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[12:54] <mhb> Riddell: there was some moving with the Kubuntu testing pages
[12:55] <mhb> Riddell: somebody deleted all my modifications to the page and made only a Dailies only page at Testing/Current/Kubuntu
[12:59] <mhb> Riddell: someone should have informed me that we're switching to a dailies only mode before deleting all my attempts of simplifying the wiki page for new testers
[01:01] <ryanakca> mhb: maybe revert the wiki pages and then modify them yourself?
[01:01] <mhb> ryanakca: I'm not like the others
[01:02] <mhb> ryanakca: we would end up reverting each other's pages
[01:02] <mhb> ryanakca: it's kind of stupid deleting the whole page without notifying the testing team
[01:03] <ryanakca> mhb: well, revert, and place a note saying "Please do not modify unless you are on the testing team"...
[01:03] <mhb> ryanakca: last modifications were from a Canonical guy (which does Ubuntu development) and Hobbsee
[01:03] <ryanakca> there should be a link at the bottom saying who deleted / modified it too, contact them and ask them to ask the team before modifying...
[01:03] <ryanakca> ah
[01:04] <ryanakca> hmm...
[01:04] <ryanakca> no clue :)
[01:04] <firephoto> maybe they're just figuring they'll aggregate everything from irc and forum test reports? it kind of looks that way to me.
[01:04] <mhb> ryanakca: can you do me a favor? If Hobbsee arrives and you're here, tell her about my last few lines, okay?
[01:04] <ryanakca> sure
[01:07] <mhb> firephoto: yes, but there has been added a certain degree of unusability
[01:07] <mhb> firephoto: for example, the daily CD build is not a link, it's just a number
[01:08] <mhb> firephoto: you can't find a download link, it sends you to Testing/Current which also doesn't say anything about links, it links you back to that page
[01:10] <firephoto> yep, bugs in one place, results in another, howto somewhere else.
[01:10] <mhb> firephoto: I haven't found ANY Howto find the download links, though.
[01:11] <firephoto> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/HowTo is all i see for instructions.
[01:11] <mhb> firephoto: hmm...
[01:11] <mhb> firephoto: can you get there from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/Kubuntu ?
[01:11] <mhb> firephoto: with only your mouse
[01:11] <firephoto> no, it links from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[01:12] <mhb> firephoto: oh, you mean the small link at the top?
[01:12] <mhb> it's hardly visible
[01:12] <firephoto> right.
[01:12] <mhb> firephoto: the bold text is the center of my concentration
[01:12] <mhb> and that returns me back. Oh jolly.
[01:13] <firephoto> yep, i clicked around for 5 minutes looking and reading then i saw the howto link.
[01:15] <Riddell> mhb: what had you added?
[01:15] <Riddell> mhb: the reshuffle of pages seems to be part of an attempt to make a new forums testing team
[01:15] <mhb> Riddell: hmm, great
[01:15] <mhb> Riddell: why had nobody informed me about it?
[01:16] <Riddell> mhb: I guess they don't know about kubuntu-testers, it's heno you want
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[01:17] <mhb> Riddell: I don't think Hobbsee (who deleted my stuff and linked to the dailies-only stuff) doesn't know testers
[01:17] <Riddell> oh, I don't know then
[01:18] <mhb> Riddell: it seems like somebody has been put in charge of a project I don't know about.
[01:19] <mhb> Riddell: are testers going to be disbanded?
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[01:20] <mhb> hmm, I need to sleep now, goodnight all
[01:21] <Jucato> g'night mhb!
[01:27] <ryanakca> night mhb
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[01:45] <manchicken> w00t.
[01:45] <manchicken> I got a nice little dark theme going...
[01:45] <manchicken> But it's kinda... dark.
[01:46] <Riddell> mhb: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-January/023105.html
[01:46] <manchicken> This flat SVG icon set is quite nice though.
[01:46] <Riddell> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=201
[01:54] <nixternal> so what is the Herd2 release looking like? late?
[02:03] <Riddell> nixternal: tomorrow european morning
[02:17] <manchicken> mmm... green...
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[03:59] <manchicken> I wonder if the folks over at Linden are going to make .debs for SecondLife.
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[04:53] <jdong> manchicken: sure, they just run alien on their RPM's :D
[04:53] <jdong> *cough* BitTorrent 5.x.x debs *cough* :D
[04:58] <Hobbsee> heya jdong
[04:58] <jdong> hi Hobbsee
[05:09] <manchicken> torrent is great for free software ^_^
[05:09] <manchicken> jdong: The SecondLife client is now Free Software.
