[12:23] <mdke> elmo: still awake?
[12:24] <elmo> mdke: unfortunately
[12:24] <mdke> elmo: I can restrict that wiki page, if you give me the wikiname of the relevant user you think should have access
[12:25] <ogra> elmo, btw, seems all my mails to edubuntu-devel are swallowed ... 
[12:25] <elmo> eh, you can?
[12:25] <elmo> ogra: yes, I know
[12:25] <mdke> elmo: yes
[12:25] <elmo> ogra: mail RT - I'll hack on mailman in the morning
[12:25] <mdke> or rather, I think I can.
[12:25] <ogra> elmo, so its not a misconfiguration or something ? 
[12:26] <mdke> elmo: I seem to recall myself and henrik being hardcoded as admins on that wiki
[12:26] <elmo> ogra: no - the mails are being swallowed and there's no useful reason given
[12:26] <elmo> mdke: ah, yeah, looks like someone is
[12:26] <ogra> RichEd maintained the MLs for the last few months ... he might have changed a setting 
[12:26] <elmo> mdke: I didn't realise ACLs were enabled
[12:26] <Riddell> Mithrandir: all three kubuntu alternate CDs are good
[12:26] <ogra> ok, i'll file an RT
[12:27] <elmo> mdke: anyway - |I don't know who should have access, that's why I was asking you ;-)
[12:27] <mdke> elmo: oh. I thought it would be a sysadmin
[12:28] <elmo> mdke: well, see the problem is moin ACLs are about as useful as a burred screw driver
[12:28] <Laser_away> lol
[12:28] <elmo> mdke: if you already have admin powers, then it might as well be you
[12:28] <elmo> because admin powers are binary in moin
[12:28] <elmo> you either have them for the whole site, or you don't
[12:29] <elmo> short of chattr +i-ing the file on disk, I can't stop you editing the page, IYSWIM
[12:29] <mdke> elmo: beneath that it can be page by page though, right?
[12:29] <elmo> mdke: no, it can't
[12:29] <elmo> mdke: anyone with 'admin' privs can change the perms on a page
[12:29] <mdke> yes, that's right
[12:30] <mdke> elmo: who is hardcoded in there? Is newz too?
[12:31] <elmo> mdke: whoever's listed on the 'AdminGroup' page
[12:31] <elmo> so you and newz
[12:32] <mdke> hmm.
[01:09] <ogra> Keybuk, still around ? 
[01:17] <Keybuk> ogra: what's up?
[01:17] <ogra> Keybuk, cjwatson said he approved ltsp 0.130 but i dont see it on LP anywhere 
[01:17] <ogra> could you have a look ?
[01:19] <Keybuk> he did indeed approve it
[01:19] <ogra> strange ...
[01:19] <Keybuk> why?
[01:19] <Keybuk> publisher is on manual
[01:19] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp doesnt show it anywhere
[01:19] <Keybuk> it won't actually get processed until Mithrandir runs it
[01:19] <ogra> oh
[01:19] <Keybuk> standard procedure during releases
[01:20] <ogra> can you do it ? so i can trigger my CDs tongiht or is that an exclusive Mithrandir thing ? 
[01:21] <Keybuk> no, Mithrandir holds a lock on the publisher
[01:21] <Keybuk> if he's not here to check, I won't run it in case he's deliberately got it on manual
[01:21] <Keybuk> and if here's here, he can run it :)
[01:22] <ogra> well ...
[01:22] <ogra> Mithrandir, ping, please trigger a build of ltsp, needed for new edubuntu install isos
[01:23] <ogra> Mithrandir, ltsp 0.130, sorry
[03:29] <lifeless> mdz: around ?
[03:29] <mdz> lifeless: yes
[03:29] <lifeless> got time for a short chat ?
[03:45] <RedStamp> hello
[03:53] <RedStamp> If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried
[04:54] <jdong> is there any way to coerce/bootstrap ubiquity into unpacking into a filesystem that I already mounted?
[04:54] <jdong> just for fun I'm gonna attempt a Ubuntu install into ntfs-3g
[04:54] <jdong> because I managed to get a minimalist embedded linux setup working out of NTFS
[04:56] <mjg59> It's possible
[04:56] <mjg59> Just miserable
[04:56] <mjg59> Oh, i see what you mean
[04:56] <mjg59> jdong: best wait for Colin to wake up
[05:09] <jdong> mjg59: yeah, it's too late for me, too... worst comes to worst I'll just manually install it
[05:10] <jdong> next question... how do I modify the initramfs script that finds/mounts the root?
[05:10] <jdong> where is that script located and what is the safest way to edit it
[05:34] <keescook> jdong: would a direct debootstrap work for that?
[05:35] <lifeless> jdong: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/
[05:35] <lifeless> jdong: thats where the initramfs is built from 
[05:35] <jdong> keescook: yeah but then I don't get the fully configured base system :)
[05:36] <jdong> unless there's another way to activate the hostname and such 
[05:36] <jdong> heck I'll just rsync an existing installation
[05:36] <keescook> jdong: really?  I mean, I guess I haven't tried it too much, but installing ubuntu-desktop always seemed to work.  :)
[05:36] <jdong> is rsyncing / on the livecd and removing casper equivalent to ubiquity? :D
[05:36] <jdong> lifeless: thanks
[05:36] <keescook> heh, dunno.  :)
[05:36] <lifeless> jdong: no
[05:37] <lifeless> (the rsyncing / question)
[05:37] <lifeless> jdong: on the livecd, / is not the cd root
[05:37] <lifeless> jdong: its a unionfs of the squashfs from the cd rom
[05:38] <jdong> right, but for all intents it's a bootable ubuntu environment, right?
[05:38] <lifeless> jdong: errr
[05:38] <lifeless> jdong: FSVO 
[05:38] <lifeless> jdong: check /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper to see whats involved in mounting / on it
[05:39] <jdong> ok
[05:39] <jdong> then I shall just untar one of my root backups onto an ntfs drive :D
[05:41] <jdong> one more crackpot question....
[05:42] <jdong> is it technically feasible to have initramfs pivot_root into a subdirectory of a filesystem, if I don't feel like partitioning to dual boot?
[05:42] <lifeless> jdong: probably via bind mounting
[05:42] <jdong> i.e. install feisty into /feisty, then modify initramfs to treat /mnt/feisty as /
[05:42] <jdong> yeah, bind-mount home and the typical virtual fs'es
[05:42] <jdong> but it looks good in my head :D
[05:43] <jdong> something keeps on saying in the back of my head that it's a stupid idea though
[05:43] <lifeless> why are you doing this ?
[05:43] <jdong> lifeless: I'm working on a bold and reckless idea of installing linux to a pre-existing NTFS drive via ntfs-3g
[05:44] <jdong> like install ubuntu to c:\Linux and use LILO to boot off it
[05:44] <jdong> that cuts out the "I don't ubuntu because I don't wanna partition" excuse
[05:44] <lifeless> scarwee
[05:44] <jdong> lol yes
[05:44] <jdong> does the initramfs environment have an awk or something like that?
[05:45] <jdong> I wanna modify root=/dev/foo syntax to support root=/dev/foo:/Linux
[05:45] <jdong> an arbitrarily specified subdirectory
[05:45] <jdong> maybe I should use a separate rootsubdir=/Linux option instead...
[05:48] <jdong> the scariest part is ntfs-3g doesn't have any permissions support.... other than mounting the entire drive with a uid/gid/umask
[05:48] <jdong> that'll likely ruin the practicality of this and just make it a digg story :D
[06:51] <fabbione> morning
[06:52] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione!
[07:00] <mneptok> arr!
[07:06] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if we are still in time, that partman-base upload will allow to install on Niagara again. thanks
[08:18] <pitti> Good morning
[08:18] <Hobbsee> heya pitti 
[08:19] <fabbione> pitti: do you have any clue on what's generating this error: end from FAM server connection
[08:19] <fabbione>  ?
[08:19] <fabbione> i can see it on some apps like gthumb or gtkam
[08:20] <fabbione> when i save stuff in ~/Desktop they don't appear anymore
[08:20] <pitti> fabbione: uh, fam? that's so prehistoric
[08:20] <fabbione> or remove and they don't disappear
[08:20] <fabbione> pitti: yeah but i have ubuntu-desktop installed
[08:20] <pitti> fabbione: never saw it, and gnome doesn't use either fam or gamin any more
[08:20] <fabbione> and i am 100% sure i didn't play with anything there
[08:20] <pitti> fabbione: hm, no idea; I assume it is not a translatable string we could grep for
[08:21] <fabbione> Binary file libfam.so.0 matches
[08:21] <fabbione> Binary file libfam.so.0.0.0 matches
[08:21] <fabbione> Binary file libgamin-1.so.0 matches
[08:21] <fabbione> Binary file libgamin-1.so.0.1.8 matches
[08:21] <fabbione> well something is still using it
[08:21] <fabbione> let's figure
[08:22] <pitti> fabbione: where did you see that, .xsession-errors?
[08:22] <fabbione> xterm
[08:23] <fabbione> pitti: there is tons of stuff that still depends on libgamin0
[08:23] <fabbione> directly/indirectly
[08:23] <fabbione> After unpacking 240MB disk space will be freed.
[08:23] <fabbione> Do you want to continue [Y/n] ? 
[08:24] <fabbione>  |libgnomevfs2-0
[08:24] <fabbione>   libgamin-dev
[08:24] <fabbione>   gamin
[08:24] <Hobbsee> fabbione: yes, not all of the kde stuff ever got rebuilt
[08:24] <fabbione> these 2 looks
[08:24] <fabbione> Hobbsee: rebuilt with what? i didn't follow the transition
[08:24] <fabbione> if there was any
[08:24] <Hobbsee> fabbione: rebuilt to lose the dep on libgamin0
[08:25] <fabbione> ok
[08:26] <Amaranth> i once rebuilt my desktop to not need libgamin0
[08:26] <Amaranth> it's like 3 packages
[08:26] <Amaranth> apparently less now, just gnomevfs
[08:27] <Amaranth> there is a problem with removing gamin
[08:28] <Amaranth> right now all the polling happens in the gam_server
[08:28] <Amaranth> when you use gnomevfs to do it each app does it on their own
[08:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: uh, do we really use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/Ubuntu? that looks so empty
[08:28] <Hobbsee> pitti: i believe we're migrating there/
[08:28] <Hobbsee> ?
[08:29] <pitti> I meant, using the pages for herd-2 testing
[08:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: that's the idea, yes.
