so users can quickly determine if they want to do it or not
[06:34] <heno> yep, ok
[06:34] <heno> thanks, good feedback
[06:34] <jdong> then, every time a candidate CD rolls out, you can post a "ISO Testers Required" post in, say, the cafe, linking to that howto
[06:35] <jdong> or perhaps such postings would be more appropriate in the Feisty Fawn development forum
[06:35] <heno> Yes, I'm already a bit active there
[06:35] <forumsmatthew> I think the development forum is the place where you are most likely to find people interested
[06:35] <jdong> (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=179)
[06:36] <forumsmatthew> but an announement in the cafe with a link to the howto couldn't hurt
[06:36] <heno> It also helps if they have some Linux familiarity too
[06:36] <PriceChild> We really need to make the dev forum useful....
[06:36] <jdong> right
[06:36] <heno> so they can file good bug reports with logs, etc
[06:36] <PriceChild> edgy's was great but feisty's been a bit pants... a project like this would help loads :)
[06:36] <jdong> heno: you can request any level of experience you think appropriate, just make it clear what you expect from testers please :)
[06:36] <jdong> I also noticed this from heno: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=333915
[06:37] <jdong> some of that should probably be expanded or updated
[06:37] <jdong> i.e. AFAIK new specs aren't gonna be accepted for feisty anymore
[06:37] <jdong> bug reporting, triaging, and testing ISO images should be expanded a bit
[06:38] <heno> or reworded, rather
[06:38] <jdong> with more info on what would be helpful
[06:38] <jdong> and in the case of triaging, how to go about it
[06:38] <heno> (I posted it just yesterday)
[06:38] <heno> the point is basically that there is little point suggesting new features now
[06:39] <heno> but you can always start on a spec for Feisty+1
[06:39] <jdong> right
[06:39] <heno> I should make that more clear
[06:39] <jdong> say that bluntly :)
[06:39] <heno> ok
[06:39] <jdong> also, reword the bug triaging stuff to be a bit more 'threatening'
[06:39] <heno> IN THE FORUM THINGS NEED TO BE SAID BLUNTLY I get it ;)
[06:39] <jdong> more to the likening of "if you don't help us find these bugs, don't cry about the bugs on release day"
[06:40] <jdong> ;-)
[06:40] <PriceChild> come on you're a dev heno, you should know that already ;)
[06:40] <heno> I've lived in England too long :)
[06:40] <jdong> in any communicatons medium, people will skim and read with ADHD
[06:40] <heno> yeah, need to sharpen my terseness a bit
[06:40] <PriceChild> big bold red writing helps I find :P
[06:40] <jdong> heno: at one point my backports guidelines were bumped to size-108 fonts
[06:41] <jdong> because nobody would freakin listen :)
[06:41] <heno> heh, ok
[06:42] <heno> right, I think that's all from me for now
[06:42] <jdong> heno: and whenever you see the forums having unholy behavior (using the forums as a bug tracker, posting unsafe checkinstalled debs or other unsafe instructions, etc) please let us know :)
[06:42] <jdong> we'd like to keep that sort of behavior controlled
[06:42] <heno> I'll check in on these meetings regularly
[06:42] <jdong> don't be afraid to use the Report Posts button when you see stuff like that, heno
[06:42] <heno> right, ok
[06:43] <heno> I might apply for mod rights in the feisty forum too
[06:43] <heno> (as I have in the ISO testing forum)
[06:43] <jdong> heno: right now we have technical issues with vbulletin and making limited-mods
[06:43] <jdong> heno: you say you have mod access in iso testing?
[06:43] <heno> yes
[06:43] <jdong> ok, perhaps things have changed :)
[06:43] <heno> and I've used it sucessfully
[06:44] <jdong> I +1 your mod rights to feisty forum
[06:44] <jdong> ubuntugeek will have to apply that when I talk to him later
[06:44] <jdong> ok, that takes care of the official agenda
[06:44] <heno> right
[06:44] <jdong> right?
[06:44] <PriceChild> jdong, could we also maybe have the forum council subforum on the frontpage?
[06:44] <vorian_> according to the wiki yes
[06:45] <jdong> PriceChild: that's stuff you talk to Ryan about :D
[06:45] <PriceChild> hehe ok
[06:45] <jdong> I don't like touching that part of admincp :D
[06:45] <PriceChild> will ask him later
[06:45] <jdong> there is one more thing I'd like to take this time to discuss....
[06:45] <PriceChild> jdong, what do you touch? ;)
[06:45] <jdong> PriceChild: I spent a good portion of yesterday reading vbulletin documentation
[06:45] <jdong> so I'm getting better darnit :)
[06:46] <vorian_> lol
[06:46] <PriceChild> he he i was only joking sorry :)
[06:46] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=330230
[06:46] <jdong> we still have this unaddressed res center thread
[06:46] <jdong> regarding where to draw the line with spamming
[06:47] <vorian_> it is borderline....
[06:47] <jdong> vorian_ indeed it is, but in this case the user seems to have good intentions at heart
[06:47] <jdong> and from that thread, he is cooperative
[06:47] <vorian_> agreed, I see no self promotion
[06:48] <vorian_> it is for the betterment of ubuntu
[06:48] <jdong> currently we have very weak/vague guidelines as to advertising vs spam
[06:48] <jdong> "If a thread is spam it will be moved to the forum jail."
[06:49] <vorian_> what about community market
[06:49] <vorian_> ?
[06:49] <jdong> vorian_ that says "please do not spam" :D
[06:49] <PriceChild> I think its best we leave it to staff's discression
[06:49] <jdong> aye, I think it should be left at the staff's discretion
[06:50] <jdong> I was thinking obtaining staff approval too
[06:50] <jdong> particularly low-bean-count people
[06:50] <heno> Perhaps let him re-post a slightly altered version, say without the '$$$'
[06:51] <heno> at some clause about good taste to border-line spam case decisions
[06:51] <heno> add, rather
[06:51] <jdong> right
[06:51] <jdong> I'm all for allowing tousimis to continue with his service
[06:53] <PriceChild> I'm happy with him also
[06:54] <jdong> so far I'm gonna reply to him that (1) He may continue promoting/developing/offering his service (2) Spam vs not spam decisions will be made on a per-case basis at the discretion of the staff member handling the thread (3) If you have low-bean count it's helpful to first clear it by PM'ing an administrator or staff member
[06:54] <jdong> any objections?
[06:54] <PriceChild> in addition to no. 1
[06:54] <PriceChild> the promoting in the appropriate subforum
[06:55] <PriceChild> and signature
[06:55] <jdong> (marketplace?)
[06:55] <PriceChild> yup
[06:56] <jdong> what currently happens when a user is banned?
[06:56] <jdong> are they unable to log in?
[06:57] <PriceChild> depends on the type of ban?
[06:57] <jdong> spam infractions?
[06:57] <PriceChild> that's just a ban on the name
[06:57] <jdong> the OP seems to state that he couldn't read his PM's?
[06:57] <jdong> once he was banned
[06:57] <PriceChild> yeah
[06:57] <jdong> heh
[06:57] <PriceChild> when you log in because of spam infraction you can't see aything
[06:58] <jdong> can you see your infraction notices
[06:58] <PriceChild> jdong, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=332163
[06:58] <PriceChild> Nope
[06:58] <jdong> and can you contact staff members for a rebuttal?
[06:58] <PriceChild> vorian_, sorry but you can't see that link
[06:58] <PriceChild> No
[06:58] <jdong> uhm, lovely :)
[06:58] <PriceChild> jdong, my issues with it were outlined int hat thread :)
[06:58] <vorian_> PriceChild: :)
[06:59] <jdong> ok
[06:59] <jdong> I think we need to refine the behavior of infraction-based bans
[06:59] <PriceChild> uip
[06:59] <jdong> but at a later meeting when all staff members are present
[06:59] <jdong> it simply doesn't make sense at the moment
[06:59] <PriceChild> jdong, arg rav tux has changed his avatar again lol :P
[07:00] <vorian_> hehe
[07:00] <PriceChild> ubuntugeek mentioned making another meeting within a week or two because of the approval of matthew and mikeb
[07:00] <PriceChild> we can sort things out then :)
[07:02] <PriceChild> So....
[07:03] <vorian_> jdong: Does this council have a launchpad entry?
[07:03] <jdong> vorian_: err i dont know :D
[07:03] <jdong> lol
[07:03] <vorian_> hehe
[07:03] <jdong> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1989441#post1989441 , my response
[07:04] <PriceChild> looks good :)
[07:04] <jdong> ok, anything further?
[07:04] <PriceChild> vorian_, not yet no
[07:04] <PriceChild> Im' happy :)
[07:04] <jdong> I'd like to play starcraft on my large screen
[07:04] <vorian_> jd
[07:04] <PriceChild> I'll post logs to the subforum and wiki
[07:05] <jdong> ok, PriceChild
[07:05] <jdong> and vorian_ gets to have fun too :D
[07:05] <PriceChild> seen as vorian_ got d/c and missed out bits :P
[07:05] <jdong> yep
[07:05] <jdong> ok, anything futher?