[05:16] <jdong> manchicken: what does that have to do with decent packaging?
[05:16] <jdong> ;-)
[05:16] <jdong> Beryl took half a year to get decent packaging
[05:16] <jdong> and BitTorrent IMO is still fairly free software
[05:18] <ajmitch> beryl has decent packaging now?
[05:18] <manchicken> jdong: I want GPL'ed java.
[05:18] <jdong> manchicken: it's soon to happen
[05:19] <jdong> ajmitch: imbrandon uploaded a beryl to feisty :)
[05:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: imbrandon did it
[05:19] <ajmitch> finally..
[05:19] <jdong> ajmitch: I would assume that'd be top-caliber packaging :)
[05:20] <jdong> it needs to be bumped to 0.1.4 though :)
[05:21] <ajmitch> then go ahead & do it
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[05:37] <Hobbsee> manchicken: yay :)
[05:59] <Jucato> hm... would anyo of you know if our Qt in Kubuntu is built with -dlopen-opengl or not?
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[08:22] <mhb> Hobbsee: poke
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[08:30] <Hobbsee> mhb: poke back :)
[08:30] <mhb> Hobbsee: hi
[08:30] <mhb> Hobbsee: did you know about the fact that non-daily testing will happen only at the forums?
=== mhb didn't
[08:31] <mhb> Hobbsee: I've noticed you modified the Testing/Kubuntu/Current , so I thought you did
[08:31] <Hobbsee> mhb: sorry?  non-daily testing?
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[08:32] <mhb> Hobbsee: testing something other than daily CDs
[08:32] <Hobbsee> mhb: ie, what are they testing?
[08:32] <Hobbsee> are you talking about #kubuntu-testers, or what?
=== Hobbsee is lost
[08:33] <mhb> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current/Kubuntu is currently for daily-CD installation testing, or so it seems
[08:35] <Hobbsee> mhb: i'll ask mithrandir / heno why
[08:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: ah, it's moved to the kubuntu section on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Short
[08:37] <mhb> Hobbsee: still only about dailies, or so I understand
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[08:39] <mhb> Hobbsee: no place for dist-upgrade testing, no place for testing the Herd CDs themselves, not only the latest dailies
[08:40] <mhb> Hobbsee: the layout of the page seems to indicate only daily CDs and regressions are tested
[08:41] <mhb> Hobbsee: dist-upgrading needs to be tested too IMO, same as new features
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[08:51] <mhb> Hobbsee: my point is that testing dailies only is not much fun and restricting testers to boring stuff only won't make them very productive
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[08:55] <Hobbsee> mhb: latest daily's become herd cds themselves
[08:55] <Hobbsee> and they dont ask for people to test cds, if they're not releasing a herd release
[08:56] <Hobbsee> true - the forum stuff appears to be testing only to-be releases - which was a canonical job mostly ,before
[08:56] <Hobbsee> mhb: i'm not sure that actual testing of the DE as such on feisty is being asked for at all, or has previously
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[08:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: well, I thought the idea behind k-t was to get people together who will test
[08:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: just about anything they want
[08:57] <mhb> Hobbsee: and that I/we should give them the chance
[08:59] <mhb> Hobbsee: I understand that if you say "it's not being asked for anymore" , you think yourself it's not needed
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[09:00] <mhb> Hobbsee: what should we do with the Kubuntu Testing team then?
[09:00] <mhb> Hobbsee: in the light of the recent events your question remains valid
[09:01] <Hobbsee> mhb: on the contrary.  the cd testing stuff of *ubuntu is separate from the KT - although the KT will presumably test the cds from time to time, as we grow closer to each herd release.  as it currently stands, i suspect they need to be given instructinos on where to test, and how to report their results
=== Hobbsee seems to be getting confused easily today
[09:05] <mhb> Hobbsee: maybe it's time to reconsider the structure
[09:05] <mhb> Hobbsee: forums might be a good idea because it's easier to post there
[09:05] <Hobbsee> mhb: really, KT is whatever you want it to be - and you can ask htem to test specific areas, until those areas get perfect - or go with the mozilla smoke test idea, as done with the cds with the short section, and get a variety of feedback widely
[09:05] <Hobbsee> noo....not the forums...