[08:33] <Mithrandir> but I need to build a new desktop before it's meaningful to test it.
[08:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: I got network back and stuff is rsyncing; as usual I grab powerpc and some amd64?
[08:33] <fabbione> Mithrandir: can we get the new partman-base in?
[08:33] <pitti> oh, good warning; alternates are ok?
[08:33] <Mithrandir> pitti: I think so, I haven't had the time to test any yet.
[08:34] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I'm looking at it now.
[08:34] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks.
[08:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, I start with alternate
[08:34] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if we can't .. ok.. i will just netinstall as soon as you unleash it
[08:34] <fabbione> but it's not in initrd
[08:34] <fabbione> so we don't need new d-i
[08:34] <fabbione> just cd rebuild
[08:35] <Mithrandir> fabbione: and it seems like sparc is the only one bitten (though I think the code's buggy on all arches)
[08:36] <Mithrandir> so I'll just rebuild sparc.
[08:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: if that's possible it would be wonderful
[08:36] <Mithrandir> everything's possible.  Impossible stuff just takes a little bit more time.
[08:36] <fabbione> acutally only Niagara is bitten but the code is randomically buggy
[08:36] <fabbione> or better
[08:36] <fabbione> Niagara was the first to show the bug
[08:36] <Mithrandir> yeah
[08:37] <fabbione> if you want i also have the kernel patch to debug that stuff :P
[08:37] <Mithrandir> heh.
[08:37] <Mithrandir> anyway, publisher running.
[08:37] <fabbione> danke
[08:37] <Mithrandir> that should give ogra his ltsp fix too.
[08:37] <Hobbsee> hey Mithrandir 
[08:38] <Mithrandir> good morning Hobbsee
[08:40] <carlos> pitti: hi, I had to run again language pack script
[08:40] <carlos> pitti: I will ping you once it's finished
[08:40] <carlos> ok?
[08:40] <pitti> carlos: ah, thanks
[08:47] <pitti> Mithrandir: what's the correct source package for d-i keyboard selection? cdebconf-keystep?
[08:48] <Mithrandir> probably console-setup
[08:48] <Mithrandir> depending on what the bug is
[08:49] <pitti> Mithrandir: the keyboard autodetection in d-i gives me Japanese if I press keys for U.S.
[08:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm pretty sure I already filed a bug about it last time, but I'd like to check
[08:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:58] <Mithrandir> live ISOs building.
[09:19] <dholbach> Mithrandir: heya Tollef - the alacarte upload is not urgent
[09:20] <dholbach> Mithrandir: how's it going? how's your dog?
[09:20] <Amaranth> dholbach: it is if you've got the new gnome-menus
[09:20] <dholbach> Amaranth: we don't have them yet
[09:21] <Amaranth> alright, so we still have a settings.menu file
[09:21] <dholbach> yes
[09:21] <Amaranth> that was my worst release ever
[09:21] <Mithrandir> dholbach: he's fun.  He keeps doing minor mischief, but he's absolutely lovely.
[09:21] <dholbach> come on... we all survived :)
[09:22] <Mithrandir> dholbach: I'm sure you can see him in Oslo
[09:22] <dholbach> Mithrandir: sounds like you trained him quite well already - my dog was a pain at that age :)
[09:22] <Mithrandir> dholbach: Karianne's a good handler.
[09:22] <Mithrandir> ok, -desktop/-live images up for all arches.
[09:22] <Mithrandir> and distros
[09:23] <dholbach> oh... so you're not the dog's handler? :)
[09:23] <Mithrandir> no, I just play with him and spoil him. :-)
[09:23] <dholbach> I can imagine that quite well: Tollef's home 4:00 in the morning, dog is scratching on the door and wants to get out, Tollef: "Oh no, it's your dog."
[09:24] <dholbach> ;-)
[09:24] <Mithrandir> dholbach: today he didn't even wake us with scratching on the door.  He's tended to do so before (we just stopped having him in the cage during the night)
[09:25] <dholbach> woohoo
[09:25] <Mithrandir> and I've certainly been taking him out in the mornings, but he's still Karianne's dog.
[09:25] <Mithrandir> publisher running (partman-base and ltsp binaries)
[09:25] <carlos> pitti: ready
[09:26] <dholbach> right :)
[09:41] <heno> sfllaw: around?
[09:42] <dholbach> hey heno
[09:42] <dholbach> how's it going?
[09:43] <heno> dholbach: dude, we've got 30+ testing volunteers in the forum: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=335481&page=4
[09:43] <heno> how do we organise that? :D
[09:43] <dholbach> WOAH
[09:43] <dholbach> good question :-)
[09:43] <heno> SIMON!
[09:44] <dholbach> I suppose he's asleep :)
[09:44] <heno> It would be nice to get help from some experienced testers in here, MOTUs perhaps
[09:44] <dholbach> we usually use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current - but that might confuse people a bit :)
[09:45] <heno> I'm sure the testing quality will vary, but it's important to make a start on this IMO
[09:45] <heno> dholbach: we don't want to flood that at this critical time
[09:46] <heno> I wrote instructions here http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=331123
[09:46] <heno> they will post results in the forum
[09:46] <dholbach> right
[09:46] <heno> but someone needs to collate from there
[09:51] <Hobbsee> heno: good job for the forum ambassadors, but i dont think they'll be decided in time
[09:53] <heno> Hobbsee: yeah, this will be a bit of a trial run I think (Herd 2)
[09:53] <Hobbsee> heno: they havent seemed to get their group together at all
[09:53] <Hobbsee> heno: would be a good trial run though
[09:58] <heno> yep
[10:15] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you tell us when new live ISOs are ready?
[10:16] <Mithrandir> 09:22 < Mithrandir> ok, -desktop/-live images up for all arches.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> I haven't updated the wiki yet, going to now
[10:16] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sparc ubuntu-server building
[10:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: oops, lost that in the dog conversation; thanks
[10:17] <fabbione> Mithrandir: thanks
[10:19] <Mithrandir> Riddell: your -desktop images are ready.
[10:20] <Mithrandir> fabbione: and done.
[10:22] <somerville32> Are the Xubuntu images ready?
[10:23] <Mithrandir> xubuntu live images are ready, yes.
[10:23] <dholbach> Mithrandir: the icon-naming-utils and human-icon-theme uploads are not urgent either
[10:24] <Mithrandir> I think the alternates are good too, but a test of them would be nice.
[10:24] <Mithrandir> somerville32: ^^ that was to you
[10:25] <Mithrandir> dholbach: what about libgnome and evince?
[10:25] <somerville32> Mithrandir, thanks :] 
[10:25] <fabbione> Mithrandir: and thanks :)
[10:25] <dholbach> Mithrandir: libgnome neither - for evince you'd need to ask evince - i didn't read the NEWS file
[10:25] <dholbach> Mithrandir: ask seb128 of course
[10:26] <Mithrandir> dholbach: ok.  Since he hasn't prodded me, I blissfully assume they're not needed.  I'd really like to avoid a rebuild now.
[10:26] <seb128> Mithrandir: nothing is urgent, they are GNOME 2.17.5 late tarball and "nice to have", having them after herd is fine though
[10:27] <seb128> I assumed that you would prefer do no change at this point
[10:27] <seb128> that's why I didn't ask :)
[10:27] <pitti> Mithrandir: btw, http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/unapproved-queue/feisty/ doesn't seem to work
[10:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: yeah, thanks.
[10:28] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'll investigate
[10:28] <seb128> np
[10:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: not urgent, but thanks
[10:29] <Mithrandir> pitti: should be fixed in about 30 seconds when my crontab runs.
[10:30] <Mithrandir> (I shuffled my dotfiles on rookery around, something which meant that ~/dotfiles/ssh got g+w which makes ssh exceedingly unhappy)
[10:30] <Mithrandir> pitti: there.
[10:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: rock
[10:30] <Mithrandir> thanks for noticing.
[10:31] <somerville32> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/feisty/ doesn't seem to exist. Where are the Xubuntu herds being placed?
[10:32] <Mithrandir> somerville32: in that directory.  IIRC, nobody cared to test the xubuntu herd 1 images
[10:33] <somerville32> There were individuals - I remember them actually doing it in x-devel
[10:33] <somerville32> They must have have just used a daily build
[10:34] <somerville32> Mithrandir: Will we be getting it for this herd?
[10:37] <Mithrandir> somerville32: if somebody tests it and tells me that it works, yes.
[10:38] <Mithrandir> somerville32: I just don't want to release images I have no idea if works or not. :-)
[10:38] <somerville32> Of course :] 
[10:39] <Mithrandir> ogra: fresh images for ya
[10:39] <ogra> Mithrandir, i fear that wont help me ...
[10:39] <ogra> cjwatson, ping ...
[10:40] <Mithrandir> ogra: why not?
[10:40] <somerville32> Mithrandir: So, just test daily*/current/ and if all is good then you'll release herd 2?
[10:40] <Mithrandir> somerville32: yes.
[10:40] <ogra> well, i suddenly have the -generic kernel on my i386 install iso ... that doesnt work
[10:41] <Mithrandir> ogra: that's a terrible error description.
[10:41] <ogra> whn i discussed it with colin a while back he told me for i386 alternate that wouldnt change
[10:41] <Mithrandir> somerville32: and if stuff's broken
[10:41] <Mithrandir> somerville32: and if stuff's broken, we fix and respin
[10:41] <somerville32> Awesome.
[10:41] <ogra> Mithrandir, ltsp needs the i386 kernel ...
[10:43] <somerville32> Whos is Henrik?
[10:44] <Mithrandir> somerville32: heno 
[10:44] <ivoks> a king
[10:44] <somerville32> heno: Could you please edit your post to include Xubuntu?
[10:45] <Mithrandir> ogra: well, you have  * Kernel-Version: 2.6.19-7-generic
[10:45] <Mithrandir> hmm
[10:45] <Mithrandir> that checkout must be ancient
[10:45] <ogra> where are ou looking at ? 
[10:45] <ogra> *you
[10:45] <ogra> my i386 iso includes 2.6.20 here
[10:46] <Mithrandir> you're using 2.6.20-5-generic in your installer seed.
[10:46] <Mithrandir> is that what you want?
[10:46] <Mithrandir> hmm, that's probably just the udebs
[10:46] <ogra> well, i#d love to but i dont have the space for two kernels 
[10:46] <ogra> so i fear the server has to run -386 as well ...
[10:48] <ogra> read: no, thats not what i want under the current circumstances ....
[10:49] <Mithrandir> that'd require another d-i, I think.