[07:05] <vorian_> PriceChild: thanks
[07:05] <jdong> can I bang the hammer thingie?
[07:06] <jdong> meeting is over, thanks to those who showed up and contributed
[07:06] <vorian_> thanks everyone!
[07:06] <jdong> next meeting scheduled.... err... whenever :)
[07:06] <vorian_> that will be a fun one
[07:06] <jdong> (we will likely have a follow-up meeting)
[07:06] <PriceChild> 13th of february
[07:06] <PriceChild> although there'll be one inbetween
[07:06] <jdong> PriceChild: yeah
[07:07] <jdong> anyway
[07:07] <jdong> we can hammer out the agendas later :)
[07:07] <jdong> alright, starcraft time :)
[07:34] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[07:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 09 Jan 15:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 06:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 14:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 14:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:05] <dennda> @schedule berlin
[08:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 09 Jan 22:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 21:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:37] <amachu> hi
[08:38] <amachu> its 1 AM
[08:38] <amachu> in India
[08:39] <licio> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[08:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 09 Jan 19:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 10:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 18:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 06:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:42] <emonkey> @schedule zurich
[08:42] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 09 Jan 22:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 21:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:43] <mr_pouit> @schedule paris
[08:43] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 09 Jan 22:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 21:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:44] <JoeyStanford> @schedule Denver
[08:44] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Denver: 09 Jan 14:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 05:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 13:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:45] <frederific> @schedule london
[08:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 09 Jan 21:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 20:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 08:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[08:52] <jrib> @schedule boston
[08:53] <jrib> @schedule new_york
[08:53] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/New_York: 09 Jan 16:00: Community Council | 10 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu | 11 Jan 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 16 Jan 15:00: Technical Board | 17 Jan 15:00: Edubuntu | 18 Jan 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[10:00] <ypsila> moin together from Germany
[10:01] <juliux> moin from east germany;)
[10:01] <kaffke> moin from west germany
[10:01] <TheSheep> moin from east (of) Germany
[10:01] <blizzzek> moin from south Germany
[10:01] <ypsila> :-D
[10:01] <atoponce> afternoon from the west of germany... wayyyy west. :)
[10:01] <jihi> moin from central gemany
[10:01] <popey> moin fron south of my desk
[10:01] <Zerlinna> *lol* moin from germany here too :D
[10:02] <Seveas> Let's hope the CC wakes up..
[10:02] <emonkey> good evening from switzerland
[10:02] <smurf_> Seveas: do you have mobile numbers?
[10:02] <Seveas> smurf_, no
[10:02] <juliux> hi smurf_
[10:02] <dennda> hi from germany as well
[10:02] <Seveas> emonkey, heh, I'll be in switzerland at the end of january
[10:02] <datten> moin :)
[10:02] <ubuntugeek> howdy all
[10:03] <glatzor> evening juliux and smurf_
[10:03] <emonkey> Seveas, nice in which area?
[10:03] <Seveas> geneva
[10:03] <MikeB-> greetings all
[10:03] <gnomefreak> dsas: welcome
[10:03] <emonkey> Seveas, ou at the other end of the country... :/
[10:03] <theravingsociety> good evening from munich ;-)
[10:03] <dennda> ah hi smurf_ :)
[10:03] <Adri2000> hi everyone
[10:03] <dsas> hi gnomefreak
[10:03] <Vorian_> hello all!
[10:04] <Lutin> hi there
[10:04] <mr_pouit> hi there
[10:04] <datten> so many krauts! O_O *g*
[10:04] <MehdiHassanpour> hi all
[10:04] <jacobmp92> hello all
[10:04] <mako> greetings all
[10:04] <Seveas> hey mako!
[10:04] <forumsmatthew> hello
[10:04] <juliux> hi mako
[10:05] <gnomefreak> hi mako and elmo
[10:05] <TheInfinity> ... hello
[10:05] <elmo> sabdfl is in a meeting still, I'll go interrupt him in a couple of minutes if he's still not free
[10:05] <mako> that's fine
[10:05] <frederific> evenin'
[10:05] <Zerlinna> hi kwwii :)
[10:05] <mako> i'm going to finish catching up on CC mail
[10:05] <gnomefreak> topic
[10:05] <kwwii> howdy Zerlinna ;-)
[10:05] <Seveas> elmo, cjwatson ack'ed as well so maybe we can get him on board?
[10:06] <elmo> nah, colin's been travelling to/from london today, he can't make it, unfortunately
[10:06] <Seveas> ah ok
[10:06] <Seveas> then we wait ;)
[10:07] <elmo> can we do anything in the meantime?
[10:07] <Seveas> "Dennis Kaarsemaker
[10:07] <Seveas> 
[10:07] <Seveas> Delegating membership approvals and fine-tuning the new member process
[10:07] <Seveas> This was discussed at UDS and I'd like to hear about the progress"
[10:07] <ypsila> let's have a drink together?
[10:07] <Seveas> basically: IS there progress?
[10:08] <Seveas> if not, then we should contonue discussion via e-mail, not in here I think
[10:08] <ubuntugeek> Hi
[10:08] <jenda> hello
[10:08] <mako> ubuntugeek: hola :)
[10:08] <datten> hi there GraveDigger :)
[10:08] <GraveDigger> hello there
[10:08] <GraveDigger> :)
[10:08] <ypsila> GraveDigger: nosy?
[10:08] <auge> Hello
[10:08] <GraveDigger> ypsila: with cheese?
[10:08] <MikeB-> any other Ubuntus in Las Vegas for CES?
[10:08] <elmo> mako: you want to take that one?
[10:09] <atoponce> no, but i wish i could've been there this year
[10:09] <elmo> oh, I know what we could do, even if Mark doesn't turn up, I checked out the threads on the two FC folks, and we can probably go forward with that
[10:09] <forumsmatthew> we are both here
[10:09] <forumsmatthew> me and MikeB
[10:10] <ubuntugeek> elmo: good
[10:11] <ubuntugeek> I'll also vouch for vorian's membership .. i gotta leave in 15 minutes :)
[10:11] <mako> elmo: sure
[10:11] <ubuntugeek> and also Zenwhen for his membership
[10:12] <mako> basically, memeberhip approval delegation had already happened
[10:12] <carlos> elmo: would be possible to handle 'Localisation / Translation Team Leader' position today? (Is the first time I attend this kind of meeting so I'm not sure the procedure too much...)
[10:12] <PriceChild> I'll vouch for Vorian_
[10:12] <mako> it happened with both kubuntu and edubuntu councils
[10:12] <ubuntugeek> mako: ok thanks fine.. is it possible todo the FC stuff today?
[10:12] <Seveas> PriceChild, please wait until that comes up in the agenda
[10:12] <GraveDigger> ypsila: of course i am
[10:12] <Seveas> mako, any other councils in the picture for delegation (xubuntu, forums etc...)?
[10:12] <GraveDigger> ypsila: i always am :>
[10:12] <mako> ubuntugeek: sure, if everything is set to go, that's fine.. if not, it'll be fint to talk
[10:13] <mako> Seveas: right
[10:13] <lophyte> hey folks
[10:13] <ubuntugeek> mako: yeah both people got overwhelming +1's so..
[10:13] <mako> so the goal of the proposal was to help document the process as it already existed
[10:13] <mako> ubuntugeek: great, then we're ready :)
[10:13] <mako> ubuntugeek: sounds good, we can do that first, or as soon as mark shows up
[10:14] <ubuntugeek> mako: ok thanks
[10:14] <LaserJock> Seveas: MOTU Council is just waiting on final approval of CC or TB (I think TB), I believe
[10:14] <mdke> I think further delegation of membership should have more discussion, isn't there an incomplete spec about it?
[10:14] <mako> Seveas: the goal was to codify/document the process and to expand it to more teams
[10:15] <mako> we've said we want to do it for the forums council as soon as we can get the council itself up to speed on our processes and standard for membership
[10:15] <mdke> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MembershipManagement)
[10:15] <JoeyStanford> mkde, yes there is a spec.
[10:15] <JoeyStanford> we worked on it at UDS MTV
[10:15] <mdke> s/incomplete/very incomplete
[10:15] <mako> we've also said we want to wait on the loco team council, but would like to soon
[10:15] <mako> mdke: it was documented as part of another spec i think
[10:15] <JoeyStanford> also related to the CC spec as well
[10:15] <JoeyStanford> Mako, you, I and other spoke in the big conf room about this
[10:15] <mako> i mean, it's probably incomplete there too :)
[10:16] <JoeyStanford> agreed
[10:16] <mako> anyway, it's something we're already doing, and would like to do more of
[10:16] <Seveas> ok, so discussing it now is rather pointless as it needs to wait for more work, right?
[10:16] <mako> so we should document it to make it easier to do so
[10:16] <mdke> I need to add my objections to increasing delegation further to that spec
[10:16] <OgMaciel> JoeyStanford: any more magazine articles?  ;)
[10:16] <mako> Seveas: i don't think there's a lot of discussion that needs, perhaps someone just needs to write it
[10:16] <Seveas> heh ok
[10:16] <Seveas> moving on then?