[09:06] <mhb> Hobbsee: no?
[09:06] <Hobbsee> do you have any idea how many people hate the forums?
[09:06] <mhb> Hobbsee: I don't
=== Hobbsee has various connections, being able to get people on the forums to test specific thigns, also
[09:06] <Hobbsee> also, ubuntuforums tends to be pretty dodgy, unless they're testing something very specific like a cd
[09:07] <Hobbsee> else they just come back wiht some correct feedback, and lots of chatter about other bugs, or sections that i'd specifically not asked for feedback on, etc
[09:07] <Hobbsee> (eg.  do wifi cards work with current kernel - do not give me feedback if you need ndiswrapper to make your card work)
[09:07] <Hobbsee> or if the card works, but not with networkmanager
[09:08] <Hobbsee> a whole heap of the responses i got back fell into those two categories
[09:08] <Hobbsee> so i'm unconvinced that forums are the way to go - at least UF.
[09:08] <Hobbsee> mhb: i think that reconsidering structure, etc is wise.  giving people a concrete plan of what we want is also hlepful
[09:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: probably, the wide testing (ie, testing kdesu works, screensavers, etc) would be done when we get a new release of KDE
[09:10] <Hobbsee> if they're running feisty, they're probably reporting bugsd anyway, on what they randomly find is wrong.
[09:10] <Hobbsee> i'd suggest that the testers would apply to situations like "we've done a whole lot of work on this feature, can you test it, and see how it works, fi there are any regressions"
=== Hobbsee wonders if she's making any sense here, or just rambling
[09:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'm listening
[09:11] <Hobbsee> mmm...drat.  i wasnt going to send that money there yet
=== Hobbsee ntoes that doing other things while working on banking stuff is a bad idea
[09:11] <mhb> Hobbsee: sorry .o)
[09:11] <Hobbsee> it's fine :)
[09:12] <Hobbsee> it's been happening for a while - otn just from irc
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[09:13] <Hobbsee> mhb: do you think any of that is vaguely sensible idea?
[09:13] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes
[09:13] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: also wants to be involved
[09:13] <Hobbsee> (aiee, how'd my credit card get that high?)
[09:14] <mhb> the biggest pain of all for a hypothetical tester was editing a wiki, anyway
[09:14] <Hobbsee> if it's well formatted, it shouldnt be hard
[09:14] <Hobbsee> and they dont need extra logins, etc
[09:14] <Hobbsee> wiki formatting is awful, though.  asking testers to do that would be very mean :P
=== Hobbsee pays the credit card, then looks forward to payday.
[09:17] <mhb> Hobbsee: so we'd do a page where the current stuff that needs to be tested is located?
[09:17] <Hobbsee> mhb: ie;
[09:17] <Hobbsee> ATTENTION TESTERS
[09:17] <Hobbsee> this stuff needs testing:  foo bar blah bling
[09:17] <Hobbsee> RESULTS:
[09:18] <Hobbsee> [table with results, which people can write in] 
[09:18] <Hobbsee> {end of page}
[09:18] <Hobbsee> ?
[09:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: yes, something like that
[09:18] <mhb> Hobbsee: would that be effective?
[09:18] <Hobbsee> mhb: why dont you use the channel topic of KT for that?
[09:19] <Hobbsee> i'd think so - but i'd definetly use the #KT channel, with a link to the wiki page
[09:19] <Hobbsee> it's useful to have it on the results page for reference, so people can wrok on one page - and test offline, if htey wish
[09:20] <Hobbsee> ie, because people tend not to subscribe to wiki pages, as there are so many changes
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[09:35] <mhb> Hobbsee: you're probably right
[09:36] <mhb> Hobbsee: thanks for the comments and all
[09:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: not a problem :)  anytime :)
[09:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: i would suggest picking ryanakca's brain on this stuff too, and i'm happy to work with you
[09:38] <mhb> Hobbsee: surely I will
[09:38] <Hobbsee> :)
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[10:30] <elcuco> can anyone help me confrim a bug 78856?
[10:30] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78856 in kdebase "kdesktop in ltr in hebrew" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78856
[10:30] <elcuco> basically i would like you to run "killall kdesktop, strace -f -eopen -o 1.txt kdesktop", and then see it kdelibs.mo is loaded by kdestop (search for it in 1.txt)
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[12:45] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: no picking my brain!
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[01:08] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: awww...but...