[10:50] <Mithrandir> or another d-i flavour.
[10:50] <cjwatson> jdong: ubiquity on existing filesystem> you'd have to hack /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/validation.py to remove the relevant check
[10:51] <cjwatson> jdong: actually, not sure if that'd work if it was already mounted; it might still hate you without further hacking
[10:51] <pitti> ogra: out of curiosity, why are all other kernels named -generic, and the ltsp one i386?
[10:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: because ltsp needs to run on hardware from the last ice age, so -generic won't work.
[10:51] <ogra> pitti, the i386 one has 486 compatibility (at least it used to have that)
[10:52] <pitti> oh, ouch
[10:52] <ogra> AMD Geode CPUs are *not* from the last iceage ! ;)
[10:52] <ogra> neither are most of these VIA thingies :)
[10:52] <cjwatson> pitti: it's on keymapper
[10:53] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks, will check bug there
[10:53] <Mithrandir> ogra: well, close enough. :-)
[10:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'd hope not, no.
[10:54] <ogra> cjwatson, will a seed change suffice or does that need a d-i hack as well ? 
[10:54] <cjwatson> ogra: I mailed ubuntu-devel announcing the switch to -generic; I suggest you catch up on that
[10:55] <cjwatson> ogra: are you *sure* the -generic kernel doesn't work on your hardware?
[10:55] <ogra> cjwatson, we dicussed that after your mail, remember ? 
[10:55] <ogra> no, i'm not
[10:55] <cjwatson> why not try?
[10:56] <ogra> well, i can ... 
[10:56] <cjwatson> we do have a d-i flavour that does 386, but only for netboot at present
[10:56] <ogra> BenC, already up ? 
[10:56] <cjwatson> it seems unlikely at this time
[10:56] <ogra> cjwatson, i'd ike to hear soething from a kernel guy about that 
[10:56] <cjwatson> I think it will be considerably quicker for you to try it yourself than to wait for Ben to wake up
[10:57] <cjwatson> ogra: a seed change will not suffice; it would need extensive changes
[10:57] <cjwatson> both d-i and debian-cd
[10:58] <cjwatson> so I'd much prefer that if possible -generic be made to work
[10:58] <ogra> the 386 kernel sets CONFIG_M486=y
[10:58] <ogra> the generic one has CONFIG_M586 instead
[10:59] <Treenaks> ogra: -generic kernels don't work on via cpu's.. -386 kernels do
[10:59] <cjwatson> ogra: you say you don't have space for the -386 kernel, but your i386 CD is at 682MB
[10:59] <ogra> yeah, just checking that ...
[11:00] <ogra> hmm ...
[11:00] <cjwatson> hmm, but linux-image-2.6.20-5-386 is 22MB
[11:03] <cjwatson> I assume you haven't tested any of your daily builds for the last month, if you only noticed it now ...
[11:03] <ogra> i only tested ltsp chroot builds ... 
[11:03] <ogra> no isos 
[11:04] <ogra> ... and indeed am bitten by the two only bugs i get with the isos ...
[11:04] <cjwatson> fabbione: please commit your partman-base changes to bzr
[11:04] <ogra> cjwatson, you were right with your guess for the debconf setting to be at fault btw ...
[11:05] <cjwatson> yeah, I saw your comment
[11:05] <ogra> (indeed)
[11:05] <ogra> :)
[11:05] <fabbione> cjwatson: oh.. sure.. what branch is it? 
[11:05] <cjwatson> fabbione: it's listed on BzrMaintainedPackages
[11:05] <fabbione> cjwatson: roger
[11:06] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I suspect the only way to fix ogra's issue is to switch the Edubuntu install CDs back to the 386 kernel, which requires at least a d-i upload to create a cdrom/386 flavour, debian-cd hacking to use it, and seed changes
[11:06] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: what's your opinion?
[11:07] <ogra> cjwatson, well, after the second CD is split out (which i plan to do durng the sprint) i will have space for two kernels ...
[11:07] <cjwatson> so since it will be solved otherwise for feisty, there's also the option of not releasing the i386 Edubuntu install CD with this milestone
[11:08] <ogra> there is just not much i can drop at the moment
[11:08] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: release-note it or drop the alternate edubuntu CD.
[11:08] <ogra> well, then i wont get much testing, i386 is the most intresting arch ...
[11:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: ^^ your call?
[11:09] <ogra> Mithrandir, i'm trying to find something i can drop
[11:09] <cjwatson> you could release note it as the LTSP server option not working
[11:09] <ogra> well 
[11:09] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, that's what I meant.
[11:09] <ogra> lets just switch ltsp to -generic for now ...
[11:10] <ogra> and revert that once i have sace for the kernel ... even though that means i might have some installs out there that might not boot
[11:10] <ogra> s/sace/space/
[11:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok, your choice.  When can you have it uploaded?
[11:10] <ogra> five minutes ... i need to change a line in ltsp
[11:11] <cjwatson> needs a release note anyway of course since it's a regression on some hardware
[11:11] <cjwatson> fabbione: (partman-base change as committed upstream looks fine to me ...)
[11:11] <fabbione> cjwatson: it's the same commit.. but it was urgent and couldn't really wait a sync
[11:12] <fabbione> otherwise Niagara is doomed
[11:12] <gicmo> seb128: hey hey
[11:13] <fabbione> cjwatson: commited in bzr... Committed revision 35.
[11:13] <cjwatson> ta
[11:13] <fabbione> cjwatson: sorry i didn't notice the branch before
[11:13] <seb128> gicmo: hey!
[11:17] <seb128> gicmo: Alter! 
[11:17] <gicmo> ALTER
[11:17] <seb128> :)
[11:17] <cjwatson> fabbione: most of the installer's in bzr now, so it's worth checking by default
[11:17] <cjwatson> (as opposed to some months ago when you probably had a <50% chance)
[11:17] <dholbach> heno: I'll push ~dholbach/bughelper/bughelper.dev to ~bugsquad/bughelper/bughelper.main - ok?
[11:17] <pitti> hmm, expert install with LILO doesn't boot
[11:17] <ogra> Mithrandir, ltsp 0.131 uploaded
[11:17] <dholbach> heno: (no changes since my last mails)
[11:18] <fabbione> crap
[11:18] <fabbione> i forgot a line change in os-prober
[11:18] <fabbione> oh well
[11:18] <fabbione> it can wait
[11:18] <fabbione> screw solaris :)
[11:18] <fabbione> cjwatson: yeps.. thanks but i hope these to be the last installer hacks i need to do for a while :)
[11:21] <cjwatson> grr, ubiquity new partitioner is broken as uploaded
[11:22] <fabbione> cjwatson: are you going to upload a new ubiquity?
[11:22] <fabbione> if so can i slam an os-prober change too?
[11:22] <cjwatson> I wasn't planning to, unless Mithrandir wants it
[11:23] <fabbione> ok
[11:23] <fabbione> it's not important or urgent for me.. just nice to have
[11:23] <cjwatson> you can commit the os-prober change to bzr though ;-)
[11:23] <fabbione> i already did
[11:23] <Mithrandir> fabbione: we're not at a "nice to have" stage now, so no.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: uh, how broken?
[11:23] <Mithrandir> ogra: accepted; publisher running
[11:24] <ogra> thanks !
[11:24] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yup.. no problem at all. i would have just abused the same publisher run for ubiquity :)
[11:24] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: edit dialog breaks. --new-partitioner isn't the default yet though
[11:25] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok, not something we need to have fixed then.
[11:25] <cjwatson> right
[11:27] <Mithrandir> ogra: you're testing the -live images, right?
[11:27] <ogra> just doing that now, yes
[11:27] <poningru> working on herd2 release notes
[11:27] <Mithrandir> poningru: yay, great.
[11:27] <poningru> need some help
[11:28] <poningru> what was added etc.
[11:28] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyFawn/Herd2
[11:28] <Mithrandir> poningru: read the -changes list from herd 1.
[11:28] <seb128> poningru: GNOME 2.17.5
[11:29] <poningru> wtf hehe dont know how that became 2.17.4
[11:29] <seb128> :)
[11:29] <seb128> poningru: I can have a look and pin-point some of the nice change they made for 2.17.5 if you want
[11:30] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: i386 is somewhat unhappy in hw-detect since it's trying to modprobe i82365 about five hundred zillion times, but it continues after a little while.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: do you have a bug about that or do you want it filed?
[11:30] <poningru> seb128: that would be greatly appreciated :)
[11:30] <poningru> thank you
[11:30] <seb128> poningru: np, I'm just rebooting to try something and I'll have a look to that next
[11:36] <sivang> is there a quick way to know which class an instance is made of in python ? I just want to know the immediate one and not further ancestors
[11:36] <sivang> anyone idea?
[11:37] <Mithrandir> >>> f = file("/etc/passwd")
[11:37] <Mithrandir> >>> type(f)
[11:37] <Mithrandir> <type 'file'>
[11:37] <Mithrandir> >>> f.__class__
[11:37] <Mithrandir> <type 'file'>
[11:37] <Mithrandir> any of those?
[11:38] <iwj> __class__ is TRT I think.>>> a.__class__
[11:38] <iwj> <class __main__.Fred at 0xb7dbfdac>
[11:38] <iwj> >>> a.__class__ == Fred
[11:38] <iwj> True
[11:38] <Mithrandir> iwj: yeah, looks like it.
[11:40] <sivang> iwj: yep, exactly what I was looking for , thank you!
[11:40] <sivang> Mithrandir: thanks as well :)
[11:42] <fabbione> Mithrandir: IF and only IF we need to rebuild alternate/server iso, please allow silo-installer in. Or as soon as you release.. at least netinstall's will not fart on 3rd reboot
[11:43] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it was wrong parsing of an OBP value (boot-device) and it was set with an insane useless string
[11:47] <doko> sivang: isinstance(f, file)
[11:51] <heno> dholbach: ok, please do
[11:51] <sivang> doko: I wanted actually to have a string of the class name, which class_name = (str(self.__class__)).split(".")[1]  does beautifully :)
[11:52] <dholbach> heno: done... i'll hopefully start soon on implementing the xml stuff
[11:54] <pitti> cjwatson: if you have a minute, can you please have a quick look at bug 78777 and tell me whether you might need any more info (before I wipe the install)?
[11:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78777 in debian-installer "amd64/expert install fails to boot (no root fs)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78777
[11:55] <fabbione> pitti: did you use LVM or raid?