[10:16] <mako> unfortunately for me, that someone is probably me
[10:17] <mako> yes
[10:17] <MikeB-> mako: :)
[10:17] <Seveas> ok, forums council then (ubuntugeek has limited time)?
[10:18] <mako> so we have a quorate CC
[10:18] <Seveas> as soon as sabdfl arrives
[10:18] <Seveas> (cjwatson's not here)
[10:18] <LaserJock> sort of OT: have CC and TB nominations been done already?
[10:19] <Seveas> LaserJock, CC definitely not, TB is for the TB meeting
[10:19] <elmo> mako: I've checked with sabdfl, and he's happy for us two to finish the FC stuff
[10:19] <ubuntugeek> elmo: awesome
[10:21] <mako> elmo: great
[10:21] <mako> is matthew here?
[10:21] <forumsmatthew> I'm here
[10:21] <forumsmatthew> unstable connection, though
[10:22] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=317446 <- matthews thread
[10:22] <ubuntugeek> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=317445 <- mike's thread
[10:23] <mako> wow
[10:24] <mako> forumsmatthew, MikeB-: a little ego boost i suppose :)
[10:24] <ubuntugeek> See mako, we dont always select bad people .. hah
[10:25] <mako> ubuntugeek: hey man, i voted for them two weeks ago :)
[10:25] <MikeB-> lol, I bow before Matthew support. He is a true leader in the community
[10:25] <mako> great, +1 for both from me and for the procedure
[10:25] <forumsmatthew> MikeB-, :)
[10:25] <ubuntugeek> mako: Yeah I know.. :)
[10:26] <mako> elmo: ?
[10:26] <elmo> +1
[10:26] <Seveas> ok, awesome!
[10:26] <ubuntugeek> great
[10:26] <Seveas> congrats to both
[10:26] <ubuntugeek> glad thats completed
[10:26] <ubuntugeek> thanks all
[10:26] <forumsmatthew> thank you!
[10:26] <elmo> ok, so sabdfl finally got free, he's on his way home to join the meeting from there
[10:26] <MikeB-> thanks
[10:27] <Vorian_> congrats forumsmatthew and MikeB- !
[10:27] <Seveas> elmo, col
[10:27] <elmo> he should be here in 10 mins or so.  sorry about this
[10:27] <Seveas> cool even
[10:27] <ubuntugeek> grats mikeb and matthew
[10:27] <Seveas> we can do the translations bit without him
[10:27] <ypsila> no problem
[10:27] <Seveas> carlos is here
[10:27] <ubuntugeek> Ok i am out of here.. see you all later
[10:27] <carlos> hi
[10:27] <Seveas> amachu and Gwaihir as well :)
[10:27] <Gwaihir> hi all
[10:27] <mako> awesome
[10:28] <Zelut> MikeB-: congrats. now if we can get you to find some time for the Utah Team as well ;)
[10:28] <carlos> and OgMaciel (is not directly involved right now, but is interested in the discussion)
[10:28] <MikeB-> Zelut: my schedule should better soon
[10:28] <Seveas> carlos, so, what's the status, what do you want to get accomplished today?
[10:28] <jenda> congrats forumsmatthew, MikeB- :)
[10:28] <mako> yes, congrats forumsmatthew and MikeB-
[10:29] <carlos> well, I was asked to write the requirements from the point of view of Rosetta
[10:29] <mako> and THANK YOU ubuntugeek
[10:29] <ubuntugeek> np..
[10:29] <carlos> those are now in the wiki
[10:29] <rpereir1> forumsmatthew, MikeB-: congrats!
[10:29] <forumsmatthew> thank you everyone for your support!
[10:29] <ubuntugeek> btw, our first FC meeting went rather well today.. so yay!
[10:29] <mako> ubuntugeek: for your heroic patience with us, and of course for the forums :)
[10:29] <ubuntugeek> :)
[10:29] <ubuntugeek> thanks for putting up with me on those phone calls
[10:29] <ubuntugeek> :)
[10:29] <carlos> so I guess next step is to decide whether we can elect someone to take care of the position or ask for interested people on it
[10:30] <emonkey> uh netsplit :(
[10:30] <mako> i see the lack of a strong connection between the cc and forums as the single worst mistake that this group has ever made (except maybe not noticing the importance of the forums in the first place)
[10:30] <MikeB-> firnd netsplit I have seen on freenode
[10:30] <TheInfinity> yea! right moment ;)
[10:30] <ubuntugeek> mako: :)
[10:30] <ubuntugeek> mako: well hopefully we are overcoming that
[10:30] <mako> so this is really really good news :)
[10:30] <mdke> poor carlos!
[10:31] <mako> man, that puts me in a good mood
[10:31] <jenda> MikeB-: woohoo, enjoy - it's never quite like the first time.
[10:31] <MikeB-> lol
[10:31] <ubuntugeek> see ya all later
[10:31] <FeistyFawn> err ok
[10:32] <FeistyFawn> I keep getting disconnected :/
[10:32] <gnomefreak> netsplits
[10:32] <Seveaz> ah
[10:32] <gnomefreak> last time flood
[10:33] <carlos> hi
[10:33] <jacobmp92> @FeistyFawn: looks like there was a server split, i got disconnected also
[10:33] <carlos> I was disconnected
[10:33] <mako> alright
[10:33] <Seveaz> carlos: several of us were
[10:33] <carlos> so what's the last thing you got?
[10:33] <Seveaz> That you wrote things on the wiki
[10:33] <mako> "so I guess next step"
 so I guess next step is to decide whether we can elect someone to take care of the position or ask for interested people on it
[10:34] <Seveaz> well, 2 people have interest in that position, but how comfortable are we with someone who is not a developer doing these things?
[10:34] <carlos> Seveaz: that's not a developer position at all
[10:35] <carlos> Seveaz: the profile is for a translator
[10:35] <Seveaz> carlos: true, but the person in charge needs to know how the ubuntu development process works
[10:35] <carlos> of course, knowing how Ubuntu works is also a good thing
[10:36] <carlos> Seveaz: OgMaciel said that he would be also interested on helping there if it's a team of people instead of just one person
[10:36] <OgMaciel> yup
[10:36] <Seveas> I think having a team would be a good thing anyway
[10:36] <carlos> and I think, if he's interested, that would fit that requirement
[10:36] <carlos> Seveas: me too
[10:37] <mako> i think having a couple people would be ideal
[10:37] <OgMaciel> carlos: have the 2 other interested guys read the document you wrote?
[10:37] <carlos> amachu, Gwaihir?
[10:37] <OgMaciel> carlos: yup
[10:37] <OgMaciel> are they here?
[10:37] <Gwaihir> yes yes...
[10:37] <carlos> OgMaciel: well, I'm asking them because I don't know
[10:37] <OgMaciel> Gwaihir: ;)
[10:37] <Gwaihir> I'm rfollowing the discussion
[10:38] <OgMaciel> Gwaihir: maybe you should tell us what you think of it?
[10:38] <Gwaihir> I think that having a team of 2/3 people
[10:38] <Gwaihir> would be better
[10:39] <Gwaihir> and a easier work
[10:39] <Gwaihir> coordinating all the teams in rosetta could be hard
[10:39] <mdke> if it would be a question of a team of a few people, I would consider throwing in my hat to help
[10:39] <carlos> agreed
[10:40] <Gwaihir> I don't actually get really what the work would be
[10:40] <Seveas> Gwaihir, then why did you apply? :)
[10:40] <Gwaihir> but I don't think that "a developer experience" is neede
[10:41] <mako> Gwaihir: aren't you volunteering?
[10:41] <Gwaihir> Seveas: I did get it...
[10:41] <mdke> as I understand it, it's a question of establishing some guidance for teams to apply quality control and to liaise between teams and the developers on features in Rosetta
[10:41] <OgMaciel> mdke: yes
[10:41] <mako> mdke: yes, that's my understanding as well
[10:41] <carlos> mdke: I think so, yes
[10:42] <carlos> and poke us (Rosetta developers) to make your life more easy
[10:42] <Gwaihir> if that's the point... it's clear
[10:42] <mdke> Gwaihir has pretty good experience from that point of view from the italian team and working with Gnome upstream. he's active in the international Ubuntu translators community too.
[10:42] <JoeyStanford> For the record I like the idea of a rosetta translation lead for Ubuntu.  However, I am wondering if it's too much for one person.
[10:42] <OgMaciel> sounds good to me
[10:42] <carlos> so we have a single point of contact with Ubuntu translators
[10:42] <OgMaciel> JoeyStanford: my reason for "stepping down"
[10:42] <marola> hi people
[10:43] <JoeyStanford> Og: ah
[10:43] <Gwaihir> Joey: I think so too
[10:43] <mdke> what's the CC's role in this process? It sounds to me like carlos and danilo are probably the best people to take this forward
[10:43] <OgMaciel> JoeyStanford: this is defintely something a family guy wants to take on while having a full-time job  ;)
[10:43] <carlos> so I guess all agree in having a couple of persons in that position
[10:44] <OgMaciel> definitely noyt
[10:44] <Seveas> mdke, someone needs to be appointed and they have no idea who'd be suitable
[10:44] <mdke> Seveas: they = ?