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[01:19] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: but brain picking is such fun!
=== Hobbsee mmm...brains...
[01:20] <Riddell> ryanakca: I thought of some other python tasks to be done
[01:20] <Riddell> ryanakca: porting onboard on screen keyboard to qt 4 and implementing ubiquity-slideshow
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[01:36] <mhb> hi
[01:36] <mhb> I'm back
[01:37] <Mez> was it someone in here who had issues with katapult ?
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[02:19] <mhb> elcuco: you could have asked at #kubuntu-testers
[02:22] <mhb> elcuco: but anyway, I've tried to reproduce it and yes, it doesn't seem to load some translations (nor kdelibs.mo)
[02:22] <mhb> elcuco: this probably explains why you get "Copy" and "Paste" when you right click on an icon, even though those lines are surely translated
[02:27] <mhb> elcuco: if you'd be so kind please check if there isn't a duplicate of that bug. Check my latest comment for a clue how the duplicate may be called.
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[02:35] <mhb> Riddell: will KDE 3.5.6 get into Feisty?
[02:35] <Riddell> mhb: I expect so
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[02:36] <mhb> Riddell: I intend to fix bug 78318 and bug 78856 , they are most probably related, but it's probably wiser to wait with it until 3.5.6, right?
[02:36] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78318 in kdebase "Screensaver unlock dialog ignores translation" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78318
[02:36] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78856 in kdebase "kdesktop in ltr in hebrew" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78856
[02:36] <elcuco> mhb: hi, thanks for the suggestion
[02:37] <Riddell> mhb: waiting won't help
[02:38] <elcuco> mhb: are you martin?
[02:38] <mhb> elcuco: Martin Bhm
[02:39] <mhb> Riddell: I'll do it right away then. Thanks for advice.
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[02:56] <pinheiro> seele: were is the meeting?
[02:56] <Riddell> meeting?
[02:56] <pinheiro> hci
[02:56] <pinheiro> hia Riddell
[02:56] <seele> pinheiro: dunno lemme find out
[02:56] <Riddell> hola
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[02:56] <seele> pinheiro: #kde-hci
[02:56] <pinheiro> k
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[03:04] <seaLne> hmm i was about to do a dist-upgrade on feisty then noticed kde was going to be removed
[03:11] <seaLne> i something between kubuntu and ubuntu desktops conflicting now?
[03:12] <sebas> You mean other than stupid user fighting about which is better, KDE or GNOME?
[03:13] <Jucato> heh :)
[03:13] <seaLne> i mean if i select install kubuntu-desktop in adept, which it wanted to remove it then says it is going to delete ubuntu-desktop and its stuff
=== sebas doesn't know
[03:13] <apokryphos> sounds like a conflict; happens a few times in the development release
[03:13] <apokryphos> shouldn't happen in final
[03:14] <seaLne> yeah, more a warning to any other feisty users here to pay attention :)
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[03:22] <Riddell> seaLne: seems python transition is going to be the fun for the next week
[03:24] <seaLne> i was wondering if it was it
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[04:10] <bddebian> Heya
[04:10] <Jucato> hi bddebian!
[04:11] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[04:11] <lotusleaf> Kubuntu = divine
[04:12] <apokryphos> hehe
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[04:42] <n8k99> is there an irc channel for feisty?
[04:43] <lotusleaf> n8k99: #ubuntu+1
[04:43] <lotusleaf> yw in advance ;)
[04:43] <n8k99> thanks!
[04:44] <Jucato> lol
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[04:58] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Hello
[04:58] <DaSkreech> oh hi pinheiro As well :)
[04:59] <kwwii> howdy DaSkreech
[05:00] <DaSkreech> kwwii: Just found an article I thought you might find interesting
[05:00] <DaSkreech> Do you know about haiku?
[05:02] <kwwii> DaSkreech: well, I know what haiku is in the classical sense
[05:02] <kwwii> DaSkreech: url?
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[05:07] <DaSkreech> http://haiku-os.org/node/280
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[05:15] <DaSkreech> kwwii: It's an open source BeOS as a quick history
[05:16] <kwwii> wow, cool
[05:16] <kwwii> I like the cartoonish icons
[05:16] <Jucato> O.o
[05:22] <kwwii> whoever is making those is doing a great job
[05:27] <DaSkreech> stippi
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[05:36] <DaSkreech> It's looking pretty good though and the technical stuff for the SVG things are pretty good
[05:42] <Lure> Riddell: daily 0111 is Herd2?