[11:55] <pitti> fabbione: no
[11:55] <sivang> doko: but thanks anyway
[11:55] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[11:56] <pitti> argh, ubiquity fails on 'wipe entire disk' on both of my boxes
[11:59] <ogra> pitti: could we hide /target from teh desktop while ubiquity installs ? 
[12:00] <pitti> ogra: please file a bug against gnome-vfs2 and assign it to me; I'll have a look
[12:00] <ogra> great ...
[12:00] <pitti> but it would be an ugly hack
[12:00] <ogra> hmm
[12:00] <ogra> i dont think its critical ... but its a bit ugly ...
[12:00] <Mithrandir> pitti: what's the bug for your wipe disk?
[12:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: have you had lvm on the disk before?
[12:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: no lvm, 'assert self.extra_choice is not None
[12:01] <seb128> poningru: 
[12:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: on both ppc/real hardware and amd64/vmware
[12:01] <seb128> - control-center: Make volume up/down keys affect default channel of the applet 
[12:01] <seb128> - gedit: detect external file modifications
[12:01] <seb128> - gnome-system-tools: time-admin redesigned GUI
[12:01] <seb128> - vino: display a notification bubble on connection
[12:01] <seb128> - epiphany-browser: adblock manager UI
[12:01] <seb128> - gnome-media: add mp3 profile and make profiles being listed only if the elements for them are available
[12:01] <seb128> - gnome-utils: Add an "interactive mode" to gnome-screenshot
[12:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: :-(
[12:01] <poningru> ooh grazi
[12:01] <seb128> sorry for the flood
[12:01] <seb128> poningru: some of changes from GNOME 2.17.5
[12:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, I'm through with amd64 desktop+alternate, although resizing was never offered to me
[12:28] <lifeless> gnight
[12:31] <somerville32> Would it be right to say that if a package is in Main, then it supported officially by Canonical?
[12:31] <somerville32> *it is
[12:31] <fabbione> somerville32: s/by Canonical//
[12:31] <fabbione> it's supported by Ubuntu
[12:32] <somerville32> Right
[12:32] <fabbione> some developers for main are not employed by Canonical
[12:32] <fabbione> and still provide support for their pkgs
[12:32] <somerville32> So it would be ludicrous to suggest that Xubuntu isn't supported by the core-dev team since all of Xubuntu's packages are in main?
[12:33] <fabbione> what's the context?
[12:33] <somerville32> "Yes, of course feel free to test Xubuntu as well (or any other derivative). The core dev team has traditionally not focused on testing it because we don't officially support it."
[12:34] <fabbione> well the xubuntu main developer is a core-dev last time i checked...
[12:34] <somerville32> Right
[12:34] <somerville32> There are 2-3 core-devs who actively contribute to Xubuntu
[12:34] <fabbione> and Canonical doesn't support xubuntu is slightly different
[12:35] <fabbione> clearly if i get a bug for the kernel or glibc from xubuntu, it's still a bug
[12:35] <fabbione> but if i get assigned a bug for xfce.. well that's Xubuntu devel business
[12:35] <fabbione> me as fabbione as part of core-dev
[12:35] <fabbione> if you get the point
[12:36] <somerville32> So, Canonical doesn't "support" Xubuntu?
[12:36] <somerville32> Not referring to the fact that they build our ISOs, host our website, etc.
[12:38] <fabbione> somerville32: no Canonical doesn't support Xubuntu directly last time i checked.
[12:38] <fabbione> tho if things did change while i was in vac.. well
[12:38] <somerville32> They do support us directly though
[12:38] <somerville32> They build our ISOs, they host our website, etc.
[12:38] <fabbione> it's 2 different kind of support we are talking about
[12:38] <somerville32> Right
[12:39] <somerville32> They don't "sell" support
[12:39] <somerville32> Or not yet atleast?
[12:39] <fabbione> C. doesn't.
[12:39] <mvo> is there something like sh -x for perl? 
[12:40] <fabbione> mvo: you wish :P
[12:40] <pitti> mvo: perl gets compiled, would be hard to do
[12:41] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu live is fine on all arches
[12:41] <fabbione> mvo: printf is your best friend
[12:41] <heno> somerville32: see my answer here: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1997725
[12:43] <Mithrandir> mvo: PERLDB_OPTS="AutoTrace NonStop" and perl -d
[12:43] <pitti> oh, neat
[12:45] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks!
[12:48] <carlos> pitti: did you check whether latest langpack export is correct?
[12:49] <pitti> carlos: has it finished?
[12:50] <carlos> pitti: yeah, I told you it around 3 hours ago...
[12:50] <pitti> carlos: oh, sorry
[12:50] <carlos> pitti: don't worry
[12:52] <pitti> carlos: yup, looks good
[12:52] <carlos> pitti: we got around 100 new files
[12:54] <somerville32> heno, I am reading the thread you linked to. It appears several people out of the handful of people who replied have volunteered already to test Xubuntu.
[12:55] <heno> somerville32: yep, thanks for the heads up. It's a community-based testing project and so I will adjust it accordingly
[12:55] <heno> happy testing! :)
[12:55] <somerville32> Thanks ;] 
[12:56] <somerville32> heno: oh wow!
[12:56] <somerville32> heno: You got quite the response for not including Xubuntu, lol
[12:57] <heno> yep, more Xubuntu testing seems to be the first measurable success of the forum-based testing setup ;)
[01:05] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: feel free to file; I suspect it's somewhere between hw-detect and pcmciautils. Was this a machine with PCMCIA hardware?
[01:05] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: no, it's an amd64 desktop machine.
[01:05] <Mithrandir> (but i386 alternate installer)
[01:06] <Mithrandir> file against hw-detect?
[01:06] <cjwatson> sivang: self.__class__.__name__ woould be better I'd think
[01:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: yeah
[01:07] <cjwatson> pitti: is there a bug about the broken ubiquity erase-disk bit?
[01:08] <cjwatson> that seems like potential respin fodder
[01:09] <cjwatson> pitti: 78777 sounds like the initrd wasn't set properly?
[01:09] <cjwatson> pitti: fishing out /etc/lilo.conf might be useful
[01:10] <sivang> cjwatson: hmm, right, will probably be less error prone althought them both achive the same
[01:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: have you respun your alternate CDs or should I?
[01:13] <ogra> Mithrandir, i dont see 0.131 in the archive yet
[01:14] <ogra> but feel free once its there
[01:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: oh, point, I ran the buildd sequencer, not the publisher.  Running now, I'll spin i386 CDs for you when it's there
[01:17] <ogra> oki
[01:18] <pitti> cjwatson: yes, I filed a bug and linked it from Testing/Current/Ubuntu
[01:19] <pitti> cjwatson: bug 78778
[01:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78778 in ubiquity "ubiquity crash on 'use entire disk'" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78778
[01:19] <cjwatson> just found it, thanks
[01:19] <pitti> cjwatson: for 78777, lilo.conf looked okay; re-running update-initramfs and lilo didn't help
[01:19] <pitti> cjwatson: I'll attach the lilo.conf
[01:21] <cjwatson> pitti: 78778> do you recall what the autopartitioning page looked like? were there any choices labelled with disk names?
[01:21] <pitti> cjwatson: I *think* not
[01:21] <pitti> cjwatson: if you want I reattempt the whole install again and do a screenshot
[01:22] <pitti> cjwatson: I can also try installing grub in d-i (install-grub errored out in rescue system since it didn't find the hd)
[01:22] <cjwatson> pitti: if you wouldn't mind (screenshot) - I can't reproduce it here
[01:22] <cjwatson> your partman log indicates finding disks
[01:24] <cjwatson> my vmware instance is currently set up with two disks to stress the partitioner a bit more. I wonder if it breaks with one disk ...
[01:26] <pitti> cjwatson: lilo.conf attached
[01:27] <Mithrandir> i386 ubiquity seems to work so far for me at least, it's at copying files.
[01:28] <Mithrandir> (single disk)
[01:31] <cjwatson> pitti: for your ubiquity crash, could you start it using 'ubiquity --debug' from a terminal and get me /var/log/syslog and /var/log/installer/debug?
[01:31] <cjwatson> pitti: usual caveat: don't use a valuable password
[01:31] <pitti> yes, of course
[01:31] <cjwatson> like Mithrandir, I can't reproduce it here
[01:34] <cjwatson> pitti: lilo> does an /initrd.img exist?
[01:34] <cjwatson> pitti: or is it /boot/initrd.img?
[01:35] <pitti> cjwatson: it was correct IIRC, can check in a few seconds
[01:36] <pitti> cjwatson: confirmed, correct symlink existed
[01:39] <pitti> cjwatson: I attached the screenshot of the current partitioner (new installation attempt); that's the shot you want?
[01:40] <cjwatson> pitti: to which bug?
[01:40] <pitti> cjwatson: 78777 (expert install boot failure)
[01:40] <pitti> oh, erm, sorry
[01:40] <pitti> you wanted the screenshot for 78777
[01:40] <pitti> nevermind then
[01:40] <cjwatson> pitti: oh, I'm sorry, I meant for 78778
[01:41] <cjwatson> although the debug files should be sufficient there anyway
[01:41] <pitti> ok, so I did the screenshot for the expert install boot failure
[01:41] <pitti> ok, will do a shot from that
[01:42] <cjwatson> the screenshot there is primarily for interest's sake, but it might be useful
[01:42] <cjwatson> if you ever see "Guided - use entire disk" without disk choices below it, that's a bug
[01:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ubiquity blows up when trying to install the langpacks though.
[01:44] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: assert cache._depcache.BrokenCount == 0
[01:44] <Mithrandir> (Norwegian locale)
[01:44] <Mithrandir> (nb_NO.UTF-8)
[01:44] <ogra> Mithrandir, hmm, worked for me (german)
[01:45] <ogra> hmm, but why do i get a fsck on a freshly installed partition ? 
[01:45] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, you mean that screen; it had exactly one subitem with my primary HD
[01:45] <pitti> cjwatson: and both 'guided, entire' and that disk was selected (the radio buttons)
[01:46] <ogra> oh, great and it even failed ...
[01:47] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I'd love to know why that is. I have a zillion reports about it and have never seen it.
[01:47] <cjwatson> I'll see if I can reproduce
[01:47] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: what can I give you to help you debug it?  ubiquity --debug and the log?