[10:44] <carlos> mdke: well, CC asked us to assist you defining the requirements
[10:44] <sabdfl> evening all
[10:44] <sabdfl> sorry i'm late
[10:44] <Seveas> mdke, carlos & co, the launchpad people
[10:44] <Seveas> hi mark
[10:44] <mdke> I think it's more likely that carlos and danilo have a better idea of suitability, tbh
[10:44] <mako> mdke: i think tht carlos feels that having it be a cc appointed position will help make it more attractive
[10:44] <mako> sabdfl: not a problem
[10:45] <mdke> ah, sure. I can see that
[10:45] <JoeyStanford> mkde, I agree.
[10:45] <mako> sabdfl: we've put the forusm council issue to rest
[10:45] <mdke> but they need to drive this, IMO
[10:45] <MikeB-> evening Mark
[10:45] <JoeyStanford> mdke, I agree with that as well.
[10:45] <mako> sabdfl: matthew and mikeb had only positive responses (and lots of them)
[10:45] <carlos> and we don't think we should take the final decision, we are not even Ubuntu members, but we can assist you
[10:45] <OgMaciel> I think that if Gwaihir has all of these baggage someone (forgot who) said he has, he could most likely get this thing rolling
[10:45] <rpereir1> evening  Mark.
[10:45] <JoeyStanford> mkde, as long as it allows the Carlos and Danillo to free up and do real launchpad work.
[10:45] <mako> carlos: how about this, you've got a list of people who are interested and the idea that it might work in the team
[10:46] <Gwaihir> OgMaciel: maybe...
[10:46] <mdke> JoeyStanford: it's mDKe (for the hilight). But yeah, I was only referring to the question of taking the agenda item forward
[10:46] <mako> carlos: why don't you talk to them, make sure everyone understands what is necessary.. once you and the candidates have a situation that makes you (and hopefully them) happy, you tell us and we'll make it official
[10:46] <OgMaciel> Gwaihir: together with some more people
[10:46] <Gwaihir> OgMaciel: that's better ;)
[10:46] <OgMaciel> :)
[10:47] <OgMaciel> I agree with mako's idea
[10:47] <carlos> mdke, mako: Ok
[10:47] <carlos> I will handle that
[10:47] <mako> carlos: we've already done the first step of helping scare up candidates.. now i don't think there's anything we can do until you give us something we can make a decision on
[10:47] <OgMaciel> and the meeting can continue
[10:47] <mako> carlos: great :)
[10:47] <mako> carlos: cool! i'm looking forward to finishing thi sup
[10:47] <carlos> I guess there are 4 interested persons and three of them already agreed on working in a team
[10:47] <OgMaciel> :)
[10:47] <carlos> so it shouldn't be complicate
[10:47] <mako> carlos: sounds like you have a good idea of what to do
[10:48] <mako> great
[10:48] <mako> what's next?
[10:48] <carlos> ok
[10:48] <mdke> JoeyStanford: tab completion is your friend
[10:48] <carlos> thank you
[10:48] <Seveas> Wiki Licensing
[10:48] <Seveas> mdke has the mic
[10:48] <JoeyStanford> Matt, I'm on XP at work so no luck using besirc for that :-(
[10:48] <ypsila> :-(
[10:48] <mdke> I don't have much to say on WikiLicensing, except that it's 15 months old now, please approve it!
[10:48] <sabdfl> very pleased to see the discussion re forums council appointments, so +1 from me on those
[10:48] <carlos> OgMaciel, mdke, Gwaihir, amachu: I will send an email tomorrow about this to see whether we have an agreement, ok?
[10:48] <mako> mdke: i've read the spec, i like it
[10:48] <OgMaciel> carlos: sounds great buddy!
[10:48] <Gwaihir> carlos: ok!
[10:48] <mako> mdke: i think that at this point, CC-BY-SA is the only one that makese sense
[10:49] <mdke> the only outstanding item is whether it should apply to wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:49] <mako> +1 from me
[10:49] <mdke> I think it probably shouldn't
[10:49] <mdke> given all the code, artwork, etc likely to be found there, for which a more subtle approach is probably needed.
[10:49] <mdke> But I *really* need to get this sorted on the documentation wiki
[10:49] <jenda> mdke: meaning giving more flexibility on the wiki? (such as, allow people to specify licences of the content they add)
[10:50] <mako> mdke: i tend to think it should... but also think it doesn't matter and would be a bigger pain
[10:50] <mako> mdke: doesn't matter as much
[10:50] <forumsmatthew> sabdfl: thank you (re: forums council appointment...that was me)
[10:50] <mdke> mako: nod
[10:51] <Seveas> ok, so you baically just need elmo and sabdfl to give a +1?
[10:51] <mdke> the urgent need is to sort the documentation wiki out, I'm happy to discuss the main wiki another time
[10:51] <Seveas> (mako already did ;))
[10:51] <mdke> Seveas: hopefully yeah
[10:51] <sabdfl> mdke: i don't understand, you say that CC-BY-SA is *not* appropriate for wiki.ubuntu.com?
[10:52] <Seveas> sabdfl, the wiki contains more than docs (code, artwork) for which it may be less than appropriate
[10:52] <mdke> sabdfl: I'm saying it might not be, I don't know. I'm happy to be guided by the CC on that
[10:52] <sabdfl> ok, so this proposal is specifically the documentation wiki
[10:52] <sabdfl> i think it makes more sense to be a general "all ubuntu wiki's" proposal
[10:52] <sabdfl> an its possible to carve out images and code
[10:53] <sabdfl> CC-BY-SA for commentary, opinions
[10:53] <sabdfl> GPL for new code unless otherwise stated
[10:53] <Seveas> sabdfl, that could be done later, but mdke wants the doc wiki to move forward after 15 months standstill wrt this
[10:53] <LaserJock> one slight point would be that CC-BY-SA is not very good for me on wiki.u.c
[10:53] <sabdfl> Follow-on licence for code that extends an existing work (i.e. patches to BSD are BSD)
[10:53] <mako> i don't see any reason why images on the ubuntu wiki should be under less free licenses
[10:53] <mako> LaserJock: why is that?
[10:53] <sabdfl> nonetheless, i think it's inevitable that docs include some code, even if it's (da)sh
[10:54] <mdke> that's ok though, because it's just in the context of docs
[10:54] <LaserJock> mako: the Ubuntu Packaging Guide (which is GPL'd) relies a fair amount on stuff written in the MOTU wiki
[10:54] <LaserJock> mako: I could work around that I suppose, but I'd have to think about it
[10:55] <LaserJock> anyway, that's just one corner case
[10:55] <sabdfl> is Canonical the ultimate copyright owner, and thus able to grant exceptions?
[10:56] <mdke> debateable.
[10:56] <mdke> I wouldn't be very happy with any solution involving exceptions or carveouts to carry over to help.ubuntu.com/community though, it would be over complicated
[10:56] <mako> LaserJock: or you could relicense under CC-BY-SA, which isn't so bad
[10:57] <mako> sabdfl: no, probably not
[10:57] <LaserJock> mako: except I then become incompatile with debian docs
[10:57] <mako> LaserJock: ah, ok
[10:57] <LaserJock> mako: rewriting Debian Policy wouldn't be so much fun ;-)
[10:57] <mako> LaserJock: what do you mean, incompatible with being in debian or incompatible with a particular doc in debian you are syharing text with
[10:58] <LaserJock> mako: I use parts of Debian Policy
[10:58] <mako> LaserJock: oh, ok, and the license there is?
[10:58] <LaserJock> all Debian devel docs that I know of are GPL
[10:58] <mako> sabdfl: i agree that we should think about this for the main wiki
[10:59] <LaserJock> I mean, this is just one case, I can work it out whatever you guys decide. I just wanted to bring up that sometimes it gets tricky
[10:59] <mako> sabdfl: but mdke has been very patiently trying to get approval for the documenation wiki for a very long time and i don't think we're ready to make a decision on the main wiki today.. because of things like LaserJock's situation that we need to sort out
[10:59] <mdke> we can do a separate spec
[10:59] <mako> i think we should vote on this for the documentation wiki so that mdke can move forward today
[11:00] <mako> mdke: right, and then do a main wiki spec where we can hash out these issues
[11:00] <mdke> right, that's what I meant
[11:00] <mako> i'd like to do it, to have the two under compatible licenses and for a whole set of other issues
[11:00] <mako> but lets do the easy stuff today and identify the other issues for later
[11:01] <mdke> elmo, sabdfl?
[11:01] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me on CC-BY-SA for the documentation wiki, and thanks mdke for your patience :-)
[11:01] <mako> mdke: yes :)
[11:01] <elmo> fine by me
[11:01] <Seveas> great!
[11:01] <mako> brilliant
[11:01] <mdke> thanks very much indeed.