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[06:23] <Lure> Riddell: Herd2 issue - bug 78961
[06:23] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78961 in ubiquity "Kubuntu Herd2: crash when starting partitioner" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78961
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[07:40] <Lure> nixternal, Riddell: I think "UI Language Selector" section should be removed from announcement part as it is not in Herd2...
[07:41] <nixternal> interesting
[07:42] <nixternal> removed. thanks Lure
[07:43] <Lure> nixternal: you can probably just move it to Herd3 as I am sure Riddell will re-do that part
[07:43] <nixternal> thats what i am doing now
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[08:03] <glatzor> manchicken: hi
[08:03] <glatzor> manchicken: Do you want to create the QT frontend of software-properties?
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[08:41] <DaSkreech> Who would I have to speak to in order to get to the Hardware database at canonical?
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[08:50] <manchicken> glatzor: If you want to, I don't mind.
[08:50] <manchicken> glatzor: I have no problem avoiding Python ^_^
[08:52] <gnomefreak> right now is best time to avoid python ;)
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[08:56] <manchicken> C++ isn't my favorite language, but with Qt making it so much nicer, C++/Qt is quite nice.
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[09:57] <glatzor> manchicken: pyqt is also quite nice
[09:58] <manchicken> glatzor: Yeah, but I prefer C++/Qt ^_^
[09:59] <glatzor> manchicken: i have put the new features on hold and currently I am writing on a complete separation of the user interface and the sources handling
[09:59] <manchicken> Groovy.
[09:59] <glatzor> manchicken: you want to rewrite it using c++ or add a pyqt frontend?
[10:00] <manchicken> I think it should be retrofitted with pyqt.
[10:00] <glatzor> I suggested to write it desktop neutral at UDS Paris, but Kubuntu rejected.
[10:00] <manchicken> There's already a fair amount of logic in Py that's not Qt.
[10:00] <glatzor> retrofitted?
[10:00] <manchicken> Yeah.
[10:00] <manchicken> The Glade/GTK implementation is rather embedded.
[10:00] <glatzor> I am not familiar with this term :)
[10:00] <manchicken> The UI should be separated from the business logic.
[10:01] <glatzor> manchicken: do you you know if adpet takes /etc/apt.sources.d into account?
[10:02] <manchicken> I don't know.
[10:02] <manchicken> I wouldn't really be surprised either way.
[10:03] <glatzor> If yes, the support should be added to adpet, software-properties could also be easily limited to a single config file
[10:04] <glatzor> manchicken: I hope that the separation will be finished by the end of next week
[10:04] <fdoving> wouldn't it be preferable for ubuntu and kubuntu to use the same sources.* ?
[10:04] <manchicken> Groovy.
[10:04] <manchicken> They do.'
[10:05] <fdoving> then adept must take sources.d/ into account.
[10:05] <fdoving> (don't they all use libapt/libept?)
[10:08] <manchicken> Have you seen Adept's code?
[10:09] <fdoving> some of it.
[10:11] <fdoving> it builddepends on libapt-front-dev, that's why i suspect it uses whatever sources.* the other frontends use.
[10:14] <ryanakca> Riddell: porting the on screen keyboard to qt4... never used Qt... and I presume it's in GTK+ atm? ubiquity-slideshow, what is that?
[10:19] <glatzor> fdoving: libept author's goal was to do apt in the right way. I think that he didn't like the concept of splitting configuration files
[10:21] <glatzor> manchicken: do you want to software-properties-kde be instant or explicit apply?
[10:22] <glatzor> manchicken: currently every changes gets directly written to the config files.
[10:23] <glatzor> manchicken: will it be part of kcontrol? I think kcontrol uses cancel-ok, right?
[10:24] <glatzor> sorry, but I haven't used KDE for years :)
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[11:05] <nixternal> http://www.vandenoever.info/misc/keyes/
[11:05] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
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[11:05] <nixternal> sebas: ^^ nice eyes :)
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[11:30] <Lure> nixternal: lol
[11:44] <Riddell> ryanakca: qt is what KDE uses.  ubiquity-slideshow has a spec
[11:45] <ryanakca> Riddell: yeah, know that... never used Qt in programming... have a guide or something for porting the keyboard for <bleep> to Qt4?
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[11:48] <ryanakca> found it :)