[01:47] <cjwatson> pitti: ok, in that case I just need the debug files
[01:48] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I have lots of logs for it, and --debug probably won't help much - I'll see if nb_NO.UTF-8 is enough to reproduce it
[01:49] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu ppc install is fine (apart from the fsck on first boot)
[01:49] <cjwatson> whoa, what the hell, weird erase-disk failure
[01:50] <incon> cairo on feisty is not built with glitz support? will this happen in this release
[01:50] <cjwatson> hald: mounted /dev/hda1 on behalf of uid 0
[01:50] <Riddell> Mithrandir: all three desktop kubuntu CDs are good to go
[01:50] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: mount-all-partitions race bug?
[01:50] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yay!
[01:51] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: I think it must be. What's the spec name?
[01:51] <cjwatson> mount-all-local-filesystems
[01:51] <cjwatson> pitti: how do I suppress that?
[01:52] <pitti> oh, argh
[01:52] <pitti> cjwatson: quick&dirty way is to kill gnome-volume-manager
[01:53] <cjwatson> pitti: is there a gconf key? I'm already setting several
[01:53] <cjwatson> /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/automount_drives and /desktop/gnome/volume_manager/automount_media
[01:54] <pitti> cjwatson: hm, if g-v-m doesn't respect that, that looks like a feisty regression
[01:54] <pitti> cjwatson: (mount-all-local-filesystems didn't change anything in g-v-m)
[01:54] <cjwatson> unless I'm setting them wrongly
[01:55] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: automount_drives and automount_media are both set here, do you unset and then reset them?
[01:56] <sivang> I don't suppose anybody knows a ready made auto completion implemetation that can be used in a python program?
[01:56] <ogra> Mithrandir, 0.131 is done ...
[01:57] <Mithrandir> ogra: so is your install iso.
[01:57] <ogra> oh, wow, thanks
[01:58] <pitti> cjwatson: I attached syslog, debug, and screenshot to bug 78778
[01:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78778 in ubiquity "ubiquity crash on 'use entire disk'" [High,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78778
[02:04] <heno> cjwatson: can you confirm bug 78722 ? Would that be considered a blocker? It's confirmed by a forum tester as well now
[02:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78722 in ubiquity "Feisty 20070110 -- Grub fails to list old kernel" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78722
[02:07] <Riddell> pitti: should ssh advertise itself as an avahi service by default?
[02:10] <siretart> Riddell: no. you'll have to install a .service file by hand
[02:12] <Riddell> siretart: what do I need to do besides `sudo cp /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/examples/ssh.service /etc/avahi/services/`?
[02:12] <cjwatson> heno: it's not a blocker, but should be investigated
[02:13] <heno> cjwatson: ok, so should the test be marked as PASS?
[02:15] <cjwatson> heno: pass with note, yes
[02:15] <Riddell> siretart: ooh, that works
[02:15] <cjwatson> I think, anyway
[02:15] <Riddell> siretart: but my question is if we should be doing that by default
[02:15] <cjwatson> sorry, all sorts of shit is exploding in my face and I'm not entirely on top of everything
[02:16] <francalier> any news on packaging microsoft bob for feisty??
[02:16] <somerville32> francalier, For sure. We've already got it packaged, approved, uploaded, added to the seeds, and ready to roll by default.
[02:17] <francalier> will there be a non-free info popup?
[02:18] <poningru> ...
[02:18] <siretart> Riddell: you'll have to convince cjwatson of that, because he maintains ssh ;)
[02:19] <somerville32> francalier, No. Microsoft gave us a big payoff to keep the fact that bob is proprietary a big secret.
[02:19] <thom> i really, really hope that we don't do ssh mdns advertising by default
[02:21] <Mithrandir> thom: it'd be against the network policy.  What we allow is listening and using those services by default.
[02:23] <cjwatson> 'Resolved address "xml:readwrite:/root/.gconf" to a writable configuration source at position 0'
[02:23] <cjwatson> I think that's the problem - should be /home/ubuntu/.gconf
[02:23] <Mithrandir> ah, probably.
[02:23] <cjwatson> investigating a fix now
[02:31] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: r1800 in ubiquity trunk
[02:32] <cjwatson> I'll see if the BrokenPackages thing shows up here
[02:34] <pitti> re
[02:35] <pitti> Riddell: TBH I'd rather not do that
[02:36] <Riddell> pitti: why not?  it's useful to know if I can sftp into a machine
[02:37] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: reproduced your problem
[02:37] <pitti> Riddell: well, yeah, it's only for the local network, so it's not a general invitation to 'DoS me' (happened on my colo server several times)
[02:39] <Riddell> pitti: my thinking is that avahi is to make it easy to find things, but if they're not advertised by default there's not much point
[02:39] <pitti> true
[02:39] <pitti> Riddell: what's necessary to enable that?
[02:40] <Riddell> pitti: sudo cp /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/examples/ssh.service /etc/avahi/services/
[02:40] <Riddell> pitti: but that's ssh, it's sftp that's important to advertise for the GUI apps
[02:40] <pitti> Riddell: ah, I thought sshd could advertise itself or so
[02:41] <Mithrandir> it could be taught to, I guess.
[02:41] <Riddell> pitti: doesn't do on my candidate herd 2 installs
[02:41] <pitti> + eth0 IPv4 Remote Terminal on donald                     SSH Fernzugriff      local
[02:41] <pitti> woo :)
[02:42] <pitti> Riddell: ok, if cjwatson is fine with it, we should just ship that file in openssh-server, AFAICS
[02:44] <\sh> I don't think that is wise to enable ssh for avahi...
[02:45] <cjwatson> pitti: I'm not overly keen simply because so many of my users are going to throw a massive wobbly about it
[02:45] <pitti> my main concern is DoS invitation as well, but then again, in the .local range it's easy enough to do a portscan
[02:45] <cjwatson> and sftp is not useful to advertise in quite the same way as, say, a printer, simply because you generally cannot use sftp without authentication
[02:46] <cjwatson> avahi seems massively more useful for unauthenticated services than authenticated ones
[02:46] <cjwatson> if somebody's creating an account for you, telling you what host they are is the least of their problems ...
[02:46] <Riddell> I use it all the time for authenticated ones, you still want to connect to local authenticated services
[02:46] <cjwatson> you can use a hostname for that
[02:46] <cjwatson> I just see it as a massively niche case, I'm afraid
[02:48] <cjwatson> also sshing to something whose hostname repeatedly changes means lots and lots of host key confirmation prompts, so I'm not keen on encouraging that configuration
[02:48] <cjwatson> hostname> or IP address
[02:48] <cjwatson> simply because people treat the host key prompt too lightly as it is
[02:51] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: your patch seems to have fixed the mounting problem for me.
[02:53] <Riddell> all seems like quite a geeky point of view, "how do I get that file off your computer", "type sftp://foo.local/home/me into the file browser" compared to "go to network and browse for foo"
[02:54] <Riddell> \sh, thom: what's your rationales against it?
[02:54] <cjwatson> Riddell: the host key prompt is the only defence against certain security problems
[02:54] <cjwatson> I don't care whether it appears geeky or not; it's important
[02:55] <cjwatson> Riddell: if people aren't willing to deal with a hostname or an IP address, it seems unlikely that they will be willing to deal with the host key prompt ...
[02:56] <cjwatson> I'd rather encourage people to share files without authentication than encourage them to share files with broken authentication
[02:56] <pitti> (yay gnome-user-share)
[02:57] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: ok, the translation of the BrokenPackages error is:
[02:57] <cjwatson> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[02:57] <cjwatson>   language-support-nb: Depends: mozilla-firefox-locale-nb-no but it is not installable
[02:58] <cjwatson> now the question is why ubiquity couldn't deal with that
[02:58] <siretart> seb128: I've noticed that in the past time, you've reassigned many bugs filed against totem to xine-lib, which is great. When reassinging, could you please ask the submitter to include a reference to a file causing this bug?
[02:58] <siretart> in future, that is
[02:58] <seb128> siretart: ok, will do
[02:58] <Riddell> cjwatson: I'm pretty sure in KDE if the fingerprint fails then you can't connect, if it still allows it in gnome I'm sure seb128 would be happy to fix it :)
[02:59] <cjwatson> Riddell: how were you planning to get people to check the fingerprint?
[02:59] <cjwatson> Riddell: you know it has to be checked manually for strong security, right?
[03:00] <Riddell> cjwatson: it pops up with a message when it connects to a computer for the first time, just like on the command line
[03:00] <dholbach> Mithrandir: deskbar-applet also not urgent
[03:00] <cjwatson> Riddell: sure, and then you have to check that with the owner of the computer
[03:01] <cjwatson> Riddell: so given that the owner has to read out the host key fingerprint anyway, reading out the hostname/IP-address (which is considerably shorter) or a URL is not a problem, IMO
[03:01] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I'm tempted to release-note it and just get the automount problem in.
[03:02] <Riddell> cjwatson: right, I see your issue then, thanks
[03:03] <cjwatson> Riddell: it's not that I'm intrinsically against advertising ssh via avahi - I don't think it causes a problem per se - but I do think that managing the perception of things in such a way as not to weaken ssh's security in practice by (effectively) social engineering of our users is a more difficult problem that it appears at first
[03:03] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: can I have ten minutes? I feel I'm quite close
[03:03] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: also pitti's problem is still outstanding and I suspect affects only certain languages; try reproducing it by installing in German?
[03:04] <cjwatson> I'm guessing it's a str vs. unicode issue
[03:04] <pitti> cjwatson: I try with English
[03:04] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: ok, I want to go home now anyway, so you have about half an hour. I'll continue testing when I get home.
[03:09] <pitti> cjwatson: right, with English it doesn't crash; noted so in the bug
[03:19] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: fixed, I think - just need to test
[03:19] <cjwatson> pitti: reproduced
[03:27] <cjwatson> pitti: fixed
[03:28] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: tell me when it's the queue?
[03:28] <pitti> cjwatson: \o/
[03:29] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: will do - testing the Norwegian fix now
[03:31] <Mithrandir> yay
[03:33] <jdong> when would be the next time the archive deities decide to process backports?
[03:34] <ogra> Mithrandir, edubuntu all arches, all flavors are fine 
[03:36] <Mithrandir> jdong: whenever a crate of free time comes flying down from the heavens.
[03:36] <Mithrandir> jdong: sorry, it hasn't been a priority lately, I've concentrated on cleaning out NEW, and that's just about done, once that's cleared again, I'll do syncs and backports.