[11:02] <Seveas> mdke, good luck :)
[11:02] <mdke> did you see those 15 kilos fall off my mind over there?
[11:02] <rpereir1> :-)
[11:02] <mdke> :)
[11:02] <Seveas> Zerlinna, you're up next
[11:02] <Zerlinna> ok
[11:02] <mdke> the spec envisages another spamathon by me to let everyone know, so apologies in advance for that.
[11:02] <Seveas> (kubuntu-de mailinglist)
[11:02] <Zerlinna> Hi, my  name is Mirjam Wckerlin, I'm the team contact for the german-speaking Kubuntu Community at kubuntu-de.net
[11:03] <Zerlinna> By now, our community has over 5000 registered users, we maintain a forum, a package archive with up-to-date kubuntu-packages and the german translation of UWN (starting from UWN issue 25). So, de facto we're already working as a local Community Team, and that's why we would like to get official approval in order to provide even better support to our users. We have nothing against a collaboration with ubuntuusers.de, there is just
[11:03] <Zerlinna> also a need for a german kubuntu site to give the best support to our users and also to the kubuntu project. One of the first steps in becoming official is to get an kubuntu-cc@lists.ubuntu.com.
[11:03] <Zerlinna> I made the request for our team, but the response was rather negative: we were asked if we could produce enough specific traffic, and if we had considered using the ubuntu-de list. IMO it makes no sense to give kubuntu-specific support on an ubuntu-list. Especially for new kubuntu users it may be much easier to find the right place for support if we had our own list. If every Kubuntu Team has to argue and fight before even having a
[11:03] <Zerlinna> mailing list, I don't see a chance that there will ever be a Kubuntu Loco Team, which is IMO not only a big disservice for the kubuntu users but also for the project itself. This kind of chasing windmills is annoying for people who just want to do their work and will make a lot of valuable and active contributors from the community think about leaving.
[11:03] <mdke> Zerlinna: can you explain your teams' relationship with kubuntu.de?
[11:03] <mdke> for those of us who aren't up to speed
[11:03] <Zerlinna> mdke kubuntu.de is clearly not a community page, it is in fact the pendan to kubuntu.org. Myself I'm a member of kubuntu.de too, and I see no conflicts in kubuntu-de.net becoming a loco-team.
[11:03] <Seveas> Zerlinna, and with ubuntuusers.de (the official ubuntu locoteam)
[11:04] <mdke> Zerlinna: pendan?
[11:04] <kwwii> there is no connection with ubuntusuers.de until now
[11:04] <elmo> so, as the person who supplied the "rather negative" response, perhaps I should qualify
[11:04] <Zerlinna> mdke sorry missing t: pendant :)
[11:05] <Zerlinna> kwwii is right, though we have nothing against collaboration e.g. for translations
[11:05] <Seveas> Zerlinna, I find it rather odd that you'v started a new team and thus split the community
[11:05] <mdke> Zerlinna: I still don't get it. But there seem to be all sorts of support resources there, I don't understand having *two* german kubuntu teams (I can see your argument in favour of a separate mailing list, even if it's privately hosted)
[11:05] <Seveas> why didn't you collaborate from the start on?
[11:05] <mdke> let's hear elmo though
[11:05] <Zerlinna> Seveas: our team is not "new".. the forums exist for a pretty long time already
[11:06] <Seveas> Zerlinna, so did ubuntuusers.de ;)
[11:06] <kwwii> Seveas: the split had to do with the owner of that site, and his contributions and reluctance thereof more to do than anything
[11:06] <Zerlinna> mdke according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto#head-7e7cfbc9ee0c22e5397e25a27e8011afb5405f1a we need this list in order to become an official loco team one day
[11:06] <mako> kwwii: do those problems still exist?
[11:06] <kwwii> beleive me, we talked on the phone quite a few times trying to solve this
[11:06] <mdke> kwwii: that could have been resolved, rather than splitting
[11:06] <mdke> kwwii: maybe with the CC's help
[11:06] <kwwii> mako: no, he is happy to see things going this way
[11:06] <Seveas> kwwii, 'that site' being uusers.de or k-de.nt?
[11:06] <elmo> the sysadmins get a lot of requests for new mailing lists - when the request is for a i18n/loco list it's very hard for us to judge the need for such a list
[11:06] <kwwii> he is slowly moving away, for whatever reasons
[11:07] <kwwii> kubuntu.de
[11:07] <Seveas> ah
[11:07] <Seveas> amu
[11:07] <kwwii> exactly
[11:07] <Seveas> 'nuff said :)
[11:07] <mdke> elmo: I might say, I think it's wholly inappropriate that the sysadmins have to deal with these requests. Can Jono be tasked with filtering them first?
[11:07] <ypsila> we were faced to facts!
[11:07] <elmo> sorry, one second
[11:07] <kwwii> there is no internal fighting and we have worked everything out
[11:07] <mako> kwwii: that's great :)
[11:07] <kwwii> but moving forward after so many problems would be a good thing for us now
[11:08] <ypsila> absolutely
[11:08] <emonkey> kwwii, full ack
[11:08] <mdke> it seems to me the best thing to do would be to liaise with jono over this issue and ask him to request the mailing list when its resolved
[11:08] <ypsila> for the germanspeaking community!
[11:08] <mako> so the request is for a kubuntu-de list
[11:08] <elmo> sorry, so
[11:08] <mdke> there should be a first stage rather than bringing these things straight to the CC
[11:08] <Zerlinna> kwwii is right.. it's annoying that we can't get to work properly because of such things
[11:09] <kwwii> mako: yes, so that we can move ahead an create a loco team
[11:09] <Seveas> mdke +1
[11:09] <elmo> sometimes these requests come from a single solitary user, tho obviously that's not the case here, but it has happened before
[11:09] <mako> kwwii: and there isn't an existing kubuntu loco team
[11:09] <kwwii> this is an important step for us
[11:09] <elmo> (quite a few times)
[11:09] <mdke> (there was a loco meeting earlier today it could have been raised at)
[11:09] <kwwii> mako: no there is not
[11:09] <mako> mdke: yes, some of us are working on that with jono
[11:09] <Zerlinna> elmo yes but I provided you with a link to our community where you can see that we have a couple of thousands registered user...
[11:09] <elmo> so, we will question the need for these lists sometimes, but that's not a "negative" thing, it's just that a question
[11:09] <Seveas> kwwii, why do you desperately want to be seperate from the existing german locoteam?
[11:09] <kwwii> if we would have know about any other meeting we would have been ther
[11:09] <elmo> now, second of all
[11:10] <kwwii> Seveas: we are not seperating from anyone
[11:10] <mako> i think it would be a very good idea to try to work together with the ubuntu-de list where possible, but i don't see any problem with a list for a kubuntu-de loco
[11:10] <elmo> there's a problem with creating lists for every derivative and every loco team
[11:10] <mako> and can't imagine that there is another group who is more qualified
[11:10] <TheInfinity> and moving forward means concentrating on kubuntu and giving something like an "home" for kubuntu users. the problem is, that on ubuntuuser.de most times gnome is described - but its quite bad to present an user who is completely new to linux another desktop where he has to translate everything into "his" desktop
[11:10] <kwwii> Seveas: everyone has moved to a forum/list/site/wiki in which they can actually work
[11:10] <elmo> there's already potentially hundreds of loco teams and timings that by the number of derivative brings it to an unmanageable level
[11:10] <mako> Seveas: i think you're putting words in their mouth, they haven't said that
[11:10] <juliux> why do you need an extra list for around 60 mails on the old kubuntu-de list?
[11:10] <elmo> mailing lists are cheap resource, wise, but they're not free
[11:11] <kwwii> elmo: 5000 people working on one project is not what you are describing
[11:11] <smurf_> TheInfinity: true, but somehow that seems not to be a problem in any other country ..?
[11:11] <ypsila> excuse me, we war not talking about an german team, we are talking about a german speaking team, which means switzerland, austria, luxemburg, france, italy and others as well
[11:11] <elmo> so, yes, if we're asked for $derviative-$loco or -$i18n, we will question whether or not it needs to be $derivative-$loco and whether or not it couldn't be integrated into ubuntu-$loco
[11:11] <sabdfl> the KDE community is particularly strong in Germany
[11:11] <kwwii> juliux: mainly, the problems internally held us back
[11:11] <mako> there's a big community here, they want to start a loco, they need/want a loco list to do that..
[11:11] <sabdfl> so i'm not surprised to see this popping up first in Germany
[11:11] <glatzor> kwwii: but why do you need a separate loco team. as you already siad before having a mailing list would only be the first step
[11:11] <TheInfinity> kubuntu - was said - should be a distribution with first level support - thats not "one of several sub-distributions"
[11:12] <elmo> again, that's not negative, it's a simple question
[11:12] <kwwii> juliux: that is why we want to move on, and have already started to do so
[11:12] <mako> this is only really new because it's a kubuntu group seperate from an ubuntu group
[11:12] <kwwii> glatzor: no, it would be the last step for us
[11:12] <elmo> which could have been simply answered, rather than running to CC
[11:12] <sabdfl> in general i would be supportive of a kubuntu-xx.org loco team as long as there is an open and constructive relationship with the corresponding ubuntu group
[11:12] <mdke> sabdfl: it pops up in other countries, albeit not necessarily on as big a scale. well organised locoteams can have sub groups for derivatives and represent them well without fragmenting
[11:12] <mako> ideally, we'd have a relationship similar to the one between ubuntu and kubuntu
[11:12] <ypsila> sabdfl:  not only germany - germanspeaking countries we even do support to hungaria
[11:12] <aseigo> smurf_: fwiw i hear such annoyances rather regularly from many people, not specific to *buntu but in general. docu and aid that resembles precisely what you see is a good thing and desired by most
[11:12] <mako> which is that it's all one big family, but there are subgroups who concentrate on their parts
[11:12] <sabdfl> it's a failing of BOTH groups if that communication / collaboration isn't in place
[11:12] <kwwii> agreed
[11:12] <mdke> mako: ++ it's all about subgroups
[11:13] <sabdfl> so, +1 from me to the request
[11:13] <Zerlinna> sabdfl: as I mentioned we'd like to work together e.g. on translation
[11:13] <TheInfinity> thats why we thought about working together somehow - for example by translating things
[11:13] <sabdfl> i would ask that, if there are any flare-ups, they get brought to jono quickly, rather than festering, w.r.t. ubuntuusers.de etc
[11:13] <mako> mdke: i'm ok with seperate websites and stuff, we have them ubuntu, kubuntu
[11:13] <mdke> absolutely
[11:13] <Seveas> (evil idea: alias kubuntu-de@lists to ubuntu-de@lists :))
[11:13] <mako> what i would ask to the people here
[11:13] <juliux> Zerlinna, why do you have then your own expo team? with out any communication to the rest of the community?
[11:13] <mdke> ubuntu-fr does that particularly well, if I may say.
[11:13] <kwwii> a lot of the work is kde-centric of course, that is why need/want a loco team
[11:14] <mdke> very nice themed websites for derivatives
[11:14] <kwwii> juliux: the confusion in the transfer is what caused that
[11:14] <ypsila> juliux: the rest of the community does not communicate to us?
[11:14] <Zerlinna> juliux: actually we wanted to post an invitation for booth attendence in the uwn
[11:14] <mdke> juliux: you are from ubuntu-de, aren't you?
[11:14] <Zerlinna> +next
[11:14] <juliux> ypsila, from the expo team is every thing on public mailinglists and wiki pages
[11:14] <juliux> mdke, yes
[11:14] <kwwii> please realize that moving from amu's stuff to "our own" took a lot of work/time
[11:15] <kwwii> and patience
[11:15] <ypsila> juliux: no it is not
[11:15] <mdke> ok, so clearly there is a lack of communication between the two groups, maybe you can work on that too?
[11:15] <kwwii> all of this was discussed to an extent that everyone is happy with it, including amu
[11:15] <mako> so.. we're making the list.. what i would ask to kwwii and to other people involved here is:
[11:15] <juliux> ypsila, it is http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/Messen/
[11:15] <juliux> ypsila, since 2005
[11:15] <Yann2> mdke > what about ubuntufr?
[11:15] <mako> to talk to the ubuntuusers.de folks or whoever
[11:15] <mako> and to at the very least, link to and mention each other on your sites
[11:15] <mdke> Yann2: was paying you a compliment about the themed websites for derivatives
[11:16] <kwwii> juliux: and we can certainly work on that in the future and learn from your example and contribute to that
[11:16] <mako> and see if you can come to some agreement on a way to work together in certain areas (conferences maybe, etc) and maybe even to cut down on areas of redundancy
[11:16] <Yann2> oh, thanks :p (/me's not participating, but reading the interesting debate)
[11:16] <mako> i think it's in everyone's interest to do that
[11:16] <mdke> kwwii: that's the stuff!
[11:16] <Zerlinna> mako I have no problems with linking to uu.de.. we're doing it all the time on the forums for their wiki
[11:17] <kwwii> it is not that we want to run away, rather that we want to serve the contributors interests and work together with other like-minded people
[11:17] <ypsila> but we do have to take into consideration that we get more and more users from suse
[11:17] <mako> Zerlinna: right, it might be nice to do it from the header or something.. maybe have a little "k/ubuntu de community" icon with links to important sites
[11:17] <mako> to sort of tie it together
[11:17] <mako> just an idea
[11:17] <ypsila> and they are familiar with kde
[11:17] <Zerlinna> mako I can't take the decision for the whole team but personnaly I think we can make smt like this
[11:17] <Yann2> Zerlinna > btw, I would be glad to explain you how this is working on the french-speaking locoteam, if I can do something to get kubuntu-de.net and ubuntuusers.de to work together... :)
[11:17] <ypsila> mako: we already do that in daily irc e.g.
[11:18] <Zerlinna> mako of course collaboration has to come from the other side, too ;)
[11:18] <mdke> Yann2: rock
[11:18] <ypsila> Yann2: I would be happy about that!
[11:18] <TheInfinity> Yann2: this would be a great idea, yes
[11:18] <mako> Zerlinna: sure, understood
[11:18] <juliux> Yann2, cool
[11:18] <mako> ypsila: awesome
[11:18] <mako> i think that's settled
[11:18] <Zerlinna> Yann2: well, I know the french community.. they helped me to make the french translation of the kubuntu-flyer
[11:19] <mako> sabdfl and i both approved it and i think we know what do moving forward
[11:19] <Zerlinna> Yann2: I don't know if your model fits our needs but we can talk abou ti
[11:19] <Zerlinna> t
[11:19] <mako> so lets move forward as a meeting
[11:19] <Yann2> Zerlinna > just ping me after the end of the meeting ;)
[11:19] <mako> do we have folks from locos here?
[11:19] <mako> canada or iran?
[11:19] <tonyyarusso> lophyte: ping
[11:19] <lophyte> canada h ere
[11:19] <sabdfl> fire away
[11:19] <MehdiHassanpour> Im here from iran
[11:20] <mako> ok
[11:20] <sabdfl> lophyte: go ahead
[11:20] <mako> lophyte: shoot
[11:20] <lophyte> from what Corey has told me, -ca has already been up for approval before the CC, but our roadmap needed revising..
[11:20] <lophyte> so I present our latest revised application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/ApprovalApplication
[11:21] <tonyyarusso> I think there may have been some clarification conversations with jono as well?  Not sure.
[11:21] <lophyte> I'm not sure either
[11:21] <lophyte> the Toronto chapter of the Canadian team is currently working on an Install Fest event scheduled for march break
[11:22] <sabdfl> nice logo!
[11:22] <lophyte> thanks :)
[11:22] <sabdfl> all looks good to me
[11:22] <zenwhen> hello all
[11:22] <sabdfl> do you think it's on a firmer footing this time around?
[11:22] <lophyte> definitely
[11:23] <lophyte> we're really rocking in Toronto, and Corey's been leading things well in Victoria
[11:23] <tonyyarusso> (especially if we can pull Corey back away from the new gf to get work done...)
[11:23] <lophyte> hehe
[11:23] <mdke> what's your relationship with the quebec team?
[11:23] <JoeyStanford> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ca
[11:23] <gnomefreak> hes heading to calgary
[11:23] <mdke> (curiosity)
[11:23] <mdke> I noticed it's a separate team
[11:23] <lophyte> mdke: I'm not sure.. as far as I know they're separate
[11:23] <lophyte> Corey would be better suited to answer that question, as he's been around longer
[11:24] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Some of their members hang out in #ubuntu-ca and the Canada ML, and are sort of cross-members, presumably with the bulk operating separately (mostly b/c of language).
[11:24] <lophyte> indeed
[11:24] <tonyyarusso> People like MagicFab are active in both, among others.
[11:24] <mdke> would be cool to get a good relationship with them
[11:24] <lophyte> sfllaw too, I think
[11:25] <tonyyarusso> yeah, him too
[11:25] <MagicFab> Yeah
[11:25] <MagicFab> Quebec contributes to the -ca roadmap
[11:26] <MagicFab> We're mostly organizing around documenting and of course having install-fest-type events etc. and having a model that other chapters can use
[11:26] <MagicFab> Can't stay long, meeting :(
[11:26] <Seveas> mako, elmo: any comments?
[11:27] <MagicFab> I got all the staff at the montreal office to join -qc too :)
[11:27] <lophyte> indeed, dinner is starting in a few minutes here
[11:27] <tonyyarusso> CA and QC also talk to each other about events like SFD, although whether we can get those lined up is unclear so far.
[11:27] <sabdfl> ok, all looks nice and neat to me, +1
[11:27] <mako> looks good to me +1
[11:27] <elmo> sorry, can someone remind me what was the problem last time?  just the roadmap?
[11:27] <mako> MagicFab: cool :)
[11:27] <MagicFab> elmo, yes, roadmap
[11:27] <elmo> ok, +1 then
[11:27] <MagicFab> gotta go
[11:28] <sabdfl> MehdiHassanpour: your turn!