[03:37] <jdong> ok, that's not a problem, we all have priorities :)
[03:37] <Lathiat> cjwatson, \sh, Riddell: i probably wouldnt advertise ssh by default
[03:38] <Lathiat> cjwatson, \sh, Riddell: i think advertisements should be something that is user confirmed, e.g. "Share my music"
[03:38] <jdong> "secure file sharing" :)
[03:38] <cjwatson> cute, that fix has the useful effect that it will install as much of language-support-$LL as it can even if some of it is broken
[03:39] <\sh> Lathiat: that's what I said...I don't think advertising ssh is a good thing...I mean, normally I don't have openssh-server installed on my desktop box
[03:39] <Lathiat> \sh: certainly if you *did* advertise it, you would do it when ssh is installed and nto avahi
[03:41] <poningru> please excuse the intrusion but quick question I dont understand whats the big deal about about advertizing ssh, someone can just nmap on the lan and picks it up so...
[03:41] <jdong> poningru: I think it's more of a "why does Joe need to know this?" kind of thing
[03:42] <jdong> same reason why DT_GNU_HASH hasn't been advertised in Kubuntu Feisty yet
[03:42] <jdong> though it offers a very noticeable performance boost
[03:42] <\sh> poningru: plain desktop users don't know what nmap is
[03:42] <Lathiat> plain desktop users arent hackers
[03:42] <poningru> oh so this discussion wasnt from a security standpoint but UE?
[03:43] <cjwatson> poningru: at the intersection of the two
[03:43] <Lathiat> i mean it doesnt really expose alot of info
[03:43] <Lathiat> that isnt otherwise relatively easily findable
[03:43] <Lathiat> but there is a certain security point to avahi
[03:43] <Lathiat> its unsecurity through unobscurity
[03:43] <cjwatson> poningru: like I say, advertising ssh over avahi is not by itself a security problem IMO, but it does not help the user experience if you are actually trying to maintain security
[03:44] <poningru> hmm ic
[03:44] <Lathiat> i also think things shouldnt be advertised because you just installed a package
[03:44] <Lathiat> i think it should be a case of "click share my music", etc
[03:44] <Lathiat> *click* i want to host a game
[03:45] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: while you're certainly allowed that opinion, publishing by default for packages which aren't installed by default is ok wrt our network policy.
[03:46] <jdong> *click* hey look, free music! oh wait nvm
[03:46] <Lathiat> Mithrandir: right, true
[03:46] <Lathiat> i said that was an opinion :)
[03:46] <Mithrandir> yeah
[03:48] <bddebian> Heya
[03:59] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: in the queue now
[04:01] <ogra_> heno, where are all my edubuntu testing procedures from the links section on Testing/Current gone ?
[04:02] <dholbach> """
[04:02] <dholbach> Edubuntu
[04:02] <dholbach>     *
[04:02] <dholbach>       See Testing/Current/Edubuntu for the latest test candidates and test results.
[04:02] <dholbach> """
[04:03] <dholbach> ogra_: ^
[04:03] <dholbach> at the top, bold letters :-)
[04:03] <ogra_> dholbach, yes and that page doent have any of the ltsp testing advises anymore
[04:03] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: Xubuntu desktop amd64 & i386 are OK (I can't test the ppc isos)
[04:04] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: amd64 alternate is ok too, testing i386 now
[04:04] <ogra_> th eold page had a bunch of steps you have to test on edubuntu (actually the only stuff i'm intrested in after testers know they can boot and the installer runs generally)
[04:05] <ogra_> ahh, found it ... heno nvm ... found that you moved it to Testing/Short
[04:05] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: yay.
[04:06] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: are anybody else testing the ppc ones?
[04:07] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: I don't think so
[04:14] <fabbione> Mithrandir: did you roll out any new server images since 2007011 ?
[04:15] <Mithrandir> fabbione: no
[04:15] <fabbione> ok thanks
[04:15] <fabbione> are we going to roll out more images today?
[04:15] <fabbione> i need to coordinate with -certification
[04:16] <Mithrandir> yes, we are.
[04:16] <Mithrandir> we need new ubuntu -desktop images
[04:18] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok thanks
[04:27] <pitti> Mithrandir: at least we can be glad that alternates are ok; they are such a pain to test...
[04:27] <heno> ogra_: sorry did I loose something in the transition? There was a lot of duplicate stuff floating around
[04:28] <ogra_> heno, no, it just took me a bit to find it, its all fine, thanks for the work
[04:34] <kevin> Greetings, I am trying to upgrade edubuntu 6.06 to 6.10. When I run gksu "update-manager -c" it says "your system is up to date" with no upgrade message available. I have the latest version of Update Manager and have dapper-updates repositories in my sources.list. I asked about this on #ubuntu and #edubuntu. No one seems to know. Someone then directed me to this channel. Is it a bug?
[04:35] <ogra_> mvo_, ^^^ any idea ? 
[04:40] <mvo_> kevin: lets talk about it in #ubuntu 
[04:47] <azeem> elmo: James, I hope you're not involved in this: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/10/meth_smuggled_in_elm.html
[04:56] <kevin> mov_, going there now, had to step out for a couple minutes
[05:09] <gpocentek> grr, xubuntu alternate can't detect network harware (on i386)
[05:09] <gpocentek> hardware*
[05:10] <gpocentek> but it work just fine with the amd iso
[05:10] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: sure it's not just very, very slow?
[05:10] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: after a while, it just turns to a blue screen and does nothing
[05:10] <gpocentek> I've waited several minutes
[05:11] <brentcool> wow you got a bsod
[05:11] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: Alt-F2 enter ps ax ; does it seem to be modprobing?
[05:12] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: let me restart the whole thing to see this
[05:18] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: it's modprobing during the hardware detection, I'm waiting the blue screen now
[05:19] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: please wait, it'll probably take a couple of minutes (at least it did for me)
[05:19] <gpocentek> ok
[05:20] <ogra> hmm, thats weird, why didnt i see anything similar in edubuntu ... Riddell did you ? ^^^
[05:21] <Mithrandir> ogra: seems to be hardware related.
[05:21] <Riddell> ogra: network is working fine on all three architectures
[05:21] <gpocentek> ah, blue screen, it's still modprobing and ethdetecting
[05:21] <ogra> Mithrandir, ah ... right
[05:22] <Mithrandir> gpocentek: ok, so you're seeing the same as me.  Go and drink a cup of coffee or tea or something and tell me if it's not done when you're done with the beverage. :-)
[05:22] <ogra> else get a piece of cake as well ;)
[05:22] <gpocentek> :)
[05:25] <gpocentek> yay, it works :)
[05:27] <brentcool> is herd 2 being released today?
[05:28] <Mithrandir> brentcool: that's the plan, yes.
[05:28] <cjwatson> brentcool: we ran into a few showstoppers, so it's a little later than hoped, but if Mithrandir thinks he can still do it ... :-)
[05:28] <brentcool> that's great
[05:30] <brentcool> i ask because the CD/DVD testing forum appears to be nonexistent all of sudden
[05:30] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you have an ETA for the new images? I need to leave in 1.5 hours, but would like to do some ppc/amd64 tests
[05:31] <Mithrandir> pitti: publishing binaries now; just upgrade your live cd and run the tests (once it finishes, about 20 minutes)
[05:32] <pitti> Mithrandir: 'upgrade your live CD == apt-get dist-upgrade in live system? i. e. it's only new ubiquity?
[05:32] <brentcool> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=201 doesn't appear to go anywhere, just giving you guys a heads up if it was important
[05:32] <Mithrandir> pitti: yes, do you have other stuff which is broken?
[05:33] <pitti> Mithrandir: no blockers
[05:33] <pitti> just the usual small bugs we have since edgy or longer
[05:33] <pitti> hi mneptok! *hug*
[05:34] <Mithrandir> pitti: it'd be nice if we could have a "quiet week" at some point where we stamp out flaming ducks^W^Wannoying bugs.
[05:34] <cjwatson> brentcool: worked for me
[05:34] <cjwatson> brentcool: and still works
[05:34] <pitti> Mithrandir++
[05:35] <brentcool> cjwatson, it takes me to just a blank template, no links to download ISO images
[05:35] <cjwatson> brentcool: -> heno, or the forums admins, maybe
[05:36] <keescook> mornin'
[05:36] <cjwatson> brentcool: but for downloading images, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ (desktop) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ (alternate) and insert /kubuntu /edubuntu /xubuntu as appropriate after cdimage.ubuntu.com for flavours other than Ubuntu
[05:37] <heno> brentcool: there seems to have been some technical change in the forum today. http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=201 works
[05:38] <brentcool> thanks cjwatson , I just wanted to make sure that other people wouldn't hit a brick wall with the semi-broken link :)  I've got feisty in vmware with the newest updates, and I'm loving it so far
[05:38] <brentcool> ahh that's what it is
[05:38] <brentcool> ok problem solved, thanks heno
[05:39] <cjwatson> brentcool: ah, sorry, didn't notice the www.
[05:41] <doko> hmm, power management isn't working out of the box on a new i386 install
[05:42] <ogra> doko, elaborate ? 
[05:43] <doko> ogra: cpu stays at fill speed
[05:43] <ogra> doesnt go to sleep ? doesnt wake up ? 
[05:43] <ogra> yeah thats a known upstream bug ... already fixed in cvs and reported several times
[05:43] <ogra> the ondemad governor is missing
[05:44] <ogra> will be fixed in the next g-p-m release
[05:45] <ogra> doko, 2.17.5 should fix it
[05:53] <megatill> deutscher channel?
[05:53] <pitti> megatill: nein, bitte hier Englisch sprechen
[05:53] <megatill> pitti: okay where is the german channel of ubuntu?
[05:53] <silwol> megatill: #ubuntu-de
[05:54] <megatill> txh
[05:54] <megatill> good bye
[05:55] <kevin> Hi mvo, I figured out that the upgrade to 6.10 in Update Manager will only be detected if I exported the http_proxy. Even though I had the proxy set in Preferences->Network Proxy it didn't work there. Just thought I'd let you know. 
[06:01] <mvo> thanks kevin
[06:01] <mvo> too late
[06:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: yay, ubiquity 1.3.11 made it to the archive
[06:03] <Mithrandir> pitti: indeed.  Rolling livefs-es now
[06:04] <elmo> pitti: ... file something in RT
[06:04] <pitti> oh, that's not a problem on my end?