[11:28] <lophyte> excellent
[11:28] <lophyte> thanks for your time guys :)
[11:28] <MehdiHassanpour> thanks
[11:28] <MehdiHassanpour> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IranianTeam/ApprovalApplication
[11:28] <MehdiHassanpour> is our approval app
[11:29] <MehdiHassanpour> our team has worked alot on customizing and localizing web app we needed
[11:29] <MehdiHassanpour> we have good active forums now
[11:30] <MehdiHassanpour> and had good docs since Ubuntu 5.04
[11:31] <MehdiHassanpour> they were in our older wiki and now are migrating to wiki.ubuntu-ir.org
[11:31] <sabdfl> lophyte: good work so far, thanks, an good luck!
[11:31] <elmo> MehdiHassanpour: could you proivde links to some of the websites mentioned in the 'experience' section?
[11:31] <MehdiHassanpour> yep
[11:31] <popey> elmo: linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IranianTeam
[11:32] <MehdiHassanpour> they are all in hezardastan.org
[11:32] <elmo> oh, ok
[11:32] <MehdiHassanpour> http://www.hezardastan.org/ubuntu5.04
[11:32] <elmo> well arabic script sure does look purty ;-)
[11:33] <MehdiHassanpour> not arabic, persian :)
[11:33] <sabdfl> interesting
[11:33] <sabdfl> is that farsi, in an arabic script?
[11:33] <sabdfl> or is it a dedicated farsi script?
[11:33] <MehdiHassanpour> arabic & farsi
[11:33] <lophyte> thanks sabdfl
[11:34] <MehdiHassanpour> they are complete guides for all newbies
[11:34] <mako> wow, pretty awesome
[11:34] <JoeyStanford> excellent
[11:34] <MehdiHassanpour> thanks
[11:35] <mako> you've got 88 members to date?
[11:35] <MehdiHassanpour> since 28 October 2006
[11:35] <mako> wow, you'll break 100 soon then
[11:35] <mdke> FWIW, maybe not strictly relevant to approval of the team, but my experience with MehdiHassanpour is that he is a great person to lead this team, he is an excellent Ubuntero :)
[11:36] <sabdfl> looks very good to me
[11:36] <Seveas> mdke, I agree
[11:36] <MehdiHassanpour> we didn't had these web app before 28 October 2006
[11:36] <mako> MehdiHassanpour: are there other lugs and such you've worked with?
[11:36] <MehdiHassanpour> thanks mdke
[11:36] <mako> are other distributions popular in iran?
[11:36] <MehdiHassanpour> for other distros ?
[11:36] <sabdfl> mehdi, thanks for your leadership, +1 from me to the loco team
[11:36] <mako> MehdiHassanpour: sure, but also just about gnu/linux in general
[11:37] <MehdiHassanpour> no
[11:37] <MehdiHassanpour> nothing
[11:37] <MehdiHassanpour> we have some local distros
[11:37] <MehdiHassanpour> yes
[11:37] <mako> so this is the first distro team to you knowledge in iran?
[11:37] <MehdiHassanpour> irantux.com
[11:37] <MehdiHassanpour> gnuiran.org
[11:37] <mako> ah, cool
[11:38] <MehdiHassanpour> we have some global lugs
[11:38] <mako> very exciting
[11:38] <mako> MehdiHassanpour: thanks for all your hard work
[11:38] <mako> jenda: good suggestion
[11:38] <MehdiHassanpour> thank you mako
[11:38] <Seveas> it
[11:38] <Seveas> it's late in iran, he'll appreciate it
[11:38] <mako> membership appoitnsments are up.. so it might make sense to do look at MehdiHassanpour's app
[11:39] <mako> MehdiHassanpour: when youre ready, please ahead with the normal introduction
[11:39] <Seveas> so iranianteam is approved now?
[11:39] <MehdiHassanpour> we will have a Linux desktop book soon, based on ubuntu
[11:39] <MehdiHassanpour> I'm its main author
[11:40] <mako> Seveas: pending elmo's stamp, i guess
[11:40] <elmo> +1
[11:40] <MehdiHassanpour> :)
[11:40] <Seveas> well, there we go :)
[11:41] <Seveas> MehdiHassanpour, please give us your personal introduction for your membership application
[11:41] <MehdiHassanpour> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mehdi
[11:44] <mdke> I've worked with MehdiHassanpour several times about translation of documentation and general loco matters, he is a great asset to the community, works well with people and is an all round nice guy. Sorry for being repetitive
[11:44] <Seveas> MehdiHassanpour, too bad I can't read arabic/persian/farsi/whichever it is
[11:44] <Seveas> but it looks impressiv
[11:44] <Seveas> MehdiHassanpour, whe did you start all this?
[11:44] <MehdiHassanpour> many thanks mdke
[11:45] <elmo> MehdiHassanpour: (roughly) what are the extra packages homa installs?
[11:45] <MehdiHassanpour> I'm an ubuntu user since warty
[11:45] <MehdiHassanpour> all multimedia codecs
[11:45] <MehdiHassanpour> fonts
[11:45] <mako> everything i've seen looks good
[11:45] <MehdiHassanpour> it has many packages
[11:45] <mako> i'm happy with MehdiHassanpour for membership
[11:46] <elmo> MehdiHassanpour: ok
[11:46] <MehdiHassanpour> thanks mako
[11:46] <elmo> +1 from me too
[11:46] <sabdfl> +1 from me for MehdiHassanpour
[11:46] <sabdfl> welcome aboard!
[11:46] <MehdiHassanpour> these are the packages Multimedia edition has
[11:46] <MehdiHassanpour> http://wiki.hezardastan.org/Homa/HomaEdgy/Multimedia
[11:46] <mdke> welcome MehdiHassanpour  :)
[11:46] <MehdiHassanpour> Oh, many thanks sabdfl
[11:47] <MehdiHassanpour> thank you mkde
[11:47] <MehdiHassanpour> mdke
[11:47] <mako> great, whose next?
[11:47] <rpereir1> May I go?
[11:47] <Seveas> sebastean didn't show up
[11:47] <Seveas> nor did xoper
[11:47] <gnomefreak> rpereir1: we are going in order
[11:47] <Seveas> so you're up rpereir1
[11:47] <gnomefreak> ok
[11:48] <rpereir1> Hello, I'm Pereira. My complete name is Rodrigo Pereira Braga. I'm an university professor in Brazil. My contributions to ubuntu are translations, bugs report and triage, and support to other users (on brazilian e-mails list, minas gerais (my state in brazil) e-mails list and #ubuntu). I started to package two (maybe three) programs for Ubuntu now: Archimedes - CAD program, SyncEvolution (Sync Evolution with SyncML Calendars o
[11:48] <rpereir1> I'm trying to contribute on developing hardware drivers for brazilian winmodem. Many of my student don't use Ubuntu because in Brazil some residencies just have dialup connections.
[11:48] <rpereir1> Details are availiable on my wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pereira . Any questions ?
[11:50] <Seveas> are there any ubuntu-br members here to cheer for rpereir1 ?
[11:50] <sabdfl> how is the evo sync stuff in terms of quality and completeness?
[11:50] <OgMaciel> Seveas: unfortunately, the 2 guys who know rpereir1 are not here
[11:51] <rpereir1> Not very good. I'm trying to work in it and send the chages upstream.
[11:51] <rpereir1> changes.
[11:51] <rpereir1> But it works very welll....
[11:51] <rpereir1> I'll have to create a script to autoconfigure and maybe and interface to sync.
[11:52] <elmo> rpereir1: how long have you been using/contributing to ubuntu?
[11:52] <rpereir1> I'm using/contributing  since 2005 April... (5.04).
[11:52] <mako> Mario Meyer left a contribution on the wiki
[11:53] <JoeyStanford> FWIW, I have seen email posts and IRC discussion from Pereira over the last 3 months. That's the extent of my knowledge.
[11:53] <rpereir1> I started on my state e-mail list....
[11:53] <rpereir1> Minas Gerais...
[11:53] <OgMaciel> #ubuntu-br-mg  ;)
[11:53] <rpereir1> And in my University forum...
[11:54] <elmo> +1 from me
[11:54] <OgMaciel> rpereir1: are you involved with any Edubuntu projects in Minas?
[11:54] <mako> yes, +1 form me, this all looks very good
[11:54] <mako> it would be ideal to have more people show up to give testimonials
[11:54] <rpereir1> http://groups.google.com/group/RedesEstacioBH in portuguese....
[11:54] <mako> but i appreciate that you had them added to the wiki
[11:55] <Seveas> 2 out of 3 done, not bad :)
[11:55] <rpereir1> I'm starint a project with Edubuntu in a poor community in my city.
[11:55] <sabdfl> thanks rpereir1, +1 from me, and welcome
[11:55] <rpereir1> starting
[11:55] <Seveas> welcom rpereir1 !
[11:55] <OgMaciel> congrats rpereir1
[11:55] <rpereir1> Thanks very much.
[11:55] <mdke> good job
[11:55] <OgMaciel> ;)
[11:55] <Seveas> mehdi has already been approved
[11:55] <rpereir1> For everyone.
[11:55] <Seveas> jason can't make it, his grandfather passed away
[11:55] <mdke> rpereir1: if you're interested in helping with documentation for winmodems, perhaps you can give me your email address. We need some help badly
[11:55] <Seveas> dsas, you're up
[11:56] <dsas> My main contribution is with bug triage, which I've been doing a while but stepped up my efforts last June or so. I'm also part of the UKTeam where I help out in various ways. Links: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeanSas launchpad.net/~dsas
[11:56] <Seveas> bug triaging king!
[11:56] <Seveas> karma over one billion
[11:56] <mdke> dsas has sent several patches to documentation, and helps out generally with docs bugs and email, he's good!
[11:57] <Seveas> no,I misread
[11:57] <Seveas> but it's still insanely high
[11:57] <popey> +1 from me for dsas. He is a demon with bug triage, is a great support analyst on the support ticket system, and he is very friendly and welcoming on irc.
[11:57] <gnomefreak> god i hoped so Seveas
[11:57] <Seveas> popey, only cc members vore
[11:57] <popey> sorry, yeah, knew that :)
[11:57] <Seveas> gnomefreak, it wouldn't have surprised me if he had over a billion
[11:57] <Seveas> he does a LOT of work
[11:57] <mdke> Seveas: sent you a /query
[11:57] <gnomefreak> he does do alot of work but hell 1 million is very hard to get
[11:57] <sabdfl> wow
[11:58] <LoudMouthMan> Nik Butler sasy Dsas is the link between UKTeam activity and much of the Documentaton acitivty and wiki so hes a BIG help to us.
[11:58] <Seveas> gnomefreak, he's at 10 mill
[11:58] <gnomefreak> thats 10 million :(
[11:58] <gnomefreak> omg
[11:58] <JoeyStanford> Karma:  10011469
[11:58] <Seveas> yes, omg indeed
[11:58] <sabdfl> dsas: what is your malone wishlist?
[11:59] <Seeker`> Dsas is really helpful
[11:59] <dsas> uhm, to be easier to use, I'm still not convinced that it's obvious how to change the status for example.
[11:59] <frederific> he is IMMENSELY, he's never off #ubuntu-uk, and he's helped me out a good few times
[12:00] <frederific> (helpful)
[12:00] <dsas> I've had to point out how to do that to a few people in #ubuntu-bugs now
[12:00] <sabdfl> +1 from me on the basis of a very clear sustained contribution
[12:00] <sabdfl> and dsas, please help us make it better!
[12:00] <mako> yes, it all looks very great
[12:00] <mako> dsas: thanks for all of your work
[12:01] <dsas> thanks :)
[12:01] <Seveas> elmo, ?
[12:01] <elmo> +1
[12:01] <popey> \o/ dsas
[12:01] <Seveas> welcome dsas !
[12:01] <Seveas> it's about time ;
[12:01] <Seveas> ;)
[12:01] <popey> Welcome to the club :)
[12:01] <dsas> sweet, thanks everyone.
[12:01] <gnomefreak> welcome dsas
[12:01] <mdke> well done dsas, welcome aboard
[12:01] <Seveas> BuffaloSoldier, you're up
[12:01] <LoudMouthMan> congratulations dsas.
[12:01] <LaserJock> congrats dsas
[12:01] <Yawner> congrats dsas :)
[12:02] <BuffaloSoldier> Thanks Seveas
[12:02] <Seeker`> congrats dsas
[12:02] <BuffaloSoldier> Hello, my name is Firdaus Aziz, I use the handle "BuffaloSoldier" in UbuntuForums. I have been an Ubuntu user since November 2004 and have been a regular UbuntuForum users since the same time. At the begining my main contribution was helping with users that are new to Ubuntu/Linux. People in the forums where very friendly and helpful when I first started, that's why I decided to contribute back especially to newcomers to lin
[12:02] <BuffaloSoldier> ux. Starting March 2006 I have been given the honor to serve as a moderator there.
[12:02] <BuffaloSoldier> My near-future plan is promoting ubuntu/edubuntu to high schools and colleges in Malaysia and to work closely with relevant organization (Malaysian Education department). Being an Ubuntu member would help me very much when dealing with people especially government organization. My wiki is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirdausAziz
[12:03] <sabdfl> in future, forums staff will automatically qualify for membership if they want
[12:03] <Seveas> BuffaloSoldier, can you please give us a link to your forums profile
[12:03] <jenda> BuffaloSoldier has been an important part of the mod squad on the ubuntuforums. He handles users very well, too.
[12:03] <Seveas> ah nvm ,it's on your page :)
[12:04] <sabdfl> BuffaloSoldier: can you tell us how things are settling down in the forums since we discussed ForumsGovernance?
[12:05] <BuffaloSoldier> personally i think it's too early to tell, i think it will be sometime before the end-user that visits the forums starts to notive anything
[12:05] <zenwhen> I came here to cheer for BuffaloSoldier as well. He has been a wonderful person to work with during my time as an Ubuntu Forums staff member.
[12:06] <Vorian_> I am cheering for BuffaloSoldier as well, he is always very helpful!
[12:06] <sabdfl> ok, looks like a substantial and sustained contribution to me
[12:06] <sabdfl> +1 from me on BuffaloSoldier
[12:06] <mako> any other testimonials from forums people?
[12:07] <mako> your contributions on the forums look fantastic
[12:07] <manicka> BuffaloSoldier, has always been a great contributor and moderator at the forums
[12:07] <mako> +1 from me
[12:07] <elmo> +1 from me too
[12:07] <Seveas> nice!
[12:08] <Seveas> welcome aboard!
[12:08] <Seveas> zenwhen, you're up
[12:08] <jenda> Congratulations, Buffy! ;)
[12:08] <Vorian_> congrats BuffaloSoldier !
[12:08] <zenwhen> My contributions to the community are as follows: I have been an active member of the ubuntuforums.org staff for well over a year. I also started #ubuntuforums, which is the the freenode IRC channel used by the ubuntuforums community. (which I would like to work on getting made official)
[12:08] <mdke> welcome BuffaloSoldier
[12:08] <BuffaloSoldier> thanks everyone :)
[12:08] <zenwhen> My wiki page / application can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zenwhen
[12:08] <zenwhen> welcome BuffaloSoldier
[12:08] <Seveas> zenwhen, the IRC channel as official as it gets already - do you ned something else?
[12:08] <rpereir1> welcome BuffaloSoldier
[12:08] <zenwhen> My forums profile can be found here: http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=1543
[12:09] <zenwhen> Mainly, just to see you say that. :)
[12:09] <Seveas> zenwhen, I thought I already had, sorry :)
[12:09] <zenwhen> That is settled, then.
[12:10] <jenda> zenwhen has been a great help both within the forums and the #ubuntuforums IRC channel.
[12:10] <Vorian_> I'm here to cheer for zenwhen, he is a treasure trove of knowledge and support!
[12:12] <Seveas> other forums staff want to cheer as well?
[12:12] <BuffaloSoldier> I am here to cheer for zenwhen, he's very knowledgable and very supportive of new users
[12:13] <sabdfl> november 2004, pretty early into the game ;-)
[12:13] <sabdfl> how many forums staff are there currently?
[12:13] <zenwhen> Yes. I jumped on the right boat.
[12:14] <Seveas> sabdfl, afaik 3
[12:14] <Seveas> with a load of mods
[12:14] <sabdfl> +1 from me for zenwhen on the basis of long participation and staff membership in forums
[12:14] <zenwhen> 35 or so mods
[12:14] <manicka> all mods are considered staff Seveas
[12:14] <Seveas> manicka, ok
[12:15] <jenda> sabdfl: full list https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuforums-staff
[12:15] <jenda> (I hope it's up to date, taht is)
[12:15] <elmo> +1 from me
[12:15] <Seveas> mako, how about you?
[12:16] <mako> sorry, +1
[12:16] <mako> i'm glad we had a chance to get to you
[12:16] <Seveas> likewise
[12:16] <jenda> (Actually, it seems the newest 3-5 staff members aren't on there, I'll prod the admins)
[12:16] <Seveas> mlind, you're up
[12:16] <zenwhen> Thank you all so much!
[12:16] <Seveas> zenwhen, congratulations!
[12:16] <mako> jenda: sure :)
[12:16] <mlind> okay, shooting
[12:16] <rpereir1> Congrats zenwhen
[12:16] <mlind> Greetings to all, my name is Matti Lindell, 25 year-old student of computer science from Finland.
[12:16] <mlind> Ubuntu caught my interest back in days when I was looking an alternative for Fedora. I started as Breezy user and was hooked ever since :) I use Ubuntu daily on my personal computer and also on my work. I work part-timely on a local mid-sized software company as J2EE sofware developer and we use mainly Ubuntu on our servers&workstations.
[12:16] <mako> i'm going to need to leave pretty soon.. i have a talk i'm scheduled to give