[06:06] <ogra> pitti, use a hub server thats not in the telecom network to download 
[06:06] <elmo> pitti: it could be, or it could be your ISP vs Cogent
[06:06] <ogra> their routing is fucked
[06:06] <elmo> pitti: try downloading something from durville.c.c - if that's fast, it's your ISP vs. Cogent and we can work around it
[06:06] <elmo> but generally speaking, the point is please report problems if their reproducable, and I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time I've seen you complain about speed problems to u.c
[06:07] <elmo> they're too
[06:07] <pitti> elmo: indeed, I get 400 kB/s from durville
[06:07] <pitti> elmo: sorry, it's pretty much the first time I notice that; I usually use de.archive.u.c
[06:08] <pitti> I just noticed because I wanted to test the new ubiquity quickly
[06:08] <elmo> pitti: ok, maybe I'm misremebering who had sped problems
[06:25] <pitti> yay, ubiquity doesn't crash for me any more
[06:25] <cjwatson> hooray
[06:25] <mjg59> iwj: Most Winmodems nowadays are on a modified ac97 bus called mc97
[06:25] <iwj> So I don't think it's sensible to spend a lot of effort researching nonfree drivers unless there's a compelling reason to include them, so I think a decision in principle to include nonfree drivers (which I wouldn't support) would need to be taken first.
[06:25] <Keybuk> iwj: basically, where a modem needs a binary-only driver, firmware blob or binary-only daemon; that's not a blocker for investigation -- find out what hardware we need to obtain, or whether someone in the team already has that modem, and find out what they need to install, etc.
[06:25] <Keybuk> iwj: the TB will make a decision about the driver once it's packaged and ready to go
[06:25] <Keybuk> iwj: the compelling reason to include them is to be able to support modems
[06:25] <Keybuk> this has been identified as a high priority
[06:25] <mjg59> iwj: slmodem-daemon is the userspace portion
[06:26] <mjg59> iwj: Note that this /doesn't/ apply to Conexant chipsets, such as the ones found on Thinkpads.
[06:26] <mjg59> They need a payware driver. 
[06:26] <iwj> mjg59: Aha.
[06:27] <iwj> mjg59: I must have been looking at the wrong websites.
[06:27] <mjg59> Ignore linmodems.
[06:27] <iwj> mjg59: Ah.
[06:27] <mjg59> It's full of insanity.
[06:27] <iwj> Right.
[06:27] <mjg59> The situation is less good with respect to older chipsets
[06:27] <mjg59> Especially since most of those drivers don't build on anything even vaguely recent
[06:28] <mjg59> Almost all of the drivers for them were never officially released
[06:28] <iwj> Is the LDP modem howto any better ?
[06:28] <mjg59> Might be a little
[06:28] <iwj> Where should I be looking ?
[06:28] <mjg59> That depends on what you're looking for
[06:28] <mjg59> The hwdb is probably a good plan
[06:28] <iwj> mjg59: It was clear that linmodems.org didn't have any significant number of useful drivers.
[06:28] <mjg59> See which PCI chipsets actually pop up
[06:29] <mjg59> I'd be willing to bet that the number of users with PCI winmodems (other than Conexants) is pretty slim
[06:30] <mjg59> The only other common one is likely to be Lucent
[06:30] <mjg59> Which we already ship a driver for
[06:30] <mjg59> Except it's not SMP-safe. Win.
[06:30] <iwj> And the Conexant users are out of luck because it's payware, which leaves us supporting only these ac97-like ones.  (AMR?)
[06:31] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:31] <kylem> mjg59, groan.
[06:31] <mjg59> There's a "free" 14.4kb version of the Conexant drivers
[06:31] <mjg59> When I mailed them ~18 months ago to ask if we could ship them, they never replied
[06:31] <mjg59> But then, this is the company whose MODULE_LICENSE field reads:
[06:32] <mjg59> "GPL\0With additional restrictions"
[06:32] <_ion> Heh.
[06:32] <mjg59> The kernel does strcmp, hits the null and doesn't taint
[06:32] <mjg59> I think shipping them would result in hatred
[06:34] <kylem> i think that was fixed to check the entire length of the string.
[06:34] <mjg59> iwj: What I'd suggest would be just to bump slmodem-daemon to restricted, and have it check whether there's a Connexant codec
[06:34] <elmo> kylem: the right fix would have been to oops
[06:34] <mjg59> iwj: You can do that by looking at some of the registers under /proc/alsa
[06:34] <kylem> elmo, the right fix would be to sue the company.
[06:34] <kylem> for being utter cunts.
[06:34] <_ion> One could claim they're saying it's GPL, because it is supposed to be read until the \0, and the rest is just some meaningless list of bytes. ;-)
[06:34] <mjg59> _ion: Eh. The driver's a thin shim around a large blob of compiled C++
[06:34] <mjg59> It's very, very hateful
[06:35] <_ion> ...and because they've published it until GPL (that's the impression they want the kernel to have  let's play along), sue them for the source. ;-)
[06:36] <mjg59> Uh. They're the copyright holders.
[06:36] <kylem> iirc it contains a copy of serial_core.c too.
[06:36] <_ion> I'm just kidding, don't take the previous lines seriously.
[06:36] <gpocentek> Mithrandir: installation finished, the i386 alternate is "good" I guess
[06:37] <gpocentek> just a little slow
[06:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: for the record, apt-get dist-upgraded ppc/amd64 live systems do not crash ubiquity any more
[06:39] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'll do full tests of the new ISOs tonight or tomorrow early morning, but it should be well (modulo squashfs bugs and the like :) )
[06:41] <iwj> download/sl-modem_2.9.10+2.9.9d+e-pre2.orig.tar.gz: POSIX tar archive
[06:41] <iwj> w3m--
[06:41] <iwj> Or maybe archive.ubuntu.com--
[06:43] <iwj> mjg59: Do you know why sl-modem is in multiverse rather than universe ?
[06:43] <mjg59> iwj: Non-free
[06:43] <mjg59> The actual modem bit is only shipped as binary
[06:44] <iwj> ./drivers/amrlibs.o  Aha, I see.
[06:44] <iwj> Still, much less annoying than a binary kernel driver.
[07:01] <Lathiat> keescook: are you coming to LCA?
[07:01] <keescook> Lathiat: I am!  :)
[07:02] <Lathiat> keescook: awesome, i'll be sure to say hi :)
[07:02] <Lathiat> (i figured from your mail to attendees)
[07:02] <keescook> you bet.  are you coming to the keysigning?
[07:02] <Lathiat> yep
[07:02] <keescook> perfect.  :)
[07:04] <cjwatson> pitti: still around?
[07:04] <cjwatson> pitti: your g-s-t patch as uploaded isn't quite the same as the one in the bug
[07:05] <pitti> cjwatson: yes, I am. Leaving in 11 minutes
[07:05] <cjwatson> pitti: in particular the addition of X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true is missing from the upload
[07:05] <cjwatson> pitti: er
[07:05] <cjwatson> pitti: never mind me, I'm insane and can't read two-level diffs
[07:05] <pitti> *phew*
[07:06] <iwj> insane> That's because you've been reading too many two-level diffs.
[07:06] <cjwatson> that would do it
[07:07] <cjwatson> pitti: both your SRU nags from the meeting accepted now
[07:07] <pitti> \o/
[07:07] <pitti> thanks
[07:07] <nags> cjwatson, ?
[07:07] <cjwatson> nags: not you :-)
[07:07] <pitti> oh dear...
[07:07] <nags> cjwatson, ah ! okay :)
[07:08] <pitti> people should avoid using nicks that are actual language words...
[07:08] <pitti> :)
[07:08] <cjwatson> I pitti you if you think that
[07:08] <pitti> heh
[07:08] <pitti> cjwatson: Kame on!
[07:41] <ernstp> Iv'e got a 623 Mb (res) beagled running
[07:41] <ernstp> can I do some usefull debugging before I kill it?
[07:42] <ernstp> in Feisty
[07:51] <Riddell> Mithrandir: how are those ubuntu CDs doing?
[08:06] <Mithrandir> Riddell: they're built, I'm rsyncing now.  Test away.
[08:10] <doko> Mithrandir: ok to upload packages for main again, so that they get queued?
[08:11] <gnomefreak> iwj: if your around. would it be ok to change the package of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/14911. it seems to be a flashplugin-nonfree issue not firefox
[08:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 14911 in firefox "Flash plugin problem with ARGB visuals causes crash" [Unknown,Confirmed]  
[08:13] <iwj> I think it's definitely OK to add a task against flashplugin-nonfree.  But the task against firefox is to have a workaround.
[08:13] <mdke> is anyone available for some archive administration action? I'd be grateful for ubuntu-docs getting poked through into edgy-proposed as per bug 74555
[08:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 74555 in ubuntu-docs "Stable release update" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/74555
[08:13] <gnomefreak> ok so ill add flash to it
[08:14] <iwj> gnomefreak: Right.
[08:14] <gnomefreak> ok cool ty
[08:15] <Mithrandir> mdke: can it wait until tomorrow?  I'm planning on spending most of tomorrow on archive administration stuff.
[08:16] <mdke> Mithrandir: that would be great, thanks
[08:18] <Riddell> Mithrandir: can you look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/77711 tomorrow too?
[08:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77711 in mailody "Please sync 0.3.0-1 with Debian experimental" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[08:20] <Mithrandir> Riddell: tomorrow? :-)  I'll get herd 2 out and then end my day.
[08:21] <Riddell> I did say tomorrow :)
[08:22] <Mithrandir> oh, ok.
[08:23] <Mithrandir> yes, it's has ubuntu-archive subscribed to it, so I'll look at it.
[08:35] <||cw> not sure where to go with this... but where do I find the "setting preliminary keymap" that happens right after the initramfs scripts.  I want to try and make it faster
[08:35] <mynameisdeleted> how much bandwidht would it take to run an official ubuntu mirror?
[08:35] <mynameisdeleted> I have 1gbps internet with dual cpu 2.8ghz
[08:36] <mynameisdeleted> and 1gb+ ram and sata 
[08:36] <mynameisdeleted> I'm guessing I'd prob want 2GB+ ram and raid
[08:37] <mdke> Znarl: question for you ^^
[08:38] <Znarl> Hello mynameisdeleted. 
[08:38] <mynameisdeleted> hi
[08:38] <Znarl> mynameisdeleted : You may like to join #ubuntu-mirrors for assistance with setting up a mirror.
[08:39] <tormod> heno, is Testing/Current/Ubuntu done for herd-2? It still says 20070111 (not .1) and there's nothing in the i386 column.
[08:41] <somerville32> mynameisdeleted, Will you setup an Xubuntu mirror for us too? :)
[08:41] <mynameisdeleted> perhaps
[08:41] <somerville32> Thanks a bunch :)
[08:41] <mynameisdeleted> what rsync url?
[08:42] <Znarl> mynameisdeleted : I'll help you with the xubuntu rsyncs, don't worry.
[08:44] <Mithrandir> tormod: -desktop is not tested yet.
[08:45] <tormod> Mithrandir: I am d/l'ing 11.1, will try it soon.
[08:57] <cjwatson> (I answered ||cw in /msg)
[09:00] <Riddell> Mithrandir: ubuntu powerpc desktop CD installs fine
[09:01] <somerville32> Riddell: Want to try Xubuntu powerpc desktop cd? We don't get much powerpc testing :(
[09:02] <Riddell> somerville32: won't the xubuntu CDs need remade for whatever the ubuntu issue was?
[09:03] <somerville32> Riddell: I went for a nap. There was a ubuntu issue?
[09:04] <Riddell> somerville32: a crash in the gtk ubiquity frontend I believe
[09:04] <somerville32> Mithrandir: ^^
[09:05] <Mithrandir> somerville32: yes, I believe xubuntu would be hit by it as well; I'll rebuild xubuntu now
[09:05] <somerville32> Thanks
[09:06] <gnomefreak> are we still frozen?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> gnomefreak: yes.
[09:06] <gnomefreak> thought so
[09:22] <keescook> Mithrandir: are the LP publishing queues on hold?  I'm not seeing my security updates for breezy/dapper/edgy getting into the archives.
[09:22] <Mithrandir> keescook: yes, they are.  I can byhand the publisher if you want.
[09:22] <keescook> cool, yes please.
[09:23] <Mithrandir> keescook: running.
[09:23] <keescook> Mithrandir: thanks!  (Is there any way to only stop publication for feisty-only?)
[09:24] <Mithrandir> keescook: not that I know of, no.
[09:25] <keescook> I wonder if I should open a wishlist item for that, or if it will just naturally happen as a result of the PPA stuff?
[09:25] <elmo> keescook: no, a bug would be good idea
[09:25] <elmo> it's unrelated to PPA
[09:25] <keescook> elmo: okay, adding
[09:47] <keescook> Seveas: can you change your USN RSS reader to include the "Details" section of USNs?
[10:06] <somerville32> Mithrandir, Did the Xubuntu rebuild finish?
[10:07] <Mithrandir> somerville32: yeah, should be done now.
[10:07] <Mithrandir> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20070111.1/
[10:07] <somerville32> Riddell, Would you be able to test? :] 
[10:07] <somerville32> Mithrandir, thanks a bunch :] 
[10:10] <heno> somerville32: try recruiting some of the people who reported having ppc hardware in the forums :)
[10:10] <somerville32> heno: Good idea :)
[10:10] <heno> lots of people have signed up, but there is not much actual testing yet
[10:11] <heno> sfllaw: have you looked at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=201 today?
[10:12] <heno> any ideas on getting the testing going there?
[10:14] <somerville32> Maybe there could be some sort of recognition/incentive for people who actually test and make a report?
[10:15] <heno> I think people also just have to get used to how it works
[10:16] <heno> It's quite tricky when the relevant image can change several times during a day
[10:16] <heno> might be tricky if you're not following on IRC
[10:16] <heno> dunno, we'll have to find out :)
[10:17] <Riddell> somerville32: downloading
[10:17] <somerville32> Riddell: Thanks a bunch :)
[10:22] <LaserJock> heno: I don't think the subforum is in the right place or has the right name :/
[10:22] <heno> LaserJock: ok, what would you suggest?
[10:22] <LaserJock> heno: you should at least have a stick on the Feisty subforum
[10:22] <LaserJock> *sticky
[10:23] <tormod> heno, I think the "signed-up" testers understand they have to dl the daily, and not sit and wait for herd-2 to show up, or having CD's coming down from the sky :)
[10:23] <tormod> have to understand 
[10:23] <heno> It's not a lack of viewings, which we have hundreds of, or lack of volunteers (45+), but of actual tests
[10:23] <LaserJock> ah
[10:24] <heno> tormod: could well be we need to be more clear, yes
[10:24] <LaserJock> heno: it could be just a matter of time
[10:24] <heno> LaserJock: there is a green notice on http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php :)
[10:24] <heno> yeah, could be
[10:25] <LaserJock> heno: oh, that's cool
[10:25] <heno> people may just need a release or two to get used to how it works
[10:25] <LaserJock> heno: there should be a sticky in the fiesty forum though
[10:25] <LaserJock> heno: well, for instance, I download .isos at work and test at night when I go home
[10:26] <LaserJock> perhaps it's just taking a while for people to test and get reports made up
[10:26] <heno> LaserJock: do you have sticking powers?
[10:26] <LaserJock> heno: no I don't
[10:26] <LaserJock> jdong probably does
[10:26] <heno> there is this one: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=333915
[10:26] <somerville32> heno: Should I post on the forums too? I'm just recording my results in the results matrix.
[10:27] <heno> somerville32: yes, please post there too, to show people how it's done
[10:27] <heno> I've done that as well
[10:27] <heno> ringers :)
[10:30] <LaserJock> heno: also, you might want to give directions for rsync usage
[10:31] <LaserJock> it might help a little for people doing multiple tests
[10:33] <heno> LaserJock: yep, is there a canonical wiki page for that?
[10:33] <somerville32> Can I modify Testing/Short so that the USB storage test includes unmounting it?
[10:59] <keescook> say, has anyone considered adding pango to ia32-libs?
[11:03] <pitti> hi
[11:03] <keescook> hiya
[11:04] <ajmitch> keescook: it should be in ia32-libs-gtk at the moment
[11:04] <keescook> ajmitch: ah-ha!  thank you.
[11:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you want to test -desktop i386.. I'm doing amd64 finally.
[11:05] <keescook> ajmitch: the pango versions seem mismatched...
[11:05] <keescook> /usr/lib32/pango/1.5.0/modules/pango-basic-fc.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[11:05] <keescook>  /usr/lib32/pango/1.6.0/modules/pango-basic-fc.so
[11:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: if not, I'll do it once this run finishes
[11:07] <Mithrandir> keescook: you probably need to preload a hack to work around that, iirc.
[11:08] <keescook> Mithrandir: I haven't dug into it too hard, but I think it's from pango doing explicit dlopens...
[11:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm currently updating my amd64 and ppc images
[11:09] <Mithrandir> keescook: yes, and you need to preload a small hack which tells it to use another config file.
[11:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: my quota/bandwidth is too bad for downloading i386 :(
[11:09] <XBillGates> I masterbate over Vista.... (w00t j00 steve balmer)
[11:09] <keescook> Mithrandir: aaah, okay.  Let me see if a symlink works first.  :)
[11:09] <Mithrandir> pitti: oh well, I'll do i386 too afterwards, then.
[11:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: I can do the amd64 ones if that helps you
[11:09] <Mithrandir> keescook: look at the soffice.bin in the openoffice.org-amd64 source package.
[11:09] <Mithrandir> pitti: more testing is better, unless you'd rather sleep.
[11:10] <keescook> Mithrandir: I have been, that's how I ended up looking at the ia32 libs.  :)
[11:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: doesn't help, my ppc is much slower than my amd64
[11:10] <XBillGates> do you fellas get paid to work on ubuntu?
[11:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: I give it the standard 'wipe disk/German' test that failed the previous time, can't hurt
[11:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[11:10] <Mithrandir> XBillGates: some do, some don't
[11:11] <XBillGates> ah ok.
[11:11] <keescook> Ah-Ha!  This solves my vmplayer busted-fonts problem too.
[11:12] <pitti> sfllaw: do I need to do anything to require QA testing for bug 59946, or is tagging the bug as 'verification-needed' sufficient?
[11:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 59946 in gnome-system-tools "Admin tools require admin group membership" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/59946
[11:14] <XBillGates> m|cr05h4ft 0\/\//\5 j00
[11:16] <Mithrandir> hurrah, install seems to work for me now.
[11:16] <Mithrandir> I need to finish it and reboot, but it looks good so far.
[11:25] <Mithrandir> hurrah, amd64 desktop works for me.
[11:25] <Riddell> somerville32: xubuntu on powerpc works well, except that I can't find a file manager
[11:26] <somerville32> lmao
[11:26] <somerville32> Thunar
[11:26] <somerville32> Riddell: Could you please record your findings at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Xubuntu/Current ? :)
[11:33] <pitti> cjwatson: crap, bloody g-v-m still automounts a new partition despite the gconf keys being off; it doesn't always happen, but it just happened once to me; I'll investigate this soon
[11:34] <marcheu> pitti: hello
[11:34] <pitti> hi marcheu 
[11:35] <pitti> cjwatson: I filed that as bug 78862, FYI
[11:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 78862 in gnome-volume-manager "automatically mounts created file systems on live CD" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78862
[11:36] <marcheu> pitti: hmm, so, I should be around over the next couple of days, will you have a little time ?
[11:36] <pitti> marcheu: oooh, Stephane, nice to meet you
[11:37] <pitti> marcheu: right now is a pretty bad time (herd-2 release pressure), but maybe we can talk tomorrow or Monday?
[11:37] <pitti> marcheu: when would be a suitable time for you?
[11:37] <marcheu> pitti: sure, no problem
[11:37] <marcheu> sorry, I was not aware of your pre-release dates
[11:38] <marcheu> pitti: well ping me, or as pm when you're ok
[11:39] <pitti> marcheu: I will, thank you!
[11:55] <tormod> I installed 20070111.1 Desktop i386 successfully, updated Testing/Current/Ubuntu
[11:56] <Mithrandir> tormod: yay
[11:56] <Mithrandir> I'm just going to finish my install too before blessing those images.
[11:56] <Mithrandir> that is, I'll bless them tomorrow morning, but they're golden.
[11:56] <Mithrandir> since it's midnight here and I'd rather be in bed.
[12:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: I can't seem to get ubiquity offer me autoresize, otherwise amd64/desktop is great now
[12:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: it offered to me.
[12:02] <pitti> I tried with various setups, first swap and then large big ubuntu ext3 partition in an extended partition worked pretty well with edgy
[12:03] <pitti> but I have never really been able to reproduce it reliably
[12:03] <Mithrandir> 'k
[12:03] <Mithrandir> anyway, I'm happy with what we have, so I'll do the final release tomorrow.  It takes about an hour and I'd rather do it when I'm more awake.
[12:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: alright; I'll finish testing ppc now and add results to the wiki
[12:04] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[12:04] <Mithrandir> it's been tested by Riddell but more testing is always welcome.
[12:05] <pitti> oh, he should add his results to the wiki then
[12:12] <somerville32> Riddle: ping